DECEMBER 9: This deal is now official, per a team announcement.
DECEMBER 4: The Phillies have made the biggest free-agent splash of the offseason to date, as they reached a reported five-year, $118MM agreement with free-agent right-hander Zack Wheeler on Wednesday afternoon. The contract is still pending a physical. Wheeler is represented by Jet Sports Management.
Wheeler, 29, has been arguably the most in-demand pitcher on the free agent market early in the offseason. While he’s regarded as the third-best arm on the market behind Gerrit Cole and Stephen Strasburg, that duo’s sky-high earning power priced out a number of pitching-needy teams from the outset. Wheeler, however, has been viewed as a more affordable pitcher with high-end stuff — one whom many believe can still take another step forward in the years to come.
Of course, that’s not to say that the current iteration of Wheeler isn’t a quality arm; he very much is. Over his past 55 Major League starts, the right-hander has worked to a 3.47 ERA (3.27 FIP) with 9.0 K/9, 2.4 BB/9, 0.82 HR/9 and a 43.1 percent ground-ball rate in 349 2/3 innings. He’s distanced himself from Tommy John surgery and the ensuing complications that wiped out nearly two full seasons of his career, combining to make 60 starts dating back to Opening Day 2018.
Wheeler was also the second-hardest-throwing starter on the open market, with his career-best 96.7 mph average heater trailing only the aforementioned Cole. Beyond that, he possesses above-average spin on his heater and curveball, and he’s excelled in terms of minimizing hard contact against him (90th percentile average exit-velocity among MLB starters, per Statcast). Given that he’s played in front of one the worst defenses in the game over the past couple of seasons, there’s a belief that he could excel with a change of scenery, although it’s of course worth noting that the Philadelphia defense has had its own share of struggles over that same time.
Rotation help has been the clear top priority for the Phillies this winter, as their collective group of starters was a decidedly subpar group in 2019. Philadelphia entered the season with Aaron Nola and Jake Arrieta anchoring the starting staff. And, after a 2018-19 offseason that focused largely on augmenting the lineup, the Phils leaned heavily on younger, inexperienced arms like Zach Eflin, Nick Pivetta and Vince Velasquez to round out the rotation.
Of that trio, only Eflin yielded any real dividends, however. The 25-year-old proved a serviceable fourth starter with a 4.13 ERA over 28 starts (32 total appearances), while Pivetta and Velasquez combined for an ERA well north of 5.00. Meanwhile, Arrieta struggled through his worst performance since his breakout and ultimately underwent season-ending surgery to remove a bone spur from his elbow. Even Nola, who finished third in 2018 NL Cy Young voting, took a notable step back in 2019. The end result was a Phillies starting staff that finished 17th in ERA (4.64), 24th in FIP (4.91) and 16th in xFIP (4.59) last year.
Wheeler will now slot into the Phillies’ rotation alongside Nola, Eflin and Arrieta — with the hope being that the removal of the bone spur through which Arrieta pitched in 2019 will help to bring about a rejuvenation of sorts. There’s still room for another rotation addition, to be sure, and there’s also room on the payroll to make that a reality. Before agreeing to terms with Wheeler, the Phils’ payroll checked in a bit shy of $150MM (including projected arbitration salaries). They’ll see Arrieta, David Robertson and the small portion of the Jay Bruce contract they’re paying all come off the books next season, lending some long-term flexibility even in spite of substantial commitments to Wheeler, Bryce Harper and others.
Earlier this offseason, Philadelphia general manager Matt Klentak voiced a preference to eventually move away from signing players who’ve rejected qualifying offers, but it appears that was far from a mandate, as the Phillies will now do so for a third consecutive winter. Signing Wheeler will cost Philadelphia its second-round pick and $500K of international bonus allotments. The Mets, meanwhile, will pick up a compensatory draft pick after Competitive Balance Round B — likely in the 75 to 80 range of next year’s draft. They’ll also, of course, now be on the lookout for another starting pitcher — although they were never viewed as a serious player to re-sign Wheeler.
Geography played a pivotal role in Wheeler’s decision to sign with Philadelphia, it seems. The Athletic’s Marc Carig, who first broke the news, noted in his original report that Wheeler’s fiancee is from nearby New Jersey, and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets that the White Sox’ bid on Wheeler was actually higher than that of the Phillies. Meanwhile, Darren Wolfson of 1500 SKOR North in Minneapolis tweets that the Twins, too, made a five-year offer to Wheeler and that money wasn’t the ultimate factor in rejecting that bid. Presumably, an offer that blew Philadelphia’s out of the water could’ve swayed Wheeler to stray from the East Coast, but it seems that family considerations won the day when final bids wound up comparable.
In the end, Wheeler drew varying levels of interest from the White Sox, Twins, Reds, Astros, Rangers, Yankees and Blue Jays before his agreement with the Phils. That level of interest was largely foreseeable, and the fit with the Phillies has long been a particularly sensible one, as was predicted on MLBTR’s Top 50 Free Agent list at the start of the offseason. The choice of destination proved to be spot on, but the considerable interest in Wheeler ultimately pushed his guarantee north of the five years and $100MM estimate put forth at that time.
Marc Carig of The Athletic broke news of the agreement (via Twitter). Bob Nightengale of USA Today, ESPN’s Jeff Passan and Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia all reported financial details on the contract (all links to Twitter).
woah
Why? Hopefully, it works out for the Phillies, but I don’t really like this signing.
Glad the Sox didn’t sign him. Sox targeted him over better pitchers and I wonder who their next “target” is.
agree.
Oh god. What is that? About $24 mill a year for a 3.96 ERA pitcher?
While I don’t disagree with you, I would have to imagine that the Era will dip. If I’m not mistaken, Philly has a better defense than the Mets
The next target is Bubba! BUBBA BUH BAAAA
Yes. I wish the Phillies good luck after giving that contract to Wheeler. I wonder who decided to give this contract Klentak, Macphail or Middleton.
As a Met fan I can tell you this guy is much better than the numbers and I wish he was as bad as all you Phillies fans seem to think.
He was managed poorly and left in too long in games by Callaway and threw to one of the worst framing catchers in the league as you all know in Ramos.
This move guarantees the Met’s will sit in fourth place.
Be careful what you wish against because you have a GM that spends and we have the Tampons and Van Luchwagon!
For a 4WAR pitcher with upside, that’s not an overpay.
“I want my trophy back…unless I have to pay Gerrit Cole” – John “Felony Fraud” Middleton
As a fellow Mets fan I to liked Wheeler. But to blame his performance on Callaway is a stretch. 120 million pitchers should be able to make it out of the 5th inning.
You also have to factor in the move from the Mets spacious ballpark to the Phillies hitter’s paradise. Any defense increase, which may or may not be true since the Phils non-tendered half of their infield, would be rendered moot. I have a gut feeling this contract will be looked at in 2022 as one of the worst in baseball. My gut has been wrong before, but it’s been right too.
He averaged over 6 innings per start and completed 7 innings or more in half of his starts.
Keuchel most likely. Similar stats but Keuchel just three years older. Should just offer what they would have offered to Wheeler.
10.2 career WAR and turns 30 in May. Desperation move by the Phillies.
While I absolutely love the signing for the Phils, I also completely agree with everything you said here. It’s a high risk, high reward contract. Wheeler’s ceiling is pretty high, but will he ever reach it? We don’t know. Moving to a hitter’s ballpark may hurt him, but he’s had some success pitching there.
So yeah. I’m all about the signing for the Phils, but I would not be shocked if this turns into a huge disaster.
The ball park will offset defense…
118M at 5 years for ages 30-34 is a good deal.
Price to play poker just went up for other decent SP FA
I think the White Sox dodged a bullet. Still cracks me up though that they offered a higher amount and still list out. Probably because the slightly higher amount would only have been reached had he met an incentive of going a minimum of 20-0 in his final year of the contract with 19 or more complete games and less than 5 walks allowed all year.
That’s crazy to call it a desperation move. They signed him early and overpaid a little so they don’t get shutout if Boras waits until the last minute. Wait and see…they will sign DiDi to play short and move Segura to 3B and walk out of the meetings with a closer. Then they can play the waiting game for 1 of the 2 Boras stars. If it looks bleak, then they will sign another starter like Bumgarner
Please stop because I can’t handle when Mets fans are being rational and actually giving credit to a division rival. Seriously, as much as you guys can get on my nerves I do feel a certain kinship with you considering what our teams put us thru.
