The Mets are seemingly running out of time to extend their prized offseason acquisition, shortstop Francisco Lindor. The 27-year-old, who earned four All-Star nods with the Indians before joining the Mets in a blockbuster winter trade, has made it clear he will not negotiate a new contract when the regular season begins Thursday. That means he could become the leading free agent on the board next offseason.
Although the Mets and Lindor are closing in on his self-imposed deadline, they’re not yet moving toward an agreement, per Andy Martino of SNY.tv. The Mets have made Lindor a franchise-record offer worth around $325MM over 10 years, Martino writes, and Jon Heyman of MLB Network tweets it’s “believed” the club will not make him another proposal before his deadline. Expectations across the industry are that the two sides will hammer out an agreement, Martino relays, though Lindor is looking for a deal in the 12-year, $400MM range, according to Deesha Thosar of the New York Daily News. Indeed, Lindor’s camp has made the Mets a 12-year, $385MM counteroffer, Tim Healey of Newsday reports.
It appears there is a wide gap to close, but it should help the Mets’ chances that they have baseball’s richest owner, Steve Cohen, who had dinner with Lindor on Saturday. Cohen addressed the Lindor situation in a pre-recorded online Q&A with Mets announcer Wayne Randazzo and fans (via Ken Davidoff the New York Post), saying, “It takes two people to sign a contract, not one.” He added: “Well, we have a deadline [March] 31, today is the 29th. It either will or won’t in the next two days.”
What do you think? Will Cohen & Co. get it done? (Poll link for app users)
Duh! Of course they will. There not giving up all that talent for one year lol
They already did. Lindor had one year left on his contract when they acquired him. Anything else that happens is a separate transaction. And he owes the Mets nothing.
Jim, you do know what the work extend means… right?
Yes sir. I sure do. Doesn’t change the fact that Lindor was a rental when the Mets traded for him. Even if they do manage to extend him it doesn’t mean they traded for multiple years of Lindor. It means they traded for one year of Lindor. Period. Then they extended Lindor. Period.
There are a lot of factors because the mets have him on the roster, but mainly they have exclusive negotiating rights until next offseason. Thats what trading brings back to the mets.
Does Lindor risk a potential down season like last year which will cause him to lose a touch more money especially with the change in baseballs again?
Does he take a slightly lesser offer because there could be a strike next year and he has no deal til 2023 or what happens in the new CBA? Are there hard caps?
Does he take a lesser offer because he wants security from injury?
Does he realize because the team has him for the year and he is all but guaranteed a qualifying offer (part of something that comes along with the trade btw since they have him for the full year) and high picks are considered gold to even big market teams nowadays because of the potential downstream savings..
Things he has to consider when turning down the deal. Is 15-20 million over 10 worth the risk? All because the mets have him on the team and have exclusive negotiating rights until the offseason. Its his choice in the end but this is advantages for the mets of trading for him.
While they are two separate transactions the Mets got the ability to extend him from the trade. If he had a weird clause in his contract saying “I can’t be extended in 2021” the Mets would have given less for him in the trade.
@Flyby considering Lindor’s personality and everything he has said and the fact that he apparently just turned down $325m, I think you already know the answer to every question you just asked…
@JOHNSmith2778 No, you don’t give up more in trade because you think you’ll be able to extend the player and if you do you need to be fired.
I voted no and he is not worth it.
Flyby: I agree with everything you said. The only question Lindor needs answered is the one that he needs to ask AND answer himself. How many MILLIONS of dollars per year is enough? The Indians made a great trade when they gave up 1 yr of Lindor & 3 yrs of Carrasco for 2 young (controllable) MLB players 3 & 6 yrs respectively, a pitching prospect and a just drafted (2nd rd) player out of high school.
Not true… Cards fan here… we do it all the time. Outside of the Heyward attempt and we dodged a bullet there.
Edmonds
Rolen
Holiday
Goldschmidt
Arenado? (Time will tell)
@Skins314 absolutely true. Matt Holliday never signed an extension. He signed with the Cards as a FA. And they offered him more $ than everyone else which means he still would have signed with the Cards if they hadn’t traded for him first. Goldschmidt wouldn’t have gotten $130m as a FA and also cost the Cards a couple of nice young trade chips. And Arenado is already signed through 2026. And Jason Heyward is a perfect example of what I am saying. The fact that you ended up dodging a bullet on him doesn’t change that.
Repeat after me: You never assume the player will sign an extension just because you traded for him.
It’s a gamble! Just like a draft pick, free agent signing, firing your GM/Manager… you do it cause you’re betting on your ownership, your core, the teams rep…
Matt Holiday was traded here, from the A’s at the deadline, and decided to resign here.
Goldy was a good trade and extend.
Arenado has an opt out each of the next two seasons.
It’s not perfect but it can work. Get over it.
Holliday would have signed with the Cards if they hadn’t traded for him. The Cardinals could have kept Weaver and Kelly (or traded them for something else) and gotten Goldschmidt for $130m in FA. Arenado isn’t opting out.
If you trade for a player because you think you’ll be able to extend him, you are much more likely to end up looking like the Phillies with J. T. Realmuto.
Seems like Lindor has a weird unwritten clause that says “I will become a free agent unless I’m the beneficiary of a massive extension overpay”.
Jim is right. If you are arguing against him you need to sleep in it and think about it fresh tomorrow. If you still can’t see it then I fear there is no hope for you.
Trading for a rental player obviously is in no way a guarantee they ll sign an extension. However, it does develop a relationship between the player and franchise. That provides a level of comfort for the franchise offering a massive extension and also a level of comfort and familiarity for the player. There is also no guarantee that STL would have offered massive deals to Holiday and Goldschmidt had they not gotten the chance to develop the relationship they had/have with them.
Ultimately it is a risk trading for a rental player. However, historically it has proven it increase odds a player will resign with the franchise they are traded to.
“Trading for a rental player obviously is in no way a guarantee they ll sign an extension.”
Exactly! So people need to stop acting like it is.
“However, it does develop a relationship between the player and franchise.”
You don’t give up top prospects to “develop a relationship” with a player.
“That provides a level of comfort for the franchise offering a massive extension and also a level of comfort and familiarity for the player.”
Gonna need to see something tangible to prove this one.
