TODAY: After throwing a bullpen session, the Angels now believe the Ohtani is well enough to start this Sunday’s ballgame against Oakland, per MLB.com’s Rhett Bollinger (via Twitter).
Sept. 16: Shohei Ohtani won’t pitch during the Angels’ three-game series with the Athletics, though the two-way star had been tentatively slated to start tomorrow’s series opener. Angels manager Joe Maddon told MLB.com’s Ryan Herrera and other reporters that Ohtani came away with a sore arm after a game of catch on Wednesday, so the team will keep him from pitching so his condition can be further monitored. Ohtani will continue to regularly serve as the Angels’ DH, though it is possible Ohtani may have pitched his last game of 2021.
While the situation “hasn’t gotten there yet” in terms of shutting Ohtani down as a pitcher, Maddon said “we just have to wait and see” if Ohtani could take the hill for the 22nd time this season.
“He’ll continue to do his thing and be playing catch, and then we’ll determine if he feels good enough to [pitch] again,” Maddon said. “So I don’t know. I think he can, but we’ve been caught in these circumstances a lot this year.”
There isn’t much left for the Angels to play for this season, so it wouldn’t make much sense for the team to take a risk with Ohtani during what has already been an injury-riddled campaign for the Halos. Losing Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon for the majority of the season spelled doom for a club that needed all the offensive help it could get considering the Angels’ pitching and defensive struggles.
The one big bright spot has been Ohtani’s season for the ages. Combining excellent pitching with elite offense, Ohtani has a 3.36 ERA and 28.8% strikeout rate over 115 1/3 innings on the mound this year, and a .254/.336/.599 slash line and 44 home runs over 564 plate appearances. This incredible performance has evoked comparisons to Babe Ruth, turned Ohtani into a household name, and made him the presumptive frontrunner for the AL MVP Award.
Quite a bit of Ohtani’s production, however, came in the first half of the season. Ohtani has hit only .191/.331/.376 with seven home runs over his last 172 PA, and his most recent pitching outing (on September 10) saw him allow six runs over 3 1/3 innings of work against the Astros. Some decline was probably inevitable given Ohtani’s meteoric start, and his unique workload in staying prepared to both pitch and regularly hit against Major League competition.
Ohtani also pitched only 1 2/3 innings total in 2019-20 due to injuries, including a recovery from Tommy John surgery. That said, whatever wear and tear Ohtani might be feeling has seemingly impacted his bat more than his arm. Apart from that one mediocre start against the Astros, Ohtani has otherwise posted a 2.20 ERA over 45 innings since the All-Star break.
Shut him down.
He’s got the AL MVP in my eyes.
Let him focus on hitting and save his arm for next year.
Yep. Easy call.
Why would he get the MVP THIS year when clearly a better choice has emerged. If Ohtani is pitching well and hitting well NEXT year, give it to him then. No need to waste the MVP on him now. Looking backward, i get it, his performance is historic. But if you look forward, he may be more deserving of the MVP in the future.
bucs – He can win it more than once so I don’t understand your logic. He has earned it this year.
I guess if you only consider a half of a season the criteria for an MVP he might have a shot, but he does not deserve it for this whole season. Next year Trout will be back and be the front runner again, 3 MVP awards and 4 runner up. Notani doesn’t even come close.
Everyone seems to be losing sight of the fact the guy is tied for 86th in mlb and has only pitched 115 innings?
He’s got 176 strikeouts… AS A HITTER. (136 as a pitcher for the record.)
I think he’s hyped because they want to hype him, but really, he’s not the cream of the crop as either a hitter or as a pitcher.
He’s the elcamino of mlb. Not the best truck, not the best car, but can accomplish either job with some success. Doesnt make him a motortrend car of the year
He’s a bucs fan.. always looking towards the future..
86 in mlb what? Also , you might want to keep in mind it is not MLB MVP. Just AL , He has a WAR that is # 1 in baseball. That is why he will win MVP. If someone like Vlad Jr. or Semien passes him up then you might see more votes going there way.
The MVP is not awarded based on projections.
Future success for has absolutely nothing to do with the MVP in 2021. He’s doing something nobody has done in like a century. If Vlad wins the triple crown he won’t be the first guy not to win the mvp. Not to mention batting average or rbis aren’t significant to any of their current gms and haven’t been for at least a decade.
