Major League Baseball’s first work stoppage in more than a quarter-century went into effect last night, with the owners unanimously voting to lock the players out until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached. Each of MLB commissioner Rob Manfred and MLB Players Association director Tony Clark met with the media this morning.
Both Manfred and Clark suggested the other side was primarily to blame for the lack of progress to date. Manfred justified the call to lock out within minutes of the previous CBA’s expiration — a decision the owners weren’t legally bound to make — by indicating the MLBPA hadn’t previously been anxious to move talks along. “People need pressure sometimes to get to an agreement, but candidly we didn’t feel that sense of pressure on the other side during the course of this week,” Manfred told reporters (including John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle).”The only tool available to you under the act is to apply economic leverage.”
Unsurprisingly, Clark pushed back at the assertion the MLBPA had been dallying in negotiations. “From the outset, it seems as if the league has been more interested in the appearance of bargaining than bargaining itself,” Clark claimed (via James Wagner of the New York Times). He also took a swipe at the lengthy “letter to baseball fans” MLB penned in announcing the lockout last night, quipping that “it would have been beneficial to the process to have spent as much time negotiating in the room as it appeared was spent on the letter” (via Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post).
The game’s core economics structure has long been the biggest divide between the parties. Such issues as the service time structure, the number of playoff teams and the competitive balance tax threshold are the particularly strong concerns. Economic discussions have unsurprisingly been the focus of early negotiations, as Manfred said the parties haven’t yet begun to discuss potential on-field rules changes (via Scott Lauber of the Philadelphia Inquirer).
It is generally expected that there’ll be some alterations to the on-field rules. Most around the industry anticipate the introduction of a designated hitter to the National League. Manfred has previously gone on record to voice support for the potential introduction of a pitch clock. Seven-inning doubleheaders and the extra-inning runner of the past two seasons — to date temporary measures — have been topics of debate for fans. It seems those are ancillary negotiation points MLB and the MLBPA will address at a later date, with the broader economic divide the more pressing matter.
It’s not clear when the sides will get back to the table to discuss anything, though. After fairly brief discussions earlier this week seemingly didn’t make much progress, Manfred told reporters this morning no further meetings are currently scheduled (via Evan Drellich of the Athletic). The commissioner added that it was the league’s desire to “get back to the table as quickly as we can.”
The sides will no doubt reconvene at some point, and Manfred again expressed optimism a deal will be reached before the potential loss of any Spring Training or regular season games (via Bob Nightengale of USA Today). That’s a particularly important date for owners, who would first stand to lose revenue in the event of cancellation of games. Manfred has already drawn a clear distinction between an offseason work stoppage and one that threatens play, and we’re still months away from the specter of lost Spring Training revenue.
The players, however, are no doubt less thrilled with the freeze on free agency — and, to a lesser extent, their ability to access team facilities and personnel. While players aren’t in danger of losing salary until games start up, there’s some risk that a shortened transaction window on the eve of the season could leave some players in the cold. There was a flurry of activity before December 1, and the free agent market remained quite strong. Yet the MLBPA has always resisted the possibility of a formal offseason transaction deadline, fearing that teams would have increased leverage to wait players out until the very final stages of free agency in hopes of lowering asking prices.
While the MLBPA has expressed disappointment with the lockout, Clark pushed back against the notion they’ll need to acquiesce to end the transaction freeze quickly. “Players consider (the lockout) unnecessary and provocative,” he said today (Shea link). “The lockout won’t pressure or intimidate players into a deal they don’t believe is fair.“
Millionaires blaming billionaires
Billionaires blaming millionaires.
*Yawn*
I can tell whenever Clark or Manfred is stretching the truth because when they’re being dishonest, their lips move.
Or they send “Dear Baseball Fans” letters to us
oh dear, its like the kids fighting in the back seat on a long car vacation road trip.
“she- he touched me! – he – she touched me first!
Its gonna be daily articles on these two clowns. Looking at their pictures over and over makes me sick.
It is almost funny that they both seem to think that most fans want to hear what they have to say daily. Unless it’s announcing an agreement, most of us don’t want to hear from or see them at all.
I like how everyone gets so emotional about these things. This is just smart business from the owners. You can all keep calling them “billionaires” to demonize them, but you’d do the same thing if labor at your small business demanded crazy raises after you provided a fair wage and assumed all the risk. The players have plenty of money to start their own league and own their own destiny. Go for it! Baseball will be back and we’ll all have the game we love. Chill out and let them negotiate, just like you would if it was your business and your money.
No one is going to go see a new baseball league.
