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NL Rumors: Phils, Boras, Cards, Dodgers, J. Martinez, Giants, Tulo

By Connor Byrne | December 11, 2018 at 11:21pm CDT

The latest free-agent and trade rumors from the National League…

  • The Phillies met with agent Scott Boras on Tuesday at the Winter Meetings, where they discussed clients Bryce Harper and Zach Britton, Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia reports. Even after agreeing to sign fellow outfielder Andrew McCutchen on Tuesday, the Phillies continue to have interest in Harper, Salisbury writes. Meanwhile, the Phillies have been “very aggressive” in their pursuit of Britton as they attempt to strengthen their bullpen, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets.
  • The Cardinals have shown interest in both Britton and fellow free-agent lefty Andrew Miller, but the belief is that they’re more interested in the former, per Mark Saxon of The Athletic (subscription required). St. Louis has also been connected to Giants relievers Will Smith and Tony Watson, and Saxon suggests the Cardinals may be willing to trade an outfielder – either Jose Martinez or Tyler O’Neill, but preferably the former – to San Francisco. The Cards have been “pushing” Martinez for Smith, Henry Schulman of the San Franscisco Chronicle reports.
  • More on Martinez, who’s drawing interest from the Dodgers, Rosenthal tweets. The two teams are discussing Martinez, with Rosenthal noting the Dodgers could use the defensively challenged 30-year-old at first base and deploy Cody Bellinger in center field. Despite his defensive limitations, Martinez has proven himself a formidable hitter, and he’s controllable for the next four years.
  • As for the aforementioned Giants relievers, they’re generating a “high level of interest,” president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi told Maria Guardado of MLB.com and other reporters Tuesday. Zaidi added that “we’re going to have to feel good about the return to trade one of those guys.” 
  • Continuing with the Giants, Zaidi suggested Tuesday that they’ll consider free-agent shortstop Troy Tulowitzki, Schulman tweets. Tulowitzki would presumably back up both shortstop Brandon Crawford and second baseman Joe Panik in San Francisco. It’s worth noting that Tulowitzki’s a Bay Area native who, according to his agent, would be interested in playing there.
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Andrew Miller Bryce Harper Jose Martinez Los Angeles Dodgers Philadelphia Phillies San Francisco Giants St. Louis Cardinals Troy Tulowitzki Tyler O'Neill Zach Britton

Mets, Yankees, Marlins In Talks On Three-Team Deal Involving J.T. Realmuto
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FA/Trade Rumors: Kinsler, Jays, Yanks, Indians, Miller, Allen, Miley
136 comments
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Comments

  1. BleedBlue_LA

    2 years ago

    O’Neil for Will Smith. Ignore my name.

    4 Like
    Reply
    • beisbolista

      2 years ago

      I already did

      1 Like
      Reply
    • Glory Pujols

      2 years ago

      Ignore my name too

      10 Like
      Reply
  2. RiverCatsFilms

    2 years ago

    Signing Tulo means we get to trade Crawford. When can we sign him?

    2 Like
    Reply
    • Balk

      2 years ago

      Hahahahahaha, Crawdog won’t be going anywhere. Full no trade, grew up in the Dublin area in the bay, 4 kids….nothing in it for him, says the guy with two rings.

      6 Like
      Reply
    • imgman09

      2 years ago

      No,Tulo because of his health problems will be a part time player,Perfect!

      1 Like
      Reply
      • Balk

        2 years ago

        Correct if we can keep him from the A’s

        Like
        Reply
  3. stubby66

    2 years ago

    Brewers go get Will Smith for Santana or Ray

    Like
    Reply
    • sigmanj

      2 years ago

      Ray way to valuable. A Ray/Thames deal for Puig would be better for Milwaukee. Can’t count on Braun to play 100 games next year…

      Like
      Reply
      • Michael Chaney

        2 years ago

        Thames is exactly the type of guy you’d want to have if Braun can’t play 100 games…why trade him and a good prospect for a one-year stopgap they might not even need?

        1 Like
        Reply
  4. troll

    2 years ago

    , carlos martinez, cecil and fowler, for puig, kemp

    1 Like
    Reply
    • bighiggy

      2 years ago

      If Kemp and Puig werent both free agents next year this actually doesnt seem too bad. It’s not that far fetched

      Like
      Reply
      • baseballpun

        2 years ago

        Yeah it is.

        3 Like
        Reply
      • bencole

        2 years ago

        Why would the Cardinals do this?

