TODAY: There has been “significant progress” between the league and the MLBPA about these potential rule changes, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal writes (subscription required). Since these changes have garnered support on both sides, they are seen as “win-win” developments that can be handled in the shorter-term, as opposed to a larger re-opening of the Collective Bargaining Agreement as a whole. In regards to the much more complicated matter of discussing financial issues, MLB and the players’ union are “proceeding with the understanding they would discuss broader economic concepts sometime after Opening Day,” Rosenthal writes.
WEDNESDAY: Major League Baseball has brought the MLB Players Association a new package proposal of potential rules changes, ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan reports.
The sides have been going back and forth on potential tweaks over recent months, all while trading barbs on a variety of matters. There are indications, per Passan, that this latest effort represents a compromise vision that could lead to an eventual deal.
MLB’s new proposal features a willingness to push back the implementation of a pitch clock until after the current CBA expires, per the report. Commissioner Rob Manfred has the power to implement the clock unilaterally but is evidently willing to utilize it as a bargaining chip. It remains to be seen whether the players will make concessions in other areas to oppose such an unpopular but financially neutral rule change.
Other aspects of the proffered approach are at least as notable. Passan says the league would like to implement:
- single trade deadline of July 31st
- three-batter minimum per pitcher (by 2020)
- 26-man roster (by 2020) and 28-man September roster (with 13 and 14-pitcher limits)
- 15-day injured list and 15-day minimum optional assignment
- further limitations on mound visits, position-player pitching, and time between innings
The proposal also contemplates joint studies on more extensive rule changes. Some of the more exotic concepts are due for real-world testing in the Atlantic League. Per J.J. Cooper of Baseball America, the indy ball outfit is slated to function as a laboratory for robot umps and a moved-back mound. The agreement covers other areas as well. Of particular note, Trackman is coming to the Atlantic League.
three-batter minimum per pitcher (2020) that’s huge
Much bigger change than pitch clock IMO
I feel like the vast majority a people who don’t like the pitch clock haven’t actually watched a game with a pitch clock. It’s not even noticeable. What is noticeable is the players move faster, on the rubber, get the sign from the catcher, throw the ball, strike, ball is throwing back and back on the rubber. Repeat.
Go watch a game from the 80s, players were just faster less bs tactics to throw the batter or pitcher out of rhythm.
The reason why pitchers take more time is so they can sustain velo for longer, god forbid you force guys on how to learn how to pitch again instead of throwing hard. Don’t give me the pitchers will just get hurt more, that’s been going on for decades now if anything making them pitch faster between pitches will cause less injuries because they won’t be able to throw max effort every pitch.
The difference between the 80’s and now is hitters are allowed to wear arm guards and thus crowd the plate, umpires will enforce warnings to pitchers throwing inside more than ever before and hitters are allowed to goof around with equipment in-between pitches with zero umpire enforcement.
Eliminate all that and we’ll see the game naturally speed up. And we will see less injuries and less pitching changes. Unfortunately we cannot allow any rule that will harm offensive production. Despite the fact that more scoring hasn’t equated to more popularity hasn’t sunk in with the Commissioners office or MLBPA.
Isn’t offense what saved baseball after the ‘94 strike season? Baseball fans were really pissed off about that.
please stop with this nonsense. Arm Guards on batters, are not the reason why pitchers are experiencing more injuries. You sound foolish, and then everything you say after that just turns into Charlie Brown “blah blah blah”
He never said arm guards cause pitcher injury. You might want to go back and reread both comments.
I agree somewhat with the arm guard theory.
I’ve been saying for years it’s starting to get ridiculous the amount of armor guys wear to the plate now.
I think they should implement a rule that if you wear it to the plate you need to wear it on the bases.
That would prevent guys running from 2nd back over to the 1st base coach and basically undressing while handing the coach an arm full of protective gear.
lmao yes how dare players try and avoid getting broken arms
go away troll
It’s ridiculous how much damage a 105 MPH fastball can do to a human body involved in a billion dollar industry where health is paramount.
The biggest difference between today and 30 years ago is that teams maximized seating capacities by shortening foul territory. There’s something like 2000 fewer foul balls being caught in 2018 than there was in 1988.
Can’t…. pitchers all throw 100 mph now!
Broken arms Strike Four? How about TJ surgeries on the rise? Massive rise since the arm guard era began. Nevermind, you do not care about injuries as much as you claim. And, within 3 years pitchers will begin taking steam off the fastball. The average fastball will drop. Mark it down with your crayon.
“Not even noticeable”, really? So the giant red numbers to the left of the pitcher, from the CF cam, are “not even noticeable”, perhaps if you’re blind? It’s extremely noticeable. The pitch clock sounds good in theory but it’s a pretty big distraction and it will not make a difference as players will just step off/out to re-set it.
Have you been to a game with a pitch clock? It’s an after thought. It’s nothing.
The media guys like Buster Olney have talked to players off the record and a majority have said they don’t even notice it. They can’t say it on the record because the PA is trying to use it as a negotiation tactic.
Buster Olney can push whatever agenda he wants. MLBPA won’t ban it and MLB wants the money from Evoshield.
Notice or not, go run a youtube video from 1989, or even 1984, and look at how far hitters were backed off the plate.
Then look at today’s game and see how close hitters are. The plate coverage is waaaaay better. It has also taken away some pitchers’ ability to throw the curve/slider, especially ones starting inside. Few buckle on the pitch like they did in the 80’s.
Notice or not, they get hit in the padded elbow they go to first base, with a potential warning from the umpire. Hitters will continue to crowd, prolong at bats (pitches per batter has risen over the years), thus a longer game.
They’ve studied this. A game with the same amount pitches, pitching changes one from 1982 and one from 2014. Game in 2014 took 45 mins longer. Commercials nope only account for 10 mins longer, inactivity between pitches account for 28 mins. Try watching Mlb Network once in awhile they put up that graphic all the time.
It’s not debatable pitch clock is needed it will come you will like it, end of debate
Iver – you want to end the debate because you are too inept to think deeper?
If what you said is true, why didn’t you mention the goofing around hitters do between pitches? Why didn’t you mention the constant ball switching between umps and catchers whenever a ball goes in the dirt? Why didn’t you mention how many foul balls or balls in play were done by these two examples? Do you know how many double plays were turned in both game? Probably not. Do they matter? Yes.
More has to be done besides a pitch clock. I realize you work slow, I’ll let you take all the time you need to process this.
I’m not against having a pitch clock, but much like with law, I’m against making changes that don’t have a sound foundational basis. With an average of 400 pitches thrown per game and most players operating under the pitch clock anyway on most pitches, the maximum hope is to shave about a half second to a second off the average time per pitch. Even if we take it down a full second on average (which is doubtful will happen when the averages balance out) that’s an average of 400 seconds per game (or about 6 and a half minutes per game). The basis of the argument is what’s wrong, not the implementation of a pitch clock. If they say, we’d like to add a pitch clock to add a new element or challenge to the game, I’m fine with it. Its the foundation of their argument I don’t agree with.
Its a big change for a very small potential end result that will not really impact the game length or pace of play (neither do I think is a “real” issue as well… its just called baseball).
Just fine the guys who traditionally take over a designated time. No need to change the whole game. Call it a delay of game fine (David Price).
I also think they will see a downswing in fan excitement. The roar of the crowd builds while the pitcher is getting ready to make that big 3-2 pitch bases loaded with a 2-1 score in the bottom of the 8th or 9th. It takes about 30 seconds for that drone to turn into a roar in MLB ballparks.
There is no pitch clock with runners on base. Just a clock til the pitcher gets set
I have and it was absolutely terrible. they did move faster in the 80s but not nearly as fast as they do with a pitch clock. the game just move too fast and it wasn’t enjoyable. I want to enjoy my beer in my hot dog and talk to my friend in the seat next to me.
Good thing your in the minority
Typical. You insult the people who like traditional baseball because you don’t like something the way it is. Hi watch basketball if your attention span is that damaged.
I have and it was terrible. it actually Speed the game up to the point it makes it non relaxing to watch.
I have noticed during Spring games that the Minor League pitchers work within the 20 seconds time frame because they have already experienced it. This may not be a problem in a few years.
That rule, have sence but you prepare a team and special arms for Moments like WS , and Could be decided posibly by such kind of rule
The three batter minimum rile, is by far the most impactful rule change.
I think it is personally absolutely ridiculous…To go from one batter to three is quite a big step. Maybe, make it two batters, but definitely not three.
Pitch clock isn’t a big deal, aND I think pitchers would actually benefit from it. I think they’d notice that it would help them stay in a groove, and help them stay focused better.
