Major League Baseball’s first work stoppage in more than a quarter-century went into effect last night, with the owners unanimously voting to lock the players out until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached. Each of MLB commissioner Rob Manfred and MLB Players Association director Tony Clark met with the media this morning.
Both Manfred and Clark suggested the other side was primarily to blame for the lack of progress to date. Manfred justified the call to lock out within minutes of the previous CBA’s expiration — a decision the owners weren’t legally bound to make — by indicating the MLBPA hadn’t previously been anxious to move talks along. “People need pressure sometimes to get to an agreement, but candidly we didn’t feel that sense of pressure on the other side during the course of this week,” Manfred told reporters (including John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle).”The only tool available to you under the act is to apply economic leverage.”
Unsurprisingly, Clark pushed back at the assertion the MLBPA had been dallying in negotiations. “From the outset, it seems as if the league has been more interested in the appearance of bargaining than bargaining itself,” Clark claimed (via James Wagner of the New York Times). He also took a swipe at the lengthy “letter to baseball fans” MLB penned in announcing the lockout last night, quipping that “it would have been beneficial to the process to have spent as much time negotiating in the room as it appeared was spent on the letter” (via Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post).
The game’s core economics structure has long been the biggest divide between the parties. Such issues as the service time structure, the number of playoff teams and the competitive balance tax threshold are the particularly strong concerns. Economic discussions have unsurprisingly been the focus of early negotiations, as Manfred said the parties haven’t yet begun to discuss potential on-field rules changes (via Scott Lauber of the Philadelphia Inquirer).
It is generally expected that there’ll be some alterations to the on-field rules. Most around the industry anticipate the introduction of a designated hitter to the National League. Manfred has previously gone on record to voice support for the potential introduction of a pitch clock. Seven-inning doubleheaders and the extra-inning runner of the past two seasons — to date temporary measures — have been topics of debate for fans. It seems those are ancillary negotiation points MLB and the MLBPA will address at a later date, with the broader economic divide the more pressing matter.
It’s not clear when the sides will get back to the table to discuss anything, though. After fairly brief discussions earlier this week seemingly didn’t make much progress, Manfred told reporters this morning no further meetings are currently scheduled (via Evan Drellich of the Athletic). The commissioner added that it was the league’s desire to “get back to the table as quickly as we can.”
The sides will no doubt reconvene at some point, and Manfred again expressed optimism a deal will be reached before the potential loss of any Spring Training or regular season games (via Bob Nightengale of USA Today). That’s a particularly important date for owners, who would first stand to lose revenue in the event of cancellation of games. Manfred has already drawn a clear distinction between an offseason work stoppage and one that threatens play, and we’re still months away from the specter of lost Spring Training revenue.
The players, however, are no doubt less thrilled with the freeze on free agency — and, to a lesser extent, their ability to access team facilities and personnel. While players aren’t in danger of losing salary until games start up, there’s some risk that a shortened transaction window on the eve of the season could leave some players in the cold. There was a flurry of activity before December 1, and the free agent market remained quite strong. Yet the MLBPA has always resisted the possibility of a formal offseason transaction deadline, fearing that teams would have increased leverage to wait players out until the very final stages of free agency in hopes of lowering asking prices.
While the MLBPA has expressed disappointment with the lockout, Clark pushed back against the notion they’ll need to acquiesce to end the transaction freeze quickly. “Players consider (the lockout) unnecessary and provocative,” he said today (Shea link). “The lockout won’t pressure or intimidate players into a deal they don’t believe is fair.“
Millionaires blaming billionaires
Billionaires blaming millionaires.
*Yawn*
Billionaires pay the millionaires
Fans pay both….and fans get screwed…greed on both sides
The other group that gets screwed are the largest group of professional baseball players in the country, minor league players. A handful got huge signing bonuses but most don’t. Neither the owners nor the players seem to care much about this group that feed the pipeline.
@brewers, the lockout doesn’t effect the minor leaguers. In fact, the aaa phase of the rule 5 draft is scheduled to go ahead as normal.
