5:22pm: The league and the union have continued to battle this week in the form of letters, per Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic. Halem sent one to the union Wednesday explaining why the league’s not on board with its 114-game proposal, saying that “we do not have any reason to believe that a negotiated solution for an 82-game season is possible” and detailing why extending the regular campaign into October isn’t feasible from the league’s perspective. As of now, the league’s also unwilling to give service time to a player who opts out of a potential season for health and safety reasons.
MLBPA negotiator Bruce Meyer responded that he’s not sure MLB even wants a season to take place. “We are happy to hear that ‘the Commissioner is committed to playing Baseball in 2020,’” Meyer wrote, “since MLB’s course of conduct continues to lead to doubts.” The union also called MLB’s unwillingness to play into October “wholly unjustified.”
For now, MLB seems inclined to pursue a schedule of 50-some games, but that would also displease the union. Furthermore, the two sides haven’t even finalized health and safety protocols in the event a season does happen, though Meyer wrote, “We will be available at your convenience to continue those discussions, including over the weekend.”
10:26am: Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association remain at odds over both the length of a would-be 2020 season and the manner in which players would be compensated in a shortened schedule. Both sides have their own brand of mathematical gymnastics to show how much revenue would (or wouldn’t) be lost, and neither side has been inclined to budge whatsoever to this point. To recap — an abbreviated timeline of how this has played out:
- March 26: MLB and the MLBPA “agree” to conditions for return to play; players will receive prorated salaries if a season is played or a $170MM advance payout divided among all players if the season is canceled. Players will accrue the same service time they did in 2019 even if no season is played.
- April 16: Initial reports surface that ownership will seek further pay cuts from players due to a lack of gate revenue. The league points to a clause in the March agreement stipulating the two sides will “discuss in good faith the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators.” The union contends prorated salaries were agreed upon with or without fans in attendance.
- May 11: After nearly a month, ownership finalizes an economic proposal that includes a revenue share with the union. Before it is even formally proposed to the MLBPA, union chief Tony Clark wholly dismisses the proposal, likening it to a salary cap.
- May 26: After another two weeks of calculated leaks from both sides and public back-and-forth, ownership presents a “sliding scale” for further pay reductions that amounts to a mean 38 percent cut on top of prorated salaries (lesser percentages for lower-paid players but greater cuts for higher-paid stars). The season would consist of 82 games.
- May 31: The union counters with a proposal for 114 games and prorated salaries.
- June 3: MLB rejects the MLBPA’s proposal and indicates it will not offer a counter-proposal. Instead, commissioner Rob Manfred and the league’s owners begin discussions on an even shorter season — reportedly 48 to 54 games — at prorated rates.
Now, per ESPN’s Jeff Passan, the league is focusing in on a 48-game season. Fans and players alike recoil at the notion of such a truncated season, but the Associated Press yesterday obtained an email from deputy commissioner Dan Halem to the union in which Halem wrote: “You confirmed for us on Sunday that players are unified in their view that they will not accept less than 100% of their prorated salaries, and we have no choice but to accept that representation.”
The dramatically shortened schedule being discussed by the league is a reflection of the losses they’re willing to accept. The extent of those losses remains a point of contention, as the league has not yet provided the MLBPA with what it terms to be sufficient evidence to substantiate their claims.
Nonetheless, Passan takes a look at the numbers both sides have put forth. If the league is willing to play prorated salaries on a 48-game schedule and the union is indeed accepting an 82-game season at a prorated level, then the difference amounts to 34 games’ worth of prorated pay. Even accepting the figures ownership has floated at face value, the dispute — at least viewed through this lens — boils down to about $326MM in total, Passan surmises.
Ownership might look to spin the number to be greater, just as the union might look to cast doubt upon the fact that the losses are even that sizable. Regardless, if the players will indeed accept an 82-game season and prorated pay, the dispute comes down to roughly one month’s worth of games. On the surface, that appears like it should be a surmountable obstacle, but of course neither side has been particularly enthusiastic about compromise in any capacity.
Still, SNY’s Andy Martino writes that at least one person involved in the talks believes the outcome will indeed be a compromise: something in the vicinity of 65 to 80 games with slightly less than prorated salaries and temporary suspensions of the luxury tax and qualifying offer systems.
That sounds amenable to onlookers, though the involved parties surely view things differently. FiveThirtyEight’s Travis Sawchik examines why the players may be so reluctant to agree to further cuts, noting that the oft-cited “millionaires vs. billionaires” characterization of the public squabble isn’t necessarily reflective of the average big leaguer. Nearly two thirds of the league last year had not yet reached three years of MLB service time in 2019, meaning most had yet to even secure their first million-dollar contract. Add in their tax bracket, union dues and agent fees, and the actual amount that players take home off their pre-arb salaries is indeed probably lesser than most would assume from the outside looking in. It’s worth pointing out, of course, that ownership could push back with similar means of demonstrating that their revenues are less than most would assume.
Taking a step back from the finer details, it’s rather remarkable to look at the above timeline, realize that it spans more than two months, and think that the two sides are still, in essence, diametrically opposed without any real willingness to compromise to get a product back on the field. The NHL and NBA have approved plans for a return to play, but the distrust between MLB and the MLBPA with collective bargaining talks looming in 2021 continues to stand in the way of a suitable compromise.
Hopefully the independant leagues will sign on with ESPN. Frankly I think I would enjoy these games much more.
No joke, independent leagues can be a ton of fun!
So can slow pitch softball…
Hey you get back under that bridge!
…only if there’s a keg on 2nd base.
My slow pitch softball league starts up in mid July.
Homer Simpson once declared,”Who cares”
At this point I’d prefer that. Go Florence Y’all’s!!!
Why not let the AAA players play ?
Then we could see the up and coming new talent ?
Because scab baseball worked out so well in 1994.
1995. Nobody expected a fact to come from you Blue.
The strike was in 1994 which led directly to the use of scab players in 1995.
You don’t add a thing to any discussion except general nastiness, do you?
It s not a scab. It’s a permanent replacement.
Bogus statement. You have zero accountability or ownership for your mistakes. Must be a west coast thing. You were inaccurate. At least you are consistent.
Some apparently have difficulty thinking this through, or don’t know the history, so here it is, laid out. Any player who is currently in the minors making dirt pay has only one dream and that is making it to the majors where they can join the MLBPA and earn at least the major league minimum. Those minimums and all of the other protections are set by the CBA through negotiations between the MLBPA and MLB. Nobody who is currently in the upper echelons of the minors will want to play in the majors without the protections of the CBA, and they are also going to look at any strike or lockout as not a permanent thing. They will not want to have to look their fellow players in the eye some day and have to explain why they were a union buster. That’s why in the strike/lockout of 1994-95, the only players who took the bait of playing as scabs were a bunch of no-hopers. If essentially amateur baseball being played in major league parks is what you want to watch instead of the best in the game playing, then this the plan for you. Because it worked out so well before, right?
No, stop. We already know your entire reason for being here is bitterness and general jerkatude. We get it already.
Look up Rick Reed, let me know if he was a “no hoper”
Rick Reed. Again, you are wrong Blue. If me pointing out your inaccuracies means I am bitter than I swallow that bitter pill. Add that to your list of “I need to be accountable for my bogus mistakes” list you should be tabulating. It’s a very long list.
Millar too.
Two out of hundreds. Is that the best you can do? (It’s a rhetorical question.)
Nice effort to spin one of the saddest and most damaging episodes in baseball history into something worthwhile. Nice, as in, idiotic.
But really, you can quit now. You have proven your purpose here.
Looks like the only player who’s going to get paid this year is Bobby Bonilla…
Prince Fielder will be paid.
Prince Fielder’s contract was voided when he was forced to retire
Prince’s contract was not “voided”. The Rangers reached a settlement with the insurance company that allowed him to retire.
The Rangers’ portion of his salary was insured, but the Tigers still had to pay him $6 million per season through 2020. They are paying him $6 million this year as the final payment. You can check that on Cot’s contracts.
Price Fielder is still getting $24 million in the final year of the deal this year. his contract was not voided, but reached a settlement with the insurance company.
