Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred addressed the ongoing investigation of the Astros organization at this week’s owner’s meetings, ESPN’s Jeff Passan writes. The league began looking into the Astros on the heels of a report from The Athletic wherein four former employees, including right-hander Mike Fiers, detailed a practice in which the Astros utilized center-field cameras to steal pitch signs and alert the hitter to what pitch was about to be thrown.
“I’m not going to speculate on whether other people are going to be involved,” Manfred told reporters today. “We’ll deal with that if it happens, but I’m not going to speculate about that. I have no reason to believe it extends beyond the Astros at this point in time.”
In the past, both the Cardinals and Braves have been sanctioned under Manfred. The Cards were hit with a $2MM fine and lost their two highest draft picks when former scouting director Chris Correa illegally accessed the Astros’ proprietary database. The Braves were barred from signing international players for multiple signing periods and stripped of 12 prospects they’d signed after extensive violations of the league’s international signing rules were discovered.
Manfred declined to speculate as to the potential punitive measures that would be levied against the Astros organization, instead stating that any discipline will be dependent on “how the facts are established at the end of the investigation.” The commissioner wouldn’t rule out a repeat of those prior sanctions — loss of draft picks and international free agency restrictions — but also was sure to specify that his authority allowed a “broader” range of potential disciplinary measures. There’s no active timeline for the investigation to wrap up.
“Any allegations that relate to a rule violation that could affect the outcome of a game or games is the most serious matter,” Manfred said Tuesday. “It relates to the integrity of the sport.”
Make it stings!
Other teams most likely do it. Astros got caught. Now they’re gonna be made an example of. For good or ill.
Lame excuse. They did it. They got caught. Don’t water it down.
Where did I say what they did should be excused?
“Other teams most likely do it.” this is so cowardly. Name the teams or stfu. No other teams are doing it, the Astros did now the 2017 Astros are about to become the 1919 White Sox, strap yourself in, we’re about to see a lot of lifetime bans!
Found the guy who thinks this is on par with throwing games…lmao such a weak take. And yes other teams are utilizing tech to try and get a comparative advantage sweet child.
“No other teams are doing it”
No need to be so ignorant. There was literally a recent report that said teams were complaining about the Brewers and Rangers doing it as well. Let me guess, the only teams with pitchers using pine tar are the ones caught as well?
How do you know there are no other teams doing it? None of us knows one way or the other right now. And why was his statement that other teams are probably doing it cowardly? I don’t think you know what that word means.
Eight players from the 1919 White Sox were banned for life for conspiring with gamblers to throw the World Series. Putting a camera in center field does not come even remotely close to that. That’s asinine,
Umm the Yankees and Red Sox were both caught in 2017…. so there you go
I would have to assume the teams with poor hitting are not doing it.
It seems that you’re being quite naive by stating that no other teams are doing it because of the incredible proclamation, “no other teams are doing it.” That’s a pretty funny comment, if you’re serious.
I wonder if Jim Crane gets forced to sell the team. Wonder whats gonna happen with the other suit he has with Drayton, the previous owner. And he made a public shamble with Stephaine the reporter. I feel he has pushed the final button for MLB. He can’t be held in check. Got to go.
“And yes other teams are utilizing tech to try and get a comparative advantage sweet child.”
Using high speed cameras to manipulate spin rates is utilizing tech to get a comparative advantage. What the Astros did was straight up cheating. Other teams may be doing it, but let’s call it what it is.
Pine tar can be used by an individual, whereas stealing signs requires multiple co-conspiritors.
The more people in on the cheating, the more likely one of them has a strong enough conscience to come clean.
Well since the initial article stayed that the idea came from a veteran in his first year with the team, who did it with his previous team, I would say other teams are doing it.
Then when you look at the fact that the two new veterans were Beltran and McCann, and that they both came from the Yankees, it’s safe to say the Yankees were doing it too. So there you go.
That was not pine tar on Pineda’s neck it was a dirty smudge.
Uhhhm Yabks were not caught using electronic means. They were fined for using a phone in the dugout during the game. I hope you understand the difference. The Red Sox were fined for using electronic means though in an Apple Watch. So as I see it the Astros are the big cheater and the Red Sox should be looked into further but the Astros will be the example to every other team thinking of cheating to win like they have.
The Red Sox were litterally popped that same 2017 season for stealing signs with Apple Watches.
this is either the funniest remark or the dumbest
Well….the Rangers have been accused and they suck offensively so…..
Milwaukee does it
LOL Drama queen much?
You’re half right. The Red Sox got caught using an Apple watch as part of a scheme to steal signs. The Yankees got penalized for improper use of a bullpen/dugout phone to gain an advantage, but had nothing to do with sign stealing. Headlines at the time made it sound like they were stealing signs using technology, but if you read the statement from MLB, that wasn’t the case
Agree with Strike Four. Name the teams that “most likely” did it
Whether other teams do it or not is pure speculation. It’s pure speculation to say the Sox probably did it (since Cora came over and they were already predisposed to doing it) and won the ’18 Series that way. Maybe both the ’17 and ’18 Series were both stolen. But that’s pure speculation. All we can say is that the Astros did it. And they should pay big time so that no other team ever thinks about doing it in the future.
The Red Sox dominated that postseason
agreed… although probably not as sophisticated nor high tech.
But that’s how everything works in every segment of life. Nothing is illegal until you get caught, as the saying goes. Punishment is handed down for two reasons – revenge/punishment, and to send a message to anyone else doing the same thing to stop before you get caught.
That was my point, but as usual on this site many people have terrible reading comprehension
yeah. you’re the smart guy.
most teams may try from their runner on 2nd base, not with electronics. Not making a loud sound from the dugout on certain pitches.
