Teams will be making their initial offers to Gerrit Cole in the coming days, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN (via Twitter). Cole, the top free agent in this year’s class, is a near-lock to exceed David Price’s $217MM guarantee, the current record contract for a pitcher.
Which teams figure to be in on Cole? The Yankees are seemingly committed to bringing Cole to the Bronx, and Peter Gammons of the Athletic somewhat cryptically tweets that the Bombers “were not denied” in their pursuit. Nevertheless, Passan’s sources hear that the Angels and Dodgers do remain in the running alongside the Yankees as favorites for Cole’s services. Both LA organizations have previously met with the Southern California native, as have the Yankees.
While that big-market trio seems to have moved to the forefront of the Cole race, other teams may still yet enter the mix once the time comes to put formal offers on the table. Jon Heyman of MLB Network reiterates (via Twitter) the Phillies’ and Rangers’ interest. Recent indications, though, are that Philadelphia and Texas seem to be more focused on fellow Scott Boras client Anthony Rendon.
That interest in Rendon, who himself figures to handily exceed $200MM, suggests that both organizations have ample spending room should they set their sights on Cole instead. However, the Phillies have already made one massive outlay on starting pitching this offseason, signing Zack Wheeler to a $118MM deal. The Rangers, meanwhile, have seemingly plugged two holes in their rotation via smaller deals for Kyle Gibson and Jordan Lyles. With that in mind, it seems to make sense for those two clubs to turn their attention to the position player side of things.
With the Cole market seemingly heating up, he figures to be the center of attention at next week’s Winter Meetings. With some of the sport’s biggest spenders eyeing him, Cole will surely break the bank whenever he makes the final decision.
Get it done Arte. Have Trout recruit him
Exactly.. Trout in his prime years plus Cole=a possible 3rd place finish. Sorry to say it. And I’m a fan as well
They’re not going to get just Cole. They’ll get another top tier SPand a bat. It’s imperative!!!!
Otherwise they might as well trade Trout because there’s no way they’ll ever win without pitching.
Whose top tier ? Bryan Mitchell ? Solarte?
The Angels aren’t getting anyone please lower your expectations. Your boy Trout is an accomplice to picking the pockets of the fans. He cares about winning as much as the front office which is to say as long as he gets paid winning doesn’t mean a thing. Dylan Bundy is your big acquisition you’ll see.
MT.. I’d love for you to trash Trout’s character in person to him. But then you are probably only courageous in anonymity.
This is a comment board abiut baseball. This is exactly where the conversation belongs. Nobody needs to be bullied by a roided out athlete.
What an asinine response. Trout is probably the most competitive player in baseball. Even if the Angels don’t become competitive soon it won’t be because Trout doesn’t provide another MVP type season. The Angels are more than Cole and another starter away from catching the Astros and A’s. Arte Moreno will spend stupid money when he needs to. He gave Pujols that ridiculous 10 year contract, the awful signing of Hamilton and more.
Trout signed the biggest contract but had he waited for Free Agency this offseason imagine what he could have received. He signed with the Angels because he is comfortable in Orange County and likes the fans in Anaheim. He didn’t ask for any opt outs, he is committed to the Angels.
Mystery Team…I’m surprised you actually took the time to type that utter nonsense …I wish the best player to ever play the game was wearing a Phillies uni !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is Trout the best player to ever play the game? He’s one of the best right now but it’s hyperbole to say all time.
Depends how long he lasts. Trout’s in the running for that.
“Everybody needs to calm down, he’s not Willie Mays.” – Rangers manager Ron Washington on the Mike Trout hype
So he is committed to being comfortable. That doesn’t mean winning is his first priority. If it was he would 1) go to a team that can win or 2) tell the angels to keep some of that extension money and get him some help.
The Angels are just too far behind in talent to compete for the division. Mareno just needs to let the people he pays to put a roster together do their job. No more forcing these big name big money deals. I didn’t expect Hamilton to fall off so quickly I don’t blame Moreno for not seeing the decline but as with so many offseason’s he should have been looking for pitching not that big free agent bat. They had plenty of offensive firepower they should have focused on holding other teams down.
@ForestCobraAL
Come on. Ted Williams had an incredible career and that’s NOT including his age 24-26 and 33-34 seasons missed for serving in the military in COMBAT missions. He won his first (he won 2) of his Triple Crown at age 23 and then missed the next 3 seasons to serve in WWII????? Come on bro. He had a legit shot to break Ruth’s record a decade sooner than Hank Aaron did it. His bat more than makes up for any defensive differential between he and Trout.
Trout has 3 seasons of a 1.000 OPS or better all in the last 3 seasons. Ted Williams had a 1.000 OPS or better every single season he played, 19 seasons, except his 2nd to last year before retiring when he hit a measly .791. He had a higher OPS than Trout’s career high 1.088 in 13 of his 19 seasons. He drew far more walks and struck out a fraction of the times Trout did.
Now imagine if he didn’t fight in two wars. If he had access to the coaching, training and analytics they have today??? And traveled in first class accommodations? No contest.
Cole would make a huge difference for the angels. The best player in baseball and the best pitcher in baseball can carry you a long way. If otani can pitch it changes things completely
Haha. You’re a tool. You probably believe Castro killed JFK and wear tinfoil on your head waiting for an alien abduction.
