After back-to-back injury-limited seasons, the Angels expect a healthy Shohei Ohtani for spring training in 2021, Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register reports. Ohtani has been throwing from 120 feet of late with roughly 75 to 80 percent effort, according to Fletcher.
This is welcome news at the outset of the offseason for the Angels. who probably haven’t gotten as much out of the ballyhooed Ohtani as expected since they signed the former Japanese standout before 2018. The two-way Ohtani more than lived up to the hype as a pitcher and hitter in his first year, but elbow problems limited him to 51 2/3 innings then. He subsequently underwent Tommy John surgery, which stopped him from pitching in 2019, and then threw a meager 1 2/3 frames this year because of a flexor strain.
All said, Ohtani has given the Angels 53 1/3 innings of 4.39 ERA/3.89 FIP ball with 11.14 K/9 and 5.06 BB/9 across 53 1/3 innings. As a hitter, the 26-year-old has slashed an easily above-average .269/.340/.503 (126 wRC+) with 47 home runs and 29 stolen bases in 967 plate appearances, though he did struggle in 2020. Nevertheless, Ohtani’s someone the Angels will continue to bank on, both as a starter and a designated hitter, in 2021.
Someday, he’ll put it all together and be a legit MVP candidate. It may not be sustainable, on the health end of things, but eventually, he’s going to be healthy and in a groove and be a beast on both ends of the ball.
It’ll never happen. He hasnt done it yet, in 3 seasons, and hes getting older not younger and putting a helluva big toll on his body. Theres a reason why they typically dont let players pitch and hit or play more than 1 sport, and hes showing why that is.
He did it in 2018 and then he got hurt. So players can’t comeback after from TJ surgery? I think everyone who follows this game disagrees.
U can disagree all u want, that’s ur prerogative. But doesnt change fact that japanese players dont succeed in majors the same way they do in japan, minus Ichiro, or fact that in 3 seasons his stats and playing time have drastically decreased. Hes pitched 12 games in 3 yrs for christ sakes. Hes not a bad hitter but he ain’t winning no mvp awards or even silver sluggers. Bet?
I’d have done it too but I sucked in low level college ball. Part of being an mvp is being able to avoid being hurt.
I don’t accept your premise. You can say it, but it doesn’t make it true.
He was very good in his first nine starts before he got hurt. A 3.01 ERA.
And Japanese pitchers have come over her and done quite well.
As far as a hitter, in his first two seasons here he was very good. a 136 wRC+ Which put him at 17th between George Springer and Howie Kendrick in all of baseball. Do you know how many years Ichiro had a wRC+ of 136 or better? Zero.
As far as pitchers and hitters coming back from TJ surgery. They often come back as good as new.
So I’m not really sure what your point is.
Bigdaddy.
Health is a skill. No question about it. But I think it’s too early to know if Ohtani has that skill or not. One TJ surgery is not enough information for me.
U (You) can disagree all u (you) want, that’s (your) prerogative. But doesnt (doesn’t) change fact that japanese (Japanese) players dont (don’t) succeed in majors (Majors) the same way they do in japan (Japan), (.) (M) minus (With the exception being) Ichiro, or(nor does it change the) fact that in 3 seasons his stats and playing time have drastically decreased. Hes (He has) pitched 12 games in 3 yrs for christ (Christ) sakes (sake). Hes not a bad hitter but he ain’t winning no mvp awards or even silver sluggers. (He is a pretty good hitter but will not win a MVP award or Silver Slugger). (Care to) Bet?
I may have missed some corrections, your knowledge of the English language leaves much to be desired.
You can write your version of novel all you want to but you are still dead wrong, troll!
I don’t give a flying leap what he did in Japan. I do care what he did offensively his first two season here, and I do care how well he pitched before he got hurt.
And I would bet against almost anyone winning MVP. But i will definitely bet he will get MVP votes. Which would mean someone thought he was one of the ten best players in the league.
I’ll definitely vote on that. I’ll even bet he gets a top ten finish before his career is over. But at least that’s the bet. I can see how you feel he wont get there. But I’d make that bet. I think it’s easy money.
Matsui also came over here and had a solid career. WS MVP
Thank you grammar police
Hey…grammar counts.
Great job correcting spelling and grammar. You have proven you are the smartest man on the board. Nobody really cares. Can you read and understand it? All you need in a reply.
If you are going to be so snarky at least make it less painful to read @drascoo36.
Of course Japanese players don’t succeed “the same way they do in Japan”. They are completely different leagues. Yu Darvish was nearly the Cy Young winner this year and Matsui had a very good career, garnering MVP votes a few times.