It’s MLB we love. The teams we grew up watching and spent our money going to see. Guys have risked there lives to come into this country to play on a MLB team.
Besides where would they play? Not in any current MLB ballpark. Take a lesson from all the failed Pro Football leagues. They will never be as good the current leagues.
What is your definition of crazy raises? The Players sorely lost the last CBA. The % of revenue going to salary is actually decreasing.
talent has risked their lives to take a early payout from the likes of copella and millions of dollars in signing bonuses.
Horrible, I know.
I have decided…
Oakland Athletics become Las Vegas Vipers
Tampa Bay Rays become Nashville Bandits (“Stars” is not creative)
Charlotte Knights and Portland Thunderbirds are added as expansion franchises
Those sound like crappy names from an old Nintendo game that didn’t wanna pay for an official MLB license.
Lol because “Nashville Stars” and “Portland Lumberjacks” are so much more creative? What do you suggest?
this has nothing to do with the lockout, so who cares.
A major issue is the stability of the Tampa Bay and Oakland franchises.
Nashville Stars was the name of the negro league team I believe. They want that name to pay homage to those athletes. Nashville Stars is a fine name.
I know…but that team only played one season and the name and logo are not creative. Find some other way to honor them.
Portland, Maine I hope. Portland, Oregon doesn’t deserve anything.
Ya could go with the Nashville Hillbillies!! I’ll even go out on a limb and predict the Caucasians won’t even cry about it!!
Portland Beavers or Chinooks, and Raleigh Mustangs or Terrapins.
nashville’s media market is less than million heads.
Did anyone watch Korean baseball on ESPN when they came back before MLB? I’m an MLB fan and while little league is cute, I don’t watch college or the minor leagues when they’re on.
Yes, would watch it while working night shift, honestly not bad content.
Everyone involved in this can go screw.
tbh -… and I I though I don’t support MLB in this – the MLBPA has definitely not come to the table with a solid game plan or a solid proposal – if they did it would help to point out how stubborn the MLB is being in not negotiating
I think that’s because mlb is doing more attempts at negotiating than the mlbpa is…
when the “negotiating” is based on non starters by the MLB it’s not hard to see why the MLBPA doesn’t seem to want to negotiate
i mean we saw this during the 2020 COVID negotiations. The Players just kept saying no to everything with no counter offer, or their counter offers were ridiculous
yeah see i generally side with the players and even in this instance I don’t sign with the league but you hit the nail on the head that they have n’t lined out and said we want x, y, and z – it is just a vague group of goals and then when the league comes in with a bad idea they come in with a different bad idea to counter it.
Yes they have but they are not telling to the media… why not? for the same reason you don’t show your hand while you play poker.
mlb threw out trash proposals no sane person would take seriously.
It will take awhile before the two sides agree to sit down and talk let alone decide anything. You get very little movement towards any agreement when both sides think they are in the right. Look at Congress.
Speaking of Congress, it’s time they pulled MLB’s antitrust exemption. Just the threat of jerking the exemption would get the owners back to the bargaining table post haste. Don’t believe me? Over the summer with the minor league players situation with the A’s and the Angels making the news there was also three Senators who introduced a bill to pull the antitrust exemption and this time they had bi-partisan support. All of a sudden in late summer 2021 MLB increased minor league salaries and provided players with housing. Do you think the MLB teams who have known for years what the minor league players were going through all of a sudden did this out of the goodness of their hearts? Connect the dots. While we are at it, teams should open their books.
Of course the MLBPA has been dallying. I don’t blame them.
The Union wants to stall until their striking cost the owners the most dollars and the owners want to lockout when it cost the owners the least.
The Union may be right about a number of things, but when they complain about the lockout, they lose credibility.
? The MLBPA didn’t strike the owners initiated the lockout.
Is English a second language. You should read it again. Slowly if you have to.
What words are you having an issue with.
These two guys are the worst thing for the game. I dislike them equally.
How about instead of a lockout, we have a lock in – as in lock the sides in a room and don’t let them out until there is an agreement!
What if the owners play the lowest paid players in the game in a best-of-seven series? Then the winners get their way with the CBA.
What if the owners had to play the lowest paid players and the mlbpa had to play the highest paid. If the lowest paid players win they get the highest salary but the owners get the cba they want. How fast would the mlbpa decline this too.
The only food would be from Taco Bell! It would be settled in a week.
They are playing the blame game with each other but it is pretty clear that both are puppets with puppeteers that are internally not aligned. I think there is a divided house with the owners that Manfred is trying to appease while the MLBPA is presenting their Christmas list poorly.
Could they just start a new league with no rob manfred
It will have to be a Southern league so we can have winter baseball.