Were barely better I believe and they play in a shoe box. Fly balls go bye bye
Equally bad
The “Sox”?! I didn’t know the Red Sox were in on Wheeler. Or did you mean the White Sox? Hahaha, silly, no one refers to the Northwest Indiana White Sux as the “Sox”… actually most don’t even refer to that poverty franchise at all. Of course you’re glad they didn’t sign him, in spite of many WHITE Sux fans clamoring for him (including you) just days ago. Again, there’s a reason that irrelevant “franchise” hasn’t signed a top MLB free agent in over 2 decades. The players and their reps certainly know what the rest of us know. It’s a desperate, inept so called franchise.
Just last year Machado chose the F’n Padres over the south side. Not the Yanks, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox but the Padres.
This is the next Jordan Zimmerman contract
bryzzo_2016- WHITE Sux fans? You are a racist. Why you bring race into a Zack Wheeler conversation? And I never clamored for Wheeler. I want Bumgarner. And everyone I know calls them the Sox. Take your clever little user name and get your racist attitude straightened out.
Machado would have signed with the White Sox if they had matched San Diego’s offer. He wanted a $300m guarantee all along, White Sox said no.
Why are you adding the Cubs with the Dodger, Yanks and Red Sox. Should be St Louis, Dodgers Yanks and Red Sox. Cubs still suck…
You’re right. I wish the Sox would have upped the ante, but he isn’t worth 300M. They knew it.
But Philly odd a hitters ballpark, whereas Citi Field, while the fences were brought in, is still a harder stadium to hit in.
Hahaha, I love delusional lil fishies. Top easy. Soooo, over the last 5 years, the Cubs won more games than anyone in baseball, including 4 straight playoff appearances, 3 straight NLCS and a ring already in the bank with their young, CHAMPIONSHIP core still intact. The definition of elite……. Meanwhile, the clowns on the Southside have been a bottom feeder going on 8 years. Even when their clueless, inept front office claimed to be “All in” (ya know… when they traded Tatis Jr for James F’n Sheilds) yet went on to lose more games than teams that were literally ACTIVELY tanking. If the media and fans know this, you don’t think these star players and their reps know this?!?!
Hahaha, for your sake I hope ignorance truly is bliss.
errors count toward the era?
too much money, anyway you look at it. sad to see him go but Mets will be fine. Go get Teheran!
The Philly D is about the same as the Mets D but Philly plays in a hitter ball park and Citifield is more of a pitcher stadium
$23.6 million per year.
Yeah, but it might not, because where the Phillies play is worse for pitchers.
White Sox suck. – Ozzie Guillen
Livin in the past
many teams were willing tio take this gamble
@StandUpGuy
Please keep in mind Cole was a pitcher that had 3 consecutive ERAs of 2.60, 3.88 and 4.26 before being traded and with the mentorship of Verlander and buying in to the analytics provided to him. Maybe Phillie thinks they can bring out the best of his incredible stuff. It’s a sellers market.
He’s going to be a lot cheaper than Cole (by at least $125 mil) and likely a shorter length than what Cole projects to get.
The argument against the Yanks being beat out by the Nats for Corbin was their unwillingness to increase the risk factor. It’s legit to think that way but it’s a sellers market and you have to bite the bullet. It could actually end up being a smart buy.
“My gut has been wrong before, but it’s been right too.”
Like almost all of us, you’re either right or wrong, is that what you’re saying?
@tycobb016
But…there name is…..WHITEsox right? Never thought I would see the day where Ty freakin’ Cobb would call others racist.
That’s the pot calling the kettle a….well…. YOU know your favorite word.
southbeach- My name is Jimmy and I’m from Chicago and I’m not really Ty Cobb. Cobb has been dead for almost 60 years.
They actually said in a different article, he stated he took a little less money because his wife is from south jersey just outside of philly so she had a big desire to stay local.
2016>1988
bryzzo- you’re a joke bro. Another delusional cub fan… great you’ve won more games than any team in the last 5 years. Who cares… you have one title and one WS appearance to show for it. The Braves of the late 2010’s.
You have no farm system and an aging core, that Chub ownership dosn’t want to pay. Sox future is brighter than the cubs.
My point it’s a joke to compare the Chubs (or Sox) to St Louis, Dodgers, Yanks or B Sox. Chubs outside of the last 5 years are the worst franchise in MLB history.
krillin89: More importantly, the Phillies have a much better catcher and pitch-framer in J.T. Realmuto than what Zack Wheeler had to throw to with the Mets Wilson Ramos in 2019.
Arrieta?
I think he was capitalizing the first part of your teams name to emphasize his point that the vast majority of fans refer to Boston as the “Sox” and your team by it’s entire name. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
I’m going to go with “The next Jordan Zimmerman, Alex”.
OK, your clue is “Not as good or consistent as Jordan Zimmerman was, this Mets pitcher parlayed his barely above average results, when healthy, into a $118 million future payroll boat anchor for the Phillies in 2020”
@weaselpuppy
According to the numbers, Wheeler was a top 10 pitcher the last two years in WAR and FIP, His 9K/9 IP and his 44% GB rate are among the top 25. He can be a solid #2 on most teams.
John Middleton cowers before the mighty Yankees. Yanks want Gerrit Cole so Middleton says: “Yes Sir, Mr. Steinbrenner!”
This is an unbelievably bad deal. An injury prone pitcher who has been exactly league average for the entirely of his career gets $118m?!?! Absurd.
@Bernie’s Dander
Shouldn’t “injury prone” mean more than 1 major injury? He had TJ surgery and appears to be recovered. He actually ranks 12th in IP over the last 2 years. That suggests he’s as durable as most others. He’s thrown more innings than Stras the last 2 seasons.
Fair enough, Bully. He did miss 2 full seasons due to injury, but it’s not a pattern of injuries.
I guess my issue is with his performance. He’s never pitched 200 innings. He’s never been in the top 20 for Cy Young or made an all-star team. He’s a very average pitcher with a very average career stat line. There’s no way this contract works out well for PHI. It’s terrible.
@Bernie’s Dander
Most SP w TJ have bounced back to have succesful careers. In his last 2 seasons he’s been about a top 15 pitcher. No way is he “average”. I seem about the same as I see Corbin.
He’s not even close to Corbin. Wheeler’s ERA+ over the last 2 seasons: 102 & 112. Those are 3rd starter numbers. As for Corbin? ERA+ of 141 and 133 over the last 2 season. Corbin is a #1 on a lot of teams and great #2 anywhere.
Yes, thank you for your insightful comment
Said the desert to the grain of sand. Seriously, your comment is as useful to the topic as a brick is for soaking up a puddle of water.
$450M locked up with 2 players….insane.
Overpay
I did not want him to stay in the division.. ahh, best of luck Zack.
Same
Busy day
Explains why they didn’t reunite with Hamels.
No, not really. The plan has always been to add TWO starters. Signing Hamels wouldn’t have stopped them from signing Wheeler.
Yes! That’s one!
Can Phillies fans finally shut up on this site about their GM now?
Nope. They’ll still complain
And complain and complain. It’s in their blood to complain about their GM
And throw batteries at their players.
Best fans in all of sports. Ask Mike Trout
And luckily for J.D. Drew, their accuracy at throwing Duracells isn’t great.
Cubs have the best fans. They sellout when its 40 degrees in april. Everyone is bias to their own team though.
Why batteries?
Because they hurt more.
Yeah, because you’re wrong.
I have been to many April Cubs game over the years with plenty of empty seats. I also know several Cubs fans that do not like to go to Wrigley as much as they once did due to the fans in the bleachers. Although, most of them are now in their late 30’s early 40’s so slamming beers for 3 hours or being around people slamming beers for 3 hours doesn’t have the appeal it once did.
Yeah the cubs fan argument is a bad one, it’s a tourist trap and largely is attended for work outings or by visitors. They out-priced their most valued fans and alienated the surrounding neighborhood.
Well this is organization that went with Rueben Amaro far, far past his expiration date so perhaps it is PTSD.
Poor neighbors can’t leach free games anymore
There’s one in particular that gives us a bad name haha.
Based on the empty seats I saw last year those people only care about the Eagles and Flyers. If the Phillies just so happen to be good it’s a bonus.
