MARCH 10: Manager Dusty Baker announced Wednesday that Whitley will undergo Tommy John surgery, per Brian McTaggart of MLB.com. He’ll miss the entire season as a result.
MARCH 7: Astros pitching prospect Forrest Whitley has been advised to undergo Tommy John surgery, according to Mark Berman of KRIV Fox 26 (Twitter link). Whitley has been battling arm soreness that has now been diagnosed as a right UCL sprain, the team told Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle (Twitter link) and other reporters. No decision has yet been made about Whitley’s next step, as the right-hander is seeking a second opinion.
A 14-15 month layoff for TJ rehab would be the biggest setback yet in a career that has been hampered by injuries. Whitley also had an forearm problem last season that led to an early shutdown at the Astros’ alternate training site, and he has been sidelined with shoulder and oblique injuries in past years. Beyond just health woes, Whitley was also issued a 50-game drug suspension in 2018.
Despite all of these issues, Whitley’s potential is still so highly regarded that he has continued to remain a fixture on top-100 prospect lists over the last four years. Selected with the 17th overall pick of the 2016 draft, Whitley is still only 23 years old, as the Astros took the San Antonio native as a high schooler. Between the injuries and the suspension, however, Whitley has thrown only 197 innings as a professional from 2016-19, and just 24 1/3 frames at the Triple-A level. That brief stint at Triple-Round Rock didn’t pan out, as Whitley was torched for a 12.21 ERA with nine home runs allowed.
In the short term, the Astros were hoping Whitley would rebound from his lost season and look good enough to receive consideration for a MLB promotion at some point in 2021. Over the longer term, Whitley was seen as a bridge to the next generation of the Houston rotation, as Zack Greinke, Justin Verlander, and Lance McCullers Jr. can all be free agents after the season (and Verlander will already miss all of 2021 due to his own Tommy John procedure). Framber Valdez’s season may also be in question thanks to a broken finger, which is why the Astros added some veteran stability through at least the 2022 campaign by signing Jake Odorizzi yesterday.
Wow. So much promise. He’s a great example of why prospects are a risk and should never be off limits
Injuries happen but if you dont have some “favorites” you would not have any young players to build around.
He had a forearm sprain last season & this year it is not going away. TJ surgery might be the best option for him at this point.
The top comment is a great example of one’s bias affecting them to think logically. It’s much easier to develop a TOR starter than trade for one throughout history. And given the salaries they make it’s no wonder all these Ivy League gms think the complete opposite of you and the correct way and don’t trade away their top prospects anymore.
“It’s much easier to develop a TOR starter than trade for one throughout history.”
Can you make sure the Cubs get that message? They clearly have not known about this for quite some time.
John Lester. Can you tell Cubs fans that? Matt Scherzer. Tell National fans that. Verlander and Cole. Tell Astros fans that.
It’s hard to develop starters, it’s hard to pick the right ones in free agency and it’s hard to trade for the right ones. Nothing about pitchers is easy.
Hosmer for HOF
I mean I’ll give you a pass on the John instead of Jon Lester but Matt Scherzer? Getouttaheeeeeeaaaa
Cubs won World Series with Arrieta Lester Hendricks lackey and Hammel all acquired via trade and free agency
@halo11 ver and cole where gotten cheap because there were trending down and rejuvenated there careers. with max and jon both teams “overpaid” initially to get them (in the cubs case jon is the pitcher they needed to overpay to get them over the hump and this coming from a cub disliker). i have to agree with iverbure it’s a lot easier to raise your own ace or try to reclaim a former top prospect/vet with injuries(perfect example is any cast off pitcher tlr and dave duncan turned around) as an ace than go get one.
Braves acquired Smoltz (trade) & Maddux (free agent). Can you imagine what revisionist history would’ve been if Detroit kept Smoltz & if Maddux re-signed w the Cubs?
What bias is that? He was untouchable in trades and now chances are he’s a 30 year old former top prospect making his debut in the 6th inning of a blowout.
I understand keeping your prospects, but for every Trout you have a dozen flameouts. A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.
Trout was a bad example since he’ll probably go down as a top 3 player. Maybe a better person would be a guy that makes a few all star teams over the course of a 14 year career (Tim Salmon/Garrett Andrerson type).
