11:19am: MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand tweets that the Yankees had offers from multiple teams they’d have accepted for Gray as of last Friday, so if talks with the Reds don’t pan out, those proposals could once again come into play.
Jan. 21, 10:08am: Heyman tweets that there’s some optimism from the Reds that they’ll be able to work out an extension before today’s window closes. However, if the extension doesn’t materialize (and, thus, the currently proposed trade does not go through), the Yankees may “look elsewhere” for a trade partner for Gray.
Jan. 20, 4:56pm: A resolution on a Yankees-Reds trade is not expected tonight, and a deadline on a 72-hour negotiation window between Gray and Cincy is sometime late on Monday, Rosenthal tweets.
11:03am: The Reds are indeed attempting to extend Gray, according to Heyman, who adds the two teams have agreed on a trade package. But whether Gray gets an extension could affect the return for him.
10:37am: It’s possible the Reds are trying to sign Gray to an extension before acquiring him, Rosenthal tweets, though he notes a deal could come together either way.
Jan. 19, 6:08pm: The two sides are “finalizing” the deal, per Heyman, who reports the Yankees will likely receive Long and a draft pick. The Yankees could also land a third piece in the trade, Heyman suggests.
2:31pm: Per Heyman, the Reds would prefer not to include Stephenson in a deal for Gray, and talks now “center around” Long. Stephenson, 22, was the 11th overall selection in the 2015 draft, and has steadily progressed through the Cincinnati farm. In last month’s update, Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs projected the 6’4″ righty as an average regular, lauding his double-plus arm and 60 grade raw power. Long also projects as a regular, though perhaps not at second, where he has “below average hands” and “clunky footwork,” per Fangraphs’ scouting report.
Jan. 19, 9:02am: Expect Gray to be moved sometime this weekend, per Fancred’s Jon Heyman (Twitter link). The Reds and Yankees are inching closer to a deal, with two prospects and a draft pick the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal, however, as the Giants, Brewers, and Braves are still part of the conversation.
Jan. 18, 4:55pm: There are other teams still involved, per Andy Martino of SNY.tv (Twitter link), including at least the Padres and Giants. There have been some discussions of three-team arrangements, Martino also notes.
Jan. 18, 2:33pm: The Reds are “making progress” in their talks with the Yankees regarding veteran righty Sonny Gray, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (via Twitter). It emerged yesterday that the Yanks were nearing a deal involving the starter, though multiple organizations were still said to be involved in talks.
It seems fair now to assume that the Cincinnati club is emerging as a favorite, though it’s certainly too soon to rule out alternatives. The Reds have already added a pair of starters via trade in Tanner Roark and Alex Wood. Like those hurlers, Gray is entering his final season of arbitration eligibility. He’ll earn $7.5MM after agreeing to terms with the Yankees, making him a bit less costly than the other two pitchers.
The potential return remains to be seen, and obviously hasn’t quite been nailed down. Jon Heyman of Fancred reports (Twitter links) that the organizations are still discussing different prospects — second baseman Shed Long and catcher Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return. (That would have to be the Reds’ 2019 competitive balance pick, which is a valuable sandwich-round selection currently slotted in at No. 36 overall.)
If they can wrap up an agreement, the Reds would certainly present quite a different rotation than the ones they have trotted out in recent years. Roark, Wood, and (hypothetically) Gray all have their warts, but each has found plenty of success in the majors. They’d likely join Anthony DeSclafani and hard-throwing Luis Castillo to round out the starting five under new manager David Bell.
It’s notable, of course, that none of Roark, Wood or Gray comes with control rights beyond the ’19 season. The same is also true of recently acquired outfielders Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp. It’s possible that the Reds simply prefer one-year commitments at this time, which would allow them the chance to reevaluate their future needs after the conclusion of the 2019 season.
Hitter friendly park..not the best play for him to go but regardless they definitely are upgrading their club and should be a lot better this season
I think he’ll do fine in GABP. He’s the type of pitcher that can succeed there. I’m also one of those people that believe his 2018 season as a whole was an anomaly. His road splits are indicative of that.
Yankees have a pretty concrete pitching philosophy that works well for them but hopefully for the Reds if they acquire him a different voice can straighten him out. A glance at Fangraphs and it’s pretty clear he changed his repertoire in the Bronx and he crashed and burned. Hoping his old coach can refine him stuff
Yeah, completely agree with you. Seemed like once he got to the Bronx he stopped attacking hitters and would nibble at the corners too much, which led to walks and forced him to throw too many pitches down the middle that wound up getting crushed. That’s what got him in trouble. I think a fresh start with another team would help him rebuild his confidence and turn him back more into the effective pitcher he was in Oakland.
Yeps….I’m really hoping for this trade. I’ve loved both teams since the early 60’s and it makes way too much sense for both sides.
Javier Vasquez and others couldn’t pitch for the Yanks and did well after leaving. It doesn’t fit into the metrics world.
@ joeshmoe11:
Great post!
I was stunned at how badly Rothschild did with the pitchers last year; especially the starting pitchers. All those youngsters he ran through – Jonathan Loaisiga, Luis Cessa, Domingo German, Chance Adams, Justus Sheffield. All got grounded for a bit, then looked ill at ease and totally lost. Same with A.J. Cole as well as Sonny Gray. Initially I put it off to their ability or the pressure of pitching in Yankee Stadium. When I realized that none were becoming serviceable in any capacity, I figured it was Rothschild.
It never occurred to me that they had a hard-and-fast system. Organizations/pitching coaches that build superior staffs have a general philosophy they want pitchers to use as a backdrop. But because pitchers are so different physically – i.e. multiple pitchers can throw the same pitch with the same grip at the same speed, yet it will move differently – I’ve seen the quality pitching coaches allowing for individuals to modify what they’re throwing to be effective. It does seem as if Rothschild wants to do things one way, yet so many of the pitchers can’t do it.
The theory in trading for Gray was that the Yankees would bring out his full potential. The Yankees had 1-1/2 years to work with him, and Gray got worse. I’m putting that on Rothschild unless Gray moves on the next few years and continues regressing. If he does in fact go to the Reds, I’d like to see what Derek Johnson does with him…..the man made Wade Miley an elite pitcher….at least for a year…..lol.
Yeah and Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, Rich Harden, and Trevor Cahill all did much worse after leaving Oakland. Although Tim Hudson and Gio Gonzalez did as well upon leaving. The big question is where does Sonny Gray fall on the number line. As of now he looks more like a Rich Harden than a Tim Hudson.
If you look at his pitch mix he went from throwing fastballs 55% and no cutter in 2017 to 35% FB and 20% cutters. Neither pitch was very good according to pitch values but he’s at least had success with his FB before. His cutter ha always been hammered, which I’d sent he probably stopped using it for a few years. I’m sure it’s too simplistic to say “quit throwing that garbage meatball” but maybe he should quit throwing that garbage meatball..
Far be it from me to bash the Yankees, they’re an unmatched success but sometimes teams try to fit square pegs into round holes.
@ joeshmoe11;
You can go ahead and bash the Yankees – at least as far as starting pitching goes. Their’s cost them the championship last year. Heck, when you have to bring in an out of shape Lance Lynn to rescue your season……
Relief pitching is another thing. Those guys are almost always failed starters that cut their repertoire of pitches from 3-6 to 1-3….then go out and pitch 35-80 innings a year. Hitters adjust to the majority – which is why relief pitchers are the most volatile group of players on a team. The Yankees solve that by bringing in guys with one extremely effective pitch and a few workarounds, while paying them salaries that other teams cannot afford. So far, the Yankees are going into 2019 with 3 upper-tier closers.
that’s incorrect. untimely hitting cost them the series against boston. they had every chance to win that series but couldn’t get a hit when needed.
Impossible to say how Sonny would mesh with Reds.
Gray isn’t even on the color wheel.
Gray isn’t the same pitcher he was when he was with the A’s. Not sure I would want him as a starter.
Might it have been the Sox pitching more than Yanks hitting?
Scarlet and Gray have worked great in Ohio.
Exactly.
He is probably a tweener of them. Hudson was a good pitcher who played for 3 good teams. Harden when healthy was rather dominant but he could never stay on the field for 150 innings. I believe in Gray, but Im not sure he will be the ace he was. A serviceable starter with 15 or 16 wins with 8 to 10 losses with an ERA between 3.75 and 4 and about 160K is my expectation.
A lot of that is true, add Kahnle. Adams & Sheffield struggled in the minors too last year though. German, Cessa & Jonny Lasagna, weren’t regarded as big prospects & AJ Cole was horrible w/the Nats. Chad Green, Holder & Betances have done well with LR. soon they’ll have two pitching coaches anyway! Probably more helpful than two hitting coaches.
Because the Redsox pitches handcuffed the hitters, wake up!
Yes
Want to start this by saying I’m a huge Sonny Gray fan. I’m sure if I look back to his earlier years in Oakland, I was constantly trying to put together pieces to bring him to Boston. That being said, Gray is not the pitcher he once was and this 2 prospects and a draft pick return is way overboard to bring him to GABP. I love his fit with the Padres or back with the A’s, but the Reds are reaching. Gray’s combination of HR/FB, 35.5% hard contact rate, etc point to a guy that will continue to struggle with the longball when he makes mistakes in hitter friendly parks.. FIP and xFIP agree that his 2018 stats should have been better given ballpark / fielding adjustments, but they still put him in over 4.10. He’s going to another hitters ballpark in a division with very few pitcher friendly parks. Most are pretty neutral.
