The Mets have made their first huge deal of the Steve Cohen era, acquiring shortstop Francisco Lindor and right-hander Carlos Carrasco from the Indians as part of a six-player trade. To replace their star shortstop, Cleveland will receive two prominent young infielders in Amed Rosario and Andres Gimenez and a pair of Mets prospects — right-hander Josh Wolf and outfielder Isaiah Greene.
It has been widely assumed that Lindor would be on the move at some point this offseason, as the Tribe is looking to cut payroll and Lindor is now entering his final season before free agency. The Mets have been one of many teams mentioned as a plausible suitor, though comments made by both new owner Cohen and team president Sandy Alderson implied that the Mets would be more apt to sign big-name players rather than trade for them, due to a lack of minor league depth in New York’s farm system.
Instead, Alderson and new Mets GM Jared Porter have now swung a major blockbuster. Financial terms of the deal haven’t yet been made public, but it’s safe to assume the Mets are picking up all of the $27MM owed to Carrasco through the 2022 season. Between Carrasco’s contract and Lindor’s projected salary (between $17.5MM and $21.5MM) in his final year of arbitration, Cohen’s willingness to spend manifested itself in a different way, as the Mets will now upgrade their roster by taking some salaries off the books of the cost-cutting Cleveland organization.
Since his debut in 2015, no shortstop in baseball has a higher fWAR (28.9) than Lindor. A four-time All-Star with two Gold Gloves and two Silver Slugger Awards, Lindor has hit .285/.346/.488 with 138 home runs over his six big league seasons, and further established himself as an all-around talent by stealing 99 bases. 2020 was a down year for Lindor, as he hit only .258/.335/.415 over a league-high 266 PA, but that would certainly be explained by the unusual nature of the shortened season rather than a clear sign of a decline.
It is also fair to wonder if Lindor might have been impacted by the trade speculation that has been swirling around him for the better part of three years. After some early-career extension talks with the Tribe failed to lead to a deal, it became increasingly clear that Cleveland would look to trade Lindor rather than just let him walk in free agency. Indians owner Paul Dolan said in 2019 that his team didn’t have the resources to invest heavily in a single player, and rather notoriously told Cleveland fans to “enjoy [Lindor] and then we’ll see what happens.”
Lindor now becomes the centerpiece of an already-strong Mets lineup, as he will step in as the everyday shortstop. Luis Guillorme looks like New York’s top backstop shortstop option now that Rosario and Gimenez are gone, though Jose Peraza and Wilfredo Tovar are also on hand. The Mets could look to add another veteran utility infield type prior to Opening Day, though Jeff McNeil’s ability to play multiple positions gives them some cover in that respect.
We also shouldn’t assume that the Mets are anywhere near done with major moves, of course. The club has already signed James McCann and Trevor May in free agency, retained Marcus Stroman via the qualifying offer, and such big names as George Springer and Trevor Bauer are also known to be free agent targets for Alderson and company. Since the Mets are still roughly $32MM short of the $210 luxury tax threshold, at least one more pricey contract could certainly be added, and possibly more if the club moved some other salary in a trade, or was willing to take a one-year tax hit for exceeding the threshold.
Carrasco joins Stroman and ace Jacob deGrom in a strong 1-2-3 punch atop the New York rotation. If rookie David Peterson can continue his 2020 performance over a full season and Noah Syndergaard is in form during his midseason return from Tommy John surgery rehab, the Mets could very well have one of the sport’s top starting fives. On the flip side, given the uncertainty of Syndergaard’s health, how Stroman will look after opting out of the 2020 season, and the possibility of a sophomore slump for Peterson, this same rotation carries some questions that now aren’t as glaring with a solid veteran like Carrasco in the fold.
Carrasco’s salary made him a natural trade candidate, and today’s news ends his 11-season run as a beloved favorite for both Cleveland’s fans and within the Tribe’s locker room. Carrasco posted a 3.77 ERA, 25.5 K%, and 19.2 K-BB% over his 1242 1/3 innings in an Indians uniform, highlighted by a 2017 season that saw him finish fourth in AL Cy Young Award voting.
After missing almost three months of the 2019 season due to a leukemia diagnosis, Carrasco made an emotional return to the field that September, and then looked to be fully back during a 2020 season that saw him post a 2.91 ERA, 29.3 K%, and 19.6% K-BB% over 68 frames. His 9.6 BB% is a bit of a red flag, and his highest total in the category since his 2009 rookie season, though this could again be a by-product of the small 2020 sample size.
It was less than four years ago that Rosario was a consensus top-10 prospect in baseball, and between his young age (25) and the flashes he has shown over four MLB seasons, it isn’t out of the question that he can still fulfill that potential with a change of scenery. Rosario looked to be breaking out in 2019, when he hit .322/.353/.453 over his final 372 plate appearances of the season, but he managed just a .252/.272/.371 slash line in 147 PA in 2020.
As it happened, Gimenez received more playing time ahead of Rosario, and Gimenez responded with a .263/.333/.398 slash in his first 132 plate appearances as a major leaguer. A former top-100 prospect himself, Gimenez is considered a better defender than Rosario and might be Cleveland’s preferred choice at shortstop, with Rosario perhaps moving into the second base vacancy left open by free agent Cesar Hernandez. Since Rosario has been considered to have multi-position capability, the Tribe could also move Rosario around the diamond, perhaps a way of addressing their longstanding outfield problem.
It probably isn’t a surprise that both Wolf and Greene weren’t drafted by Alderson’s front office, which may have made him more open to moving these particular prospects. The two youngsters were second-round picks (Wolf in 2019, Greene in 2020) during Brodie Van Wagenen’s time as New York’s general manager, and were respectively ranked ninth and 10th in MLB Pipeline’s list of Mets minor leaguers.
Drafted as a high schooler out of Texas, Wolf pitched eight innings over five appearances for the Mets’ rookie ball team in 2019. Pipeline rates both his curveball and his fastball as 60-grade plus pitches, with his heater averaging 94mph during his brief rookie ball debut. As per the scouting report, “Wolf’s athleticism, quick arm and clean delivery enable him to pitch to both sides of the plate and all four quadrants of the strike zone, and he earns high marks for his aptitude with regards to making adjustments.”
Greene is another high school product, and he won’t celebrate his 20th birthday until August. Greene is a bit raw, but he already has what Pipeline’s scouting report described as “a contact-oriented approach” at the plate, plus speed, and potential to remain as a center fielder. Baseball America thinks left field might be his eventual destination, but still ranked Greene as the 49th-best prospect available in the 2020 draft, and noted that Greene was “drawing comparisons to Garret Anderson and Michael Brantley” as a hitter.
In the bigger picture, today’s trade emulates other major swaps made by the Indians in recent years — a higher-priced star player (whether Lindor, Carrasco, Mike Clevinger, Trevor Bauer, or Corey Kluber) is dealt for a combination of big-league ready pieces and younger talent. Cleveland president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti and GM Mike Chernoff have done an admirable job of keeping the Indians competitive amidst this constant shedding of higher-paid players, in part due to the team’s ability to consistent develop quality pitchers from its minor league system.
That said, Cleveland now has just over $40MM on its books for 2021, and no players officially under contract beyond the season. At least one of Jose Ramirez’s club options seem a safe bet to be exercised, but that’s assuming Ramirez isn’t also traded at some point in the next 12 months. The lack of both fan attendance and revenue-sharing payments unquestionably delivered a big hit to the team’s financial picture, but this even more austere approach to roster construction will surely hamper Cleveland’s chances at contending in the AL Central and making another postseason appearance.
ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links) was the first to report that the two teams were “deep in talks” about a Lindor deal, and Passan also noted Gimenez was part of the trade. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman first reported the the two sides had agreed to the trade. MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported Carrasco’s involvement in the swap. MLB Pipeline’s Jonathan Mayo reported that Rosario was being dealt, while The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported Wolf’s involvement, and ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel) had Greene’s involvement.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Gimenez+ to Tribe
“The Francisco Lindor-to-the-Mets trade is being finalized, sources tell ESPN. This is going to happen.”
ABCD
Interesting as we will see what one year of a premium player is worth in trade.
ABCD
It’s going to be blurred a bit now by Carrasco.
ABCD
Jed should have taken a lesson in salary dumping from Cleveland.
Loling @ you
@kyleschwarberamom Clearly you must not be keen to baseball value mets got 2 mediocre major league players and 2 prospect barely in top 10 of mets middling farm. Cubs got 4 prospects in the top 15 of padres loaded farm (ranked 2 overall prior to trade) and Davies a cheap cost controlled arm with great production last season. If anything indians got fleeced, they gave up carrasco (cheap cost controlled arm) and 1 year of lindor for aaaa positional players and none of mets best blue chip talent. Try to keep up
ABCD
@Tatsumaki
Gimenez had a good season for a 22 year old. This is a fair trade for both sides. Cleveland dumped their salary and picked up a player for the next five years.
Those Padres prospects slotted in at about the same place in the Cubs prospect list as they were in the Padres system. We have no idea for four years whether these guys pan out. The overpay for the Cubs was chipping in Caratini and $3 million.
Mlb1971
“ After some early-career extension talks with the Tribe failed to lead to a deal, it became increasingly clear that Cleveland would look to trade Lindor RATHER THAN JUST LET HIM WALK IN FREE AGENCY. “
….the Mookie Betts trade….lol
Loling @ you
@kyle prospect rankings are volatile, those prospects could shoot up into top 100 lists in 1 year of minor league action as others players graduate. They have huge upside and are all still teenagers outside of 1 who is 20 years old. They would be in 2-7 range prospect grade for teams not as deep as padres. In addition, Cubs cut cost and sold high on darvish who had a fantastic year in a shortened season but will likely regress and this was the best package they were getting. Added bonus is Davies could be flipped at deadline for additional capital it’s not as bad a deal as you paint it to be.
lowtalker1
You forget that Cleveland does not draft well but they do have a keen eye for pitching trades.
mcmillankmm
@tatsumaki….Carrasco nothing to brag about…
ABCD
@tatsumaki
Preciado looks like the best of the bunch and could enter the top 100 soon. Also, you never know, Davies may outpitch Darvish but it’s betting against the odds. If Davies has to be flipped at the deadline, the trade looks worse for the Cubs as they will probably be out of contention in a weak NL Central. The division is just sitting there like an Amazon package on the porch.
rondon
kyleschwarbersmom… I couldn’t agree with you more. Hoyer made a desperate trade.
looiebelongsinthehall
Not sure Yaz what your point is. Lindor is not Mookie and more to the point, Cleveland is not Boston. The questions for each club were despite what was said to the press publicly, what chance was there really to sign each, what chance did each have to win it all if you kept them and was the risk worth it? You can’t be armchair quarterbacking afterwards.
Oddvark
@Tatsumaki propect ranking are volatile, these prospects could drop off of teams’ top 30 lists in a year or two of minor league action if their performance doesn’t match their potential and as other players are drafted/signed internationally and other prospects start showing more promise. They have huge risk because they are all still teenagers outside of 1 who is 20 years old.
sgtschultz
Lets be honest, the Cubs are a poorly run organization. Always have been. The owners are only interesting in using the team as an ATM and are salary dumping because they spent all their money on elections.
Prospectnvstr
lowtalker: The Indians do pretty good in trades overall but especially in they bring in pitchers. Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger, & Carrasco were all acquired “assets”. Michael Brantley was also acquired in the C.C. Sabathia deal. Re not drafting well: They did draft Lindor in ’11. More recently they drafted Bieber, Zach Plesac, Aaron Civale. They also signed Jose Ramirez. They also have some more recent draftees that are making it up the ladder.
FWsportsman
This might turn out to be a decent trade but the two young guys could make it a good deal. The Mets better win with all the moves they have made.
debubba
Drafted Plesac, Civale, and Bieber in the same draft. I think you mean they don’t draft outfielders well in the draft.
SadRedsFan
@kyleschwarbersmom
Gimenez is at best a league-average hitter with a good glove. He looks like a Freddy Galvis at best. And I’m not dissing Galvis but he ain’t Lindor. Nor is Rosario, he just seems to swing at everything (low walk rate chips at his value).
And as for the prospects, you don’t seem to realize how atrocious the Mets farm system is. 9th and 10th on their list are probably like 20th on a middle-of-the-pack farm list. That’s no value for Carrasco and Lindor.
Mystery Team
Agreed the Indians got fleeced for sure, but the funny thing is that now the Mets will still suck but they’ll just suck with Lindor and Carrasco there to enjoy the suck with them. They are the Mets after all and sucking is what they do best.
Chief Two Hands
Yeah! Suck it, New York!
Mikel Grady
Jed did he dumped Darvish and his contract . 35 year old with 3 years left and last year will be brutal. Only good year with Cubs was 60 game little league season . Pitching with no fans booing him. Little mental midget will choke in San Diego
Mikel Grady
2016 champs . Dodgers won Mickey Mouse World Series that will always have a asterisks beside it . Wow spend multi millions more than anyone else way to go Dodgers . Darvish trade and machado trade won them nothing .
Chief Two Hands
@mikel Grady…Are you under the assumption that the Padres are the Dodgers?
rondon
DodgersFan76… Granted, I haven’t felt good about their lack of spending the last couple of years, but “poorly run organizations” don’t win a World Series and make the playoffs multiple years.
JoeBrady
Tatsumaki
Isn’t what you said about the Cubs prospects the same as what could be said about the Indians prospects?
And saying Gimenez is mediocre, when he was a top prospect, who had a great rookie year, simply disqualifies you.
neoncactus
@MikelGrady – I have more of an issue with teams that don’t spend than teams that do. The Dodgers weren’t even over the luxury tax last season. And no asterisks to the World Series, sorry. Even with a shortened season, they played an extra postseason series, beat the 2 next best teams in the National League and the team with the best record in the American League. The Dodgers earned that championship.
Loling @ you
@joe brady, sound logic there bud. The op said that Cubs deal is worse than Indians and I beg to differ. Padres farm was ranked #2 prior to moved for snell and darvish 4 prospects in there top 15 means more than the mets 2 prospects in top 10 they were ranked #13 before trade. And yes Gimenez is mediocre, all glove no bat, has a small sample size season in 60 game season but projects to be Jose Iglesias at best. Look at minors numbers (doesn’t project to be a star), to my knowledge he was never a top prospect…you also only talked about gimenez what about Rosario? Guys been in league 4 years and done nothing can’t hit and is ok with glove. No blue chip talent changing hands for Indians despite giving up a potential ace in carrasco and top 15 player in Lindor abit for only 1 year. Now compare that to what Cubs got in Davies: young, cheap and coming off his best season to date. You do the math, if you can count.
bumpy93
they’re saying that it seems as if the Mets and lindor are closing in on a long-term deal you know something that the Phillies should have done with JT but hey you know whatever
HappyLittleTrees
I think the Phils will still get JT, but at a cheaper rate than had he signed right after the trade for more than $150m. I’m predicting a market falling thru for him, and the Phils stealing him for 4/96.
VonPurpleHayes
as if the Phillies didn’t try. players like to bet on themselves. lindor may want to do the same. the trade and extension is hard to accomplish, but cohen has tons of money so it helps.
Deleted Userrr
@VonPurpleHayes making him a Godfather offer defeats the purpose of trading then extending.
tidybowlman
There is a chance that Cohen bought Mccann to drive down Realmuto’s asking price for the purpose of getting him cheaper.
Just sayin’
Before anyone laughs, remember that’s what he (kinda) did with Jeff Wilpon. He walked away, let the old men panic, and came back to get it for less.
VonPurpleHayes
@tidybowlman I don’t see it. For one, McCann would be furious that he was essentially lied to. Secondly, the Mets wouldn’t pay that much for a backup. And even with a DH, the Mets have a bit of a logjam at 1B, so JT couldn’t be moved there. It’s an interesting theory, but I doubt it.
Cosmo2
I doubt anybody is signing JT with the idea he can move to first. His entire value is locked up in plus defense as a good hitting catcher. For the pay he’s asking, no ones gonna be happy sticking him at first base in his decline years. He’s either a catcher or he’s a middling free agent.
iverbure
Say it with me. That’s it. Omg Cleveland’s owner is soooo cheap. Hmmm what other things will stupid ignorant people say? Cleveland got fleeced!
Reality is the fans here think any team who gets the player they know best wins the trade 100% of the time and think the team who sold him got fleeced. That’s how these trades work.
Rumors2godsears
That’s a light return for Lindor, granted it’s a year of him but still.
Deleted Userrr
That’s exactly it. It’s only a year of him.
jim stem
I think the ‘deep into talks’ part of this may have something to do with extending Lindor long term? Just speculation, but WOW!
Aaron Sapoznik
Wait for it…..boom!
RobM
If it happens, it won’t happen on day one, or even week one. Could happen before Opening Day.
geg42
Blue Jays have contacted the Mets about Lindor, Carracci
Padres458
Hes also overrated, defense first, a good, not great bat
ChiSox_Fan
No hope for AL Central “pretenders”.
They will all tank.
White Sox to dominate for next decade.
ABCD
Eat a Polish, Leo, and take a nap.
Prospectnvstr
Rumors2godsears: Let me get this right. For ONE yr of Lindor & TWO yrs of Carrasco it’s a stretch to acquire not 1 but 2 young MLB infielders (Gimenez AND Rosario) who will probably be the 2B & SS for the next 3-5 yrs. In addition they get the Mets ’19 & ’20 second rd draft picks who were both highly regarded (SP & OF). Granted both of them are yrs away from the Majors. Imo, it’s a very good package for Cleveland.
iamhector24
Lindor doesn’t have a great bat? There are 3 players in MLB history who have 3 consecutive 30 homer 40 double seasons. Lindor is one of them.
Prospectnvstr
ChiSox_Fan: The A.L. Central is going to be very competitive for the foreseeable future. No single team is going to establish dominance. The Indians aren’t rebuilding, they’re retooling. They got weaker at shortstop defensively, Lindor was leaving at the end of ’21 anyhow, but they acquired both 2B & SS. The Indians have a pretty solid rotation. They have Freeman and Nolan Jones on the verge of contributing. They also have some nice building blocks further down. The Royals starting pitching is going to be decent this yr and more arms are on the way. Witt isn’t that far away either. The Twins are a wildcard and Detroit is going to be competitive, not contending for the playoffs but they’re not going to be pushovers.
