Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman defended his organization’s approach to the trade deadline, as J.P. Hoornstra of the Orange County Register reports. There was some consternation as the team came away with only Jedd Gyorko and Adam Kolarek yesterday, but Friedman says he’s satisfied the front office played its hand correctly.
“I think our position was to be aggressive,” said Friedman. “As far as process, conversations and how aggressive we were, we feel really good about what we can control,” he added.
With a generally exemplary roster, there weren’t many areas for the Dodgers to upgrade, though the bullpen was certainly one. Perhaps it didn’t help that many of the top relievers were held by the rival Giants. A late injury to Ken Giles may have skewed the top of the market.
Most of all, the Dodgers seemed to be focused (quite understandably) on a few top assets — in particular, so far as was known publicly, ace Pirates closer Felipe Vazquez. Whether they’d ultimately line up wasn’t so much a matter of broad market considerations as individual negotiations.
It simply didn’t happen on Vazquez, with the Bucs reportedly demanding top Dodgers prospect Gavin Lux. Pittsburgh GM Neal Huntington says the team was simply “looking for what we felt was an appropriate return for one of the best relievers in baseball,” as Rob Biertempfel of The Athletic reports (subscription link). That characterization of Vazquez — an apt one, it’s worth noting, even before considering his exceptionally valuable contract situation — offers some insight as to why the deal wasn’t consummated.
Friedman did not address Vazquez specifically. But he hinted that the club was willing to go beyond its valuations to land such a talent — just not as far as would’ve been necessary.
“If you expect to win a deal from a value standpoint in July, you’re not going to make deals,” he said. “We made plenty of offers that were definitely underwater from a value standpoint but felt good about making because of the team that we have.”
The subtext here is a tough one for some to accept: it was only worth so much future value to improve in the immediate term. Every team has had to reckon with such considerations, even before the analytical explosion. The narrative of the Dodgers as prospect-clutching misers is not really a fair one. This club went big for Yu Darvish and Manny Machado in successive deadlines. There really wasn’t much need for the team to seek marginal improvements to this particular roster, given the monster lead it has already built in the NL West.
Still, it’s tough for Dodgers fans not to wish that this team had somehow managed to install a premium new relief arm at the back of the pen. That’s especially true given how agonizingly close the team has come to a championship in recent campaigns, and how good it is already. The L.A. front office is confident it handled the trade market in a responsible manner, but it’s also aware that one never knows how the picture will look until the games are played. “A year or two from now, that could end up being a really good thing,” Friedman said of the way the deadline played out. “We’re not sure.”
Astros are one of the top 3-5 favorites to win the Series before the deadline and they overpay for Greinke to put them over the top. Dodgers should have made a godfather offer for Vasquez.
And how
Many championships did atl win with Mad
Dog glavine and smoltz don’t be so sure
One, which is more than the Dodgers have with Friedman’s strategy!
He had acquired the top trade target by outbidding other teams each of the last 2 years. It takes more than one player to win the WS. People need to stop being haters.
Facts!
Except machado was acquired cause seager got hurt. They acquired darvish cause their pitching that year had injuries.
Those moves didnt out them over the top. They were made to keep them in contention. Big difference.
Astros already had a great 3 man rotation. Now they have a top 3 if not the best 4 man rotation.
They added to the pen too.
The astros put themselves over the top. Dodgers know their pen sucks and did nothing. Least braves acquired multiple pen help.
I was replying to the implication that Friedman sits on his hands during trade deadlines which is categorically false.
Verlander won exactly 0 WS games for Astros. Left both his starts trailing. He did not get them “over the top”.
Greinke guarantees nothing…between him, Verlander, and Cole they have exactly 0 WS victories. So to say he puts them “over the top” is a bit premature.
Time and time again Dodgers blow it in later innings of big games… Felipe would’ve gone a long way to solve those problems as a bridge to Kenley or even closing games and having Kenley set up games…
Why if one disagrees with your point of view are they listed as a hater? If all goes well for the Dodgers and their bullpen fails them and costs them a series and the title, that one player may have made a difference. We shall see come the post season and how it plays out.
How many times have the Giants come in last since the Dodgers have employed Friedman’s strategy?
There will always be somebody who may have made a difference. Sorry, you’re not deep.
Verlander didn’t get them over the top?
Verlander practically owned the Yankees more than any Steinbrenner in the ALCS. You better check your facts because without Verlander the Astros do not reach the World Series. He was a difference maker and gave the Astros a newfound confidence they never had. That’s how he put that franchise over the top.
Cubs won with one player Chapman Astros with one player verlander . It can be done
Between 1995 and 2005 atl won their division 11 times but only got 1 championship to show for it. Yes that’s 1 more than the Dodgers but they also failed ten times. So far we’re only at six.
How do know? Do have a crystal ball? Vasquez has no post season experience. So to come out and say he would do this or that is pure speculation. In other words BS!!!!
Who needs Vasquez when we have May? We don’t need no stinkin’ trades to put us over the top. May and Lux et al will do it.
Astros didn’t overpay
50/50 on that
Astros gave up one top 100 prospect (actually the 100th prospect) in Seth beer, who is limited defensively but may turn out to be an everyday 1b. JB Bukauskas is more than likely a future closer, and probably a good one. Rojas is an mlb ready utility guy, already 25 with no immediate spot in Houston. And Corbin Martin has some maturity issues to work out, plus just had TJ… from what I understand, Houston will only be paying $53MM for Grienke for the next 2.5 years. I take that deal all day.
