The Padres, Reds, and Indians have engaged in discussions regarding a possible three-team trade scenario, according to Dennis Lin and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter links).
Precise permutations aren’t known, but the concept at play appears to be one that would send Cleveland ace Corey Kluber to Cincinnati via San Diego. Neither is it clear how serious talks are; Lin does emphasize, though, that no deal is close at present.
It seems the driving force here is the Friars’ search for a third baseman — and their ongoing attempt to structure a significant deal that improves the MLB roster now without denting the future outlook. Having failed to line up in direct talks to this point, Lin suggests, GM A.J. Preller is attempting to piece together more complicated, three-team arrangements.
While the Padres have long been said to be seeking quality MLB starting pitching, in addition to a hot corner upgrade, the report makes clear that they aren’t interested in acquiring Kluber for their own purposes. Though the outstanding righty certainly would be the ace the club would like to pick up, his relatively advanced age (33 in April) is a turnoff. And though his contract rights — $52.5MM over the next three years, the latter two via club option — remain quite appealing, it’s still a hefty payroll commitment for a traditionally low-budget org.
Of course, that same essential description holds also for the Reds, another team that’s hoping to boost its immediate performance while maintaining its long-term vision for a young, sustainable core. The Cincy ballclub has long been said to have interest in Kluber, and may have a slightly different tolerance for the age risk that comes with him.
Still, it’s no surprise to hear Lin reiterate that the club still isn’t terribly inclined to deal top prospect Nick Senzel to facilitate a deal. Senzel will not be parted with lightly, but indications are that he may ultimately be the object of the Padres’ fascination here. He’d more or less step right in at third base in San Diego and deliver a prized combination of youthful upside and affordable team control.
That leads to the element of this concept that’s most curious of all. The budget-conscious Indians only embarked upon talks involving Kluber as part of an effort to trim some payroll and better situate their roster for the future — all without sacrificing a still-clear path to another AL Central crown. That entire undertaking makes the most sense if the club adds a player of Senzel’s ilk.
Senzel would fit perfectly in Cleveland, where he could line up in the infield or outfield. (The Reds, of course, have considered utilizing him on the grass due to their own bumper crop of quality infielders.) Presumably, the Reds and Indians have already explored a Senzel-for-Kluber deal directly and failed to find common ground. Otherwise, it’s hard to see why the intermediary would be needed at all.
If not Senzel, then what would the Indians want out of all this? There’d surely be some level of interest in some of the Padres’ young MLB assets, with outfielder Manuel Margot and catcher Austin Hedges looking to be hypothetical fits from an outside perspective. (Interestingly, those teams lined up last summer on a deal that sent Francisco Mejia — another theoretical match — to San Diego.) But it stands to reason that the Indians would no doubt also demand some top-end young talent to drive the deal. The San Diego farm is loaded, but its very best pieces (Fernando Tatis Jr., especially) may not be on offer.
All said, it’s possible to imagine some permutations that might make sense for all involved, depending upon how the teams value the various potential pieces. But it’s an awfully tricky match. All three clubs are quite payroll sensitive. Of them, the Indians are clearly in the best position to win now, yet they’d be giving up the win-now piece. If there’s real substance to these discussions, or better still an eventual transaction, it’ll certainly represent a fascinating potential case study for understanding contemporary baseball decisionmaking.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland has no need for Hedges as they already traded for a catcher.
vannzee
They traded for Kevin Pawlecki. That does not prevent them from upgrading.
bencole
They also have Eric Haase and Roberto Perez. Hedges therefore could not not be a major piece in a Kluber deal, not that he could anyway. He could be a secondary piece though.
sufferforsnakes
Or Renfroe?
bencole
Renfroe sucks. Not a major league starter with that OBP.
sufferforsnakes
Who said anything about a starter?
nymetsking
If you’re giving up Kluber, you’re not looking for bench pieces.
bencole
Well… the thread you posted on talks about whether Hedges could be a major piece in a Kluber deal, and you said or Renfroe… and if Renfroe isn’t a starting-caliber MLB outfielder, then I think it goes without saying he can’t be the centerpiece either
boltz82
26HR and a .500+ SLG. Those are solid numbers and there are plenty of major league starting outfielders that can’t approach this numbers.
bencole
All of the value of which is destroyed by his totally unstartable career .296 OBP, he could have 36 homers and be unstartable with that OBP.
bencole
See a way worse version of Mark Trumbo
sufferforsnakes
Exactly. I’d be looking for both.
jbigz12
You can post a .300 OBP if you slug .500. Drawing walks isn’t the end all be all here. Renfroe is a fringe starter because the D isn’t great either but if this were a guy like Adam Duvall and his solid defense that profile would definitely play.
bencole
And be a legit major league starting OF? I disagree with on its face, but the defense is a factor and makes it worse. Renfroe is closer to being a DFA candidate than a prospect, partly because of him and parks because of the Padres 40 man situation. I mean realistically, someone will trade something for him, but probably not anything besides a reclamation project or someone most people have never heard of. He’s not gonna bring something with actual value, any sort of actual value.
Bernie's Dander
Probably time for CLE to tear it all down and rebuild. Dealing Kluber would just about seal their fate in the short-term. Their window closed quickly.
harmoney101575
like Ender Inciarte
sufferforsnakes
Do you read what you’ve come up with before you post?
bencole
I’m not sure who you’re asking this to… if its me, yes, I try to. I’ll assume that its not, as Hedges cannot be a headliner for Kluber, and Renfroe is awful. For example, I would much prefer John Jay to Renfroe. Because Jay is OK as a bench piece, and Renfroe sucks… There needs to be a headliner for Kluber, as a tribe fan I’m sure you agree, please come trade with my Cubs if you disagree with any of that. Maybe you’re not talking to me but it seems to be under my post.
YourDaddy
Hedges would be the #1 starter in Cleveland just like he is in San Diego. Only 5-6 places he would not be the #1 starter. Get MLB.tv so you can see games outside your home town.
jbigz12
An OPS of 800 is more important than an OBP of 350. It’s all about balance. Not every guy on your team is going to be a walks machine nor should you really want that. Every guy has his role. A player who hits posts a .300 OBP and a .500+ SLG percentage is a pretty good hitter. Plenty of wuality major league hitters don’t take ball 4 very often. Do not fall in love with the walk. I really don’t understand why everyone shoots a load over OBP. You need to have guys who drive those runs in as well.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland has Roberto Perez under contract and a prospect Eric Haase that is ready. They also recently traded for Kevin Pawlecki from the Mets. We do not need another catcher. I have MLB tv and watch other games. Cleveland has other needs and will not carry three catchers. Before being rude, know about the other team’s needs before you pop off and put others down. Your Daddy obviously did not raise you right.
YourDaddy
.805 OPS destroys your argument.
YourDaddy
The .168 hitting Roberto Perez? LMFAO. When BOTH of your catchers hit worse than Hedges, your team is in dire need of an upgrade at catcher.
RedRooster
Before considering Hedges’ elite defense
SuperSinker
Why can’t guys who post high OBP’s drive runs in as well? There is nothing more valuable to your offence than avoiding outs. There is no more precious commodity in baseball than outs. That’s why OBP is valuable, and it’s why OPS is silly (since it weights OBP and SLG equally, when a point of OBP is worth more to creating runs than SLG).
elmariachimike
Roberto Perez? The 30yo with a .519 OPS last year?
Eric Haase? The prospect whose minor league numbers look like Hedges’ MLB numbers? Good luck replicating that monster .236/.288/.443 slash while he strikes out 200+ times a year.
Kevin Plawecki? failed Mets prospect (that should be your first hint) so underwhelming that you can’t even spell his name correctly?
All that, while you call a guy who hit 26 homers in 3/4 of a season “awful”. A guy who plays half his games at a cavernous ballpark? I’ll assume you looked at his career OBP and ignored the improvement on BB, K, BA, OBP, SLUG, and overall defense (plus a cannon arm) right? Put him in Cleveland, and he’d easily be the #4/#5 hitter and would likely tickle 40 home runs.
jbigz12
Guys who have high OBP’s can also slug an acceptable number. There’s nothing wrong with OBP but there’s guys around here who believe that if you don’t post a 340+ OBP you aren’t much of a hitter and that’s just plain stupid. Do you really want your lumbering DH/1B etc to have an OBP of .380 and a SLG % of .380? No you absolutely do not. How many times do you think those guys wind up in double plays? And that’s just a secondary consideration. A double or a homerun gets you or someone else in a lot faster and more frequently than a walk. You need both types or you have to players that are a combo of both. Pretty hard to find a whole team of guys who can do both.
badco44
Would someone please pull the freeking trigger already … gotta get a free agent do by date…. please
RedRooster
Hedges >>>>>> Plawecki
bencole
redrooster completely agree, but can’t be a major piece for Kluber. Cleveland can get that sort of an upgrade without dealing Kluber, or in addition to and getting way more return value.
Swinging Friars
If Hedges were the centerpiece Cincinnati would not be involved
bencole
Uh… Cincinnati would be the one getting Kluber
YourDaddy
@bencole How? Just saying it over and over does not make it so.
bencole
See directly below on Hedges, that’s how. See Priggs comments. I cannot believe I am hearing that people would think Hedges could be a headliner for Corey Kluber…. is that what we’ve come to here? I agree that Hedges is a bit of an upgrade from what they have, unless Haase hits like he did in the minors, but they can just sign a guy for $3-$4 million a year to do that and not trade their Cy Young contending pitcher. You cannot acquire an ace for your spare parts.
RedRooster
Really? What catcher is available in free agency for $3-4m who can play defense like Hedges does?
Priggs89
0.9 fWAR in over 900 plate appearances. If they’re looking for an upgrade, they should aim a heck of a lot higher than Hedges.
bencole
Yup, good defense, but what Priggs said
Priggs89
His defense doesn’t even rate out that well. According to Fangraphs. out of the 37 catchers with at least 250 at-bats last year, he had the 23rd best Def rating – Plawecki was 28th… He’s probably better than that (at least has the reputation of being better than that), but he’s not even close to being elite on either side of the ball statistically.
YourDaddy
@priggs WAR does not include pitch framing, blocking, and it does not include game calling. If you are going to use WAR to compare catchers you are just going to look ill-informed. There are no defensive metrics that take into account the 3 most important things catchers do behind the plate. So try again.
YourDaddy
Elite defense –
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?c…
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?c…
And that still doesn’t include how well he calls a game. Just all the typical defensive stuff plus pitch framing and blocking.
