The Mets have made their first huge deal of the Steve Cohen era, acquiring shortstop Francisco Lindor and right-hander Carlos Carrasco from the Indians as part of a six-player trade. To replace their star shortstop, Cleveland will receive two prominent young infielders in Amed Rosario and Andres Gimenez and a pair of Mets prospects — right-hander Josh Wolf and outfielder Isaiah Greene.
It has been widely assumed that Lindor would be on the move at some point this offseason, as the Tribe is looking to cut payroll and Lindor is now entering his final season before free agency. The Mets have been one of many teams mentioned as a plausible suitor, though comments made by both new owner Cohen and team president Sandy Alderson implied that the Mets would be more apt to sign big-name players rather than trade for them, due to a lack of minor league depth in New York’s farm system.
Instead, Alderson and new Mets GM Jared Porter have now swung a major blockbuster. Financial terms of the deal haven’t yet been made public, but it’s safe to assume the Mets are picking up all of the $27MM owed to Carrasco through the 2022 season. Between Carrasco’s contract and Lindor’s projected salary (between $17.5MM and $21.5MM) in his final year of arbitration, Cohen’s willingness to spend manifested itself in a different way, as the Mets will now upgrade their roster by taking some salaries off the books of the cost-cutting Cleveland organization.
Since his debut in 2015, no shortstop in baseball has a higher fWAR (28.9) than Lindor. A four-time All-Star with two Gold Gloves and two Silver Slugger Awards, Lindor has hit .285/.346/.488 with 138 home runs over his six big league seasons, and further established himself as an all-around talent by stealing 99 bases. 2020 was a down year for Lindor, as he hit only .258/.335/.415 over a league-high 266 PA, but that would certainly be explained by the unusual nature of the shortened season rather than a clear sign of a decline.
It is also fair to wonder if Lindor might have been impacted by the trade speculation that has been swirling around him for the better part of three years. After some early-career extension talks with the Tribe failed to lead to a deal, it became increasingly clear that Cleveland would look to trade Lindor rather than just let him walk in free agency. Indians owner Paul Dolan said in 2019 that his team didn’t have the resources to invest heavily in a single player, and rather notoriously told Cleveland fans to “enjoy [Lindor] and then we’ll see what happens.”
Lindor now becomes the centerpiece of an already-strong Mets lineup, as he will step in as the everyday shortstop. Luis Guillorme looks like New York’s top backstop shortstop option now that Rosario and Gimenez are gone, though Jose Peraza and Wilfredo Tovar are also on hand. The Mets could look to add another veteran utility infield type prior to Opening Day, though Jeff McNeil’s ability to play multiple positions gives them some cover in that respect.
We also shouldn’t assume that the Mets are anywhere near done with major moves, of course. The club has already signed James McCann and Trevor May in free agency, retained Marcus Stroman via the qualifying offer, and such big names as George Springer and Trevor Bauer are also known to be free agent targets for Alderson and company. Since the Mets are still roughly $32MM short of the $210 luxury tax threshold, at least one more pricey contract could certainly be added, and possibly more if the club moved some other salary in a trade, or was willing to take a one-year tax hit for exceeding the threshold.
Carrasco joins Stroman and ace Jacob deGrom in a strong 1-2-3 punch atop the New York rotation. If rookie David Peterson can continue his 2020 performance over a full season and Noah Syndergaard is in form during his midseason return from Tommy John surgery rehab, the Mets could very well have one of the sport’s top starting fives. On the flip side, given the uncertainty of Syndergaard’s health, how Stroman will look after opting out of the 2020 season, and the possibility of a sophomore slump for Peterson, this same rotation carries some questions that now aren’t as glaring with a solid veteran like Carrasco in the fold.
Carrasco’s salary made him a natural trade candidate, and today’s news ends his 11-season run as a beloved favorite for both Cleveland’s fans and within the Tribe’s locker room. Carrasco posted a 3.77 ERA, 25.5 K%, and 19.2 K-BB% over his 1242 1/3 innings in an Indians uniform, highlighted by a 2017 season that saw him finish fourth in AL Cy Young Award voting.
After missing almost three months of the 2019 season due to a leukemia diagnosis, Carrasco made an emotional return to the field that September, and then looked to be fully back during a 2020 season that saw him post a 2.91 ERA, 29.3 K%, and 19.6% K-BB% over 68 frames. His 9.6 BB% is a bit of a red flag, and his highest total in the category since his 2009 rookie season, though this could again be a by-product of the small 2020 sample size.
It was less than four years ago that Rosario was a consensus top-10 prospect in baseball, and between his young age (25) and the flashes he has shown over four MLB seasons, it isn’t out of the question that he can still fulfill that potential with a change of scenery. Rosario looked to be breaking out in 2019, when he hit .322/.353/.453 over his final 372 plate appearances of the season, but he managed just a .252/.272/.371 slash line in 147 PA in 2020.
As it happened, Gimenez received more playing time ahead of Rosario, and Gimenez responded with a .263/.333/.398 slash in his first 132 plate appearances as a major leaguer. A former top-100 prospect himself, Gimenez is considered a better defender than Rosario and might be Cleveland’s preferred choice at shortstop, with Rosario perhaps moving into the second base vacancy left open by free agent Cesar Hernandez. Since Rosario has been considered to have multi-position capability, the Tribe could also move Rosario around the diamond, perhaps a way of addressing their longstanding outfield problem.
It probably isn’t a surprise that both Wolf and Greene weren’t drafted by Alderson’s front office, which may have made him more open to moving these particular prospects. The two youngsters were second-round picks (Wolf in 2019, Greene in 2020) during Brodie Van Wagenen’s time as New York’s general manager, and were respectively ranked ninth and 10th in MLB Pipeline’s list of Mets minor leaguers.
Drafted as a high schooler out of Texas, Wolf pitched eight innings over five appearances for the Mets’ rookie ball team in 2019. Pipeline rates both his curveball and his fastball as 60-grade plus pitches, with his heater averaging 94mph during his brief rookie ball debut. As per the scouting report, “Wolf’s athleticism, quick arm and clean delivery enable him to pitch to both sides of the plate and all four quadrants of the strike zone, and he earns high marks for his aptitude with regards to making adjustments.”
Greene is another high school product, and he won’t celebrate his 20th birthday until August. Greene is a bit raw, but he already has what Pipeline’s scouting report described as “a contact-oriented approach” at the plate, plus speed, and potential to remain as a center fielder. Baseball America thinks left field might be his eventual destination, but still ranked Greene as the 49th-best prospect available in the 2020 draft, and noted that Greene was “drawing comparisons to Garret Anderson and Michael Brantley” as a hitter.
In the bigger picture, today’s trade emulates other major swaps made by the Indians in recent years — a higher-priced star player (whether Lindor, Carrasco, Mike Clevinger, Trevor Bauer, or Corey Kluber) is dealt for a combination of big-league ready pieces and younger talent. Cleveland president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti and GM Mike Chernoff have done an admirable job of keeping the Indians competitive amidst this constant shedding of higher-paid players, in part due to the team’s ability to consistent develop quality pitchers from its minor league system.
That said, Cleveland now has just over $40MM on its books for 2021, and no players officially under contract beyond the season. At least one of Jose Ramirez’s club options seem a safe bet to be exercised, but that’s assuming Ramirez isn’t also traded at some point in the next 12 months. The lack of both fan attendance and revenue-sharing payments unquestionably delivered a big hit to the team’s financial picture, but this even more austere approach to roster construction will surely hamper Cleveland’s chances at contending in the AL Central and making another postseason appearance.
ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links) was the first to report that the two teams were “deep in talks” about a Lindor deal, and Passan also noted Gimenez was part of the trade. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman first reported the the two sides had agreed to the trade. MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported Carrasco’s involvement in the swap. MLB Pipeline’s Jonathan Mayo reported that Rosario was being dealt, while The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported Wolf’s involvement, and ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel) had Greene’s involvement.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Gimenez+ to Tribe
“The Francisco Lindor-to-the-Mets trade is being finalized, sources tell ESPN. This is going to happen.”
Interesting as we will see what one year of a premium player is worth in trade.
It’s going to be blurred a bit now by Carrasco.
Jed should have taken a lesson in salary dumping from Cleveland.
@kyleschwarberamom Clearly you must not be keen to baseball value mets got 2 mediocre major league players and 2 prospect barely in top 10 of mets middling farm. Cubs got 4 prospects in the top 15 of padres loaded farm (ranked 2 overall prior to trade) and Davies a cheap cost controlled arm with great production last season. If anything indians got fleeced, they gave up carrasco (cheap cost controlled arm) and 1 year of lindor for aaaa positional players and none of mets best blue chip talent. Try to keep up
@Tatsumaki
Gimenez had a good season for a 22 year old. This is a fair trade for both sides. Cleveland dumped their salary and picked up a player for the next five years.
Those Padres prospects slotted in at about the same place in the Cubs prospect list as they were in the Padres system. We have no idea for four years whether these guys pan out. The overpay for the Cubs was chipping in Caratini and $3 million.
“ After some early-career extension talks with the Tribe failed to lead to a deal, it became increasingly clear that Cleveland would look to trade Lindor RATHER THAN JUST LET HIM WALK IN FREE AGENCY. “
….the Mookie Betts trade….lol
@kyle prospect rankings are volatile, those prospects could shoot up into top 100 lists in 1 year of minor league action as others players graduate. They have huge upside and are all still teenagers outside of 1 who is 20 years old. They would be in 2-7 range prospect grade for teams not as deep as padres. In addition, Cubs cut cost and sold high on darvish who had a fantastic year in a shortened season but will likely regress and this was the best package they were getting. Added bonus is Davies could be flipped at deadline for additional capital it’s not as bad a deal as you paint it to be.