Phillies are sillies Buha ha ha
the mets are the mess or muts
Interesting comment since they had pretty high attendance records last year, even when they were unwatchable…which they were…often.
i tell you, as a Phillies fan, that everyone’s hatred for Klentak is absurd. there was no way he could have (realistically) made over the team any more dramatically last offseason, especially with the available options. that being said, he certainly dropped the ball in making an affordable signing, (ie Gio) but i think he gets more flak than he deserves.
Worst GM I’ve ever seen. Amaro’s worst year is better than Klentak’s best will ever be.
All the best work of the rebuild was done by Amaro in the first year it was admitted to by Middleton.
Did Klentak stuff you into a locker in middle school? That’s the only way to begin to justify your hatred for him.
ForestCobra has a personal vendetta against the Phillies and has been posting nonsensical diatribes all day.
He’s just a troll trying to get a rise out of people. Ignore him and he’ll shut up it’s that easy
Yeah, I’ve read FCA’s comments and more than once hit the reply tab,
THEN I took a moment to visualize who’s behind the keyboard and decided to move on. He is either a lonely troll or just simply someone who is so impassioned about who he despises he can’t help himself…..In either rendition….not worth it.
That Segura trade was pretty solid
Horrible signing.
$118 million for hot garbage when the best pitcher in MLB is available.
Bad bait
Nice!!!
Man, all I see is an Arrieta 2.0. Call me a skeptic I guess.
Arrieta was 5 years older and already in decline. Wheeler is 5 years younger and while inconsistent is coming off his two best years. He is getting better. They have him for his prime. And will be out of contract once he is 34. It’s definitely a gamble but any starting pitching signing is a gamble.
You mean win a cy young and be dominant from age 29-32 (3 of the 5 years of his contract)????
No I definitely don’t mean that. More like sign with the Phillies and then be terrible. I figured that was implied, but I guess I have to spell it out.
Wheeler has been a decidedly mediocre pitcher, and at this age probably (key word, probably) doesn’t have any untapped potential left; what you see is what you get. Maybe he unlocks something else, but I’m glad it’s not my team rolling the dice on this.
Look at his stats. He has hardly been mediocre. Is this an overpay? Yes. There’s reason to be wary, particular with his injuries. Is Wheeler mediocre? Not at all. There are stats that any one of us can look up before spouting a comment that is completely false.
Overpay? It’s a steal
Ok, so a WHIP of around 1.3, 3 BB/9, ERA in the high 3’s, only a couple of complete seasons. Are those bad numbers? No. Mediocre? Very. He’s got good strikeout numbers, but the rest of the results have not followed.
He was 2% above league average last year (ERA+ of 102). League average is essentially the definition of mediocre.
How does that make any sense???
He may be but he hasn’t thrown nearly as many innings as Arrieta and is younger than Arrieta when he signed.
Arrieta was not looking good toward the end of his tenure with the Cubs. Velo was down. Opponent hard hit contact was up. His stuff wasn’t as sharp. Wheeler still looks good. That’s why teams stayed away from Arrieta and why clubs were in on Wheeler
Arrieta was a better signing then this one.
It’s not even close.
Well, one of your two statements is correct…
Arrieta was already on the decline when the Phils signed him. Wheeler just pitched his best season of baseball. Apples and oranges.
Wheelers 2018 was much, much better than his 2019. He was 12% better than league average in 2018 and 2% better than average in 2019 according to ERA+. These are stats that any one of us can look up.
The Mets were 29th in DRS last year. Lets not pretend that doesn’t matter now
Thumbs up for the call back. His 2018 and 2019 seasons were very similar. Both above league average. More strikeouts in 2019, but higher ERA. 11 and 8 vs 12 and 7. My point being, Wheeler turned a corner the last two years going from an okay pitcher to a good pitcher. Many teams believe he has a high ceiling and will continue to improve. He’s not being paid for what he’s done. He’s being paid for what people think he will do. Will he ever reach that ceiling? Maybe not. Maybe he’ll be a huge bust. But I don’t believe it’s fair to call him mediocre.
Also look at Wheeler’s post All-Star break numbers in 2019. They were better than deGroms. So that’s why I consider 2019 the stronger season, but you’re technically correct with the stats you pulled. And I give you props for the callback to my quote. You got me there. :)
@ForestCobraAL
Logically, how can you compare the past of Arrieta to the future of Wheeler? Doesn’t compute dude. Wheeler is 2 years younger and has better stuff.
Why would you draw this parallel? JA and ZW, other then being power pitchers are/were nothing alike at the time of signing. Age difference, projections, recent success trends all different, ZW seems more like his worse outcome is AJ Burnett 2.0 (not a terrible outcome) but his ceiling looks very Cole. I’m not kidding, go to baseballsavant yourself and look at his stats, he’s begging for a smart org to cut him loose. All of his pitches are above average to top shelf (statistically) and this idea that he’s injury prone is non sense. He missed quite a bit of time for tommy John because while in recovery he experienced soreness, but this can happen to the best pitchers after TJ and he’s almost pitched 400 innings the last 2 years. Don’t take my word for it, go to FanGraphs, baseball-reference, baseballsavant and others and read the writing look at the stats, if this is Jake Arrieta 2.0 it’s the one the Cubs got not the Phillies, this could be the steal of the offseason which is weird to say about a guy that just got $118mil.
You gotta love the Phillies!!
You gotta love the Phillies if you’re a Braves fan.
They’re so easy to beat.
Actually the Braves were one of the few NL East teams the Phillies faired okay against. The Phillies won the season series 10 games to 9. The Phillies had a losing record against the Marlins.
Only because they played the first series of the year, and got to win against 2 triple AAA guys in Wright and Wilson, with one of the worst bullpens in the league and swept the first series. If winning a series 10-9 while being outscored by 1.5 runs per game on average despite all that gets you excited, Ill try not to use any more stats to take that away.
Wont even mention how the other series they won, the Braves were 30 games over .500 and resting half their lineup for the playoffs.
Oops…
Ill stop now. Good signing bro.
You could also make the argument that the games the Phillies lost were played without Cutch and 99% of the Phillies bullpen. But I’d be a fool to say the Phillies were ever in the Braves weight class. The Braves are a significantly better team abd likely will be again this tear. I don’t deny it.
Glad he isn’t becoming a Red!
I believe you. Wheeler wasn’t worth more than $75 million for five years.
right, because you know more about the market than the ACTUAL market does. 5-6 teams were willing to pay 100 mil for this guy, so your statement is just plain ignorant.
Well, one out of the Strasburg sweepstakes. That’s good.
Not necessarily. If they sign Gerrit Cole, however, then I would concur.
That’s the thing. Philly is a big market. They’re certainly not out on Stras. They’re in an odd situation because they’re a win-now team with a lot of holes to fill. I can see them going over the luxury tax threshold this season. I would say they’re still willing to go after Stras and maybe (although unlikely) Cole.
As a Yankee fan and ex-Philly resident of 20 years, I hope the Phillies go all in on either Stras or G Cole and make a real NL East horse race out of it with Atlanta and DC. I’d love to see it. After everything management has already put into it, they and the fans deserve some serious postseason action, Good luck.
Hmm … maybe it’s just the fact that it’s the Phillies, but I think this one has major dud written all over it. He’s uber talented and still quite young, but his history of effective pitching is really really short for a five year deal like this.
Ok Klantak, keep going…
Too many fans are obsessed with what players have done. Not enough fans are focused on what players will potentially do. You could invest in Amazon now, but you’re late to the game – everyone knows it’s a great buy, or you could have invested in before it turned into an ace.
Investing thousands of dollars in a lesser known stock is different than investing a few hundred….. Everyone gets that you have to project for the future, but thats a lot of money for a guy who only has a couple years of proven output.
With pitchers, you’re paying a premium due to the fact that the supply of top of the rotation guys is minimal. Wheeler has probably been a #3 at best to this point, and he’s being paid as a #2. If he’s healthy, he’s worth the $… people smarter than you or I have a better understanding of his health situation.
And the FA starters over the next two years are mostly non-impactful, unless you think Mad Max and Kersh reverse the hands of time in the next two years.
Under that auspices, and IF you believe Wheeler is a #2, the signing is more than justifiable. IMHO, if Wheeler had spent the last couple of years in Kansas City instead of New York, he’d be looking at 3/45. He’s been above average, but not a whole lot.
Thats makes him the 9th highest paid SP(Right now will be 11th after Strasburg Nd Cole) I would say thats Low end #1 money.
