We’re coming up on the three-year anniversary of the White Sox–Red Sox Chris Sale blockbuster. It’s tough to say either team regrets that deal at this point. Sale was instrumental in Boston’s 2018 World Series run and remains one’s of baseball’s best pitchers. Chicago, meanwhile, has reaped the benefits of a Yoán Moncada breakout season that saw him garner a down-ballot MVP vote. Michael Kopech, meanwhile, remains one of the sport’s most exciting young pitchers.
That pair (along with Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz) weren’t the only Boston farmhands the White Sox were targeting. At one point, Chicago asked for Rafael Devers, then a 20 year-old in High-A, Chicago general manager Rick Hahn tells David Laurila of Fangraphs. Suffice it to say, Boston has to feel good about rebuffing Devers’ potential inclusion, as he garnered even more MVP support than did Moncada after a breakout 2019 of his own. There’s no indication Devers talks ever got close, it should be noted, but it’s still an interesting counterfactual given the star player he has since become. Some more from the American League:
- Speaking of Kopech, Hahn tells Laurila the fireballer is progressing as expected in his return from Tommy John surgery. The 23-year-old, who went under the knife in September 2018, logged a few innings in instructional league and enters the offseason fully healthy, per the GM. The club will no doubt be careful not to overwork the prized right-hander next season, but he seems on track to be a key factor in Chicago’s rotation mix. Kopech had dazzled in Triple-A in the two months preceding his big league call-up.
- J.D. Martinez opted into his three-year, $62.5MM deal with the Red Sox earlier this month. Rob Bradford of WEEI hears that decision wasn’t an especially difficult one, “hardly coming down to the wire.” That seemingly reflects some tepidness among potential Martinez suitors as agent Scott Boras explored the star hitter’s market in advance of the decision. Speaking entirely speculatively, that could tamp down the likelihood of Martinez opting out after next season (at which point he’ll have to decide on a two-year, $38.7MM deal) or of the Sox finding a buyer if they look to shop Martinez this offseason as a means of cutting payroll. That said, Martinez remains an elite hitter, and other teams’ circumstances and interest can no doubt change in the coming months.
- The Rangers unveiled a new $12.5MM academy in the Dominican Republic Friday, reports Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. As Grant details, the facility is a significant step forward from previous conditions for Texas’ international signees. The Rangers’ front office believes that improving conditions for their youngest prospects will help them flourish on the field; current MLB first baseman Ronald Guzmán tells Grant that in the team’s previous cramped facility, illnesses spread among players quickly, which could no doubt have an adverse impact on players’ performance. Independent on any on-field benefits they’ll reap, the organization deserves credit for improving conditions for its players.
How much are the Rangers, and other teams investing in US inner city youth?
i heard something about a graduate of some program of that sort tied to the Rangers recently. either way though, if there was a health issue, they made the right choice.
I played ball in inner city highschool/ college ball in the US. And I volunteered at a youth sports camp in Nicaragua for a bit. It would surprise you how many kids per capita play baseball in Latin America, it really is crazy. In the US our inner cities play basketball. On that alone I wouldn’t bother investing in the inner city here. For some stupid reason, baseball in the US has turned into a rich man’s game. It’s sad, the days of sandlot ballplayers and stickball street games are fading fast.
The travel ball and weekend tournaments require two parents, time, and money. Things associated with the suburbs not the inner city.
I grew up in a small town and AAU literally was unheard of.
To play basketball or football all you need is to make it to school.
The White Sox have been very pro-active with their ACE inner-city youth baseball program (mlb.com/whitesox/news/white-sox-ace-players-sign-w…) which makes even more sense for them considering the location of their stadium on Chicago’s southside.
Knock, Knock – Reality calling……
MLB has invested in inner-city baseball programs for almost 50 years now. It was started not just to develop players, but to build lifelong fans that enjoyed playing the sport growing up and will continue to follow it.
The fact is that these programs have not taken hold much. Stereotyping an entire population of an area – and inner cities are hardly made up of only black people – is plain silly. MLB has tried and tried, doesn’t get much interest. They get sensational interest in Latin American countries, so they spend and expand more there.