        4 Like
        Reply
        • bighiggy

          2 years ago

          Puig would be solid in right and the cards would shed quite a bit of future payroll since Puig and Kemp would both be free agents after the season. But there would have to be other different parts too. He just suggested something. People are so negative on here

          Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          Carlos Martinez has one of the highest trade values in the game.

          He has too 25 prospect caliber trade value considering his contract and consistently low 3 ERA’s. They aren’t taking bad money for him if they wanted to trade him.

          And if the Cards wanted to upgrade right, away from O’Neill and Fowler, they’d go hard after Harper.

          And they don’t need more one year expiring guys, considering two of their core offensive players aren’t under control for 2020

          Every part of that trade proposal ignores what the cards want, need, and would do. Basically, no part of it had any semblance in reality.

          4 Like
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          The Cardinals don’t need two starting outfielders. They have no reason to trade one of their aces just to sit Kemp on the bench, especially when they’d still have both Jose Martinez and O’Neill as well. Plus, both of them having expiring contracts is a negative, since they still have Carlos Martinez under contract at a bargain rate for a few more years.

          3 Like
          Reply
        • braves25

          2 years ago

          @Jfactor and Lanidrac

          The fact that Puig and Kemp are in expiring contracts is the whole point of this trade idea. They get rid of the future payroll of Fowler so that after this season they can try to resign Goldy and have more money to do so.

          Maybe Martinez is not the guy he should have offered, but I am not sure Martinez has the trade value you guys are thinking either. He has been very inconsistent and injuries keep popping up. Albeit nothing major, but every year it is something. Plus didnt they move him to the bullpen in 2018 because of his inconsistency as a starter? Yes he is a great talent as have high trade value, but not as high as you are thinking.

          Like
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        • Vedder80

          2 years ago

          No, they did not move him to the bullpen because of inconsistency. They moved him to the bullpen because of the timing of his return from injury, and the lack of any viable options in the bullpen.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • Kane

          2 years ago

          More money to do so? Bro, you realize the cash that the Cards are sitting on already? We have enough cash to extend Goldy and sign Harper to a block buster deal.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • Roosterbat

          2 years ago

          do you realize you are talking about 2 below average baseball players?, ….and a Puig, the selfish one that needs to be traded anywhere immediately…..

          Like
          Reply
        • Dad

          2 years ago

          I have no idea why they want to get rid of their best hitter.Say what you want but Martinez can stand there all day and foul off pitches and wear out a pitcher before he gets a hit.To me that’s a lost art,guys are in the bullpen for a reason.

          Like
          Reply
    • Stromalama

      2 years ago

      The Cardinals don’t have room for two outfielders.

      1 Like
      Reply
  5. halofan20

    2 years ago

    Hey I thought Tulo said that if he’s not playing shortstop that he would pack it up and go home, but now is willing to play second base? Oh how the tables have turned.

    2 Like
    Reply
    • Frisco500

      2 years ago

      Hes from Petaluma, that’s close to San Francisco. So technically he’d be true to his word.

      10 Like
      Reply
      • halofan20

        2 years ago

        Well touché

        5 Like
        Reply
    • stubby66

      2 years ago

      Go get him Milwaukee

      Like
      Reply
  6. Fire Jon Daniels

    2 years ago

    Rangers need to get in on Martinez for DH and dump choo’s salary on someone

    3 Like
    Reply
    • LADreamin

      2 years ago

      Rangers aren’t going to be doing anything with their payroll capacity, nor competing next year so they could just let Choo play and keep their farm intact. They should be buying prospects by adding salary and waiting for a young core to assemble.

      1 Like
      Reply
      • Ejemp2006

        2 years ago

        Hello, this is earth and your mom called asking about your Christmas sweater! Zing! Of course the Rangers will compete next year AND Choo is a big part of their plan. No way you unload his contract or get obsessed with prospects, because it’s harder to replace him than pay him. Next year they’ll mash their way through the dumpster fire rebuild teams and win 87-90 games and maybe get that second wild card.

        Like
        Reply
        • dodgersin8

          2 years ago

          the rangers are a lousy team with no pitching. they’d be fortunate to win more games than Seattle.

          Like
          Reply
  7. baseballpun

    2 years ago

    Keep Martinez. His defensive issues in right are overstated.

    4 Like
    Reply
    • Vedder80

      2 years ago

      No they aren’t. He is awful in both the outfield and first base.

      Like
      Reply
    • Dad

      2 years ago

      Agreed

      Like
      Reply
  8. dandan

    2 years ago

    Would love Tulo in a Giants jersey. Hopefully he can stay healthy.

