Click here to read a transcript of today’s chat with host Jeff Todd.
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By Jeff Todd | at
Click here to read a transcript of today’s chat with host Jeff Todd.
MLB Trade Rumors is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, MLB or MLB.com
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Puig said his reason for not appealing his suspension was because he didn’t want to talk to Joe Torre again. Classic.
I gotta say Jeff, you need to tone down the attitude when people ask about extensions. I for one believe that the teams do have some blame, I agree with you, but attacking your users like that isn’t a good look.
every other question for the past however many months has been about extentions, and thats just the ones he’s fielded. i imagine its gotten annoying.
Either way, he selects the questions to answer. If it’s an issue, don’t answer them. I’m tired of the MLBTR blame game for one.
What blame game? I don’t pan every extension. Far from it. That’s why I got annoyed at the one question — if you want to criticize or disagree with me, that’s cool. But at least treat my arguments fairly. I was discussing this particular contract on its own terms, not bemoaning every deal signed in the last month.
Jeff, appreciation here for all the great reading you provide,do you feel that all these signings will take away from free agency if this keeps up, and if so what do teams like Texas or Baltimore do in the future.
I’m with you Jeff. The issue was fairness, not necessarily criticism. I think it’s fans not reacting well to perceived criticism of their team, whether it’s fair criticism, or not even criticism to begin with. I know I bristle about much of what is said about the Giants even though, if I’m objective, what’s said is unfortunately true.
I’m more offended at Braves fans watching Jays fans be wildly annoying about how good they think AA is (when he’s an absolutely terrible GM and we all know it) then they SECOND AA goes to ATL, Braves fans literally morph into that Jays mentality we all saw on here of “defend my terrible GM at ALL costs, logic, facts and reason be damned!!!”
Ranger Fan …
The impact will be spread since these guys are all over the map in terms of distance from free agency. But there’s no question the increase in extensions for significant players will impact free agency — AND arbitration. Some of these guys are the types who’d have been pushing the ceiling on arb money.
I’m not sure it has an outsized impact for any particular team. The Rangers and O’s have shown pretty significant spending willingness in the past and have obviously had plenty of success. No reason to think they can’t get back to that. They’ll have their own chances at extensions and will otherwise have roster spots to put to use to lure good free agents or take chances on players that end up being blocked by these long-term deals. (Or they’ll just trade for some of these contracts, most of which don’t come with no-trade rights.)
The “users” are homer-trolls who are not basing anything they say other than “dahhh theyre MYYYY team they are ALWAYS right NO MATTER WHAT” – its moron-level discourse and I want Jeff and the rest of the team here to show people the right way, because these types are literally siding with billionaire owners who do absolutely nothing vs players who drive the industry 100%
If I was a Braves fan I’d be stoked to have elite players locked in but I’d be sick to my stomach about how that happened. At least they can just turn a game on and forget about how American society is quickly going down the drain because of stuff like this. Soon all players will be on $15/hour and owners will be making trillions….
When a player makes a couple hundred thousand (per game) as Bryce Harper is currently doing now ,then yes I do believe players are being overpaid, should owners make millions in profits because they spent millions and millions to purchase the teams and I also mean the 5-7 farm teams they are supporting, yes they should be able to turn a profit the same as the players are trying to do, but we do need a form of minimum and maximum pay, Baseball can and will not continue at this high rate of pay. And everyone deserves to voice an opinion.
Have you actually looked at the profits though? Year by year? League-wide they have gone through the roof. So with you, it’s a simple “the players do not deserve a bigger piece of the pie they make and deserve less than that, because 1 man bought the ingredients and they deserve the biggest piece” – that’s what you mean right? I guess that’s ok, but why? Are you a fan of a ruling society where a 100o billionaires speak and run the country for the other 350 million aka the rest of the people who the system failed?
Don’t even think there is even 1000 billionaires on the planet. How are you doing today Scott?
There’s 2153 billionaires on the planet right now. But dont even try to use google or anything!!!
Albies is not an elite player. he isn’t even top 5 at the second base position. He got a good guaranteed deal. When you over rate Albies the deal looks short.