I really depends on how stupid the GM is. Take Al Avila for example…..
Lol. Just joking. Al is a nice guy. Really. He’ll prove it again this year.
Of course a “prospects are suspects” comment on a story like this, never fails. Whitley had a lot of hype for around 1 year. In 2018 his PED bust started to cool people’s thoughts on this guy. His peak value was in 2017 where the team won the World Series even if it was by cheating. Astros traded for Verlander, Greinke and Cole over the years. They didn’t miss out on a player by holding onto Whitley too long.
@amk920 Well said. Why trade Whitley when u can get Cole for joe musgraves ??!
That being said – anytime u have the next superstar yet they aren’t mlb ready – trade em ASAP ! 100% of the time. Let them be the centerpiece to acquire an actual star and not shoulda woulda coulda
In the age of tatis soto Acuna and more – if you are cut out for majors – you can be ready at 19. If not – u got hype Twins coulda got arenado and maybe story too for money they spent on Donaldson and Royce Lewis. Throw Colorado a 100 mil and Lewis for those two last offseason and rox woulda jumped all over it ! Instead they got an injury prone vet and hype bc they refuse to deal prospects.
Not sure who Joe Musgraves is. Oh, and how much did they spend on Royce Lewis?
Kind of funny that you mentioned Tatis, since the Padres traded for him. Most people say he was practically given to the Padres.
Well seeing as you can get guys like Nolan Arenado, Christian Yelich, and Giancarlo Stanton for nothing these days… I shutter to think what an actual top prospect can bring back.
I never said they missed out on a player because they held onto him. Good God people, stop reading too far into what I said.
Stop saying “an example of why prospects are risks” everytime something bad happens.
all prospects are risky in one way or another and each organization feels/sees there prospects differently than others. maybe hou thought forest has a tool so great unless team x blows the doors off in there offer you keep him. building constant winners starts on the farm and not trading them for the right now.
I feel like his PED must was more of a drug of abuse. He took a stimulant to keep himself awake while driving.
*drug of abuse, not PEDs
Haha! Hung out with Jonathon Singleton
This dude might never play in the majors the way his career has gone so far
Man in 2017, Forrest Whitley, Brent Honeywell, and Anderson Espinosa were considered future Aces.
For Love of the Game
And there was a time when Tommy John was just a decent pitcher, not an adjective!
I talked to my family about Tommy John at our breakfast table yesterday. Most of the time ALS is not referred to as Lou Gehrig’s disease, I hope Tommy John surgery does not suffer the same fate.
Actually, ALS is what it is referred to now and when people don’t know what you’re talking about, you tell them Lou Gehrig, and then they kind of know.
Like the Affordable Care Act, people love to tag a person’s name onto it for some inane reason. Then people think it’s two different things. Stupid.
Affordable Care Act is an advertising tag line. It’s not affordable and I’ve never paid so much for so little.
I don’t want to get into politics, but I can’t call it that.
It needs a better name.
All it needs is 2 simple letters added at the front.. “un” and it’s fine.
I don’t want to get into PARTY politics but it the name of a any bill and what it actually does are two different things
Like “privatize social security”. There’s nothing social or secure about the private sector. Spent decades in the financial sector. Many in it are more stupid than the bureaucrats, so to “privatize” would be to kill. But I’m sure the Pension Benefit Guarantee Fund will give me a few pennies for the dollars that my prior company squandered into oblivion.
Benefits that’s a joke, hah I earned every penny working 45 years, I wasn’t given anything other then the so-called stimulus check’s as a benefit.
“I don’t want to get into politics.”
Gets into politics twice.
The great reset is upon us
you know sometimes i sit and think maybe tommy john should be in the hof on the fact that he pioneered a surgery that at the time the death nail for a pitcher.
astros arent out of the woods yet
And the Tommy John’s list begins…
I hate the baseball gods are striking their vengeance on the Astros through Whitley
For Love of the Game
And JV. $66 mill. for 1 game is perhaps the greatest haul in sports!
It’s not that bad. A much more “reasonable” $45M for one game factoring in 2020’s prorated salary.
Ok. It’s bad.