“There is also no guarantee that STL would have offered massive deals to Holiday and Goldschmidt had they not gotten the chance to develop the relationship they had/have with them. ”
That wouldn’t mean they couldn’t offer them those deals. It would mean they simply chose not to. There’s a difference.
“… However, historically it has proven it increase odds a player will resign with the franchise they are traded to.”
No it hasn’t. You can ask Matt Klentak about that one. It cost him his job.
They traded a bunch of replaceable parts for one year of a superstar. Whether they re-sign him or not, and I hope they don’t give him 300 million plus, it was a good trade for the Mets.
Skins, the difference is no other team in baseball was going to pay Goldschmidt $130 million.
Cliff Lee says hello.
Mets were dumb enough to trade all that talent for a one-year rental, would be a shame if it doesn’t result in at least a World Series appearance this year. Tell me again how a guy with a career .833 OPS is worth more than Mookie and Harper?
IIRC Baseball Trade Values said it was a fair trade.
Lindor says he is. If Cohen is stupid enough to believe him, then the Mets are not in as good hands as their starry-eyed fans think they are.
Question says “extend”. They haven’t yet.
Would anyone be surprised if the Dodgers, through back-channel sources, let Lindor know he shouldn’t sign anything now — and wait for their offer next winter?
Seager is younger, is a proven MVP in the post-season, is an organizational product and, in terms of age, will be less likely to have that steep decline during a 10-12 year commitment.
I doubt back-channels are involved given how Seager is done the last couple years recovering fro his injuries/surgery.
@ctyank7…
1. That my friend is calling tampering
2. That offer isn’t legally binding and won’t still be there next winter if Lindor struggles in 2021
John Smith:
There’s no “Duh! Of course….” about it. In fact, there’s a good chance he isn’t extended, no matter how much the Mets want to. At this point Lindor has to think 10/325 is something he could get from several other teams. He’s not going to be losing money by rejecting this offer. I think he has to be thinking either blow me away with an offer I can’t refuse, or I test free-agency.
@Tad is 100 percent correct on this issue. The abundance of confidence in extending Lindor is astounding given the relatively low offer to start. Lindor has no reason to take market value, as he described above.
All valid points.
Still, I voted yes.
They almost have to. & Cohen will spend. All jokes – & there are plenty of them – aside the mets have a different flavor. Sort of…man, you know what I mean.
Cohen should offer him opt-outs every two years. If he thinks he can do better, he could try in his age 29 and 31 seasons.
Nope. Sunk cost fallacy. Rosario and Gimenez aren’t coming back. No reason for the Mets to compound that mistake by overpaying Lindor to stay.
Not a bad point.
Like the way you termed it.
I do think it adds some extra incentive, however.
No it doesn’t. The Mets (or any team) don’t HAVE to sign bad contracts just because they overpaid in trade (and it wasn’t even really an overpay tbh).
It feels like you just kind of want to argue about semantics.
I an not overly interested in that.
Kinda sounds like you are.
I get what they’re saying Jimthegoat. The pressure for Cohen trading away his only sustainable, viable SS at that position, for the star he was lauded for acquiring by Mets fans would look silly for losing him over 20-30MM.
For instance, look at what everyone said of Cash regarding DJL. I get it, two very different scenarios, but with fandom and NYC, coupled with Cohen’s lack of experience? Yeah, regular GMs overpay to keep guys they traded for, with the heralded “best SS in the game” I’m sure it resonates with him to get him signed.
Also, with the way the fans/analysts repeatedly bring up how money is no object for Cohen because he’s the richest man in MLB? Yeah, I think it’s safe to assume there’s some incentive, even if it’s illogical.
So you are saying Cohen would look silly for not handing out a contract that he knows is bad when there are plenty of other quality shortstops who will be available next offseason?
Jimthegoat: No, I am not saying that. I am saying that is a very common misconception and the point everyone (pro-Mets) is trying to make. Cohen’s perception, and that of is fans/critics would be that he failed (his ego) and the fans would brutalize him because of all the reasons delineated in my post.
That is an observation not my opinions. Nonetheless, it is stil motivation for him because the Cohen Dynasty is aware of all this, which is why they’re offering this much to begin with (that part is my opinion).
No, it’s all your opinion. And as far as casual fans thinking he failed if Lindor ends up being one-and-done, in order to be a good GM, you have to completely tune all of that out. He traded for one year of Lindor. And you could argue that the package he gave up was about fair for one year of Lindor. If the Mets make a deep playoff run and Lindor is at the center of it, they will have gotten what they wanted even if Lindor does move on.
So, my opinion is reading what all the other people are saying about re-signing him? How the hell does that work?
No, it’s a very realistic judgment on an owner – read the opinion articles. Listen to the analysts and players. It’s already there, same as Realmuto. That’s my opinion? Okay…..
You’re conflating what should be with what is; reality with theory; in fact, you’re inserting your OPINION
And yes a good GM tunes that out. Cohen isn’t a GM and he’s not good, he’s brand new.
One point I think you’re missing is that there is always a risk of injury. It’s extremely hard for anyone to turn down a guaranteed $325 million. Even if there’s less than a 1% chance of something happening, that’s not a risk I’d be willing to take when the stakes are that high.
SeltzerM:
Agree that is a factor for some players. The question is, is Lindor the type of player to take the safe offer, or gamble for something bigger?
When the safe offer is $325 million and the something bigger is maybe $2.5 million a year more, it would be an easy choice for me.
Seltzer: You’re objective, and you see that risk, but he’s not risk averse. He’s had good health for the duration of his career, and he’s confident that even if injured, he’d land a deal for at least that given what the market/competition will bring in.
Think about our own choices in situations that mirror this decision-making process on the microcosm level?. How many times do you cash out instead of playing more hands? How often do you speed well over the speed limit, or have driven after a few drinks?
Remember, this is what he knows. To us, it’s 325MM; but to him, it’s less than he deserves and the reward of FA is all bit guaranteed to surpass that mark. He trusts his own abilities (like you driving after drinking, for example), so he’s ultra confident.
Seriously though, don’t drink and drive.
If he can pass up $300MM he’s a much more disciplined man than I’ll ever be.
Mercy.
Ya know?
“So just sign right here? You’ve a pen?”
@Ducky: Maybe he realizes Mets22 will be his biggest fan if he signs and he needs it to be worth it. $325 MM is not.