Yeah, hopefully their signaling of the batter is a little less obvious…
Boo hoo the Yankees and the dodgers got cheated on with their unlimited payrolls wheee wheeeee, yes the integrity of the game is at stake but think about we’re so normalized to the fact that the big market teams can just bribe the best players to their teams , the Astros got creative and caught , end of story
expensive payrolls are not cheating. And btw, the Red Sox have the record. Signing a player to an expensive contract is not bribery. The Astros cheated (not creative) and got caught. Get a clue and grow up.
This is one of the dumbest responses I’ve seen on here, and for this site that’s saying a lot.
I worded my statement poorly but I am trying to state that us fans in smaller markets are use to unfair advantages in the game already outside the actual nine innings , all our players leave , the teams have to purposely tank to get better draft picks , get ridiculed on how they suck , when all the players go off the bigger well deserved paychecks to play for yearly competive teams , no the Astros don’t fit the mold of a “small” market And what they did was wrong , but I don’t feel bad for “yankees or dodgers” or the Red Sox? I’d feel bad for the Rays I mean it’s not like anyone in Tampa is even aware they made the playoffs probably
Would you feel better about it if the Astros only cheated vs. larger market teams?
Three things are still puzzling me about this:
One, that so few players are saying anything. They know what’s out there already, and they might even know more than we do. So why not save some face and help this thing along?
Two, the Houston Astros have a ton of corporate sponsors, or at least companies buying advertising space at the giant billboard in left field that so many home runs bounce off of. Do they believe it’s good for business to align themselves with a sports team that’s currently receiving such negative publicity?
Three, this one comes from my dad, as he and I have talked a bit about this lately. He asks me why he doesn’t see more of this on the mainstream news? CNN, Fox, NBC, CBS don’t have much coverage if any, and the stories seem privy to talk-radio shows and baseball specific channels and cable shows. This makes the scandal look even worse if MLB can’t capture some major network headlines. Is MLB dying?
The networks would rather cover the impeachment inquiries. Ironic when discussing proof and fact versus speculation.
I guess then it’s bad because they cheated the Rays also. Or do they have an unlimited payroll too. If a team blatantly cheats it is bad for the whole league but I guess your hatred for successful franchises precede your belief in a league that isn’t tainted by teams cheating.
Kind of like when Atlanta got slapped for their international activity. It was widely speculated their practices were largely industry standards, but they’re the ones who got caught.
Only about half of all murder cases are solved.
Literally, our entire system of justice is based on punishing the people who get caught and making examples of them.
Stupid take. Noone else has done it like the Astros. The made it an art form.
No…. Nobody else banged on a trash can
Interested to see what teams think is Fiers. I can’t imagine they will be lining up to sign a snitch. He could rat on them after they DFA him.
If that were to happen(him not being signed because he blew the whistle), the MLBPA might file a grievance against MLB.
Fiers is a hero for what he did, shame on you.
2017 Astros are going to be the 1919 White Sox. Altuve, Correa, Bregman, all gone forever. The title will have an asterisk. All Astros fans deserve this.
Fiers was on the 2017 team and will receive no special treatment. A lesser suspension (1 year) because he was fortunate enough to get out of that hell hole.
No, he was a willing participant until it didn’t benefit him anymore. He’s on a division rival now and that’s the only reason he said something.
Bruh have you not seen his pine tar glove…everyone tries to work the system.
LMAO cry me a damn river, while you’re at it haha
“All Astros fans deserve this”
You mean the organization deserves it. Unless the fans collectively stole signs from teams competing against the Astros, I don’t see any reason they (Astro Fans) should be punished for anything in regard to this.
The Astros fans shouldn’t be punished, but part of what makes the cheating gross is they will be.
The franchise’s first World Series has an asterisk and fans will take the flack whenever they wear ’17 championship gear. It’s as unfair to them as it is to opposing teams. It tarnishes their pride in a way they had nothing to do with, but still can’t erase.
It’s a cheat to the fans as much as it is a cheat to the game on the field. It all but takes the metaphorical ring away.
Lock them up!
Moron
Lmao in 2017 alone two teams were caught sign stealing with electronics in the Red Sox and the Yankees so I’m not sure how you can reach this idea
Yankees didnt get caught stealing signs at all. Not saying they didnt do it. But they didnt get caught. The bullpen phone thing is nowhere near this. Keep lying to yourself. Astros fans like you are desperate and pathetic
LOL, another drama queen post. You must be a Yankees fan. You know, the team the Astros destroyed two of the last three postseasons.
Fiers first started talking about it because his NEW team was playing the Astros. Pretty sure what he did was intended to protect his team.
These are the sanctions I would like to see in order to be able to trust MLB after this.
1. Any players found to be responsible in this need to be suspended an appropriate amount of games, determined by Manfred.
2. Any coaches aware need to be suspended from the league for a minimum of one year.
3. Any team personnel involved need to be hit with an appropriate fine.
To be honest, I’d like to hear from players on the Astros, which won’t happen. Specifically, I’d like to hear from Jose Altuve. In my mind, this puts a huge asterisk on his career.
As a Yankees fan, of course I’m furious. But I love baseball, and this whole situation is infuriating.
Dont mention the fact that he hit 50 points better on the road. And definitely dont mention, 5 out of their top 6 guys hit better on the road than home that year. Should we asterisk Jeter bc he played on a team that used organized cheating?
Okay, I wasn’t questioning his ability? I’m saying that he was involved/aware of the situation and is a leader of the team? I would also be super interested in your idea of “organized cheating”.
Well, they got the whole idea from Beltran or McCann, who used it with their previous team……so maybe as a Yankee fan you shouldn’t be so furious and judgmental.
your comment lost all of its credibility when you mentioned Altuve in specific. Id like A-Rod to appologize for being part of the 2009 WS team that beat Philly, but guess what? im not going to harp on it. you wonder how much less vitrol there would be in the comments sections if these Stros didnt play against the Yankees.
Steroids don’t help you know what pitch is coming, A-rod is nowhere near as bad as what the Astros did.
Actually what A-Rod did is worse. He vehemently lied about what he did after doing what he did for most of his career.
