Gauging the value of stars on the trade block makes for popular sport among MLBTR readers. Quite often, we’re asked whether a given player could command, say, a “top 100 pitching prospect.” Now, we seem to have a clear test case, as the Orioles are reportedly trying to land just such a player — a top-end pitching prospect, that is — in talks involving star infielder Manny Machado.
It’s nothing new to suggest that the Baltimore organization would like to convert Machado into a talented young hurler, of course. The reported aim over the winter was to get two such arms in exchange for a single season of Machado. When that failed to materialize, the O’s instead held him in hopes of contending. Now, as the team pursues its fallback plan of a mid-season sell-off, it has continued to try to pry loose pitching talent as the headlining element of a return for Machado.
The most recent reports indicate that the O’s are still shooting for the moon. With several weeks left until the trade deadline, of course, that’s arguably just what they ought to be doing. Still, the odds seem long that the club’s most optimistic wishes will be fulfilled.
Baltimore will no doubt drive a particularly hard bargain with the Yankees, who stand as recent entrants to the Machado derby. The Orioles are willing to deal their best player to their division rivals, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com (via Twitter), but only if they score pitching prospect Justus Sheffield. He’s an unsurprising target, but that appears to be rather a steep ask given the 22-year-old’s pedigree and performance this year. The southpaw entered the year rated as one of the game’s fifty or so best prospects and has mowed down hitters at both the Double-A and Triple-A levels, turning in 85 innings of 2.44 ERA ball with 10.1 K/9 against 4.0 BB/9.
Given the Yanks’ slate of needs, both now and in the near future, sending Sheffield out for Machado wouldn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense. Morosi does add on Twitter that the club’s “need for Machado increases greatly if they trade Miguel Andujar for a controllable pitcher,” but that concept seems to fold in quite a notable bit of speculation — namely, that the team is considering parting with the talented Andujar, who is already a useful (albeit still-raw) MLB player. Perhaps there are some low-likelihood scenarios where Yankees GM Brian Cashman manages such a multi-part balancing act, but that doesn’t make the concept of Sheffield-for-Machado any more facially reasonable as a value proposition.
It doesn’t seem that the Orioles are holding only the Yanks’ feet to the fire, however. Baltimore is also trying to secure a top young arm from the Indians, Morosi also tweets. The ask, in that case, is for either Triston McKenzie or Shane Bieber. Neither pitcher figures to be parted with lightly, particularly for a rental piece.
McKenzie graded as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball entering the year and has spun 38 1/3 innings of 3.05 ERA ball in his first attempt at the Double-A level. He’s not getting quite as many strikeouts as in prior years, with 7.5 per nine, but is allowing less than a batter per inning to get aboard. As for Bieber, he has never enjoyed the hype of McKenzie (to say nothing of the pop star who shares his last name). But he’s turning plenty of heads now. The 23-year-old owns a 3.47 ERA with 8.9 K/9 and 1.5 BB/9 through his first 36 1/3 MLB frames.
Needless to say, it’s particularly difficult to imagine the Cleveland organization giving up a player who is currently making a significant contribution in the majors. The same holds for the Brewers, who face a tight divisional race and have long been cited as a potential buyer of pitching.
In talks with Milwaukee, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported recently (subscription link), the O’s have tried with little success to get the Brewers to offer up Corbin Burnes. He, too, is a top-100 prospect. Despite middling results at Triple-A, he sported solid K/BB numbers there and just turned in a memorable MLB debut in a multi-inning relief capacity.
It came as some surprise, then, when Rosenthal’s colleague Jim Bowden tweeted today that the Brewers “have discussed [a] package” of not only Burnes, but also Keon Broxton and Orlando Arcia, as a potential means of landing Machado. Perhaps there’s more to this concept than is evident from that single tweet, but it seems questionable that the Milwaukee organization would even contemplate such an arrangement. Indeed, Jon Heyman of Fancred reports on Twitter that there’s “no way” of the O’s landing that particular haul for Machado.
Certainly, it’s understandable that the O’s are pushing to get a foundational arm as they bid adieu to a franchise cornerstone. And with so many contending clubs showing serious interest — the Dodgers, Diamondbacks, and Phillies are among the others tied to Machado in recent weeks — it’s still possible that there’ll be a surprising return. While plenty of other teams figure to function as sellers, after all, none have anything close to a rental player of Machado’s caliber on offer.