    3 Like
    Reply
    • SHARK_VACUUM_GUY

      2 years ago

      No, that guy has worse knees than my grandpa. Also he has hated on the giants in the past having grown up an A’s fan, so tulo can get bent. He can go play for the jokeland A’s

      3 Like
      Reply
      • CCCTL

        2 years ago

        Well, he did also say he wanted to play for a *winning* team…

        4 Like
        Reply
        • BalcoBomber

          2 years ago

          ZING!

          1 Like
          Reply
        • gmenfan

          2 years ago

          A team that wins in the regular season and then folds in the playoffs, you mean ? Perfect fit then.

          2 Like
          Reply
      • Vince

        2 years ago

        Willie Mccovey played for the A’s.

        Like
        Reply
    • WarrenSpahn

      2 years ago

      yes, he is the prototype Giants signing: broken-down has-been

      Like
      Reply
  9. troll

    2 years ago

    j martinez and oneill for crawford. dejong then plays third base.

    1 Like
    Reply
    • baseballpun

      2 years ago

      Carp is playing 3rd.

      7 Like
      Reply
      • troll

        2 years ago

        was

        Like
        Reply
        • BleedBlue_LA

          2 years ago

          Xabial doesn’t accept this offer. Goodbye.

          10 Like
          Reply
    • campos101214

      2 years ago

      Dejong and O’Neill for Crawford and Watson Cash.

      1 Like
      Reply
      • wesstl

        2 years ago

        Wouldn’t do that deal if I was Cards. Too much control/salary differences.

        1 Like
        Reply
      • bighiggy

        2 years ago

        Isnt Crawford a free agent next year? Cards have no one in the pipeline to replace Crawford in that proposal if he left in free agency. Dejong is also signed to a pretty affordable extension, making his worth higher.

        1 Like
        Reply
        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          Crawford is signed through 2021. But he’s not going to waive his no-trade clause to move out of the Bay Area. He’s a San Francisco Giant until he’s cut from the team.

          5 Like
          Reply
      • hollidayfever

        2 years ago

        LOLz. I wouldn’t trade Tyler Oneill by himself for the two of Crawford and Watson. Dejong was a top 3-5 defensive shortstop last year and a far better hitter than Crawford the last two years. O’Neill was worth 1.3 WAR in 140ish PA. Crawford is a defense only 2 WAR SS the last two years. He’s a less valuable piece than Wong for that matter too. So let’s trade two players that are cheaper and better in every way and also displace our entire infield in the process. Giants are kidding themselves if they do anything other than complete fire sale of every thing not nailed down. Trade MadBum for whatever you can get. That window of contention is closed and the minor league cupboard is bare.

        6 Like
        Reply
        • BleedBlue_LA

          2 years ago

          Don’t be salty that the Cardinals lost to the giants in the LCS twice. DeJong is not better than Crawford and every Cardinal fan knows it.

          6 Like
          Reply
        • SHARK_VACUUM_GUY

          2 years ago

          Zing ! Giants came back after being down 3-1 in the series to best the red bride too lol

          4 Like
          Reply
        • SHARK_VACUUM_GUY

          2 years ago

          *red birds

          Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          Yes, DeJong is easily better than Crawford, and the data easily supports it.

          Plus, DeJong is way more valuable as a shortstop. Great range and covers a ton of ground, while only having an average arm. And his bat plays fine at shortstop, but would be only average at third. There is no reason for the cards to move him off short. Dude very likely could be a top 5 shortstop in all of the game next season.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • Dodgethis

          2 years ago

          Ah, excuse me, there is not a shred of data showing any infielder from your second rate team is better than Crawford. Your top 3-5 defensive assessment is laughable, even more so when you realize Crawford is the 1 or 2. Last year was a down year but Crawford hits for a higher average than most shortstops and hits for power. I’m not sure what the world looks like through your deluded eyes, but it’s obviously not right.

          2 Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          DeJong has a 111 wRC+ over the last two season, Crawford has an 89

          Crawford has 15 DRS in 2500 innings, DeJong has 14 in 1750 innings.

          Tell me more though how the cards are a second rate team while the Giants enjoy their rebuild.

          2 Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          DeJong hits for a higher average, OBP, and more iso to go with better slugging over the last two years.

          Add in that Paul is 6.5 years younger, and it’s easy to understand why the cards wouldn’t move DeJong off short for Crawford.

