The Nationals have continued to be mentioned on the periphery of the Bryce Harper bidding, but in a Friday-morning interview with NBC Sports Washington, managing principal owner Mark Lerner again suggested that Harper will not be returning to Washington. Lerner originally stated back in early December that he was not expecting to re-sign Harper.
“Nothing’s really changed on our end,” said Lerner. “We’ve moved on, as I said [in December]. We had to. There was no way we could wait around. Bryce, I’m sure, will make his decision hopefully in the next few days. But we’ve filled out our roster, and we wish him nothing but the best. But, there’s always that — the door is cracked a little bit.”
The “moved on” portion of Lerner’s statement will assuredly generate headlines throughout the day, but it should be noted that his comment loses some teeth given the immediate followup about the door remaining “cracked a little bit.” Lerner adds that the Nats haven’t even heard from Harper and agent Scott Boras in quite some time and that he has “no clue at this point what they’re up to,” which is perhaps even more telling than his somewhat muddied declaration of “moving on.”
At this point, the Harper market is murky beyond the Phillies and the Giants, the latter of whom has reportedly only been interested on a shorter-term deal than Harper has been seeking this winter. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported last night that Padres ownership was holding a meeting today to determine if there was a feasible scenario in which the team could pursue Harper even after signing Manny Machado to a 10-year, $300MM contract, although that was characterized as a long shot and would seem more a matter of due diligence than anything else at this point. Multiple reports out of Chicago have indicated that the White Sox will not be placing a bid on Harper after losing out on Machado.
Phils. Do it.
Get it done!
Walk away.
Agreed. “Sorry, we offered a lot, but apparently you don’t want to be with us.”
The Phils improved the offense & defense with McCutchen, Realmuto & Segura. They need pitching more than Harper. Sign Keuchel and Kimbrel for the same or less money, not to mention less years. Harper and Boras are using the Phils to drive up his market. It’s clear he doesn’t wanna play in Philly so to hell with him.
Spot on Mick!
Please don’t.
Go get him Rockstar GM.
The term “Rockstar” refers to someone mega successful in their field, and not someone devoid of the substance.
rock star – a famous singer of rock music
rock star – a famous singer
Has nothing to do with success or talent. Just notoriety.
Your taste in music must be seriously lacking…
I’ve been thinking about something lately. I would imagine that a player like Bryce Harper is likely taking it easy this offseason. Being lighter on the training perhaps, so as not to risk some sort of training related injury. Imagine the amount of money he may lose if he hurt himself like Lindor (or any variety of injuries).
Even without the missed spring training time I am wondering whether he is in less than optimal shape as he is likely babying himself all winter (which is understandable and the smart way to go).
This is obviously 100% speculation but it is a thought that I have been having lately as I prepare for fantasy baseball drafts. Anyway sorry to take up space with this conjecture, back to people complaining about the slow pace of the offseason
JD Martinez had a monster season despite the delayed signing. Harper is a professional athlete that probably has a team of trainers/nutritionists/etc. that he works with during the off-season. I wouldn’t expect him to be a different player because of free agency
JD is a good counterpoint to my speculation, I appreciate the reply
Johnrealtime, others may not appreciate just how rare this simple exchange was. Admitting potential fault when presented with evidence of a differing narrative?! Seriously, your reply here was an underratedly beautiful thing.
Harper has always been a workout freak; his training is legendary. I doubt he’s let up on that even without being signed. I think hyper-athletes just have to do that kind of stuff because it’s in their nature. Plus, Boras has a state-of-the-art training facility that supposedly rivals any Major League team’s. Harper is, supposedly, a pretty disciplined guy all-around. He obviously doesn’t drink or party; he’s married and very religious. I would guess he’s still working out pretty hard.
Everything Harper does is legendary, at least in his mind. The Nat’s had one of the highest payrolls in MLB and were expected to breeze through the division but Bryce spent the entire 2018 season trying to not get hurt. He was hitting .214 at the All star break and teams that didn’t think they had a chance at the beginning of the season were 9 games up. He didn’t dive for any balls and treated the outfield wall as if it was kryptonite. Whoever signs him is making a big mistake. He is a selfish loser. He made 2018 not about the Nat’s winning another division title but about keeping Bryce safe.
And the funny thing about all of this is how Philly fans have been trolling the Nat’s boards the last few years saying he was a bum and how over-rated he is are now begging for him to sign with the Phils.
People say he can hit 35-40 HRs in Philly but it’s not that hard to find poor fielding, bad base running outfielders that can hit 35-40 HRs in Philly and for a lot less money.
Don’t count out the Nat’s. The Lerner’s love this guy and letting him sign with the Phils just doesn’t seem likely considering the Lerner’s history. Plus after watching how those filthy philly fans turned on his buddy Jayson Werth I doubt he will sign there. it’s obvious he doesn’t want anything to do with Philadelphia.
I completely disagree. I’m sure he’s probably not doing any non-training or non-baseball related activities like playing pick-up basketball or riding dirt bikes etc but I’m sure he’s playing hard expecting to start the season and have a good start to justify his contract. In fact, I remember seeing training footage of him this week. These are modern day professional athletes where training is a lifestyle.. It’s not like the 60’s where players come into spring training out of shape and they use March to get in shape. I’m SURE Manny and Harper are taking care of themselves because they probably want to get off to a great start in 2019 to justify their huge contracts.