That said, the odds are decidedly against the Orioles convincing a contender to give up a quality, near-to-the-majors starter. Such players are not only prized for their long-term value — the tantalizing possibility of quality output at a bargain price for multiple seasons — but also their potential near-term impact. Some of the hurlers noted above have already or could soon reach the majors. And most of the top-rated pre-MLB hurlers could at least be significant staff members at some point in the 2019 season. Perhaps there’s some room for creativity, potentially including package arrangements and/or a willingness to pay down salary, to facilitate the acquisition of the type of asset the Orioles seek. But getting something done is going to require the exploration of quite a few possibilities and plenty of negotiation, which perhaps more than anything explains the volume of reporting we’ve seen of late on conceivable Machado trade permutations.
yanks02026
I would 100% trade Sheffield for machado. But try to add more players and get Britton back also
KnicksFanCavsFan
We would need to add a lot more just to get Machado. Not sure If Sheffield could even be the centerpiece part of the overall deal. My guess would be Sheffield, Frazier and a 3rd pitcher like Loaisiga and maybe they might want some lower minors guys. Maybe those 3 plus Drury might get both Manny and Britton? Either way, I’d rather pass on both guys and focus on starting pitching.
Bocephus
Will Yankees fans stop adding Drury to proposals because he has no value. Same goes with the couple of jokers suggesting Bird be a centerpiece for something.
ThePriceWasRight
Sheffield and Frazier alone would be enough tongrt machado for 3 months.
Polish Hammer
Way too much, those guys were for 2.5 years of a rental in Andrew Miller.
Nick
The idea that Drury and Bird have NO value is clownish. Neither guy is going to be the centerpiece of a deal, but as the 3rd or 4th piece they absolutely do have value.
Free Clay Zavada
But what use do the Orioles have for majors-ready players when it’s clear they’re gonna suck for at least four more years? They want high upside guys far from the majors.
Bocephus
“The idea that Drury and Bird have no value is clownish” Yea a utility player with migraine issues that effect his vision and an anemic hitter who can’t stay off the DL, huge gets. Come-On-Man
vmmercan 2
lol for a rental? On what planet?
Nick
He’s a rental. I’d be surprised if the O’s got anywhere near that much. Based on the reports it sounds like they’re pushing as a young top pitching prospect as the centerpiece with other pieces filling in around. You’re talking about trading 2 top 100 pitchers and a guy who would be a top 100 position player if he was eligible. Way too much.
dave1775
There is difference making starter pay attention
xabial
Lol I’m glad you guys don’t run the team.
Stop overpaying for rentals, that don’t address significant weaknesses (starting pitching)
I think the Orioles will get a “Yu Darvish” package, with one top-100 prospect, and 3 other quality prospects.
toptekjon
Thank you. Some rare common sense.
PopeMarley
Maybe at the most a JD package.
toptekjon
That’s insane. Machado is not needed and he’s a rental only. If you’re desperate, you pull the trigger. Yankees are not even close to desperate at SS or 3B. Sheffield could be a big rotation piece for the Yankees for years to come. No way you trade him for 2 months of a player you don’t need.
mrnatewalter
Again, this depends on what they have to give up a starter. If they want a good, controllable starter who will actually help them come playoffs, they’ll probably need a new 3B.
Old User Name
Then they can stay internal with Drury or trade for Moose.
mrnatewalter
You really want Brandon Drury playing 3B for a contending team?
stymeedone
What’s wrong with Andujar playing 3B for a contending team?
mrnatewalter
I guess it wasn’t clear: If they want a good, controllable starter who’ll help them in the playoffs, Andujar is almost guaranteed to be in the package. Thus, they’ll need a new 3B.
ethan 3
But they already have someone at 3b
DG32
Why? So they can ruin them and make them below average pitchers before they trade them away so they can become stars?
Bryzzo2016
Cue Jake Arrietta
bigdaddyhacks
He may not get traded. The Os should have dealt him last year. Would have got more for him.
mstrchef13
Must be great to have such brilliant hindsight. I bet you could tell me the numbers I should have played in yesterday’s lottery as well.
halos101
pretty sure a lot of people saw this situation with the orioles coming and said they should’ve trade manny and britton last year.
dimitrios in la
I very much think the Orioles can get a very nice haul for Manny Machado. The truth is that he could be very impactful for several of the teams— Yankees, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Brewers, Cubs—each of which is involved in a very tight divisional race. Put another way: none of these teams would be pleased seeing him go to their division rival. This bodes well for the Orioles — provided they don’t make their demands too high in a marketplace that is proving much shrewder than in years past.
Ven6
This.
I thought Mr Todd’s article was very biased.
It stresses the value of prospects to contenders and never mentions the flip-side: a legitimate immediate significant lineup upgrade as the contender PURSUES A CHAMPIONSHIP.