I’m not saying they are impacted by the lockout. I’m saying millionaires are arguing with billionaires and neither gives a darn about this group. Owners rely on minor leaguers to feed the machine and MLB players had to suffer through the minors. The average minor league player makes less than $15K annually, which is ridiculous given the revenues that MLB owners make and the salaries of major leaguers. It wouldn’t take a lot to make a dramatic difference for minor league players but the owners and players are too greedy to even consider driving change for this group that they both should care about.
It would cost baseball $300 million to give the minor leaguers an average $50K salary plus benefits. That is the combined total for the 6 teams with the lowest player payroll. The owners cannot afford it. The MLBPA doesn’t want to share their salary and benefits with these kids. They have pension benefits, lifetime healthcare and huge salaries for free agents and arb eligible players. That would all change and they know it. The average MLB salary is $4 million. These kids would want representation within MLBPA and more money would flow to them rather than the Scherzer’s of the game as changes would be made to the CBA over time.
.
$300mil is only $10mil a team. Every owner can afford a $10mil minimum spending increase.
Increasing payroll by over 10 percent is a big deal of major league payroll is a big deal. The minor leagues don’t pay for themselves. The owners only make money on very few of theses guys early in their careers, the players want to shorten that earning potential and want expenses to skyrocket?
@Ghost of Ben the MLB players do not have any say to where they go or what their pay is. The league favors the owners and does little for the players. 2020 short season showed that. Many minor league players had nothing in their pockets. Owners cared more about money than their “investment”. I honestly believe the players are not being treated fairly and held down in the minors for way to long. I also believe owners misuse the “profit sharing”. It was meant to boost clubs payroll and it hasn’t even done that. Low market teams are decreasing payroll each year to just under 10 million per year the last 4 years. Some Big Market teams are not going on a spending spree every year like they use too. They stay under the luxury tax. So, something is broken and needs addressed properly. I believe the owners are more guilty of this lockout than the players. I didn’t think I’d see ‘94-95 strike/lockout happen again. I guess I was wrong and already withholding any idea of watching a live game at the park next year. I seriously considered go to watch the Mets or going to Cleveland to watch a game. I’d like to see the old Jacobs field. I have drove past it many of times while traveling. But, I think this lockout will result in a strike and the season will be effected by it. Potentially no World Series in nearly 30 years
No innocents here, this is a slightly more civil version of “smash & grab” with the fans left holding an empty bag. What a shame, BB didn’t need this in these tough times.
@PiratesFan1981 players making millions but not treated fairly? Okay.
Both sides should have just extended the current CBA for 1 more year, because of the pandemic. A no brainer, for the fans & for the game.
@pwndroia
You realize the millionaires have a ticking clock on their career right? One bad year and the best they’ll get are minor league deals.
Billionaire owners can sit back, barely invest anything relative to their own worth, and never risk losing their club.
One side has no risk while the other is gambling with their livelihoods. That’s practically the definition of unfair.
Except that fans have the power to stop going to the games and stop spending their money
If this work stoppage extends into the season, you will see fans exercise that power, just as they did after the strike in the 90s.
These idiots (owners and players) have to know that a similar situation would do irreparable damage to their support … And ultimately their bottom lines. That this knowledge hasn’t added any urgency to reach a labor agreement in a timely and discreet manner proves neither side cares about the long-tem health of baseball or the fans that make their silly revenues/salaries possible.
Im sure the owners would play under the current CBA in a heartbeat.
The players are asking for the Earth, moon and the stars. The need to pick one, arbitration, free agency or team salary floor.
With the players making so many demands, it will never be resolved. If the owners capitulate on one, that’s a major accomplishment.
Usually it’s the other way around. The owners are typically the ones demanding changes.