YourDaddy
Hedges would be 21 points of BA, 50 points of SLG, and 26 points of OPS better than anyone on the Indians at catcher. He did that while playing in a ballpark that kills BA and power. With the elite defense the Indians would be getting with the better bat, he is light years ahead of Plawecki and Perez.
SuperSinker
I think the general consensus appears to be that Hedges is not that attractive insofar as it relates to a return for Kluber. I think most folks would want significantly more, and I think they’re right.
Ivan Gomez
How about Morejon, renfroe and Top 15 prospect from cincy to Cleveland and Quantrill and Kluber to Cincinnati. Padres get Senzel and AA prospect from any of the two.
Priggs89
If the Reds offered India, Gutierrez, and Schebler for Tatis Jr., would you take it? That’s pretty much the equivalent of what you’re offering for Senzel (not to mention the top 15 prospect you want them to include as well).
YourDaddy
@priggs I have no horse in this race. From an impartial viewpoint, this is how things stack up.
Senzel (60 FV and #6 overall) is not as good as Tatis (70 FV and #2 overall). Not close.
Schebler (.777 OPS/106 OPS+/17 HR) is not as good as Renfroe (.805 OPS/119 OPS+/26 HR). Not close.
Morejon (55FV and #46 overall) is better than anyone else you mentioned. India (55 FV and #51 overall),
Gutierrez not in top 100 and not better than anyone in the Padres top 20. He struggled to a 4.35 ERA in AA at 23.
Those trade proposals are not close.
bencole
Agreed they are not close… who has Morejon at a 55 FV though?
redsfan54
Lmao senzel not as good as tatis. Lmao
YourDaddy
Padres are going to want a whole lot more than an unproven prospect for that package. Even Cash doesn’t talk them out of all of that for a 60FV prospect and he is the best GM in the game.
SuperSinker
You spelt Andrew Friedman wrong
san diego4life
Here we go again with trades involving my padres and nothing is close to being done
Carrington Spensor
lol
Weren’t the Padres supposed to get Syndergaard in a 3-way deal?
So the Reds get a Cy Young guy, but they don’t have to give up their top prospect? And the Padres don’t have to give up their top prospects? And the Indians give up the Cy Young guy for a CF not as good as the one they already have, and a Catcher like the 2 too they already have?
Ahhh, the disclaimer:
“…..Neither is it clear how serious talks are; Lin does emphasize, though, that no deal is close at present.”
When is a story not a story?
Slow click day.
Bernie's Dander
Total clickbait article indeed.
sufferforsnakes
Tick tick tick…….
nymetsking
I know. Spring Training starts tomorrow. Oh wait, it’s JANUARY 14.
Bald Vinny
What year? WHAT YEAR??
sufferforsnakes
I’m ready to get in my car and drive to Goodyear right now.
stymeedone
Trying to figure out what Cleveland is doing, makes my brain hurt.
gotothevideotape
Sty, try understanding
Cashman, your brain will fall
out.
Core4
Cashman is busy putting finishing touches on a 100win team. Don’t know how in the world anything hes done has given u a headache? He’s been brilliant
123redsox
Too many pieces and promises. Doesn’t make any sense. He already said Tulo is the ss till Didi is back and Torres at second and he goes out and gets DJ? Makes no sense
dust44
Utility and insurance Tulo can’t go everyday. It’s not real hard to figure out my guy
Wahoo What a Finish!
Obviously they are….
If you look at it….
They’re attempting to…..
Yeah I have nothing. The most nonsensical offseason in recent memory.
PhilliesFan012
Let’s see the trade scenarios! Come on!
ksoze
Just smoke, no fire
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
Wise man once said “where there’s smoke there’s usually fire.”
joedirte4life
Smokey the Bear?
sufferforsnakes
Beavis?
Swinging Friars
Are the Indians sending smoke signals?
redsfan54
Involving Corey Kluber? No, you mean involving Nick Senzel. And no I’ll pass.
bigredsfan41017
They have to give up talent to get talent and you don’t know how Senzel will recover from surgery!
DjRed
Nick Senzel will be a red for a very long time. Trammel could be the reds chip and perhaps another top 3-4 pitching prospect.
debubba
This is how it will work. Kershaw gets hurt and the dodgers panic. Dodgers trade away the farm to Cleveland mid-season. This would be so like the Dodgers to do!
frankiegxiii
Really? Because I haven’t seen the Dodgers do that since Friedman has been around
Knowthemarket
Have to agree with Frank here. I don’t see the Dodgers ever reacting like this.
debubba
Mark it.
Chicks Dig the Longball
The dodger’s farm is so deep that they could trade away as much as any team and still have a top 10 farm in baseball
redsfan54
Well considering they have the 10th ranked system, I don’t think they could trade away as much as any team and still stay in the top 10……
Braveslifer
I’m sure you all will ridicule me for this, but how about a trade with the Braves? Not sure how many pieces will need to be involved but deal is based on Braves getting Will Myers and Padres getting Teheran and Camargo? Myers contract is an albatross and Camargo has tons of value and Teheran needs a change of scenery. What else needs to happen?
mj-2
Myers for Camargo? How about no from the Braves side
iverbure
The Braves should want Kluber. Why anyone will want Wil Myers is beyond me unless you’re getting a big time discount.
bravos9105
Camargo has actual value. Cheap and good. Myers not so much
Nick P
I think at this point the padres would be happy if the Braves would take Myers for a bag of baseballs before that 22.5 million per year kicks in.
Which, would be pretty smooth. Use him up for the 5 million years and give him away for the 22.5 million. Maybe get a couple mid level prospects if they eat some salary.
But I agree that Myers would be a very nice target for Atlanta.
Braveslifer
Yeah, I’m not saying it works straight up, but Padres would pay down the Myers contract quite a bit starting next year all the while taking Teheran’s entire salary this year. Camargo and Teherancame to mind because the 3B/SP need of the Padres and the possibility Myers May thrive on our roster. I’m Definitely not the GM guy some of you try to be, just looking at fit/need of each team. Some guys on here take things WAY too seriously.
Nick P
I’m all for it except Camargo. Replace him with a guy from AAA or AA and that works.
Braveslifer
Anyone not named Riley? There’s the argument that prospects are just that? I’m curious what is rattling in AA’s mind regarding 3B beyond this year, and whether or not Riley has made a positive impression.
Stig
So the Padres would pay down Meyers contact to trade him for Terherans full contract and a AA guy. Thats 30 million for Terheran and a Aa or AAA. Good trade
Nick P
I wasn’t saying they pay it down. Atlanta has $ to spend, they can afford the full freight or if SD wants a decent prospect, they pay down a little. But not much.
Knowthemarket
I think where you really failed is you did well to supply the Padres need (Camargo as their third basemen) but failed to supply the Braves need (we get Myers and we even lose Teheran, our most durable pitcher who was at least league average last year).
Meyers is worth a lot less than Camargo AND Teheran so perhaps if you modify this it might not seem so imbalanced. Taking money on from Meyers is not enough, not by a long shot. The Braves have a hole in RF but I don’t know that they have good options for the Braves and Camargo is very valuable to the Braves.
Houston We Have A Solution
I’d rather the padres send you yates stammen myers and take back Riley and Wentz instead of paying $$$ on myers
angler
No ridicule – yet – 😉 ….. but i was thinking the Braves should get in on this and make it a 4 team deal. Get Kluber to Atlanta with a solid OF in the deal. Possibly the Reds would enjoy some solid controllable pitching prospects beyond just 2 years. Camargo, Sobotka and Fried are a few of the names i’d imagine would be in it – possibly this is the deal Teheran gets packaged in. No on Myers – want a stronger (defense) OF. I’d prefer to flip Culberson over Camargo and get a light hitting backuip SS with solid D.
Braveslifer
All I was doing was starting a dialogue based on needs/current assets the Braves have. Thanks for playing along. Something has to keep the intrigue up, AA certainly isn’t playing along…
Knowthemarket
So getting Kluber. He is older but he is also an ace and the Indians will charge ace like prices. Normally an ace will be very expensive. However the Indians aren’t as motivated as they we’re at the beginning of the off-season so Kluber is going to cost a bit more.
The Indians want MLB ready talent and that will be difficult for the Braves. Who is the most disposable MLB producer that would actually be worth quite a bit of the value you have to pay back for Kluber?
Knee jerk reaction might be Camargo. However, the Indians are more interested in an out fielder so you bring in the Padres who need a 3B. They should be interested in Camargo because he is a very good third basemen, is young, controllable and cost friendly.
Padres to Indians–Renfroe
Braves to Padres–Camargo
Indians to Braves–Kluber
STOP! Before anyone starts rosting me I know this can’t possible be a a 1-1-1 deal. This is simply a starting point. There is no way the Indians send Kluber for the return of Renfroe.
Additionally, as a Braves fan I really don’t like this deal anyway. Camargo is very vlauable to the Braves right now. Camargo really could turn out to be baseballs best super utility. He gives the Braves line up incredible depth. Imagina an Albies and a Freemen who are NOT exhausted from playing 160 games. Imagine a line up that replaces Freemen for one game with Camargo instead of Lane Adams.
I can’t imagine Indians fans are all that thrilled with the idea of Renfroe no matter what the Padres send to them.
This deal even as a rough draft could be the start of something but it would take a lot more work from all parties involved. Three team deals are always difficult.
hockeyjohn
Read Steve Adams two comments in today’s chat on Renfroe particularly the one made at the end of the chat. Your daddy will have a temper tantrum.
em650r
Cleveland get a outfielder from San Diego and some prospects from Cincinnati
San Diego gets a infielder and some prospects and
Cincinnati gets Kluber
sufferforsnakes
Uh…..no.
MrSeptember
You summarized the article that was just posted, but without any names or specifics. Very helpful.
Michael Chaney
“Some prospects” from Cincinnati could mean anything from Senzel to Shed Long. You gotta be more specific.
justin_gacom
I swear if the Indians settle with Margot
moonlightsgrahams
I think the Padres are still high on Margot. I think Renfroe could be decent in the AL. Neither are probably enough to headline a Kluber deal.
cincyredlegs3219
Is there any chance Suarez could be the third basemen the Padres want?
CJ81
I was surprised not to see his name in the article.
tv 2
I hope not. you get young controllable guys to keep not trade. dont get the reds win now. if they keep top prospects and keep the window open the trades make sense but to go all in one year and lose a window to do it 2 or 3 years that’s crazy. especially since they lost a ton last year.