Rumors2godsears
Gimenez is a great SS but he isn’t Lindor and Carrasco is a decent arm but tailed off a bit. I don’t know much about Rosario but hey it’s Cleveland so if they are happy more power to them. To me this is the package you would get at the deadline.
Harvbanger
Who are the other two (3 consecutive 30 HR/40 double seasons)?
PiratesFan1981
@rumor2godsears I think the trade is pretty fair. What Indians got back from the Mets, is what you expect. Here’s why…..
1) Lindor is possible (talks of extension though) one year piece and looking to make potentially 21.5 million this year. That’s pretty steep price without cash going to the Mets. This reducing the chance to claim a top 100 prospect.
2) Carrasco is going to be making 27 million this year and that is going to the Mets as well. This reducing even further chance of a Top 100 prospect.
3) if you done the math, that is 48.5 million for two players this year. No cash exchanged, and plenty of young prospects heading to Cleveland. There is no promises all 4 pan out, but with the numbers I posted above, getting 4 prospects under the age of 20, not a bad deal. (God I hate when I do run on sentences)
All said and done, pretty fair trade and I doubt Cleveland gets anything better. As a Pirates fan, it stinks that small market teams deal away a fan favorite to improve their future. I get your pain and will be here for you every step of the way. Being a Pittsburgh Pirates fan is the toughest thing to deal with and can help guide you through this tough time. That goes for any Indians fan that may feel betrayed, upset, angry, or just hate baseball right now, I am here for you guys. Xoxo
realsox
A good package? Only if one of them turns out to be as good as . . . Lindor. That would make it a break-even trade. But that’s not really the point, is it? The Linder trade illuminates most of what’s wrong with MLB: the age-old struggle of small market teams to compete. That’s why the League needs revenue sharing. Until that happens teams like the Indians will lose their best players to the likes of NY and LA.
tidybowlman
That said, aren’t San Diego and Toronto the other teams spending?
cdav45
W in the actual F are you talking about? Lindor at $20M is a good deal and makes your team far better. Carrasco makes $12M this year and next with an option for $14M in 23 or a $3M buyout. Carrasco is a top 15 SP over the last several years and pitched fantastically last season. He’s your #2 behind DeGrom. So that’s $32M this year for 2 elite players.
It wasn’t a fair trade. The Mets were able to take advantage of Cleveland because they have an owner that either cannot afford a major league team or will not spend to maintain one. Either way, Cleveland fans took it clean to the sack.
JoeBrady
That’s why the League needs revenue sharing. Until that happens teams like the Indians will lose their best players to the likes of NY
———————————————–
The best player isn’t compelling.any more, NY might wind up with the best players, but CL had a better than either NY team did. And the top 5 records in the AL probably qualify as small market.
ChiSox_Fan
Wrong, Prospect!!!
Wait and see.
Cleveland fleeced!
PiratesFan1981
@realsox as much as I hate to bring this up because 60% of baseball fans disagree with a “salary cap”. But I really believe the league should promote the salary cap to players and owners. Ball players are making so much money from richer markets. Leaving middle to small markets to rely on prospects, draft, international signings, and foreign league camps (Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Dominica Republic, etc.). Middle and Small market teams will always get the scraps that are passed by the richer markets. I honestly believe a salary cap should be in place by the time the MLPA and MLB meeting up again (I believe 2021is when the current players/owner agreement expires). Salary Cap will improve the league and open the window for more teams in the league. MLB current structure can not support anymore team since there is so many middle to small market clubs. There are only a handful of high market teams like Angels, Dodgers, Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Phillies, and (questionably) Padres. 9 out of 30 teams can spend “stupid money” without worry. The other 21 clubs have to use their money wisely and invest properly to compete yearly.
All that said, what’s the point of having 9 teams controlling the league because of riches? Every other sport that has a salary cap, has a “equal” opportunity to compete. Only the best franchises prevail through actually working and finding talent. NFL Patriots, Steelers, Chiefs, Seahawks, and few others have done well for years because of talent recognition. Cowboys (rich owner), Raiders, Jets, Dolphins, and others haven’t seen a playoff in a decade or more. NBA Golden State won championships without spending a fortune because of salary cap. NHL is one of the most competitive sports because of the salary cap. Clubs like Capitals, Maple Leafs, and others have won Stanley Cups without breaking the bank in the last 10 years. Why can’t MLB do the same and create a more competitive league and market? Oh yeah, borass will lose some money that away lol
roberty
Carrasco is making $27 million over 2 years with an option for a third year. He’s in his 30’s but that is pretty affordable.
bluewho
Dude, the Maple Leafs have not won a Cup since the .1960s
joeyrocafella
I would probably think that a long term deal would be in the mix for Lindor before he is dealt
mikeyst13
But the Indians were never giving him that long term deal, so on their side it’s still for only 1 year of Lindor or let him walk. Its up to the Mets to extend him after that.
sureshotschmitty
Happy Days again in Met Ville!!
Ducky Buckin Fent
Hah!
Whatevs, @sureshot –
Yanks got Greg Allen & Nestor Cortez. You think we’re not dancing in the streets over that?
(blinkblink)
sureshotschmitty
Yankees waiting for the dust to settle
They need some pitching don’t care what Cash says
Any day now…..
Rsox
You can Jhoulys Chacin to that list if it helps…
Whifff
Anyone have a clue how the Indians return compares to the Cubs return for Yu?
The White Sox are sitting pretty in that division now.
YourDreamGM
@Whiff Cubs got 4 upside prospects for 34 year old pitcher with 3 years left and a solid catcher.
Cleveland got 2 upside prospects for a 34 year old pitcher with 3 years left who is a lot cheaper than Yu and one of the best players in baseball.
So I would take Cubs return. Davies has trade value. Cleveland got 2 light hitting ss. But padres have been only team that has given away great returns.
rondon
Actually, Cleveland got 2 major league ready players and 2 young arms with solid upside. The Cubs got no one even close to seeing Chicago for years.
mlbfan
@rondon, Cleveland also gave up a good ss. The mets should at least get a draft pick out of it if they cannot extend Lindor.
Prospectnvstr
You forgot that the Indians also got Gimenez who’s under control for 6 yrs.
andremets
I think it’s just 5 years of Giminez. He spent the whole on the Mets 2020 roster
cdav45
What planet are you guys from? They got 2 mediocre, low ceiling middle infielders, a 20 yr old pitching prospect in low A and a 19 yr old OF prospect in rookie ball. It was a salary dump.
Cosmo2
It was partially, mostly a salary dump but also a shrewd move to get something for a player you know you’re going to lose. The days of star players bringing back elite prospects for one year or less of control are over. Very fair trade and they should be happy with Gimenez, their SS of the now and future.
SadRedsFan
This trade would never happen without COVID=19 destroying the bottom line of teams with stingy owners like the Indians. That makes it a salary dump. You could call it shrewd but I don’t really see the prospects being that much better than getting a pick by letting him walk. And if we’re comparing the value of having an year of Lindor and Carrasco to Gimenez, that’s just absurd.
1 year of Lindor and Carrasco > 5 years of Gimenez + whatever years Rosario has remaining
jhomeslice
This amazes me, like the other trades this winter. It seems teams are not willing to give up decent prospects at all, and yet teams are willing to dump very good players, getting whatever they can in return – even if it is almost stupid. I know Rosario is a decent player with potential, but the fact that the prospects in the deal are the Mets 9th and 10th best is astounding. Not just for Lindor, but Carrasco too? For Lindor, Clevinger, and Carrasco, the Indians got like 10 mediocre players without a single top prospect worthy of mention. Absolutely amazing. Why they would not wait until the trade deadline in July when surely they could get better players in return makes no sense at all.
I am from Chicago, and despite the good pitchers the Indians still have, I have to say I doubt the Indians will be heard from again in a while. Which is a shame, makes the division a lot less interesting as the Indians clearly now below the Twins and Sox. It’s actually bad for Sox fans, the Sox will probably win the division the next couple years without needing to add the pieces it would take to enhance their chances to play deep into October.
YourDreamGM
Padres have paid great. Other trades solid. Look at who has been aquired. Bell a dh that if you take away 1 or 2 months has never had a season over 1 war. A 34 year old that makes 20 million a year. Clevinger injury concerns. Snell who hasn’t been close to his 2018. He got a top 25 prospect and a former top 20. And a pitcher who had 1st round talent.
SadRedsFan
@YourDreamGM
Well, the Padres are looking to win now. They could be among the “good teams” making the wildcard for 7 years or try to win it all in the next 2~3. I guess they want to win a championship (unlike the Rays).
YourDreamGM
That’s crazy. I was checking a reply from someone else and hit the load new comment and seen yours to someone else, read it. Then you replied to me here. So while I am at it, you said the mets 9 10 prospect would be 20 something on most other teams. They would be 7 to 17, 9 to 12 on most teams. Someone else said 9 10 so must be a sites rankings. I like wolf more than they do then.
I fine with the padres going for it. Their trades have been the highlight of 2021 season. Hopefully they know more than their trade partners and the prospects they traded don’t amount to much. Just being real. The best hauls from the pandemic came from the padres. They got all those players because they paid the most.
mcmillankmm
Very true but also Clevinger is hurt now, Carrasco could revert to 2019 and Lindor is signed for 1 year….you want them to keep all these guys and let them walk?
jhomeslice
@mcm No, I would not want them to keep these those guys and let them walk, but it still amazes me that they have so little value. Years ago, trades like this would usually net a good prospect or 2, not like 4-6 sub par minor leaguers unlikely to yield a single above average major leaguer.
Not at all disputing the philosophy of trading guys before they leave, but if I was a GM and had that dilemma, I would not deal for the relative scrap heap they are getting in return, that’s all. I would hold on to the players, with the hopes they might get a better offer in July or something, rather than give them away for next to nothing. Probably the GM was forced to trade due to ownership and costs, basically.
Spike 13
It’s possible that the Mets wanted to make sure that they could give Lindor a QO at years end in the event they could not extend him
iamhector24
You think the Mets made this trade to be able to give him a QO. Whatever you’re smoking please share it.
SoCalBrave
Spike is saying the QO would be a worst case scenario. The Muts obviously want to resign him.
Scott Kliesen
I think the disconnect you’re having is GM’s aren’t judging these prospects on their ranking within the system, they are valuing them on their tools, and how those tools project over time. For example, take two pitchers, one in AAA and the other in low A. They both have identical ratings on their pitches. The AAA pitcher will be ranked higher because of his higher floor, and higher likelihood to contribute to the major league team. But the GM may value the younger pitcher because he thinks he can develop his pitches to be better than the older pitcher by the time he gets to the major leagues. Certainly a gamble, but one that if it pays off will produce a greater return.
Do this enough times, and it becomes less of a gamble. Especially if you’re the Indians and you’ve proven to be able to develop pitchers as well as any team.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I would say as things stand after this trade the Mets are the best MLB team in New York.
Angels & NL West
Fred, are you talking New York City or are you including the Buffalo Blue Jays?
Alex Bregman
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Alex Bregman
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
pinkerton
So are the Mets interested
deweybelongsinthehall
I guess so…
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
I don’t think so
itsallbravesnation
Woah!
lowtalker1
Nice
Keep away from the doyuers
Deleted_User
Dodgers already have a shortstop
lowtalker1
Seagar ? Lindor is way better
Deleted_User
Seager was better in 2021 and just won NLCS and WS MVP for them.
dshires4
You got a crystal ball?
BringBackDunkeroos
We got us a time traveler here. Already know Seager has a better season than Lindor this year.
Deleted_User
Oof. Better in 2020. Joke’s on me I guess.
DODGER JR
Really? I don’t remember seeing Lindor receiving the WS MVP this past season.
Chief Two Hands
Linder isn’t better…at best he is equal.
Chief Two Hands
Lindor too*
Shrutefarm
Seagar ? Lindor is way better
Not hardly.
Lindor gets the nod defensively
.
Seager gets the nod offensively
GoLandCrabs
Seager is a better hitter and this isn’t debatable anymore.
S_man_2014
60 game season
Padres458
Way better? Lindor is a good hitter. Seager is elite.
mlbdodgerfan2015
When Seager lays off the breaking pitches below the knees he’s one of the best hitters in the game. I’d give Seager the nod overall and his bat. Lindor and Seager actually have the same career fielding percentage at SS, but Lindor has the better range and spectacular plays.
SoCalBrave
Are all of you Dodger fans actually saying that you wouldn’t like to have Lindor AND Seager on your team? That’s pretty dumb…
Dorothy_Mantooth
Seager is one of the most underrated players in baseball. LA needs to lock him up long term now, unless they’d prefer Story but I don’t see why they would.
andremets
Let’s see Seager play 150 games in a season again first. I would take Ali for in a heart beat.
Chev Chelios
I hope this happens. The Mets are fun again
Nothing
They’ve got Linder for the next decade, they’re gonna be a heck of a team.
empirejim
Did they sign him to an extension? If not, they have him for ’21 and the he’s a FA
Nothing
C’mon, you know they’re gonna have like a 10 year extension done by the end of the day.
Deleted Userrr
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
km
@ cheery….I missed the part where they inked Lindor to a new 10 year deal…can you post the link??
Chief Two Hands
My guess is that Lindor will want out of the Mets.
SoCalBrave
I’m sure he’s gonna test the market, but if the Mets offer him the best deal, he’ll stay.
Deleted Userrr
That would make the trade look worse, not better.
Orel Saxhiser
Why would you say that? They have a great group of guys on that team aside from just baseball.
larry48
Mets will screw up still just like always. Same old mets
mrmet17
Would of rathered Rosario instead of Gimenez…
T_Rexx2
I’m sure the Mets would have too
DarkSide830
that assumes the Indians were interested in Rosario to begin with
Chev Chelios
Gimenez > Rosario so that is too obvious as to why the Tribe is interested in Gimenez. Maybe they can trade Rosario for another need.
bencole
Way less teal control for Rosario though
findingnimmo
The Indians wouldn’t lol.
flyingblindsquirrel
I’m sure the Mets would rather that too, but ya gotta give something to get something.
bencole
*team
acmeants
Thank you for clarifying that. I thought it was a new nickname for the Marlins.
sisseton
Rosario is in the deal as well.
slund24
well its both Rosario and Gimenez
Prospectnvstr
MrMet17: The Indians got BOTH Rosario AND Gimenez.
DarkSide830
wow that came out of nowhere
vincent k. mcmahon
It’s like an RKO.
TheCoryWade
stretch123
Gotta give Mets credit got being aggressive.
SanDiegoTom
Lindor is an awesome fit for the Mets. Their new owner doesn’t seem be afraid to spend, either. I’d expect an extension soon after the deal is completed
Deleted Userrr
Why would you expect an extension?
RobM
He’s figuring they’ll follow what the Dodgers did with Mookie. It’s possible. Takes two to tango though. Lindor may want to first see if the Mets are his cup of tea, or New York is in general. I don’t see the Mets under Cohen’s control having an issue with the money it will take to sign him. Question is will Lindor sign.
CNichols
Probably because this deal kinda feels like Mookie Betts 2.0 in that a team who doesn’t want to pay an MVP caliber player is trading him away before his walk year.
I think the assumption is that if you have a player like Betts or Lindor and an owner who can spend/big market team that they’re going to want to extend the player that they’re acquiring. Not saying they actually will extend him because it’s not entirely the Mets choice, but seems like Cohen would at least try.
Deleted Userrr
Course they’ll try. Why wouldn’t they? Lindor isn’t the type of player who would extend though.
meckert
Why wouldn’t you?
Deleted Userrr
Because Lindor isn’t that type of player and the Mets aren’t an organization that players actively want to play for.
SanDiegoTom
New owner in town, in case you missed it.
Deleted Userrr
Gonna take more than that to change the way players view that team.
Cap & Crunch
Blah Blah, you probably had the same tired speech w Mookie-
When are you guys going to learn to read BETWEEN the lines ?
Remember way back when Sandy said they wouldnt trade from the farm?
Deleted Userrr
Are you seriously comparing the Mets to the Dodgers??????
And it’s not as if the Dodgers didn’t pay Mookie. Nor is it as if they had to extend him for that trade to pay off for them.
CNichols
At the end of the day isn’t it basically just money that talks? You don’t have to be the Dodgers or Yankees to sign someone to a huge deal.
Like the Padres don’t have a glorified history/amazing reputation or anything but Machado took the $300M they offered. Same thing with Rendon and the Angels, they’re like notorious for not being able to get Trout to the playoffs, but they met Rendon’s price so now he plays for them.
If the Mets meet Lindor’s price, why wouldn’t he take the money?
Deleted Userrr
Well sure everyone has a price. But as has been said before, if you make him a Godfather offer that defeats the purpose of trading then extending.
lolzmets
You can keep typing the same comment over and over, but it doesn’t make it true. You are constantly regurgitating this tired argument about Realmuto but it’s completely unrelated. That’s a different crappy franchise that made a different crappy trade, years ago. Stop repeating yourself everyone is sick of it.
Deleted Userrr
JT Realmuto is actually a perfect example of why you shouldn’t assume that the player will just magically fall in love with the place and sign for half of what the market would have offered just because you traded for him.
JoeBrady
Spot-on. I’d suggest that Lindor has an additional advantage now that the NYMs have spent so much just acquiring him. It is a lot like the Realmuto trade. Philly gave up some good talent to acquire him, and are in a position where they need to spend real money to keep him, plus real money to replace Sanchez.
Deleted_User
@CNichols BuT tHe WhItE sOx OfFeReD mAcHaDo MoRe MoNeY tHaN tHe PaDrEs!
Cap & Crunch
Nope Im comparing Mookie to Lindor
If you think the Mets today, who just traded their 2 young ss for Lindor are not going to field Lindor for 22 and beyond then I guess we just disagree-
Solid chance he has a 7 yr extension by sun-down Sunday night
RobM
Like Mookie, it’ll take a 10-year deal.
Deleted Userrr
“If you think the Phillies today, who just traded their best pitching prospect for Realmuto are not going to field Realmuto for 21 and beyond then I guess we just disagree-” – probably Cap & Crunch 2 years ago.
Oh. And it will take way more than 7 years to get Lindor to forego his one shot at the open market. Mookie Betts will be 40 when his contract expires so start there.
