Prior to becoming a member of the Dodgers, there were rumors that the Red Sox were “in the mix” of the Max Scherzer sweepstakes. However, it doesn’t seem as if talks got very far, according to Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo. When asked about the report that Scherzer was willing to waive his no-trade rights to join Boston’s rotation, Rizzo said, “We never got that close to a deal with the Red Sox so that was never a question that was posed to him,” according to Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com, relaying an interview with Rizzo on 106.7 The Fan.
Some other notes from DC…
- Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Nats’ last extension offer to Trea Turner was for six years, $100MM. Heyman also says that the Nats didn’t make another offer in the spring of 2021, as had been reported. This would have been fairly close to the six-year, $120MM extension Xander Bogaerts signed with the Red Sox in April of 2019. Although Bogaerts was just a year away from free agency then, whereas Turner would have been three years away in March of 2020. Betting on himself seems to have paid off for Turner so far. His salary in 2020 was $7.45MM, though that was prorated to around $2.75MM with the shortened season. This year, he’s making $13MM and will be in line for a hefty arbitration raise in 2022. He could then go into free agency as a 29-year-old, having already banked around $35MM of that $100MM.
- Juan Soto “felt something in his knee” in tonight’s game, manager Dave Martinez tells various reporters, including Bobby Blanco of MASN. After a trade deadline fire sale, Soto was the figurative last man standing, staying put and watching Scherzer and Turner walk out the door, as well as Josh Harrison, Yan Gomes, Kyle Schwarber and others. The lefty is having yet another excellent season, with a wRC+ of 144 and 3.1 fWAR. But since the team has seemingly already waved the white flag on the season with the aforementioned fire sale, they can afford to be cautious with their remaining star if any issues arise.
- Martinez also says five members of his staff that tested positive for COVID-19 have been cleared to rejoin the club, according to Gene Wang of The Washington Post. These positive tests were part of the same outbreak that sent Trea Turner and Daniel Hudson to the IL last week.
100 million is a laughable offer for Trea. He is getting 200 at minimum
It was in 2020 spring. At the time it was fine, now he is the 2nd best SS in the game. Pains me as a Nats fan.
Dante closing in at number 3.
Do you mean Bo? If so, no. Xander and Correa are both ahead of him.
Seager too
Bogaerts and Seager I would put ahead of Bo, Correa not so much
Iffy, with Seager’s injury history and defensive issues. I’d rather have Bichette.
Xander yes , Correa no.
Seager can’t play SS anymore
Correa isn’t even in the conversation.
WAR disagrees with y’all
As much as I hate to admit it, Correa is a beast. I don’t know why people tend to put Correa below the Top 4 or 5 SS; he’s right there with the rest of them. If Houston can’t sign him this offseason, I see Detroit signing him to a big deal and reuniting him with Hinch.
Correa’s issue is his health. Shockingly, his average draft position in Yahoo was 125.8. He was healthy in the short 2020 season, but in the previous three, he never exceeded 110 games.
His stats/162 games extend real well. His actually stats, because of the injuries, are a lot more pedestrian.
If you’re worried about defence you dont want bo and his 20 errors
Right, as I said below he’s not exactly a defensive wiazard
This is what’s infuriating as a Nats fan. 6 years 100 mil is nothing. Bump that up and get him to sign. We knew the type of player he was already. Just get the deal done them for more money and its a steal now
At the time they offered him this, he still had 3 years of arbitration left so this was a reasonable offer at the time. Turner has since proven his value and he was smart to bet on himself but this was not an insulting offer by any means at the time.
Bo is not exactly Ozzie smith at SS boys
You think Trea Turner, with his injury history, will get a $200M contract heading into his age-30 season? There’s no way. $150M at the most, $125M if teams are smart.
WHAT INJURY HISTORY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? How many days in his entire professional career (both minor and major league) has Trea Turner spent on the DL/IL due to non-HBP related injuries!?
Curious, this isn’t related to Turner. I just want to hear your thoughts. If a guy gets a HBP injury on multiple occasions does he have an injury history or not?
I’m going to say no because he didn’t control the HBP, especially Turner who doesn’t exactly crowd the plate
@Steve Nebraska HBP injuries are not a risk factor for future injury.