Baseball players, especially those with an old-school mentality, are going to resist any changes that are made, that’s just their nature. However, they should be more open to some things, and I think they might actually find change is not always a bad thing..
You are correct Bravesfan…….It’s both Ridiculous and Potentially Disastrous.
The 3-batter minimum needs to come with an exception or two.
Even the Best Relievers will have a bad day once in a while. Having to leave a struggling pitcher in for 3 batters might have a major effect on the outcome of the Game.
“Your team is leading 6-3 in the 7th inning. Your starter is still in, but there’s No Outs, and he has loaded the bases. He’s tired, and needs to come out.
In comes a “Sinker-Ball” RHP (because the 1st 2 guys coming up are RHB)…..but he just doesn’t have his best stuff today.
The reliever walks the first guy (after a serious battle and 11 pitches), pushing a run across the plate. 6-4 now.
The reliever walks the 2nd batter (on 7 pitches), pushing another run across. 6-5
The next batter is a LHB with power.
You have a LOOGY but can’t pull the RP because he’s only faced 2 batters.
He throws a sinker “that doesn’t sink enough” and the LHB hits a Grand Slam…….and it’s suddenly 9-6…..you’re losing, and finally the manager can pull the RP.”
The Manager needs to be able to pull an RP when he gives up 2 runs……or something like that.
Your point is unfortunately self-defeating: That sounds like a way more exciting and well-paced outcome than bringing in the LOOGY
ruthless………You say that because your other comments lead me to believe that “you don’t really LIKE watching” Baseball…..and you want the game to go faster.
I, on the other hand LOVE the game of Baseball, and could watch it (or play it) for hours.
But You Would Rather “Jeopardize The Outcome Of A Game”…. than watch for a couple more minutes…?????? If so…..You’re Bad For Baseball.
You’d rather force a struggling Pitcher to stay in the game and continue to struggle……?????
All I said was that there should be a caveat in the rule to allow a change if “something unusual happens”…..and the game is on the line.
Sounds fair to me.
That’s just a terrible idea. You either have the rule or not. Once you start putting in exceptions everyone will just abuse it
Jeopardize disasterous couple other dooms day words, you must work in media. If a pitcher can’t pitch for 3 batters without getting hurt he probably doesn’t belong in Mlb. You probably want 40 man rosters with 30 pitcher new pitcher for every batter. Stop babying these guys, eventually they’ll learn how to train without getting hurt on every pitch.
I love watching baseball. Not commercial breaks. If the manager could snap his fingers and bring in the lefty, there’d be no reason for the rule. But that’s not the case.
Better strategy beats a better pace any day. Of course we want the LOOGY brought in for that situation, if he even still has a job with him now forced to face a lot more right-handed batters than ever before.
I love watching good baseball. A few extra commercial breaks are worth sitting through if it means the product on the field is that much better.
Three batters would be the death of the LOOGY…
I agree. Make them real pitchers, instead of one batter specialist. Big league pitchers should be able to pitch to more than one batter.
The young fans aren’t watching the games anymore since they take too long and go through long periods of zero action.
I think what Xabial wants is Softball.
Three batter rule is micro management from the top. It has the potential to get a game out of control fast.
Tie game late in the game. Put in Chapman and he cant find the plate. He walks three batters before you can pull him. Put in the next guy and he’s got the bases loaded and no one out. Game’s over.
Do fans really get upset because they pull the pitcher before he’s faced three batters? Do fans get upset with the shift? I think fans enjoy it most when a hitter beats the shift. The fans get upset with the terrible umpiring. Fix the problems, don’t make new ones.
Exactly^^^^^^^
3 batter minimum will also kill a lot of guys markets.
Lefty specialists? Dead.
Guys with control issues (high walk rate but high k rate)? Devalued because you have to keep them in the game when they can’t find the zone.
I get the desire to put an end to the bullpen game. I honestly hate it and I think its bad for baseball. It slows the game down. It kills excitement. It allows teams to circumvent spending money on starting pitching (Oakland/Tampa I’m looking at you… Dallas Keuchel is staring you in the face).
In regards to the shift, I think much like other sports there should be limits on traditional position shifting. Shifting is ok as long as you stay in your general position. But I could see putting an end to having the shortstop in right-center and the 2B in RF and the 1B on the line and the 3B playing almost closer to 2B then 3B. I think there’s a point to which the overshift gets ridiculous. But I don’t think players should be prevented from positioning themselves to make a play.
What about a three batter minimum in the first 6 innings?
How about this. 3 batters minus runners on base. Gives managers flexibility in high leverage situations.
Does that mean the manager can remove a pitcher immediately if the bases are loaded and the other manager decides to counter your pitching change with a pinch-hitter?
OK, I’m joking there. Obviously, the one batter minimum at all times (save for injury) would still remain in effect.
Otherwise, this is a excellent compromise that I wouldn’t mind seeing implemented.
The three batter minimum is a horrible idea. That pretty much eliminates the need for lefty or righty specialists
Yeah… that’s the point. lol jeez
Only one pitching change per inning…
It’s time for the DH in the NL. Pitchers getting out, killing rallys, and getting hurt on the base paths is only holding the league back
If you don’t like NL baseball, then watch AL baseball. There is currently an option for people that like it both ways. Your argument is saying that even though you currently have it the way you want it, you won’t be satisfied until the other side has nothing and you get everything. That is a very selfish way to try and live your life.
Hiflew, I’m a bit conflicted on the universal dh concept myself, but your rebuttal here isn’t an argument advocating for keeping the status quo so much as an emotional beratment of the very suggestion the rule could be changed. Screamer supplies multiple valid arguments, which have been echoed for years, to support his claim. Truthfully, I haven’t heard much a valid argument to maintain the current ruleset outside of a fondness for tradition and history, which I also share. Regardless, this isn’t about being “satisfied until the other side has nothing,” which is a rather absurd, bombastic claim to make about a designated hitter in Major League Baseball. It’s about what is best for the league in the modern era.
I can remember watching more than a couple of games where it came down to how the manager handled the roster and the switches at the end of close games, used to watch Bobby Cox do it all the time, in those cases the better manager usually gave his team the best chance at winning. Now with Bobby, if there was a pitcher in there that he trusted yeah it could burn the Braves, but those types of things were fun to watch. You implement the. DH and to me that takes some of the strategic elements out of the game. Eh maybe I just don’t get it?
If you want an argument, how about pitchers are actual adult big league athletes and not the fragile 4 year old girls made of glass that people seems to treat them like. Pitchers were never meant to be pitching machines. Starters have 4 days between starts. There is absolutely no reason they aren’t learning to bunt or taking batting practice or running the bases.
This is not football. We do not need a completely separate offense and defense. If the universal DH is accepted, what’s the next step? What if you have a weak hitting, fantastic fielding shortstop? Can you have a DH for him too?
And what about the DHs? Is it really fair to the players actually playing defense to say that this guy is going to get paid as much as you as a starter, but he only has to do half as much work as you. Do we really need to change the game this drastically in order to keep fringe guys like Pedro Alvarez in the league?
Major league baseball was never meant to be so specialized.
Pitchers aren’t hitting because they don’t practice. They aren’t hitting because they don’t hit enough to keep their timing up to par. Most athletes can’t only hit for one to two games a week and be effective.
Sure, they could practice on their own time on 95 mph fastballs, but what GM is going to risk their $25 ace getting hit in the face with that wild fastball just for practice?
Hiflew, I could respond to each of your arguments in a lengthy piece, but the efficacy of that move seems questionable anyway. I’ll cherry pick one, common refrain I hear from many traditionalists who want to keep pitchers in the lineup: the notion that pitchers are “adult big league athletes” and “not fragile four year old girls.”
I’m not suggesting they are flimsy, weak tissue paper, but any notion that pitchers are properly equipped to handle major league pitching is completely inaccurate. The NL is essentially the very last league of professional baseball anywhere in the world to still not incorporate the designated hitter. Regardless of your league, most pitchers taste little to no hitting while in the minor leagues, which allows NL teams to use a dh. This results in pitchers who may take an at bat in their first ever start against the best pitching in the world despite not truly picking up a bat in earnest since their high school days. Now we have a high school-level hitter in the box against Clayton Kershaw. These players are not equipped to succeed.
And, yes, it does add some further complexity and strategy to the game. I completely understand that. But the argument there seems similar to asking boxers to hop around on one foot because it’s harder to fight that way. I’d prefer to see both fighters with both feet on the ground. That’s the competition we want, right?