Discussing ways to increase interest in inner city baseball programs after half a century is as much of a waste of time as discussing how to fix pitchers playing for the Rockies in Denver or why the Florida MLB teams don’t draw well. The market is what it is.
If any of that is true, which it’s not, than they should’ve doubled and tripled down.
@Chris44, minor correction: baseball is big in some, not all, Latin American countries. For some reason it took root in Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, DR. But in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras most people couldn’t tell it apart from cricket.
Baseball is big in Puerto Rico and played a fair amount in Mexico and Colombia. I’m not sure how popular it is in Panama but at least one HOF player came from there…Rod Carew.
The Rangers invested 14 million into a youth academy in West Dallas. 17 acres that included a minor league size ballpark.
They don’t have full time scouts, former players, and trainers just to name a few things in that facility.
Its for 8-14 year olds.
and they dont have a unicorn there. how much do you need?
Rangers do quite a bit of inner city investing in Dallas – particularly in the Osk Cliff area of town.
Just can’t do anything without criticism… Amazed you found a way to make this negative.
My question was not criticism. It was a legitimate question about not only the Rangers, but all MLB teams. The lack of investment and attention is reflected by the minute percentage of African Americans in the majors.
There are simply other sports people would rather play. A lot of options here in the states.
The youth find baseball is boring compared to the praise they get from football or basketball. Look at Muarry he had a signed contract to play baseball but weaseled out of it to take the NFL glory. Many teams has been trying to help out in poor communities but still the other 2 sports are more appealing.
Simply other sports people would rather watch, also.
How is Murray exercising his right of choice considered “weaseled out”, especially when he made it known?
The lack of investment and attention is reflected by the minute percentage of African Americans in the majors.
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Is there blame to be doled out that the NFL is 68% African-American and the NBA is 74% African-American? Where are the programs to increase the percentage of Latinos in the NBA?
I hate to bring logic into the conversation, but is it at all possible that the reason why there are less blacks in baseball, is because there are more blacks in football and basketball?
Or, God forbid, are elite black athletes making the logical decision that they stand a better chance in FB & B-ball, than baseball?
No
I think we knew your question is legitimate. I just wonder how many pros have come out of the inner city camps and stuff here. You also have to remember that the LA kids do not have highschool or college ball like we do. Its just different.
Poor people in this country just don’t get the opportunity to succeed at baseball. That is the problem and why it is largely middleclass or wealthy kids who make up US born MLB players
The lack of hispanic players in the NBA isn’t due to US born hispanic kids getting less opportunity than US born black kids
The lack of hispanic players in the NBA isn’t due to US born hispanic kids getting less opportunity than US born black kids
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Then maybe explain why there are almost no Latinos in the NBA, if they get the same opportunity?
The problem (in addition to what is noted above) is that the international facilities allow them to develop young kids they can sign to their own organization when they are as young as 16; for American players they will be subject to a draft. No organization is going to spend a lot to develop players who are then going to get drafted by a rival.
Teams do not develop intl talent at their own facilities before signing them.
Kansas City was about the 1st in modern times (40y back) in an attempt to try and develop kids from starting within their own general area that were not well off and get them thru some schooling, then develop kids thru a baseball regimen. They called it their Academy” and had multiple players hit the MLB level and succeed KC fans will know more of the ones who did, but “think Frank White was 1, and their good CF, who forget name of was 1 as well back then. i remember those kids traveling down to Haines City (close to where was/am) sometimes to the old baseball city complex that the royals trained at decades back with these kids during winter months on occasion.
Ron Washington was one of the others to come out of this. And I believe UL Washington was the third.
I know the Reds have a big program for inner city youth. They have a telethon for it during at least two games per year.
But you also have to look at the cultures. Latin kids love baseball and inner city kids tend to go toward football and basketball. Not all of them of course, but it is a majority. You can’t blame these organizations for going where the love is already instead of pouring money into trying to change people.
Makes for dirt cheap labor costs.
Latin kids love baseball
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Some of the posters want to be outraged instead of logical..
If y’all shut down the emotional parts of your brain, the logic speaks for itself. There were over 400 players in the MLB last year from foreign countries (ref BB-Almanac). The amount of these kids that play in the NFL are probably close to -0-. If 400 Latinos are playing in the MLB, that is 400 blacks kids that will not be.