Usually a contract is voided when a player retires. Doesn’t matter if they retire out of nowhere like Barry Sanders. Or from an injury. Once he was traded to Texas they must’ve added an injury clause. They knew he was hurt..said he. Passed the physical when he failed
You can’t compare baseball contracts to football. NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed, so yes if a player unexpectedly retires there they forfeit the contract. MLB contracts are guaranteed. Regardless of what happens to the player they get paid that money
Which is why the Angels haven’t asked Pujols to retire for the good of the team. They’d still have to pay him.
Fielder also didn’t officially retire until this year I think (but is still getting paid through the insurance agreement others have mentioned). But before that he was deemed “medically incapable” so that he was essentially just constantly on the DL/IL because if he were released the Rangers couldn’t collect insurance.
The Rangers had to cut a deal with the insurance company so that he could retire. He had to remain on the 40 man roster, which wasn’t an issue during the season because he could go on the 60 day DL, but in the off season he would take up a spot that could be used for another player.
Insurance coverage is very much an individual thing for each player. It’s very expensive and protects the team in case of a total loss. This is some of the most secretive information in baseball.
Ichiro Suzuki is the highest paid player right now!
No, Zach Cozart is the highest paid player this year! By being cut by the Giants before the league was suspended, he’s owed his full $12.5M salary no matter what. Who would have thought that being cut would be the best possible thing for an MLB player in 2020…crazy!
I’m sure the Angels are still paying someone somewhere
The Marlins owe Wei-Yin Chen $22M no matter what
Add to that the CBA is up after this season too…. it’s going to be a weird time.
After 2021
It expires in December 2021
Thats alot of ca ching for chen
I still shake my head at that one
I wish I had his contract!
MLB fails to exist without fans attending games and watching and listening to their broadcasts.. MLBPA will not earn salaries without fans. Despite those facts, neither side cares about the fans. As a long time fan,, I am sick and tired and losing interest. No baseball in 2020 due to money and I am done.
Don’t worry. They will settle. This is all posturing. Everyone getting worked up. They will be playing by July. 81-game season for less than 100% prorated salaries. Players not going to get zero pay for 2020, so they are bluffing. Owners are just trying to move players off their “we must have 100% prorated salaries” position, so they are suggesting less games. Please trust me. This is going to get done.
I hope you are right
I have thought that too but starting to think there won’t be a season
They needed to agree already for a July 4th start. Without an agreement this week even an 82 game season becomes tough with extended playoffs, which are needed for additional revenue
Plus baseball players and owners are both dumb enough to harm the game tremendously just to get their way
No agreement in the next week and it’s RIP baseball for the next decade or so
Only if they allow fans in. As I posted a month ago, a small market owner made this clear to me. I read that the State of Texas will allow fans. Until more states also do so and the dominoes fall there won’t be any sort of compromise. Everyone involved is too greedy. The players are really in trouble. The economics of baseball, and really the world, have changed. The players should take what they can get at this point.
Bluffnutz, they will work it out despite no fans. You can’t believe what you hear from a small market owner, who is telling that to anyone that will listen to try to get public sympathy, which gives them leverage. Don’t believe anything MLBPA says either. They both know it has to be worked out; they are just hoping other side caves first. Plan to watch baseball in July.
“Plan to watch baseball in July.”
LOL
Please……
It’s June 6. When Spring Training was disbanded, players and owners understood the issues. Since then NOT ONE issue had been agreed upon. Zero. Nada. Zip.
The time to end the “posturing” was a month ago, and to get down to serious negotiations. Americans don’t give a %!?+) about MLB’s issues; or for that matter, if the season is played at all. People are getting outside (weather is nice around the country) and going back to work……for a small fraction of what those players are paid.
Very few care – least of all having to listen to the arguments from the players agents. Cry me a river.
When they end up working it out and playing in July it won’t matter what they said on June 6th. The result will be the same and all the people that said they wouldn’t care and wouldn’t watch will have their TV on watching.
I disagree that all issues were known in March when Spring Training ended. They had no idea at that time how long they would be out, when and under what conditions it would be safe to play, and whether fans could be present at games. They had no idea if testing would be available to them and in what quantity. They had no idea how many players would test positive. There was so much unknown. All had to be worked out, so not a surprise it’s not worked out yet.
Of course, both sides are greedy. I’m not saying they aren”t. But this is quite typical of labor negotiations. Sides posture until it’s just about too late, then one side caves a little and a compromise is reached. That’s what will happen in next 10 days or so. Just watch.
“The players should take what they can get at this point’
This is why labor unions were created in the first place, because ownership gave nickels percentage compared to the value driven, not only on the baseball fields, but on the assembly lines. Yes, I know we are racing toward the bottom again, where telling the workers “take what you can get’ is in fashion, but since not everyone can throw a baseball 98 miles per hour you can’t just tell these guys to piss off (or outsource their jobs) like you can a steel worker.
Bregman Altuve Correra Springer Verlander etc all are banned for life? If not MLBPA is saying to the fans to drop dead which is the message that Blake Snell told them. Let’s hope all the players and owners go bankrupt cause they are all horrible rotten human beings
Ditto…. have no sympathy for either side. And am seriously considering not to watch and go to games anymore.
I don’t know what’s worse. Endless discussions about an ill advised season or the pathetic ads for an ill advised precedent. I guess we’re just bidin’ our time until the end of democracy and baseball. Sad.
Fun fact. Democracy exists elsewhere than the USA. Might even exist in a better forms elsewhere.
It cracks me up that the US system is based on getting rid of the King, and now you have a wannabe King.
Hopefully everything sorts itself out. The world is a better place when the US has good leadership.
We do not have a wannabe king. We have good leadership now except for congress.
Amen brotber
LOL.
For a King, the wannabe is doing a poor job by rolling back regulations and allowing states to govern. How can this wannabe King not control everything and everyone like a dictator? Could it be he’s not a dictator? Uh oh, your fun fact has been quickly dismantled. That did not take long.
If you have some teen angst to work out I’m sure there’s a street you can walk and protest. Forget about social distancing since it’s a non-issue now, allegedly.
Go find the better Democracy and move there. If they let you.
We have no Democracy here, we have an oligarchy. Both sides are controlled by monied interests. Supreme Court equates cash to free speech (which is an abomination of judicial “activism’), one side does everything it can to disenfranchise votes to where turnout in this nation is often under 50%. The media, OWNED by the same corporate interests do “news” to cloud serious issues, obfuscate or simply ignore, pitting one side against the other while the big boys run off with the loot. They sign a CovidBill handing trillions to the largest corporations in the world. THOSE entities don’t have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, just the working man.
Funny thing about Kings, they don’t have term limits do they?
July 1 to October 4= 96 days. Season over by November 1.
Revenue:
$2.2 billion local TV
$3.1 billion national TV- subtract about $800 K for post season
$1.1 billion sponsorships
Player salaries $4 billion
There is more TV revenue per game during the regular season than prorated player salaries. Owners are not losing money by playing more games unless that TV revenue is guaranteed regardless of whether games are played.
Some things your estimates don’t include:
More games = more travel costs, even if by bus, and its not a school bus, 114 games busing players around (multiple buses so they aren’t in closed quarters with each other sitting right next to each other). Players don’t foot the bill, owners do.
More games = owners paying cleaning crews to clean club houses to prevent covid spread, ground crews prepping fields for play each day.
More games = more hidden costs
There are two types of operating expenses, and very little information available to the public about how much they are. But what we do know is that most of those costs have remained steady as revenues skyrocketed, and player salaries soared, though not nearly at the same pace as revenues.
Baseball operating expenses are much more costly than club operating expenses, and they will be dramatically reduced. Minor league salaries, scouting, player development, coaching, and spring training costs are all reduced.
Team operating expenses are also decreased. Travel is reduced, staff travel, stadium costs, etc. These are far less than baseball operating expenses and in any case are a spit in the ocean compared to the billions of costs for player salaries and revenues across the game.
What is not included in operating costs are debt service payments, which are not related to the number of games played. MLB owners that are going to lose money still have to make those payments and they want to shift the cost to players. Not by reducing games- that’s a big bluff, but by using the games to extract more money from the players, and by squeezing amateur players and minor leaguers.
You are pointing out one of the largest variables: media dollars. Are the teams still collecting on those contracts? Who knows? Nobody seems to even want to talk about it. All I know is I am still paying my cable bill for game broadcasts that aren’t happening. Is the cable company simply booking that revenue from their hapless customers and giving the teams none of that money? Somehow I doubt it, but if nobody even asks, how would we know? The other variable that is apparently completely off the table for consideration is all the tickets that have already been sold. Sure you can ask for your money back, but I imagine many if not most season ticket holders haven’t done that. The teams are booking that revenue this year too. It doesn’t take much thinking to see all the revenue floating around that seems to be uncounted.
