It appears that ten players have received qualifying offers this year. Bob Nightengale of USA Today rounds up the full slate of players on Twitter, some of whom were already reported and covered on this site.
This year’s qualifying offer value is $17.8MM for a one-year term. Players issued the offer will have ten days to assess their options. Should a player reject the offer and fail to work out a deal with their existing team, he will enter the market carrying the requirement that a signing team sacrifice draft compensation. (While the former team would not stand to lose a pick, it would not gain a compensatory pick if it re-signs that player.) Click here for a full rundown of the QO rules.
This represents a bounce back up in the number of players to receive a qualifying offer. Last year was a record-low of seven, with other offseasons ranging from nine (2012, 2017) all the way up to twenty offers (2015).
Here are the ten players:
- Jose Abreu, 1B, White Sox
- Madison Bumgarner, SP, Giants
- Gerrit Cole, SP, Astros
- Josh Donaldson, 3B, Braves
- Jake Odorizzi, SP, Twins
- Marcell Ozuna, OF, Cardinals
- Anthony Rendon, 3B, Nationals
- Will Smith, RP, Giants
- Stephen Strasburg, SP, Nationals
- Zack Wheeler, SP, Mets
There are a few notable players that were eligible for the QO but did not receive it. Those players will hit the open market free and clear of draft compensation. Didi Gregorius of the Yankees and Cole Hamels of the Cubs were perhaps the leading possibilities beyond those that received the offer. J.D. Martinez would surely have received one from the Red Sox had he opted out of his deal; Aroldis Chapman was also certain to get a QO had he not agreed to a new contract. Quite a few other prominent free agents were ineligible because they were traded during the 2019 season and/or had previously received a qualifying offer.
Which means the one real question mark Didi did not receive one.
is that a bigger question than how the Red Sox gave Anthony Rendon a SO? ;P
bigger question is “what is a SO”?
Thanks for asking that! I am confused myself
It stands for Squalifying offer aka I have too fat of thumbs for my phone
#fatfingergang
This is the info I was looking for.
(Obi Wan Kenobi hand-wave)
These are not the ‘droids you are looking for…
Hahahaa!!
If I were the Yanks I would’ve, but he’d prob accept it.
And that’s why they didn’t. He’s not worth 18m
Since when does Rendon play for the Sox?
Not meant to be a reply
Based on “sources” he didn’t.
They don’t need him
Will smith gets one? Thats a surprise
yes and no, he is the top relief arm on the market and if he accepts it solidifies a place in the SF bullpen that got raided heavily, if he rejects at least you get something back for not moving him @ the DL.
It’s not a surprise at all.
No way Smith turns that down…. More likely they offer him 3/$30
If that was the offer I’d take the QO and look for a better deal next year. From $17.8MM to a $10MM AAV? Run away.
Hes gets 3/36 minimum
Yeah I bet accepts it.
Nah, fam. Decision was made in July to give him one. Otherwise he woulda been traded. Farhan can’t let assets leave the squad for nothing.
The qualifying offer is worth more than what Smith has made the last 6 years.
Rendon – the Boston legend
#NeverForget
Anthony we hardly knew you in Boston
There is a typo. Rendon is listed as a Red Sock.
People really be objectifying players like that. They have feelings too smh. #RendonIsMoreThanARedSock
Rendon….a Red Sox postseason legend
How did Anthony Rendon become a member of the Red Sox
new GM making moves lol
Is it a typo… or an omen…whooooo
Whoooo
Anthony Rendon is listed as a member of the Red Sox……
Man, Rendon switched teams quick!
Well if its listed here. Its official. Quick Red Sox, trade him for something before the copy editor changes it back.And notify Msnfred
I feel like the White Sox value Abreu a lot higher than the rest of the league. Abreu should take that qualifying offer and run
You mean take that QO and stay.
Run to the bank.
It’s not like Abreu led the American League in RBIs this past season with 123 RBIs!
welcome to 2019, head on over to baseballreference and let us know when ur all caught up
That’s good
I created a tape with all of Abreu’s best RBI moments with my VCR. If you want to see the greatness, then fax me your info and I’ll send you a copy.
Your witty sarcasm has brought me joy on a bad day, Thanks!
What if we’ve used up all our free AOL time?
Hmmm to think rbis arent important because a millennial didnt invent them.
Agreed, their false-elitist rationale seems similar to a pitcher with a great bb/k rate but his persona never wins more than 3 games per year.
That’s not why RBIs aren’t used to determine contract value.
No formula for that little thing called Chemistry
When chemistry, grit and high motors contribute in a meaningful way, maybe there will be a formula.
Well actually they are, in something called arbitration which determines what like a quarter of the salaries in the league. And before you say this discussion isn’t about arbitration, don’t bother because you’re right: it’s about RBIs being irrelevant, which they aren’t based on what I just said.
Winner of the comment section for the day
RBI’s are not cited in arbitration. Arbiters are well aware of their meaningless counting-stat status.
so abreu deserves a QO bc he led the league in rbi? and rbi is a true measure of skill and isnt dependant upon position in the lineup or team? then why’d he only have 93 last year? why has he only BARELY cleared 100 RBI’S every other year of his career? RBI’S are solely dependant on your TEAM. if mike trout was in the astros or yankees or even twins lineup he would’ve had 300 RBI’s this year.
@George If you think those things dont you’re following the wrong sport.
in 2016 a certain player had 96 rbi’s and his league in home runs. flash forward 1 year later and he’s literally out of baseball. he was 29 years old. that’s how much RBI’s matter
Anyone who thinks the RBI is an irrelevant stat is a moron. You can’t win without runs. You metric nerds are absolutely clueless. Why anyone puts any faith in an equation over what actually happens on the field is beyond me.
@Phils Phanatic:
Since Abreu is on the White Sox, his RBI’s are even more noteworthy.
anybody who thinks that jose abreu is a better player than mike trout solely because he had more AB’s with runners in scoring position is a moron. get with the times. u cant get an rbi without ur teamates being on base. it’s a team dependant stat that it completely outdated. let me guess, batting average is the best way to determine who the best hitter is too?