That’s as far as I had patience to read in your post with how it’s written but I’m sure there is plenty more there to reply to
Now, look at draso036’s only sentence. A comma is incorrectly used between two compete sentences instead of a colon (;).
2018 Season #1
He pitched great until he hurt arm. Put up some good offensive numbers and TJ surgery after the season .
2019-Did not pitch His offensive line was similar to his 2018 numbers.
2020- Strike shorten season. Couldn’t really ramp up. Angels shut him down and relagated to batting in 44 games.
He’s a front of the rotation pitcher. 2021 could be his best year.
We didn’t have a strike this year.
He was actually posted and signed in 2017 with a grade 1 UCL on his pitching elbow.
People forget that.
usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/12/12/angels-sh…
And, Ricky Adams, he did it in Japan long before he came to the US. He has a track record and should be back to form once healed.
If I had to put money on one side of the scale, I’d bet he will come back and be a legitimate MVP candidate.
A lost 60 game season after TJ surgery doesn’t move the needle to the “he wont do it” side. Two lost seasons after TJ surgery would. But not one.
The guy batting .190? oh ok
As a hitter or pitcher he didn’t come back fast after TJ surgery… Unbelievable.
Wow, lets take him out back, put a bullet in his head and bury him. He’s obviously done. Those 175 ABs tell the entire story.
and you are? striking out in t ball!
Reply to angelic: no.
Fox471.
Like most people on the internet, you speak in absolutes.
I have no idea why anyone believes a player who had TJ surgery at age 24 is incapable of making a comeback.
I understand how people might be skeptical, but I’m betting yes. Eight months from now, based on more information, I may change my mind. But I doubt it, this guy is just too talented to bet against.
He could be.. I’m a Dodgers fan, but from the outside looking in, I definitely see the skill set. I was just listening to the Big Swing podcast, and they had Seager on after the WS. He talked about how brutal the recovery from TJS and hip surgery were, and how he never felt totally right through ‘19. He said that the extra time this season, was huge for him. Seager is different, in that he’s not out there pitching but Shohei has done this before. He’s still young and super cheap, so they need to handle him with kids gloves. You can look at the Dodgers and see how they’ve handled Julio Urias and Walker Buehler.
I wouldn’t mind seeing an article or report that Ohtani is trying to be a closer or a relief pitcher. If starting isn’t working or too much then why not try it? Any pitching at all would help and I think he maybe then can hit more often if he only throws maybe 5 – 10 innings a week. More value for him and the team and honestly he seemed good the first few innings then struggled from what I remember….just a thought or suggestion
Agreed
Remember when Babe Ruth stayed injured all the time and didn’t live up to all the hype. Me neither.
Remember when Babe Ruth struck out Josh Gibson and hit 3 home runs against Martin Dihigo? Yeah, me neither.
Didn’t know Ohtani did that. Impressive.
Right Joe. After Marino Rivera had major elbow surgery in 1992. His career was over. He was about the same age as Ohtani when he had his surgery.
You don’t come back from that.
You can’t seriously mention Ohtani in the same sentence as Mariano Rivera.
He just did.
And his point was having TJ surgery doesn’t mean you can’t have success after. There is no reason to believe Ohtani can’t return to his 2018 pre-surgery playing level.
Ctguy, only that they had major arm surgeries around the same age. Which was my point.
I’m not so sure, the guy arguing that Ohtani wont be an MVP is saying that he wont come back from the injury.
I just think he is simply stating that he wont ever be able to pitch AND hit both at a high level for a sustainable amount of time.
Now, I’m not so sure why the fact he’s from Japan has anything to do with anything, because it isnt like we see American born players doing it either..Point remains, if anyone can do it, Ohtani has gotten as close as anyone.
Me, personally, I’d give him another couple years as a starter. If he proves he cant handle it physically, then I’d try him as simply an opener/reliever/closer. I think Ohtani could handle that role well, extremely well.
Everyone always wants to make snap judgments these days, but baseball isn’t game of patience, where players have to fully develop to reach their ultimate ceilings..
Fan88. It’s a reasonable position. He’s unprecedented. If people admit it’s a guess, then their guess is a good as mine.
Ohtani is barely 2 full seasons into his career and has been working his way back from Tommy John for the majority of it and has managed 6 WAR. He doesn’t need to live up to the hype and he’s still an incredibly valuable and productive player.
I’m not saying he sucks. I’m saying the Babe Ruth comp was stupid then and even more so now. A better comp would be Rick Ankiel.
