TODAY, 1:58pm: The Cardinals could also have interest in Bumgarner, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand writes.
WEDNESDAY, 7:52pm: The Reds are indeed among the teams with ongoing interest in Bumgarner, tweets MLB Network’s Jon Heyman. Cincinnati has been aggressive thus far and has also been linked to free-agent outfielder Marcell Ozuna, further backing reports that they’re willing to sign players who rejected a qualifying offer.
5:35pm: USA Today’s Bob Nightengale suggests otherwise regarding the White Sox, writing that they’ve been zeroed in on Wheeler and have yet to even enter into negotiations with Bumgarner’s camp.
2:45pm: Zack Wheeler is off the board on a reported five-year, $118MM agreement with the Phillies, and it sounds like a decision from fellow free agent Madison Bumgarner might not be far behind. Even before word of Wheeler’s agreement broke, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand tweeted that some within the industry also expect Bumgarner to sign before the Winter Meetings begin next week.
At this point, the Twins and White Sox are among the “heaviest” suitors for the longtime Giants lefty, tweets Andy Martino of SNY, who adds that the Yankees are involved “to some degree.” Meanwhile, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets that even after the Braves signed Cole Hamels to a one-year, $18MM deal earlier today, they’re still not completely out of the Bumgarner bidding. And ESPN’s Buster Olney somewhat speculatively links the Reds, who also pursued but missed out on Wheeler, to the Bumgarner market as well (Twitter link). Other clubs are surely involved as well.
It seems unlikely that the bidding for Bumgarner will escalate to the same heights as the Wheeler market, although USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweeted earlier that the Braves jumped on Hamels in part due to concerns that Bumgarner’s price could approach $100MM.
Regardless of where he lands, there’s little doubt that Bumgarner is among the best arms on the market this winter. He’s not the clear-cut ace that he was earlier in his career when he was busy establishing himself as a postseason legend, but the 30-year-old Bumgarner still posted a 3.90 ERA and a matching FIP through 207 2/3 innings this past season. His average fastball velocity (91.4 mph) and strikeout rate (8.8 K/9, 24.1 percent) are both down a bit from peak levels, but Bumgarner still displayed impeccable command (1.9 BB/9) this past season and topped 30 starts for the first time since his injuring his shoulder in 2017’s dirt-bike debacle.
Bumgarner has made 55 starts across the past two seasons, pitching to a 3.66 ERA (110 ERA+, 3.94 FIP) while averaging 8.3 strikeouts and 2.3 walks per nine innings pitched. He rejected a qualifying offer from the Giants, meaning he’ll require some draft and possibly international bonus forfeitures (with exact compensation dependent on which team ultimately signs him). At this point, there’s little indication that the incumbent Giants are a serious player for Bumgarner, but they’re in position to recoup a compensatory pick between Competitive Balance Round B and Round 3 of next year’s draft (as they did when Will Smith signed with the Braves).
Wherever he goes I hope it’s a contender that can give him another shot at a title and maybe help his HoF chances
Agreed!
The Cardinals Owners won’t pay Bumgarner the money it would take to get him. They’ve made that clear about acquiring anybody in that price range for 2020!!! Although Bumgarner would pack the stands. Extra money would roll in. But—-The Cardinal owners won’t pay the money for a pitcher such as Madison Bumgarner. Just trying to build up fans interest in buying season tickets!! This happens every off season and at every trading deadline. Besides Goldschmidt, every other year the Cardinals never change. Especially under Puppet Mozeliak’s watch.
I agree on the Cardinals not signing Bumgarner for what it’ll take. I get that your point goes further than just MadBum but as far as he goes I wouldn’t give him that kind of money. I know his postseason track record and all that but that MadBum hasn’t been showing up the past couple years. He’s only thirty I wouldn’t write him off or anything but I wouldn’t gamble 100mil on him at this point. I don’t want to pay that kind of money to a guy coming off two average years
Yes! Also hope he’s treated with respect by the management that hires him
$80 over 4 years is my guess
The article says he will get at least $100M.
Where did you see that, it said could approach 100 million
Oh well in that case he will get that. These articles are always correct.
He is not a HOFer
Career stats say otherwise
37 WAR, 119 wins, never a top 3 Cy Young finish at age 30. Not even close yet.
He has a ton of work to do before sniffing the HOF.
Nice irrelevant stats you got there. Have anymore?
I’m curious as to what stats you think are relevant if WAR and wins don’t cut it.
Dodger fan here. Mad respect for MadBum. 3 rings in 5 years beats most others. Kershaw may head to the Hall but may have only his wedding ring to show for it.
I know how the numbers look for Kershaw. But in just a few games against St Louis a few years ago plus one or two other games his stopper rep went upside down. Check the box scores and you will find he was victimized by his bullpen as often as he messed things up himself.
MadBum, on the other hand is due for a renaissance. A few years ago Tim Linscum was a sure fire bet for Cooperstown. Then it all fell apart. For the most part MadBum is still pretty good and with support may well surprise us. If I could I’d bring him to LA to show them how to win.
3 World Series rings in 5 years ?
Giants fan here. I might be shot by my own but Kershaw is a class player and deserves HOF. What stunned me is how Dodger fans reacted to him in the playoffs. Was he good In the postseason? No!. But he had a 3.03 during the regular season. Fans threw his jersey on the field and drove over in the parking lot.
That is because the postseason is the only thing that matters. Regular season stats are fine but all that means nothing in the postseason. Bellinger won the MVP for the regular season but was silent in the postseason. World Series matter and those that don’t perform, from any team, are shunned
Corazon5 – I’m curious, no amazed, that you think that wins are a good measure of a pitcher’s worth.
WAR is fine. Wins is a useless stat. Literally everything is more relevant. Even xFIP and shoe size
That’s why I said work on it. He has better numbers than some guys already in the HoF and he’s a postseason legend
What HOF’s does he have better numbers than? Dizzy Dean is usually the floor for SP’s in the HOF that just didn’t rack up counting numbers (Don Sutton). Dean has more wins, higher WAR, lower ERA, and more awards.
He just needs couple more years of quality pitching then he’s in
Have to agree not a HOF’er yet. Look at his baseball reference numbers. Just go to his baseball reference page and see who he compares to right now. None are in the Hall.