@mo4ever so because abreu played on the white sox all of a sudden his rbi’s are more valuable than anybody elses? i guess that means that miggy cabrera’s 59 rbi’s for the tigers(the worst offense in baseball) means he should be MVP by ur logic?
@phils phanatic
argumentum ad absurdum is still a logical flaw, even in 2019.
exactly, ur logic made no sense otherwise cabrera’s rbi’s are more valuable because he played on a worse offensive team than anyone else
I dont think anyone is saying he is better than Trout. But to completely disregard rbis as a noteworthy stat is idiocy. It is a team driven stat in part, but the player still has to perform.
abreu was 10th in the league in avg with RISP…7 of the guys in front of him made LESS than he made this past year, which was less than the QO. of those 10 guys, abreu had the most AB’S with RISP.
“RBI’S are solely dependant on your TEAM.”
No, no they are not. They are dependent on how you hit with runners in scoring position and how many home runs you hit. The team plays a part in that, but it is not even close to the only part.
Also, the White Sox lineup wasn’t good, so if RBI’s are solely dependent on your team, how did Abreu lead the league?
@Phils Phanatic
Cabrera’s RBI’s WERE more notable on Detroit than they would be if he had 59 RBI’s on the Sox or Yankees, where there are baserunners galore. They are not enough to secure him an MVP, as you absurdly suggest in a vain effort to make your point, but they ARE worth more, as 59 RBI’s go, than they would be with tons of baserunners. Ergo ipso fatso, Abreu’s RBI’s on the White Sox are worth more, RBI per RBI, than, say, JDM’s on the Red Sox, or DJ LeMahieu on the Yankees. Get it now, Einstein?
i’ll say it louder for those in the back…ABREU HAD MORE AB’S WITH RUNNERS ON BASE THAN THE 9 OTHER GUYS WHO HAD A HIGHER AVG WITH RISP. he has more rbi’s because he has more at bats with runners in scoring position.
matter of fact out of the the top 25 hitters in the AL with RISP abreu had more AB’s than all of them.more chances=more rbi’s. simple math
“abreu was 10th in the league in avg with RISP… of those 10 guys, abreu had the most AB’S with RISP.”
So he was really good with RISP…? Good to know. The list of players at the top of the league in RBI’s that aren’t good with RISP is very, very small. Despite what you’re trying to make it sound like, NOBODY is saying RBI’s are the only important stat in baseball.
he did hit well with RISP but he also compiled all those rbi’s with 40+ extra chances than the next closest guy and the guys above him on that list arent potentially making $18M next year. he’s replaceable. 1b and dh are the 2 easiest positions to fill in all of baseball and u can fill them with guys who only make $6-8M a year in FA. and actually i believe the quote from an earlier post was “RBI’s are an important stat because the whole point of the game is to score runs” chris carter led the league in home runs in 2016 and finished with 96 rbi’s…the next year he was out of the league. if rbi’s were that important he’d still have a job
“and actually i believe the quote from an earlier post was “RBI’s are an important stat because the whole point of the game is to score runs” chris carter led the league in home runs in 2016 and finished with 96 rbi’s…the next year he was out of the league. if rbi’s were that important he’d still have a job”
What part of that says RBI’s are the only important stat? Let’s try this: Chris Carter led the National League in home runs in 2016 and finished with 96 RBI’s (actually 94)… the next year he was out of the league. If home runs were that important, he’d still have a job.
It’s almost like there isn’t just 1 stat that determines how valuable a player is…
The top of the White Sox order was quite good priggs. You know how you can tell? Jose Abreu’s RBI total!
@prigs i never said there was 1 be all end all stat but rbi’s are certainly near the bottom of the totem pole
can we now talk about the fact that abreu is so good at getting runners across home that he led the league in grounding into double plays?should we move on to his below average fielding(when he does play the field)? or how about his negative value on the basepaths?
I’ll make sure to let Leury’s agent know you think that. You know, the guy that lead off 134 games with a .310 OBP… The “quite good” part of the lineup was hitting 2-6 (with Abreu being third). The rest of the offense was embarrassing.
No, you didn’t say there was 1 be all end all stat, but you attempted to make it sound like other people were saying that about RBI”s to “win” your argument – which isn’t even close to true.
“anybody who thinks that jose abreu is a better player than mike trout solely because he had more AB’s with runners in scoring position is a moron.”
Nobody ever said anything remotely close to that.
Ok doke. Tell people to stop driving in runners. Since Phil phanatic says they’re not important.
~22% of Abreu’s RBI’s were from driving in Anderson and/or Moncada. ~63% were from driving in himself and arguably the worst leadoff hitter in baseball. The other ~15% included bums like Yolmer, Engel, Tilson, Cordell, etc.
If RBI’s were “solely team dependent,” Abreu would’ve been lucky to finish in the top 100.
that was in response to this
“because abreu plays on the sox it makes his rbi’s even more noteworthy” which was the conclusion said poster was pushing toward. fact of the matter is the basis of the argument of abreu being deserving of a QO has been “because he led the league in RBI’s”. thames has a very similar offensive profile to abreu and just had his $7.5M option declined. the sox just offered,again a similar player, $17M+
They aren’t so stop driving in runners dadgumit
She doth protesteth too much
I didn’t see anyone suggest Abreu is better than Trout. You did Phils. Glad to know you prefer walks and stranded runners over scoring, hitting and winning. The second sentence was a presumption, much like your comments today. See what I did there?
or stop thinking that rbi’s is an important stat 😉
@priggs89
Yes or No-
Do you believe GMs will be looking at RBI’s when making decisions on trade or free agent targets this offseason?