Atlanta
Charlotte
Raleigh
Nashville
Memphis
Columbia
Birmingham
New Orleans
Jacksonville
Orlando
Tampa Bay
Miami
And no analytics either
How to say I’m a idiot without saying im a idiot
Analytics have been around in various forms since the game started. Why do you think batting average, RBI, etc. exist? They’re early attempts at analyzing the game.
Owners have looking for a fight, and now they’ve got one. Been a fan since before the 1981 strike. Players have done a lot over the past 26 years to be more conciliatory than they were prior to 1994. Players have been more fan-friendly and fan-accessible than I recall before 1994. Playing games with service time and the appearance of collusion in some cases have eroded the trust that once existed. I hope that the players get what they feel is fair.
As crazy as the money is, most of them don’t get that kind of money (i.e. Mike Trout, Max Scherzer money).. The money most players make in baseball is the most they’ll make over their lifetime, and they have a right to bargain for the best deal they can get.
Finally someone with some sense.
Both sides seem intent on ruining the game. Look at how they couldn’t even work together on a game plan last year until the last moment. Both sides are pathetic and I hope we see a repeat of the fan apathy we saw after the 1994 strike/lockout. The game if baseball is not like it once was and I’m ok if they cancel the 2022 season. Go for it owners and players. I learned last season, its possible to have a life without sports.
Fans are just scum on their shoe tops. I know now why two very good friends of mine no longer watch MLB after 94.
1994 seems to be a distant memory and that is foolish on both groups. Baseball is NOT the national pastime anymore and coming off Covid, they better not push it. They may not come back as last time.
Last time they needed steroids and McGwire and Sosa to restore excitement.
The owners think there will be a 2022 season or we would not have seen the recent flurry of free agent signings. Will the season maybe be delayed a few weeks, maybe, but I am not too worried. Besides I know that neither the owners nor the players have the fans best interests in mind.
How many fans have the owners’ or players’ best interests in mind?
We fans like to complain about them being selfish and not caring about our interests, but isn’t that being selfish?
I think a lot of fans know that minor league players get shafted and want a system that is better for them. But if you can’t make ends meet on one million per year, then my sympathy is better allocated elsewhere.
Manfred is bad but he’s right as far as leverage. Clark is an absolute clown. He handled the 2020 season negotiations poorly and is out of his league when it comes to negotiations. Please step down and let people who actually know what they’re doing for the sake of the league.
The players union has an attorney who does most of the negotiations, Clark does the PR.
Neither Clark or Manfred are conducting the negotiations. They are merely the spokesmen.
The MLBPA hired a skilled labor negotiator after the last CBA and he is handling these negotiations. Clark is simply the face and voice, it the real work is not being done by him. That’s why we have a lockout. The players under the new negotiator are finally playing hardball again.
Better get this done before games start to be cancelled. As a fan I hope people do like they did following the 1994 lockout. Dont go to thw games. Then the billionaires and millionaires get hurt where it matters most, in their wallet. Afterall, thats all they care about. They dont care about the fans,and all the little people that help for a baseball game go smoothly
Tv money is where the majority of their money comes from
Sorry to say they both know fans will be back no matter how much they screw them and then a generational change will happen and you will hear the sound of crickets where the great game of baseball once sounded.
And then it will be to late…
maybe they should sit down and discuss it with each other like normal people have to, instead of avoiding solving the problem and taking shots at the other side through the media.
The MLBPA should have ousted Clark during the whole covid crap.
All they had to do was throw Tony Clark a curveball – that would have gotten him out.
Honestly screw all of these people. They should be at the table right now and not leaving until something gets hammered out.
A lockout is grossly unacceptable and I can’t believe either side allowed this to happen. “Fair value” is arbitrary. They should just hire a mediator to help out and get to grinding out a new CBA.
I don’t have any sympathy for either side. No matter what the agreement is, the fans are the ones that ultimately pay for it. They need to have a little sympathy for us.
Here is my proposal,
-Hard cap on salaries
-Hard cap on spending for rest of organization
-Fair profit rate for owners fixed at inflation plus n
-Higher minimum wage for players
-Much higher wage for minor leaguers
-All excess moneys given to the fans in less expensive tickets and lower beer prices.
Now back to reality where none of that will happen
You’re kidding, right? I knew I should not have included lower beer prices.
The reality I see is MLB and MLBPA are helping a declining sport decline faster and either are oblivious to the consequences of their actions or don’t care.. The eventual new CBA will not address any of the problems the sport faces and will only serve to enrich those who need it the least. It is also hard to feel any sympathy for the owners or the players when a rookie makes ten times the average starting salary of a teacher in Arizona, where I live, and some “stars” make almost a thousand times more. If you don’t like teachers, do the comparison to police, almost as bad.