He is the most dominant post season pitcher in history. Without him SF doesn’t win at least 2 maybe all 3 of their titles. Compared to Kershaw who’s outstanding regular season play almost guarantees the HOF, he’s let down his team in the postseason. Bums a lock for hof in my eyes.
heard of Bob Gibson?
Curt Schilling says hi. He isn’t in.
And Bumgarner has been lit up in the post season in the NLDS and NLCS (ERA’s over 4.00 in both) . He’s been brilliant in the WS.
And again, never a top 3 Cy Young finish in his career.
He isn’t close.
If Mariano rivera gets in based solely on his post season work, madbum is already a lock. Sorry that your repeatedly saying no has zero effect on reality. It’s the in season awards that don’t weigh the post season. Madbum and Posey are both hall of famers.
Mariano didn’t solely get in on postseason stats lol
Did you even watch baseball the last 20 years
Buster Posey a HOFer? really?
7 HRs and 38 RBIs last year…
He may not be a HOF yet, but he is closer than you say he is. He’s still only 30. If he signs with a good team and pushes past 200 W’s and gets another WS ring, he’ll be hard to keep out. Especially by the Veteran’s committee.
Bob Gibson was a true stud
Yet
Through their age 29 seasons:
Mike Mussina: 118/59, 3.50 ERA, 130 ERA+, 3.69 FIP, 1.161 WHIP, 3.12 K/BB, 37.7 bWAR
MadBum: 119/92, 3.13 ERA, 120 ERA+, 3.32 FIP, 1.111 WHIP, 4.19 K/BB, 37.1 bWAR
Interpret that information as you will
Remember AL East versus NL West.
Agree!
Look at his road splits and stadium adjusted FIP. No way, not to the discerning eye.
He reminds me a bit of Fernando Valenzuela in terms of track record for his career. He had some pretty great years to start his career (not to mention the rings and going down as a playoff legend) and has just kinda settled into a good-not-great middle of the rotation pitcher.
doug.daniel243
Not only has he settled into a good-not-great middle of the rotation pitcher, he’s done so at a very early age. In a couple of years it’ll be time to stick a fork in him. Add that to his road splits and park adjusted FIP and you have to wonder how will that make for a HOF career?
I couldn’t agree with you more
^Steeler
Angry dummy
Not Yet
Or anywhere for someone to slap a dinger into the water. He’s not a fan of that at all.
HOF chances? Don’t be ridiculous! He is 119-92 in 11 years. Good big game pitcher no doubt. HOF no!
In an era where teams have shifted away from traditional pitching (analytics letting starter go 5 innings or twice through orders, pen matchups etc) madbum has posted 200 innings every year he’s been healthy.
Prolly the last true workhorse you’ll see. He posts 5 or more 200 innings of 3.5era or less ball he’s on the HOF with those 3 rings easy.
Harold Baines is in the Hall of Fame. The doors are wide open to thousands of players that you would not have fathomed a year ago.
The hall of fame is supposed to be the elite. If your under 40 you have no clue who tim raines or jim rice or Baines are
Yeah but Raines actually was elite. He just didn’t get the publicity that guys like Pete Rose or Tony Gwynn, for example, received.
Jim Rice was a great player for several years of his generation and a good to very good player in several others. He may have been borderline but he was definitely a respectable choice for the HOF. As a Yankee fan, I always respected him.
The Cobra
#putparkerinthehof
Raines was never even the best player on the team he was on. No no no. Thats not Elite.
#39
WINZ!
Yankees
He’s a bit behind for HOF, just because he was a stud in the WS does not guarantee getting in. He doesn’t have the stats required right now and may not get there
Hes the most interesting guy on the market imo. If wheeler got 5/118 what does he get?
The same or a little less
Less. Age is his albatross despite better numbers than Wheeler is my guess…
yeah that 10 month differential in his age vs Zack’s must be a huge hurdle to overcome in most GM’s minds … doh!
10 months and 163 extra games.
@proof163
163 more games because Wheeler has been injured more over his career!
I don’t think it’s age as much as mileage on his arm.
Or, he made his debut in ’09 and Wheeler in ’13
@braves25
If you’re a GM that pays on past performance, that’d be a massive boost in favor of MadBum.
Being so chronically injured that you have pitched few innings isn’t a good thing. That is a bigger mark against a player
Not just age and mileage: Wheeler still had near 100mph velocity and has stretches where he consistently shows ace-level stuff. He’s two years recovered from TJ surgery, with a high spin rate on his fast ball and quality breaking stuff. In short, he shows all the signs of still having untapped potential. Often, rehab from TJ surgery creates a stronger pitcher with better mechanics. Wheeler profiles as a 29 year-old pitcher with an upside higher than his past performance. MadBum seems to have settled into a period of slow decline. He remains a reliable “innings eater” who gives you a quality start more often than not; but he’s not been dominant consistently over several starts.
Not age, but innings pitched
Bumgarner is only 9 months older than Wheeler; the issue is simply mileage. Wheeler has thrown 750 career innings; Bumgarner is at more than 1,800. Wheeler has never thrown 200 innings in a season; Bumgarner has done it 7 times. Bumgarner has lost velocity, and it’s not coming back. Somebody will pay to have Bumgarner’s pedigree, experience, presence and leadership (as well as his ability to throw 175-200 innings), but it should be for far less than Wheeler.
Mad Bums worth on the market seems to be 21-23 million a year, but the mileage might hurt him. On the other side his post season pitching could help him. I think he gets 4/88. from somebody.
I mean they’re both awful in the tougher A.L.
I would guess 4 years and $80-85 million
I think if he’s going to accept 4 and 80, then the Giants would be favourites to get him. I reckon he’ll be closer to 5 and 110.
I also think his performance in game seven of the 2014 World Series was one of the greatest sporting performances I’ve ever seen. That was flat out ace pitching, if such a thing exists.
Gotta feel Newcomb is trade bait at this point. Newcomb, Swanson, Inciarte and a 20-30 guy to Cleveland for Lindor?
You serious with that proposition?
That probably doesn’t even get you half way to Lindor.
Haha. We will give you all the crap we decided wasn’t that good. You give us Lindor. Sounds like a good deal
Braves need to trade newcomb if they dont expect to use him in the rotation. he has too much value to be toiling in the 7th inning.