Floyd has him beat
JV was part of the team that cheated. He got what he deserved.
Chandler Parsons with the Rockets was pretty bad. Major overpay for someone who was never great. JV had been incredibly durable.
That’s what happens with signing a true vet that you can win with. Sometimes you win sometimes you don’t.
And another one. The TJS waiting room continues to fill up. Nobody cares to help alleviate this ongoing issue or come up with real solutions to help pitchers in the game of baseball.
Because watching bat flips is so cool.
Protecting and monitoring workloads has done nothing. Baseball needs to take this serious rather than be happy another high pay job has been created.
What do bat flips have to do with UCL tears? You don’t provide any solutions either, but seem to feel you have some morally superior position. The issue is throwing an object 90+ mph has the ability to tear your UCL on any pitch. There really is nothing we can do to stop them unless we ban throwing over 89 MPH. All we can do is monitor workloads, provide the highest level strength and condition, and attempt to put guys in the least detrimental positions. All 3 of which teams are doing.
No more coffee for Steve Nebraska, calm down dude.
It takes a culture change and a change of coaching philosophy from the beginning. This ship won’t be turned around overnight.
You really don’t need to be throwing over 90 to do it, either. The motion of throwing a baseball repeatedly just isn’t good for the human body.
i feel it’s more movement and how much torque pitchers are putting on there wrist not saying throwing hard is a factor. i think your seeing a rise in tjs because the way youth now play bb it’s almost year round.
Nebraska you are a little slow and deciding to pick a fight over a very sarcastic comment says more about what you need to work on as a person. Yes I went there.
Bat flips means bombs. Bombs means offense. Most rule changes and the current state of baseball is driven by offense and offensive-minded ideas while less fans watch. Less fans watch because pitchers, not hitters, control the baseball and control the game. Instead of lifting pitchers we watch them suffer while hitters are afforded tremendous leeway to do what they want.
I told you a long time ago; take the arm pads off. Wake up. That is something worth banning. Take them off and you’ll see a change to the game for the better, in many instances and areas including a reduction in MPH by pitchers.
Aren’t seeing position players go down to TJS all that much on one throw over 90+ with a crow hop so that too blows your argument.
So get rid of elbow guards, get rid of UCL tears? That’s some Q anon level rationalizations there, my dude. Get rid of elbow guards and you’ll just see hitters getting out of the way. Pitchers aren’t gunna throw it softer cuz they don’t wanna hurt the wittle batter.
Also, yes we are seeing PPs get TJ. It just happens on a super micro scale because they don’t throw it that hard as much.
Please keep psychoanalyzing an anonymous stranger. You’re so freaking adorable.
Super micro scale. Exactly. You still don’t get it? That’s cute. In your next life maybe play beyond that’ll and perhaps we can have a real baseball discussion rather than your usual diatribe of keeping soft baseball relevant.
UCL tears will decrease, not eliminate entirely. But keep up the usual ignorance while fronting a horrible baseball movie as your name.
Steve Nebraska gets so worked up over a children’s game. Maturity obviously doesn’t come with age.
let’s be honest all of here get worked up on a kids game some more than others
Too much “all out” max effort at a young age and an expectation to continue using those bullets at a max effort for the rest of their pitching career.
I don’t think the problem is at the MLB level. I think it starts at little league or even earlier.
If scouts would actually promote guys who can pitch, instead hit 100 on radar guns, these injuries would start to go down.
Agreed Antone. These kids shouldn’t be allowed to throw “junk” and yes they should keep them in that 90 mph area. Some of them have been pitching since they were 9-10 years old, hitting the gym and it seems pretty clear the body can’t take that. Put the priority on location, hitting your spots, control – that has always been a better measure of long term success for pitchers anyway – certainly more than the ability to pitch 95-100. Then when they get to the majors and need to “reach back” and find another mph or 2 on an important pitch, they probably can. Pretty soon it’s going to be like a running back in the NFL, just use them for 2-3 years and they’re done. It’s unsustainable and the sport needs to change.
Kripes junk isn’t the problem. Give the kids an offseason break and lift the pitchers mound from 10 inches to 15 across the board at all levels pitching from 60 feet 6 inches.