“Not to mention batting average or rbis aren’t significant to any of their current gms and haven’t been for at least a decade.”
Maybe not to a bad GM, but I fail to see why these stats would be completely disregarded. You can’t OBP your way to a title, as many teams such as the A’s have demonstrated.
Cal — who said anything about a “title”? This is an individual award. Team success is a non-factor.
Caletines ask gms to rank stats in order of importance. You won’t find average or RBI’s on there. You dinosaurs have lost the argument a long time ago. Now Ivy League gms populate the league because they know how to use advance analytics and ignore the old timey ones that don’t matter.
The A’s haven’t been successful in the playoffs because the playoffs are a complete crapshoot. To dumb it down for you. They’ve lost a bunch of coin flips.
Vlad is one of the few people in baseball I have ever been kinda jealous of……
And you WILL notice with all the newfangled GMs, still wet behind the ears….baseball appears to be err… “Having issues”.
In other words, a bunch of punks who don’t know squat but have the Ivy league degrees to intimidate jocks with and mesmerize owners…..
Give a team to an old school, simple fan like me and you will have a winning team soon enough…without all the bullcrap……
Those punks are ruining baseball with their arrogance and pampered salaries….. Spoiled rotten silver spoon fed arrogant punks who along with Borass…..
CAUSED HOTDOGS TO COST $7-12 dollars!
AND YOU CAN’T SEE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT?????
If a kid want to skip school and go.see a ballgame, they can’t just collect some cans on the weekend…to afford it, they have to commit bank robbery or credit card fraud…..
THEY ARE RUINING AMERICA AND AMERICA’S GAME!
That’s is…if a kid wants to…. and they, the new fangled GMs, are ruining America….
( With assistance from those dang Chinese and their discount spell checker programs……)
Player of the year is an individual award. MVP is the player who has been most valuable to their team. Not a lot of value provided when a team comes in 4th. They could have done that w/o him. He is deserving of Fantasy player of the Year tho. MVP is reliant on team success, and the times someone on a last place team has won it, it has been controversial.
RnR give a fan like you a team and it would be successful but not how you think. You’re team would be sooooo bad for like 3-4 years while spending over the luxury tax that the next guys job would be sooooo easy drafting first like 4 consecutive years that it would probably be a dynasty in about 5 years after you leave. Maybe not though fans and old dinosaurs like yourself tend to pay old bums like 7 year contracts till their 41 because they have a 100 rbis batting behind great OBP legends.
So maybe it would take 8 years for a great Ivy League gm to bring back a rotten franchise you destroyed.
Yeah nobody is really following this logic. Sorry but Vlad is not the mvp. He deserves a silver slugger but fortunately a lot more is taken into consideration when it comes to the most valuable player. Ohtani has been a better player for 90% of the season with the exception of the past two weeks. He’s hit 40+ hrs, stolen 25 bases, and has been one of the top 5-6 pitchers in the AL. With the exception of maybe 2001 Bonds and Williams batting 400, it’s the greatest season of baseball We’ve seen in 100 years.
Just because something is rare doesn’t make it more valuable.
If Trout is healthy all year, Ohtani isn’t even the most valuable player on his team let alone in the entire league.
I’m a huge fan and he’s a must watch, but I think we are over blowing his value because we just haven’t seen it ever.
David Fletcher is more-valuable than Trout.
Fletcher is the guy we should be locking up for years.
@dustys
ERA/FIP under 3.50 and 44 HR with a 155 OPS+
Minus points for durability but I think that’s plenty of value to win the MVP.
Even Pedro and Maddux didn’t slug over 40 home runs, in a career.
Yep exactly
he needs to show more obp and stolen bases.
“Ohtani has been a better player for 90% of the season with the exception of the past two weeks.”
You must have missed his 2nd half stats.
“If.”
Ohtani is essentially two very very good players in one. It happened. MVP.
We already did
Crypto – why would you “minus points for durability”?
Ohtani has played in all but 7 games this season.
22 starts is 2/3 of a season.
Cryptonerd, this year and last year are unique as it pertains to pitchers workloads, but how many SP made 33 starts at any point in 2017-2019? Are you suggesting thats the normal workload for a SP? I think I may have missed your point.