That’s before market adjustment kicks in. Let’s face it – there aren’t that many #1 and #2 pitchers out there. A lot of teams don’t even have a #1, some don’t have a #2.
Look at the Orioles, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Royals, White Sox, Tigers, Mariners, Rangers, Angels, A’s, Giants, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Cubs, Brewers, Pirates, Braves and Marlins – name me a pitcher on any of those teams that is better than Wheeler. There are some comparable ones like Giolito, Ohtani, Lester, Hendricks, but Wheeler would be the ace on most of those teams. He wasn’t overpaid.
Wheeler is not the ace on Boston, Texas, Atlanta, Milwaukee, ChiCubs. This was the biggest overpay for the output Wheeler has had up to date. He is being paid on what he could do, not what he’s done.
What pitcher on those teams would you be willing to give $100mil to if you were a GM? Anyone more than Wheeler?
Cubs: Darvish, Brewers: Woodruff; Rangers: Minor; Tigers: Boyd; Rockies: Gray… that was just off the top of my head, I’m sure there are more. Wheeler is around the 30-40th best pitcher in baseball and got paid like he’s in the T15, thats an overpay imo
Soroka
Yea, I missed Soroka.
@augold5
I think the last 2 years are what’s relevant and he has absolutely a top 15 guy if you look at his 2017-2018 seasons. And Boyd? Boyd is better than Wheeler? By what standards
K’s – The only things that matter in baseball for pitchers these days. Pitching to contact and actually getting guys out is 100% luck.
+augold
Im not big on Wheeler but Boyd aint that good, lets be honest.
and the angels were a close second place…..again
Wow wasn’t expecting that. Better Philly than Houston
Every fan of every team is saying that.
“Thanks for saving us Matt Klentak and don’t every get hired as our GM.”
The Phillies and their stupid money strike again. Hope this one pays off for them, last season was depressing!
This is the worst signing of all.
The White Sox only make under the radar moves. All the rumors about Wheeler and the Sox made no sense.
That’s why I think they will sign Strasburg.
ramonskee- interesting take hope you are right about Strasburg
I had the exact same suspicion. If White Sox are all over the news then it ain’t happening.
The White Sox were heavily tied to Luis Robert and Jose Abreu and it still happened.
Wrong! No decent player will sign with the Chisox because they are a deadbeat franchise. I predicted on an earlier post, today: the white Sox will offer $25/M for one year – and claim they were the high bidder. Looks close to what might have happened. They won’t deliver for their fan base unless Reinsdorf can do it, on the cheap.
They signed the 2nd best catcher in baseball and 3 year extension to a decent 1B like a week ago
@Dumbbone – The Sox offered him more TOTAL money over five years, per Ken Rosenthal. Go read Cubs headlines and stay out of White Sox business. I’m hearing Theo is going to sign Bartolo Colon.
Exactly, the White Sox weren’t outbid, they’re just the White Sox. There’s a reason that poverty franchise hasn’t signed a stud proven MLB free agent in his prime in over 2 decades (Joey or Albert Belle) It’s a thirsty, inept franchise. Machado chose the lowly Padres over the South Side. Haha, my favorite part of this thread is the meatball homer saying Grandal is the 2nd best catcher in baseball. HAHAHAHA… WHAT?!?! No wonder their dwindling fanbase is obsessed w/ anything Cubs.
Can you blame the White Sox? They saw the terrible signings by Theo and Papa Ricketts (Heyward, Darvish, Chatwood, Morrow, Kimbrel, etc) and got scared off.
How’s that Cubs dynasty coming along? Never thought any fan base can be more hated than the Red Sox, but you guys found a way. Congrats!
White Sox will surprise everyone by signing Cole or Strasberg to a very huge amount of money.
From your mouth to God’s ears. Divine intervention would likely need to occur with this outcome anyway.
No they won’t. Nor should they.
The White Sox are trying to overpay top guys to come play for them. They are being used as leverage. Hate to break it to you.
Guys can get paid and go to contenders, and when you’re talking hundreds of millions on these big deals, why live and play anywhere other than where you want to be, when you are still rich, either way to the point it makes little difference in how they’ll live their lives?
If you are an average player, a 20% overpay actually means something though.
This
Name ONE player the white Sox have overpaid for thus far? Forget rumors – link me to a contract signing.
White Sox have been fortunate to avoid the holes the Red Sox and Cubs are in right now. The Padres (Hosmer, Machado, someone else they overpay this offseason) and Phillies (Arrieta, Harper, Wheeler) are next in line.
Every MLB team has contracts they come to regret. In hindsight, the White Sox would have liked to reverse their extension to John Danks and kept FA Mark Buehrle around one last time before he retired. I’m sure they would have also liked to undo their FA deals with the two Adams, Dunn and LaRoche.
That said, a team can’t be as badly burned if they don’t actually spend exorbitantly in free agency like the White Sox have been reluctant to do, especially with pitchers.
Note: The Zack Wheeler shun was hardly the first when it comes to the White Sox losing out on a free agent they reportedly offered more dollars to. I recall them offering more money to Japanese FA outfielder who decided to sign with the Cubs instead. It was also reported that the White Sox had the top FA bid for Yoenis Cespedes when he opted out of his first FA contract with the Mets after just one season. Cespedes preferred the limelight of NYC to Chicago’s southside. Players rejecting both of their higher bids worked out well for the White Sox due to underperformance or injury.
For the Phillies, Cole or Strasburg might have been better fits. There is still a long way to go unless Wheeler is the best they could do with their budget. The Harper signing may come back to bite them if they can’t build up the rotation.
The Phillies can’t hit.
$24M per for Wheeler?? No thank you.
$18M for a 37 year old Hamels, or $6M more for a 29 year old in his prime.
This has to all but guarantee that Cole will get more than $35M per, right?
I think you mean $107M more? Braves are staying flexible in the near term with their move, while the Phils continue to try to tie themselves to the bottom of the ocean for the next decade.
@HereComeThePhillies2045 … not sure that math is your strong suit, buddy.
Lol
If Wheeler blows his arm out the first month of the season and is never the same guy, you still owe hundreds of millions. The risk involved on a longterm deal, is figured in. As others have said, your math is off.
There’s risk involved with any signing. Hes been very durable for the past 2 years and has gotten the TJS out of the way.
I think a lot of people on here are gonna feel stupid when Nola AND Wheeler finish in the top 10 in NL Cy Young next year.
But you are all entitled to your opinion.
You changed from Phillies2018 to 2020 really fast. Better reserve 2021 thru 2029 very fast!
As a White Sox fan, I’m doing a fair bit of swearing right now.
Why? That’s too much for the Sox payroll for an inferior player to Cole, Strasburg, or Ryu. Be mad if those three slip through the cracks.
Not interested in Ryu. Too old and usually injured, even more than Wheeler. Hahn would sign Cole or Strasburg, but we know Reinsdorf won’t part with that much money for a pitcher. MadBum is a potential target, but has a lot of innings on that arm and supposedly prefers the NL so he can bat.
IMO Ryu will have a great year. He’s still good.
Reinsdorf is getting pretty old and has tons of money. He should know you can’t take it with you. After losing out on Wheeler, he’s going to be all in on Cole or Strasberg. He’s going to be desperate to get another baseball championship.
“Slip through the cracks?” The Sox are maybe going after MadBum. Are they even looking at the other three?
watch, they’ll get Cole.
Cole isn’t even on their radar.
He is now!
Ugh. Really wanted the Braves to get him but his cost really was too much to begin with and only was getting higher. This market is crazy… Phillies gonna be in debt for generations with these crazy contracts that are forking out
They’ll regret the Harper overpay within 5 years. And they’ll have 8 years left.
*stupid money*, but that is the market…
RENDON and GERRIT COLE are SMART MONEY
Depends on the amount. $275MM for either one is over the top. Should be $250MM or less.
Wow!!! That’s a lot of money & risk for an SP with just two full seasons under his belt. Congrats to Wheeler on “wheeling” in that lucrative contract.
Hey, I finally got one right.
When this dance is over, it’s a strong possibility the Angels are going to end up without a chair.
Lots of impact names still left. Cole, Strasburg, Ryu, Keuchel, Bumgarner, PIneda, Roark. Of course, you could be right, I’m just not sure it is a ‘strong’ possibility.
High risk. High reward. I like the signing and I see Wheeler having the potential to become a DeGrom type. That being said, I can also see this move blowing up in the Phillies face and Wheeler being another Arrieta.
