4:15pm: Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak offered some pointed words with regards to Martinez’s shoulder and offseason training (Twitter links via The Athletic’s Mark Saxon): “Obviously, there’s a history with Carlos’ shoulder and it would be probably in everybody’s best interest if he maintained a constant or perpetual approach to that program.”
More specifically, Saxon notes that the organization would’ve preferred a greater emphasis on physical therapy than strength training. He emphasizes that the Cardinals organization does not question the level of work that Martinez put in over the winter.
9:25am: The Cardinals have shut down righty Carlos Martinez from throwing for two weeks, per MLB.com’s Jenifer Langosch Twitter links). While there’s no concern of structural damage, the club believes that the hurler needs to build up shoulder strength.
Given the timing of the news, it seems reasonable to anticipate that Martinez will not be ready to join the rotation on Opening Day. There are indications the club may prefer to utilize him in a relief capacity, though even in that case it’d seem prudent to chart a conservative course. Beyond the immediate needs, the Cards have to protect their future investment in Martinez ($34.5MM over three years, plus two options).
Martinez, 27, has mostly been healthy and productive since joining the Cards’ rotation on a full-time basis in 2015. But he has dealt with some health issues in that time. Things came to a head last season, when shoulder troubles sidelined him for a stretch and forced him to return as a relief pitcher late in the season.
It’s hard to know just what to make of this latest news. Martinez could respond well to the strengthening program and jump right back into action. Then again, the shoulder is a complicated part of the body; uncertainty there is most unwelcome for any hurler. We’ll just have to see how Martinez progresses. For the Cards, the news represents an early test of the club’s pitching depth.
This issue is probably much larger than the Cardinals are leading us to believe. This is similar to the Mark Mulder saga.
That’s a definite. Martinez has always seemed like a head case. Never injured early in his career, after one serious injury, he may be shutting himself down when he feels the least little stress. I’m 100% Positive Mozeliak wouldn’t want to sign Keuchel as a number 3 starter. However, with the exception of Flaherity (spelled wrong), all other suggested starters may not make it through March-April.
If you’re going to post your inside information for every Cardinals related topic, at least learn how to spell the names of our players. It gives you 3% more credibility, bringing your grand total up to 5%.
Why bring in Keuchel for $15-20+ million a year when we can get nearly the same performance out of our prospects for league minimum? See that? You’re thinking like a GM now!
Call somebody out for not knowing how to spell a name a confusing name (and admitting to it) and then suggest Keuchel could be had for $15 mil a year. I know who I think has less credibility here.
Pretty sure he said 15-20+. With this market it hard to guess what any of the top free agents will sign for.
To be fair, I don’t see Keuchel even signing for 15 mil a year, so even the assumption of the range is a bit off. He wanted 4-6 years at 20+ a year I believe? Meaning even to get him to sign a 2-3 year deal I think someone would have to at least meet the minimum of 20/yr. I’d say the range is more 20-25/yr depending on length. 2/50 or 4/80 would be my guess.
I don’t think there’s 80 million dollars out there for Keuchel unless it’s Philadelphia offering it. I just don’t see enough teams in on the guy to get him to a deal of that length.
If you really feel prospects can do the job of keuchel good luck
Thanks guys for backing me up. My whole point is out of the starting 5 pitchers as suggested by Mozeliak, 4 of them have physical question marks for 2019. Hopefully those question marks are erased during Spring Training.
This isn’t a Mulder saga. 1. Mulder pitched all of 2005 with serious, shoulder problems that necessitated major shoulder reconstruction.
Carlos having weakness in his shoulder at this time isn’t optimal, but is not a diagnosis of major injury at all.
If there is a time to be cautious, its in ST. Take the time needed now to build up strength around the joint, make sure any inflammation is flushed out.
Keuchel will not be a Cardinal period. If they spend any money it will to lengthen the bullpen.
If you remember the Cards continued to say that Mulder was fine, they were not worried, the MRI looked good, then bam…out for an extended period. This looks like the same situation, Cards leading all to believe that he is not as bad as he actually is, this injury 1 week into spring training is puzzling…
Uh…you’re in denial here. Martinez poor mechanics are the issue and this shoulder thing should be of great concern.
They should have traded Martinez for a haul last offseason if not earlier than that. Rumors of him staying in the bullpen and now this. None of this is sounding positive for him and this season
Nice hindsight
Ha ha . That’s true.
But, but … Waino is a starter, really, for sure, according to Shildt and some Cards Kool-Aid drinkers.
Nothing to worry about, as Mo continues to ignore Keuchel or other possible moves.