Crypto – That’s not a fair comparison. He’s missed only two or three starts the entire year. due to tiredness or injury. The Angels employ a six man rotation. That’s structural and not an indication whatsoever of his durability. Plus the fact that when he’s not pitching he’s hitting.
And using your criteria of 33 starts, It looks like 1 or 2 guys in all of the MLB will hit your mark.
I don’t see Ohtani winning 20 games either
@hossmandu
The Angels are.only using a 6 man rotation because of Ohtani. Not quite fair to now use it as the reason he’s not getting more starts.
“and has been one of the top 5-6 pitchers in the AL” …based on what measure?
clearly?
shohei is a damn good pitcher, and one of the top hitters.
Vladdy is elite, but he should be an easy choice for silver slugger.
Respecfully, Shohei the “clear” winner as of now. If Vlad goes bonkers the rest of the way and Shohei starts to really dive with his hitting, then you can make more of an argument. They likely did this move because A) they are not in contention B) this is good for him to focus on hitting only the rest of the way
Start to really dive? Have you seen his numbers the last month?
Have you seen Benentendi’s numbers the last two weeks? That guy has it locked up!
Vlad’s August wasn’t that good either. Ohtani will figure it out soon. That’s how slumps go
Ohtani has an OPS under 800 since the all star break and hovering around 650 the last month.
No longer a small sample size. Teams either found some holes or are content on let him only see junk, either way it’s a hit to his MVP season if he doesn’t have a productive next few weeks. He’s let Vlad back in the race
He beats Vlad in every team value you stat. I think youre confusing MVP with “player that makes your pants tight”
Not really. If that were the case I would be chanting Robbie Ray for MVP
@dusty who does Ohtani have on his team to protect him in order? I can name 3 players on blue jays that are better than anything ohtani has.
There is no statistical case to lineup protection.
Vlad is a better hitter. If Ohtani gets the MVP it will because of the added feature not because he is a better hitter.
Sure thing skip, that’s why teams add better players to strength lineup for no reason at all. If trout or rendon were in order ohtani would have much better stats (men on base with ohtani up is much better than base cleared and a solo shot) . A one dimensional hitter who’s a horrible defender so much that he was moved to first base is plenty evidence to disprove your ignorance. Ohtani pitches and hits at a high level he will easily win mvp.
They add better players to score more runs, do they not teach angel fans that?
I love how you make a comment, stats prove you wrong but somehow you just slip on by that and move on to another completely wrong statement. Good stuff man, keep at it
He who insults has a weak argument.
I do feel sorry for Ohtani and Trout. Have great seasons and never get a look at the post season.
Talksomesense, I feel bad for deGrom. The Mets are wasting his best years.
Vlad’s entire lineup is legit… shohei hasn’t seen anything consistently juicy for months.
lol……”added feature”……..you mean pitching? Vlad is welcome to try it if it wishes.
But… that’s part of his performance. So that’s why he wins. It’s not a knock that he wins due to the added feature of pitching. That’s the player Ohtani is. Vladdy is a better hitter but he hasn’t produced markedly better numbers THIS year, and also doesn’t have a great 115 innings on the mound. I like Vlad a lot and he’s awesome to watch, but he’s gotta set those mvp sights on a future season, and rightfull so
Dustylambchops with the tko early in the first round. Love these ignorant fans who think lineup protection is a thing.
Toronto has plenty of hitting, and Vlad has been a.great part of that, but Robbie Ray has been more valuable to Toronto and wouldn’t be contending without him.
This has to be a top 10 low integrity post. Love it!
Vlad can hit but Shohei put up 22 starts of All-Star level pitching.
He’s good enough for consideration as a pitcher and a hitter.
No one has been that good since Babe Ruth.
If value is what the award is for, I think Ohtani clearly provides the most.
No other player comes close in providing pitching and hitting value.
I don’t get this stance at all.
Look I’m a huge fan I think what he’s done is amazing and deserves all the praise.
But in terms of pure value, he’s not playing defensive innings, which means that other AL players who play a premium position well, could be just as valuable, if not more.
He’s clearly more valuable than other SP but not necessarily players who provide defensive value. He’s probably MVP this year only because of mike trouts calf
If a player is exceptional in defense than yes but we’re comparing him to Vladdy jr.