The fact of the matter is the Phillies rotation is a lot better than it was last year. Wheeler is essentially replacing Pivetta and that’s a major improvement. The team still has holes to fill, including another starting pitcher. Even though this is a bit of an overpay, I think the team will still be in on Stras and MadBum.
Do you really think he has the potential to become a DeGrom type? Like, really?
Absolutely.
A few years ago no one expected deGrom to be what he is now. In fact, everyone was touting Noah Syndergaard as the Mets ace. Over the last two years Wheeler has shown real impressive growth. Similar to what deGrom did before he turned a corner. Now, I think Wheeler turning into a legit ace is being extremely optimistic, but I can see it. I can also see Wheeler turning into an Arrieta-type bust. I’d be happy if he becomes a solid #2. Regardless, I give the Phils credit for pulling the trigger on a risky move like this. The team has some great pieces, but needs more to go to the next level. This is a move that helps them accomplish that.
Definitely an overpay, but that’s what the market seems to be for these guys.
Lawdy!!! Sorry guy, he’s a #3, that’s who he is. If you didn’t think DeGrom could’ve developed into what he is, you were not paying attention. Look at their professional baseball careers. Signs of DeGrom being elite were always there. Wheeler is a #3, and has never performed better than that. Not at any level of professional ball. Wheeler is the today’s AJ Burnett. That’s a fairer comparison. Expect the same results.
Look at Wheeler and deGrom’s 2019 numbers after the All-Star break. My comments won’t seem so silly then.
So your comment is based on his flash in the pan moment for less than half of one season, and that is somehow, in your mind, a better predictor than years of history in professional ball at the minors and majors. Okay, you got a winner there. You’ve convinced me, Wheeler has the potential be a DeGrom type. Smh…
I mean he’s shown brilliant flashes late in the season twice. He’s a young pitcher (more in terms of mileage than age). He’s constantly been improving. He has shown ace-type stuff. He hasn’t shown a ful-season of ace-type stuff though. I’m not saying he will ever be a deGrom type, but I am saying he has shown potential to turn into that. The Phillies are paying for his potential which may never happen, but you take those chances if you can afford them. I personally think the Phillies will be very happen if he morphs into a really solid #2. They already have an ace in Nola.
I think the Phillies are far from finished and may even be in the Cole sweepstakes. Keuchel would be a nice fit to slide into the #3 in between Wheeler and Arrieta, splitting up the right handers. If they get another starter they essentially have addressed the bullpen, as VV & Pivetta might be better suited for the ‘pen. As a matter of fact, I think VV & Pivetta would be excellent relievers considering the stuff they posses.
exactly
A Degrom type? You mean winning back-2-back cy-youngs? You must be out of your mind.
Phillies fans are the dumbest in the game.
A bunch of Iggles and Penn State footballers killing time until training camp.
I said has the potential to be a deGrom type. He’s a long way from deGrom, but not too long ago, deGrom was a long way from where he’s at now. Wheeler turned a bit of a corner last season. I think there’s still room for growth. Remember the Mets thought Harvey and then Syndergaard were their aces while deGrom was in the rotation. deGrom really impressed the last two seasons. I think Wheeler can show similar growth (while likely never being as dominant as deGrom.)
I also think Wheeler can be a huge bust. But you got to take chances when you can afford it.
That’s one down off the checklist. Now we need another starter, preferably a lefty- Keuchel? And a 3B. I believe Donaldson is very much on the Phillies radar.
Now if we can just find a way to rid ourselves of Odubel Hererra and possibly acquire a Kiermaier, Buxton or Marte we’d be in great shape.
Would like to see them improve around the margins with Billy Hamilton and maybe that young INF the Reds non-tendered as depth up the middle. If nothing comes to fruition with a CF maybe Kingery sticks there and we bring in one the plethora of cheap 2B options out there i.e. Dozier
Isn’t your $ so shut up! CrewBrew, you seem like a bitter not very knowledgeable dote! Go away hater! Go Philly!!
I hate the “it isn’t your money” argument. You’re correct, but that’s a very shortsighted way of viewing things. It’s a team whose fans want to see succeed, and if the team ties down too much money on a player fans don’t think is worth it, it may affect the team’s ability to go after other impact players, especially if the contract goes south. No the team’s ownership isn’t going to suffer much if they overpay some players, but the team itself could, as could fans if they have to watch an inferior on field product.
i got called a dote…guys how should i feel about this?
I think you should feel honored. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s a term of endearment.
Doh! – Homer Simpson
you’ll never come back from this one. might as well haul off to Tibet where you can live out the rest of your days in solitary shame.
Now don’t go settle for MadBum or Keuchel, Rick Hahn!!
Who should he settle for insteady? Wade Miley, Alex Wood, Rich Hill or Drew Smyly. C’mon, Paulie. You weren’t exactly all-in for Zack Wheeler either.
I’m guessing you’d settle for Hyun-Jin Ryu. I’d be fine with him as well but would also be happy with the White Sox signing a proven winner like Madison Bumgarner or Mark Buehrle ‘clone’ Dallas Keuchel. We’d both be most thrilled with a Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg signing but know that is a pipe dream.
I still expect the White Sox to come away with one ‘TOR’ along with adding a backend veteran starter for their rotation in 2020. One figures to be a southpaw, likely their ‘TOR’ from among Madbum, Keuchel or Ryu. Hahn then figures to add a veteran RHP in the bottom tier of top-50 FA’s to a one year contract.
The possibility also remains that Hahn could find a solid SP via the trade market where he will also likely target his core lefty hitting RF since the current FA market is lacking with that type of player.
Big time overpay.
I’m hearing 5yrs/$120MM. I hope the White Sox have a plan here. Missing out on all the top pitching FAs would be very bad for them. I have faith in Hahn to get the player(s) they need to end the rebuild and finally contend in 2020. Getting a little nervous, though.
You should be thrilled the Sox didn’t sign Wheeler to that deal. 29 years old and his numbers aren’t that great to begin with. This deal will not age well at all. Paying him 24M per at 32,33,34 will be brutal. Why not just throw 32M per at Cole instead over 6 years?
I don’t agree with your assessment of Wheeler; he was pretty good the last two years, and overall really solid career despite the injuries. If the Sox get at least one of the top FA pitchers, it’ll be a successful offseason for the Sox. If not, it’s business as usual in Chicago.
Because Cole will likely cost 35-38m per, that’s why.
Great. Give it to him.
I agree Priggs89. I would give Cole 6/240 and consider myself lucky. He’s the BEST picture in baseball, period. You can count on him for 20 wins next year with the White Sox.
I’m glad he turned it down now we can focus that money on the other SP and shows that Sox FO are indeed putting up the money and not being cheap.
PHA
Close to $120 million over 5 years definitely feels like an overpay of about $20 million. For an extra guaranteed year and $6 million more per year you could make a run at Strasburg.
Close to 120 million thank god my white Sox didn’t do that!
They offered MORE THAN THAT!!
Phillies are trash. They don’t know how to build a winning team so all the day is sign big name free agents or trade for them.
This.
They’re building their roster from a position of desperation for household names. Plus, they haven’t drafted well, so their core talent is this. Not smart. They’ll end up with a marginal roster that’s way overpriced and impossible to move for a long time.
*is thin (damn iPhone) hah.
This brilliant observation, from. White Sox fan. Wow. Now, tell us all about your dumpster diving team and about their on going 8 year’rebuild’.
I never understand the venomous anger some commenters have for some teams. Really? It bothers you so much you have to call them trash? Get a life. And I’m not even a Phillies fan.
i really need to know what specific events are the causes of this rage. if its some random event eagles fans did in the 90s, i dont think it’s relevant. i imagine most of these critics have been this way since before i was alive, which is what makes it so annoying to me.
I guess 07-12 didn’t exist then?
“all they do is sign big name free agents or trade for them.”
uhhhh that’s like 2/3rds of the entire puzzle, you moron.
How to build a winning team:
1) Draft and develop an awesome, cost-controlled core.
2) Spend money on key FA to supplement aforementioned core.
3) Trade from positions of relative strength to address areas of need.
Well, as you mentioned, the Phillies are doing two of the three things necessary for success. Sure, they’ve swung and missed a bit on the most important ingredient (#1), but at least they have an owner willing to try to make up for it by being aggressive on #2 and #3.
Not sure how this makes them “trash.” Seems like you’re just a butthurt Mets fan, angry that ownership will not work to improve the squad.