You forget that Cleveland does not draft well but they do have a keen eye for pitching trades.
@tatsumaki….Carrasco nothing to brag about…
@tatsumaki
Preciado looks like the best of the bunch and could enter the top 100 soon. Also, you never know, Davies may outpitch Darvish but it’s betting against the odds. If Davies has to be flipped at the deadline, the trade looks worse for the Cubs as they will probably be out of contention in a weak NL Central. The division is just sitting there like an Amazon package on the porch.
kyleschwarbersmom… I couldn’t agree with you more. Hoyer made a desperate trade.
Not sure Yaz what your point is. Lindor is not Mookie and more to the point, Cleveland is not Boston. The questions for each club were despite what was said to the press publicly, what chance was there really to sign each, what chance did each have to win it all if you kept them and was the risk worth it? You can’t be armchair quarterbacking afterwards.
@Tatsumaki propect ranking are volatile, these prospects could drop off of teams’ top 30 lists in a year or two of minor league action if their performance doesn’t match their potential and as other players are drafted/signed internationally and other prospects start showing more promise. They have huge risk because they are all still teenagers outside of 1 who is 20 years old.
Lets be honest, the Cubs are a poorly run organization. Always have been. The owners are only interesting in using the team as an ATM and are salary dumping because they spent all their money on elections.
lowtalker: The Indians do pretty good in trades overall but especially in they bring in pitchers. Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger, & Carrasco were all acquired “assets”. Michael Brantley was also acquired in the C.C. Sabathia deal. Re not drafting well: They did draft Lindor in ’11. More recently they drafted Bieber, Zach Plesac, Aaron Civale. They also signed Jose Ramirez. They also have some more recent draftees that are making it up the ladder.
This might turn out to be a decent trade but the two young guys could make it a good deal. The Mets better win with all the moves they have made.
Drafted Plesac, Civale, and Bieber in the same draft. I think you mean they don’t draft outfielders well in the draft.
@kyleschwarbersmom
Gimenez is at best a league-average hitter with a good glove. He looks like a Freddy Galvis at best. And I’m not dissing Galvis but he ain’t Lindor. Nor is Rosario, he just seems to swing at everything (low walk rate chips at his value).
And as for the prospects, you don’t seem to realize how atrocious the Mets farm system is. 9th and 10th on their list are probably like 20th on a middle-of-the-pack farm list. That’s no value for Carrasco and Lindor.
Agreed the Indians got fleeced for sure, but the funny thing is that now the Mets will still suck but they’ll just suck with Lindor and Carrasco there to enjoy the suck with them. They are the Mets after all and sucking is what they do best.
Yeah! Suck it, New York!
Jed did he dumped Darvish and his contract . 35 year old with 3 years left and last year will be brutal. Only good year with Cubs was 60 game little league season . Pitching with no fans booing him. Little mental midget will choke in San Diego
2016 champs . Dodgers won Mickey Mouse World Series that will always have a asterisks beside it . Wow spend multi millions more than anyone else way to go Dodgers . Darvish trade and machado trade won them nothing .
@mikel Grady…Are you under the assumption that the Padres are the Dodgers?
DodgersFan76… Granted, I haven’t felt good about their lack of spending the last couple of years, but “poorly run organizations” don’t win a World Series and make the playoffs multiple years.
Tatsumaki
Isn’t what you said about the Cubs prospects the same as what could be said about the Indians prospects?
And saying Gimenez is mediocre, when he was a top prospect, who had a great rookie year, simply disqualifies you.
@MikelGrady – I have more of an issue with teams that don’t spend than teams that do. The Dodgers weren’t even over the luxury tax last season. And no asterisks to the World Series, sorry. Even with a shortened season, they played an extra postseason series, beat the 2 next best teams in the National League and the team with the best record in the American League. The Dodgers earned that championship.
@joe brady, sound logic there bud. The op said that Cubs deal is worse than Indians and I beg to differ. Padres farm was ranked #2 prior to moved for snell and darvish 4 prospects in there top 15 means more than the mets 2 prospects in top 10 they were ranked #13 before trade. And yes Gimenez is mediocre, all glove no bat, has a small sample size season in 60 game season but projects to be Jose Iglesias at best. Look at minors numbers (doesn’t project to be a star), to my knowledge he was never a top prospect…you also only talked about gimenez what about Rosario? Guys been in league 4 years and done nothing can’t hit and is ok with glove. No blue chip talent changing hands for Indians despite giving up a potential ace in carrasco and top 15 player in Lindor abit for only 1 year. Now compare that to what Cubs got in Davies: young, cheap and coming off his best season to date. You do the math, if you can count.
they’re saying that it seems as if the Mets and lindor are closing in on a long-term deal you know something that the Phillies should have done with JT but hey you know whatever
I think the Phils will still get JT, but at a cheaper rate than had he signed right after the trade for more than $150m. I’m predicting a market falling thru for him, and the Phils stealing him for 4/96.
as if the Phillies didn’t try. players like to bet on themselves. lindor may want to do the same. the trade and extension is hard to accomplish, but cohen has tons of money so it helps.
@VonPurpleHayes making him a Godfather offer defeats the purpose of trading then extending.
There is a chance that Cohen bought Mccann to drive down Realmuto’s asking price for the purpose of getting him cheaper.
Just sayin’
Before anyone laughs, remember that’s what he (kinda) did with Jeff Wilpon. He walked away, let the old men panic, and came back to get it for less.
@tidybowlman I don’t see it. For one, McCann would be furious that he was essentially lied to. Secondly, the Mets wouldn’t pay that much for a backup. And even with a DH, the Mets have a bit of a logjam at 1B, so JT couldn’t be moved there. It’s an interesting theory, but I doubt it.
I doubt anybody is signing JT with the idea he can move to first. His entire value is locked up in plus defense as a good hitting catcher. For the pay he’s asking, no ones gonna be happy sticking him at first base in his decline years. He’s either a catcher or he’s a middling free agent.
Say it with me. That’s it. Omg Cleveland’s owner is soooo cheap. Hmmm what other things will stupid ignorant people say? Cleveland got fleeced!
Reality is the fans here think any team who gets the player they know best wins the trade 100% of the time and think the team who sold him got fleeced. That’s how these trades work.
That’s a light return for Lindor, granted it’s a year of him but still.
That’s exactly it. It’s only a year of him.
I think the ‘deep into talks’ part of this may have something to do with extending Lindor long term? Just speculation, but WOW!
Wait for it…..boom!
If it happens, it won’t happen on day one, or even week one. Could happen before Opening Day.
Blue Jays have contacted the Mets about Lindor, Carracci
Hes also overrated, defense first, a good, not great bat
No hope for AL Central “pretenders”.
They will all tank.
White Sox to dominate for next decade.
Eat a Polish, Leo, and take a nap.
Rumors2godsears: Let me get this right. For ONE yr of Lindor & TWO yrs of Carrasco it’s a stretch to acquire not 1 but 2 young MLB infielders (Gimenez AND Rosario) who will probably be the 2B & SS for the next 3-5 yrs. In addition they get the Mets ’19 & ’20 second rd draft picks who were both highly regarded (SP & OF). Granted both of them are yrs away from the Majors. Imo, it’s a very good package for Cleveland.
Lindor doesn’t have a great bat? There are 3 players in MLB history who have 3 consecutive 30 homer 40 double seasons. Lindor is one of them.
ChiSox_Fan: The A.L. Central is going to be very competitive for the foreseeable future. No single team is going to establish dominance. The Indians aren’t rebuilding, they’re retooling. They got weaker at shortstop defensively, Lindor was leaving at the end of ’21 anyhow, but they acquired both 2B & SS. The Indians have a pretty solid rotation. They have Freeman and Nolan Jones on the verge of contributing. They also have some nice building blocks further down. The Royals starting pitching is going to be decent this yr and more arms are on the way. Witt isn’t that far away either. The Twins are a wildcard and Detroit is going to be competitive, not contending for the playoffs but they’re not going to be pushovers.
Gimenez is a great SS but he isn’t Lindor and Carrasco is a decent arm but tailed off a bit. I don’t know much about Rosario but hey it’s Cleveland so if they are happy more power to them. To me this is the package you would get at the deadline.
Who are the other two (3 consecutive 30 HR/40 double seasons)?
@rumor2godsears I think the trade is pretty fair. What Indians got back from the Mets, is what you expect. Here’s why…..
1) Lindor is possible (talks of extension though) one year piece and looking to make potentially 21.5 million this year. That’s pretty steep price without cash going to the Mets. This reducing the chance to claim a top 100 prospect.
2) Carrasco is going to be making 27 million this year and that is going to the Mets as well. This reducing even further chance of a Top 100 prospect.