You are right. It was meant for starting pitchers to throw complete games, even if the games lasted 22 innings. Eliminate all the reliever specialists. The starters get 4 days rest between games. (BTW, back in the day when pitchers threw complete games there was a 3 or at most 4 pitcher rotation.)
If you want AL DH only and NL no DH only, then end inter-league play. The Yankees lost Tanaka for a month and Chien Ming Wang forever (after 50 Ws in 2.5 years) running the bases.
Money is the answer. Would the Nationals like to see something like that happen to Corbin after all of the money that they just spent ? That’s why the DH will eventually overtake the NL too. Most NL teams feature 2 weak hitters and the pitcher every third inning and their pitchers get a break every 3 innings…
With an easy 1-2-3 inning. Not so in the AL…
I think hiflew’s response is the worst kind of reaction we see. “Just go watch AL baseball..” I’m a Mariners fan so that’s pretty easy for me. But why should somebody go watch AL baseball to experience how a lineup should look? The NFL and NBA both have conferences, much like we have the AL and NL and yet the game is played with exactly the same rules across the board. MLB needs to follow suite and I think that for the health and betterment of the game, the NL needs to adopt the DH. Like, yesterday.
@dshires the National League and American League, key word being league, are different leagues, both are major league. It’s not like football or basketball which have different conferences. If baseball would eliminate interleague play the dh, no dh would take care of itself due to the two leagues only facing each other in the World Series.
Of course your argument is the epitome of arrogance. Who are you to say “how a lineup should look” anyway? Your argument could easily be switched to say the AL should eliminate the DH and play baseball the way it has been played since the beginning of the sport.
saltlake: Then the NL would continue to hold the advantage since AL pitchers don’t bat all season. I favor the same rules for both leagues, all season long. DH or not, I can take it or leave it. Growing up a Tigers fan, Mickey Lolich and Jack Morris were both good hitters. Too bad Jack only saw the rare PH opportunity.
I can agree to the 15 day DL and 26 man roster, but keeping the 40 man roster in September.
Killing the position player pitching just seems vengeful, they only pitch in blowouts with the team 100% unlikely to make a comeback.
The waiver trades are actually a really cool part of a teams playoff push, really dont want that to go.
3 batter minimum just reeks of “MuH PAcE oF PlAy” while getting rid of LOOGY jobs..
In short, yes to 26 man roster. Yes to 15 day DL. Nay to everything else.
It’s not getting rid of LOOGY jobs. It is “de-specializing” that position on the roster. If a pitcher can’t do anymore than just pitch to one guy, then maybe you should reevaluate whether he belongs in the big leagues at all.
How do you feel about the DH then? If a player can’t field a ground ball to save their life, maybe they should re-evaluate whether he belongs in the big leagues at all.
I agree 100% with your sarcastic reponse. We don’t need to change rules that have been around for 100+ years in order to save Jose Martinez’s job.
And thus getting rid of the Lefty One Out GuY.
Specialists have always been part of the game in some form or another. There are guys who almost only DH, guys who are mainly pinch-hitters, guys who are mainly utility fielders, most backup catchers, ground ball specialist relievers, etc. They belong in the game just as much as any other player. We shouldn’t be making rules that specifically target some of them.
What’s a DL? 😉
Big leaguers hate 40 man rosters. Imagine working in a space built for 25 people and adding 15 more people to it. Imagine traveling on a plane and suddenly there’s an extra 10-15 people on it.
If you are limiting pitchers and making the DH permanent, there is no need for a 26 man roster. If the limit is 13, then you have 12 hitters, 2-9, and a backup C, 1B/3B, 2B/SS, and OF, one of which is your DH.
Also, in the American League, the DH is not mandatory, it’s just that teams prefer a real hitter to a bad hitting pitcher.
That was the allure of Ohtani, he could be in RF, switch with a pitcher, get a few batters, and then go back to RF, without coming out of the game (because he is still fielding).
Lower the mound or move it back.
Why? I would like to know your opinion.
Moving it back gives hitters more chance to make contact so more of an incentive to swing.
As far as the way the players play, no one would even notice. No mechanical changes needed.
Great idea.
I’m guessing that your comment reeks of sarcasm……at least I think it does…..LOL (I hope it does)
Moving the mound back? By how much? If the purpose of that is to “protect the pitcher from injury”….you need to move it back “a lot”. That’s ridiculous. How far is “enough” to accomplish that.
Pitchers have been training to throw the ball 60’6″ for as long as I know. Changing that…..means changing everything that they do….everything they’ve learned. Release point is different, Breaking balls have to be completely adjusted.
If we’re talking “a few inches”…..It’s really not a solution.
If we’re talking 12 inches……It’s a Monumental Change for Pitchers.
12 inches. It’s only 10 inches above the baseline now. And, it has been changed before. It was lowered to the current 10 inches from 15 inches for the 1969 season.
It was lowered in 1969, because offense in 1968 had reached a ridiculous low point. We have by no means reached that point today. A lack of balls in play can’t be solved by merely raising the offensive level of the game as a whole. You’d think we were back in the steroid era with many more balls would be flying out of the park with that kind of change.
No on moving the mound back.
Seems like a way for teams to limit player service time with the 28 man roster. The teams are a business so they’re going to try to implement rules/changes to fully benefit them financially.
September call ups when rosters expand won’t effect service time at all.
How does expanding roster size allow teams to limit service time?
It actually accelerates service time for 1-3 new players on each team that otherwise wouldn’t accrue anything by my count.
What am I missing here? A couple weeks in September would require a team to call someone up every year for a good half decade or more before having any meaningful impact on Super 2 or other service time considerations
Well as it stands now, there are 15 players that get called up in September. If it goes to 28 expanded roster then that’s only 3 players that get called up to the show.
Let’s just say out of those 3 players, Vlad Jr DOESN’T get called up because the FO says he “isn’t ready” or that they needed a pitcher instead. That’s one less month of service time for Vlad. But then they will make it up to him, fans, writers by allowing him to start opening day. The FO doesn’t have to hold him back on opening day because they already held him back the prior year when rosters expanded. Basically it’s to get the target off the teams back.
I think you’ll still see them hold back season beginning call ups just for the year of team control.
If I wait until 171 days are left in the season to bring him up, even with no Sept call-up time remaining, existing CBA gives me 7 yrs control instead of 6.
So I’d think teams retain same incentive, and same flak, in gaming the system.
Still needs a CBA fix
26/28 man roster is a good thing.
Pitch clock is a good thing.
3 batter min is a bad idea.
DH to NL will happen, everyone already knows the positives and negatives.
The idea I really want to see is moving the mound back to the exact center of the diamond. Cool idea that is finally gaining some traction.
It’s a horrible idea to move the mound back. You’re making pitchers change everything they’ve ever trained to do on the fly. It’s gonna cause more injuries, decrease starter’s innings pitched, and be horrible for the game.
They’ve changed the mound before (1969). And it didn’t ruin the game. It will be okay.
Didn’t that change have to do with the height of the mound?
the height, not the distance to home plate.
Owner’s touching not 1 single real issue with the game. Ignoring everything which is a problem, like putting on blinders. Offering up that single player slot to the union in order to try and push across a bunch of garbage speed up the game junk it doesn’t need and ignoring salary cap, salary floor problems that are what is wrong.
Way to go Manfred. You’ll go down as the worst commissioner yet and beating Selig which was pretty hard.
The players don’t want a cap! They’ve fought for several decades not to have a cap! Good lord why do you people think baseball needs a cap. Again thank god the long suffering Patriots and Warriors fans finally got to celebrate a championship in their life time. This narrative that caps make sure there is parity and spending equals winning is a stupid narrative
Who wants a cap? I’ve posted here for years to dump it, but it will never go away.. Bank on it due to small market owner’s insistence. best can hope for is salary floor to force those same owners to spend and raising the cap to a LARGE amount. After all, if the larger market owners are the one’s supporting them. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to spend that money
I think johnsilver is advocating for the removal of the current cap that is stifling spending from the larger budget teams.
A cap is the only way to stop teams from tanking. Make them spend a minimum amount while also placing a cap on max spent. You’ll get more competitive games, cheap owners will be forced to spend, and your big market teams can’t just control FA with their bottomless pockets.
A salary floor won’t prevent tanking. The NBA has one and they invented tanking. If a team is below the floor in the NBA they get a team with an unwanted contract to give them a draft pick with a bad contract.
The Rays have the lowest payroll and they’ll be in the playoff hunt. Should they replace some of their good cheap players by giving big contracts to free agents?
The Orioles are in the bottom five too. If they re-signed Adam Jones for $15 million they really wouldn’t be any more competitive than they were last year when their payroll was in the top half of the league.
