Tuesday brought the latest ignominious development of 2019 for Pittsburgh, a team that has gone from playoff hopeful to laughingstock in the span of a couple months. The Pirates announced that reliever Kyle Crick underwent season-ending surgery for an injury to his right index finger, which came as a result of a fight with teammate and fellow late-game hurler Felipe Vazquez. While it’s unclear how the fight began or who was truly at fault, it doesn’t really matter – the bottom line is that it’s no way for a pair of teammates to act toward one another.
Unfortunately for the Pirates, the Crick-Vazquez dust-up wasn’t the first instance of in-fighting for the club this year. There have been multiple examples in which members of the organization haven’t been able to coexist. Crick, Vazquez and fellow reliever Keone Kela have been among the sources of conflict. Vazquez and Kela each drew interest leading up to the July 31 deadline, but general manager Neal Huntington didn’t move either (more understandable in the case of Vazquez than Kela, as the former’s an elite closer).
Speaking of Huntington, the roster he has built is well on its way to a fourth straight season without a playoff berth. The Pirates were in the NL wild-card race when the second half of the season commenced, even though they were an unimpressive 43-46 at the time. They’ve gone an abysmal 20-36 since then and now own a 63-82 record that’s good for the eighth-worst mark in baseball. That’s not all Huntington’s fault – it would help if owner Bob Nutting would actually spend some money – but he and-or manager Clint Hurdle could nonetheless be in danger of losing their jobs in the wake of what has turned into an awful season.
While Huntington and Hurdle helped the Pirates to three straight playoff berths from 2013-15, the partnership’s on its way to its third sub-.500 season out of four since then. Between the lack of on-field results in recent years and the behind-the-scenes issues the Pirates have endured this season, perhaps Nutting will decide to move on from one or both of the Huntington-Hurdle tandem when the campaign concludes. Huntington has been in place since 2007, and Hurdle has been at the helm dating back to 2011, but it could be time for a regime change in Pittsburgh. What do you think?
(Poll link for app users)
My answer is not in this poll. Instead what about if the owner sells the team.
wow harsh. care to back up your claims?
Nutting is a terrible owner. Just research him a little and you’ll see that all he cares about is profiting at least $25 million each yr. It’s not hard to find that info. It’s a disgrace and that’s all he cares about.
i was refering to the response to the original comment that was deleted.
But but, Nutting said payroll is by and large not controllable and the team needs to focus on things that are controllable.
They don’t call him Bottom Line Bob for Nutting!
They should join the international league since the are a minor league nutting got to go
Glasnow, Baz, and Meadows for Archer. Need some accountability for that.
That was a truly awful deal, but their ridiculously cheap ways are the main issue. All teams miss on deals. Although that was a historically bad deal.
One bad trade over 12 seasons as GM. He brought in AJ Burnett, Charlie Morton, Joel Hantahan, Mark Melancon, Jason Grilli, and Francisco Liriano for literally peanuts on the dollar.
The Pirates did seem to hit on a lot of guys 4 or so years ago. But lately they’ve been a hot mess in about everything imaginable.
I don’t see an option for Nutting selling the team to someone who invests into it.
I chose fire Hurdle but now that I think about it, I should’ve said fire both.
The terrible owner is too cheap to pay anyone to go away. That’s the issue, Nutting.
Fire everyone. Literally everyone (janitors, fan in section 102 seat B7, the guy who makes the hot dogs, the groundskeeper with that rake thing..everyone) except the accountant.
The main guy that needs fired is Nutting, but he’s an owner. A truly awful owner.
At least one of these is impossible—PNC Park does not have a 102 section. You
I said fire both. Hurdle obviously, Huntington deserves more consideration but ultimately he’s accountable too.
I think the team needs sold and investigated. How can MLB and MLBPA be satisfied by a organization paying just 70 million for its roster? That is 25 guys and roughly 3 million a piece. Not to mention the money the Pirates get from the league in revenue sharing. Just horrible and a disgrace to the game.