The more changes baseball makes that go against the pitcher, the more injuries we will see on the mound. It’s time to stop allowing hitters to have advantages they should not be allowed to have.
Anyone, you are correct. Look at the James Andrews study on early throwing. The more innings pitched prior to High School the less likely a kid will finish High School playing baseball. And contrary to popular belief more kids hurt their elbows throwing fastballs. Not that any curve or slider type pitch is better
So you are saying they should eliminate breaking pitches in high school? What about the 99.9 percent of kids who will never play beyond college?
I don’t know why you would take that away from them? Are you going to turn high school football into flag football?
Let kids be kids. To me, the answer is not depriving kids of a childhood.
Playing baseball with your High School team is not the problem. The problem comes with all the innings that get logged playing “Travel Team” baseball. High School athletics didn’t create this problem.
Several years ago the blue jays did mri’s on all pitchers, 75 percent had damage to some extent on the pitching arm, some worse then others
You guys are on the right track, but ultimately the biggest difference between the 1970s when guys could throw 20 complete games in a season is that they barely touched a baseball in the offseason. The arm needs 4+ months of down time to recoup from a season.
Read Dr. Tommy John (TJs son) and clips from John Smoltz (HOFer) on this very issue.
Bottom line, year round baseball is causing TJ injuries at an alarming rate.
The difference in they they could pace themselves and didn’t throw four pitches. Every lineup had easy outs. HR kings hit 32 Home Runs, They also threw in the 80s and low 90s.
If you don’t pick up a ball in the off season now, you’re way behind the curve.
@halo11 i think dirk is on to something your seeing more and more long term injuries in all sports not just baseball. players in general need to rest and just do light workouts to stay in shape. then start ramping up about month before the season.
Nolan Ryan and Walter Johnson say hello.
The human arm was not built to throw a ball 95 mph. Not to mention all the breaking balls that a pitcher must throw. What can you do?
The ability of human beings has been exceeded by their ability to remain healthy. A human being is only capable of so much.
What’s also interesting is umpires no longer have the physical capability of calling those pitches. We can do something about that, but not enough people want to.
I’m open to ideas.
Expand the width of the strike zone a small amount and have any pitch over 95 MPH an automatic ball or a non-pitch if the batter doesn’t swing?
What do you suggest they do about it? The big issue is that Kids are throwing harder with more break and at younger ages. By the time a kid hits 25, he may already have 12-15 years on his arm already. In my area, kids start facing kids when they’re 9-10 years old.
I recall this conversion from 30 40 years ago. Not much has changed. They put in some limitations along the way.
I don’t remember this conversation 30 or 40 years ago.
Yeah Mike Marshall advocated throwing more and not less during the season. And not throwing all year long but putting the ball down during the off season.
The change has come with the amount of Travel Team baseball that is played. The wear and tear on a kids arm is crazy. Kids are traveling around the country as young as 9 years old looking to play against the “best” competition and prove that they are among the elite.
Halo, 30 years ago hitters did not wear arm padding. Are you getting the message now? Take them off, hitters back off and change their approach. Average pitches per at bat will drop, hitters will buckle more often on slider/curve, pitchers won’t need to run it up 95+ as much, they will go further in games.
Raise the mound back to 15 inches, push any fence back (if-possible), raise the fences (if-possible), call strikes on pitches between the belt and letters as per league rules.
All will result in quicker games, higher win totals, higher inning totals, cleaner game, more excitement on relay plays, more doubles and triples, more strategy. And, a lower percentage of TJS. Pitchers can legitimately challenge for 300 wins and remain stars for a longer period of time.
if we’re going down that rabbit hole 30 years ago pitchers were allowed to pitch inside and players policed the game itself. elbow pads have nothing to do with this it’s a shift in philosophy that we are seeing. for the fact to get more action and wanna see games “quicken” up gm’s need to start valuing contact guys more everyone see if i can hit bombs i’m getting paid.
There’s no evidence that arm padding=more Tommy John surgery. But that’s correlation, not causation. Pitching velocities won’t go down simpily by taking padding away from hitters. A guy who consistently throws 97-100 MPH won’t suddenly start throwing 92-95 MPH simpily because arm padding.