3) if you done the math, that is 48.5 million for two players this year. No cash exchanged, and plenty of young prospects heading to Cleveland. There is no promises all 4 pan out, but with the numbers I posted above, getting 4 prospects under the age of 20, not a bad deal. (God I hate when I do run on sentences)
All said and done, pretty fair trade and I doubt Cleveland gets anything better. As a Pirates fan, it stinks that small market teams deal away a fan favorite to improve their future. I get your pain and will be here for you every step of the way. Being a Pittsburgh Pirates fan is the toughest thing to deal with and can help guide you through this tough time. That goes for any Indians fan that may feel betrayed, upset, angry, or just hate baseball right now, I am here for you guys. Xoxo
A good package? Only if one of them turns out to be as good as . . . Lindor. That would make it a break-even trade. But that’s not really the point, is it? The Linder trade illuminates most of what’s wrong with MLB: the age-old struggle of small market teams to compete. That’s why the League needs revenue sharing. Until that happens teams like the Indians will lose their best players to the likes of NY and LA.
That said, aren’t San Diego and Toronto the other teams spending?
W in the actual F are you talking about? Lindor at $20M is a good deal and makes your team far better. Carrasco makes $12M this year and next with an option for $14M in 23 or a $3M buyout. Carrasco is a top 15 SP over the last several years and pitched fantastically last season. He’s your #2 behind DeGrom. So that’s $32M this year for 2 elite players.
It wasn’t a fair trade. The Mets were able to take advantage of Cleveland because they have an owner that either cannot afford a major league team or will not spend to maintain one. Either way, Cleveland fans took it clean to the sack.
That’s why the League needs revenue sharing. Until that happens teams like the Indians will lose their best players to the likes of NY
———————————————–
The best player isn’t compelling.any more, NY might wind up with the best players, but CL had a better than either NY team did. And the top 5 records in the AL probably qualify as small market.
Wrong, Prospect!!!
Wait and see.
Cleveland fleeced!
@realsox as much as I hate to bring this up because 60% of baseball fans disagree with a “salary cap”. But I really believe the league should promote the salary cap to players and owners. Ball players are making so much money from richer markets. Leaving middle to small markets to rely on prospects, draft, international signings, and foreign league camps (Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Dominica Republic, etc.). Middle and Small market teams will always get the scraps that are passed by the richer markets. I honestly believe a salary cap should be in place by the time the MLPA and MLB meeting up again (I believe 2021is when the current players/owner agreement expires). Salary Cap will improve the league and open the window for more teams in the league. MLB current structure can not support anymore team since there is so many middle to small market clubs. There are only a handful of high market teams like Angels, Dodgers, Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Phillies, and (questionably) Padres. 9 out of 30 teams can spend “stupid money” without worry. The other 21 clubs have to use their money wisely and invest properly to compete yearly.
All that said, what’s the point of having 9 teams controlling the league because of riches? Every other sport that has a salary cap, has a “equal” opportunity to compete. Only the best franchises prevail through actually working and finding talent. NFL Patriots, Steelers, Chiefs, Seahawks, and few others have done well for years because of talent recognition. Cowboys (rich owner), Raiders, Jets, Dolphins, and others haven’t seen a playoff in a decade or more. NBA Golden State won championships without spending a fortune because of salary cap. NHL is one of the most competitive sports because of the salary cap. Clubs like Capitals, Maple Leafs, and others have won Stanley Cups without breaking the bank in the last 10 years. Why can’t MLB do the same and create a more competitive league and market? Oh yeah, borass will lose some money that away lol
Carrasco is making $27 million over 2 years with an option for a third year. He’s in his 30’s but that is pretty affordable.
Dude, the Maple Leafs have not won a Cup since the .1960s
I would probably think that a long term deal would be in the mix for Lindor before he is dealt
But the Indians were never giving him that long term deal, so on their side it’s still for only 1 year of Lindor or let him walk. Its up to the Mets to extend him after that.
Happy Days again in Met Ville!!
Hah!
Whatevs, @sureshot –
Yanks got Greg Allen & Nestor Cortez. You think we’re not dancing in the streets over that?
(blinkblink)
Yankees waiting for the dust to settle
They need some pitching don’t care what Cash says
Any day now…..
You can Jhoulys Chacin to that list if it helps…
Anyone have a clue how the Indians return compares to the Cubs return for Yu?
The White Sox are sitting pretty in that division now.
@Whiff Cubs got 4 upside prospects for 34 year old pitcher with 3 years left and a solid catcher.
Cleveland got 2 upside prospects for a 34 year old pitcher with 3 years left who is a lot cheaper than Yu and one of the best players in baseball.
So I would take Cubs return. Davies has trade value. Cleveland got 2 light hitting ss. But padres have been only team that has given away great returns.
Actually, Cleveland got 2 major league ready players and 2 young arms with solid upside. The Cubs got no one even close to seeing Chicago for years.
@rondon, Cleveland also gave up a good ss. The mets should at least get a draft pick out of it if they cannot extend Lindor.
You forgot that the Indians also got Gimenez who’s under control for 6 yrs.
I think it’s just 5 years of Giminez. He spent the whole on the Mets 2020 roster
What planet are you guys from? They got 2 mediocre, low ceiling middle infielders, a 20 yr old pitching prospect in low A and a 19 yr old OF prospect in rookie ball. It was a salary dump.
It was partially, mostly a salary dump but also a shrewd move to get something for a player you know you’re going to lose. The days of star players bringing back elite prospects for one year or less of control are over. Very fair trade and they should be happy with Gimenez, their SS of the now and future.
This trade would never happen without COVID=19 destroying the bottom line of teams with stingy owners like the Indians. That makes it a salary dump. You could call it shrewd but I don’t really see the prospects being that much better than getting a pick by letting him walk. And if we’re comparing the value of having an year of Lindor and Carrasco to Gimenez, that’s just absurd.
1 year of Lindor and Carrasco > 5 years of Gimenez + whatever years Rosario has remaining
This amazes me, like the other trades this winter. It seems teams are not willing to give up decent prospects at all, and yet teams are willing to dump very good players, getting whatever they can in return – even if it is almost stupid. I know Rosario is a decent player with potential, but the fact that the prospects in the deal are the Mets 9th and 10th best is astounding. Not just for Lindor, but Carrasco too? For Lindor, Clevinger, and Carrasco, the Indians got like 10 mediocre players without a single top prospect worthy of mention. Absolutely amazing. Why they would not wait until the trade deadline in July when surely they could get better players in return makes no sense at all.
I am from Chicago, and despite the good pitchers the Indians still have, I have to say I doubt the Indians will be heard from again in a while. Which is a shame, makes the division a lot less interesting as the Indians clearly now below the Twins and Sox. It’s actually bad for Sox fans, the Sox will probably win the division the next couple years without needing to add the pieces it would take to enhance their chances to play deep into October.
Padres have paid great. Other trades solid. Look at who has been aquired. Bell a dh that if you take away 1 or 2 months has never had a season over 1 war. A 34 year old that makes 20 million a year. Clevinger injury concerns. Snell who hasn’t been close to his 2018. He got a top 25 prospect and a former top 20. And a pitcher who had 1st round talent.
@YourDreamGM
Well, the Padres are looking to win now. They could be among the “good teams” making the wildcard for 7 years or try to win it all in the next 2~3. I guess they want to win a championship (unlike the Rays).
That’s crazy. I was checking a reply from someone else and hit the load new comment and seen yours to someone else, read it. Then you replied to me here. So while I am at it, you said the mets 9 10 prospect would be 20 something on most other teams. They would be 7 to 17, 9 to 12 on most teams. Someone else said 9 10 so must be a sites rankings. I like wolf more than they do then.
I fine with the padres going for it. Their trades have been the highlight of 2021 season. Hopefully they know more than their trade partners and the prospects they traded don’t amount to much. Just being real. The best hauls from the pandemic came from the padres. They got all those players because they paid the most.
Very true but also Clevinger is hurt now, Carrasco could revert to 2019 and Lindor is signed for 1 year….you want them to keep all these guys and let them walk?
@mcm No, I would not want them to keep these those guys and let them walk, but it still amazes me that they have so little value. Years ago, trades like this would usually net a good prospect or 2, not like 4-6 sub par minor leaguers unlikely to yield a single above average major leaguer.
Not at all disputing the philosophy of trading guys before they leave, but if I was a GM and had that dilemma, I would not deal for the relative scrap heap they are getting in return, that’s all. I would hold on to the players, with the hopes they might get a better offer in July or something, rather than give them away for next to nothing. Probably the GM was forced to trade due to ownership and costs, basically.
It’s possible that the Mets wanted to make sure that they could give Lindor a QO at years end in the event they could not extend him
You think the Mets made this trade to be able to give him a QO. Whatever you’re smoking please share it.
Spike is saying the QO would be a worst case scenario. The Muts obviously want to resign him.
I think the disconnect you’re having is GM’s aren’t judging these prospects on their ranking within the system, they are valuing them on their tools, and how those tools project over time. For example, take two pitchers, one in AAA and the other in low A. They both have identical ratings on their pitches. The AAA pitcher will be ranked higher because of his higher floor, and higher likelihood to contribute to the major league team. But the GM may value the younger pitcher because he thinks he can develop his pitches to be better than the older pitcher by the time he gets to the major leagues. Certainly a gamble, but one that if it pays off will produce a greater return.
Do this enough times, and it becomes less of a gamble. Especially if you’re the Indians and you’ve proven to be able to develop pitchers as well as any team.
I would say as things stand after this trade the Mets are the best MLB team in New York.
Fred, are you talking New York City or are you including the Buffalo Blue Jays?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
So are the Mets interested
I guess so…
I don’t think so
Woah!
Nice
Keep away from the doyuers
Dodgers already have a shortstop
Seagar ? Lindor is way better
Seager was better in 2021 and just won NLCS and WS MVP for them.