If you truly believe Trout doesn’t want to win you’re simply stupid. Seriously.
Completely different era, where the average OPS was higher and pitchers were throwing in the 80s, barely anyone with 90+ mph fastballs.
It’s only fair to compare players relative to the rest of the league… and this league is much better than Ted’s league, with all the advances in technology, strength and conditioning. Pitchers routinely throwing 95+ with killer rpm.
Trout has had a better start to his career than anyone in history — by fWAR, bWAR, bpWAR.
Ok, I give you that bc Williams was awesome and served our country. How many Hispanic or black pitchers were there back then? How many times a game did ted face a different pitcher throwing 95 plus from either side of plate? He mostly faced the same white pitcher throwing in the 80’s the whole game long. Hard to compare different times.
Can you imagine if Mickey Mantle knewhe’d live past fifty(his father/grandfather died young) and took better care of himself? Can you imagine if he didn’t destroy his knee while covering more ground in the outfield for an aging Joe Di. Can you imagine if he had access to the medical procedures that pro athletes have today? He would have been the greatest Baseball player that ever was and ever would be, no offense to Robert Redford!!!!
@rnz269
First off. You’re wrong. This idea that no one threw in the 90s until 50 years ago is a joke. Plenty of pitchers threw in the mid 90s and some hit 100. The difference is, those guys were not just throwers. They were pitchers. If a hitter knows a fastball is coming then he can hit it. It’s the offspeed stuff that gets a good hitter out. Fewer teams means fewer players that make it to the majors. Fewer players in the majors means, aside from Black players, that the best of the best make it to the majors. Expansion meant a lot more players made it from the minors and the talent level has become watered down.
In today’s game, if you can throw 95-100 but don’t have a secondary pitch you can still make it to the majors in some capacity.
To think that the best hitters of the past couldn’t hit a 96 mph fastball they knew was coming is crazy. Plus, I bet the #3-#5 starters of the past are far better than the #3 to #5s of today. You simply had to know how to pitch, not thrown.
Who’s harder to hit. A guy who throws 95-97 but can’t locate the FB and has no secondary offspeed stuff that’s average at best or a guy who throws 92-93 but can place it where they want and has two other pitches that are at least average or better?
Taller mound.
@southbeachbully
You tell ’em southbeach. Tell ’em about Cleveland Indians farm boy pitcher Bob Feller. He is dead and I don’t think he ever pitched in a game that wasn’t black and white on TV. He was hands down the hardest thrower in MLB history until people started speculating Nolan Ryan’s fastball. 100+ mph easy. Hall of famer. May have been faster than Nolan Ryan. And he ACTUALLY PITCHED! Anyone that says they all threw 80 or 90 mph back then, you should just tell them about Bob Feller southbeach.
There are several holes this year. Adding a foundational piece like Cole is never a bad idea, but he alone doesn’t get us a division title.
Maybe in a couple years of Adell and Marsh pan out, some pitching develops it is brought in. But not now.
Aren’t some of those contracts coming off the books? I’d say the Angels start with Cole and see what else comes their way. Top player on the field and another on the mound, it’s a good start…
To me is crazy when I see a player who earns more than 30 million annually especially a pitcher. Yes, we have different opinions, so relax people.
Salaries are wacky but teams wouldn’t pay them if the gross baseball revenues weren’t there…..
Yeah but imagine salaries being like 15 mill a year Max, much like the NBA maxes earnings.
Idk why the mlb doesn’t. Make owners put more money into teams if you limit salaries. Mlb may not need a salary cap but it needs a salary floor like 110 million. Force owners to put revenue into fixing stadiums and getting ticket prices down so fans can attend regularly.
You realize there are NBA players making like 45+ mil a year right?
NBA has 15 roster spots too. And Max contracts do top out at 45 mill. You play 5 guys at a time every day.you can have 1 max player bunch of role guys and be competitive. Bucks proved that. Nuggets too.
Baseball not so much. You need 9 guys some who don’t play every day and need 16 other guys for a roster. And 1 2 even 3 high priced contracts won’t field competitive teams. Point of capping earnings is to help field more competitive teams.
Who is there to force owners to do this? You want players to go on strike to limit their salaries? Or do you want the owners to do a lockout to limit their own profits? Neither makes sense. We fans don’t have a union so there is literally no one to try and push that agenda.