JB Bukauskas is a prospect I like better than his ranking on most lists. It’ll be interesting to see how he develops in AZ.
@jb19 Greinke is also 36 and with pitchers rapid decline is almost expected over the age of 30 hence why they only signed verlander to short term extension despite being one the most dominant pitchers. They probably aren’t resigning cole for this reason so to me they are comfortable rolling with verlander and greinke the next couple of years.
It was the deal az had to make just because they already traded goldy and lost polluck and landed 3 top 10 prospects and a solid high floor low ceiling guy. I also think that they could have had whitley but he has been pretty terrible and metrics don’t favor him at all. Unless he is dealing with injury he looks to fallen off a cliff in terms of shine and production.
Whitley will be fine. I’m sure Arizona would have preferred whitley over Martin and his recent TJ surgery… there has been no evidence of “rapid decline” in Verlander or Grienke. I agree, makes sense for Arizona to get what they could for Grienke. Just don’t be surprised when these guys don’t have a big impact on a major league roster.
agreed aboit Grienke’s age but i can’t help but compare him to Nolan Ryan during the same phase if his career. The guy seemed to only get better until, if i recall, his early 40s, aboit 43? Grienke just seems yo have a similar healthy robustness.
see my new comment 1 minute ago. I agree fully.
Read it. We basically said the same thing… after Luhnow’s trades (outside of Gomez), I find it hard to question anything the guy does.
And Astros are generally SUCH good guys, too! So it saddens me to say goodbye to D Fisher, Kemp, Stassi, Musgrove, etc – but we don’t have ROOM for all these pretty decent ballplayers, and so they’re generally better off elsewhere.
Still don’t fully grasp the Morton loss – my thinking was that Astros saw something that worried them?
Astros are good guys? Sure most of them are but don’t forget your current closer Osuna was acquired after domestic violence crime, and Gurriel with racist taunts in World Series.
You are not running Tampa anymore . If u give up a good prospect you can spend in free agency and replace him .
Not the Rays anymore !! Get a set of balls and WIN a World Series for a change ..
I don’t understand the hard on NH had for Lux. He isn’t a need. We have Frazier, Newman, Tucker, Kramer as middle infielders. We are fine there. If the LADs would have made the deal, it would have been a one for one and that wouldn’t suffice for the Pirates. They needed something like Smith/Ruiz and May as the return, because we lack catchers in the system and our starting pitchers are bad. This is why I think NH is one of the worst GMS in the business and I won’t even get into the Archer deal.
Similar to draft strategies, you don’t always trade for need unless you are contending right now, but best player available. Good chance Lux will be better than all the players you listed above.
Lux was the initial ask in order to try to get BOTH Ruiz and May. The Dodgers wouldn’t give up May.
And you slamming NH for setting a high price and sticking to it…?
So, you loved the Cole deal, then?
Glad to see some Pirates fans on here, really like to get some perspective. Why do you think a Ruiz, Gonsolin, and downs deal wouldn’t have been accepted or maybe it just wasn’t offered. We’re not known to offer three top tens, but three top tens in our system is as good or better than what anyone else offered for anything else out there….maybe outside of Astros for Greinke but people don’t predict any of those to be impact players. Ruiz would have headlined and outside of a down year this year he was our best prospect coming in and will be an impact guy. Would that have been enough for you guys?
That prospect package looks more ideal for LA. I suspect Pittsburgh would want a bit more considering the contract Vazquez had signed before 2018 season.
As I understand it, Ruiz has serious upside as far as hit tool & defense. Downs projects as a very solid middle infielder but lacking the upside of Lux(especially power potential). Gonsolin is a later blooming prospect and this seems to weigh down his perceived value(Brock Stewart, anyone?).
Nutting demsnded two bags of baseballsthats why i didnt happen lol
The deal had to include Ruiz AND May to make sense for the Pirates.
I very much wanted Ruiz as he’d fill their biggest need. But look at what happened with Mejia. He was considered just as good a propsect as Ruiz. If the Pirates trade Vazquez for Ruiz and some stuff and Ruiz pulls a Mejia….? It’s a disaster. Too much variance in Gonsolin. Downs is redundant in a Pirates system loaded with middle infielders.
My question is why the Dodgers decided they needed TWO catchers of the future and a pitcher they wouldn’t miss more than one of the best closers in the game when it’s their blatant Achilles’ heel?
I don’t think your comparison to Mejia and Ruiz is accurate. There were poor grades of Mejia’s defense during his years in minors.
I suspect that both May and Lux are not being moved for a reliever. Why overpay for a shutdown lefty reliever(albeit probably the best in the game) when they can utilize Urias in that role? They’re likely banking on Kelly’s continued improvement and having Maeda on hand for high leverage innings late in the season and playoffs.
Mejia is hitting .223 with 4 HR. Slugging .360. OPS of .628. OPS+ of 70.
If his defense is bad on top of that, then even a top 20 ranked 60 FV catching prospect (which both Mejia and Ruiz were/are) is far from a sure thing, yes?
Uh. What?
Vasquez is an elite closer – better than anyone you have in your pen.