He plays defense while he pitches too.
I’m not even an Angels fan
Pitching is defensive innings. 115 innings this year where he is involved in every play. What is a more “premium” defensive position than the player on the bump?
What is wrong with you? Are you blind? No ball player over the last 80+ years has had a better year. Hitting on a team with a bunch of back ups and AAA players with little or no support He is routinely being pitched around and you think he is running second in the MVP race? Oh did you know that he hits 100 miles an hour with his fastball ? He is 9 and 2 with an era 3.36 on a team with one of the worse bullpens in the majors! Your favorite should wait till next year. Maybe over the off season your guy can learn how to pitch HA..
No ballplayer in 80 years has had a better season?!? What are you on, and will you share.
MAYBE if Ohtani had continued his first half pace that would be a realistic thing to say, but even then you are discounting some truly amazing seasons, several not that long ago with Bonds.
Most Valuable Player. Yes Vlad had had a phenomenal year, but when Trout and Rendon (and Upton) went down, the dude has carried this team on both ends. Without him they’d be the Orioles. Ohtani is the epitome of “MVP”.
LOL cmon man he’s amazing but if you think he’s been worth 25 wins ( the difference between the Angels and O’s record) you’re absolute nuts.
It’s a metaphor. No, I don’t think Ohtani had a 25 WAR this season. The point is the team is not that good without him. Some would say Robbie Ray is just as much of an MVP to the Jays as Vlad (given his value to the rotation).
So because he could win it another year he didn’t earn it this year? Eesh
That’s dumb.
Vlad Jr should be the AL MVP. I don’t believe pitching should count for MVP. There is a award for that call CY Young. I’ve never heard of a batter getting a CY young for hitting. Vlad is clearly having a better year with the bat so he deserves the MVP.
Fred = they have an award for batting too called the silver slugger. The MVP is a player performance award with no distinction of a certain skill.
Silver slugger is for the best hitter at each position, they even choose a silver slugger for best hitting pitcher. Ohtani has 175 strikeouts as a hitter. I’ve never liked pitchers in the consideration for MVP. The have their own award (Cy Young). That’s what happens when you’ve been a MLB fan over 30 years. I understand Ohtani is a exciting 2 way player and I have no problems with the young man. As a Braves fan and a long term baseball fan I would vote for Vlad Jr if I actually had a vote. Ohtani is worthy of a silver slugger but Vlad Jr is the AL MVP.
Well got down sat on a bench. This team has something seriously wrong with it. Too many injuries and misdiagnosed ones to just be bad luck.
every tea. has pitching injuries. with abbreated last season and short spring training it is crazy some still have arms attached
I dont know, I’m a pretty big homer but it’s every single year. At some point it isnt random, its systemic. Whether thats not knowing when to rest a guy so injuries dont compound or misdiagnosing problems, there is a real issue going on. Maybe its the players they go after, maybe its coaching, maybe its medical, I dont know. But this team needs some kind of overhaul I dont think Arte has in him. That sucks. We need trout and ohtani to be in the postseason.
That sucks. Thots and players.
MVP. unanimous imo
Ya no kidding…Abner Doubleday and I went to high school together, and the guy is the most incredible I’ve ever see….so good we don’t realize HOW good.
And, to boot, he’s a great interview.
There goes the MvP/s
Might as well let him rest his arm for next season. It’s not like the Angels will be playing any must win games.
If you don’t vote Ohtani for MVP, I’m not sure why you’re voting.
Shame – he’s having a historic season, obviously. The guy has been amazing in every aspect. Hopefully, this is not indicative of a more prominent underlying problem.
As for MVP, I think he’s the one to beat, and I was not an Ohtani fan (I didn’t think he could accomplish what he did this year and admittedly believed his arm would not hold up). BUT, don’t count Vlad Jr out. If he captures the triple crown (unlikely, but possible), it will be close. Nobody is even near their category however.
Hey Clipper. How are things? I think Ohtani has the MVP. The only argument we hear every year is whether or not the team’s success should be considered. It’s an individual payer award so I say no.
Hey Prov! I hope you are well, my friend. As I humbly admitted, I didn’t think Ohtani could do what he has done – I don’t think anyone can top him this year (even IF Vlad wins the triple crown).