You got a crystal ball?
We got us a time traveler here. Already know Seager has a better season than Lindor this year.
Oof. Better in 2020. Joke’s on me I guess.
Really? I don’t remember seeing Lindor receiving the WS MVP this past season.
Linder isn’t better…at best he is equal.
Lindor too*
Seagar ? Lindor is way better
Not hardly.
Lindor gets the nod defensively
.
Seager gets the nod offensively
Seager is a better hitter and this isn’t debatable anymore.
60 game season
Way better? Lindor is a good hitter. Seager is elite.
When Seager lays off the breaking pitches below the knees he’s one of the best hitters in the game. I’d give Seager the nod overall and his bat. Lindor and Seager actually have the same career fielding percentage at SS, but Lindor has the better range and spectacular plays.
Are all of you Dodger fans actually saying that you wouldn’t like to have Lindor AND Seager on your team? That’s pretty dumb…
Seager is one of the most underrated players in baseball. LA needs to lock him up long term now, unless they’d prefer Story but I don’t see why they would.
Let’s see Seager play 150 games in a season again first. I would take Ali for in a heart beat.
I hope this happens. The Mets are fun again
They’ve got Linder for the next decade, they’re gonna be a heck of a team.
Did they sign him to an extension? If not, they have him for ’21 and the he’s a FA
C’mon, you know they’re gonna have like a 10 year extension done by the end of the day.
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
@ cheery….I missed the part where they inked Lindor to a new 10 year deal…can you post the link??
My guess is that Lindor will want out of the Mets.
I’m sure he’s gonna test the market, but if the Mets offer him the best deal, he’ll stay.
That would make the trade look worse, not better.
Why would you say that? They have a great group of guys on that team aside from just baseball.
Mets will screw up still just like always. Same old mets
Would of rathered Rosario instead of Gimenez…
I’m sure the Mets would have too
that assumes the Indians were interested in Rosario to begin with
Gimenez > Rosario so that is too obvious as to why the Tribe is interested in Gimenez. Maybe they can trade Rosario for another need.
Way less teal control for Rosario though
The Indians wouldn’t lol.
I’m sure the Mets would rather that too, but ya gotta give something to get something.
*team
Thank you for clarifying that. I thought it was a new nickname for the Marlins.
Rosario is in the deal as well.
well its both Rosario and Gimenez
MrMet17: The Indians got BOTH Rosario AND Gimenez.
wow that came out of nowhere
It’s like an RKO.
Gotta give Mets credit got being aggressive.
Lindor is an awesome fit for the Mets. Their new owner doesn’t seem be afraid to spend, either. I’d expect an extension soon after the deal is completed
Why would you expect an extension?
He’s figuring they’ll follow what the Dodgers did with Mookie. It’s possible. Takes two to tango though. Lindor may want to first see if the Mets are his cup of tea, or New York is in general. I don’t see the Mets under Cohen’s control having an issue with the money it will take to sign him. Question is will Lindor sign.
Probably because this deal kinda feels like Mookie Betts 2.0 in that a team who doesn’t want to pay an MVP caliber player is trading him away before his walk year.
I think the assumption is that if you have a player like Betts or Lindor and an owner who can spend/big market team that they’re going to want to extend the player that they’re acquiring. Not saying they actually will extend him because it’s not entirely the Mets choice, but seems like Cohen would at least try.
Course they’ll try. Why wouldn’t they? Lindor isn’t the type of player who would extend though.
Why wouldn’t you?
Because Lindor isn’t that type of player and the Mets aren’t an organization that players actively want to play for.
New owner in town, in case you missed it.
Gonna take more than that to change the way players view that team.
Blah Blah, you probably had the same tired speech w Mookie-
When are you guys going to learn to read BETWEEN the lines ?
Remember way back when Sandy said they wouldnt trade from the farm?
Are you seriously comparing the Mets to the Dodgers??????
And it’s not as if the Dodgers didn’t pay Mookie. Nor is it as if they had to extend him for that trade to pay off for them.
At the end of the day isn’t it basically just money that talks? You don’t have to be the Dodgers or Yankees to sign someone to a huge deal.
Like the Padres don’t have a glorified history/amazing reputation or anything but Machado took the $300M they offered. Same thing with Rendon and the Angels, they’re like notorious for not being able to get Trout to the playoffs, but they met Rendon’s price so now he plays for them.
If the Mets meet Lindor’s price, why wouldn’t he take the money?
Well sure everyone has a price. But as has been said before, if you make him a Godfather offer that defeats the purpose of trading then extending.
You can keep typing the same comment over and over, but it doesn’t make it true. You are constantly regurgitating this tired argument about Realmuto but it’s completely unrelated. That’s a different crappy franchise that made a different crappy trade, years ago. Stop repeating yourself everyone is sick of it.
JT Realmuto is actually a perfect example of why you shouldn’t assume that the player will just magically fall in love with the place and sign for half of what the market would have offered just because you traded for him.
Spot-on. I’d suggest that Lindor has an additional advantage now that the NYMs have spent so much just acquiring him. It is a lot like the Realmuto trade. Philly gave up some good talent to acquire him, and are in a position where they need to spend real money to keep him, plus real money to replace Sanchez.
@CNichols BuT tHe WhItE sOx OfFeReD mAcHaDo MoRe MoNeY tHaN tHe PaDrEs!
Nope Im comparing Mookie to Lindor
If you think the Mets today, who just traded their 2 young ss for Lindor are not going to field Lindor for 22 and beyond then I guess we just disagree-
Solid chance he has a 7 yr extension by sun-down Sunday night
Like Mookie, it’ll take a 10-year deal.
“If you think the Phillies today, who just traded their best pitching prospect for Realmuto are not going to field Realmuto for 21 and beyond then I guess we just disagree-” – probably Cap & Crunch 2 years ago.
Oh. And it will take way more than 7 years to get Lindor to forego his one shot at the open market. Mookie Betts will be 40 when his contract expires so start there.
A 10/350 is the opening discussion. Lindor’s agent knows Cohen’s new reputation will be dented if he trades for and only gets one season out of Lindor. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they have to up to the $400 million range. More than Betts because of the circumstances. No Covid discount here.
Please, 10/350 is not the opening bid. It’s likely more than he’ll get. Fans are always prepared to overpay big names with other peoples money.
Betting that how much things open up during Covid this year may have a say in whether Lindor takes an extension. If it looks like a poor revenue year for the sport, he may be more willing to listen to the Mets offer.
Only getting one season out of Lindor won’t have any effect on Cohen’s reputation. Why would it? Lindor signing an extension was never part of the deal.
10/350 sounds absurd. I would say the comp is more to Anthony Rendon’s 7/245 deal. I know they play different positions but Rendon is the better hitter and Lindor is the better defender. Probably evens out to that kind of deal.
Woah! That came out of the middle of nowhere. I can’t wait to see what the rest of the return is.
That’s probably close to it. Some low-level minor leaguers to fill it out. Gimenez is a legit major league SS with 5 years of control. Lindor’s a stud but he’s only guaranteed for one year and you have to pay him $30m a year after that.
Rosario is more of a trade chip at this point for New York, while Giminez felt more like the Mets shortstop of the future. Stings a bit to lose a talented young player, but a trade requires talent on both sides. Wolf is also a talented, albeit very young, pitcher.
I would be lying if I told you that I didn’t pee my pants a little bit with excitement.
Wash your hands….and your pants for heaven’s sake….
ladies and gentlemen…Mets fans
It could have been worse. Other bodily fluids to consider.
Ok, bring back the black jerseys now!
The most thing about the black mets jerseys is that they use a different shade of orange and blue. It would look way better if the black jerseys had the same color ways.
Frankie’s gonna absolutely own the Big Apple…..needs to be there. He can be Pat Mahomes in that market.
Nit everyone can survive there, let alone thrive.
Frankie is MLB’s most marketable asset. Let’s face it, Trout would rather watch the Eagles, and Mookie would rather be bowling.
Lindor will light up Shea.
Mr. Smile!!!
Eloy Jimenez is next in line to become MLB’s most marketable asset.
heard of that Harper guy?
Tatis, Soto, Acuna…
Yes!!! #LFGM
Mets getting Lindor and Carrasco. Wow…
NOOO! I was so hoping the Blue Jays would get him. I don’t blame the Mets though, I blame Shatkins. Incompetent front office.
You sound surprised? Did you ever think Rogers cared about anything other than making a lot of noise while spending very little to garner big profits? They don’t care about the fans, the team or winning, they only care about profit and if by chance the others go hand in hand with profit, they will pretend to care as cheap as they can.
Was only a matter of time until the “Blue Jays would have had him if the Front Office and Rogers cared about winning” hot take of the day.
As great as Lindor is they do not need him for one season at the expense of Gurriel. If SS is a problem they can sign him or Baez or Story or Seager or Correa next year.
Now is not the time to blame the FO when plenty of needs are available.
Because the Blue Jays are really hurting at SS with 22-year old Bo Bichette in place for at least the next 5 years? Before you start crying too much why not let the offseason play out. The Jays have been famously connected to ever major FA this offseason and I’d bet they will land at least one from among Trevor Bauer, George Springer, JT Realmuto and DJ LeMahieu.
Met fans were whining plenty too. I’m guessing we won’t be hearing much of that in the wake of this blockbuster trade and another key FA acquisition or two still likely.
cheeerry . Would you have given up Gurriel-Thornton-Van Eyk and Machado . That is similar value to what the Mets gave up.