I agree with Francys and Jorge. I was actually buying into a lot of this bullish talk on this site about teams having way more money to spend than they will actually admit. That was until I read the article on THIS SITE about the Mets selling their team because they have lost at least $60 million in each of the past 2 seasons. Why would any business owner increase their payroll when they are already losing $120 million every 2 years. The Mets live in a massive market and actually outperformed most expectations last season. On this site I keep hearing that the Mets need to “remember they are in baseballs biggest market and increase their payroll.” They lost $60 million in each of the last 2 years!! That means if a team like the Marlins had exactly zero people come to any of their games for both of the last 2 years they would still be more profitable than the Mets! I know MLB supposedly has about $10 billion in revenue every year but that doesn’t mean the revenue is split up evenly between the teams and that doesn’t mean there is a bunch if profit in that number. That number doesn’t include what the teams owners have to pay to employees, stadiums (in some cases), coaches, doctors, trainers or even players. The facts are that some teams are probably making a majority of the profit and other teams aren’t. There is no reason to believe that every team in baseball should spend more on players. In fact, it seems like quite the opposite. It seems that teams are losing money BECAUSE they are spending too much on players. If a New York City team can outperform expectations while keeping their payroll at a level that people complain is a result of “the owners being greedy” and still lose $120 million over 2 years I don’t know who to trust. I understand the complaints about basement dwellers like the Pirates and Marlins. They don’t spend $ because they want to make sure they pull a profit no matter how bad attendance gets. It may make them better business owners than the Wilpons but it is no way to run a team. However, any organization that spends a little more than those teams and tries to compete seems to be doing the right thing regardless of what their payroll is. I know the owners are far richer than the players and all but that is no reason for them to throw their money away. They aren’t stupid. They didn’t become billionaires by throwing cash away. If the Mets lost $60 million each of the past 2 years that means they made a mistake by not cutting payroll by AT LEAST $60 million each of the past 2 years. Everyone on this site is saying they should spend more money beyond their last 2 seasons of $160 million payroll and now any business owner with brains realizes that they should have cut their payroll down to a maximum of $100 million each of the last 2 years. According to folks on this site the Mets spending $160 million and finishing with a winning record should easily give the team enough profit to increase payroll. Instead all it did was make the team lose $60 million. I don’t know who to trust anymore when it comes to how much money MLB teams can spend on rosters and stay profitable. This site seems to favor the idea that almost all teams (especially “big market” teams like the Mets) are able to increase payroll but don’t do it because the owners are greedy. I don’t trust small market teams like the Pirates or Marlins but I also don’t trust “greedy” people like Scott Boras. At this point I have to trust the free agent market totally and 100%. If teams aren’t spending more money it is because they are afraid they will end up like the Mets and lose money. Nobody gave Dallas Keuchel or Craig Kimbrel $50 million because neither of them were worth that flat out. I want players to get paid what they are worth but I don’t want teams to artificially inflate the free agent market by paying them more than what they are worth. The Mets have clearly artificially inflated the market by $120 million over the past 2 years while not making any profit in the meantime. The Wilpons weren’t very good baseball team owners but by the rhetoric on this site you would have to believe that a $160 million a year NYC team should obviously have enough money to drastically increase payroll. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t blame the Wilpons for selling. They probably got tired of people calling them “greedy” for not spending more money even though they were losing $60 million a year. I get it… The fans just want to win. Throwing money at the problem isn’t always a good solution. The Mets can’t be the only team that lost money the last 2 seasons considering they lost $120 million. The problem is that some people on this site would try and have you believe that no owners lose any money during any season and they should all raise payroll. It is obvious now that nothing could be further from the truth.
I hope you weren’t standing the whole time you wrote this.
I hope you don’t have carpal tunnel syndrome after that.
Standupguy- I’m sorry, I had my AirPods in can you repeat that!?
StandUpGuy- Thank you for that insightful comment. You really open my eyes, I normally check this website several times during the day for baseball news. I definitely agree with you with everything that you said. It’s always good to talk with someone that knows about the sport. Some people takes as a joke what you wrote, but your comment is wise. Once again, thank you.
It’s not possible to know how profitable each MLB team is, because we don’t have the information to do so. However, you really can’t make generalizations like this based off of one team’s finances—and even if you could, I don’t think I would choose the Mets as the jumping off point. They have somewhat of a unique position in the game as being (1) widely regarded as one of the most dysfunctionally-run franchises, and (2) victims (or accomplices, depending on your view) of a major Ponzi scheme. When you add up their constant making of poor decisions and sudden loss of an exorbitant amount of money (which had all kinds of long-term ripple effects on their finances, including having to borrow a lot of money against the team), you get what you now see with their financial situation. You also get a generally poor on-field product, which leads to declining attendance, which leads to further financial losses (although idiots like me keep going to the games because I just can’t help myself).
It may be that other teams have lost money, but in my view, the Mets’ situation doesn’t prove anything beyond that it’s really miserable being a Mets fan.
Or if you claim a loss, your company pays less taxes.
@DunpsterFireinQueens
You are absolutely right. The Mets are a terrible choice to compare all MLB teams to. The only reason I even mentioned them was this site said SPECIFICALLY THE NEW YORK METS SHOULD INCREASE PAYROLL. Most sites seem to say that about every single MLB team but to specifically say a team that is losing $60 million a year should “remember they are a big market team” and raise payroll shows that they don’t know exactly what they are talking about. I understand MLB keeps their finances secret and convoluted but that is their right and to assume that means every single team is going cheap and taking advantage of the system is presumptuous at best. To specifically reference the Mets as a team that needs to increase payroll even though they overspent by $120 million over the last to years is ignorant at best. If not just flat out rude. It is definitely flat out rude to tell everyone that someone is greedy because they are not willing to lose more than $60 million every year. I get that the Wilpons are rich and it makes less of a difference to them but they are one of the few teams that have followed the “spend, spend, spend” motto and it has completely bit them in the but. Now everyone is saying they just need to “spend, spend, spend” even more.
Francys08- then you’ll hate this- Lionel Messi is paid $80million a year to play soccer for Barcelona in Spain. That doesn’t inc his lucrative sponsorship deals with Adidas, Pepsi etc! $$$$$
audi, too.