Harper is not taking it easy, he trains up a storm in Las Vegas every off season. His Dad runs him ragged!
Hal / Cashman STOP BEING CHEAP AND SIGN HARPER !!!
Harper is not needed by the Yankees. It is not a good business tactic to sign a player just because you can when you do not need him. Don’t need his bat, don’t need his defense, don’t need him for marketing. One 300 million dollar outfielder is enough
You aren’t being cheap if you have millions in the bank but refrain from buying a Ferrari when you’re already driving a Lambo
I disagree:
I mentioned a way to make it happen by sending Stanton to LAD, Elsbury to San Fran, Joc Pederson and a top 20 LAD prospect to San Fran and the Yanks Fred up 44 mill and then sign Harper who is a better fit at 26yo and left handed bat.
To answer some concerns regarding Harper’s defense compared to Stanton who has become strictly a DH clogging outfielder who belongs in right and isn’t quick enough for Yankee Stadium left field.
Prior to the 2018 season, Harper had been worth 0.2 defensive WAR over the first six years of his career. Basically, he was a neutral defender. The idea that defense would be held against him a year later would have been a hard concept to grasp.
Harper isn’t a Gold Glove candidate in right field. But the idea that his defense is an albatross just isn’t backed up by the facts of his career.
Harper has 184 career HR and .900 OPS through his age-25 season. Only 10 players have ever done that. The other nine: Alex Rodriguez, Eddie Matthews, Jimmie Foxx, Mel Ott, Mickey Mantle, Frank Robinson, Mike Trout, Albert Pujols, and Ken Griffey Jr. Everyone else on that list is either in the Hall of Fame, belongs in (Rodriguez) or will eventually be a first-ballot inductee (Trout and Pujols).
Next question will be why would Dodgers not just sign Harper over Stanton?
1- Stanton bats RH which is s need for LA
2- Stanton already stayed he would waive no trade for LA
3- Stanton at age 29yo has 9 years including this season at a salary cap hit of 22mill which undoubtedly will be allot more cap friendly then Harpers
4- Stanton plays a very solid RF which the Dodgers could use an everyday RF while Yanks have Judge and Harper can slot over to left.
5- Stanton proved he can handle big media cities
Next question why would San Fran do this?
1- they are rebuilding and adding a you g player like Joc who is a California kid plus a prospect is a very good start.
2- Elsbury has medical insurance and won’t cost San Fran anything until he’s healthy other then salary cap hit if 22 mill.
3- San Fran can send a salary back like Cueto or the Shark to the Yanks to help off set salary if need be.
4- Elsbury already stayed he would waive to play in San Fran
Last question from Yankee fans is wtf would we want Harper over Stanton and why would we give Stanton away and not get anything back?
1- Harper 26yo left handed bat firs I. Yankee Stadium
2- Harper played cf and wasn’t too good but if he can play cf he can certainly handle LF at Yankee Stadium, a position Stanton looked lost at last season the few chances he was placed there.
3- Stanton plus Elsbury frees up 44 mill so yes your not getting anything in return but your freeing up large cap space and your getting a younger more versatile player who will not clog up the DH spot!
In a million years the Giants wouldn’t want Elsbury unless the Yanks paid 90% of his salary. Cueto will likely excel after his TJ surgery and Shark could actually still be useful. Unfortunately just about any scrub would likely be better than Elsbury..
Let’s forget about any Ellsbury for Cueto talk because it’s not enough of a benefit for the Yanks and insurance is covering 75% of his contract.
However, will Giants fans STOP ACTING AS IF CUETO WILL RETURN BACK TO FORM. He’s NOT a 23 yo recovering from TJ. He is a 33 yo who will miss most of 2019. To act as if it’s highly likely he would be a 1-3 quality starter is a complete joke and you should be happy if the Yankees did anything that helped you save $22 mil.
Nothing about this potential trade has ANYTHING to do with what Ellsbury might do on field. The ONLY reason why the Giants MIGHT be interested is to shed salary from Cueto. The guy who is recovering from TJ surgery, not expected to return before August and who is owed 3/$71 mil for his age 33-35 seasons. Yeash. Why is this hard to understand? You move his contract, collect insurance from Ellsbury’s deal and re-purpose that money for someone else should be their mindset.
Dodgers dont Want stanton.
It’s way easier said than done.
Yes, because the dodgers are just itching to send joc and a top20 prospect to their biggest division rival.
Fyi this isn’t “fantasy sports”. You gotta pay attention to how this stuff works in the real world
This trade makes some varying amounts of sense for the parties involved, but I don’t see it having any chance of happening.
The Giants aren’t rebuilding, but rather retooling so they can try to stay competitive while building the farm back up. Rebuilding teams typically don’t pursue guys like Harper. Joc would improve the Giants roster, but the guy has two years of control left, which again isn’t the best fit for a rebuilding club when they’re also potentially paying a mostly useless Ellsbury. You’re right that trading another contract could offset money to maybe have this all make sense, but then you have to deal with the fact they did all that so that the Dodgers could have another star player to bash homers against them. Not going to happen, especially for marginal improvements for a team that’s rebuilding in this hypothetical.