It’s true
@DTD_ATL
A-Rod ADMITTED it, unlike Ortiz.
A-Rod cost the Angels a chance to play the Phillies. I wont’ watch ESPN baseball because ESPN should be able to do a lot better than A-Rod.
Agreed, A-rod crushed the Angels that post season, including a walk off HR.
We had bad luck running into the biggest roiders of that era: A-rod, Papi, Manny, each of our best years.
It was probably karma. The 2002 Angels are believed to be possibly the biggest collection of roid users assembled on one club.
darkstar, that might be the most ignorant take of all time. Although I Donnelly, Spiezio and Fullmer were taking steroids, they were playing the 2002 Giants. The 2002 Giants.
Let me repeat.. The 2002 Giants. And if that means nothing to you, then you are just proving my point.
I’m sorry if it bothers you, but you may want to actually look it up. Glaus and Schoeneweis were pretty open about how steriods were used, and things like the team continuing using them even after the new testing seeing as the penalties were so weak to start. The pitching especially was believed to almost all be using
They didnt have the most high profile users, but it is believed to have had the most users of any club
You’re showing your ignorance again. Schoenweiss pitched two innings of that series in a blowout game. As for Glaus, he did take PEDs and we know when he took them 2004. He took them to rehab an injury.
Yes, he’s still a cheater, He took them in 2004, not 2002. We have the audit trail. And we are talking about the 2002 Giants. The most documented cheating team of all time.
By the way, it’s just my opinion that Fullmer, Spiezio and Donnelly were on PEDs. No evidence.
Schoenweiss paperwork starts in 2003.
Glaus was also 2003. And it’s very well documented. He admitted it.
Glaus said he stopped using steroids at the end of August 2004. He returned to the lineup for the final 29 games and hit seven home runs, then he hit two more in the Angels’ three-game loss to the Boston Red Sox in the A.L. division series.
“We had bad luck running into the biggest roiders of that era”
They weren’t the “biggest roiders of that era.” They were just the best baseball players on steroids – and I’d be willing to bet the list of those players is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than we “know” (and it probably includes multiple players on your beloved Angles).
Ahh yes, that’s right, all the Angels merely started cheating immediately after their greatest moment. Convenient story there, they give.
Yes, we know that they received a new dealer in 2003. We also know it was used widely by the club prior to that, and that that is the club players point to as the highlight club of steriod users.
That’s why it is no surprise when you see a full 20% of players in Mitchell report having been Angels. It is extremely well known by most, other than the people that I guess just really, really wish it wasn’t the case
We are talking about 2002. You brought up 2002. So we have a federal investigation against the Giants with the biggest document steroid abusers in baseball history.
Keep proving your ignorance.
Priggs89
I know you are not talking to me. Every team likely had cheaters. Most players were never caught.
However, the people who got caught, deserve some animosity thrown in their direction, fully knowing that all cheaters were not caught.
If you think Glaus only took ‘roids for an injury in 2004, and only 2004, you are the ignorant one.
It’s like believing A-Rod only took them between 2001 and 2003 in Texas. Suuuuure.
Although you may be seeing red at this point, Mac, you are correct with your take on the 2002 Giants. That cannot be refuted.
Not seeing Red. Even Wally Joyner took steroids The only player I can safely say didn’t take PEDs was David Eckstein. And that’s only because after his playing days, he was going to give away one of his kidneys. But with the 2002 Angels, it’s all speculation.
As you know, with the 2002 Giants, there was a Federal Investigation, audit trails, paperwork, journals, indictments, arrest, perjury charges, testimony, admissions and a book written. Speculation not necessary. That’s why I thought his comment was one of the most ignorant I’ve read on this board.
I didn’t question that A-Rod is awful? I think I’m still the only one that boo’d him in the wild card game at Yankee stadium a few years ago. He cheated his way to 300 million, but that’s an individual cheating. This threatens the entire league, and dozens of people were in on it.
To reiterate, A-Rod is awful, and I was embarrassed to have him on my team.
@Brandon the steroid scandal was also organized cheating. It was well known and encouraged by management to boost team performance/ratings
@Astros44
Absolutely zero proof of anything like that ever happening.
Just face it, your team is the only one, at this point, to be involved in “organized cheating”. As if the other bad press they generated during the WS wasn’t enough to quiet Astro’s fans yet
If they have statistical evidence and other methods to determine the Astros have cheated for the past 3 years, then I would be fine with 3 year suspensions on all participating players. Coaches and management staff? Gone like Donkey Kong.
In on it? How is a player supposed to ignore it? Go to meetings and play with a blindfold and earplugs?
Agree with DTD_ATL on this one. All players and coaches were in on it. You couldn’t be in that dugout and not know.
There is a photo of Altuve walking by the dude taking down the cheat TV after one of the 2017 WS games. Plus all the Jomboy stuff. It looks like they were all in on it.
Gotta strip Altuve’s MVP and Silver Slugger. Springer’s too.
MVP is awarded by the BBWAA, so MLB has no say. And based on precedent, the BBWAA isn’t stripping anyone.
What’s precedent for this as far as the BBWAA is concerned? If you’re thinking of Ryan Braun, that’s in individual case. Large-scale team-wide cheating seems like uncharted waters.
I like Brandon’s idea for sanctions.
Okay so in other words your saying apply current rules to a prior situation? That’s like letting the people who took steroids in the 90’s off. Truly it was the Wild West in 2017 with electronics rules did not cover this much in depth so idk maybe learn some rules to the game first?
I know learning rules can be hard but like what’s been said Altuve hit better away than at home
Why from Altuve? He was an established superstar before the cheating began. In 2016 his offensive WAR was second in baseball only to Trout.