These morons don’t have a clue who you’re talking about. You’ll have to translate it into players on the Toronto Maple Leafs
To me the jays wouldn’t have to give up Gurriel and much more than a lower prospect in the system for that package. Gurriel is under team control and has great contract. Carrasco in this current market I don’t believe is a asset at all. And when you attached him to a 20 million dollar player it’s less valuable know matter how talented the player is in this pandemic market, given how teams aren’t eager to add salary.
dayum
Intrigue!
I gather they’ll attempt a Mookie, post-trade extension, but first let’s see if the trade happens.
Still won’t be a contender
um okay then
I don’t see how any honest fan can say that now. Two biggest needs addressed here. Defense and starting pitching. Not to mention Lindor’s bat. Mets are definitely competing this year. I still like the Braves for the division, but Mets are legit.
Lindors bat isnt that good
The Mets didn’t need his bat. It’s just a bonus. And it’s not bad.
Yes, they are. Between Lindor and Carrasco, the Mets added a modest 5+ WAR at the minimum for next season. If they perform well, it’s 10 WAR.
I don’t know why this is priority when they need a few other things that only cost money and not prospects. Unless they extend him there is no need for this trade
The need is to add an elite player for a playoff push in 2021.
It frees up Rosario to be moved. A deal like this typically leads to other moves when incumbent starters are pushed out of position.
Rosario seems to be also part of the deal going to the Cleveland Americans.
They needed defense and starting pitching. They got both.
Anybody know what some of the other pieces are yet, cause I can’t get on Twitter cause I’m in school.
Don’t lie to me, Mr. President.
Is there a 3rd team involved?
Dom Smith and JD Davis?
Corey Oswalt ?
No
Let’s go Mets!
Holy crap! When can Cohen sign my adoption papers, cause he’s my daddy!
I swear if Gimenez is the main piece, then this is quite the steal.
you might need to chill
Might?
My goodness. I’d only heard about how the Yankees and others were in on Lindor, not the Mets.
The Yankees were never in on Lindor, just media stories speculating how he’d be a good fit. Frankly, there wasn’t any legitimate stories about Lindor connected to any team beyond the Blue Jays, but every player is being connected to the Blue Jays this offseason.
Lindor was never going to be traded for with the Yankees. Alderson did a good job keeping negotiations quiet.
And why not?
The Indians certainly would have traded him to any team that had an interest in him, outside of probably the Twins or White Sox. A team in another division or league? A trade partner. The Indians were desperately looking to shed money. The issue is the Indians had a very limited market of teams to deal with because only top contenders needing a SS and willing to trade for him on a one-year rental, and with money to spare, and a desire to make a splash, were on the short list. In the end, the Mets were nearly the only trade partner, beyond maybe the Blue Jays. The Dodgers might have stepped in on a fire sale, but Lindor is not a necessity for them. He’s not a necessity for the Yankees who are focusing their resources this offseason on other issues. I can make an argument that the Angels should have been in on this deal too, but not on a one year rental for Lindor. The team that needed him the most is the team that got him.
Hadn’t considered the Angels since their focus was on pitching, but they would have made sense since Carrasco was moved as part of this deal. Not sure Moreno was going to step up money wise, and I’m not sure what they would have offered talent wise.
Yes, he wasn’t on the Yankees radar this off season.
I wonder if corasco made the return cost more or less since the Indians are clearly looking to cut salary
More
Carrasco is an extremely valuable get in his own right and actually accepted a below-market deal to remain with the Indians. He’d get a nice return on his own, perhaps even more than Lindor considering Lindor is a one-year rental and more expensive. So, in answer to your question, he’ll increase the price of the deal.
Now it could be that the Indians were not getting traction on Lindor alone, so they were forced into including Carrasco to get the return they wanted. We shall see when the details are announced.
Indians loved cutting carasco money. Just happened Mets had interest in both players.
Giving the money Lindor is going to make and add Carrasco’s contract I’m pretty sure it hurt the return. How many teams right now were willing to take on that money? Two. Indians didn’t have a lot of leverage in the deal.
Then they should have separated the two players in the deal. Deal Lindor to the Mets, and then deal Carrasco to teams looking for pitching. Carrasco’s deal is below market. An argument can be made he’d have been the best pitcher available not named Bauer, and another argument could be made he’s better than Bauer.
oml
sry man… there are lots of options for people in your position
im really not that bothered by this. ive already said that I think the Mets are better then us. it was always going to be a matter of taking care of our own business regardless.
You’re right- they are both crappy franchises with long histories of losing.
AND COOKIE!!! WTF COHEN!!!
Josh Wolf is also in the return, according to DiComo
Rosenthal, not DiComo
NL East was already the toughest division. This just solidifies it.
The NL East is getting scarier IMO
Yea. Except for the Phillies.
im still not terribly scared of the Nats and the Marlins until they make a move or two.
I think the Marlins are headed in the right direction now, but their 2020 was a bit of a fluke. They’re still a couple years away.
Nats will be a lot better by virtue of health. I don’t necessarily think the Marlins are better than the Phillies, but they do destroy them head to head for some reason.
I’m a Braves’ fan. The Mets are going to be a tough out.
Mets will be better than Braves on paper. Have to wait and see how the Mets run the bases.LOL
Maybe, but unfortunately, the games aren’t played on paper, just ask the 2011 Red Sox.
No they won’t. They never are.
Well, sometimes they are. 2020 Dodgers
Holy cow!
Not happening for a guy in his walk year
Wut?
And boom goes the dynamite. Met fans can relax now. Cohen did it.
That trade was all Sandy Alderson bro.
@MrMet1979 Sandy can’t get all the credit, because you need the money to have the confidence to resign Lindor, Conforto and Thor. Otherwise this trade never happens.
@VonPurpleHayes well sure it does. This trade did not have signing Lindor in mind.
You have no way of knowing that. Stop repeating yourself.
Sure I do. If it did they would have made the trade contingent on an extension, like what the Reds did with Sonny Gray or the Blue Jays with R. A. Dickey. Ain’t no reason the Mets couldn’t have done that.
Well, what about the Mookie Betts trade. There wasn’t any assurance he was going to sign an extension.
Lindor doesn’t seem intent on signing before free agency anyway. A lot of extensions do result in a below-market deal — Sonny Gray, Jacob deGrom — to name a few.
The pandemic was the assurance after the fact. The Dodgers offered a ridiculous amount of money and Mookie was smart enough to take it
I’m not really relaxing yet. I still think the Braves are better. And at this point, Matz or Lugo are slotted in at number 4 & that’s pretty scary. But I don’t want to sound like a downer. I like the trade a lot
I mean how greedy can you get? hahah. but yeah. the braves are still really good, and i think better on paper, but the fact is he mets made a ton of moves. they were a last place team last year. i don’t care how much you discount the 2020 season, they stunk. now we’re talking about them competition with the braves for the division. and i think they will compete. to me, that’s a good offseason. They could still make more splashes (Springer…etc), but they don’t need to. They addressed every single need in some fashion. They have financial flexibility to resign and extend everyone who needs to be extended. The injured Syndergaard is just a bonus now which is insane. The Mets are a real good team on paper.
I’d still feel better with the Mets getting another SP & LHRP. They got much better today. Getting Carrasco included was big for them. It sent a message to free agent pitchers this season that there are other ways to help fill their rotation. Maybe there will be some movement now.
If they can pull off this trade and sign Springer, I think there is a new front runner in the East. Love seeing front offices go for it
Braves pitching.
Braves definitely have the nod in rotation but Mets have the better offense and the best pitcher. If they sign Springer this lineup would be deadly.
I love when teams go for it and don’t win. I love when the teams who people say aren’t trying to win who don’t make any moves just relying on their players to improve and they win. It’s really makes the Scott Boras’s and anyone who declares the winners of the offseason look like absolute goofs.
Mets have at least 4 guys who leave a lot to be desired defensively. With Springer I would call it 1a 1b if braves don’t replace Ozuna.
I thought Carrasco to the Angels made sense for both sides.
The good candidates are coming off the board.
Angels should see what it costs to trade for Hendricks
As Tom Petty said, the waiting is the hardest part.
And I wont back down !
Don’t come around here, no more!
Not Rosario? I guess that’s a little surprising.
So Rosario either moves to second (McNeil to 3b) or is part of a following trade. Could it be a three team deal?
I do hope there is a CF defender involved along with a healthy, proven starting pitcher.
Gimenez is a prospect who will most likely never approach Lindor numbers offensively or even be an All Star. But he is realistically a decent starting shortstop with a good glove, versatility and speed.
If it’s 1:1, you don’t need to go deep into talks, even if money is involved. That says scouting reports and additional names are being negotiated.
I could see Matz, Lugo, Salazar, Plesac, Naquin and Davis being involved. Maybe Perez (catcher) and Nido. Indians and Mets match up well for a prospective fantasy baseball blockbuster trade scenario.
With Lindor on board, Rosario is probably available to the highest bidder. Love to see Gray or Castillo from the Reds in Mets uniform.
Sorry, I meant Carrasco. Salazar is a free agent.
Appears Rosario is gone to the highest bidder already…
Rosario is part of the deal. It’s Rosario and Gimenez for Lindor and Carrasco
People could spare themselves a lot of time and brain power just by waiting till the trade is announced in full.
@iverbure – what fun is that? We are all fans!