And he would be under 4+ years of control. That is an incredibly valuable asset for a team for whom anything but a World Series victory is a disappointment.
The Cubs gave up Gleyber Torres (top 50) to rent Aroldis Chapman – btw they are flying 2016 flags. The Indians gave up a top 50 (Clint Frazier) and top 100 (Justus Sheffield) for 2+ years of a 31 year-old Andrew Miller, and it got them to the 2016 World Series which they almost won.
The Dodger may be good enough to win it anyway, but they could have strengthened their bullpen quite a bit. Andrew Friedman – you aren’t in Tampa anymore…
What’s the real price to win a World Series for the first time in 20 years. The Dodgers have unlimited resources and can replace any “ prospect “ in free agency or international signings. I think this will all play out in playoffs.
No, I didn’t like the Cole deal. Thought Feliz sucked for starters and he does. No, I’m not slamming NH for sticking to a high ask. I’m slamming him for keeping his stance on Lux, if he did because he wasn’t a need.
We don’t know if NH was keeping his stance on Lux. That is what “insiders” were saying but none of those people were in on the conversations. I do agree with his stance that if he was going to move Vazquez he would need to receive a franchise altering return. The difference between him moving Cole and moving Vazquez is that with Cole, he was coming off of a season where he posted a career high ERA, career high HR total and a career high walk total. Cole only had 2 years of control left as well and he made it known that he was intending to go the FA route. NH and the league knew that he had to move Cole and that was his best chance to get the most for him. All that factored in, the return was never going to be elite. With Vazquez, he his pitching at an elite leval and has been for now his 3rd year in a row. He is signed at a huge value discount for over 4 more years. That is an extremely high value for an elite relief pitcher. With that type of value you should demand a huge franchise altering return if you are to move him. At that value it is better to keep him and not take just an ok return.
Although I would have taken May + Ruiz + lesser 3rd piece, I would still prefer Lux at 2B because he has a much higher ceiling than our other middle IFs. You can always trade Tucker for a pitcher or catcher and move Frazier to 4th OF / backup 2B.
If the Pirates think Lux is an elite talent, you acquire him and deal with the other roster issues later.
I agree with you. And I like Peters as the 3rd pc to go with Ruiz and May. Maybe
They had to have May. They need SP bad. Not sure Goslin is as good. And I don’t understand the Dodgers hard line on May. From what I read about him he has a middle
rotation outlook. He is not as good as Keller.
MLB GMs are used to fleecing the Pirates. The Dodger tried the same approach.
Elite talent is a need for the Bucs, a definition which may describe Lux at some point, but will never be applied to any of the infielders currently on the Bucs’ roster.
Lux is probably the hottest name outside of the top 10 right now. I think he’ll be a top 5 guy in a year (if he doesn’t get excluded bc of promotion and too many MLB ABs during the stretch run). I was hoping the Mets could get him as part of a Diaz+ deal, but it would have been a big ask. Now he is likely really untouchable bc I don’t see his stock dropping.
Nobody commenting on Aberdeen101’s post is wrong. Lux is a super-stud that would rank number 1 on almost every teams’ prospect ranking. Likewise, Ruiz and May would also be the Pirates’ number 1 and 2 ranked prospects and fill needs. You really can’t go wrong with a package that contains any 2 of them plus the throw-in players.
Lux would the next Cutch-esq player the Pirates have really missed. I like Newman a lot but he’s nothing like Lux with the bat. The others mentioned…not MLB ready yet.
Truth be told I’m just glad NH stood firm. I half (or more) expected a deal that centered around Gonsolin and a slew of 15-30 ranked players.
WELL DONE NH!!!!
May is not a top 10 RH pitcher which Keller is. And I think Hayes is higher ranked than Ruiz. And Cruz might be better than Ruiz and May.
Dude, stick to your day job cause you know nothing about baseball
@thepghkid Yo, which dude do you speak of??
I am surprised they didnt try harder for a bullpen arm. Even Braves outbid them for Shane Greene.
I heard Friedman do an interview on the radio yesterday. He didn’t mention any specific players but said that some of their targets were traded to other teams for packages they felt were worth less than what they offered.
It’s possible either side’s valuation is off. But we don’t know what was offered and how things unfolded behind the scenes. Sure sounded like they tried to get more pieces.
given Greene’s return, every contender should have been in in him. i mean, Wentz is good and all but he has his warts.
This pen issue is an ongoing theme that Friedman failed to address. You simply cannot go into post season with this bunch who are arguably weaker given the decline in Jansen’s performance. Prospects are great, but given that the 40 man roster blocks promotions for example, why not trade Ruiz when you have Will Smith as your new every day catcher? This is mind boggling and will cost the Dodgers AGAIN when they lose in the playoffs, again. Friedman’s arrogance is deafening.
It was always the weak link and it is definitely weaker this year. The elephant in the room is finances. This is the controlling factor. Ownership has made it clear that they will never pay a CBT, whether a championship is on the line or not. That’s why they let Watson sign elsewhere, for instance. Friedman is forever patting himself on the back for a job well-done, even when he’s done nothing, and at the same time, Kasten is patting him on the head for fielding a team good enough to fill seats so he can keep raising those ticket prices. If he gets that, who cares about winning any stinking World Series? Where’s the money in that? Only the fans care about that stuff anyway. The approach taken by Friedman is wonderful for the Dodgers Inc. bottom line. But for fans, it sucks. Big time.
