For players eager to win now, they usually want their teams to add veteran players to help put the club over the top. Bryce Harper may be an exception, as when speaking to The Athletic’s Matt Gelb and other reporters following the Phillies’ season-ending loss to the Marlins, Harper stressed that “we can’t just keep going out and buying and buying and buying. We need homegrown talent. When you look at teams that have homegrown talent, those are the teams that have success….We need guys to come up from the minor leagues and have success and be successful. Not have to go up and down.”
Aaron Nola and Rhys Hoskins stand out as recent success stories from Philadelphia’s player pipeline, but apart from that duo, the Phillies have struggled to find consistent contributions from within the organizations. Highly-touted youngsters like Alec Bohm, Scott Kingery, Mickey Moniak, and Adam Haseley have yet to make much of an impact at the big league level, and Gelb notes that the Phils have been lacking a streamlined approach throughout the organization — there appears to be “a disconnect between what was taught below and preached in the majors.” The Phillies are already making changes in the player development department and are on the lookout for a new hitting coach, though it remains to be seen if the team can figure out this “disconnect” while still addressing their 2022 needs and being competitive next season.
More from around the NL East…
- J.D. Davis will undergo surgery Tuesday to fix a torn ligament in his left hand. The Mets infielder played in only 73 games this season due to four separate trips to the injured list related to his hand injury, and Davis told The New York Daily News’ Deesha Thosar and other reporters that he expects to have a normal offseason after his surgery, so he should be ready for Spring Training. As to whether or not he’ll be at the Mets’ camp is another question, as after a year of trade rumors, Davis said his “gut feeling” is that he “could be out of here” and headed to another team. “It’s kind of 50/50, kind of a flip of the coin,” Davis said. “I know there’s going to be plenty of changes up and down from the front office all the way down to here….But there’s a possibility that I could come back. I love New York. I love the fans.”
- As Davis mentioned, the Mets will be undergoing many changes, including a possible overhaul of the coaching staff that could include manager Luis Rojas. Of all the coaches, The New York Post’s Mike Puma (Twitter link) believes pitching coach Jeremy Hefner is the likeliest to remain in Queens. 2021 is the last guaranteed year of Hefner’s original two-year contract, but the Mets hold a club option on Hefner’s services for next season.
- The Nationals definitively won’t be making a change at pitching coach, as manager Davey Martinez told reporters (including MASNsports.com’s Mark Zuckerman) on Saturday that Jim Hickey for a second season on Washington’s staff. Other changes could be forthcoming to the coaching corps, however, and president of baseball operations Mike Rizzo told Zuckerman and company today that the Nationals are “certainly going to make some changes in the player development and scouting ranks.” The idea is that “ten or 12 years with the same staff shows the cohesion, and then when you make some nice tweaks to get a new set of eyes and some new ideas is never a bad thing,” Rizzo said.
The Phillies failure lays at the feet of Klentak. He was AWFUL.
The issues have been there for 3 GMs now
they’re trying to make it out now like Klentak still being with the team is some scourge. i mean, he’s getting paid regardless and I doubt DD is beholden to him so…
Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery.
*Ba-dum TISSSSSSSSSS*
I agree with Harper but that all depends on how fast the Phillies are trying to win. They did a terrible job drafting and developing playe s during their rebuild so the only option the really have to win now is make good signings. Those disappointing players aren’t suddenly going to turn into great players just because Harper wants home grown talent. Harpers locked up there for years though so maybe he just wants to make sure the Phillies concentrate on drafting and developing well in the future so there will be a good young core he can work with when he’s still there 4 or 5 years from now. The Phillies really did jump their rebuild. They should have done better from the beginning and they should have kept it going longer. I can’t remember a team wasting so many high draft picks over such a short period of time. It always cracks me up when teams like the Reds start a rebuild and then just decide arbitrarily one year it has been long enough and they are going to start buying players. I look at there roster and I think, “Now?! Why now? This is a .500 team at best and you couldn’t even really compete for even a wildcard spot last season.” Teams should wait until there young core is absolutely ready before they decided to jump the gun and stop rebuilding while blowing a bunch of money they could save for future years they are actually closer. I think the last rebuild I saw that I really thought was a good idea to declare over was the Braves. They waited until guys like Freeman, Soroka, Fried, Albies and Acuna were already good enough to have won them a division championship on their own before they ended their rebuild. Don’t take a mediocre club and add to it because at best it will probably just earn you a playoff appearance. Wait until the prospects you acquired can get you to the playoffs already and then add to that with hope the team will now not only make the playoffs but actually go deeper than they just did. It’s cheaper and lasts longer that way. Also, fans don’t really care about playoff appearances. They care about world series championships. The idea that adding a few players to a .500 club will make you a world series caliber team is usually pretty futile. It also must feel really disappointing when fans hear the rebuild is over and then still have to watch their team not even make the playoffs. It’s like, “This is what it looks like when you actually try your hardest?” The Phillies fans went through a long rebuild and then saw their team spend a ton of money. The. They had to