You’re correct, sir, IMO, that it is certainly an individual award. Team success is reflected in the team awards, postseason MVP (team has to get there), and WS MVP, therefore would not apply for the regular season MVP. Winner will be Ohtani imho.
Also I consider Trout in that argument. Are we never going to acknowledge he is the most valuable player in any given season because the team isn’t performing well? No, of course not. He’s the best player of this generation and will be one of the best of all time when his career is done.
Ohtani is not hitting lately and it looks like he is not pitching anymore + vlady is hot and Toronto fighting for a playoff spot, I would say there is no unanimous MVP.
I agree if Vladdy stays this hot and the Jays make the playoffs, he will have a better shot.
I’ve never liked the MVP going to a team that doesn’t play any meaningful games after the all star game.
The MVP is an individual player performance award. His team’s success is irrelevant.
Quite aware but many voters don’t feel the same way, and for good reason.
Josh Donaldson vs mike trout a few years ago was a good example of that. trout was easily the more valuable player overall that year, but JD lead his team to the playoffs and Angels didn’t really challenge.
No one is saying it’s easier to perform better on a poor team, but good performances in stressful games and races are definitely more memorable.
Yeah that debate happens every year. Considering Trout has won three times, I think most of the voters tend to agree with my take on the award. Hopefull that continues this year for Ohtani.
2019 bregman should have won
2016 there was no even close to trout
2014 they made the playoff
So not really sure if you can safely say that voters tend to agree with you.
We hear the debate every year. If team success was a prerequisite, Trout would have just one. I’m not saying it’s a hard and fast adherence to my opinion by the voters, but I think they tend to lean towards it being a player award regardless of team success. That’s just my assessment. I respect yours.
Yep, it is MVP, not MVT. Vlad clearly has a better team. Ohtani is the better player. Lead the team in HRs, SLG%, OB%, OPS, SBs, As a pitcher, he leads team in ERA, Wins, and SOs.
Nothing is stopping Vlad from pitching. If Vlad pitched a few games, even he would agree Shohei is the MVP and it is not even close.
There’s many ways to be valuable on a baseball field, the top 3 however are batting, fielding and pitching.
Ohtani does 2 out of 3, maybe the most important 2 and a rare combo of the 2, but still just 2.
@Dusty Vlad just does one. There are a lot of players that are good at hitting and defense. Those players are not in the same category as Ohtani, who can hit 450ft hrs, pitch 100mph and run 30ft/sec.
I’m glad you enjoy him so much, hope you watch Vlad in October when Ohtani is running 30ft/sec to the fridge
Dusty
Comment of the night.
@Dusty Vlad will enjoy watching Ohtani run 30ft/sec to hoist his MVP trophy while Vlad gets eliminated from the playoffs during wildcard. What do you get for getting eliminated from the playoffs again?
Jealous? Once again the angels are on the outside looking in, year after year rinse and repeat.
I’m guessing MVT is Teammate?
You’re on the right path, but headed the wrong way.
It would be more apt to say that the award is MVP and not MOP (Outstanding).
ShoTime is having an historic season, no question. But the question of what “value” he’s providing to a sub-.500 team remains.
Without him, do they finish in the Minors?
If, however, you are key to propelling your team through a playoff drive, then your value is obvious. No playoff squad does it on the shoulders of any single player,so to stand out as “The” guy on a postseason-caliber team isn’t as easy as being the centerpiece of a team in the midst of a lost season.
The very idea that we are seeing what we are seeing from Ohtani, and there is still someone else even in the MVP conversation is extremely telling.
Consider that if Ohtani was rewriting history for a stacked Angels team with a clear path to the postseason this conversation wouldn’t be happening. It would be ‘great season by a great player on a great team’ … case closed.
Similarly, *if* Vlad were to claim a Triple Crown, then it becomes historic season vs historic season, with one of them occurring in the midst if a pressurized stretch run. Guerrero then should be the clear winner.
If, however, Vlad falls short, then we will see whether the voters are more concerned with performance or value.
For me, I will always think that being at your best with a season on the line is more *valuable* than being at your best when it doesn’t truly matter.
I don’t think an MVP caliber player should be overlooked for the award because the players around him stink.