If he can keep the ball down, he can still be a very effective pitcher. But he seems to pay for every mistake he makes these days. He’s not fooling anyone and his rising walk rates mean that guys are doing more damage when they take him deep. He walked nearly 4 per 9 last year. As a Sox fan in NY I saw a lot of Gray last season and man did I lick my chops on days he took the ball and stack FanDuel with power hitters from the other side.
If Boone didn’t hook him so quickly, I think his ERA would be inflated even worse.
Your #6 and #7 prospects for 1 year of a middling starter? No wonder the Reds suck.
Kevin I was thinking the same thing. I 100% wouldn’t give up a top ten prospect for Gray. Under contract for this year only and can walk away after the season. What if the Reds suck but Gray excels? He’s gone and the Reds are out two good prospects. I’m a Yankee fan and would love the trade but if I were the Reds I would stay away. They’d only be bolstering an already strong farm system while taking a player the Yankees don’t want off their hands.
I don’t understand what the Reds are doing. They’ve made all these deals for guys with one year left. They have to surpass a lot of teams much better than they are to make the playoffs
care to retract your stupid comment now???
zip it next time til you get the whole picture because you now look like an idiot
If the Reds suck and Gray excels, he can be traded at the deadline. Shed Long is a good prospect, the problem for the Reds is that he’s both defensively challenged and blocked by 2 or 3 guys in their system.
If you’re referring to comment of the number six and seven it’s hard to blame him for reacting to a false report. This is a rumors site and people comment. We react to speculation. If the speculation is wrong then comments may not apply no need to get upset buddy
He stinks at home no matter where he plays. He will stink in Great American just like he did in the Bronx.
I’m not sure he has much say, if any, in trade destination preferences.
I can’t figure out what the Reds are really trying to do…
They’re trying to at least attempt to compete. Something they haven’t done in a long time.
Win.
I agree. They are giving up legitimate prospects for one year rentals. Yet they still look like a fourth place team. Its kind of like they are sabotaging their own future.
Ah, the proverbial future. The glorious future. The future in perpetuity. Reminds me of the Joe’s Crabshack sign: Free Crabs Tomorrow.
Yet teams who actually do develop their players actually have a future. The Reds are giving up midway. This is going to set them back. The only way the recover from this is if they become spenders. That is not going to happen. They have “maybe” increased their win total 5-8 games. That’s not enough.
Reds have given up superfluous players in low A for 4 major league contributors. Wanna bet who provides more WAR for their new organizations? Puig, Kemp, and Wood for possibly one season each or Gray and Downs who are at least 2-3 years away?
Superfluous so far, but if they actually trade Stephenson, and Long, then it’s actually going to make an impact. We only have Gennett for one more season, so Long slots in naturally there in 2020, and Stephenson will take over for Barnhart in probably 2 years.
Yes, and that war is for ONE season. The Reds are making a mistake, but I guess some need to learn that the hard way.
What future have they sacrificed…they havent dealt any major prospects and their minor league core hasnt even arrived. They can use these guys to deal at the deadline too! Instead of just sitting pat until 2020…they made some very smart moves to get better in 2019 without bogging down future payroll. They were the #7 offense in baseball LAST SEASON…and have done nothing but improve over the winter.
They have a good offense mostly because of the park they play half their games in. Look I get it Reds fans need something anything to be excited about. So why not this. Saying they got guys they can flip at the deadline is dumb. No way they get back what they gave up. At the very best the Reds look like a 3rd place team. If they shock the world then it will be worth it. But I dont see anyway the players they traded away wont haunt them at least a little. Better to have these young guys than retreads that will be there for only one year.
Everyone seems terribly upset about losing Shed Long, the same Shed Long that is defensively challenged–his scouting report literally says he has “clunky feet”– and is currently blocked by at least two players in the Reds organization.
The Reds had zero starting pitching last year save for Luis Castillo. If not trade a few redundant lower-level prospects what else were they supposed to do? Sign Keuchel, Happ, and Morton for a total of 50-60m a year? That’s both not smart and out of their price range.
Some people disagree on the 4th place team now. I think with the ‘O’ and better SP they will be fighting for 2nd.
At the very most the Reds would be third. That’s only if the Cubs, Brewers or Cardinals stumble. All three teams are better than the Reds. The Reds closed the gap, but it’s still there.
with as many 1 year guys are there, you have to assume that if it doesn’t work out they can flip some of them
THANK YOU for making sense. Some peeps just don’t get it and think they know MLB better than the pros.
If his bat was amazing it would be one thing, but he doesn’t look to be tearing up the minors.
Their division (in fact, their whole league) is highly competitive at this point. Look at ATL, WAS, NYM, PHI, CHC, MIL, STL, LAD, and COL (and potentially SD). Every one of these teams is a wild card caliber team. I’m assuming they believe they will be good enough to win their division next year or think they can at least secure a wild card spot and work from there. I don’t have much faith in their odds to make the playoffs, I just don’t think they have good enough hitting and their are so many teams that are better then them.
Every bad team is bad until they aren’t. Look, do I think the Reds make the playoffs in 19, no. Do I think they will in 2020, with the RIGHT moves they can be a legit contender, yes. The young players are maturing, the stud prospects are rising to the top of the organization, getting ready to impact the big league roster.
They have plenty of hitting…it’s been pitching, pitching, pitching that has killed them…
I disagree that they don’t have enough hitting. I strongly believe, if healthy, they will be one of the best hitting teams in the NL, especially if Puig can handle cf. They are likely to have Jesse Winker–you know, the masher who was the early ROY favorite before he was injured–hitting 7th.
Andrew Sears….seriously. “I just don’t think they have good enough hitting”?!?!? No, you just don’t think.
With a new manager and pitching and hitting coaches plus a new GM in charge other than Walt Jocketty, the Reds are trying to get out of last place and contend in the NLC.
Looks pretty simple to me. They’ve had terrible starting pitching and are trading for better starters instead of paying long-term money on the market. They’ve only given up 3 of their top 15 prospects and the dumpster fire that was Homer Bailey. If they don’t compete, they can flip these guys for prospects later. I think it’s a pretty smart strategy.
Sonny Gray is fine anywhere but Yankee Stadium. He literally shut out the Rangers in Texas, a massively hitter-friendly park, on game 162 to send Oakland to the playoffs in 2014.
link to baseball-reference.com
Cool that’s 4 (four) years ago
2014….
Did you really just pull up something 4 years old to support what he will do in 2019?
Most people look at 2018 and assume what he will do in 2019. The fact is, nobody knows.
True, but 2018 is much more relevant than 2014.
Irrelevant is irrelevant. The 2018 season has no more impact on the 2019 season than the 2014 season does. We can guess and project and do all kinds of number wrangling, but when it comes down to it…NO ONE knows how the 2019 season will play out. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Trends are a thing man.
Sounds like something someone who thinks batting avg is important would say.
Yes they are, but they are not an absolute science. They are just a fun guessing game. I liken baseball statistics to psychics. They are fun and enjoyable as long as you realize they are not to be 100% believed as dogma. But once you start thinking an ordinary human being which good observational skills can tell the future, you’ve fallen for the trap.
Nobody knows for sure, of course.
Still, show me what a guy has done in the past, and I’ll give you a pretty good idea what he’ll do in the future.
That’s just wrong. While 2018 is not a perfect predictor of 2019 its surely a better predictor than 2014. As an example in 2015 Matt Harvey had a 271 era and 1.02 whip. Last year he had a 450 era and a 125. whip which do you think is a better predictor of this year.If 2015 is relevant he should be looking at a 25 mill per contract right
I do agree with you guys, he should be fine and I’m actually a fan of the guy, I think he’s one of the better pitchers in baseball. I just know that’s a hitter friendly park and hopefully it doesn’t end up being the another down year for him right before free agency. I hope he can bounce back and get himself paid. Also I like what the Red are trying to do, I know some people question it but at least they are trying to be better. That’s a tough division they are in so not sure how far they can go but I do know they are already better than last year and if they add this guy they’ll be even better.
Hitter-friendly GABP may be, but no ballpark is as drastically hitter-friendly as Yankee Stadium.
Great American Small Park is more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium.
Reds trade a few used golf balls, and a bag of chips for Gray.
More details, please.
Chippo’s? Cow chips? Caesar’s chips?
I agree. It is unfortunate for him. I think he needs to get to the west coast. None of the NL Central parks are going to compliment him very much.
Obviously, you haven’t been to St. Louis.
I havent. But its on my to do list.
i was going to when i was in town but what they charge for tickets was outrageous compared to what I am used to….
A top prospect alone would be a overpay for Gray let alone adding a draft pick too.
I hope the Reds don’t cave in and give up those two top prospects, for a one yr rental it doesn’t make sense.
They will not, Williams is not a fool.
The reds were as bad as their record.. they swept the brewers and Cubs. Not an easy thing to do.