The best facilities in the world won’t be nearly enough to offset the fact that black kids have 3+ sports that they engage in competitively, while Latin American kids have basically 2.
Latin kids have soccer which is by far the most popular sport in Central, and South America. There’s also Basketball, which is way more popular than baseball in Puerto Rico.
It might be more popular, but how many Puerto Ricans play in the NBA or NFL? Is it none? The point being that, Puerto Ricans are only going to take away baseball jobs from African-Americans, not football or basketball.
Everyone in the world takes away baseball jobs from African-Americans. No one takes away football jobs. That’s the reason for the discrepancy.
Do you even watch the NBA or the NFL?, yes. No one here is trying to say that the NFL and NBA aren’t way more popular than MLB with African Americans. Just that MLB puts so much more attention in poor Latin countries vs the US.
You might want to read Dave Winfield’s book, or talk to an older African American fan.
No. It isn’t.
“No. It isn’t.” To what?
Just that MLB puts so much more attention in poor Latin countries vs the US.
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I think you picked the perfect word-‘poor’ Latin countries. Past that, there isn’t much you can do. I like baseball a lot more than basketball. When I was growing up, there were 80 boys in my grade, and maybe 76 of them played some sort of baseball. But now, in the same neighborhood, baseball is a social occasion, and everyone plays basketball.
For better or worse, there is no comparison. Baseball doesn’t get you the juice that B-ball and FB does.
Getting a full scholarship as a baseball player is much more difficult than getting one as a football or basketball player.
Check out this info: mlb.com/whitesox/charities/youth-baseball
Last I checked we aren’t a 3rd world country. We are wealthy. We can help others and not be so greedy and hoard our wealth.
shut up! you share your wealth then
gotta believe another big factor is the number of people(kids in this case) u need to play a pickup baseball game as opposed to basketball and football as well
last offseason the Rangers spent millions of dollars on a facility for the youth in the area… so the answer is plenty
Teams will spend more on inner city youth when inner city youth show the dedication and interest to baseball that the Dominicans do
“If you build it, they will come”.
Parents are always looking for activities for their kids to do. Making baseball an affordable (or free) option for inner city kids will end up producing interest.
That’s ignorant.
Ok boomer.
There just isn’t enough black people in baseball to garner any attention to young black kids. Adam Jones said it best, it’s a white mans sport and the kids want to see people of their own skin succeed. So they go to basketball and football. It’s a legitimate reason. It’s always been this way and always will be. It is unfortunate but it’s the reality.
People who aren’t “woke” won’t get this, but…
It’s a clear policy of segregation. It seems certain entities want to keep different races/ethnic groups in this society separated. Sports, entertainment, radio—it’s all segregated to varying degrees. Hockey and baseball are marketed to majority white participation and viewership. Basketball is more accessible to urban black communities, while the football is the most popular sport in the south.
My kids’ B-ball team was 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Latino.
Most of what you wrote is nonsense.
JoeBrady has won the argument, none can oppose the indisputable fact that his kid’s b-ball team is 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Latino
ChiSox said it was a policy of segregation. Let me know if there is even one school in this entire country that won’t let a particular race play a particular sport. All the coaches care about is whether or not you are bringing them wins.
I guarantee JD and Mookie are on the opening day roster for the Sox. JBJ, Eovaldi, and to a lesser extent Price are the ones more likely to be moved IMO.
As for Chris Sale, I expect a bounce back season he’s a year removed from an elite year and given his contract I doubt he’ll be going anywhere either.
Oh boy! Did you ever follow Chris Sale during his days in a White Sox uniform?
Before or after he took scissors to his jersey?
Sale always pitched well in the first half and declined in the second half of the season when the White Sox made him a starting pitcher. Sale did a few stints on the DL while on the White Sox. The White Sox tried trading after his full season with the Orioles which was going to involve Bundy and someone else. That someone else was Machado and the Orioles said no.
The White Sox pitching coach, Don Cooper, tried working with Sale by throwing more change ups so his arm would not have been dead towards the end of the year. Sale refused to do that because he was about getting them strikeouts And his change up was an easy pitch to hit especially with left handed batters. Terry Francona always staked the Indians’ line up with four to five hitters on the left side since he knew Sale was going to only throw fastballs and sliders where they got to him by the fourth and fifth inning.