Yea I don’t think Newcomb is trade bait because of his success in the bullpen and there is a slight element of upside with him still. At least in theory. That said, your proposal wouldn’t work in this generation for Lindor. Maybe many years ago when prospect value wasn’t high this proposal would have stirred serious talks because of the years of control for a solid enough return. But even then, I doubt the deal would get done. I’m sure if you threw one of those guys in the deal with some strong prospects, that would get a deal done. We are in a generation where prospect talent is worth more than in the past
Dude, one your offer is low. Two, I agree the Braves need to trade with the Indians, but not for Lindor. Kluber is far more needed.
More like Swanson, Pache, Wright, and Contreras for Lindor.
Even if you don’t like the name’s the skeleton of Swanson, a top positional prospect, a top pitching prospect, and a catching prospect start the discussion.
Problem is, as much as I’d love Lindor in the lineup, Cleveland doesn’t have any reason to trade him. At this point, they’d be more in “see if someone would overpay” mode. The owner didn’t do his baseball ops staff any favors by all-but-saying he’s a goner. A year from now seems much more likelier time to move him.
That’s just insane. Lindor has like what, 1 year of control left? And your gonna trade a decent starting SS former 1st overall pick, two of the best OF prospects in baseball, and arguably one of the best catching prospects for him and that would “start the discussion”. Lol!!!!!! That would end the discuss cause the Indians would accept without thinking twice and Braves would be ridiculed by the fan base and media for being so dumb. Swanson and Pache plus 1 other mid lvl top 30 prospect gets the deal done without question and might be an over pay.
Lindor has 2 years left on his contract. No reason for the Indians to sell low
Lindor is a top-five player in baseball…The Indians don’t need to trade him now because he’s controllable for two more years AND they expect to be competitive next year. Swanson’s draft status has nothing to do with his value now. He’s a starting-caliber shortstop, but is at least one or two tiers below what Lindor is for one extra season of control.
Three top-10 prospects from a good Braves system plus a midlevel starting shortstop is an appropriate price for two years of an Acuna/Albies/Lindor/Freeman top four. Freddie is in his 30’s and the Braves can’t be stuck in a state of “wait til this prospect comes up” If upu can add a Lindor for two pennant runs, you do it. There’s no one in the system who can have his impact.
Yes that’s what it would take for the Indians to even begin to consider trading Lindor, a true superstar. And honestly, they should ask for Albies as part of any deal.
Pfft! On a two-year deal? Albies, on his long sweetheart deal? As just part of the deal? Get out of town.
This is the same as Betts. Sox aren’t trading Betts and the Indians aren’t trading Lindor because they want the moon for a rental. Keep him. Keep him until you have to give him up for a draft pick. See if anyone cares.
The “curse” of having guys that talented are you’ll never be able to get a fair package back for them. Even though we go back and forth on baseball related topics, no prospect is going to make money for an owner the way Lindor or Betts will.
Trading Lindor likely equates to less less money in the owners pocket. Combined with them actually trying to win, and it’s just hard to see it happening this year.
Ok 2 years of Lindor does raise his price tag, but y’all suggestions are completely insane. Not to mention throwing Albies on a team friendly long term deal when his performance is somewhat comparable to Lindor. If you want Albies, then it’s a straight swap at that point. Lindor might be better today, but the years attached to Albies assuming he maintains the same progression and gets even better, make that deal lopsided. Look, I have no problem playing coach gm…. in fact TradeRumors is a perfect place to encourage that. But you have to be reasonable and not completely insane. 2 top 100 prospect and a major league team control replacement such as Swanson is more than enough to make the deal happen. Sure maybe talks of an extra random minor leaguer or whatever can be added, but y’all are getting crazy. 3 top 100 players for Lindor! Braves just don’t need him that bad to justify selling half your farm nor does any team in the mlb
That’s my whole point: The Indians aren’t inclined to trade him unless they get exactly what they want. Sure, a team may eventually get a steal for a player like Lindor, but that’s at least 12-18 months away. They can get Swanson and two top 100 guys next offseason. It’s why I don’t see them moving him now unless they get both: 1. A great baseball package that balances winning next year with talented prospect 2. A deal that they can market to the portion of the fanbase that will be up and arms about trading a franchise player. You can’t trade Lindor and have fans screaming “That’s all we got?”
Would YOU trade Lindor for any of that mess?
Ridiculous that they gave up Andrelton for this guy.
agreed. A positive is guys used to work in the bullpen to earn their rotation spot. Newcomb has good upside but he’s not close to being Simmons-type gifted.
I wish Bumgarner would sign in Boston, but alas, that will never happen.
He would get mauled in that small park in a DH league
Fred, you maybe right.
Ping, whose career did Boston Ruin? Price? Sale? Get real!
Price is what he was before he signed his deal? yeah sure. Sale signed there and has his worst year, now he has 5 years left, “he’s cleared to throw” so he’s gonna be great again? sure. Looking like a great place to sign for SPs
So they can ruin another LHP’s career?
What bout Bruce Hurst, E Rod, n Price n Sale were injuries, not a fair analysis Ping. You apparently don’t watch Fenway baseball.
Take a look at Sale this upcoming year, guaranteed he doesn’t top 150 innings, I’d be surprised if Price does either. That’s not looking like a place where SP’s go to flourish, looking like a place SP’s get paid to fizzle out
Hard to believe he just turned 30 in August.
I thought he was like 35 or something. was shocked to find out his true age.
Anyone who pays $100 million to MadBum is an idiot. I can’t see that happening.
Somebody paid over $100M for Wheeler and I still remain unconvinced Wheeler is any better than Bumgarner
Wheeler returned from injury and has looked about as good. MadBum has been a three ever since his injury.
I’ve watched enough Giants baseball to see how Bochy runs his pitchers into the ground. Bum WAS a great pitcher however I have to agree that if anyone gives him anywhere near 100m they are paying for his reputation. I could be wrong because he is only 30 however there is a lot of throws in that arm already
Bumgarner prob gets 3/60, Reds might even do that!
Only with an anti dirt bike prenup.
3 and 60 means he stays in San Francisco. No chance he’s signing for that.
Not sure the Braves want 3 lefties in the rotation.
Newcomb will be traded IMO. I commented earlier about him, Swanson and Inciarte to Cleveland with a “throw in” for Lindor.
Did everyone laugh?
Why? If you want to compete, you go get the best of the best. Cleveland gets three MLB Roster ready players for two years of Lindor.