Teams are collecting season ticket money but they can’t book it as revenue until the games are played (accounting 101). They have a prepaid liability on their books until the season ticket revenue is ‘earned’ (games played). So not one team has any revenue from ticket sales yet; all they have is the cash, but have a corresponding liability to fulfill before any of it gets booked as revenue.
I understand the accounting but these are private corporations that don’t have to abide by GAAP that are required of public companies. They could very well show season ticket sales as revenue this year and losses next year when those customers cash in their vouchers. Meaning, the loss of ticket sales revenue can be spread out over two years, if that’s what the teams want to do. We just don’t know how they are handling any of this, and nobody seems to ask.
Yes, they still have to follow GAAP rules (all corporations , public and private do for tax purposes). They also are audited each season as well. It’s the only way they can secure financing from outside lenders.
For years many public corporations reported non-GAAP and then both ways. I’m not sure if it was an SEC requirement that started the trend towards GAAP reporting but it started around 15 years ago. The point being, we don’t know how the teams are booking this revenue, but it seems apparent to me that accounting procedures would not require them to book the liability this year since it won’t actually be one until next year.
Public companies are required to follow GAAP. Private companies are not required to do so. Also, this is not for tax purposes, it is for auditing purposes. A private company can actually issue tax basis financial statements. Private companies are not required to use GAAP and tax laws do not mandate the utilization of GAAP.
That’s what I thought but the point wasn’t to get into a discussion about accounting procedures. The point is a lot of the money in the game seems to be off the table for discussion. Nobody even asks about how much media money the teams are still receiving, and that’s huge. I can see why the players are so skeptical about the numbers being disclosed by ownership.
Keep in mind that the owners or teams have more over head than just the players salary. Therefore your math is going to be way off.
Bigjon- I am referring to the false claim that it costs teams money to play more games. That simply is not the case. They make more revenue per game from TV revenue than they pay out in player salaries, by a huge margin.
I’m not saying that some teams won’t lose money, but they won’t lose money by playing more games unless the TV revenue is guaranteed even without playing games.
Dorothy- you are right about the revenue from gate receipts. For purposes of discussion, I would just write that off as though they’re not getting that revenue. That’s 29 percent of their revenue for gate receipts and another 8.8 percent for concessions and other in game revenue gone.
Mr Blueskies- the article at Five Thirty Eight that concluded MLB was not losing money by playing games used a figure of 75 percent of local revenues still coming in. The truth is we really don’t know. Worst case, they’re not getting less than a prorated share of that revenue, and probably getting the whole thing on the national side because it’s so tied to the post season and any extra playoff games more than makes up for anything lost in regular season national TV revenue.
There are 30 separate contracts for local TV revenues, and two thirds of MLB teams take an ownership stake in those RSN’s, so they’re paying themselves, and the real revenue picture is cloudy, especially when they own the network outright.
As in your case, you are paying the cable company for a subscription fee, and that’s where they get by far the most of their revenue, so payments to teams may not even be contingent on games being played. These are 10,20 and 30 years or more contracts.
Are your numbers including payroll taxes because the team pays that?
Additional costs to sanitize an entire stadium?
Additional cost to test every employee that enters that building?
Additional cost to test media people that enters that building for after game news conference? Because they are also contractually obligated to have mediathere.
The additional time above normal setup time for socially distancing practices?
Possibly extra security to prevent people from getting around protocols and “jumping the fence to see the game illegally?”
additional insurance to protect against any covid related issues that may arise.
I’m sure there are a ton more expenses i cant think of off the top of my head. You can say these are small amounts but multiply that per player per game per team and that takes probably another good chunk of extra costs for playing games.
All valid points, but together, they don’t move the needle when we’re dealing in billions of TV revenues and player salaries.
Yes, payroll taxes are included in player costs- always. So is their health insurance and other benefits. Those come to about $15 million per team, per season. Included in payroll.
And all of those “additional costs” are much less than the cost of catering to 50,000 fans and stadium employees each game.
Right, because players salaries are their only expenses.
That’s great, that means all a company has to do is furlough it’s staff and it wont lose money.
Did you go to the A.O.C. school of economics?
So the only expenses teams have are player salaries?
Starting to get annoying. Just like political parties, the two sides are supposed to work together to achieve a common goal and not against each other for solely their own interest. I hate the idea of no baseball but hate more what it is becoming. Just shut it all down and start working on a long term agreement to assure successful longevity of the sport.
48 games is not a season. Just cancel it and I agree with hockeyjohn. This game is simply not what is used to be
I totally agree. Read this both owners and players: CANCEL THE SEASON-WE DON’T CARE !!
I care
I care
You are a typical Red Sox fan. You don’t care because your team is going to suck for awhile.
While I want as many games as possible, there’s no way the owners will give the players anything in regards to their books. I think only two teams (could be off) are owned by organizations that have to publicly report their books. The other organizations are privately held companies and showing them their books is not mandatory. And why would they show them as they prepare for a new round of CBA negotiations?
I think it’s safe to say that the owners are likely not off on their estimation of how much they’ll lose without fans in the stands. If you consider that most owners use tickets as 30-45% of their budget, that’s a lot of lost revenue. Add in loss of TV revenue from less games, and they probably are staring down a 55-65% loss of revenue per club.
The players asking to see the books is less offensive than the owners asking their staff (the players) to finance their losses. Does a grocery store do that with THEIR staff? No of course not.
“I think it’s safe to say that the owners are likely not off on their estimation of how much they’ll lose without fans in the stands.”
Why should the players make that assumption? If the owners are asking the players for money, the players have every right to seek verification at the very least.
Just cancel it if it’s 48. It will be a joke. Let everyone stay safe and come back strong next year.
48 is more than 0.
Play ball!
Billionaires arguing with millionaires. Life is tough isn’t it?
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it?
Clubs vs Diamonds?
Grasping irony is apparently not yours.
Both sides should be ashamed at posturing at a time like this. People I know have died and lost their businesses from this disease and to the way it’s been handled. Listening to listen to this rhetoric is disgusting.
This is pathetic at it’s most pathetic. But worst of all I fear the ownership basically saying they’ll set the terms of the schedule is a signal for the Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations. They’re basically already saying we won’t compromise. This may not be the only break from baseball. I can’t help but feel a strike or lock out is inevitable.
I agree. If they cannot come to some agreement for this season, it sure seems to set up a precursor to an even more ugly negotiation next year.
Absolutely. This isn’t really about 2020, which at best will be a meaningless season, it’s about 2021.
It takes 2 to compromise.
Players have agreed to be paid full salary at a per game rate for the games that they play (which is good money even for the guys making $560,000 — are you?). If they think it is too dangerous, they don’t have to play — they even get paid if they have a “condition.” They get the ML time. they have a better deal than 90% of Americans, and non-Americans with jobs here.
Without fans, the Owners are losing 35% of their revenue. They think they will lose money by playing but they owe it to the fans to have some games and a postseason. Is it too much to let them decide how much they want to lose?
Everyone gets something. Everyone loses something.
Shut up and Play Ball!
The owners have a better deal than 90% of Americans if neither side agrees to anything. I guess the owners should have let the players see the books if they really thought they had a position to argue from. You can’t go ask for someone’s money and then get angry if that person wants accountability for the money you are asking for.
48 is 47 games more than i need to be satisfied
It seems from the wording that the author of this piece has chosen sides.
Doesn’t matter.
The fact is the Owners put on the show and the players perform.
48 games and a post season is fine.
Play ball.
Which owner hit the most HRs last year?
Which owner struckout the most batters?
Which owner stole the most bases?
Which owner won the Cy Young?
Which owner won the MVP?
Who puts on the show again?? The answer seems fairly… simple.
Which player made sure the team had a park to play in?
Which player paid the salaries of all the players on the team?
Which player was sued for anything that happened at the ballpark?
Which player built a bigger video board so the fans could have a better experience?
Which player has to pay their employees full salary even if they are injured all year and don’t play a single pitch?
Which player flew the team to each city?
Don’t just blame the owners. The team owners and the players need each other and they are both being unreasonable.
