The Yankees and Pirates have engaged in conversations centering on Pittsburgh right-hander Jameson Taillon and first baseman Josh Bell, Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports. It’s unclear how serious the two sides are about making a deal, according to Mackey.
This would be a significant deal for both teams, as Taillon and Bell are among the most recognizable players on the Pirates’ roster. However, with the Pirates unlikely to contend in the immediate future, it could behoove the team to at least listen to offers for Taillon and Bell. Taillon has two years of arbitration control left, and he’s projected to earn a very affordable $2.3MM in 2021. Bell is also down to his second-last year of arb control, though he’s slated to rake in a more expensive salary ranging from $5.1MM to $7.2MM.
The 29-year-old Taillon has been a successful starter in Pittsburgh, where he has recorded a 3.67 ERA/3.55 FIP with 8.09 K/9 and 2.26 BB/9 across 466 innings, but injuries all but wiped out his previous two seasons. After throwing 37 frames in 2019, Taillon underwent Tommy John surgery that August. At last check (this past September), Taillon was coming along well in his rehab, so it seems he’ll make his return to a major league mound soon. A healthy Taillon would give the Yankees another proven starter alongside Gerrit Cole, his ex-Pirates teammate, as well as Luis Severino (who’s on the mend from his own TJ surgery).
It’s less clear where Bell would fit in New York, as the Yankees already have reigning MLB home run champion Luke Voit at first base. They also have Mike Ford in the mix as a lefty-hitting complement to the right-handed Voit, not to mention Giancarlo Stanton as their designated hitter. Bell, 28, was an All-Star for the Pirates two years ago, but his production plummeted during the shortened 2020 campaign.
Do it
You have to give value to get it. Look for a combo of Dominguez/Schmidt/Deivi Garcia. Nobody wants Frazier or Andujar.
First, don’t understand the comment about nobody wanting Frazier, but understand concerning Andujar who is a question mark at this time….there is no chance the Yankees trade Dominguez for either of these two guys and I don’t think the Yankees would also include both Schmidt and Garcia either….maybe one or the other but not both.
Missing the boat on Frazier who is cheap and can offer right handed pop with league average defense at 2 outfield positions…..you ever watch a Yankee game or just throwing something out there!
As a former Pirates fan and Pittsburgh resident, the Buccos don’t know how to value players so they will take an offer that prioritizes the number of players in the return vs getting good value.
Dang former? Who do you root for now? I don’t want to get to this point with my Mariners
I grew up in NY rooting for the Mets but have been in PGH for 15 years and decided to go back to the Mets a few seasons ago.
I’m in the same boat.
The pirates do not deserve fans.
I casually cheer for whoever I like come playoff time.
Haven’t watched a Pirates game since they dumped Cole and Cutch
..well actually I did watch Archers debut where he got rocked in the 1st inning.
Haha yeah, that’s about my level of “fandom” with the Buccos these days!
Nobody wants Frazier? Every team that called the Yankees has asked about Frazier.
As an Indian’s fan, I’d be glad to remove the burden of Clint Frazier from you organization. Hell, send me Andujar as well and I’ll figure it out. What do you want, a box of baseballs and some Subway coupons?
In all seriousness, WTF is wrong with some of these posters? “Nobody wants Frazier”? Nobody wants a 26 yr old corner OFer with a line of 267/394/511/905 with 8 HR in 131 AB? We’re talking 37 HR over the course of a full season(600 AB). Oh yeah, he plays decent defense too.
Although it may be a result of his concussions and thus fixable, Frazier’s defense has been awful. Main thing driving down his value.
No, Frazier’s defense has not always been awful. He was a Gold Glove finalist in 2020. You’re thinking of a very few opportunities in 2019 when he displayed some rookie jitters. That was an aberration https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/yankees-e2-80-99-clint-frazier-admits-he-was-surprised-by-gold-glove-nomination/ar-BB1bwN37
Just trying to understand…
The results garnered during regular playing time were clearly “abberation”, BUT, results of playing part time, in an abbreviated 2 month season, THOSE are a gold standard of which a full time, 162 game season in a non platoon role can be accurately projected for future performance?
Not to mention temper tantrum makeup questions?
Ok, I’d like to hear that one.
My take: yes, Frazier has value. No, he shouldn’t be the primary piece to a non-DH club since the track record is spotty.
You want him as one of multiple equal-value pieces going back? OK.
You want him as the MLB ready piece paired with a handful of additional prospects some high upside but low playing level, and a few more that project to be serviceable average performers close to MLB ready? Also ok.
But to think a frazier/andujar pkg or frazier and pair of lottery tickets get it done is laughable.
Frazier has more value to an AL club with DH opportunities at this point. Basing a trade off a glimpse in the 2020 abberation? Bad idea – and anyone other than Nutting would laugh at it.
“Although it may be a result of his concussions and thus fixable, Frazier’s defense has been awful. Main thing driving down his value.”
I guess you don’t follow the Yankees, Cosmo. Frazier was a finalist for a Gold Glove this year.
You don’t watch baseball if you think his defense is bad lmao
Do you even follow baseball? Zero chance of them trading Dominguez
Frazier has significant value at this point, but can’t see them trading him now. Schmidt would probably be involved, though idk what else. Have to think Voit either a part of the deal or subsequently getting dealt for pitching
Do you follow or even know anything about baseball? There is ZERO chance the Yankees trade Dominguez without a top tier young player in return, neither of which are mentioned in this article. And this is not coming from a Yankee fan.