You’re making. Braves fans look bad with that proposal. Sure, those 3 could be in the deal but it’s also gonna take at least one of their top 3 prospects and another mid to low prospect.
Mistake
I just looked at the replies. Everyone did laugh.
So three years of an average SS with salaries that are starting to escalate, a 0.9 WAR OF owed $16 million over the next two years, and a reliever/maybe SP who has trouble throwing strikes. Sounds good.
Why do you think the Indians would make that trade???? IF they trade him to the Braves they will be expecting something like Ian Anderson and Drew Waters coming back their way plus Swanson and a “throw in”. He won’t come cheap….and he shouldn’t.
I did. Sounds like one of those terrible roto trades the 10th place team offers
That’s a horrible deal for Cleveland. What a joke.
maybe if that throw in is Waters.
Stop you make all real Brave fans lose credibility
We got our generational guys in Acuna, Freeman & Albies no way we pay Lindor in a couple years to justify giving up the talent it takes to get him.
Resign JD
Resign Hechevarria
Yes, I’m sure Cleveland will leap at that offer. Good grief.
They may already have it if Newcomb and Fried are both in the rotation.
Crazy that he’s less than a year older than Wheeler but has thrown about 1,100 more innings.
Well when you only throw 86.1 innings over 3 years (2015-2017) and make your MLB debut 4 years later as Wheeler did it doesn’t seem that crazy. haha
Got a feeling Angels will swoop in and steal him. Don’t see him wanting the White Sox unless they offer 100 million… If not I could see Twins. I see Yanks ending up with Strasburg or Ryu.
Same age as Wheeler but has a better consistent track record with no real injury history. I expect a minimum of 150M dollars.
Nobody is giving MadBum $150 million. He will get less than Wheeler.
no real injury history? might wanna check your facts there. also, recent track record is more important than overall track record.
you need to check it – he has had no arm related injuries, HB line drive and motor bike accidents are not a predictor of future injuries.
Bum is trending down while Wheeler is trending up. Also, Wheeler has thrown a lot less pitches than Bum.
Wheeler will be injured within the first 2 years of the deal. It’s gonna be another pitching free-agent disaster.
If Bumgarner signs with either the Twins or White Sox, I’ll be ALL OVER him in my Roto League.
Bumgarner needs to stay in the NL if he wants any chance of making the HoF
I was about to say the same thing. 3.90 ERA in a pitchers paradise without the DH means the American League is gonna hit him hard. I think MadBums road ERA was over 5 last season. Tie that in with a designated hitter and the signing team is gonna regret that deal. I’m glad the Braves saved some cash and went for Hamels instead.
Well, Hamels might be washed too, but at least it’s not a $100M contract
Yeah! That will happen. Definitely will go in first year he is eligible. That 119-92 record is amazing. And he did it in only 11 years. Why that is a little over 10 wins a season. HOF for sure.
You do realize wins as a measuring stick for Starting Pitchers is just about the worst metric one can use, right? I know people of a certain age, which I am, were taught otherwise, but nowadays it’s more about xFip, SO%, SO/9, BB%, BB/9, and probably a couple others before win/loss record. And honestly, it’s better this way. Judging a SP on what he has control over is much better than a statistic in which he has little control over doesn’t make much sense to me.
And with MadBum it’s gotta be park adjusted and road splits.
>pitcher wins
Brewers need to strike soon on this pitchers market or this offseason looks weak.
Unfortunately for Brewers fans, their ownership only has interest in the FA bottom feeders who are still aplenty as we post.
So does the international money go to the team losing the player or does it just evaporate?
It doesn’t go to any team, it’s just removed from the signing team. The same is true for the draft pick – the signing team loses a pick, and the former team gets a compensatory pick.
if theres one thing about the wheeler deal that makes me happy, its that it means the phils are less likely to overpay for Madbum now. nice arm and all, but he’s not the pitcher he once was and might be less durable than Stras.
We might be mortal enemies but we agree that we arent all that interested in our teams signing the poster board image of regression. A road ERA of 5.29 and an xFIP of 4.31 should be all anyone needs to see to stear clear.
He could get 100 million if Wheeler did bum is a proven winner 5 90 to a 100 million.
So you are saying there is still a chance?
NO!
Sigh..can another team just acquire Bumgarner so op here can change his name back to something a little less silly and start the morning process already?
So..How’s everyone’s FA predictions going?
I’m not going to bother to speculate. Made bets the Giants would hire Espada and NOT Kapler. My pockets are empty
4 so far
Four for me as well but I have zero momentum now after hitting on those with my first 5 picks. lol
Hamels to the Braves was my only correct assumption aside from the guys they re-signed from last season which I thought was a given.
White Sox need a lefty!
Yes. Madison Bumgarner, Hyun-Jin Ryu and Dallas Keuchel are still available to the White Sox as potential TOR southpaws while Wade Miley, Alex Wood, Rich Hill and Drew Smyly remain as possible back of the rotation options.
GM Rick Hahn has professed his desire to add two veteran starters to the White Sox rotation this offseason with one of them likely being a lefty.
I want Alex wood = next Andrew Miller
It still blows me away that the Giants didn’t trade him back in July…
It’s probably because, despite reports, the Giants want him to stay.
Trading him wouldn’t have meant they couldn’t sign him if they wanted to.
Hell, the Sox could cycle him through DH on his down days.
If 5 years 100 million works the Sox should do it.
I still want the Braves to make big push for him. I don’t understand why our fans are so down on him. I know they want a pure ace, but that’s not gonna happen in this market. Too expensive and not a ton of options. But if you add him to our rotation, suddenly our rotation is pretty freaking strong. Soroka, Bum, Folty, Hamel, Fried or some mixture of that. I mean, that’s pretty good. Soroka our current “ace”, Folty who can pitch like an ace, 2 former aces, and Fried who has the stuff to be an ace. I mean, that’s a solid rotation. Hamels would be our worse pitcher. Wrap your head around that.. I’d take that all day
It’s not that anybody is down on him it’s the fact that in year 3 & 4 he will be killing the payroll.
Now I was always under the premise of getting him no matter the cost because he brings a leadership & mentor to the young staff but we just got that with Hamels and it’s not going to hurt long term cause it’s a 1 year deal.
Cudos to AA
Bumgarner on a 1 year contract sure!
Bumgarner for 4 years…absolutely not!