Baseball is a zero sum game. No matter how much the teams spend some teams are going to be bad.
Another stupid narrative is that a floor will prevent tanking. Wrong again. NBA and the NHL have teams who tank every year.
Those same teams are taking large market money and extra draft picks each year in the form of compensatory picks for being small market, They can help alleviate the FA call to sign some of their own and sign some of the stragglers left over the last 2y left hanging and by that, I don’t mean the typical Boras clients left hanging around left by his bravado.
Force a floor, if there is going to be any sharing of monies to be delved out, same with compensatory picks and a meaningful one at that, like around 100m. That will get them signing some type of marquee player if on a short term basis only.
Next move these same clubs will make a move on is large market TV money, which they also have no interest in. Can you see this happening in the real business world? it would NEVER happen, sharing capital with business rivals. It’s beyond wild sharing money to help rivals in order to survive so they don’t either move, or fold.
.
No. Go to a EPL model where the renenve created by all the teams combined.
Whoever wins gets the biggest piece of the pie. Trickles down the further down the standings.
Teams won’t tank.
Now your going to say well the Yankees and dodgers will win every year? And that’s stupid because they haven’t won once in the last 10 years despite spending the most. Spending doesn’t equal winning, no cap needed no floor.
Spending caps and floors are not rule changes that can be dealt with during the term of the CBA. Those issues will have to wait until the renegotiation of the current contract.
This! Rule changes, roster changes, etc. are fair game, but changes to payroll aren’t going to be touched until the next CBA.
position-player pitching???? why limit..
a. makes the game more interesting
b. very rare cases you have a 14 inning game or so a game a day after a long one where a team is forced to use position players to pitch. would only make sense if rosters did expand to 26.
c. suggestion: add X to the ban list on all mlb forums.
d. suggestion: if suggestion c fails, I propose BAN you
You’re a douchbag…
I love how you say “if suggestion c fails” meaning you expect it to pass or fail. at least you are bright enough to understand your #mlbtrtwitter account has no followers asides of all the accounts you made.
Xabial wants to ban the fastball, slider, curve, knuckleball from professional baseball.
Did you forget about this?
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By Tim Dierkes | January 31, 2012 at 8:08pm CDT
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Attacks or insults toward other commenters, the post author, journalists, teams, players, or agents.
Otherwise harassing other commenters in any way.
Sure haven’t. But it is difficult to draw lines and we can’t see everything.
We delete comments and ban commenters as appropriate. If you see something problematic, use the flag function.
As for the constant Xabial sideshow, it’s nearly too absurd for words. I’ve suggested this before but am going to apply a more stringent standard now: those participating in comment board community melodramas unrelated to actual baseball discussion — whether through the comment board itself, by abusing the flagging function, or otherwise — are just going to be banned. This applies to Xabial as well.
Exactly – can we just talk baseball on a topic-by-topic basis?
Posters who “monitor” what other posters say in other topics and bring up it up off-topic are just doing commenting wrong. Baseball is ever-changing and therefore opinions will change, and if you’re playing “gotcha” journalism on what is essentially an anonymous platform, well you need a better hobby.
If a poster is being outwardly ridiculous you can easily ignore them, like, it takes literally nothing of you to not reply.
Worst Commissioner ever!
still to date … Bowie Kuhn was the worst.
Agreed. I don’t like one single rule change that he’s made. Now 3 batter rule. Just simply put. It’s ridiculous!
Commissioner works for the owners, and obviously the owners want some of these changes.
He honestly might be the best given how low the bar for this actually is…
I really hate the 3 batter minimum thing. for one it entirely eliminates a position — a profession — for a lot of so called LOOGYs and second teams could be totally screwed if they bring in a reliever having an off day and he just implodes with no control over taking him out before he’s done 3 batters worth of damage. it could be anything – like bring in a typically dominant reliever with the bases loaded but for whatever reason he can’t throw strikes that day and walks in 3-runs. completely changing the outcome of the game. I just really don’t like it one bit.
If you can’t face multiple batters and get out both lefties and righties, you don’t deserve to be a major leaguer.
If you can’t play half of the game (fielding), you don’t deserve to be a major leaguer.
If you can’t hit a baseball you don’t belong throwing one.
If you can’t play in the field you don’t deserve to be in the line up
hope he steps on a black mamba!
Raising batter minimum to 2 would be enough. 3 is just overkill.
A 3 hitter minimum is ridiculous. By that measure, there will have to be some form of mandatory stand-down or DL stint for any pitcher removed before this. Which means you’re going to get Managers who have to gamble on whether their guy is genuinely hurt or not. What if a pitcher feels a tweak in his shoulder? If you take him out, you risk losing him to the DL/for X amount of games over nothing. If you leave him in, you risk further injury.
All it takes is a Chapman, Jansen or other high profile reliever to get burned by this – potentially seriously – and it blows up in the MLBs face.
Exactly, I feel that even though the rule is of course going to exclude injuries, it’s going to create a lot of gray areas.
Say a guy throws four straight balls, doesn’t want to blame it on injury, but manager leaves him out there cuz he can’t change pitchers, and the guy does serious damage to his arm.
Or conversely, let’s say that guy isn’t actually hurt, but manager pulls him and comes up with some nebulous injury. Does he have to go to the DL? For a 15 day stint now?
I’m pretty sure injury is an exception, use common sense here
And how is that going to be governed? Managers will game the system – you can’t build something reliant on good faith like that.
They’ll simply take a guy out because of a “tweak”, and he’ll be fine tomorrow.
It’s simple. Any pitcher removed for an injury has to be placed on the 15 game DL with no exceptions.
A pitcher is allowed to DH
A manager is allowed to double switch
But a position player is not allowed to pitch???
A pitcher or other position players can not be moved to DH. A DH can only be replaced by a player that has not entered the game. The DH can be moved to a fielding position and the pitcher bats in the spot of the of the player the DH replaces and the team plays under NL rules.
The MLBPA feels that a salary cap and revenue sharing would limit players choices. With the salary floor, teams get stuck with a lot of albatross contracts. We know the sky is falling and you blame one side.
They need to contain shifting to the infield dirt. Having the 2nd baseman or SS playing 40 feet in front of the RFer is pathetic beer league garbage.
Learn to hit the other way.
Barry Bonds always hit into a shift.
That’s irrelevant in his scenario. I agree hitters should adjust but a 2nd baseman is called an INFIELDER for a reason.
@Cam
Agreed.
Moving the mound back is such a drastic change. I think the majority of pitchers will take years to adjust since they are such creatures of habit. I’m surprised that this is proposed over lower the mound or how willing the Atlantic League is willing to embrace this change.
If they change the mound distance, they should start in the minors so the next generation of pitchers will be ready, not our current guys!
You mean Babe Ruth and high schoolleagues across the country…and the cost to school and park districts to adjust their mounds, changing how coaching is done at every level, the changes are not just to MLB and MiLB, it’s at every single level on the way up. Ridiculous. Want more offense? Teach guys to hit rather than to just HR or K. Pitching ain’t the problem.
Agree.
I think back is a terrible idea.
I do believe dropping the height of the mound isn’t a bad idea. Not only would it reduce velocity somewhat it would also save a lot of arms.
People talk about robot umps, but I think the real move should be robot players.
We only have 1 more year to make Super Baseball 2020 a reality people.
NES Base Wars. It’s happpppppening!
Balls and strikes should be a robot. Everything should be reviewable. The game should be faster with more runs.
I don’t get why MLB would want to limit position player pitching. Look at all the hype Ohtani generated as a two way player. I think it’d be great for the game to encourage more two-way players.
I guess this is aimed more at guys coming in for mop up duty in 10-run games. But first of all, how do you make the distinction between that player and Ohtani (or someone like Matt Davidson, or maybe Brendan McKay in a few years), someone who can legitimately get outs. And also the mop up guys are coming in blowout games anyway, games that already are going to have low viewership or ratings. So who cares if a position player pitches. It makes sense for teams to keep their real pitchers healthy, so that the next day they can put their best product on the field, which theoretically increases viewership for the next day.
My gut reactions:
single trade deadline of July 31st— makes sense, current system is kind of ridiculous, and an earlier hard deadline might promote a little more competitiveness
three-batter minimum per pitcher (by 2020)— hate it. First of all, eliminates strategy, but also creates gray area for pitchers being pulled or not pulled for injuries
26-man roster (by 2020) and 28-man September roster— seems reasonable. As much as 25 feels right as a round number, 26 would be fine, and a 40 man roster in September is just ridiculous. This seems like a good compromise.