RobM
A 10/350 is the opening discussion. Lindor’s agent knows Cohen’s new reputation will be dented if he trades for and only gets one season out of Lindor. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they have to up to the $400 million range. More than Betts because of the circumstances. No Covid discount here.
Cosmo2
Please, 10/350 is not the opening bid. It’s likely more than he’ll get. Fans are always prepared to overpay big names with other peoples money.
stymeedone
Betting that how much things open up during Covid this year may have a say in whether Lindor takes an extension. If it looks like a poor revenue year for the sport, he may be more willing to listen to the Mets offer.
Deleted Userrr
Only getting one season out of Lindor won’t have any effect on Cohen’s reputation. Why would it? Lindor signing an extension was never part of the deal.
SadRedsFan
10/350 sounds absurd. I would say the comp is more to Anthony Rendon’s 7/245 deal. I know they play different positions but Rendon is the better hitter and Lindor is the better defender. Probably evens out to that kind of deal.
Caleb Clark
Woah! That came out of the middle of nowhere. I can’t wait to see what the rest of the return is.
seamaholic 2
That’s probably close to it. Some low-level minor leaguers to fill it out. Gimenez is a legit major league SS with 5 years of control. Lindor’s a stud but he’s only guaranteed for one year and you have to pay him $30m a year after that.
NMK 2
Rosario is more of a trade chip at this point for New York, while Giminez felt more like the Mets shortstop of the future. Stings a bit to lose a talented young player, but a trade requires talent on both sides. Wolf is also a talented, albeit very young, pitcher.
aidenr
I would be lying if I told you that I didn’t pee my pants a little bit with excitement.
bobtillman
Wash your hands….and your pants for heaven’s sake….
DarkSide830
ladies and gentlemen…Mets fans
pt57
It could have been worse. Other bodily fluids to consider.
ajrodz1335
Ok, bring back the black jerseys now!
kylegocougs
The most thing about the black mets jerseys is that they use a different shade of orange and blue. It would look way better if the black jerseys had the same color ways.
bobtillman
Frankie’s gonna absolutely own the Big Apple…..needs to be there. He can be Pat Mahomes in that market.
acmeants
Nit everyone can survive there, let alone thrive.
bobtillman
Frankie is MLB’s most marketable asset. Let’s face it, Trout would rather watch the Eagles, and Mookie would rather be bowling.
Lindor will light up Shea.
Aaron Sapoznik
Mr. Smile!!!
Eloy Jimenez is next in line to become MLB’s most marketable asset.
DarkSide830
heard of that Harper guy?
Hudson6
Tatis, Soto, Acuna…
joeyrocafella
Yes!!! #LFGM
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Mets getting Lindor and Carrasco. Wow…
Nothing
NOOO! I was so hoping the Blue Jays would get him. I don’t blame the Mets though, I blame Shatkins. Incompetent front office.
Darthyen
You sound surprised? Did you ever think Rogers cared about anything other than making a lot of noise while spending very little to garner big profits? They don’t care about the fans, the team or winning, they only care about profit and if by chance the others go hand in hand with profit, they will pretend to care as cheap as they can.
Le Grande Orangerie
Was only a matter of time until the “Blue Jays would have had him if the Front Office and Rogers cared about winning” hot take of the day.
its_happening
As great as Lindor is they do not need him for one season at the expense of Gurriel. If SS is a problem they can sign him or Baez or Story or Seager or Correa next year.
Now is not the time to blame the FO when plenty of needs are available.
Aaron Sapoznik
Because the Blue Jays are really hurting at SS with 22-year old Bo Bichette in place for at least the next 5 years? Before you start crying too much why not let the offseason play out. The Jays have been famously connected to ever major FA this offseason and I’d bet they will land at least one from among Trevor Bauer, George Springer, JT Realmuto and DJ LeMahieu.
Met fans were whining plenty too. I’m guessing we won’t be hearing much of that in the wake of this blockbuster trade and another key FA acquisition or two still likely.
MarkoRock68
cheeerry . Would you have given up Gurriel-Thornton-Van Eyk and Machado . That is similar value to what the Mets gave up.
Le Grande Orangerie
These morons don’t have a clue who you’re talking about. You’ll have to translate it into players on the Toronto Maple Leafs
iverbure
To me the jays wouldn’t have to give up Gurriel and much more than a lower prospect in the system for that package. Gurriel is under team control and has great contract. Carrasco in this current market I don’t believe is a asset at all. And when you attached him to a 20 million dollar player it’s less valuable know matter how talented the player is in this pandemic market, given how teams aren’t eager to add salary.
twins&mlbfan4ever
dayum
RobM
Intrigue!
I gather they’ll attempt a Mookie, post-trade extension, but first let’s see if the trade happens.
juansoto22
Still won’t be a contender
DarkSide830
um okay then
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t see how any honest fan can say that now. Two biggest needs addressed here. Defense and starting pitching. Not to mention Lindor’s bat. Mets are definitely competing this year. I still like the Braves for the division, but Mets are legit.
Padres458
Lindors bat isnt that good
VonPurpleHayes
The Mets didn’t need his bat. It’s just a bonus. And it’s not bad.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Yes, they are. Between Lindor and Carrasco, the Mets added a modest 5+ WAR at the minimum for next season. If they perform well, it’s 10 WAR.
findingnimmo
I don’t know why this is priority when they need a few other things that only cost money and not prospects. Unless they extend him there is no need for this trade
Deleted Userrr
The need is to add an elite player for a playoff push in 2021.
jim stem
It frees up Rosario to be moved. A deal like this typically leads to other moves when incumbent starters are pushed out of position.
RobM
Rosario seems to be also part of the deal going to the Cleveland Americans.
VonPurpleHayes
They needed defense and starting pitching. They got both.
Caleb Clark
Anybody know what some of the other pieces are yet, cause I can’t get on Twitter cause I’m in school.
bobtillman
Don’t lie to me, Mr. President.
rangers92
Is there a 3rd team involved?
Dom Smith and JD Davis?
Corey Oswalt ?
Bill M
No
flmetfan
Let’s go Mets!
Rangers29
Holy crap! When can Cohen sign my adoption papers, cause he’s my daddy!
I swear if Gimenez is the main piece, then this is quite the steal.
DarkSide830
you might need to chill
YakAttack
Might?
PapiElf
My goodness. I’d only heard about how the Yankees and others were in on Lindor, not the Mets.
RobM
The Yankees were never in on Lindor, just media stories speculating how he’d be a good fit. Frankly, there wasn’t any legitimate stories about Lindor connected to any team beyond the Blue Jays, but every player is being connected to the Blue Jays this offseason.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Lindor was never going to be traded for with the Yankees. Alderson did a good job keeping negotiations quiet.
Deleted Userrr
And why not?
LordD99
The Indians certainly would have traded him to any team that had an interest in him, outside of probably the Twins or White Sox. A team in another division or league? A trade partner. The Indians were desperately looking to shed money. The issue is the Indians had a very limited market of teams to deal with because only top contenders needing a SS and willing to trade for him on a one-year rental, and with money to spare, and a desire to make a splash, were on the short list. In the end, the Mets were nearly the only trade partner, beyond maybe the Blue Jays. The Dodgers might have stepped in on a fire sale, but Lindor is not a necessity for them. He’s not a necessity for the Yankees who are focusing their resources this offseason on other issues. I can make an argument that the Angels should have been in on this deal too, but not on a one year rental for Lindor. The team that needed him the most is the team that got him.
RobM
Hadn’t considered the Angels since their focus was on pitching, but they would have made sense since Carrasco was moved as part of this deal. Not sure Moreno was going to step up money wise, and I’m not sure what they would have offered talent wise.
RobM
Yes, he wasn’t on the Yankees radar this off season.
king beas
I wonder if corasco made the return cost more or less since the Indians are clearly looking to cut salary
ABCD
More
RobM
Carrasco is an extremely valuable get in his own right and actually accepted a below-market deal to remain with the Indians. He’d get a nice return on his own, perhaps even more than Lindor considering Lindor is a one-year rental and more expensive. So, in answer to your question, he’ll increase the price of the deal.
Now it could be that the Indians were not getting traction on Lindor alone, so they were forced into including Carrasco to get the return they wanted. We shall see when the details are announced.
YourDreamGM
Indians loved cutting carasco money. Just happened Mets had interest in both players.
iverbure
Giving the money Lindor is going to make and add Carrasco’s contract I’m pretty sure it hurt the return. How many teams right now were willing to take on that money? Two. Indians didn’t have a lot of leverage in the deal.
RobM
Then they should have separated the two players in the deal. Deal Lindor to the Mets, and then deal Carrasco to teams looking for pitching. Carrasco’s deal is below market. An argument can be made he’d have been the best pitcher available not named Bauer, and another argument could be made he’s better than Bauer.
DarkSide830
oml
Rangers29
sry man… there are lots of options for people in your position
DarkSide830
im really not that bothered by this. ive already said that I think the Mets are better then us. it was always going to be a matter of taking care of our own business regardless.
lolzmets
You’re right- they are both crappy franchises with long histories of losing.
Rangers29
AND COOKIE!!! WTF COHEN!!!
Caleb Clark
Josh Wolf is also in the return, according to DiComo
Caleb Clark
Rosenthal, not DiComo
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
NL East was already the toughest division. This just solidifies it.
metsfan1992
The NL East is getting scarier IMO
VonPurpleHayes
Yea. Except for the Phillies.
DarkSide830
im still not terribly scared of the Nats and the Marlins until they make a move or two.
RobM
I think the Marlins are headed in the right direction now, but their 2020 was a bit of a fluke. They’re still a couple years away.
VonPurpleHayes
Nats will be a lot better by virtue of health. I don’t necessarily think the Marlins are better than the Phillies, but they do destroy them head to head for some reason.
nreeves1268
I’m a Braves’ fan. The Mets are going to be a tough out.
larry48
Mets will be better than Braves on paper. Have to wait and see how the Mets run the bases.LOL
Eatdust666
Maybe, but unfortunately, the games aren’t played on paper, just ask the 2011 Red Sox.
lolzmets
No they won’t. They never are.
SadRedsFan
Well, sometimes they are. 2020 Dodgers
Deleted Userrr
Holy cow!
jyosuckas
Not happening for a guy in his walk year
iverbure
Wut?
VonPurpleHayes
And boom goes the dynamite. Met fans can relax now. Cohen did it.
MrMet1979 2
That trade was all Sandy Alderson bro.
VonPurpleHayes
@MrMet1979 Sandy can’t get all the credit, because you need the money to have the confidence to resign Lindor, Conforto and Thor. Otherwise this trade never happens.
Deleted Userrr
@VonPurpleHayes well sure it does. This trade did not have signing Lindor in mind.
lolzmets
You have no way of knowing that. Stop repeating yourself.
Deleted Userrr
Sure I do. If it did they would have made the trade contingent on an extension, like what the Reds did with Sonny Gray or the Blue Jays with R. A. Dickey. Ain’t no reason the Mets couldn’t have done that.
SadRedsFan
Well, what about the Mookie Betts trade. There wasn’t any assurance he was going to sign an extension.
Lindor doesn’t seem intent on signing before free agency anyway. A lot of extensions do result in a below-market deal — Sonny Gray, Jacob deGrom — to name a few.
Rsox
The pandemic was the assurance after the fact. The Dodgers offered a ridiculous amount of money and Mookie was smart enough to take it
Bill M
I’m not really relaxing yet. I still think the Braves are better. And at this point, Matz or Lugo are slotted in at number 4 & that’s pretty scary. But I don’t want to sound like a downer. I like the trade a lot
VonPurpleHayes
I mean how greedy can you get? hahah. but yeah. the braves are still really good, and i think better on paper, but the fact is he mets made a ton of moves. they were a last place team last year. i don’t care how much you discount the 2020 season, they stunk. now we’re talking about them competition with the braves for the division. and i think they will compete. to me, that’s a good offseason. They could still make more splashes (Springer…etc), but they don’t need to. They addressed every single need in some fashion. They have financial flexibility to resign and extend everyone who needs to be extended. The injured Syndergaard is just a bonus now which is insane. The Mets are a real good team on paper.
Hantoneenee
I’d still feel better with the Mets getting another SP & LHRP. They got much better today. Getting Carrasco included was big for them. It sent a message to free agent pitchers this season that there are other ways to help fill their rotation. Maybe there will be some movement now.
iml12
If they can pull off this trade and sign Springer, I think there is a new front runner in the East. Love seeing front offices go for it
YourDreamGM
Braves pitching.
iml12
Braves definitely have the nod in rotation but Mets have the better offense and the best pitcher. If they sign Springer this lineup would be deadly.
iverbure
I love when teams go for it and don’t win. I love when the teams who people say aren’t trying to win who don’t make any moves just relying on their players to improve and they win. It’s really makes the Scott Boras’s and anyone who declares the winners of the offseason look like absolute goofs.
YourDreamGM
Mets have at least 4 guys who leave a lot to be desired defensively. With Springer I would call it 1a 1b if braves don’t replace Ozuna.
HalosHeavenJJ
I thought Carrasco to the Angels made sense for both sides.
The good candidates are coming off the board.
Chev Chelios
Angels should see what it costs to trade for Hendricks
HalosHeavenJJ
As Tom Petty said, the waiting is the hardest part.
Cap & Crunch
And I wont back down !
stymeedone
Don’t come around here, no more!
jim stem
Not Rosario? I guess that’s a little surprising.
So Rosario either moves to second (McNeil to 3b) or is part of a following trade. Could it be a three team deal?
I do hope there is a CF defender involved along with a healthy, proven starting pitcher.
Gimenez is a prospect who will most likely never approach Lindor numbers offensively or even be an All Star. But he is realistically a decent starting shortstop with a good glove, versatility and speed.
If it’s 1:1, you don’t need to go deep into talks, even if money is involved. That says scouting reports and additional names are being negotiated.
I could see Matz, Lugo, Salazar, Plesac, Naquin and Davis being involved. Maybe Perez (catcher) and Nido. Indians and Mets match up well for a prospective fantasy baseball blockbuster trade scenario.
With Lindor on board, Rosario is probably available to the highest bidder. Love to see Gray or Castillo from the Reds in Mets uniform.
jim stem
Sorry, I meant Carrasco. Salazar is a free agent.
Robertowannabe
Appears Rosario is gone to the highest bidder already…
PinstripedPride
Rosario is part of the deal. It’s Rosario and Gimenez for Lindor and Carrasco
iverbure
People could spare themselves a lot of time and brain power just by waiting till the trade is announced in full.
jim stem
@iverbure – what fun is that? We are all fans!
As a lifelong Metsomaniac, I’ve been pretty disappointed since David Wright’s back ailments took him out of the game. But the Mets minor league system has really produced the past 5 years or so. This team’s core is homegrown which is even more fun!
Oddvark
If this goes through and the Mets then extend Lindor to a big money extension, I wonder how it affects their pursuit of Bauer and Springer. Lindor’s bat reduces the need for Springer. Carrasco reduces the need for Bauer. I know Cohen has deep pockets, but how much will they spend this year?
its_happening
Maybe a 3B. Depends on whether or not Davis is heading to Cleveland.
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t think they bother with either now. They can focus on Hendriks. Roll with these starters. Use their money to sign Lindor, Conforto and Thor. Compete for the next 5 years. Job done.
Ma4170
I think they sign springer
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t. I think this was a huge move. They’re fine. Springer wants insane money. They can let him go elsewhere.
Cap & Crunch
I am of the approach that this was the big move as well – Id pass on Jtr DlM Bauer Springer and Liam as of today – Theres still a buncha other quality players to be had and they got the trade deadline and next years great fa crop as well before 22 begins-
They SHOULD NOT act like this is a 1 year plan – Take advantage of all the great 1 or 2 yr deals you can get right now on guys like Hand ,Garrett Richards, Kiki etc – Us your money to push them towards you by offering an extra mill short term to keep the yrs/risk down long term (Atl style) – Keep yourself Fluid Cohen and you will play from the top of the hill for the next couple years
YourDreamGM
Keep spending as long as you don’t have much competition. Springer for 100 yes. 150 no. Get a good deal if not drive up the price for the competition.
jim stem
I think it lessens the need for Bauer, yes, but not Springer. If this goes through I predict Springer signs with the Mets within 10 days. It sends a signal that the Mets are in this year and not waiting 3-5 years.
Center field is a gaping hole for us and the biggest +WAR area to change. It’s obvious that Cohen has a plan.
Cap & Crunch
Oh this news def doesnt bring smiles to the BIG 4 left !!!
Toronto Philly other active GMs have to have a smile on their face right now
Time to roll up your sleeves and play hardball if your a GM
Padres458
Lindors bat is weak.
sviscusi
A 118rc+ and .350woba is not weak.
morritl
Tali’s is overrated.
glassml
2020 Wild Card Series Game 2 against the Yankees. Of the Indians starting 10, only 4 players remain. Lindor, Hernandez, Santana, Naquin, DeShields and Carrasco all gone.
its_happening
Exactly the move the Mets needed to make. Well done.
Cleveland is setting up for 2022.
seamaholic 2
In what way is Cleveland “setting up” for 2022? The two prospects they got (#9 and #10 in a very weak system) are 19 and 20 years old. Not even a given both will ever play in the major leagues. Gimenez is a dime-a-dozen glove first SS, not even the Mets best SS prospect.
its_happening
They have enough pitching to keep them in games. They are waiting for their top hitting prospects to get their feet wet in 2021. It’s not a rebuild until they deal Ramirez and some arms.
AL Central is still not strong. It wouldn’t take much for the Indians to contend with their pitching staff.
YourDreamGM
Those guys are top 10 in most systems. Mets system rankings aren’t as high because of lack of elite top 100 talent.
its_happening
Not sure if this was directed at me. I was referring to Nolan Jones plus Gimenez, the Naylors, all getting at bats in 2021 (maybe only the elder Naylor). To compete in the AL Central in 2022 isn’t far fetched and I do believe Cleveland is looking toward that. Otherwise they’d unload more players and go full rebuild.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Cleveland is a Ramirez deal away from being in a full rebuild now. Bieber & Plesac are still on rookie deals, so they stay no matter what (Bieber might be year 1 ARB at most). I hope Cleveland figures out how to keep J-Ram but I wouldn’t bank on it. The Cleveland financial situation is really bleak and by selling off their best players, future attendance will drop again given the nature of their fans (once fans are allowed back). Cleveland could end up being as cheap as Tampa & Pitt when it’s all said and done. Terry Francona might be the most expensive piece left on the team. It’s such a shame to see a once proud franchise have to drop to this level. I really don’t think it has to do with the owner being ‘cheap’. These moves are being made out of financial necessity. Indians fans need to come out and support their team and the Indians organization needs to negotiate a better TV deal too, or this franchise may end up having to move in order to have a chance to survive. Such a shame…beautiful ballpark too.