I’m more concerned about:
Carlos Correa
2016: .274/.361/.451
2017: .315/.391/.550
Josh Reddick
2016: .281/.345/.405
2017: .314/.363/.484
Marwin Gonzalez
2016: .254/.293/.401
2017: .303/.377/.530
And Breg
Who all hit better on the road than at home. But that doesn’t fit the narrative so we’ll just ignore it.
Why Altuve? Because he’s been the well known leader of that team for years. He’s a HoF candidate when he retires. And even if he didn’t send signals or receive them, he participated in the situation.
Were you “furious’ when the yankees got caught stealing signe?
They didn’t though.
Who cares about facts though right?
I have zero idea what you’re talking about. Please link it.
Those other violations didn’t directly relate to on-field advantages to the team. I’d expect these penalties will be severe, fines, draft picks, and suspensions. Like is this worse than what Pete Rose did (bet on his own team winning)? I say this is worse and he got a lifetime ban.
certainly taints achievements by players like Bregmann and Altuve.
Good call, this is WAY worse than what Rose did. Haven’t seen that take yet but its spot-on.
Obviously the Cards and Braves punishments were so terrible considering they both won their divisions this year.
i dont think the point was to make the teams permanently irrelevant. im not sure any of the owners would have been fine with that precedent.
The Cardinals didn’t gain any advantage on the field or for that matter much of anything for what one person did
The Cardinals were just checking to see how much information Luthow stole when he went to Houston. Apparently a lot considering how quickly they turned into a World Series contender from irrelevance.
Fine, draft pics, move on.
This feels a lot like the baseball version of the US government versus file sharing. not sure they’re as up-to-date as they need to be to get out in front of things like this.
File sharing is not the same as “beating the hell out of your opponents because you know what pitch is coming”
i agree, using a video to predict a pitch is not the same as potentially compromising national security.
File sharing was a Napster music download thing, not a national security thing.
Not just “beating the hell out of your opponents because you know what pitch is coming”, this is DEFRAUDING your opponents, their fans and MLB. Millions of dollars were pocketed by this fraud. They should be arrested for felonies.
#FreeHinch
I did some extensive research about this, and the Yankees are cheating too. In an article about this, the article said that a player that the astros signed in the off season before, told a coach about the cheating method that he used with his last team and the coach accepted it. In the article, it stated that it was a player that had a poor previous season, and the astros then signed him. The article kept the player’s name anonymous, but the player was Brian McCann. The previous season with the Yankees McCann slashed .242 / .335 / .413 , a pretty poor season for a former all star. And he signed with the Astros the year of the cheating… mic drop…
McCann didn’t sign, he was traded. Beltran, on the other hand, did sign and he has been named along with Cora asthe two most responsible for it.
Pffft.
Brian McCann is likely a sore spot for adoring Braves fans, but he is guilty and I bet Atlanta has an investigator show up, at least to say hi.
McCann adoring Braves fan here. Yep. It hurts. I dont want to believe it but I can’t think of a better explanation for his home road splits for the 2017 world series.
You can sew them here:
google.com/amp/s/www.12up.com/amp/posts/astros-hom…
I’d honestly prefer it if they kicked the Astros, Braves and Cardinals out of the league altogether. Those three teams fanbases honestly deserve it for how they act online lol
only if the Yankees join them. makes it even at least.
Oh boy!!! Strike Fourtnite with another hilarious zinger! Your mom should drive you to the closest comedy club and drop you off
I wish they’d kick you off this site. You never contribute anything remotely constructive.
Ah, so this is the reason for all your little girl whining. You don’t have the strength of character to actually be a man. You allow people online to affect your life.
That explains it.
Vacate the championship.
You going to vacate the wins and championships of every team that has roiders? How about pitchers who doctored a ball?
If it was an organization wide policy to take roids and doctor balls I would absolutely be for vacating those wins and championships.
the rampant steroid use was well known throughout the organizations
The most appropriate punishment would be to make the Astros batters wear blindfolds during home games.
now that’s a punishment we can believe in
They’ll still be able to hear if its a fastball or offspeed. ha.
Instead, a public junk punch for all guilty parties. Or a dunk tank filled with used syringes.
In addition to appropriate fines and suspensions, the penalty that MLB should impose is that the Astros get no home playoff games for two years. Since they demonstrated that they cannot be trusted not to cheat, they should lose the privilege of home games in the postseason. So, if they make the ALCS, all 7 games on the road!! I think this would do the job of making sure nobody risks this type of cheating again.
Not trying to defend the Cardinals but maybe we now know why they were paranoid about the Luhnow led Astros.
This is fraud which has caused the losses of millions of dollars.
Why isn’t there a criminal investigation. And for the people here on visas, why are they not revoked.
This is beyond baseball. What other stage in America can you commit this kind of fraud and not be criminal culpable.
Come on
Like how far of a rabbit hole do you want to go down? Every team caught cheating or that has players cheating gets criminal investigations against them for fraud? So we’re having 30 investigations going on at once?
I have a disdain for cheating. It took an act of congress to get drug testing in baseball. Baseball wont police itself, the players union is too strong. Something has to be done.
I’m open for suggestions.
Hat tip for your enthusiasm on the subject. I too loathe cheaters ruining the integrity of the game. Not sure a criminal investigation is feasible, but really hoping Manfred brings the hammer down on these bums. As a fan of the game, I’m completely disappointed. If I had someone telling me what pitch was coming, I’d be getting ready for spring training instead of writing this.
We could have Goodell hand down punishment. He seems to be all over the place and pretty harsh.
Sarcasm off
I think some are a bit to gung ho on severe penalties. There should be an investigation FO personnel should probably get a year. The owner if he knew a year. The players a few weeks staggered so they can fill out a line up. Not all payers I am sure some where not happy about it but what could they do? Maybe the players watching and giving signals. This comes from an Ms fan who has to watch our team play them.