I’ll take 4 years at the right price. He’s still young. I mean, can’t pay him an outrageous amount for 4 years and I get that. He’s not gonna sign a 1 year deal, prob not a 2 year deal. But 3 years is possible. I’d take that all day (at the right price). He’d be our #2-3 today, and if he regresses just a tad, he’s a really good 4-5 down the road.
I’m down on him. Not because he would cost us on year 3 or 4 but because he will cost us in year 1 or 2. His road splits and stadium adjusted FIP is every reason to believe that he will cost us more than he is worth on year 1. We all love pointing to experience and leadership being reasons to bring a player in but nobody wants to sign Encarnacion to any position even though he could be a leader and teacher in the club house.
Nelson Cruz disagrees.
Hamels was literally the Cubs worst pitcher in the second half of last year. What did that get them?
To be fair, Hamels was uncharacteristically bad 2nd half of the year as the “worse” pitcher on that staff. I’m gonna operate that he’s gonna pitch what he has consistently maintained most of his career with mild regression.
Shallow comment. Hamels had like a 2.76 at the break. Then he got hurt. Said he was playing hurt the 2nd half while playing. Reinforced that after the season. Why cant he return to that level. Who cares about a small sample size…his career and more recently 17 starts of last year prove he is still a solid #2. That’s what we needed. And only 6 mil more than JT would’ve cost. So people are never happy and just bash things without actually knowing the full story. Gtfoh
Bum to an nl team
Wrong lefty, White Sox. He is terrible fit for ballpark.
As a Sox fan, do you prefer Keuchel or Ryu?
No strong preference. Ryu is better, keuchel is safer. I’d sign both if possible.
Come on lol I’m huge Sox fan lol i don’t know about bumm
But what is with the Kuechel love
Pull up Dallas Keuchel on his baseball reference stat page, then do the same for Mark Buehrle and have fun with the similarities. Also note that each pitched most of their home games in hitter/HR friendly venues.
He’s a consistent LH veteran pitcher who induces weak contact, one who never needed high velocity to be successful. He’s very much similar to Mark Buerhle, in that even in down years, he proves to be effective. The floor is pretty high with him, so it’s a safer hire.
RYU. It’s an easy call.
The Giants need MadBum. This is not making me happy. This off season sucks so far. I am disappointed in losing Smith and Pillar as well. Castellanos is being considered and though Zaidi may not care about his SFG fans, I know he had better make some big splashes in order to distract us from these huge disappointments. Our entire bullpen is almost gone, the one that has been up in the top of the ranks for a year. We need a RH-hitting power OFer, SP and relievers, and maybe another IF utility man and a possible back up catcher. I think they have added and IFer but I can’t recall who right now. Get busy, FO. Maybe I will go I strike at the Winter Meetings hotel. LOL I live 40 mi away.
You might want to shut your eyes and cover your ears then. The Giants are about to start a rebuild.
Right. And they’re very open about it. I have absolutely zero problem with not signing Pillar. He’s really not that good. Nice glove, but the rest of his game has massive holes.
i would be shocked if he goes to the Whitesox or the Twins. Bumgarner wants to hit. He only goes to an AL team if there is an agreement that he is his own DH.
Agree. I wouldn’t want to be the Manager that tells him they are using a DH
You know there’s a song called “I’m my own DH” right? Sorry, couldn’t help myself…….
MadBum gets paid to pitch, and he’ll most likely go where he’s able to make the most money and possibly win a championship.
The Reds need this guy, glad they missed Wheeler.
I was thinking 3/$66.. I know that’s steep but they’d have to overpay, again. Idk he’d be about as close to NC as he would be in Atlanta as the crow flies, in his private jet. Probably not happening but I think he’d be a good fit.
or crap I guess 3/$70 range?
Shorter term/higher AAV is better for this guy I think. I don’t think I’d whine about 3/$66 or $70 for him. But I wonder if that would get him to sign. You’d think he’s gotta be looking at at least 5 years.
No doubt, Wheeler didn’t wanna come to Cincy anyhow. I remember when he was rumored to be a part of the Jay Bruce trade, he practically went into the front office and begged not to be traded. Plus I just couldn’t shake the Homer Bailey feeling in my gut about that guy. The Reds cant afford to have another miss like that. I know they are spending money, but I’d much rather go with someone with a track record. If Bum is my #3, I take that action all day. Plus I kinda wanna see him hit at GABP a little bit.
Plus, most importantly of all, he will put butts in seats. His hard**sed approach would be loved throughout Reds nation, would be good for the dugout too tbh.. I miss going to GABP in a sellout, it’s been too long
..and two more fleeting cents @JoeW I don’t think Homer Bailey’s story is over yet ;^)
I wouldn’t mind seeing the White Sox do 4/$118, but with a boatload of it deferred. Do something like $20/$30/$17.5/$17.5; 3 club options at $17.5 ($5.5); and 3 club options at $15 ($5.5). All buyouts are guaranteed. The buyouts on any exercised options will be paid as another deferred $5.5 million per year after 2029, which means he sees an increase of the entire option amount, not merely the difference between the option and the buyout.
Basically it’s Wheeler’s exact total dollars, but for only 4 seasons of work. The trade-off? He agrees to defer $33 of it for 6 years.
That’s not how club options work. Club options means only the first 4 years would be guaranteed. If the buyout is $5.5mil, you’re offering him 4/$90.5mil guaranteed.
Reports are that he’s already being offered more than that.
MadBum will hate pitching at White Sox park…he’ll give up so many dingers his head will explode. Bad idea for him and the White Sox.
This is probably true no matter where he goes, so it’s a moot point.
Imagine the reds sign mad bum and bring back Puig heads would roll
Where is the “dark team” rumors? We need suspense
Yankees!
Pure Speculation, but I beleive the Yanks will sign Bumgarder, Gerrit Cole and Strausburg
That’s some heavy duty conjecture
…and Ryu & Keuchel!
They would blow past the third luxury tax tier ($248MM) at high speed, leave the Red Sox record of ’18 way in the dust.
And they have a $250 mil payroll?
They have like a $200m payroll right now, they they signed those three it would be around $300m
Brian cashman = Jason Garret
What about Randon and DeDee Gragorious?
Not big on them but think they’d have room to take a flyer on Homer Bailey
Oh man Bumgarner would fit in LIKE A GLOVE with the Minnesota Twins. I think he would love it there. Instant contender, more run support than he’s had EVER.
Good points.