The fact that you believe ownership and front office don’t care about winning, goes to show how completely skewed and one eyed you are.
You’re bitter to the point where people don’t even want to associate with you as a fan. It’s toxic.
Unless his name is Vazquez trading Ruiz for a relief pitcher is extremely dumb. Good thing Friedman is in charge and has way more common sense than you. NONE of the bullpen pieces traded moved the needle. Not Shane Greene, Sergio Romo, Chris Martin, Hunter Strickland, Daniel Hudson, Roenis Elias ect. Those are all just more of the same
Seems to me his name actually is Vasquez.
@Blueskyla not sure if your a troll or just uneducated but….during friedmans time the dodgers have been consistently one of the best teams in baseball top to bottom. From making moves at deadline the last 2 years to not doing much this year they make the calculated measurements to ensure success and longevity.
Giving up lux and may for rivero is a horrid deal. The only time you trade those guys is for someone like thor or degrom. Relief pitching historically is iffy and volatile when trying to calculate value as production (see kenley jensen production which can nose dive at any point). Position players hold more value as every day production has increasing more value than a relief pitcher (see in 3/4 of season bellinger has more value than rivero has had his whole career). They think lux has that same type of ceiling they also have a hole at second base and in a couple years at 3rd when turners deal is up. Forcing a deal that will cause more issues especially a team worried about the cap keeping low cost prospects makes sense.
Dodgers have enough arms and need to move maeda and stripling to bullpen permanently. Rolling with ryu, kershaw, buehler, urias or hill is a great rotation.
But, his name WAS Rivero. He changed it. Anyone can do that.
Dovydos Vazquez for Ruiz?
Baloney .We all know what Friedman has done, and we also know what he hasn’t done if we care to look at the entire scorecard, not just the part that confirms our biases. Not to forget, he has a helluva lot of money behind him. A scouting and farm system that had been starved by two previous ownerships was revived, as well it should have been. That’s where the sustainability comes from ultimately (and also from a willingness to sign key free agents).
But the game for the fans at least is not about sustainability, it’s also about winning. A fan base that’s been denied for 31 years but has stuck with their team throughout deserves a win. Maybe you don’t but that’s why most of us show up. If this means sacrificing some of the future, then so be it, because most fans at least understand that sustainability is mainly about sustaining profits and not about winning.
We can speculate all day long about deals that didn’t happen. Were the Pirates really demanding Lux? Maybe. Or maybe not. All we can say is, it’s the deal that didn’t happen, and they had no Plan B to fix a problem that everybody his grandmother knows is the one that could sink the Dodgers postseason for the third year in a row. But to say that giving up a top prospect or two for a much better chance at ending the championship drought is automatically a bad choice, well, that is a serious case of not getting it.
And there you have your baseball education.
They could have went for Giles, stuck him on the IL for a couple weeks then have him go down the stretch. Total risk but that’s the position the Dodgers are in; all in for October whatever it takes.
And because he’s on the shelf, the asking price may have been more reasonable, but unknown as to true extent of injury. Anyway like his pen, Friedman blows it again.
Their only saving grace would be to find a prospect (May) gets white hot out of the bullpen and becomes the young bullet that gives the team a lift. Similar to 2002 Francisco Rodriguez or 2008 David Price. I’m not sure if that is May or someone else.
what a great pair of articles in a row. what an exciting year, maybe they should keep the deadline like this.
Who would you trade in the system considering Lux is blowing up AAA and is close to a promotion, May is going up there now, Smith is already up there, and Ruiz projects better than Smith?
Friedman waa right to hold onto each of them, even if Kiebert and Smith in the same system is redundant. that being said, there are plenty of guys who went for dirt cheap and the LAD system is deeper then its top 5.
Dodgers.. Zaidi would have been able to get it done.
He did for SF
Zaidi got it done alright. Getting the Giants stuck in the middle. He went halfway with selling and buying which says it all. When the hot streak dies, Bumgarner and Smith hit free agency the Giants will be set back even farther
Hilarious reading 2 articles from the 2 richest teams in MLB (LAD, NYY) in total budget + prospects and why they did little to nothing to help their chances via trades come the Deadline. Good to see the media still holding them accountable.
Great hot take! As hot takes tend to go, lacking much more than superficial analysis. I would surmise that you tweeted that.
No, my morning tweet was focused on Jed and how he picked an Auburn girl over a Bama Bachelorette, but thanks for the support!
That’s hilarious, if you’re serious or not.
Welcome to the new MLB. Smart GMs are valuing control and stats/metrics more than the old model of spending on FAs. Tampa has been doing it for years, but it’s a copycat league.
Between this shift to hording young talent and the QO system that is still broken, the Players Union will have their hands full trying to negotiate the next collective bargaining agreement. The Union needs to win the media and fans or they could get put over a barrel by the owners.
Smart is following a pretty obvious recipe for success.
The status quo for a title is building a core, filling in holes with FA in the offseason, evaluating team and filling in further holes at the trade deadline.
The last step is done by leveraging future talent for current production. It will never be “wise” from a value standpoint, but it will likely increase your odds of a World Series.