For the Dodgers, they simply don’t have the money. Evidence points to them being unable — not unwilling — to shell out the same payrolls they’ve had for years. The new owners put an unsustainable payroll short-term so that they could compete right after buying the club without hindering their ability to develop a deep farm. The plan since day 1 was to lower payroll to high-yet-sustainable levels after a few years once that farm blossomed into what it is today. They took on so much debt early on that MLB has mandated them in the past to lower costs and raise revenue, and the team sent a memo to investors just last offseason claiming to have payroll under the luxury tax for the 18-21 seasons. They cleared Puig and Kemp in order to sign Pollock, and now their hands are tied. No Stanton, no Harper, no Machado. And again, they’d be trading Joc and a good prospect to SF, which they almost certainly wouldn’t want to do.
For the Yankees, they’d like a one-for-one swap of Stanton and Harper, especially if they get rid of Ellsbury. But I don’t see this trade happening without also losing either young talent to SF or taking on a bad contract in exchange for Ellsbury. They get the best out of this deal, but it’s not a 100% given they’d take it.
This drives me crazy too. Is Cueto a freak of nature who could come back as his old self more or less? Sure.
Is it even remotely a sure thing? No way, there’s a much higher chance of him not being the same, and a fair chance that he’ll never be a useful pitcher again.
His contract is guaranteed, so any value he brings in 19-21 would be nice, but at this point you have to treat him as a sunk cost with some upside
I am a Dodger fan and in no way would want Stanton. He is not needed at all. The team is projected to win 100 games and filled with young talent both now and later. Why bail out the Yankees for making a stupid trade?
Actually, the Dodgers don’t know what they want.
A) Yankees don’t have a problem with Stanton. Fans of the team and haters are acting as if they do but there’s no indication of that.
B) Harper’s FA didn’t sneak up on the Yanks. Every team looks at payroll from a 3 to 5 span,not year to year. They knew who would likely be available for FA in 2019 when they made that trade for Stanton.
C) In a “down year” Stanton still hit close to 40 homeruns with a decent ba/ob/slg slash. I doubt they have buyers remorse and I’m sure they don’t view his contract as an albatross.
jogo, The Dodgers don’t know what they want? They have kept the roster fairly stable and keep on winning. Lots of young talent, smart front office. They have a better idea of what they want than most professional sports franchises.
Down year? Actually, closer to normal after his career year in 2017…with 211 strikeouts. They are stuck with him for 10 more years. Why? Because nobody else wants the contract. That is the definition of albatross. Enjoy all those k’s as his production begins to drop.
9 more years at 22mil per fir salary cap purposes. You act as that’s an albatross and nobody wants him but last season San Fran and other teams tried trading for him! Cmon stop with Yankee bias.
That took a lot of scrolling to get past all those words
When that Ferrari is Going to increase television ratings, merchandise sales, ticket sales and create one of the most line ups in the history of baseball to lead you to multiple championships, it’s a bad decision not to.
We shouldn’t get him because we “dont need”?! Dude I want to stay away from whatever you are smoking. Every team in baseball can use talent like this. He’d be Reggie Jackson 2.0
Who’s in LF? Right now, Gardner who had a horrible season offensively and can’t hit lefties right now. Frazier who has to shake off the rust and despite solid numbers in small sample sizes is still somewhat unproven and Ellsbury. Yanks are one injury away to Hicks or Gardner from being in a really bad shape with ZERO AAA depth.
Who are the left handed hitters we have to take advantage of YS’s short RF fence? Hicks the switch hitter and Gardner who I already mentioned.
Harper makes the Yankees a much more well rounded offensive squad. Yes, pitching is a need but I assume Cashman isn’t interested in Keuchel and the demands for Kluber, etc were probably too high.
Harper can play LF and we need to stop saying he wouldn’t have a place. Also, to @billybballz Cashman was well aware of Harper’s pending FA when they acquired Stanton. If they do want Harper then my guess it would have nothing to do with Stanton at all.
Simply put we have a hole in LF. Gardner is no longer an everyday bat and is LH. Frasier hasn’t fully proven himself in the Show and coming off a major concussion. Yanks are seriously lacking an everyday LH bat. Harper could play LF or play RF since Judge stated he would move to LF if Yanks signed Harper.
Oh boy! We’ve moved on. . .unless you are going to give us a blue light special. Suitors are dropping like flies. Boras no likey. Here comes the mystery team. This may turn into the proverbial “mexican standoff” between Boras/Harper and the Phillies. This might be awhile.
I wonder how many people reading this know what a blue light special was 🙂
Don’t worry Boras minion in Heyman will suggest five teams are interested in Harper
Phillies are bidding against themselves
You do not know who is bidding on Harper
Well part of the reason for our not knowing is that the market is minuscule, embarrassingly so.
I believe (though clearly don’t know since I’m not part of the negotations) is that there are true “mystery teams” that are involved and in on the process, or the Giants are not limiting themselves to shorter deals. Just because it’s a Boras negotiation doesn’t mean that all of the players are being reported
You assume that. The Padres signing Manny for 10/$300 proves that fans and writers don’t know as much as we think we do. I give Boras a ton of credit. He will likely get a deal north of $300 mil, even if it’s just $301 mil.