Which is still much more disciplined than I.
Hell…I’d be mestfan22’s butler for 300 mil.
Man, be careful what you wish for…. he may be at your door in an hour. Saw a movie like that once.
Well…
“WHERE’S MY 300 MIL, MAN!”
Otherwise? Yeah, I’m answering the door with my Colt Commander at hand & threatening to call 911.
1911 is quicker than 911. Make the local call if it’s an pressing conversation about something important to you.
Yeah, I can see this situation happening: He passes up an avg of $32,500,000.00 (10 yr) deal. He gets HBP and breaks his hamate bone and is out of action for a good chunk of the season. Then it’s a completely convoluted situation. Not wanting or wishing this to happen but it’s an improbable possibility. That’s why I stated earlier he needs to figure out how many MILLIONS of dollars per year is enough.
Well if he has another down season like he did last year, or if he gets injured, he could wind up losing money. Otherwise he can force the Mets to overwhelm him the same way Mookie did to the Dodgers, even though Lindor isn’t anywhere near the same level as Mookie.
Mets made a 10 year $325 mil offer tonight
What talent? Amed Rosario? Gimenez?
Yes, I’m referring to Andres Gimenez who looked pretty good as a 21 (turned 22 in Sept) yr old rookie for the Mets and Amad Rosario, who turned 25 in November. The kid is under contract for 6 more yrs and Rosario for 3. That’s not even taking the ’20 2nd rd OF high school kid nor the pitching prospect that I’m drawing a blank on. The Indians got a “little” weaker at SS this year. This move helps them to keep being in contention this year as well as years to come.
A little weaker is the understatement of the year. Replacing Lindor with Gimenez is equivalent to trading in a Tesla for a Prius. As an Indians fan, I can tell you right now – Rosario has no future in Cleveland. He’ll be traded. Gimenez will never generate the power nor be capable of the same defense Lindor provided. There’s just no comparison. And no amount of player control will ever warrant not extending Lindor in Cleveland. The Mets, even for just one year, committed high way robbery and should be arrested. Gimenez, if he ever does become even half as good as Lindor, will also be traded once arbitration comes around.
You mean Francisco Liriano 😉
The trade would be worthless for them if they didn’t
What if they make a deep playoff run and Lindor is their best player in 2021?
Remember Mike Hampton?
Hampton is scumbag. I was working in Crystal River when he signed the contract. He is from there and not a rich town. They asked him to build a new field. He would give 5k only if named field after him.
Mets got a pretty good pitcher out of the deal too. Arguably the second best arm in their rotation.
Inarguably the 10th best hamstring though.
@raisinsss Haha. Absolutely true.
Damn 10/325 is on the table. Gotta think they push it across the line
Maybe 12/350. Lower luxury tax hit, he gets more than Tatis? Lotta money for a guy with just an OK track record the last couple years imo
Tatis is getting 340/14 and Lindors deal is much more expensive from an AAV standpoint which is honesty all that matters.
Lindor is much better and more accomplished as well. Tatis is a rookie, with everything to prove.
this is Jr’s 3rd year. He’s no rookie. He’s proven a whole lot in 2 years. He may still have more to prove. prediction sites disagree that lindor is much better. tatis has better projection numbers so most experts think Jr is better.
So YC, are you trying to say Lindor will blow that contract out of the water?
If you’re just saying it was a dumb deal for SD, I agree. but if you’re trying to imply Lindor will handily beat 340, I don’t see that happening. I don’t think he does, or deserves, to get to the 360M+ mark
Tatis has played 142 games. He’s all but officially a rookie. Injuries and a lack of games don’t equate to time he’s proven he can adjust to MLB pitchers
Apparently Tatis proved enough to get 340M, more than what the Mets just offered Lindor, and Tatis’ contract includes his arb years on the cheap.
Just because Preller does something doesn’t mean it actually was a good baseball move
He got the 3rd largest deal EVER when 4 of the 14 years were supposed to be an extreme discount. Just sounds like your GM overpaid the market.
No @Lurking, I’m suggesting that Lindor sees he is more accomplished and therefore in HIS eyes he deserves more and will not take the same or less. That’s all. I agree with you, personally.
Totally see what you’re saying @YC. Will be interesting to see if Cohen blinks and raises the offer or if he holds firm
Lurk: I’ve said this before the Bauer incident; Cohen is a money man; he doesn’t like being pressured. He’s the one in charge and I don’t think anyone is as important to please as his own ego. Cross that, which Bauer did and Lindor is doing, I’m not sure he can handle that interaction. We will see, and I hope I’m wrong.
I’ve worked with many like him, they are all very similar in that way. If they perceive you taking control and giving an ultimatum, the line is drawn in the sand and they expect you to bow first. Lifetime baseball execs are unique because they’ve experienced that part of the business, so it’s expected. Cohen is not a lifetime baseball executive though.
I was a fly on the wall at the dinner table. Cohen said “In my eyes your services are worth $32,500,000.00 per yr for 10 yrs. Now it’s up to you. You need to figure out how many MILLIONS your ego needs.” Then they split the bill and left going in separate directions. To Be Continued… Stay tuned for the next chapter of “Frankie in New York: Will he stay or will he go?”
What’s he got to prove? He already signed a 14 year contract.
Simple, that he’s worth it
All that “should” matter maybe. But if you don’t think players care about total dollars, I couldn’t disagree more. Harper got more than Manny despite the aav. Mookie got more than both. Tatis got more than Harper and manny to sign. You think that is all coincidental?
For Lindor to sign away his FA chance, I fully expect it to take at least 341M. And really I think he’s holding out trying to beat Betts and Trout. I think that’s laughable to put Lindor with those 2, but I digress
Yeah he’s not near worth these amounts but he thinks he is and some team will be willing to pay it, I just hope the Mets don’t… I would’ve stuck w 10/300 but I’m in the minority who don’t see Lindor as elite on the level with the likes of trout and Betts… I don’t even think he’s the best SS anymore and the numbers back me up (unless you overvalue defense)
I do not think it’s a guarantee a team is willing to pay him more than 325. There’s FOUR other star options on the market. He’s not the only option. Teams will use these guys against each other to keep the bids down
Teams overpay when they have no alternative options. This market is going to be flush with options. He needs a great 2021 to see 325 imho
@Lurking if that were true they wouldn’t have offered him $325m when they have the captive market.