15-day injured list and 15-day minimum optional assignment— basically back to how things were.
further limitations on mound visits, position-player pitching, and time between innings— mound visits could probably be further reduced with communication technologies kind of like QBs in football.
Time between innings is the most obvious way to cut down game times, just a matter of not cutting ad revenues too.
And see my comment above about position player pitching.
Overall, I could leave with these changes.
Are you suggesting that they “Limit Revenue Generating Commercials and Sponsor Advertisements”…..????……………THAT’s not happening…..LOL…..Those people pay $$$Billions to Baseball…..and they OWN that time…..(satire/sarcasm abound here)
I assume that the position player not pitching, is from some sort of daily designation. If the designation was for longer periods, it could pose a problem for the Halos and Ohtani. Or does Ohtani take up 2 positions on the 25/26 man roster?
I think Im OK with lowering the mound again, since MLB just seems to find taller human beings to sign as pitchers, but the distance change seems just plain crazy. Even just a foot over 60’6” will be a crazy advantage for hitters.
Maybe we can save time by shortening the distance from the pitchers rubber to the front of home plate to 46’, like little league! I think this could also limit the shoulder and elbow problems for pitchers. No further need for breaking balls, as physics limits the break possible in that distance. This way we can eliminate pitchers entirely. Each position player pitches one inning, on a rotating basis. 14 man roster!
You forgot the aluminum bats and short center.
None of this BS on inter league games and whether the DH is used or not at the home ball parks. Universal DH all the way. NL doesn’t want it? Fine. AL will use it everywhere, including NL park where NL team will use pitchers. See if they’ll get their panties in a wad!!!
Harper to Dodgers. Announcement will be today.
“NEW: Following the surprising Sunday night meeting between the #Dodgers and Bryce Harper, another owner has reached out to Boras in the hopes of attaining his own meeting, sources tell me. #Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner spoke to Boras earlier today, and made the request.”
mobile.twitter.com/MLBINSIDER_/status/110027166550…
This twitter source has 2K followers, 2K more than you.
xabial………….
That Tweet was 2 days ago…..Hours ago the oft-debunked MLB Insider account tweeted…………..
Free-agent Bryce Harper and the Los Angeles #Dodgers have reached an agreement on a record breaking contract, according to league sources. Deal includes an opt-out. Harper will now play on the Hollywood stage he’s always dreamed of. Announcement expected tomorrow.
Personally I hope it’s true. IMHO the Phillies blew it with Machado and Harper is too inconsistent.
If I am not mistaken this is the same guy who said Harper was ready to sign twice with the Phillies but his wife talked him out of at. He, or another iffy source, also speculated a fight between Harper and Boras.
I don’t see the players agreeing to a 28-man roster in November when the regular roster is 26. Allow the teams to call up the same number of players as they do, but set a limit of 30 per game & limit it to 2 additional pitchers.
The death of baseball. Thank Manfred. D-bag.
I like how the NFL changed some of their commercial breaks doing a split screen. That left one quick commercial during the break while the squads went on and off the field. I am sure there are other ways to get sponsorships than just playing tired commercials over and over and over.
The minimum 3 batter reliever rule is dumb. Destroys match-ups (strategy) in the game.
No mention of the DH? I could go for that 100%. I don’t need to see Severino with a bat at the plate in June, or ever at all.
Raise the mount to 1950’s levels and do something about the long commercial breaks and you will speed up the game exponentially.
Montgomery Burns: “then you will have your two-hour baseball matches. muHAHAHA”
Let’s see if I understand here…
Last figures I saw had the average mlb game at 3:05… compare that to the nfl at 3:12 – doesn’t hurt them?
How much time do these people think this stuff will save? Someone who won’t watch a 3:05 game isn’t going to be interested in even a 2:45 game either. Fact is, those people aren’t interested in games like that.
Also, do these people attention games outside their private luxury boxes? The average person attending the game uses those inning breaks to hit the restroom and concession stands. I’ll navigate those long lines between innonhs, but be dammed if I’ll skip half an inning 2 or 3 times a game to buy their overpriced crap – time for flasks to make a return to society and hurt the owner’s on fringe revenues if they cut that time.
(Also, Kids live the team run activities between innings – in Atlanta they run camera oriented things, staged mascot races, etc)
Also, while shaving 2 or 3 seconds a pitch in some games or appearances, they want to move the mound back or lower it.
Know what adds the most time to a game? MORE AT-BATS! Additional plate appearances from more offense is going to add more time to a game than anything else. And you know what else? That part of the game ain’t broke. Offer se is alive and well, I didn’t see an overwhelming amount of 1-0 14 inning games last season because nobody could score…
It’s not just about time, it’s about pacing. Baseball is a game of starts and stops. Having an endless parade of relievers destroys the momentum at what should be the most exciting parts of the game
Not sure I’ve witnessed a game with an endless parade of relievers with one exception – “bullpenning” and the “opener”…
Easier ways to fix those than these changes here. The “pace of play” arguement was put forward based on one justification my league brass – reducing game length, based on new fan disinterest.
We already have a limit on reliever usage, it’s called roster size. I can see how they are concerned if they give in and expand rosters that more bullpen arms could be used, but I think this is an overreaction.
Apparently you missed Kapler needing to use a position player in like the second game last year because he used the whole pen.
For conversation sake, here’s the recap of that series:
mlb.com/news/kapler-reacts-to-bullpen-error-philli…
Really that instance came from some rookie mismanagement over several days, especially a string of lifting starters too early in being overly aggressive.
NOT because a manager trotted the entire bullpen out in one afternoon where a 3 at bat minimum would’ve changed anything.
So I’ll disagree with you here that the game/series in question represents the “problem” they’re trying to fix
In addition to what everyone else mentioned, there’s also the fact that there’s 162 regular season baseball games but only 16 football games. The standards are higher when you are expecting people to watch that many games per year.
@Reflect. Exactly. Either making the game more exciting to watch (more balls in play and action on the base paths) or shorter can only help.
Have you watched an NFL broadcast? It is a terrible product. An endless parade of commercials. A 60minute game with 2hrs and 15mins of commercials.
Baseball 3 hours of nothing with 2 minutes of action
Why not have a single trade deadline, but push it back to August 15. More teams will know whether they are contending or not.
Last time it was proposed it was mentioned alongside the NL DH, so I didn’t pay much attention to it, but the 3 batter minimum is also a terrible idea.
Do people understand that baseball is not really a sport?
That baseball is really a strategy game involving short bursts of athleticism?
That if you remove the strategy from baseball you are left with a game of “see white thing, hit white thing” that is slower and with less action than badminton?
Boo to anything that removes strategy from baseball.
What the hell is the point of that position player-pitcher restriction? It seems like they’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.
Didn’t they already have a 15 day DL
It got changed to 10 day and many teams have exploit it to shuttle bullpen pitchers between the big league, DL, and minor league.
I’m a traditionalist who hates the idea of the NL adopting the DH and would honestly probably get rid of instant replay, let alone robot umps.
BUT I am all in favor of the reliever minimum appearance, particularly *because* I’m a traditionalist.. Sometimes you have to tweak the rules to keep things the way they were supposed to be. Anyone who’s studied older baseball knows that the innings were not intended to be divided between two to three pitchers. Much like intentional fouling in basketball, it destroys the pace of the game at the time when the game is supposed to be most exciting. To people who say it eliminates strategy, well of course it doesn’t. If you know that the reliever you bring in must pitch to a 3 batter minimum, you must manage carefully around that fact. That’s strategy. And much more pleasant than having to mute my TV again because the manager wants to bring in the lefty and then, one out later, another righty.
Moving the mound back is a terrible and costly idea. First off, let’s say they move the mound back one foot. Now every single pitcher has to re-learn how to throw just about every pitch because their curveball curves a foot more away or now their changeup bounces in front of the plate. Pitchers will need to learn if in order to throw their same pitches they need to throw harder, take something off, add spin, reduce spin, change release points, change axis, etc. It’s not so easy when they trained their entire life to throw from 60′ 6″.
Moving the mound will also be costly for millions of youth, high school, and college baseball fields (except those that use portable mounds). If they want to mess with the mound, raising or lowering it would be the better option.
They will not be happy until they totally ruin the game of baseball. All because of Commissioner Rob Manfred ego and trying to make a name for himself.
It’s not the pitchers that take forever. It’s the hitters. But MLB NEEDS TO SHORTEN THE SEASON!! 162 games is just ridiculous.