Soldierofgod619
Suarez was the first guy the padres went after early in the offseason the price was high and expected as Eugenio is very good on a real team friendly contravt.
gocincy
I’d rather trade Senzel than Suarez. Senzel could be a bust, for all we know.
Gambit1193
Imagine you’re Kluber and you’re on a contender and get traded to the Reds or Padres lmao
Rexy
I think that Kluber could see the Indians fading in the next year or 2 and the Padres and Reds rising in that same time frame.
sufferforsnakes
Indians won’t be fading in that time frame, if at all. They have pitching and position players that will make the bigs by then. It’s called reloading.
Rexy
I appreciate you thinking that you are teaching me something with your insight however the rest of the AL Central are only going to get better and the Indians are close to being cash strapped as it is right now. The rest of the AL Central all have a ton of money to spend so I could see Cleveland regressing in the next couple of years. It is called being “insightful” not leading with your heart.
Houston We Have A Solution
The indians pen has a lot of issues at present.
sufferforsnakes
My comment is based on my knowledge of Cleveland’s minor league system, which I follow more closely than the big league club.
Do some research.
jbigz12
Cleveland is t going to be the only dog left in the division. Particularly when Lindor is ready for a payday or FA. You lose Bauer in a year or two and potentially Kluber as well. I don’t know how good you think your minors are but no team stays on top forever and the Indians will be losing serious talent in the next few years. The only upside is the rest of the division sucks and their prospects could flame out as well.
Jeremy Howdyshell
Beyond that their farm system is hot garbage. They have two players with a real chance at being impact players and neither of them are what you could call “can’t miss prospects. When the Indians #3-5 prospects are 50 overall prospects who are still in rookie ball it doesn’t bode well. They have one real outfielder currently. They have nobody who should be an MLB regular at catcher. Their bullpen is probably in the bottom five of all MLB after losing their two best arms. Five of their top 10 prospects won’t be in the majors until after all three of their top pitchers and Francisco Lindor will be gone by free agency. Their only hope of extending their window beyond the next two years is to trade Kluber or Bauer now for top prospects who are MLB ready.
iverbure
Nobody that should be a Mlb starting catcher? Have you people looked at the catching position around baseball? Perez does exactly what Mlb teams want, solid defensively behind the plate. Most teams will live with their catcher hitting .200 because 1. they don’t even look at batting avg at all and 2. They much more concerned about pitch framing, pitch sequencing.
lowtalker1
Padres Drafted him
SanDiegoTom
And traded him for Ryan ludwick
lowtalker1
Don’t remind us
mrkinsm
If the Reds can get Kluber and then shore up CF they’ll be a .500+ team this year.
sameichel
More like 88+ wins
sameichel
If they get Dallas as well they would challenge for best in nl
YakAttack
^this guy….
jbigz12
Is that good though? .500? To get Kluber you cost yourself a significant asset for the future in either senzel or trammell+. You’re set to lose Roark, Wood, Gennett and Puig to FA this year so whatever they give you this year will have to be replaced next year. I just don’t see how it’s all that great. I don’t mind the acquisitions they’ve made so far because it gives the team a chance at comeptiveness without giving up any real impactful future assets but you start trading the top guys in the system for guys like Kluber and I just don’t see that being smart.
iverbure
No way if you’re a fan you aren’t allowed to think beyond one year. All fans care about is if you’re trying to win now. They cry and stomp their feet anytime any franchise tanks. As a team adds to expensives veterans who won’t help the team win at all in reality but it tricks the simpletons into thinking they’re trying to win than it’s ok. That’s until the Allstar break when they realize those players aren’t good and they conveniently forgot their current opinion.
sixpacktwo
More than 500+ fighting for the division. Have everything, except maybe infield ‘D’.
gared2004
From the Reds side, Jesse Winker is likely involved as well. Young controllable outfielder who can really hit.
bravos9105
Who cant play a lick of defense
ksoze
That’s a huge NO. That would make no sense at all for the Reds.
bencole
Why? Where would Winker be going?
Doug
Cashman will be back offering an Andujar-led package if the Indians are truly shopping Kluber.
Chris
I think the Yankees would be better off letting the Padres get him and then offering a package centered around Andujar and Sonny Gray with some close prospects (if only Frazier were healthy).
billysbballz
I have to reply to Chris here. Andujar alone at 23yo should be more then sufficient to get a 33yo pitcher with a ton of innings on his arm and some recent bad post season outings. In fact I wouldn’t even consider that deal as a Yankee fan.
BartoloHRball
Then Yankee fans can jump in and offer Sonny Gray, Ellsbury, & Chance Adams for Kluber…
ps. I didn’t ever see Chris’ post, lol.
ekrog
Seriously??? That’s the equivalent of the Reds offering Desclafani, Kemp and Cody Reed.
Randia
No chance Kluber can barely break even against 500 teams and gets bombed in the post season. he won’t be facing sub.400 teams most of his starts if he pitched in NY.
DO NOT WANT
There is a reason the Indians are willing to move him
Rexy
I would think Suarez would be in play more than Senzel as well. Ultimately, any of the Padres outfielders could be in play in this scenario to go along with one of their 2nd tier pitching prospects as they don’t seem inclined to trade any of their top 5 prospects in any trades, nor should they, short of getting someone like Thor.
tv 2
Suarez is not in play. that would be crazy
Rexy
Crazy like a fox. This is reality not fantasy baseball. If the Reds feel they are getting Kluber and opening up a spot for Senzel, Suarez becomes a little more available.
ksoze
Suarez is the Reds most valuable asset. He would be the last person in play.
Rexy
From everything I’ve ever read, Senzel is their top trade chip and that is why he has been off limits in every discussion. Again this is reality here not fantasy baseball. What the fantasy fans perceive to be a bad deal is completely different from what a MLB front office thinks. Keeping Senzel and all of his years of control and gaining an ace starting pitcher could very easily sway their leaning towards trading Suarez. It doesn’t make sense for the Padres, who by the way have the consensus top farm system in baseball, to continue to add more prospects when they are attempting to ramp up their own winning ways. I could certainly see a trade involving a couple of prospects such as Morejon & Logan Allen being sent along with Renfroe or Franmil Reyes and that being an acceptable haul for Kluber. Flipping Kluber for Suarez isn’t all that far fetched and if Cincy wanted more then the Padres could afford to send another pitching prospect such as Quantrill to appease them.
bencole
If he is their best trade chip, why would that mean he is off limits in every discussion?
ksoze
If the deal is right anyone, and everyone is in play. Suarez > Kluber in value to the Reds.
sameichel
Yep
sixpacktwo
It would be foolish for the Reds to trade Senzel because he slots into 2nd next year for six years. Reds overpay for a free agent and get a “D” for CF and stop until next year.
earmbrister
Rexy, you talk reality vs fantasy and then insist that the Reds will consider trading Suarez.
Ain’t gonna happen.
He’s a young middle of the order stud who’s controlled for years and years on a VERY team friendly contract. Suarez wants to stay in Cincy and therefore signed a below market deal. If they trade him, what are the chances that another Reds’ young star EVER agrees to a team friendly deal?
Suarez is not going anywhere.
lowtalker1
A deal wouldn’t happen then
The padres need a third base and either one from the reds would be the demand
lowtalker1
All top 10 prospects from San Diego are tier one
RedRooster
Jesus. If you are gonna trade for an ace, do it within the next 24 hours. And if you don’t, I don’t wanna hear another freaking word about it. Less talky more do-ey.
gocincy
I might suggest you stop checking MLB Trade Rumors so often. It’s all talk, no do. That’s the point.
bigdaddyt
Why can’t it be a 3 team trade for stroman. Jays need to trade him so bad and the Padres or reds are perfect fits
iverbure
Why do the jays need to trade him so bad? Stroman just got a tattoo of the Toronto skyline so I don’t think it’s Stroman that wants to leave. So why do the jays have to trade him? He’s coming off a era above 5? Why not hold and let him pitch better to establish a better value?
MrSeptember
The tattoo is definitely the biggest factor in this scenario. They should do a separate article on it.
nymetsking
Definitely. Can’t trade the man because he got home city ink.
iverbure
Neither one of you explained why he has to be traded. But keep attempting to be funny.
joeshmoe11
Reds need a top of rotation guy. That’s not Stroman
Nick P
This may get a lot of downvotes but here goes..
Padres get:
Senzel & Winkler from CIN & either Zimmer or Greg Allen from CLE
Indians get:
Hedges, Renfroe, Myers & half (or so) of Myers salary covered
Reds get: Kluber & Jankowski
RedRooster
Padres still have too many OF’s with the trade you suggested. They need SP’s and guys who can play the left side of the infield. That’s it.
Nick P
Yes, but none of them are proven for long stretches, so it’s kind of a “see who pans out” approach.
RedRooster
They are rebuilding. The MO of rebuilding teams is to let your prospects prove themselves. Not to trade for other teams players’ that would block your prospects. Winker and Zimmer aren’t exactly proven either.
tv 2
no one is getting winker and senzel in the same trade
earmbrister
Agreed
Topshelf Nick
I see no reason why Cleveland would do this. Good try but Indians need to receive more if they include Zimmer also
Nick P
That’s why I was thinking maybe Greg Allen since he’d probably take less to get. Although some B level prospects changing hands could balance a little more.
chris mallen
If the Padres offered this deal to the Indians straight up they would say no.
Hedges and Plawecki are basically identical players from an output point of view
– Myers and Renfroe are average at best. Neither of them good enough to headline a trade
– And in this deal you’re requiring the Indians give up two players while getting little to no upside in return.
Teams don’t trade front of the rotation starting pitching for spare parts. They want high potential upside.
sufferforsnakes
Greg Allen is gonna be better than Zimmer. Just watch.
chris mallen
I created an account just to tell you how bad this trade is. It’s not even bad, it makes no sense.
Strike Four
Hedges, Jankowski, Myers, Renfroe is absolutely never getting Senzler, Winkler, Zimmer/Allen that’s an absurdly 1-sided deal for SD.
SD isn’t getting Senzel without giving up Tatis or Gore, that’s just facts.
Swinging Friars
up until that last sentence… yes
Watch Preller pull off the obsurd! Fingers crossed
bencole
I’m not sure I agree with this. First off Paddack may be a better prospect than Gore at this point. Maybe not, but he could certainly be the guy instead. Secondly, the third team makes it possible to not give up Tatis or Gore, and Senzel’s value is down. There’s a lot of risk with theinjury stuff, the vertigo stuff in particular.