I don’t think anything is guaranteed next offseason.
@Jim, that’s just wrong. You’re 100% on point with the sunken cost fallacy. However, Owners overpay the market all the time
My opinion doesn’t change the Mets offer. I’m just saying, I struggle to see any team giving a SS more than 330M (Harper $) when there’s 4 other options to choose from. Manny+Harper got their money not only as the best option at their position that year, but the best option for the next handful of years. That’s just not the case when the market is flooded with 4 stars and 3 or more additional starting options
Cohen may choose to overpay to avoid the open market risk. He may be afraid the Yankees or Dodgers offer 1M more. But again. That doesn’t guarantee another team is waiting there with 325+. Cohen just THINKS another team MAY be there
@Lurking, if Lindor isn’t going to get more than $330m, why did the Mets trade for him just to offer him $325m? Was having a chance at not having to pay that extra $5m really worth giving up all those young players?
Jim I most certainly will answer. You didn’t prove anything
What’s most ridiculous about your claim is I know you don’t even believe what you’re saying. I just agreed with you the trade package should have no bearing on his next deal, then you try to come at me with the “well why’d they trade all that talent if they are only saving 5M BS??” Laughable
You know that package paid for 2021. I can quote a post from you on THIS thread, with you stating this fact. Drop the act
The Mets think they have a price point for Lindor. They’re likely going off Tatis setting the market. That’s their prerogative. They are free to do what they want. Doesn’t change my opinion. I didn’t agree with the Tatis deal but it still exists. I do not think that will set the market, because SD went crazy. But that’s opinion until it’s disproven
I still believe that no SS will get 325M or 330M next year. Because the market will be flooded with shortstops, and supply and demand indicates the market is way more likely to decline than it is to expand. I know you understand these principles. If you understand sunken cost fallacy you must understand supply and demand
Your huffing and puffing proves nothing. Nothing will be proven until the next free agent period, when my claim can be tested. If the Mets bid against themselves in the next 48 hours, that’s their problem. Doenst mean the dodgers and Yankees were 100% also at that level of interest.
The Mets are guessing at those teams’ Lindor interest. They are guessing at the market for Seager and Baez and Story and Correa. If they knew what the specific price points for those 5 guys will be in FA, there would be much bigger issues with collusion. A contract on the table in March doesnt mean that more money is waiting for him at the end of the year. Just ask JTR
@Lurking there’s no point in extending a guy if you’re just going to pay him market value. If the Mets were willing to pay THAT kind of money they’d have been better off waiting a year and signing him as a FA. Unless of course they are ok with giving up that package for just one year of Lindor in which case they can knock themselves out. But if you are correct about no shortstop getting $325+ in FA this winter then it would be pretty dang stupid of them to offer him that when they have the captive market. Or to trade for him just so they could offer him that 8 months early.
And yes, I think it’s been well established that trading for Realmuto was a bad idea for Philly. He would have signed there anyway, as evidenced by no one else even coming close to their offer. And I don’t wanna hear about how they might not have offered him $115.5m if they hadn’t traded for him first. All that would mean is that they fumbled their opportunity to sign him, not that that opportunity was never there to begin with.
I don’t care what it says about the Mets logic. Unless Lindor has a massive year on both sides of the ball, I don’t see any other team going 325
You can say it was Cohen wanting to make a splash. Maybe he overpaid when he lost Bauer+Springer. I don’t care what narrative you cling to. But just because Cohen is offering 10/325, doesnt mean another team is offering it in 8 months. It just doesn’t
It wouldn’t shock me if the Phillies offered more money pre 2020 than the 115.1 JTR got. Things change. There’s no guarantee another team is bidding at the same level. And offers get pulled. They don’t just sit there forever
Seager isn’t getting more than 10 years imo, and he’s been my guy since he was drafted. The injury risk and the necessity to move to 3B eventually will hold it down. 9 years, 33 Max? If he gets 10 years I fully expect it to be in line with Machado+ Tatis’s FA Money (10/306)
Story/Baez/Correa imo all get less than 150 M, and I’m not sure any type of crazy 2021 really moves that number much in my opinion
Jim, Who’s the 330M man? Who’s signing those checks? I don’t see it. Explain your opinion
@Lurking I’m not clinging to any narrative. If no one is going to go to $325m when Frankie is a free agent next year there is no reason for the Mets to do it now. The whole point of the captive market is to get a guy on the cheap. And if the Phillies offered JT more than $115.5m before he was a FA I would say the exact same thing for them.
I cannot believe how effective Lindor’s public relations effort has been over the years. The flash is far more than the substance; anyone who has watched him closely over the last two years knows that. Despite declining as a player, he managed to increase his reputation as a player. That anyone can truly think Lindor is as good as Tatis Jr. is ridiculous, much less Corey Seager (Lindor never had a stretch like Seager had this postseason).. It would be lunacy for the Mets to outbid themselves now when they (1) don’t have any clue how Lindor will do in the bright lights of NY and (2) will have numerous excellent options at SS next winter.
This is a great point Avory. Obviously there is something there. But I do think he’s #1 SS in the game right now – trust me I know many disagree. I also believe after this year, when he doesn’t perform as well, he’s going to drop out of the top 3 (complete conjecture on my part). He could also perform like a rockstar and secure 500MM (not really) and his #1 spot. Time will tell.
YANKEES BOUND???
I wish @Tursk but not happening. Yankees probably looking at Seager another lefty. Can the Mets even afford Lindor, Conforto, Alonso, and Thor?
They won’t sign every player heading toward free agency. They’ll need to make choices. They have time with Alonso. They will have to deal with deGrom and his out out before Alonso. He’ll be looking for an AAV in the $40M range on his reworked deal.
Hey, mlbnyy…. I left you a response on the last Yankee article thread. I reread my post, that wasn’t directed at you, but I worded it poorly. Go back and read if you’d like to, but it was my bad on wording it that way. Anyway, hopefully it provides context. I’m on two hours sleep in 48 hours so, I’m not at peak performance, lol.
@Tusrk
Ahahahaha! Yea, thanks, but No thanks.
Of course. Every FA is going to be a Yankee. Surprised MLB doesn’t change the rules so they can have 50 on their active roster to sign ALL the free agents.
They’re working on it in the next CBA. What a maroon!