I have respect for the way they built the team mostly home grown with a few FAs in there. They seem to be running out of all the great home grown guys. That is what sucks about winning your don’t get the top pick anymore. I hope Manfred is quick on this so we can argue about the penalties not being enough or too much. Lol
Sarcasm back on kind of
Can we suspend the Yankee fans because we don’t like the team or fans. This is not jealousy it is good ribbing between fans. No but truly nobody likes you not even fans of your team. Lol
OH and the players don’t like the fans either.
I brought this up in the previous article about the $10s of millions they stole if this actually happened. I’m in total agreement with you. Personally I don’t think MLB should be investigating this as it is should be a criminal investigation not a league investigation based on (if they did this) the money stolen and the VISA issues you raised I didn’t even think of, what a mess! Fiers and others making the allegations need to testify under oath in front of a grand jury, not interviewed by the commissioners office.
It’s sad if this truly happened, as a baseball fan the 2017 World Series I thought that was one of the best series I’ve watched in a long time.
As an Angels fan I would also be ticked Trout was potentially robbed of another MVP trophy.
Was this going on in 2015. If so, they deprived the Angels of a playoff spot.
Good point, I hope this didn’t happen
Stop about who they deprived of playoff spots. They didn’t deprive Seattle of a spot because we weren’t good enough to get one before they switched to our division. I don’t get to claim it so you all should stop. Lol
The Astros did not break the law, they violated MLB rules. You can’t put someone in jail or sue for fraud for what they did, they can only be punished by the MLB.
If they did what they did, yes they did break the law. There is 10s of millions of dollars they would have stolen from their cheating. If they did it they stole money from the MLB, players, etc. It is criminal. If you stole $20 million from your company, it would be criminal. MLB is not above the level and MLB rules do not protect individuals from federal, state, or local laws which if you fraudulently stole money you should and would be prosecuted. The huge amount of money involved is a felony amount this is not a misdemeanor offense.
Actually the MLB is above the law because it has an antitrust exemption that was awarded in 1922…
“The antitrust exemption, first granted by an appeals court in 1922 and then unanimously affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court, holds that MLB is exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act because it was a state-centric business and not subject to federal commerce laws”
Baseball can fine a team whatever it feel appropriate to make up for the loss of potential income for another team.
The antitrust exemption has nothing to do with the fact that MLB is business consisting of 30 owners. None of them are going to have any of the others arrested. They are going to address this internally. The commissioner’s real task is making it look right to the fans.
They committed fraud. They stole from pitchers, teams, owners, fans. Are you saying the 1919 black sox only broke baseball laws?
Did Altuve and other Astros players that season walk up to you and other fans, hold ya’ll at gun point, and say “Give me all the cash you got on you?”
People say they love the sport of baseball and yet they want a criminal investigation to occur. Right ok. Yeah, no that’s not gonna happen. Like Bruce said, they didn’t break any laws. Otherwise a criminal investigation would already be underway.
Its not against the law for the Astros to have their own camera in centerfield to seal signs. It is against the MLB rules, therefore only the MLB can apply the proper punishment. I don’t believe any of the opposing teams would have a fraud claim against the Astros.
The 1919 Black Sox is a different case. The players conspired with the mafia to fix games, which is illegal. Therefore that could be con-screwed as fraud or possibly even racketeering.
Yes
Keep in mind, all 30 teams in MLB are in business together. Who is going to press charges? Who is going to file the lawsuit? No, this is why the game created the office of the commissioner after 1919, to keep the game clean. It’s time for him to do his job and protect the best interests of baseball.
But Pete’s still not in the Hall…shame, shame.
no reason anyone should be barred from the hall of fame. let the voters chose who they want to chose. i think even purists would give a pass if he wasnt overtly barred from the hall.
Well said
I guess Rose shouldn’t have agreed to that lifetime ban then.
Bingo. Pete Rose was given the choice to accept the ban and stop the investigation into him. He accepted. Anyone who complains about Rose not being in the hall, should bring it up with Rose himself.
Astro’s are Going Down.
This could be a Black Sox Scandal. Depending on how much information related to the cheating comes out. There will be fines. Draft picks. I don’t think any stripping of titles. But a major black mark on that organization, as should be, for years to come.
They blantly took advantage using technology. A big no no. And the whole infastructure knew about it. Big Levies are Coming.
And probably change the sport. As other teams will probably be involved too.
– Or, there are so many teams and issues at hand. That MLB, sweeps it under the rug with light slaps. We’ll See…
This issue of stealing signs and cheating are likely going to be hard to prove and that’s why Manfred was non committal on who may have been involved, any punishments to be handed out, any rule changes expected as a result of this situation or if other team(s) may have been involved in doing this as well.
Perhaps they may make this an assignment of umpires to watch for these types of violations in the future.
Even if no one is found guilty I suspect monitoring this situation will become more of an issue going forward.
@SG…
To be honest, I don’t think this is an issue that will be hard to prove, at all. There’s already a decent amount of evidence that we’ve been made aware of (and I’m sure there’s evidence we haven’t been made aware of yet as well). It will be interesting to see what the findings of the investigation are when it’s all said and done… and what penalties will be levied upon the Astros organization as well.
Put an asterisk next to their 2017 WS Championship!
There was a tremendous amount of debate over putting asterisks next to the steroid crowd of the early 00’s and this is no different – cheating is cheating and that’s probably the most fitting punishment you could get.
And the elephant in the room that almost no one has commented on – what does this mean for A.J. Hinch. Could he be fired? One of the best managers in baseball that maybe took it too far?
People are only talking about what the MLB will do to the Astros as a team. I mean it’s hard to imagine Hinch didn’t know what was going on. This is probably the most interesting thing yet to happen, what happens with their management team…because this type of cheating reeks of dugout shenanigans.
It doesn’t matter if the league attaches an asterisk to it or not.
It will forever be a tainted WS Championship.
Every time that team is talked about, this cheating scandal will be brought up.
Everybody knows it. Even Astros fans.
You need that asterisk to denote its significance otherwise future generations will just gloss over it. The Astros don’t deserve to be let off that hook.