watch the Braves win the division even though the Braves spent way less, starts their rebuild way later and were technically still rebuilding. That’s a disservice to true Phillies fans. If they had gone just a little longer and drafted a little better this team could be far superior to what it is now. The same thing with the Reds. Their fans read one day that the front office decided the rebuild was over. Then they watched them spend $64 million on Mike Moustakus of all players. That’s more than triple what Moose was projected to earn. For all that effort Reds fans got one playoff appearance. They only got it became we they were one of the lowest playoff teams in a shortened season that allowed 16 teams in the playoffs and still got swept out of the first round. Now both the Phillies and Reds have had their rebuilds over for years now. They may be able to switch some expensive players out for other expensive players here and there but still… This is it. The rebuild is over and this is pretty much what your teams gonna look like. I would be upset if I were a Phillies or Reds fan like I got sold a bill of goods that wasn’t at all that it cracked up to be. I would feel like why are the other teams so much better at their rebuilds even though some of them have lower payrolls than us? The most important thing in a rebuild is timing. The 2nd most important thing is having a front office that is very good and knows exactly what it’s doing. Preferably guys that has been through and ran very successful rebuilds before. It seems like the Phillies and Red didn’t have those kind of people in charge and even worse just arbitrarily decided they wanted the rebuild to be over without really looking at what was going on with the core of young players they already had on the roster. If the core isn’t there it is always better to just keep building until it is. You can’t just tell your young players to be ready right now and actually expect it to happen.
That’s pretty spot on. A problem with taking several years to rebuild can be patience with said team’s fanbase. Failure of said team’s amateur scouting to properly vet talent before drafting/signing. Multiple reasons.
Phillies case I see, from a distance probably fans intolerant and wanted to win sooner, along with several poor picks. Add to that Dombrowski now brought in, who isn’t going to add long term to any farm system, but deplete it further trying to win.
The problem here is not a lack of patience and jumping the rebuild too early. The problem here is not hitting on any of your picks. They continue to fail at drafting and scouting, something that’s been there historically for this franchise.
Yeah. Fans always get impatient. They really act like spending money on the free agent market is all the team is gonna need. I personally prefer to be patient and eventually receive true gratification as opposed to being impatient and being disappointed. I used to get so mad at the Hawks. They would literally say their goal every single year was to “be respectable.” That basically means no contention but zero high draft picks to compensate for the lack of championships. Give me the high draft picks over a .500 record any day. At least I’ll have something to be excited about. Another problem is the front office themselves. They usually told the owner the rebuild would take a certain number of years. Then when they realize they blew it they just try to spend more money to only “be respectable” in an attempt to cover up their own professional shortcomings. They also figure if they admit they screwed up the draft the owner will just fire them and replace them with someone better. They literally ruin a teams chance to truly contend for years just to try and keep their job for one more year. It’s sad for fans when one or two guys ruin everything just to put a couple extra million bucks in their own pocket. It also sad that the owners don’t see it coming. If I owned a team I would be keeping very close track of all the moves my front office was making and how they turned out. If it’s not good they would be fired before the rebuild ended and the next front office would have to continue the rebuild until the acquired enough good prospects to make it right.
That’s why the Phillies need to trade Harper, Wheeler and Realmunto because by the time they are competitive again, these players will be on the downside of their prime. It’s time to be like the Baltimore Orioles.
@Bowadoyle They were competitive in chunks this year. And while injuries hit the Mets and Braves, the Hoskins and Eflin injury hit the Phillies hard as well. They don’t need to rebuild, but they do need to reinforce. They are maybe 3 players (not big name FAs, but talented infielders and a CF) from being a top team. I know there are a lot of teams on the fringe like that, but the Phillies can fix these problems.
I look at there roster and I think, “Now?! Why now?
====================================
I say this all the time.
The Reds when they traded Gray & Downs for one year of Puig, when they weren’t even going to be .500.
The Phillies when they traded Crawford for Segura, and then for Realmuto.
The SDP in a different way, when they traded half their farm for different pieces.
The teams that create mini-dynasties only add pieces when they are ready, and usually add them one at a time.
Wow. That was an essay!
@JoeBrady Crawford was really the only talented player the Phillies traded away. The Realmuto trade looks to be in the Phillies favor, as the Sixto Sanchez injury concerns have already proven to be true.
This narrative that the Phillies traded away their future for win-now talents isn’t really true. The fact is, outside of Crawford, they really gave up nothing. They just can’t develop internally.
i still dont agree with that narrative. i don’t think one more year of rebuild would have changed much.
The Phillies bullpen says hello.
I wouldn’t say Crawford was the only one they missed. 1 not listed, yet hurt Philly this year was the Pivetta/Seabold deal last year for the 2 rental relievers. I understand Pivetta is a #4-5SP, but Philly needed all hands on deck filling starts during periods this season and some of the guys starting probably should have been in Indy ball, or not playing at all.