Can Mrs. Castillo in the Science Pod hit a Lance Lynn cutty with 2 strikes on her? There’s no TV deal in place for her 4th period class…
If there’s 2 shortened seasons within a 3 year period, more fans will abandon the sport… Please fix this
I guess it’s time for MLB Europe.
Barcelona
Madrid
London
Rome
Paris
Berlin
Gunna become 96-team MLB soon
I want a team in Stockholm – No dome. Late October and early April games will be brutal.
If we’re covering all continents…
London Werewolves
Zimbabwe Zebras
Halifax Demon Ducks
Peru Howler Monkeys
Siberia Space Dogs
Buenos Aires Vampire Bats
Seoul Shadow Beasts
Guam Ghosts
Melbourne Pythons
Auckland Whales
Auckland Kiwis
Whichever…but we still need teams for Egypt and the Congo.
Also, I forgot about the Sao Paulo Dart Frogs.
London Warewolves we’re a team in the 90’s in the IBL
Trademarking the “Stockholm Syndrome” as a team name now…
…….and people who work at Ama*on are cheering for a $15 an hour pay rate as they send out MLB products!!!!
G.o.a.t.
Shutting down a sport whose average fan age is 58.
Smart.
The owners do not seem to have a clear position so here is a suggestion.
1. Salary cap stays where it is with an escalator tied to inflation and a maximum of 5 per cent a year.
2. Maximum salary of 35 million for any player and a maximum guarantee of five years. Any years beyond that must be mutual option between team and player.
3. Players clock towards free agency starts three years after they are in the minors.
4. Increase the minimum salary at the major league level to 1 million.
Let me add one thing to make it a level playing field on both sides, how about a maximum profit amount a team can make?
Why on earth what the Yankees and dodgers other big markets agree to it?
Sarcasm
the maximum salary is the biggest point. Since 80 per cent of the players are underpaid and it is the Trout’s etc. that are taking too big a piece of the pie. The myth that owners are making huge profits with massive TV contracts is a laugh. The real value of a team is if you are willing to sell it and then it is only large market teams. No one would be lining up to buy the Pirates or the Rockies.
What? No billionaire would be interested in buying the Pirates or Rockies? They are monopolies, whose value only goes up due to the fact that there will never be anymore unless they too are paid huge expansion fees in the process.
Someone publicly states they want to buy the Pirates every 3 or 4 years including this summer. Nutting always refuses to sell.
I’m for the players getting whatever they can get. Owners get richer when the value of their team goes up plus any profit they make each year. Every owner is swimming in money and many of the players are not.
I’m pretty sure most of the people posting here like having the ability to work for whoever gives them the “best offer”. Players don’t get that option until free agency.
MLBPA has made big concessions (or are terrible negotiators?) over the years. A fair arrangement would have had the luxury threshold rising in sync with the increase in revenues. mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/how-the-mlb-luxury-tax-…
I don’t know; I think a guaranteed contract paying me more than 10x what John Q. Public makes to play a game would be high on my list.
So many silly comments here it shows me what the owners think in regards to this CBA negotiations. There is plenty of blame for owners and players in not being near each other in regards to how the leagues should be run including compensation.
It is past time for the owners to open the books and show the actual losses in 2020 & 2021 as well as precious record breaking years leading into the pandemic. It is past time for players to embrace a top and bottom payroll threshold.
Can we just get to February already. The next 2 months of sound bites is going to be annoying.
Oh to own a DeLorean that flies……
clarke needs to redeem his shoddy work on the last CBA and the players mistrust the other side much more than they did 5 years ago. this will get ugly
Well, Mr. Dierkes and company — this should up the traffic on your website, because, really, who wants to spend any time looking at the nothingburger now being featured at mlb.com?
You make the MLB and MLBPA agree to a binding arbitration settled upon by a panel/group consisting of Ken Burns, George Will, one fan each in their 20’s , 30’s, 40’s and 50’s, two retired MLB players each (one pitcher, one batter) from the 20’s, 10’s, 00’s, and 90’s, and a good ‘money/financial’ guy. That’s a pool of 15 people who would sit down and “fix baseball” to the best of their abiility in all or whatever areas they deem fit and everyone would have to be willing to accept the results. Obviously, there would need to be a basic framework and limitations in place up front, but it would be interesting to see what they came up with.
In the meantime, the MLB players will play the NHL players in a game of basketball.
