Good chat but I disagree respectfully with the Upton/ Heyward theoretical –
Upton comes with a 33% less shelf life – I think that sells that trade easily, regardless of the on-field numbers.
Not that this is a trade that has much / if any legs ever, but we are getting to a time when sadly finances are going to mean much more than on-field performances on some trades and the villagers must be forewarned
And I have to respectfully disagree with you. The difference in money is only $14M. Heyward (144 DRS) is infinitely better with the glove than Upton (-13) for their careers in the OF. Heyward’s last 2 seasons with the bat (106 OPS+) have been better than Upton’s (91 OPS+). If I were the Cubs, as much as I would like to move Heyward’s contract, I wouldn’t make that trade.
Fair enough, but I dont need DRS numbers to know I want out at the end of 22 not 23 regardless of the player, that was my point- I have no faith in either to rebound and purely view them as sunk costs moving forward
I can see your point, but I still don’t think, when it comes down to just the contracts, the savings are worth taking on an older and lesser player for someone with apparently more upside.
Given the choice, I think most teams would opt for Heyward over Upton, for the very affordable price of $14M for one year.
re: haul for Castillo of Reds—If CIN was smart, should be huge. Not sure how much control team has but guy is crazy good, best changeup in a rotation and stuff besides to make it work. If he was big market, would already be household name. Two team top 5’s, two mlb top 20’s.
Not only is Castillo “crazy good”, he is dirt cheap. Although he will get paid when he reaches arb in 2021. But he’s not a FA until 2024. Cincy absolutely should not trade him unless it’s an absolute haul.
They absolutely deserve a big haul for him but two top 20 prospects is way too much. Sale netted a #1, Snell netted 1 top 20 and those guys have Cy Young’s. I think 1 top 20 and another top 100 is fair.
The return on Sale isn’t really comparable. He was making over $9M, had just 2 seasons before free agency, and was owed almost $25M for those 2 years.
Snell is more like Sale than Castillo. He and Castillo aren’t set to hit free-agency until 2024, but Snell is set to make over $40M in the next 3 years. Castillo is still making the league minimum, He will get a good raise with arb, but his price is still below that of Snell.
But for the Reds, it isn’t about what the return was for those other guys, it’s why would they trade him unless it was for a big return?
Castillo is really more comparable to Jose Ramirez even though Ramirez isn’t a pitcher. There’s no reason for Cleveland to trade Ramirez unless they were completely overwhelmed, because he’s the perfect player for them; good and cheap. Just like Castillo.
IMO, whoever wants Castillo will also needs to take one of the Reds’ bigger contracts…like Suarez. I could see LA (re)packaging Josiah Gray as part of that deal. It would take care of the Dodgers 3rd base challenge for a few years at a reasonable annual price and it would add a solid #3 or 4 starter to their rotation.
With Kim and Cron being natural SS, I can see Tatis seeing more OF than the two of them. Tatis is uber athletic and only 22. He can learn the OF easier than they can
I’m not ready to hand the reigns to Kim. KBO is equivalent to AA. Aaron Altherr couldn’t stay on a big league roster but goes to KBO and hits 31 home runs.
While perusing the internet this evening, I came across a handful of signings that have yet to be written about on MLBTR.
Aaron Wilkerson to the Rakuten Monkeys (NPB)
Joe Biagini to the Cubs
Joe Harvey re-signs with the Rockies
Lucas Luetge to the Yankees
Randy Rosario to the Chunichi Dragons (NPB)
Sean Kazmar Jr. re-signs with the Braves
Tim Dillard re-signs with the Rangers
Zac Rosscup re-signs with the Rockies
Luis Garcia (former Phillies RP) to the Yankees
Matt Reynolds (former Mets SS) to the White Sox
Rob Brantly re-signs with the Yankees
Trevor Kelley to the Cubs
Ryan LaMarre to the Yankees
Things are a little different now than they were in Cobb’s day. Today he would be bounced out of baseball and banned for life.
If you’re not a standup guy and spend your career alienating yourself among your peers, managers, umpires, writers, you’re probably going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to any sort of recognition. That is human nature.
Jeff Kent is having trouble with his HOF campaign. He’s been on the ballot for a while but still no cigar. He could reportedly be pretty surly.
It’s not so much that the times are different, as it is that we know a lot more about every player these days. I seriously doubt Cobb would have gotten into the HoF had the voters known the true story about him.
Plus, the whole character issue was, is, and has always been applied selectively. If the writers that vote liked a guy because he was cooperative, and not surly, he had a much better chance than another guy with the same baggage, but was less likeable. For instance, there’s as much proof that Pudge Rodriguez and Mike Piazza did steroids as there is for Barry Bonds, but Bonds was disliked by the writers.
There are guys installed in the HoF that used PEDs, beat their wives or girlfriends, or did things even worse, while others are kept out because of the personal feelings of those that have a vote.
I can see the Tigs trying to flip both Boyd or Norris, but I would more than welcome an extension. I doubt it’s remotely possible for DET to trade Miggy.. but, the second the opportunity presents itself, maybe they would consider?? They managed to do so w/ Prince.
Good chat but I disagree respectfully with the Upton/ Heyward theoretical –
Upton comes with a 33% less shelf life – I think that sells that trade easily, regardless of the on-field numbers.
Not that this is a trade that has much / if any legs ever, but we are getting to a time when sadly finances are going to mean much more than on-field performances on some trades and the villagers must be forewarned
Cap & Crunch:
And I have to respectfully disagree with you. The difference in money is only $14M. Heyward (144 DRS) is infinitely better with the glove than Upton (-13) for their careers in the OF. Heyward’s last 2 seasons with the bat (106 OPS+) have been better than Upton’s (91 OPS+). If I were the Cubs, as much as I would like to move Heyward’s contract, I wouldn’t make that trade.