Not slamming them, or the fans, but it was a typical Dombrowski deal where he just overpays and when he’s ur team’s GM? it gets maddening seeing it happen time after time.
If your gm can’t make the playoffs with homegrown players and one year deals only, he shouldn’t ever be given keys to the vault to sign any multi year free agents. I’ve been preaching this for years.
Spending stupid money when your team wasn’t good enough to make the playoffs the previous year is a good way to close a window of contention faster and not ever win.
That is exactly what I have been saying only to be criticized.The fans need to
suck it up for 3 to 5 yrs.The organization will never do this not yet.They are going nowhere with these 3 move them while the getting is good and pray they get decent returns.
Phillies rotation has no room for Pivetta in it, and Pivetta was absolutely horrific in Philadelphia. So that trade was whatever.
Also that wasn’t a Dombrowski move because he wasn’t with the team yet. That was still the old regime.
@Von & Dark side: Obviously the first mistake the Phillies made was doing a poor job drafting. Having Nola and Hopkins as really the only impactful players come out of the drafting process of that rebuild was terrible. They should have waited and continued to rebuild though until they had more core players that would actually contribute. If you do a poor job of drafting you don’t just say, “Oh well. Those are the guys we drafted. This was our original timeline so we gotta stick to it.” You replace the guys that did the poor drafting with someone better until the job is done right. Even if they were ready to spend money they could have acquired players at the tail end of bad contracts and forced the other teams to attach proven prospects to the package in exchange for the money the Phillies would basically be giving them. It’s actually a really good way to speed up the rebuild process. The Braves were doing that all over the place. They were taking on contracts like Adrian Gonzalez and Scott Kazmir and then immediately releasing them. The Phillies also gave up good draft picks to sign guys like Harper and Wheeler and I’m sure others. They could have really used those picks. Harper and Realmuto and Wheeler are all great. The Phillies core wasn’t good enough yet though to have those guys be the answer that pushed them over the top. Being patient and waiting until someone actually built them a solid core would have actually expedited the process to serious world series contention. This isn’t a perfect example by any stretch but look at the Rays for instance. They basically build their entire team through drafting and trading away expensive players for great prospects. The Phillies have tried to win by literally doing the exact opposite of those things. Can you imagine if the Phillies were patient long enough to build a good team the way the Rays did and then had all that money to add on top of that? Imagine if the Tampa Bay rays had the team they have now and then quadrupled their payroll over night. That’s the situation the Phillies would be in if they had just been patient and waited until they had the right front office guys and gave them enough time to build the core up with the right players. The Phillies would have saved money all those years, have a much better farm system and now instead of being a super expensive team that just hangs around .500 they would literally be the hands down world series favorite in all of baseball. You’re right in the sense the first mistake was not drafting the right guys. They should still should have been patient and kept plugging away at it until they got the job done right. The difference in the end result could or would have been mammoth. Even if it takes longer you have to continue the rebuild until the team is actually rebuilt with the right players. I also wasn’t suggesting the Phillies only needed one extra year of rebuilding. It could have been several. Continuing the rebuild in 2018, 2019 and 2020 would have made this team a lot better than it is now. I know fans would have been complaining for waiting that long but they would have also looked at the lack of real core prospect depth and realized it was necessary. By now they would be so glad that the Phillies took that route they would be calling for the GM to win executive of the year. With the payroll this team has, waiting until they finished a proper rebuild wouldn’t have just made them better. It could have made them one of the best teams in all of baseball.
@The Mets “Missed WAR” Comments like this make sense are often stated by non-Phillies fans. But the Phillies have waited decades during some of their rebuilds and still failed. I’m sorry, but had they waited longer they would have simply sucked longer. It’s not like they started spending in 2015. They were rebuilding for over 5 years before making a big signing, and quite frankly without those signings there would be absolutely no hope right now. No one would be buying tickets. The team would be battling for 4th place at best. They weren’t too far off from a playoff spot.
The thing I constantly debate here, is that the Phillies never really traded away the future to win-now. They signed Harper to a relatively reasonable AAV. Same can be said about Wheeler. They splurged on Arrieta and McCutchen. Those are mistakes, but that money is coming back.
This idea that a team should wait patiently during a rebuild only works if you’re developing talent. The Phillies have not and are not. They’ve had some incredibly bad luck, and guys who were supposed to be big starts don’t pan out. They really didn’t trade any talent away in the last few years. Outside of Crawford and Sixto Sanchez, and you can debate that they got fair value back in terms of Segura and Realmuto. There’s just no talent to be found in their system. The FA signings made them relevant. They aren’t too far removed from a playoff spot, and they still have some financial flexibility next year.
Pivetta is a #5 on a mediocre team, not in the rotation on a good team.
Pivetta is meh…a bit of a head case. However, moving Cole Irvin in the offseason to the Athletics for cash to make a roster spot for Matt Moore was a sure miss.