Even better for the Yanks then. All hey have to do is bring LeMahieu, Paxton/or Tanaka back, try to steal Molina from the Cards, and they are good to go.
1.LeMahieu 2B
2.Torres SS
3.Judge RF
4.Bell 1B
5.Stanton DH
6.Andujar 3B
7.Hicks CF
8.Molina/Sanchez C
9.Frazier LF
1.Cole
2.Tanaka
3.Taillon
4.Garcia
5.German
6.Severino
Stanton can also play LF while Sanchez DH, and Molina goes behind the plate. I would still try to trade Frazier and Andujar for a SS. Correa would be good too. then they can just sign Brantley, Bradley Jr., Molina, LeMahieu, and Tanaka.
Better OF that way and extra insurance for the injured prone trio!
Then it can go as follow. Because the Yanks like Torres at 2B better anyways.
1.LeMahieu 3B
2.Judge RF
4.Bell 1B
5.
Sorry guys, I press enter by accident. Anyways.
1.LeMahieu 3B
2.Bell 1B
3.Judge RF
4.Stanton DH-LF
5.Brantley LF-DH
6.Correa SS
7.Torres 2B
8.Molina/Sánchez C
9.Bradley Jr./ or Hicks CF
This way, the Yanks will have plenty of options on how to play their line ups and player positions if they do acquire Bell, and sign those guys.
You spelled Urshela wrong.
You would think Voit would be going back as value
You want the Yankees to trade Jasson Dominguez for a rehabbing pitcher … AND throw in Deivi Garcia? In the immortal words of John McEnroe: “You cannot be serious!”
Clown comment, bro.
Lot of teams could use a .905 OPS.
Hmmm. Interesting.
Just talk. From NY’s perspective, perhaps it’s in case they can make another move like shipping off Voit for a healthy starter.
Perhaps Voit is part of package
Not sure why the Yankees would deal Voit (controllable for four more years) for Bell and Taillon (controllable for two years). I get it if they think those two would put them over the top, but they won’t.
They would only deal Voit if they believe the deal they make plus the domino effect deals that would follow would make them a better team than by keeping him. Like @FredMcGrif for the HOF said above, you have to trade quality to get quality.
While losing Voit would be tough, understand they may feel the need to include him in a trade for pitching and Bell, being a switch hitter with power offers balance to their lineup they can certainly use.
I’d imagine a package including one or more of Frazier, Andújar, Clarke Schmidt with be discussed in some shape or form.
Doubt Frazier would be in the deal.
If they want Bell it seems like Voit has to be on the way out.
Absolutely on voit
Agreed. Just wrote the same thing instead of first scrolling down.
Or bell is dead money and they are trying to get Taillon for cheap
Eh not sure. The Pirates ate in rebuild mode right now. In order for this to go through, it might have to have a good number of solid prospects included, being that these 2 players are big names in Pittsburgh
The Pirates have been in rebuild mode since like 1992, save for a couple of peak McCutchen seasons.
Then quit following them. Leave negative sh…..t at home!
Like the Pirates do!
They also take it on the road.
If not for negative sh…..t, as you so poetically put it, the Pirates would’ve had nothing to report on over the past few years. The Clint Hurdle era turned out to be a toxic dumpster fire.
Pittsburghers deserve better baseball than what they’ve witnessed over the past 30 years.
Go to another board !
The fall of the Pirates happened due to 5 key factors:
1. Dumb Cole trade
2. Dumb Archer trade
3. Taillon injuries
4. Vazquez arrested for pedo
5. Keeping Searage too long
Nutting/Huntington
Big names with 2 lost seasons to injury and most of 2 years lost to being bad
Just because they are big names doesn’t mean they have good value. It’s likely about $$
Big names that’s all. But no big numbers to back them up both big promises but thats it.
Do the Yankees have any other players in their entire organization other than Frazier & Andujar available? I’m asking for a friend who believes the shine wears off on prospects over time.
yeah…they do
Frazier and Andujar aren’t prospects. They are proven MLB players. You may argue how good they are but they’re not prospects.
Andujar has proven he can’t play.. the end..
Frazier has proven he’s better than most, but not quite good enough to supplant Gardenhire?.. imho,, Frazier is a good player..but not a league leader… not a gold glover.. not a lot things.. but clearly a player most team could find a place for and or be a much more highly regarded player if he wasn’t stuck between a Judge, a Giancarlo or a Hicks.. these guys have enormous bank.. and they’re going to play..
Stanton– dH; Hicks–CF; Judge–RF; Frazier–LF. Not stuck. What is a Gardenhire?
Andujar has proven he can’t play? I guess just like Frazier proved he couldn’t play either.
Former manager of the Tigers?
I think the Pirates are willing to listen to offers on a lot of players. What stood out to me more than Bell was Taillon. Yes he is good when he is healthy but do they want to take a chance on that. I feel they should go for Musgrove instead. Wouldn’t be shocked if they looked into Frazier either depending if they bring LeMahieu back.
Adam Frazier would make more sense than Bell.
Musgrove is a solid major league starter.
Taillon, while injury prone, has Clayton Kershaw stuff if he works out.
I’d love to see Cole and Taillon teamed up again.. always felt robbed of that due to bad GM and injuries
Why do people insist on using hall of famers as comps? Just stop
Because Taillon was drafted higher than Kershaw in their perspective drafts.