@mlb1225 one could also batters wearing arm pads help them with there swing i see them being more restrictive on batters natural swing. i say if hitters wanna trade possible peak performance for security.
mlb1225, don’t you realize there is a direct correlation with TJs and the national debt? Decrease national debt, decrease TJs. Simple as that!
mlb1225 – the evidence is from the spike in surgeries since the strike, precisely when hitters starting wearing them. They go hand in hand. Anyone saying they don’t enhance performance is absolutely inept.
Over time, pitchers will adjust their speed. Guys 30 years ago could run it up faster than they threw normally. It was common that they threw from a comfortable level. The mph will drop over a period of adjustment to normal baseball.
Yesterday I saw Teoscar get hit on the arm guard on a pitch that wasn’t far off the plate. It is a major problem. Hit YouTube and watch a game from 1990 or 1985. See where the batter stood and what pitchers could do. Then tell me it has no affect on today’s pitchers.
We started facing kids at 8 when I played. Looking back at it now, I feel really bad for the people umping those games. 8 year olds do not throw a lot of strikes.
We had a ten ball walk rule until there were two strikes and then it was four or the next ball if you were over four. Part of the reason I was able to pitch until age 41 was all those 9 and 0 counts I had when I first started. Lots of practice finding the strike zone!
Read “The MVP machine” and “The Arm”. You’ll love it.
Bat flips have nothing to do with Pitcher being taught to throw at max speed at a young age and then coddled so their arm doesn’t build up endurance and strength. Maybe they need to take cues from pitchers of the yesteryear that threw 300ip and would go 7-8 innings a game, sometimes even complete a game.
Gwynn, Hitters do what they want, when they want to. They will bat flip as long as they are given all advantages in this game. You missed the point entirely but I’ve read your comments in other stories and it comes as no surprise.
i wonder with how much a lot of these kids are playing now if metal bats are factoring in to elbow problems. i know my elbow doesn’t like it when i use an all steel hammer.
Brodie I’m in Canada and more kids are using wood bats at the lower levels. But College does not. So I’m not sure how much aluminum bats affect pitchers.
Like arm guards, there is too much money tied to college ball and aluminum bats. I doubt they will ever go to wood just like pro ball will never drop arm guards.
here in the us from when i played 20~25 years ago we used metal bats and i remember that the bat vibrated hard on anything that wasn’t solid contact. vibration is the reason i use fiberglass or wood handle hammers because the material deadens each blow. your right there is too much money tied into metal bats for them to be “tossed” aside
Big Arm Guard is corrupting America’s youth
Arm guards are not causing Tommy John surgery. You’re entire basis on this is that pitchers won’t use the high heat as often. I’m just saying this now, but if a batter struggles to hit the high heat, I don’t care if he’s wearing an arm guard or not, I’m going to throw that at him. Aroldis Chapman isn’t going to start becoming a sinker/slider pitcher because no arm guard. Noah Syndegaard would still be having injuries, arm guards or not..
The baseball meta 30 years ago was so different to today that arm guards are not the cause. This is correlation, not causation. They are not the same thing. This would be like me saying that the rise in strikeouts is because the construction of cookie-cutter stadiums stopped. because the average strikeout rate has risen since the 1990’s.
Why isn’t it the rise in velocity, the huge usage of off-speed and breaking pitches, pitchers throwing younger, pitchers throwing all year around, but to you, it’s the arm guards?
spot on mlb1225 when i pitched in ll i would pitch on what i felt was the batters weakness and that’s how i would pitch never did i go he is wearing ppe gotta i gotta throw harder. this is an onion issue that has many layers that all have an effect.
Because it is the arm guards MLB. They allow players to stand closer to the plate. It allows hitters to:
-reach the outside corner on fastballs
-hit the inside fastball because they are better than amateurs brodie played against
-rarely flinch on slider/curve
-hit the slider/curve more often
-turn pitchers into a more fastball/change repotiore
-increase the average number of pitches thrown per at bat.
But keep talking about the high mph, and make sure you never complain about a pitcher’s drop in velocity ever again since, in your mind, that’s better for his arm.