$300,000,000………..AND ONE PENNY!
No, it just seems like he doesn’t want to play there. Holding out for another suitor.
I always thought Philly was the most likely destination. But I have to think there some small chance that Ted Lerner jumps in at the last minute to keep him from landing with a division rival, where they’d have to watch him bash against them 19 times a year. Not only tough for an owner to take, but they will probably take tremendous flak from their fans if Bryce puts up HOF numbers right up the road in Philly. That would be a dagger.
I think the Nats get him. No other team really makes sense for his legacy. Giants, Phil’s? Nah. Nats beat out Manny’s $300mil by a bit for bragging rights and it gets done.
Hope he signs with the Padres and we never hear from him again.
Gosh. Bryce made right field so boring as a season ticket holder and I’ve been a season ticket holder since 2005. Decent hitter, slow base runner with mistakes, okay right fielder and a great arm. Last year, he went into a world where he was trying to hit home runs during pretty much every at bat. .249 average. I’d rather wait for Mike Trout to become available next year and maybe pay to bring in Keuchel this year.
Watch out for the sleeping GIANTS!
How does their OF look without him?
Awful…worse than Awful!
Why would Harper want to lose for 70% of a 10 year deal?
49-113 every year? I doubt it
You’re not understanding what I said. I said the giants would have at least 7 losing seasons if Harper signs with them. Outside of Longoria they have no hitting outside of MadBum they dont have much pitching. Their bullpen sucks. Mark Malanceon blew a save his first time with the giants. Thats not a good thing.
It’s rare when a comment can cramp in that much misinformation.
Heard the Nippon Hamfighters are in on the sweepstakes as well
Don’t think this is a case about money because all reports have said he is turned down multiple ten-year offers of over 300 million. You get the feeling he has just not gotten that offer from the team he wants and they are holding out for it. At this point if he signs in Philadelphia you have to know it is just because they were the highest offer and he felt he had no choice but to take it not because he actually wants to be there.
And despite the clamor of many “win now at all cost” fans, there are also Phillies fans who share Bryce’s disdain of him being in red pinstripes. T’nT: talented and toxic. Walk away.
It’s truly bizarre (if the reports are true and it’s not just Boras playing the media to get the Phils in a bidding war with themselves) that Harper wouldn’t want to play in Philly. He’d be immediately beloved. And it’s not as if most baseball fans know his DRS or UZR/150 to…harp on his bad defensive metrics. He’ll always be a productive offensive, power left handed, middle of the order batter. That just so happens to be what the Phils need most. They need to offer him the most and show their commitment towards the future. If he is about winning, the Phils could be a powerhouse as early as this year. And with Rendon, Arenado and Trout being UFAs in the next two offseasons, that should entice him more.
Not to mention if Bohm becomes the 3B prospect the Phils need him to be and/or Adonis Medina and Spencer Howard make this rotation stronger and cheaper. A rotation of 1. Nola 2. Arrieta/#2-type/maybe Keuchel 3. Medina 4 and 5. Howard, Pivetta, Velasquez, etc. That’s a helluva team and should appeal to Harper. If $330M isn’t enough to quell out the occasional boos, I’m not sure what is. He’ll earn well over $400M in his career. He gets paid like that because he’s so naturally gifted that the whole stadium could be booing him, and he can still remain locked-in.
Tom from Philly
“He’d be immediately beloved.” Not by all and not if he starts 2019 like he did 2018…….215/.364/.465 pre all star (more proof the AS game is a popularity contest)
“it’s not as if most baseball fans know his DRS or UZR/150 to…harp on his bad defensive metrics” Real fans don’t need to know it….just to see it.
“Not to mention if Bohm becomes the 3B prospect the Phils need him to be “….”While Bohm has worked on his defense at third, the jury is still out about whether he will be able to stay there.”…(MLB.com) …..” Defensively and on the base paths he offers very little and he mostly a bat-first player.”(Fangraphs)….most think he will be better suited for first…where Hoskins is.
“He gets paid like that because he’s so naturally gifted that the whole stadium could be booing him, and he can still remain locked-in.” Really? To quote Tom Bosewell of the WaPo ….”When the most famous player on the team can’t go 10 days without failing to run out a groundball or overthrowing a cutoff man by 15 feet or throwing to the wrong base or being caught unprepared in the outfield or on the bases, it’s hard to demand total alertness from the other 24.” Does that sound locked in?
Harper will be a mistake for the Phillies at the asking price and I have seen a lot of mistakes in the 57 years I have been a Phillies fan.
of course he would be immediately beloved, just like he would be immediately booed when (not if) he doesn’t run out a grounder or doesn’t catch a pop up while the team is on a losing streak. I’m sure the fans will also love his this is a great city and regardless of the money I want to play in Philly attitude after he signs the contract, but they will also hate him when he starts giving apathetic answer to reporters when things aren’t going so good. c’mon Phills! sign him already! I can’t wait!