Would it be a crime to compare Gerrit Cole to Roger Clemens etc?
people were comparing Kersh to guys whom he has now surpassed
Tallion’s best season is still markedly worse than Kershaw’s worst season (excluding Kershaw’s rookie year). Personally, I do not think the comparison is remotely apt. Tallion is nice with a decently high ceiling. Kershaw is one of the best pitchers of his generation and has an argument as *the* best.
To put it a different way: Tallion will be 28 this year and we’re still talking about his potential. By 28, Kershaw had won three Cy Youngs and an MVP.
Taillon had cancer and Tommy john.
He’d absolutely be somewhere between former teammates Tyler Glasnow and Gerrit Cole in skill had his career not been marred by circumstance.
Ley alone that all I said was he has Kershaw stuff.
Didnt say he posessed the many other factors that go into pitching at the ML level.
Stuff usually refers to velocity and ball spin.
@redsfan20191- Yes, I definitely agree the Yankees should trade for Musgrove instead of Taillon. Luke Voit could be on his way out as part of a package for Francisco Lindor if Josh Bell is coming back in a trade with the Bucs.
Is Bell a target so that they can use Voit in another deal?
Bell is a part of the deep state, nobody wants him!
Username/comment synergy.
After one bad year? I don’t know that I would say that. He’s a solid player when there’s fans in the stands.
Hard to imagine the Yankees acquiring Josh Bell and holding on to Luke Voit. Neither plays another position and they aren’t trading the untradeable Giancarlo Stanton. Voit’s trade value is at an all time high and Bell’s is at a low point. Andujar, Schmidt, and Frazier could get the job done.
There’s no way in hell the Yankees give Frazier AND Schmidt in this deal. It’d be one of them. The public perception of josh bell and the value of josh bell to a club are wildly different. 2 years of bell and 2 of taillon are worth schmidt OR Frazier and maybe something else
“The public perception of josh bell and the value of josh bell to a club are wildly different. ”
Sad but oh so true. Bell had two incredible months two years ago and has been almost comically inept ever since. Taillon has to be one of the unluckiest pitchers ever with his injury history but the fact that we’re still talking “potential” about a pitcher who will be 30 years old on his next birthday speaks volumes. Get what you can and move on…
Upon further review that would be an overpay. How about Mike King in the package instead of Clarke Schmidt.
Maybe Voit is a part of this deal.
Kudos for Connor for this incredible burn on Pittsburgh:
“Taillon and Bell are among the most recognizable players on the Pirates’ roster”
They need some ointment after that burn
I don’t think Ford is going to stand in the way – I see Bell/Voit as an amazing platoon with each getting some time at DH to let Stanton rest – maybe send Ford back in the trade package
There’s no chance they just add Bell to the mix. Voit and Giancarlo are both full time AB’s. 3 guys for 2 positions. I don’t see this happening without Voit being on the move.
Nobody needs a rest from DHing. You literally take the field for 3-4 ABs and then sit. Get Stanton to play more OF, and maybe this will work, but that blocks up Frazier. I don’t see this panning out
I would see Voit either being in this deal or else lined up for a different one.
Andujar could platoon with Bell at 1b. They need to find a slot for him to get some ABs.
It must be brutal to be a Pirates fan!.
It’s probably easier if they think of themselves as a AAA team, showcasing the stars of tomorrow for other, better teams.
Exactly….how do fans connect with the team, great city, great history but nowadays, why bother!,
Us Pirates fans have managed to not get addicted to winning. We’re kind of numb to the whole thing.
Or Bluejay !
Remind us of all the rings the Jays have won in recent years?
Remind us the last time Pitt was relevant past the 2nd round of the playoffs?
Remind us why that’s a burn? Problem is simpletons like yourself think a successful season is only if you win. By that logic there’s 29 losers every year and by that logic as long as you win once every 30 years it’s fine.
Happily you’ll never ever know. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
The Bell part of this is nonsense, where’s he going to play!
New York?
Not what he/she meant
Yankee Stadium?
When Judge gets hurt or when Stanton gets hurt or when Voit gets hurt!
Bell? Do the Yankees really need another 1B/DH?
Not really, but they could really use a lefty bat and Bell is a better Lefty hitter than righty. In a vacuum, I can sort of see the logic.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me where Lamahieu is going to play since Torres CANNOT play short
Lol.. Stop It!
In Toronto?
*Buffalo
yes, yes he can
They want to sell high on voit
Voit getting moved to Brewers for Hader
Bell & Taillon for Montgomery, Florial, Cessa & Clarke Schmidt
I love this, but don’t know that Taillon has the same upside as Montgomery. Especially after TJ. Not that Montgomery is a potential ace, but a solid 4-5 guy. This would be very interesting though. Adding Hader to that bullpen is scary.
Still no place for Lamahieu. They need a SHORTSTOP not 2 second basemen & now 2 first basemen. Unbelievable!
Definitely think Hader for Voit is fair for both sides, but Vogelbach was mashing when he went to the Brewers, they might rather use him at 1B everyday instead and see what else they can get for Hader.
Think that Yankees package is real light, replace Montgomery and Cessa with Peraza and Gil and you have something is closer to both-sides fair value, in my opinion.