I never said it was better for a pitcher’s arm. I said that velocites are rising and it’s understandable why. It’s harder to hit 97 MPH than 92 MPH. That doesn’t mean I think it’s better for his arm. I’m just saying that velocity in baseball has been rising and that could be a leading cause for TJ surgery.
@were all your points cans also be proved on the fact that mlb took the inside pitch away. any time a batter is hit whether intentional or not it’s up to the ump’s discretion on intent. if warnings are issued there goes the inside pitch for that game. because of how finicky some umps can be most pitchers today are afraid to throw inside because if it’s to close that might be there last pitch. if arm guards are so great then why don’t 95% of players wear them. unless you have some hard data you can’t tell me something strapped to a joint is not going to decrease performance in some way. heck when i gotta tape up my fingers because of a work injury i can tell you i lose mobility in that finger if have to tape up the joint.
you say “nobody cares” like there’s an easy fix to this all.
Sad news, I really wanted to see what this guy could do! It’ll be such a good story when he’s healthy and pitches well. Hopefully that day arrives at some point.
Big blow for him and the organization. Doesn’t help he has the Drug suspension also. I know you do all you can to avoid surgery, but surely they had an idea last year he needed this and could have gotten this done a while ago. I mean, if there was any year in baseball to miss a season for whatever, 2020 was it. Regardless, hope the best for him. Never like big time prospects to go through the ringer and always want to see what impacts a kid like him can bring a team.
What big blow? It’s not like he has been counted on to do anything over the past year or two. If they ever get anything out of Whitley it will be gravy for them, otherwise it’s not a big deal.
i can understand him wanting to avoid surgery and see if shutting down and resting won’t fix it. going under the knife now matter how “routine” it may be has negative effects to. also who is to say what’s the limit on tjs until the procedure doesn’t work anymore. also on that subject do ligaments have the same rejection rate like organs do (i’m asking because i don’t know but if it is the case could be another factor trying to see if you can work out the issue). my final point players have bad days and i know these guys only go to elite surgeons but they have bad days too and your on the table when the surgeon having an off day.
He’s young enough to still have a good major league career. He won’t win two hundred games but he can still win well over 100.
High school pitchers are inherently risky, hope he can recover and move on to a bog league career.
It was awesome to awake to this crap. Dang
It will be interesting to see all of these kids doing Driveline that have shorter arm action and the impact this will have on injuries. Velo has increased for sure, but the injury side is what will be interesting to see in another 5 years. Never will know 100% as every player has a different work ethic and dedication.
I feel like this year is going to be awful for TJ surgery, following up on last year. So many pitchers trying to “ramp up” without an abundance of caution. All of these minor leaguers fighting for jobs with the contraction of teams. It’s going to be a mess, I’m afraid.
Is TJS the greatest enabler of TJS? Meaning since it was perfected, pitchers at younger and younger ages are encouraged to adopt a max effort approach knowing TJS exists if they blow out their elbows.
Do pitchers in Japan have TJS at anywhere near the rate as we do here?
Max effort is occurring because hitters crowd the plate without reaction thanks to overpolicing by umpires and the league. They crowd thanks to arm padding. Ban the arm guards. They are the enabler of TJS, along with some off the field shenanigans.
no mlb taking away the inside pitch holds more water than a piece of equipment no pitcher has ever went “fudge he is wearing armor i got ramp it up”. arm guards imo hurt hitters just as much as they you can’t tell me that having stuff strapped to your arm isn’t going to effect your natural swing. batters wear for security not for a performance edge. heck you can the best hitters of all time in a riot gear and i’d bet they couldn’t hit a double but hey there safe from that “inside pitch” that argument just doesn’t hold water for me.
No chance in hell arm guards hurt a hitter. If it did then you should agree to ban it.
Security IS a performance edge.
Old school players would have rather worn arm padding than be forced to stand further away from the plate with a closed stance hiding their hands away from the plate to avoid a drilling. Today the umps warm teams over a brushback. So yes, the arguments hold weight.
security is only a mental edge not a psychical edge, i can tell you right now if i wore an arm guard like they do i couldn’t swing a hammer with the same force with out it and before you discredit swinging a hammer. swinging a bat has very similar movements on the elbow as swinging a hammer and i know because i still do both.
you know what, i wae going to counter you but you might be on to something.