@Starscream I meant it is MVP, most valuable player, not MVT, most valuable team. Shohei has made the greatest impact to MLB this year. He is doing something that no one else can do. The MVP should go to the best player. Just because he doesnt have the team around him to make the playoffs should not take away from his individual accomplishments. I was not excited about the Angel’s outlook this year, but Shohei has kept me interested the entire way.
At the end of the day, only one team gets a trophy that matters. Does it matter if they go to the playoffs and get knocked out? Do they get a participation trophy?
Vlad is having a pretty good season, but I accustomed to much better numbers year in and year out from my guy in CF. Vlad is not doing anything special. Shohei is.
So because your favorite player has a better owner, he’s the mvp? Stupid stupid logic and you spent a long freakin time telling us you’re biased. Thanks
who TF cares about the triple crown but doesn’t care a guy has a 3.30 era and 43 bombs?? Trying for the triple crown meant nothing for Kemp. It doesn’t make Guerrero’s year better than Shoehei. And I’m no Angel fan
He’s pitching AND hitting as productively as Guerrero is just hitting with as much power. You’re biased and that’s the end of your analysis
Except he’s not hitting as productively as Guerrero…so who is biased?
Ohtani has been very good, but why do people keep making the claim that he’s been as good offensively as Vlad? It’s simply not true. If you think he deserves the MVP, the real argument comes down to the value he adds as a pitcher pushing him over Vlad. fWAR would agree with that, for now.
Is or was he on a five day rotation? How does that compare to what he was doing in Japan?
What a great player to have if youre not in the middle of a pennant race. The definition of a true MVP.
Unfortunate so many MLB stars are hurt. The season is far too long – evolve. Rest days and shutting down stars are both reflections of burnout. Quality over quantity, I say. Hope this guy is ready for another epic year, with Trout on hand, in 2022.
Hit or pitch not both.
This is insanity, Angels keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
Wendell = Actually this is the first time this has been done in decades so it’s not the same thing. He has been very successful at both skills this year so he has proven he can do both at an elite level.
Not a big fan of Ohtani, but I’d vote for him as MVP. Being in contention is a convenient excuse to not vote for him. There have been MVPs who’s teams were not in contention. It could become an Angels’ tradition. Mike Trout has two of three MVPs won and the Angels were not in contention. 1987 Dawson is another, but he was a Cub. I guess it depends on the mood of the voters.
Time to trade Trout and Ohtani.
We need to cash in on them while we can.
Mike – So the “trade Trout” comments pop up every now and then. The Angels are a few pitchers away from contending with a couple of other holes to address. Ignoring the fact that Trout chose to be a career Angel and has a full no trade clause, trading the best player in the history of baseball, no matter what the return, makes the team worse. If the Angels were in full rebuild mode, there might be a logical argument to make. But I would still argue in that scenario that Trout is the anchor to rebuild around.
Trout is not being traded. Neither is Ohtani after the year he had.
10 years premature calling him the greatest player ever in the history of the game. You angels fans crack me up sometimes.
Happy to amuse. I’m fine with inserting the word “potentially”.
Dude is just trolling for Trout. I mean what’s he supposed to do, no Salmon left here.
I’m not sure you *could* trade them. The Angels would rightfully ask for the entire farm for either of these players, and I don’t think any team is going to pay that cost. But, even more importantly, why would the Angels give up their main attractions- the players people flock to see even when the Angels are out of contention? These are players that would be the core of any rebuild or buildup for years to come, but by trading them, you relegate your team to years of waiting for potential talent to transition to MLB talent.
Keep in mind, if the Angels wanted, they could scoop up some serious pitching over the next two offseasons. Scherzer is a FA and reportedly wants to stay on the west coast, Verlander, another FA, will be back sometime next season and then there’s Rodon, Ray, Gausman – those are just the short-term (Scherzer) or cheaper contracts (the rest) because they’re comeback pitchers. The Angels could be a serious problem for the division for the foreseeable future.
Well said. Need that 1 alpha. Tough to get even locals like Cole to come here though.
I’d like to add they’ve pumped 25 fresh arms into the system in the last 6 months. One or two of those working out and a young upcoming holdover like C-Rod staying healthy…
“Need that 1 alpha.”