RBi/Lob (left on base) is a stat worth looking at. CWS didnt have the best 1 and 2 hitters. RBIs are hitting in clutch to me and very valuable
@werealljust guests i dont believe the white sox did a whole lot of winning this year and they had the guy who led the league in RBI’s. and for the record yes they said “abreu’s rbi’s are more valuable on the sox” i posted the full quote in my last post, not looking for it again. not hard to find
@priggs it doesnt matter if he’s the “worst leadoff hitter in the game” he was still on base 31% of the time and combined with his steals(15/20) and xbh he was in scoring position to account for roughly 30% of his rbi’s. anderson had an obp around .350, moncada an obp just under .400. abreu had at least 1 guy on base more often than hence why he had more ab’s with RISP then the rest of the league
@couldbe and avoiding double plays isnt?abreu led the league in GIDP. he also ran into a lot of outs on the basepaths
Wow, that escalated fast. Somewhere there lies a happy medium between placing too much of a premium on RBIs, which noone here seems to be saying (we get it, you’ve picked up a basic tenet of modern sabermetrics, congrats you’re a hipster, here’s your medallion), and Phils Phanatic throwing a hissyfit over the mere mention of RBIs, (they dont matter! You’re not more valuable than Mike Trout! You’re all cavemen! I’m the sharp one because I quote Baseball Reference!! Agghhh!) Like the insufferable Brooklyn hipster who just discovered Pitchfork and lords over the fact that he can regurgitate his newfound self knowledge, in the process discounting all accomplished artists that came before said hipster even knew that music was a thing. Cant we all just get along?
@williewildkat actually if u go back up to the very post that started this whole “discussion” you’ll see it was started by the poster saying “it’s not like abreu led the league in rbi’s this year” as the reasoning behind extending him a QO as if leading the league in rbi’s at an offense first position(1b/dh)somehow equates to $17M plus for a guy who will be 33 yrs old come next season
We get it. You’re a hipster. You’ve mentioned Baseball Reference. That must make you post modern, with those analytics boys. Hurrah. Here’s your medal. Can you stop posting and making this insufferably silly thread, insufferably longer?
if you’d actually read you’d see i didnt even break out any analytics,just common sense. if it’s that “insufferable” dont read it or drop “hipster” in 2 comments in a row to keep it going like you’ve even followed or been apart of the discussion at all. im sorry, did i trigger u by actually talking about baseball on a baseball site?
@ppalma
Yes, I think if a team is looking for somebody to drive in runs in the middle of their order, they will look at RBI’s. I also think they’ll dig much, much deeper and try to figure out how/why said player was able to drive in so many runs (or not able to) since it’s their job to predict future success. RBI’s are just a starting point, and they’re a pretty good indicator that a player was good with runners in scoring position if they have a lot of them. Save a few outliers, I think you’d be hard pressed to find guys at the top of the league in RBI’s that weren’t good with runners in scoring position.
Will Smith, Derek Dietrich, Ty France, Clint Frazier, and Mitch Garver were the top 5 in all of baseball for OPS with RISP. Do you believe GM’s would rather have those 5 hitting with RISP than the top 6 in RBI’s (5th place was a tie) – Anthony Rendon, Jose Abreu, Freddie Freeman, Pete Alonso, Eduardo Escobar/Nolan Arenado? I sure don’t.
@phils phanatic
I find it hard to believe you can keep a straight face and say RBI’s are 100% team dependent, and then you say it doesn’t matter that the Sox had one of the worst hitters in baseball hitting leadoff. If they’re 100% team dependent, it’d absolutely matter.
Juan Soto only had 2 less at-bats with RISP, yet he drove in 13 less runs. You know what that tells me? Abreu did a better job taking advantage of his opportunities with RISP. Does that mean Abreu is a better player? No. It just means he was better with RISP.
Can you send a copy in Betamax?
That player is also a consistent 220 and under hitter,and doesn’t add much beyond the home runs.Abreu hits 280,has good ob%s,and adds 35 doubles.He’s closer to Jd Martinez,than he is Chris Carter.
Batting average added to the RBI conversation. Now we’re really cookin’.
“can we now talk about the fact that abreu is so good at getting runners across home that he led the league in grounding into double plays?”
You should probably go look at the all time list of GIDP leaders in baseball before making a comment like that. I’ll save you time – the top 10 include: Pujols, Ripken, Pudge, Aaron, Yas, Winfield, Miggy, Murray, Rice, and Franco.
Unless you’re willing to say those guys aren’t/weren’t good at getting runners across home, your comment doesn’t hold up. FYI – only 3 of those guys aren’t in the top 30 of all time for RBI’s (and Franco is the only one not in the top 100 – #159).
I’ll give you the fielding though. He’s brutal – and I’ve said that many, many times before. He has no range, and he does not help his other infielders on throws at all.
@priggs89
Well, they don’t.
And it’s strange to me that there are still baseball fans who think they do.
@priggs now we’re talking more than just looking at rbi’s arent we? now i can at least respect ur point of view as opposed to the original argument of “he deserves to QO bc he led the league in RBI’s”, although i dont believe u were the one that originally phrased it like that. as for the soto RISP compared to abreu situation here’s where the “team affect” comes in to play . runner on 2nd(in scoring position) soto hit a clean single but instead of a moncada, or sanchez or anderson on 2nd it’s anthony rendon who hit in front of soto most of the year and doesnt run as well as the chi sox trio. or adam eaton who spent most of his year hitting either leadoff or 2nd and again isnt as fast as the chi sox trio. how about dozier or howie kendrick both guys who arent fast and got their share of ABs in the 2 hole. that’s a base hit with a RISP that should score a run and more often than not would have with any of the chisox trio but all those nationals guys likely get the stop sign at 3rd
@rgreen thames is a similar offensive profile to abreu and just had a $7.5M option declined, the sox offered abreu more than double that…and thames can actually field a position
prigs-all those guys u listed peach and every one of them played for a very long time. of course ur going to ground into alot of double plays when ur mid 30’s and up still playing
Uh… I think you can get an rbi with no one on base. Isn’t it called a solo homerun?
He still has to get hits.
Sure, that’s part of it. But I’d be willing to bet each and every one of them grounded into quite a few double plays well before their mid 30’s and up as well.
I’m not going to go back and look at all of them, but I just looked at Pujols and Miggy because they’re the most recent players on that list, and they grounded into a whole bunch of double plays in their prime.