Loling @ you
Return is light so far, needs to have some top level talent in there if carrasco is involved….I think this bodes well for dodgers if they were to acquire arenado via trade and the return is low for lindor and carrasco
rocky7
Return is light so far…..Says who….you…and what team are you the GM for again?
Loling @ you
2 mediocre mlb regulars and 2 guys barely in mets top 10 = weak return
StreakingBlue
I don’t believe Dodgers are going to make any trade with Cleveland, or Rockies. They would ruin their future payroll.
CNichols
Its way different to trade for Lindor before his walk year as opposed to trading for Arenado with his opt out still coming up after this year. Thats such a knuckleball for his value.
Dorothy_Mantooth
There is a zero chance that Arenado opts out of his deal. He was overpaid at the time he signed it and has played below average (from his career skillset) since then. No team would pay him as much, if not more than what he’s already owed so he isn’t opting out of his deal regardless of what team he is on. Arenado’s deal isn’t as bad as Stanton’s but if Colorado can find a way to move it, they’d be really smart to do so now. In a couple of years, it becomes immovable (like Stanton).
Cap & Crunch
Screw Arrenando they need to get on the phone for Jose Ramierez at this moment
Loling @ you
Cap crunch I like the way you think man, never thought of that! Wonder if lux as headliner would be a good starting point
YourDreamGM
Won’t be lux.
Cap & Crunch
Lux Ruiz White gets you 90% if not all the way there
Dorothy_Mantooth
Rios & Lux for J-Ram. Cleveland would do that deal in NY minute! J-Ram in LA would be deadly. You could put a dead fish in to play 2B and they’d still lead the league in all offensive categories.
SadRedsFan
Lux and Rios isn’t nearly enough. Lux hasn’t proven himself in the big leagues and Rios is nothing much. I think you would have to replace Rios with Dustin May or something to get a deal done.
sdfriarfan
Wow! Great job Mets. This is going to be a great season in the NL
DocBB
Damn…that’s like next to nothing for two very good players.
jdgoat
And Cleveland guarantees at least a decade of mediocrity for themselves
YourDreamGM
They have a lot of talent in their system, they should hit on a few guys. They have the pitching now, just no bats are ready.
StreakingBlue
I am not up to speed on the Mets farm system, but if I was Cleveland I would only trade Lindor etc. for establishing players who have proved they aren’t just a prospect at minimum. If fans are allowed in 2021 they are telling the fans to stay away. At worst you keep him, and get better results at trade deadline possibly.
YourDreamGM
Teams don’t like to trade established players that are good for 1 year rentals. And cleveland was good with lindor and attendance still dropped. Full fans doesn’t seem likely and I have no idea how 2022 is going to go.
stymeedone
Its Cleveland, fans stay away regardless.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Discount Dolan planning to move the team to Nashville.
That’s why the upcoming name change and the stadium lease expires in two years.
Joke ownership. Never trust a Dolan.
RobM
If it makes you feel any better, NY has its own Dolan problem in another sport.
ClevelandSpidersFromMars
Unbelievably, Cleveland has the better Dolan!
Deleted Userrr
If the trade is completed as reported on here BTV says it favors the Mets by $6.2m
Deleted Userrr
Strike that. It’s $1.5m
Cap & Crunch
But…… But ……But ………they told us they were’nt going to trade from the farm??? How could this be? Geez I told everyone like a parrot this would never happen blah blah blah
Shout out to those of you still think for themselves these days…. and Cohen and the Mets ofc !!!
seamaholic 2
Wow. The market for Lindor must have been dead as a post. This is close to the level where MLB might want to be concerned about long term competitiveness, when a team can snag two players at the level of Carrasco and Lindor for a glove first SS and a couple far away lotto picks, just because they’re the only team with money to spend.
iml12
Not sure this is much better than taking a QO but their payroll should be about 12 dollars now.
seamaholic 2
Well, it’s better than that, just because there are multiple prospects in the deal. But not much. I guess Cleveland just literally could not pay Lindor’s contract, and therefore had no choice.
Deleted Userrr
I don’t think they could afford not to pay him.
rocky7
The owners run MLB not the league because without the owners there is no MLB…..so owners will make decisions that make sense to them for motivations we really no very little about….MLB is not a democracy……its a business….the owners run the league and what their view of anything including competitiveness is up to them.
larkraxm
Not only team with “money to spend” but maybe the only team WILLING to spend money. That is not the fault of the team willing to spend. Besides they spent prospects not money. Why would Lindor not want to test market next year???
rocky7
All this goes to show that everyone who comments really doesn’t know squat about what may or may not happen….fun to debate though which is all anyone on this site really does…..the decisions are being made at an entirely different level and they aren’t asking anyone else for help in making them.
RobM
Well of course. MLBTR is simply a place to go with rumors and then fans saying fan-like things. I don’t come here for insight. I come here to vent!
newpony13
Very well put!
Cap & Crunch
It also goes to show dont buy what your spoon fed from the media
This place is a great place to share ideas but a lot of the times you get really narrow lines created; The thought every org will do the same thing year in year out is far too often thrown around in here –
Gms are people too, they make mistakes, but more importantly they are ever-evolving in their craft –
We can get a feel, we can speculate and debate, what we shouldnt do is slam doors shut based upon what some org did 2 years ago. This is not a puzzle, all the pieces are not going to fit together perfectly at the end
NYCPetrovic
“The full Mets-Indians trade involves six players switching teams, per sources.
Mets receive: Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco
Indians receive: Amed Rosario, Andrés Giménez, Josh Wolf,
Isaiah Greene”
WOW.
BearcatBuckeye94
Im not upset at this deal as a mets fan. We have Mauricio coming up. And the prospects, arent devestating.
sirklearhead
Mauricio isn’t ready for prime time yet. I’m thinking 23 be the earliest
Birch
This trade does not solve our bigger issues. 3B and CF is a complete joke. Rosario and Gimenez could have evolved into a very good pair in the middle infield. McNeil is almost 30 and can play everywhere in the field. He can also show off his shoddy glove and his noodle arm in those positions.
Would much rather have kept Rosario and Gimenez and addressed SP, 3B, CF in a different manner. No reason we couldn’t sign a Bauer and/or Springer (which we might do anyway) and use McNeil to pull in a quality 3B.
bobtillman
You can have Kevin Kermyer and Yandy Diaz from the Rays for an Ed Charles bobblehead, if you agree to take on KK’s contract.
baseballnerd20
Not giving up the Ed Charles bobblehead for that light return!
Robertowannabe
Could be that talks with Bauer were going nowhere. I do not know what Bauer is looking for but he is from :LA and went to school at UCLA. Quite possible he has no desire to pitch on the east coast for anyone. Considering he has been a little eccentric in his baseball career, I can see that. On the same note I could see him actually sign with any team too. Will be interesting to see what he actually does.
YourDreamGM
I bet Bauer desire to pitch in LA would decrease if a east coast team paid him more money. Just a hunch. He has already lost the desire to sign nothing but 1 year contracts it seems.
letsplaytwo
That’s good stuff nerd!
SadRedsFan
Guillorme could play third base as well. And if JD Davis can recoup some of his 2019 offensive magic, it could help offset his defensive deficiencies. It also helps to have him right next to Lindor — maybe Lindor’s range can help out Davis.
Given the return, it seems like the best deal available, especially if they don’t care how much money they spend.
jim stem
I’m not opposed to giving Davis a full season at 3b, which is his natural position. Let him get up to speed again, defensively, even if that’s just league average.
He is run producing right handed bat who hits lefties and righties. His obp is outstanding and seems to barrel up a ball 3 times a game.
With a full spring training to get ready and the confidence of his coaching stuff, I think Davis is the real deal.
28/100/.285/.850. I’ll take that from the 5 or 6 hole.
Cosmo2
I’d be ok with Davis as an everyday 3B guy too cuz of the bat. But his D is gonna be terrible. His natural position is DH.
rct
@Bearcat: Same here. I didn’t want them to pull any major trades because I thought they’d have to give up more than this. Carrasco makes this deal so much better.
James Midway
Mets fan have been wanting something to happen. I would say you got your wish and then some.
fathead0507
Aww man you mean Yankee fans offer of Voit Andujar didn’t get it done?
MoRivera 1999
Of course we haven’t heard 100 other bad trade proposals on MLBTR this offseason…
dimelotitony
This is a great trade for the Mets as they now can have a switch hitting stud shortstop and another arm to the Rotation you can possibly close the door on Bauer & possibly Springer and they could instead opt for Jackie Bradley.
Indians return is not too bad people are forgetting Lindor will walk and why wait until the season to trade him and risk him getting hurt and thus getting even nothing just wondering if the Indians reached out to any other teams regarding the offer of Lindor & Carrasco?
For the Mets everyone knew that Cohen coming in is going to try and change the dynamics of the team and this bodes well for NY as well across the board gives the Yankees some back page news.
Good for the Mets & once again bad for Mid-Market teams;
Deleted Userrr
They are (allegedly) trying to contend in 2021 is the reason why they should not trade him.
Ma4170
My gut tells me they still sign springer but then maybe hand or a cheap SP option like Hamels
YourDreamGM
@dime. Nope, they only reached out to the mets. Who knows what other teams may have offered. If only they knew that Cleveland was looking to cut salary.
jdgoat
There’s legitimately going to be maybe 5 teams tops that come out of the offseason looking like they’re trying to win a World Series in 2021. Baseball is killing itself.
seamaholic 2
Agreed. As a part-time Mets fan, I love this. I think they may be better than the Yankees now. As a baseball fan, I hate it. There are big big problems in the industry.
NY_Yankee
You need to be concerned about the Braves not the Yankees
DarkSide830
no there arent
Robertowannabe
There are not problems now but if viewership on TV keeps going down outside of NY, LA and Chicago, The game will decline as the National TV money will go down and put a bite in to the finances. Until then, the game is still in ok shape.
ohyeadam
If they want more viewers in those markets they should stop the blackouts
DarkSide830
i dont think not making a big splash means you aren’t trying to compete. look at the Rays last year for example.
iml12
And they are all in the NL east
YourDreamGM
Not that enticing to pay the price for talent when you can’t have the benefits of a full ball park.
bobtillman
Ya but the Yanks got Greg Allen.
Whiskey and leather balls
Who is running the indians now? 8 year olds running around trading baseball cards and big league chew? This is a flippin disgrace to baseball and whatever the h*ll the indians want to call themselves now
YourDreamGM
Smart move for the indians.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Terry Francona is their highest paid person on the team now!
Oldman58
Sure Cleveland got fleeced but compared to Cubs GM Jed Hoyer he looks like the President of Mensa.
seamaholic 2
Cubs did fine. They got a really solid SP and Yu is 35. They might well have won that deal.
PhilliesRBad
@daddytbone
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Teams don’t win trades the day they are announced. Give it three years and we’ll see who truly won these trades.
iml12
I actually like Hoyers return more than this one and they don’t give up 2 really really good players.
YourDreamGM
Same here. A lot more. Prospect quality is similar. Cubs got twice as many. Rather have Davies to trade vs 2 light hitters.
I would take carasco over yu. And lindor over the catcher.
SadRedsFan
Prospect quality is similar?!?! In what way?
Mets have one of the worst farm systems in the league and gave up their 9th + 10th prospects. Cubs got 4 top-20 prospects in a stacked Padres farm. You can make the argument that every single prospect the Cubs got is better than any prospect the Indians did.
And btw, you’re putting too much weight into a pitcher that’s been injured for much of the last few years. Carrasco isn’t as good as Yu.
YourDreamGM
Similar as far as value. The two Mets prospects are on par (actually even better I wanted to play it safe) with what padres gave the Cubs. Did you rank these prospects and all 30 teams prospects or just going off some website? Green is about right but wolf is higher than 9 for me.
Cookie looked fine to me last season and before that he had cancer so I will cut him a break. And I never said he was better than Yu. I said I would take him over yu.
jim stem
@sadredsfan. Before bashing the Mets farm system, please realize that:
1b Alonso. Roy mlb record hr
2b McNeil. Hit machine
SS. Rosario/Gimenez just used to acquire a top 5 SS
3b. Davis acq for minors
LF Dom Smith
CF. Nimmo
RF. Conforto
C.
Sp. deGrom. 2 time cy
Sp. Carrasco acq for minors
Sp Peterson
Sp. Lugo
Sp. Matz. Weakest link
Rp. Diaz. Acq for minors
Rp. Gsellman.
Rp. Familia
The Mets farm system has been pretty darn lucrative in recent years, so it might only be logical that it’s thin right now.
Fg-3
It’s about time the Mets made a deal like this!! Good for them. But still by far second fiddle in nyc congrats though!!
DarkSide830
what moves have the Yankees done this offseason?
juanc-2
Greg Allen, duh
RobM
DarkSide, you’re obviously not a New Yorker.
rangers92
Now the Mets need to trade Dom Smith and JD Davis for more prospects to replenish their farm.
Then sign DJL and George Springer.
jim stem
I think Davis and Smith are fine right where they are now. Both are young and productive hitters with great work ethics. If the NL adopts the DH or Alonso misses time, either one can move to 1B.
The only reason to bolster the minors is to acquire more pitching depth and add fringe vets at the top level in the event of injuries. You don’t trade young guys with proven mlb track records when you are contending to add guys who might never wear a Mets uniform.
NY_Yankee
Cohen should be wearing a black mask because this is robbery
Moneyballer
I disagree.
VonPurpleHayes
Mets gave up a lot. It was a great move for the win-now Mets, but they gave up 2 prospects and 2 young, mlb talents. They took on money. And Lindor is a rental who could possibly test FA next year. So I absolutely love the move for the Mets, but it is not robbery.
Ma4170
Agreed
iml12
Rosario has had a pretty good look, I think he is what he is at this point. Two flyer prospects, bench player and Gimenez. I’d say the Mets did really well and if they extend Lindor this is an absolute slam dunk. This trade seems light for Carrasco by himself considering his contract.
davidk1979
Holy crap the Mets got Lindor and Carasco without giving up a top prospect! Lindor is an elite player easy top ten player in the sport and Carasco is the most underrated pitcher in baseball and arguably better than Bauer! Thank you Sandy and Porter!
Poster formerly known as . . .
Hat tip to Cohen. He’s spending on his team, as promised.
Polish Hammer
Two of their top 4 prospects are shortstops so they bring back two SSs in the deal? SMH…
empirejim
Trade chips?
chip chipperson
Was that? Tss
PhilliesRBad
@Polish Hammer
You make it sound as if having talented shortstops is a bad thing. You do realize that they can play other positions on the field right?
CNichols
You can usually move players off of SS to 3B/2B/CF/LF etc… pretty easily because they have the defensive skillsets to handle other positions, whereas if you have a ton of 1B prospects for example, you’re kinda stuck with them blocking each other because they’re less versatile.
A lot of the best farm systems sign/draft a ton of shortstops knowing that some will naturally get moved off the position as they develop and if not they can probably learn other positions. If you look at the Rays, probably like 5 or 6 of their top 20 prospects are SS. Padres did this too when they went big in international spending a few years back, basically just signed all the SS knowing they could move them elsewhere if necessary.
Polish Hammer
Their top prospect is a 3B who is blocked by Ramirez.
These SS aren’t short term, both are very young and controllable, both SS prospects should be in Cleveland by next season.
Moving one to 2B makes sense, but they won’t be going to 3B and don’t fit anywhere else.
The Tribe needed an OF with pop.
CNichols
Wait are you talking about Rocchio and Freeman? Or Arias?
Rocchio is 19 and hasn’t played above low A ball. He’s not coming in 2021, maybe he gets there 2022, but he probably needs like at least 2 more years in the minors to hit before he’s ready. Freeman at least played high A and he’s 21, but again I don’t know if you can really count on him to get there in 2021, probably should take a year at AA then come up in 2022. Arias is the same issue, 20 years old and never played above High A.
Basically who knows what CLE’s roster is going to look like in 2023, its still a good thing to have multiple options for SS/2B/LF. You don’t know who is going to pan out from that group, but maybe you have Arias in LF, Freeman at 2B and Gimenez at SS in 2023. Or some other combination. It’s not a bad thing to have those options.
Polish Hammer
Meant next year (2022] not next season (2021). You give up a franchise icon and top 10 player in all of MLB you’d better get more than fill a hole for a year.
CNichols
Yeah I don’t disagree with that, I guess my point is just its not bad to have numerous middle infielders/middle infield prospects. Its still value, even if its not the specific OF with pop replacement that you wanted.
I’d way rather have this return that what the Cubs got for Darvish.
YourDreamGM
These ss are more short term. Their prospects are a few years away.
sirklearhead
Who backs up Lindor ?
RobM
Springer in CF? :: -)
Bill M
Luis Guillorme. He’s a perfectly fine backup
ssfd209
Well Great! There goes the Bluejays Big off season Plan!
empirejim
Wait… I thought only the Padres were allowed to make huge deals this offseason???
Say Hey Now Kid
I was hoping to keep Gimenez as utility guy and future 2b or 3b, but I’ll take it. Didn’t have to give up big prospects either
Moneyballer
Mets better hope Lindor bounces back because in 2020 he was not good. That was definitely not a superstar effort last season.
Avory
Lindor was superficially OK with the bat in ’20 and superficially good with the stick in ’19. The truth is, you’d have a difficult time compiling much of a highlight reel from the last two years, strictly using LIndor’s AB’s. And that’s because he hit less than .190 with RISP over that time. When the Tribe needed him the most, he provided very very little. That’s a stretch of well over 200 games of hitting 50% worse than the average player–the AVERAGE player!– in that situation. He’s pressing in big spots, chasing pitches, hitting pop-ups and weak grounders…now he might relax in New York (why, I have no idea) but for Cleveland fans, he’s been a massive disappointment over the last two years, especially when the expectation was that he’d have monster seasons in his prime years when he was closing in on free agency.