So complete ignore the question? Got it.
I just don’t buy the HBP as deserving special pleading. It is a normal part of the game and you WILL be hit by the pitch several times in your career. It will repeat and it is unavoidable. So if you get an injury every time it happens, I would be vastly worried.
A guy who pulls a hamstring running to first can be classified as injury prone. A guy who hurts himself diving or sliding, can be classified as injury prone. But a guy who gets hurt every time the ball hits him is not injury prone?
I would say a guy who runs into a wall and gets hurt is LESS injury prone than a guy getting hurt by a HPB because guys don’t run into walls full blast very often. Maybe a couple times over the course of their career. They will be hit a lot.
Injury prone typically refers to guys getting hurt on plays that don’t usually result in injuries. Meaning they are more likely to be injured. I just don’t see why a HBP would not be included in this discussion as guys will be beaned in the future.
@Steve Nebraska…
1. It sounds like your mind was made up about the issue before you even commented.
2. He doesn’t get injured EVERY time he gets hit by a pitch.
3. Getting hit directly on the hand/in the finger by a pitch is definitely something that would usually result in injury. Not a lot of skin protecting those bones.
4. It deserves special pleading because, as mentioned before, it is not a risk factor for future injury like pulling a hammy running to first is.
With next years market how many big spenders are going to be looking for a SS in 2 years. Soto is a beast. Next if not already superstar. Hope he stays healthy.
It’s gonna be dodgers extension talks
Not with so many FA infielders. Teams that would pay over $100m already have good SS.
You don’t know what you are talking about. He doesn’t have an injury history.. Maybe you are counting getting corona as an injury but I do not. If Lindor can get 341 for 10, then Trea Turner, older but a much better player, should get at least 210 for 7. I think the Nationals were thinking this also and figured it would be hard to sign him. That is why they traded him. They were smart to trade him before his last year. They got a lot more for him this way. The Orioles should have done the same with Manny. They could have gotten more if they had traded him a year earlier.
Not with so many FA infielders.
I mean, it isn’t that laughable. Acuna is a much better player and accepted a deal less than that. And from my understand, this is the first time Turner was offered an extension. $100 million is generations changing money. Although I agree, it’s too low for guys like Turner and Acuna, it wasn’t dumb if the Nats to offer it. They have other contracts to use as reasonable comps, but more important, it’s enough money where he just might say yes.
@bravesfan Notice how every single person alive thinks that Acuña’s contract was highway robbery. Just because he sold his soul for much less than it was worth doesn’t mean Trea Turner or any other player has to.
Sold his soul…dramatic much? The fact that people are upset because a player takes a lesser contract than expected shows just how stupid and petty people are.
No it doesn’t, it shows that owners are willing to undercut generational talent
Where did he say he’d have to take it?
To be fair, Scherzer and Turner didn’t necessarily ‘walk out the door’ – this makes it sound like it was their decision. In Scherzer’s case, it kinda was lowkey
It certainly was Scherzer’s decision considering he had 10 and 5 rights.
Turner, the Nats clearly weren’t going to pay what he was worth so they cashed in his last year and 2 months of club control for some potential long-term building blocks.
Not too mention the Nats went from thin at Catching prospects to having 2 top C prospects. The minor league system still needs some attention but signing this years draft picks and picking in the top half next year will go a long way towards addressing that issue.
I look forward to seeing Ruiz in Action some time soon.
I’m completely SHOCKED that the talk of the Red Sox getting Max was, essentially, made up (by the Red Sox of course). Probably wouldn’t give up Bobby Dalback for him…..
Chaim’s should realize at this point that BS just doesn’t sell that well in Boston…too may eyes and ears.
Bloom admitted that payroll was a factor in their reluctance to improve the starting rotation. And right now the Sox rotation is so pitiful, with 4 of the starting pitchers having ERA’s rounding out to 5, that even a dominant Sale won’t stop the freefall in the standings. The Sox basically punted the season despite having one of the best records in baseball not too long ago. Inexcusable, and it’s most likely not a coincidence the losing streak started right around the trade deadline.