Through Pujols first 10 years in the league, he only had 2 that he wasn’t top 10 in GIDP. From ’01-’10, he finished 5, T7, T43, 8, T6, T6, T1, T19, T5, and T3.
Through Miggy’s 13 year run of dominance, he only had 4 that he wasn’t top 10 in GIDP (and one of them he was hurt). From ’04-’16, he finished T9, T4, T9, T15, T23, T4, T19, T2, 1, T10, T4, T12 (only played 119 games), and 1.
I highly doubt they’re outliers.
phils phanatic It is still a skill to be able get a clutch hit when someone is on base. Most players choke in that situation but Abreu is able consistently produce and that is why he is hitting in the meat of the lineup and knocking in runs. Rbi’s are still and will always be a valuable stat when taken in context. Statheads need to seriously give it a rest.
Baseball is great. A team where all 25 players are a nemesis of the other 24 players has an equal shot as a team of bosom buddies if the talent is equal. Grit and chemistry are descriptions used by announcers to tell a story.
RBI are not used in arbitration hearings and haven’t been since the beginning of the new CBA.. BA is. HR are. PA are. RBI are not.
@DTD RBI are irrelevant. The batter who has the most baserunners is usually the guy with the most RBI. 2019 was not an exception.
Abreu had 55 more runners on base but only 6 more RBI than the next highest in RBI.
Do the math. 117 of 411 (28.5%) means that player was better at driving in runs than Abreu at 123 of 465.(26.5%).
I will leave it up to you to figure out who it was.
RBI is a team stat.
Long ago it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no such thing as being clutch. Abreu certainly wasn’t. He was not in the top 10 in BA with RISP. He was not in the top 30 in high leverage situations.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&…
RBI are not valuable unless you take into account how many baserunners were on. Abreu was not in the top 10 in run creation.
Ergo ipso fatso, Mo? Now we are talking.
Abreu is just 1 man Phils. You should know that with that big Bryce Harper signing. It got your team….nowhere? Maybe if he drove in more runs, played better defense and stopped settling for walks with runners on base your Phils would actually win.
You mentioning Trout, at all, cannot be justified. You made a bad point, a bad argument, and a bad take. If you don’t want Abreu on your team that’s cool. Settle for 3rd place again and take a nice L.
Barely cleared 100. He knocked in 123 runs on a team that was 24th in the leaguein runs scored. Over the last six years how many players have knocked in 90 runs every year for the last 6 years nort too many.For instance not Trout not Martine not Betts not Bregman not Harper not Rendon etc.Well Abreu has. and Abreu has knocked in over 100 runs in 5 of those 6 years something that none of those listed players have done and he did it for one of the lowest scoring teams in baseball.I like that barely passed 100 rbis.Veryfunny.Thats like saying barely cleared 40 hrs.Good one.
you’re right..it is *way* beyond you.
where exactly do you think the numbers come from? they *describe* everything that happens on the field in more meaningful and complete ways because your precious eye test is both biased and incomplete. why is this so difficult to understand?
do you think it would be practical to watch every single game every season and try to just remember how many RBIs each player had? i give it about 1.5 hours into day one of the season until you give up and go looking for some more efficient way to aggregate *what you see on the field* then promptly insert your foot in your mouth.
why the hell do you think counting stats were created in the first place? advanced metrics are an extension of the basic statistics for the people that didn’t fail their simpleton algebra classes in high school. try to catch up, sweetheart.
Who cares?
i agree. that’s the one surprise to me but my guess would be they plan to use it as leverage to get a multi year deal
They’re adding to his job responsibilities next year with our upcoming additions
Can you try to comment something worth reading?
I think that says a lot, actually.
Simply a formality. He’s signing a multi year extension
Rendon is a National not Red Sox.
anthony rendon red sox?
I didn’t know rendon was a 3rd baseman for the Red Sox
Red Sox wish they could get Rendon on a QO
Tendon isn’t the Red Sox
*rendon*
And now we can begin to understand how my typo slipped into the post!
But only 200 people pointed it out thinking they were cool.
Autocorrect’s big market bias
Chicken?
I think it is a little mean-spirited to be talking about our pitching rotation like that.
I think Smith accepts and maybe Odorizzi, everyone else doesn’t
If Abreu doesn’t he needs to fire his agent.
Ozuna sure. Castellanos and Puig may already have soft markets, and Ozuna with a QO will only be softer.
I don’t think he’ll accept, but will work out a new deal w/ STL
Nice work already by Chaim Bloom, acquiring Rendon for the Red Sox. Way to go!!!
What would it cost to get donaldson on the angels? Im thinking he would be much cheaper than rendon and fills a hole for them.
If the angels can add him, gerrit cole and say an ordorizi/bumgarner, then go for a jason castro they might have a shot at the playoffs.
How could the Angels possibly sign Donaldson when they’re already about to sign every other free agent on the market?
They won’t need him, Cozart will be Comeback Player of the Year at 3B!
.231/.299/.438
Anthony Rendon does not play for the Red Sox…
You’re only like the 500th person to mention that typo. Maybe take a glance at the comments before pedantically correcting an honest mistake.
Damn….did you see Rendon is with the Red Sox?
Will Smith gotta be so psyched lol
Will Smith would be smart to take the QO.
Not so fast. Dude’s already had one TJ, and he’d most likely be traded in July if he accepts.
I agree. He doesnt take it he’s signing for 8-12mil this year come April or May. The draft pick just kills so much value. How many RPs even make 17.8mil? On a yearly avg?
Rendon is with the Nationals, not the Red Sox
I feel like I’m in the minority and am happy we have Smith a QO. If somebody signs him before the draft we recoup some value, if he accepts it we can try and flip him at the deadline for potential value and even worst case he accepts it and is bad, well it’s only one year and we aren’t contending anyways.
This a thousand times this.
This was decided in July. Farhan can’t let assets leave the squad for nothing. If they weren’t going to QO him, he woulda been traded in July.