The Maroons actually played in St. Louis.
Lol, yes they did @bbpun, nice call!
So, the teams MVP was their Ultra Maroon?
While it wouldn’t surprise me if Lindor signs, he has always intended to try out free agency, and to sign mere hours before that personal goal is reached….
I dont know what the final Mets offer is, or will be, but its a good bet that it will be matched or exceeded next winter, and Lindor would have the final say as to where he would spend the rest of his career out of multiple options.
I don’t know how a good a bet it is that he can do better next winter. What if he gets hurt this year? Or has a down season? Hard to say no to $300+ million in hand right now.
@baseballpun If he won’t do better next season why are they in such a rush to extend him now?
Both sides have risk. Mets are hoping they can sign him for less now than it would cost them later. If Lindor passes up $325M now he could be risking falling short of that later. I bet the $325m means a lot more to Lindor, though.
@baseballpun so you admit he will get more than $325m later?
Surprised 10/325 didn’t get it done already. Maybe he wants to be signed through his age 38 or 39 season but he shouldn’t get much more guaranteed total money.
Lindor would be an idiot to decline that
Not if he can get more. Which he can.
How much more though, realistically? There’s risk in turning this down, too. $325m in the hand is worth more than $350m in the bush.
10 years, $325 million falls just $5 million shy of Bryce Harper’s contract with the Phillies and he got 13 total years. If 10/$325 is what was offered to Lindor, he should take it. The only way I see him getting more is if he finishes like top 3 in MVP voting.
Probably not the way Lindor and his agent view this scenario though, you must admit.
Agree, lot further to fall than climb in this rarified air
As a Mets fan no way I want him him in age 36 then age 37 at $30m per season. Maybe $15m and the rest deferred. Too many great SS will be free agents this winter. Not all will get this type of money for 10 years.
Well that’s what it’s gonna take.
When Lindor is 36, $30m per season won’t be as much as it is now.
Yeah it’ll only be about .2 BTC.
These numbers are so absurd these days. It really all comes down to the money these teams make off the TV deals. I keep tuning into convos on Boomer and Gio in the morning on how frustrating it is that they can’t get the specific games they want at this point in time with all the streaming services that are available these days. And it all comes down to the localized TV deals that are built into peoples cable packages that don’t even watch sports. I wonder if that will ever really be exposed or changed. It really is crazy the length I have to go to in order to watch the Yankees sometimes and I’m willing to pay for the services to get them but even sometimes everything is blacked out and I’m in NY.
But the owners still make loads of profit and the players get just a splash of that.
Oh it def will soon…..the old way of watching Tv will slowly go the way of the Dodo –
You’ll probably get options to watch all your home teams games anywhere from 19-29 dollars Id Imagine…pretty good deal
What you are all not factoring is the Lindor factor. He’s just not very smart and his agent has done him a disservice from the very beginning. In the end, it’s Lindor’s decision and he’s not going to sign because he’s greedy to the nth degree.
Lindor and his agent turned down a seven-year, $100MM extension offer four years ago. He has $325MM on the table at the moment. I would not call that doing Lindor a “disservice.”
“He’s just not very smart,” wow, are you his psychiatrist?
Pretty funny to me how Mets fans seem to think they can just extend whoever they want because “Steve Cohen” or whatever. Lindor, Conforto, Syndergaard, Stroman, etc.
Like I said before, if they wanted to extend him that bad, they should have made the trade contingent on an extension (like the Reds with Sonny Gray or the Blue Jays with R. A. Dickey). If you trade for a player then just assume that an extension will happen later, you are much more likely to end up looking like the Phillies with J. T. Realmuto.
Jim: Have you not paid attention this year?! Mets will win the NLE because COHEN. Mets will buy every FA – COHEN. Mets will never let Lindor hit FA, because…… you guessed it, COHEN!
And finally, Mets will win the World Series and become the next former Yankees dynasty, because Cohen.
What Mets fan actually thinks that? 10 years and 325 million should be the final offer. “Take it or leave it” Mets fans and everyone else for that matter have No clue how Lindor can handle and play in NY for certain. Do I think he will be fine? yes I personally do but anything can happen. Cohen isn’t going to just give every free agent the most money when competing for their services. Even The richest owner has limits on what he thinks is a more then fair and adequate deal. Lindor must be really confident in himself if he actually leaves 10 and 325 on the table and goes into the season without an extension.
Go back and read the Mets fans all over the previous discussions around the time of the Lindor trade. It will make your head hurt and your eyes bleed, but those Mets fans. They’re still here, which is why you were the only one to respond. Lol.
That’s precisely what I said last week while pointing out the Pedro trade was contingent on a contract extension. If a team is in GFIN mode then I guess that justifies the risk of giving up a talented package for a one-year rental, but I honestly don’t see the Mets as serious contenders this year. Not with SD and LAD among others.
Mats just need to add $16 million to their current contract offer. 10 years and $341 million will do it. He just wants to beat Tatis.
The Mets traded Matz already
They offered $325 – Cohen isn’t the type to be pushed around for a few extra dollars. If Lindor isn’t careful, this will quickly become about egos and that will leave Lindor without a job – albeit, very, very temporarily next offseason.
Yankee Clipper:
Not sure how he’s going to be out of a job at any time if he rejects this offer. Should he reject it, he’ll be a Met in 2021 and play in 2022 for whomever signs him next off-season.
Yep, hence my last sentence, if you read it.
Well I did read it, and still didn’t see any difference from every single other MLB player. All of them will be temporarily unemployed as well because of the off-season. What’s the point of making that statement?
Just pulling your chain a bit.
Keep pulling, it’s almost there. I was hitting ya back, I saw you being a wiseass… I know you’re smart enough to know what I was writin’
Yep. Just having a little fun.
I hope he declines it just so we can see what kind of season he has after doing so lol.
Lindor is delusional for declining 325 mil. His OPS+ the last 2 seasons has been very meh. He is a top 25 player in baseball but not top 10 despite what the media tells you.
amk1920:
Top 10? Apples and oranges. He’s the top SS IMO, and that’s a critical position. Yeah, someone like Alonso will hit a lot more HRs, but his value at 1B pales in comparison to Lindor’s at SS.