I really think FSG’s financial situation with Liverpool is negatively impacting Henry’s willingness to spend.
You mean the Liverpool team making them boatloads of money from a Champions league loss, a Champions League win, and an EPL trophy in the last 3 years? The one that is also a completely separate asset from the Red Sox?
I do think the owners have a mandate to operate below the tax for the time being, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Liverpool.
espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/43715…
Pre-tax loss of $64M (US) for the year ending May 2020. Surely will be worse for the year ending May 2021. That’s what happens when you have payroll and other operating expenses, and no ticket revenue because of no fans, not to mention TV broadcast rebates.
And also Liverpool’s debt more than doubled, from £129m in 2019 to £268m.
You think an owner of multiple assets will continue spending on one while the other is suffering massive losses with drastically increasing debt?
Like every entity, FSG has consolidated financials. Their consolidated P&L and Balance Sheet most definitely impacts all of their assets, not just the loser of the bunch.
Look up Bernie Madoff and see how his handling of the Mets’ owners other assets impacted the team.
Since the books are not easily accessed lets just say the Red Sox gross profits have been reported publicly and using standard business extrapolations based on the depreciation of the facility upgrades the Boston Red Sox are making more money than most.
Unlike the past 20 years when they re-invested that money to make more money, they’ve gone conservative and increased their profits and decreased their product but not the prices to the fans. It’s a very miserly approach to the game.
Many teams historically have had miserly owners and not done well. I’d like to know why the sudden change in mid summer 2019. They intentionally drained the bathtub and watched DD, Mookie, Price and so many others swirl down the drain. They didn’t cut prices to help the fans deal with their actions, they sold us some clown from TB and his proven austerity approach to baseball.
NEWSFLASH – It’s not working!!!
Spending money on Schwarber but not Rizzo was a huge mistake. Spending money on Kiki and not Semien was another huge mistake. Giving away Mookie was another huge mistake. The team wasn’t going to contend as long as Sale was hurt and Sale got hurt after Cora changed his wind-up so it’s one mistake after another that has destroyed the legacy of the last 20 years.
Are the Red Sox owners hurting for money? NO. Think about the hundreds of millions of PROFITS they made the last 20 years. Think about how much the valuation of the company has risen. Poverty isn’t something they can claim so not exceeding the cap to win when you have been lucky for 2/3rds of season is unforgivable But I’m sure most will forgive them and count their blessings after waiting 86 years. I’m not one of them. They should sell the team or re-engage as real owners who believe in their fans and want to improve their product. Bloom hopes to improve the product with his obscure acquisitions that might come to fruition someday. That’s a TB philosophy not a Boston philosophy.
Deep pockets should lead to talent acquisition. The only real significant add has been Schwarber and he can’t play defense and they already have one guy who is the worst in baseball on defense so getting another slug defender was not what the team needed.
It’s hard for me to believe Bloom had any input into the choices in TB when he was there. TB continues to make excellent choices without him and Boston keeps sifting through other team’s trash in hopes of finding gold. Heck, Friedman even seeded the river with fake gold when he told Bloom Downs and Wong were excellent prospects. Downs was pushed to AAA prematurely and has failed miserably there. He can have 10 years of control and nobody should care. If the player doesn’t make your starting line-up on your major league team, he provides no value. So far, Mookies big year in LA far outweighs what Boston got back.
Why? Because Verdugo can’t contribute to a winning team since the team is so grossly depleted of talent. So five years of an above average guy versus one year of a guy that leads his team to a ring is a VERY VERY lopsided trade. Friedman pantsed Bloom on the Mookie deal. It’s embarrassing. Both the talent level went down and the available money for payroll for 3 years went down.
Next year will bring even more heart break as guys having career years will regress to the mean and the hitting should fall off like in 2019. Good thing a healthy Sale and Houck will be there. If 2022 is another fourth place finish I hope Bloom will be sent packing and find a job with a small market team where he belongs. He might actually excel in that environment!