That’s the point of it all. Something MLBTRs often forgets as it hypes prospects.
saavedra
I couldn’t agree more. if the Cubs didn’t trade for Chapman, the Indians didn’t trade for Miller, the 2016 WS is a whole different story. Of course, the media only talks about Gleyber and Frazier, but I do think the price was worth it. I still think that the dodgers would have won the 2017 WS if they traded Verdugo for Hand.
okbud
Verdugo won’t play much with LA so it makes since
RedRooster
What the Dodgers should have done was claim Justin Verlander on August waivers then offer the Tigers nothing for him. I doubt the Tigers would have just let him go on waivers and even if they wanted to I doubt Verlander would have approved it. No Verlander and the Astros don’t make it to the World Series. Yankees would have been an easier opponent.
christo14
Hindsight is 20/20 plus Houston had waiver precedence over the Dodgers since they are in the AL with Detroit. So you have no idea what you are talking about.
juicemane
Well when Puig is gone next year, and Kemp…
christo14
Nevermind I am dumb. He cleared waivers. Still hindsight is 20/20.
RedRooster
If Houston had claimed Verlander then there would have been zero downside to claiming him for the Dodgers. And not hindsight considering Verlander was already a proven big-game pitcher before last postseason. Dodgers (and any contender really) had a lot to gain by ensuring that they wouldn’t have to face him in October).
Jeff Todd
“Biased” seems an odd way to describe an apparent difference of viewpoint on this particular topic. And I did mention the flip side — I noted that Machado is a unique talent on this market — but did not think it necessary to belabor a point (Machado is outstanding) with which everyone is well-acquainted.
In any event, I obviously understand that prospects must at times be sacrificed to improve a roster. And I really don’t hold (and did not mean to present) a general viewpoint that it is never reasonable to give up lots of potential future value for immediate improvements. I was simply explaining why it’s particularly difficult for teams to give up talented pitchers who are on the cusp of the majors, as they often are potential contributors in the immediate or near future.
As for Machado, specifically, the Orioles might well gin up enough of a bidding war to get what they are after. I noted as much. And I said there’s no reason not to try. I just gave my perspective on the difficulties of making that happen with a rental player, particularly under some of the specific scenarios being trotted out right now.
One key point is that, if you have a super valuable pitching prospect, you can also conceivably use that player as a key piece to land another, more controllable player to help you pursue a championship. It always depends upon market specifics, but that’d generally be the preferred option, surely.
majorflaw
“I thought Mr Todd’s article was very biased. It stresses the value of prospects and never mentions the flip-side: a legitimate immediate significant lineup upgrade as the contender PURSUES A CHAMPIONSHIP.”
Perhaps that because the point you raise is so obvious to all involved that it goes without saying? “Mr.” Jeff Todd is a number of things but biased is not one of them. Silly accusation.
dimitrios in la
Majorflaw, perhaps a dose of civility would be helpful here.
majorflaw
“MajorFlaw, perhaps a dose of civility would be helpful here.”
You must be new.
its_happening
You must be flawed
majorflaw
“You must be flawed.”
Bet you stayed up all night thinking of that one.
Nick
I don’t think it is a matter of being biased as much as it is understanding how teams value prospects in the modern game.
Djones246890
The chance that Machado will put a team over-the-top, and win them a World Series, isn’t all that great. Will he help? Of course. However, pitching is of much greater importance when it comes to winning a World Series. I see where you’re coming from, but if I’m any of those teams, I’d much rather acquire a solid 1 or 2 starter, or really good bullpen help, as opposed to giving up a huge haul for a few months of Machado — if my goal is to win the World Series, this year. Once playoff time rolls around, it’s all about pitching and defense.
walls17
barstool reporter says that a trade with nyy is close
Eric Hubbs
@BarstoolHubbs
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I would say more likely than not the Yankees are landing Machado. I don’t know if it’s today but MY GUY has told me it’s close. Don’t know package
Mattimeo09
Bull Plop. Why would the Yanks give up quality starting pitching depth when that is/will be their greatest area of concern not only this year but the coming years as well?
tonypro7
Book it Dan-O. Once his “GUY” says it’s done, it’s done. I’m all Yankees fans minds this is the deal…. 4 team trade: the Yankees get Machado, Trout and Harper. The O’s, Angels and Nats take the Yankees 47th thru 49th ranked prospects who are currently at low A level. That’s fair to all Yankee fans.
walls17
for the record, this is the same reporter who had stanton to the yankees days before anyone else did
mikeyst13
Stanton to the Yankees was predicted by everyone long before it actually happened. Trade deadline deals are a little more tricky. Just because the Yanks feel like they are close to a deal (if it is inside info hinting that they feel that way) it doesn’t mean someone else won’t sweep in with a better offer.