You’re right though, the trade offer above is absurd. Those pieces range from average to useless.
jbigz12
AJP might be able to get Senzel without those 2. He has paddack and Urias also. Combined with 4-5 other top arms and a plethora of MLB outfielders and a spare catcher. He has a lot of chips to play with and moving multiple slightly lesser guys to acquire a top prospect at a position of need is exactly what he should be doing.
RedRooster
Urias isn’t available. Padres have no other options at 2B
tv 2
hockeyjohn
Renfroe, Hedges, and Myers with half salary covered would not get you Corey Kluber let alone having Cleveland add Zimmer or Allen. Cleveland has no need for Hedges and Will Myers, with his salary, is a negative assest. You have Cleveland trading the best player in the trade proposal and they don’t even get the second or third best player in the proposal. Take off your Padre glasses, Try again Nick, but Cleveland turns down the deal.
ksoze
No offense, but why would the Reds want Jankowski?
Swinging Friars
Jankowski is an exciting player who can handle CF. Young and cheap too
ksoze
That’s my bad, I didn’t realize mediocre to poor hitting made anyone exciting. The Reds just flat out released Billy Hamilton who could play CF better, and there doesn’t seem to be much of an increase on the offensive side.
Swinging Friars
So you did mean offense
easy there tuff guy
padreforlife
Yea he’s going to be 28 in June not young and can’t hit. Soon as he loses 1 step he’s out of baseball
ksoze
OK you got me. When I see silly things, I get all Hulk Smash sometimes. Nothing personal.
YourDaddy
If you added up the 3 OF that are on the Indians depth chart at LF, CF, and RF right now, they put up about the same WAR that Jankowski did last year. I seriously doubt that he is the kind of CF the Indians are looking for, but #justsayin.
They probably want much more upside. Margot or Renfroe. Margot is younger and plays the more valuable position, so he is probably their target in trade.
Or maybe they would want Jankowski, but also want Reyes. Reyes is Aaron Judge kind of huge so in a few years he is going to need to play 1B or DH, but Santana is only under contract for 2 seasons, so that might work.
Swinging Friars
Jankowski wasn’t a starter last year…
I also believe that Preller could care less which current OF the Indians choose. The return may change but at least 2 guys got to go
Priggs89
So the Padres trade nothing good and get a bunch of value. Got it.
ksoze
no the Padres traded the Famous Cigarette company Hedges, Renfroe, & Myers
getright11
You got the Reds getting hosed.
bencole
Why the Indians want any part of this trade for Kluber. Hedges is a secondary piece who hasn’t hit a ton, Renfroe is terrible and Myers is a bad contract…. for their ace?
Fanof29teams
Let’s do it again for..
Cleveland gets Renfroe,Myers ( more than half of his salary ) pitching prospect from SD , 2 pitching prospect from Cincinnati .
SD gets senzel and Winkler .
Cincinnati gets Kluber and Margot.
hockeyjohn
Will Myers, with his contract, is a negative asset. Cleveland is not taking on a negative asset like Myers or Kemp in a Kluber trade.
RedRooster
@hockeyjohn be careful talking about Wil Myers like that or @outinleftfield will drag you off to the guillotine.
Nick P
Seems like people keep missing the whole “wil myers with salary covered” part
hockeyjohn
It didn’t say salary covered. It said more than half covered. Even at that, I don’t want Myers.
iverbure
Nick p, people seem to forgot why the Padres want to trade Myers. He’s not good and seems to below average defender everywhere. Not to mention now he’s got locker room questions. Adds up to a bunch of risk that’s unnecessary to trade for especially if you’re trading a top of the rotation starter.
Swinging Friars
iverbure – none of that is true
Keep making chit up all you want, Myers may be made of glass but he is certainly not below average at anything
david klein
The Dolan family is worth six billion dollars they really shouldn’t be cutting payroll like they have this offseason.
Ski to Coors
I’ll be shocked if anything comes from this.
Assuming Padres would send a SP prospect to both Cleveland and Cincinnati. Senzel to Padres, Kluber to Reds. Both Reds and Padres have an influx of OF who are best used in platoon or DH and Indians could use some help there.
Swinging Friars
sounds great
bobtillman
It should be stated that Kluber’s options vest automatically if he is traded, per Cot’s,. That’s a HUGE consideration, making it in the 17M a year for 3 years range. I think that if that clause wasn’t in there, Kluber would already be an Astro or a Yankee or a Dodger or a (fill in the blank).
The smart money is betting the Indians win any type deal like this. Smart folks up there in Tribe-land…..not sure the perpetually rebuilding Padres/Reds have FO types that can keep up…..
mrkinsm
That is not what his contract states, below is how it’s structured:
If traded in 2019, his new club must exercise or decline both the 2020 and 2021 options within 3 days of the conclusion of the 2019 World Series.
bobtillman
gotcha
titanic struggle
They aren’t entirely all country bumpkins dummy…I’m sure they’re aware…what a DA comment…
ammiel
wonder if all of this payroll “shaving’ from cleveland (especially if it continues) makes teams like Minnesota/White Sox and Detroit start to think the division is really open again. Cleveland has dealt half of their batting lineup…this division is interesting again!
kimofromkauai
Indians are hard to figure. The division next season is theirs easily but trading Kluber or Bauer away would make any playoff series much harder to win. The trade of ace quality pitching is hard to comprehend.
sufferforsnakes
Which is why it most likely won’t happen. Unless a team gives up their top pieces, the Tribe will keep them, because they have no need to trade either.
ammiel
Easily? I’m not so sure, lets think about who they have let walk or traded. Brantley, Chisenhall, Gomes, Encarnacion, Guyer. Thats a lot of offence…granted Lindor, Ramirez and the rotation are still elite….but if you add say Machado to any team its a massive boost.
sameichel
What machado goes to the whitesox and eloy outperforms vlad jr?
sameichel
If
Randia
Winning a playoff WITH Kluber is hard. His ERA in the last 2 playoffs is nearly 10. Worse than any pitcher in baseball.
Kluber is the reason they’ve lost the playoffs the last two years. He was ROCKED in every start
jacknbd
This makes so much sense for all teams involved. Indians can get cost-controlled major league pieces and prospects from the Padres. One of the Padres catchers would definitely be in play here. Indians get their ace and maybe another prospect from the Padres while San Diego gets their starting 3rd basemen for the next 6-7 years. Padres prospects are the glue that makes this trade possible
Goose
It is feasible, I just think it comes down to what does the Tribe want. Is it a case they get Hedges, Renfroe or Margot and Winker or Schebler, the Reds give Senzel to the Padres and the Reds get Kluber.
I don’t see the Tribe moving Kluber unless Salazar is healthy or they really think or like picking up three young players who can start in the OF and at C now so they can complete now and the long term.
CJ81
Probably way off, but how about:
Reds get Kluber.
Padres get Suarez
Indians get Hunter Greene, Margot, and a Padres top 10-15 prospect.
KD1990
My reds can’t land kluber by just giving up Suarez, as good as he is. The Padres would need to give up one less and the reds one more of the prospects you mentioned maybe
ksoze
One he said the Reds give up Suarez and Hunter Green, Two that’s an insane proposition. I wouldn’t do Suarez straight up for Kluber. Much less adding the #22 MLB prospect to boot.
KD1990
Oh shoot I glanced right over hunter Greene’s name. Yeah no way!
sameichel
Because Suarez is on a team friendly deal for twice as long as Kluber, he worth more than Kluber
CJ81
So one guy says suarez is not enough for kluber, another says he’s too much. Got to be honest, I know his deal is team friendly through his prime, but kluber is relatively cheap too and is a legit top 5 starter in baseball. With Senzel waiting to step right into that spot, I believe the reds would trade suarez in a second for kluber.
joeshmoe11
That’s why Hunter is going to Cleveland in this scenario
JamieMoyer 4
Just trying to think of how this makes sense for all teams involved, especially Cleveland. The answer I keep coming back to is San Diego can leverage the absurd depth of their system to get the top prospect (Senzel), while dealing several very good but not Senzel/Tatis Jr level prospects to Cleveland. This would make sense if Cleveland is trying to avoid putting all eggs into Senzel’s basket.
Cincy gets their ace, Pads consolidate some of their depth into one tippy top guy, Cleveland fills multiple holes cheaply. Add in some prospects to whichever side feels lightest. I can see some logic here.
Fanof29teams
makes sense.
Strike Four
Why does San Diego even need to be in this deal, Senzel for Kluber works.
Swinging Friars
Preller getting chit done. Time to turn quantity into quality
Strike Four
Not happening if he refuses to move his top 5. No one cares about Margot, Jankowski, Myers or Renfroe. They aren’t elite talents but apparently SD fans think they are.
Swinging Friars
I’m pretty sure this article came from writers and not us fans..
And I’m pretty sure the Padres are being asked to dance here not the other way around. Pads have no leverage but are very much interested in consolodating. Someone in Ohio must like the 10-30 guys in the Padres farm. Add in someone like Hedges or Renfroe or both.. And it’s not hard at all to see Senzel ending up in SD for less than Tatis or Gore
sameichel
Are you serious????????? Senzel is worth much more than those guys
Swinging Friars
easy there buddy, sounds like the Padres are just in there to beef things up for the other two. No one is suggesting Senzel for our number 30 prospect
YourDaddy
Senzel is not as good of a prospect as Tatis and not much better than Gore.
The Padres are not looking to trade multiple players and only get a prospect. They were rumored to be looking to trade for Suarez at the Winter Meetings and I am sure that is what they are looking for now.
Since Reds fans think Senzel is so valuable, I am sure that they would be ok with trading Suarez and letting Senzel play.
padreforlife
Really?
hockeyjohn
It will take more than Senzel alone to get Kluber.
sufferforsnakes
Senzel for Kluber? Hahahaha!
Swinging Friars
How far off is it though? Serious question… How much more value than Senzel would be needed? Senzel is everybit the prospect that Tatis Jr is
We might be missing the Padre situation here all together…. Maybe SD is just supplimenting Senzel’s value for something mediocre in return? Like international money or young lotto pick??
YourDaddy
@strikefour Are you serious?
Senzel would be the start of a 4 or 5 for 1 package for Kluber IF the Indians needed a 3B. They don’t.
The entire reason the Padres would need to be involved is that the Reds do not have what the Indians need.
Swinging Friars
This is what I’m getting at….. How much more than Senzel is needed? I think it makes more sense that the Padres are just adding some talent on top of Senzel and looking to sneak away with something like a comp pick
southpaw2153
Padres to any team: ” We want to trade for your best hitter or pitcher, but you’re not getting any of our top prospects. You can, however, have Travis Jankowski or Wil Myers ” lolololol
Strike Four
It’s so boring to have to sit through. And then it becomes about people piling on how bad the offer is. They should make an option for other posters to vote on proposals but block comments on them.