I like Wheeler, but not for $120 million.
I understand your point, but if he pitches like the last two years, at least he has a chance to be a bargain.
This is the 9th highest AAV for any pitcher in MLB, and not a short term either. it certainly may not be as bad as all the initial reactions on here, but it’s really tough to see a scenario where it qualifies as a “bargain.”
one forgets many good pitchers are in arb years, and many have signed cheap extensions. for teams needing pitching, you’re not usually getting a huge bargain unless you take a risk and get lucky. when it comes down to it, this was the minimum (given the other higher offers) price to get Wheeler, suggesting that the Phillies got a bargain of sorts. while i dont like the deal too much myself as a fan, id say there weren’t exactly a lot of other options.
It’s the market and the market rules.
I was hoping the Sox would get him, but at that price? Eh, I’m not too sad about them getting outbid. I know it’s not my money, but Reinsdorf hasn’t typically spent a ton and if he does, I’d rather it be on a player that has a better shot of earning it than Wheeler. I hope they pivot to Cole or Strasburg, but something tells me they might wind up going the trade market or waiting until next year on an ace. Hope I’m wrong.
I doubt White Sox and Mets fans are liking this much
Sox fan here. I like they didn’t sign him. Best FA pitchers still out there. I want them to sign Bumgarner because i know they won’t put up Strasburg Cole money. But I think Bumgarner has the fire I feel Sox need.
Sox fan here – yeah disappointed but in Hahn we trust babe!
DunnComments- No we don’t trust Hahn. We tolerate Hahn.
We trust Hahn, not Reinsdorf and his lap dog KW.
Hahn is same as Kenny.
I trust Hahn. He’s made several outstanding trades. Now he needs to sign the biggest fish out there in free agency.
kroeg49- I hope you are right about signing the biggest fish out there.
sox apparently had the high bid on the table, but wheeler wanted to live closer to his mother-in-law. this is… not great.
If that’s true this is embarrassing
Sox fan here and I’m also glad they didnt sign him,.. at least not at that price. I liked him as a low cost alternative to cole and Stas, but now it sounds like we will either have to jump in with the others or be creative with a trade.
PHA
Sox fan – not mad. Looking forward to the idiot Cubs fans saying how cheap the Sox are despite offering the most money. Will be interested to see where they pivot to.
24 mill a year is a lot but at least there taking a shot. Now they need a 3rd baseman.
GERRIT COLE is “Taking a shot”
This is hiding from Gerrit Cole and Scott Boras.
SCAM
FELONY FRAUD
I just don’t get this one. At all. What does this leave Cole in line to get, like $35-$40M AAV?
Cole was already in line for that AAV before this.
Yup.
Not from John Middleton!
Merry Christmas to you Phillies fans. Not Gerrit Cole, a lump of real coal in your stocking.
Lol. I love you man. You’ve been making me laugh for about 10 minutes now. I mean that seriously. You and clepto are 2 of my favorite posters.
If you love him so much, please, take him with you to all of the Braves threads. His anti-Middleton schtick was tired and lame last year, too, when he wanted HARPER AND MACHADO. Now he wants COLE AND RENDON. Next year, MOOKIE AND SPRINGER. Dude is clueless.
I was thinking the same this market is going nuts. So much for cheap starter
Wow, saw him getting close to 100m, but, 5/120M is slightly shocking.
Well $100MM was his market value. With four or five teams bidding, it was bound to be higher.
I really expected the White Sox to win this sweepstakes. Oh well. On to unsuccessfully bidding on Strasburg, followed by “Hey, I heard Taijuan Walker might be ok.”
I’m sure the Sox knew they’d have to throw a lot of money at these starting pitchers to get them. I’m hoping they do this with Cole or Strasburg. If that wasn’t the plan to begin with, the Sox will have pulled another fast one on the fanbase. Either clear $250MM for one of these guys heading into the offseason, or shut your mouth about spending or contending. Grandal alone nowhere near enough.
Phillies haven’t learned anything. when stupid doesn’t work at first, double down on it!
Harper worked big time. He had a really solid year. 1 player can’t turn a team into a World Series winner. The Phillies weren’t expecting that,
It was the other players that stunk. This move helps remedy some of that.
Lol. Going down with the ship huh? Adam Duvall could have given you the production your 330 million guy gave y’all. 330 million to a .250 hitter…think about that..
.260 actually but .340ish with RISP. 36 HR, 125 RBI. He also plays a solid RF. His signing was more than just bringing in an all-star caliber player. It was a symbol of the Phillies owndership’s unwavering commitment to win. It re-energized a fan base and paid itself back with all the added ticket and Harper merchandise revenue.
You could, ya know, just draft well, lock down your home grown talent early, and fill in holes with short term free agents, while waiting on more young talent to arrive. Like, idk…the Braves. You don’t win relying on long term free agent contracts.
Adam Duvall? Stop
First of all he hit .260. He also was at the top of the league at average with runners in scoring position. He was a gold glove nominee. 35 home runs. 114 RBIs. Adam Duvall had 19 RBIs. Hit .267. 10 homers. Less at bats of course, but I don’t really see their production being anywhere near equal unless you blindly look at average.
It’s actually about the exact same production if you assume Duvall would have had equal ABs. Thanks for playing though. That energy Bryce brought back to Philly will be gone real quick when you’re 4th in the division next year. “Unwavering commitment to win” lol. Quit drinking the kool aid.
You’re going to be eating the koolaid out of the pack when they win they division
Harper wasn’t dumb at all. John Middleton will make money off of him.
Yo monday moose, and today wheeler and hamels…. woah
The Phillies have just made the mistake of the off season
BOOM!
Because John Middleton wants to put Gerrit Cole’s money in John Middleton’s bank account every year,
The Phils definitely overpaid for Wheeler. They still have so many holes to fill, and a bullpen that is mediocre at best. The Braves stocked up on a decent bullpen, and the Phils still have to beat the Braves as well as DC. The Phils do have some quality position players, but unless they start adding more quality players, they are still facing a 3rd place finish behind DC and Atlanta, who both have better overall teams as of now. I know some people rave about the new manager, Girardi, but Girardi is only good when he has an all-star lineup.
The Phillies can’t hit.
Look it up.
The Phillies can’t hit.
@ForestCobraAL Did you not understand my comment? Obviously, you didn’t.. If you read it again, you will see where I mentioned the Phils have a lot of holes to fill, and DC and Atlanta have better overall talent. Your response seems absurd. The Phils do have 3 decent hitters, but that will only give them a 3rd place finish at best. So they have a lot of holes to fill in all areas. Not sure why you gave such an absurd response. So look up, and reread my comment.
I hear ya No Soup. Its a double edge sword. If Phillies wouldn’t have given him the money another team would have. Then Phil fans would be screaming again. Its a tough business
ugh lovely. this contract is going to turn out horribly.
He obviously didn’t consult Bill Burr.
118 over 5 years. Wow. Just wow. Darvish – who strikes out a lot more hitters and has a significantly better career WHIP and WAR went for 6 and 126 just two years ago.
Terrible comparison
Yeah, I mean Darvish was only one of the best pitchers in all of baseball the last 4 months of the season.
I would have brought him back at those numbers but the Wilpons are the Wilpons so a 29 year old coming off two straight four war seasons with potential for more goes elsewhere while they’ll sign a washed up Porcello.
Paying for potential in the case is risky but worth it. Think the Phillies had to do it or go even higher on Cole or Stras. They needed a TOR arm and they got one. Let’s see what they do to fill their other holes.
Wheeler is a fourth starter.
A #4
Lol, Zach Wheeler a TOR arm. Delusional
way too much for a 3rd starter
Definitely, and Wheeler is only a #4.
Overpay
As a Yankees fan would have loved Wheeler but not at that contract. Once I heard the bidding went to 100 million I thought this had the Phillies all over it. A few years from now they still will not have a World Series and will have these albatross contracts they will not be able to move.
You’re getting Gerrit Cole.
John Middleton isn’t bidding against the Yankees. Middleton knows who his superiors are and when to bend the knee in front of them.
LMAO. $118 million for a #3.
#4
I wasn’t feeling this after it pushed north of 100 mill. He’s really good, and I’m not saying he isn’t worth it, but Im still getting over that Homer Bailey debacle. If Reds are gonna spend big it really needs to be offense this year.