And just to make sure ownership is negotiating in earnest we, as fans, should unite and implement a moratorium on MLB merchandise and ticket purchases until a CBA is in place.
All I read on both sides was blah, blah,blah, waw, waw,waw, waw. “School Teacher from Peanuts cartoons”. Pointing fingers a each other like some kids. SMH. No side will get everything they want, Compromise and let’s get back to hot stove rumors. I hate the offseason. Stopped watching the NBA in the 90’s early 2000’s, NFL to me has lost its magic when dudes cared more about their “Tic Toc” pregame streams than winning games. Heck you got players questioning how the coach conducts practice in Pittsburgh. Baseball is a game of physical and mental endurance. You fail 70% off the time and that’s for the elite players. Nothing like it.
Two fools arguing is worse than anything except two fools who are also incompetent, which is worse than anything except two fools who are incompetent and also impossibly arrogant.
And that, friends and neighbors, is what we are watching right now.
The game of baseball is wayyy bigger than any of these douchers. From stick ball to MiLB, MLB is just a subset of the baseball universe.
Manfred: stop ruining our beloved game. Focus more on getting a quality product on the field rather than shaving 2 minutes off each game.
Manfred, go fukc up hockey. We’re done here.
All I can say for sure is that the game will be worse when they’re done “negotiating”. They should be locked into a room with Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and have to listen to the two of them blather on nonstop until they reach an agreement. Sadly, I don’t see a quick resolution. I’m not even sure either side can concisely articulate what they want. The owners are on different pages depending on their available resources and could care less about helping each other. The players have sort of a parallel dichotomy of elite vs. non-elite. The fans may have an idea of what they’d like to see but we can’t predict the consequences of any actions that are taken going forward. So, I just keep my mask on and stay away from stupid people. Because nothing really changes. Sadly.
The owners and PA are as divided as our country it seems. Maybe they should battle it out on Twitter, but no memes!
Well played
They sound like politicians, not a good start… (ugh)
Well at least we will have MILB in April. Has Vegas put out odds on MLB season length yet? I’m guessing we will have exactly 1/2 of a normal season at 81 games.
In a moment of relative maturity, Rob Manfred called Tony Clark “a giant poo-poo head.” Clark fired back, “I’m rubber, you’re glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.” Talks quickly deteriorated from there.
Get new players now so they will be ready to go for spring training. I can care less who the players are. When someone gets traded from my team I don’t stop rooting for that team and root for that players team. I like college football and there is new players every 3 or 4 years. Scherzer can go make 40 million a year doing something else if he doesn’t want to cross the line.
Replacement players, really?
For sure. The current players will cross. If not oh well. Couple of years there will be all new stars. Not even. During the lockdown people watched Doosan vs Samsung. Red sox Yankees will be fine. What else are people going to do? A nice chunk of fans don’t watch NHL NBA. And there are months when baseball is only major us sport around. And 99 point some percent of mlb players aren’t going to make more money anywhere else. Pirates Rays etc can get DR highschool and college kids. NY La Chi can buy the best Korea Japan players.
These guys should do what they did last time and do biz under the current deal until they figure it out. That worked out good. Granted, they were much closer than they are this time though.
Hard salary floor and hard cap. Problem solved…
For instance. $100M floor, $200M luxury tax and $250M hard cap.
Except for the problem that the players will never accept a hard cap.
Then they can enjoy not playing baseball.
Heck yes. I don’t care about the owners getting richer but with all sports where else are most players going to make that much? You really don’t have to pay them more than a hundred grand. Maybe a million for some. Not many mlb players could play in NFL NHl NBA etc.
The real problem with the “negotiations” is that they left out the third party, the fans. As it is, both parties will say they are representing the fans when, in fact, they really aren’t.
“world’s” financial system: Get as much as you can.
God’s Financial System: Give & it shall be given unto you, pressed down, shaken together & overflowing.
Maybe they can work in not having to take out a small loan for a jersey or a good seat or some food or a beer in the parks. I guess i wouldnt care if i was out of touch with the fans economically so much that they think i care how many millions each deserve. To the players i would say we all work for someone who makes more money and all major leaguers are paid well. To the owners i would say if you cant afford to create a team that can compete please sell the team so We as fans can enjoy it more.
We should form a union.
If every fan tied buying tickets ( + parking, concessions, etc) and merch to a set of negotiated agreements, then owners and players would both be motivated.
Lol he said she said garbage leading to a lockout! Like none of them can’t afford it. Who cares at this point.
Manfred: “Mom, Tony’s looking at me….”
Clark: “Nuh uh, He’s looking at ME!”
Mom: “Boys… please stop…”
Clark: “Mom! Rob touched me!”