I “hate” the Yankees but even are less disgusting than the Angels. If not the Yankee, I hope Cole becomes a Dodger.
feeling’s mutual, texuxan.
What in gods name did I just read?! May whatever offspring you ultimately pop out be taught by their mother (or other father).
Ya, stop the Yankees and you can have two superb players going nowhere lol
What the hell does that even mean? Put the pipe down clown.
It’d be nice to see the Angels put something together, i like the way Trout plays the game – White Sox fan.
I too like the way Trout plays the game
–Nfl hater
Not sure if Cole I’d still in NY but Trout happens to be there right now…..
He sees trout going home every year with out an opportunity to win a championship ♂️ No way he will go to the Angels.. count on the Yankees buddy
Then you will have two hall of famers that will never win the World Series!!
Feels like another case of a “dark horse” winning the Cole sweepstakes. Maybe the Giants?
You could be right but I think its become a 6-team race at this point with the Angels, Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Padres & Rangers as the finalists- in that order of probability to land him.
The silence from the Phillies on Cole is strong.
I’m expecting a pivot to Josh Donaldson rather than Rendon too. Donaldson and Wheeler had “Phillies” written all over them and they are the worst ones on the market, the guys who you should avoid at all cost.
Rendon and Gerrit Cole you just throw money and smirk at all the losers screaming about how it “won’t work!”
It always works, ever since Babe Ruth.
Funny how the Cards were willing to spend a ton on Price but don’t want anything to do with Cole. For once Cardinals, grow a pair!
Lol, what? There’s a lot more big-money pitcher contracts that flop than there are that succeed. Price is still a good pitcher, but the Red Sox couldn’t give that contract away
I’m a Giants fan but the Giants aren’t a dark horse, they’re a dead horse at this point.
They make a ton of sense for this signing! Payroll commitments next three years: $116M, $92M, and $59M. Give Cole 8 (when most others may max out at 7) and $268M ($33.5M per), frontload it quite a bit.. be ready to compete for a few rings in 2-3 years when he’s still 31-32? Good fit. And they need to make a splash.
Good for Gerrit Cole! I’m glad this off-season and the FA market is moving along a little faster than last year!!
It is nice to see all this movement early, especially within the top 50 FAs. Throw in some good trades during the winter meetings and this if one of the better of off seasons in recent memory this time of year.
Why does it matter how fast the market goes? Unless they’re signing in June, what difference does it make?
A faster market is interesting instead of boring. Last year nothing happened forever. We waited on Machado and Harper month after month. Ugh. And then there was Keuchel and Kimbrel. Yuck. Call it the Cold Stove season.
Boras will slow everyone down. And if Boras had a market for JDM he wouldn’t be signed either. But I guess he found out he can’t get more money, so take what you have. I’m guessing the X man decided no FA for him, and I’m happy bout that.
So many people have it confused. Boras works for the player not the other way around. Any complaints about boras should be directed at his clients.
Boras advises them to play hardball. Always has always will.
Whatever team gets Cole, prepare to pay a lot more for tickets.
Nah…not how it works.
Exactly. Teams can only charge as much as the customers are prepared to pay, and they will never charge less. Econ 101.
Yeah….except signing Cole and whatever else the team does will drive up demand for tickets, esp if they are winning. Demand drives prices. There’s x amount of tickets. After the off season if the team improves on paper you’ll see ticket prices go up, may not be a significant amount but it will, esp if it’s a team with a strong fan base and no attendance issues.
Signs with the Ray’s tickets won’t go up. Yankees red Sox dodgers angels? It will
Sure, customers are generally willing to pay more for a better product. It’s the idea that Cole’s salary gets passed along directly to ticker-buyers that doesn’t work. The team can only do that if they sell more tickets as a result of signing him.
My tickets were about the same after Trout got $430 million.
It was kinda hard to change ticket prices for season ticket holders when Trout was signed 3 days before the season.
Yep, they were already too much. And yes, I’ve paid those brutal prices in Anaheim.
When you adjust for prices of everything in California, Trout is barely making over the league minimum
The Angels are on the low end of ticket prices.
I highly recommend you stay away from the Dodgers and entire east coast. Angels tickets aren’t even top 10 expensive.
son took me to the $60 seats and they bring food and beer for you. and parking veey close was $20.
$115-150 per ticket is low end?
Trout was a bargain at that price. Angels have a lot of room.
If they could get more they would charge more, doesn’t matter if their salaries were a million bucks total
It’s all about TV revenue…..
Only Wrigley’s ticket prices go up each year and most of the time, for no damn reason.
It always is worthwile to mention that the Angels front office is Fort freakin Knox for information. Every major signing theyve made; Pujols, Hamilton, Cozart since the beginning of teh Arte reign has been kept out of the news right until the end.
Artes a big “no snitches” guy
Good to know he keeps his terrible signings a big secret
So true. Not to mention Vlad, Colon and Torii Hunter.
Or nobody cares what the Angels are going to do.
Says the guy who is posting a sub-comment to a sub-comment on a wildly obscure site about rumors. .
Nonsequiter. Try again. Or maybe root for a real team.