To this day, I was glad the White Sox traded Sale and received Moncada and Kopech in return. Moncada showed signs of a future star and possible MVP. Meanwhile Kopech showed his potential and that Tommy John surgery early in his career was a smart move for him.
To this day, I was glad the White Sox traded Sale and received Moncada and Kopech in return.
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As a RS fan, I’m pretty happy too. It was a good move on both sides, kind of the way it should be between the contenders and the rebuilders.
Lets face the fact that Sale dominated for the Red Sox in the first half in 2018 but he was not a big factor in the second half or the playoffs and World Series. Price stepped up for the Red Sox and acquiring Eovaldi were more important than Sale in 2018.
Let’s hope he does, love watching Sale pitch. When he’s on, there aren’t too many better.
Kopech should close. Sign Strasburg and Wheeler and Puig
I agree with Kopech being a closer if he can not develop a change up.
He has a change up. It’s not the greatest, but it just needs to be a show-me pitch.
His fastball/slider combo is devastating. He just needs better command.
If relies on a fastball and a slider while not using a change up as much as he should then don’t expect him to be a top of order pitcher. I know Kopech was using his change up in the minor leagues before being called up by the White Sox. Let’s say his numbers were not good!
He is an elite talent. You don’t just throw a guy in as closer who is projected to be an ace… look at Strasburg.. give the kid some time to develop.. if he proves he can’t handle the load then there are options in relief.. but to just throw that out there because he had tj and hasn’t maxed his development At age 23 and noticed pitching since he was 22 is a joke. He should come back stronger and ready. The kid works tirelessly!! You gotta give him a chance to prove himself.. You act like the sox are bad in the closer role or need help there.. that’s laughable with 2 guys more than capable already there.. look at the rotation besides giolito and cease it ain’t pretty. Lopez has skills but has yet to prove himself and stay focused. Rondon has more than just ligament issues.. he has a long list of issues health wise.. good luck with him returning in the regular season If you are counting on him as a rotation piece… so why not give the best pitching prospect in the sox farm, a projected 1-2 starter a chance to start? We still need to sign wheeler and another innings eater at a minimum.
Kopech as closer would make sense in his first season after TJ. They’d certainly have him on a short leash as a starter in his first year back, as far as pitch count is concerned.
But Chisox don’t really need a closer right now as much as they need quality starters.
My guess is that Kopech might be working out of the bullpen in 2020 to ease his way in the starting rotation. Again Kopech needs to work on his change up which he can do for the first few months.
I may have to defer to the experts here. Hahn says Kopech is 100%, but I don’t know if that means he can start right away, or if he should. I think everyone wants him starting, even if he’s a 4-5 inning guy for a while.
More ignorance. That would be comparable to the Mets deciding that Noah Syndergaard should be a closer when he was on the brink of making his MLB debut or even after a couple of seasons in their rotation. When a team has a young stud like Micheal Kopech or ‘Thor’ they roll with him until he proves he’s not cut out to be the ace or rotation piece they expected him to be. As a recent example, one only needs to see what transpired with Lucas Giolito from 2018 to 2019.
Sale remains one of the best pitchers in the game?? Huh?
The Red Sox don’t regret that trade at all. It absolutely helped them win a title. It’s the awful/unnecessary extension given to him that made no sense. That’s the part they already regret before it even kicks in.
Was thinking the same thing – extension is the regret. Sale trade already paid off with a title.
Sale’s one year removed from pitching to a 2.11 ERA and had baseball’s second-highest strikeout rate in 2019 (minimum 100 innings). I don’t think it’s a stretch to consider him a top ten starting pitcher still.
ale’s one year removed from pitching to a 2.11 ERA and had baseball’s second-highest strikeout rate in 2019
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What you are missing is the laws of physics cease to exist in Fenway Park, and that RS pitchers cannot recover from injuries.
A pitcher “pitches” to a batter. He “compiles” an ERA! I am so tired of this subpar English! No get off my lawn!