Manfred: “NO! You touched me!”
Mom: (Rolls eyes….)
In ’20, these two didn’t like how things were handled when the other spoke through the media…. Welp, looks like they haven’t changed. I understand you want to put on a good face/front so the fans don’t “hate” you, but if you want to do “right,” go sit in an office for a few weeks/months and figure it out. Grow a set, sit down and solve problems the way there were supposed to be solved. You’re not middle schoolers who need to argue through text/social media. Get. It. Done. and then talk to us when it’s over.
75 days from Spring Training starting
Manfred: “[lies lies lies lies lies lies]”
Clark: “Wrong! [lies lies lies lies lies lies]”
As we know, both sides are to blame for this mess. However, when I read and then listened to Commissioner Rob Manfred’s statements, I was insulted. Owners were NOT forced to commence a lockout of the players, they unanimously voted for it! Then he says their doing this for the fans! Hell No! You represent the owners and are fighting for them! Period!
Both sides need to figure something out and come out with an acceptable solution one way or another! And the sooner the better!
Let’s get back to all baseball activities!!!
Both parties need to learn a harsh lesson. If their stubbornness, greed and bad faith tactics lead to a strike in 2022, I say good. Let them then suffer severe economic consequences. Hopefully that will wake them up and facilitate an atmosphere of compromise.
Should be interesting, not very optimistic however
I certainly hope they find an agreement soon. The country is immersed in an economic crisis and this prima-donnas are fighting over who takes more millions. If there is a stoppage of games of any kind, I am done with baseball forever! There are many other sports in which to spend your hard earned dollars than on a bunch of spoiled brats!
I certainly hope they find an agreement soon. The country is immersed in an economic crisis and these prima-donnas are fighting over who takes more millions. If there is a stoppage of games of any kind, I am done with baseball forever!
Both sides are dysfunctional
The minimum salaries are a joke for players. They need to be raised. If you make the show you should be getting at least 1 million a year. Owners own players and control their salaries through their productive seasons. You should have to wait until your 30 to hit free agency. Most of the players got a signing bonus and crappy minor league pay. Quit paying 35 year old pitchers 25 plus million a year and make it right.
The only problem with your assertion is that all of these increases are going to come from somewhere. The owners are not going to lose money. Just like when minimum wage increases by demand, it adversely affects those customers who purchase the product or the employees in some other way.
I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t, just speaking to the natural consequences of doing it.
I’m glad you feel like paying more for a ticket to see a game, and the hot dogs, beer, et al. You go, kid, ’cause it’s not expensive enough!!!
Neither can be trusted. Neither have or will utter a word in good faith. Neither care a damn about the sport.
We can’t know how or when this will end, but there are things we do know without a shadow of a doubt:
-The players will keep on being millionaires.
-The owners will keep on being billionaires.
-Whatever the new CBA looks like, it’ll be great for profitability on both sides.
-Whatever the new CBA looks like, it’ll be objectively horrible for the quality and future of the sport.
-Fan interest will continue to decrease at a rapid rate.
Manfred should be relegated to only speaking about money issues on the owners behalf and not be called the commissioner of baseball. We should give that title to good ol Timmy Kurkjin who can be the rules gatekeeper of our favorite sport, along with giving the fans a figurehead that we know loves the game.
A guy can dream can’t he? 🙁
I didn’t read the article. I don’t care what Clark and Manfred have to say. Just get it done.
They’re locking them out to prevent a strike so they can control that narrative.
I really don’t have a complaint with the players. They just want to hit FA sooner so service time is one of the big issues. Don’t manipulate it. College drafted players or players over a certain age shouldn’t be controlled for 6 years.
Leaving a guy in the minors who is ready for the majors is another issue.
Tanking for draft picks is another. That’s crap for the game.
Arbitration is crap. So if Mets pay $43 Mil for pitcher every agent points to that as a new standard for every pitcher?
The market is what someone will pay not some bs measure against what another player received.
Artie signed Trout to the dumbest contract ever. He’ll be hurt or decline for about 1/3rd of it.
So if players hit FA earlier why should a team develop a good farm system?
How are small market teams going to survive if they develop a young player and he hits FA earlier and is gone to a big market team?
The players in MLB have contracts where the money is guaranteed; not the case for football where the chance of injury is far greater and the average career length is orders of magnitude lower.
And the players playoff proposal where everyone makes it in?
Why not hand out the participation awards; like everything else it waters down the game to a boring nothing
How about you all stop messing with OUR game, put the game back to the way it was, ya know, when real men played it, deal with your “economic issues”, and get back to doing your job!!! 7 inning doubleheader, and runner at second to start the inning in extras, 3 batter minimum all need to go. You are taking all the strategic interests out of the game. And I swear, if you guys miss one game due to this, I’m not coming back this time. I’ll watch college softball.