So if 2/3’s of the players had less than 3 years of service time those players more than likely really need to get paid. The owners offered a larger overall % of pay to these players. So who is the union representing here? They are supposed to help the majority over the minority if it comes to that!
Sounds like the agent fees and union dues may be way to high. Maybe they should look to cut those???!!!
This is like the Boston Marathon deciding to have a 10K instead. Sad.
If the Marathon was run over several months and postponed due to a pandemic, then yes it is like that.
Actually, the BM was first rescheduled and then cancelled. In the past, there have been races that were shortened. This 48 game mini season just seems like a bad idea from the get go. I just can’t imagine the fans will buy into it. By the way, a marathon represents the end of months of training, it’s not just the event itself.
When MLB was caught colluding against the players they were fined 220 million dollars. They expanded, adding 2 new teams at a buy in of 110 million each. I sees expansion draft info on this site almost every day. Think about it.
…more update about Monopoly League Baseball.
Dig – of course it is a monopoly…..if you own the Yankees and the New Mexico Clodhoppers baseball team files a lawsuit to play your Yankees, who do you think should win the lawsuit?
I am starting to lean heavily to the owner’s side in all of this and here’s why: no one is looking at the bigger picture. These are dark economic times all across the globe. In the USA the unemployment rate is at an all-time high and many of us who have been lucky enough to keep our jobs have had to take a pay cut to do so. With that bigger picture set, why do major league players constantly feel they should not have to make salary concessions? The minimum salary for major league players is $563,500. That is more than $500,000 more than I make and I had to take a 25% pay-cut to keep my job. The median annual salary in the USA is under $35,000. So, I am really sorry you have to pay your agent…..
The players also tend to make it sound like the owners are making money hand-over-fist, they give the players a little, and keep all that money for themselves. The problem with that, which players never mention, is that they are part of an organization, and the owners need to pay everyone in that organization. Go to the Pirates home page and click on ‘Front Office’. You will find a list of 349 employees. All of them have expenses. Many have taken pay cuts. Many have been let go. The owners have to pay these 349 people in order to allow the 26 players to play. The owners also pay all of the expenses incurred by players from travel arrangements to accommodations to food etc etc. They also will now need to pay an estimated $50 million for all the testing and health protocols. Yes, owners want to make a profit but let’s not lose sight of the fact that they incur far more expenses and are responsible for far more people than the players.
Lastly, every team has cut between 30 and 60 minor leaguers over the past month. That is more than a 1,000 baseball players who are now out of a job. I have yet to hear one major leaguer mention these now out-of-work players (and before someone mentions it, David Price is financing current players, not cut players).
In short, we all want to make all the money we are entitled to get, but we also need to step back and take a look at what is going on around us and realize that there are many who are far less fortunate. It would be nice if the players understood this. To put it all in perspective to those who have read this far: the major league minimum means that, at the very least, players make $3,500 per game. For me, that is more per game than I make in two months. How about you? A 60-game season will get them, at the least, $210,000. It will take me almost 5 years to make that. How about you? But I don;t have to pay an agent so I guess that means I’m better off.
Comparing yourself or the average person to a professional athlete’s salary is not apples to apples. You don’t have a skill that is worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.
Nor a limited time to cash in on that skill.
The average person has to buy groceries and gas and provide for their families just like the overpaid players so the money issue IS “apples to apples”.
So, based on that logic I guess first responders, teachers, doctors have a skill set that is unique and yet they remained grossly underpaid.
However unjust it might feel, the market sets the monetary value of the skills one brings. While being a first responder or teacher adds value and should be paid more, the market has set a value on what those contributions are worth in our society. Same as with a professional athlete. The market has determined that skills of a baseball player are worth at minimum $563,000 while the skills of other occupations are worth considerably less regardless of how noble those roles are. That doesn’t make it right or justified but at the end of the day it is reality. Deckard’s skills were worth $63,000 and now they are worth 25% less in today’s world. He may not have leverage to dispute that while baseball players do. But this is the reality of the world we live in.
Baseball players are just entertainers like musicians or actors. A musician playing in a hit pop band plays in front of huge audiences and gets paid accordingly. A musician playing original rock, jazz, or classical music in front of a small club or auditorium audience makes very little. Some of those grossly underpaid have immense talent. That is kind of where baseball is at least fair. Talent is for the most part rewarded.
Right so as baseball players don’t impact my life, but teachers, first responders, and doctors do, Wouldn’t it be a wonderous thing if these owners and players thought of others besides themselves during this time of global suffering?
And not only is it unique, it is important and necessary. Baseball is fun, but it is neither important or necessary.
Players and owners are both selfish.
1: However Deckard has a pretty good point there are quite a few of these primadonna players who aren’t worth their salary. Especially those who get their “big” contract and never hit or pitch again. There aren’t worth much that way.
2: Most of the players are whining now about not getting their full share are told to say that by those agents right now.. Kind of like that greedy Scot Boras who does his own whining besides his players… Mostly he is whining because 5% of Deckards 210,000 for those cheaper players is what 10.5 k instead of 28k+ he wants from these starving players who only make half a million+ a year.
3: he is also correct about having to take a pay cut to keep your job this year we also had to take that 10% pay cut for us to keep a job… And we ain’t getting that money back anytime soon if ever. So those lucky enough to work through this are hurting more percentage wise than the median average players and yet those whining primadonna who have already made their millions are the ones who cry unfair not the median average players who have lesser skills and will be out of baseball sooner!
4: Which one of those 1.5 million dollar a year players aren’t replaceable by a cheaper player! if their replaceable than they don’t deserve that full salary but the get it anyway.
Is that skill really worth hundreds of millions of dollars? To who? There is only one pro baseball league in this country. It is run by the owners. Believe it or not, the owners didn’t create, buy and don’t run these teams for our enjoyment. It is a business. They do it to make money. If they stop making money they will close the business. You can hate the owners all you want, but they own the business. They are not going to operate at a loss. If mlb folds, these players will go from having a skill worth hundreds of millions of dollars to “Would you like fries with that?”
It’s only worth that if enough people are willing to watch it. If not, the skill is worthless.
My opinion is if you don’t share the profits then you don’t get to share the loses. MLB will never fully open their books. If the owners truly feel they’re going to lose too much money this year. Don’t play.
@deckard——loved the way you started your last paragraph: “In short”. I was worn out about 3,651 words before I got there.
Well said. The 349 names is why I can’t stand with the players. They fight for themselves, nobody else. The 349 is actually bigger when you factor the minor leagues and part-time scouts or team consultants who’s names aren’t on the website. The players are pampered and coddled beyond belief yet the selfishness might be the worst part.
Some of the responses to your post have been very lame. You made a lot of sense here.
Time to start a new league, with marginal players and youngsters. Beats all these overpriced players
People keep trying to write off debt service as an owner-only expense but that is naive. All corporations and LLPs carry some sort of debt service and that impacts their overall profits at the end of the day. Billionaires became rich because they are smart and savvy. None of these owners ponied up $1B in cash to buy a team. They all secured loans and that is part of doing business. So for Boras and the union to discount debt service as a real team expense is beyond ridiculous. It’s like saying I’m a millionaire because my home is worth $1.1M, when in fact I still have an $800K mortgage to pay off.
If 40% of total revenues come from fans, there is no way the owners are making a profit this year. If baseball teams were that profitable, their valuations would be 2X or 3X of what they are today given the amount of revenue the league brings in. That would mean the owners are clearing $5B in profits each year. That’s not even realistic.
Dorothy Mantooth was a saint!
I don’t think that Boras was discounting the service debt. He was saying that owners made good investments, but that when those investments paid off, the players were not getting any of the benefits from it. Now, they’re including that in their calculations to say they’re losing money as an excuse to cut player salaries.
Some teams will make a profit this year if they play a season and pay prorated salaries. The Tigers are one, for sure.
You are confusing debt with debt service. In your house example your debt is $800k (and your equity is $300k). The debt service is how much you have to pay annually to carry the mortgage.
Maybe the owners should open up their books to show that.
Dorothy Mantooth has a good point too.; If we look at a public club who has to show their books like say the Atlanta Braves that team made a profit of 90M and 40M in the last 2 seasons…. so take that and figure how the heck they are going to survive on less than half of that If they are lucky to make close to that in a half season when they might not even get to the playoffs. Now the lesser volume teams which there are quite a few are making less than that!