The best play for Giants is for him to reject, tho. They have $60M to spend and no reason to spend a third of that on a closer. The question is does Farhan offer a 3-year deal in the next 10 days?
You have Anthony Rendon listed as Red Sox lol
I am curious how many of these guys will sign deals with a higher AAV then the QO. I wish more dudes would bet on themselves and go short big money deals while relatively young. Unless I’m a pitcher, and maybe even then, I feel like going year to year for high value contracts would be a hell of a wild ride.
Answer is five or six.
Cole, Rendon, Strasburg and Donaldson will definitely get a higher AAV. I think Bumgarner and Ozuna are the only other two with a chance
Will smith lol…. yikes
Just one of the best relievers in ball the last two years.
Anthony Rendon. 3B. Red Sox????
*Rendon comment*
Something something…Rendon Red Sox
And when did Anthony Rendon become a Red Sox?
On a serious note, Will Smith should accept the QO. He can go back on the market next year, having the same value and $18M in his pocket.
Only same value if he pitches exceptionally well again. (Yes he would be free of QO but would be one year old so call that a wash.) So not as easy as it sounds.
A lot easier for position players. He’s already had one TJ and if he accepts, he’s most likely traded in July. Turning down the QO means more money overall and he gets to pick his home for the next few years. ♂️
The QO is way more than smith could get on the market
it may not have been if he didn’t have the QO but with it on him it is probably going to hurt his market
He can probably get 3 years/$36 million.
that’s the exact numbers i was thinking of for him with the QO attached. guess it depends on how much faith he has in himself bc if he comes back on the QO and pitches the same way that same offer will be out there next year as well(maybe even better with a repeat). so comes down to 3/$36M or bet on urself and potentially get 4/$53M at minimum
Not with a qualify offer hanging over his head. Teams hate giving up draft picks for this middle price smallish deals. He better accept it, or he’ll be looking for a team in April.
They don’t at all. Milwaukee did for one year of Grandal. Mets did for two years of Cuddyer(!). Orioles did for two(?) years of that guy who had a solid year for the Rangers.
Teams actually hate giving up draft picks for lunatic pitchers who think they are worth nine figures (Keuchel and Kimbrel.)
if u sign early u get paid whether there’s a draft pick involved or not. look at the RP market the best few years, the best deals(for players at least) have come early in FA
Milw doesnt lose as much in a draft pick. They lost I think a 3rd rd pick. But look now at their minors. It’s sitting about dead last? After the graduates and trades.
Question would be, what lower revenue team is a Will Smith away that loses that 4th pick from WS hype? Also, having the payroll flexibility?
why would u think that a lower revenue team would be in the market for the top relief pitcher on the market? dodgers, phillies, astros, red sox(depending on their payroll situation), mets, braves, angels, cubs, and twins are all playoff hopeful teams that need backend relief help. u could make the case that half the teams in baseball would be in on him depending on what he’s looking for
Since when does Rendon play for the Sox?
While i wish he was our 3rd baseman, I think Rendon ended the year with the Nats 🙂
I don’t know what’s more surprising: Abreu and Smith getting the offer, or Didi getting snubbed.
Didi slightly more.
Smith was gonna get the offer once he wasn’t traded in July. Farhan can’t lose assets off the team for nothing. So that’s 0% surprise.
Kinda surprised didi didn’t get one
There’s really no room for him unless the Yanks decide to leave LeMahieu at 1B, which makes little sense — especially when the Yanks know they need the money for pitching. Surely they want to play one of the cheaper corner players like Voit at 1B rather than risk paying Didi a lot of money. Besides, the Yanks could still re-sign Didi if they ultimately prefer him at short over Torres. But it comes down to Didi being expensive, an injury risk and playing the wrong position.
Well said.
I don’t agree with that at all.I think Didi defensively is a much better ss then Torres.I think Torres is better suited for 2b and is great there.I also think that trusting Ursela and Andujar to be consistently good at third Gio offensively Andujar defensively would be a risk and having Didi allows you to slide DJ over to third. Also much like the original reason for signing DJ he could be used at second third and first with Didi in the lineup. With rest days for Torres Didi and who ever is playing third even with a capable 3b there would be plenty of chances for everyone to play. Finally you say expensive. How much do you think Didi commands in the free market.I think 15 per year is tops. Not exactly a huge sum.
i think the yanks might be thinking about moving adjular over to first,because of his defensive troubles at 3rd,and playing urshela and dj at 3rd. either way i think there’s still room for didi and i think they may be hoping that they can get him back on a 1 year deal at a lesser salary than the QO. it may actually make sense if ur didi too. take say $15M for 1 year to return where you’re comfortable and in a good offensive evironment and re-enter the market next year as the top MI. coming off last year he was likely in line for $100M+ before the injury
Strasburg waits to resign with Nats so that they have to offer the QO which then makes him ineligible to have one attached to him if he is a free agent again in the future?
At this point he’s a regular free agent and he’s looking for a long term deal and won’t likely be a candidate for a QO in the future.
Yes…
What’s known now is that the Giants will start the next season with a decent, if overpriced bullpen. Even so, Zaidi will move both of them at the deadline for more minor league pieces, and since they didn’t have ready-made left-handed relievers waiting in AAA, I’ve got no problems with this approach. I’m more interested in what happens with Bumgarner.
smith will be the only high priced arm in the bullpen – it will be lower than last year though since it is just smith and watson whereas last year it was smith, melancon, dyson, watson (and pomeranz) pulling big league salaries
So it hasn’t been done yet, but I’ve never seen it anywhere how the QO works after acceptance: if the player accepts, are they eligible to be traded right away or are they not eligible until after May 15 like free agents?
I think it might be later actually like June? Or they can’t be period without their consent?
A free agent can be traded without their permission starting May 15 (99% sure that’s the right date). But if someone accepts a QO, they “stay” on the roster. So are they eligible to be traded?
for someone i thought january but i could be way off base. sounds like a question for the next chat.
The player is a free agent as of the final day of the season. When he accepts the QO that is the same as signing a 1 year FA contract. He cannot be traded until June 15th without the player’s consent.