FWIW, players’ share of MLB revenue has been declining for years especially under the current contract. It may not seem possible given the rise in payrolls, but revenue like TV/radio has probably risen at a faster rate. (And there is a new, even more lucrative, broadcast contract around the corner.) Plus, owners putting millions into developments around parks like Wrigley or Fenway are not sharing those profits with the players. (Nobody said they had to.) Right now, a lot of posturing on both sides so this will go on for awhile.
Disgusting that it even gets to this point. With Manfred and the PA doing the negotiating, not a lot of confidence is inspired in average fans like myself.. Just like politics has no business in sports, neither do team / player finances have any business in disrupting the game for fans. With even a glimmer of leadership on either – or both sides – it should not have come to this. Its failure by both, so both need to give for a solution. From all I’m reading there’s plenty of room to give by both sides if excessive greed and self-centeredness will be put aside .
Well let’s just say goodbye to major league baseball. I’ve had enough of them.
When Manfred speaks, I hit mute.
Dollar figures aside, the players’ share of the overall revenue has declined over the year so they are slightly less greedy.
How about a salary floor as well as a HARD max cap. Less than 10 teams are actively pursuing the best players and therefore the best chance of winning. It also doesn’t take much to treat the minor leaguers much better.
As for me I was disgusted by the 1994-95 lockout and went from attending 5-10 games per year to attending just 3 in the 21st century total (one of which was a company comp). Not interested in their issues.
I can solve most of the problems being debated in this labor dispute with two simple moves.
1) A reasonable salary floor … The owners and players can debate/negotiate what’s “reasonable.”
2) A restructuring of the draft that reverses the order to give first pick to the non-playoff qualifier with the best record.
The first change forces owners to maintain a roster of competent major league players. The second incentivizes competition and free agent spending, while eliminating all motivation behind baseball tanking plague. It would also promote parity as teams rolled into and out of their competitive windows and the playoffs.
This really isn’t nearly as difficult as either side is making it. If you want fans to come to/watch your games and players to get paid, promote and incentivize competition.
I like that. I don’t even think you need a salary floor. Now 5 more wins means something.
If that’s the only thing the players wanted, then you are right. Easy solution.
But they also want to change the way arbitration and fee agency work.
They want all three and that’s never going to happen.
My proposal wouldn’t solve everything or make everyone happy, but it would improve the game, the fan experience and ultimately the bottom line for both owners and players.
If teams were rewarded for competing to the end, every fan in baseball would have a reason to watch in September. And all teams would have inventive to improve their teams and standing in the winter.
The one unintended consequence I can think of is that it would impact seller trades, but you’d still have teams value other teams’ prospects over their draft placement.
I’m sure there would be other bugs arise as well. But this would effectively end tanking by punishing teams that aren’t even trying to compete.
Forgive my ignorance, but I assume teams can still look for managers/coaching staff. Is this correct? Seems like a good time for teams like the Mets to fill out their staff.
I am not a fan of “kicking the can down the road” but after the 2020 shortened pandemic season couldn’t they both have agreed to extend the present now expired CBA for 1 or 2 years as a gesture to us fans?
And then deal with this later just to give everyone some time to heal and distract our lives with this entertainment.
I hope I am reading the players playoff proposal wrong; almost everyone makes the playoffs?
Why play 162 games? Why play 62 game regular season?
Or just sit your starting pitchers half the year and get into the playoffs.
Secondly if players reach FA faster how are small teams or teams that have a good farm system going to benefit?
The fact that they couldn’t get on the field in a timely and peaceable manner during the pandemic season would suggest they’re not particularly interested in goodwill gestures to the fans.
I’ll never understand why some fans pick sides in these disputes. Neither cares a lick about us beyond what we can add to their gate revenue/paychecks.
They need to cut more minor league levels out. Get players to the majors faster and they will reach free agency faster. The cream always rises. Let the boys play!!! Too many players wasting too many years trying to perfect their trade on the minors. Bring them up and let them sink or swim
The owners and players should bring in Jared Kushner to mediate. If he could he could get the UAE and Bahrain to normalize relations with Israel, MAYBE he could get MLB owners and players to agree not to destroy baseball.
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You are joking right? Thanks for the laugh.
That is about as likely as Jared the convict from hoagie commercials.
For those who still don’t understand, Manfred speaks for the owners. He’s not a free agent.
And the Lorax speaks for the trees, but he still has an axe to grind.