“awful/unnecessary extension” – umm, you have to pay elite players a sliver of the massive profits the teams make directly off Sale’s back?
It’s not your money, why take such a terrible viewpoint of this?
It’s not a “terrible” viewpoint. There was just no rush to give him that kind of money. He was coming off a 2nd half in 2018 where he lost a lot of velocity and was on the DL. He wasn’t the same guy he was before the AS Break. They should have waited to see how he responded coming into 2019. But Dombrowski didn’t wait. So they really do regret that contract. Especially since it might cost them Mookie Betts or JDM.
Wouldn’t owner Henry have had to approve the extension? And yes, the Red Sox are a cash cow but inefficient spending can’t be papered over when the Red Sox decide they MUST get below the tax line…..
It’s not your money, why take such a terrible viewpoint of this?
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Because a dollar spent on Sale cannot be spent on Betts?
I believe Sale had arm issues at the end of the 2018 season, and got lit up in his only start in the playoffs.
Sale was basically a 3rd/4th starter in the 2nd half of 2018. He was mediocre in the postseason as they won the title. His velocity was WAY down(8-10MPH) and he made multiple trips to the DL. Everyone was saying for years that he was a TJ candidate just waiting to happen. So what does Dombrowski do? Gives him a massive extension right at the start of 2019 before seeing if Sale was elite again. It was unforgivable. I doubt we ever see the Chris Sale from the 1st half of 2018 again. I hope I’m wrong, but I think that guy is gone for good.
I have been one of the many White Sox fans who did not like Sale. Sale wanted to use his slider too much to rack up them strikeouts. Cooper wanted Sale to start using a change up once in awhile so he did not have to overuse his slider. It’s been a fact throwing them sliders caused a lot of stress in the elbow since it’s a violent movement. That was why Sale dominated in the first few months of the season and declined after the All Star break.
He made three starts that postseason
If they never made the trade then they couldn’t have signed him to the extension. Very similar situation to Eovaldi.
Pretty simple: You can out a basketball goal up anywhere in a city, but a baseball diamond requires real estate that just isn’t there.
One area that would help us adopting some of basketballs methods, though. Elite high school hoops and football players go off to prep schools that are funnels to the elite college programs (Oak Hill Academy, Hargraves military, etc). There’s nothing like that for baseball.
Because elite baseball talent is allowed to go from the pros from high school. And that’s also not really true because schools like IMG academy certainly exist.
I believe they call it a hoop.
Semantics!
Not to mention you need at least one bat, and Ideally everyone has a glove, and a couple of baseballs. Football or basketball you just need 1 ball for everyone.
And in B-ball, you can play 1-on-1, 2-on-2, 3-on-3, etc. Or lone kid can show up at 7 in the morning to take 100 practice shot. And you can bring a ball to the basement or backyard to practice dribbling.
Baseball is a lot more complicated.
Doesn’t explain football.
Your comments reek of sheltered suburban white boy.
Please stop.
Your comments reek of sheltered suburban white boy.
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Born in the South Bronx and went to school in the South Bronx. Any more insightful remarks?
“Independent on any on-field benefits they’ll reap, the organization deserves credit for improving conditions for its players.” You’d think it’s the teams responsibility to do what best for there players so they can benefit from the players good health. Clearly it sounds like the conditions were far from ideal for people to work let alone work for a billion dollar industry. That doesn’t seem like the type of thing the rangers deserve credit for.
Listening to their players needs then making a substantial investment into it. How many good ideas have you taken to your boss only to see it end there? I don’t think a paragraph on a free site is too much credit to give an organization for a $12M investment in a country that’s been heavily linked to serious illness recently. Have you heard how many tourists/residents are becoming seriously ill after traveling to D.R.?
Yes I have and since I have I’m assuming the rangers who have millions of dollars invested in the country have for a long time too. They should be shamed for how they allowed there players to get sick and have a bad facility. Your telling me if this happened stateside that it wouldn’t be a huge deal? “MLB team allowing players to play in 3rd world conditions without the teams properly facilitating the proper worker rights.” – would be the headline. I don’t feel sorry for these billion dollar teams still treating there players in the minors like lesser people.