Didn’t happen.
NOT saying they are at all comparable, but just realize that Francisco Lindor and Andres Gimenez had EXACTLY the same OPS+ in 2020: 102. So spare me the idea that paying Lindor $22m this year is something the Tribe needs to be doing when they can pay the minimum for Gimenez AND have him for four more years after that.
1bertu
is Bieber next?
NY_Yankee
Bieber to the Yankees for any player they want except “The Martian” or Cole ( even Judge)
DarkSide830
if you wouldnt do Jasson for Bieber straight up you are absurd
iml12
I am sure part of the appeal was shipping Lindor and Carrasco out of the AL.
solaris602
I’m betting Jose Ramirez is next
RobM
He’s cheap, so he’s staying put…for now.
yanks02026
So the Indians get one top prospect and one decent MLB player. What the h*ll are they doing.
angt222
Would have preferred to keep Giménez and include a player like Davis instead. Certainly didn’t think Isiah Greene would be included either.
bravesfan
Seems like quite a meh haul for the Indians for what they gave up. I mean come on… lol 2 players of this caliber should empty a farm system like the Mets. Of course, I’m bias and want the Mets to more than overpay, so maybe I’m not rationally thinking.
It’s prob a fine trade, but I hate it
YourDreamGM
Indians did fine. I like wolf more than ranking sites do. And it’s a player coming off a weak year and 1 year left that isn’t cheap. And a good pitcher who has surplus but isn’t that cheap. And only good hauls the past year have been given by the padres.
JoeBrady
Cleveland got a healthy haul. Lindor is an excellent player, but he is worth about 5 WAR for one season. Gimenez looks like an adequate bat with an outstanding glove.. Rosario is a bit all over the place, but he was plenty good in 2019.
In addition, both these guys step in and start immediately.
Wolf & Greene are a bit far away, but both were recent high picks.
lolzmets
“Meh” is not a word. Expand your vocabulary, and resist the laziness of typing out sounds.
deadspy3 2
Says ‘lolz’ Mets?!
MoRivera 1999
lolzmets: you expand YOUR vocabulary. Meh IS a word. Don’t be an uninformed troll.
meh
/me,me,me/
informal exclamation
exclamation: meh
expressing a lack of interest or enthusiasm.
“Meh. I’m not impressed so far”
adjective
adjective: meh
uninspiring; unexceptional.
“a lot of his movies are … meh”
lolzmets
Yes, I take it back. You guys look like geniuses typing out the sound “meh”. At this rate by the time we get to the millennial’s grandchildren they will be back to scratching out messages on the side of cave walls. I’m at least informed enough not to look like a moron typing out sounds on the internet.
Bill M
Don’t worry. You look like a perfectly fine moron.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Rosario sucks. Tribe couldn’t swing McNeil instead?
YourDreamGM
Mets hope to extend him. Would be great likable super star for team. Carasco is nice piece for rotation. Mets didn’t give up anything amazing. So far only the padres pay a good price for players.
RobM
Carrasco is your second best starter at this point until Thor returns, and even then, he still might be your second best starter. He’s healthy now.
YourDreamGM
Agree. Noah has had a hard time capitalizing on his talent. Stroman is just a guy.
Whiskey and leather balls
Better be a Dominic Smith attached to this that just hasnt been reported yet
BearcatBuckeye94
Rosario, Gimenez, Greene, Wolf for Lindor and Carrasco finalized
Ryan W
Congrats Mets fans
tribetime1
Rosario to 2B, Jimenez to short. Plugs the hole at second for the tribe but still need OF help.
alc47
Doesn’t look like Rosario is in the deal
alc47
Nm just looked it up, I guess he is! Sad to see Rosario go for sure.
ckln88
They literally gave up chump change for those two.
DarkSide830
i wouldnt say that, but the deal does look a bit lacking from CLE’s front vs what Boston got for Mookie
YourDreamGM
Pandemic hurt trade values. Just nobody told the padres.
dimelotitony
Now what will the Indians do with Bieber & Ramirez they won’t say REbuild but they can really get a great package for each individually which is scary if they make Ramirez available you will have lots of competition for his services. He can easily be plugged in with the Dodgers, Yankees, Boston just to name a few;
YourDreamGM
They will wait until their years of control left are around 2 2.5 maybe 1.5 and trade them.
mccourtscorpse
Dodger fan happy for Mets fan
Have enjoyed the rivalry over the years and NY retooling works for me
Sleeper
I’m pretty surprised this is the best that Cleveland could do for both Lindor and Carrasco. Not that it’s an absolute nothing package, but Lindor is/was the best MIF seemingly available and Carrasco is probably #2 available SP behind Bauer. You could argue the fact that there are still valuable options at SP/SS that will only cost money to acquire and maybe that limited leverage to a degree, but… that’s gotta be a little be deflating for Tribe fans. Good for the Mets.
NMK 2
Not sure I’d call Carrasco a top starting option. He’s entering his mid-30s, has thrown exactly 200 innings in a season once and has a 3.77 career ERA. He’s probably closer to a middle/back of rotation option and shouldn’t keep Cohen from seeing another full-time starter.
NMK 2
Timed out before I could edit.
His FIP is slightly lower (3.42), so maybe there’s a little more optimism. He still gives up plenty of base runners with a WHIP over 1..
Sleeper
Wouldn’t argue with your take, Carrasco is probably better categorized as a very good arm to slot somewhere behind an ace rather than as the ace. Was more of a comment on the arms available via FA, it’s hard not to compare him favorably to the likes of Tanaka/Odorizzi.
RobM
He’s the Mets second best starter. Who would you rank ahead? Thor certainly has the capability, but he won’t be back until midseason and under restrictions.
Carrasco is regularly viewed as one of the more underrated top pitchers in the game, and your comment supports that. A quick review:
-2020–2.91 ERA/157 ERA+ Made every start. 1.6 WAR in a 60 game season, which prorates out to a 4.32 WAR over a 162 game season. That’s right on par with:
-2014-2018 — 3.27 ERA/3.01 FIP/133 ERA+. That’s over five seasons, averaging 4 WAR a season, so he was right back on track in 2020.
We’re going to give him a bit of a pass on 2019 as he was fighting life and death! He came back in top form in 2020.
He put up those pitching numbers in the DH league.
You can believe that’s a back-end, or even mid-range starter, but that’s actually a frontend starter. As I said, he’s the Mets #2 starter right now in what is a deep rotation. And I am not a Met fan. Just stating facts.
Sleeper
FWIW I love Carrasco (Lindor too), he’s been one of my favorite pitchers pretty much since he emerged as a consistent contributor. He isn’t quite true ace territory for me in 2021, and he is getting up there in age, but I agree that mid-back is a little harsh. Depending on the depth and options around him, he’d fit nicely in just about any rotation between 2-3 spot. to start the 2021 season.
LordD99
…about the only argument against Carrasco being a front-end starter is he’s not someone who you can *guarantee* will take the ball 30 plus starts and 200 innings, but even the top starters don’t go 200 innings often now, and guess what? Carrasco is one of a handful of starters who has pitched 200 innings in a season in 2017 and 192 in 2018. Those were his two most recent seasons before the health issue, and as you said he took the ball for every start in 2020. An argument is he’s one of the more durable starters. The Mets just snagged him for the next three seasons if they opt to take his reasonable option year. A very good addition to the Mets staff.
YourDreamGM
Without full parks, 29 teams don’t want to pay as much.
JoeBrady
Do you know anything about the Met players?
Rosario is a bit of a wildcard, but he had a 2.4 WAR at age 23. The NYMs likely brought him up to young, but he was ranked in the top-10.
The gem in the trade, imo, is Gimenez. he was a top-30 prospect, with an outstanding rookie year. And, again, the NYMs brought him up too young.
If you think he is a nothing player, then I seriously question your judgement.
Sleeper
Not quite sure where in translation that “not that it’s an absolute nothing package” became “Gimenez is a nothing player”, but that isn’t what I said. The Indians got some good pieces in the deal, Gimenez included. The return still feels light for both players, but not astonishingly light. I’ll probably give the Indians a C on the poll when it comes out.
JoeBrady
Not quite sure where in translation that “not that it’s an absolute nothing package” became “Gimenez is a nothing player”, but that isn’t what I said.
————————————————————–
Perhaps you didn’t mean it that way, but that is literally exactly what you said.
If I gave someone $50 for a package, and you said it was a nothing package, then what other interpretation is there than nothing in the package is worth much. By definition, the value of each piece in the package has to be worth less than the total value of the package.
The individual pieces cannot be worth more than the total.
Sleeper
I can’t say I woke up today looking to get into a debate on linguistics, but I quite literally said that it’s NOT a nothing package, not that it WAS an absolute nothing package. I could reword it “not that it’s an awful return” or “not that there’s nothing to CLE’s return” etc, it will still read the same way. The point I’m trying to make is that CLE did get some value and that was me trying to acknowledge that while also expressing that it feels lighter than I would have guessed.
JoeBrady
LOL! Actually, you didn’t get into a debate. I just re-re-read what you wrote, and I just re-re-woke the frack up.
Lo siente.
Sleeper 1
Joey -1
Sleeper
Happens to the best of us my man. Have a cup of coffee and onto the next one!
MoRivera 1999
“not that it’s an absolute nothing package” does not mean “is a nothing package.” That’s some sleight of hand.
Marty McRae
Surprised? It’s ONE year of Lindor, Cleveland absolutely won this trade, but its one of those trades that the Mets aren’t supposed to win, because they are trying to directly get a title this season, and if you win a title, you can’t say any moves that you made that allowed you to get that title are a loss.
Sleeper
It’s one year of Lindor AND Carrasco, who again, was probably the 2nd best SP truly available at this point. I sort of figured he alone would net a solid return, depending on how the money on his money would be spread. Cleveland could absolutely come on top with this deal, but you probably have to be pretty damn bullish to call it that way right now.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Lindor would be smart to not sign an extension with the Mets. Plus they still have a about 72mil left on Cano’s contract. And 38mil for 3/38 for Carrqsco
Benny_Agbayani
What planet are you living on?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Jupiter. Why? Because Lindor should test the open market in 2022?
vtadave
Or he could lock in generational wealth this winter.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Why would he do that if he knows he’ll get minimum 300mil. If he wins mvp or has a tremendous year. That could bump him up to 30-50 mil for the same 9-11 years.
Rbase
I’m surprised that the Indians didn’t get any corner outfielders in the deal. McNeil and Conforto were probably off the table but a guy like Nimmo would be much more valuable to them than Rosario.
Anyway, congrats Mets fans! You finally have an owner who is willing to go for it! Now you’re just 2 bullpen arms (for example Hand + Petit) and a no. 4 starter (Rich Hill/Jose Quintana/…) away from being a legitimate world series contender.
DarkSide830
i honestly think they’re good on the SP front at least from thwir perspective. Matz is probably serviceable as the #5 while you could replace him, Peterson, or whoever gets injured once Thor gets back to full strength. (no need to rush him back)
Rbase
When I see the rotation I don’t see anyone that you can reasonably expect to throw 200+ innings outside of DeGrom. Stroman didn’t pitch last year, Syndergard is coming of TJ, Carrasco has had issues (and reached 200 innings exactly once) and Peterson and Matz are not good enough at this point. The bullpen should be priority no. 1 though.
NMK 2
I think they need to sign another mid-rotation arm (Bauer if they’re feeling crazy). Not only should they not be heavily-reliant on Matz after last year, but baseball players get hurt.
1. JdG
2. Stroman
3. Carrasco
4. Peterson
5. ?? (Matz, Lugo, etc.)
6. ???
Moneyballer
Compared to when they had Wheeler and Thor in that rotation, this rotation is WEAKSAUCE.
Cap & Crunch
I am surprised one of Dom or JD didnt make it over indeed –
What a coup for the Mets to still hold those 2 high variance hitters in the system
I like Garrett Richards on a 2 yr deal for them to wrap up the pitching = Can prolly be had around a 2/14 and a worthwhile investment imo
Cosmo2
Trading Nimmo would have been subtracting too much from what the Mets need to win now for the trade to make sense for them.
User 589131137
This. Once again: let’s trade assets for money relief and not actually IMPROVE the team by receiving players in return we need.
Jal179
People are hating waaaayyyyy to hard on the Indians return. They just cleared themselves $30 million in salary for someone they could have lost for nothing and a 2/3 starter who has a hematological malignancy which news flash everyone can recur.
Rosario is a legit MLB SS, Gimenez is no slouch either paired along with a couple of other mid tier prospects.
As a Jays fan, I’m actually happy they didn’t make a trade for a potential one year rental who frankly had a mediocre season at best. With the historical SS FA class in 2022, I like the patience shown by Shatkins.
YourDreamGM
I like the return. If padres needed a ss it could have been better but must have been the best they could get. About what I expected. Clevelands guys didn’t have much contract surplus. Wolf is a great prospect. The outfielder isn’t bad either.
Luc 2
Mets got fleeced cuz they know they wont make playoffs lmao
Ma4170
I agree… as a Mets fan I’m thrilled to get lindor and carrasco, but didn’t love giving up both rosario and gimenez… it’s a no brainer, but both can be good MLB players… Greene has real upside as does wolf, but Greene’s athleticism could play great in a few years
Marty McRae
Trade is an obvious short term upgrade/long term loss for the Mets, which won’t matter to them if they win the World Series this year.
Marty McRae
Gimenez is literally a better SS than Rosario, he proved it last season.
My bet is on Rosario is getting flipped to a team with a SS need, like Oakland.
its_happening
Yep. I’m fine with the Jays giving Bo another year at SS to see if he continues his progress defensively.
heinie manush
CLV payroll now $40 m, lots of options. Their excellent SP and RP remains intact.
A couple of FA bats and they’re back to contending?
YourDreamGM
Easily. Thought it wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t address the outfield via free agency. I like Pederson or jbj. But even Kyle or pillar. Bieber will be gone before we know it. But indians have lots of arms on the way.
Cap & Crunch
Leverage is the key word
Nice route Cohen , the market ineffeciency was always to go after teams hurting in the pocketbooks not the free agent market as so many wanted you to pursue
If Im a Mets fan Im happy to see Cohen choose this route rather than just throw money around in free agency. It shows he sees all colors in the spectrum
YourDreamGM
These free agents want pre pandemic money. Mets said heck with you guys, have fun waiting for that money, we have better options.
Cap & Crunch
Exactly- Toronto Philly Nyy have to be licking their chops right now
Im all about the fans, less guaranteed yrs Springer Bauer JTR and DJ get the better for the sport –
These guys want 5+ years then the trend needs to start becoming a smaller AAV towards the end – This aint collusion this is finally Gms waking up and saying No more
Going to be soo interesting when all the numbers come in, I think teams finally get a W in the free agency column this year, not saying thats the way it should be every year but interesting as a case study and in the moment to breakdown
kreckert
Wow. The Met’s being functional both on and off the field is going to take some getting used to.
Preposterously premature NL East Prediction:
1 Braves
2 Mets (wild card)
3 Marlins
4 Nats
5 Phillies.
I regard the Nats and Philles as interchangeable since neither organization seems to know which end is up, at the moment. And I say that as a Philly fan who really believed in my team a year ago.
But congrats to Mets fans, I guess. You’re interesting and relevant for all the right reasons.
MetsFan22
I agree but Braves fans shouldn’t sit comfortably. I could easily see the Mets winning . But if I had to bet I’d bet Braves.
RobM
I think this move, adding Lindor and a top starter. puts the Mets in the lead. More moves likely coming, too.
VonPurpleHayes
@MetsFan22 now that the Mets got a solid pitcher and a superstar SS too boot, I finally agree with some of your takes. The Mets are clearly above the Nats, Marlins and Phillies on paper. They’re inching closer to the Braves and will battle it out for the division. Now anything can happen, I still expect some moves by some NL East teams, but the Mets have pulled themselves out of mediocrity…on paper at least.
MetsFan22
Thanks
Rking
Took you a long time to post, first thing I thought when I saw the trade at work was Metsfan22 is probably on Mlbtr right now saying I told you so.
MetsFan22
I was working lol
Luc 2
I think Nats will be better than mets only if they sign a big bat because the Nats can actually get to the playoffs
VonPurpleHayes
Swap the Nats and Marlins and I agree with you. I think Bell has a bit of a rebound year and the Nats pitching should be better by virtue of health. The Phillies are a mess, even if JTR comes back (which I still doubt).
larry48
Mets are not done, just wait for Mets ahead of braves. Marlin’s won’t’ be in third place. 2020 was a fluke for Marlins will not happen over 162 they will be last where they belong..
Loling @ you
On paper to me mets look better, to many holes for Braves. Mets rotation is better and positionally mets are right there maybe even more balanced than Braves especially after this trade
MrMet1979 2
Alderson with another masterpiece. Gets Lindor and finds a suitable replacement for Wheeler without giving up D.Smith or McNeil. I hope BVW is watching from home because this is what a win now trade looks like.
Benny_Agbayani
BVW was a clown but let’s be real… this trade would have never happened under the Coupons. Only make this move if you have the cash to sign him long-term
MrMet1979 2
When did I say BVW was a good GM? Read the comments properly bro. This trade still happens under the Wilpons if Alderson is running the show. They paid Beltran, Bay ,Wright, Cespedes and Degrom so stop acting like they never spent any money. They just made the mistake of hiring an idiot to replace Alderson. A GMs job is to convince the owners to take risks and spend money. BVW could’ve easily resigned Wheeler and the Wilpons would’ve cut a check. But he wanted to pay Robinson Cano, Familla and Lowrie instead smh.
Benny_Agbayani
haha looks like you were the one to misread MY comment. YIKES. I was agreeing BVW was terrible. There is no chance this was happening under Wilpons, welcome to being a Mets fan though…
MrMet1979 2
I’ve been a Mets since I was 5. I’m 41 now you just like the sound of your own voice bro. The point is they did spend money maybe not to the desired result but they made some sort of effort. Alderson would’ve easily sold this trade to the Wilpons. Btw do you have any physical proof of the Wilpons rejecting a trade or a player that would’ve made the Mets a better team. Please provide an examples if you actually have any
YourDreamGM
Good move even if he walks. I am sure they will either sign him or run up his price tag for another team.