@bkbk
“wildly obscure:wildly obscure” I would say this site has done enough to earn
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Also the Angels and Yankees drew the same amount of fans last year accounting for the few 1000 fan difference in capacity.
Soooooooooo..
Yankees have actually largely been that way too, which is why they must be truly all in on Cole if they’re willing to come out and say it
Angels are going to make a splash at this years winter meetings. Just like they did the year they got Pujols/CJ Wilson.
Cole/Keuchel, Maldonado and a trade for Kris Bryant.
Don’t poop the bed Eppler and Moreno!!!
I really hope they don’t trade for Bryant. We have Fletcher, La Stella, Rengifo, Thaiss, Cozart, and Ward who are all capable of playing either Third or Second base.
Aside from Fletcher, I’d cast them all away. The Angels, nor their fans, have any idea if LaStella can replicate those numbers. The rest of the guys mentioned are pure fodder.
I think Cosart will be much better this year. I was even thinking that the Phillies should try to aquire him as their stop gap to Bohm if the Angels would take a non top 30 prospect and kick in some cash. He may never replicate his offensive numbers from a couple of years ago but he’s a good defender at all three non-1B inf positions.
Deal, sir!
Rengifo was a slightly above avg player last year with room to grow. Thaiss had his moments, and he will grow off of last season. Can’t forget, Thaiss was a 1st round pick not to long ago, Ward was a first rounder too. The potential is there. Cozart has had plenty of time to heal. If you want to trade the farm for a player, then trade for a pitcher or catcher, not a Third basemen, we have plenty of guys who will have slightly above average to above average production. There’s bigger things to worry about.
And yes, none of La Stella, Fletcher, Rengifo, Cozart, or Thaiss have huge homerun potential, but I can see the angels being a lot more active on the bases and being creative to create runs. Old Halo baseball, and we have the perfect manager for that style of play.
totally agree!
Most likely they will want fletcher back and thats a non starter. The farm is still thin from top to bottom and trading for bryant would deplete that back to the bottom
Angels needs to win. Fletcher, Suarez, Simmons and Thaiss for Contreras and Bryant lol idk but they need a bat and 2 top tier SP or they’ll be rotting in 3rd place for the next 5-7yrs
Simmons is very valuable to them because of how good of a SS he is. I dont think they’d trade him
But besides last year, his offensive numbers have been terrible. Not to mention he’s starting to get the injury bug. Dump him and his $15min contract if possible. Cube need a SS too. Trout needs a bat behind him not named Upton and Pujols.
dream on siitting on yo’r toilet, troll!
The Cubs don’t need a SS.
The Jays have the payroll flexibility to make a 7 year/$250 million offer… but they won’t.
All things being equal none of the top free agents would sign with the Jays. They’re a fourth place team in a tough division who happens to play outside the US. The Jays and O’s won’t be signing any top free agent pitchers for quite awhile.
You just listed several great reasons not to sign with the Angels too. Whether you consider LA to be inside the US or not is a matter of taste
Except that Cole grew up down the street from Angel Stadium. And if you don’t think LA is in the US, well, Gerrit Cole went to college in LA. Ask him if he thinks it’s in the US..
Angels aren’t in LA.
About time someone tells the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim that they aren’t in LA
I think we all know we’re not in LA, bruh..
The Owner changed it for more revenue, and a TV deal. No Angel fan likes the change. Get over it, we did ;)
Hometown discounts are a myth. The highest bidder will win.
typical teatraitors’ nonsense!
The angels are better off spreading their money around, idk how long it takes for the angels to realize that signing big contracts doesn’t equal wins
Cole isn’t Hamilton, Pujols, or Vernon Wells.
Cole is the Mike Trout of pitching, he’s the guy you spend money on. Arte made a huge mistake with Hamilton, you can argue Pujols as well, but he’s been a solid clubhouse guy/mentor and he really has t been that bad. Look at his numbers. Maybe not $250mil good, but he means a lot to these guys coming up, especially Trout.
Cole is arguably the greatest of all time?
I’ve never heard anyone argue Trout is the greatest of all time
You must not go out often.
“Trout’s 71.6 career wins above replacement (based on Baseball-Reference) is the highest all-time by a position player by their 28th birthday (Ty Cobb is second at 69.0). At this juncture, he’s already passed 27 Hall of Famers in WAR. He currently ranks 60th all time on the WAR list.“
Why wouldn’t he be considered one of the greatest of all time?
Well, I’ve seen it on the internet, but I still think it’s Babe Ruth just because he was an excellent hitter AND an excellent pitcher. However, the GOAT conversation is and will continue a very interesting one.
If he can stay healthy and keep producing the way that he has, he will be.
One of the greatest, sure – not the same as THE greatest
Go out where? Angel Stadium? Can’t imagine anyone who wants to be taken seriously arguing a 27 in our era year old is greater than Babe Ruth or even Josh Gibson.
Because WAR is a made up nonsensical stat?
Only if you don’t understand it,
However, I think “of all time” is a bit hard to equate.
Babe Ruth played in a different time, against different quality of players, under different rules.
I feel if you picked him up, dropped him in 2020, you wouldnt see him put up the stats of 100 years ago.
He was a great of his generation.
Babe Ruth and Trout are #1 and #2 all-time. Followed by Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams in my opinion.