I’ve thought the Giants all along. Think about it. They’re so bad off with dead contracts they can’t even tank; it’s not an issue of pawning them off.
So why not add to your lineup, and hope that at some point Longo, Cueto, the Shark all have that one good year out of 3 at the same time. Now add Harper, and you’ve got something going. And there’s some commercial money in Harper.
Meanwhile they can rebuild. They’ve got the money; franchise is the biggest license to print it besides Boston. And they’ll keep the “feel good” aspect at Oracle.
I don’t understand the Giants. Most teams have a bad contract or two, but they have SEVERAL. Signing Harper doesn’t close the gap on the Dodgers. Philly seems like a logical fit. Harper doesn’t provide the same value to young, legit big market contenders that already have marketable superstars like the Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Astros, Sox… Philly doesn’t have that, so Harper would help both on and off the field.
Not sure why the White Sox aren’t in, I guess Manny denying them took the air out of their sails. He could make them somewhat relevant and maybe improve those putrid attendance numbers.
It seems that Harper is holding out for other teams, perhaps not for financial reasons, it seems he’s just not excited to play for Philly. Assuming the same for the White Sox, maybe that’s why they aren’t in… they probably feel they have enough egg on their face for one off season. Anyway, I really thought this would be resolved by now.
The Giants really do have a lot of bad contracts, when you look at it.
I don’t understand the Giants. Most teams have one or two bad contracts, but SF has SEVERAL. Adding Harper, doesn’t close the gap enough on the Dodgers. They seem to be in the worse place you can be, in the middle.
Philly makes the most sense. Harper doesn’t provide the same value to large market, young contenders like the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, Sox. Those teams are already stacked with young marketable star talent. For a franchise like the Phillies that don’t have a marketable star, Harper can provide the same value off the field that he can on the field. It’s a little confusing as to why the White Sox aren’t involved. They were so determined to sign Manny, after he turned them down, why not shift to Harper? They must have got an indication from Boras that Harper has no desire to play there and they might feel like they got enough egg on their face for one offseason. I don’t know, just seems odd.
The Giants have signed some poor contracts and the trade for Longoria was the final nail in the coffin for Bobby Evans. That being said the Giants are not one of those tank franchises- until ownership changes they are going to try and compete every year. I get that is the “new era” of the MLB and every team should suck for a 3-5 year window to stash prospects but its not the way the Giants operate. Not to say they dont have suck years- but its usually due to injury or bad play by some key players.
The Giants farm has been so-so, but right now they are one of the wealthiest teams in the market- they built and paid for their own stadium- which they just paid off- they own the land around the stadium so all of these multi-million dollar condos help the bottom line- the fact is they have money – so its their advantage over a lot of the teams out there- might as well push your advantage. Now if Farhan can find some hidden gems like Sabean did , and improve the farm they could become an even more dangerous franchise.
I wasn’t suggesting that SF didn’t have money. The point is, they have DEAD money with Cueto, Samardizja, Melancan, Longoria, etc…. even Posey seems to be rapidly declining. They have to play these guys though, essentially blocking other prospects or young players that might be more effective. They had a GREAT run, a rebuild wouldn’t be the worst thing for them. Unless they think adding Harper closes the gap with them and the Dodgers, which I personally don’t believe at all.
Sometimes, though, competing every year starts with a correction. This is the classic case of throwing good money after bad. If the Giants were to sign him, with so much bad money on the books, what do they gain?
Now, if they resign that they’ll be losing for a few years but want him for a run in 3 with some high picks coming in, that’s a different story. But no way does this current core compete again.
It’s not only about the money. If you top the luxury tax for too long you lose international bonus pool money. That is the thing teams don’t want to lose.
this is 100% a lie by boras
Will someone sign him to something stupid low please! I think most of the world would like him to get a lot worse than he’s expected to get.
Amen.
I know I’m probably beating a dead horse but…. Harpers recent WAR numbers are:
2018 – 1.3
2016 – 1.5
2014 – 1.1
He had the huge 10 WAR season in 2015 and a great 4.7 WAR season in 2017. He’s played in a top hitters ballpark and is an average defensive player. I know he’s an excellent to elite player but I just don’t see those numbers improving in San Francisco. The Dodgers and A’s have the right idea finding great players via waivers and trades and developing them. Farhan has been at the center of that process with both the A’s and Dodgers and I’d like for him to have the opportunity to work his magic.
In my opinion Machado is by far the better player than Harper. He’s an elite 3rd baseman at a premium position and has never had a “down year”. His cluster%#@! of a postseason probably cost him at least 50mil, and the Padres probably bid against themselves to pay 300mil.
I know everyone wants the big horse. But 80% of all mega contracts are regrettable.
Harper would rake in Philly. He’d put up crazy numbers. The pundits say he doesn’t want to play there because the Philly fans are ruthless (sorry Philly, but wasn’t Mike Schmidt booed fairly regularly). Harper is supposedly a pretty sensitive guy and if he goes into a 2 week slump, the boo birds start..
At worst I could say he’s a mediocre fielder, hit in the .240’s two of the last 3 seasons and has been inconsistent from year to year.
At best I could say he is a generational talent and would make any team better. But for 300+ mil I don’t really know if I want him in San Francisco.