Not necessarily. You can take a look at the Tampa Bay Rays. They have been doing quite well without that one alpha. They do have Glasnow, who is one of the best pitchers in the game, but he has not pitched in 3 months. I would contend that the Angels rotation of Ohtani, Suarez, Sandoval, and Cobb compares favorably to the Rays rotation in both ERA+ and WAR. The Angels may lose Cobb, so that will be another hole to fill. There are a lot of options available this year, but i don;t necessarily think the Angels need the best available in order to contend.
I would also say if healthy, the potential of the Angels lineup is unmatched. They can have 3 guys in a row with 150 OPS+ potential.
I know a lot of people don’t see it, but I believe the Angels compare quite favorably to the Rays in terms of starting rotation and starting lineup. Where the Angels don’t compare to the Rays is the bullpen. The Angels need to completely revamp the bullpen. Hopefully, they can retain Iglesias, but the rest can use an upgrade.
The rays are 12th in run prevention, 1st in runs scored and 26th in payroll
Angels are 23rd in run prevention, 16th in runs scored and 7th in payroll.
There is no comparable between one of the best run organizations in baseball, and frankly one of the worst. Nice try though
Potential huh? In the words of Josh Donaldson ” This is the get it done league ”
The Jays will very likely have 4 guys in the Top 10 for MVP. Reality over Fiction.
Yep, Angels will have 4 MVPs on their roster next year with Trout winning 3 and Ohtani winning 1 because the get it done i guess and Jays will have 0.
How many post season appearances since 2015? Wait for it……0
Must really suck to be an Angels fan . The Jays went to post season 15&16, then rebuilt and have a great team again.
The Angels? Stuck in the mud spinning their wheels year after year after year.
. “The Jays went to post season 15&16”. Nice, Did they get a participation trophy like you?
Just had to mention the Angels great draft strategies like them sighing about 20 more nd players and a number have already been playing and playing well and not just in the rookie leagues. Not all were pitchers but they have added more than 25 .
We keep hearing the angels are close to competing every year…I’ll believe it when I see it. The Astros and A’s might take a step back next year, but I’d still probably take them + the Mariners over the Angels for 2022.
Yankee, Scherzer said he is very happy in LA and he specifically said he would like to watch, as his teammate, Kershaw notch 3000 Ks.
If Bauer is suspended for all of 2022 which is a distinct possibility (or the Dodgers sense that is the case) neither Kershaw nor Scherzer likely leaving.
Have to believe Bauer’s career is over.
I watch every single Angel game and i can honestly say Ohtani is as lost at the plate as he’s ever been right now. But he can flip the switch like no one else.
Amazing how extreme his performance can be, mostly really good but sometimes really awful.
Still a little raw, and missed a lot of time. This is not his peak, he’s only going to get better…
i hope he blows his arm put forever. i’m so sick of these soft angels fans acting like he is the best thing they’ve ever seen. espn has really got to their head. don’t @ me clowns, angels fans are embarrassing to the game
scotcousins Pretty disgusting sentiment wishing that he blows his arm out. Totally classless. No, you are clearly a clown. And I’m no Angels fan.
typical LA guy thinking their moral compass is so much better than the rest. “look at how much nicer of a person i am than you!” quit your virtual signaling and go find something to do with your day.
How ironic that you are complaining about my “virtual signaling” when you are doing exactly that. You are the epitome of garbage in, garbage out.
yuck what a take
No need to post in the future, just find a rock to crawl under.
by 2024 he’ll be a DH hitting .260 with some power and these people, who don’t even live in LA, will be saying “but..but…he’s babe ruth!” hahaha
Scot is a bully. He beat up a guy named Buster Posey. And he did say just put out his arm.
So what you’re saying is you’re jealous he didn’t sign with your team. Sorry, he’s ours. So is Trout. Not yours.
As much as I love watching Trout and like watching Ohtani, I’d still find it incredibly difficult to be jealous of the Angels.
I myself actually love Ohtani spurned the Yankees and signed with the Angels.
Vlad .317 173 hits
Ohtani .256 125 hits
Almost 50 hits more wow
just came from 1980’s?
So hits no longer count?
Not when you’re the Vizionaire.
Hits and batting average still count but they just give a very narrow perspective on a player’s offensive impact.
I’m not making a case for either player, there are just obvious shortcomings in using H and/or avg to gauge a player’s value.
Another millennial who thinks they invented the game….yeh hits count.