The Red Sox were not one Mookie away from a title, and he was an upcoming free agent. They of course could afford to sign him, but
long term FA contracts almost never work out. So they traded Mookie to a team that had the talent to win the World Series for a controllable contact hitter who’s proved he can hit MLB pitching, a top 100 prospect coming off a 20-20 year, and a backup catcher with serious pop. Betts posted a 3.6 rWAR in the shortened season and was worth 3.5% of a World Series win added by his postseason hitting performance, not to mention the highlight reel catches. Price opted out of 2020 and returned in the bullpen where he was worth 0.5 rWAR so far this year. Verdure thus far has been worth 3.5 WAR, about the same as Betts, but he has more years on his contract and Betts has finished his and signed an extension. Most likely, the WAR of Price and Betts will be less than Verdugo’s by the time all finish their original contracts. This says nothing about the prospects. Wong is the team’s third catcher and has produced 0.2 WAR in but 12 AB, and Downs might fall on the top 100 but still has a legit chance to reach MLB regardless.
This all ignores the money aspect. Mookie and Prcie would have made 59 million in 2020 and still 32 in 2021 w/o a Mookie extension. A big market team, or any team for that matter, has absolutely no excuse to not spend, but they can spend money in a different way, more spread out, like Boston is doing.
I call this deal a win-win.
@KD17: I wish I could disagree with anything you said. I can’t. More’s the pity.
Look, no one doubts, because they’re so reversely integrated, that they suffered probably more than most MLB teams; maybe even most. But what Bloom (and I doubt he makes any real decisions) is doing is sacrificing the “brand” for short term profits. The real issue is that the Sox are boring; NESN ratings are in the toilet, WEEI leads off all their segments with Patriot’s news, and I’ll to my grave actually have heard Dave O’Brien and Jerry Remy (get well Jerry) actually having to huckster tickets for a weekend series against the Yankees. A weekend series…against the Evil Empire. I almost fell off my couch.
They can’t pitch, they can’t field, they can’t run. There’s too much offensive talent for them to be truly terrible, but that’s about it. I said at the beginning of the season that I couldn’t write them off entirely, because of their bats. But in a close race, bats just aren’t enough.
.500 is frankly a lofty goal. And Red Sox Nation will be watching Bruin exhibition games in September.
@ bobtillman;
What you guys are going through is what Dodger fans went through in LA in 2004, when the Boston parking lot owner that bought the Dodgers didn’t have the money to run the team. So he read Moneyball, and brought in Paul DePodesta to be GM – Billy Beane’s right hand man and statistical expert.
Fans were initially excited, as the Dodgers had dwindled to also-rans. DePodesta turned over the team with guys that graded out good on stats. By mid-season fans were disgruntled. After the season they demanded he be fired. A month to the next season the corporate and individual season ticket holders were threatening to cancel. It wasn’t that there weren’t winning…..
We had some relatives from Atlanta that came out to visit. They wanted to see Dodger Stadium so we went. It was unbearable to sit through. Foul balls galore were being hit as we waited for a ball to be put in play. The Dodger fielders were told where to stand on D and that just stood there. There were only 2 fielders I saw that looked like they were into the game and wanted the ball to be hit to them – SS Cesar Izturis and 2B Alex Cora. The other guys were day dreaming….maybe about their next AB…..who knows.
The above was quite a change for those of us that had watched Lasorda’s Dodgers of Cey, Russell, Lopes, Garvey, Baker, Jay Johnstone, Monday, Scioscia, Yeager, etc. Those guys wanted to win, played hard, and knew how to win.
I’d guess after watching money players like Youkilis, Pedroia, Ortiz and others that busted it each game that you’re now experiencing the methods of the stat crowd that never played the game, learned the game, and claim that “there’ s no such thing as clutch”.
I have mixed feelings about the stat guys in 2021. I love the Rays, and guys like Brandon Lowe, (especially) Joey Wendle, Brett Phillips, and others. They constantly bust it trying to do what they can to get the Rays to win each game they’re in (and Ji-Man Choi is vastly underrated as both a big bat and a clutch hitter – team missed him badly when he was out earlier this year.)
The Sox are winning. There’s that. I’ve watched some of their games this year, and I agree that it’s not very smooth yet. But I followed Cora throughout his playing career. High Baseball IQ. Always thought he would make a good manager (same as I felt about Craig Counsell). Maybe those young guys will pick it up in a year or two.