Seattle rebuilds a couple of diamonds around the area each year. The one I saw was a complete gut job the special dirt they use diamond dirt or something. Has the diamond dry and other things in it. They built bleachers and fences three whole thing. It was beautiful. The area took care of it for a couple years now the grass gets knee high then mowed a few times a year for the select team. I think more people use it to play frisbee and let the dogs ruin than baseball. You can’t make the kids play. The numerous articles I have read talk about football and hoops going from college to the Pros no minor league barely making a living stuff. That is why many of the youth choose other sports.
The White Sox Ace Program had more than 1,000 inner city Chicago participants in 2019 has produced more than 200 scholarships over the 7 years the program has been running. Twenty-eight players have been selected by Major League teams.
mlb.com/news/white-sox-ace-players-sign-with-colle…
the white sox have the ACE program, which gives 180+ intercity youths scholarship opportunities to continue their baseball dreams instead of becoming a part of the massive Chicago violence scene.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single response questioning the government’s role in this. My parochial HS doesn’t have two nickels to rub together, and they put out quality teams every year. Other cities have little to show for public school sports.
If you want better sports programs, demand additional property taxes to pay for them.
Yay, more taxes
Well, if folks want more facilities, they need to pay more money. My parochial schools manage all sorts of sports, and the local parents run non-school sports on top of that. Sometimes the answer lies within.
Or they need to manage their funds more efficiently. Publicly ran organizations reek of inefficiency. It’s truly awful. I have no desire to ever give more tax money to the federal govt. That sounds perfectly good in theory but not so much in real life.
In any event I don’t think additional tax money going to baseball fields is the best use of any additional public funding anyhow. Even if we pretend that it’ll get used in the most efficient away possible.
I understand that completely. But folks are complaining that there is not enough baseball opportunity in the urban areas. If they want more opportunity, they need to advocate for it, and pay for it.
In my neighborhood, we have ample park room. The city runs some of the BB fields, and they are in awful shape. The locals run a smaller BB field in very nice shape. The Irish groups run the FB fields (their FB, not ours), and they are in brilliant shape.
A Red Sox fan was elated to hear that a potential deal for Betts and Madrigal centerpiece was being discussed. From a White Sox standpoint, That will never happen! One year of Betts control giving up years of potential is not worth it unless Betts was that absolute-last piece needed to guarantee a playoff season. The White Sox have too many other holes to fill right now. There are other FA players The White Sox can obtain without sacrificing for a one year player.
I agree the WS should wait one moe year. They aren’t close enough. But I am not sure Madrigal had a ‘trend-up’ year. OPS was okay, but while I like K/W as a predictor, I also don’t want to rely on someone whose production is almost entirely tied to walks. That’s too easy to address in the pros.
Madrigal’s production isn’t even close to “entirely tied to walks.” It’s tied to his ability to put the bat on the ball – in addition to excellent speed and defense. The only reason 2019 might not be considered a “trend-up year” is because he did EXACTLY what made him an elite prospect to begin with.
Lil Nick, the moniker given by teammates including Eloy Jimenez, knows precisely what he offers to the league and he has zero qualms about the so-called expectation for second basemen. He is a highly anticipated player. And he was not a centerpiece in any talks anywhere or at any time, fake news.
Li’l Nick Madrigal was only a “centerpiece” in the prescient vision of MLB.com’s Richard Justice when he inadvertently looked into an alternate baseball universe but posted his thoughts in this one: mlb.com/news/mlb-offseason-potential-scenarios.
I too peered into that other universe and was not shocked to see Kenny Williams still calling all the shots as White Sox GM. What sucked was that Rick Hahn had become the Red Sox GM.
I can see the White Sox discussing it. I think they’d be foolish to agree to it, but Hahn isn’t doing his job if he’s not listening to offers.
As for Betts, I don’t want the White Sox to trade for him, even if they could find a deal they and Boston can live with. They’re not ready to compete unless they address their rotation in a big way (bigger than just Wheeler), so they’d waste those prospects and let Betts walk away for just a compensatory draft pick. I’d love for them to go all in on Betts next year if they strike out on Castellanos, but don’t want him via trade.
JDM’s thought process …. I know I’m not going to opt out ….. but I meed to think about that until the last minute.