Bocephus
No, that was the Dodgers
yanks02026
Stanton to the yankees was barely being talked about happening.
jbaker3170
Ok there Chief
coocoo20
I wouldn’t give too much for machado he’s purely a rental Why would you trade Sheffield plus. Manny will be a free agent. If we don’t get him now. We may get him in the off season
dimitrios in la
I think the Yanks also would want to not just RENT him but TRY him out and get a more intimate sense of how he plays in NY (and perhaps have him acclimate to NY), and thus whether they want to offer him something long term. In that way, this deal has a certain value beyond just the numbers.
jg_916
ZERO chance the Yankees trade Sheffield, a likely middle of the rotation starter controllable for up to seven seasons, for thee months of Machado—less than zero.
Let’s start with the fact Machado “prefers” to play SS. And while he certainly is a better hitter than current Yankees SS Gregarious, Didi is the superior defender. Then there’s Andujar at third, who is having a potential ROY season.
Oh, and Machado is a right handed hitter and the Yanks need the better balance a lefty would provide.
Those in Baltimore can dream about landing blue chip prospects in a trade but frankly, whoever is running the team is an idiot. The time to get a franchise altering package of talent the O’s seem utterly unable to find and develop was LAST YEAR at this time.
But the few O’s fans left can always dream and remember the long gone glory days of Palmer, the Robinsons, Murray and Ripken.
ThePriceWasRight
of they move andujar to 1b to platoon with bird.
Begamin
this isnt MLB the Show
Begamin
I agree with you here. If i am correct, Machado stated that if he was traded to a team and the team that traded for him wanted him to play third, he would have no chance but to play third. That said, come the offseason he will shop himself as a SS. So what this means is if the Yankees trade for Machado to play 3B, then your potential AL ROY is out of a job and then if you resign him in the offseason, then Didi is out of a job. So you lose big prospects to get him for 2 months and then you lose Andujar or Didi forever to keep him around. It just doesnt seem worth it
Steven Chinwood
So you’re saying having one of the 10 best players in MLB isn’t worth it. If Manny wanted to sign in the winter with NY then either Gregorius or Andujar would be gone in a NY minute.
Begamin
Your arguments are always so disingenuous. You do realize to youd have to pay for that top 10 guy who might demand upwards of 350M? Why do that when you need to spend the money on SP with the offense being the best in the league, and two stars that you can control for much longer and cheaper? So no, the prospect loss paired with the potential loss of production from two players and good clubhouse presences for 350+M for a top 10 player that doesnt play a position the Yankees need (s t a r t i n g p i t c h i n g) is not worth it.
Steven Chinwood
“Your arguments are always so disingenuous” How in the hell is my argument that when I’m not being any of the meanings to that word. I wasn’t talking about trading any prospects this season. What in the world do you know about those two players or any player for that matter being “good clubhouse presences” “loss of production from two players” never did I say to get rid of both Andujar and Gregorius but in fact posted “either Gregorius or Andujar” meaning of course ONE, so your loss of production point is null. Bottom line I was most certainly speaking of “this winter” and doesn’t preclude them from trading for pitching at the deadline.
MahatmaGagne
What do you think of a Buehler, Muncy to Yanks for Andujar, Betances & Sheffield trade? We get 2B in Andujar, 8th inn specialist for pen & solid P prospect in Sheff. Yanks get cost/cont SP, 1B to pair w/Bird & then can go get rentals Machado/Britton. Thoughts?
#Dodgers infield will be set with Turner, Taylor, Andujar & Bellinger….OF Toles, Kemp, Puig/Joc….Bullpen for playoffs would have Maeda, Betances, Kenley, Alexander as our left specialist. Seems like a win win for both teams. Put Forsythe out to pasture.
Yanks get great cost controlled SP Buehler + great insurance at 1B with Muncy to pair with Bird, then they can go get rentals Machado/Britton (two prospects). So essentially losing Sheffield, Andujar plus 2 prospects for Buehler, Muncy, Machado, Britton…..
MahatmaGagne
Dodgers still have Kersh, Stripling, Wood, Hill, Maeda + Ferguson, Urias, Ryu & Font as SP
I would trade Walker Buehler & Max Muncy for Miguel Andujar, Delin Betances and Justus Sheffield……Yankees need a left handed bat in Muncy…..plus they can go trade for Machado and Britton
Yanks will end up paying more for a quality SP with Sheffield and Andujar being gone in that deal alone
Dodgerblog
What the hell is wrong with you man!
mrnatewalter
Zero chance the Yankees trade Sheffield.
Zero chance the Yankees trade Andujar.
Zero chance the Yankees trade Torres.