My best guess: Both sides will posture for a while, and eventually the owners will get MUCH more of what they want than the players. If MLB were to dissolve tomorrow, pretty much every owner has plenty of money and other business interests to sustain them. What else can the players do? There are limited spots available overseas, they won’t make anywhere near the money, the skill set doesn’t translate well to real life and they have a relatively short window in which to earn. The owners will mostly get their way at some point, both sides will release meek conciliatory statements and both sides will then continue to harvest money.
I hope the lockout drags on and leads to the cancellation of the entire season. I was a Tigers season ticket holder for 20 years and today I could care less about the game. First, today’s product is horrible with the total domination of the game by home runs and strike outs. It is boring and nearly all the subtleties of the game are gone. Baseball has become a good cure for insomnia. Then there’s the greed. It’s beyond ridiculous how many guys are being given over 15 million dollars a year and they don’t even deliver results. It’s pathetic and absurd. Then there’s the issue of so few Americans in the game. It’s depressing I feel like I am watching some league in Venezuela. Baseball has become a joke IMO. It was once a great game but no longer. Hopefully they don’t reach an agreement and give us a break from it for awhile.
I am curious, if you could care less why take the effort to come here ( psst a baseball site ) to say you could care less .
That was not the focus of my commentary but personal attacks appear to be the focus of yours.
I was asking why you commented if you care less that is hardly a personal attack. That thin skinned?
Why do you want Americans (P.S. Venezuela is in South America) rather than just the best players? The salaries get taxed.
While both sides deserve some blame for this, the Owners are 100% to blame on one aspect of these negotiations: the competitive balance tax threshold.
The Owners have not increased the competitive balance tax threshold to keep up with inflation or the rise in player salaries. They’ve willfully & disingenuously done this to create a de facto salary cap.
I read an article sometime ago that if the competitive balance tax threshold had kept pace with inflation, the first threshold would be about $250 million now. The players have every right to complain about the competitive balance tax threshold being kept artificially low by the owners.
The starting point for the competitive balance tax threshold should be $250 million dollars now & future increases should be tied directly to either 1) inflation or 2) increases in MLB revenues.
It’s easy for fans, like myself, to get upset about men making millions to play a game we love to play for nothing, BUT why should the Owners get to make more & more of the money we pay, when NONE of us would pay one penny to watch the Owners?
It’s perfectly reasonable that the players — including MiLB players — should get at least 75% of the profits from the game because NONE OF US would pay one penny to watch the owners do anything. The Players are The Product, NOT the owners, so the players deserve the lion’s share of the profits.
You must be off your rocker. The guy who is taking all the financial risk only gets 25% of the profit? No business owner would agree to that. Not one that wants to be in business for long anyway.
You either never worked in a Big Corporation, Jdt8312, or you weren’t paying very close attention to their P&L statements.
There isn’t a Big Corporation in the U.S. that would turn its nose up to a guaranteed profit of 25% a year. (Btw, I worked in the Financial/Investing field for almost 20 years.)
Ask yourself this, Jdt8312, if your Bank or Broker offered you a 25% return every year, would you say, “No, that’s not enough of a return on my money”? Of course you wouldn’t!
Players have anywhere from 1 year to 20 years (if they’re damn lucky) to make their money. Owners can continue to make money for Decades!
You are in the financial services for 20 years? On an investment of say 2 billion what is 25% of that? ROI .
So the Avg team could take 500m in profits before paying the players?
You do know that a 25% net profit on say 400m in revenue is 100m? Now 100m is a ROI of 5% not 25. Lot’s of places these guys could invest 2b and make more then 5% return.
Love how guys come on here saying they are ” experts” in a certain field and really have no idea what they are talking about.
If you work jn the investment field I am so glad I am not one of your clients. Seriously guy- go read up on ROI .
You either NO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about returns on investing or you’re just being disingenuous.
NO ONE expects to make 25% a Year on a Billion dollars. Only a fool would think that was possible. Btw, profit is calculated AFTER deducting for all expenses, including player salaries.
I was OBVIOUSLY referring to the YEARLY profits earned by each team.
It’s amazing how gullible some fans are. If the owners weren’t making big bucks, they would Open Their Books to the press & show them that they’re loosing money. But they haven’t done that, have they?
If the owners were really hurting, they’d jump at the chance to prove it in the press.
better be careful not to cut your own throats… baseball is not the most popular sport anymore already
Millions of fans have ditched the game due to the ways it’s changed, the greed, and the fact it can put you to sleep if you watch it for too long.
If the league is smart, there is plenty of room to increase MLB global tv revenue.