          Especially when the options at first and third are 5 win players, and Wong is arguably the best defensive 2B in the game.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • hollidayfever

          2 years ago

          You’re clearly delusional and living in the past. You’ve got no payroll room and a bunch of old players on bad contracts. There’s hardly any help coming from their farm system anytime soon and MadBum is pretty much the only guy they are likely to get a remotely premium return for. Crawford isn’t even as valuable as Kolten Wong is. He’s a 2 WAR SS, which is average at best overall. Dejong was on a 4-5 WAR/600 PA pace before getting hit by a pitch and breaking his wrist.

          2 Like
          Reply
        • Balk

          2 years ago

          Crazy crazy crazy talk!! How many Gold gloves does Crawford have? How many clutch hits does Crawford have? How many rings does Crawford have? On top of it all, the Giants aren’t moving Crawford. Nope.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • hollidayfever

          2 years ago

          Good, then we are in agreement that the Cardinals have 4 clearly better options than him on the infield already and therefore have no use for him!

          Like
          Reply
      • Stromalama

        2 years ago

        No thanks.

        Like
        Reply
    • JFactor

      2 years ago

      You are on a roll of unrealistic trades.

      Cards infield is set. Though they might trade Jedd away from it. But that would be it.

      1 Like
      Reply
      • Dad

        2 years ago

        Actually a 2.0 war player is average not a 0.0 war player. If they are not a 2.0 war they are in the minors or on the bench.

        Like
        Reply
  10. Clark K

    2 years ago

    I’ve kept my mouth shut on this for awhile, but the site needs to do something about the people that refuse to stop talking about Xabial. He’s not even commenting and people are bringing his name up bullying him, it’s not okay at all.

    Get a life, if he wants to comment on here first every article or repeat stuff let him. You don’t have to read it or respond ignore him! You’re literally bullying a kid for no reason and you’re a horrible person for doing it. And shame on the staff for not really doing anything.

    22 Like
    Reply
    • baseballpun

      2 years ago

      I second this.

      8 Like
      Reply
    • BleedBlue_LA

      2 years ago

      Xabial is commenting through beisbolista. He has like 100 accounts to give himself upvotes. You don’t know the whole story.

      14 Like
      Reply
    • mrnatewalter

      2 years ago

      If it means I don’t have to scroll through 300 comments of non-baseball nonsense, I agree.

      7 Like
      Reply
    • wiggysf

      2 years ago

      I completely agree.

      3 Like
      Reply
    • Dodgethis

      2 years ago

      You realize the only “people” mentioning xabial is xabial on other accounts, Right?

      3 Like
      Reply
  11. jekporkins

    2 years ago

    Giants fan here – don’t want Tulo. Certainly, don’t see him playing much shortstop with Crawford averaging 150 games a year, and don’t need to see him on the DL 140 games next year and taking a roster spot.

    5 Like
    Reply
    • SHARK_VACUUM_GUY

      2 years ago

      Agreed

      2 Like
      Reply
    • mrnatewalter

      2 years ago

      If he’s on the DL for 140 games, he’s eligible for the 60-day DL and doesn’t use up a roster spot.

      What’s the harm in trying a guy like Tulo on a league minimum deal for depth purposes? If it doesn’t work, no harm. Cut him and move on.

      7 Like
      Reply
      • jekporkins

        2 years ago

        What if he’s on the field for 10, on the DL for 10, back for 8, back on the DL for 10 that runs long… or what if he goes on the 60-day DL after the season starts and the Giants had passed on a decent backup free agent that would have had that roster spot?

        Like
        Reply
        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          The Giants would likely cut him at that point.

          He’s gonna cost the league minimum for whoever signs him. If he’s that much of a hassle, they move along. There’s not going to require any level of commitment on the part of the Giants.

          Farhan Zaidi isn’t going to stop himself from signing a free agent over some dude making 500K.

          3 Like
          Reply
    • skip

      2 years ago

      It’s called league minimum. Cut him loose any time plus if he’s going to sign in the Bay Area he’s going to sign with the A’s to play second on a winning team!

      2 Like
      Reply
      • Balk

        2 years ago

        Maybe maybe not, but true! He could get picked up by the A’s

        1 Like
        Reply
      • Dodgethis

        2 years ago

        When is the last time the a’ s even had a fan in that decrepit stadium?

        1 Like
        Reply
    • Vince

      2 years ago

      Tulo is tons better then anybody the Giants have as infield backup. They don’t need to trade the reliever arms that they have.

      Like
      Reply
    • Vince

      2 years ago

      He wouldn’t take up a roster spot. Tulo wouldn’t be blocking anybody. He is far superior to anyone they had last year.