Those who criticize Bud Selig’s reign would be reminded that when Bud took over, “retraction” was in the air, franchises were floundering, and the National Pastime was about to become the National Graveyard.
Under Selig, you had labor peace for 15 years, EVERY franchise tripled in value, and revenues grew faster than in any other sport.
Selig will be viewed, historically, the greatest sports commissioner of all time, save possibly Rozelle. And that’s only possibly.
If they change to a 3 batter minimum than I’ll stop watching. Manfred isn’t happy unless he’s toying with every detail of the game.
Why doesn’t the commish just tell the umps to get a smaller strike zone if the pitcher is stalling?
Manfred doesn’t like baseball
Selig hated it more by creating too many divisions and unbalancing the schedule so now every team doesn’t even play the same number of H/A games against all the other teams in the league.
How about doing something about all the baseball teams that are literally losing on purpose (tanking) and not even playing this game competitively rather than implementing a bunch of silly pace of play rules?
I agree. Time to do what the NBA does and have a draft lottery. Losing more gets you more tickets in the lottery but in no way guarantees the #1 pick.
The NBA invented tanking and does it far better than baseball teams do. The Athletics and Rays were 30th and 28th in payroll last year and won 90 games. No team trying to lose in the NBA wins.
The NBA it takes fewer players to make a huge impact on the game. A very talented Lebron made the Cavs instantly much better. Also, the NBA also has a payroll floor. And you made my point for me. No team trying to lose in the NBA wins.
In MLB, teams don’t “tank” for a better draft pick. Because drafted players are so far away they really aren’t part of any team’s strategy to win any time soon. Because they need so much development, there’s not a great advantage to drafting higher. So far, the highest WAR first rounders in the 2014 were drafted 7, 25, 8, and 13. In the 2013 draft the only first rounders over 10 WAR were drafted 2 and 32.
Teams aren’t trying to lose. What they’re doing is trading short-term assets, players 1-2 years from free agency, who won’t be with them when they’re ready to win. That often results in them losing.
Salary floor can be pointless.
Last year the MLB PA filed grievance against TB, OAK, PIT & MIA over spending too little.
TB won 90, most years snagging a WC and historically better than than some division winners, doing it in the AL East where TWO teams broke 100wins…
OAK had mlb 3rd best record at 97 wins…
PIT had a winning season (82-79) in a competitive division…
Leaving the marlins that… well, nothing we can say about MIA. The abbreviation about sums up the team, MIA, which since their inception were boom or bust.
Still, no need to spend for spending sake.
As an aside, JHs comments about teams willing to spend tend to do better, well… the Sox spent big, and won big. BUT, if they didn’t spend as big with all that dead money floating around (hanram, panda, rusney, etc) they wouldn’t NEED to spend as big. You imagine they were judicious and smart with awarding contracts, they could’ve been under the lux tax last year and STILL fielded a mlb-winningest ball club due to avoiding those albatross deals (and not having overpaid the likes of porcello)
At this time last year the Royals were being praised for rebuilding “the right way.” They’d signed Duda, Moustakas, Jay, and Nolasco. They weren’t trying to lose. They were going to be competitive!
The Orioles signed Rasmus, Tillman, Alvarez, and then added Alex Cobb at the last minute. They didn’t look like a playoff contender but surely they’d win more games than the pathetic Tampa Bay Rays. The Rays traded Corey Dickerson in February 2018 just to save money!
Coast1, no, they tank to get better draft picks. The fact that teams are trading away players like Staton in Miami with a long term contract is PROOF you have no clue what you are talking about. They wanted PROSPECTS, and a better draft position by losing more. Astro’s did it, Cubs did it, Braves did it, Tigers doing it.
You criticize me by giving the flimsiest of support that doesn’t even support your point. Trading veterans for prospects doesn’t ensure losing. Losing can happen as a result but if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. The Yankees traded veterans for prospects in 2016 and it didn’t ensure losing. They won more after they did it. The Rays traded veterans and they didn’t lose either. If the goal is to get a better draft position teams have failed.
The point of trading veterans for prospects is to value from players who won’t be around when you are ready to win for players who will. It isn’t to obtain better draft position because you can’t count on losing. And getting better draft position doesn’t necessarily produce much.
The Phillies committed to their rebuild in 2015 and they’ve produced one player, Scott Kingery, from the last 4 drafts. In fact, few of the players they’ve drafted are on their top 30 prospects. The Phillies may win the division this year but it won’t be due to any of the draft picks they made since they started tanking.
TB, OAK, PIT should have all extended their young star players, don’t frame it strictly as a free agency thing. Those teams are insultingly cheap and their owners should be forced to sell their teams to ones who want to do everything they can to win. Oakland lost the WC because they had no ace pitcher, and even now are not in on Keuchel -which is SO insulting to the fanbase, especially since they have no guaranteed long term money anywhere. Either give Chapman $100M now or get Kimbrel or Keuchel or both.
Your post are painful to read. No point even pointing out what’s wrong. Loss cause, good thing it’s wrong and opinion is irrelevant
I think they’ll deal with this, either through a salary “floor” or forfeiture of draft choices. “Tanking” will go the way of the Hula Hoop.
July 31 deadline? A complete nothing burger. So the Tigers don’t “trade” Verlander, they just waive him. Houston’s the only team that claims him, and they work out a pre-arranged deal that gets announced in the winter. Since it likely doesn’t involve MLB players, it gets ignored.
If they implement the 15 day IL and Option 15 day requirement, it’s going to hurt teams like the Dodgers and Rays who use the “shuttle” effectively. There goes your “opener”.
NBA has a salary floor and they have more tanking than anyone. Didn’t stop them. All it did was make them spend good money that could be saved on bad players now.
I don’t really have a problem with the pitch clock, but I remember back on Jul 22, 2017 Greg Maddux pitched a complete game using only 76 pitches and lasted 2 hours and 7 minutes. Of those, only 13 were balls. He had six strikeouts. Not only did Maddux not walk anyone, he didn’t get into a single three-ball count all day. He only got two balls against a hitter twice — once in the second inning against Sammy Sosa and in the seventh against Mark Grace.
So get this: Maddux threw seven pitches in the first inning and then seven in the fifth, sixth and seventh innings. He really labored in the fourth inning — that was when he surrendered the one run — and threw 12 pitches. By contrast, Jake Arrieta, who wasn’t too bad for the Cubs, threw 97 pitches through six innings. He gave up five hits and two runs. Back in 1997, Maddux also gave up five hits.
Throwing more strikes would speed the game up the most, but you can’t make a rule that will cause pitchers to throw more strikes.
Maddux also had an umpire behind the plate willing to stretch the plate. That said, I would not mind that happening today. Media and some fans would have a fit though.
I would hope they could implement a rule allowing any double headers or rescheduled games late in year to have expanded rosters as well. Cubs were hosed last September because of the no days off and additional games added. Maybe mlb can develope points system. 1 for win .5 for tie and 0 for loss. No fan wants 18 inning games whether on couch or at park, and neither do players
Save extra innings for playoffs
That 18 inning playoff game was the best game of the season.
The only person that does not want 19 inning games is you. Stupidest comment I have seen today, and that is saying something.
Well there are a bunch of people saying a cap and floor prevent tanking. Meanwhile, the league that invented tanking has both of those. Right now through ~62 games the worst teams have 12, 13, 14, and 16 wins and that’s not even bad comparatively speaking. 2012 bobcats we’re 7-59, 2016 sixers 10-72
The Cubs were not hosed last September. The rosters expand to 40 in September. If the Cubs did not have enough pitchers, that is their own fault.
Leave the mound where it is. How is that part slipped in at the end? Relievers throw three pitches on the field instead of 8, and you save 2-3 minutes per pitching change. Since there are 4-5 mid-inning pitching changes, 10-15 minutes are cut from the game. The three batter minimum changes the strategy too much for me. I am all for a robot calling balls and strikes. No more stepping out and arguing between ump and player. Probably take another 3-4 minutes off the game. Pitch clock with no one on base would take another few minutes off. Boom, 15-20 minutes gone. You’re welcome!
Ban the shift. If Ted Williams chad trouble adjusting to bit with pitchers throwing in the mid 80s, most players today have no chance.
Players are adjusting just fine, by changing the swing angle to generate more fly balls. The game is arguably more interesting for it. Who wants to watch sluggers pull cheap singles through the infield all day?
Banning the shift would punish the players who adjusted and reward the ones to failed to. It’s a ridiculous notion, and teams that built their rosters to beat the shift would never agree to it.