Is it June? I thought it was May for some reason. But good to know.
How come everybody’s so down on Abreu. In 5 of his 6 years he had over a hundred RBI’s. Last year he hit 33 hrs with 123 RBIs. Why doesn’t anybody think he’s worth something?
Because people haven’t gauged player value by RBI’s since 1992.
Lack of any defensive value, .330 OBP, turns 33 in January. Not saying he isn’t useful, but he has a profile that isn’t tough to find.
While you are right in what he lacks, it’s not like the run of the mill bat-mostly first baseman puts up his numbers or would with the PA.
@spinach
12 1B put up better #’s than Abreu last season.He’d have been easy to replace.
@pplama 12 FIRST BASEMAN put up better stats than abreu last year…but abreu doesnt play the field much so dont consider him a 1B lol
Abreu played 125 ganes at 1B. And I was responding to spinach, who said not many 1B put up #’s like Abreu.
i know he “played” 125 games there but that was out of necessity, not bc he’s good at it. go check out his defensive numbers. he’s a dh masked as a 1B
Unfortunately he doesn’t like to DH. Renteria is too weak to make him. So the Sox are deliberately playing his terrible glove at 1B.
o trust me i get it and his role as “leader” gets him off the hook in that regard but at some point(soon) somebody’s gonna have to have a talk with him and tell him it’s best for the team to get him off the field
That’s the only reason I’d be fine with him accepting the QO. The decline is here. Staying 1 year at a time with him is the best thing for the Sox.
I guess hrs don’t count either.It makes sense though because now they give guys like Harper 13 year contracts because he has a good obp. I have post graduate degrees in psychology stats so I understand the advanced metrics.That being said if a player in the last 6 years can knock in 611 runs hes doing something right.Why don’t you name all the players throughout the league on much better hitting teams who have knocked in more over that period.Maybe you can explain it by saying he just had more chances then anybody else hitting 4th for the White Sox.Lol
Jose Abreu is plenty valuable, especially to the White Sox above and beyond his traditional stats. He offers important clubhouse intangibles to the White Sox as well as with his marketing value as the face of the franchise during their recent 3-year rebuild which should transition to relevancy and contention beginning in 2020.
Abreu deserves a chance to be a part of the White Sox going forward and the front office would be making a huge mistake by not letting that happen. I don’t believe he will be leaving anytime soon, especially with owner Jerry Reinsdorf on his side and signing the checks.
Don’t let the eggheads here tell you otherwise.
Don’t mention intangibles – there isn’t a stat for them, so they clearly don’t matter.
Funny how Theo talks about character ALL the time when discussing his roster, but if a fan brings it up, they get attacked immediately. It’s almost like there’s more to baseball than just a spreadsheet.
RBI is a team stat, not a measure of individual performance. Many players have been better at driving in and creating runs than Abreu over that period. Add to that his defensive deficiencies and you have a good but not great player.
I don’t quite understand the Will Smith offer — his second half splits were pretty bad:
1st half:
OPS – .490
SO/W – 6.63
HR allowed – 3
WHIP – 0.798
2nd half
OPS – .761
SO/W – 3.31
HR allowed – 7
WHIP – 1.310
Not exactly the trend you want to see in your closer.
They have a ton of payroll space. If not you’re right it would have been fairly questionable.
So Has Cole officially turned his QO offer down yet?
boras laughed and said “watch this kid, i’ll get u $18M/start!”
I think the NYY made the right move. Didi is pretty good, but I think he’d have accepted the QO, just to re-establish himself with a healthy year. Then the NYY get stuck with a player for $17M+, that they didn’t really have a starting position for. Better to save their pennies for Cole.
They are about $90m under the tax line and they aren’t going to spend it all on onerous long term deals. Smith’s not great but the offer is fine even if he excepts.
With arb raises the Yankees are over $200mil in payroll obligations before making their first FA signinng.
White Sox just threw $5mil in the toilet.
Cubs threw their entire dynasty in the toilet
the cubs have a dynasty? they won one ring.
Well, it was set up to be. Now into the toilet.
Have faith! Perhaps David Ross can unclog the crap that Joe Maddon and Theo have left in the toilet since 2016.
Thames 116 wRC+, 1.9 fWAR has $7.5mil option declined by Brewers.
Abreu 117 wRC+, 1.9 fWAR gets $17.8mil QO from White Sox.
One of these teams does not operate as if it’s 2019.
Yeah, White Sox’s didn’t really think that one through
White Sox contacted the commissioners office to see if the could shed anymore international bous pool money as part of their QO. Williams and Hahn paying the twtw premium.
Yes, because cherry picking advanced analytics are the sole source of comparing Jose Abreu and Eric Thames. lol
I have news for all you eggheads. Eric Thames has more in common with Yonder Alonso than he has with Jose Abreu. I’m especially surprised (not really) in pplama since he is a die-hard White Sox fan and fails to recognize the enormous intangible contributions that Abreu makes to the White Sox in terms of mentoring and recruiting international talent as well as his marketing importance to the team. This is aside from the ‘historic’ offensive production Abreu has provided the White Sox over the course of his 6 years with the team.
what “historic” offense has abreu provided? also feel the need to point out that thames actually plays a position in the field and is better on the bases
You and the other eggheads wouldn’t recognize or acknowledge historic offense since you disregard traditional stats like HR’s and RBI’s where Abreu has staked a place among the greats in MLB and among past White Sox sluggers during his relatively short time in the game since beginning his career in Chicago 6 years ago.
Additionally, Abreu has primarily been a first baseman throughout his MLB career, not a DH. That’s not to say that his defense is good. I’m just stating a fact.