P.S.
I also think the political correctness of the Red Sox is hurting with the fans…..
The canning of Don Orsillo when he and Jerry Remy were doing the most fun games for fans to listen to, then replacing him with the homogenized Dave O’Brien was bad. That was followed up with ownership using the Red Sox brand to promote derisive political involvement. Fans that just wanted to watch baseball had to be more then just turned off. Being loyal to a sports franchise for generations is one thing. Being told what is acceptable to think, act, and say is going too far. Customer’s don’t frequent establishments that insult them and and treat them like some sort of criminals for the way they lead their lives…….and I can assure you that the Boston media will never bring that up.
What were the Red Sox politics? I’m not from Boston, so I don’t see the papers, but I don’t recall any politics associated with the RS.
DodgersWorldChamps20203 hours ago
The Red Sox were not one Mookie away from a title, and he was an upcoming free agent.
I call this deal a win-win.
===========================================
Too many folks don’t look at this logically. We played .400 last year. Every FA in the world was not going to make us WS champions. Great payer, but he wasn’t staying.
The idea of not cashing in your chips, much like the Nats, and the Cubs just did, makes no sense.
Feel better now Sammy?
JB – Lets talk about looking at things logically.
Last year the Red Sox were missing their #1 SP, #2 SP and were gutted in January by an inept ownership and Bloom. Logically, teams don’t fair well when their ACE is having TJ surgery. Losing Sale is like losing DeGrom, Cole, Kershaw a few years ago, Bieber etc. The hit to the team is at least one year and all activities during that off-year should be directed toward the return of the ACE.
2019 was a regression year after a season filled with career years. Add a horrible manager who screwed up spring training and you have a disaster. Add key injuries to SPs and the disaster grows. Did the talent deplete? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Contrary to the Dodger fan’s opinion the Red Sox had more talent than LAD in 2019, but there were injuries that impacted the starting line-up. Injuries heal.
You constantly chirp about Mookie wasn’t staying. You don’t know the facts it’s your opinion. My opinion is that DD would have offered him a fair market long-term contract and worked through the racism issues to both Mookie and Price’s satisfaction. That’s why he was fired.
So does that justify Bloom taking a premature horrendous deal with his mentor? NO. Did NATS cashed in their chips in January? NOPE they cashed them in when EVERYONE knows the value is highest – AT THE DEADLINE. Bloom screwed up. Didn’t follow normal logic and moved Mookie and Price at the wrong time for the wrong talent.
In 2020 during a COVID season either the core team needed to stay for a more viable 2021 with Sale back OR Betts and others should have been moved at the deadline to maximize available cash and add young viable starting pitching.
You and Dodger boy can spin reality as you see fit but the Mookie deal will be an embarrassment to the organization 100 years from now just like the Ruth deal. Bloom will be the buffoon people look up to laugh at in trivia contests. Hopefully in 100 years racism will be eliminated or at least diminished and the owners will be looked at retrospectively as the problem that needed to be eliminated from baseball.
Funny stuff.. fans of any eam always make up rumors, but why Boston ever would have given up decent prospects and gone over lux tax for something they have coming back in 1 week (Sale) and another kid in Houck, whom they have been managing innings with since his injury by only having him start about every other week is crazy. Every team in contention would love to have a bona fide ace acquisition, boston has that after his last rehab start (FO already announced) and kid pitcher whom nobody has figured out in Houck yet.
Wave goodbye to garret richards and maybe half of martin perez starts. Save the prospects and 2 top starters from within, then NYY fans don’t realize that, tho they should after a Houck has shut them down 2 times already..
johnsilver – I agree with nearly everything you wrote. The Red Sox had a nice stash coming after the deadline. I think that could have improved things but since others did so much starting from a better position , the team would still lack the talent to make the wildcard spots. They lost Mookie and Price and haven’t replaced the talent. Yes, Verdugo is better than expected but he’s not elite like Mookie. In 2018 Price was a highly productive asset and no pitcher has successfully replaced his value to the team so the team is short on talent and should not be thinking ring. They should be thinking talent acquisition and spending money.