The one thing that I would like to see changed is the guaranteed contract. There are so many instances of guys tanking and still owed millions. Here in Seattle, we gave Chone Figgins like $36 million over 4 years. He had one mediocre year and really sucked the rest of the deal. Chris Davis is the latest and maybe worst example. And I must say that I don’t know the answer. But I bet some of you have some interesting ideas. I don’t blame the players association for loving that part of their gravy train but as a fan, I hated buying $12.00 beers knowing I was supporting the likes of Chone Figgins as he sat on the bench with a smirk on his grossly overpaid face his last few seasons.
So wait so the team gets a Mulligan for being incompetent by signing guys that don’t deserve it ??? So teams are not supposed to hold any responsibility for bad management
@BPax Don’t give Chone Figgins 4/36 in the first place. Simple. No one forced Seattle to offer it – they chose to.
Besides, taking away guaranteed money and tying money to production simply won’t work, unless the Owners are going to tie that money to the underpaid players as well. For every player that earns a bundle and isn’t worth it, there are 5 that don’t earn a bundle and are worth far more. Are the Owners going to pay them more? Absolutely not.
Anyway – Chone Figgins isn’t the reason you’re paying $12 for beer. You’re paying $12 for beer because that’s what the market dictates. Vendors don’t care about who’s on the field, they care about the fact that even though you don’t like paying $12 for beer, you’re still lining up to get one.
Market 101.
$12 beers! Sign me up! Said the Dodgers fans paying $24 a beer.
“I hated BUYING $12 beers”
Sounds like the beers were priced correctly.
Absolutely right. Markets are only dictated by the will of the consumer. When the lines go down so will the prices and when the lines build back up due to the lower prices so will the prices themselves. At the end of the day, all these talks about millionaires and billionaires are only based off of the consumers desire to purchase.
The MLB minimum salary in 2021 stood at a handsome 570.5 thousand U.S. dollars annually, representing a steady increase each year over the last 15 years.
…
Minimum player salary in Major League Baseball from 2003 to 2021 (in 1,000 U.S. dollars)
Characteristic Salary in thousand U.S. dollars
2020 563.5
2019 555
I’m not pro owner or player….but this minimum wage sure is better than 7.25
There is zero value in comparing a baseball player to a minimum wage worker.
The average Fortune 500 CEO salary is over 12 million. Why not use that as a comparison ?
There is reason why there is a MLB Trade Rumors and not a McDonald’s Fry Cook Trade Rumors
and that’s only salary. they get stock compensation, private jets, paid vacations, chauffeured limos and many other compensations they get. even when they drive the companies to oblivion they can walk away with millions or more.
Exactly and by all accounts they are far more replaceable than someone that can throw or hit a 100mph fast ball
But there is a McDonalds shake machine broken site.
Joe will be moving to the new Springfield McDonalds location. They offered him 36 hours per week at $12.75, plus one free McFlurry per shift.. Joe will be shifting positions, and will now be taking drive-thru orders. Quite a step up for the youngster after showing promise in his previous position of fry cook with Shelbyville.
Dusty, do you think your chances dealing with 50,000 employees and dozens of governments around the world as a corporate CEO are any better than your odds against a 98 mph fastball?
Just think if there was though…..”The McDonalds on the north side Virginia Beach just traded it’s cashier to the South side of Chattanooga McDonalds. Apparently for a number of beef patties to be named later.” Ya, that’s just not nearly as interesting to me for some reason.
McDonald’s fry cook rumors would be hilarious. Someone needs to get on that.
Ahhh horsemeat
That’s the deal, @Dusty.
Half of it anyway.
There is almost something compelling all of us to pick a “side”. In order to do that, the temptation is to try & relate to one or the other.
I just simply cannot do that.
When I was a building tradesman working *for* others, my experience was markedly different than a guy playing in MLB. So different – in fact – that there was/is actually no comparison there at all.
Now that I own a company & sign the front of the checks I want to relate to the owners. But I can’t do that either. My partner & I busted our balls building our company. Hal Steinbrenner – for example – was given his. Calling him a “businessman” is an insult to fellas like me. He is not. He is certainly welcome to his money & assets but I have a hard time believing he knows what a 100 hour work week really looks like. Or how much something like that sucks.