I wonder if the reds forgot who they drafted in 2016 in the same spot they are about to trade away the guy the Yankees wanted first Taylor Trammell
It is, but he doesn’t really have a say in going there. He would in an extension obviously.
yeah, i think he would be a much better bounceback candidate if the giants would have been able to work something out. wish him luck but am skeptical of how he will do in Cincinnati
He will sign with Milwaukee
Since Gray’s not a free agent yet that will have to wait until next offseason.
No, he should not. He should follow Derek Johnson to cincinatti and be part of ownership’s effort to boost attendance to not violate their loan terms. Cin is going to be a team to watch at the trade deadline, so many veteran expiring contracts.
I don’t think you know what’s going on here.
Dumb.
Please end this painful situation
Agreed .. Sonny Gray and the dreadful Antonio Brown saga ..
This would be Cherry on top to a awesome off-season by yanks. Giving there system a nice little boost for Gray, after taking care of business with the ML club already. Love my yanks !
Better not be expecting too much of a boost. He’s not going to get a huge return.
Shed Long and Stephenson alone would be a good get for Gray. All the prospects we gave up for Gray haven’t amounted to squat and both Long and Stephenson still have there prospect appeal , and would help get some prospect position player depth back am9ng the ranks, as the yanks have a pitching heavy prospect load right now. Stephenson has a cannon for a arm and is big guy with a bit of pop and still upside, why Long gives us a well rounded player who can do a bit of everything , and hasent really disappointed on his climb thru the ranks, and don’t hurt he hits lefty,
The reason this team turned around so quickly from a old broken down team that had to many underachieving big contracts to a 100win team was a infusion of young legit prospects. We’ve used the lot well in recent yrs, time to build it upa bit again.
Never give those two up for Gray bad move for the Reds, for a one yr. rental?
They will not. The yanks were looking at either/or Williams would be stupid to trade those two for grey and he is not stupid.
I don’t know what you’re expecting in return for Gray but if I were to guess by inferring tone to your post you are going to be dissapointed.
How is elsbury working out for you?
Terrible, but what exactly does he have to do with Sonny Gray?
Yankees fans attach Ellsbury to nearly every trade they propose. Wouldn’t be shocked to hear a “Gray and Ellsbury for the Reds #3rd, 7th and 10th ranked prospects” proposal.
Lazy take.
No one would say such nonsense…. Except you of course.
Looks like Cincy are en route to building another big red machine from their rotation this season. They could turn some heads and surprise some folks in 2019. I’m pulling for them. The Central is officially stacked.
That’s pretty optimistic
Big red machine lasted a decade
This, whatever it is, will last one season and set them back a few years
Yes. Additionally, the Big Red Machine was far more known for their elite positional players and not as much regarding their starting rotation
Yes that is factual. But what I said was through their rotation. So by way of their pitching it’ll be a machine.
reds pitching still does not scare me. Their hitting sure does though. Good lineup
Since when is a DeSclafani/Castillo/Roark/Wood/and possibly Gray….a “machine” of a rotation? The reds have a ton of mid-back rotation arms and not much else.
I’d say. When a hitter like Jesse Winker is ready and u can’t really find a spot for him, tells ya all u need to know
He’ll be an everyday player at one of the corners If Schebler is still here he platoons with Kemp in the other corner
I completely agree with you’re assessment, however if you let the Reds fan in me be optimistic I would say Castillo has ace POTENTIAL. If Disco is healthy and performs up to standards he is also a solid number 2.
I know it’s a long shot but it’s been a long 5 years. Let us hope.
More like a broken McDonalds ice cream machine.
More than happy to say that the two more games we won vs the Cubs than the Brewers contributed to your narrow division title last season.
Fully agree bird
So u got Puig in CF?
Even without Gray, the Reds starting rotation is light years better than last year. But-way more is needed to realistically compete in NL Central.
I try not to feed the trolls. Lol
As of right now, Schebler goes to CF as he catches those he gets too.
More like a Middling Red Machine.
Even with a pick up of Gray they are 3rd or 4th best starting staff in the Central.
Yes but now rank offense…. put the 2 together now and it sure brings things closer. I’ll but this line up against anyone’s and take my chances…especially at home.
Yep. People are sleeping on this lineup, especially if Puig can capably handle cf.
More likely they picked up a bunch of fading veterans that will be flipped for prospects in July when they are 10 games out.
Big red machine. Hahaha. Joe Morgan Johnny Bench Tony Perez. Pete Rose George Foster.That team had 3 hall of famers and a 4th who has the most hits in baseball history but is banned from the hall of fame.How is this anything like the big red machine
Thats just wrong. While 2018 is not a perfect predictor of 2019 its surely a better predictor than 2014. As an example in 2015 Matt Harvey had a 271 era and 1.02 whip. Last year he had a 450 era and a 125. whip which do you think is a better predictor of this year.If 2015 is relevant he should be looking at a 25mill per contract right
Nooooooo
Going from one bandbox to another doesn’t seem like the best move for him, but it’s a trade so this is all about the best move for the Yankees.
Was Gray’s problem the ballpark or the pressure of playing in NY? It’s too small a sample to be of much worth, but Gray did have 1 start at GABP. He went 7 2/3 and gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, with 1 BB and 4 SOs. Reds must be banking on it being the pressure.
Does one even count as a sample size?
Yes it does snarky. If your team brought in a pitcher and he went 7 2/3 with a 2.35 ERA, a .0783 WHIP, and gave up zero HRs in a bandbox, I suppose you wouldn’t be encouraged.
I also said: “It’s too small a sample to be of much worth…”
It was the bandbox. Look at his starts outside the little league sized field in NY and he looks much better.
Teeny, tiny right field, warm, humid air, there are several HRs a year hit there that would be routine outs in every other stadium save maybe Fenway.
Fenway has a very large RF unless you hit it within 5 ft of the foul line.
Look at Gray’s career splits home and away. He doesn’t pitch well at home. Never has.
Gray’s problem is that he isn’t very good anymore.
Called it!! Reds’ Pitching Coach is the key.
There’s been multiple articles written for weeks about the Reds being a possibilty in a trade. So give it a rest already!
Not to mention that it hasn’t even happened yet
You said a week ago it was gonna be for Taylor Trammell..smh
No, Sherman said Yanks asked for Trammell.
I was facetious, and know you read that article. Whatever Gray ultimately ends up getting traded for — if the Reds— won’t be Taylor Trammell..smh. Cmon cereal, You’re supposed to be on my side!
Here’s the article that was the source of my joke:
link to nypost.com
We had a good laugh about that.
That link must’ve been taken down. It’s all good though.
just came here to see a Yankee fan say they are getting Senzel
RED$. Wild Card. . . Go Big or Go Home.
as crazy as it sounds, you’re absolutely right. (almost) everything the Reds have picked up are set to be free agents after 2019. if it works, then great. if it doesn’t, then blow it up and begin a rebuild for 2020 and beyond. I don’t necessarily see the Reds taking the division, but I can definitely see them challenging for a WC spot.
I’ll go, 79-83
I’d say your prediction of 79 W’s is very close, certainly not a WC team even with Gray
Just yesterday, on this site, the story stated Reds were not a team involved.
They only report what the rumors are. Not their fault if one of the bigger writers got it wrong.
But it is their fault if they continue to report things from that writer afterwards.
I’d say don’t come to a site with “rumor” in the title if you only want facts.
Ah you only want the rumors that are facts, huh?
if they stopped mentioning every report from every reporter who was wrong once there would be nothing to report
RedRoaster;
So if Einstein’s first-ever theory proved wrong, you’d throw out his Theory of Relativity along with everything else he ever thought?
it is possible that they weren’t involved yesterday but became involved today
You are right. If I were you, I’d sue to get your money back.
Yesterday? There article from 22 hours ago does in fact list the Reds as a potential landing spot.
link to mlbtraderumors.com
They posted a statement from Heyman later that he wasn’t a little after that so all they did was post about the info they got from a media source and now they are doing it again.
Maybe MLBtraderumors isn’t for you.
*shakes fist at cloud
Cincy already has a decent bullpen, and abover average offense. Now they’re putting together a decent rotation filled with a bunch of #3’s and #4’s. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the cubs or brewers are unable to make the playoffs. National league is extremely deep this year.
This trade makes no sense unless they think Luis Castillo is going to turn into the one this year (unlikely tho)
… Neo?
Follow the white rabbit
Feed your head.
He was impressive the last month and a half of last season. He just needs 3 be more consistent.
A pretty decent rotation doesn’t have a bunch of 3’s and 4’s. That’s the exact opposite of a decent rotation. Reds have 3 3’s in Wood, Castillo, Roark. A 5 in DeSclafani, and are looking for a 5 with the chance of being a 3 in Gray. That below average at best.
Roark is a 2
Roark is not a 2. Not even close. He might be the Reds number 2 but that doesn’t change the fact that a legit contender spent big money to sign the best free agent starter and found Roark expendable and moved him for a mere top 20 team prospect. He’s depth or and innings eater a 4 maybe. A 5 or a long reliever on a true contender
3+3+3+5+5=3.8. That’s almost the definition of average
Andriod… your system values the rotation backwards, so you would want the smallest number possible so a 3.8 is below average.