For those saying Wheeler was overpaid, name a better starting pitcher from the following teams: Orioles, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Royals, White Sox, Tigers, Mariners, Rangers, Angels, A’s, Giants, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Cubs, Brewers, Pirates, Braves and Marlins.
Giolito
Yes, Giolito. I think Kopeck even has a higher upside.
Soroka, Fried, Hamels, thats just 3 from the Braves. I can go on if you want.
Hamels is not better than Wheeler, not even close.
Max Fried better than Wheeler? Stop
Giolito
Sale, Woodruff, Minor…Wheeler lives in the NL East. The best place to be if you are a pitcher.
Sale, Giolito, Minor, Lynn, Ohtani, Weaver, Hendricks, Soroka
Mike Soroka for Atlanta.
Mike Soroka
Enjoy Wheeler and his 102 ERA+ in that bandbox you call a stadium Phillies!
Ah…. the dreaded “family considerations” — let’s hope these other pitchers don’t consider their families.
Wheeler is no different from Corbin. Number 3’s being paid and expected to perform like #1’s. I will give the Phillies the benefit of the nod though. They are committed to winning while the Braves are still ignorantly banking on their terrible pitching prospects.
Corbin was significantly better than Wheeler in his contract year.
Corbin FIP 2.47, xFIP 2.61, fWAR 5.9, 200 IP
Wheeler FIP 3.48, xFIP 4.06, fWAR 4.7, 195.1 IP
Wow! I don’t see the Phillies being bale to win with so much money tied up in Harper and Wheeler.. They had no chemistry in 2019 and I don’t see that changing. Wheeler would have been better served going to Minnesota. where there is good young core to support him.
bale?
able
Phillies have a great core! Sounds like the move to Minnesota or Chicago eliminated them. Happy wife, happy life.
I love it. Zack gets to brutalize the Mets for the next 5 years!
People are all talking about the overpay. It’s not an overpay if that’s what the market rate is. I believe he was getting serious attention, attention that drove the price to what was paid. This is a free market society. Demand drives price. This is what it costs for the best pitcher after G Cole and Stras. Does it sound high? Sure. But it’s the going rate in this market. Let’s remember Hamels went for $18MM. Now let’s see what MadBum goes for. I believe it will roundly be declared an overpay. Surprise, surprise.
Its not an overpay?? A guy that has never thrown more than 200 innings in a year and is always hurt, its not an overpay?? Zach Wheeler is 6-5 with an ERA of 4.04 in 14 career starts against the #Braves. He is 5-10 with an ERA of 5.01 against the Nationals in 18 career starts. Only team in the East he has done well against is the Marlins.
Obviously not in this market. If several teams were looking to pay something in the area of $100MM, that’s what he’s worth among the available SP’s. He is by all accounts the 3rd best SP on the market. If you don’t want to or can’t spend Stras or Cole money on a pitcher then Wheeler’s your man. And many, many teams don’t want to/can’t spend Stras or Cole money, making for a strong market for Wheeler. It’s supply and demand, man. Supply and demand.
Overpay for an average player.
Phillies being stupid, AGAIN!!! Good for them, at least they are consistent. This wont help them at all, I mean sure, when Wheeler faces the Marlins or the Central Division, they will be fine, but this wont help within the division, AT ALL…
.Zach Wheeler is 6-5 with an ERA of 4.04 in 14 career starts against the #Braves. He is 5-10 with an ERA of 5.01 against the Nationals in 18 career starts. Only team in the East he has done well against is the Marlins, but, come on, its the Marlins. No, this wont help Phillies at all, again, a stupid stupid move, AND on top of that, they overpaid for a guy who has never once pitched more than 200 innings in a year. He is always injured as well. Good luck there buddy, welcome the next Jake Arrieta to the team!!!!
I disagree completely!
And White Sox had a higher offer. LMAO.
They always have the high bid and always lose out. Lets face it, its not a good star free agent landing spot. They can’t give their money away!
Happens once = “always”
Got it. Also, I guess arguably the second best catcher in baseball isn’t a star free agent. Cool.
Don’t sleep on the White Sox.
Apparently it’s because his wife lives in New Jersey.
So let me get this straight. The Sox had a “higher offer”. But with Machado, technically theirs was higher too. However, it probably had incentives that Sox fans will look over and say, “we offered more! Blah blah blah, Sox!” Where you at, chisox311 and city?
So let me get this straight. You know absolutely nothing outside of what was reported, yet you’re spouting out this nonsense? Must be a Cubs fan.
Actually I’m not. But glad to know you responded.
I seem to be in the minority on this from skimming the other comments, but I think Wheeler will easily justify the contract if he stays healthy (admittedly a big “if”).
He’s a quality arm as it stands, with some upside to take another step forward.
Im with ya!
Ok,ive been getting impatient,and the Phillies made me eat my words.Thats alot of money,but I still like it.
Zack Wheeler not only signed with the Phillies but the Braves just announced a deal with Cole Hamels. The reported $5yrs./$118MM Phillies contract with Wheeler is pretty rich. At those numbers I’m glad he accepted the Phillies offer to stay closer to ‘home’. A contract in the vicinity of $120MM would have been tolerable for a 6 year contract but an AAV of $23.6MM is a bit rich for Wheeler.
At this point do the White Sox ramp up to Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg or settle for a veteran free agent SP like Dallas Keuchel who was my ‘hedge’ pick for them in the MLBTR FA contest? Of course, they could always turn turn their attention to the trade market as well where I do believe they are focusing now to fill their void in RF.
I could see a potential match with the Dodgers, Mets and even the Cubs where the White Sox could address their hole in RF as well as potentially acquire a SP in an expanded blockbuster trade. I’ve continually pushed the notion of a potential deal with LA for Alex Verdugo as their long term core RF or with Joc Pederson as a shorter term fallback. Perhaps the teams could expand on such a deal that also involves pitching with the White Sox also targeting a SP like southpaw Julio Urias.
Similar to the Dodgers, the Mets also have a surplus of lefty hitting corner OF that might interest the White Sox. They are also trying to unload some big contracts that the White Sox could afford if they made it worth their while. Same with the Cubs who have an expensive RF in Jason Heyward who would fit very well with a young White Sox team looking for veteran leadership and better OF defense to go along with a bat that might once again approach the level it had with the Braves and Cardinals before it went south after he arrived on the northside of Chicago. Perhaps the Cubs could make it worthwhile for their city rivals to take Heyward off their hands by also including a pitcher like Jose Quintana in an expanded blockbuster who would be another welcome addition to the the White Sox as a southpaw inning eater who also happened to be a fan favorite on the southside before his trade to the northside at the 2016 summer deadline. Kyle Schwarber would be another potential corner OF fit with the White Sox, at least with his slugging left-handed bat which could also see a full time share with Eloy Jimenez between LF and DH.
What’s the point of writing all that in this comment
AaronSapoznik has the Rambling Fever
Reading is hard, I know.
Being priggs89 is hard, I know.
*2017 summer deadline deal for Quintana.
The White Sox don’t have anything that would entice the dodgers to trade verdugo or urias. Pederson is the only realistic one.
I believe that the White Sox could get the Dodgers attention by throwing out names like Andrew Vaughn, Aaron Bummer and perhaps one of Chicago’s young right-handed power arms that might turn into a surplus in Chicago once everybody returns to full health from their TJ procedures.
The Dodgers wouldn’t have a great need for a top White Sox prospect like CF Luis Robert or 2B Nick Madrigal since they are covered in the OF and have a stud 2B prospect of their own in Gavin Lux. The White Sox wouldn’t be interested in dealing Robert or Madrigal anyway. I could see them moving Vaughn in the right package considering their system depth at 1B.
Dodgers have no need for a 1st base prospect. They have tons of depth at that position and 1st baseman are a dime a dozen. Bummer would catch their attention but not for verdugo or urias. Why trade a 300 hitter with above average defense for a volatile reliever? And why trade TOR potential in urias for a relief arm?
Aaron, no offense, but you come up with the worst, most nonsensical trades offers I’ve seen on MLBTR.
Not nearly as “nonsensical” as many projected from the supposed experts at mlb.com, espn.com and Bleacher Report. My trades suggestions aren’t likely to occur but they always make sense on paper. I also go out of my way as a Cubs and White Sox fan to make sure they are fair to the the other party. I don’t offer ridiculous one-sided deals that many homers propose.
I am also not afraid to propose blockbuster deals which rarely happen but are the most entertaining to discuss as rumors as well as when they actually come to pass.