There is going to be tons of argument around here. & that’s just that. But both the players & owners are in an industry completely unlike anything any of us are involved in. So I like your analogy for half of the equation here.
Maurice started out mopping the floor, today he’s on lettuce, soon he’ll be on fries then the grill….oh wait- thats McDowells not McDonalds
Epic comment my man haha
Ducky- I think you’re position and experience provides really good perspective that many may not have or be able to directly relate to. But the natural struggle that you touched on in identifying with Hal, for example, is precisely why this is so personalized to so many.
Nonetheless, I think there’s plenty of blame on both sides for a variety of reasons. I also believe we don’t/won’t have all the information. But baseball is very unique (and sports in general) because it isn’t often that multimillionaires are the labor / unionized side of the equation.
It’ll get worked out because they’re all smart enough to know they lose money if they don’t. And that’s their primary motivator. One thing that does suck is Tallion, who has to halt his surgery recovery & PT because he cannot communicate with his doctors. That seems like it’s just a really bad idea.
*checks notes* I’ve got Joe as an 80 rating on his Cashiering
Dusty
So you think someone who can throw 100mph brings more benefit to society then a innovative CEO who has tons of education and experience behind him and helps create employment for 1000’s if not 10,000 of employees? Yea ok .
It’s not about Dusty’s odds. He can’t do either. The number of CEOs of companies with 50k+ employees is far greater than the number of guys on an MLB roster. The CEO is easier to replace than the replacement level ballplayer.
@Chipper
In New York they make $15/hr! (McDonalds fry cooks)
Rogue, you have no idea what you’re talking about. There are 750 players on MLB rosters but maybe a couple hundred companies with 50,000 employees. It takes a lot of skill to manage a complex enterprise. They aren’t merely replacement level employees!
I’m picking the owners side. The owners will increase roster sizes, do away with draft pick compensation, add the DH, and likely bend a little on other issues.
The players want to change things Marvin Miller fought for, which are arbitration and free agency and force teams to spend a certain amount of money.
They may get adjustments to one but not all three. They are asking for the moon.
This is on the players.
Not to nitpick your point too much-but where is minimum wage at $7.25/hr?
On a side note,
IF the federal minimum wage kept pace with cost of living increases for the past several decades, the federal minimum wage would be $15/hr. But of course, corporations are now considered to have the free speech rights (donation money) of people as a major indication of both our societal decline and a deterioration of democracy in the US.
21 states. Mostly the cheaper cost of living states.
NC, SC, KY, VA, PA, NH, TN, GA, MS, AL, LA, ID, WI, ND, IN, UT, OK, KS, TX, IA, WY
Exactly right. Minimum wage needs to be tied to COLA.
The minimum wage in 1968 was $1.60 per hour, adjusted for inflation that would equal $12.54 in present day’s dollars.
Meaning someone working at today’s federal minimum ($7.25) would have about half the buying power in today’s market in comparison to someone in 1968 making 1968’s minimum.
I think the statistic you cite is a bit off-possibly due to the studies that have been done and how they may have defined cost of living adjustments and inflation. Also, federal minimum wage is of course different than the minimum wage a state sets their minimum wage. I have not researched recently; the wage rate I relayed was the federal one I heard from Robert Reich several years ago.
Lola. La La Lola!
To be fair. Reich’s economic takes are really bad. Everything he says is strained through an ideological lens because he makes money ironically pushing anti-capitalistic rhetoric.
He is also 4’11”. Call me what you will, but I just can’t trust a man who isn’t tall enough to ride most of the rides at the fair.
I’m using the Bureau of Labor Statistics actual CPI calculator.
Coke or Pepsi?
Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. Its for entry level positions.
in most of those states, political leaders are also business leaders. padding the pockets!
What’s your point phattboy? The facts stand, the minimum is currently worth half what it once was. Even at 12.50 an hour that’s not a livable wage.