Yes, contrary to what Boras has obviously said, Manny is the superior player. Plays elite defense at a premium position. Both just now entering their prime age years. WAR doesn’t lie. Harper’s greatest value is his OBP, but to maximize that you need mashers around him in the lineup.
”WAR doesn’t lie.”
That’s funny.
Manny has never had a bad year? He had a .259/.310/.471 slash with a 2.9 WAR in 2017.
Harper by FAR is the better hitter. Even factoring in Bryce’s poor defense (which is poor but not intolerable) he still has almost the EXACT same WAR in nearly the EXACT amount of games played.
Manny- 926 Games-4,074 PA- 30.2 WAR
Harper- 927 Games-3,957 PA- 30.7 WAR
So factoring in the fact that Manny is considered to be an elite glove and Harper having a below average one Harper’s bat STILL makes him as valuable a player in terms of WAR.
Sounds like u are making an argument for machado.
@padres458 and bbartado
Not sure how you took that from what I said.
@byzzo2016 said “Yes, contrary to what Boras has obviously said, Manny is the superior player”
I showed that DESPITE Harper’s poor defense and Manny’s stellar defense “.Harper’s bat STILL makes him AS VALUABLE a player in terms of WAR”.
I also said “Harper by FAR is the better hitter. Even factoring in Bryce’s poor defense (which is poor but not intolerable) he still has almost the EXACT same WAR in nearly the EXACT amount of games played.
Harper is a much better hitter than Manny and the only reason why he doesn’t have more 5+ WAR seasons is because his defense.
You started to contradict yourself lol.. Showing Manny vs Harper offense and seeing it 30.7 vs 30.2 basically says they are the same hitter yet somehow you think 0.5 WAR more over a huge sample size makes him FAR better? Then you quietly say Manny is considered to be an elite globe and Harper below average lol.
Harper has bigtime power.. Nationals ballpark is neutral at best. I believe Machado will struggle to reach 30 home runs in the heavy Petco Park air. He had it made playing half his games at Camden Yards.
” He had it made playing half his games at Camden Yards”.
Plus 9 games in Boston, plus 9 games in NYY, plus 9 games in Toronto. plus……
Any hitter playing in the AL East has a huge chance to put up big numbers. Just the opposite for pitchers.
southbeachbully
Play the high-low game (remove each player’s highest and lowest WAR) with either WAR (Fangraphs or BB Ref)
Machado fWAR 30.2 – 1.2 -6.6 =22.4
Harper fWAR 30.7 -1.6 -9.3 = 19.8
Machado bWAR 33.8 – 1.6 – 6.9 = 25.3
Harper bWAR 27.4 – 1.1 – 10 = 16.3
Why do we have to remove anything? They both have played equal amounts of time. Bottom line is that Harper is more of an elite hitter but Manny is a much more balanced overall player. However, the total value factoring in everything shows that Harper is on par with Manny. Someone called Manny a MUCH BETTER player and it’s not born out if you really want to use advanced metrics.
Removing the high/low gives a clearer picture , but if that’s not suitable and as you say “if you really want to use advanced metrics.” then I guess you have decided which ones to gauge the “better player”
I can just as easily use this (both advanced and counting)……..
Harper last 5 years bWAR 18.6 (includes his MVP year) 670 games .282/.401/.525 142 HR 620 K’s 468 BB’s
Machado last 5 years bWAR 25.5 719 games .283/.343/.502 154 HR 518 K’s 258 BB’s
Haper’s big advantage….walks, Manny’s advantage…consistency and D
Of course you can probably counter with fWAR and all that does is back up the argument that WAR is subjective since the two main sources disagree.
I guess we just view things differently. I prefer the consistently good to very good type player as opposed to the less consistent.
Have a nice day
Honestly, it’s all about money. That’s all Boras cares about and everyone knows it. You hire Boras because he can get you the most money. Be it contractual, or marketing for a player. Right now they have no one but the Phils so Boras is keeping quiet. He’ll reach out to teams per due diligence and that will be a “rumor” just to hike the price up for the Phils. I just think teams are starting to realize they can get just as much production from other players and it won’t “break the bank”. Ehh I’m just rambling at this point and writing things people already know lol happy Friday everyone. Hopefully Harper signs today!
All these naysayers are going look really, really silly when Harper gets his $330M. It was just a week ago that people were thinking that the White Sox at $175M might be the top offer to Machado.
And to be clear – EVERY team would love to have Harper. Some teams are a better fit than others given payroll and incumbent players, but every team would be thrilled to have him in their lineup.
No one said the White Sox at $175M were the top offer since it had been reported that the White Sox offered more and the Phillies offered more and that the Padres would offer more. People were speculating Machado would get around $250M. He did better and Harper may do better too.
Maybe he’ll just retire.
This just in!! Bryce Harper signs 10 yr 325 mil deal with… Portland Beavers.
M’kay.
By the way, if he is getting Stanton-like offers, the minimum he’d get would be 10/330. Boras isn’t in it to tie the record, he needs to save face and break it. Personally, the second Manny signed 10/300, I thought 10/330 for Harper was inevitable for the Phils. Reports seem to confirm that’s roughly what the Phils offered. 10/330 with a player opt-out going into his age-30/31 season should get it done. But for whatever reason, Harper doesn’t seem to want to be a Phillie. Though, I suspect much of it is Boras playing the media to get every last dollar possible from the Phils.