Look at it like this though:
Average rotation – Reds rotation
1 – 3
2 – 3
3 – 3
4 – 5
5 – 5
In every one of those you are below average or average. None of them are above average so I don’t know how you could call it a decent rotation?
Compare that to 5+5+5+5+5= average of 5. So it is improved with a top tier offense. Let’s see how it plays out. We all can sit here now and say this or that. Truth is we all are clueless…that’s why they play the games.
If the Reds go with starting a RP and then put in the starter 4 2/4 can go a long way.
The Brewers are primed to fall in the division. They have no middle infield and shaky starting pitching. Reds are going to make it interesting, but I still think the Cards and Cubs are the cream of the division.
Wonder who they give up…
I like the giants or A’s scenario Bc they have a big ball park and sonny gray seems to thrive in big ball parks
A’s maybe, but going to the Giant’s is highly unlikely. The Giants aren’t going to trade any of their thin number of prospects, and I don’t see any of the MLB guys being a fit. I doubt the Giants trade either Smith or Watson, for him, nor do I see any positional guys going. Belt makes the most sense for NY, but no way they give up Belt for Gray.
when the Cubs finish in fourth >>>>>
It could happen, but so could 3 other teams in the NL Central. Doubtful the Cards, too much pitching. But the Pirates are improved, just by being healthy, Brewers proved their potency in 2018, and I agree a wild Card team from the Central will be tough, especially with the weaker bottoms of the East and West.
look at the 2 teams’ line-ups. Reds have the better line-up and bullpen, at least on paper.
The Pirates will finish last this year in the NL Central. The Reds have made some serious upgrades. While not enough to push them to a divisional title in 2019, they could make a run for a wild card spot. With their young core and cheap payroll, I could see them winning the division in the near future.
East is weak, no wild card team coming out of it
This one gonna end with a mystery team. Count on it.
I don’t understand why the Reds are trading for all these guys who will be free agents after next year. Braves, Mets, Nats, Phillies, Cubs, Brewers, Cards, Dodgers, and Rockies are still better than them. And, possibly Pirates, Giants, and D-backs. The Reds will fall short next year and all this does is set them back even more before they can actually contend.
Thank you for stating this what I have been wondering this whole time. Thought there must be something I was missing.
They have to do something for the fan base. Their attendance has been pitiful. They can hit, OK defense, and might challenge .500, and hopefully put some butts in the seats.
I wouldn’t say the Mets are better.
I’d suggest the front office guys realize they’re out if they don’t win this year, and so they’re going for it even if it isn’t smart.
The Red Birds have attendance and cash flow provisions in their existing loan agreements that they are in danger of violating and need to boost attendance in 2019.
Doesn’t that depend on who and what they give up? If all of these players are on 1 year deals then it means it won’t effect future payroll. In addition, if these players still have value then they can easily be flipped at the trade deadline even if it’s for non top 100 prospects. It might well be half-a$$ed attempt to compete but it at lease gives the Cincy fans reason to at least be engaged this season.
They are acquiring pieces with the hopes of seeing what they have at the end of the year and extending the ones they like. Instead of handcuffing them with a multi-year deal that could screw them over for several years, they are effectively giving up very little and acquiring lottery tickets that will at least make a semi competitive team. They haven’t exactly parted with a big prospect outside of Jeter Downs who doesn’t really have a spot in the foreseeable future, and managed to dump Homer Bailey’s contract. They also have the ability to flip a guy at the trade deadline if they aren’t competing for more than what they gave up.
@Chicks Dig the Longball
Completely agreed. It’s also worth pointing out that if any of these one-year players has a big year they can be tagged with the qualifying offer for draft compensation.
The Reds had to improve their pitching. It was either make these trades or go and try to sign Keuchel, Morton, and Happ for a total of $50-$60m a year, moves that are both risky and expensive.
Because they had less than 20K attending home games and less than 40K viewing games on the television. They should be scared of losing an entire generation of fans to the new MLS team. They may be too incompetent to trade for pieces under team control past this season.
Or, they’d rather not pay the additional prospect cost of acquiring long term pieces.
If they trade for a Kluber type, Cincy has to give future core players. These rentals are not setting the rebuild back at all.
They also aren’t helping the Reds become a successful winning ballclub.
To be fair they haven’t given up any truly premium prospects this offseason and most of the one-year guys they acquired plus the ones they already had going into the offseason like Scooter Gennett should have some trade value come the deadline so if (when) the Reds are out of it at the deadline they will be able to flip those guys. But knowing the Reds they will probably keep them because “You have to put a good product on the field” or “to gain the inside track to signing them” or some other b.s. reason like that.
I think They’re expecting to trade some of these guys at the deadline to kick off their rebuild. Trading two top-ten guys and a competitive pick (if that’s the deal) seems ass-backwards though.
They have their core signed and give their young another year while competing.
If indeed it is the Reds I could see the Yankees looking at Gutierrez or Mella and maybe a lower lever prospect Longhi. Fair warning though, my trade suggestions generally stink.
Better not be Gut, Mella at best. It’s one year of a guy looking to bounce back.
The Reds were often down 3-0 after the first inning last year, and often playing from behind. If they have just an average rotation, that can keep them close, and get to what was a very solid bullpen, they will be fun to watch.
Yanks should trade Gray for Votto.
175 Mil left on his contract.
Sure you can have him
132 if you buy out his last year.
Marty and Thom Brenneman, is that you? All Votto does is rake, year in, year out. In a “down” year like 2018 he still had an OPS+ of 125. The prior three years were 174, 160, and 167. He’ll work on his power this offseason, and he’ll bounce back.
Votto is the ultimate professional. Don’t know what you two are thinking.
Not a fan of these two teams… and Votto is still a great hitter, bug you absolutely trade that contract if you can. His age 35-38 seasons are still not what you want to pay that money for
He has a full NTC and is on record saying he has zero interest in being traded. Dude takes and loves CIN, so I highly doubt he every plays for another team.
Gray pitched to a 3.17 ERA and over a K per inning on the road last year. Put him in the NL, that ERA drops down to 2.17z. He’s definitely worth Votto and a #1 prospect.
He also had a 6.41 ERA against teams with a winning record. I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high.
All AL teams and mostly at home. Thanks for proving my point.
Ah, ok. He can pitch against bad teams and the NL. Got it now. You’re right, that’s absolutely worth a #1 prospect.
Ignore it, this guy’s a troll, no one could really think this
“worth votto and a #1 prospect” lmao this guy
I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that that was tongue-in-cheek lol. But if he’s a Yankees fan, that would make me less hopeful ;)
Lmao, A: Votto has a no trade clause and wants to stay in Cin. B: You do realize that going by park factors, Great American Ball Park is much more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium, right? C: Gray has one year left of control left. The only way they could get Votto+ is if Gray had pitched like a Cy Young candidate last season with 3+ years remaining.
Average ERA in the AL last year was 4.27 and in the NL was 4.02 but you’re gonna just assume a full point drop by switching leagues? Especially into a division with some of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball?
I don’t know why people always bring up Votto. Even if Cinci wanted to trade him Votto has full no trade and by all accounts likes it Cinci. He seems like a guy that doesn’t want the spotlight so he would hate NY, Bos, LA. He isn’t going anywhere.
They’re just arguing trade values more than actual trades. I believe Votto to still be really good and Gray is not but as Cincy you have to think about such a trade just to lose the end of that contract. Obviously wouldn’t make sense if you’re Cincy and your going for it, but let’s face it, Cincy going for it doesn’t make any sense.
Hahahaa!! No.
@fathead As a Yankee fan I’m going to say that The Reds need to give up Senzel for Gray. Lol How’s that ? Did I do good? Dopey
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds traded the Yankees Tanner Roark to get him. Even though C.C. Sabathia is cleared to pitch they’ll still need pitching. Roark isn’t spectacular but he’s stable and could pitch anywhere. He’d at least get them through the regular season. Alex Wood is too high of a price to pay, which is why I’m saying Tanner Roark.
If the Reds traded Roark and a low ranked prospect, I don’t see any other team reaching higher unless they want to overpay on Sonny Gray.
Yanks are not looking to add a pitcher with a worse HR/9 than Even Gray has. Sorry bud you’re dead wrong.
I called it yesterday ! Not expecting much in return but nobody is if they are being honest
Nice to see a team trying to better themselves rather than tanking like so many teams did last year.
“Progress” and “Sonny Gray” should not be used in the same sentence.
These moves for 1 year players seem like an ownership that wants to increase attendance. That’s understandable, but also somewhat of a chancy way of going about it. What happens if Cincy doesn’t really improve much in the standings and then, in 2020, revert right back to what they have been the past several seasons?
I’ve always thought of 1 years rentals, for the most part, as players to put a team over the top. Much like mid season trades for players on expiring contracts. If Gray is acquired by the reds, that would make 5 such contracts/players. That’s a possible 5 that would then need to be filled, again, after the 2019 season. It just doesn’t feel like smart business tactics.
I believe making an effort to put a competitive team on the field every year is good for fans and business.
Yes, but through development and trades that net long term pieces. Not a slew of 1 year expiring contracts.
Long term pieces would cost the Reds their best prospects. They can easily recoup the prospects they gave up and then some by dealing Puig and Wood at the deadline.
plus it gives the prospects another year of development time.