No the owner is a felon. The State of PA needs to investigate him. He needs to be in prison
There are articles all over the place that state and show all Nutting is concerned with is profiting at least $25 million a year. Other than that he doesn’t care what happens. It’s a disgrace.
How many times are you gonna make the same comment? 1,027?
Probably 25 million times
The MLBPA is, in fact, pursuing a grievance against the Pirates for failing to invest their revenue sharing proceeds in the team.
*pursued. It went nowhere. Speak facts next time, jerky.
Unless Nutting is going to put real money into payroll, this team will continue to languish. Sure, they’ll have opportunities to draft highly regarded players, but unless each of those players give big future discounts on contracts, they’ll be out the door sooner than later.
What a shame too. It’s a beautiful park with a great skyline and fans that want to support them.
What about the players involved in the fracus? It can’t be a good idea to keep both of them can it? Perhaps another poll. In any event keeping Hurdle but firing Huntington can’t even really be an option can it? But yeah they should probably both be gone. And Nutting should spend some cash but that is already expounded upon ad nauseam.
The players are idiots for sure, but most players are idiots in some way. Good leadership doesn’t allow the countless issues they’ve had though. That’s the issue.
Clint, to be fair, has very infrequently had a good team to manage. that being said, would probably do to have a fresh face at manager too. can ’em both
The owner will still be a felon no matter who the GM and Manager are
Such an ugly, gross mismanagement of a team. Force the owner to sell the team, fire everybody, go get Chaim Bloom from TB and let him rebuild. If that was my team, I’d welcome this plan over whatever it is they’re doing currently.
The owner belongs in prison
Chaim Bloom seems perfect for this job.
They could’ve done the team and society a favor and save their energy to kick Bob Nutting’s head in
Huntington has a paltry payroll and a cold weather non-diverse city that no one wants to live in to try to sell to free agents on. His job isn’t easy.
Hurdle needs to go.
Everybody hates the phrase, but sometimes you make a change just to make a change. An ESPN guy said today that interest in Pittsburgh for the Pirates is “less than zero”, which is really lousy considering the team’s admirable history.
Sure, ownership is most of the problem (it usually is), but you can’t fire the owner. Firing the GM and manager will at least keep them in the papers this winter.
They’ve had many opportunities in recent years to sell. Nutting is awful at being an MLB owner and is only concerned with making money, and not winning.
“Less than zero” is categorically false(not to mention impossible lol). Remember, 20 years of losing was stopped and with that came 2.5 M in attendance. TV audience is strong as well.
Fire Huntington. Nutting won’t pay both to not work and perhaps not even one. GM is more to blame but it’s close.
No, I’m pretty sure “less than zero” accurate. I was a partial season ticket holder for 17 years (even through the terrible losing teams of the mid 2000’s) . I haven’t been to a game all year. I went to one game last year… the first game Cutch was back with SF. I don’t watch or listen to them at all. The most interest I had this year was when I heard they were like 3-21 after the all-star game because I wanted to see how badly they would fall. My boss was also a 15 year partial season ticket holder. Hasn’t been to a game since 2017. Our office secretary used to watch every game on TV. Does not bother at all this season. Let’s face it, this ownership, the horrible management, and the clueless Hurdle have forced people away in herds after 2016. They can’t draft, they can’t trade, they only sign dumpster diving free agents. They map “off days” during spring training, and do stupid things like give Cutch a day off in a big series against the Cubs in August because “that’s what Hurdle mapped in spring training”. Marte and Vazquez are likely gone in the offseason. The biggest joke was the kool-ade drinkers that thought the Pirates had the best pitching staff in baseball before this season. Are you kidding me?? Have they never heard of the Nationals, Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, etc etc?? If you think Archer is an ace and Trevor Williams is one because he had 3 good months in his career, not to mention Jordan Lyles was the #5 (!!). All the “future all stars” we were told the Pirates had stiockpiled in the minors have all been traded or were busts (or both). Now they have about no future prospects, no real veteran’s, and no chance to sign anyone as long as Nutting is the owner. So why would I support this trash fire? I make the drive to Progressive Field if I want to see real baseball a few times a year.