      Like
      Reply
  12. Balk

    2 years ago

    Definitely could see them going for Tulo.

    Like
    Reply
  13. zachgwest

    2 years ago

    Max Muncy play 2nd? 3rd he was horrible maybe with some work he can play 2nd.

    Like
    Reply
  14. snotrocket

    2 years ago

    O’Neil for either of Smith or Watson. Giants need all the young outfielders with upside they can get.

    3 Like
    Reply
    • hollidayfever

      2 years ago

      You’re not getting 6 years of control of O’Neill for 1 season of a lefty setup guy.

      2 Like
      Reply
      • mrnatewalter

        2 years ago

        Fine. Go pay Andrew Miller $13M a year, or Kimbrel $17M a year.

        By the way, neither of those guys were as good as Will Smith or Tony Watson, both of whom were better than nearly every FA reliever (Ottavino had the same WAR as Smith).

        Smith and Watson are both paid less than $5M in 2019. You’re not getting that kind of value on the free agent market.

        2 Like
        Reply
        • bighiggy

          2 years ago

          We will give you oneill for Smith, but you have to take cecil too lol

          4 Like
          Reply
        • Payne Train

          2 years ago

          That’s not the point – you don’t give up an Oniell for one year of a relief pitcher lol ! I’d rather pay Andrew miller 30million a year and keep oniell .

          2 Like
          Reply
        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          Will Smith was nearly three times more valuable than St. Louis’ best reliever last year (John Brebbia). Watson was 2.5 times more valuable. I don’t think the Cardinals can shop for quality relievers on the trade market with any leverage. They need multiple relievers.

          Honestly, even after a trade for Will Smith, they’d still need to sign someone like Kimbrel or Robertson.

          They also want Harper. You probably aren’t getting Bryce Harper if you’re dropping $30M on relievers.

          5 Like
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        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          For what it’s worth, the entire Cardinals bullpen had a combined WAR of 0.5 last year.

          Will Smith had a WAR of 2.0. He was literally 4 times better than the ENTIRE St. Louis bullpen on his own.

          8 Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          Happily.

          The Cards can spend about $25M, so if the option is 6 years of a potential stud corner outfielder or pay an additional 9M in salary, that’s an easy choice.

          3 Like
          Reply
        • Lanidrac

          2 years ago

          The Cardinals aren’t getting Harper anyway unless they can trade Fowler first. They’ll glad spend on free agent relievers rather than make that kind of lopsided trade.

          Like
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        • StlSwifty

          2 years ago

          0% chance the cards trade O’Neill for a reliever.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • cards 82

          2 years ago

          keep O’neill and Martinez. Trade Fowler, or release Fowler I don’t care. I guess cards could trade Martinez for both giants leftys.

          Like
          Reply
        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          Lopsided trade? When a player is 4 times more valuable than your entire bullpen, and he costs 5M, you gladly trade 1 good young player.

          Smith will cost more than that at Trade Deadline, and significantly more if he had 2 years instead of 1 remaining.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • gmenfan

          2 years ago

          Martinez wont get you one one of the Giants lefties, much less both.

          1 Like
          Reply
        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          Smith has probably 10-15M in surplus value. Which is about what Martinez has.

          O’Neill has double that.

          If O’Neill is going to the Bay Area, it’s going to be for more than just a loogy with one year left.

          If they wouldn’t use him to land Paul Goldschmidt, what makes you think they would for Will Smith? And look at all of the other options in the loogy market, and compare that to getting a top 3 1B in the entire game.

          If you want O’Neill, it will probably cost Bumgarner and Smith

          3 Like
          Reply
    • Stromalama

      2 years ago

      You aren’t getting O’Neill for a reliever that only has one year of control. They didn’t even give up that good of a player for Goldy.

      2 Like
      Reply
  15. bucsfan

    2 years ago

    It used to be that you could come to this site and have a rational baseball discussion with other fans. You could get other teams fans’ insights on their own players and come out more informed. Sure, you’d see unrealistic trade proposals and a few people would say their team should grab every single player, but it was minimal and expected.

    Now it’s just a constant stream of personal attacks, up/down vote attention seekers, and almost anything but baseball. And I’m sure I’ll get ridiculed here for this take, but I think the site has a big problem that could cause people to go elsewhere for their information.

    15 Like
    Reply
    • batty

      2 years ago

      One of the problems is, other sites, like MLB.com and ESPN have done away with commenting all together. That causes commentors to seek new/different sites to express their opinion/frustrations/trolling. So some who left those other sites, before they closed commenting, to avoid certain folks are again being “forced” to deal with them.