The Dodgers and Yankees had a huge opportunity to put a dagger in the people chasing them, and instead, they watched as those teams all got better.
I don’t find that very smart.
Well stated, mrnatewalter.
I read that Preller offered “a package” for Lux, which included Kirby Yates. Unreal that this trade didn’t happen. Yes, Lux has been on fire for 18 games in the PCL launch pad league with the “new” MLB baseballs being used. Lux has over 60 errors in how many games? He’s a second baseman, not the second coming, for gawds sake. Dodgers would of had their first World Series ring in 30 years if they had traded for Brad Hand 2 years ago…maybe even 2 rings. You would think that having played in and lost in back to back Series, that the Dodgers GM would actually want to win one.
Its unreal the Dodgers did not want to give SD another blue chip prospect lol. As soon as the leauge wakes up and stops swinging at Yates splitter he will go back to what he was before the Padres. The idea of trading Lux for a relief pitcher is dumb. Very dumb
Dodgers misplayed the market.
Dodgers are very similar to the Astros in terms of lineup. Very strong, younger guys, top to bottom. They need help in the pen and Vasquez makes a lot of sense. I don’t understand why you can’t give up a top organizational prospect for him. Especially considering the control and team friendly deal he’s on. I don’t know how an ownership group can watch back to back World Series losses on their own field take place. If it turns out to be a third year in a row, a conversation is to be had. You shouldn’t have a top payroll, top farm and consecutive division titles and come up short year after year. But there is a reason they play the games! Year isn’t over and the Astros haven’t won anything in 2019 (other than the trade deadline headlines).
I just don’t see how they can rely on Jensen when it matters. He is a rollercoaster ride….when what you really want is a boring Dumbo Tea Cup ride in the 9th….calm and reliable.
I disagree to an extent. Friedman outbid everyone to get Machado last year, plus a couple other moves. It didn’t equate to a championship, but it wasn’t because the FO sat on their hands. The Indians outbid everyone to get the crown jewel of relievers (Brad Hand) who was irrelevant and ineffective in the playoffs. 2017 the Dodgers were up in the series 1-0 and handed the ball to their closer with the lead in game 2 that they blew (not the GM’s fault). Game 5 (series 2-2) the Dodgers gave their ace and future Hall of Famer Kershaw not one, but two different leads of 3 runs or more and he couldn’t hold it…again not the GM;s fault. Game 7 they go 1-13 with RISP. So much goes into winning a WS.
I guess if you acquired the biggest name even if you don’t need him all while ignoring your glaring need you can still say you are doing something. But…
Also replying below, just FTR, Vazquez has two team options, so he’s controllable through 2023, actually. That is FIVE playoff runs LA could have had. Five.
Exactly. They won’t give up a player who hasn’t even appeared in a Dodger uniform to nail down a big loose end on a first place team, the only one that could easily kill their postseason chances again this year. Even more galling, it isn’t as if Vasquez would have been a rental. He’d have come with three more years of team control. So what’s the FO plan for closing after this year? Is it the same plan they are going with this year, which is trot Jansen out there and pray he doesn’t immolate? The failure to get Vasquez isn’t just about this year, it’s also about the next one or two after that, at least.
Bigger headline will be when Dodgers don’t even get back to World Series Game because of lack of bullpen, or overusing Jansen…Cubs @ Astros. Astros sweep.
I don’t see ANY Astros overpay here, any more than the Cole deal.
1. IF Greinke stays healthy and pitches well, then, through 2020, Astros win more games, regular and post-season, than they would have with those four guys, for sure.
2. Seth Beer would never have had much of a role here, or added wins except perhaps as a DH, but we look very good at 1B/DH for the next few years.
3. Martin might be great, someday, but he’s on the shelf for both seasons, pretty much.
4. Bukauskas – who knows? Strike zone issues, so far.
5. Rojas might be a Marwin or Diaz, or maybe not. Pretty versatile, so he might have been useful next year.
6. Looks like a pure win/win for both teams.
7. Not sure how the money impacts Astros decisions upcoming, but
8. I do not predict or second-guess Luhnow. Just enjoy his work!
I don’t think it’s an overpay in the “Greinke isn’t worth it sense,” but I think it’s definitely an overpay in the way FO’s try to value assets. Greinke is basically making what he’s worth in terms of dollars (maybe a slight overpay?). Even with the D’Backs eating some salary, Houston is paying $53 million for 2 years and 2 months of him…would he get more than than on the FA market? So they’re paying him near-market salary and also had to spend 3 of their top 5 prospects and a 4th guy? That’s an overpay.
Still a good move for the Astros. As a Cards fan, Goldschmidt is an overpay – they’re paying him market salary and had to give up prospects to boot. Still worth it IMO (his struggles this season notwithstanding).
You have to overpay to get premium MLB-proven talent. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad decision, though.
but see, these are the Astros. We don’t, generally, have room for all these people, and we’re winning 100 games a year without them.
It’s not an overpay. I doubt you’ve looked into the “3 of their top 5 prospects” and the 4th guy is a 25 year old utility guy who has yet to make his ML debut… Astros just extended Verlander the next two seasons at $33MM per year and will be paying Grienke $21.5MM over the same two seasons. Comparable based on recent performance and age… not an overpay in the least. After Lunhow’s previous trades for Cole and JV, I would imagine people would give him the benefit of the doubt on his trades.