Since 2017, he leads all shortstops in fWAR at 19.7. Next closest is Xander Bogaerts at 16.8. He’s also 4th in wOBA, 6th in wRC+, 2nd in home runs, and 4th in OPS among all shortstops in that time as well. The only shortstop to have a higher UZR/150 and range runs above average than him is Andrelton Simmons. Among shortstops, you’re talking about a top 3 defender with a top 5 bat at the position. He’ll consistently give you a 115-120 wRC+, but 35 home runs, 40 doubles, 20 stolen bases, an fWAR around 6 and some of the best defense you’ll get at the position.
mlb1225
Excellent post.
All you do by quoting 2017 is eliminate Seager intentionally from all the counting stats, just to make Lindor sound better against the market
Teams care a helluva lot more about the last 2-3 years, than “ignore just the last 2, but combined the last 5 he was great!”
But doesnt hit in the playoffs
Lurking:
No doubt Seager is a better hitter, But Lindor is an exceptional defender, and Seager is below average with the glove. SS is such a critical position defensively, and the Dodgers would probably be a better team with Lindor, since they get plenty of offensive from other positions.
@mlb1225 where does he rank in bOFA though? That is a much better predictor of future performance.
@MLB. That’s what he’s done previously. They would be smart to pay him for what he’ll do going forward. Personally i’m not sold on giving him a mega contract. Just don’t believe in the guy beyond 5 years. I’d be a hard pass if he turns down this offer. That said- I think Cohen will add 10-15 more and the deal gets done. Maybe 12 /350
Tad, last 3 years of Seager’s DRS. -1, -1,-2. Thats 12th, 14th and 19th when you change from qualified to 1300+ innings for 2018 at SS. In 2017, he was +7. Lindor has been +3(2020), +9, +6 in the last 3 years
2018-2020 is Seager recovering from hip AND Tommy John surgery, and he’s still middle of the pack
No one would argue that Seager is better defensively Lindor, of course, but how much of a gap does that make up? 50 OPS+ points? Lindors defensive greatness is quite overblown honestly
OK? I never said Alonso was better. Lindor is just overhyped. There are plenty of SS just as good as him like Seager, Story and Turner. If this was 10 years ago sure Lindor would be the best by far. But we are in the golden age of SS and he hasn’t had the production of his peers the last 2 seasons. Lidnor fans always say “well if you go back the past 4-5 seasons he is great”. That’s nice now do since 2019.
amk1920:
No, you’re wrong that the guys you’ve listed are a good as Lindor. Lindor is top 5 with the bat and top 2 with the glove. Seager, while a better hitter is a below average defender. Turner is a good fielder, and he and Lindor are similar hitters, both have a career a 118 wRC+, but his glove is not in Lindor’s class. Turner has 9 DRS, while Lindor has 38. Story is an excellent fielder, but don’t be fooled by Coors Field stats. By park-adjusted stats Lindor is shown to be a 4% better hitter than Story. Story is the only one comparable.
Lindor’s better defense doesn’t make up the 50 point OPS+ gap from Seager lol. I’ll take my chances with Turner and Seager in the field and take their superior bats.
It’s nice when the numbers line up with my opinions haha
If Seager was a horrible butcher, -20+ DRS. Or Lindor was all worldly +25 or more. Fine maybe it’s a large part of the convo.
Or better if Lindor is putting up a 125 OPS+ while having +10 to +20 DRS year. But he’s not. I really think a lot of people have not taken the time to look at Lindors numbers. And not just 2020. He’s a fantastic player. But he’s nothing close to Mookie or Trout and sure wants to be paid like they are
Trout definitely sold himself short. Mookie you could argue as well. Lindor clearly isn’t the type to sell himself short.
Will you retract your statement when he gets more that 325?
Lindor over estimates his value. Even on the Indians he never carried them on his bat the way the great ones do. Fine player , a star and he will get paid. But he is not worth what he thinks he is.
@In nurse follars Maybe he just wants to go to FA unless he’s absolutely blown away by an offer. It’s likely he’ll get a similar offer in FA, probably from the Mets.
I have not read any comments on here yet but I have to say if it’s near 400 then I’m OK with just one year of Lindor.
I love him as a player but he’s definitely no Mike Trout or Betts for that matter.
Only thing I can think of is if he wants 400 from the Mets he does not want to be here unless there’s an overpay. Therefore let him walk.
@Cohens_Wallet Here’s the thing about his ask: Why not go for a crazy offer now? He wants to test FA anyway. The Mets will likely offer him 325 again next year. So why not see if you can get the best possible offer now? It doesn’t hurt him at all. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to be a Met. It just means he wants to test FA. If it’s not done now, it’ll likely happen next offseason. I say Mets get him in the 330-340 range, but they’ll likely wait until next offseason. No big deal.
Is Martino working for the NY organizations? This is the second report from him that seems to benefit the team. In this case, if Lindor isn’t signed, the Mets can say they tried.
If you are asking if a NY beat writer has connections with the team, the answer is duh. This is how the media works. He gets “the scoop” and the team leaks a story that paints them in a good light
Agents do the exact same
Yes Martino does. That’s how he makes his living, quite literally. He probably adds some spin here and there for promises of stories first or interviews and other similar perks at times as well.
Martino no longer works directly for the Mets. The Wilponzis kept — along with their coninvestors Comcast and Spectrum — SNY when the Mets were sold. And Martino works for them, not the Mets or Steve Cohen.
This also means that through 2030, when the current TV deal ends, the Mets will get a below-industry average for their TV rights.
Wow, that’s pretty interesting. Below average for their TV rights…… in the Mets favor, or the TV company’s? I didn’t know that either way though.
10 years got to be the limit…my guess was 9yr $303 mil ($33 mill AAV)…the 12 yr counter and the 10 yr offer run along the AAV line…but who wants to be paying a 39yr old SS $33 mill…sorry, Mets get him at reasonable cost this year ($23 mill) and shop for their $ SS need next year
You do realize you can pay a player more early in the contract so you only pay him 15M in the last year, right?
I think Cliff Floyd’s contract pays his grandchildren until they die in old age.
Tim Healey Reporting Lindor countered to the Mets “385 Million Over 12 years” Lmfaoooo get outa here. Frankie don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
Kids got his mind made up. He’s not going to re-sign. He’s said all the right things, but he’s planning on going to he west coast and joining the Angels in the off season.