Matt/ownership: WALK AWAY!!! Already displaying his baseline arrogance and narcissism before he even signs. Despite the talent, Phillies don’t need the toxicity.
This is truly bizarre. Bryce has been nothing but positive for baseball, yet for whatever reason, so many of us Phils fans think he’s toxic. Not at all. Philadelphia not being your dream city is NOT the same as being a bad teammate if/once he gets into the clubhouse and fraternizes with fellow teammates.
Tell that to the Nats he’s tangled with, including the on-camera brawl in the dugout during a game. And as far as his “positivity” for baseball, can’t erase taking my young son to a AAA game he was in during a rehab assignment in Syracuse, where I got to explain to my kid that not ALL baseball stars have vulgarity-laden tantrums in the middle of a game. Was actually hoping the young Harper would grow out of that – not really seeing it in the years since. The only baseball things Bryce can be considered “positive” for are his baseball stats (not disputing the talent, however overpriced), and his love of Bryce. Even my now-older son can see the difference between high quality players and high quality human beings (Trout his favorite). Ends don’t always justify the means – and this is a prime example.
A lot of people grew up thinking Bill Cosby was a high-quality human being. You and your son need to stop assuming such things. He has no idea who Harper and Trout are apart from what they do on the baseball diamond. It drives me nuts when people say, “I met him once and he’s a great guy.”
Philadelphia fans thinking anyone or anything in sports could be more toxic than them is ironic.
That said, I predicted Harper to the Phillies years ago mainly because I don’t think he’d be intimidated to play there.
So you’re blaming the person being attacked (Harper) and not the person that clearly initiated the confrontation AND threw the first punch (Papelbon)?
I think people are way too critical of Harper and I’m not even a fan. He may well have an ego. Show me one athlete who garnered as much attention as he did at age 16 and I’m sure they would have a huge ego. People act as if he’s used drugs, or spat on fans or something else more incendiary. He seems to be a very religious guy off the field at least. I just don’t see what others are saying about him.
Not basing opinion on assumption about Harper (focus of the article and my last post; not Trout). While sorry that I don’t have video of the aforementioned profane tantrum witnessed in person at the AAA level, hope these non-exhaustive citations (second one referencing a prior, different suspension for a post-game celebratory cursing out of an ump) help your understanding that opinions are sometimes based on a body of evidence, and not a one-off experience. Drives me nuts when people choose to ignore glaring and repetitive character flaws.
mlb.com/video/harper-papelbon-go-at-it/c-505505983
google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/mlb/2017/05/30/nationa…
southbeachbully, why are you holding his being a “very religious guy” in his favor? This demonstrates that he is easily led and not a leader.
Watch the video. Pap did start calling him out about not hustling on a pop fly he hit to shallow left, and Bryce initially tried to ignore it and walk it off. Agree with you to that point. But, Harper then reapproached Pap and ran his mouth. Pap did swing first in response to whatever trash was being talked, but Harper was hardly a bystander in this. Never a fan of Pap, even when he was with the Phils, but these two deserved each other. And as to his apparent off-the-field religiousness, maybe — but also not a guaranteed redeeming point these days when the news is regularly plastered with clergy being exposed for their misdeeds. Also, not sure that drug use, fan-spitting, or other equally condemnable acts are the ONLY qualifiers for toxicity. Not being able to play well with others in the sandbox can also be very destructive. Respect your different perspective, but not yet swayed by it. If this guy does end up signing with Philly, I sincerely hope your perspective IS more on target than mine. But it’s going to take several years of him consistently displaying quality of character and true teamwork to convince me – not that that’s his job. Trying to un-see what I’ve watched for years is on me; and that will take time. Thanks for your input.
I don’t buy it. I can’t see the reasoning of Lerner stepping in front of a Harper trade last season only to make one offer at the beginning of the offseason and then not remain in touch even though he’s unsigned with Spring Training underway. After all the contracts/trades and relationship with Boras, for them to take this “door closed” stance is curious. It’s either a lie or bad long term planning.
It’s actually great long term planning. The Nats will have a payroll of roughly $200 million this year, the same as last year. Instead of signing Harper they’ll pay $46 million to Corbin, Suzuki, Gomes, Rosenthal, Sanchez, and Dozier. If they sign Harper now, they go $30-$35 million over budget. Maybe that shouldn’t matter to them, but it clearly does.
If they sign Harper now, they’ll need to dump contracts to get back to their budget.
“Bad long term planning” in regards only to not trading Harper if you knew you were going to take this route.
You can make a valid argument for just about any of the 30 teams about why they should sign Harper but I still believe he will end up north of the border. Toronto has no money on the books passed next season and with Harper in his prime years he will line up perfectly with their window of competition. He will fit nicely into the lineup between Bichette and Vlad Jr. Not to mention the marketing aspect and how he would become the face of an entire country.
I’m pretty sure toronto doesn’t go more then 5 years on contracts, also would be a terrible move imo.