And they absolutely cheated this year as well – definitely in the ALCS. I digested those 6 games thoroughly, and remember none of this news came out until after the WS and before that I even commented on here about some of the “incredible” and unusual plays the Astros were making that changed the entire dynamic of that series. I said there were plays – taking bases, etc that just seems so unlikely and timed perfectly that maybe I equated it with really good baseball, but perhaps something more sinister was in play. Say what you want and we’ll all have different opinions, but I felt the Yankees were the superior team and should have won that series.
In case you didn’t realize, steroids and drugs were used long before the early 2000’s! There was always a huge debate in baseball about Mantle and Maris trying new drugs in ‘61! Hence why they covered up Mantle getting a tainted injection which caused him to miss three weeks because of infection in his hip. Steroids and cheating didn’t just start. If they let the Astros ride with this, they should let every roid freak from the ‘90’s to now get a free pass. Just simple.
Baseballfreak, you remind me of a paper I wrote once about how either ped users should be let into the HOF due to Pud Galvin and Gaylord Perry (cheating is cheating and Gaylord used spitballs) being in or take Pud Galvin and Gaylord out due to ped users being kept out due to writers.
MLB may need to publicly punish the Astros and have a separate set of punishments that are private. MLB should come down hard on the Astros in a manner that matches what happened to SMU but thinking about the average fan, Astros fans in this instance, they may want to try and satisfy all parties with this 2 tiered punishment system. If I was a fan and knew that my team couldn’t make the playoffs for 3-5 years due to punishment or have any off season excitment, I may elect to tune out. Just my take…
how does secret punishments sustain the integrity of the league? that is, after all, the main issue here.
I assume the punishment should be so severe some of it may need to be private so to not turn off the fans base in Houston completely
as punishment , Angel’s get Verlander and Grienke:)
…but the Astros still pay their salaries.
And Fiers sits at home eating cheese, like a good rat.
And where have I heard that logic before? Oh yeah, from felons. Nice company you keep.
All Astros player and team trophies into the smelter.
Wait, all players?
*team and player’s trohpies awarded during the period in question, into the smelter.
Gracias
Nice. I figured murdering the players via an archaic methodology of tempering iron was a tad harsh.
@Rallyshirt
It was perfectly understandable the first time, btw.
I know dude I was obviously joking.
I too was having fun saying “into the smelter” again. 🙂
Well they will definitely have to investigate the 2018 bosox too
Def. also they should investigate any coach or manager who’s watched any Astros games or ever owned a Ken Caminitti rookie. Time to weed out all the players and teams I don’t like. This will please me.
they should investigate every team now just to make sure this doesnt happen again. an ounce of prevention…
Mike Fiers is a rat
You sound like an inmate. Are you?
p.s. he’s a hero.
People’s over the top outrage is always entertaining haha
I’d forgotten about Manfred’s previous disciplinary actions. Those are both very stern. Gives me hope he’ll use an appropriate level of discipline here.
Lunhow and Hinch have to be removed from baseball in 2020, at least.
…due the smashing trash cans tipping his pitches.
People talking about how this cheating could have been a detriment to opposing pitchers in regards to lost earning potential, demotions, being released, etc due to poor outings vs Houston got me wondering: If the league punishes them (which is basically ruling they were guilty) I wonder if above said pitchers would have any type of legal recourse against the Astros organization. It may sound outlandish but we see people dragging companies into civil court daily over nonsense.
This isn’t nonsense. This is massive fraud worth millions.
Astros = Patriots both cheaters
Honestly, the league will make an example of the Astros, and I’m ok with that, but anyone here saying their team hasn’t done something anyway similar is naive. Up until 2019, guys could watch the game from the clubhouse with no delay. Of course everyone was doing something.
Statistically speaking the Astros were a better road team than home team in 2017, so whatever advantage they gained was probably more psychological than tangible.
All of that being said, the Astros have been Mavericks in the eyes of most baseball establishments, and thus most recent flub, as well as the horrible way they handled Taubman, they needed a wake up call, and it’s coming.
A fine, a few 10 game suspensions for those involved, with the forfeited money going to some charity that promotes baseball for inner city youth and lets put this behind us. There are far more important decisions to be made, like putting the kiebosh on the plan to contract MILB, changing the FA and arbitration eligibility to be more fair for younger productive stars, and the MLBPA finally walking away from the sub-par leadership of Tony Clark, who is about as good at negotiating as he was hitting a fastball.
They were not a better road than home team in the postseason! Yanks went 3-0 at home vs. Houston, then lost all 4 games in Houston. Several of those games were very close and knowing what a pitcher was going to pitch could certainly have tipped the balance in at least 1 of the 4 Yankee losses in Houston! I am sick and tired of everyone that wants to minimize this by saying “everyone was doing it.” Prove it! For now, it is just the Astros that were doing this and there is no reason to simply assume everyone was doing it.
The Astros HIT better on the road than they did at home……not played better. It is a fact that the Astros hit better on the road in 2017.
But remember: the Astros obviously cheated people of millions of dollars.
Not true. All stadiums have a tunnel between the clubhouse, or locker room and the dugout. If you’re suggesting some sort of sign relay team, which could happen, here’s where it fails.
There is not enough time between the pitch call from the catcher and the pitch being thrown to support any bucket line theory.
Everything else you wrote is frankly an insult to charities.
Fine them same amount as YANKEES got for having 18 steroid users on 1998 team. Js
For those who haven’t seen Jomboy on Boomer and Gio
youtube.com/watch?v=nayl98fB6Ng
I believe the proper punishment should start by stripping them of the 2017 championship. I’d rather have no champion that year, then a team that cheated to win. Its tainted, and they don’t deserve it (even with an asterisk).
I think the loss of 2 first round draft choices, and two years of no international signings. Plus 2 year suspensions for anyone in management proven to be involved, would be appropriate.