And the guys that have been traded by the Reds so far were behind higher ranked prospects at their position.
We’ve got a lot of money coming off the books next year, so it’s expected we’ll do some serious FA shopping after this season’s over.
Reds and FA shopping don’t go hand in hand. The largest FA contract was Coco Cordero .
We’re upping our payroll 30 mil this year, so that portends good things.
You said it yourself, they could do it again next year. They are avoiding financially crippling themselves in favor of flexibility. Like a guy for the future, they can extend him or sign him next offseason. Don’t like him, try to flip him at the deadline. I would be acquiring as many 1 year deal guys as I can.
That’s exactly what they’re doing, and why not? It beats sitting on your hands waiting for prospects to develop since they haven’t been able to sign FA because of financial constraints. I know I’ll be at the BP more next year!!
As long as they aren’t blocking a mlb ready prospect and the commitment doesn’t last past 2019 then what’s the downside on some of these 1 year rentals? As long as “real prospects” aren’t be used to get him there’s little downside.
Yep and the players are playing for the next contract.
Worst case, they offer Puig, Wood, and Gennett QO’s at the end of the year, and get draft picks.
Throw Gray into that mix as well if he bounces back which in the NL is a strong possibility
Yes. Gray pitching for NYY is like putting a motorcycle engine in a Peterbilt.
Gray for Scooter swap. Get it done, Cash
We have DJ though
Three way deal:
Reds get Gray & Hicks
Indians get Andujar & Scooter
Yanks get Kluber
Ok, i gotta go, my bus is leaving.
So the Yanks would open up holes in CF and 3B? No.
They already have a hole at 3B
Yes they do. He hit 47 dbls and 27 hrs in his rookie season and when Boone posts the lineup he has the “3B” next to his name if that helps you.
He’ll be a full time 1B or DH by the end of the 2019 season. Book it.
Really!!! One of the top rookies last year.
*an a hole at 3b
Him being one of the top rookies last year was due to his bat. He’ll still be able to do that as a DH.
Indians would not agree. Andujar’s defense is mediocre at best and Klube ris a Cy Young candidate.
I know it’s a crazy trade that wouldn’t happen. That’s why I caught the bus.
Probably a little yellow one with a proposal like that
Yes, steeler, thanks for pointing out the obvious, and for clarifying exactly what I meant. Idiot.
With Romine a FA after this yr,Stephenson makes sense. Breaux and Seigler are aways off, and Stephenson is a pretty good defensive catcher with rocket arm. Long reminds me of Bip Roberts type of prospect
Or the Yanks can just resign Romine if he has another solid season like last year.
Stephenson makes sense if your a NYY fan. No way they’re giving up their # 6 prospect for a year of Gray. Nor their # 7 prospect in Long.
Think Mella at # 11. Someone (or two) outside the top 10 is more likely.
Can we agree that organizational rankings is relative to how good or bad the organization is? Yanks traded away Sheffield, Swanson and Williams. Sheff was our #1 but the other two weren’t even in our top 15 when traded. They immediately became 3 of Seattle’s top 12 immediately after the trade. If the Reds #8 but he’s rated as a B-/C prospect then he could be in play.
I agree that organizational rankings are relative. However, the Reds have a top 5 farm system. The NYY farm system is also quite strong. I’d look at the individual players ratings. I’m certainly not parting easily with a “60” player such as Senzel, Trammel, or Greene. I’m not parting with a 55 or 50 player for one year of Gray. That takes you to the Reds highest rated 45 player: Mella at # 11. I’d consider that a fair trade. The NYY have a bunch of 55 and 50 players through their # 12 prospect, for reference.
If the reds make the trade that Jon heyman is proposing with shed long or tyler Stephenson and a draft pick I will probably give up on the reds front office and they will be out the door fast as hell
The Reds have a million 2B in their system with Senzel or India likely to be the everyday 2B after Scooter leaves. Stephenson would be an overpay unless it was Robert Stephenson lol.
Shed Long is challenged defensively and blocked by at least two players in the organization. It is also possible Scooter resigns.
Why do the Reds want him anyway?
He was terrible last year, and a 1 year rental.
Just way NO
Come on SD, or ATL make a good offer.
So you’re logic is he was “bad” in 2018 but the Braves and Padres should get him tho?
Shed, Stevenson AND a comp pick? I’d tell the Yankees to take a f***ing hike. I’d give up Long, but not Stevenson and sure not the comp pick.
They can choose another prospect that’s NOT in our top 10
It doesn’t say they’re suggesting sending all 3, just that those are names that have come up.
“our” top 10 ???
Now ppl just hating on Gray cuz he’s white. He’d light up the NL. It’s proven that AL pitchers do much better in the NL. Some ppl are just too soft for Yankees stadium.
What does his race have to do with this? Just because a player moves from big market to small market doesn’t mean a pitcher goes from mid-to-back end rotation piece to #2 starter to ace.
Very happy Giants nor Padres made this move.
He would be a good fit for the Giants. Besides the big ball park, they have Curt Young who was his pitching coach during his best years with the A’s. The problem they really don’t have tradeable assets.
Sonny Gray in the Reds ball park the Home Runs should be flying out of the ballpark.
ground ball pitchers should be what the Reds should be looking at for that type of return.
Specially when you are talking a guy that has been garage as of late and so bad he had to be sent to the bullpen.
if the Reds make this deal for the type of prospects rumored I hope it works out.
Shed Long, comp pick, and Matt Kemp for Clint Frazier and Gray. Let’s rip
I don’t think the Yankees have a place for Kemp in the OF or DH. And that year long concussion thing is far more worrisome than Senzel’s.
Sort’ve wanted Sonny back on the A’s, but happy he’s getting another opportunity with another club.
Finally, the Reds spend some money and use its proscepts to more competitive. Vatto must be happy. He has some talent around him. Kemp can still, and Puig is an untapped high strung talent. For way too long, the Reds have no serious attempts to be contending.
Who names their child Shed
His parents, Carport and Garage Long
I swear on my life, I wrote the same thing and deleted my post when I saw yours. Lol. Nice.
I want to know who names their child Wendell. Especially with a last name like Smallwood.
Nickname? Mitch Haniger is called The Shed, because he has all the tools.
Shedric Sr.
Rusty Kuntz says hi.
Funny thread at least lol damn clowns
RD;
Nice aquarium though.
What DH’s can the Reds part with? Seems the Yankees love them DH’s.
That would be Matt Kemp, not that I think that will happen.
They have Kemp and Winker
Far as I know Stanton is their only DH and that’s because Judge plays his position.
I don’t understand why people are so concerned with the ballpark he pitches in. Gray had a HR/9 of 1.0 last year. For comparison, Scherzer’s was 0.9 and Verlander’s was 1.2. His issue isn’t homeruns, far more of his runs came from nibbling leading to walks and then giving up base hits. His problem could have been the pressure of pitching in front of the NY crowd, but it definitely wasn’t the propensity of Yankee Stadium to yield homers.
Sonny Gray gave up 14 homers — 11 at Yankee Stadium.
Thanks man!!
Yankee Stadium is somewhat the anomaly. His HR/9 there is 1.8. It’s the same at CHW, and his worst is at NYM where it’s 2.25,
But it’s significantly lower pretty much everywhere else. It’s 0.8 in 45 IP in Tor., 0.9 in 29 IP in Cle., 0.7 in 38 1/3 IP in Bal., 0.8 in 21 1/3 IP in Hou., and 0.5 in 49 1/3 IP in Tex. Plus, in his 30 2/3 IP in LAA he has yet to give up a HR.
You’re completely missing his point. Solo homers don’t hurt as much as ones with ROB and most of those came after allowing a walking guys. He seems to just get nervous in YS. I mean, it’s quite clear.
@ YS- 59 IP- 78 hits, 35 BB vs 45 KO
Away- 71 IP- 60 hits, 22 BB vs 71 KO
When we say he struggles at home people instinctively think we’re talking about YS dimensions but I really think he simply has the yips at home and isn’t comfortable for whatever reason. Look at his H/9 at YS. That has little to do with dimensions. He seems much more aggressive and comfortable on the road.
Why not
Unbelievable amount of ink for a 4th starter. A 4th starter only on a non-competitive team at that. I can see Gray improving in the NL (most would) but not in the Great American Smallpark.
If the Reds give up anything but a #20-30 ranked prospect in their very decent system, they’re nuts……
You DO realize how difficult it is to simply get a prospect to be a serviceable #4 or #5 right?
You DO realize that Gray is one year out from free agency right?
Guess they’re gonna have to start calling him sonny red or sumtin tss tss tss
Nickname: Dorian
The Reds have nothing to lose with the one year rental strategy. If they are out of it at the deadline, they can trade Gray, Wood, Roark, Puig, Kemp ( they may trade him now to an AL club. They would have to pick up quite a bit of salary to do it, say $12 mil of $20 owed). Scooter is also in his walk year. They can trade all of them and gain similar (if not better) prospects than they gave up. If there in it at the deadline, they add. All the while not taking on huge multi- year commitments that hamstring small market clubs. They also retain all their best prospects (Senzel, Trammel, Greene etc…). They would love to have Kluber, but not for Senzel & Tranmel so I think they finally decided to move on. I would be surprised if they traded Shed Long, although they do have quite a few infield prospects. I don’t think Christensen has shown much to date in the minors, but catcher is such a premium these days. No way they give them both..,
Not a Cincy Fan but I agree with your assessment. The franchise has essentially been stagnant for 20 years. Absolutely positive they won’t be any worse off by trying to shake things up.