Why would it be terrible for them?
Maybe Harper doesn’t want to play for the Phillies and Boras wouldn’t be talking the Giants if they didn’t make a good offer. I know the problems with Harper playing for the Giants.
Couldn’t you say this about every team? If Harper really wanted to play for the Giants why hasn’t he signed with them? If he really wanted to play for the Dodgers I’m sure he could’ve gotten the 4 year $55 million deal A.J. Pollock got.
What’d really show me that Harper doesn’t want to play for the Phillies is if he takes a deal for way below what they’re offering with someone else.
He wants to play for the Dodgers at the rate he wants. He wants to play for the Giants at the rate he wants. He wants to play for the Padres at the rate he wants. He doesn’t want to play for the Phillies but he will at the rate he wants.
Has he communicated this to you? I ask because you’re very precise listing the teams that Harper wants to play for and the one he doesn’t want to play for.
In each sentence you say he’ll play for the team listed for the rate he wants. If he’ll play for any of them at that rate, then he wants to play for them. He’s going to make a lot of money regardless, so he’s not going to spend the next ten years playing for a team he doesn’t want to play for.
I think the point he’s trying to say that the price he wants is the starting point. If a team isn’t willing to pay him north of $300 mil then that probably eliminates them from the conversation.
Phillies should offer him $301 million (a million more than Machado) and give him 10 minutes to take it or leave it. Otherwise, move on and fill other holes such as pitching. Best of luck to Boras finding a better offer.
Again, he wants the all-time record. That won’t get it done. 11/330 minimum.
Wonder if the Giants could swoop in with a 9/$301 mm front-loaded offer — first three years @$40 mm with an opt-out and years 4-9 at $31/30/30/30/30/30?
He’s not signing for less than Machado (years) and less than Stanton (dollars) period. It’s Boras we’re talking about.
I don’t think the years would matter if the money sets a record. If a team offers 9/$301 then it still a better deal than Manny’s in total dollars and it beats him in aav too.
So the Giants pay $120M for three years of Harper while they rebuild and then he walks ?
The Oakland A’s have just signed Bryce Harper to a 1 year $60 million deal with a club option for 2020 at 35 million. How about that people?
This just in: Bryce Harper has changed his mind about signing with the Oakland A’s and declared for the NFL draft, the NHL draft, and McDonald’s Burger Flipping Academy. Anything to avoid playing in Oakland.
If the Phillies sign him, and i’m in the camp that believes they will, the narrative from many corners will be that they bid against themselves. Especially if the winning total is $330+ MM over 10 years. I just don’t see the Giants, Padres or a “mystery team” going that high.
He obviously is set on a minimum of 10 years and his goal is to top the record for total money. Players are taxed per state that they play in, so when, say, the Orioles play a 3 game series in California, for those 3 days of work, they are taxed at California rates. California had, in 2018, the highest state income tax among the 50 states and the District of Columbia. So, if Harper were to sign with the Giants, instead of the Phillies, he would be taxed, using 2018’s tax rate of 13.3% for at least 117 games (Giants, Dodgers and Padres) instead of Pennsylvania’s 3.07% rate for at least 87 games. That is a huge difference in taxes.
Players take into account a lot of factors when signing and the bigger the star, the more options, usually, that star has. A player like Harper will absolutely take into consideration the tax rates and whether or not his “brand” can make up the difference in total income. Can Harper’s “brand” cover the loss of income through taxes in California, as opposed to Pennsylvania?
DC, thanks to a law passed by Congress, is unable to tax employees who work in DC if they don’t live in DC. Since Harper’s home state is Nevada, and Nevada has no state tax, that means he pays a tax rate of 0 on half of his games if he signs with the Nats..
In Harper’s case, I think brand makes a difference to him.
Come on Artie! 10 years 335mil …..
Trout, Hairper, Ohtani 2,3,4 Let’s go!
Would put the Angels way over the luxury tax….and still with Pujols and crappy pitching. Albert will still be an Angel after Trout leaves in free agency. Think about that.
I still don’t get it. Harper and Machado are good players. But I haven’t seen a 10 year contract not hamstring any club that’s been given a contract for that long. Those franchises always have to eat millions somewhere during that length of time. Dang, the Cardinals make bad 4-year deals!!! (Cecil
How many of those FA were 26 when they were signed?
Time for him to move to sf, they have the money
This is where were at ? When no news is news …
Since Boras has a very good relationship with the Padres, perhaps he’s waiting for Preller to maneuver a deal that involves Myers and a good portion of his salary in order to sign Harper. Myers, Renfroe, Hedges, and Allen to Cleveland for Kluber and a throw-in.
Would love to see Harper go to the Friars. Harper/Machado would be an awesome combo to challenge the Dodgers.
I just heard Peter Seidler interviewed on 1090am and he wouldn’t say the Padres are out of the running for Harper. His tone and careful use of words lead me to think they might have a huge announcement soon. If they pull off a trade, the deal to sign Harper is next.
The Nationals are out and are locked and loaded for 2019.
The Phils are bidding against themselves.
Offer 8 years / 300MM and let Harper twist in the wind.
“…lead to multiple championships. ..”?
Did either ARoid contract lead to that?