RedRooster
Sounds like the Red Sox from 4/5 years ago.
But hey, if the Padres’ next 4/5 years go anything like the Red Sox’s last 4/5 years you’ll hear no complaints from me.
throwinched10
I could see this if he goes to the Reds. They have two MLB outfielders – Puig and Winker – that would interest the Indians.
I’m not sure what the Padres angle is…
sameichel
Winker is going nowhere, he likely more of limits than even hunter Greene
YourDaddy
Puig is a FA after the season. Why would the Indians want him?
RedRooster
Because they are trying to win a championship in 2019 and Puig isn’t a free agent until after 2019
YourDaddy
And then he is gone. Obviously the Indians are not interested in Puig or the Padres would not be involved in the trade rumor at all.
RedRooster
indians need outfielders, Puig is an outfielder. Him being a rental limits his value somewhat but considering that the Indians are supposed to contend this year I can’t see them having zero interest in the guy.
KD1990
Not that i want kluber as a reds fan with his age and salary and having to give up senzel, (would for Suarez tho after much hesitation) but what about something like this:
Reds get: Kluber & 1 top 15 pitching prospect (likely from padres) and/or ~3 mil from Indians
Padres get: Senzel
Indians get: 1 of Padres top pitching prospects, 1 of catching prospects (not best), and 1 of Cincinnati’s outfielders like schebler (please not winker!)
That way cincy gives up senzel and an outfielder, SD gives up 3 prospects, and the Indians give up kluber and a few mil in cash to help
joepanikatthedisco
Would the padres give up 2 top pitching prospects for Senzel though? They need pitching as much as 3B going forward and it’s easier to plug a hole at third by signing a Free Agent than in the rotation.
joepanikatthedisco
Indians will want Winker. This is a win-now team who won’t deal Kluber without some kind of immediate return. Maybe even Puig plus prospects
KD1990
Puig is not going to be involved. The reds reunited him with his hitting coach in our ballpark for a reason. The Indians want team controlled assets as well, not guys with expiring contracts. This will be interesting though!
hockeyjohn
I am ok with the Indians getting a top pitching prospect if I could pick the one from San Diego, but a catching prospect and Schebler brings me to say no to that trade. If they are going to trade Kluber, they need to get an outfielder that is much better than Schebler. Also, I don’t see the need for Cleveland to need to get a catching prospect in this deal.
KD1990
Yeah I guess I was going off what I had been seeing about the Indians wanting a catcher as well as outfielders. I know itd take more than schebler, I just don’t want to see winker or our prospect trammel go haha.i just know SD isn’t considering losing their top 3 prospect studs
YourDaddy
Schebler = Jankowski in WAR. I don’t think the Indians want either one of those players as the only OF in the trade.
dust44
Pads-Senzel and 2 prospects from the Indians
Reds-Kluber
Indians-Winker, Margot and a pitching prospect from Pads.
Doesn’t look like a clear fit for the pads or Indians. But that’s what I heard thrown around on Dayton Sports talk radio today after work.
Priggs89
Is the pitching prospect Gore? Otherwise that’s horrible trade for the Indians.
JCM11
Senzel and Winker is too much for the Reds to give up. Senzel, Schebler, and maybe a B prospect.would be about right.
KD1990
That’s what i was saying. It’s all about what each team is receiving!
YourDaddy
For Kluber? You are truly delusional.
hockeyjohn
The Indians would give up Kluber and 2 prospects. I don’t think so.
jvent
Forget the reds put the Mets in that 3 team:
Mets get Bauer,Margot and a lefty rp
Padres get Frazier,Peterson and Greg Allen
Cleveland gets Nimmo and Lagares and prospects from the padres
$$ the Mets save they sign Pollack
Mets rotation: deGrom,Syn,Bauer,Matz and Wheeler
Mets OF Margot,pollack and Conforto
Inf; Alonso,Cano,Rosario,Lowrie and Ramos
harmoney101575
METS SUCK!
Gfee0907
Padres flip Kluber to Yankees for Andujar?
JCM11
Senzel is a better fit for SD as he doesn’t rely on power for most of his offensive value and can actually field his position.
BartoloHRball
So…the Padres get a DH-only player, while playing in the NL…AND they still have Wil Meyers who is not exactly a wiz with his glove. Sure. Makes sense.
Gfee0907
Meyers is not playing 3rd base this year. Get over comparing him to ANY 3rd baseman going forward. If Andujar steps up even a little defensively this year, is he not a major improvement???
harmoney101575
DUMB ASS YANKEE FAN LMAO
Randia
Not interested in Kluber. The Yankees want pitchers that can WIN in the playoffs not Lose. Bauer is of interest not Kluber
Soldierofgod619
CIN gets Kluber
SD gets Senzel
CLE gets Morejon,Baez,Potts,Nix,Renfroe,Erlin,Gutierez(#8 CIN prospect)
jrussell92024
Yeah.
dematteo1982
Indians get: Margot,Winkler,Lucchesi and Guitierez
Padres get: Senzel,Valera and Civale
Reds get: Kluber and Espinoza
Baller4mlb
The Indians get Henry Winkler? Aaaaeeee!!
titanic struggle
The Reds are NOT trading Henry…not a chance…lmao!!
hockeyjohn
That package would not be worth Kluber plus two prospects.
Saint Chris
No way possible the Reds give up Senzel and Winker. Kluber is valuable, certainly, but he’s not worth 12 years of team control of two likely all-stars.
sufferforsnakes
Valera is going nowhere. Tribe brass loves him.
believeland
That trade doesn’t get Kluber, let alone Kluber and prospects.
ksoze
If the Reds were willing to Trade Senzel, there would be no need for the Padres.
ekrog
Bing bing bing! That’s why it’s clear it’s Suarez being discussed.
YourDaddy
Why would the Indians trade for Senzel at all? They have Ramirez at 3B.
Houston We Have A Solution
Reds get Kluber and possibly Kipnis
Padres get Senzel and possibly kipnis
Indians get what?
timewalk42
Keep Kluber and win trade Kluber and suck
Soldierofgod619
CIN gets Kluber
SD gets Suarez
CLE gets Paddack,Baez,Lauer,Margot
EndinStealth
Funny because the Padres were part of a three team trade that traded him away.
ScottRolen
“Dennis Lin (@dennistlin). Padres reporter for The Athletic”
You win the prize. This was a snarky comment by Dennis Lin. There is no trade discussion involving the Pares and Kluber.
Iago407
Given the Whitesox rotation and the fact that not all prospects pan out, would something like Robert, Dunning and Rutherford for Kluber make sense for either team? Cleveland gets 3 top 100 prospects including one of the Sox top 5. Two outfielders and a pitcher. Sox get an ace, but one with some age on him, but they still keep Eloy, Kopech, Cease and Madrigal.
Too much for the Sox to give up or not enough?
Priggs89
Way too much for the Sox at this point. They need to let these guys develop more and see what they have before making moves for older players like Kluber. Plus, they already paid Robert waaaay too much money to move him this quickly.
Iago407
Yeah, that’s kinda the way I was leaning as well. Good points all around. I just worry that with Giolito not looking so great, Kopech injured and Lopez looking okay, I suppose, that between those three, Cease, Dunning, etc, the Sox might not have as much in the way of rotation depth as fans might have thought previously, but it’s almost assuredly too easy to tell.
I wonder if there’s a Sox/Tribe deal that would make sense, regardless of Kluber’s age, or would Bauer perhaps make more sense?
hockeyjohn
Cleveland is looking for MLB ready talent as part of the trade as they are looking for help in 2019 and beyond. They are not looking for just prospects.
believeland
There is no possible trade in which Kluber goes to the White Sox.
Any AL team will have to pay significantly more, having to face him in the playoffs, and any AL Central team can just skip calling.
terry g
I honestly don’t see a three way trade between these 3 teams.
jdgoat
The Indians are the biggest embarrassment for a team trying to “compete”. Why go for it when you have a clear route to the division and postseason (no other team in baseball can say that) when you can dismantle your team instead?
hockeyjohn
Cleveland is a small market team that has had record high payroll the last two years, Add to that raises for players like Lindor and Bauer and others. The goal of trading a starting pitcher is to use a strength to repair a weakness, They hope to get a package that can help make the team better in 2019 and beyond.
Teator
It’s a tough spot. As it stands, the window is 2 years. Then it’s time to dismantle the team. They can’t let Lindor walk for nothing in ’21 so he’ll be traded. Ramirez will go the next year. Carrasco will be done or traded in ’22 as well. They either roll the dice now or settle for playoff births and hope they get hot to win a WS.
Nuke LaLoosh
Only reason Cleveland explorering kluber trade because Lindor ultimatum? Get rid of him or no extension? I don’t get it. Why?
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Why? Because Cleveland has some of the worst ownership in all of sports. Their front office is bright and nimble, but Dolan is an embarrassment to even Tampa, Miami, and Pittsburgh. So here we are. Sell off all of the crown jewels to save some $$$.
sameichel
Taylor Trammell to padres, Matt kemp and a couple padres players to Indians
leftcoaster
Wasted effort. Kluber will be a Dodger on opening day.
Rightout
Kluber is going nowhere unless a team gives up there top 3 prospects…..indians just playing around with teams…very funny to watch …plus these writers are braindead on some of there reporting…..
sdpadsfan11
Padres trade Morejon, Margot, Hedges, and Munoz to the Indians for Kluber.
Padres flip Kluber to the Reds for Suarez and a prospect.
Saint Chris
Everyone seems to think this trade involves Nick Senzel, but Preller has been trying to pry Eugenio Suarez from the Reds for 2 years. Suarez is one of the leagues better 3b and signed a relatively team-friendly extension last off season. My guess is this: Reds give up Suarez to SD for Kluber and start Senzel at 3b. Padres send one or two of their many outfielders and, likely, a few nice prospects to Cle for Kluber.
sameichel
As a reds fan with Suarez under the team friendly deal that he is I would only trade him if I get something in addition to Kluber
Saint Chris
Suarez certainly seems like a core player, someone you would like to build around. Trading him straight up for Kluber would be a tough decision. Kluber is a legit ace, though, someone who makes the rest of the pitching staff better, just with his presence.
ksoze
in this scenario, I’d agree the Reds would want a pitching prospect from SD as well. A Reds blogger floated the idea of Suarez instead of Senzel. I thought it was crazy, and still do, but his had a fun twist. The payroll offset of moving Suarez would still leave the Reds room for Keuchel. Kluber, Keuchel, Wood, Castillo, and Roark would be a very nice rotation.