Bruin1012
Agreed the new owner is the real reason for this trade. He is the richest owner in baseball and the days of Wilpons nonsense are over. Congrats to Mets fans you finally have an owner that wants to win and do what it takes.
MrMet1979 2
You say that but their were numerous players that got paid under the Wilpons’nonsense Alderson still makes this trade with Jeff Wilpon here. They always respected his opinion.
Bruin1012
Just be happy you have a real owner now the richest owner money won’t be an issue anymore at all. I’m not saying he is going to be stupid and just ignore value but you have a real owner now congrats.
MrMet1979 2
We had a real owner before they just weren’t baseball fans they were businessmen. The Wilpons spent plenty of money I can’t blame them if things didn’t work out. You can’t sign everybody. Over the years they paid Beltran, Pedro, Wagner, Bay, Wright, Cespedes and Degrom and traded for Johan Santana. And then they let BVW bring in Cano’s terrible contract so they weren’t as cheap as you might’ve been lead to believe. It was more of the wrong people working for them.
Bruin1012
That maybe true but I guarantee you no way Cohen let’s Wheeler walk if he was the owner then.
MrMet1979 2
I agree 100% that Cohen doesn’t let Wheeler walk because he’s a die hard Met fan.The Wilpons left that decision in the hands of BVW he openly stated that he didn’t feel Wheeler was worth that type of money. It’s up to the GM to convince the owners to make moves and spend the money. He never even made the effort or picked up the phone when Wheeler’s representatives called the Mets. Terrible decision
datrain021
Paul Dolan is the worst owner in MLB!!!
RobM
It seems to be a family issue. James Dolan is a nightmare too.
JoeBrady
Yup, and except for the fact that Cleveland wins 90+ games every year, and makes the playoffs every year, you’d be right.
YourDreamGM
Maybe so but not because of this trade.this was a good move
manfraud
Awesome trade, plus I think the Mets are the only team with a backstop shortstop
RazorRamonie
why am I still a fan of this organization? We knew they were not keeping Lindor but giving up Cookie as well what a disappointment can’t buy their merchandise cause well they pandered to the pansies may as well jump ship or just stop supporting any pro sports team.
YourDreamGM
Cookie was a fan favorite but a expensive unnecessary piece of the rotation. With limited fans it is a good year to part with players.
NYYstateofmind
Thatta boy cuba, now you’re thinking!! Why should you care about the team when ownership doesn’t? The Dolans just $h!t all over you AND they’ll do it again if you let them. Now take a deep breath & walk it off & we’ll see ya in the Bronx.
JoeBrady
Why The Bronx?
Cleveland finished ahead of the Yankees last year.
Cleveland finished 1st 3x in 8 years, while the NYY finished 1st 1x.
And, if you buy Indian season tickets, you can call ahead and tell them what time to start the game.
NYYstateofmind
Well to begin with, Cleveland has won 2 titles in their existence & nothing since 48.
But your final point does give me cause for pause, Lol.
Keep the faith my friend.
towinagain
Way to go Mets! Good pick up. Pads fan but always soft spot for the Mets
JoeBrady
Between him and Giminez, it looks like the Indians got top quality depth.
—————————————–
They’re not depth. I guarantee both are starters.
Marty McRae
Gimenez might outperform Lindor by himself, and Rosario could too.
CLE has a long term INF of: Ramirez-Gimenez-Rosario-Nolan Jones (from 3B-1B), that is extremely good.
rangers92
Ramirez only has 2 years left right?
Figured he would be traded to the Braves
Mjm117
Wow, Excellent deal for the Mets. Need to readup on Wolf and Green but this looks like an absolute steal . lolCleveland.
Mets have no excuse not to at least compete for the wild card with this move.
Marlins… DO SOMETHING!!! .
Ma4170
Greene great athleticism, top flight speed, but a long term project who could pay off huge… wolf some real talent but needs to work on control, another long term high upside guy… I figured teams might be looking at these two
YourDreamGM
I love wolf. Both huge upside guys.
Marty McRae
Mets got wrecked on this trade for one year of Lindor.
User 589131137
Blind.
iml12
They got 3 years of Carrasco too
Bruin1012
Yea maybe if it was just Lindor but you seem to forget Carrasco is in the trade as well. This was a good get for the Mets no doubt.
Moneyballer
Mets are such a short-sighted franchise. It’s no wonder they never amount to much.
Luc 2
Mets will still find away to not make playoffs LOL
Robertowannabe
In Carrasco’s first start, he jams a batter and the batter pops it up but not real high between short and the pitcher and both Carrasco and Lindor bolt for the ball……they collide and both are out for months, each with a serious shoulder injury…
@Luc 2’s prediction of failing to reach the playoffs comes true…..
Ma4170
So do the Mets still sign springer (and then maybe Hand)? If they do, then I might consider them a legit contender for division
YourDreamGM
Only if Springer is closer to 100 than 150. Mets are willing to spend but only if it’s value. They are in on Bauer of it’s closer to 20 opposed to 35.
5toolMVP
Half the league is in on Bauer if it’s close to 20. Lol
as a comp… Corbin got 23.3m Aav in 2018 (Similar career #s thru 2020)
It’s gonna be more like 28m-36m for Bauer.
Ma4170
If it’s 5/125 for springer then Mets may pull the trigger… I guess we’ll find out
Fly over fan
and………… the Mets win the off season
Robertowannabe
Who knows? The Padres make a pretty good claim for that. By the way, what does the winner of the offseason get? Plenty of offseason winners never with the big prize in winning the World Series
Brew’88
Then there are the perennial regular season winners that never win WS. Until 2020 the Dodgers for example
Lemonade24
Ok good good good
Paul Griggs
I wish Lindor and Carrasco luck with the Mets. I don’t think the Indians got much in return for one very good player and one pretty good player. This helps the Twins and White Sox.
Marty McRae
Gimenez and Rosario combined will EASILY outperform Lindor, Cleveland cleaned up here.
yanks02026
LOL
paddyo furnichuh
That’s a bold prediction! Let’s suppose that:
Lindor produces 5.5bWAR in 2021, and Gimenez/ Rosario produce a combined 5.7 bWAR (much less likely).
You seem that as “cleaning up?”
Maybe you mean simply cleaning up after themselves, which is more a accurate analogy at this time.
Again, it’s laughable when someone determines who the winner is on the day of or day after a trade.
Time is the ultimate determinant.
Robertowannabe
If you add Lindor was not resigning with Cleveland, then yes, I would say they did very well. If Lindor does not resign with the Mets and the rest of your hypothetical scenario holds true, then they did clean up
5toolMVP
Nice deal for the Mets. Congrats. Kinda pissed the Angels didn’t get Carrasco.
dopt
Who pays SS/2B for Indians this year?
JoeBrady
Ginemez/Rosario. that was the whole intent of the trade.
jim stem
Rosario is a shortstop, period. It’s Gimenez that has effectively moved around the infield and probably slots in as the everyday 2b.
Great deal for the Mets for 2020!
Canosucks
Happy New Year
Thank You Cohen
I love it…
paddyo furnichuh
Similar to the LAD and SDP, now ATL has a serious divisional rival. MYM may very well be the favorites in the East, depending upon what other deals occur.
Braves2019
As you can see from my username Im a Braves fan lol. If the Braves don’t bring back Ozuna or replace his bat, I have the Mets winning the division. If we bring him back or replace him with a nice bat I still have the Braves winning it. The Mets are definitely scary, lets see if they can stay healthy for a season though.
paddyo furnichuh
Braves2019, I agree, the Braves need another quality middle of the order bat. It would great if owners and MLBPA could come to terms on an agreement for this season that definitively spells out the DH in the NL. It hurts many organizations, but the players even more.
I’ll be surprised if the two sides come to terms before late February.
joseluish22160
Mets doing Mets things.
jkoch717
I would guess that the Mets are out on both Bauer and LaMahieu and will focus on Springer. If they miss on him, they’ll fall back to DJ.
This probably puts LaMahieu with the Blue Jays and the Yankees are left holding the bag. Just a guess.
Rsox
We don’t know how serious the Mets were on LeMahieu or Bauer anyway. If I’m the Mets i refrain from overpaying Springer and instead try to work out an extension for Lindor. The Mets OF isn’t in terrible shape and a cheaper option could probably be had elsewhere. Unless of course Cohen doesn’t feel as if having the two on big money contracts is a problem
jkoch717
I think they’ll have an extension signed with Lindor soon, but they could still use more thump instead of relying on some players repeating their performance. Adding Springer adds that, pushes Nimmo to a 4th OF role and deepens the roster.
MetsKnicks49ers
Nimmo and his near 400 OBP as a 4th OF? Look at his numbers since 18, even with a terrible injury plagued 2019 he still had a 370+ OBP. Dudes a stud and one of the best OF in the game.
rct
I don’t see how this makes them more apt to get Springer. Lindor upgrades the already great offense. Now he’s also a player who will need a big deal next offseason (Thor, Stroman, Conforto, and now Lindor). I can’t imagine them adding another big contract to upgrade the offense any further. Maybe a mid-level starting pitcher but that’s about it. I would not be surprised if the Mets were ‘done’ as far as big moves go.
bobtillman
Mets fans, please get your noses out of Baseball America. They made a GREAT deal…what they gave up would have been a GREAT deal if it was for Lindor by himself. You get Carassco as a chaser, and he’s a VERY VERY good get.
You’re reminding me of Dodger fans last year: “What are We going to do without VERDUGO!!!!”
Answer: They did OK. Not knocking the Mets suspects; I’m sure they’re fine. But it’s Frankie Lindor, for Chr***t’s sake.
JoeBrady
You’re reminding me of Dodger fans last year: “What are We going to do without VERDUGO!!!!”
———————————————————–
Said no one, ever.
hittingnull
Good job not fixing up the rotation, Yankees.
Rsox
Wow. Indians got a nice haul back (thanks to the inclusion of Carrasco). Rosario and Gimenez will make up the double play combo but the rotation definitely gets weaker without Carrasco. Bieber, Civale, Plesac, McKenzie, Plutko/Quantrill could still keep the Indians in the post season picture.
Greenmamba559
Actually a good deal by the Mets getting a premier SS and cookie, don’t know about the pitching prospects and personally don’t see neither gimenez or rosario being all stars going to Cleveland. I really don’t get Cleveland’s plans. Wonder if they could’ve got a better prospect haul closer to the deadline and teams deciding to go all in to make a push? O well good for the Mets.
YourDreamGM
Probably not. Teams like the comp pick or chance to extend.
BrianS
Like this deal for both sides. Cleveland gets some value back at a price they can afford and the Mets add a couple impact players. Exciting time for the Mets fans.
I wonder if this move was made because they did not like the chances of adding a Springer or Bauer in free agency anymore? Or is signing a big free agent still on the table?
parkers
BVW could have succeeded if Cohen was owner. Sandy is sitting in a great position with Money no problem. Great get in Lindor and Carasco, but Indians are getting two really good young players who have had major league experience. When you talk about minor leaguers it is still a question mark till they do it in majors. People talk about what number prospect a minor leaguer is rated. Rosario has 3 years experience and getting out of NY may be the thing he needed. Second half of 2019 was great for him. Giminez showed a lot of poise and defensive ability in his time last season. Together with two good prospects and financial relief, Indians did good.
Ezpkns34
Dare I say, a nice a move by the Mess?
didi gregorious nose
dang i like the trade but i really like gimenez, im sure rosario will thrive in cleveland, away from the ny pressure also i can see gimenez becoming a stud quietly. the mets won the trade today but cleveland will have the last laugh
Very Barry
Really like the deal for the Mets. They have no reason to pursue Springer or Bauer any longer, Tough day for Springer and Bauer. We are about to find out just how real the Toronto money is. Somebody better take it quick. No real spenders left on the market. I am sure that agents are blowing up San Francisco today. Not sure if J.T. Realmuto see’s anything more than 4 years, $80 million. Got to think Colorado now has to actually try to make the Arrenado move to the Dodgers. No place left to send him where he will agree to go. Cubs have no trade partner for Kris Bryant without eating at least half of his $18 million this season. Bryant could have gotten a deal in the $250 million range from Cubs a couple of years ago. He chose to pout about service time thinking he would screw the Cubs. He instead screwed himself. He will be looking at a 1-year deal on free agent market next year in the $7-10 million range if he can manage to stay healthy this year. Big if!
iml12
Bryant definitely should of taken that contract extension from the cubs. With that said, any semblance of a rebound and he’s getting a multi year deal worth way more than 7-10 million.
Deleted Userrr
How can you say that without knowing what the Cubs offered or what others teams will offer Bryant next year?
Cap & Crunch
The Cubs offered over 200 mill
I think we can say Bryant made a poor choice at this time
YourDreamGM
Bryant can easily be traded with eating only a small amount of money if any. Just the haul won’t be good.
Moneyballer
You’re undervaluing Kris Bryant. He’s still a plus plus defender and gives quality at-bats at the top of a good lineup. Teams will want to pay for his services.
Whiskey and leather balls
I thought the tribe ran Rachel Phelps out of town?
YourDreamGM
They did, but dolan oops I mean dorn didn’t have enough funds so he brought her back.
IjustloveBaseball
I think this is a great deal for both clubs.
For the Mets — they’re in win-now mode, and Lindor effectively upgrades their line-up and defense at SS. Carrasco, while entering his age-34 season, is still a high-upside arm, and even if he starts to decline, he should be able to provide middle of the rotation type value.
As for Cleveland, they may be able to stave off a full scale rebuild with the timing of this deal. Lindor probably should’ve been dealt earlier, but the return is still solid. The Indians essentially get two players who can immediately replace Lindor, at least on paper, and two more pieces who fit more into a future timeline. Their pitching staff should be able to withstand the loss of Cookie, especially given McKenzie’s arrival in 2020.
User 589131137
Mets fleeced Cleveland.
Brixton
Not if CLE cant afford the guys they traded
JoeBrady
Cleveland wins in the long-term, with very little doubt in my mind. While anything can happen, I see very little chance of one year of Lindor having more value than five year’s of Gimenez, let alone adding back what Rosario supplies.
ludafish
Very impressed. Seems CLE got nothing in return for two great parts. Anyone who thinks Lindor is one and done with the Mets is insane. Cohen has already given the highest number he will go to. Will it be enough? Who knows. Cookie is a fine pitcher and doesn’t need to be an ace here (DeGrom is THE ace until he shows he is not) and can be the 3 or 4th starter for them. Lindor won’t be alone in the lineup as there are some good hitters.
I really wonder what Lindor is asking for. Is it a 10 year deal? Should be interesting. Good job there Mets though. Everyone in the Marlins community I’m in said we should get him. Yeah we could have easily…..but keep him after that? Hmmmmm…
Now the Mets can easily give him what he wants to stay. The NLEast can be pretty crazy next season.
Silent Bob23
Gimenez is legit and as a Mets fan I am bummed we gave him up.
jaysjunkie
How can you be bummed about this trade at all? You get a top 5 ss in the game and a real solid proven SP for two below average prospects a bum and a rookie who showed very little in 2020
ludafish
Exactly Jays. The Mets gave nothing. Those “prospects” were no where near blue chip. Maybe B+ at best. Mets fans should be elated they gave up nothing for a top tier player and an SP who could be their second starter and at worst is one of the best fourth starters in the game.
67redsox
Great move by Cleveland. Not only do they unload a $22M contract in Lindor who they had no chance in signing after this coming lost season they pulled a fast one on the Mets by saving $27M on Carrasco. A big Win for the Indians. A bit early to say how the Mets fare in all of this. It looks like they will have Lindor long-term. They cannot afford to lose face by not signing him long-term but it’ll end up being a financial disaster because Lindor has them between a rock and a hard place and therefore will dictate the terms and they already have too many bad contracts…at least they have relief from Cano’s contract.
jayu
As a Mets fan, it’s a great trade for the Mets. Especially since Carrasco seems to basically be a throw in.
For any upset Cleveland fans though, Gimenez is gonna be a great player to watch. World class defender and a guy who was just born to play baseball. Very high baseball IQ.
jaysjunkie
Wow……..… TERRIBLE deal Cleveland wake up. Should be ashamed and embarrassed.
jaysjunkie
Mets World Series contenders
Moneyballer
The only terrible deal the Indians could have made was no deal at all because they would have already locked him up if he was to be an indian moving forward. They got what they could.
yankfann
Big deal! The Yankees got Greg Allen and Socrates Brito.
whyhayzee
This likely solidifies the Mets for next year. It will be interesting to see whether Lindor signs an extension and what amounts / years are involved. The extension will definitely impact the free agent market. This could be an astute move by the Mets beyond the upgrade to the team. Will be fun to watch them next year.
Moneyballer
Or it’s could be a collossal misstep.
Brew’88
Competition for NL starting SS in 2021 Allstar Game should be fun
ludafish
On paper , no it won’t be. It’s Lindor. Swanson is a good player but compared to what Lindor can do? Turner is a good player as well but won’t do what he did in 20 a whole season.Phillies are talking about trading anyone. And I’m a Marlins fan but I won’t even try to act like they belong in this conversation. Especially since it’s a fan vote and the Mets are super large market. If he’s healthy it’s a done deal Lindor starts 2021 ASG (if there is one)
Brew’88
Swanson? Ever hear of Tatis Jr, or Seager, or Story, or Baez?
YourDreamGM
He is talking about the nl east all star game and not the mlb one.
YourDreamGM
LA has a decent size market and a ok ss.
Superstar Car Wash
GREAT trade by the Mets! Lindor is made for New York and could be the next face of baseball. He hired a talent agent and marketing agency last offseason, and his English is 20x better than when he debuted in MLB. Back then it was “game good” and “thank you” but now he is ready to be a star.
In a game where its biggest star (Trout) refuses to help promote the game with his “aw shucks, gee whiz” Jim Thome-like attitude, baseball needs Lindor to shine, and he will.
As for the rest of the players in the deal, if you’re going to share your opinions and “analysis”, please cite which algorithms or sabermetrics you are going by, or which ones you feel New York/Cleveland was using in their analysis. No old-fashioned statistics. Thank you!
its_happening
Mmhmm. Hiring a marketing agency – that’ll do the trick!
Want an enhanced game promotion from Trout? Tell the Angels to help him reach October baseball.