Just an aside, it’s not even all about the cheapskate ownership, because teams like the Ray and A’s have sustained winning teams on equally bad budgets. The Indians and Twins have proven you can spend on legit free agents in similar markets. So it’s equally on mismanagement and misjudging of talent by Huntingdon. I mean, they signed LONNIE CHISELHAL in the offseason as their big free agent. Who didn’t see that being a disaster?
I appreciate your personal response and also that, anecdotally, others have done the same. However, my points stand. When the Bucs “got good” attendance soared. TV ratings are much, much higher than the Pirates divisional standing.
Pirates have many, many problems, several of which you’ve outlined. Interest in the team when performing even close to well is not one of them.
This would be a much better situation if the previous owner had just sold to Mark Cuban instead of Nutting. Or if Nutting had sold to Mario Lemieux and Robert Tull when they offered to buy. Any scenario in which Nutting isn’t the owner honestly looks more optimistic than the team does right now. Because this is borderline pathetic at this point.
Preach fluffybunny!
Jeez, calm down. You want him dead? Might be a bit of an overreaction?
The Pirate owner is truly awful and needs to sell the team. Doesn’t need to die or anything just sell the team to an owner whose motivated for more than profiting millions every year.
Give it a rest, Francis. Enough with your stupid commentary. Its bush league.
“Time for changes in Pittsburgh?” That’s a joke right? Obviously it was time a long time ago for changes. The owner is more concerned with pocketing him annual $25 million profit than winning though. That’s the issue
How many times are you gonna repeat the same comment? We get it. Move on.
Many more times. I’ll make sure to cc you in when I do.
Gotta burn the whole thing to the ground, keep anyone under 27 but otherwise start over and get rid of EVERYONE and tank for 2-3 years.
Should they? Yes. Will they? Probably not.
I think the real problem is Nutting and the abysmal budget. However, the owner is the owner and the budget is the budget. If he’s not going to sell, then you need a staff that can make the most of the money that is available. I think Huntington has done a decent job overall (the Archer trade notwithstanding) but he’s not getting over the hump.
As far as Hurdle, whenever a GM is fired I think the new GM should be able to bring in his own field staff, so I picked “both” but really the option I want is “fire the GM and let the new guy decide what to do with the coaching staff.”
Thing is as long as bob nutting is the owner and the budget is the way it is the Pirates will always be in a big disadvantage.
Would be funny to see Dombrowski go to Pittsburgh…
This would be the best topsy turvy world version, hire DD, and sign Rendon and when people are flabbergasted Nutting says something like “I just didn’t like the way Neal would ask for the money.”
I voted both.
I will sleep better knowing that. Thanks!!
Everybody likes to mention Chris Archer, but Huntington has acquired Bryan Reynolds, Corey Dickerson and Colin Moran over the last year plus also watched draftees Josh Bell and Kevin Newman turn into fine everyday players.
I say give Huntington one more chance and let Hurdle walk.
I have never been a big “fire x or y” person. I actually usually find those arguments to be asinine and misdirected. This is a rare exception to my usual stance.
Neal Huntington had a vision when he was hired. It took some time to start to come together due to the sorry state of the franchise at that time. However, that vision not only proved to be insufficient, but also appears to be based on false premises. I am not quoting him anywhere here, but am putting the gist of what I think he has meant.
Huntington has continually stated that:
1) Building a winning team through free agency is not effective or a good idea
2) A team like the Pirates needs a strong farm system to get most upgrades from within
3) Significant moves should only occur when a significant move would put them over the top
He has also said that the focus should be to put together a winning team every season as opposed to a great team that will only get 1 or 2 chances. I took this to mean to make sure the team never drops below average by being fueled by the farm system. In other words, if they put most of the money and energy into drafting, developing, etc., then there will always be a solid core. Then adding pieces via free agency or trades could make sure the team is always above average. I was a huge fan of this strategy. The problem is that it has not worked.