Sometimes a change of scenery is all a player needs. Gray obviously wasn’t able to handle New York (otherwise I’d want the Mets to be involved..as Gray is much better than Vargas) I like the move for Cincinnati,not so much for Gray. Great American Ballpark? is more hitter friendly. San Diego would have been better for Gray to re-establisg his value heading into free agency. All in all a good move for the Reds, depending on the assets given up. Once that information is known, there will be a better understanding of who initially won the trade.Regardless, Cincy had vastly improved from a year ago. Time will tell.
This has got Mat Latos written all over it…
? Reds are trading a top 100 prospect equivalent of Alonso for a young starter with team control? How so?
Don’t forget they gave up Volquez, who became an all-star, Boxberger, a closer, and Grandal, one of the premier hitting catchers.
There is no comparison to that trade.
Volquez didn’t “become” an All Star, he was an AS in 2008 (only) and the Reds traded him after the 2011 season. For reference, he had an ERA+ of 69 (appropriate?) in 2011. Boxberger has come down to earth after a stellar 2015 season, and is an average closer currently. Grandal, I wouldn’t call him premier, but he did cash in on a one year deal with the Brewers after one very good year with the LAD.
In return, the Reds got Latos, who was a stud for them for all 3 years that he was there. And then they flipped him for DeSclafani, who gave them an average year and an above average year before getting hurt. Latos, was awful after leaving the Reds and is out of MLB. Much like the current Reds, the Reds were hurting for starting pitching before Latos arrived.
Gray is going to go 14-4 with a 3.48 era in 200+ innings for the Reds?
I think the Yankees were “close” to dealing him? That’s supposed to mean it happens within 24 hours.
So, trading for a bunch of one year rentals to plug your holes just to have to refill them yet again next year? Even if all of these guys are healthy and have bounce back/good years, they will price themselves out of Cincinnati and go elsewhere. On top of that, even with these additions, they’re still looking up to the Cubs, Cardinals, and the Brewers still. Great shot to beat the Pirates. Yay!
So you’d rather the team trot out Romano, Reed, Mahle, Finnegan? Because that’s who will start in the places of the rentals. The rentals might not be great, but those arms I mentioned definitely won’t be. Don’t you want the team to compete? These rentals give them a chance and the lack of financial commitment mitigates any risk because it’s just 1 year. They’ll have $60 million off the books next year and can play in free agency.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be so sure that they will end up looking up at the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. The Reds lineup will be way more than solid, the BP is very good, and their biggest weakness, the starting pitching, will go from abysmal to decent. To date, the Reds have not given up much in return for Wood, and Roark. They are both better than the Reds best pitcher, Castillo, last year. Castillo had some growing pains in his second year, but started out poorly and then came on. Disco should be healthy and have more than 115 IP. They don’t have a true ace, but they will have 2 #2 starters, a couple of #3 starters, and a #4 starter..
Add Gray I’d say you’re at 79 wins
Even if they don’t contend this year (which I”m not so sure they should be written off, but I digress) at the end of 2019 Gray, Wood, Roark, Gennett, Puig, and Kemp would all come off the books. That’s like 70M to spend in free agency, assuming that none of them get qualifying offers or sign extensions.
And you shouldn’t forget that the Reds jacked the Brewers pitching coach, who did an awful lot with nothing.
why the Reds are trading legitimate prospects for rentals is beyond me at this point.
Because prospects are just that. 2/3 never pan out. Like CCR said, some day never comes.
What legitimate prospect have they traded besides Jeter Downs, who isn’t going to have a spot anytime soon?
Huh? You must be Tanner Rainey’s mom.
Because they are rentals that are significantly better. Upgrade over current talent…
But the REAL reason that no one is hardly mentioning is that next season we don’t have to resign any of these guys unless we and they want to. (Puig will resign if Turner ward stays) This is buying us time until ALL of our top end prospects across the diamond get promoted!
Outfield? Trammel
infield? Senzel
Pitching? Greene
This is what we are preparing for! A nasty 2020 set of rookies with all these all stars.
And as mentioned by others, there is the future draft and trade compensations we wouldn’t have.
I’m not familiar with the state of the Reds’ organization. What’s the deal with acquiring all the one-year rentals? Are they stopgaps before their higher-end prospects are ready? Is is their front office trying to save their jobs? Seems rather odd a team that didn’t appear close to contention last year makes all these moves to still look up at Chicago and Milwaukee at the least (and likely St. Louis as well).
The fans are tired of losing. Their attendance was the lowest in 35 years last season. This is them putting a watchable team on the field without giving up top prospects or breaking the bank in FA.
I think I see what the Reds are doing at this point. Adding three established middle of the road starters is a far, far cry from the staff full of young pitchers pushed into roles they are not remotely prepared to fill. The offense is not a problem at all. Give the offense adequate pitching and they have s chance in every game against every opponent while the next crop of young pitchers have time to develop before being forced into the majors before they are ready. I am OK with the approach.if it doesn’t work, trade these guys at the deadline and the young players have had year of development.
I agree. Even if, let’s say the Reds contend this season and they ultimately do not flip our new additions at the trade deadline, we can still offer them a QO and recoup an early draft pick.
Wait! What? The Reds were out as of yesterday.
St Louis better be ready for 4th or 5th place…
Padres have been a franchise for 49. I wonder how many times they’ve finished 4th or 5th? At least 35?
We wont be 5th this year buddy…might not be 5th again for a very, very long time. Not something the Cards will be able to say. At the luxury tax limit without a playoff team, that must be a crappy feeling. We wouldn’t know over here, only smart money moves for the past 5 years consistently. How can anyone hate on Myers or Hosmer when Heyward making 23 mil and mike leake making 17 mil…cmon people use your head
Maybe 10 years or longer, we’ll see how far AJ takes us.
I just checked. Padres have finished in 4th, 5th, or 6th place in 36 over 49 years.
And? with the best farm system in the majors (Padres) you’ll see a different result then 5th or 4th more like 2nd and WC in 2020.
Not a Cubs fan at all. Don’t like Heyward at all.
Would happily take Heyward and his contract over Hosmer and his every single day of the week. Hosmer isn’t trash, and that contract is embarrassingly bad.
You realize we’re gonna be paying him 13 mil the last few years of his contract??? And this is embarrassing?? Heyward is almost making double that….has someone like ben Zobrist getting starts in the OF ahead of him. But you’re such a baseball genius, you would take that contract over Hosmer.
Name all the current 1st basemen who have won a silver slugger and a gold glove??
Hosmer has an opt out after 2022. If he is worth $13m a year at that point Padres will have to either up his pay or lose him.
St. Louis isn’t finishing 4th or 5th and I’d be surprised if the Reds, even with this add, got within 10 games of them. And I’m not a Cards fan, I’m a Cubs fan. The Reds are probably near .500 at this point
The Cardinals are near .500 at this point. So thank you for proving my point.
The cubs are winning 100
The brewers are winning 90
Sorry cards, you’re done.
In other words, “Cashman isnt close to a deal for Gray. Just another slow day this offseason” I just find it funny how the Yankees treat all their players as if they are Jeter quality. Its Gray, just get a deal done.
Totally agree some GM’s love to see their name in print on a daily basis
You really think Cashman is concerned with what the usual fan thinks about a trade? I guarantee you if he thought Gray was “Jeter like” he wouldn’t have told the world his intent to trade him. This idea that GMs are expected to trade players quickly or FA to sign quickly for the enjoyment of baseball rosterbation is hilarious. he’s doing his freaking job. Gray may not be worth much but if im Cash it’s my job to squeeze out every bit of trade value i think i can get.
Yesterday the Reds were out and the A’s and Padres were the favorites. What are comparable prospects on the A’s and Padres to (C)Stephenson and (IF)Long?
A’s – Neuse, and ???
Padres – Ruiz and Campusano or Allen
I’d take Allen over any of those players!
It appears that signing Adam Ottavino puts the Yankees over the 40-man roster limit by one. Unless someone is designated for assignment or another such move is made, the return for Sonny Gray will need to be a player not on the Reds’ 40-man. That rules out Keury Mella and Shed Long, both of whom have been rumored to be in the deal. Tyler Stephenson, however, is not on the 40-man. Stephenson would be a fairly steep price to pay.
I’m thinking they give them the extra spot just because it’s the Yankees. I’d really like to include an “/s” there, but MLB’s FO might get ideas.
Good take, BTM. I’m really hoping for this trade on both sides. For the Reds, I also hope that it’s a trade and extension. He’s got the makeup to anchor that staff and I’m positive he will excel under his old coach at Vanderbilt. For the Yankees, another prospect or two to flip for deadline depth, or simply organizational depth. If he doesn’t get dealt to the Reds, I’m hoping Cash decides to hang on to him.
That is true. Unless Kahle is involved as well in which case that would change things.