Please cite your algorithms used to come up with this hypothesis on Trout refusing to promote the game and why Lindor is ready to be a star when he is already a star regardless of a language barrier. Many players without speaking a word of english have been marketable and have gained huge attention in recent memory.
JoeBrady
if you’re going to share your opinions and “analysis”, please cite which algorithms or sabermetrics you are going by,
——————————————————-
You thought it was a great trade for the Mets, but you didn’t share any algorithms or sabermetrics to explain how you came to your opinion. Does that not seem a little inconsistent?
I’ll give you mine, to start. Gimenez had a 1.1 bWAR in 132 PAs, That extrapolates to a 5.42/650 PAs. Of course, that’s a small sample size, but the fact that he was highly ranked prospect makes it plausible that he will continue to be a highly-ranked player. If we assume that Lindor is a 5 WAR player, what are the chances that Lindor has a higher WAR for his one year with the NYMs than Gimenez does over the next 5 years with the Indians?
I look forward to your sabremetric response.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
Face of baseball? What? I love watching Lindor and his highlights but I wouldn’t give him that title
Superstar Car Wash
He will be in New York. He wants to be the Puerto Rican version of A-Rod with the money and endorsements, and New York is the only place he will be able to do that. He deserves it too, so great move by Cohen so Lindor can move to the next level.
Joe Momma
Kind of shocked this is all it took to get both Lindor and Carrasco. I’m sure every fan base is asking their GM why they didn’t throw their hat in the ring.
Moneyballer
Way better than the nothing they would have received if they kept him. Mets better start working on that contract extention RIGHT NOW otherwise they just pissed away 2 – 2nd round picks and some young Major League talent for a single season of Lindor’s services.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
I’m not asking that
damascusj
Very nice! Mets fans really needed this
Moneyballer
Very stupid move. Amatuer hour!
jbc1972
Very light return even if the deal was just for Lindor. But Carrasco too? Indians got robbed
Joe Momma
I have to assume that nobody was offering anything more. But I just don’t know how nobody offered more. It’s been known they were shopping him for a long time so it’s not like this was an under the radar deal.
If this was all they could get I would have taken my chances and waited to the trade deadline to move Lindor.
Deleted Userrr
They’re not going to get more for him at the deadline when the acquiring team only gets 2 months of him as opposed to a full season and can’t QO him.
JoeBrady
That’s the going rate for a one-year player. The RS got more for Betts, but Betts was also a better player.
And while I loved the RS trade, and like Verdugo a lot, his value is fairly similar to Gimenez. I think, for the most part, that the folks criticizing the Indians don’t know anything about Gimenez.
It’s a small sample, but if I were to extrapolate to 600 ABs, Gimenez’ line is:
112 runs, 15 HRs, 61 RBIs, and a 41/5 SB/CS, with GG caliber fielding
Hard to walk with four balls
From the New Yorkers too… again.
Moneyballer
You’re wrong. This is a one year rental. This price was so high, it’s not even funny!
frankiegxiii
Would’ve loved for the Dodgers to get him, but Mets fans definitely deserve some good fortune. Congrats
Deleted_User
Dodgers already have Corey Seager
frankiegxiii
True, I don’t know why they’re looking for a right handed batter either, don’t they know Taylor bats right handed?
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
Pretending to replace Turner with Taylor is a significant downgrade on both ends. It’s also means bumping up way to many LH up the lineup. The the added realization that Pollock hasn’t shown to be healthy and has been up and down. So yes the definitely need a rh bat.
Moneyballer
Extraodinarily High Price to pay for a 1 year rental! This is why the mets are always struggling to get ahead. They make mistakes like this. Lindor is not going to be a difference making upgrade in that division and then he’ll be gone. It’s like stealing for the Indians.
whynot 2
You conveniently forget to note Carrasco is also part of the deal. His inclusion makes the transaction look at lot different.
Moneyballer
You like CC much much more than I do. I hate to say this but his blood disease has had its affect on his stuff. I don’t think his best years are ahead of him.
Avory
Carlos’s stuff is still very good though, and can approach elite when he’s right. The problem is that his command has suffered in recent years. It’s not just the same pinpoint control that really allowed his excellent slider and change to play up. I love the guy…had not the rains came in game 2 in this year’s first round, I think he would have mowed down the Yankees. He was on top of his game. But the rain delay zapped his adrenaline and he had a hard time getting back his sharpness. That’s been his story.
Cap & Crunch
Well the did get the 2nd best Sp avail on the market as well for 3 years under market value if we are {trying} to be fair
Devilrayfan8
Cleveland will use this to reload. The two prospects are interesting especially if the outfielder Greene plays up to his potential. Cleveland also received their double play combo for the next few years and dumped salary.
Cap & Crunch
Im not trying to pick on your post but How can you consider that dumping salary?
Both guys were in the green …this notion that somehow money avail carries all this weight is a tad baffling to me …
You want open money to be able to be lucky at an opportunity to sign a Cookie at 3/38 if that ever drops in your lap
Unless your a shareholder in Cle I dont see how you view it as dumped salary
1984wasntamanual
Because they won’t be paying these two next year? It’s really a pretty easy concept to understand. I don’t see where he said anything about dumping bad contracts or anything like that, just that they dumped salary commitments.
Cap & Crunch
You “Dump” bad contracts, these were good contracts
I mean does looking at Spotrac and seeing those silky smooth ledgers turn fans on that much these days?
A bird in hand……..Always….Somewhere we lost that concept
Deleted Userrr
Agree with Cap. Only guys with underwater contracts can be salary dumps. Lindor and Carrasco both had good contracts.
Avory
Let me see…$22m for a guy who hit .258 with a 102 OPS+ and who hit .190 over the last 200 games w/RISP.
Yeah, that’s a gooooooood contract. It will be REALLY good when he cons the Mets into paying him $30m per year for seven years after his peak (which came in 2018, by the way).
cdav45
Way to cherrypick a partial season genius. Let me see. $20M for an all-star, silver slugging, gold glove SS that hit 284/335/518/854 with 32 HR, 40 2B, and stole 22 bases in his last full season. He’s 26 yrs old, healthy, and you likely have not seen the best of him yet. Good lord that was a stupid post!
Avory
Lessee….190 w/RISP over the last TWO seasons! Well over 200 games!
You want to make excuses for Lindor’s abject failure over the last two years to live up to the hype, fine, we’ve had presidents bamboozle people, so can shortstops.
Facts are facts, you’d be hard-pressed to compile a highlight reel of Lindor’s big offensive moments over the last two years, at a time the team desperately needed him to be the guy he’s reputed to be. He simply hasn’t been.
But go ahead, worship away. You’re his agent’s best advertisement for his client. I pity the team that pays him what he thinks he’s worth.
Deleted Userrr
TIL that the 2020 season is the only season that Lindor ever played in
Dan Hunter
Bryant is going to the Mets very soon.
busmannyc
And in other news the Wilpons just purchased a 400 unit tower in Miami for $154 million
sufferforsnakes
I’ll miss Cookie, but I’m glad that Lindor is finally gone. Got tired of his act.
GodHatesCleveland
His act? You mean top 3 at his position since entering the league, get outta here. Indians are a team that will never get past the first round of the playoffs and then blame fans for not showing up. Dolan’s need to go!
bobsugar84
If the season opened today with no NL DH, I’d bat Lindor in the three hole after obp machines Nimmo and McNeil. Followed by Conforto, Alonso, Smith, Davis, McCann. What you guys think? That’s a great lineup if everyone stays healthy. (Which rarely happens)
Cap & Crunch
You really cant go wrong-
I kinda like the idea of
Mcneil
Lindor
Conforto
Alonso
Dom
Mcann
Davis/Platoon
P
Nimmo
Gives you extra obp w Nimmo at 9 and takes some pressure off him in the beginning- You put him up top all the sudden he might feel the burden- McNeil/Lindor professional as they come
foreverseahawk
can you imagine if they had kelenic waiting in the wings for center field right now.
rich 2
LONG time Mets fan (1975). Im really happy to get Lindor but hate losing Gimenez……I think this kid is going to be a really good player for a long time. I was out all day today and am literally JUST seeing this trade. I know that we gave up Rosario and got Carrasco but those two guys are secondary. Regardless, Cohen is now officially serious as an owner.
Motown is My Town
Sad day if you’re an Indians fan.
hockeyjohn
Goodbye Baseball. Goodbye Cleveland baseball team. After 55 years, I am done. Trading Lindor was fine. Trading Carrasco is the last straw. One good thing is now I won’t care when the MLB and MLBPA continue to fight. My baseball fandom died today.
Cap & Crunch
Sorry bout that Hockeyjohn –
You were always one of the more reliable Cle posters
Its just an awful feeling bc your front office is so good, and scouting, player development have been nails then it all gets flushed due to money –
Its not fair and will eventually ruin baseball slowly – Hope your back after blowing off some well deserved steam
YourDreamGM
Want a cookie?
JoeBrady
Not for nothing, but over the past 8 years, Cleveland has been more successful than a whole lot of teams. And will continue to be so. Cleveland had the best rotation in the AL last year, and moving from Carrasco to Quantrill is unlikely to change that.
Your problem is identical to TB. You’ve been extremely successful, but that success relies on moving pitchers when their trade value & salary reach their peaks.
Basically, you have a choice between being a bad team with popular players, or a good team and rotating players every five years.
BTW, are you missing Clevinger & Kluber?
iron
Moving pitchers is one of my favorite Rush albums 😉
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
Are you really that sour? I mean come on. Change your team or be faithful to them, but to turn on baseball as a whole? Wow.
hockeyjohn
I have been losing interest in baseball in general because I am sick and tired of the constant fighting in the media between MLB and the MLBPA. I expect a long work stoppage in 2022 when the current CPA expires. Neither side gives a damn about the fans.
I am also very disgusted with how MLB is treating minor league teams and their fan base. I have attended many minor league games in the past years, each being a fun experience. I have watched games in South Bend, Toledo, Columbus, Akron, Lake County, and the Indians former short season team in Niles, Ohio.
Then 55 years of watching the Cleveland Indians being a minor league feeder to the big market teams is also very frustrating. It has been easier of late because Chris Antonetti and company have done a great job, As I stated before, I get and support trading Francisco Lindor because there is no way that a small market team can field a competitive team while carrying a huge contract. All we have to do is look downstate to see how competitive the Cincinnati Reds have been with Joey Votto’s contract. After one year of spending and competing, the Reds are cutting salariy as well.
Trading Carlos Carrasco was different. He was loyal to Cleveland because they stuck with him after his early career and health struggles. He signed two team friendly deals and wanted to stay. He was a leader in the locker room and to their younger pitchers on the staff. He was the best representative of the Cleveland Indians that they had. Why would any future player commit to any extension or long term contract with the Indians? I wouldn’t. The Indians can make their moves based on their bottom line. Their fans can also do that. This fan does not plan to drive the five hour round trip back to Cleveland to spend money.
MLB Baseball is broken. The larger markets have all of the advantages over the smaller market teams that don’t happen in the other major sports. With a salary cap and revenue sharing all teams in the other three major sports, teams have no reason not to be competitive. The Cleveland Browns have been miserable because they were so poorly operated since their return in 1999. They finally appear to have a solid GM and head coach and they are back competitive. Market size means nothing in the NFL, NHL, and NBA. It does matter greatly in MLB and that is the problem. Chris Antonetti and the Indians could not overcome a major contract or trade mistake like the larger markets can. A Jacoby Ellsbury mistake would kill any small market team. Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Oakland have all remained competitive, despite market size, because they have been very well operated. I fear the Dodgers will be the dominant team of the next decade because of their front office and dominant money advantages. Large market teams have so many more financial sources than the smaller markets have. Local TV is one area. The Dodger local TV contract brings in 5 times the amount of money that Cleveland’s does despite their great ratings. Even when the Indians TV contract is up for renegotiation, there is no chance to come close to matching it because to the market size. I have no problem adding a salary floor to protect the players, but a salary cap is need or baseball will remain broken.
When Art Modell and the NFL screwed Cleveland back in 1995, I only had interest in watching teams where my fantasy football players played. Instead of rooting for another team, I just rooted against the Baltimore Ravens which I still do and always will. As far as this baseball season goes, I will follow my fantasy baseball team’s players, that is if I decide to do it again.
I am a very loyal person. The Indians trade of Carlos Carrasco, the most loyal Indian of my Indian baseball fandom, 55 years, shows to me that that feeling is not mutual to them. Picking another team is not an option. I will support my Browns and my Bowling Green Falcons and leave it at that.
I hope that explains where I am coming from.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I understand. I was a Bulls fan for about 28 years. Started around the time they won their first title with Jordan. Stuck with them through the good times, then some hard ones, then the couple of Derrick Rose-led seasons where they lost to Miami, then a bunch of bad management decisions, but eventually, the FO’s complete lack of a plan got to me, as did a couple other things with the sport. I’ve pretty much walked away from basketball and only casually check up on it every 3-4 months.
As for Cleveland, though, I wouldn’t give up on them. Honestly, if you combined their and the White Sox’ approach, you’d have an exceptionally run team. Cleveland is smart to trade away guys rather than letting them walk and the White Sox do a great job of extending young talent early. If Cleveland did that, they could either get more value in trade because of more cost-controlled years or use these guys for longer. I’m actually hoping when Eloy, Robert, et al get within a year or two of FA that the Sox trade most of them to restock the farm and keep it going like Cleveland has for years. It’s the best way for a limited-budget team to remain competitive year-in, year-out.
LordD99
Good deal for the Mets based on the need to improve, enhance their chances as legit contenders, and to make a splash for their fans and to show the market this is clearly the new Mets. I’m not sure if Lindor became available several years on after Cohen owned the team they’d do this deal, but it was the right deal for them heading into 2021.
Some may feel the return is light, and it is on one level because they included Carrasco, but I think the Indians did well in a market where I don’t know if any other team was really negotiating for Lindor beyond the Mets. Probably the Blue Jays, who have a similar desire to improve and have money to spare this year. and who also want to make a splash. Beyond that, I’m sure many teams checked in gauging the Lindor market, but probably almost all were sitting back on their heels in case Cleveland was forced to dump him. That may be why Carrasco was included. The Mets may have asked for his inclusion as there is no guarantee they’ll sign Lindor (although they will) and one guaranteed year of Lindor at $20 million would have limited the return. Basically, the Mets got one year of Lindor, plus advance negotiating rights; and three years of Carrasco. A nice win for the Mets.
As for the Indians, under the circumstances, I believe they did well. Getting two everyday players who are SS’s, one with three years of control and the other with five years, is a win for them. I expect both to improve. Wolf fits perfectly in the Indians pitching development machine, which is better than any team in the majors. No opinion on Greene. They get two, talented everyday players to help immediately, and two prospects who they don’t have to put on their 40-may roster. Help today, help tomorrow. A win for the Indians too under the circumstances.
PitcherMeRolling
LFGM
SoCalBrave
The question no one is asking is, would the Mets make this trade if they had signed JT instead of McCann?
I think not.
YourDreamGM
Absolutely they would. Plenty of tax room.
Roll
Absolutely would have, Even if they gave JTR the 20M or maybe a little more they are still about 20M under the cap right now.
The question however is will they put that 32 mil into play as i think they still could use a little shoring up atleast def wise in center and backup catcher / catcher depth. Another bullpen piece would do a lot for them too.
stormie
The problem for the Mets is that they have Cano’s $24 million back on the books in 2022 and 2023, not to mention the probable $10 million+ raise for Lindor (assuming an extension) so they probably want to stay under the cap this year or they’re likely looking at three years in a row above it, even if they let some of their pending FAs walk after 2021.
RobM
I think so. We shouldn’t assume the first tax threshold is the limit. The Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, even the Tigers, and a few others, have gone through the threshold before retreating. Cohen could view it as a strategic move his first year to spend big on the MLB team, making them a competitive threat, then focus on the minors. Basically, do what the Dodgers did.
I suspect moving forward, the Mets will live up around, and at times above, the first threshold depending on their needs, as the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers do too.
Deleted Userrr
Sure they would. Why woudn’t they? The two are in no way related.
phillyballers
Pretty sure that Bryce is regretting his decision to go to Philly 100% now. No WS, and this?
YourDreamGM
He shouldn’t. Philly paid him the most money and tried hard to contend so far.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
What he should regret is turning down a higher AAV from the Nats.
baumrind973
Now, Steve, we need to lockup Lindor and Carrasco long-term
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
You want to lock up a 33 year old pitcher long term?
RobM
They already have Carrasco for up to the next three years at below-market value.
Vince Camp
Sssoooooooooooooo. The great smiling mercenary finally got his wish. I must admit it is sad sad day to be a Cleveland fan. There is no light at the end of this tunnel. As long as you have this ownership this nightmare is going to be repeated for decades to come. What’s the use of following this team. We’re going back to be being doormats of the American League. When is this useless commissioner going to force some of these organization to spend at least enough to stay competitive. This is a total travesty. Some day when I look back at some of the worst things I did in my life,I’ll say it was wasting 60 years of my life following the Cleveland Indians.
JoeBrady
As long as you have this ownership this nightmare is going to be repeated for decades to come.
—————————————————–
And this has nothing to do with the fact that no one in Cleveland goes to the games? The money to pay for players doesn’t just magically appear. In the magical year of 2016, Cleveland took the Cubs to the 7th game of the WS. And the reward for that? Cleveland finished 29th in attendance.
YourDreamGM
They weren’t 29th. Maybe low 20s. Nobody is 29th with the florida teams.
JoeBrady
That’s the sad part. They couldn’t even outdraw Miami. I could throw a kegger and outdraw Miami.
GodHatesCleveland
Game 7 of the World Series is nice, but it is not a Championship. When the young players the Indians acquired become All-Star caliber (if that even happens), the Dolan’s will trade them just like they did with Lindor today.
JoeBrady
Not everyone wins the WS. You should enjoy getting to it. These things are often coin flips.
And yes, Dolan will trade them when they become expensive stars. But until then, you will have to tolerate being in the playoffs every year and winning 90+ every year.
Lofton4daHOF
Also a lifelong Tribe fan, so I’ll give you some optimism. You won’t have to spend the rest of your life rooting for the Indians. You’ll get to root for the Spiders or Buckeyes or Captains….(you get the idea)
DadsInDaniaBeach
So, as the stomach turns, gotta love this for the Mets..To me, this is similar to the J T Realmuto trade the Phillies did with the Guppies…They’ll try to extend Lindor..good luck with that..however, it really won’t matter if they win the NL East and go further..