Most of the teams getting less revenue also have lower payrolls. I wrote this about the Tigers in an 82 game, or MLB proposed scale scenario.
With a payroll under $ 100 M, or under $50M for 82 games, and with their guaranteed share of revenue from MLB national contracts plus whatever the deal is with Fox Sports Detroit, they would turn a profit this year with no fans.
blessyouboys.com/2020/5/28/21273605/mlb-salary-pro…
What I find to be the most damning is that the focus isn’t on the “end-customer.” Because everyone is squabbling over the business, the one entity that EVERYONE should beholden to: the fans, don’t factor into the equation. If the fans suffer, the business will suffer. If the fans aren’t happy, the business will suffer. Everyone has to compromise…. so do it, stop trying to posture in the news, and play friggin ball!
Not interested in watching a 48 game “season” at all. They need to figure out a way to play 82 at minimum and stop making the drama so public. I’m one that would get over all of this once baseball is back in full, but I can see how this would put a long lasting bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth.
Don’t watch.
If you’re not a fan, your comments aren’t meaningful.
Bye bye
MLB has lost me as a fan forever.
Adios. It’s the same game as it’s always been (more or less).
Just less of it.
A more abbreviated timeline:
April 16: You blink first.
May 11: No, YOU blink first.
May 26: Seriously, YOU blink first.
May 31: We’re not joking here. You blink first.
June 3: Blink or go home.
The genesis of the ‘Roids/PED scandal was the 1994/95 strike. If this season goes down the tubes, what could possibly renew fan interest?
Baseball is lucky that they are the only major sport on in the summer. While fan interest will go down, they won’t lose that many of them due to this fact. Plus going to a game, sitting outside and enjoying the atmosphere in the summertime is hard to beat. Fans are lemmings and they will come back.
This is also true of advertising revenue on local TV broadcasts. As far as reaching that particular demographic in summer, baseball is the only game in town.
That lucks about to run out next year – basketball will be playing thru the summer now (starting on xmas)
How funny it is, basketball did everything it could to try and find its niche hidden from baseball and football for 20 years, now its just straight coming to steamroll over baseball with no regards
A covid vaccine would work wonders. Everyone will be pretty happy when that happens.
Don’t hold your breath. The coronavirus is similar to the common cold in terms of chemistry, and we’ve had several hundred years to not find a vaccine for that one.
MLB made a huge deal of Cal Ripken breaking Lou Gehrig’s record in1995, and fans came back.
There is a lot more competition for the entertainment dollar now. It will be interesting to see how MLB fares if they don’t play this year.
MLB’s biggest demographic is baby boomers, so popularity will be big question over the coming years as boomers start to die off.
The 2020 season was cut short by the Chinese Virus.
Players and Owners are trying to figure out how to have a season without fans.
48 is better than nothing.
Short and sweet.
Almost half the teams make the playoffs.
More baseball.
Let’s go.
Play Ball.
All this isn’t about playing this year. It’s about the future CBA negotiations. Both are signaling they are willing to play hardball. Could they compromise? Sure. Will they? Who knows.
At this point neither cares about the fans. The players aren’t paid by the fans directly but the owners and the owners only care about making money. Sure, they can’t make money without the fans but they assume the fans will come if the games are played.
They’re compromising, sort of.
Players are making their full salary pro rated.
Owners are deciding how many games to play with 37% less income without fans.
Fans are deciding to watch or not.
Play Ball!
I fail to see any public recognition of the irreparable damage both sides are causing to general fan interest in MLB. They should already have been warming up in spring training 2.0 by now.
Very simply, but.. if you were set to earn $1m in a 162 game season, that means you earn approx. $6200/game.
Pro-rated for a 50-game season, you now earn nearly $310k, obviously a 100-game season then doubles that to nearly $620k. Though owners proposed more cuts than just pro-rated salary through a longer season. I don’t know how much those cuts were to be but I imagine that $1m player would be expected to earn somewhere between $300-$600k bracket under that plan.
And so on, if you were getting $10m (more rare of a player), the owners plan would see you getting $3m-$6m depending on level of cuts, again over a shortened 100 game season with plenty of other moving parts going on to league finances.
How about a major national alternative to MLB. Other sports have tried over the past few decades but none have the absolutely pitiful relationship MLB and the MLBPA have toward each other.
An alternate league needs massive start-up investment and likely has to play in venues where cities and current MLB franchises don’t already have agreements in place for existing stadiums.
Current free agent players become instant all-stars, just by way of playing experience and many independent players fill the ranks for a few years until more former MLB players are free of contract and eligible to sign where they please..
Smaller venues and better fan experience can make it a popular venture. Just how to entice playing talent to come when 1 in 10,000 (?) get Mike Trout or Gerritt Cole money
How often do we already see MLB games played in stadiums filled to half or quarter-capacity?
Sounds very much like the AFL back in their beginning.
Both sides need to just come to the table with a bottom line. Make a decision and do it. Play or cancel. Quit negotiating through the media.
The only way it makes sense that 50 games of prorated salaries are acceptable to the owners, but more games (81 or whatever) would not be, is if the owners are telling the truth and are actually going to lose money that way. If that were not true, then more games would be better for both players, and owners.
I find it hard to believe that the owners would be willing to take losses for 50 games, out of the kindness of their heart. But unless that were true, more games would not only be better for the players, it would be better for the owners. Perhaps the deal is that anticipated money in playoffs is greater and is where the owners expect to make their money back, even though the regular season is a partially losing venture.
Will be interesting, the sides are not as far apart as it appeared a few days ago actually. We’ll see if they come to an agreement, perhaps not likely, but also not impossible. I did find it interesting that the owners were willing to pay prorated salaries for 50 games but not more.
One of two things is likely.
A. Most of that national and local TV revenue is guaranteed regardless of whether games are played, so teams have already received that revenue and would not lose it by not playing, or
B. They are bluffing- using the number of games played to extract more salary concessions from players, knowing that their revenue is tied to games played.
If the former is the case, that means that MLB agreed with RSN’s (which they partly own) to play games but are unwilling to pay the players to put on the show. If you’re a cable or DirecTV subscriber, how do you feel about that.
If the latter is true, they just need to work out the details because it really benefits both sides to play as many games as possible.
The solution could be in more post season games, deferred salaries, or other areas.
Media contracts are not standardized so it is actually likely that the 30 teams have negotiated 30 very different terms. Some teams might be getting all guaranteed money, some partially, some based on games played, others not. Some might share in advertising revenue, others not. Then they share their net media revenue with MLB, and not every team is doing that in the same way either. The Dodgers for example don’t have to kick up as much of their very rich media deal as others because it was negotiated through the bankruptcy court. Only MLB knows the real numbers and they are not telling.
Exactly. I believe the Dodgers’ local TV deal was priced at $84 million for revenue sharing purposes, but then they signed a 25 year contract worth $8.35 billion. So they get a huge windfall that isn’t shared.
When teams take an ownership stake in a RSN, that is not counted in revenue sharing either. So they cut themselves a sweetheart deal, paying the teams less than the value of the broadcast rights to reduce revenue that is shared, while the teams make money off their own payments to the RSN. That also has to be fixed.
Meanwhile, I’m here in Orange County and I can watch every game except the Dodgers because I’m one of the 70 percent that doesn’t get Sportsnet LA. Bass turds!
I don’t remember the numbers. It wasn’t discussed that much at the time even though it seemed to me the sweetheart media deal was one of the most significant aspects of the acquisition. Selling through bankruptcy was a huge financial advantage to both the seller and the buyer and one of the reasons the team sold for 2-3 times more than anyone expected.
Why don’t you get SportsNet? Ironically Spectrum finally struck a deal with Direct before this season, not that there’s anything to watch on it. It was never 70% BTW. The blackout was around half of the market, which was bad enough.
Selig did that deal to get rid of Frank McCourt and his wife. He still owns the parking lots at Chavez Ravine. He doesn’t control the land but he gets a chunk of any development and rents it to the team for $14 million a year.
I had DirecTV then dumped it for youtube tv. I dropped MLB.tv at the start of the season but I could pick it up again if they play ball.
If you trust wikipedia, this link says they had 30% of the local market when they cut the deal, then expanded from there.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_SportsNet_LA
MLB didn’t seem to have much of a say in the settlement. The courts have the final word on bankruptcies. They can void the terms of any contract it if makes creditors whole. I know McCourt still owns the parking lots and a share of the development rights. It’s painful to imagine that some day they might decide to so something worthwhile with all that asphalt and McCourt would be a beneficiary. That was his reward for bankrupting the Dodgers. Worst part about it, he wasn’t any more lame as an owner than Fox. They were even more clueless.