He may have a point, but I don’t feel as though young pitchers are thinking “oh well, I’ll just get TJS if I get hurt.” While players have certainly come back from TJS as good as new, it is fairly common that one TJS begets another.
@dark after talking with my pops and he made a point on the mental side. even if the arm guard takes away from possible performance it gives them peace of mind but i’m still sticking with between mlb limiting the inside pitch and there are a lot of pitchers that are afraid to go inside because they don’t have control. i heard an interview today with lee smith and he made a good point on guys throwing 97+ there throwers not pitchers. a lot of these flamethrowers are just reaching back and throwing as hard as they can instead of locating and taking a few mph off to hit your spots.
Saw this guy pitch for Corpus Christi 2 yrs ago and he was abysmally bad. He only lasted a few innings with wild pitches, multiple walks, few strikeouts and like seven runs. Embarrassing. The catcher was equally bad though
randy johnson and nolan ryan were bad there first few years too and look where they needed up (not saying the kid is going to a hof just that hof’ers have rough starts)
It was the regression from his previous success that was concerning
Randy Johnson was a 2 win/200 type pitcher his first few years, that’s not bad. He just wasn’t Randy Johnson good.
i was just making a point that those guys “sucked” early in there careers but turned it around and became hof’ers. so i can understand why teams hold on to certain prospects to long. at the end of the day with prospects do you have the next trout or the next brett wallace.
Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, et al would split a gut laughing at the notion of not being allowed to throw over 95.
Maybe the problem is MLB scouts placing such a large premium on velocity at the expense of command, resulting in overly aggressive coaching and training methods at the amateur level. I recall being absolutely stunned the first time I heard about a high school pitcher going in for TJ surgery several years back.
Arm pads – why complain? They won’t help if a pitcher goes for the thigh and makes em dance.
Last thought, Whitley’s situation is oddly reminiscent of Brien Taylor way back when. Hope that’s not the end result – I was looking forward to what this kid could do. Hopefully he’ll recover well.
“Maybe the problem is MLB scouts placing such a large premium on velocity at the expense of command,”
I wrote those words awhile back as well. Spot on.
i think command is only part of the problem that is piling up to a bigger problem because command type pitchers aren’t spared from tjs (would be interesting to see the numbers between flamethrowers and command guys and tjs rates). i thinks this starts at a young age with overuse of kids aggressive kids coaches treating it like the pro ranks and poor coaching on how to play at a young age.
Brodie’s comment is on the money. They’ve been teaching command forever, it’s not new. I pitched with command first, then brought the heat as I got older. But, I was allowed to develop.
My son’s 10U travel team’s pitching coach is teaching curve balls and other off speed pitches. They don’t work on quadrant placement. The torsion on the elbow ligaments and tendons is a going to create irreversible damage to certain kids. Combine that with the desires for these kids to throw as hard as possible as they age and it results in all these surgeries.
Now, they say velocity is the cause of TJ; however, I argue velocity alone is not. Nolan Ryan (reputable) affirmed that curveballs at early ages contribute strongly to the relatively recently youth TJS issue. I agree. Every parent thinks his kid is the next superstar MLB player – he’s not. It’s talent, exposure, luck, size, and connections (Mike Piazza, for example).
Hope Forrest recovers well and is able to continue in his career pitching.
thanks clip on that take a lot of that was personally based just playing regular ll not elite or traveling teams but i can tell back then at hs age when i started throwing curves and what not to now when me and some buddies think we still got it. i feel the off speed pitches more so now than throwing as hard as i can and the difference is is how i’m releasing the ball. on a fastball i’m not twisting my wrist to get “more spin or movement“ so my release is cleaner but i throw that change up or curve i feel it. i’m not throwing an “softer” on a breaking pitch it’s the actions i’m doing before i release the ball is what cause it to “slow down”. it’s like saying a sports car has more power than a semi because they can go “faster” which the fact is they have the same power just they use it differently.