Should we just ignore Gomber and Gant and Hudson and Reyes and PoncedeLeon? The Cards have a ton of starting pitching depth, they dont need Keuchel.
Correct. The last things the Cards’ need is pitching. A power hitting right fielder is another matter.
The mandating to Schmidt that Fowler be the everyday starter in right field just is insanity. Fowler better have a strong Spring
I do believe Martinez will be fine. They caught this early. It’s frustrating but he does have a history of performing well and he’s young.
They should sign Harper.
The cards have a plethora of pitching options but do they have enough frontline pitching options? With Martinez as a reliever that hurts the front line group. Reyes is probably going to have to be a reliever at least for this season. That leaves Mikolas and Flaherty at the front end with Wacha, Waino, Hudson or Ponce/Gant/Gomber for the last 2 slots. Enviable depth but none of those guys could expected to give you what Keuchel can. But he reallly only makes sense on a short term deal for STL. So I don’t see it.
They should give Fowler a month batting in front of Goldschmidt. If he can’t hit there he can’t hit anymore.
The rumors of him staying in the bullpen stemmed from him coming back from injury last season and mowing people down out of the pen. I like him in the pen. He winds up easily in the dugout and then he’s out there on the mound shaking like a child trying to contain his excitement. It’s no wonder his problem has always been replicating the same motion consistently.
Yeah it wasn’t the durability concerns at all…
It’s obviously something wrong with his rotator cuff or something less significant if he keeps ending up not pitching because of it.
Might just be best to keep him in the bullpen this year as a weapon and for him to get his arm some rest in terms of IP to be ready for 2020. He can be a HUGE weapon in the bullpen anyway and then this would allow him to work on arm strength all year.
Not surprised at all by this. Hicks is next, and you can bank on Waino and Wacha to be hurt sometime this year too.
Bad shoulders are a pitcher’s worse enemy. Hard to repair them to where they can return to how they used to pitch.
Dallas Kuechel should get a call.
“Martinez, 27, has mostly been healthy and productive since joining the Cards’ rotation on a full-time basis in 2015. But he has dealt with some health issues in that time.”
So…..which is it? If he has dealt with health issues, he hasn’t been healthy.
All pitchers deal with health issues. The ones that throwing 180+ innings are the ones that get labeled mostly healthy though.
Already? Geesh
Oh crap, phones ringing at Kuechels agent yet?
NO, because Mo is a cheap åss.
Mo…..and/or DeWitt……he has a very closely guarded Wallet
Mid season – if we are not in the race . He should be sidelined and look towards surgery .
I hope Gomber gets a look as our 5th starter .
It will be Gant, as he is out of options and pitched well last year
There’s room in the bullpen for Gant. He doesn’t have it locked up because he’s out of options.
Gant is on this roster one way or another unless they trade him.
The problem is his mechanics. Look at his delivery. All that strain and torque he put on his shoulder with every pitch. I’m not surprised at all that this is happening. He needs to change his delivery or this will continue to happen.
Thank you, Captain Pitching Coach, for your keen insight.
No, just intelligent enough to know.
…hence why every MLB team is contacting you to be their pitching coach right now
Get over yourself Clepto…internet tough guy
Another internet tough guy to back up internet tough guy…glad you guys stick together
as does extremely biased, closed minded moron fans, such as yourself.
Lol clepto…you come on here bullying people and telling them how dumb they are and then you have the audacity to call me biased and a moron…you are to full of yourself…hey keep hiding behind your computer and acting tough instead of having adult debates about baseball
how do you debate? you may actually be dumber than themed and thats a tough stretch. you are blindly pro cardinal. that you are incapable ofndebate and reason, little man.
Lol the big bad bully is back…I guess something else went wrong in your life so now you are on here again trying to make yourself feel better…it ok..we all hit rock bottom sometimes…it’s just that other people handle it better than you…it must suck when nobody likes you…but keep coming on here looking like a fool…i find it very entertaining
You see how I don’t correct your mistake clepto…because I understand that sometimes you just make mistakes…you have to point every mistake out because you are so insecure and really have nothing intelligent to say in the matter…must suck to be you
Every time a pitcher gets hurt, it’s blamed on mechanics. Just accept that there is no such thing as perfect mechanics. People’s bodies aren’t designed to throw with that much force all the time. Just about everybody that throws hard will break down eventually, “perfect mechanics” or not.
And mechanics can play a roll. Half of the people on here that says stuff like that, clearly has never played organized baseball.
Remember back when baseball gurus exclaimed that Mark Prior had perfect mechanics?