      MLBTR has become much more popular through the years as a main source for baseball.

      2 Like
      Reply
    • 3rdStrikeLooking

      2 years ago

      Unnecessary rant. I downvoted you. Enjoy.

      Like
      Reply
  16. bucketbrew35

    2 years ago

    Not a Giants fan but I think Jose Martinez roaming the outfield at AT&T would be a unmitigated disaster. They’d have to move Belt off of 1st to make it work. And then you are basically weakening your team in two positions defensively and depleting part of your pen just to get his bat in the lineup. I’d basically tell the Cards to go screw with regards to that trade offer.

    As for Tulo he makes a ton of sense. Hometown kid who should still have plenty of range for second. Not a bad insurance policy especially after Panik fell off a cliff last year. The transition from turf to grass should also help his nagging injuries greatly.

    9 Like
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    • JFactor

      2 years ago

      I figure the Giants would have to move Belt first to consider Jose seriously.

      If anything, I figure it turns out the Cards could get one of Smith or Watson, and the Cards would trade from their outfield surplus of prospects that isn’t Fowler, Ozuna, Bader and O’Neill, but rather from the group of Lane Thomas, Adonis Garcia, Justin Williams, etc, and a young pitcher with control, like John Gant or someone like that instead.

      1 Like
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    • aochaz14

      2 years ago

      This. For me Jose Martinez to the giants just doesn’t make any sense at all. In fact him going to any team in the NL doesn’t make any sense. Cards would get much more for him dealing with an AL team anyway.

      1 Like
      Reply
      • stymeedone

        2 years ago

        Dh only types have little value, even in the AL.

        1 Like
        Reply
  17. birdsonbat

    2 years ago

    Please cards, do not trade O’Neill. Keep pushing martinez, and see what you can get.

    1 Like
    Reply
    • mrnatewalter

      2 years ago

      They’ll get some project, change of scenery reliever with upside, but mediocre stats for Martinez. He’s a 30-year-old, bat-only player (I can’t bring myself to calling himself a fielder of any sort). His market is limited to teams with a DH opening, and even those teams want more flexibility in their roster.

      Cardinals fans have to realize that St. Louis’ bullpen was comically bad last year. They desperately need upgrades, to the tune of 2-3 relievers. shopping for project relievers, DFA claims, and the misfit toy aisle isn’t going to help, nor is spending 30-45M on relievers in free agency.

      The question is this, which is worse: the Cardinals without Tyler O’Neill, or the Cardinals with a bullpen worth anywhere from 0.0 to 1.0 WAR? The answer is obvious.

      5 Like
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      • birdsonbat

        2 years ago

        That’s why the cards have money. After ozuna walks O’Neill plays left. By no means am i saying trade martinez for a rp and call it quits. I’ll take O’Neill for 6 years over 1 of will smith.

        4 Like
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        • birdsonbat

          2 years ago

          But you’re right bp is def an area of concern, just meant take what you can get for him in general, most likely an AL team as you mentioned.

          2 Like
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        • jordantm2021

          2 years ago

          I very much agree with you on this one
          Sign miller and Kimbrel and maybe someone that can rebound

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        • jbigz12

          2 years ago

          The cardinals have prospects not named Tyler O’Neill that could be used for Smith. The idea that it’s O’Neill or the Giants will walk is probably not the case. Arozarena is a solid OF in AAA and they have a nice young 3B prospect in montero who is/will be blocked by Nolan Gorman. Getting the pair of those for Will Smith would be just as good as getting Tyler O’Neill. I bet they are pushing J-mart for Smith but that’s not happening.

          1 Like
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        • gmenfan

          2 years ago

          Due to how thin the Giants farm system is, it seems like a larger haul of second tier prospects could be as appealing as one high level prospect for Smith.

          2 Like
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      • JFactor

        2 years ago

        Martinez has a career 130 wRC+

        Even with his defense being limited, getting four years of that at first base is pretty special. Especially when you see how much damage he does against lefties.

        You act like the Cards don’t have a ton of options to improve their bullpen. There are at least 12 teams looking to unload anyone with trade value, and at least 10 good options in free agency, if they choose spending makes more sense.

        Your posts come off as if you think the Giants hold all the leverage and the Cards have to just accept that Tyler O’Neill is the price it costs to get the only elite reliever available, and only the Giants have that reliever.

        Fixing a bullpen is the easiest thing to do in an off season because of how volitile they are. The cards have trade pieces, money, and no other needs.