You can live for free in the woods.
the problem is there are hardly any higher paying jobs since the large manufacturing mostly moved to china and other countries. and now minimum wages became living wages. sadly.
The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. The minimum wage is an introduction into the workforce and then move on from there.
It’s easy to become more valuable than the minimum wage. Show up to work on time and do your job with a good attitude.
You do that, you won’t be making minimum wage for very long.
The problem is that as production per employee has increased the profits have gone to the top only and have not trickled down.
No you can’t Chipper. You’ll be arrested for trespassing on someone else’s property.
Production per employee has increased because technology has increased. So the person who invested in the technology by purchasing it for the company should make the money from its improved production (the owner).
If you think Robert Reich is anti-capitalism, I think you’re viewing him through your own ideological lens. The dude worked for Bork lol.
It seems that it is, whenever minimum wage goes up, it appears that coat of living is sure to follow. Why do you think it is that the states which have the lower costs of living are also the ones who still have the minimum set at $7.25.
If you ever ran any type of business you’d know that wages are one of your biggest controllable expenses (which also explains why companies like Walmart don’t have the people on the floor they used to). Any wage increase will ALWAYS immediately be passed to the consumer.
@CalcetinesBlancos 50 years ago…
His rhetoric now is very much anti-capitalism.
Looks as if someone is attempting to articulate their understanding of Marx.
B@stard Chipper-
I don’t agree. I also think your mindset is dangerous and discourages civic participation by making people think they are wrong for standing up to corruption and monopolistic behavior, among other things.
southi-
Are you seriously complaining about the customer service at Walmart? That’s like bitching about the quality of the toilet paper in a porta potty lol.
No need to name call, brother.
I think standing up to corruption is great, but I don’t see how the MLB and the MLBPA negotiations classifies as corruption.
I didn’t name call. And I was referring to you calling Reich an anti-capitalist. I think it’s lazy, and that sort of overly dramatic nonsense also explains why our country is so polarized.
Baseball is a different story, and obviously there’s quite a story there.
How is calling someone an anti-capitalist who has made an entire social media presence advocating for anti-capitalist ideas lazy or overly dramatic nonsense?
Mocking someone because of his height, even jokingly is childish. If I said that I do not trust Donald Trump because if he sat in one of my chairs it would collapse, it would be a so-so joke, but not one of the 10 best reasons not to trust him. And for the record, I don’t care much for Reich.
Lol. Do you work for Goldman Sachs by chance?
Show me something he said that you believe is “anti-capitalist” I’m genuinely curious.
paule-
I see your point and it is a good one, but Trump can control his weight if he wishes. Reich doesn’t have the same luxury.
@calcentinesblanxoa
I used it as an easy to understand example that people all across the country can understand.
southi-
I know my friend. I was just kidding around.
It’d be lower in a lot of states if they legally could pay less. In high school (in PA) my first raise was a result of the federal government raising minimum wage to 7.25/hr. This was in early 2000’s and 21 states still haven’t budged including PA.
Even at $15.00 an hr. I still can’t afford to go to a MLB baseball game
@Chipper…..I won’t call you anything. Once someone uses ad hominem fallacies to support an argument, the argument becomes flawed.
Uh.
Even when you own the land you gotta pay taxes on it. No matter how remote the land is.
@paddy That’s not how fallacies work. If I use an ad hom, it doesn’t make my argument flawed. It just can’t be used to discredit what I am critiquing on its own. What you just did is a fallacy because you used my use of an ad hom to discredit my entire argument.
But honestly no need to bring in the whole fallacy stuff. Just have a conversation
Every full time wage should be a living wage phatty
Depends on which woods your trying to live in. Some charge admission. I wish I was kidding.
Virginia minimum wage is not 7.25. It’s currently 9.50 and is bumping up to $11 on January 1
No one in NC/SC is getting $7,25/hr, I can promise you that.
Then learn skills that translate to earning a living wage. There are plenty of fields one get into. Waiting around for someone to “fix” the “problem” of a global workforce and geographic arbitrage isn’t going to happen.