For an “outdoorsey” guy who has in recent years been victimized by poor relief efforts and an anemic offense, Minnesota seems like a natural fit. Add to that the opportunity to work with Wes Johnson and to face off against teams against whom he has had minimal exposure.
White Sox reportedly turning their attention to Madison Bumgarner now. They could do worse. Bumgarner could be akin to the Cubs FA signing of Jon Lester prior to the 2015 season when they became relevant again following their own extended rebuild. Mark Buehrle ‘clone’ Dallas Keuchel would also be a fine fall back option to Zack Wheeler.
Unlike ‘Madbum’, Keuchel doesn’t have a QO tag and also has pitched the bulk of his MLB career in a hitter-friendly home park which the White Sox also call home. Bumgarner might also miss the opportunity to hit as an AL pitcher. which Keuchel has primarily been aside from his ‘shortened’ 2019 season in Atlanta.
“Extended rebuild” the Cubs was 3 years. Pretty sure the White Sox was like 3 times longer.
Not good at math, are you?
Wonder how ling the next rebuild for the cubs will be.
When it starts in 2030, let’s begin counting together……
The Cubs rebuild took exactly three seasons from the time that Tom Ricketts hired Theo Epstein in October of 2011 until the completion of it following the 2014 campaign.
The 2019 season marks year #3 in the White Sox rebuild after GM Rick Hahn convinced owner Jerry Reinsdorf and Executive VP Kenny Williams back in 2016 that their annual tactic of retooling and reloading was keeping the team “mired in mediocrity”.
Most regulars here realize that Cub trolls enjoy gloating over the fact that the White Sox have been quite ‘mediocre’ since their last playoff appearance in 2008. All those seasons don’t amount to a proper ‘rebuild’. Fans of both Chicago teams have endured their share of misery over the years including the White Sox going 88 years between World Series titles and the Cubs 108. Fans on both sides of town should also stop with their continued insults to each other because history suggests that neither have had much to brag about.
Well, even though it took 108 years, the Cubs didn’t have to cheat to win their WS.
Anyone who has lived in Chicago knows Cubs fans really don’t give a crap about the White Sox and that the White Sox have a fan base that belongs in a tiny market. That drives White Sox fans crazy. But it’s true. They literally could move and most sports fans in Chicago would just shrug.
That’s bs. I’m 64, a fan of both teams, was born in Chicago and have lived in the greater metro area most of my life. The White Sox outdrew the Cubs for much of my early fandom and last I checked the the northside team hasn’t had the type of attendance advantage that you are suggesting.
Even with the Cubs drawing twice what the White Sox do hardly suggests the number of fans aligned with the team. Southsiders won’t fill their park with losing teams like Cub fans have been doing more frequently since they finally joined the 2oth century about 50 years later than most every other franchise by installing lights at Wrigley Field in 1988. The Friendly Confines and surrounding bars and eateries attract fans in spite of the teams W-L record. The faithful go their to worship, often blinded by their own ignorance like many religious fanatics. White Sox fans are not nearly as devoted…..or gullible.
AS- Hahn did nothing of the sort. Sale and Eaton were traded for insubordination. There were multiple incidents with Sale and management. And Eaton misbehaved when he got the union involved and threatened ST games boycott after the Drake fiasco. My source doesn’t confide everything to me but on this he did. After the trades they called it a rebuild.
I love how you talk about Cubs trolls, when it’s blatantly clear most Cub fans could care less about the White Sox. They’re irrelevant to pretty much everyone, even the free agents who won’t go there unless they’re way over paid.
Also, great job getting creative with the whole “108 yrs between a Works Series” nobody ever says that and what was going on during WW1 is completely relevant to today’s baseball. SMH….
tycobb, if you truly believe that nonsense you posted then you’re a bigger fool than the average.
If they are just now turning their attention to MadBum they are likely too late. He’ll sign in the next two days.
That’s OK. Madison Bumgarner is not nearly as good a fit at GRF as Dallas Keuchel figures to be. From what’s being reported it appears that Madbum will also command a contract in the ballpark to that of Zack Wheeler’s 5yrs./$118MM deal with the Phillies which was said to be $7MM shy of the White Sox final offer. If that’s accurate, it would have been an overpay and will be even more so for Bumgarner considering the extra year of age and considerably more mileage on his arm.
I’m guessing that Keuchel will be fortunate to even approach half of those total contract amounts and likely for no more than 3 guaranteed years with maybe a vesting option or two. Those terms would fit much better with a White Sox team that might have a preponderance of young right-handed power arms come 2021 with the likes of current starters Lucas Giolito, Dylan Cease and Reynaldo Lopez in addition to Michael Kopech and Dane Dunning who are each returning from TJ procedures. Kopech is already throwing and will be ready with no restrictions when spring training starts in February. Dunning should be back pitching with an affiliate by midsummer and could be a factor in the White Sox rotation early on in 2021.
The White Sox also have a couple of other more recently drafted arms who could see their MLB debuts in 2022 and 2023 in addition to lefty Carlos Rodon who should be back on the mound this coming July after his own TJ surgery this past May.
Why would it matter when hey get involved? Pretty sure it’s a matter of “hey here is our offer.” If it’s what any player wants they accept it. It’s not like a player would say “ yup they had the best offer, but they didn’t make me feel important enough until it was too late.”
I see Bumgarner ending up in the NL. Of those two, Twins are a much better fit for him than the White Sox.
If you think Bumgarner’s going to the NL, why do pick the Twins as the best fit?
Lmao
Probably because he thinks Twins hitters will hit more HR’s when he pitches than the high number that Madbum might allow pitching at Target Field compared to vast Oracle Park in SF. The White Sox home of Guaranteed Rate Field is a more hitter friendly park than the Twins. Chicago looks to have an offensive powerhouse of their own in the making but they are younger and less experienced than the Twins sluggers as we post.
Neither team sports elite defense either although the White Sox do have two stud prospects who will debut in 2020 who can throw some leather in CF Luis Robert and 2B Nick Madrigal.
I think he’ll join the angels if they miss out on Cole
tijuana tigre’s
I’d take him over Wheeler in a heartbeat.
Of course you would.
Twins or Brewers. I’m thinking 4/$80…
The Yankees want two pitchers and Madbum is the named #2 That has been associated with the Yankees
Yanks aren’t signing 2 FA pitchers though. They already have 2 LH in the rotation.