        3 Like
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        • mrnatewalter

          2 years ago

          I’ve never once stated that it’s Tyler O’Neill or bust.

          I’ve stated WHY it would be justified for the Cardinals to move someone like Tyler O’Neill for a guy who was 4 times better than their entire bullpen last year. Rental or not, there’s insane value for a guy like Smith.

          Nor have I stated that the Giants hold the only elite reliever.

          Instead, I’ve pointed out that the other options are going to cost the Cardinals a lot more. Kimbrel will cost 4 times more money. A younger reliever with team control is going to cost them 2-3 more good prospects.

          My point has been, finding a reliever who was top ten in WAR for $5M or less is hard to come by, and with teams looking to save money at every turn, his salary only enhances his value.

          2 Like
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        • JFactor

          2 years ago

          The cards don’t need to save money. Talent is more important than cash right now.

          Last off-season it was different (limited budget and plenty of redundant prospects).

          The cards can easily shop elsewhere

          2 Like
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        • birdistheword

          2 years ago

          Agreed!

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        • stan lee the manly

          2 years ago

          It doesn’t matter how much stronger Smith was then the Cardinals bullpen options last year. That still doesn’t justify moving a possible star outfielder with that much control for one year of him. You want to use War, great. Say ONeill averages 1.5 War a year for his control years, which is definitely less than I expect. So the Cardinals should trade 9 War for 2 War? There’s a huge difference in value. It doesn’t matter if Smith is the top reliever in the game, he’s a reliever. Not an everyday possibly star outfielder. Those will ALWAYS have a higher value than relievers in today’s game.

          The argument that Smith was better than the Cardinals bullpen so they need to overpay with O’Neill is like saying that Jedd Gyorko and his 2.0 War was better than the entire Baltimore Orioles infield and they need to give up a top prospect for him. It’s a ridiculous argument and it completely ignores the existing market for both players involved.

          4 Like
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  18. Priggs89

    2 years ago

    Instead of trying to pay Nelson Cruz, Rick Hahn should try to flip a reliever for Martinez and bring him back to the team he started his career with.

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  19. Stac22

    2 years ago

    It would make zero sense for the Cardinals to trade either J. Martinez or O’Neill for Will Smith. Injury prone and in his last year of arbitration. Are the Giants not rebuilding ? Would they not just take a prospect or 2 for Smith or Tony Watson? Cards didn’t give up many pieces in the Goldschmidt trade, would be a huge loss to turn around and trade one of their best hitters from last year in Martinez who will probably still hit in the 2 spot even if he’s platooning with Fowler. (That would depend on how Fowler hits, both are below average defenders in RF) and trading O’Neill would make zero sense if the Cardinals are looking to eventually shed Fowler’s salary/don’t end up re-signing Ozuna next offseason. Im pretty sure they still see O’Neill as part of the OF of the future with Bader. Cards already didn’t get a good return on trading Pham or Voit even if that gets forgotten in the hype of the Goldschmidt move. I know Voit would’ve had a hard time playing everyday in STL but if Pham stays hot the Cardinals could eventually look in the mirror and regret not just DFA’ing Fowler when they could have (would’ve had a hard time trading him at the time with the no trade clause and we see what just happened with Tulo) rather than keeping Tommy Pham through his arbitration years. If you think about it, Pham was so affordible that if they would’ve kept Pham around the money that would’ve been shed cutting Fowler loose this offseason would’ve almost been like paying for Tommy Phams production in his place.. (in a way I guess?) Pham was MVP caliber in 2017 and he got red hot in Tampa and still has several years of cheap control. Cards don’t need to trade Jose Martinez on top of that. would be another regrettable move that would seriously take away from the excitement that the Goldschmidt trade has brought to the fan base. Subtracting Martinez or O’Neill would be a step backward if the Cards are trying to get back to the postseason.

    1 Like
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    • batty

      2 years ago

      Trading J. Martinez is a must this off season. He has massive negative value on the defensive side. Trading him helps the Cardinals get better. Both J. Martinez and O’Neill can’t/won’t be on the roster to open the season because of the short benches in today’s game.