The drafting and development has not been consistently top-notch. We had 2 or 3 seasons with a top-rated farm system? Before and after those seasons, it has been mediocre at best.
Then… When the farm system WAS good and the team on the field was solidly above average, no significant moves were made! In 2013, 2014, and 2015, no “significant’ moves were made. There were minor signings and trades–some that turned out well and some that didn’t. There was endearing shrewdness on the part of Huntington many times throughout these seasons–Burnett, Martin, Cervelli, Happ, Liriano, etc… But nothing that carried real risk.
To top it all off, THE top prospects were traded in a significant move for Chris Archer. I was always a huge Archer fan and believed he could and would be better with a change of scenery. Can’t necessarily fault Huntington for that—EXCEPT that even if Archer was a 3.00 ERA pitcher (rather than 5.00), the players given up–Glasnow, Meadows AND Baz seemed way too steep.
Think about it–TB gets Glasnow, Meadows, and Baz for Chris Archer. Gerrit Cole, a better pitcher (even before these trades) brought back NO top prospects and spare parts. What is this???
At this point, the team is being mismanaged at every level. Ownership, the front office, and coaching are all showing MAJOR holes at this point.
I was a big Hurdle fan for many years. However, he deserved to get suspended after the frackas with Cincinnati. Season after season of on-field fights, usually because of intentionally hitting batters, consistently leading the league in hit batsmen, and players fighting with EACH OTHER now is more than enough. Time to move on.
Hurdle also often appears like a weak amalgamation of old-school and new-age baseball. Managing the team skillfully “old-school style” would be fine. Doing so skillfully “new-age style” would also be fine. Combining the styles artfully would also be fine–probably awesome. But instead it seems like he isn’t especially skilled the old way and doesn’t even understand the new way, yet is trying to combine them. Not sure how else to explain it, and I have already written a book.
FIRE THEM BOTH.
One more comment… NH essentially “trained” under Cleveland’s leadership and fully intended to implement what he learned there, here. Both are in similar financial and market situations and have taken similar approaches to building a winning team. One of these teams has been more successful than the other.
I think I can sum up the trade philosophy. Rather than getting 1 or 2 top prospects in a trade, they always went for 4 mediocre guys. It was quantity over quality. He thought he could sustain a minor league system that way and maybe score a few bullseyes I guess. Bay traded for 4 players, none of which worked out. Hanrahan traded for 4 players, of which only Melancon worked out (and oh, by the way, Brock Holt, who was also lost in that trade, has been DANG GOOD as a Red Sox utility player on World Series calibre teams… we could have used him.). Jack Wilson and Ian Snell traded for 4 busts. Cole was traded for 4 players. jury is still out, but if Musgrove is your best player, not much of trade. The best one was McClouth for 3 players, of which he got Morton and Locke, but Locke’s success was short lived and Morton was mis-used. Neil Walker traded for ‘3 years of control” over Jon Niese. Disaster!! But he made a point to mention the quantity of years.
Owner cares more about making money than winning, so manager/GM is moot, I think.
I think that they should probably let the manager, coach, and the pitching coach all go, at least! I keep looking at how well the pitchers that have been traded are doing now, and what the pirates got in return and how they are doing. No comparison, really
You forgot the 5th choice: Move the team to Vegas. 2026 is getting closer and closer.
Everything sounds good in a vacuum, give me the name of a GM that Nutting would hire and who would actually take the job.
In all fairness, they’ve had more than enough seasons to make it happen. The brief but limited success in 2013-15 probably earned them the additional seasons. Considering the history since 1992, they should probably be in the team HOF. Even though I root for another team, I’ve always liked this team. My first time watching them was in the 1979 World Series. That was an amazing group of players.