This year Pivetta was better than a #5, definitely good enough to be in the rotation on a winning team (which he is). Was terrible in Phillie though.
@bowadoyle
Lets look at reality in Philly. They just added Harper, Realmuto and Wheeler. The powers that be are telling DD to win. Trading these players gets you fired. Its not an option. So given the reality, what would you do to make the team better, assuming they still have a tax threshold going forward?
@Von: You are totally right in your last statement. Maybe the problem is with the owner. They have different front office guys controlling the draft now though don’t they? I mean, hey. I’m a Braves fan and you guys won a championship way more recently than we did so your owner must know someone who knows how to do it. I feel your pain. I’ve felt it with the Hawks and Falcons so many years. You don’t trust your front office. The fact of the matter is that means they probably are never going to win. Moniak was never supposed to be the #1 overall pick. And that’s just one example. I can forgive GMs for taking a guy high who was suppose to go high and then he fails. The A’s did that with AJ Puk. He was supposed to go #1 and they drafted him 6th and he still failed. The Falcons did that with Vic Beasley. He was supposed to go 7th and that’s where the Falcons took him because all the top 6 guys were off the board. If they make the obvious decision and it fails that is forgivable. If they try to make a cute decision like Moniak and it blows up in their face that means that have to go. Obvious decisions should make it. Cute decisions have to make it. I was initially upset when AA drafted Ian Anderson over Puk. It was definitely a cute decision. Clearly AA was right though. You have to build the core of your team from the inside first and then buy from the top of the market to compliment those cheap young long term core pieces. The Phillies are trying to buy their core and use a couple of drafted players as compliments. Even if you have a $210 million payroll no team can afford to do that anymore. The Yankees did it but that was when they were outspending everyone in history by a wide margin with no luxury tax. Don’t forget signing Wheeler and Harper cost you multiple high compensation draft picks. The Braves drafted Austin Riley with one of those compensation picks. They also traded a compensation pick to the Angels in the Mark Texiera deal and the Angels used that pick to draft Mike Trout. Those are important. I totally get what your saying and to be honest none of our voices really matter. Don’t root for your franchise to build a team backwards because you don’t think they are capable of building one forwards though. Root for your team to finally figure out how to do it forwards. Otherwise you’ve already given up hope for a true contention. I do realize that the Phillies tried going through a complete rebuild in the exact same model the Astros and Cubs did. I also realize they completely punted it so I know how you lost faith in them. Didn’t they put someone else new in charge though? I would never suggest they should trade Realmuto, Wheeler or Harper for anything less than a blow you the way offer. Part of the problem is the Phillies are willing to hand out no trade clauses. They can’t trade them. It’s understood to every single Braves player that signs no-trades and opt outs will never be offered because we need a way out if something falls apart. Even Freeman and Acuna couldn’t get one. The Phillies punted their rebuild and then hired Dombrowski because the owner is spending so much money already and he is probably pretty old and has bought into what the other GM told him and thinks this team is on the verge of winning it. I’ve met some MLB owners before. Believe me when I say the Phillies owner probably knows a lot less about how to truly build a championship team than you or I do. He just hires people to do that for him because he likes the idea. The problem is that he hasn’t been able to figure out how to hire the right people recently. He did it before when you won your last championship. He might even think Moniak is going to be the outfield version of Ryan Howard or Chase Utley because a whole lot of his very trusted employees probably bashed that into his brain before they drafted him #1. As a fan who roots for other fans I can say don’t root for your team to dig a bigger hole. Root for them to dig out if it. Root for another overhaul if you have to. I promise you Harper knows what he’s talking about in this article. He sees what you and I see and that is almost no foundation for the free agents to lean on. I finally stayed rooting for the Hawks last season for the 2nd time in my life because I finally think they might be able to do something. They made the playoffs almost every year but I always hoped they didn’t because I wanted that high pick and I knew they would never win it all anyway. I feel your disappointment because I’ve felt it too. Don’t root for your team to disappoint you less in the short term. Root for your team to make you truly proud in the long term.
It’s partially their drafting but equally their inability to develop talent. They’ve had a lot of talented young players that were wasted or poorly managed.
With the exception of the Howard, Rollins, Utley, Hamels era, the issues have been there historically.
They are suck like always they always hairless
In English, please?
They had years of top draft picks and only hit on Nola. That’s on more than Klentak.
“They had years of top draft picks and only hit on Nola. That’s on more than Klentak.”
This is exactly it. Just this sentence. In order to win you need a combination of homegrown talent and good FA signings/trades. The Phillies drafting, scouting and development has been horrendous. You can’t fix that magically. It’s not about patience. It’s about hiring the right people and getting some good luck. The Phillies had none of that.
Draft picks are on the scouting directors. They make the recommendations. Klentak and other GMs do not scout players. It is a consensus of multiple team personel on who to draft, not the GM and only the GM. They all rely on the advice of the scouting department, but everyone seems to want to blame Klentak like he scouts and decides all by himself who to draft
I would say the Phillies did okay with Rhys Hoskins but he was a 5th round pick.