Why would they give them those kind of assets for a broken arm about to be released? (If nobody bites they’ll DFA him). I’d rather have seen them overbid the Yanks for Ottavino.
Why would they dfa him? He can very well be sp depth instead
The would never DFA him. If they were going to do that they would have just non tendered him earlier in the off-season.
I think he ends up with the Padres.
Long>Mateo… Stephenson=Fowler… kaprellian=bust. Pull the trigger Cash.
Lol it’s not for all those home slice
They traded Mateo, Fowler and Kaprelian for Gray. Purposed trade in the article says Long and Stephenson and a pick back. Read articles my guy
“organizations are still discussing different prospects — Shed Long and Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return” Nowhere in the article does is say “proposed deal of long and Stephenson and a pick”. Those are people being discussed, along with probably a dozen other prospects in the Reds organization. That could mean all of them. That could mean none of them. You may have read the article, but your comprehension sucks my guy
the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal,…. ur comprehension apparently sucks my guy. And incase u were wondering troll, copy and paste from the article.
Posted 17 hrs after your original post. Retro-fact doesn’t make you right. At the time of your original post, the article then only mentioned them as players being discussed. You can play hind sight all you want, you were still wrong.
Or, you could’ve gone to the original tweet that this article references: “Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go” *copy and paste from the tweet* ONE of MAY go… so…you’re still wrong. Based on your reading comprehension skills tho, I’m guessing independent research is way out of the picture
Now it says Long and the draft pick as the total package.
shed long is not better than Jorge Mateo
Mateo is all speed.. Long is a lefty bat who can field his position. I’ve watched Long for a season in Dayton. Dude is way better the Mateo
This might be the most interest in a mediocre pitcher that I have ever seen. No complaints here !
Bumgarner to the Reds. Senzel to the Padres. Bunch of Padres prospects to the Giants
The Reds aren’t trading Senzel for anyone that they have one year control of.
Where are the Yankees in this deal?
lol
Probably with the Reds, out of this senseless deal.
Can they deal him today? I want to see another trade
If they’re gonna trade him at all they need to freaking do it today cuz this is getting nauseating.
Couldn’t agree more
“There are other teams still involved.” LOL, They’re not really close to a deal. Wonder how long the Yankees have to get back down to 40
I was just going to ask the same thing. Does anyone know?
i dont think Ottovino’s deal is official yet, so they are fine until they do so.
This is annoying. We keep hearing he’s about to be traded then we hear how multiple teams are still in on him. This has been going on for a while now. Can’t wait for the guy to be traded just to stop hearing about how close a trade is just for it not to be that close.
The reporting this off season is the worst I’ve ever seen
I would agree 100%. Too many people chasing too few stories.
Dipoto doing his best to third wheel this one I bet
Not sure why the angels or padres aren’t making a move for him, Put him in a pitchers park and I think he will put up good numbers again.
Yankees- Belt
Reds – Gray, Watson
Giants – Senzel
What a horrible trade for the reds lmao
Not sure it’s horrible, but maybe too steep. Maybe Giants and/or Yankees kick in a lower level prospect or maybe the reds trade Greene or Trammel instead of Senzel.
No, it’s terrible.
It’s so bad that I would expect Mike to have some type of learning disorder.
1. It’s not nice to say something like that.
2. Everyone may think it was a horrible proposal, but If the reds are dumb enough to give up the 6&7 prospect along with a draft pick for gray, maybe they would have given up their #1 prospect for gray + watson or gray and w smith.
No, no one is that dumb. Giving up Senzel, get one year of Gray and Tony Watson? No, no one is that dumb.
reds will have a new 5 man wartation
I’ll laugh when he has better peripheral numbers on a crap reds team in a band box than cc and happ do.
Cash is a genius!
Wow hearing people who know nothing about baseball saying how horrible Sonny Gray is. 4.90 earned run average but away from Yankee Stadium had just ate 2.15 earned run average. Do any of you know it all‘s realize what that means? Apparently not by experts in baseball see that as away from the Bronx sunny is a good picture which is why more than six teams have inquired about him. There are some guys who just cannot deal with the pressures of playing in New York City and sunny is one of those guys. Whoever gets him is getting a picture who will help their rotation regardless what some of these people on this board who obviously need to get drug tested think
Sonny Gray isn’t horrible but he did have a poor year and only has one more year of control left. That all leads up to not being very valuable. The Yanks will probably get a couple prospects in 15 to 30 range from the Reds if he is traded there.
In the Bronx he had a 6.98 ERA. He was horrible. On the road he had a 3.17 ERA, not 2.15. Good, but all starting pitchers have to pitch at home too.
link to baseball-reference.com
He has always been bad at home. 2018 was exceptionally bad.
link to baseball-reference.com
Gray has a 4.53 ERA the past 3 years. That is not good.
Sonny gray for Joey Votto. Straight up and Reds pay off the rest of Votto salary.
Or Sonny Gray for 3 of their top prospects with Scooter Gennet. Reds pay off the rest of Gennett salary
ROFL
I assume this is in jest… If its Sonny Gray for Joey Votto, the Reds will also be taking Jacoby Ellsbury.
Come on man. Jacoby is MVP hitter. Hell fit right in with Kemp and Puig! That would be a funny outfield though
If that OF happens, we gotta give that OF a name.
PSA: Stop mentioning Joey Votto! He has a full NTC that he has already said multiple times he isn’t waiving!
Sauces are telling me Stephenson and a draft pick for Gray!
Name your sauces! Or do they need to remain “ananomayse”.
Lol I’m gonna be like some of those twitter sauces and tell you after he signs I’ll give you more info….
Meant after traded!
Thanks for “relishing” my joke :-)
Maybe a little too much sauce?
Let me see if I’m doing this right. Sonny for a half-eaten hog dog and a 3 week old small box of popcorn. I’ll even throw in a bottle of store-brand water.
Deal I’ll take it!
Us the reds #6 and 7 prospects and you got a deal.
I don’t get it. Does Gray actually make the Reds better? I’d rather roll the dice with Mahle, who at the age of 23 had an era of 3.38 through the month of June. Granted the rails fell off, but I’d see if he can right the ship in 19.
Ok, i totally botched my metaphor, but you still get the point.
Sonny Gray trade is getting close…. How long have they been saying this?
Can feel it in my bones. A blockbuster deal is in the works. Yanks have surplus in the pen and in young arms. They can go out and cherry pick a player like Kluber or Bumgarner and give up multiple bodies including Gray. SF needs bodies, Cleveland needs outfielders. Watch and see !
I could see a blockbuster happening, but it’s likely to be a separate deal, not involving Grey.
Andujar,Frazier for arenado and Jon gray
I think losing Gray is a mistake and as a long loving yankee fan if they don’t upgrade that pitching staff they will once again go out early! They are trying to compensate with the best relief pitching in the game to win games, get a starter
They did upgrade the rotation with Paxton and a full season of Happ.
Sevy, Tanaka, Paxton, Happ, CC
Are way better than the start of last year with
Sevy, Tanaka, Gray, CC, Montgomery
Okay, so Heyman’s latest actually says “one of” Long or Stephenson. It doesn’t imply both.
And as a Reds fan, I would be fine with one, but not both.
But two prospects total, and also a draft pick. As a Yankee fan, I am happy with that return for what is essentially dead weight.
It’s still too much for Gray from the Reds, but if the prospect isn’t Top 20 I can deal. Gray is a huge bounceback candidate. Personally I think the Yankees overplayed their hand by saying he was up for grabs and then filling their rotation and bullpen, so they’re lucky to get anything at all.
They appear to be getting more than you think he’s worth, but you think they overplayed their hand…?
Sounds like they played it perfectly.
Yes, it’s a criticism of the Reds leadership to give up too much for him.
Yeah, I think they’re slightly misreading Heyman’s tweet. I agree that it’s Long OR Stephenson, plus a pick and plus a lesser prospect. That seems fair enough for the Reds but also a nice haul for the Yankees for a guy they are trying to dump.
Agreed. Still think it’s an overpay by the Reds, but if it’s not TWO top 10’s I can deal.
I certainly am not going to complain. Its more than what I thought a suitor might pay
Stephenson would be out of the question if it were up to me. Long + a draft pick is plenty though I’d rather it be Long + Mella or something similar.
Man, this is like watching paint dry in the rain.
… while inhaling the fumes.
I think the Reds have done a good job up to this point. What they don’t need now is another mid-rotation, 1-year rental at the cost of prospects/draft picks. Signing a mid-rotation FA for 1 year would be fine: giving up future pieces is not.
Wholeheartedly agree. Can’t believe they’d give up multiple top 10 prospects. Grey seems no better than Roark, and they gave up the #25 prospect for him.
Gray’s ceiling is much higher than Roark’s, IMO.
So much higher that you’d trade two top 10s? No. Not even that much higher that you should trade a top 20.
Clearly you missed my comment where I said I don’t think that is the plan, or even what Heyman is saying
Totally agree. They shouldn’t give up more than a pair of reclamation efforts like Stephenson, Finnegan or Whistler. The Reds are stupid if they give up a legit prospect for a 1-year rental who couldn’t even make a post season roster last year.