Only thing that could possibly be banned is moving the third baseman out into right field against lefties, since that’s meant to stop fly balls. But even then, a team like the Yankees (who have a righty heavy lineup in part for this reason) would rightfully be upset. So there would need to be something like a 3-4 year notice, to allow them to adjust first.
It’s not fine. The true outcomes makes the game more boring. And the argument you can build your roster to support the shift is insane. You take away the importance of a SS and Second baseman? That’s good to you?
When the Brewers come out and say the Shift is the reason they can play Moustakas as second base, you know the it’s crazy.
So the game is boring because players and managers adjust to how a hitter hits most of the time? Go watch another sport then. Under your rules, how far over can a shortstop go? What if he goes one step over, gonna call out of bounds? Do we have to have lines like in football? STUPID idea.
Those are all good changes. The extra roster spot should be enough incentive to get the PA to agree to most of them.
Maybe not the loss of September callups and increasing the DL time, because those take money out of players’ pockets. The September callups are a chance for a bunch of minor leaguers to get paid major league salary for a month, and more frequent use of the DL does the same thing (and, somewhat counter-intuitively, making the minimum DL time longer will result in less overall DL time: teams are more likely to just play with a man down when there’s a minor injury).
Three-Batter rule is beyond dumb.
Totally. Why try to get rid of some of the pitching changes. Those are the best part of the game.
What could be more exciting than a great hitter being announce, everyone getting ready to watch him launch one, and then BAM: we instead get to watch the manager stroll out the dugout, and then sit through a commercial break.
We get another pitcher who may strike out said great hitter.
Most of these are solutions in search of a problem. If Rob really wants to confront what’s killing baseball, it’s that a third of the league won’t be competing in 2019.
Yeah like the A’s last year and the Rays.
Robot Umps would be the downfall of the sport as we know it. Horrible, horrible idea. Real Umps may make mistakes from time to time but that’s part of the game, and always should be.
It’s not from time to time. They’re about 50/50 on anything close, and they even miss a significant chunk of what’s not particularly close.
You wouldn’t even notice a robo ump behind home plate. Put a person back there to relay the calls. Let him then man home plate like all the other umps.
“from time to time”
Angel Hernandez: “Hold my beer…”
What, if anything, do human umps really add anymore?
Subjective strike zones, needless delays for pointless arguments, and just outright terrible decision making are all things I can do without.
If I trusted them to care about getting it right anymore I may feel differently… But as a group it’s clear that’s not their priority anymore. So bring on the cameras.
ban the shift
So now you want to regulate where on the field the players can be? That is just plain stupid, no offense intended.
Stupid? They do it in EVERY other sport. An infielder playing on the outfield grass is stupid. Three men on the right side of the infield is stupid.
Ted Williams had a difficult time adjusting to the shift when people threw in the 80s. What chance do today’s players have with pitchers throwing in the mid 90s?
You want batters to work on two different swings? Batters can’t shorten up today because if they don’t hit bullets, they are going to be out.
I like ground ball hits. Which in today’s game is a rare occurrence.
They don’t use gloves in other sports, does this mean MLB should not use them? They do use pads in football, should MLB use them? Just because other sports do or don’t do something is not a valid reason for MLB to do it.
Ban hitters who can only hit the ball to one part of the the field!
The 3 batter minimum per Pitcher is a ridiculous Rule that need to trashed ASAP … his foes this even get tabled for discussion ???
MLB is 150 yrs in and this is will change the basic concept of the game and how it’s been played since the beginning.
This is just crazy !
You want the game to pick up in pace and for more balls into play? Instead of pitch clocks and three batter minimums and banning creative defensive alignments, let’s change the ball to reduce the spin and deaden it.
Reduce the spin by changing the composition of the ball by moving some of the weight from the core out closer to the edges. Reducing spin will reduce pitch movement, reduce swing and miss, and increase contact with more balls in play and fewer foul balls. (Sorry, fans who aren’t already behind expanded netting.) This will lead to fewer strikeouts, which has become the bane of the game for more than a decade now.
Of course, with the current composition of the ball, the strength and technique of hitters, and speed of pitches, great home run hitters might end up hitting 100 jacks a year and even utility infielders might hit 30. We definitely don’t want that. So we deaden the ball by just 2% or 3%, which can reduce home runs by 20%, by turning a ball coming off the bat at, for example, 100 MPH to one coming off at 98 or 97 MPH. Fewer home runs means banjo hitting middle infielders who have no business hitting 10 or 15 bombs a year can’t take pitchers deep anymore. That means that, instead of having to nibble corners and pitch carefully to every single batter in the order because every single batter can take you out, pitchers can just serve up the ball on a platter to at least half the order: “here you go, hit it and get yourself out.” That’s exactly how pitchers used to get 20 and 30 complete games a year: they could go directly after half the hitters they faced, so pitchers didn’t have to work nearly as hard at pitching as they do today.
Fewer home runs won’t mean fewer runs, though. More balls in play will mean more base hits, and run scoring will get made up that way. More contact and more going directly after hitters will also mean fewer pitches and perhaps fewer walks.
Bottom line: more balls in play will mean more action, with fewer strikeouts, fewer walks, fewer foul balls, fewer pitches per batter, less time in between pitches, and at that point, people won’t even notice or care about pace of play, because the problem will be solved. Because ultimately, slow pace of play isn’t a number. It’s a perception.
And in turn, longer games, because more hits mean more at bats, meaning more pitches thrown, taking…. more time.
So, right back to where we started which is a set of claims that the games are too long. Pace of play initiatives always reference game length, and where to shorten time-of-contest. Not how to pack more content in an equal or longer timeframe.
The 28 man roster with 14 pitchers directly conflicts with the pitch clock and 3 batter minimum concepts attempting to speed pace of play. The 25 man roster is fine. Just cap the number of pitchers at 12. It accomplishes the desired effect of fewer pitching changes and faster game play. It should come along with universal DH.
Artificially forcing up the number of active position players on a roster will just reduce salaries of the best players / average salaries as front offices replace bonafide starters / stars each game for at bats with scrubs good at hitting LH sinkerball pitchers, etc. Essentially, it will push current pitcher replacement strategy on position players.
I agree the 3 batter rule is overkill. Twelve pitchers is fine. Increase the Roster to 26, If someone goes on the DL, they miss 15 games. If someone goes to the minor leagues, they stay there 15 days. If someone is called up they stay on the roster for 7 days.
Right now they have 30 man rosters where the bench is their AAA team.
these are all good ideas and improve the game without the idiotic pitch clock. the real problem is with the umpires Union failing to do their job and enforce the rules already in place.
“”””” There are indications, per Passan, that this latest effort represents a compromise vision that could lead to an eventual deal.”””””
What makes Passan think that these vanilla offers will lead to any deal with the MLBPA? I see nothing here that addresses the financial and player movement issues that have the players riled up.
Payroll issues won’t/can’t be adjusted before the new CBA
I can buy that explanation, but still do not understand how any of this moves the players toward a “deal”.
stupid is as stupid does. ,am I reading Moving back the Mound??? and I already know the clock thing will do nothing but make the game Longer as well as Moving back the Mound. ,If Manfred the Idiot who has never played the game wants a faster game . . Raise the mound and let the Umpires Call the Black section of the plate a strike and you can also add seam to the ball giving the Pitchers a extra chance at getting outs faster, making the game faster by slowing it down is Counter productive!!! as is Banning the shift!!!
28 man roster in September games is the best proposal. Im just guessing here but I bet the average game length in a given season is raised considerably because of how long September games are.
If a team wants to call up their entire 40 man roster on septmebre 1st, that’s fine, but only let them be able to use 28 players at any given game
Why is this a good proposal? The 40 man roster is where so many of the prospects get their first taste of the majors. By cutting the September rosters to 28, so many prospects, especially fringe prospects, from getting as much MLB time to prove themselves. Since this would also have the affect of limiting MLB clock time, the players union might block that idea.
I’m curious – not arguing for or against here – does anyone know from their particular team of a fringe prospect (one who otherwise was unheralded and headed for a career as minors depth) who got their chance to audition via call up and struck such an impression it was the springboard for a productive mlb career?
Lots of guys make an impression during their call ups and it puts them on the fast track to earning a potential roster spot out of Spring Training. That said, whether or not it directly leads to a productive MLB career is an awfully tall bar to set.
Guys who get September call ups are usually already high on their respective team’s prospect list. The September call up is often used to gauge whether or not the player is ready to play at the MLB level for the following year. It makes significant impacts on where teams focus their efforts to fill out a roster.
Agree with all you said about a preview audition outside of ST – instead gauging how the do against up to speed competition…
The OP argued for fringe prospects losing out though which got me curious. It’s a nice arguement, but not sure it really does anything other than. What fall league or st are also used for.