So the Babe Ruth comp was stupid because he had a surgery that nearly all pitchers have nowadays? Shouldn’t we let him have a chance to be a two way player until we say he’s not a good one?
I agree.. Any comp to Babe Ruth is stupid.
And just to be clear, I hope he does well. Though I think a young athletic guy like Ohtani should be in the field and not a DH.
He’s a regular Brooks Kieschnick
And if he can’t pitch, they’ll likely put him in the field.
TJ surgery is serious. I don’t think Ohtani is done. I think he had a recoverable setback. We’ll have a better idea in eight months.
you are right. ohtani is not an associate of gangs and he is certainly not an alcoholic!
Agreed. Either way, you still have an extremely productive middle of the order power bat..That certainly isnt nothing, and that’s at the very least..
Ruth did have his issues and ultimately wasn’t fit to keep pitching. In any case, it’s pretty clear Ohtani is no Ruthian legend.
Like Ruth, maybe Ohtani will be mostly useless as a pitcher after turning 25.
He seems pretty useless as a pitcher now.
I lol’d at the last comment @ JoeSays and maybe even snorted…. but enough about me.
Ruth comp is dumb regardless of how much time we give. He’s not on track to be a HOFer, and he’s not what you bought; oh well. Who cares. Happens to the best of us. He hasn’t given any indication of being able to sustain the heavy workload of a two-way player and stay healthy yet.
Halo11: Rivera had elbow surgery and was successful, yes; but he was not a SP or a two-way player. Maybe he will prove us all wrong and Babe Ruth the crap out of baseball in 2021, who knows?
But he’s better off playing a position and contributing FT for them rather than trying to accomplish a feat that is virtually unheard of, except Babe….freakin’….Ruth!
Yankee Clipper
There is not a team in baseball that would be upset they acquired Ohtani for the money the Angels paid. Not one.
I’m not sure it’s as easy for an RP as people say. They have to get up and throw 100 times a year. They are used back to back to back days on intermediate schedules.
And my biggest complaint about people who are sure the Ohtani experiment is over, is they really don’t have any idea. Give me 2 to 1 odds, I’ll bet on Ohtani every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Heck, give me 1 1/2 to 1 odds and I’ll make the same bet.
I agree 11, however, I think 2021 will be the year that will determine his ability to maintain a two way career. I hope he can as he did in Japan. I know they have been working him at positions too. If he drops to one skill, I think we need a solid pitcher over a position player at this point. We will see.
If he was moved to a relief role, I’m sure it would likely be first as an opener of sorts. They’d likely treat him alot different than your typical relief pitcher.
I hope him and McKay can both succeed at it, but unlike Ohtani, I dont think McKay’s bat is ML ready..
Joe, he already turned 25.
it would seem like a 2 way player, like Ohtani, would seriously benefit from spending big on taking care of his body the way Russel Wilson and LeBron do. Not that every player wouldn’t benefit from it, they certainly would. But not everyone has the drive to pursue that sort of program. The big question then remains; does Ohtani?
Do we know he doesn’t do that? (Sorry if that wasn’t what you were implying.)
Nope just fucholz being a bigot. Also those two guys are making 30 million plus but bigot’s going to bigot…. the anti Asian sentiment is showing already
johnnydubz – this is the most ridiculous comment of the week. Congrats.
Please enlighten us – what part of fucholz’ comment suggested he is anti-Asian?
I’ve never heard anyone question Ohtani’s work ethic. As a matter of fact, the exact opposite is true.
His comment doesn’t make him a bigot, but it does show he lacks some knowledge on the subject.
That’s what I expected, johnnydubz. Accuse in the absence of evidence with nothing to support the accusation. That’s cowardly.
You’re asking if he’s as driven as those guys to work on his physique? Obviously not, nor are >95 % of MLB players. Not anywhere near that class. They do their work, but it’s not like that.
Pro athletes tend to be more driven than the rest of us. Their profession requires their bodies to be in tip-top shape. Why would you think Ohtani is different? Growing up in Japan, I doubt he filled up on donuts and potato chips as Americans do.
Now, im glad he picked the Angels instead of the Rangers.
Are you really? Wow. There is not a team in baseball that wouldn’t pick him up at this price tag.
That’s what jilted fans always say.
you are dumbing down texas. a tall order!
It’s not that he lacks the talent to be a hitter in MLB or a pitcher. The question is can he do both and stay healthy. It’s very demanding. So far the answer is no, and it won’t get easier the older he gets. It would be a shame if he never achieved greatness as a hitter or greatness as a pitcher because he tried to do both instead of focusing only on one.