And finally for me personally, they need to remove all the 2017 WS highlights, that they continually showed in between innings on MLB.tv. As a Dodger fan, I had to endure all of 2018 seeing the highlights of them cheating.
The punishment needs to be serious enough to discourage other teams from trying to steal signs in the future.
Imagine being an Astros fan and you go out in public in an Astros jersey and some one calls your team a bunch of cheaters. As it true as that may be, they’re still your team so you still support and represent them. Stripping the Astros of their championship would only make it worse. I totally understand you feel cheated. However, you can severely punish the Astros without taking away that which Astros fans have been waiting a while to see their team finally accomplish, tainted or otherwise.
“However, you can severely punish the Astros without taking away that which Astros fans have been waiting a while to see their team finally accomplish, tainted or otherwise.”
Nah. I don’t care how long they waited. The Astros cheated their way to a World Series. If the title gets stripped (which I believe it should), the Astros are the only ones that should feel bad for their fans. This is 100% their fault.
If you feel that way then more power to you.
Go weep those tears in you own beer, pal. Do I need to tell you again why this is so completely wrong?
Yes, since they won game 7 in LA, please tell me how they didn’t deserve it.
Since the Astros batted better on the road in 2017, please tell me how they benefited from this exactly.
As an Astros fan, I will wear my 2017 WS shirt proudly. Idgaf what anyone else thinks.
Not only that, I am going to enjoy all the whining and crying on this site, especially from Strike Four, when the punishment doesn’t live up to y’all’s ridiculous expectations.
What would really be enjoyable though, is if Beltran and McCann went the Mike Fiers route and mentioned they brought this over from the Yankees and then the Yankees get pulled into this and receive the same punishment as the Astros. Haha
Lame rationalizations count for nothing. I’m just going to repost what I wrote in another thread because applies here just as well.
When two games are decided by one hit it’s perfectly reasonable to question how the outcome would be different if the winning team wasn’t cheating. I don’t know in what universe this is not true. I’d also like to think that if my team had finally delivered a long overdue championship and I’d found out that they were cheating that it would subtract substantially from the legitimacy of the championship and I wouldn’t be able to muster any defense for it. I’d also like to think that wouldn’t able to spend another nickel of my own money on that team until everyone associated with the cheating was gone. I’d also like to think that I wouldn’t be rationalizing the way you seem to be.
(cue the crickets)
What am I supposed to respond to? You gave your opinion, which idgaf about.
And, you have zero proof they used this technology in the playoffs, let alone the World Series, so why should I care?
I can see you don’t care. Next you could try reading.
So if suspensions happen to guys like Cora and Beltran and others no longer on the Astros, their current teams will pay the price for the Astros’ wrong doing. That might be hard to navigate for Manfred.
There needs to be some sort of a punishment. If it affects other teams, so be it. If somehow a player did steroids one season to get a big contract, and signed with a new team, he would still have to serve the suspension.
I agree. That’s just a poop sandwich.
Post season ban, Loss of draft picks and life-long ban of those involved should suffice.
I mean Pete Rose isn’t in the Hall for betting on games and didn’t even cheat
Post-season ban is not gonna happen at all. It’d be ridiculous if it did.
Post Season and lifelong bans?!?! You online do-gooders are hilarious
A post-season ban doesn’t make sense. The reason why you play the regular season is to have a shot at the post-season. You might as well just ban them indefinitely if you don;t want them to play for a championship.
If you want a less crazy idea but is still crazy? Penalize the Astros by holding a draft of players in their organization, regardless of contract. For instance, I think the worst teams in the league last year were Detroit, Baltimore and Miami. Allow those teams to each draft one player off their Major or Minor league roster. The draft order is followed by each team’s Won/Loss record. The drafting team is responsible for that players contract in its entirety.
That would F*’ing hurt the organization for years. That’s 29 players going to different teams. The weird thing is, Verlander would get left undrafted on Houston due to his age.
I agree, a postseason ban would be impossible to implement. A penalty as you suggest might work, but the details wouldn’t be easy to work out. I mean, who’d want cheaters on their team, and who pays their salaries? The reality is we don’t know what the ultimate penalty should be since we don’t know yet how high up in the organization the corruption went. If ownership is implicated I could see MLB forcing the sale of the team.
I think the level of penalties for Houston will depend on what MLB ultimately finds in total.
If what we know now is most of the transgressions and they are primarily 2017 based, Houston management and executives will be hit hard (vs. the players).
If we find out that the team continued to systematically cheat in 2018 and 2019, after the new rules were in place, then it could get really ugly for all-involved in Houston.
If other teams are caught for 2018 or 2019 transgressions, they’ll get similar treatment. Rumors about Texas, Milwaukee, and a few other teams are out there but so far, no facts have come out.
Also, as far as other teams in 2017, the only team caught was Boston and they were punished for it. So, MLB won’t hit them again.
And it’s been widely assumed that the Yankees punishment for 2017 was because Manfred was pissed at Cashman for ratting out the Red Sox to the press because Manfred was ignoring their complaints. He penalized them for some lame bullpen phone issue as payback.
We’ll have to wait and see.
You nailed it morejohn!
Who is next? Cardinals? Dodgers? Jays? 100% confident all three (especially the latter do it).
Why?
Because it felt good to say it?
These outrageous punishments people are coming up with… the internet is hilarious.
#nukehouston
“The silence from the Astros and everyone in their front office is very telling. It tells me that they realize now that there is no excuse for the way they behaved. You want to figure out pitch selection as a player and reveal your findings to a teammate, you can do that. That’s on the level. You wanna be smug, brazen and come up with plots to use electronic devices and slick maneuvering to become a dominant force in your league? You better make sure it’s legal. Otherwise it’s against the rules and there should be harsh punishments for it. Like being banned from baseball. That’s at the top of my list. What a bunch of morons.
Yup, I’m rooting for it. I want the punishment to be so severe for this team that it scares the living crap out of everyone in baseball. I want players to not be allowed to play the game on a professional level again. I want the Astros championship to be stripped from them”!