Since you clearly are an egghead, consider that Eric Thames has posted an accumulative 3.4 fWAR in his first 5 MLB seasons. Those metrics include a whopping 6.2 oWAR and a -5.3 dWAR (baseball-reference.com/players/t/thameer01.shtml). Compare those numbers to Abreu in his first 6 seasons (baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreujo02.shtml) and suck on those eggs for a while before your next reply.
first off abreu is nowhere near an MLB great, white sox great?maybe but that’s a pretty low bar. also, thames has only been back in the states for 3 seasons now so stop looking at stats from what is essentially a different player. also, look at only thames’ 1B defensive metrics and take out his rf metrics since he was playing out of position to help his team and considering abreu would be humerous in RF
I never said Abreu was an MLB great, merely that he “staked a place among the greats” with his HR and RBI numbers to begin his career.
It’s fair to point out Thames split MLB career. Even so, Abreu has posted better traditional AND advanced analytical numbers in his 6 years versus Thames past 3 since he returned stateside. From an egghead perspective and just comparing each players last 3 seasons, Thames has posted an accumulative 3.6 bWAR and 4.9 fWAR while Abreu has put up 8.9 bWAR and 7.4 fWAR metrics.
Btw: I had originally posted that Thames career fWAR was 3.4. That is his bWAR. Thames fWAR is 4.8 which still pales in comparison to Abeu’s 21.2 bWAR and 17.9 fWAR.
Thames – 459PA, 117 OPS+, .346 OBP, .505 SLG, .851 OPS, HR % – 5.5%
Abreu – 693 PA, 119 OPS+, .330 OBP, .503 SLG, .834 OPS, HR% – 4.8%
Abreu’s counting numbers were better because he got 234 more PA.
So now were going to discount Abreu because of his durability, something he has demonstrated in every season except for 2018 when he lost significant time due to an injury no man ever wishes to experience?
How about comparing batting orders as well? How did the Brewers lineup stack up versus the White Sox the past three season since Thames returned to the states, when Chicago had just begun their painful rebuild while Milwaukee was contending for an NL Central crown and adding players such as Christian Yelich and Lorenzo Cain.
Give me a freaking break with these cherry picked stats and consider everything that Abreu has done for the White Sox compared to what Thames offers the Brewers. Also consider how they might have fared by switching teams the past 3 seasons and mull over that before your next comment reply.
“Abreu’s counting numbers were better because he got 234 more PA.”
And Thames’ rate numbers were similar because he only played against righties. Assuming Thames was benched mostly against lefties, his rate numbers would’ve dropped significantly if he had 234 more PA’s.
Maybe the Sox can just get Thames on the cheap and platoon the two.
Thames vs RHP – 397 PA, 131 OPS+, .348 OBP, .529 SLG, .877 OPS
Abreu vs LHP – 182 PA, 162 OPS+, .418 OBP, .591 SLG, 1.009 OPS
Amen to the first thought.
As far as Eric Thames goes, I believe he eventually returns to the Brewers as a FA at a lesser AAV than their $7.5MM declined contract option. Personally, I don’t want to see a lefty bat with Thames profile added to the White Sox this offseason. His triple slash and high whiff rate resembles the failed experiment that Yonder Alonso promised the White Sox last winter and the latter was added as an ‘incentive’ to land pending FA Manny Machado. The White Sox have had enough low BA high SO hitters on their roster in recent seasons.
I want to see a more substantial upgrade this offseason for the open DH or RF spots. Despite being a right-handed hitter, JD Martinez would have been a substantial upgrade at DH. Another righty bat in Nicholas Castellanos would as well, a player this site has already projected going to the White Sox, albeit as their next RF and not at the preferred DH role.
Unfortunately the pickings are slim for quality lefty hitting free agent right-fielders this offseason. The White Sox may have to find their next core RF via the trade route or ‘settle’ for a decent right-handed hitting option like FA Yasiel Puig who truly profiles at the position with his bat and arm.
If all else fails, the White Sox can do worse than add switch-hitting catcher Yasmani Grandal to their catching mix of James Mccann and Zack Collins next year. Grandal would become the primary backstop in 2020 and beyond while McCann can catch Lucas Giolito and start versus most LHP starting pitchers in his final season of arbitration eligibility. Defensively challenged lefty bat Collins would be the third string receiver while backing up Abreu at 1B and garnering some PA’s at DH.
Where does Gregorius go?
He really got screwed by the injury.
Reds?
Can’t see the Smith deal at all. He now becomes MLB’s highest paid reliever, and unless he gets a multi-year for significantly more money, he’s essentially un-tradeable.
They must know what they’re doing, but……..
Should be no shock to anyone Abreu got tagged.
Hahn has no intention of signing him to a multi-year deal. Never did.
That’s b.s., especially since JR signs the checks. I fully expect Jose Abreu to be a White Sox in 2020 and am nearly as confident that relationship will extend beyond the coming season.
If a multiyear deal were on table, reinsdorf would have signed it, because he literally sees Abreu as family. This is All-Hahn trying to hedge bets.
Abreu: Market value – 2 years, $20 nilllion.
Most White Sox fans don’t give a rat’s behind about Abreu’s “market value”. His value to their franchise can’t be measured in terms of his worth to the 29 other teams. Fortunately the White Sox front office and owner Jerry Reinsdorf also recognize Abreu’s value to their organization which was not only demonstrated with the QO they tagged him with but also the likely 2-3 year contract they figure to ultimately agree upon this offseason or next.
Abreu EARNED every bit of the money the White Sox have paid him in salary over his first 6 seasons on the southside of Chicago. He EARNED his $16MM salary this past season and a class organization like the White Sox won’t insult the face of their franchise with a contract offer that everybody else thinks is an overpay.
Classy employers in any profitable business don’t offer salary cuts to employees who produce and are good citizens in and out of the workplace. I know you are old enough to appreciate this element but I fear that there are some younger fans here who don’t quite get it.
Abreu should take that QO and produce another decent year. Whether he gets an extension is up to him and the Sox. .
Sure theres some mushy headed sentimentality at play here. Jerry, for all the much discussed frugality, is a softie. So above market renewals and honors for the likes of Paulie, Abreu, and Harold Baines, anyone he treats like a son. And Dbags like Adam Eaton, Swish, and to lesser extent Sale, get sent out. But theres also an element of shrewd here. While they could nickle and dime Abreu to his expected future value, rewarding him for past performance is a savvy way of sending positive vibes to the likes of Moncada, Eloy and Lou Bob, who all look up to him as a papa. Wouldn’t surprise me if they bring back fan fave Yolmer, even though he’s well below $6 mill. The Sox arent ready to contend (yet). So why not throw some $ around?