Babe Ruth arguably faced tougher pitchers in his era because the league talent level wasn’t as watered down as now from having 30 teams. As a pitcher he arguably faced the same issue — facing a tighter pool of more talented hitters.
@ vtadave – Fangraphs, BR and BP all calculate WAR differently. As Fangraphs states, WAR is a concept — like the QB rating in the NFL or college rankings (my analogies) — and not a statistic.
he was an alcoholic when drinking was illegal. a lawbreaker!
The player pool being exponentially larger due to integration and international players more than makes up for the “watering down” of having more teams now.
Good point — but the flip side of that is that you have to compare Trout to the great Negro League players of the past too — like Josh Gibson — who never got to play in MLB.
If people want to go by WAR, fine, then say Mike Trout is the greatest player ever at age 27. But remember, Ted Williams missed 3 years playing because he was serving in WWII. The seasons before and after he was in the service he had a WAR of over 10. Williams may have lost more than 30 WAR those years — ages 24-26. Willie Mays also missed more than a season and a half serving in the military.
And there are no reliable stats for Negro League players — therefore no WAR. Satchel Paige has stats for the years he did play in the big leagues, but by then he was old — his best years in the Negro Leagues behind him.
Another reason Babe Ruth should be regarded the best ever is that, even playing on the same team with Lou Gehrig, he was so far ahead of the competition. He set the single season home run record in 1919 with 29 home runs — only a year or two after being converted from a pitcher. Then he went on to break his own record three more times, hitting 60 8 years later. That’s a level of achievement that could never happen in today’s game.
I agree Mike Trout is a player for the ages, but you can’t compare him to guys that did it for 12, 15 or even 20 years yet. Wait and see.
Trout will be the goat before he is done. Just wish more people would realize how special he is and what amazing baseball you are getting to watch from him
Mike Trout is the greatest player of all time. There; now you’ve heard it.
@Priggs89 Yeah, heard it from just another lazy-brained dope
Cole is a difference maker
No ones won a title with him yet. He’s very good but not a difference maker. Strasburg is a difference maker.
If you pick strasburg over Cole you know literally nothing about baseball
Really? Signing the best pitcher in baseball won’t do them any good huh…
Cole is not even close to being the best pitcher in baseball. What planet are you from?
Not even close to the best? You must be the one from a different planet. You can make an argument that he isn’t the best, but he is easily top 3 right now.
Maybe not, but he’s definitely one of the best.
He’s not the best, his career numbers lag behind DeGrom and Scherzer by significant margins. He’s not on either one of those guys levels. He’s obviously a top ten pitcher, arguably top five, but it’s objectively wrong to claim he’s the best in baseball.
Cole right now is top 3 pitchers in baseball. Scherzer & deGrom probably #1 & #2. Verlander & Kershaw right behind even if they are in the twilight of their careers.
The deal with pitchers is that you aren’t talking about there careers. Last year Cole was the best pitcher in the sport by a mile.
You know at some point there will be the infamous “mystery team that no one expects.”
In this case the “mystery team” is the Yankees. Some mysteries don’t need to be solved by Miss Marple.
All mysteries can be solved by Hercule Poroit.
The Boras special
Giants and Nationals aren’t being talked about, both have a lot of room to spend and often do so.
Nationals would be better off signing their own free agents.
Unless Gammons has suddenly taken to tweeting about politics, I wouldn’t give any weight to the “cryptic” tweets that the Yankees were not denied.
Gammons has always tweeted about politics, so that’s nothing new.
Boras and his f’n mystery team. Why does the team have to be a mystery? Because it’s BS
Can’t spell Boras without BS
I guess you could interpret the “were not denied” comment as cryptic, it seems to me that he’s saying it’s a done deal and will soon be made public.
Hell of a way to start the winter meetings….. if that happened.
That would require you to believe that Boras allowed the top FA available to sign this early in the process.
More likely is that Gammons meant the GM and front office “were not denied” by ownership from opening the wallet in order to pursue him.
Cardinals? They were in on Pujols, Heyward, and Price till the end… the salary outlook is alittle different now unfortunately with dex, carp, goldy and molina clogging up the books for at least two more years.
So you’re saying they’ve been extremely lucky to have dodged those 3 bullets.
He has to be real good and real healthy for a real long time to justify the investment, but if he is it’s a bargain.
Angles should have traded for Villar. King Kong Bundy is okay 3-5 in the rotation and better than the crap FA class they spent 35 mil+ on last year. Sign Cole and go the route of the A’s and sign 3-4 FA at 1 mil or less when spring training starts.
villar? we have gold glove 2b in house.
How is it the White Sox aren’t even putting in a bid for this guy? Or Strasburg? Completely rigged system. Completely inept owner.
Strasburg is a native Southern Californian who just won the WS with the Nationals, and Cole is a native Southern Californian who grew up a Yankee fan. On top of that the Yankees and Dodgers are arguably one great pitcher away from a title. The White Sox don’t have a realistic shot at either pitcher without paying more than $250 mil to get one of them. Most likely neither do the Astros, Cardinals or Cubs.