Voit does not get Hader back in return; not even close. While Voit has been very good, power-hitting 1B are a dime a dozen in MLB and playing in Yankee Stadium has inflated Voit’s stats. Power-left handed bullpen arms that can go multiple innings, close games and pitch 100 innings + per year are unicorns. It will take a lot more than Voit for NY to get Hader from the Brewers.
Yeah, I wish Voit/Hader was a thing. I’m sure Hader’s new and only barber would have already been consulted about the maximum possible length hair while still in compliance with Pinstripe standards.
With the Yankees ducking out of FA like they are and news surfacing about Lindor being aggressively shopped, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Voit flipped to Cleveland or some such in a package for Lindor. Of course it would be Voit, Frazier, Garcia (or Schmidt), and two other prospects or so (NOT Dominguez-Lindor isn’t worth it and he’s not going).
This is, of course, but one possibility of many.
I’m pretty sure the Pirates would laugh at that offer.
Does any team need new ownership more than the Pirates? Great, historical franchise with arguably the best ballpark on the planet built near downtown of a city with a long history of championship sports, and they’re just routinely finding ways to be cheap and terrible. Goodness.
Daaaam right. Unfortunately, the owner has no plans of leaving. Its torture.
Great avatar.
I trust in Ben Cherington. Really seems to know what direction this team is heading in and from the looks of it, it looks like a good direction. I don’t really know what they could get back from Bell. So inconsistent. Showed decent power in his rookie season, power faded in his sophmore year, but his plate discipline looked fantastic and then there’s 2019. He had that MVP-caliber first half, sucked in June and July, and picked it back up for August and September. Last year, awful first 30 games, pretty solid last 30 games. Honestly, people look to much down on this franchise simpily because of cheap ownership. While Bob Nutting isn’t a good owner of a baseball club, I will give him credit for completley tearing down the front office and coaching staff last off season and his hiring of Cherington. When you look deeper into it, Cherington has brought in a handful of very good pieces. He got back Liover Peguero, who ranks as a top 100 prospect on FanGraphs and 2019 first round pick Brennan Malone back for Starling Marte. That’s definitley not the pieces Huntington would have gotten back. Like 3 or 4 of the Pirates draft picks from this past draft rank as the Pirates’ top 30 on FanGraphs. That’s not bad given he’s only been the Pirates’ GM for just over a year now. This isn’t going to be like the last time under Neal Huntington. Cherington knows how to build a winner.
Ben Cherington was all over the road in Boston. Rusney Castillo, Pablo Sandoval & Hanley Ramirez are forgettable, but signing Devers and acquiring Rodriguez are solid moves (drafting Benintendi, too). A 2013 Series win, helped by Epstein’s tenure, but a 2018 Series win greatly assisted by Cherington’s time as GM. Three last place finishes in four years – all over the road.
Every GM has some signings they would probably like to forget, but he was able to win a ring for Boston. Don’t forget he also got them Bogarets. He helped develop a very talented young core in Toronto too. He drafted Nate Pearson and was there for most of the development of Cavan Biggio, Nate Pearson, Bo Bichette, acquired Teoscar Hernandez and got a great return for Marcus Stroman. I like his track record and he definitley can build a squad from within.
Cherington should not be credited for Pearson or the rest of the players you mentioned. That is total crap and simply not true.
The problem with Cherington is severalfold:
1) he does not get credit for all that drafting and international FA acquisition you speak of… there remains a braintrust that assembled under theo, and, remains to some extent with the current gm and other agms who were Co managing the team during the search.
2) cherington during his time as gm arranging trades was calling sharing-ton by some for his propensity to give up too much and not get anything of value back. He could salary dump with the best of them. The only piece he got back that had any success was arod, who, had tons of injury issues and knee problems his whole tenure. His pitching trades were nightmares, especially bullpen… at the time it was a so-so trade, miller was a MLB best reliever.
3) he (in)famously bungled locking up team stars that led to hands being forced in trades
4) he had serious issues finding team balance. He had a pitching heavy club with a young light offense he (in)famously blew up, including giving lackey and his remaining mlb-minimum option away for squat. What he built was a no-pitching club that could mash but swung the opposite extreme.
I rate cherington an ‘ok’ gm BUT only with a strong and GOOD and talented prez of bball ops over him. On his own…. well… sorry folks.
taillon isnt going anywhere. if so the pirates org is worse then I thought. they would be selling at the very bottom of low on him. makes Zero sense
Not one person is going to mention the fact that Stanton can’t stay healthy? Counting on Stanton to DH 162 games is silly. Bell is a Mike Ford upgrade. This the Yankees for crying out loud! There is no such thing as too many power bats.
I hope the Pirates keep Taillon and Bell and trade Musgrove to the Yankees for Michael King and Miguel Andujar.
The Yankees need to stop anymore activity with the Pirates all together. They cost the Yankees a WS dealing Cole to Houston instead. Screw the Pirates make a move with someone else
Lol yeah that’s how you win a WS again. Whaaaa about a trade years ago and never trade with that team.
Yankees could’ve offered a better package for cole. Houston ponied up.
Don’t blame the seller for taking an offer they liked better. Blame the buyer for being cheap.
Obviously Bell would be a good addition to the Yankees, but where does he play? Who gets moved? They say too much talent is never a bad thing, but it can be when you can allocate resources to acquire a position you don’t exactly need verse getting what you do need.
Taillon would be a good pickup for the Yankees. However, I’m really confused as to why they want Bell because he is a 1b/dh and the Yankees already have better options at those positions in Voit, Stanton, Judge, and Andujar.