Fair enough, but I dont need DRS numbers to know I want out at the end of 22 not 23 regardless of the player, that was my point- I have no faith in either to rebound and purely view them as sunk costs moving forward
I can see your point, but I still don’t think, when it comes down to just the contracts, the savings are worth taking on an older and lesser player for someone with apparently more upside.
Given the choice, I think most teams would opt for Heyward over Upton, for the very affordable price of $14M for one year.
The difference is actually 21 mill not 14 –
I think the Angels are the ones that reject this trade still – Thats a lotta sunk cost to eat for some DRS !
Yeah you’re right. The BBRef numbers, which is what I used, doesn’t include the signing bonus money.
But I’d still keep Heyward over Upton.
re: haul for Castillo of Reds—If CIN was smart, should be huge. Not sure how much control team has but guy is crazy good, best changeup in a rotation and stuff besides to make it work. If he was big market, would already be household name. Two team top 5’s, two mlb top 20’s.
abcrazy4dodgers:
Not only is Castillo “crazy good”, he is dirt cheap. Although he will get paid when he reaches arb in 2021. But he’s not a FA until 2024. Cincy absolutely should not trade him unless it’s an absolute haul.
They absolutely deserve a big haul for him but two top 20 prospects is way too much. Sale netted a #1, Snell netted 1 top 20 and those guys have Cy Young’s. I think 1 top 20 and another top 100 is fair.
MillvilleMeteor:
The return on Sale isn’t really comparable. He was making over $9M, had just 2 seasons before free agency, and was owed almost $25M for those 2 years.
Snell is more like Sale than Castillo. He and Castillo aren’t set to hit free-agency until 2024, but Snell is set to make over $40M in the next 3 years. Castillo is still making the league minimum, He will get a good raise with arb, but his price is still below that of Snell.
But for the Reds, it isn’t about what the return was for those other guys, it’s why would they trade him unless it was for a big return?
Castillo is really more comparable to Jose Ramirez even though Ramirez isn’t a pitcher. There’s no reason for Cleveland to trade Ramirez unless they were completely overwhelmed, because he’s the perfect player for them; good and cheap. Just like Castillo.
IMO, whoever wants Castillo will also needs to take one of the Reds’ bigger contracts…like Suarez. I could see LA (re)packaging Josiah Gray as part of that deal. It would take care of the Dodgers 3rd base challenge for a few years at a reasonable annual price and it would add a solid #3 or 4 starter to their rotation.
With Kim and Cron being natural SS, I can see Tatis seeing more OF than the two of them. Tatis is uber athletic and only 22. He can learn the OF easier than they can
I’m not ready to hand the reigns to Kim. KBO is equivalent to AA. Aaron Altherr couldn’t stay on a big league roster but goes to KBO and hits 31 home runs.
While perusing the internet this evening, I came across a handful of signings that have yet to be written about on MLBTR.
Aaron Wilkerson to the Rakuten Monkeys (NPB)
Joe Biagini to the Cubs
Joe Harvey re-signs with the Rockies
Lucas Luetge to the Yankees
Randy Rosario to the Chunichi Dragons (NPB)
Sean Kazmar Jr. re-signs with the Braves
Tim Dillard re-signs with the Rangers
Zac Rosscup re-signs with the Rockies
Luis Garcia (former Phillies RP) to the Yankees
Matt Reynolds (former Mets SS) to the White Sox
Rob Brantly re-signs with the Yankees
Trevor Kelley to the Cubs
Ryan LaMarre to the Yankees
They’re busy prepping the 16 paragraph article on the Refsnyder to Minnesota deal.
Tight. That’s so tight PapiElf. How do you make it so tight?
Damn. That was so tight. It was so tight oatmeal couldn’t squeeze through the cracks of your tightness.
Thank you for the tightness!
Joey Gallo needs to stay with Texas till at least nest season’s trade deadline. Let’s hope he produces next season.
@tab2b13
Things are a little different now than they were in Cobb’s day. Today he would be bounced out of baseball and banned for life.
If you’re not a standup guy and spend your career alienating yourself among your peers, managers, umpires, writers, you’re probably going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to any sort of recognition. That is human nature.
Jeff Kent is having trouble with his HOF campaign. He’s been on the ballot for a while but still no cigar. He could reportedly be pretty surly.
DrDan75:
It’s not so much that the times are different, as it is that we know a lot more about every player these days. I seriously doubt Cobb would have gotten into the HoF had the voters known the true story about him.
Plus, the whole character issue was, is, and has always been applied selectively. If the writers that vote liked a guy because he was cooperative, and not surly, he had a much better chance than another guy with the same baggage, but was less likeable. For instance, there’s as much proof that Pudge Rodriguez and Mike Piazza did steroids as there is for Barry Bonds, but Bonds was disliked by the writers.
There are guys installed in the HoF that used PEDs, beat their wives or girlfriends, or did things even worse, while others are kept out because of the personal feelings of those that have a vote.
I can see the Tigs trying to flip both Boyd or Norris, but I would more than welcome an extension. I doubt it’s remotely possible for DET to trade Miggy.. but, the second the opportunity presents itself, maybe they would consider?? They managed to do so w/ Prince.
Sideline – yes, the HOF should be what player does on the field! Curt Schilling definitely deserves to be there.
IMO, HOF voting should be done by teams managers and coaches, front office personnel, and other associated baseball people and not the writers.