What nonsense. The only relevant point you made was the contract—$250MM. The Sox can afford a $35MM per annum contract. All the other crap about Southern California and growing up a Yankees fans do not matter. Players spend 6-7 months traveling, and go home (wherever that is) for the offseason. Very few of them play where they grew up, nor do they play for childhood favorites. Mike Trout grew up in South Jersey, about 30 minutes from Philadelphia. Did it matter when he re-signed with the Angels? No. It’s part of the job and lifestyle. You play for whatever teams wants you enough to give you the most lucrative contract. Period. Who wants to play where they grew up anyway?
The truth hurts doesn’t it?
What truth?
I wasn’t just talking about teams and geographical areas players grew up with but who they have familiarity with in general. Your bringing up Mike Trout reinforces part of my point. Trout essentially took a team friendly deal to re-sign with the Angels. Had he hit the open market presumably he would have landed a larger contract. So, no, not all players just go where the money is — some stay or go back to where they are comfortable.
So Gerrit Cole, who has no connection to Chicago, is going to consider signing with a traditionally low spending team who hasn’t made the playoffs in years? I think it would be kind of dumb for Cole to sign with the Angels, but he’s familiar with Southern California — just in a different way than Trout is familiar with Southern California.
Trout proves it’s not always about the money (but he is extremely well paid), but Cole probably is, at least to some degree with Boras in his corner. I hope the White Sox start to spend soon, but Cole feels like the wrong guy at the wrong time for them for many reasons.
Spurious logic.
Cole (a Boras client) most likely chose to leave the Astros, a team he’s had success and familiarity with. Why? A bigger contract.
Right, so why did you bring up Trout, who didn’t leave for a bigger contract? If Cole signs with one of the SoCal teams or the Yankees he’ll be signing with a team he’s already familiar with — whether as a fan or because he’s from SoCal. He played for Houston less than a season — little connection there. It sounds like he’s indicated pretty clearly where he wants to play — it just so happens those are the teams with the big bucks.
But I agree with you that if the teams in Midwest offered more than the big coastal teams do they’d get the big free agents too more frequently. But they don’t that often, That Jason Heyward contract has got to be a drag on the Cubs the way the Miguel Cabrera contract is on the Tigers. I think the White Sox will offer a big contract soon, but no way it should be Gerrit Cole. Way too risky with the number of years needed.
I’d rather see Arte get Strasburg AND Cole just to show the baseball world he can.
That’s the plan, bruh! They’ve been saving a lot of money the couple years, they’re ready to strike.
If they go into 2020 without two top tier SP from this FA class, then Eppler is canned and Arte is in deep. The fan base is sick of losing. The stadium will be empty come June.
troll!
@Mr.Ward14
Eppler is getting fired if he fails to sign a top FA. All he can do is put the best offer Marte authorizes him to hand out.
This is the hard truth after the initial offers are made it will come down to the Yankees, Dodgers and Angels then the Angels will back out once the bidding exceeds 250, million. Then it will come down to who we all assumed it would Yankees and Dodgers. If the insiders are correct and the Yankees refuse to be outbid for him he will go to the Yankees.
The Dodgers are about as in on Cole as they were on Harper a year ago.
I doubt the Dodgers really wanted Harper that badly. The Dodgers weren’t unusual in this regard
The point is they don’t really want anybody that badly, which doesn’t stop them from being connected to every top free agent, even though they never actually sign any.
You may be right, but they have to feel the heat after failing to reach the WS this past season. I say withhold judgment until Cole, Strasburg and also Ryu and Bumgardner sign somewhere.
From where would they be feeling that heat? I’ve long since given up any hope that ownership or management cares about how the fans feel. Stan Kasten has made it clear that so long as the tickets sell he can say he’s made a success of the Dodgers. Based on what we’ve seen, I rate Cole as completely out of reach, Strasburg maybe a bit more attainable, and Bumgarner as not a fit. Of all the possibilities a reunion with Ryu seems the likeliest because he can be signed within the Dodgers comfort zone in terms of the number of years (probably three) and dollars (around $60M). So what if it doesn’t add up to an improved playoff rotation? Only fans care about that stuff.
7 245 get it done. ?
No team can afford that right now!
Well then no team is getting him. That’s probably just a starting number.
BS.
The Angels are proof that you cannot buy a championship. And that front office loses titles. The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. LOL They don’t even know where they’re from.
Worst comment on the thread award goes to…. Longboarder. Congratulations.
White Sox six years $200 million with a mutual option for a seventh year!
Boras laughs, then spits in the face of that weak sauce.
Is that mutual option worth $75mil?
All of these big market teams are pushing the luxury tax threshold for 2020. The Angles and Dodgers have a little room for Cole but have other needs rather than going all in on him. Meanwhile Spotrac already has the Yankees at $199 million for 2020, so giving Cole $35 million a year would put them way over the threshold while still having to fix their bullpen.
The White Sox offered Mancado a big deal last off-season so I can not see why Cole won’t get the same offer. Six years at $200 million is just a start. Teams are being realistic with giving a pitcher a deal for more than six years. The White Sox are estimate at $91 million for 2020 right now and are expected to be around $130 to $140 this year. Plus, the White Sox have a lot of controllable young position players and pitchers that can attract Cole.
In the mean time, I would not mind if Cole goes somewhere else for more money. All I know if he does go to the Yankees or Angels does team are going to be spending more money for other players and will go over the threshold.