Ohtani 7.6 WAR
Vlad 6.3 WAR
1.3 greater WAR wow
By fWAR the difference between them is .7. We’ve definitely seen cases where people with higher WAR totals have lost the MVP when the gap is bigger than this. It’ll be interesting to see how the voting goes this year.
fWAR
G: 6.6
O: (4.6 + 2.7) = 7.3
Dudes got skills.
Honestly, who gives a crap. He plays on a team going nowhere.
Ohtani stinks. He leads the league in IBB with 12 and CS with 9. That’s like only getting on base 3 times..
Want more of a impressive stat is the fact he walked 19 batters in his first 4 starts. In his next 17 starts he walked 2 or less in 14 of those, hitting some of those 44 home runs while at it. Not only did he win it with pitching but he scored the runs too. That’s true value of an MVP. Yes second half decline while only starting 21 games. Probably lead the league in helmet loss during swings and misses too.
Angel Fans – let’s be honest about what this season was.
Offense: They had Trout for 36 games. Rendon for 58. Upton for 89. Fowler for 7. Yet in the middle of all of that Ohtani posts 44 HR and a .957OPS and a 155OPS+.
Pitching: Outside of Ohtani, their leading starters were Heaney (5.27ERA), Bundy (6.06ERA), Canning (5.60ERA), Sandoval (3.62 ERA) and Cobb (3.59ERA). They have now (including tonight) pitched TEN guys that at one point this season were in AA. During all of this Ohtani is 9-2 with a 3.36ERA (and if you watch the Angels you know there are just a couple of games that negatively impact those numbers).
The fact this team is 72-74 is a miracle. Their Bill James expected win loss is 66-80.
They just injected 25 arms into their system and some are already performing at higher levels. The future is bright.
What? Season’s over and one day later he won’t miss a start? Modern medicine is simply amazing! Whatever they gave him certainly needs to be shared around the league.
Glad to hear he will pitch more this year.
I think the point of my question got lost in the specifics of Vlad vs ShoTine.
Full disclosure: yes, I prefer the Jays over the Angels. But I’d be asking the same thing if instead of Guerrero it were Buxton, Judge, Correa, or anyone else.
The thing is, what is classified as “Value”?
The general consensus here seems to be that we downplay Vlad Jr’s season because Shohei is doing things we haven’t seen in several generations. OK, I totally get that.
But what happens in seasons to come? Do we automatically now dismiss all great (and valuable) offensive performances simply because the other guy doesn’t pitch?
If, somehow, Ohtani sustains his success and plays at a 2-way All-Star level for multiple seasons does he automatically win every year simply because he is good at both?
Should he also win all of the Cy Young awards because he can out-hit other, better pitchers?
Let’s be clear, here: .256, 44, 94 (currently) is otherworldly for a pitcher, but not MVP-level hitting.
Similarly, 9-2, 3.36, 136 is unattainable for other position players, but is simply “solid” among pitching lines.
So, would Ohtani be awarded for performance or for novelty? And if he has comparable stats for the next 3 years as the novelty fades, does every other standout performance get ignored in favor of “good” 2-way stats year in and year out??
We have never had to ask this question in our lifetime, so we don’t yet know what we don’t know.
Either way, it’s a much deeper and more fundamental question of the sport than either player/team bias or a “cool” factor can determine.
@starscream. I love your transformers handle. Your post was long but intelligent. Not sure that I’ve seen you comment before. Welcome to the comments section.
Well said Starscream…..Angels fans, from past comments need to accept the realty that Ohtani. while a very good 2 way player is a “novelty” in todays MLB. Before we put him in the HOF, lets see the consistency of his accomplishments over years of performance and the comparison of that vs. the other great players in the game past or present before we year in and year out anoint him as the best that ever was!
I think they should just have a AL/NL best hitter award. But this is the award and I do think you are way under stating solid. using the stats you say 9-2 3.36 just solid among pitching lines. How many AL pitchers have better ? Bottom line, War is a good stat for this and Ohtani has the lead. In fact I think Semien might be my # 2 vote for AL MVP.
Clearly, Gregory Polanco of the Blue Jays should be MVP.
Shohei Ohtani and Vladimir G Jr will be co-winners of the 2021 MVP Award
What a has been