Zero chance the Yankees trade Frazier.
I’m curious, who exactly DO the Yankees trade? And do you actually think the Yankees land anyone significant with them?
xabial
He is 100% right about Gleyber Torres.
Asked if he’d be willing to trade the 21-year-old rookie, who is already performing like a star and could finish as the AL Rookie of the Year, in exchange for an elite starting pitcher, Cashman:
“C’mon, I have to walk around this city.”
nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sports-…
RedRooster
Jed Hoyer also has to walk around Chicago.
mrnatewalter
I actually thought about leaving the Torres line off. But it more or less made my point: Yankee fans want significant upgrades, but don’t want to give up anyone of worth.
They won’t acquire team-controlled players, or even elite rentals, unless they part with top young talent.
RedRooster
They still have Florial and Abreu to trade. But it’s gonna be hard for the Yankees to acquire anyone who isn’t a rental if they won’t trade the guys you mentioned.
Cubbie Steve
Does anyone remember TINSTAPP?
Even kids close to the majors are no sure thing. Even kids with a year in the majors. As a Cubs fan, I clearly remember Mark Prior.
They’re better off to get a position player that is MLB ready or near and a few low A lottery ticket arms.
But hey, I’m not a GM. But I have seen how the Cubs and Astros did it…and how quickly pitching fails you (Orioles own Gausman and Bundy) or how volatile it is (Mets).
Bocephus
Yea the Cubs and Astros absolutely tanked for how many seasons?
stymeedone
Hmm, the Cubs alone went the high draft pick
Route for over 100 years. Sure glad they finally had success at it. I guess if it works every hundred years, it must be the way to go.
Cardinals17
Don’t the Cardinals have two top 100 pitching prospects for Machado?? Gomber and Helsey’s names have been brought up as trade bate. Let Machado be welcome by 40,000 fans in a standing ovation every time he bats just like they did for Mark McGwire and Matt Holliday. Then, be the highest bidder by a wide margin over any other teams offer for 2019. Let this billion of dollars TV contract money work for something else than Ballpark Village!!!
kbarr888
Wisler…???
ROFL…..He’s terrible
kbarr888
You mentioned a couple names that should be attractive to the Orioles…….
But the real problem doesn’t rest with the Orioles.
1. There’s just no way that Mo has the balls to pull off a deal like that. He’ll make some sort of a lukewarm offer so he can say that he tried…. but he just won’t do it.
2. Adding Machado doesn’t really help the Cardinals because they need so much more than a single player. They have a lot of issues to deal with including the fact that there just isn’t a good vibe going on in The Dugout. Matheny is one of the most inept managers in Major League Baseball.
Mabry is one of the least talented hitting instructors in Major League Baseball.
DeWitt is one of the cheapest and greediest owners in Major League Baseball.
The Cardinals are more likely to trade valuable assets for Mike Moustakas ……who won’t really help them at all.
xabial
This is why people think Machado will end up not getting traded, and ultimately decline QO.
Sounds like unreasonable demands; this because Manny had 2 HR’s yesterday, and each HR tied the game in O’s 6-5 win?
vmmercan 2
Gosh, if only the Orioles could land a guy like Sheffield in a deal involving Machado and the Yankees could also get pitching in the same deal…Like expanding the deal? Wait, that never happens. Definitely not for the Yankees, and definitely not recently at a deadline or anything.
bravesandcrewfan
Uhh burnes, Broxton, AND Arcia? BS Stearns is too smart for that. If the crew offered that we’d be getting gausman or bundy too.
Johhos
No.. Gausman and/or Bundy cost you more. I might include Britton in that deal , though.
RedRooster
For real. Why does O’s fans think Kevin Gausman has any trade value at all?
jbigz12
Maybe because he’s controllable for 3 more years and the best SP available is J.A. Happ or Cole Hamels. Let’s not act like the two of those guys are so vastly superior to Kevin Gausman. How much value do you think Tyson Ross has? Less than Gausman.
RedRooster
4.11 ERA on the year (just a tick below his career average). He’s a #5 starter.
jbigz12
Tell me is hamels any better at this point? Tyson Ross? Nope. There’s any number of teams who’d like to get their hands on Gausman and work out the kinks. Orioles don’t have the most pitcher friendly park or pitching development. Gausman certainly has more upside than any of those rental starters and is pretty damn close to their production as is.
RedRooster
I’d rather have Ross or Hamels than Gausman if I needed a pitcher to start for me tonight. Only thing Gausman has that they don’t have is cheap club control.
jbigz12
You just said it all right there. Their numbers are so close it doesn’t really matter. If you’re going to slam Gausman and say he’s a #5 well then so are those 2. Only they’re on the downside of their careers and come with zero or unaffordable control. Cant have it both ways.
mrnatewalter
A 4.11 ERA would be the #3 in New York right now.