As a lifelong Metsomaniac, I’ve been pretty disappointed since David Wright’s back ailments took him out of the game. But the Mets minor league system has really produced the past 5 years or so. This team’s core is homegrown which is even more fun!
If this goes through and the Mets then extend Lindor to a big money extension, I wonder how it affects their pursuit of Bauer and Springer. Lindor’s bat reduces the need for Springer. Carrasco reduces the need for Bauer. I know Cohen has deep pockets, but how much will they spend this year?
Maybe a 3B. Depends on whether or not Davis is heading to Cleveland.
I don’t think they bother with either now. They can focus on Hendriks. Roll with these starters. Use their money to sign Lindor, Conforto and Thor. Compete for the next 5 years. Job done.
I think they sign springer
I don’t. I think this was a huge move. They’re fine. Springer wants insane money. They can let him go elsewhere.
I am of the approach that this was the big move as well – Id pass on Jtr DlM Bauer Springer and Liam as of today – Theres still a buncha other quality players to be had and they got the trade deadline and next years great fa crop as well before 22 begins-
They SHOULD NOT act like this is a 1 year plan – Take advantage of all the great 1 or 2 yr deals you can get right now on guys like Hand ,Garrett Richards, Kiki etc – Us your money to push them towards you by offering an extra mill short term to keep the yrs/risk down long term (Atl style) – Keep yourself Fluid Cohen and you will play from the top of the hill for the next couple years
Keep spending as long as you don’t have much competition. Springer for 100 yes. 150 no. Get a good deal if not drive up the price for the competition.
I think it lessens the need for Bauer, yes, but not Springer. If this goes through I predict Springer signs with the Mets within 10 days. It sends a signal that the Mets are in this year and not waiting 3-5 years.
Center field is a gaping hole for us and the biggest +WAR area to change. It’s obvious that Cohen has a plan.
Oh this news def doesnt bring smiles to the BIG 4 left !!!
Toronto Philly other active GMs have to have a smile on their face right now
Time to roll up your sleeves and play hardball if your a GM
Lindors bat is weak.
A 118rc+ and .350woba is not weak.
Tali’s is overrated.
2020 Wild Card Series Game 2 against the Yankees. Of the Indians starting 10, only 4 players remain. Lindor, Hernandez, Santana, Naquin, DeShields and Carrasco all gone.
Exactly the move the Mets needed to make. Well done.
Cleveland is setting up for 2022.
In what way is Cleveland “setting up” for 2022? The two prospects they got (#9 and #10 in a very weak system) are 19 and 20 years old. Not even a given both will ever play in the major leagues. Gimenez is a dime-a-dozen glove first SS, not even the Mets best SS prospect.
They have enough pitching to keep them in games. They are waiting for their top hitting prospects to get their feet wet in 2021. It’s not a rebuild until they deal Ramirez and some arms.
AL Central is still not strong. It wouldn’t take much for the Indians to contend with their pitching staff.
Those guys are top 10 in most systems. Mets system rankings aren’t as high because of lack of elite top 100 talent.
Not sure if this was directed at me. I was referring to Nolan Jones plus Gimenez, the Naylors, all getting at bats in 2021 (maybe only the elder Naylor). To compete in the AL Central in 2022 isn’t far fetched and I do believe Cleveland is looking toward that. Otherwise they’d unload more players and go full rebuild.
Cleveland is a Ramirez deal away from being in a full rebuild now. Bieber & Plesac are still on rookie deals, so they stay no matter what (Bieber might be year 1 ARB at most). I hope Cleveland figures out how to keep J-Ram but I wouldn’t bank on it. The Cleveland financial situation is really bleak and by selling off their best players, future attendance will drop again given the nature of their fans (once fans are allowed back). Cleveland could end up being as cheap as Tampa & Pitt when it’s all said and done. Terry Francona might be the most expensive piece left on the team. It’s such a shame to see a once proud franchise have to drop to this level. I really don’t think it has to do with the owner being ‘cheap’. These moves are being made out of financial necessity. Indians fans need to come out and support their team and the Indians organization needs to negotiate a better TV deal too, or this franchise may end up having to move in order to have a chance to survive. Such a shame…beautiful ballpark too.
Return is light so far, needs to have some top level talent in there if carrasco is involved….I think this bodes well for dodgers if they were to acquire arenado via trade and the return is low for lindor and carrasco
Return is light so far…..Says who….you…and what team are you the GM for again?
2 mediocre mlb regulars and 2 guys barely in mets top 10 = weak return
I don’t believe Dodgers are going to make any trade with Cleveland, or Rockies. They would ruin their future payroll.
Its way different to trade for Lindor before his walk year as opposed to trading for Arenado with his opt out still coming up after this year. Thats such a knuckleball for his value.
There is a zero chance that Arenado opts out of his deal. He was overpaid at the time he signed it and has played below average (from his career skillset) since then. No team would pay him as much, if not more than what he’s already owed so he isn’t opting out of his deal regardless of what team he is on. Arenado’s deal isn’t as bad as Stanton’s but if Colorado can find a way to move it, they’d be really smart to do so now. In a couple of years, it becomes immovable (like Stanton).
Screw Arrenando they need to get on the phone for Jose Ramierez at this moment
Cap crunch I like the way you think man, never thought of that! Wonder if lux as headliner would be a good starting point
Won’t be lux.
Lux Ruiz White gets you 90% if not all the way there
Rios & Lux for J-Ram. Cleveland would do that deal in NY minute! J-Ram in LA would be deadly. You could put a dead fish in to play 2B and they’d still lead the league in all offensive categories.
Lux and Rios isn’t nearly enough. Lux hasn’t proven himself in the big leagues and Rios is nothing much. I think you would have to replace Rios with Dustin May or something to get a deal done.
Wow! Great job Mets. This is going to be a great season in the NL
Damn…that’s like next to nothing for two very good players.
And Cleveland guarantees at least a decade of mediocrity for themselves
They have a lot of talent in their system, they should hit on a few guys. They have the pitching now, just no bats are ready.
I am not up to speed on the Mets farm system, but if I was Cleveland I would only trade Lindor etc. for establishing players who have proved they aren’t just a prospect at minimum. If fans are allowed in 2021 they are telling the fans to stay away. At worst you keep him, and get better results at trade deadline possibly.
Teams don’t like to trade established players that are good for 1 year rentals. And cleveland was good with lindor and attendance still dropped. Full fans doesn’t seem likely and I have no idea how 2022 is going to go.
Its Cleveland, fans stay away regardless.
Discount Dolan planning to move the team to Nashville.
That’s why the upcoming name change and the stadium lease expires in two years.
Joke ownership. Never trust a Dolan.
If it makes you feel any better, NY has its own Dolan problem in another sport.
Unbelievably, Cleveland has the better Dolan!
If the trade is completed as reported on here BTV says it favors the Mets by $6.2m
Strike that. It’s $1.5m
But…… But ……But ………they told us they were’nt going to trade from the farm??? How could this be? Geez I told everyone like a parrot this would never happen blah blah blah
Shout out to those of you still think for themselves these days…. and Cohen and the Mets ofc !!!
Wow. The market for Lindor must have been dead as a post. This is close to the level where MLB might want to be concerned about long term competitiveness, when a team can snag two players at the level of Carrasco and Lindor for a glove first SS and a couple far away lotto picks, just because they’re the only team with money to spend.
Not sure this is much better than taking a QO but their payroll should be about 12 dollars now.
Well, it’s better than that, just because there are multiple prospects in the deal. But not much. I guess Cleveland just literally could not pay Lindor’s contract, and therefore had no choice.
I don’t think they could afford not to pay him.
The owners run MLB not the league because without the owners there is no MLB…..so owners will make decisions that make sense to them for motivations we really no very little about….MLB is not a democracy……its a business….the owners run the league and what their view of anything including competitiveness is up to them.
Not only team with “money to spend” but maybe the only team WILLING to spend money. That is not the fault of the team willing to spend. Besides they spent prospects not money. Why would Lindor not want to test market next year???
All this goes to show that everyone who comments really doesn’t know squat about what may or may not happen….fun to debate though which is all anyone on this site really does…..the decisions are being made at an entirely different level and they aren’t asking anyone else for help in making them.
Well of course. MLBTR is simply a place to go with rumors and then fans saying fan-like things. I don’t come here for insight. I come here to vent!
Very well put!
It also goes to show dont buy what your spoon fed from the media
This place is a great place to share ideas but a lot of the times you get really narrow lines created; The thought every org will do the same thing year in year out is far too often thrown around in here –
Gms are people too, they make mistakes, but more importantly they are ever-evolving in their craft –
We can get a feel, we can speculate and debate, what we shouldnt do is slam doors shut based upon what some org did 2 years ago. This is not a puzzle, all the pieces are not going to fit together perfectly at the end
“The full Mets-Indians trade involves six players switching teams, per sources.
Mets receive: Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco
Indians receive: Amed Rosario, Andrés Giménez, Josh Wolf,
Isaiah Greene”
WOW.
Im not upset at this deal as a mets fan. We have Mauricio coming up. And the prospects, arent devestating.
Mauricio isn’t ready for prime time yet. I’m thinking 23 be the earliest
This trade does not solve our bigger issues. 3B and CF is a complete joke. Rosario and Gimenez could have evolved into a very good pair in the middle infield. McNeil is almost 30 and can play everywhere in the field. He can also show off his shoddy glove and his noodle arm in those positions.