I’d keep Huntington. Over the years, he has made a number of good trades. Granted that last year’s Archer trade was bad (but not as bad as most claim), but that was made in part due to fan pressure. Fans were whining that the Pirates never made a big trade at the deadline. People like to cite the Archer trade, but forget the McCutchen trade, the Melacon for Vasquez trade, etc.
Hurdle should be fired. Yes, he is accessible to the players, but his in-game managing is terrible. Even with the injuries this year, i believe that this team was far better than its record and woud have a much better record with a different manager. Hurdle seems to be fixated on his arbitrary rules about how to manage instead of analyzing a situation and coming up with a solution.
I would probably fire Cora and Searage and invest more in player development.
Fire hurdle. Give Huntington more time. Nutting isnt selling the team. As much as he should, he won’t. To me the biggest culprit is searage. He screwed with Glasgow and now keller. Look at Cole in Houston. Let these guys pitch they way they know how. They tried to change archer. Searage is good eith second hand veterans. He’s the one. And hurdle? He’s a joke.
I watched a similar situation in Philly about a dozen years ago. Ed Wade was our GM and he was roasted in the papers and on talk radio for never doing enough at the trade deadlines to improve not great but decent teams. It didn’t come out until after Wade was fired that the Phillies brass nixed several of his moves because they didn’t want to spend the money.
It’s not the GM’s fault if ownership won’t give him the cheese to pursue top level talent When I look at some of the players Huntington has acquired on the cheap, I’m pretty impressed, especially Bryan Reynolds.
Like a lot of teams, Pirate fans are gonna have to be content with having their GM shop at Filene’s Basement instead of Bloomingdales.
Wade also handed the Blue Jays Ryan Howard for Ted Lilly. Luckily Wade was dealing with a clueless JP Ricciardi along with Keith Law. Wade also torpedoed the Astros. Gillick then helps Philly win a title, and Houston’s now a powerhouse. Maybe Wade drafted well but it’s probably best that he was held back from making moves.
The irony is that the Archer trade was the OPPOSITE of how Huntingdon does business.
It was made to appease the very fans and media (who now call for his head) who complained for YEARS that they never “go for it” or “make big trades” because “Huntingdon is too in love with his prospects.”
He was right. They were wrong. And now they want him fired for it.
Trades like Reynolds and Vazquez and O’Neill Cruz are the ONLY reason why the Pirates are even this good. Remove that and you just have Nutting and 110 losses a year.
Yep your right pirate fans are some of the worst
For both, bring in someone competent to trade Vazquez, be good.
Relegation. Make them earn their way back into MLB.
Silly.
Too many poor drafts, too many bad trades, too many top prospects that fail here i.e glasnow and maybe even keller, too many losing seasons, too much clubhouse fighting, too many AAA relief pitchers that don’t belong in the majors, too many bad managerial decisions, too many prospects given away for nothing i.e Reese McGuire and Harold Ramirez to save salaries, too many free agents not resigned i.e Happ.
Does anyone need more reasons that we need a new GM and Mgr.?
Clint should go but not NH.
Clint is lifeless and does not manage the bullpen properly.
They need a manager with energy and who holds the players more accountable.
They could not find a GM as good as NH.His trades over the last seven years have almost always followed a script.They have been generally good except for the Archer trade which did not meet the script.
NH buys into the bs,and has not proven to do well with free agents.They have generally been good with resigning their own players and have paid the going rate.He made a severe mistake this year by not having ML capable pitching reinforcements.
Keep the hitting coaches,not sure about Ray,and let the others go.Get a new doctor’s staff.
See if NH learns from his mistakes this year.If his new manager does not work out,fire both of them after a year.
This is a tough job for a small market team.They tend to be cyclical with good and bad periods.That is the bottom line.They are only fodder for the large market teams.
Nutting is a businessman and not a sports guy.He will pay if it brings excitement and fans to the park.
The Pirates need a number of changes,but the basic team is fairly good,and key additions will maximize the chance to actually compete again.
The fans just need hope to be competitive,and NH needs to figure out how to do that as this is a very key off season for this storied franchise’s history.