@Patrick
I agree wholeheartedly on deferred salaries… that could be part of a solution, they get paid for 50 games this year with the rest deferred… something like that. So many creative possibilities. Just seems like as this article points out, 30 games of salaries not that big a deal – for either side. I mean, for a player, how bad would a 50 game season be? It’s kind of an experiment anyway due to the unique circumstances, and at least that way, the players should feel like their contracts being honored on some level in terms of per performance.
Anyway the revenue side is way too complicated for me to have an interest in… I just want to see some baseball! Sounds like you are a Dodger fan, you should at least get to see Betts play since you guys traded for him. I’m a White Sox fan… hoping once they start to play that they will have a chance to be at least respectable with a positive future. They were so bad for the entire past decade, jeez. Dodgers have won 90 games for the past 8 years or so, and still have one of the top 3 farm systems even without any top 20 draft picks since 2012 or something? How is that possible? I keep saying that the White Sox should hire someone from the Dodgers minor league scouting, even if they massively overpay, just to find out some trade secrets. They must have some incredibly bright people, seriously. The White Sox pretty much the opposite… their entire rebuild from some very good trades, but very little success in terms of great choice of draft picks.
They need to stop the drama, because Stone Cold said so.
LOL! Thank you for this
I thought the Commissioner had the power to start the season with as many games as he see’s reasonable with the March pay agreement as the foundation for player payment?
“as many games as possible” is what the March agreement says.
MLB already proposed an 82 game schedule. It’s hard to argue now that only 50 games are possible.
I’m admittedly a little slow here; is the Commissioner waiting until he feels the sides will not agree then implement a season with games and the March pay plan? If so, tell the owners and MLBPA you have until this date to agree on a plan or I will step in… The Commissioner of Baseball may be the strongest of the major sports Commissioners… Come on Manfred act like it..
The commissioner IS the owners. He is negotiating- or issuing demands, on their behalf.
He’s their mouthpiece up to a point then I think he has the power to implement a season…
Only if he can count to at least 15. We don’t know if that many owners would be willing to poison the well for the next CBA negotiations even further by supporting the commissioner barreling right through the players. The price for doing that would be high.
Who cares anymore, teams and players are treating the game as abomination, become only sport to not participate, see how many fans care next year.
Sadly, more than you realize will come back.
Baseball has been on the decline, especially with the younger generations. They can’t afford to lose any fans
Younger fans watch games online or TV and only a few actually go to the games.
Terry – I agree that many younger fans do not go to the ballparks, and this will become an increasing problem for MLB as there will be less revenue generated at ballparks. I can’t wait to see if the players are willing to share in the declining sizes piece of the pie.
Contraction or teams moving seems like real possibilities.
Great article Steve!
At this point I really don’t care anymore, let these million and billionaires fight over $$$.
I have been watching the KBO and loving it.
I’ve tried, but I just can’t get into it. I don’t know why…I have watched, but for some reason it just doesn’t do it for me. I like the mini-skirts, though. Maybe if I had a team to root for or knew more of the players. The quality of play is decent.
The player’s wear mini-skirts in Korea?
The clock on this season and a whole lot of careers is ticking. A lot of wives (girlfriends) should explain to the players that something is better than nothing. Holding out isn’t going to prevent you from having another birthday. Tick, tick, tick.
Here’s a possible outcome. If both sides don’t compromise and return to the field then the commissioner will institute whatever game schedule the owners want >48 and <82. The players, then, will have to decide if they accept that. If not, then the players are on an official strike which means no pay and no accumulated service time.
The first possibility i obviously the best. The second route….
Technically that wouldn’t be a strike because the CBA is still in effect. If the commissioner unilaterally changes the policy, they are violating the CBA and it would be considered a lockout. In that case the players would get their full salary.
It would in all likelihood be viewed as a strike by the owners of the players refuse to show up to work.
Legally,no. A collective bargaining agreement can’t be modified without the consent of both sides to the original agreement. Remember, allegedly both sides agreed to a prorated salary for games played. When ownership tried to change the agreement, the agreement is null and void. In that case you go back to the original CBA. Since ownership offered 82 games, they can’t come back with a 48 game offer. Now if the COVID 19 virus starts to experience a spike in cases, especially in areas housing MLB teams, the owners can use health and safety as a reason to cut the number of games. A contract is a contract. When Aaron Judge was unanimous Rookie of the Year , 3 years ago, leading the league in merchandise sold, he was bound by his minimum salary. Since he wasn’t arbitration eligible, he got very little raise the next year. Conversely, Chris Davis is grossly underperforming his contract, but the Orioles can’t unilaterally lower his pay
To me, the simplest way to evaluate all the posturing on both sides, is that the owners just don’t want to pay the players. The players countered MLB’s proposal with 114 games, so that they could earn as much as possible thru the prorated structure. But roughly 50 games, seems a little light to me. The compromise, for the good of the game, and a good- faith effort to keep owners/players/fans “intact” is to play a 70+/- game season, with a solid postseason, and then look to 2021. If MLB doesn’t get on the field soon, the sport will have a hard time coming back next year and beyond and the value of each franchise (for the owners’ sakes) will plummet. Why don’t the owners see that???
I get your point. However, the Commissioner;s office thinks they have this right given Paragraph 11 of the UPC. I don’t see it but a clause does allow the league, if there is a national emergency, to not field teams and not pay. Also, service time is suspended as I understand it.
Lol Technically we are in a national emergency and all salaries can be voided at the owners discretion. It has already been noted that all those standard MLB contracts have that provision.
2: the players union agreed to the clause that they couldn’t even sue when they agreed that even with no season the can keep the 170M already payed to them.
If we are in a national emergency, why did the owners propose an 82 game schedule? If they void the contracts that would make over 1,000 free agents. If the owners had the right to void the contracts they would have done it by now. The fact that they haven’t means they can’t legally do it
One thing the players would not have to accept for sure is expanded playoffs. They would have to agree to that.
I would further argue that imposing a 48 or 50 game schedule violates the March agreement which requires them to play “as many games as possible”. Since the owners already proposed 82 games, a shorter schedule does not fit that criteria. And if the owners claim that they’d lose money, then
a) pony up some proof and
b) that doesn’t make it not possible, especially since they’ve been given billions to broadcast more games
So it winds up in court with no games and everyone loses.
New list of priorities circa summer 2020:
1. Help daughter prepare for Ivy League academics and athletics experience
2. Hope career doesn’t crash and burn (hat tip to pandemic and social unrest) so I can afford to pay for daughter’s education
3. Redirect sleep patterns so I can watch my NC Dinos “go prehistoric” on their competition in KBO
4. Get some exercise
…
1532. Recall why I gave a crap and spent so much energy on MLB
This is really pretty simple!
Players: We will accept nothing less than an exact pro-ration of our full season salaries for the number of games played.
Owners say: OK, since 37% of our revenues in the regular season come from attendance, without fans we will lose money, but in the interest of baseball we will play as much as we can afford in regular season then have a robust post season.
Players: 114 games.
Owners: Can’t afford that, 48 games. You get paid-to-play proportionately. Fans get games. We don’t go broke which will allow us to spend money in 2021 and beyond.
Smart Fans: Well, we’ve had short seasons before, it’s getting into summer already, let’s Play Ball and have an interesting and entertaining Post Season.
Analysts: No matter how many games they play, some teams will sneak in, some will be left out. The playoffs will probably still have the Dodgers and the Yankees – Play Ball!
The least number of games in a season was about 106 in 1981’s split season. 50 games would be half that and actually less than the second half of 1981. Ironic fact, the neither of the teams that had the most wins total played in the playoffs. The Cards had the most wins in the NL East with 59 and The Reds had the most wins in NL West with 66. Neither, qualified for the playoffs since neither won either the first of second half. Talk about getting ripped off. That was also the only time a team played in a playoff without having a winning percentage K.C got in winning . .485. Sorry for the history lesson but I really hated the ’81 season.
When they voted on the format to resume the season, they voted to put the Yankees and Dodgers into the playoffs. Go figure!!!