325 Million to play baseball in NYC for the next 10 years, if he doesn’t jump on that he makes Honey Boo Boo look like Elon Musk!
caprabuzz:
You’re vastly overvaluing the benefits of playing in NYC.
@ cap
I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make here.
If anything playing in New York makes the Mets have to overpay considering the tax situation in New York, which would cost Lindor multi millions over the course of the deal.
My question is why did they wait so long to make offers? They should’ve began those talks as soon as he was introduced, if not before
Actually they should have made the trade contingent on an extension
Not happening
Corey Seager is definitely going to test the FA market. If Lindor is extended I think LA does whatever it takes to re-sign him, But, if Lindor is not extended, would the Dodgers prefer Lindor to Seager? Seager is the better hitter, but he’s not that great with the glove, while Lindor is exceptional. Could that be a factor? It could mean the possibility of Lindor exceeding that 10/325.
The Dodgers aren’t signing lindor that would be stupid to pay 40 times more when they can have Lux for 1/40th of lindors salary.
I don’t think they’re re signing seager either.
Unless it’s like an 8 year $240 deal. But I’m sure Seager will get around 300-$330 from the Yankees or Mets.
1/40th? So if Lindor gets 12/$340m (figure I pulled out of you-know-where for the sake of easily divisible numbers) you think Seager is going to sign for 12/$8.5m?
He said Lux buddy
BIG oof on my part.
And Lindor is a proven game changer while Lux has very real bust potential is the reason why they would do that.
Okay, so Mets (Cohen) said 10/$325 is Best & Final. Lindor countered Mets best and final at 12/385. Y’all still confident he re-signs with your team and doesn’t dip his toe in the lukewarm tub of FA? Still time to walk back some comments……. I mean, it’s all but literally written out; but you can double down I guess, if you want to.
Mets22? You’re crazy enough to say Cohen and Lindor will come to terms….. anything?
In no way am I a met fan. But…. the only thing they have going with those 2 offers is Lindor didn’t ask for a higher AAV. It’s actually a touch lower
I still think 12/350 would get it done. But how much does Cohen really want to bet against himself with 4 stars waiting on the market?
Yeah, that’s very true. I wouldn’t, but that’s also easy to say since I’m not in the biz’. I’d wait and jump in the frenzy next offseason, but the Mets boards lit up with guarantees of Lindor staying ‘til he’s 83.5 or some such nonsense. Just checking the pulse on here…..
Gotta keeps tabs on our tiny little red-headed step-bros in Queens!
I still think they do, but if they don’t it’s not the Mets fault at all.
2 things will happen:
1. Mets won’t resign Lindor.
2. Lindor will get less in Free Agency than the Mets offered.
Why? because Lindor is currently a Met and the Mets are currently still the Mets and “Mets are gonna Mets” lol
That’s what braves fans keep telling themselves bc they know the Mets have a better roster.
Mets 22!!!! What’s up, man?! What if Ali doe doesn’t come back? Are the Mets still the best team but only by 10 cubits instead of 50? I’m not sure how this measurement works bro.
BTW, Los Bravos are the top team in the NLE…… just sayin’.
Both Braves and Mets have better rosters than Yankees
no, but they will bring him back in free agency in the end
He will be stupid not to accept this fair offer. If he gets badly hurt this year than he can say goodbye to millions.
He will be stupid not to accept this fair offer. If he gets badly hurt this year than he can say goodbye to millions.
@Bengie Why will he be stupid? Cohen talked a big game about all his money. Time to put his money where his mouth is. Lindor is betting on himself. If Cohen doesn’t give him 330+ maybe some other team will.
Cohen has the money for sure. I would make a final take it or leave it offer of $350 million for 10 years for Lindor. If he doesn’t take it, there are a lot of free agent shortstops at the end of the year that would take that offer. No worries for the Mets.
The Cohen Dynasty’s last offer (10/325) was the take it or leave it, my friend. This is quite the conundrum for the Mets fans. It seemed so easy to spend Cohen’s money before he was actually, you know, doing baseball stuff. Now, with all the public proclamations, it’s a bit embarrassing, as you can only imagine because you’re a Yankee fan – we don’t pee our pants in public like this!
Also, Yankee4Life, would you go that much for Lindor? I don’t think I would. I sure hope the Yankees don’t in FA. Much better off with stud Seager for the same #years and less money, particularly with Seager being…. 26, I believe.
@Yankee Clipper- I definitely would offer that 10 year, $350 million dollar contract to Lindor if I was the Mets. They gave up really good prospects to get him. I don’t like 10,11 or 12 year contracts at all. But 10 years is fine for Lindor who is only 27 years old. With the Yankees I really don’t see a fit with Voit here. Unless he is traded, and Gleyber moves to 2nd and DJ plays lst. I look at Trevor Story as a better fit with the Yankees because he will cheaper then Lindor. Seager is interesting though. I wonder what his price tag will be? I think Frankie will sign that extension with the Mets around the All-Star break. Even though he is saying he won’t sign mid-season. It all depends upon his lst year with the Mets and how he is playing in NY, which obviously is a different animal, which you definitely understand. We’ll see Bro.
@Yankee-4-Life 75…
“I definitely would offer that 10 year, $350 million dollar contract to Lindor if I was the Mets. They gave up really good prospects to get him.”
That is a sunk cost fallacy. The prospects they gave up aren’t coming back. Lindor’s value is dependent on his expected future production, not the fact that the Mets gave up good prospects to get him.
10 years, 350M
Ridiculous, this guys worth 8 years $160MM.
Anything else would be a waste.
That’s why the Dodgers are perennial power houses they don’t get caught up with stupid ass deals like this.
Kershaw, best pitcher still signed a modest contract.
Mookie betts is an MVP, x2 champion and a leader so he deserves the cash.
Mets would be stupid to overpay for a guy who will decline in 2.5 years with a great smile.
They did grossly overpay for Bauer……but just for two years.
Great news Mets fans. You are going to extend Lindor. If the reports are true, and they are stupid enough to offer 325 for 10 years then they are stupid enough to offer 350 for 12 or slightly more. If not then Lindor would be stupid not to take the 325 so the mets can go to 10 and 330 so he can save face.