You’re kidding, right!!!!
Why on earth would the cubs trade Quintana? Makes no sense for them.
I usually agree with a lot of what you write and appreciate reading what you write. I think you are a little lost on this post imo. Verdugo, yes absolutely, Pederson ok if they can’t sign Castellanos but don’t give up too much for him, Heyward, gtfoh with that hot garbage. White Sox are looking for offense from their RF, something they did not get last year at all, Heyward would barely help in that regard. It is also ridiculous to expect/hope he reverts back to what he was 5 years ago. Cubs are stuck with that mess. I don’t care how good he is in the OF, he isn’t catching every ball hit in the grass so no thanks. I also don’t think the Dodgers are going to deal Urias, they need him too much.
The slack heyward gets is insane. Is he worth 20+ million? Probably not. Is he a starter on almost every mlb team, including white Sox, yes.
Of course the contract has a lot to do with it, if he were a 3 million dollar player, then fine, but he isn’t. What sort of a contract would he get if he were a FA this year as a defense first 30 year old who hit .250 last year in a good lineup , finally got up to 20 HR’s but in a year that seemingly everyone else hit 30? His OPS+ was 98.
I don’t have it in front of me but i think 58 players hit 30 HRs and 133 players hit 20 HRs. those numbers could be off a bit. Heyward didn’t do nothing special. Some guys played in 100 games and did what Heyward did. And please don’t start talking about his defense.
I honestly don’t know what he would be worth but I guarantee if he was a free agent he would get at the very least a contract similiar to mccutchen
As you probably already know, I am a die-hard fan of both Chicago teams. I have also posted on numerous occasions that I believe the Cubs and particularly manager Joe Maddon screwed Jason Heyward over almost immediately after they signed him as a FA prior to their 2016 championship season. If you recall, the Cubs also signed Ben Zobrist that same offseason who should have become the Cubs #2 hitter as the prototypical fit behind leadoff man Dexter Fowler. Somehow, and despite having Zobrist with him in Tampa for the first 8 years of his career, Maddon thought Heyward would be the Cubs ideal #2 hitter, a role he never had as a member of the Braves or Cardinals. That experiment went south after Heyward’s miserable first half and the Cubs have been messing with him ever since with their former micro-manager trying to utilize him in just about any other lineup slot along with most of his hitters who all would have been better served with more defined roles. Since Heyward’s debut season the Cubs have also cycled through 4 hitting coaches, decisions that very much had to with a manager who preferred deflecting blame in a direction away from himself. Having those many voices in Heyward’s head along with many of the other younger Cubs hitters resulted in an offense that was ‘maddonly’ inconsistent in regards to the actual talent they possessed.
Heyward is still just 30 years old and now halfway through his 8 year contract that actually pays him a lower AAV in it’s last four seasons. Heyward remains an excellent defensive RF where he would remain with the White Sox with uber CF prospect Luis Robert debuting in 2020. Maddon had Heyward playing more CF with the Cubs because of Albert Almora’s struggles and with the Cubs deadline trade for Nicholas Castellanos last July. Heyward’s defense in CF is not nearly as good in CF as it was in RF.
Additionally, Heyward is still one of the Cubs best base runners, another aspect that would benefit the White Sox lineup. His veteran leadership and clubhouse presence is also undeniable. It was his pep talk during the late rain delay in game 7 of the World Series that help calm down and inspire a young Cubs team that was let down by its own manager following some very questionable decisions that allowed the Indians to tie the game before the Cubs went on to their thrilling 10-inning victory. How ironic too that it was Heyward who helped bail out a manager who did him no great favors throughout the regular season.
Bottom line: I believe that Heyward could return to the productive hitter he was as a Brave and Cardinal with a change of scenery and a manager who will assign him and the other players more defined roles. Rick Renteria is a more traditional manager and won’t play fantasy baseball with the future core White Sox batting order like Maddon did with a predominately young Cubs lineup. Heyward is still young enough and possesses enough athleticism to maintain his solid glove in RF and his base running acumen. His clubhouse presence would be an added plus. Most importantly. I believe that Heyward could once again become the productive hitter he was for the bulk of his first 6 MLB seasons before becoming a Cub. From 2010-2015 he not only posted four bWAR seasons between 5.5-6.6 but also had accompanied oWAR metrics between 3.0-4.9. I believe he can once again approach those numbers through his age 34 season which would go a long way to justify his remaining $21.5MM AAV salary.
White Sox fans have witnessed plenty of ‘hot garbage’ in RF the past decade aside from Adam’ Eaton’s last season with the team in 2016 along with Avisail Garcia’s lone breakout offensive one a year later. The current FA market for RF is also loaded with plenty of steaming crap which is why Rick Hahn is checking out his trade options for a lefty hitting RF before perhaps settling on a decent short term right-handed option like Yasiel Puig. Imo, he can do worse than acquire a ‘young’ veteran like Heyward for four years who should come a heck of a lot cheaper in terms of return assets than my preferred target of Alex Verdugo.
I appreciate the analysis but I think Heyward just isn’t what the Sox are looking for or need. While I agree they could use his defense and base running, I don’t feel like those skill sets are enough to outweigh his below average offensive output, especially for the $$. I would rather them either sign Castellanos, Puig or Calhoun or trade for Verdugo, Pederson, Marte or Haniger. Heyward would be waaaaayy down on the list. Some of these guys listed could be a short term fill in until next off season to make a serious run at Betts.
You have to figure, the Cubs will basically give Hayward to anyone who will pay half what he’s owed. I would like to see him in RF for the White Sox, and yes I too call them the Sox.
I would also put the talents of Alex Verdugo, Starling Marte and Mitch Haniger ahead of Jason Heyward as potential core RF trade targets. The reason I suggested Heyward is because he would come so much cheaper in terms of return talent going back in a trade compared to those 3 players.
The White Sox have the financial means to take on bad contracts if the other team makes it worth their while or that player is still at the age where a change of scenery could return him to a previous level of production. At this point in time I prefer the White Sox refrain from trading any of their elite prospects or promising young players already on the active roster unless it is for a controllable ‘younger’ elite talent (Verdugo) or a superstar with some semblance of control (Lindor, Syndergaard) who stand a decent chance of being extended before hitting free agency.
I have also repeatedly stated that Joc Pederson would be a nice short term fall back trade option for the White Sox along with FA Yasiel Puig. I’m not a big fan of the White Sox signing Kole Calhoun at this stage of his career and am absolutely opposed to the White Sox signing and inferior defensive outfielder/DH like Nicholas Castellanos to an expensive multi-year deal.
I wouldn’t even be opposed to gambling on a rental superstar like Mookie Betts if the White Sox can do it with a package of mid-tier prospects, certainly not any of their top-4 and probably none from their top-8. This would be akin to the gamble that Rick Hahn reportedly attempted to do by trading for Manny Machado two offseason ago when he was a rental and the White Sox had just completed year #1 of their rebuild. Betts is a much better fit with the White Sox now in terms of his position and their readiness to contend than what Machado was back in 2017.
Hey the rangers just released a new line of uniforms, can you please do an article on them. They go back and forth from old to new styles… AND THEY HAVE THE POWDER BLUE.
Would have loved the home-white one if paired with royal “T” hate, like Nolan Ryan sported when he pounded on a future Mets manager.
Damn. Overpaid bigtime..
This will surely silence the “Reinsdorf is a cheapskate” crowd.
Nah…. little girls gonna keep crying.
When the money is close, players choose the best fit for them. Ive been at those sox games with more than half the stadium EMPTY, very depressing place to play. Chi-sox fans ONLY sellout for a winning team. The other chicago team just always sells out. No one wants an ugly girlfriend even if they have lots of money.
That stadium is just in a horrible location. There is no atmosphere and very little to do before and after games besides quickly get on the interstate to leave.
JR offers more money because he knows that no “legit free-agent or All-Star” wants to play in that dump or in front of its 20,000 fans.
If he signs a few really good free agents, there will be a lot more than 20K paying customers in those empty seats.
probably gonna tear his ucl while signing
He’s never received a Cy Young vote. He just received a bundle of cash and all he had to do was show flashes here and there. He is AJ Burnett 15 years later, and that’s a slight against Burnett.
What has AJ Burnett ever done to you?
I should have used Gil Meche instead. That’s on me.
No A.J. Burnett had a golden arm like Nolan Ryan.
Zack Wheeler is Carl Pavano.
Solid reference.