RedRooster
I mean, Walker Lockett also comes with cheap club control. Doesn’t mean that cheap club control is worth much.
jbigz12
You’re only losing Burnes and Arcia in that trade. Broxton is no more than a fourth outfielder. Those K problems are ridiculous. I’d be more than happy to ship a couple relievers over to grab that package though. (Britton, Brach) Though id prefer we got prospects instead of 2 guys with years of MLB service time. Not complaining in a deal like that it’d be a big W for Baltimore but we shouldn’t be targeting guys like that. Makes me think Angelos has the thought that this is going to be a quick turnaround. Which is….uhhhh unlikely.
augold5
“Only”… thats still a ton for a rental
Backatitagain
Could see the Braves sending a top 100 pitching prospect to Maryland for Machado if Os picked up second half salary. Either Ian Anderson, Joey Wentz, Tooki Toussaint, or Max Fried.
Backatitagain
Would send Wisler also in the deal.
realgone2
So how will the orioles screw this up?
Cam
Remember when people were foolishly saying that the Orioles would get more during the year than they would in the offseason? Wrong. In fact, right now they are struggling to get half of what they asked for in the offseason.
Control matters, and as that control disappears, so does value.
realgone2
Should have traded him this time last year
lewisbrinsonisgod
I logged into an account I haven’t used in a year by retrieving a password that I had forgotten just so I can say Jim Bowden is a big dummy.
Cheers!
sufferforsnakes
With that screen name, I can understand why you haven’t used it.
lewisbrinsonisgod
Haha. Let’s just say that I’m very comfortable with how the Lewis Brinson/Milwaukee relationship turned out
MilTown8888
The demands are ridiculous, and a Machado rental is losing value every day.
Like Cozart and Cain of 2017, Machado will end the season with the team he started it with because their teams botched the opportunity for a trade by asking too much. Baltimore will watch him walk as a free agent with nothing to show for it except a piddly compensation pick.
its_happening
Cain wasn’t traded because KC was sitting 2 games back of Cleveland and holding the final WC spot as of August 1st. Royals fans would have been livid if the franchise sold off players while holding a playoff spot at the deadline.
RedRooster
Even if the Royals had managed to pick up the 2nd Wild Card spot they wouldn’t have made it past the Yankees.
stevewpants
With that attitude why even play the games? You never know what can happen in the play-in game or playoffs.
MilTown8888
You’re right, I forgot about that.
eze01
Why are they so focused on pitching? They will be rebuilding, they should focus on getting the best prospects they can whether its pitching or position players
Begamin
right? and theyre asking for almost MLB ready pitching in Sheffield as if the Orioles are planning on being division threats in the next couple years
kbarr888
Exactly. They should be working towards a complete rebuild. They have so many old players and bad contracts that they should dump everything they have that’s dead weight and work from scratch.
The first one to go should be Angelo’s cuz he’s destroying that team for this pig-headed attitude.
mehs
Because if you get near MLB ready pitching and you are planning an extended rebuild you flip that pitching at the deadline next year once they are established. If you just get a bunch of low level lottery tickets you have a much higher chance of winding up with nothing.
Begamin
I didnt say for them to get lottery tickets. There are top prospects that are not close to being MLB ready. (lottery tickets are not top prospects that happen to be low in the low level of the minors, lottery tickets are prospects that are not highly regarded to be good MLB players but they are obviously very young and could still pan out).
eze01
A lot would have to go right for that to happen. No guarantee the pitcher stays healthy or has a good enough season to flip. I wasn’t suggesting low level lottery tickets. Could get near mlb ready position player. A pitcher could be their best return anyway, I just dont get the point of focusing on it.
augold5
Brewers are not trading Arcia and Burnes for a 3 month rental. I would rather have Cabrera, Dozier or Merrifield for middle IF help if thats how much its going to cost. Idk why people are giving up on Arcia. He’s a season removed from a 2.5 WAR season batting .277/.407/.731 while being one of the top defensive SS in the league. Keep in mind that he’s only 23! He developed some flaws in his swing that he needs to work out in the minors, thats not the 1st time that someone has went through a “sophomore slump”. I trust that Stearns won’t trade Arcia for a rental, but the notion that Arcia won’t be a productive MLB player in just nonsense.
bravesandcrewfan
Machado would be middle IF help because we have shaw. I would rather machado than dozier or Cabrera because those are 3 month rentals too. Although I would really like Merrifield on our squad
augold5
Ik Machado would play SS, I was saying I would rather have Dozier and Cabrera because they won’t cost as much.
dimelotitony
No way in hell Cashman will trade Sheffield or any other GM give those kind of demands that the Orioles are asking for. Again the Oriole have no one to blame but themselves they had a chance last year at the all-star break or even this winter to trade a player that would have given that new team more ammunition from Machado.