A sore spot for me, a Dodger fan since ’68. Being pissed at the game, I didn’t watch MLB at all after the strike ended. This includes the World Series won by the Dodgers. It is the only WS I haven’t watched since becoming a baseball fan. An asterisk in my life.
You’re right, it was awful.
Is no season awfuller?
Let’s play ball.
No matter what the season is going to be short and strange.
7 of 15 in the playoffs, if you can’t be in the top7 in a short season, tough.
Let’s go, shut up and play!
Shut up is not directed at the writers above — it just means lets quit arguing and play ball
They can play a 13 week season, with 2 days off per month. This will have room for 84 games, with an extra day off.
For a one time thing, move the all-star game to the end of the season, to be played after the first round of playoffs. The players selected to the team that are still in hunt won’t participate, unless left off the next playoff series.
The season would go from July 6 to Oct 4, with the last game being a day game. Oct.5-7 would begin the first round. The Oc.t 7th game would be a day game, if necessary, and the night would have the home run derby. Oct. 8th would be the all-star game.
Having the all-star game during the season would require at least 2 off days for that week, so moving it to the end of the season turns those off days into games.
I agree. I’ve been saying this. And I don’t think they need 3 full weeks of spring training.
I just can’t imagine how these two pathetic organizations will be able to negotiate a new CBA for 2022. Especially when you consider how gosh awful and petty they both look to the public in the midst of these health issues and civil unrest. They just don’t care. They say they do but they don’t.. I have always considered myself a baseball fan first and foremost, but the strike in 1993 got me more interested In football and the NBA. I still enjoyed going to BB games and watching on TV, but the strike changed my thinking and loyalties. This right now is a joke. It will change people once again. I know it has already changed me. Go Blues!!!
The Fat Lady is singing !
Perhaps we could cancel the season and just go into playoffs based on last years standings. That way no players would receive any money on their 2020 contracts. You could have team 14 and 15 in each league play a best of 7 series to see who gets the 14th seed and then start best of 7 series in each league with 1 playing 14, 2 playing 13, etc until we have a tenant champ and then on to a World Series. Hopefully they could agree on compensation during these playoffs. It would be like a huge MLB March Madness. And where these are all elimination playoff games the TV rights can be split with the players in an incentivized way.
Only if the Tigers get the first draft pick again!
Yes, draft picks would be based upon 2019 standings since there is no season only playoffs.
Or you could have 12 play 15 and 13 play 14 and the winners play each other for the 12th spot and give a bye to teams 1 thru 11 to keep it even. These details can be worked out. But no 2020 salaries. Only playoff compensation for everyone based upon an agreed to formula.
Or if you wanted a 16 team format, so you would have an even number of series, you could have the 2 teams in the MiLB WS fill the one extra spot in each league as the 16th team.
Better yet, give the 16th spots to the expansion teams selected by Tim and Connor. Here’s hoping some of those many relievers selected can swing the bat.
I’m tired of both sides. Just cancel, be gone with it. I’ll decide when I’m not so pissed if I ever support both sides with my $ and viewing.
This is just getting too old.
I don’t know how much interest their will be in the playoffs with only a 50 game season.
Which is sad because the only reason they are doing 50 games is to decide who goes to the playoff. The teams don’t seem to care about the season, only the playoff’s.
48 games is an exhibition season. It’s baseball, and maybe it will satisfy that urge, but it has no place in history. Extended playoffs based on a 48 game season lack legitimacy. Again, it’ just an exhibition season in which the results will be thought of as irrelevant. It’s clear the two sides have no common ground, because there’s no trust between the sides–and there shouldn’t be, given the bad faith bargaining that’s gone on.
Very well said.
Simple solution: Let the two sides square off in a game of Sports Challenge. TV ratings would be outstanding. All that’s left is for them to agree on a replacement for the late Dick Enberg. How hard can that be?
Just cancel the season who cares anymore, they blew it and would not be special anyhow.
Again, just let the fans in. The scared can stay home. This has to be part of the equation.
Seems unfair to most fans. It would limit attendance to the poorly educated.
So people that disagree with you are “poorly educated”? Must be great to be so enlightened.
All the world’s health experts versus a man who has never worked an honest day in his life. Where do you place your trust?
Please provide references for this “never worked a day in his life” comment. Or is that the opinion others told you to have? I forgot NPCs don’t have their own opinion, they are told what to think and gladly shrug the burden of critical thought.
Bazinga
James Midway, as we’ve known all along, your emperor has no clothes.
Might make it easier for natural selection to take its course though.
Hey moron. You do realise the survival rate for this corona virus is north of 99 percent right? Oh wait you dont because youre a brainwashed bot that believes everything the media tells you
Wakanda, MAWA…right?
This latest update indicates they’re communicating via letters?? Trying to keep couriers in business maybe? Sending a letter is not the best symbol that one is open to progress and mediation.
baseball is always behind in times, they don’t even know what a Zoom meeting is yet,
Nonsense. Those within the game are well-versed on the latest inventions by the likes of Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell. “Commissioner Landis, come here. I need you.”
They should make it a chain letter. You know how those things go. By the time they get to the end of the chain, there might be an agreement.
Do you mean the MLBPA should send a letter stating that “DO NOT IGNORE THIS MESSAGE – The last person to ignore this letter thought it was a joke, but that night he was visited by the ghost of peg-leg Laura and killed in his sleep. All you have to do to keep Laura’s soul at peace is forward this letter to five friends and also to agree a deal to play baseball in 2020.”
Communicating via letters seems very lawyer-esque (not a good thing)
Passage is an idiot that failed basic math.
To quote from the article: “then the difference amounts to 34 games’ worth of prorated pay. Even accepting the figures ownership has floated at face value, the dispute — at least viewed through this lens — boils down to about $326MM in total, Passan surmises.”
2020 full contract salaries due mlb players (not including minor league call ups, cotributions, or any in season signings) is publicly known to be 4.1 billion.
34/162 of 4.1 billion is 859.5 million.
So he’s more than a little off there. What’s more, there’s payroll taxes on that salary. Federal payroll tax for 2020 is set 9.15% NOT counting state and local taxes in some areas.
Now we’re up to over 938 million. That’s almost a billion dollars or nearly triple what he surmises… and wonder how much further he is off as well…
Give him a break. He is a goofy journalist.
The figure of 4.1 billion is for the 40 man roster and includes payroll taxes and player benefits worth about $15 million per team. Those figures are used for luxury tax calculations as well.
Curiously, Passan uses only local TV revenue, no national TV revenue and no central fund revenue. There is another 3.3 billion there. Maybe he assumes that is not dependent on games being played.
No, it’s not.
Player salary contracts do NOT include payroll taxes.
You don’t seem very educated, although you like to try to pretend and pass off things you read somewhere as if they are fact.
The fact is that there are TWO sets of payroll taxes to every salary. The ones the employee pays, and a SECOND matching set the employer pays.
The 4.1 billion is simply contract values for the players as reported by Cots and mlb. It does NOT include the employer owed taxes (some of which are employer only like federal unemployment cotributions)
Pretty sure, even after taxes, agent fees, and union dues, the half mill they started out with is still SIGNIFICANTLY more than I make working 40 hours every week, so,
WWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!
But that’s just for the next couple of years for most of them, if they are lucky, and then they’ll be on the clock figuring out what to do with the rest of their lives.
Throwing a baseball accurately at 90+ mph is a unique and sought after skill. Sitting on your fat behind and picking your nose is less in demand. That will explain the disparity in salaries.
Set up a BASEketball league and move on
I get it. No question. Million, 2 milliom a month is just not worth it to play baseball this year. Boras agrees. Please ESPN provide us with Independent baseball? Ala The Asian baseball facsimile.
Thank you
I’m beginning to think the owners don’t want a season, as they’re finding everything to use as an excuse. If there is no season, players get service time anyway, so what difference does it make to them if a player sits out for legitimate health reasons and still gets the service time? It’s hardly the issue to stand your ground on.
I’d be interested if they have pandemic insurance. Don’t laugh, the World Bank issued 300 billion in pandemic bonds in 2017 that would default if a pandemic was declared by the end of 2020. They made a killing when a pandemic was declared and the bonds they sold defaulted
Latest News, Notes On Return-To-Play Negotiations
September 25th, 2020
The two sides are near an agreement on a 2 game season following a six week fall training preparation.
No point in even having a 48 game season.