To fairness, the deal pays him to stay in Atlanta and be average.
He MAY be better then average. If he hits like the first half of 2018, he’s elite. If he hits like the second half of 2018, he wouldn’t have a job.
It’s a good deal for both sides.
Any fan on any team would be stoked to see a very good core player locked up to a contract like Albies just got. These guys are still making millions to play a game.
The greatest thing the owners have done in recent years has been this year,Locking up the home grown talent at reasonably fair hometown prices, the bad part about is cutting down significantly on free agency, it will all come down to trades in the future because of this,One of the downsides to this is teams like my Rangers don’t have that superstar to lockup long term, This year has been a crazy free agency, I do believe the Rangers we’re counting on free agent superstars to sign next year to open our new stadium, all the superstars renegotiated this year for some reason and extended.Texas is in need of a hero since Josh Hamilton left. Who we gonna get ?
That literally the worst thing about this, your head is on backwards. The owners are making EXPONENTIALLY more profit every single year, each year they make more. By locking in players to disgustingly-under market deals, they screwed over the whole game just to line their own pockets, all the while LYING about not having money for Kimbrel. They have ALL the money, and by doing this, they make more.
I’m sick of the business side of this game, its ruining it. Ban all owners and let the players run the league.
The business side has been around since the game became a professional sport. Selling Babe Ruth was a business move (a bad one) but that no more killed the game than the situations now.
Exactly! They should have all learnt from Ruth!
You mad bro?
Especially when the Braves won’t really spend on established players. They got McCann for less and they got Donaldson for 1 year.
kinda bummed my opt out proposal didnt get selected
Didn’t see it, but you are welcome to post it here and I’ll respond.
huh weird. anyways i was thinking about a midseason FA opt out date for all players signed to minors deals. any player on a minors deal can agree with their team to remain on the same deal, negotiate a new deal, or opt out if they. the idea is that, given more and more players are settling for minors deals at low value, players who have outpreformed these deals can test FA and try to make some more money, perhaps filling in for players who have already been lost for the season. id think itd make sense to do before the trade deadline, as so that there are less holes aready filled and more options for these players. this plan would encourage teams to sign players to Majors deals rather then Minors deals to start the season, and would help players who bet on themselves with minors deals. (im pretty sure my original post was better, but that’s the general idea)
There are a lot of chat questions.
That sounds not unlike the Article XX(B) system, which includes standard provisions to protect veterans. see, e.g.: mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2014-15-article-xxb-fre… Players also generally do negotiate opt-outs, both during camp and in the middle of the season.
yeah, i know that opt outs are in play under the contracts, but i think the extra standardized opt out could help drum up more intertest.
Hmmm, 45 million reasons to accept……
In 7 years that will be minimum wage. You really don’t get the level of profits MLB is making….
What I get is, he chose financial security for his family, just not now but for generations to come, all courtesy of the organization that took a chance on him and provided the opportunity.
Sure, but … is it ever possible to criticize one of these deals, then?
That’s all fine and well, but why did that organization lowball him? If the Braves came to both these guys and went “200 mill for 8 years” we’d all be lauding them as doing the right thing and making a wise move. They instead offered them less than Eloy, who had no MLB experience. These are certified elite players who are all-stars in their short time in the game. The Braves made $442 million last year, and will be making more than that every year. These are peanuts deals. Also, not a good look when they both aren’t white guys, they are guys with backgrounds that lend you to think maybe they don’t come from wealthy families. Literally every aspect of this stinks if you aren’t a Braves fan.
I try to find the positive in things, Jeff. The world (and occasionally these comment threads) already have enough negativity.
To expand on my thoughts, what I see in guys like Albies, Acuna, Jose Ramirez, etc, are young men who probably grew in with very little in their childhoods, and are making sure any children they have won’t, while being able to provide for their entire family now.
Yes, there is a lot of money being made by owners, but nobody is forcing them to sign on the dotted line. They have chosen security over uncertainty. Good for them.
If Albies is happy, I’m happy for him. But I’ll still call the deal how I see it in relation to the remainder of the market.