Hal is being notoriously cheap in a way dad never wouldve.
Media interviews suggest a budget of 25-35m to fix the rotation and infield this offseason, including resigning guys like DJL.
You need to ask who could you give up, and as many say, voit is both sell high and easily replaced as a 1b/dh.
Best cashman can do is muster what trade chips he can, and go from there.
My guess is the ONLY reason NY hasn’t begun targeting make-good and injury recovering SP is that if DJL costs too much they will dip a toe in the higher end SP market.
Hal might not spend as much as George but George screwed up as often as he did good. George traded away some great players for aging vets that did not play well for the Yankees. Stick Michael had to lie to George about other teams interest in players to keep George from trading them. Go look up some of the boneheaded moves he made.
As far as DJ goes, the supposed hold upis years, not money.
The Pirates would be better off waiting for the 2021 trade deadline in the hopes that Bell and Taillon are healthy and producing. Right now, they’d obviously be selling way too low and wouldn’t get as much value now as they could later.
Voit has proven himself. And he’s a gamer. He played Injured most of the season. I don’t see them trading him for another first basemen when they finally got one who is solid for sure. Sure his defense is bad. But he can rake
I believe Bell is a switch hitter so it would be attractive getting more lefty at-bats in the lineup. Voit would go to the Indians for Lindor. Of course, there would be extra pieces in this.
I’m not sure Cleveland would want Voit. He’s already into his arbitration years and he’s going to be too expensive for Cleveland within 2 years (max). If Cleveland trades Lindor to NY, it’s going to be for young, pre-arbitration players or lower priced year 1 arbitration players like Frazier. Lindor would probably cost NY Frazier, Schmidt and one more young piece.
The other thing to keep in mind is if what we hear out of NY is true (they want to stay below the CBT) then there’s no chance of them dealing for Lindor as his $20M salary would put them over the CBT unless they let DJL walk and don’t spend more than $8-$10M on the rest of their roster.
Fair points but I thought they had much more coming off the books. Tanaka won’t get $20 mil. Elisbury is gone, Paxton is gone. Gardner is not getting $10 mil. Happ with his $17 mil is gone. I know there will be arbitration raises but perhaps I’m missing something.
Their payroll was close to $270M last year, plus they have 12-13 arbitration eligible players who will all get raises, some big ones in there too (like Judge). I believe I read that after the arbitration salaries are settled, the Yankees project to be right around $180-$185M in payroll. That does not include re-signing DJL. So they have about $25-$30M left before they get to the CBT threshold.
“Frazier, Schmidt and one more young piece” for one year of Lindor. I wouldn’t do that deal. No way. Pass. Look for a different shortstop (not Simmons).
Look what Boston got for Mookie and they made LA take half of Price’s salary too. They got Verdugo (who is better than Frazier), a Top 5 prospect in Downs (Schmidt) plus a decent catching prospect in Connor Wong, while also offloading $16M of Price’s salary. So Frazier, Schmidt and another piece sure seems reasonable for one year of Lindor. Sub Gil in for Schmidt if you prefer, but that would probably be the type of package Cleveland is looking for.
Cleveland doesn’t need pitching talent.. that’s no Schmidt.. no Little Deivi.. no g/F beater.. none of those guys.. . Your proposed deal with Schmidt.. would be summarily dismissed..
First, credit to the Yankees for looking to go all out and make a big statement to win.
Sounds like Voit might be used for another trade, potentially for Lindor in a package.
Blue Jays should have been all over Taillon and Musgrove since the second the Dodgers won the World Series.
I wonder if Pittsburg is pushing Bell on New York. “If you want Taillon, you need to take Josh Bell too”. There’s no other reason for NY to take on Bell as Voit has more than earned a full time spot at 1B and will be cheaper than Bell this year too. Voit could possibly be going back to Pittsburg as part of the deal. That’s the only way NY adding Bell makes any sense.
Bell is arbitration eligible, which means the Pirates had the option to just release him.
“Dorothy” you seem pretty bright & knowledgeable, you care to take a stab at what to me is the elephant in the room that everyone refuses to acknowledge. If the Yanks re-sign LeMahieu where’s he fit?
I think that’s pretty obvious. They would play DJ at second and Torres at SS, just like last year. It’s not a great plan but there it is.
Torres is as bad at short -if not worse -as Sánchez is behind the plate. It didn’t work last year & it won’t work this year. It’s a HUGE mistake, period.
I agree that would be their plan (Torres @ SS, DJL @ 2B), unless they move Voit and don’t trade for Bell. Then DJL can play 1st, Torres goes back to 2B and they bring in a new SS.
Nevertheless, it seems to be a mistake they are thinking about repeating.
Thanks for your input gentlemen. I think in a perfect world you put DJM at third, trade for Lindor or Story & try to move Gio -which I don’t even think can be done at the moment because of the surgery. – I know this is not realistic but a boy can dream can’t he.
Voit is much cheaper and with more years of control, he might be a piece going back to Pittsburgh.
i imagine It’d Be andujar , Voit , Clarke , Florial , and probably like Tyler wade or somthing lol i can’t really see frazier but it’s possible
It doesn’t make any sense for the Yankees to trade Voit and Clarke(and others) for Bell and Taillon. Taillon is a solid pitcher, but he is coming off an injury and it is impossible to know how he will recover. Bell is a bad defensive first baseman who has only hit well in 2019. The Yankees are better off keeping Voit and Clarke than trading them for two worse options.