I’m a little late with this question. But what would a Mike trout look like ?? Any ideas
A Mike Trout would look like a Mike Trout. Unless he were really a trout named Mike — in which case he’d look like a fish.
I meant to say. What would a Mike trout trade look like. Thanks for taking the time to act like a jerk niched
there is no trade involving mike trout. if the angels gm takes the offer from a team to moreno he may get fired right there.
Sorry Howie, I was just kidding around. Didn’t mean to be a jerk, I just couldn’t resist.
Id rather them go for strasburg and madbum than 40 per year for cole
The Angels had nobody start more than 18 games last year. They need a rotation badly. Starts with Cole. But they need a lot more than that. They will need to sign a couple more as well. Ohtani comes back and they have a rotation. Adell comes up and he’s a force. Then they need to fill out their lineup. They didn’t hire their manager to lose anymore. They’re spending money.
This will be a key addition for whoever gets Cole, the teams that get the top pitchers win the world series a lot more than the team that gets the top position players. As Sandy used to say, pitching is 75 to 80 per cent of the game. I do think that Cole has a much better chance of winning with the Yanks compared to the Angels.
adding cole if your the angels will do absolutely nothing to make them contenders, they dont have a good enough team or rotation, garrit is an ace with verlander thats why the Astros are that good, the angels have NOTHING after trout, who i still will never understand why he signed that deal to never make the playoffs, i kept seeing Stanton sign his mega deal with Miami, a bad ownership with 1 superstar and no chance, 3 years later hes in new York. Getting cole will help the team, but you would need another ACE and everything else to even pretend you can have a wildcard game, do any fans think joe maddon and Dylan bundy have transformed that team? name your starting rotation after cole, you will get from 63 wins to 70, oh boy!
I’m an Angel fan I agree. We have a horrible owner who spends all of his money on one FA and then the GM dumpster dives for the remaining players. But I have a feeling that this off-season will be different. I think Arte will get two top SP, make a trade for a bat and sign a Catcher. If they don’t, then 3rd place will be ours for the next 5yrs
dumdum!
You nailed it Amanda2019, you are 100% correct.
Amanda, it sounds like you’re a fan of baseball and you would know that one acquisition does not a winner make. Cole would be signed as a staff anchor; someone to fill that large hole vacated by Jered Weaver in his prime. A World Series champ is not a group of all stars; it’s a mix of players who know their role and execute that role with success. Keep in mind the 2015 Royals won the WS with a staff anchored by Edison Volquez. Howie Kendrick was just as important to that 2019 WS as Max Scherzer. The Angel’s will not win the WS in 2020, you can book that, but a staff anchored by Cole, a lineup anchored by Trout, a supporting cast who executes their role, led by a manager who knows how in win, the future looks bright.
Ah, good old MLB agent Scott Boars.
Angels in trouble if they don’t get Cole.. they could trade with Dodgers for Joc .. or if Cole goes elsewhere, trade with Boston for Price and Eovaldi. But they in trouble big time if Cole chooses Dodgers or NYY.
no.
Ray714, Angels need a direction. They have proven year after year they have no direction. Cole or no Cole until they figure out a direction, they will be what they are. The standings and scoreboard do not lie PERIOD
you must be married to that 17 year old ward guy.
Probably something like 260/8 with an opt-out. Maybe you get him for less if you front load some money.
Phillies should pursue Ryu and Keuchel at this point. They need 5 starters. Nola, Wheeler, Ryu, Keuchel, Arietta/Howard.
Every year we hear the Dodgers are signing the top free agents and trading their top prospects (this year they are desperate for a World Championship) and they never do.
Rangers have Lynn, minor, Gibson and Lyles. That’s a decent rotation for not a ton of money.
I hope the Yankees DO NOT sign Cole or Strasburg. However, they will sign Cole and make him shave the beard.
If Cole cares anything about winning, noway would he sign with the Halos. He is a perfect fit for the Dodgers or NYY.
Cole will become the first 300 million dollar pitcher. Some years will be optional. It will probably be a 10 year deal.
Cole’s 29 years old, he’s not getting a 10 year deal.
Cole wants to finish in third with trout first, go ahead.
They simply don’t have the talent in the organization. Cole is not going to fix that.
All reports indicate his main focus is on winning a championship which I think will make this race between the Dodgers and Yankees. But, the Yankees are reported to be willing to pay whatever it takes so the highest contract for a winning team I think could be the deciding factor.
Time to pour some water on the Angels fans hopes and dreams. He knows what else is in the American League Western division his hopes is to win a World Series the angels are not going to get their having to play Houston 19 times a season. He will want to go somewhere to play where he would only have to worry about the Astros in the playoffs or World Series. It will be the Yankees or Dodgers I’m more inclined to lean towards the Yankees given they are willing to spend whatever it takes where are the Dodgers I am sure have a limit. I’m going to guess eight years 275 million with player opt out after years six, seven and eight.
The Angels have 5 players under contract for 2020 at a total of $115M. If they sign Cole it would push it to at least $151M with 20 other players to be paid for their opening day roster. I’d be shocked if they sign him. He will end up with the Yankees, maybe the Dodgers. Andrew Friedman probably won’t commit that much to one player.
Thinking more like 45 a year. At least six years.
Guess we will sometime in March… HA!