How the hell do you know what they will make year after year? YOU DONT. Nobody forced Acuna or Albies to sign extensions, they could play out there contracts and leave if they wanted to. Do you know what it means to pay unproven players? Do Acuna or Albies have to forfeit their contracts if they only play the next 3 years? Looks extremely great for them at that point. Hmmmmmmm
But I do know what they could’ve made year over year. And what other, similarly situated players have earned in their own extensions. And what kind of on-field value the teams expect to receive from exceptional, exceptionally youthful players.
So … what’s your point here?
As I said, I have no quarrel with a player that wants to be protected. But the deal is notably tilted toward the team as against the player’s market value, in all its aspects. We consider and assess that sort of thing here, being as it’s more or less the entirety of what we cover at this website.
I don’t understand entirely why people are so upset at hearing that obvious fact stated plainly.
Jeff, it’s just homerism = a borderline form of mental illness at this point when we get to the point where we have extreme-fans of teams who will defend literally any action by them or their players. It’s actually quite a dangerous way to wire your brain…
Then add in some weird sub-category where how front offices do in the public eye is almost as important as actual wins on the board, and here we have Braves fans not getting that their fave team’s owners ripping off their own fave players is actually a terrible thing. It’s a strange place to be, I agree, but it remains unsettling to have people argue otherwise. Just admit yeah your owners aren’t good people, they took advantage of a situation to make themselves more money, and perhaps throw in a “haha now we can keep these elite players AND sign a big money FA!”
What other similarity situated players are you speaking of? Maybe Trout and that’s it. Trout got his extension after how much playing time. Acuna is the youngest player to get signed to a 100 million dollar contract with LESS than a full year of service time and somehow that’s still not good enough. This is why mid to small market teams can’t afford a player like Mookie or Trout. You know what happens when you go out and spend with no regards to what it costs, you become the Chicago Cubs. Unable to spend because they overstretched to far. Btw Strike Four you shouldn’t talk about mental illnesses, I’ve seen some of the stuff you have written and you can be at best be described as delusional. If you ran a major league team in 2 to 3 years you would be declaring bankruptcy due to poor financial choices.
That’s probably a gross not net number
Man, people must love playing Atlanta. Decent chance the Acuna and Albies extensions go down as some of the best in the history of the game?
Worst, if you care about players more than faceless billionaires.
You need a new gimmick, pal. Your stuff is staler than year old bread. Also, your “crusade” is pretty weak if all you do is whine about it on this site.
I whine about plenty of things, I’m pro-player and always will be – LOUDLY.
Ok so if your pro player and both players agreed to this why dont you respect their choices?
No, because athletes are not known for being financial (or otherwise) geniuses.
Have you seriously not heard the phrase “dumb jock” before??? Former MLB players have ended up homeless before. Please stop.
Uh, I’d guess that’s why they have agents? Maybe you need to stop now.
Just delusional. You say your for the players while you call them dumb. Why dont you stop trying to make choices for the “dumb” players and get a life.
There’s no debate.If both Albies and Acuna live up to their potential,the Braves will be getting a buy 1 star,get 1 star free deal with these extensions.Im an envious Phillie fan right now.
They dont have to do anything, the Braves literally just ripped off 2 superstars for no reason.
Sure, Acuna getting $100 Million is just terrible.
smh….
sure, their ownership making x% more then the players get is just terrible. I dont think you get the point here, its not that people want players to be paid more, its that more and more of the price youre paying for tickets is going to the people who arent the ones you pay to see. i get thats how business works, but people have a right to think the cut each person gets is unfair, especially when it seems do be dwindling by the year.
But they are the ones who provide the product….at their expense.
And stop telling me that I don’t get the point. It’s your point, not mine.
no there were two reasons
1. theyre cheap
2. acuna and albies let themselves be ripped off
I’m sure McGuirk held the door while AA held a pistol on them to sign it.
im pretty sure that this was ownership’s idea, AA just was executing orders. either way, he is doing his job, and i cant fault a GM for making such a move. Blame in my mind typically rests on ownership.