I can’t wait to see the results of a practical test of roboumps. I also cannot wait to hear the weird lamenting of those who fight for the need to preserve the ‘art’ of pitch framing…
I could definitely see robo-umps being used as training tools for existing umpires. Letting them know where pitches were in Spring Training so the umpire can learn to be more consistent.
What players and fans want more than anything else is a consistent strike zone rather than an absolutely perfect one.
I’d be fine keeping human umpires if there was some standard of accuracy they had to maintain to be allowed to umpire… But I don’t see the umps union ever agreeing to that.
So If my choice is robots or more Bill West/CB Bucknor types… Yeah, gimme the bots.
umps get fined right now for missing calls big time. Umps only miss 2 strikes a game. the #1 one framer catching stole only 3 strikes/game. Lets not change the entire game off of 3 pitches.
Umps only miss 2 strikes a game. The #1 framer in baseball stole 3 strikes a game on average. thats incredible how good the umps are. Lets not change the entire game for 3 pitches. DUMB.
Let’s not pretend all those missed calls are actually divided evenly between all the games. We’ve all seen the games completely derailed by the umpires particularly bad zone, and had to sit through 5 minutes of the arguing over those blown calls.
The game would not be changed by a robotic strike zone, since according to the rules it’s a fixed thing already.
Yes it is. We know exactly how many calls are missed. Let me tell you it’s net neutral. Quit jacking with the game for 2 dumb pitches.
That whizzing sound you just heard was the point going right over your head.
Your either a troll or just laughably ignorant, those are really the only two options after what you posted here…
All I can say is I’m happy the DH is finally coming to the NL. Yay!!
Why the single trade deadline?
That one is pretty weird, like how are contending teams going to cover Sept injuries?
If they are going to get rid of jobs by effectively ending all professional LOOGY careers, then MLB – must – add jobs via the DH in the NL.
DH’s also prevent mid-inning pitching changes, which is what causes longer games and why the NL is such a boring style of baseball – and yes, the very idea of “strategy” in baseball is totally bunk, as you cannot control what happens as the ball is never really “controlled” by anyone once it leaves the pitchers hand. Go watch basketball or football if you yearn for that crud.
Sad what Manfred is doing to the game. We need to hire Adam Silver. Roboumps would be the death of baseball. Eliminates one whole position at catcher, good luck finding anyone that just wants to squat back there just because. Might as well put up a net. Also takes away human interaction and element……..lets make it more boring folks, take away human interaction and arguing. SAD.
The umpires miss maybe +2 pitches a game. yes that’s it…..go check the framing stats for catchers to see how many each one steals/game….the leader stole +3. That’s incredible how good the umps are. Umps also get fined big time for missing calls. Lets change the entire game for 2 pitches….sad they are trying to do that. Just shows how out of touch Manfred is. If teams don’t like that you are not getting those calls, get a better catcher that can frame.
Um, why would it effect the catcher? His job is unchanged… I doubt many of them would demand a position change just because they don’t have someone to chat with during the dead times… It
The only human interaction it eliminates is the arguments, which aren’t entertaining in the first place.
Basically the only thing baseball loses is a time sink…
Why would it effect the catcher? Are you being sarcastic? That’s their job. That’s why they love to catch. They don’t get back there to throw it back to pitcher. Put Roboumps back there and you won’t find one that wants to catch. Put a net up with a bucket.
No, I’m being completely serious. I’m also thinking, which isn’t as scary as you seem to believe.
The catcher still calls the pitch, recieves the pitch, and fields his position no matter who is calling balls and strikes. There would even still be an umpire there to call safe/out… Nothing about being a catcher changes.
If you think the most important part of catching is lobbying the umpire to basically break the rules by making questionable calls, I have no idea what you’re smoking right now…
They do not want to shorten the game. They are trying to fool everyone and pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. The real reason for the pitch clock is to shorten the playing time so they can jam in more commercials. Game will always be 3 hours, but they want to be able to have many more mins of commercials in that 3 hours. SAD what Manfred is trying to do.
Also the MLBAM deal with Disney will be the death nail of baseball. terrible deal.
I can buy that argument. They aren’t going about the rules they’d need to change to speed up the game. Not even close. I can believe the changes are being made to jam more commercials for more revenue.
I don’t see the union agreeing to the three batter minimum. That would ruin the careers of all the LOOGYs out there.
The 26 man roster is a good idea, but there’s no reason to restrict it to 28 in September. The expanded rosters are there for a reason, that being to allow top prospects a cup of coffee at the MLB level after the minor league seasons end.
Why revert back to a 15-day DL? Sure, some manipulations have gotten a little ridiculous, but I thought the 10-day DL has overall improved the game more than it’s hurt it.
What’s wrong with position players pitching? If they’re willing to take the risk, then I see no reason not to let them do so. It’s a rather creative solution for blowouts or long extra-inning games that doesn’t hurt anything. In fact, it probably helps some pitchers avoid fatigue or injury by not forcing them to pitch more than they really should in those situations. Besides, how do you enforce it now that two-way players like Ohtani are starting to come to the game?
Moving the mound back… I don’t know. That might be the line for me. I can put up with a lot… pointless pace of play stuff, financial and competitive inequities, what have you… but moving the mound back. Jeezus.
Maybe then we can start reusing hitters… hit a double, run to second, then he can yell “ghost runner on second!” and go bat himself in.
Just enforce the current pitch clock rule, and the batter stepping out of the batter’s box rule, and they will save a 1/2 an hour a game of dead time
I absolutely detest the idea of a 3 batter minimum. Destroying the ability to get your best match up with an arbitrary number simply to speed up games is total garbage.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to vent.
Agreed, and I don’t think it will make much of a difference.
On the other hand, for the anti-DH crowd, this rule could replace some of the precious “strategy” that will be lost when the NL adopts the DH.
*face palms followed by loud sigh*
Warning Will Robinson. Robot umps you gotta be kidding. And I don’t see any Atlantic League pitcher getting a look in MLB with a relocated mound
I may have missed this but what about the DH in both leagues?
Burhle for the sox used to throw complete games in under two hours with little offense and a DH. Burhle also spent little time on the dl or whatever it’s called. All of the nonsense they are propsosing won’t speed up the game. Reward pitchers for cg or 8+ innings.
What??!!! No more down-voting??!!! I know there are some guys that are going to be very upset about this, as down-voting is the only reason they log in everyday, and perhaps is the highlight of their day! I guess theyll either have to learn to spell down-voted or now be forced to return to playing Fortnite.
Downvoting was removed in agreement with mlbtr, MLB and MLBPA. That was slowing the game down.
Take rally-killing pitchers out of the hitting lineup. 98% of pitchers are useless with a bat. Catchers too.
Manfred=Goodell
Robot umps already, please.
What about the DH?
They should make the pitchers pitch out of a 10 inch pitcher’s pit instead of off of a mound.
They should implement robot umpires, that have chainsaws for arms and shoot lasers out of their eyes.
Robot umpires that demand hot chocolate and throw around personal insults would be better than moving the mound back. Hard to believe the idea of moving the mound back was ever muttered.
I’m all for replacing the input of umpires if it results in more accuracy.
Would also rather see a universal DH than in one league, but none would be more ideal.
I’d be on board with all of the proposed rule changes mentioned here with the exception of the three-batter minimum per pitcher. It seems to me if that rule was implemented there would be less need to mandate the 13 and 14 pitcher roster limits. I’d just assume keep the age old strategy factor of managers changing relievers at will along with those accompanying double-switches while also mandating those suggested roster limits for pitchers.
Of course, this is a strategy that is mostly implemented in the NL. Since I am also in favor of a universal DH much of the double-switching strategy would become a thing of the past but the use of right-handed specialists and the LOOGY could still exist just fine.
I’d change it to a 2 batter minimum. 15 day DL for pitchers..
Reduce the width of home plate by 1 inch (0.5 inch on both sides). The pitchers will be able to pitch slightly less into the pull zone.
If a pitch hits the body (not the hand/wrist) of a batter that is leaning over the batters then that batter is out. This will slightly affect the batters leaning to pull the pitch.
Pitch clock is fine. One warning per inning, then extra ball on the pitcher.
Schedule two double headers in the first half of the season. One at home and one away.
Move the all-star game later, one or two weeks. I don’t like to see the votes on one half of the season.
Move the first trading deadline to Aug. 7 to allow more time for teams to determine if they are buyers or sellers (and want to tank).
Correction. It should read “of a batter that is leaning over the batters BOX then that batter is out.”