KD1990
I’d love this scenario and thought this was best cuz Suarez is proven and on that contract. I just didn’t think it was enough but doing this and putting senzel at 3rd would help our reds payroll counteract the kluber contract a bit too
leftcoaster
So the Reds end up with Kluber for only Saurez. Fat chance.
Rightout
Suarez,,,For Kluber what world do you live in…lets trade kluber . Try senzel and your next 2 top prospects….back to the real world my friend…..lets trade bauer for a couple back up catchers and another guy that has one year left before he is a free agent….
Brad Connelly
Reds throw in Kemp to Cleveland to platoon or DH?
sameichel
That’s what I was thinking
sameichel
Indians have publicly wanted Myers to play first
hockeyjohn
Cleveland has Carlos Santana and Jake Bauers for first base. They do not need Will Myers and is negative contract. Bauers is a solid prospect that is very good at 1B and they have Santana. San Diego can keep Myers.
hockeyjohn
I live in Ohio and I have never heard that mentioned that the Indians want Myers for first base. Provide link.
mrkinsm
Yep, I could see Kemp in some bigger deal going to CLE along with cash from Cincinnati. That puts Winker back in the starting spot for CIN.
It’s all the other pieces that are too hard to figure.
Saint Chris
I strongly believe Senzel is completely off the table in any trade negotiations. It was reported earlier in the off-season that a package centered upon Taylor Trammel would be enough to get Kluber from the Indians. If the Reds could have gotten Kluber with Trammel as the centerpiece 2 months ago, they’re certainly not suddenly going to give up Senzel in a Kluber trade now. And any talk of Winker AND Senzel is ridiculous.
sameichel
Exactly
titanic struggle
Thank you…Senzel and Winker shouldn’t ever be mentioned together in this deal. A comment about Suarez. love the guy and love his contract, but after reaching 30 fingers last year he was NOT good in September. I think maybe some of the brass felt like he may have mailed in the last month of the season. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see him moved in the right deal…
los_leebos
CLE get Franmil Reyes and Paddack from Pads, Winker from Reds
Padres get Suarez or Senzel from Reds (whoever is more highly valued, not quite sure)
Reds get Kluber from CLE, and Morejon from Pads
Pads clear OF logjam, get their 3B, and give up two top-5 SP prospects, but still have Allen, Baez, Gore, and all their near-MLB SPs, CLE get a cheap controllable DH-able OF and another conventional OF, with some minors pitching depth. Reds get Kluber, who you basically have to trade away the farm to get anyway, and a long-term SP prospect Seems like the Pads would need more here in return for what they’re giving up, (does CLE or CIN have any 2nd tier prospects of note?) but i think the other two are happy in this scenario. Thoughts?
sameichel
Matt kemp and a low prospect instead of winker and you got a deal
Swinging Friars
I’d be willing to give up too much for Suarez. Would hope that only one of our top young arms ends up in there though.
Saint Chris
Reds would not give up Senzel and Winker for Kluber. If they could unload the Kemp contract and gain a true centerfielder, it’s possible, but Senzel and Winker for Kluber straight up is laughable and will never happen. And I think the world of Kluber.
YourDaddy
Padres paid $22 million for Morejon, $11 million signing bonus and $11 million fine. I doubt that they would include him in any trade. Their farm system is so deep its doubtful that they have to. Suarez is a proven commodity and signed a long term contract for team friendly numbers. He has a much higher value than Senzel.
RedRooster
Sunk cost. Morejon isn’t even regarded as the best prospect from their 2016 international spending spree on most Padre-centric boards anymore. That would be Luis Patiño.
YourDaddy
Morejon is ranked higher on every prospect list. Why would Patino be regarded as a better prospect?
RedRooster
A lot of people who actively follow the Padres’ farm system like Patiño better. We’ll see who ranks higher a year from now.
The Krukker
Senzel wouldn’t be in this trade. Trammell is the guy everyone seems to be targeting this offseason. Winker is a great piece too. This wouldn’t be the full trade, but if there’s legs to it a good base would be:
Cin: Kluber
SD: Trammell/Winker
Cle: Myers, Margot, Trammell/Winker, and cash
SD would need other pieces and there would be other players elsewhere, but this is more realistic.
sameichel
Winker shouldn’t be involved either, he is our starting left fielder with Matt kemp or schebler should be in the trade
The Krukker
Fair, but it;s gonna take a lot to get Kluber and Cle/SD aren’t going to just take garbage.
Saint Chris
Winker has to be a target for Cleveland. He is defensively challenged, but he has completely raked at every level.
ksoze
I am pretty sure thats why he doesn’t want to trade Winker. “If there’s one thing the Wink can do it hit” I maybe slightly misquoting, but that was a quote from Winker a couple of years ago.
sameichel
I remember that quote that sounds pretty much right
sameichel
Schebler could be a target for them as well
YourDaddy
Realistic is
Kluber and Clements to the Reds
Margot, Quantrill, Allen (catcher), Stammen from the Padres and Mella from the Reds to Indians
Suarez to the Padres
Maybe Reyes and Jankowski, Quantrill, Allen, and Stammen from the Padres and Mella from the Reds to the Indians, although the Padres would be giving up the most WAR in that trade and that does not include anything Quantrill or Allen produces.
hockeyjohn
Realistic to you maybe not to me. The Indians have a catching prospect that meets the Indians needs better than Allen. Eric Haase has a better arm and fielder than Allen. MLB Pipeline favors Allen as a hit – 45 to 40. They favor Haase power 55 to 50, Arm 55 to 50, and field 50 to 45. The Indians would not be interested in Allen the catcher.
The problem with trading with the Padres is that many of your MLB outfielders have underperformed their potential and have lost value. Margot and Renfroe have not lived up to their hype. Therefore, you are going to have to pay more in prospects for Kluber. Add Yates replacing Stammen. Add Allen the pitcher for Allen the Catcher. Add another better pitching prospect for Quantrill and maybe that might do it. Remember that the Indians do not have to trade Corey Kluber. It is going to take a great deal for them to do it.
ksoze
One top rated 3B hasn’t been brought up yet. Jonathan India the #51 prospect in baseball, and would become SD’s top 3B prospect. I am not saying the Reds could trade India alone for Kluber, but the story states the Reds don’t want to trade Senzel, and the idea of trading Suarez is barely worth discussing.
Saint Chris
India is a valuble prospect, but he’s a few years out from the MLB level. Both the Padres and Indians want help right away. You’re right, though: I’m not sure if the Reds would trade Suarez straight up for Kluber.
YourDaddy
I know the Indians would not trade Kluber straight up for Suarez. Kluber is much, much more valuable than Suarez. Double the WAR over past 3 seasons. Projected to get double the WAR over the next 3.
sameichel
I was going to bring him up as well the only problem is he is probably two years away
sameichel
For the padres
ksoze
Right, but I don’t think the Padres are truly expecting to contend in 19, my guess is more like early 20’s 21 or 22 most probably. Once their top prospects make it to the Majors.
vottomanempire
It’s not Senzel, it’s Suarez SD wants.
CIN: Kluber
SD: Suarez
CLE: Margot, Renfroe, SP Prospect
Reds Lineup:
Peraza
Winker
Votto
Puig
Kemp
Gennett
Senzel
Barnhart
Rotation:
Kluber
Wood
Castillo
DeSclafani
Roark
Bullpen:
Lorenzen
Garrett
Hernandez
Hughes
Iglesias
That’s definitely a contender.
sameichel
Yep
imindless
Padres trying to fleece someone by being involved in these 3 team trades yet not involving anything of substance lol. Padres are a young team trying to trade for other young talent without giving any up….this wont lead anywhere. Cleveland wants chris sale type return for an aging pitcher than 5 years older than sale was nothing is gonna happen unless cleveland is realistic.
Kev2040
I guess I’ll play armchair gm:
CIN gets:
Corey Kluber from CLE
Tyler Naquin from CLE
$$ from SAD
Comp Bal pick from SAD (pick 74)
SAD gets:
Scott Schebler from CIN
Shed Long from CIN
Jason Kipnis from CLE
CLE gets:
Scooter Gennett from CIN
Matt Wisler from CIN
Tony Santillan from CIN
Wil Myers from SAD
It’s definitely an overpayment for the Reds part, but it’s what ya got to do to receive the best piece in the deal & a “first round” pick. They’d also add long term OF depth in Naquin. I believe the Reds then replace Schebler by signing Pollock to a 2 yr deal. Win!
Schebler moves to LF for Padres (instead of CF for Reds), and replace Myers. Indians and Padres would give Kipnis a chance to play everyday by shipping him west, & compete for 2b gig with Kinsler (the other fills the void in the hot corner). Padres also add another close-to-ready infielder in Shed Long to come in and replace Kipnis or Kinsler. (Tatis/Urias compete for SS. The other lands the hot corner spot!) Win!
Indians gets 2 young guys to help their run now, in Myers & Gennett, while filling their void in the OF & upgrading at 2b (over Kipnis). On top of that they’d add depth with a high upside arm in Matt Wisler. And still receive a top prospect in the process, in Santillan. Win!
Kev2040
Actually, Matt Wisler should probably be sent to San Diego instead of Cleveland. (Or the Reds lose the comp balance pick from the Padres, in my above statement, and not include Wisler in the deal at all)
sameichel
Schebler should probably go to the Indians in this scenario since they are looking for an outfielder
Kev2040
They’d be getting Wil Myers from SAD in my proposed deal. Upgrade over Schebler. Enticing for SAD though to replace Myers with Schebler because there’s still upside, and he can play all 3 OF positions. Also, way cheaper.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland would not do this as Wil Myers has an outrageous high contract and is a negative asset, Cleveland is not going to by over 20 million a year for 3 years for Will Myers. Gennett has only one year of control and would not interest the Indians as a Kluber trade needs to help now and in the future. Sorry your trade does not work for the Indians. The Padres are looking for a third basemen as well and their is not one for them in this trade. The only benefit that the Padres get in this offer is getting rid of Myers. I see the Padres also rejecting this deal.
RedRooster
Same thing I said earlier goes for CLE as well. Either trade Kluber within the next 24 hours or explicitly say “We’re not trading Kluber.” I’m getting sick of hearing about him.
sufferforsnakes
I’m done commenting on this thread. Ideas have become mentally unstable.