Here’s the thing, not one single person has any reason to be upset or question the deals. The team approved. The agent approved. The player approved. That’s the only thing that matters. People whining about owner profits and market value are wasting time. The owner of any and every company will always be the one with the padded wallets while their employees make much less. At least in this scenario, we’re talking about a guy who is set for life, has a job he loves, and gets to work with his best buddy. Business is cutthroat but all involved are happy. Put away the puffs plus.
When I first saw Acuna’s deal and now Albies, I was really excited about it. Knowing that this would allow the Braves flexibility to pursue big name players to make runs at titles, but when I start to read the comments about how players are low balled and how people are upset, it really starts to get VERY annoying. It’s almost like we shouldn’t be excited about it or something. In the 90’s Chipper, Maddux, and Smoltz took way less money to stay with the Braves. Despite having much larger offers from the Yankees specifically, and other teams as well. The Braves as it stands right now, will never hand out contracts like Ted Turner did. This helps them greatly in that aspect of winning. Acuna is Albies best friend and maybe he wanted to stay with him here and likes it a lot. Not everything is about money. I’m really confused how people can be so upset.
I was seriously hoping Albies would get $100M after Acuna, after everyone ever panned the living heck out of Acuna’s deal. Would have been easier to stomach if it was just 1 guy getting ripped off, not two.
The whole “Braves fan thinking this is just jealousy because we got our elite young stars AND can afford top line FA’s” is just way off. I hate to break it to you but ATL’s owners could afford like 5 8/200 deals right now, they are straight up lying – as are any other owner who cries poor – you own a frickin baseball team, you aren’t poor and you absolutely CAN afford any player ever.
It’s true, I’m not a Braves fan but if they gave them both 8/200 you would not hear a peep out of me, because that is fair and market value for both those talent levels.
Knowing how the Braves signed young players in the past… this deal may have been agreed upon years ago.
Go get em, Coppy!?
Great signing for the Braves. Locking up Acuna and Albies at a value gives them more dollars to improve the team! I’m shocked you’re blaming the team here. If he blows out his elbow or knee then this contract looks poor for the Braves.
It’s a little humorous we’re discussing how a young kid getting $35 mil is getting hosed.
Financial security means a lot more to some of these players than others.
“If he blows out his elbow or knee then this contract looks poor for the Braves.”
Bro, these guys aren’t pitchers, name any star position players who have had those injuries and never come back to above replacement level. You simply can’t. That excuse is just another one the owners keep repeating as if them “losing” money on players matters to them, when like 95% of team owners do it as a hobby and are making more money on other ventures and could easily be throwing 100M deals left and right.
With all this whining it really is starting to make me think jealously is involved. If your team did this you’d be jumping up and down for how your team got a bargain. I honestly think these are precursors to bigger moves to come and allows the Braves to be contenders for longer and pursue titles. If in a few years if they aren’t doing anything to spend or what not, than I’ll be right here with you to complain. As it stands right now I’m actually baffled how offended everyone is. It’s sad, and to be completely honest downright pathetic. This is great for the fans, and the team (if they keep spending in the future). Albies chose this, if you’re so “sick to your stomach” feel free to send Ozzie checks in the mail. I’m sure he’d appreciate it. I’ve never seen you this upset Jeff (cry me a river), it really sounds like you care almost too much. Are the owners and the massive profits the reason people are so upset? Do they hate the rich that much? Please explain your stance in detail, because I’m really trying to grasp where you’re coming from.
“I’m really trying to grasp where you’re coming from.”
No you’re not – you just spent a long, poorly-written paragraph mocking J. Todd and anyone who dares to critique the owners. You sound like a condescending jerk.
You don’t seem to appreciate my perspective here at all. These are all rich people who are either playing or putting on a game, so I’m not sure what that has to do with it.
Where I’m coming from is simple, and explains why my perspective is so different from many fans. I closely follow the market for baseball players … so when I see a contract that seems way out of whack for that player’s market value, taking into account all aspects of that value, I say so.
Go read some of my prior posts on extensions and tell me if I just “hate the rich” and think all players should earn more in every case. I evaluate every deal on its own merits and also try to understand the bigger picture. But I have no particular axe to grind here.
mlbtraderumors.com/2016/03/royals-salvador-perez-m…
mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/tigers-to-extend-miguel…
mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/contextualizing-the-jon…
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/01/making-sense-of-the-whi…
Hey Jeff appreciate all the time you put into the site and for wadding into this mess of a comment section and trying to logic out your points. I think you are partially a victim of the many posters on here who are making some loose and extremely vitriolic arguments.