Good time for some players to break off and set up another league. They can stream the games and share the revenue so wont need modern ball parks to play. The golden age of MLB is over. Players will never see the golden contracts of the past in the New World to come. Those with existing long term contracts will stay the course but younger players should consider. Some billionaires will gladly finance such a venture.
If either or both sides do not want to compromise then quit the “Dog and Pony Show” and cancel the season. This is getting very stale.
Why not start indépendante league whit the players that didnt get a job from 2018 offseason who many didnt come back
Mike napoli
Evan gatis
Or other That i would enjoy to see play
Henley ramirez
Jose batista
Russel martin
Bartolo colonb
Yaseil puig
An many more
Helo me whit the roster for fun
1: Ian Kinsler (2B)
2: Martin Prado (3B)
3: Hanley Ramirez (DH)
4: Adam Jones (LF)
5: Carlos Gonzalez (RF)
6: Matt Adams (1B)
7: Evan Gattis (C)
8: Addison Russell (SS)
9: Billy Hamilton (CF)
Most boring lineup ever.
For all the owners and players, I have a quote from that great philosopher Napoleon Dynamite, “IDIOTS”.
Repercussions from this will be much worse than 1994, due to what is happening in the real world.
No, it won’t be worse. This is not a standard dispute. It’s two sides navigating through a pandemic.
how come all the other pro sports leagues are navigating the same pandemic better?
1994 was worse montreal expos was heading to ws if the strike wasn t there
God damn the owners and players are so selfish. No play no pay for player and no rev for owners. Seems simple….screw corona its not a huge threat like they are tried to make it out to be? I mean shoot once these riots all started you barely hear about corona. If you fear getting sick just stay home and dont go to games. If players fear getting sick than they dont play or get paid. There are plenty of minor league players itching for a chance to play!
It is a thing Zach. It’s not about fear of getting sick it’s about the reality of spreading a pandemic disease. Baseball is just not that important. But let’s talk finances… it doesn’t make financial sense for the owners to play this season. It also doesn’t make sense for the players to take the health risk, which again, is a real thing. Cancel the season. Let other sports mess it up and stumble through it. Start fresh in 2021.
The are called protests not riots
way to lose a fanbase… sickening
Who cares. Independent league = the new MLB.
I love baseball, always have. I played it for years. However, at this point, I would just rather have them cancel the season if they are only going to play only a low number of games. Right now I would be more up to watching past women’s college world series games.
players want to play 82 games. league wants to play 48 games league now agrees to to pay prorated salary. why can’t they agree to 60 games? btw, league wasted the whole may by proposing lower compensation and when they faced strong opposition from the union, went back to prorated salaries.
Players proposed 114-game schedule to the Owner’s 82-game schedule. 50 has been floated by certain media members (claiming Owners have said this) due to loss of time and how quick teams can come together, play exhibition games and get back into season-mode.
Please stop spreading disinformation again.
read.
Does anyone give a damn about the fans in this mess? Both sides better start paying attention to us. Cancel this season or play a farce of a 50 game season and MLB is going to be in serious trouble.
Baseball, the third or fourth sport will sink to virtual oblivion. Fans will disappear and focus on other sports. If these guys don’t see that, that are amazingly foolish.
Small market teams continue to slow the growth of the sport
After over 4 decades of following baseball religiously.. I think I’m done.
The protests around the country are showing us all that we don’t need to practice social distancing anymore. All the same politicians who were telling us we needed to stay at home last week are out in support of people gathering in the streets. There is no reason why baseball can’t start back up.
And the players who keep citing “health and safety reasons” as to why they don’t want to play, while insisting they get paid, just come across as people who want to collect their paychecks while they sit at home doing nothing. MILLIONS of us were sent home from work for over 2 months and got NO pay! And here in Nevada, most of us haven’t gotten any help from the state!
There was no reason why they couldn’t play games in empty stadiums so we could at least watch on TV. But no. Had to completely shut down.
I have come to realize that following professional sports (ALL of them) is like being in a bad relationship. You get teased. You have your emotions played with. You have your heart broken… and all the while the people doing these things to you don’t even know you exist!
Yeah.. I think I’m done. We don’t need MLB or any other professional sports league.
Bye
This delay to the 2020 season was due to coronavirus reasons & health concerns. Now the delay has become a fight over greed, money, and ego.
Why not put all this aside and develop a 3 way compromise for the Fans, Owners, and Players???
Stage 1. How about allowing up 10K fans attend for the first 4 weeks with social distancing guidance in place, seating arrangement plan for each ball park? First 4 four rows left empty to protect the players. Players receive 75% of prorated salaries per game for the first 4 weeks.
Stage 2. Next 30 days: Fans can increase up to 20K, players receive 87.5% of their prorated per game salaries.
Stage 3. Day 61 stadiums now allowed to be at full capacity. Full prorated salaries per game for players.
Stage 4. Playoffs expanded, player pay would be normal playoff terms. & stadium allowed for full capacity.
Assumptions:
82 game season
30 man roster
14 teams in playoffs
Universal DH
Any team that has a Governor that will not allow fans to attend can have the option of sharing a stadium of another team in a neighboring state.
Still might not be the optimum solution for 2020, but the idea is to be damage control to the sport for years to come. It would be a shame for Baseball fans only watching other Major Sports in the middle of a Baseball Season!
All but a few of us wish we even had 1st year players salaries, and the amount of money the Owners have is incomprehensible.
We can imagine Player Salaries, at least at the low end, but the amount of money that Owners have, to most of us, is incomprehensible.
It’s hard to feel sorry for them if they lose a few hundred million in 2020.
Except most of them aren’t so foolish. And they don’t keep that kind of asset in cash. They don’t like NOT making money on un-liquid billion dollar assets. They don’t think like many in these blogs: “Oh, they can afford it!”
That’s not how they made their money.
It’s a non-starter.
Without the gate receipts and concessions, they will lose money putting on games. They want fewer games.
They do want a robust post season when TV money is big. And shared.
Think like an Owner: minimize losses, maximize winners.
50 games is a short season. But, no matter, in the Summer, it’s still baseball.
And the Playoffs will be interesting and the sooner the better.
Not in November, in October.
Let’s play.
Millionaires fighting with billionaires…
And the rest of us peons can just deal with it.
And I, for one, refuse to spend another dime on anything related to professional sports. I’ve been in bad relationships before. The relationship I had with pro sports is just as bad. If not worse.
Then why are you on here commenting on them?
It’s ovah- a 50 game season is just the owners’ ploy to get the postseason money grab. 50 games would be a sham as yearly you see flawed teams competitive past 50 games and it takes June then August to filter out pretenders. 50 is a joke
The players are not innocent in this either.
Perhaps college baseball will take the place of MLB on TV. Then we dont have to hear about millionaires OR billionaires.
It’s June. Schools are closed. Don’t appear to be reopening soon
I meant longterm. most universities are opening in the fall.
College ball is a good idea too.
The best part of college, foreign, and minor league baseball is there are far fewer prima donnas who obviously aren’t playing as hard as they can every inning of every game they play.
amateur, and minor leaguers (including foreign league players) all want to make it to The Show. Smart ones play as hard as they can 100% of the time.
Many major leaguers obviously dog it after they sign a big contract
True. I wouldnt mind if MLB disbanded and a combo of indie leagues and college ball soaked up the airwaves.
Korean baseball is better than I expected.. Watched a few Australian league games on YouTube over the winter.. And I can watch Atlantic League games on YouTube as well (GO DUCKS!)
I don’t need MLB
People in the major professional sports in America, be it players or owners, do not give a single piece of poop about us fans. If they did, they wouldn’t be fighting right now and would be taking steps to play ball.
hey are not fighting about you, you know?
Yes. I know that full well.
They don’t care about us. We don’t exist to them.
We fans, in large part, have contributed to this millionaire vs billionaire fiasco playing out before our eyes because we have made them millionaires and billionaires by paying top dollar to see the cream of the crop. Why dont we just save the money and use it to buy sporting equipment and play the game with others on a local level like that did pre tv? People actually played sports and music locally for recreation and entertainment. It wouldnt hurt to get the exercise for our health either. A quest for perfection shouldn’t turn a nation into couch potatoes drinking beer, eating pizza and sitting in 2 separate bathtubs after we take Cialis.
Won’t ever give Major League Baseball another dime. Hope it all collapses. What an absolute joke.