Martinez has explained what his problem is. He hurt himself then he started pitching not to hurt himself causing himself to hurt himself.
“…the same concerns that hounded Carlos Martinez throughout this past season and left the righthanded pitcher “afraid,” in his words, to throw at full strength have resurfaced and halted his spring training…
Throughout the 2018 season, Martinez experienced difficulties and soreness in and around his shoulder. He saw significant decreases in his velocity at times and admitted that a few times he pitched hesitant — scared that a full-strength throw would make his shoulder come apart. The Cardinals outfitted Martinez with an offseason plan to build strength and be ready for spring training so that weakness in and around the shoulder had been addressed.
Shildt said the program did not meet its intended goals, and that has forced the team to rewrite Martinez’s spring training.”
stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland…
In other words Martinez did not follow the program that the Cardinals set out for him and he is still hurt.
Well, that did not take long.
It was too late to trade him by last year then. He’ll do well and it might help the team for him to start out on the dl. Give Gant and Poncedeleon playing time. Start one and have the other go behind Cecil as the opener. Gives Bret a potentially less stressful role while raising the number of lefties per appearance.
Cecil as an “opener” bahhhahhh. We will be lucky if he can be a mediocre reliever. The opener is silly in itself but you just randomly toss cecil’s name. Couldnt think of anyone else? Really?
Dakota Hudson to the rescue.
wouldn’t count on it. But wait they signed Andrew Miller! I hope Cardinals fans soon realize what is going on.
No problem cub fan. They will still finish ahead of you. They are absolutely loaded with pitching. They are pitching rich.
you might well be the dumbest cardinal fan EVER. seriously, you are dumb enough to make that statement??? even if I was a cardinal fan, I would call you an idiot….which you are.
i really hope you do not vote. and if you do, thank god its only 1 wasted vote.
Don’t let name calling get in the way of facts. The Cards biggest run last year came without Martinez. They once again who do no research are pitching rich with some of the best young arms in the game today. Count on it.
“they once again who do no research are pitching rich….”
huh??
Please re-read my first comment, with PARTICULAR attention to name calling.
Next time edit BEFORE posting. It might help your generally poor reputation as a commenter.
I feel stupid just by reading your comments
Lol Clepto acting like he is the smartest guy here when his comments prove that he is anything but…keep looking like a fool
cards81: “oh no, someone is saying something possibly bad against my cardinals. cant be true. just cant!”
Lol you actually said nothing bad about the cardinals…you only tried to talk down to others and really had no opinion on the cardinals…I mean does this make you feel better about yourself…coming on here to only talk down To others…seek help my friend
are you done yet?
why did you capitalize “To”?
Is this team still loaded and ready to make the playoffs?? I didn’t think they were before this.
But, Derrick Goold and most the Post-Dispatch staff would tell you otherwise!
That’s the P-D staff that has yet to criticize Mo for trading for Ozuna and paying as much as he did, knowing Ozuna had a bum shoulder.
They probably don’t criticize him because they feel it was a good trade. When Alcantra, Sierra, or Gaston make an impact in MLB games then come back and say I told you so. For now, Mo has traded 34 pretty good innings of Alcantara, who has his own injury and control problems, -1.3 bWAR of Sierra, and nothing from Gaston for Ozuna who was still an above average hitter even with a nagging injury.
To answer your question yes…and juiceman you have always proven unknowable when talking about the cardinals
unknowable?
Unknowledgeable lol sorry Clepto
Hey, lowlife scumbag. Yeah- you. How about you stop reflecting on how sad your life is and do something about it rather than griefing the comment section. You might find someone who actually cares about your opinion that way.
STL bullpen will include Reyes, C-Mart, Wacha, and Waino by the end of the year. Wacha has only started 30 games twice in the past 5 years. Reyes has thrown 50.0 IP the last 3 years. Waino’s tank is on fumes. They should definitely check in on available starting pitching. Keuchel, Gio, Kluber, something crazy like a bad contract swap with Arizona for Greinke? Ozuna is also rumored to start on the DL. Sorry…the IL.
Greinke has the Cardinals on his NTC……hates the midwest.
They’ll trade for some sketchy #4 starter…..one who needs some adjusting to be “really good”…….LOL
Cards have the available payroll to add Keuchel and Harper…..if they wanted to.
How are you figuring this out?. Greinke is still a really good pitcher. and is worth a lot more than a sketchy 4.. His contract is bloated but still worth a lot.
What payroll are you referring to? You think the have 55 million just sitting around to help? You think they are going to put a 16 million per year player to the 4th OF spot? Come on..
tdtd1515 we are actually on Grienke’s no-trade clause.