If Jeff Bezos spends $500 on a dozen eggs, he’s overpaying for the eggs whether the $500 means anything to him or not.
What a ludicrous response. I hope you’re joking.
The bottom line is, we got something of, probable, GREAT value to us, in exchange for something of, probable, little value to us.
We have TOO MANY quality players, with no place to play them. OUR eggs do not make us better, but AZ needs them to make THEM better. THEIR egg makes us better.
Not rocket science.
But what if he is on an island and those eggs mean the difference in surviving or not did he overpay then?
On an island, eggs matter less than the chickens that lay them. THAT chicken is Luhnow, who will lay more eggs tomorrow. Meanwhile, goose just laid a golden one, that sparkles and shines in the island sun.
I’m not disagreeing with that. Astros have the resources and are in a position where overpaying makes sense. There’s a good chance the D’Backs weren’t going to trade Greinke UNLESS they got more than he’s worth, and the Astros were in a position to do just that. Good move for the ‘Stros, good move for Arizona.
Whether the deal is “good” or not isn’t just a reflection of the market-value of the assets exchanged, is what I’m saying. If the Marlins and the Astros make the same deal for Greinke, it’s a good move for Houston and a dumb move for Miami. Characterizing the trade as an “overpayment” isn’t an indictment of Luhnow. He 100% did the right thing.
Hey let’s hang onto to every prospect so in 3 years we can still not have won a title and that “ Can’t Miss” prospect is still playing in AAA
Friedman has made the Dodgers perennial WS contenders by planning ahead but at some point you gotta sacrifice the future a little to help the present. For all the success they’ve had the past several years they still haven’t won a chip in over 30 years and that fan base is getting impatient
Their prospects are blocked by developing a very good every day line up with deep back up options making your minor league players assets. For example, what to do with Ruiz now that Smith is everyday catcher? Better to trade Ruiz for a solid pen arm.
Again with Ruiz for a pen arm. That doesn’t happen unless its for Vazquez 1 for 1. You dont trade a top tier catching prospect for a dang bullpen pitcher. You just dont
Indians did it for Brad Hand. Cubs also did it (Torres/shortstop) for 2 months of Chapman. So it’s done all the time. And guess why? Because when you are hat close to winning a WS, you get it done. Doyers ownership/gm just isn’t interested in a ring just a playoff team that sells tickets is apparently enough
Getting impatient? Many of us are wondering whether we can live long enough to see another championship in LA. With this bunch running the team it will have to be luck, not intention.
I feel like Friedman and Zaidi absolutely killed the restocking the farm and making smart trades to get under the cap but for some reason they seem gunshy when it comes to making the big splash to put them over the top.
From the looks of it, I might theorize that Zaidi had more to do with the current roster of the Dodgers than Friedman.
Just a theory.
We’ve had this conversation or one very much like it for the past three years. The answer is always the same: it’s about the money. Ownership’s goal is to field teams good enough to fill the seats and continue to raise ticket prices. If they can do that without winning a World Series, then that works perfectly for ownership. Tending to the prospect pipeline and staying under the CBT optimizes profits. If any fan still thinks ownership has the same goals for this team that they do, well, please share some of what you are smoking.
As a pirates fan, it is fascinating to hear Dodger fans complain about the team’s ownership being unwilling to spend the money or do what it takes to win a title. I am not being critical or questioning the merits of your statements. It just seems that no matter what teams do, the fans want them to do a little (or in my case a lot) more. Anyway I share your frustration that a trade could not be made for Vazquez to benefit both teams.
Sure some fans who get a pony are bound to ask why it didn’t come with a saddle. But I don’t think that’s what is going on here. I feel for fans in small markets. They get a raw deal because of the way revenue is structured in baseball. But the Dodgers are not a small market team. They consistently draw more fans than any team in the sport, and not just by a little. We suffered through two very bad ownerships who stripped the team of resources and exploited fan loyalties. The new owners have reinvested in the team and the stadium, as well they should. My gratitude has limits because this was long overdue, and also in part because I and the rest of the fans are paying for it, and more and more every year. A lot more. The issue is this ownership see a 90% effort as being enough, because it keep us coming. Well, it just isn’t, because less than 100% hasn’t added a year to the run that ends in 1988, and it probably won’t.
Gmen? I like going to the WW. This stat saying Dodgers best in MLB since 2013. I like this bunch. For years we, Dodgers, may be going to the WW. This is fun being a Dodger fan. Dang on brah!
GMs typically say they don’t worry about the deals associated with other teams. I can’t help but think that if the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox knew in advance about the Astros’ moves, they may have been more aggressive.
NO ONE, EVER, seems to have any idea what the Astros are up to. Until it happens.
Red Sox weren’t making any moves regardless what other teams did. They are up against the 246 million and they weren’t going over that two years in a row. DD was under the mandate to not go over that even though he says he wasn’t. If the Red Sox were in first and looked like they were going to make it back to back then I think they would of done not for a team on the outside looking in at the playoffs makes no sense.
The Dodgers have more incentive to trade prospects and win now than any other team in baseball. They’ve lost two straight World Series. No prospect is a sure thing, and they absolutely needed to significantly upgrade the bullpen. You’re not running the Rays anymore. This was the time to go for it
Yup. And where’s the Friedman fan club now? Seems they’ve taken the day off.