Now they are asking for the moon on a two month rental that happens to be a free agent at the end of the year. Orioles dropped the ball and eventually they will either settle for fringe players in any organization that is looking to upgrade or they will look stupid and keep him and get a pick which would set that franchise back even further.
A GM’s job is to better his ballclub no matter whom you are looking to trade them too whether in your division or same city if Baltimore had simply traded Manny over the winter the Yankees would have bit and given them Andujar,Sheffield or Adams plus possibly even Florial but by stubbornly thinking they will be able to compete with a makeshift rotation the Orioles No Longer are in the Driver’s seat and all the GM’s know this.
Best case would be ask for tier 2 players and get some bodies in that minor league system and the Mets, Reds are another team that should be taken notice not to hang on too late with potential trading pieces before it too blows up in their faces.
Begamin
Yeah the GMs that should be selling dont seem to understand that they dont have that much leverage just because the teams they sell to are in Win Now mode. Sure, Win Now mode teams are more desperate for players now, but if the sellers dont sell then they make no profit. Theres not even a clear fit for Machado on the Yankees and yet they ask for their best pitching prospect when SP is what the Yankees actually need? A bit of an FU from the Orioles FO if you ask me. If i’m the Yankees I wouldnt even consider falling to those demands
realgone2
It’s not the GM it’s that senile old fart Angelos.
driftcat28 2
I would not trade Sheffield for half a year of Manny. He’s great, don’t get me wrong. But there are no guarantees he resigns. Meanwhile Sheffield can be a stud for years to come and we all know how shaky Yankees pitching is (besides Sevy & CC). I’d offer Baltimore a package including Abreu and Medina for machado since there still a few years away and have great upside.
dimelotitony
I don’t see Cashman doing that giving up on Sheffield after giving up Miller for him more in line for him to give up would be Acevedo, Wade, Chance Adams players like that the reason being because he will have a numbers crunch to do soon because of the 40 man roster and whom to hold onto and protect and whom he feels would need to trade.
Right now in terms of better overall package the Yankees have the most players to offer at Tier 2 and lower and MLB players in the minors as well.
Yes Manny can impact any team that is fighting for a playoff spot but for a rental the demands will be lowered and the Orioles know that they had their best shot last year and this falls on the owner and not the GM.
mrnatewalter
If the offer is Acevado, Wade, and Adams, I have a strong suspicion Machado will be playing elsewhere.
Steven Chinwood
If they want Machado for the playoff run this year you’re right it’s gonna take a better package then a Acevado-who’ll probably end up in the BP, Wade-Utility player who can’t seem to hit, Adams-someone who’s lost a lot of value and is another BP arm. If the O’s want quality starters how on earth would that package not insult them.
RedRooster
I hope for the Orioles’ sake that they hit on that comp pick.
Knowthemarket
Interesting. So Jeff Toddb is saying that NONE of the suitors are offering a top 100 pitching prospect? If that’s the case, we all need to check our expectations on what Machado is going to draw.
gc1998
Machado does not put them over the top with Gray penciled in for a sure L every five days. They need to replace Gray.
sufferforsnakes
Zero chance the Indians give up either of the pitchers mentioned.
User 589131137
who do you believe becomes the better pro?
sufferforsnakes
Bieber.
Jonesyy
Orioles simply waited too long to trade Machado. Teams may yield more closer to the deadline but O’s will probably have to drop their asking price
Knowthemarket
I’ve never liked the idea of the Braves trading for Machado but now I am even more opposed to it. The Braves have gone 15-16 since June. This looks more like what is expected of the Braves. Machado isn’t going to fix that by himself. The Braves need greater production out of SS. Machado would fix that..for two months. But they also need greater production out of Center Field, (Inciarte) two more quality relievers and probably even a JA Happ or something around that kind of starter. Getting all that at the cost of the Braves farm would decimate their depth and cost us a lot of quality prospects.
The Braves need to stick to the plan and wait for 2019. They will have some money to help those week points and have greater maturity from their prospects and rookies.
realgone2
Agreed they need a SP and pen help
kbarr888
I personally think that the Orioles are asking way too much for two months of Manny Machado. Nobody should pay the price that they’re asking.