Why would the cardinals look outside when they have Gant, Hudson, ponce, Reyes and Gomber to step in…I wish people who came on here would actually know something about the cardinals before commenting
i wish you knew something, but thats asking WAY too much.
Lol like your opinion matters
certainly less “unknowable” than yours….
Call Kuechel’s agent. See if he’s down for a 1-yr deal.
Carlos was supposed to be strengthening his shoulder all winter what’s 2 weeks gonna do
He’s got great stuff but he’s not going to give you 180 – 200 innings a year. Staying in the bullpen would be the best move.
Who cares!!….Ray Liotta quit smoking cigarettes with Chantix!!!!!
Go get Kuechel you turds.
$ 20 million a year for a slight upgrade over what we have for $500,000. Think like an owner, not a fan.
Can you define slight upgrade? I agree with general premise, but I’d feel uncomfortable expecting those guys to only be slightly worse than Kuechel of a full season.
Unless they plan on retaining Goldy and Ozuna, probably a good year to go all in.
I’d expect over the next 4 years for Keuchel to only be a marginal upgrade over Gomber
Time to sign Kuechel
Sounds like maybe someone was a bit lackadaisical in their offseason program.
Amen to that!!! Bet he wasn’t lackadaisical when it came to “party down” the past offseason. Ought to be fined.
Dis you even read the last sentence of the article? It clearly states the team doesn’t question the work CMart out in during the off-season. Judging someone for something you have no clue about is pretty lackadaisical.
C-mart will go to the pen and be the lock down closer by the end of the year…I actually see a silver lining in this…plus Gant or Gomber easily steps in the rotation…Flaherty, mikolas, Wacha, Gant, Gomber, Ponce, Hudson, Reyes…they still have plenty of pitching
what color is the sky in your world? do you take lots of pills?
Omg I just realized who you are…had to change your name huh…what did you use to be something like 3strikeout or something…lol this is rich
Bringing in a pitcher won’t change this team very much. Given Harper’s apprehension about Philly and Chicago, maybe now is the time to toss a 1 year/$40-45 million offer his way. He’d be protected offensively and defensively. CF killed him.
We have Goldy and Ozuna for 1 year unless we extend Goldy. Carpenter is getting into the wear and tear years age-wise.
Dexter Fowler or JMart on the bench if Bader, Ozuna, or Harper get hurt or slump. Not bad replacement options.
The time to strike is now.
They don’t have the available funds for 2019 to spend that kind of money on him.
They’d need to move several players to make that work
Jeff Todd you should look into Mozeliak’s interview with The Fast Lane on KMOX radio from earlier today, he clarifies a lot of things with Martinez. Namely, he doesn’t expect Martinez to miss any time
This a not really news. He’ll be fine. And the Cardinals will most likely be the team to beat skinflint with the brewers and the reds. I believe the cubbies run is over and you’ll see a drastic decline in there efforts this season. I believe the cubs will pick right up from those 2 most embarrassing losses at home to end there season. There offense was non existent and that pitching staff is actually quite laughable.
Ya I would be worried about that pitching staff if I were them. They’ve basically got nobody to step up if one or more starters go down aside from Montgomery, but that will weaken their pen too. Tough spot to be in
A few years ago, Mo was upset that Shelby Miller came back with a “beach bod” instead of a physique to last pitchers through a major league season. Now, similar sentiments about the off-season conditioning of Martinez. How exactly is the team working with its young players to instill the expectations of preparing between seasons. In neither case was the team insinuating the player got fat and lazy, just that the team didn’t like what the player was doing. When the team doesn’t come out and say “we said to do this, but the player did that,” it makes me think the team isn’t doing its part to teach young guys how to prepare.
Dallas Keuchel will give you 15 wins and 175 to 200 innings. He will provide the Cardinals a proven playoff pitcher. Micholas, Flaherty and Keuchel (spelling may be off) would be great in the playoffs; and would be competitive to other teams
Hard to commit to Wainright, Martinez and Wacha when they have failed the last 3 years to pitch an entire season. There is plenty of ways to incorporate the remaining young pitchers.
I’m inclined to agree with that
This guy just can’t stay healthy. Its a shame because when he is, he is seriously good.
Mark Saxon and the athletic are not great sources of information. Over priced, long winded, and melodrama laced articles. It’s not worth more than the three free articles a month. If you insist on getting Cardinals info from that lousy news source, the only relatively reliable writer is Bernie Miklasz.
What did he do over the off season? How does this happen that a player shows up nit ready!