I haven’t taken the day off. While I was wrong about the final acquisition made im not close to throwing the white flag and conceding the WS to the Astros like most of the people are. They did at least get a left on left guy which was a need. Kolarek is not flashy but his splits vs the left side are very good. If May and Gonsolin live up to the hype their pen will be fine come playoff time.
No while flags, just another face-palm moment. The need was great and obvious, the response was almost nothing. The Dodgers inaction is the talk of baseball today, almost as much as the bold move made by the Astros, and not for no reason.
Nope, Blue Sky. The Friedman fan club is still here. Just waiting for your hatred of Friedman to run out of steam.
Nothing to add, as usual.
Go Dodgers!
The Valley girlz have no clue……stupid f#cks
Guess the Dodgers are cool with being runner ups for a third straight year.
I give both the Dodgers and the Yankees “F” Grades for the Trade Deadline lack of deals.
Two Teams, Two Coasts…Similar Approaches…
Neither Teams’ GM has the nerve to “go all in” for a World Series Championship.
Dodgers last title was in the 1980’s with La sorda and Gibson.
Yankees 10-11 years with no World Series Championship.
Astros are now the FAR SUPERIOR TEAM
and FAVORED to WIN ANOTHER WS CHAMPIONSHIP.
(And, I am not an Astros fan except I can appreciate how good their team really is…
What people need to notice. This team different from years past. They don’t have Puig who good but a mess if not control. They have the depth in the minor to back them. Yes getting a trade would be huge. But they are looking at the future not just the now. Quick fix are nice but don’t always pan out.
I believe the Dodgers made a mistake in not updating that bullpen. While they are very talented they have not won the big games yet. The window only remains open so long best to win now while it’s open.
Powerful insight
Relief pitchers are usually kind of iffy – great with one team, mediocre with another. Unhittable one year, worthless the next. It would have been a huge mistake to give up a player like Lux for a relief pitcher.
Yeah look at Joe Kelly with the Red Sox vs Dodgers.. night and day difference
No Kelly struggled with the Red Sox too during 2018. There was a time during 2018 season that Cora would only use him in really low leverage situations. He started 2018 real well then finished 2018 real well. In between not so much. Vasquez has been elite for a while probably the best in baseball sometimes you have to push your chips in to win.
Not really. Kelly had 1 good year with Boston and that was pretty much it. Not like he was lights out for Boston and then got ugly his first year to a new team. Vazquez had very good finish the year he was traded to Pittsburgh then elite the next 3 seasons counting this one. Not an up and down type guy like a Joe Kelly
1988 Dodgers came away from deadline with JOHN TUDOR. I wonder how that worked out.
The 1988 Dodgers were about as likely to win the World Series as the 1969 Mets. Hoping to get lucky is only a good plan in Las Vegas.
At least the Dodgers/Astros,etc… GM’s know what direction their headed in. The Pirates front office has runs its course and its time for a change. There’s not much that can be done about Nutting doing nutting, but the front office can be changed. Neal Huntington overall doesn’t have a clue on what he’s doing. He’s obviously delusional doesn’t have a rational plan for the Pirates current and long term. With the owner not wanting to spend money due to various reasons, the team needs to be able to develop prospects which Neill and goons have mostly failed to do.. He believes they can complete now. What do they have they can make them now or even next year? They were somewhat competing this year in the NL Central, but did nothing to try to improve to stay in contention, address injuries, etc… The few prospects that have been developed have been traded, most of them have been busts in the MLB or minors, and have a few now that may have a decent career. But at the rate they develop prospects, it will take 250 years to field a decent team. The Pirates owner and front office is clueless on how to run a team. Without a sense of direction, the team will continue to be run into the ground.
As long as Friedman is with the dodgers they will never when it. I love the dodgers and I hope Dustin may is our answer to our bullpen problem. But kenley Jansen is the one I’m very worried about. They needed a very big arm in that pen and it will hurt them in the end.
All that money and u can’t trade lux for Felipe. I mean u guys would be the fav with ur team. Great team but glaring weakness in the pen and u just know it’s coming. The second guessing. Why would he not do that. 4 more years u could have had him for. The best closer and with all ur win chances u would have used the heck out of him. Made all the sense and he had to be smarter than everyone else.
As long as Friedman is with the dodgers they will never when it. I hope Dustin may is our answer to our bullpen problem. But kenley Jansen is the one I’m very worried about. They needed a very big arm in that pen. It’s going to hurt them in the end.
From what was heard the top 4 were off the table. They were offering 5/10. And 2 15/20. That’s a joke for what we were giving up. Even May was off the table. Hope the dodgers lose in 9th inning or 8th with May on the mound. Ask he cubs if their happy with trading for Chapman and giving up one of the best young players in the game to the Yankees. Dodgers made a mistake. U could have had best closet in the game instead I have may. Rookie going into the playoffs cause ur gm wanted to win the trade. Who c area even if u gave up lux. Ur payroll is a joke just but a second baseman. I mean u kidden me.
The dodgers did actually trade for Chapman the year that the Cubs won WS. But dodgers negated the trade after domestic violence charges against Chapman. The Cubs still traded for Chapman and yes they won the series, but lowered their standards. Also, Chapman blew a save in game 7 of WS and in game 6 of NLCS, but Cubs still found ways to win.