I see Cincinnati going all out for him. They could use a Lefty in that rotation. He prefers to stay in the NL and with a team at a shot at 2020 contending.
Everyone saying dude has regressed. Yah, when you regress from elite to really good, it’s ok. I’d slot him into the Reds 3 spot with three years for $60m, and sleep like a baby at night.
He’ll get better than 3/$60 in this market.
I totally agree with you!! I wouldn’t mind seeing the Redlegs offer MadBum what you said, turn around and offer Alex Wood a 1-2 yr contract and watch he and DeSclafani battle it out for the 5 spot. Then when Bauer walks next season, the Reds still have 4 solid starters, 2 being lefties, and Hunter Greene well on his way in a non pressure number 5 if he’s ready.
Safe to say, it might be the White Sox since the Sox offered more to Wheeler than Phillies…?
Idk why angels dont do mad bum and ryu both 4 years 100 million instead of cole for 40 per for 7 years.
I also read that red sox might trade betts if the team trading takes price and/or eovoldi. If that is the case why not trade for price and hope he rebounds with his old coach? Then you pair mookie with trout and ohtani, and can move eovaldi to the pen. I think if angels took on both eovaldi and price the red sox would need to take back upton or maybe even pujols just so dollars arent so far off.
Lol
Sir/ma’am; you truly are mindless.
Go Twins
How does PHL keep crappung out 9 digit contracts to sub prime players like wheeler or harper?
Harper is hardly sub-prime to the intellectually honest fan. And Wheeler was the 3rd best pitcher on the market, a very hot market I might add.
Because that what a 26 year old lefty who has skill and the SP pitching market/prices cost.
I’m not surprised. There are plenty of crap pitchers making good coin. Think happ evoldi etc
Wheeler at worst is in that ball park and at best worth more.
Wheeler is not a lefty pitcher. Only hits lefty.
Harper is an average or above average, never been on a winning team, lots of PR around him, he has his moments but just lots of hype
MLB needs to get rid of these QO penalties. There’s no reason a team should have to forfeit a draft pick to sign a free agent. They need to adopt the NFL method instead where every free agent is graded and if a team ends up losing more talent than they sign, the league awards them with compensatory pick(s). Taking away draft picks to sign a player is beyond ridiculous and can really hurt the player himself (see Kimbrell and Keuchel last year).
They should also consider the equivalent of the franchise tag the NFL uses, where an MLB team can tag a player and pay him at the average of the Top 5 salaries at his position for one year as well.
Franchise tag not happening.
I hate the thought of him in another uniform. It’s like when Will Clark left. Eff Zaidi.
Twims need more than just Bumgarner. They’ll never do it but they should throw big money at either Strasburg or Cole plus Bumgarner.
Cole Hamels would have been a good fit for them too. I’m not in the Twins FO but if I were I would have jumped on Hamels with the short term deal he got instead of looking at Wheeler and then Bumgarner first. Just my thoughts
Get out the checkbooks!
Time to fish or cut bait!
Glad we didn’t have to wait
until February for all this
action!
Almost a haiku. Is that necessary? We can read full lines.
Well, doesn’t look like the White Sox are getting anybody again. Not completely their fault since they have money to spend and offers have been made. Looks like I’ll have more free time the rest of the year, what with the Bulls, Bears, Blackhawks, and White Sox all sucking at the same time for no good discernible reason. And the cubs trying desperately to do as little as possible while the Reds surpass them.
Don’t give up that easily.
hope he’s an Angel
He goes to the Braves on a 2 or 3 year contract with buyout option on year 3 or 4. Annual salary? Your guess is as good as mine.
White Sox were so zeroed-in for Wheeler, we’ve not even met with Bumgarner yet. Key word here is zero. We offered him zero the minute Wheeler started taking 9 figs. Any other story is a smoke screen.
I know a lot of Sox fans disappointed about Wheeler. Fact is, the guy had an ERA over 4 for each of the first 4 months of the year, and a sub 2 ERA in Sept to bring his numbers down. A lot of pitchers do well in Sept because they are facing expanded rosters.
That being said, if they were willing to pay Grandal 18 mil a year and Wheeler 24, that’s 42 per year. That is less than what Cole would cost, on an annualized basis (even if he will get 7 years probably). Does anybody think that Grandal plus Wheeler would be better than Cole? I don’t, not a chance. Zero. It’s about the playoffs. Cole is a stud… he performs in the clutch, not like a Kershaw. AND they would prevent them from having to face him on another team every year.
They can afford to get Cole… and take their chances. Never in recent memory has a pitcher like him been available… he doesn’t have the injury history of a Strasburg or Bumgarner. Wheeler does not have the resume to justify 24 mil a year, my opinion… I think the Sox did well to miss out, honestly. The question is, how will they respond. Get on the phone with Bumgarner, and Cole… at least get in the game and consider how someone like Cole affects the landscape of the playoffs for the next several years. Cole is perhaps the biggest difference maker to playoff outcomes available… way more of a factor than any position player.
Yeah, I’m noticing a lot of people are excited about the most expensive player in free agency. Where I come from you root for the team on the field, not the owner and his accountant.
First, how do you justify Cole’s accomplishments coming from a rather scandalous organization?
Second, haven’t we seen it happen, oh yeah just last year, when two players get signed to record breaking deals and their existing organization seems to flatten out, knowing their chances now of being the hero are gone?
Many these days subscribe to the notion of buying the playoffs or championship. Did that happen last year when everyone said Astros guaranteed to win the World Series with Greinke? Nope. Instead a good chemistry team who projected to be eliminated in the first round took it all the way.
Still want to spend huge on a single player?
I say he stays on the Giants, he can be around long enough to help them content again in 2-3 years, and the value to his pedigree, grit, and leadership cannot be captured by some saber metric
Go out a Champ, again Champ get that 4th, just like Jeter did
I imagine MadBum’s agent is going to seek a clause that affords him PA when he pitches.
He likes to swing the bat too much to give it up. I don’t think either the Twins or the CWS
can give him that. Likewise the Angels already have a guy who loves to both pitch & swing the bat so I don’t think they can manage another one.
I can’t imagine him leaving the NL.
Keuchel is more realistic for the CWS & I think a better fit with the projected rotation.
Rodon, Giolito, Keuchel, Kopech, & Lopez.