Schmidt, Peraza, Gil & Florial for Taillon, Bell and Reynolds
Voit and Frazier for Hader and Urias
Both trade fair value for both sides
Yankees gettin’ f’n bomboozled in that 2nd trade, holy crap.
Giving up both Schmidt & Gil seems steep to me.
As for the MIL trade, I’m not sure MIL is looking for 2 below average defenders for a premium reliever and a cheap, young IF like Urias. They are going to give Urias another year to see if he can increase his value. Hader only moves for a kings ransom and Voit & Frazier is not it.
Don’t be a hader.
I can’t recall ever seeing a trade where the in-balance between 40 man roster players exceeded one. A 5 for 2 just doesn’t happen– one team would have to DFA three roster players.
@Gasu1 – The Padres traded 6 players to the Indians in exchange for three players this past season. It’s not very common for these types of deals to happen, but they do happen.
It’s even more rare to occur just before the rule 5 draft when everyone just stuffed their rosters though
Hey guys the Pirates have Hayes at 3rd so Andujar wouldn’t make sense in return unless he’s going to play first, not to mention the Pirates let Osuna walk and outrighted Craig to AAA
What would be a reasonably fair offer the Yankees could send the Pirates for both Taillon & Bell? You’d have to believe that Clint Frazier would be apart of any deal, Devi Garcia, Jesse Dominguez, but who else? Andujar???
I would think (2) young pitchers like Gil & Vizciano, along with Florial would be a pretty tempting offer for Pittsburg. They might have to add one more piece too. While Taillon is a proven MLB pitcher, he is coming off a major injury so his value isn’t as high as it would be.
Yankees totally dumpster diving for a pitcher who hasn’t pitched significantly or well since 2018 and a 1B who has one decent year (2019) in five behind him. Yuck! My respect for Cashman is diving over this.
Ducky, you should be happy! Taillon is a great pitcher when healthy though he has the most unexpected injuries it’s kinda sad. As for Bell, I imagine he’d pop off in NY feasting on that Yankee Stadium right field.
Really good news for Pirates fans too (looking at you mlb1225), the Yanks have their great prospects like Dominguez, Garcia, Schmidt, then the good ones like Wells, Florial, Gil, and Peraza, and then it just falls into higher upside guys. So the Pirates would get their pick of those top 7 (maybe not Dominguez though). I’d be happy if I were you.
@Rangers29
From a commenter called Low_Heat2B above:
“Bell had two incredible months two years ago and has been almost comically inept ever since. Taillon has to be one of the unluckiest pitchers ever with his injury history but the fact that we’re still talking “potential” about a pitcher who will be 30 years old on his next birthday speaks volumes. Get what you can and move on…”
As a NYY fan, I hope these talks go nowhere.
Fair. Taillon is one of the best starters in the game when he’s on the mound, but I can see how you’d be mad giving up prospects for somebody on the mound 1/5 of the time.
As for Bell, I actually don’t have much hope for him, though he really seems like a Dodgers bounce-back guy for me. But if he got rolling, Yankee Stadium would be his domain.
It’s not that Taillon plays 1/5 of the time that bothers me, it’s that he hasn’t pitched well since 2018! Who knows if he will pitch well ever again? Why are the NYY, of all teams, engaging in risky reclamation projects? Haven’t they had enough injuries the past two years?
I’m not sure it’s as risky as you made it sound…
MLB players coming back from cancer have generally performed well.
MLB players coming back from TJ have generally performed well these days, it’s not what it was when the 2nd guy got it done.
It’s not like the guy had the thoracic outlet procedure that is typically a death knell to MLB careers
Tired of the Yankees not going after proven commodities. Stop dumpster diving.
It makes sense if they are truly looking to stay below the CBT this year. They can’t re-sign DJL and add a high cost FA pitcher, or trade for one with a big salary.
I get your point, Dorothy, but the Yankees have been slaughtered by injuries the last two years. I cannot for the life of me understand why they would want to entertain someone who has just spent the bulk of those same two years injured. It absolutely mystifies me. All I can do is smack my head.
Voit would almost certainly be part of the deal along with at least 2 or 3 more players going back to Pittsburgh
Lets not get carried away here, the 2 Pitt players, one coming off TJ who is a question mark with what you get back and when, and Bell who is interesting but who is he the 2018 player or the 2019 player…….I’ve said it before…the days of the Yankees sending 4 players for 2 are over unless one of them is named Trout!
If Voit is part of this potential trade, maybe 2 other minor guys going with him…one higher minors than the other but that’s the only way this is going to happen.
Frankly, the Yankees don’t have good history with the Pirates as far as potential trades….the Pirates are always too interested in “winning the trade” to make anything work.
they are too interested in ‘winning the trade’ ? really? that’s funny because from what I see, they’re always losing them. lol
For a pitcher who hasn’t pitched well since 2018 and has been injured since and a 1B who has had two good months (two years ago) in his entire five year career?
Let’s just hope these talks go nowhere.
Yeh, Mo…thats what I thought too! And these commenters always accuse Yankee fans of over valuing our players….
Exactly. The undervaluation of NYY players and prospects in this thread given who Taillon and Bell actually are today (not who they were years ago) is simply jaw-dropping.