Because of their greed I hope the Orioles end up getting just a compensatory draft pick for Machado. The Cubs paid way too much for Aroldis Chapman….. and some stupid GM will pay too much for Machado.
jbigz12
When his back hits the wall a deal will be made. A playoff team will look at Machado and the two will meet in the middle. I’ll tell you the biggest reason I’m confident about this is because IF Angelos gets that comp pick he has to pay out that signing bonus. It’d save him some coin to dump Machados salary and pick up a prospect he doesn’t have to pay out the signing bonus too. It’s sad that I believe that is a key factor in all of this, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t.
jbigz12
Ultimately though it wouldn’t surprise me to see him go to the brewers. For some reason we LOVE players who hit HRs and have horrendous plate discipline. Broxton and Phillips fit that perfectly. The brewers can easily part with either one or both in a package for Machado. It’s unfortunate because I think we could find a lot more interesting pieces elsewhere. The dodgers have prospects I would certainly prefer but I don’t run the team.
Larky
Machado grows old with the Os he’s going nowhere they said on espnso what now
Caseys.Partner
Sheffield + Gleyber Torres.
Flags fly forever!
xabial
He doesn’t guarantee a flag. Feel like trading for pitching, would be more of a flag guarantee.
And they wouldn’t include Torres.
I don’t think you understand the concept of “untouchable” I’ll double down on that statement: Machado is a RENTAL. Stop repeating this!!!
RedRooster
Every prospect is untouchable until he isn’t
xabial
Torres has more team-control than Snell.
Oh, Torres isn’t a consensus top-prospect anymore. He’s graduated to top MLB player. He’s someone you build around.
thegreatcerealfamine
Why are you pressing this when the Phillies are gonna get him?
Bobby Mongan
The bottom line is that for anyone looking for a bat and a talent to put them over the top against other elite teams… Manny Machado is that available talent that can do so. The Yankees in my opinion probably have a strong enough farm to be able to withstand a deal for Machado and lose a few prospects. They are going to need help to edge out Boston for the AL East Crown and if they achieve that, they’re going to need help to combat the Astro’s if they meet them. Machado makes sense for the Yankees and if they can pry Britton along with Machado.. well I believe they will definitely be willing to make that sacrifice.
srdiaz1972
Come on Billy Eppler, send Griffin Canning to Baltimore for Machado. Bring Manny to the Angels!
RedRooster
I doubt whether a team that is 10 games back of a Wild Card spot would be interested in trading for Machado.
josuph
I don’t really understand the logic here. Yankees get 2 top 100 prospects plus a useful major league pitcher and nice lottery ticket for half a year of Chapman. Rangers get 3 above average prospects for half a year of Darvish (after completely botching the run up to the deadline and deciding to trade Darvish to whoever was still churning in the water at the last second). But Orioles fans should expect to be disappointed in the return for Machado because… JD Martinez trade? That’s absurd. Machado impacts the game in a positive way on both sides of the dish every day. Martinez was bashed all last summer (in large part by this site) for being a bat only player with a poor injury history. Even if you don’t like his SS defense (98% of plays made isn’t good enough?!), he is far from the bat only player that Martinez remains. And Machado carries no injury history that I am aware of. Just seriously flawed logic here. Ok, so you didn’t trot out the Martinez trade this time. But you have on multiple occasions in the recent past. The Martinez trade remains here like a vague whisper that you dare not mention (because it’s wrong!), though your logic remains the same, all that you’ve changed is that you’ve dropped your strongest premise. And don’t say that Chapman or Darvish are more valuable than Machado. Or go ahead, say it. But you’ll be wrong. Very wrong. Ok. Sorry. Love the site!
Begamin
I agree with you that Machado may be worth more than Chapman, but almost everyone agrees that the Cubs overpayed for Chapman. Also you have to consider when you dont have a clear need for a player, the demand for him goes down. In the Cubs scenario they had a clear need for bullpen arms so the demand for Chapman went up. So its the opposite with Machado and the Yankees.
RedRooster
But was anything else offering anything close to what the Cubs gave up for Chapman? If not, then they got have gotten him without giving up Torres. The Yanks weren’t going to just not trade him.
RedRooster
Here’s an interesting topic to talk about. What was the best offer made for Aroldis Chapman besides the Cubs’ offer? Did someone else offer a prospect who was close to as good as Gleyber Torres at the time? If so, then that’s the market for you. If not, then the Cubs really and truly botched that one. They could have gotten Chapman without giving up Gleyber Torres. The Yankees had to trade Chapman.
On Machado, it’s the same thing. He’s worth whatever the highest bidder says he’s worth. The only leverage the Orioles have is demand from other teams and the qualifying offer. I still think they will end up keeping him and QOing him.
yes
Wow.. look at all the comments!