To the discussion, the part of your logic I have issue with is the assessment of the market. Many of your arguments are based around the stratospheric contracts that were handed out a few years ago. I believe it created a false market not based in reality. GM’s were inevitably going to wise up to that fact. They did and have stopped handing out mega contracts to players in their 30’s. In addition they stopped the 6/100 and 5/85’s you would see for mid level free agents. The players have not adjusted their market to this new reality. Compounding the issue is how the current system depresses the earnings of younger players. Current understanding of aging curves has led teams to seek younger players both for on field performance and cost certainty. But I think the fix is fairly simple the MLBPA needs to shift more money to younger players in the next CBA. What I don’t understand is the vitriolic arguments, No one is asking Chris Davis to give his money back, and the players are still doing well. The Owners are winning a bit here, and I have no problem with it. They are still handing out life changing amounts of money. To take it one step further I like the Owners being strong because all these extensions tappers down player movement, which is good for the fans of their homegrown stars. The Owners should take advantage of being in an advantageous position. That being said the players have every right to battle in the next CBA, it is how the system works.
Again thanks for the time and work Jeff.
Thanks.
We are always trying to re-calibrate our sense of market value. I don’t believe we are living in the past. It can’t be that the true value of a win to a team has suddenly plummeted. So how has the cost of a win fallen so suddenly, even as revenue continues to rise?
I agree with you about aging curves and the failure of the labor side to anticipate/react. Teams have now almost universally adopted value-focused, sophisticated accurately analytical approaches that take full advantage of a system that took as a fundamental assumption the payment of stars for their previously demonstrated production.
Actual on-field value shifted younger. MLB wisely negotiated for cheap amateur intake and the players assented while also failing to push up the earnings for young MLB players. The result is at a minimum a window within which teams can get the production they want for less.
Even within this world, the Albies contract stands out … as do a few others, as I have stated throughout the winter. It’s a bit stunning to me that the players’ assn hasn’t figured out some way to protect its own long-term collective earning/bargaining power. As I said in the chat, the concept of investing in players’ future earnings (eg Big League Advance) seems quite promising … there’s also insurance. Perhaps there ought to be more work done on these kinds of fronts.
By all means, it’s correct to point out the Chris Davis and Pujols and Miggy et al deals. They aren’t giving their money back, true. But … we called those deals out at the time also!
e.g. …
mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/tigers-to-extend-miguel…
“the staggering overall commitment is fraught with risk … it is difficult to see this deal creating surplus value for Detroit, and rather easy to see how it could end up working out poorly for the club”
Well, one thing I can say is that the owners have seemed to figure it out.
Analytics have certainly played a part in this, too, going with younger players that are providing more value.
Owners were taking an increasingly larger slice of the pie before the current CBA was agreed upon. The players agreed to marginal increases in the luxury tax threshold. Then the owners and execs started slow-playing the free agent market and now they are getting team-friendly extensions for the most part.
To get back a bigger piece. the union should start gearing up for a strike. It’s the only thing of consequence I can think of that could tilt the scales back to them. It could ruin baseball. I don’t think Clark and the current leadership have the guts to do it.
Something really needs to be done for minor league players. Is there any law about organizing them into a union?
@kyleschwarbersmom How is it going to ruin baseball? Everyone keeps talking about these massive profits teams are getting, yet attendance is way down across the entire league. People aren’t showing up to games. Where’s all the money coming from? The Braves have a piss poor TV deal and rely solely on revenue from ticket sales, merch, surrounding areas, etc. I guess I’m just too stupid to understand that the Braves making out extremely well with these deals =somethings wrong.
A strike will very well damage baseball but what else can the players do.
There’s money everywhere in MLB. A trip to the ballpark is designed to vacuum the last penny from your pockets.
Dynamic ticket pricing.
Outrageous concession prices.
Luxury seating near the field and in the suites.