      1 Like
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  20. Stac22

    2 years ago

    Cardinals will eventually need Jose Martinez (and Fowler if he ends up bouncing back) to play with Bader and O’Neill if they can’t/don’t re-sign Ozuna and/or if Carp signs with an AL team after 2020. Getting a seemingly very little return for Pham (and Voit, but mostly Pham) hurt the Cards. Trading controllable assets like (Pham) Jose or O’Neill could eventually leave the cardinals in danger of being depleted in a year or 2 if Ozuna, Mikolas, Goldschmidt, carp end up leaving St. Louis for larger market teams even though I know it’s likely at least one of the 4 of them will stay in STL. Goldschmidt will have a huge price tag, Mikolas probably will too, Ozuna has a chance to cash in big if he stays healthy, possibly 100 million plus since he is still on the right side of 30. Carp will get an expensive multi year deal to finish his career. (Can imagine at least McCutchen money or better) And with Yadi retiring after 2020 most likely, Cards need to keep guys like Jose and O’Neill around who have produced in the Majors and are affordable and controllable. (Side Note, Carson Kelly hasnt produced in the Majors and if the cards would’ve kept him until Yadi retired he would’ve been 26-27 already, and Luke Weaver had produced just enough in the majors to be a “key piece” in the Goldschmidt deal, cardinals still have several more controllable guys with probably more upside than Kelly/Weaver… Jose is a proven hitter in the MLB and O’Neill is young, Athletic, and has shown signs of elite power)

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    • Lanidrac

      2 years ago

      It’s not like the Cardinals don’t have inside options to replace some of these guys, though. They have a wealth of starting pitching options to replace Mikolas and Wacha, Knitzner will likely replace Molina, Gorman will likely take over 3B in a couple of years, while O’Neill may be able to replace Ozuna.

      As it stands, Jose Martinez is currently a mostly redundant option for the Cards with Goldschmidt at 1B and Fowler and O’Neill both aiming to compete for playing time in RF, both of whom play much better defense than Martinez. On top of that, the Cards still need to add a left-handed bat to the bench, which further squeezes out roster space for Martinez. Right now is clearly the best time to trade him.

      2 Like
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    • stan lee the manly

      2 years ago

      Genesis Cabrera is going to be their answer in the bullpen from the left side for years starting either next year or 2020. The return for Pham is going to turn out a lot better than what people realize

      1 Like
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      • birdistheword

        2 years ago

        I sure hope so……

        1 Like
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  21. gainer34

    2 years ago

    Martinez trade is done. Going to an unknown team for a reliever. Also possible that it’s a 3 team involving puig.

    1 Like
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  22. forwhomjoshbelltolls

    2 years ago

    If Tulo is willing to settle for lots of rivers instead of the bay, it’s hard to see a better fit for him than the Pirates.

    Hurdle is the manager and they have a whole lot of maybe at SS.

    Like
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  23. birdistheword

    2 years ago

    Come on MO….Do what needs to be done! We have the resources. Stop being so “overly” analytical and make the right moves. There is some type of risk to any move, No risk…,No reward!

    1 Like
    Reply
  24. What

    2 years ago

    No idea where this “Martinez sucks defensively” comes from. He has 9 career errors. In 3 years. Me might not get to every ball with agility, but he makes the routine plays. And. He. Hits. Consistently.

    1 Like
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    • birdistheword

      2 years ago

      I have to admit it has been exciting to watch Jose come to the plate and he seems to be a positive clubhouse guy.

      1 Like
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  25. Four4fore

    2 years ago

    Why not J Martinez to Boston for Swihart?

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  26. Roosterbat

    2 years ago

    bad week for baseball…..McCutchen is washed up and therefore deserves at least 20 million a year………..and baseball historians have to justify …Harold Baines. …then answer for Trammel, Raines, and Morris.

    Time to put Mattingly, Munson, and Bernie Williams in the Hall….just because they are not hall of famers…….the ‘Baines’ rules apply

    1 Like
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  27. Four4fore

    2 years ago

    Question is whether you want Martinez or Gyorko as you RH off the bench.

    Like
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    • birdistheword

      2 years ago

      Great Question! Pro’s and Con’s to both….

      Like
      Reply
  28. javier

    2 years ago

    If the cardinals trade O’Neill that will be a super dumb move. Smith isn’t with it

    1 Like
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    • javier

      2 years ago

      Neither is Watson

      Like
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  29. strat1956

    2 years ago

    Phillies should reach out to the Yankees and trade for Stanton. Then the Yankees could sign Harper. Harper is perfect for Yankee Stadium and Fenway. Stanton would be a nice fit in Philadelphia.

    Like
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    • We’re_Pham-ily

      2 years ago

      His no trade still exists..

      Like
      Reply
  30. OCTraveler

    2 years ago

    Martinez to the Dodgers makes little sense – the Dodgers already have a financially controllable player with power but no glove playing first base in Max Muncy – if they get Martinez first they acquire a higher contract and then they must find out what to do with Muncy.

    Like
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