Would much rather have kept Rosario and Gimenez and addressed SP, 3B, CF in a different manner. No reason we couldn’t sign a Bauer and/or Springer (which we might do anyway) and use McNeil to pull in a quality 3B.
You can have Kevin Kermyer and Yandy Diaz from the Rays for an Ed Charles bobblehead, if you agree to take on KK’s contract.
Not giving up the Ed Charles bobblehead for that light return!
Could be that talks with Bauer were going nowhere. I do not know what Bauer is looking for but he is from :LA and went to school at UCLA. Quite possible he has no desire to pitch on the east coast for anyone. Considering he has been a little eccentric in his baseball career, I can see that. On the same note I could see him actually sign with any team too. Will be interesting to see what he actually does.
I bet Bauer desire to pitch in LA would decrease if a east coast team paid him more money. Just a hunch. He has already lost the desire to sign nothing but 1 year contracts it seems.
That’s good stuff nerd!
Guillorme could play third base as well. And if JD Davis can recoup some of his 2019 offensive magic, it could help offset his defensive deficiencies. It also helps to have him right next to Lindor — maybe Lindor’s range can help out Davis.
Given the return, it seems like the best deal available, especially if they don’t care how much money they spend.
I’m not opposed to giving Davis a full season at 3b, which is his natural position. Let him get up to speed again, defensively, even if that’s just league average.
He is run producing right handed bat who hits lefties and righties. His obp is outstanding and seems to barrel up a ball 3 times a game.
With a full spring training to get ready and the confidence of his coaching stuff, I think Davis is the real deal.
28/100/.285/.850. I’ll take that from the 5 or 6 hole.
I’d be ok with Davis as an everyday 3B guy too cuz of the bat. But his D is gonna be terrible. His natural position is DH.
@Bearcat: Same here. I didn’t want them to pull any major trades because I thought they’d have to give up more than this. Carrasco makes this deal so much better.
Mets fan have been wanting something to happen. I would say you got your wish and then some.
Aww man you mean Yankee fans offer of Voit Andujar didn’t get it done?
Of course we haven’t heard 100 other bad trade proposals on MLBTR this offseason…
This is a great trade for the Mets as they now can have a switch hitting stud shortstop and another arm to the Rotation you can possibly close the door on Bauer & possibly Springer and they could instead opt for Jackie Bradley.
Indians return is not too bad people are forgetting Lindor will walk and why wait until the season to trade him and risk him getting hurt and thus getting even nothing just wondering if the Indians reached out to any other teams regarding the offer of Lindor & Carrasco?
For the Mets everyone knew that Cohen coming in is going to try and change the dynamics of the team and this bodes well for NY as well across the board gives the Yankees some back page news.
Good for the Mets & once again bad for Mid-Market teams;
They are (allegedly) trying to contend in 2021 is the reason why they should not trade him.
My gut tells me they still sign springer but then maybe hand or a cheap SP option like Hamels
@dime. Nope, they only reached out to the mets. Who knows what other teams may have offered. If only they knew that Cleveland was looking to cut salary.
There’s legitimately going to be maybe 5 teams tops that come out of the offseason looking like they’re trying to win a World Series in 2021. Baseball is killing itself.
Agreed. As a part-time Mets fan, I love this. I think they may be better than the Yankees now. As a baseball fan, I hate it. There are big big problems in the industry.
You need to be concerned about the Braves not the Yankees
no there arent
There are not problems now but if viewership on TV keeps going down outside of NY, LA and Chicago, The game will decline as the National TV money will go down and put a bite in to the finances. Until then, the game is still in ok shape.
If they want more viewers in those markets they should stop the blackouts
i dont think not making a big splash means you aren’t trying to compete. look at the Rays last year for example.
And they are all in the NL east
Not that enticing to pay the price for talent when you can’t have the benefits of a full ball park.
Ya but the Yanks got Greg Allen.
Who is running the indians now? 8 year olds running around trading baseball cards and big league chew? This is a flippin disgrace to baseball and whatever the h*ll the indians want to call themselves now
Smart move for the indians.
Terry Francona is their highest paid person on the team now!
Sure Cleveland got fleeced but compared to Cubs GM Jed Hoyer he looks like the President of Mensa.
Cubs did fine. They got a really solid SP and Yu is 35. They might well have won that deal.
@daddytbone
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Teams don’t win trades the day they are announced. Give it three years and we’ll see who truly won these trades.
I actually like Hoyers return more than this one and they don’t give up 2 really really good players.
Same here. A lot more. Prospect quality is similar. Cubs got twice as many. Rather have Davies to trade vs 2 light hitters.
I would take carasco over yu. And lindor over the catcher.
Prospect quality is similar?!?! In what way?
Mets have one of the worst farm systems in the league and gave up their 9th + 10th prospects. Cubs got 4 top-20 prospects in a stacked Padres farm. You can make the argument that every single prospect the Cubs got is better than any prospect the Indians did.
And btw, you’re putting too much weight into a pitcher that’s been injured for much of the last few years. Carrasco isn’t as good as Yu.
Similar as far as value. The two Mets prospects are on par (actually even better I wanted to play it safe) with what padres gave the Cubs. Did you rank these prospects and all 30 teams prospects or just going off some website? Green is about right but wolf is higher than 9 for me.
Cookie looked fine to me last season and before that he had cancer so I will cut him a break. And I never said he was better than Yu. I said I would take him over yu.
@sadredsfan. Before bashing the Mets farm system, please realize that:
1b Alonso. Roy mlb record hr
2b McNeil. Hit machine
SS. Rosario/Gimenez just used to acquire a top 5 SS
3b. Davis acq for minors
LF Dom Smith
CF. Nimmo
RF. Conforto
C.
Sp. deGrom. 2 time cy
Sp. Carrasco acq for minors
Sp Peterson
Sp. Lugo
Sp. Matz. Weakest link
Rp. Diaz. Acq for minors
Rp. Gsellman.
Rp. Familia
The Mets farm system has been pretty darn lucrative in recent years, so it might only be logical that it’s thin right now.
It’s about time the Mets made a deal like this!! Good for them. But still by far second fiddle in nyc congrats though!!
what moves have the Yankees done this offseason?
Greg Allen, duh
DarkSide, you’re obviously not a New Yorker.
Now the Mets need to trade Dom Smith and JD Davis for more prospects to replenish their farm.
Then sign DJL and George Springer.
I think Davis and Smith are fine right where they are now. Both are young and productive hitters with great work ethics. If the NL adopts the DH or Alonso misses time, either one can move to 1B.
The only reason to bolster the minors is to acquire more pitching depth and add fringe vets at the top level in the event of injuries. You don’t trade young guys with proven mlb track records when you are contending to add guys who might never wear a Mets uniform.
Cohen should be wearing a black mask because this is robbery
I disagree.
Mets gave up a lot. It was a great move for the win-now Mets, but they gave up 2 prospects and 2 young, mlb talents. They took on money. And Lindor is a rental who could possibly test FA next year. So I absolutely love the move for the Mets, but it is not robbery.
Agreed
Rosario has had a pretty good look, I think he is what he is at this point. Two flyer prospects, bench player and Gimenez. I’d say the Mets did really well and if they extend Lindor this is an absolute slam dunk. This trade seems light for Carrasco by himself considering his contract.
Holy crap the Mets got Lindor and Carasco without giving up a top prospect! Lindor is an elite player easy top ten player in the sport and Carasco is the most underrated pitcher in baseball and arguably better than Bauer! Thank you Sandy and Porter!
Hat tip to Cohen. He’s spending on his team, as promised.
Two of their top 4 prospects are shortstops so they bring back two SSs in the deal? SMH…
Trade chips?
Was that? Tss
@Polish Hammer
You make it sound as if having talented shortstops is a bad thing. You do realize that they can play other positions on the field right?
You can usually move players off of SS to 3B/2B/CF/LF etc… pretty easily because they have the defensive skillsets to handle other positions, whereas if you have a ton of 1B prospects for example, you’re kinda stuck with them blocking each other because they’re less versatile.
A lot of the best farm systems sign/draft a ton of shortstops knowing that some will naturally get moved off the position as they develop and if not they can probably learn other positions. If you look at the Rays, probably like 5 or 6 of their top 20 prospects are SS. Padres did this too when they went big in international spending a few years back, basically just signed all the SS knowing they could move them elsewhere if necessary.
Their top prospect is a 3B who is blocked by Ramirez.
These SS aren’t short term, both are very young and controllable, both SS prospects should be in Cleveland by next season.
Moving one to 2B makes sense, but they won’t be going to 3B and don’t fit anywhere else.
The Tribe needed an OF with pop.
Wait are you talking about Rocchio and Freeman? Or Arias?
Rocchio is 19 and hasn’t played above low A ball. He’s not coming in 2021, maybe he gets there 2022, but he probably needs like at least 2 more years in the minors to hit before he’s ready. Freeman at least played high A and he’s 21, but again I don’t know if you can really count on him to get there in 2021, probably should take a year at AA then come up in 2022. Arias is the same issue, 20 years old and never played above High A.
Basically who knows what CLE’s roster is going to look like in 2023, its still a good thing to have multiple options for SS/2B/LF. You don’t know who is going to pan out from that group, but maybe you have Arias in LF, Freeman at 2B and Gimenez at SS in 2023. Or some other combination. It’s not a bad thing to have those options.