Best case, a second wild card was going to be a possibility if nobody got hurt like the first 108 games, none of the star hitters slumped badly and the suspect “other pitchers” performed surprisingly well like they did for 108 games.
You do realize the Red Sox profit from putting a team on the field. In fact, they make hundreds of millions of dollars and their franchise value escalates yearly. Spending money at the deadline to fill long-term holes in the team makes perfect sense. The idea that the farm system will be stripped is something some idiot sold to fans and keeps trying to reinforce it with invalid farm system rankings.
Farm players have two values to an organization:
1 – they graduate and add value to the major league team like Betts, Bogey, JBJ, Benny, Devers, Chavis, Dalbec, Duran, Houck etc.
2 – they are used to procure assets needed to win.
That’s it. Stockpiling minor league players doesn’t win championships. Basing your farm value on the two purposes above rather than some bogus ranking creates rings. Boston and DD proved that in 2018.
So getting more talent at the deadline whether it cost money or minor league players to win a championship or set oneself up to be a perennial threat is a good thing. Getting Scherzer and then re-signing him for a couple of years would have been a good thing regardless of the money. His merchandising impact would more than cover the luxury tax!!
That’s why giving up Mookie is unforgivable for a big market team. Whatever shenanigans happened to make the ownership group think the organization or their pocket books would have been better off without Mookie is simply wrong. Boston would have had off years when Sale was hurt but the core team in 2021 and 2022 would have been comparable with any team in baseball. Add Scherzer and they are better than the rest. The money is irrelevant because the profits are so prolific and they grow with winning.
bobtillman
the talk of the Red Sox getting Max was, essentially, made up (by the Red Sox
===============================================
Interesting, I hadn’t heard that. Could you kindly post a link to an article on that?
Only 6/$100m for Turner? That’s insulting!
Yeah. I would’ve thrown another 4 years into that with 150M and hope he’d accept. 10/250 at the age of 26, there’s nothing that would indicate he wouldn’t produce as you continue to have him through his prime years.
Can nobody read? The offer was made prior to the 2020 season and would have covered three Arb years and only three free agent years.
At which point he would be 32 and the Nats would have zero interest in overpaying for his decline years.
Yeah…thus $25M per for 10 years as opposed to something over $30 and close to $40. Tatis got/did the same.
Sox only Major League ready pitching prospect is Tanner Houck and honestly 2 months of Scherzer is not worth six years of Houck
2 months of Scherzer and a 3-year contract extension would have certainly been worth giving up Houck.
When was the last time the Red Sox developed a legit longterm starting pitcher?
An extension for a future HOF Boras client who is 2 months out from free agency is basically going to be market value – not the type of thing that would justify giving up Tanner Houck.
Bruce Hurst
Houck is legit.
a 3-year contract extension
=========================
That’s a separate issue. We can always sign him to a 3-year contract in the winter.
Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz
Part of the deal with Mad Max waiving his no trade clause was that he would be traded to a team that would sign him to an extension long term. So your premise of losing out on six years of Houck would be balanced more against the long term payroll Max would receive and if he should Nolan Ryan type longevity. As it stands I se 3-5 years with the Dodgers who will probably flip him after the next two or 3 seasons, should Max permit the next trade.
Boras already said that an extension wasn’t something Max wanted as a result of being traded. And seriously, people need to stop pushing this narrative. Max Scherzer is exactly the type of player who should want to go to the open market.
Oh, and 99% chance Max Scherzer’s next contract, wherever it may be, comes with a full NTC.
It’s funny Schwarber was nontendered by the Cubs… imagine they didn’t Bryant be a giant
Wow that’s a typo… Would Bryant be a giant in this realm (or any other of the tradees for that matter?
Did they trade Soto’s knee ligaments and not tell him?
I’m happy Boston didn’t trade for Scherzer. Yes he is good. Yes he would help. But I don’t think he alone makes the Red Sox a WS team. They are good and have help on the way. Let things play out at this point and maybe they get hot. The future is bright in Boston, don’t Dombrowski it away. Believe in Chaim.
Bloom sucks. No reason to believe in the guy. He’s in a 10 foot pond and can’t swim. The guy adds no value. If a set of GM coins were minted it would take at least 10 Blooms to equal a DD coin.