Advertising and naming rights.
Merchandising and licensing.
Massive national TV deals.
Local TV and radio.
MLB Advanced Media.
That’s where the money is coming from and I’m sure I’m missing something.
I wasn’t telling you anything, I was simply asking. I get it though, you just hate this particular deal because you feel like he took way less than what he’s going to be worth and I get that and it’s probably going to turn out that way. Why, though, do you care if Albies wanted to stay in Atlanta and be beside his friend? He wanted this. That should be the end of it. Yet you keep making statements about how this was so horrible for him. and the team should be embarrassed for making that kind of offer. Why shouldn’t a team try to get the best bargain they can? Is it so wrong for fans like myself to get excited about this? It’s really appalling. Whatever though man, you’re entitled to your opinion. I just think it’s rather silly when I read all these comments on how everyone is embarrassed and offended.
“You’re entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is stupid” is the tl;dr of your posts.
If you want to be a jerk, be a jerk, but don’t pretend that you’re just having a civil conversation.
This is the second time you’ve replied to me after I ignored you the first time. Sorry you feel that way, but I’d rather not have a discussion with someone that’s easily offended.
“Easily offended” = calls out people who are being needlessly rude.
It’s cute how you make rude comments, then try to spin it as though I’m somehow being unfair by responding.
You’re a gaslighter as well as a troll.
If you stop being so condescending, I’ll stop calling you out. It’s easy!
So resorting to name calling isn’t rude? At least fantasicword is bringing his opinion on the topic at hand. You may not agree with it or like it, in which case you can say so. But you did not, instead you resorted to name calling. At least he has something to offer. You do not. By definition the real troll here is you.
“It’s cute how you make rude comments, then try to spin it as though I’m somehow being unfair by responding.”
No, I was just choosing to ignore you instead of getting more fired up than I initially was. You can be as rude as you want to me buddy I can take it. Just like Jeff can.
“You’re a gaslighter as well as a troll.” Interesting. How do you figure? I haven’t said anything that would indicate I’m trolling. Not that it matters but I will mention that I barely post on here. If I had to guess, I’ve made less than a couple of handfuls of posts on here in the last year.
“If you stop being so condescending, I’ll stop calling you out. It’s easy!”
Oooooo You really showed me! Easy there tough guy, trying to police these boards as if you’re going to somehow “teach me a lesson” isn’t a good look. I’ve been down that road before and it’s only going to stress you out more than you probably already are. A 42 year old man getting upset because people are being rude to Jeff. Laughable.
Last year I had Ozzie on my fantasy team. He did not have a good second half. I then read he has issues at the plate. As a result I passed on him this year. While he is having a good start to the season, let’s wait a bit as to his future. I don’t think he is at Acuna’s level. Several years ago Buxton was touted as a future great. If he would have received Ozzie’s contract, folks may have said he left money on the table. Maybe Ozzie and his agent are as confident about his future as some think.
One money matter we overlook is how much is the Ballplayer getting for shoe endorsements,,commercials, events.
Jeff i use to like what you had to say but you took the whole Ozzie thing to far, you literally had 4 comments each time someone mentioned. You said so much I quit reading it. After about the 6th comment you made about it I just gave up, guy is making millions of dollars just shut up about it
We’ll just stop discussing baseball contracts then, I guess?
Listen, I know I probably ran on about it. But I wanted to try to make my angle on it clear. I understand that he’s rich and that he wanted the deal, but it still stands out against the established market. And I’m trying to explain why I see it that way — and why I also take a different view of many other contracts that are also “team-friendly” in the sense of securing the services of a good player at a rate less than would be required through free agency.
Also there’s nothing much else to discuss right now other than small-sample issues. And it’s hard to say much on that since I deplore early-season hot takes.
I enjoy these chats and thanks for taking the time, lots of people complain of players not making enough money,can baseball survive if all 25 player on the team are making 15 million a year, then replacement comes up and another 15 million, but that’s the low side,multiple players are making 20-25 million per year, what is that per year to play a game or as some call it entertainment, Where was my 20 million while in the Marines for six years defending this great ballgame. Thanks for the great article and keep up the good work.