Glad to see another commenter here who understands the full measure of Jose Abreu’s worth to his team beyond advanced statistics. Good for you!
In addition to the JD Martinez contract opt-in with the Red Sox I also expected the White Sox to tag Jose Abreu with a qualifying offer. The multi-million dollar question is will Abreu accept the QO in 10 days or reject it for a shot at free agency. I’m guessing that both sides will work diligently on a 2-3 year contract and if no deal is reached Abreu will accept the QO and remain with the White Sox for at least the 2020 season.
Think Abreu is willing to do anything he can to extend his stay, thus his “I’ll sign myself” comment. The camps prolly have an idea of what it’ll take, at this point Jose wants to be in the clubhouse celebration when the team is ready to contend, even if he’s a glorified player- coach in 3 yrs. And likely willing to sacrifice avg value in favor of length. The emptiest feeling would be to accept the QO and then walk, and then suffer in quiet purgatory somewhere like Baltimore or Miami while the kids he tutored go on a rampage
The Giants’ ridiculous decision to not trade Bumgarner and Smith getting closer and closer to looking as bad for them as not trading Harper did for the Nats.
Yeah, the Nats are crying right now.
They’d be crying less hard if they had J.B. Bukauskas and whoever else the Astros were offering instead of Tyler Dyson.
Seeing what the Jays got for Stroman I really don’t regret the Giants not trading him. Unless you have a report of an offer made for him at the deadline had a top 100 prospect involved I don’t think it’s a big deal
Nah, fam. Draft picks more valuable than “prospects”
The draft picks aren’t only the players, but the increased pool money. Farhan netted a couple
million straight cash along with the ✌️ CoMo picks.
Draft picks get you “prospects” as well. And not as good ones as you could have traded him for.
Will the 2 draft picks be better than what they could have received for 2 months of Bumgarner and Smith?
Not likely
How many damn people have to comment that they made a mistake about Rendon and the Red Sox!!!
but who comments on the commenters…
Astounding how many of these comments are about the Red Sox/Rendon error. Don’t people read the comments before they write?
Yankees decide not to risk committing QO to Didi. I wonder if they hadn’t been able to extend Chapman whether they would have made the same choice?
I think so. As I understand it, the Chapman deal does not change the payroll for 2020 (his salary is still $15MM). It changes payroll in 2022 (+$3MM: $3MM above the $15MM they paid him 2021).
The Didi decision was simple. At this moment he simply cannot be valued at $17.8MM. Not even close. He’ll need to re-establish his old level of performance before someone, including the Yankees, pay him that kind of money. He’ll either get that chance with someone else or the Yanks will re-sign him at much. much less.
Good response. It’s very hard to value him accurately.. Fangraphs thought he would get 3/48, but it’s presuming some degree of health and recovery,
Chapman’s AAV goes up and that affects their luxury tax payroll. Because he opted out and was signed to a new contract the average annual value is $17,466,667 compared to $17.2 million on the previous 5/86 deal. $266k is nothing to a team like the Yankees, but it’s still a little more. .
I’m not to sure the Sox would have given JD a QO because they are trying to cut payroll imo they would be fine letting him go for nothing
If he opts out of 3/$60m there’s no way he’s taking 1/$17m. There would have been no downside to QOing him if he had opted out.
Phils phanatic must be the Inspecter Javert of hipster analytics. Will not rest till Jean Valjean Abreu gets put away.
show me a post where i brought any analytics into anything.plz, since u feel the need to TRY to insult me. at least learn how to read before u flap ur gums
No worries, think we’re good now. Just a lot of commotion over a technicality. The Sox are valuing Abreu for past service and a future mentor role (possibly overvaluing but hey its not like they have payroll commitments). They’re going to sign him to a mutually agreeable multiyear extension. The QO just a formality. Much ado about nothing. All good?
i never disagreed really about any of that and he definitely has value(both on and off the field for them). the problem was the notion that he deserves it bc “he lead the league in rbi’s”
Yes, but putting down RBIs is low hanging fruit. Like discounting avg, saves or making Ike jokes. Almost anyone who visits this site gets this. Save your Ted Talk for the rubes in the Wrigley Field bleachers.
somebody has to try to educate them lol. believe it or not im not 100% in on all analytics either(not a big fan or wrc or fip to give examples)but i understand their place and realize that there’s now better stats to more define a players’ value that the “traditional stats”
5-7 guys one this list I wish the Braves could get. Of course I’m talking money we don’t have but it’s fun to dream. Rendon, cole, Wheeler, Strasburg, Bum, and Smith. JD if we couldn’t get Rendon. You could go a long way with those guys on your team … again, completely dreaming here
These free-agent articles are always fun, but the Tigers are not going to sign Puig. He would be a bad influence on the young players. If they need someone to show them how to get in trouble off the field. they can look to Miggy. Besides, the guy’s a punk and that won’t fly with fans in Detroit.
Every time I see the word Miggy it looks like Miss Piggy. LOL
Especially for Detroit considering the deal he has.
Abreu, Odorizzi, Ozuna, Smith, and Wheeler are idiots if they don’t accept.
Bumgarner and Donaldson would certainly be worth a draft pick and a higher AAV for a team that’s actually trying to win, but the reality is that Front Offices beat off to draft picks, so they should probably accept and try not to crash a motorcycle/hit .270 next year respectively.
Everyone else is worth $200 million so the draft pick thing won’t matter.
Wheeler would be an idiot to accept. He’s potentially looking at a 9 figure deal as the best consolation prize behind Cole and Strasburg. Even if he doesn’t break 9 figures, he’s a pitcher. Why would he risk an injury and losing all of that guaranteed money for “just” $17.8M guaranteed. 100% not worth the risk if he gets offered a reasonable deal.