Yep whyhayzee – a coach can’t turn a kid into Aroldis Chapman or Nolan Ryan. I wish they’d encourage kids to emulate pitchers like Greg Maddux, Zach Greinke, Dennis Eckersley, Mark Buerhle. Great control, cerebral, field the position well, plenty of swing and miss talent without the giant arm. Much more realistic and effective template to use. Kids blow out their arms trying to light up a radar gun instead of learning the art of pitching.
Everyone wants an easily quantified measure so velocity wins. Location and movement are even better parameters but more difficult to quantify. It would be “interesting” to have pitchers throw to older batters through their development so they would have to develop location and movement skills to survive. Kind of diabolical but I was a pitcher. Watch an athlete compete at any other sport where accuracy is essential. Very few times do you see them elicit a high level of effort resulting in maximum velocity. It can happen but nowhere near with the frequency of pitching baseballs.
I think some tools of technology will be used exactly for the purposes you mention, evaluating location and movement. They’re already available in the majors – but could be useful for early pitching development at high school/college level. Seems a natural extension of the strike zone technology being looked at to assist in calling balls and strikes.
whyhayzee i pitched as well and i was a kid that lived on spotting my pitches than blow the ball past them. i just feel command is just a part of a bigger issue. i was just talking with my dad about this and he brought poor mechanics and it reminded me of the game reyes tore his lat the announcer (think it was jim edmonds) made a comment that he was pitching off balance and next few pitches he was hurt.
Yes velocity is up. But I’d argue it’s really less about velocity and more about forcing kids to throw sliders and curveballs before their ligaments have fully formed, and how many they throw
Hence the complaints with year round baseball. It’s too competitive, too young
i agree lurking kids before hs age shouldn’t be thrown into competition like hs kids or older. you can’t tell me that a 9~12 yo arm is devolved like a hs kid is and even then there not full developed. most of us don’t stop “growing or developing” till our early 20’s. i will say this as the betting man i am i’d place put money down on a lot of these injuries wouldn’t happen if parents understood that there kid isn’t the next hof pitcher and stop pushing them like they are. at what point as a parent do you step in and go “hey kid you love bb but you can’t play 9 months of the year” or the pushing your failed dreams on your kid.
Astros depth seems to be depleting. First Valdez and now Whitley. Probably should try to squeeze in another vet on at least a minor league deal
Mike Leake is still available but on the fence about whether or not he even wants to play in 2021. Any other remaining SPs will be available cheap on a 1-year deal, but you get what you pay for.
Sometimes you get a little more than you pay for, it’s rare but it happens.
Zack Godley, Homer Bailey, Trevor Cahill, Jeff Samardzija are all still available with varying degrees of success. You never know if you hit on one. Plus there’s always the guys on minor league deals that get cut from their current team
Luxury tax likely prevents them from doing much. As dumb as that logic remains
It’s not about paying the tax for Houston, it’s about the draft pick compensation. Since Houston lost its 1st & 2nd round picks for 2020 and 2021 due to the cheating scandal, they really need to pick up compensatory picks in the draft. They are going to issue QO’s for Correa, McCullers and Verlander. If any of these players turn down the QO and sign elsewhere, Houston would get a 2nd round compensatory pick for each player lost so long as they stay under the CBT. If they go over the CBT, those compensatory picks fall to the 4th or 5th round. So this is the reason why Houston is aiming to stay below the CBT this year; there’s a huge talent difference between a 2nd round pick and a 4th or 5th rounder.
if comes down to the drunken idiot in the stands (myself included) or leake think i’d rather see the drunken idiot pitch
So much for “potential”, pitch counts and radar guns. Again.
Someone needs to teach these kids proper mechanics and philosophies so they can protect themselves.
i can agree with that poor mechanics will get anyone hurt i know this from my trade if a part of my body is hurting i’ll adjust what i’m doing to take psi off it but at the same time i’m straining other parts of my body.
I think it’s more about learning how to get guys out without going max effort on every pitch. I think that philosophy developed based on economics. Teams don’t see it as getting value by having a guy learn how to pitch during their cheap years.
2 strike strikeouts and 3 ball walks are on the horizon. Sound stupid? That’s right up Manfred’s alley.
Danny Hultzen 2.0
wu tang killa beez
Will he get non tendered next offseason ?
Read the article as Forrest Whitaker. Had to double check