Meant next year (2022] not next season (2021). You give up a franchise icon and top 10 player in all of MLB you’d better get more than fill a hole for a year.
Yeah I don’t disagree with that, I guess my point is just its not bad to have numerous middle infielders/middle infield prospects. Its still value, even if its not the specific OF with pop replacement that you wanted.
I’d way rather have this return that what the Cubs got for Darvish.
These ss are more short term. Their prospects are a few years away.
Who backs up Lindor ?
Springer in CF? :: -)
Luis Guillorme. He’s a perfectly fine backup
Well Great! There goes the Bluejays Big off season Plan!
Wait… I thought only the Padres were allowed to make huge deals this offseason???
I was hoping to keep Gimenez as utility guy and future 2b or 3b, but I’ll take it. Didn’t have to give up big prospects either
Mets better hope Lindor bounces back because in 2020 he was not good. That was definitely not a superstar effort last season.
Lindor was superficially OK with the bat in ’20 and superficially good with the stick in ’19. The truth is, you’d have a difficult time compiling much of a highlight reel from the last two years, strictly using LIndor’s AB’s. And that’s because he hit less than .190 with RISP over that time. When the Tribe needed him the most, he provided very very little. That’s a stretch of well over 200 games of hitting 50% worse than the average player–the AVERAGE player!– in that situation. He’s pressing in big spots, chasing pitches, hitting pop-ups and weak grounders…now he might relax in New York (why, I have no idea) but for Cleveland fans, he’s been a massive disappointment over the last two years, especially when the expectation was that he’d have monster seasons in his prime years when he was closing in on free agency.
Didn’t happen.
NOT saying they are at all comparable, but just realize that Francisco Lindor and Andres Gimenez had EXACTLY the same OPS+ in 2020: 102. So spare me the idea that paying Lindor $22m this year is something the Tribe needs to be doing when they can pay the minimum for Gimenez AND have him for four more years after that.
is Bieber next?
Bieber to the Yankees for any player they want except “The Martian” or Cole ( even Judge)
if you wouldnt do Jasson for Bieber straight up you are absurd
I am sure part of the appeal was shipping Lindor and Carrasco out of the AL.
I’m betting Jose Ramirez is next
He’s cheap, so he’s staying put…for now.
So the Indians get one top prospect and one decent MLB player. What the h*ll are they doing.
Would have preferred to keep Giménez and include a player like Davis instead. Certainly didn’t think Isiah Greene would be included either.
Seems like quite a meh haul for the Indians for what they gave up. I mean come on… lol 2 players of this caliber should empty a farm system like the Mets. Of course, I’m bias and want the Mets to more than overpay, so maybe I’m not rationally thinking.
It’s prob a fine trade, but I hate it
Indians did fine. I like wolf more than ranking sites do. And it’s a player coming off a weak year and 1 year left that isn’t cheap. And a good pitcher who has surplus but isn’t that cheap. And only good hauls the past year have been given by the padres.
Cleveland got a healthy haul. Lindor is an excellent player, but he is worth about 5 WAR for one season. Gimenez looks like an adequate bat with an outstanding glove.. Rosario is a bit all over the place, but he was plenty good in 2019.
In addition, both these guys step in and start immediately.
Wolf & Greene are a bit far away, but both were recent high picks.
“Meh” is not a word. Expand your vocabulary, and resist the laziness of typing out sounds.
Says ‘lolz’ Mets?!
lolzmets: you expand YOUR vocabulary. Meh IS a word. Don’t be an uninformed troll.
meh
/me,me,me/
informal exclamation
exclamation: meh
expressing a lack of interest or enthusiasm.
“Meh. I’m not impressed so far”
adjective
adjective: meh
uninspiring; unexceptional.
“a lot of his movies are … meh”
Yes, I take it back. You guys look like geniuses typing out the sound “meh”. At this rate by the time we get to the millennial’s grandchildren they will be back to scratching out messages on the side of cave walls. I’m at least informed enough not to look like a moron typing out sounds on the internet.
Don’t worry. You look like a perfectly fine moron.
Rosario sucks. Tribe couldn’t swing McNeil instead?
Mets hope to extend him. Would be great likable super star for team. Carasco is nice piece for rotation. Mets didn’t give up anything amazing. So far only the padres pay a good price for players.
Carrasco is your second best starter at this point until Thor returns, and even then, he still might be your second best starter. He’s healthy now.
Agree. Noah has had a hard time capitalizing on his talent. Stroman is just a guy.
Better be a Dominic Smith attached to this that just hasnt been reported yet
Rosario, Gimenez, Greene, Wolf for Lindor and Carrasco finalized
Congrats Mets fans
Rosario to 2B, Jimenez to short. Plugs the hole at second for the tribe but still need OF help.
Doesn’t look like Rosario is in the deal
Nm just looked it up, I guess he is! Sad to see Rosario go for sure.
They literally gave up chump change for those two.
i wouldnt say that, but the deal does look a bit lacking from CLE’s front vs what Boston got for Mookie
Pandemic hurt trade values. Just nobody told the padres.
Now what will the Indians do with Bieber & Ramirez they won’t say REbuild but they can really get a great package for each individually which is scary if they make Ramirez available you will have lots of competition for his services. He can easily be plugged in with the Dodgers, Yankees, Boston just to name a few;
They will wait until their years of control left are around 2 2.5 maybe 1.5 and trade them.
Dodger fan happy for Mets fan
Have enjoyed the rivalry over the years and NY retooling works for me
I’m pretty surprised this is the best that Cleveland could do for both Lindor and Carrasco. Not that it’s an absolute nothing package, but Lindor is/was the best MIF seemingly available and Carrasco is probably #2 available SP behind Bauer. You could argue the fact that there are still valuable options at SP/SS that will only cost money to acquire and maybe that limited leverage to a degree, but… that’s gotta be a little be deflating for Tribe fans. Good for the Mets.
Not sure I’d call Carrasco a top starting option. He’s entering his mid-30s, has thrown exactly 200 innings in a season once and has a 3.77 career ERA. He’s probably closer to a middle/back of rotation option and shouldn’t keep Cohen from seeing another full-time starter.
Timed out before I could edit.
His FIP is slightly lower (3.42), so maybe there’s a little more optimism. He still gives up plenty of base runners with a WHIP over 1..
Wouldn’t argue with your take, Carrasco is probably better categorized as a very good arm to slot somewhere behind an ace rather than as the ace. Was more of a comment on the arms available via FA, it’s hard not to compare him favorably to the likes of Tanaka/Odorizzi.
He’s the Mets second best starter. Who would you rank ahead? Thor certainly has the capability, but he won’t be back until midseason and under restrictions.
Carrasco is regularly viewed as one of the more underrated top pitchers in the game, and your comment supports that. A quick review:
-2020–2.91 ERA/157 ERA+ Made every start. 1.6 WAR in a 60 game season, which prorates out to a 4.32 WAR over a 162 game season. That’s right on par with:
-2014-2018 — 3.27 ERA/3.01 FIP/133 ERA+. That’s over five seasons, averaging 4 WAR a season, so he was right back on track in 2020.
We’re going to give him a bit of a pass on 2019 as he was fighting life and death! He came back in top form in 2020.
He put up those pitching numbers in the DH league.
You can believe that’s a back-end, or even mid-range starter, but that’s actually a frontend starter. As I said, he’s the Mets #2 starter right now in what is a deep rotation. And I am not a Met fan. Just stating facts.
FWIW I love Carrasco (Lindor too), he’s been one of my favorite pitchers pretty much since he emerged as a consistent contributor. He isn’t quite true ace territory for me in 2021, and he is getting up there in age, but I agree that mid-back is a little harsh. Depending on the depth and options around him, he’d fit nicely in just about any rotation between 2-3 spot. to start the 2021 season.
…about the only argument against Carrasco being a front-end starter is he’s not someone who you can *guarantee* will take the ball 30 plus starts and 200 innings, but even the top starters don’t go 200 innings often now, and guess what? Carrasco is one of a handful of starters who has pitched 200 innings in a season in 2017 and 192 in 2018. Those were his two most recent seasons before the health issue, and as you said he took the ball for every start in 2020. An argument is he’s one of the more durable starters. The Mets just snagged him for the next three seasons if they opt to take his reasonable option year. A very good addition to the Mets staff.
Without full parks, 29 teams don’t want to pay as much.
Do you know anything about the Met players?
Rosario is a bit of a wildcard, but he had a 2.4 WAR at age 23. The NYMs likely brought him up to young, but he was ranked in the top-10.
The gem in the trade, imo, is Gimenez. he was a top-30 prospect, with an outstanding rookie year. And, again, the NYMs brought him up too young.
If you think he is a nothing player, then I seriously question your judgement.
Not quite sure where in translation that “not that it’s an absolute nothing package” became “Gimenez is a nothing player”, but that isn’t what I said. The Indians got some good pieces in the deal, Gimenez included. The return still feels light for both players, but not astonishingly light. I’ll probably give the Indians a C on the poll when it comes out.
Not quite sure where in translation that “not that it’s an absolute nothing package” became “Gimenez is a nothing player”, but that isn’t what I said.
————————————————————–
Perhaps you didn’t mean it that way, but that is literally exactly what you said.
If I gave someone $50 for a package, and you said it was a nothing package, then what other interpretation is there than nothing in the package is worth much. By definition, the value of each piece in the package has to be worth less than the total value of the package.
The individual pieces cannot be worth more than the total.
I can’t say I woke up today looking to get into a debat