Yep. Totally different training regimen between the two. There is a reason why we never see it in MLB. It’s difficult to be “great” at one or the other, let alone both.
People put way too much stock in him not hitting the floor running after TJ surgery.
He had no spring training and then he’s thrown into the season and couldn’t find the strike zone in the two innings he pitched.
If your opinion is different than it was a year ago, then you really don’t know baseball all that well. If you think he’s done because he’s had TJ surgery, then you really don’t know baseball at all.
He’s like every other pitcher coming back from TJ surgery, he’ll either make it or he wont. And none of us know which side he’ll land.
“the Angels expect a healthy Shohei Ohtani for spring training in 2021…” I think they were expecting that in 2018 and 2020 as well. The Angels always hope for healthy pitching yet never get it.
They were hoping it in 2018, they were not expecting it. Everyone knew he had a issue with his arm.
And no one expects players to hit the floor running after TJ surgery. You hope they do, but they typically don’t.
I think being a back end reliever and OF/DH on days he doesn’t pitch (or even if he is pitching, would be nice to not have to bring in a PH late in games). Not only is he not getting any younger but people forget that these Asian players are used a TON in KBO/NPB leagues over there. By the time they are allowed to be posted, there is a lot of wear and tear to these guys and alot of times it doesn’t work out. For every Ichiro or Matsui, there are 5 to 8 Hideki Irabu’s. Not saying they can’t do it over here but the odds are against them right from the jump.
The odds are against most players reaching for the pinnacle of the sport. There are so many ways to crash and burn and most who try, do.
Ohtani’s second Major League start in 2018 was one of the most impressive pitching performances I have seen in recent years. He is tremendously talented. However, given his health history, the Angels obviously need a contingency plan in case he can’t pitch.
Regardless, I am rooting like crazy for him to succeed. As baseball fans, we all should. The game needs more great players, not fewer. Given his talent, he has a legitimate chance to be great if healthy.
Cey Hey. Why does one Tommy John Surgery scare people off.
Pitchers with TJ surgery who came back and were great.
deGrom, Strassberg, Wainwright, Smoltz, David Wells and of course… Tommy John, Rivera, Chris Carpenter… and on and on.
I wish he didn’t have it, but my opinion of his chances hasn’t changed since he’s undergone the surgery.
Halo, I agree, but he’s also a pitcher and we know all teams need to have depth when it comes to starters. The Braves didn’t expect Mike Soroka to miss a season at age 21. Unfortunately, starting pitching is thin throughout the game. And it will probably get worse as teams move more and more to bullpen games. Talented young players aren’t going to want to grow up to be openers.
Re the Angels: Contrary to conventional fan wisdom, they have more arms than quite a few teams. SP depth would be excellent with one or two smart moves this winter. This would decrease expectations regarding Ohtani. Pretty solid without him, outstanding should he make it all the way back. Looking at current rosters in the AL West, there are more question marks with the teams at the top than with the Angels. Fans are overlooking Adell’s potential due to the limited results of a weird season. That’s not how baseball works and baseball are probably not doing that. No one is going to take Wil Myers off the Padres’ hands because of what he did in a 60-game season.
Aging is a hell of a force, even on the most gifted of athletes. He put on a lot of miles quickly and pushed himself to great feats. It has a price, unfortunately.
I really want to see Ohtani succeed as a two-way guy. I know health wise, the odds are against him, but I’m hoping to see him find success in the U.S.
And I don’t think the odds are against him yet.
I don’t think they are strongly in his favor, but I don’t think they are strongly against him either.
I’m not saying he has a 1:1000 shot of doing it, I’m just saying that he’s going to have an uphill battle.
“Most talented”
He’s the fastest player on the Angels, has the most power, and throws the hardest.
If there is a more talented player in baseball, I’m not sure who that could be.
As an Angels fan, I love Ohtani and hope he is successful as a hitter and pitcher. Having said that, if I’m the Angels FO, I’m not counting on him for many innings in 2021. In the last 4 years combined, Ohtani has pitched 77 innings – 25, 50, 0 and 2. No pitcher can ramp up to 150 – 180 innings after throwing 77 total innings the past 4 years with only 2 innings coming in the last 2 years. His pitch count and innings will be monitored closely and severely limited.
I don’t see how you can count on him to pitch. I also don’t see how you can count him out.
He’s like every other player coming back from a major injury. He’ll either make it back or he wont. And no one knows which side he’ll fall on.
I love Ohtani too (great for the game) but until he can stay healthy he’s a bust.