Tommy-Johnners these days tend to come back stronger than ever & that’s what excites
me the most about 2020. Just imagine Rodon making 30 starts or more. When healthy he
has proven to be an ace. Kopech could push over 100 mph again. The big contrast in the
pitching styles of the bottom 3 should help all 3 of them.
Fangraphs developed a SOFT SCORE for soft-throwing LHP’s over the past 18 yrs.
Only the best scores made the list each year. Buehrle dominates it with 4 appearances. Zito’s only appearance was 2002 when Buerhle beat him w 86 vs 85.6.
Buehrle made it 2002, 2003, 2008, & 2010. So far Kuechel’s made it once in 2018
with a score of 82.5. That beat Beuhrle’s 2008 & 2010 scores.
Like MB, DK is a 4x Gold Glover & he most of his outs come from GB plays.
Where they differ is pitch style: MB threw a fastball, cut fastball, slider, changeup, & curve. DK throws a 4 seam fastball, cut fastball, slider, changeup, & sinker.
Bummer is essentially earning his way on success of his sinker in an age when hitters
routinely go down & lift low fastballs. Cooper was instrumental in that success & I think
it would definitely rub off on DK.
Why do you randomly hit enter every line or two? It’s odd and distracting. Think about writing paragraphs.
Bumgarner might hit 20 homers if he goes to Cincy
Low key, Bumgarner in LF/Lorenzen in CF when they’re not pitching wouldn’t be a terrible idea
That might not be too likely, but if Bumgarner was starting and Lorenzen started in LF, it could open up some fun scenarios. You need Lorenzen to face a tough Righty, you could swap them in the middle of the inning, then swap them right back. I think the new pitching rule of 3 minimum batters would only apply for someone from the bench, not someone in the game already.
Steve, this is your worst article to date, not gonna lie. “Sources say” with a blurb? Fake news. Do better.
Omg dude, it’s a fine written article. Cool it
3/47. I dont see him getting 100mil
Yes, great news that the Cardinals are at least checking in on him. Would love to see him with the Redbirds, they really need a lefty starter and he would be a great fit.
That report is to just keep the fan base happy. When they dont sign him or anyone else valuable, they can at least say they’ve tried like they have done in the past. Mo knows how to not spend the Dewitts money and I’m so over it
They have a higher payroll than they ever have over the last couple of years and they just gave Goldschmidt 150 mil not too long ago. They are spending more money now than ever before; yes it’s not at the maximum tax threshold, but they are definitely spending.
They are not broke just don’t think they will go there but it would be nice.
Would like to see him in a Cards uniform. Him and Wainwright look like brothers anyway
Haven’t heard that before but so damn true
MadBum to the Rockies so we can watch him hit at Coors Field on a semi-regular basis.
See ya Bum! You are one of the greatest Giants ever
That report is to just keep the fan base happy. When they dont sign him or anyone else valuable, they can at least say they’ve tried like they have done in the past. Mo knows how to not spend the Dewitts money and I’m so over it
Different offseason, same teams getting all the prospects. I don’t want to hear another complaint about the White Sox or ANY other team not spending money. F’ the “purists”, agents and national media trying to funnel top FAs to the SAME DAMN TEAMS EVERY YEAR. Oh, and to hell with the MLB. It’s an even bigger joke than the NBA right now (cheating, rigged free agency, boring kiss a## media, stupid front offices). I’m tired, and I’m done.
*free agents (not prospects)
Get this mans shoelaces
Take a break and come back fresh in a couple of days. Ciao.
Where are Balk and the rest of the Giants fans that swore up and down that he would never leave?
I think these upper tier pitchers are going to be chasing a ring, so the teams are going to have to show them they are all in to get them.
If he was still upper tier that comment would be relative
Just glad my team isn’t linked to this scum bag. May he please sign with the the Marlins and endure continued losing throughout the rest of his career.
Haha yeah!
Not gonna lie madbum would be a good card
This might be one of the most ignorant comments I have seen on here in quite some time. At no point in this incoherent rambling did you even come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all now just a little dumber having to have had to listen to you.
Who would eat 30 bagged lunches
am i the only one that gets annoyed that he is ALWAYS mentioned to be traded? its like every season his name is brought up, like the giants cant get rid of him fast enough, all he did was deliver 3 championships in under 7 years and anchor your staff while mentoring younger guys, do you know how many teams that would kill just to have a winning record? much less, WIN a ws? I hope he stays, the giants( not his) best years arent right now, they are going to struggle for awhile with a mediocre team, i wish my team, the red sox, weren’t slashing payroll, he would be excellent on our staff with porcello and hopefully price gone, he could slide in right under Sale and help the younger guys as the veteran presence that price lacks in everyway.
No chance Red Sox sign him
If I’m the Yanks I’m going after Madbum and resign Betances.
Whats next
Cole or kluber
Still believe Red’s will be going “all in” for Mad-Bum. Mgr. David Bell having previous ties with Giant’s. Cincinnati is making some noise in the NL Central. I’m predicting he signs with Cincinnati some time between now and the conclusion of the Winter Meetings.
Hey JT.
Getting MB sounds good until you look at 5 years and 100+ million and maybe more as the reds will probably have to overpay.. I know they probably are going to lose Bauer and Disco next year but think of all the hitting they can get with that money? Castellanos and Didi for example. We have good starting pitching this year and can always get a couple of starting pitchers next year. Anyway just my opinion. GO REDS. 🙂
I don’t think the Braves need to feel too much pressure to overpay on a SP before the season. Soroka, Hamels, Folty, Fried, maybe a cheaper FA to round things out. They have farm system depth and can make a deal later (Kluber?) if necessary.
If they can get Donaldson to re-sign, this offseason is a great success. I would love to see them pile on by dealing for Marte from Pittsburgh too. The Pirates are said to be seeking a Catcher prospect. Maybe if the Braves dealt them one of their top C farm guys and SP prospect, they could get Marte.
Whether it’s a trade (Marte) or a resurgent Inciarte, the Braves can really elevate their offense by adding a leadoff man and batting Acuna 3rd.
1. Marte, CF
2. Albies, 2B
3. Acuna, RF
4. Freeman, 1B
5. Donaldson, 3B
6. Markakis/Duvall, LF
7. D’Arnaud/Flowers, C
8. Swanson, SS
Soroka, Hamels, Foltynewicz, Fried
Why not sign Dallas Keuchel back for 3 years – 40 Million.