True. Hoskins and Nola were Amaro draftees. Their scouting department needs gutted. Cornelius Randolph over Austin Riley and Mickey Moniak over Ian Anderson. Any questions?
Hindsight is 20 / 20. Do you think scouting directors have a crystal ball or something?
Fans of every single team in MLB can and do whine about who their team did or didn’t pick. Phillies fans just seem to cry more.
Sounds like Bryce is getting impatient. He signed the 13 year contract nobody forced him. If you want to watch something entertaining google Bryce Harper and Jonathan Papelbon. Then find the interview with Harper afterwards. Papelbon is definitely a crazy guy but got the best of Bryce on national television.
What an ironic statement from Harper.
totally couldnt interpret it as a critique of Joe’s usage of the young guys either…
Yeah, why didn’t he stay in Washington, if that’s the case. Things that make you go hmmm…
Maybe Washington should have ponied up more money to keep him then.
Why? They won without him.
because Rizzo isnt a psychic?
The Phillies have basically always been an organization that has to import talent. Some teams really embrace the idea of talent development, other teams only maintain a minor league system because everyone else does and they want to fit in.
i dunno if they are the later just that they suck at doing the former. you can do what they did during the 2009-2011 years and make deals for guys, but you gotta have a farm for it.
That’s not entirely true considering the core of their 2008 championship was all homegrown. However they did go overboard bringing in guys from outside the organization in the years following 08 and that led the Phillies to the mess they’ve been in since 2012
Where’s their title without Utley, Rollins, Howard, Hamels etc?
I concede the point about that core group, but it was more aberration than trend. It’s like the Yankees of the late 90’s. They developed a core that won, then abandoned the idea of developing players for 10 or 12 years.
In completely irrelevant news, does anyone else find it ironic that dusty barker was drinking beer from a shoe, while wearing surgical gloves on out of caution for covid?
I like this irrelevant news
This should be an article… Two thumbs up (but only one worked).
Didn’t know. One of my favorite sentences of the baseball year. Thanks.
Everyone knows that beer kills shoe germs. 😉
Mets need to completely dismantle everything from the head of baseball OPS down to the bat boy. Press the reset button and rebuild. Hopefully they can shed Lindor in the process.
I’d take Lindor on the Cards if the Mets eat 60% of the contract.
Okay …
Trade Arenado, Goldschmidt, and pick up 90% of the $$$ on the Contracts…
Mets won’t trade Lidor they are just a few pieces away from being strong again. Nobody blew the East division away. It was weakest division in baseball
If you look at the Braves 2nd half numbers, you can see that they are leagues above the Mets. Just look at run differential. The Braves as currently constructed could easily be a 95+ win team next year while the Mets need to restructure just to get to .500.
The Mets had some insanely poor record of close games, especially in the second half. They also had systematic hitting problems the entire season (like forgetting how to hit a fastball?).
New York definitely needs changes, but I think an honest and smart off-season could keep them ready for 2022..
” I think an honest and smart off-season could keep them (The Mets) ready for 2022..”
So there is no hope, right?
@Von
Exactly. Once they get the Freeman deal done, they don’t need much to stay the favorites for next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up keeping Duvall and/or Soler & essentially sending the same 2nd half lineup out there,
Duvall will stay as he doesn’t have the service time for free agent because of being kept in minors in 2019. He will miss 6 years service time by like 2 months
Mets will never, ever win anything. That’s where winning goes to die! Crappy org right from top to bottom and their fans are even worse…
new shoe. maybe?
Laughable…
MUST Be A CRANKEES FAN
Actually, it’s not going to happen and it shouldn’t. Yes, I expect changes in the front office and coaching staff, but cleaning house is not likely to happen except for UFAs and a few tradable arb and/or pre-arb players. Also, don’t forget that the upcoming CBA expiration could send all well-laid plans up in smoke. Excepting that, I think Conforto and Thor will get QOs. They will attempt to re-sign Baez, Villar, Loup, and Stroman. I don’t think Pillar will be back. Two or more of Davis, Smith, Nimmo, and McNeil may be traded for pitching. They could try to extend Alonso Tatis-style. Carrasco will be back. Cano will return as his contract is untradable and I don’t see a buyout coming. I believe Edwin Diaz has a year left. Betances, Familia and Gsellman will be gone. They will attempt to re-sign Hand and Hembree at bargain prices
Harper is right in his assessment of the Phillies’ situation but with Dombrowski running the show now they will likely continue to be aggressive in free agency and the trade market. I wonder if Harper is starting to regret his decision to not sign with the Giants 3 years ago
Harper chased dollars and California with taxes was less money. Had he wanted to win he would have taken shorter and high pay day.
Not sure giants would have the magic with Harper in their team
Yea I’m sure they’d be worse with a borderline mvp candidate
Nationals let him go and won it all the next year. He should been a huge loose. We all agree there.