How can a player who had a combined wRC+ of 136 his first two years in the game and a ROY winner be a bust?
Do you guys even follow this game? A bust? You people are insane.
Looking at Rick Ankiel’s age 19 and 20 seasons as a pitcher and ages 27 and 28 as a pitcher makes me wonder if more patient development with him as a two-way player could have produced different results.
I wonder if Ankiel came into baseball 20 years too early.
I have no doubt he would have been treated differently.
Ankiel got the yips and couldn’t throw strikes anymore but definitely talented enough to be a two way player.
Ankiel’s comeback was remarkable and I’m glad gw9999 brought him up. I can’t imagine experiencing the yips as he did. And it started in the post-season when everyone was watching. At the same time, much was being made of his father being in prison. The glare of the spotlight must have been blinding for Rick.
I was living in the Johnson City, Tennessee area when he started his comeback in the Appalachian League. He went all the way back to short-season rookie ball. Talk about a fall from grace. His book tells a wonderful story that kids need to read. When the door to your dream closes, don’t give up. Just adjust your goals and keep trying because another door might open up. Heck, adults need to read it as well.
Arte will waste him too with the pathetic bullpens he’s been churning out season after season
As much as I hate the Arte hyperbole, if this team doesn’t address its bullpen issues, it will have a very hard time competing.
Worst in MLB for blown saves and close to the bottom in rotation ERA. We need to revamp both for sure. Letting Bedrosian go was a great start.
You got that right, couldn’t stand seeing that guy come in
Look, he needs to pick a lane and stick to it. Hitter (my preferance) or pitcher, but not both.
A flat 96mph fastball won’t get past anyone in this league and his arm can’t take throwing the splitter or the slider. He’ll never be the pitcher he was expected to be
Except it’s not 96 it was over one hundred. And it was not flat and it wasn’t even his best pitch.
He didn’t deserve rookie of the year and will never be an mvp
He absolutely deserved ROY. He pitched 50 innings and was a better hitter than Andujar.
What’s amazing is Ohtani is a better pitcher than Babe Ruth ever was with the Yankees.
5toolMVP. Babe Ruth could stay heathy.
There’s something to be said for eating hot dogs and running around with loose women.
@James
Ruth didn’t really pitch for the Yankees, nearly ALL of Ruth’s pitching accomplishments were as a Red Sox player.
How cares given your comment about comparison to Ohtani…..just a stupid stupid stupid comment….go back to your pool chair!
What a stupid uninformed comment 5tool;
Babe Ruth’s lifetime record as a pitcher
94-46
He had a lifetime record of 94-46 and an ERA of 2.2770. His ERA is 16th best among all major league pitchers.
Ohtani couldn’t tie Babe’s pitching or hitting shoes pal!
@rocky what a stupid reply by you!!
I said as a *yankee pitcher*…Do you not know how to read?? Look at Babes stats as a pitcher for the yankees.
My original comment stands. If it was a bar bet you would’ve lost your rent check pal!
The good teams have good farm systems. You can’t fill every position with trades and free agents. The Angels have proved that.
Counting on Ohtani to be a front line pitcher all year is foolish. Hope is not a plan.
The Angels need some corner outfield help and relief pitching. He could do both and cycle through DH and not tax his body as hard.
The 70’s A’s had a guy named Blue Moon Odom who did something similar but not as well.
Spring training will tell them how to proceed with Ohtani as a pitcher.
It’s quite possible he can return to 2018 form and pitch/hit over a full season and full seasons going forward.
I never understood why anyone would sign him as a two player anyways. Did they really think he wasn’t going to break down? But I forgot who their owner is. Hs only goal is to knock the Dodgers off of the front page of the sports section..
You didn’t under why? Because he was a free agent and wanted to pitch and hit and would only sign with a team willing to let him try both.
It’s hard to imagine anyone not understanding that.
Nothing like a story on Ohtani to bring out the really pig-ignorant comments.
I like Ohtani.
Wonder if the Angels would try Ohtani in the pen? Definitely want to see him get a shot to crack the rotation again, but would love to see what he could do going all out for one inning.
I am not expecting too much out of Ohtani yet the talent definitely exists. I think he’ll maintain his two-way status though his physical condition will fluctuate throughout his career, Perhaps he will still put up above-average numbers & be a good, serviceable player but he may not be the dominant player we (including myself) wish him to be. If his health permits, I am predicting career stats: 140-160 HR, .270 BA, 45 wins/35 losses, and 3.8-4.2 ERA. Thoughts?