As I see it, the NL East just got stronger.
1- Braves or Mets
2- Mets or Braves
3- Washington
4- Marlins (good young team)
5- Sadly, the Phillies..
I don’t think the Phils are a bad team, just that the others are so much better…
I am hoping the Phitens are able to re-sign JT and fix that pen..
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Phillies are a .500 team.
I’d be rich for every time I picked the Mets and they failed me.
MarlinsFanBase
The Marlins are the Wild Card unknown in the NL East deck of cards. Many are tempted to pick them for last place, but at the same time, nobody knows what can happen with so many young players already there or on the way this year. They bring out the following questions among many:
Was 2020, although short, a sign of them arriving from the rebuild?
If they are ready to contend in a full 162, how does that impact the other teams in the division in 2021?
As for the rest of the division, the Mets made a good move. The Braves are the class of the division. The Nats seem like they’ll be okay and bounce back. The Phillies are under a great deal of pressure right now to build up because they are also a team that is tempting to pick for last place.
jett
This move makes the NL East much more fun for 2021. Lindor makes the Mets better but I don’t think that it turns them into title contenders. The Braves are unrivaled as the class of the East. Every other team has a lot of question marks. None of them is as bad as some teams in the NL Central will be. I still have zero belief in the Marlins. I believe the truncated season helped them immensely. Being a younger, fresher team than most helped, they also receive some of the best production from the DH position. Maybe I’m not giving them the credit they deserve? But I would be more surprised than not, if they don’t finish in last place in 2021.
Depending on the remainder of the offseason moves, injuries, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised with any of the other teams finishing in any order. I think the teams that may help determine the NL East are the bottoms feeders in the Central & West. I mean this mainly in the terms of do one of these teams make a deal with the Nats or Phils to help them push the Mets & Braves? Especially with two FO guys like Rizzo & Dombrowski who are both always in win-now mode.
Does Mike Rizzo try to make a deal for Kris Bryant? Does Mike Dombrowski trade prospects & controllable guys for a package of Trevor Story & Marquez/Gray? There’s lots of opportunity out there. Just a matter of who takes the leap.
its_happening
Mike Dombrowski probably won’t make a deal of any kind.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
For one year of Lindor, I think Mets will regret trading Amed Rosario. He’s bound to breakout at some point. Carrasco is a nice gain though, if he stays consistent., Knowing the Mets, I doubt this pans out. They make big deals that seem to not work out unfortunately.
Ma4170
Don’t say it, I’ve been fearing that… I have images of Baerga in my mind, who they also got in his “prime” at 27… some memories are hard to shake
MarlinsFanBase
I have to say that the Mets made a good move in this more so with Carrasco because they needed pitching more than hitting. Of course the hitting and Lindor’s defense helps too, but they already have hitters and need a lot more defense. Lindor needs to fit in their offense in a way that the offense starts to mesh. The defense is better by one position, but still 4 others to go (CF, LF, 3B, 2B) with 2 of them important hitters (Smith and McNeil), so maybe the DH helps them out to move on there while picking up another.
As for Carrasco, now the Mets have another legit SP after deGrom., that isn’t hype or excuses. He’s the big get.
As for Cleveland, the fact that the Mets didn’t have to give up as much as one would expect, kind of shows that there may not have been much of a market for Lindor as a high-priced rental and with so many other SS’s that are available after this year.
Ma4170
Isn’t McNeil pretty much an average 2b (not deficient)? Not counting last year bc it was only 12 games at 2b , he had 54 games in 2018 he was +10 DRS… and even in 2019 in just 37 games it was -5… and he was a +2 OAA there in 2018 and 2019.. seems he’s prob just mediocre at 2b and not horrible… the other positions I’m w you.. nimmo awful CF, davis terrible 3b; Smith LF
MarlinsFanBase
I’m a fan of an NL East team, so I’ve seen what hasn’t appeared in stats yet in his smaller samples. He has some flaws in his defense that can play worse with more games at 2B. Can he maintain being average? Yes. Can Lindor help hide his flaws? Yes. But I can’t ignore what most of us in the NL East have seen at the times when the Mets have played him there.
To me, since Davis is nothing special offensively and a bad glove, I’d deal him, then move McNeil to 3B where I think he’s less of a liability. I’d acquire a solid defensive 2B. Just my opinion though.
MarlinsFanBase
To me, even if you see McNeil as mediocre and not a liability, you can’t have that combined with so many other flawed defensive players that rate from mediocre to poor with their gloves. You particularly can’t have that in the NL East with most of the teams from top to bottom, being built in ways that can take advantage of that – including my Marlins who play small ball; the Nats who you can’t give second chances to in innings; and the Braves who can steamroll a team when that team makes mistakes. Even the Phillies, flaws and all, can’t be given second chances with errors too often because of Harper in that lineup and the likes of Hoskins (and Realmuto if he re-signs).
Regi Green
Well,as a Phillie fan,that’s not good.
cdav45
Well RG, fear not. As an Indian fan we have something for you too. You can have Ramirez, Civale, Rosario, and Hedges for Bohm, Howard, and Marchan. What say you?
Regi Green
I say no way,and that there’s really no way the Phillies trade any cost controlled players.
And they shouldn’t,because after all of these years rebuilding,we just might be looking at a last place finish.
Regi Green
And I know you were being sarcastic,but Bohm and Howard are definitely pieces they see as long term pieces.
I’d swap Marchan for Hedges though.Im personally not as high on him as a lot of people seem to be.Actually think the Phillies should be targeting catcher in next years draft,whether Jts back or not.
JoeBrady
I thought he was being sarcastic as well, but it’s not ridiculous. He just needs to improve from Civale.
titanic struggle
what I find astounding, is that The Cleveland Baseball Club has no one under contract beyond the 2021 season.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Only Jose Ramirez has a team option for ’22 and ’23 which they should wisely pick up. Not sure if those options get voided if he gets traded but he would bring Cleveland another very decent haul if they remain intact. It’s the epitome of a full teardown.
mookie1
This fills two more needs. However, I would like to see the Mets go all in. They are about 30 million under the luxury threshold. Would Springer, Hand and another dependable starter cost much more? Maybe 45 million? CF defense, LF defense and bench would all improve with Springer. Another starter keeps Lugo in the bullpen, and adding Hand gives plenty of protection against relief pitcher volatility. Just do it!
jwt421
0This is very good trade for Mets. Rosario enters his 5th year as a below league average SS. Outside of a 2019 2nd half where he seemed to finally put it all together, he’s been a disappointment at the plate, still hasn’t learned how to steal a base, and walks about once a month.
Gimenez, who had already supplanted Rosario as the starting SS in 2020, has some upside. He is a fantastic defender and has great baseball instincts. Keep in mind his major league career only consists of 118 ABs so it remains to be seen what what his offensive potential really is; however, he will never match Lindor’s output.
Have to assume the Mets will try to lock up Lindor long-term. Even if they don’t, Guillorme can hold down the position for a year until Ronny Mauricio makes his debut. If they sign Lindor long-term, then Mauricio becomes the prospect headliner for a subsequent trade.
Carrasco is a quality starter that bolsters their starting rotation with two years of control and a team option for a third. The man has had one off year in the last five and that was when he was battling leukemia in 2019.
Yes they still have some holes, but the Mets are a far better team today than they were before Cohen took over ownership. And it demonstrates what Sandy is capable of doing as a GM with an owner who provides him resources.
Avory
Never? Gimenez and Lindor had exactly the same OPS+ last year: 102.
What was Lindor’s excuse for such a crappy year? He was supposed to be in his prime and in free agency mode, batting 3rd for a contender that desperately needed him to produce.
Gimenez’s excuse? He was 21.
jwt421
Gimenez had a higher OPS+ than Yelich last year; doesn’t make him the better player.
I guess we will agree to disagree. I enjoyed watching Gimenez play last year, but I’d still rather off have Lindor as my starting SS going in to 2021.
lolzmets
Lindor bats .250, McCann reminds everyone why he is a backup catcher. Mets finish in 4th place. Lindor dips after this season. Dumb trade for a team that isn’t close to contending with a roster full of parts that don’t fit. Yes World Series contenders- that is laughable.
Regi Green
I laughed at the idea of them being ws contenders a couple weeks ago,but this trade definitely changes things.Lindor is that good,and Carrasco on top of that,gives them a staff that could compete with anyone.
And if they add either Springer or Hand,they could be very dangerous.
Chief Two Hands
@Regl Green…Your punctuation is painful.
Regi Green
You’re welcome
ukpadre
I agree it was a dumb trade, but only because Lindor wasn’t needed for them to win a WS. I know this, because Metsfan22 has already anointed them WS winners for the next 5 years. So now everyone else can go home, no need to play the games!
doug c
Cleveland could learn a lot from Pittsburgh in salary dumping the pirates have it down to an art form
Robrock30
Cleveland Indians ( whatever they call themselves now ) got hosed.
Gimenez is the real deal high IQ solid SS with contact bat and speed will blossom.
Rosario has some tools but has no range, no pitch recognition at bat never walks and swings at garbage, has speed but can’t steal bases. He is really low IQ who wasn’t developed properly. He needs to fix almost his entire game to be useful.
JoeBrady
This is a material weakness for some teams. If a player’s prime is maybe 23-28, then that is the age you should promote them at. Some develop a little quicker or a little later, which is fine, but no one should promote a 21 year old unless they are 100% ready.
Rosario had a 3:1 K/W in AAA at age 21. There is no reason they couldn’t have waited another year to promote him.
Gimenez was even worse. he had a 4:1 K/W in AA, and had no AAA experience, and was only 20 at that point. Covid-interruptus and all, but when you promote these guys too early, all you are doing is mediocre results, for top prospects, and ensuring that they reach free agency at an early age.
rocky7
Well wait a minute…what do you mean when you say the Indians got hosed….you admitted they got a “real deal high IQ solid SS” in Gimenez along with Rosario who “has some tools” for a player who was definitely going to leave them as a free agent, and admittedly a pretty good #2-3 stating pitcher.
I can see the question centering around Carasco being included, but given what the Indians got back, given the circumstances of getting nothing for Lindor when he walks, this hardly classifies as “getting hosed”!
msqboxer
I see this as a win win….The Mets big market needs star power and the fans deserve it. I hope that the Mets are willing to pony up the $$ to Lindor if he produces and that Lindor likes NY and the potential star power. Cleveland in the long run may have an equal or better part of the deal if you consider money..
JoeBrady
I appreciate the response. Too many posters are framing this as a win/lose issue. I like the Cleveland side of the deal, since I am a big fan of Gimenez, but the Mets still got what they wanted.
It’s difficult to compare results of a small market v big market trade. Same as with the Cubs, and Rays, I think both sides got what they wanted & needed.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Great deal for the Mets. They won’t miss Rosario and they landed Carrasco, who, aside from a rough 2019, has been solid. I don’t think this boosts them to the Braves’ level, but I think they just jumped into 2nd place in the division, with the playoffs now looking likely. I think they need one more major piece to really solidify themselves as contenders, but this trade is a big step in the right direction.
As a White Sox fan, I’m also happy about what it does to the Indians (perhaps Spiders soon?). It’s not like they got no value, but they’re certainly weaker in the short-term and by the time these guys develop, it probably won’t matter anyway because the White Sox prospects will be up and (hopefully) producing.
debubba
If they are using the “money all” model they can easily replace the WAR or OPS or OPS+ (whatever you use to determine a players worth) by going out and signing two average players to play the outfield. Subtraction to free more money for several additions. The question is though, will they truly do this…
rocky7
As a Yankees fan, I can do nothing but applaud the Mets for this trade….wishing the Yankees would get on with the DJL stuff and look at fortifying the team weaknesses in 2021 and beyond.
You can say what you want about the Mets previously, but they have made a major bold move to establish a new identity not only in the NL East, but in MLB period. Bravo Mets!
didi gregorious nose
as a mets fan and not a yankee hater, i would say Cashman got this he knows what hes doing.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
The longer the DJLM situation drags on, the less I like the Yankees’ odds. He’s a good fit on the Blue Jays, and if they’re interested in seemingly everyone, one would have to think they’d sign at least somebody. It’d be a waste of an offseason for an up-and-coming team if they didn’t.
warnbeeb
As a Tiger fan (and a Mets fan) I am ecstatic to see Lindor and Carrasco out of the AL Central….and into the NL East.
Mercy, what were the Indians thinking?
Avory
Um…they were thinking that Lindor has been mediocre the last two years and they still won, so why not exchange him for a guy five years his junior who put up an OPS+ equal to Francisco at a price that is $17m less? And $20-25m less per year going forward?
But that’s just it…the Indians are forced to THINK…the big markets just emote and waste resources because they can afford to be stupid. So what’s the Tigers’ excuse?
sufferforsnakes
(drops mic and walks away)
cdav45
Mediocre the last 2 seasons? I’ll give you the 60 game 2020 season where offense was diminished across the league, but beyond that you’re dead wrong.
The Indians weren’t forced to “think”. They were bent over the barrel and had absolutely no leverage…….none. They had to reduce payroll. There was no way to extend Lindor. There was no way to keep Lindor and watch him walk for a draft pick. They took what they were given and that’s the bottom line.
Anyone that thinks they’ll get the production out of Gimenez that Lindor provided is mentally handicapped. If you want to talk about how baseball players make too much money and the system needs an overhaul we could certainly find some common ground, but trying to sell Gimenez as Lindor’s equal is absurd.
User 589131137
What’s especially frustrating is that Lindor should’ve been traded the minute the team realized it was not going to resign him (which was obviously pretty early). A smart organization would have cut losses immediately for a higher return.
warnbeeb
I understand the Lindor part, but adding Carrasco too? For what they got in return? Mets fleeced ’em. Lindor is Mookie Betts light….it’s FA year. Expecting big things from him in Citi.
Indianfan
What were the Indians thinking? Shedding big (for them) contracts. That’s what’s behind nearly every trade or release (Brad Hand) the Indians do. Get rid of the expensive players. Unfortunately, they’re also the good players. How would you like to be a fan of such a cheapskate team? It’s not fun, but that’s what you get when your owner had enough money to buy the team (maybe) but not enough money to operate it as a MLB franchise. Next up: The rest of the starting rotation.
debubba
I bet Ramirez is a candidate for a trade next off season. He has a team friendly contract, multiple years of control and should bring back a decent haul of youngsters to fill is then”misses” they may have acquired.
driftcat28 2
Cleveland with a weak package. Should’ve gotten McNeil back in this trade
NBE
Excellent deal for the Mets. Indians should have gotten either JD Davis or Nimmo.
debubba
Davis has no true defensive position without liability and the best fit is at DH. Indians lately have been very diligent on players who have decent defensive metrics. Nimmo may be too close to FA have two years remaining and is arbitration eligible. Not saying this is right way to do it, but the Indians are getting you players that are ML ready with a ton of years of control.
Renotribefan
I am curious to see how Lindor handles the pressures of playing in NY. First let me say that I think last year was more of an outlier for him and that he is way more likely to fall back into his old form given a normal season rather than continuing his mediocre offensive year from last year. I also like him and hold no ill will over him not signing an extension with the Tribe and holding out for more money. Kudos to him for sticking to his guns and betting on himself.
That being said, Lindor was asked to bat 3rd last year in order to provide some much needed pop in the heart of the order. We had Cesar Hernandez batting leadoff, and he was perfect for that role. He made contact, had enough speed to steal a base, didn’t strikeout a lot. However, Lindor struggled so badly from the #3 spot that Sandy had to remake the lineup to move him back up to leadoff where he was more comfortable. It also moved Hernandez out of the leadoff spot, which I believe made our lineup worse overall. I also remember reporting where Lindor made it known to the team that he preferred the leadoff spot.
Now, I always knew the Tribe wasn’t going to re-sign him, however it got me thinking. If the Tribe was entertaining signing him, would it be smart to throw out a 10 year 300M+ contract to a guy who really wilted under the pressure when he had to be “the guy” in the middle of the order? As I said earlier, perhaps last year is an outlier, however I think it’s at least a bit of a red flag. His postseason stats have been hit or miss, but other than 2016, those have been small sample sizes anyway. I just wonder how he will handle the intense NY media. Some players (like Carlos Santana) don’t realize how good they had it until they are gone. If he starts off cold and starts pressing to perform, are we going to see a repeat of 2020?
I root for my team instead of players, so I honestly don’t care if he does well or not. The Indians don’t “win” the trade if he sucks from here on out. His defense will always be there, but the Mets fans on here shouldn’t be so over the top confident about this. Take it from those of us who have watched him every day. He would have days where he’d go 4-4 in a 9-0 win and then the next day he would go 1-4 with a pair of strikeouts with runners in scoring position in a 3-2 loss. He’s a great player. But your expectations of him might be a bit high.
jwt421
Handling New York is always an issue. Some guys can do it, some can’t. We will have to wait and see.
One of the big differences between his role in Cleveland and on the Mets is he will not be asked to carry the offense. Alonso, Conforto, and Dom Smith are the big bats in the lineup and McNeil just hits. Those are the guys who will be hitting behind him. If Lindor plays his game and doesn’t press, there is no reason not to expect a 4.0+ WAR season from him.
User 589131137
Unbelievable Cleveland couldn’t even get Dom Smith in a trade return.
raef715
Cesar Hernandez didnt steal a single base last year. Always seemed with Phillies he wasnt a very good baserunner but managed to steal 15-20 most years, down to 9 in 2019- i guess the Indians told him not to run?
debubba
Deshields and Mercado have that ability and they too didn’t do much stealing.
Cosmo2
Unless you got a guy whose gonna steal at least 30 or more at an 80% or better clip, it’s really not worth it. Base stealing is rarely a good strategy.
Spare Tire Dixon
Every team should check in on Jose Ramirez now. Cleveland is clearly willing to unload more than just Lindor, if Carrasco was added to this deal.
IKJ
Gotta love how initial reactions are on trades. Gimmy alone was worth it since none of the other guys did much of anything. Lindor got his payday, but sacrificed what it felt like to win to get it. S/O to Jose Ramirez for being a real one. We kept our superstar and traded Lindor for a guy that’s already top 5 defensively and may one day become an elite hitter.