If Harper is a jerk like other people say etc. you couldn’t see that rubbing off on people and causing club house issues? I believe for a team to win and win together they clubhouse has to be in good chemistry and they have to enjoy playing with each other. Another factor had they signed Harper they won’t have done other things or had the pieces they had this year. A lot of teams are finding takes more than one star player to win.
Also back to the first part of this the Giants don’t have a young core of emerging players like some teams so Harpers window in San Francisco won’t have been as bright as thought. Almost every giants over 30 had a career year hard to do that two years in a row
I think that while thing with Harper being considered a jerk ended well before he even left Washington. He said some dumb things when he first came up but he kind of wasn’t living in the real world. He was getting all this attention for being a super highly touted #1 overall pick and then he came up to the majors really quickly and was put in front of the media all the time. You also have to consider he was only about 18 or 19 years old back then. I shudder to think about some of the immature stuff I could have said when I was that age and I wasn’t even a millionaire all over television every day. From what I hear he has really matured and settled down. I know he is also supposedly “best friends” with Freddie Freeman. Back when he came up he probably never would have been friends with a division rival and would have openly talked bad about them because he thought people would interpret him as being “competitive” or something like that. I also know Freddie is considered one of the most mature, level headed and genuinely nicest guys in all of baseball. It’s hard for me to imagine them being that close if Harper really did still act like a jerk. Everyone says dumb things when they are teenagers. I haven’t heard of anything like that happening with Harper in a long time. I think his personality started changing the season after he won his mvp. People were really disappointed in him and I think he realized he didn’t have it all figured out. Instead of being immature and getting mad or catching an attitude about it he humbled himself and worked hard to get better at the game. People grow up over time.
Who says Harper is a jerk besides fans who know nothing? I’ve heard the complete opposite from Nats and Phillies alike. The Nats won the World Series and dismantled their team. Harper wanted stability in a big market.
Yes they probably would be as they wouldn’t have the extra payroll to make them such a complete team. Harper is not a winner, ask the Nats about that. SF is so good because they are so deep, not because they have an overpaid bum like Harper…
“overpaid bum like Harper”
Do you even watch baseball?
I don’t remember the exact details of the Giants offer to Harper but I seem to recall it being an 8 year deal with a higher AAV than he received from Philly. Harper wanted to sign a deal that would take him to retirement. It also seemed he bought into the hype surrounding the Phillies at the time. The Giants future looked bleak around that time so that was definitely a factor. Suggesting the Giants wouldn’t be as good with a player of Harper’s caliber is a bit absurd don’t you think?
You have to admit though, his statement wreaks of irony (or hypocrisy).
Nationals let Harper go and won World Series; giants have a magic season this year with everyone flowing great together. If you read Harper is called a jerk by a lot of other players etc thinking that yes he is dam good but would the players around him respond and play as well. Clubhouse chemistry is huge so just saying not sure the giants chemistry would the same with him.
Giants now have the perfect blend of vets ( who will decline) random finds , as much money to spend as any team an a farm system that for whatever reason most think is in the lower 20s or something! I don’t know what will become of the giants but they have top 5 resources at their disposal and their think tank appears smart in the margins , while Phillies ? Are just spinning the wheels. To nowhere
Provide the quotes calling him a jerk. This is fan nonsense.
@vonpurplehayes
Well Papelbon certainly thought he was a jerk lol
Harper leaving Washington before they won the WS means nothing. They won because they still had 2 elite hitters in Soto and Rendon and a dominant trio of Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin in their rotation. The Giants didn’t have a “magic season” this year. They have a roster full of guys who play good fundamental baseball and they are led by a great coaching staff. It’s been years since Harper was viewed as a guy with character issues
Definitely, but Papelbon was famously a jerk despite his talent.
It’s Harper, he isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. He is a greedy man who cares more about his $$$ than winning.
Wow, every one of your comments is dumber than the last.
@von. I agree on Papelbon. But he embarrassed Bryce big time. What shaped my opinion of Harper is the interview afterwards. All he had to do was say he had no comment but he caved in the end and acted like a baby.
Does anyone else think the Nationals are in a stage of denial? They keep talking like they are just a couple small tweaks away from contending again. I think it could get worse before it gets better.
Nationals see what baseball saw I think the national league East was not a strong division so signing a few players and they could be in the chase. All the other teams looked bad at certain points
The NL East wasn’t as weak as you’re painting it. Before the trade deadline all five teams were strong in at least some areas. Yes the Nats tore it down, but that’s 2 months worth of season.
There was no Pittsburgh, Arizona or Cubs in this division to pad the win stats against this year.
Appalachian_outlaw; the Braves won’t have ran away with the division had the Mets and Phillies played better during there streak. The Mets totally ranked for some reason.
A lot of these teams in the East are not that far out of it on paper so adding a pitcher: a bat a reliever etc and they are right in the race next year on paper. The nationals picked up a excellent pitching prospect from the dodgers that could turn things quickly.