Dbird777
I like San Diego’s brass’ brass. They laughably stole Tatis for Shields and now they think they can get everybody’s top prospect. All while refusing to even deal any of their top 5.
They need to come down, face reality and realize that It’s not going to happen again. They just don’t have the ML pieces to entice anyone. Margot is nothing. Hedges is little more than that. And if they’re trying to be a contender, they’re not giving up Myers.
As for my fellow Reds fans on here hoping Schebler will be enough in trade, that is not as laughable, but still funny. Suarez is staying. Senzel is staying.
Fun trade talk, but this one’s not going anywhere. The Reds are either dealing with Cleveland straight up or it’s not likely to happen.
Dbird777
As for Cleveland, they can have one of Winker/Trammell, one of Long/India and one of Siri/Siani. That’s 3 pretty damn good prospects for Kluber.
That’s as good a deal as they’re going to see from any other team. Period. They don’t want it, then they don’t want it.
Luke Strong
CLE is insane to even consider trading Kluber. Prospects for an ace when your team is contending for the AL central while everyone else in the division is mailing it in… this is CLE ownership being a cheapskate, plain and simple.
Dbird777
Cleveland has a glut of starting pitching. And they know they’re going to walk to the Central title, regardless. But they also know that when they get to the playoffs, they’re going to get absolutely annihilated.
Me, personally, I’m hanging banners for WS titles, not division titles. Cleveland wants to get back to the WS, then it’s time to trade for the future.
Luke Strong
Dbird777 Not true… the playoffs are too small of a sample size, either team could easily win if things went more right than wrong for them. The most important thing any MLB team can do is reach the post-season. Once they’re in, they’ve got a shot. Any given day, anything can happen and anyone can be the star.
CLE should be committing substantially to this season… the Central is theirs to lose and such a loss would be devastating, as it would turn the chances of winning a championship to 0%. You can cite their depth all you want, but you don’t give up a true ace in the prime of his career who has 3 more years of team control… unless of course they have inside information about him that wouldn’t present at a physical… position players are a dime a dozen, but there are only a handful of true ace’s of Kluber’s caliber.
Randia
How is Kluber an ace of he gets rocked every time he starts in the playoffs? Or if 80 percent of his wins are against teams with 400 winning percentage. That is not an ace in anyone’s book and is why Cleveland can’t find a deal.
YourDaddy
Cleveland is not looking for prospects for Kluber. They are looking for multiple MLB pieces. An MLB starting CF, bullpen help, a backup catcher, and a MLB ready pitching prospect. At least that. They get better in 3 areas of need.
Padres r knocking on the door
The Padres can get this done without Cleveland. Preller will have to back off the “none of the top 5” though. 1. Gore, Morejon , Qauntrill
2. Paddack, Mejia, Baez
RedRooster
No, Senzel is not that much better than Gore or Mejia to also warrant giving up Morejon or Paddack
Dbird777
We’re not interested. We have good pitching coming up through the minors, and we’ll have even more money to spend on proven ML pitching in free agency next season. Senzel, Suarez, Votto, Winker, Trammell, we’re going to have one stacked ass lineup for years.
RedRooster
Reds still won’t contend for the next 10 years. Even on offense Senzel and Trammell haven’t proven anything yet and Votto is only going to get worse from here. Winker, meanwhile, is a DH playing in the NL.
Dbird777
“…still won’t contend for the next ten years.” Thanks for the funniest thing I’ve heard all night. Winker’s defense is fine for LF and he’s going to be one of the best hitters in the NL for years to come.
And Votto’s never going to forget how to be a .300/.430/.+500 guy. First base just prolongs his longevity.
In Senzel, Trammell, and other good hitters we’ve got coming up through the minors, I trust. There’s a reason so many teams are asking for them in trade. Add Suarez, Peraza and Scooter and I’ll put that lineup against the Cards and Cubs any day.
RedRooster
Winker’s defense is atrocious. He didn’t even produce 1 WAR in 2017 or 2018 despite being very good with the bat.
Votto is already trending down. The eye and plate discipline won’t go away, but the power and speed will. Hard to get on base when you hit a bunch of slow rollers to 2nd base if you aren’t Billy Hamilton or Trea Turner.
Senzel and Trammell are just prospects until the show they can hack it at the big league level. Better prospects than them have busted before.
To say nothing of the Reds’ active effort to butcher their rebuild every chance they get.
Dbird777
Lol. You guys would be the experts on butchering rebuilds. Even if Votto fades, we just slide Nick to first base, and still cover every over position on the diamond with proven young talent and have plenty of money to spend on whatever else we need.
RedRooster
Nah, that’s all you son. How’s that Chapman trade looking for ya? Cueto? Cozart? Harvey? Soon to be Scooter Gennett?
Colorado Red
Change your name to RedsHater.
Votto, is still going to be good for several years, 1000+OPS, maybe not, but still good.
We got Greene, Senzel, Trammel, etc.
The Reds are closer to competing then you think.
JCM11
It’s much more likely Winker or Suarez would move to first. If Senzel is a good enough athlete to try out in CF he won’t be wasted at 1B.
titanic struggle
Save your breath…he’s Captain Negativity…waiting for more shots at the top brass, I think my Uncle Dick may have pushed him down on the playground at some point…
RedRooster
What exactly have Senzel and Trammell proven at the Major League level? Oh yeah, nothing. And then Greene is a reliever who needs Tommy John surgery.
Reds FO will find a way to screw things up. They always do.
YourDaddy
Teams make trades to fill needs that make their teams better.
Indians biggest need? CF & Bullpen
Reds biggest need? SP
Padres biggest need? 3B
So working backwards
Padres get Eugenio Suarez (opens up 3B for Senzel in Cincy)
Reds get Kluber and Clement from the Indians
Indians get Margot, Logan Allen or Quantrill, Austin Allen (MLB ready bat first catcher), and Stammen from the Padres and Mella from the Reds.
Kluber >> Suarez so that is why Mella would be included.
RedRooster
As a Padres fan I do this in a heartbeat, which probably means one or both of the other teams say no.
YourDaddy
Why would they say no? Padres actually get the lowest projected WAR in that deal.
RedRooster
Suarez is also signed to an obscenely team-friendly contract through 2025
Dbird777
“Hey, here’s a whole bunch of guys, who, collectively, their WAR’s add up to more than your player.” Go back to ripping off your buddies in fantasy with that quantity for quality BS. That laughable s**t’s not going to fly IRL.
YourDaddy
Teams are looking to fill needs in trades.
The Indians are looking to get better at multiple positions on their 25 man roster in one trade. They are not looking for prospects a few years away, they are looking for MLB talent or MLB ready prospects.
So, yes cumulative WAR is a part of any trade talk of this sort. But hey, Indians fans don’t even show up at the games so how can we expect them to understand that.
Now looking at the players in particular.
Margot was the #11 overall prospect going into the 2017 season.
Logan Allen is the #76 overall prospect
(Quantrill was the #8 overall draft pick in 2016)
Austin Allen is a MLB ready catcher that hit .290/.351/ .506/.857 with 22 HR in the toughest league to hit in in the minors.
Stammen is a veteran reliever that produced a 2.73 ERA and struck out 10 per 9IP
Mella is a prospect that touches 97-98 with his FB and had a 3.00 ERA in the upper minors in 2018 before pitching a few games as a reliever in the majors.
That is a quality group by any measure.
YourDaddy
@redrooster So you are saying the Reds would say no because Suarez is on a team friendly deal?
RedRooster
Yep
padreforlife
Old relief pitcher, CF who’s done nothing.
Low grade prospects is quality group. This is typical Padre myopic fan get something for nothing trade that would never happen.
ksoze
$ and Time (7 years Suarez) > (Kluber for 3 years)
Moonlight Graham
I’ve been thinking something very similar, except that Cleveland needs an entire outfield–not just a CF.
I agree that Suarez goes to San Diego, perhaps along with a serviceable pitcher such as Tyler Mahle. San Diego and Cincinnati combine to supply Cleveland with a full outfield: Myers, Margot or Cordero, and Matt Kemp. Each team also sends a prospect to Cleveland; San Diego sends a pitcher (I won’t speculate on which one–the Padres have a lot of good ones to offer) and Cincinnati sends Taylor Trammell.
CLE: Myers, Margot/Cordero, Kemp, Trammell, SD pitching prospect
CIN: Kluber
SD: Suarez, Mahle
hockeyjohn
Cleveland can not afford to pay one let alone two of Myers and Kemo who have terribly high salaries. There is NO WAY the Indians would do this. NONE.
ksoze
That might be one of the most insane posts I’ve seen.
Kluber = Suarez, Trammell, Mahle, and Kemp
Colorado Red
As a Reds fan, NO WAY.
I would not trade Suarez for less then the moon.
I doubt Cleveland would trade Kluber for Nick, and I would want more back.
hockeyjohn
The Indians biggest need is corner outfielders and bullpen not center field.. Cleveland has 3 center fielders when Bradley Zimmer returns from injury. The problem is the Padres corner outfielders have flaws. Reyes is likely a DH in the future and the Indians don’t need a DH. Myers cost to much and is not worth his contract. and Renfroe has been disappointing. I showed earlier that the Indians have a better prospect at catcher than Austin Allen. Try again. The Indians would not do this deal.
Hanawi
I don’t think the Reds would trade Suarez straight up for Kluber. He’s probably more untouchable than Senzel, not only because he’s established and signed to an extremely team-friendly deal, but he’s also one of the leaders of the team and very popular. Any trade proposal that includes him is not going to happen. If the Padres wanted him, it would cost them Tatis plus. That’s how untouchable he is for the Reds.
Senzel may work, but I would imagine the Indians wouldn’t do a straight swap, which is why a 3rd team is involved. Maybe the Padres like him enough to do a one for one after they get Kluber. I don’t know the Padres system enough to know what they would have to give up to the Indians and if it would be worth it for them..
Dbird777
Forget it. I value Senzel more than I do Tatis. Nick can play 2b or cf for us if need be.
reds fan 913
There’s no way the Reds deal Senzel.
Cerrano13
If the tribe is trading 3 years of control Corey Kluber the return has to be big. Frammil reyes, Amir Garrett, and a prospect from the reds in the 3-7 range, likely a starting pitcher. This trade will have a lot of pieces but the Indians will have to get players that can impact now and in the future and young talent with years of control is the way to do that. With their starting staff, this is the way to keep their window open.
The pieces may vary but the approach will absolutely be now and the future. Austin hedges/Margot do not play positions of need and would be marginal upgrades at best.