I wasn’t sure he was a good fit with the Mets when the trade was announced. But now that he has validated that he’s the biggest idiot in baseball, he is definitely a perfect fit for the Mets. If he doesn’t sign this deal it will most definitely go down as the single dumbest decision ever made by a baseball player. He’s not getting 300 million next year with a ton of top SS on the market. I don’t know what he and his agent are on, but it must be some solid stuff. He’s coming off a down year and his career WAR is almost identical to Correa’s despite that dude always being injured. Moronic.
By the time the new deal kicks in, he’ll be 28 years old. If the Mets are cornered into a 12 year deal, those last 3-4 years at more $30M+ are going to hurt.
I like Lindor, but he has the Mets bent over a barrel. They can’t lose him after just one year. How many MLB players are worth $30M? Mookie got 12 years going through age 39 years. Is Lindor worth Mookie money?
The Mets aren’t bent over. There’s no way another team would outbid what they already offered. Although the Mets may be bending themselves over if they keep bidding against themselves.
@neurogame Sure they can lose him after just one year. The Cubs lost Chapman after just one year. The Padres lost Justin Upton after just one year. The Dodgers lost Manny Machado after just TWO MONTHS.
@jimthegoat –
Hmmm….. I shouldn’t have expected anyone to read into the phrasing of my statement. “Yes,” of course the Mets can lose Lindor after one year just as I could lose my phone when I’m grocery shopping. But can either party AFFORD to lose said items?
Also, the players you mentioned (Chapman, Upton and Machado) were not in the long term plans of the franchises who traded for them. Even the Padres gave Upton a qualifying offer knowing that he would decline for a larger contract, allowing San Diego to re-coup a draft pick. The Cubs won a World Series with Chapman and that was good enough for them to let him walk, Chapman also openly complained about how he disliked the way Maddon used him in the post season. Neither Chapman nor the Cubs favored a reunion. And Machado..,. he wore out his welcome, at least with the fans. Cory Seager was going to return to Shortstop the following year and Justin Turner is a beloved and productive player in LA. These three were rentals. Lindor has yet to even play a meaningful game as a Met.
Bravo to him trying to extract as much dollar$ as he can from an organization who gave up semi-good prospects and players for him. He’s betting on himself to play All-Star caliber in a different league and coming off a down year. Although last season was an anomaly, he’s flopped in two out of his four post seasons appearances.
@neurogame…
Sure the Mets can afford to lose Lindor. Just like how the Cubs, Padres and Dodgers could afford to lose Chapman, Upton and Machado.
If Upton wasn’t part of the Padres’ long-term plans how come dozens of articles were printed in 2015 saying they wanted to extend him? Answer me that. And of course they gave him a qualifying offer. When you have a player that good become a FA and you are allowed to QO him, you do it, regardless of whether or not you plan to keep him around. It’s pretty certain that Lindor will receive a QO after this season if he isn’t extended by then.
If the Mets win a WS in 2021 wouldn’t that also be good enough for them to let him walk?
Machado wore out no welcome. He has been beloved by teammates and fans everywhere he has been. Although it is true that the Dodgers didn’t need him for more than just 2018. They weren’t even mentioned as a possible trade suitor until Seager got hurt.
Lindor is also a rental. He had one year of control left when he was traded. Everyone knew it. If he wasn’t a rental, the Mets would have made the trade contingent on an extension.
I disagree with you on everything you wrote above. I don’t believe anything we say to each other is going to change the other’s view on what happened and what has been transpiring.
But to “answer you [that]” with regards to Upton, even though his stats weren’t great, he was the most productive player on an underachieving sub.500/2015 Padres team, one that was put together by the Matt kemp dubbed “GM Rockstar.” They would need to pay their best player some major money when they would be re-building since the roster didn’t work out.
And those “dozens of articles” you mentioned about extending him were largely written before the season or very early on in its inception. Upton was not a good fit for where the Padres were in their build to win and since much of Preller’s reputation lies in his ability to evaluate young talent, the organization opted for draft pick compensation.
mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/mets-padres-stalled-in-…
mlb.com/padres/news/unmet-expecations-padres-2015-…
I can’t even begin to digress on what you wrote about Machado and Lindor as this post will get too long. Machado, as talented as he is, would turn doubles into singles and his hustle seemed to wane if he felt the game was out of reach. Again, I feel like you & I are set in our ways with these topics so I don’t believe it will be a productive discussion.
It doesn’t matter when those articles were written. They wanted to extend Upton – they failed.
And nothing is wrong with Manny’s hustle or attitude.
As I related earlier, this conversation is not productive. I don’t agree with you at all, as you with me.
There’s no agreeing or disagreeing with the facts fam.
Mets should stop negotiating. 12 years is silly
That and no other team would go
over $300 million in the off-season. They’re already bidding against themselves
I agree and I think many do. The Mets bid against themselves on this one. I can see teams paying this much, but don’t think they will. Moreover, this endeavor is encouraging for many teams in the offseason because all teams see what the Mets “final best offer” is. They know exactly what that line is.
Won’t take 10 and wants 12?!? I’ve never seen a team regret NOT signing players to big contracts.
As dumb as Lindor was in Cleveland for not signing an extension, he’ll prove even dumber in NY when he doesn’t sign an extension. Prediction: HE IS NOT SIGNING !
There’s no chance another team gives him over $300 this offseason. The market just isn’t there and the position is stacked.
@bush1 There’s definitely a chance. With fans back in the stands (albeit on a limited basis) team revenues may be up again. Some teams will be willing to spend.
I don’t see it.
Hampton is scumbag. I was working in Crystal River when he signed the contract. He is from there and not a rich town. They asked him to build a new field. He would give 5k only if named field after him.
Anything more than 6 years and $200M and the Mets will probably regret it.
and you guys out here support the players when it comes to salaries…truly comical.
It’s a trick question. Yes he will be extended but not till the season is over. 12 years in baseball is an absolute epoch. We’re gonna have flying cars by then lol 400 million? Wayyyy too much. Let him go if he gives you an ultimatum
No point in signing an extension when the season is over really. At least if he does it now it eliminates the risk of injury or poor performance hurting his earning potential.
Singing this type of contract will cripple the Mets payroll flexibility for a decade if the next CBA looks anything like the current one with a CBT.
Lindor is not the type of player to carry a team. He will not provide surplus value on the contract bc it’s too much for too long. The best longterm outcome for the Mets is if he turns it down and they sign another of the very good FA SS.