“excellent pitching prospect” lol where? Neither pitcher that they’ve picked up has been good. Also let’s be real here, the braves won’t be a sub 90 win team next year. When acuna returns along with other additions, I doubt just a few moves by other teams will change much.
They should start by getting Bob Carpenter out of the play-by-play role. Or at least make him stop saying “See you later” when the Nats homer.
Atlanta Braves 2021 NL East Champs!
Lots of homegrown talent, key FA pickups in the off-season and at deadline! And a GM willing to bet on his team and make moves!
Won’t stop the Braves from choking in the playoffs….again
Uh oh, I hope Harper’s comments didn’t come at the behest of ownership, meaning they don’t plan on spending much money to improve the team this off-season.
By principal I agree with Harper, but not on a team with high payroll and little in the way of organizational talent. They need to spend fairly big and probably go over the luxury tax, or 2022 will be another 80 win season.
*principle
Cigar Guy (Middleton) isn’t gonna spend big cheese on FA this year. Phils are up against the salary cap and the brass doesn’t want to exceed it. Best we can hope for is the money they save by not picking up options on Cutch and Odubel can be wisely put to use to rebuild the bullpen.
Good plan? Yes. But Phils have really been unlucky and/or unwise with FA relievers. Can’t think of the last one who was any good.
Phillies actually free up some money with Cutch coming off the books. They don’t need to spend big, but they do need to plug holes.
He says one thing but he’s gonna be pushing Phillies to sign his best mate kris Bryant no matter the cost ! Despite what he said and. Despite if it’s wise or not he will be very unhappy if they don’t add Bryant !
Phils will spend money, they have to if they want the attendance. I can definitely see a 4 yr deal on another Wheeler type, Bryant would make Bryce happy so do it on a short term 2 yr deal.. this also gives Bohm some time to grow up…. And Dear Santa could you please sign Correa or Story on a nice 6 yr deal move Didi to second. Segura would be an expensive bench, but given injury rates worth it or could be moved for more pitching or prospects.
We’re wasting wasting prime years on Harper, Nola and JT. It looks like the Mets are going to hire a real GM and ATL will be good for years to come.. so the only option is to spend some what big now if they want to at least make the playoffs, the guys on the farm just aren’t ready yet.
Bryant played well enough this year, and is young enough to easily surpass two years.
Phillies rotation is pretty set next year: Wheeler, Nola, Suarez, Gibson, Eflin. They don’t need to splurge on another Wheeler type. This is a solid staff. They need to improve SS, CF and 3B.
Their off-season needs to start and end with bullpen. Girardi needs more talented pieces to misuse.
I actually disagree. I think they need to plug some holes in the lineup. I think they need to shore up the defense. CF, SS and 3B. Fix those 3 areas and the whole team is better. The blown save thing will fix itself with better defense, better starting pitching and better offense. I would prefer a better closer, but it’s not exactly easy to just sign a FA closer.
Agreed, but to not even mention the bullpen is concerning, considering it’s been one of the worst for years. They were 24th in MLB in bullpen ERA – and that’s misleading considering they were getting a half-season’s elite production from Ranger Suarez who is now in the rotation. Peter robbed Paul to pay Mary. They’ve got some wild cards in Coonrod, Neris, Dominguez, but you need veteran reliability – that someone like PHI can afford with some shrewd signings that can take some pressure off Nola, Wheeler, Suarez, Gibson – most of which were overperforming this year (Nola being the exception).
Not easy to sign a FA closer? PHI can afford a high AAV, short-term closer upgrade in a year that will see most likely Jansen, Kimbrel (expensive option to be a setup man in CHW?), Melancon. No, I don’t think Jansen will be worth the risk of the contract, but he’d still be an upgrade to what you already have.
I was listening to announcers and it was a good talk about that in the days of the stats defensive positioning not sure if you need to designate one pitcher as a closer and play more match ups. As the real save situation could be in the 7th inning etc. I believe it is Tampa has multiple pitchers with saves.
100% wrong. the lineup doesnt work as currently contracted. they need someone to fill in the 5th spot in the order.
Kimbrel with his 5.09 era with the White Sox? This is an upgrade?
Rojas is a goner.
As a long time Phillies fan, I will take no solace that the team posted an above .500 record this year. There are glaring weaknesses from top to bottom on this team with very few exceptions (Harper, Realmuto and Wheeler). And firing the hitting coaches wasn’t the answer.
Kudos to Ranger Suarez for advancing from an afterthought in Spring Training to a rotation stalwart by season’s end. We will count on him heavily in 2022 to prove that he was more than a one-year-wonder. JMHO, but I see him as a solid #3 starting pitcher who should have a decent career if he can stay healthy. Always a big “If” with pitchers.
Might have even won the NL East this year had Hoskins and Eflin not gotten hurt. Brad Miller had his moments but was not the steady performer at 1B that Hoskins was. Eflin, even at 75% ,would have been better than what we threw out there in those bullpen games. Alas, ’twas not to be.