Jock2854
I hope Reds don’t trade Suarez, he’s a proven star, team leader and true reds future, and the reason they score runs where as Senzel is a prospect who is injury prone, 3 issues in a shortened season of 44 games and has never had a MLB start! Don’t make the trade.
dkcsmc1991
The funny thing to see is all the Indian fans, which I am one, complaining if the Indians do not trade Kluber for a combination of MLB ready talent and prospects after he has a less than stellar season. And to those who refer to he Indians tearing it down, that’s not what this is. It’s them simply moving the pieces that are still able to get a great return instead of allowing them to run their career course.
norcalguardiansfan
Less than stellar season? What is your definition of “stellar.” He finished third in the Cy Young.
Friarfaithful117
Another proposal
Padres get: Nick Senzel, Jason Kipnis
Indiana get: Cal Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Eric Lauer, and Hunter Renfroe
Reds get: Corey Kluber
-Padres get their starting 3B
-Indians clear 69.7 million (Roster Resource) get two starters, a good 1B/DH, and a COF.
-Reds get their bonafide ace
The Padres may have to give up a little more but if Cleveland wants contributors for this season something like this should work as a loose framework. A lot would depend on how each organization values their prospects/players specifically. Thoughts?
Hot Chicken
Love Naylor to the Indians. He’s an AL player, and his brother plays in the organization. I also think that Senzel is a good gamble for the Padres, but I could also see the Reds growing more concerned all the time about his ability to stay healthy.
hockeyjohn
The Indians have a young first basemen in Jake Bauers and a prospect Bobby Bradley so I do not see the need for Naylor. Cleveland would need better pitching options than Quantrill and Lauer to give up Kluber. I don’t think Cleveland gets enough to make this deal.
Friarfaithful117
That’s fair, I could see Logan Allen being another possibility but the top guys in the Padres’ system are still in A Ball. I don’t think that the Padres will trade Paddack or Luchessi. Maybe add in another couple relievers (Stammen/Yates). Naylor is a lot better than Bradley though. Bauers played OF for Tampa Bay too.
hockeyjohn what would you propose?
hockeyjohn
MLB Pipeline rates Bradley and Naylor as follows;
Bradley – Hit 45 Power 60 Run 20 Arm 50 Field 45 Overall 50
Naylor – Hit 45 Power 55 Run 40 Arm 50 Field 45 Overall 50.
I don’t see that Naylor is a better prospect than Bradley. Naylor runs better and Bradley has more potential power.
Friarfaiythful117, What people have to remember is that Cleveland does not have to trade Kluber unless they get what they want. I would think it would take one of Renfroe or Reyes (although both don’t excite me) Logan Allen or Lucchessi ( a starter that can replace Kluber now) Yates, and a good prospect Paddack. It won’t be a package of average or below average MLB players and lower level prospects. Remember, Kluber is one of the top pitchers in baseball with 3 years of control. I am not a fan of Reyes, Renfroe, or Margot so the prospects would need to make the package go.
Hedges was mentioned in earlier rumors, but I think that option is dead with the Pawlecki acquisition from the Mets.
Swinging Friars
Why is it the Padres job to fulfill your fantasies?
Especially now that the talk is Kluber going to the Reds??
Friarfaithful117
I am more a proponent of fangraphs which puts Naylor as a Future Value 50 and only a 45 on Bradley. Biggest difference being a 45/55 hit tool for Naylor and only 30/40 on Bradley but his game power is a tick higher.
True Kluber does not need to be moved but the Indians have been pretty intentional about lowering payroll. In this proposal Indians give up about 62.6 million of surplus value over Kluber’s contract and Kipnis negative value (9 million/WAR)
Indians getting: Renfroe, Allen, Yates, and one more pitcher would be palatable enough for me if the Padres end up with Senzel (prospect value of about 55 million)
norcalguardiansfan
Compare Renfoe, Allen and Yates future value to Klubers. You aren’t offering anything even in the neighborhood of enough. This isn’t about fulfilling anyone’s fantasy. It is about the Indians getting what Kluber is worth – look at fangraph’s player value chart. Kluber is #12 in the majors.
If the Padres want Senzel and the Reds want Kluber then they will have to pay a premium price.
Friarfaithful117
Kluber is getting paid significantly though. With normal aging of ~.5 WAR less per season Kluber is worth 63.6 million dollars of surplus value. Yates is making just over 3 million this season and probably 5 million in arbitration next season. WAR of projected 1.3 for next season. Round down to 14.5 million dollars of surplus value over two seasons. Allen as a FV 50 pitcher is 21 million. Renfroe is controllable for five more seasons. Assuming a paltry WAR of 5,!minus arbitration salaries probably equals out to around 15 million dollars of surplus value. Add in one more solid prospect makes it close to Kluber’s value but there is a premium on star players which should push the required return a little higher.
norcalguardiansfan
Fangraphs has Kluber at a projected 16.1 WAR in the next three years. That is a future value of $144 m. His contract is $52.5 . That is a surplus value of $92.4m
You have almost $30m to go.
blogs.fangraphs.com/2018-trade-value-1-to-10/
Friarfaithful117
This year’s updated steamer and depth chart projections only have Kluber projected at 4.8 WAR not the 6.0 WAR. Assuming the normal regression curve that’s
2019: 4.8
2020: 4.3
2021: 3.8
12.9*9= 116.1-52.5= 63.6 million
norcalguardiansfan
Well, I’ll take fangraphs over steamer.
Friarfaithful117
Steamer is used in fangraphs WAR projections. ZiPS (the other component) is just started releasing projections for next season.
norcalguardiansfan
None the less, fangraphs values Kluber more. Look – I’m so damn tired of arguing with Padres fans over this.
Kluber is an elite pitcher. If the Indians trade him for anything less than an elite prospect they are idiots and I’ll go apeshit – as will most Indians fans.
The players you suggest simply won’t do it.
I’m done arguing.
Swinging Friars
Corey Kluber wasn’t a top 50 prospect when they traded for him from the Padres
Maybe the Indians have different skill sets that they look for. Maybe this goes to show that they like taking chances. Maybe it shows that they are open to taking multiple prospects instead of a team’s top guy.
DockEllisDee
as much as I, being a lifelong Reds fan of 40 plus years, would love to see Kluber toe the rubber as a Red, I just don’t see this happening. Maybe as a cincy sports fan I’m a little pessimistic, I don’t know WHY.. Although, as a commenter in a previous thread pointed out, if the Reds FO really wants to go for it, they need to make a splash and get a true #1 horse in the rotation, because now just standing back and looking at them, they, in my eyes project as a .500 team, give or take. The NL Central is a strong, tight division. Who knows, maybe Castillo takes a step forward and becomes a #1 tier SP, while Wood has a rock solid season, but I’m not betting heavy on that.. this could truly be the biggest SP acquisition since they traded for Seaver, and if a small market team can even sniff the possibility of that, well ffs GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!
gared2004
Absolutely. An opportunity like this is rare. Senzel, Schebler, Lorenzen, Mella something along those lines. Cleveland needs OF and relief help. Kluber is the difference between flirting with .500 and being a contender next year. Kluber, Castillo, Wood, Disco, Roark – that is a rotation that you can be proud of. Plus Mahle, Romano, Reed for depth. Plus, I think Santillan will be a #2/#3 type who is on track to make it some time in 2020.
When I look at the framework of this trade I think of it in terms of groupings or pairings. Gotta keep either Senzel or Suarez, 2 of the 3 of Senzel, Winker, & Trammell, 1 of either Winker or Schebler (need regular LH outfield bat). I like Lorenzen, but me makes a quality, versatile asset for trade. Most any prospect from Shed Long on down I am fine with giving up too, but they need more MLB ready pieces.
norcalguardiansfan
The only way this three way deal makes sense is if Tatis ends up in Cleveland. I don’t see why the Padres would need Senzel, otherwise.
And….if this deal happens, the Indians get a ton. Much more than has been suggested in this thread so far. I’m thinking Tatis AND Winker…and maybe a reliever.
Otherwise, I just don’t see this deal happening.
RedRooster
Padres would need Senzel because they don’t have a 3rd baseman.
And Tatis is off the table
norcalguardiansfan
Why? If they have Senzel, why do they need Tatis? Unless they imagine a position change, his only value would be in a trade…..for a great pitcher.
And if I’m the Indians I don’t deal Kluber unless I get a Tatis level talent.
norcalguardiansfan
I also don’t understand why the Padres are involved in this discussion at all. If the Reds are willing to deal Senzel to get Kluber, then why aren’t we dealing only with them?
A lot about this story doesn’t make sense.
csspackler
Senzel plays third base. Tatis is a shortstop … he’s there now and will stay there.
Friarfaithful117
Thanks csspackler
RedRooster
They need Tatis if they trade for Senzel because Tatis plays shortstop and they don’t have a shortstop
believeland
If the Reds are willing to trade Senzel there’s no reason for the Padres to be involved. Him, a bull pen arm, another too prospect, and a lower level guy get it don’t.
RedRooster
Indians already have Ramirez and Lindor on the left side of the infield. Why would they want Senzel?
titanic struggle
Naaa…after al lk of this head bashing, keep Senzel, keep Suarez, don’t get involved in this trade. Williams is right,there is more to come, but I’m not giving up the jewels.. too complicated to be done right…next!
Cliff Burton
From a Reds point of view:
1) Dave Cameron is involved. Stay away. He’s smart.
2)6 years of Senzel is better than 2 of Kluber, who is declining.
Same for Trammell.
Friarfaithful117
Kluber has three years of control, one guaranteed then two team options
Padres2019ha
6 years of an unknown prospect for 3 years of a cy young pitcher w no signs of decline is definitely NOT more valuable. Get a grip dude
RedRooster
This is short-sighted but then again most of your comments are.
#RedsNation
Indians fans please reply
From all accounts the tribe is looking for ML ready OF and BP help and possibly a SP to replace Kluber. What would you think about leaving the Padres out of it.
Reds get Kluber
Indians get winker, Iglesias, Mahle and a lotto ticket. All cost controlled ml ready players.
Reds keep senzel and put him in LF
sportsnut969
I believe if this 3 team deal goes down the Indians would receive Winker , Garrett and Long from the Reds and Gore and Reyes from the Padres.
Padres get Senzel
Reds get Kluber
The Indians get 2 ready corner outfielders with long term control in Winker & Reyes that have had a cup of coffee already at the major league level , a young high level long term control relief pitcher Garrett, a top starting pitching prospect Gore and near ready 2nd base prospect in Long.
#RedsNation
No possible way reds give up all that for a 33 yr old pitcher making 17.5 mil.