This trade is drawing out well… At first Yankees fans felt they were getting Scooter Gennet… Then Taylor Trammell… Then they thought they were getting both Stephenson and Long… Now just Long and a draft pick? LOL That’s okay… Yankee fans will say they stole a future Hall of Famer away from them. Just like Voit.
Long and a draft pick for a guy that was completely useless to them? Yeah, thats a decent move, lol
Useless to them v useful to another team are two very different things. I don’t view Gray as more of a fringe #4 but likely #5, but that still has some value to teams. That said, getting a guy in a team’s top 10 is pretty good.
Now the package is said to be less than originally reported if gray doesn’t sign an extension. This keeps getting better and better!
That really is a steal for the Yankees if that is what is really going to them
From the same people that brought you “3 Months of Machado”…
MLBTR Studios presents… THE SONNY GRAY TRILOGIES
Why are you here if it bothers you? See yo-self out
He also complains about expiration dates on milk.
Why are you here if my comment bothers you? Or are you the only sanctioned arbiter of negative opinions?
Because it became outdated 1-18-2019
I am a Braves fan, but if the Reds are giving their 6th and 7th best prospect plus a draft pick, I’m wondering what Reds brass is trying to do, at the end of the day they will still be last or next to last in their division. The Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals are all better. Why are they trading their future for a one year rental. If you are going to rebuild, you have to have patience
I think the tweet actually only implies they’ll give up one, but it’s still an overpay.
I also don’t think the Reds should be underestimated.
Yeah doesn’t seem like the right ‘next move’. But it is only one of those two, not both. I’ve thought Long was a borderline MPB player for a year now. That wouldn’t kill me, but it doesn’t really move the needle much unless Gray surprises us.
MLB
Keuchel would have been a better fit.
Keuchel has to want to play in Cincy. Gray only has say in how long he plays in Cincy.
Yeah, 6th & 7th seems high for 1 year of Gray in a hitters park. At that point, I’d rather Atlanta not move that high of prospects for him, and use them for someone else.
True THAT !!!!
Been praying the Reds would stay away. Memories of the Chapman trade all over again. Unless Gray wins 15+ games with a well above average FIP and ERA+ I would see this as completely lopsided in the Yankees favor. Trading 2 of any organizations Top 10 prospects plus another draft pick is a huge over pay for a guy that you know they don’t want.
Stop…. posting…. the same crap!!!! Tomorrow’s headline? “Gray to the reds a possibility…”
Aliens invading Earth tomorrow a possibility.
Not sure of the Reds overall strategy is in this offseason. All of their moves are acquiring short term pieces all will be gone after this season, especially if they have bounce back years as the Reds hope.
The Dodgers deal was actually pretty good. It’s all wasted money (Bailey before, Kemp now etc) but now they have 3 guys who can help win games this year and they haven’t handcuffed themselves with salary down the road. I love that deal.
This one would make no sense to me. Giving up significant prospects for a one year rental.
If it’s Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for Sonny Gray that is a huge overpay. Unless there’s more coming back as in a couple of relievers then I’d much rather sign Gio Gonzalez or another free agent starter or go big and sign Dallas Keuchel
Waaaaay to MUCH to give up for 1 year of another teams castoff !!!
He will help but not at that cost .
There are better options than Gray.
I don’t know how the Yankees do it .
Sonny Gray makes me miss Ed Whitson.
this would be a massive over pay for the reds. 2 top 10 guys for 1 year of a bum who can’t pitch anymore. who wants a guy in the playoffs who cant thow big games! if they make this trade we should flood their phones calling for Williams to be fired. I hope is rumor nonsense
Came to say the same. Cincinnati also has a hitter friendly park. That’s too much to give up for Gray.
The fault here is Jeff Todd’s. He misquoted what Heyman said in his tweet.
At least report the tweet correctly Mr Todd. He clearly states one of Long or Stephenson, not both.
“Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go.“
Yes, seems to be one of them plus another unknown prospect.
Only Cashman can get a top 10 prospect, for a fading back end starter with only 1 year control remaining.
2 top 10 prospects lol
As a diehard Reds fan, I’d rather keep Stephenson and the comp pick but Shed Long and another low level prospect for Gray is fine with me. I want no part in trading Senzel for Kluber so hopefully this will signal the end of that. If Gray bounces back, Reds can contend, I fully believe that. Their bullpen is underrated and their lineup is stacked. I love what we’ve done thus far. Keuchel would be nice but for the money he wants, we wouldn’t have much room to wiggle going forward.
Couldn’t agree more Rows, on almost every point. Long and a lower prospect for Gray (nothing more) and hang on to Senzel. Kluber has feasted on the weak teams in his division; he could very well prove to be a disappointment with the Reds. I like Keuchel, but only if his contract demands come down, which I believe will happen. If the demands for Gray and Keuchel don’t become reasonable, just say no and leave the # 5 spot in the rotation open for the kids.
And those saying they won’t compete in 19 are in for a rude awakening. Their rotation has gone from abysmal to decent. The BP and the lineup is quality.
Not a Reds fan but if they do enough to leapfrog even one of the teams in their division I’ll be blown away. So far I’m not seeing anything I can consider special or the kind of move that puts someone over the top. If starting pitching is the Achilles heal they acquired two fifth/sixth starters. The Nats literally signed Corbin(legit difference maker for a contender) then off loaded some excess in Roark. The Cardinals were much better and they got Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller to try to leapfrog the Cubs and/or Brewers. Those are guys that can get a team there not Wood or Roark. I like Puigs upside but don’t think he’d make a great starter. I personally see upside and certainly potential in Gray. His numbers outside Yankees stadium as many mentioned and his past success make him a prime rebound candidate and at his best he was an ace. But to get him you’re dipping into your top ten prospects, he won’t be enough even if he’s his best, and in 2020 everyone is gone and they are minus some prospects to go from bad to mediocre.
Perhaps the Reds are thinking, of he’s productive in the first half, then either he helps them make a run or he’s trade deadline bait for contenders?
I don’t think he’s “washed up”; then again, I’m not getting paid to balance his value to my franchise versus that of the potential impact of minor league players.
To clarify:
Cashman is (potentially) turning Gray into prospects that (potentially) help the franchise later … maybe that’s the same idea in Cincinnati?
Sure, we’ve seen players come to The Bronx and wilt (something I still believe kept them from going all in to try and get Grienke years ago) only to find or regain themselves after they’re in another team.
Typically, we only hear/read about one side of “the pinstripe mystique” and rarely hear/read about the kind of pressure that’s gotta be inherent to always win.
I’ll never forget when the media literally swarmed Jeter’s locker after they lost the first game of the season. He just smiled and said something like “I guess we won’t be undefeated this season huh?”
That’s a decent hall for Gray
They need to go hard for Keuchel or else I don’t think this makes much sense.
Does any one have a quick write up on Long and Stephensen? These guys any good?
Long is a 2nd baseman with good upside. Stephenson is a Catcher with some pop
MLBpipeline
I like what the Reds are doing. Let’s be honest, if they get Gray then there’s no reason to think they can’t be relevant in the chase for the second Wild Card deep into the season. That’s a vast improvement anyway you look at it. Not a Reds fan, don’t know the team, but can’t see a downside. Better than meaningless irrelevance for 162 games.
Downside is that they would dish two top 10 prospects for a 1 year pitcher who might regain some value. The Reds are trying to come out of a rebuild but they aren’t there yet. This is a move that a playoff team would make. There’s better options available on the open market.
what a waste of internet space
Sounds like a lot
Getting at least one of those prospects would be a steal for the Yanks.
I wonder if the Braves overpay on Gray because a second bigger name is attached. Say Stanton or Andujar to transition to left field. I still want to know what the Marlins value Brian Anderson at, if they would be open to packaging him and jtr together?
Marlins won’t move Anderson. They’re trying to move realmuto and straily. They want to keep the young ones with years of service left.
Terrible trade , Not sure why the dodgers , angels or padres are not in on him. Put him in a pitchers park and he will be back in his 2015 form imo.
Why would the Reds trade prospects for a guy that can only help them in a year where they hope they might challenge for the WC at best? Go sign Miley for 2 years. Go get Gio Gonzalez. Those guys will cost similar annual value, sign for multiple years and cost no prospects.
That projected prospects and draft pick for gray is so dumb. Way to much! Yankees don’t need to be handed this. Gray is worth far less
Trade him to the dodgers , angels or padres to restock his value for the offseason. He needs to be in a pitchers park imo.
Maybe if you’re one of those teams you do that. And I truly think he has the potential to be ace like. But what he has shown recently and his health history, I wouldn’t give up two strong prospects for him at all. Not to mention a draft pick. I’ll trade 1 decently strong prospect (but not top 100 or top 10 at their position), another low lvl project that is packed with potential but hasn’t put anything together-basically someone no one has heard of, then some cash and/or a player to be named later. But prospects that are #6-7 in a strong system is flat silly for him especially if u add draft picks
*too
Uhh a draft pick? Competitive balance ?
There is no way the Reds are going to give up Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for one year of Gray. The draft pick is like the 36 pick in the draft. My guess is Stephenson and a higher 15-30 pick is what happens when it’s all said and done. Jeff Todd needs to read the tweet that he referenced one of Long or Stephenson is how I read it not both.