Dombro is gonna have to pull some rabbits out the hat in 2022. We don’t have the available cheese to pursue the elite FA hitters or pitchers. Gotta shop for some bargains and hope they pan out like what the Giants did this year.
Why don’t guys like Harper make such franchise evaluations prior to signing? He has a valid point, but some franchises are better than others if that’s your goal. Example, want to get traded to the Dodgers? Sign in Boston. It’s basic stuff.
30Parks – Probably because his top priority was financial security for his family. He has that now, good for him. If he wanted to win, he could have signed with an established winner for less. Now that he has secured the contract, he likely feels the need to establish himself as a winner. The contract was easy, winning is hard.
Keep in mind that he was asked a direct question and answered directly. It’s not like he’s complaining or voicing this in a vacuum.
Ironic considering Bryce was a pricey FA.
Curious if you took each teams 1st round pick for the last 15 years and compared it to their success in the majors where the Phillies would rank as far as how many ‘busts’ they took.
If you were to analyze the selections ask yourself Why did we go X when others in the room liked Y and Y is an high end player now. That’s only one part of it. I’ve said for years the Phillies can’t develop talent. That’s why I have always been pro-trading every prospect that gets some shine. They make out in trades. None of their prospects pan out. Carlos Carasco and D’Arnaud (after 1000 chances to make it) are the exceptions. Santana had like 1.5 goodish seasons.
Here is my plan to save the Phillies. Veirling is a good leadoff hitter and not bad defensively hes starting the year in CF. We will be moving Bohm to LF with mccutehn walking. Didi better figure it the heck out at the plate but he will also be learning how to play third base as we are calling Bryson Stott to play short stop then we sign Kris Bryant harpers bestie omg!! Like that ever plays into a signing, anywho We sign bryant and he plays LF, CF, 3B, and first base depending on whos not preforming and then well, DD did make a few bullpen moves and honestly make the same ones bring back Neris, Bradley, and sign a lockdown closer spend a little take a risk on Rothsenthaw and then also bring back kennady as a back up plan if he gets hurt then bring back brad and torreys and jawncowski and the bench should be set and get knapp OFF THE TEAM bring up marchan and what happen to nicky duck lips bring up maton for when didi or jean gets hurt!! oh yeah and we need depth honestly i like matt moore maybe its weird but but hes a good depth starter in my eyes and give mendia a role in the bullpen i love his slider. Yes my english sucks, no thats not the point.
I think Bryant is going to be a giant overpay for whoever signs him. Solid player. Would definitely help the Phillies, but I don’t know if he’s the answer.
He could be a good filler for when didi or bohm under performs, im sort of surprised we havent heard more talk about moving bohm to left field. In all reality they need to sign a middle infeilder and a outfeilder GOOD starter depth and a few bullpen peices, what would be your thought for that. I think we should sign. Desclafani,Graveman, Neris, Bradley and some lefty like jose alverez loved him in philly Not sure if hes a free agent tho. We sign either starling or trade for the other marte and then sign baez. not sure where we would get that money but thats how we turn the phillies good.
@vonpurplehayes
Well Papelbon certainly thought he was a jerk lol
takes one to know one – and I say that as an unapologetic Pap fan.
The Giants success this season even took their FO by surprise.
I’m seeing a bunch of references in the comments to the emulating the Giants success this season. Expecting numerous guys to hit the 90th percentile of their projections isn’t a blueprint, it’s winning the lottery.
Getting paid by the word looks like
Called the .500 Phillies from day 1. I was off by two games but oh well. Bryce Harper seems to make teams worse wherever he ends up.
He came very close to winning MVP. How did he seem to make them worse?
So, I spent some time reading these opinions…The Phillies did compete this year with huge holes..They go into the off season needing a 3rd baseman, shortstop, left fielder and center fielder although, I would be okay with Goofy coming back…For those lamenting how mediocre they were, I’d like to refresh memories here..every year I say the same things. Always starts with arms, arms, arms..If nothing else, I am consistent. Keep in mind, this team had about 37 blown saves…while they won a few of them, that is a number to make a billy goat puke.. Had they won just a few of them, they would have won the East..That might not be a big deal to some, but first is better than second.
This batch of relievers wasn’t the worst they ever had, but no one they’ve brought in for the past 4 or 5 years has panned out. Every year it’s the same thing, they need a revamped bullpen. Starting staff isn’t good enough for the defense they trotted out there.
They also can only afford to target non-pick players like Bryant and Marte. Both of which they could technically afford.
That would solve some defense, lead-off and 4th or 5th spot in the order.
They could trade Bohm or move him to LF. Then its finding a fool for their flailing prospects in a bundle to get some proven MLB talent.
The team has a bit of sunshine…SerAnthony should be back next season..I’d like to see him play some winter ball to get the kinks out. Brogdon showed some promise..I wish Alvarado knew where home plate was..Hector Scare Us finally found his niche which was anywhere but closer…