Facts…. Bell has had more than two good months. JT had a 3.80 fip in 2019. Career 3.55 FIP.
And it’s not like these are ellsbury level injuries. These are the types of things that, once resolved, you normally wind up back where you were after playing a couple months.
Is Mike Ford really better than Greg Bird?
A working Ford is better than a dead Bird.
Yes for the basic fact the guy doesn’t get hurt getting out of bed
Maybe the Yankees acquire Bell and flip him to the Indians in a package for Lindor? Yankees could send a SS like Josh Smith, an outfielder & a pitcher with Bell. The Yankees have a few guys in their top 30 prospects that will be blocked from getting to the majors. I wouldn’t give up any of their top 15 guys.
More likely they’d flip Voit somewhere – I would say with some prospects to the Indians for Plesac. Suddenly Cole/Taillon/Severino/Plesac/Montgomery is looking like a pretty good rotation, and they could stay under the luxury tax threshold.
Please costs stratosphere’s above voit…
Unless the ‘couple prospects’ are at least 1 of the organization top 3, and, an additional top 10 and top 20 or prospect along with him….
This is absolutely disgusting. The Pirates are literally going to take their only recognizable players and just deal them away when they’re not even breaking $10M each? I’m sorry, but this is a case where the commissioner needs to step in and stop the Pirates from being *this* bad; veto the trades and mandate ownership do something positive. Put them on probation where they have to show that some percentage of their operating budget is going to on-field personnel.
Oh wait, the MLB Commissioner answers to the owners, who refuse to open their books to the MLBPA (or the public) and who constantly claim poor.
But seriously, I have hit the point where I think MLB needs a salary floor more than a salary cap and that floor needs to be set so that teams actually pay on-field personnel.
No doubt it needs a salary floor. However, it will never happen, unfortunately.
Taillon has a lot of upside so I get that. Bell? He’d be a downgrade and have no position. The only way he’d make sense is if the team flips Voit someplace else. Maybe to Colorado for German Marquez?
Every halfway decent Pirate will be a Yankee one day.
If the pirates can get Voit,Frazier,Florial and Deivi Garcia for Bell and Taillon, Go Bucs.
Lol they wouldn’t get that package
Jameson Taillon is the target. I think Luke Voit is better than Josh Bell. Acquiring Josh Bell makes no sense. Bell has no versatility and is roughly the same age and minus defender Voit is. Voit lost allot of weight last off-season showing me he’s committed.
You go after Bell to replace Voit because:
-Voit is at peak value so maybe now is a good time to cash him out
-Bell is lefty stick which NY really needs.
Not saying it’s gonna happen, but if NYY is looking at Bell I can see why.
You don’t replace the guy whose third on your team in wOBA, wRC+ and OPS since 2018 (minimum 800 PA) and second in AVG with a guy (Bell) whose fWAR over the same period is 2.4 lower (and Bell had 514 more plate appearances).
Since 2018, Voit ranks 10th in the majors, all positions, in wRC+, right below Freddie Freeman and Aaron Judge, and right above J.D. Martinez and Justin Turner.
The only first baseman with a higher wRC+ in that time span — by one point — is Freddie Freeman.
I get the feeling that there’s a general undervaluation of Luke Voit in this comments thread.
I would think these talks don’t make it far. Bell was way down last year so his value is probably at an all time low and same with Taillon being hurt the last two seasons. Yankees would have to overpay somewhere between what they have been and what they could be. It would be a game for NY and a very dangerous trade for the Pirates. I’ve read Taillon has changed his mechanics and is healthy but who knows. Hope he comes back strong. Would be interesting to see how they would handle a Severino/Taillon both being in the rotation and on innings limits. Maybe piggybacking them on the same night?
Maybe one of NY’s top 5 prospects not named Garcia or Dominguez. Plus another 3-4 low level guys.
A ton of ignorant comments here regarding the Pirates trade history, Yes, the Cole and Archer trades were terrible, but stop blaming the current Pirates front office for the previous front office’s mistakes. Ben Cherington is not Neal Huntington. Any “Bob Nutting is pulling the strings” comments are completely invalid and short sighted. Cherington has a track record of building an organization,. He has his fingerprints all over 2 World Series championships and was a part of building the Blue Jays system into what it is today.
This is an intriguing deal that warrants all this discussion, but Pirates are looking for impact in 2022-23. Frazier and Andujar will either be earning high arb dollars or looking for large 1st contracts. The focus will be on younger prospects.
The targets will most likely be some combination of Wells (desperate need for catching), Vizcaino, Florian, Gomez, Medina etc. Doubt the Yankees will even entertain talks on Dominguez.
I don’t like it. Taillon is always injured and Bell’s good season seems to have been a fluke. The yankees would have to give up too much for these high risk players
This is exactly the type of deal that has consistently failed the genius for nearly 20 years now…..Taillon is no needle mover and likely a lower upside version of paxton. This team needs a bona fide #2 pitcher and possible 2 of em. Plus a defensive minded SS.
This move would do nothing more than ensure being a bridesmaid for same damn reason as always. Teams that get to the WS and win em have 3 stud SPs. The Yanks have one. hence one WS appearance since the core 4 ended.
We need a new GM not another injury prone #3/4 SP
I think that Bronx don’t need Bell…
Another righty bat? They need some balance.