You can’t plausibly claim to have been “aggressive” in pursuing players when you have the system & number of quality you players LA has and you don’t end up getting anybody of note, not even your top target. Stop it. You weren’t aggressive. You over-protected the future, and are trying to gaslight your fans because you’re embarrassed & hope your failure won’t get you run out of town. The Dodgers haven’t won a WS in 30 years, and acting like Gavin Lux is Trout & you’re 15 games out of the 2nd WC is simply not doing your job as a GM.
The gm would be great if he were with the pirates. But he is with a club with one of biggest payrolls in baseball.
The Dodgers haven’t had a GM since Zaidi moved on but I’m not sure the team really had one when he was still in LA. They may never have another one again the way things are going.
Anyway welcome to the world is Friedman-speak. Every time he opens his mouth it is made clear that his feelings for the fans verges on contempt. Crosses the line sometimes too. Any doubts, see what came down after the most recent elimination game.
Friedman’s job is keeping ownership happy with the amount of money they’re making, it is not winning championships for the fans. So long as they are making the largest possible pile Friedman’s job is secure. He never shows his face in Dodger Stadium anyway. Nobody in ownership or management does.
Best case scenario is….
May and or Gonsolin pitch very well going into post season, that way our playoff pitching roster would be:
Ryu
Kershaw
Buehler
Hill
May or Gonsolin
Baez
Kolarek
Urias
Maeda
Kelly
Jansen
I don’t believe Dodgers would include both rookies, May and Gonsolin, on post season roster. Unless of course someone listed above gets hurt.
Good point. The bullpen can still be decent for playoffs, if one of the young guys step up.
Although I understand not giving up a package like Ruiz and May for Vazquez, I still think other relievers should have been acquired like: Greene, Colume, Diekman, or Lugo to add more options for playoffs. Friedman may not be as aggressive as he should be in this position, but overall he is a very good GM.
I understand from several sources the Pirates would not come off Gavin Lux as well. Losing Lux and May just when they are ready to be called up from my perspective isnt worth it for a guy who has only pitched 43 innings.
I think once Jansen rights his course, Kelly is pitching better, Urias and Maeda have been solid in the pen and this Kolarek kid is tough on lefties. I omitted Baez for a reason….he always scares me. I’m very happy we didn’t make this trade losing those two future stars.
Vasquez has pitched over 300 innings of high-quality work in the majors. We don’t really know who the Pirates were demanding for him but we do know that his track record and four more years of team control are the factors that made him worth at least one top-drawer prospect. May, Lux, and any other we could mention will have about the same number of years of team control once they are promoted. So it isn’t difficult to see the basic outlines of a trade that should have happened.
More or less though Stripling could be in that mix and Hill potentially out of it. The problem here is most of the starters being used as relievers will work middle innings or as long men. Under any scenario, the back end is a huge question mark.
I know Jansen has struggled a bit with his cutter or slider, whatever, but if you remove his two meltdown games, his ERA would be 2.16. Just saying, I don’t think I should disrespect him and not say he is a solid 9th inning man. Like Vasquez, his resume speaks for itself.
Now, what about the 8th inning? I think the combination of Kelly/Urias is good enough. I know Kelly got off to a horrible start but clearly he has been pitching much better of late.
I won’t even include Maeda and Gonsolin YET. But I hope we can see how the latter two do in this role as the year winds down. Who knows? Maybe we will have two gems in them as well. We all saw what Gonsolin did recently. (Mouth watering). As you can see, I am very optimistic our bullpen won’t be the problem. Clutch hitting and SP will be even more important. Let’s get a 3-2 lead heading into the 8th inning first.
It’s those one-run leads going into the 8th that are so gut-wrenching now. and will be even more so in playoff games. So many meltdowns and it isn’t just one or two, everybody in that pen has at least a couple to their “credit.” Maeda has proven his ability to pitch very well out of the pen so I think he gets that role again, almost without a doubt.
Jansen’s cutter doesn’t cut much anymore and his velocity is down but the real culprit is a loss of control. With his inability to blow the cutter past hitters he’s been trying to nibble more around the edges and so far that isn’t really working. He’s using the slider a lot more but he doesn’t dare leave it in the strike zone. The bottom line is he’s no longer the guy who can put out fires reliably and using him for 4+ out saves especially on consecutive days is just not in the program any longer. This means the supporting cast has to be better than it has been. Maybe one of the kids will step up but I sure would prefer not to be hoping for a miracle.
Speaking of which I will be at the stadium tonight for May’s debut. That will be interesting no matter how it turns out.
Hey, I’m jealous! I am so pumped for tonight’s game to see how May looks. Can’t wait to see Lux in a few weeks as well.
I couldn’t help but notice you did not even mention the guy who crushed us last year in the WS…..Mr Kelly. I guess he has to show you a little more than what he did last night (hitless 8th inning) to win you over. For the amount of money we are paying him, here’s hoping.
Have fun tonight! Bring home another W.
If you’re watching on TV you might be getting the better look.
Trying not to think too much about Kelly. Maybe he will do his Jekyll-Hyde thing for us the way he did for Boston. Just not counting on it.
Thanks… no matter how it turns out we get fireworks!