Great response by a smart baseball editor.
“Great response by a Yankees fan.”
Financial penalties aren’t going to bother a MLB team. You can fine them $30 million and someone will cut a check, check the algorithm, then raise the price of Goobers and light beer an imperceptible level and that’s that. The only thing that hurts is a loss of draft picks, international signings, etc. And make them use a wicker trash can.
I think there are levels of infractions. Correa of the Cardinals hacking the Astros system is a big one in my opinion and I’m a Cards fan. Wether the Cardinals had knowledge or not he represents them and they benefited from that info or he wouldn’t have done it. No issue with that punishment. To me stealing signs has been around since I’d imagine baseballs inception. It’s just to what level does adding cameras add on to that. As far as foreign substances pitchers add to balls or corked bats that’s cheating in its purest form. But nothing touches the white Sox scandal of throwing the World Series it comes remotely close. You can try to gain an edge and still lose nothing guarantees a win but playing to lose does guarantee a loss. Wouldn’t compare the two at all two totally different things
I will say as it’s illegal to use cameras to steal signs the Astros deserve whatever they get. Such a foolish thing to do. The old fashioned way and nobody bats and eye but players change teams all the time in this day in age don’t you think one or many of them who now are on the opposing side would blow the whistle on the whole operation. When you involve that many people in something illegal and they have a vested interest in it you’re going to get busted. That’s why I tend to think the actual use of cameras isn’t all that widespread we’d have heard about it. But I guess roids ran baseball for many years and it took a crazy person writing a book to shed light on it. We’ll see I guess
I can’t believe this. Everyone connected to this franchise ever should be banned for life tried and found guilty and never be free for the rest of their lives. The money gained from this should be used to house then during their prison sentence. Houston should lose their team and never get a new one. Ever astro fan should also be banned from anything baseball related for life for supporting such a team, in fact the Rangers and their fans should suffer the same fate for sharing a state with them…this can’t be tolerated…no one is innocent
Who honestly cares. Play the game. Make adjustments. Change it up from time to time. Plain and simple.
There is no integrity in sports. Unwatchable these days.
This is getting boring
I’m glad Trout beat out Bregman for the AL MVP.
I get that Bregman is talented and works hard, but still…. I’m sure he was partook in cheating as well which is super disappointing as he seems so accessible to fans. Trout is becoming like the Michael Jordan of MLB – the writers are probably getting tired of putting him at the top of their ballots while letting the performance of others supersede what he accomplishes on the regular.
I’m sure he was partook (sic) in the cheating
Really? Based on what?
When a whole organization is implicated in a cheating scandal, it would be naïve think certain individuals completely exempted themselves from the advantage.
Fine the organization, take away some Int’l bonus slot money and remove their 3rd round draft pick for 2020. Establish a three strike rule for all the MLB teams like they did for PED using players.
If all we hear is true, losing their draft pick is the minimum punishment. For the next five years? Maybe.
Didn’t know Robert Kraft owned a baseball team.
Sure are a lot of butthurt Yankees fans here.
“Kick them out of the league”
“Send the team to prison”
“Jose Altuve’s career is over”
“1919 Black Sox”
LOL, face it. The Astros were just a better team. At half the price. You lost. TWICE. Get over it.
Thank you Tony Soprano.
I’m a Yankees fan but I love the history of baseball. Money and draft picks won’t hurt the team in the win column. You either ban them from playoffs for 3 years or take the title away. But you don’t give that title to the dodgers or yanks. I mean you had Ryan Braun who cheated for his mvp award but Mlb suspends him next year but didn’t give it up to the runner up Matt Kemp and he didn’t want it.
The point how the astros cheated that they did this throughout the season at home and in the playoffs and World Series. And with baseball limiting catcher and pitchers visit those signs can’t get change during the game only in between innings. That’s why you can still see it.
There’s a thing for gaming-ship if a guy was on second to peak over the pitcher to see the catcher. But a camera pointed down into the dugouts or the catcher is garbage. I mean there’s more then that. These guys had wrist bands that will send a pulse telling what pitch was coming next.
The thing is at this point why did the astros went to such lengths to cheat to win it all, only later to get caught? The Yankees gotten rid of joe after that game but Yankees didn’t if they win. Stuff like cost people jobs around baseball.
Should be interesting to see what Manfred comes up with. I am all for punishing the Astros. Not sure you can do what they do in college, take away a title or ban from post season like a few people mention. What I’d like to see is the commissioner be proactive in addressing this issue, using technology to solve this. In the NFL, the QB has a radio in his helmet to receive the plays from the bench. If they can do that, why can’t MLB come up with something similar? Not only would it stop sign stealing, but it would speed up the game.
Technology is stipulated within the rules to deter resorting to a dependence on technology to counteract cheating.
The draft picks and post season ban suggestions all present a smoke screen. Logic, pure and simple, dictates these players have surpassed the reasonable defense of “not knowing” or “being pressured by management”. Long-term player suspensions and firings of executives and coaches is the current base line.
sign stealing stare
Squid Go Pro
It’s just sad. In all honesty, when was the last time some one or a team cheated like this? Pete rose? Look what happen to him. Banned from the game. I would not be surprised if the Astros had to hand over there title to the dodgers or forfeit it all for the season. I think this investigation will trickle over to the Red Sox also with Cora being the head coach for the 2018 season and winning the WS. Look at the split stats and it’s just the same as the Astros.
Not suggesting the Astro’s did or didn’t steal the signals or have a camera in the center field seats. My question is why is it always the Yankee’s at the other end of these conspiracy theories. A number of years ago McCann catching for Yankees claimed the Blue Jays had a guy in a white shirt in the center field seats relaying the pitch to the Jays batters.
Easiest way to solve this problem is go bad to old school. Get the stuff like laptops and tablets out of the dugout, no electronic communication.