Genuinely don’t understand yankee fans wanting to get rid of voit, the man since he’s been with the Yankees has proven he can hit. 19 he was on a tear until he injured his midsection. Tried to come back too early and it was obvious at the end of 19 it was bothering him. Recovers and become a damn near mvp this year, granted cut short by covid. We haven’t had a decent 1b since Tex’s earlier days when he didn’t change his swing to compensate the contract we gave him (sacrificing avg for power, from what I remember when he was with TX and ATL has high avg plus hr/rbis, 09’ was the last time the guy hit anything close to .270 (.292 in 09’)). Voit has proven he can play and proven he can play in the Bronx. Not a whole lot of people can do that and y’all are banking on Bell to come in and not succumb to the fan base if he struggles? I think we forgot about Bird and how lucky we are to have voit. Seriously the only thing bell has is he’s a switch hitter, voits proven to be better the last year and a half. taillon on the other hand id rather have for a lottery type prospect or 2. He’s def got potential but idk how teams give up multiple top prospects for him. Didn’t pitch at all this year and only 7 g last season. You can argue his arm doesn’t have as much mileage and Pittsburg pitchers have proven for the most part to be better when they leave. But those other pitchers that were traded weren’t injured at the time (cole and Glasnow maybe throw Morton in there too). And I feel like Frazier deserves his shot to be an everyday OF with the yanks. The kid can hit, had maturity issues earlier on and for the most part seems like he matured. Idk what y’all are on but he had a severe concussion. Playing OF is probably the worst because a majority of putouts will more than likely be pop outs. Isn’t light an issue for concussed people? So not ceiling lights but stadium lights and tracking down a ball. I feel like y’all are taking for granted the amount of work it takes to not only get back to normal but to play at a gold glove level. All the while the dude was hitting. Give him a full season at the big league level and I bet he’ll produce very good, gold glove for an entire year? Idk but it’s definitely possible with the way he’s turned it around though to reach that or to be respectable at least.
Dominguez or no go. Drop in Gomez who may take over after Stallings control is coming to an end OR Way who is probably a future pen arm as the headline. IMO Dominguez is a top 10 prospect by the time he gets to AA so to make it happen probably some other factors in there too.
Would be near the time line too.
Neal went quantity over quality. Ben seems like he is the other way around.
I find it hard to believe the yankee’s are THAT interested though after the injury and the down half season on Bell, but for both with the cost/control you don’t let that go unless its a great return.
If the Bucs some how make the dream world reality then they need to sell everyone but hayes and stallings pretty much.
No way are the Yankees trading Jasson Dominguez.
I agree it is highly unlikely but would be closer to a 1 for two type of trade. If Bell in 2020 looked like Bell 2019 and Taillon didn’t have a 2nd Tommy John then it would be much more likely since they Yankees can buy players instead of relying on prospects.
Dominguez is the best player that more fits a timeline. He’s still rather far out who knows what happens between now and then. Pirates need to take those types of “risks” to compete (though its much more sure than most). Them Yankees don’t need too.
I wouldn’t be too upset if it was some package including a few of, Alcantara, Green, Breaux, Way, Medina… But that would be more of a Neal deal quantity over quality where Ben is quality over quantity.
If the Yankees want to acquire Bell to replace Mike Ford, by all means do it (for the right price). If the idea is to replace Voit with Bell, I don’t see the point.
Bell has a career 116 OPS+.
Voit’s career OPS+ is 136.
In 2,191 PA, Bell has a 2.4 bWAR.
In 1,029 PA, Voit has a 4.5 bWAR.
What am I missing here?
Person I’ll answer this along with another comment regarding the downplaying of Voit….
I agree with you that Bell is not an upgrade over Voit. But Voit is the chip to either acquire another pitcher or Lindor, or another player to fill a void in the infield. Yanks can’t deal Torres, can’t deal Sanchez, can’t deal Stanton and can’t deal Hicks. That leaves Frazier, Judge and Voit, and we know the Yankees are not dealing Judge.
That is the best answer I can provide for you. Yankees probably have to look at a SS to move Torres back to 2B and reluctantly say goodbye to DJ Lemahieu.
If the Yankees move Luke then it could be all indication would be having signed DJ of which then the Yankees can either go after Simmons, Didi, etc at Shortstop or they go after Lindor offering up Frazier, Schmidt and adding more to the package. but Cleveland will not get a big package like they might expect either think more in line like the offer that Boston rcvd from the Dodgers for Mookie Betts.
Let’s remember Lindor is a 1 year rental and if Cleveland wants to get anything to salvage losing him for nothing the best time to trade him is now and not wait until the season begins.
As for the Yankees no way they will give Dominguez this kid is a beast will it translate to the Major Level no one knows but they are not going to include him at all in any package and less Garcia as well.
Luke’s sky is high right now and why not see what you can get for him now or they can use Luke in a trade with Indians with Frazier for Lindor included and then the Yankees signing Kyle or bringing back Gardner.
I would prefer the Yankees go after Lindor & Joc Pederson save the money on DJ as he will be 33 years old and even though he has been amazing with the Yankees it will be another aging player commanding high dollars handcuffing the Yankees when all is said and done.
Bringing Lindor gives the Yankees a Switch hitter that plays a Premium position and can run and with Joc someone that is needed as CF insurance and OF insurance for the Yankees Paper Thin Outfielders.
Let’s put it on the table.. Trade Judge and get an attractive return. The guy is always hurt and it won’t change for the rest of his career