We know which one Ron Washington will choose.
Sounds like you are an anti-dwarf bigot. What happened, Snow White dumped you?
@Ghost. Sure, that’s true. But why should the MLBPA except the minimum and let the owners take the extra? Why would we have greater approval of the owners taking more than the players? Your first statement was true. I don’t know why you followed it up with your next.
Throw a ball 95 mph+ or hit one thrown that fast and your opinion will matter. Otherwise you’re a nobody in this argument.
Here’s an opinion….you are a nobady
However, nowadays, it doesn’t even matter if ya throw 95+ anymore. Ya better throw that with a smooth, effortless motion and have pinpoint control.
That statement just roved you are pro owner & you don’t even realize it. Stop looking at athletes like they are 9-5 punching a clock because they are not.
They are entertainers and need to be paid off the revenue numbers they bring in.
Stop complaining about the cost of goin to a game. The owners don’t care they charge the prices before they negotiate the salaries. They charge the prices they do because they want the guy/gal who is die hard and will watch every game to watch at home because they know those ppl will be plopped right in front of the TV therefore creating ratings that make them money in commercial advertising.
Where baseball is messing up is they want 13 outta 14 games a week to be treated like an event that ppl just absolutely have to go to because it’s the cool place to be like once a week NFL or 3 times a week NBA and that system doesn’t work the same way.
The summer there are multitude of things to do to grab your entertainment dollar. The winter & fall not so much.
And stop with the World Series ratings are horrible.
Baseball is regional you more than likely will only watch the WS if you team is in it. Almost the same in the NBA except the NBA turned its sport into an individual sport so ppl are fans of players more than teams and ppl from all over like players the don’t necessarily see playing in their region.
The NFL turned its 1 game the Super Bowl into an
event they pack the halftime show with entertainment for the wives and madev1 game on a Sunday into a party like Memorisl Day BBQ or 4th of July.
Baseball needs to find its own Mitch and stop trying to emulate other sports leagues and find its own way to draw fans.
And ppl go out and spend money to watch players not owners therefore the players need their rightful cut but baseball has no cap so the books stay closed.
steelerbravenation
They are entertainers and need to be paid off the revenue numbers they bring in.
=================================
Just so you know, it is the players that have rejected a percentage of revenue basis. The owners would do that tomorrow.
My comment on that wasn’t about the owners or the players it was directed to the fans who cry about how much money an athlete gets paid to play a game.
I get tired of hearing that narrative. It gets old.
When I see what TV contracts get paid out everytime a new one is signed. How much money comes in on streaming rights, MLB app or Radio etc and then ppl complain about someone’s salary.
Where would they like the money to go to the owners pockets ????
They rejected blindly accepting what the owners told them the revenues, and their cut, were. They’d accept a percentage of revenues in a heartbeat if the books were open to them to verify they were getting their cut. Which they owners won’t, and don’t have to, do.
Would just devolve into accounts on both sides arguing what counts where anyway.
The “millionaires blaming billionaires” line is getting old already. What do you expect both sides to do, agree to contracts neither feels places them at a advantage?
Who cares of you feel it’s over used? It’s true and captures why we shouldnt be so aggressive for one side or the other. We really should condemn both players and the owners.
Why do you want to condemn them. It’s not as if this is the regular season. It’s December so we all need to relax. If the lockout continues into spring training and the 2022 season, then I’d say your argument would hold some weight.
You’d hope that both sides wouldn’t be stupid enough to kill the goose that laud the golden egg.
But here we are.
The lockout was unnecessary at this time. Owners want to force the hand of the players to what they want. If this pushing into spring training I will be canceling my Rays season ticket plan that is for sure.
Will you get charged for games that don’t get played?
@fljay….You have a Rays season ticket plan? A rare bird indeed!
Endangered, but not protected, species lol.
First order of business to destroy from the lockout is no rule 5 draft. Well done both MLB and MLBPA. Fact is this is the wealthiest 1% of the population fighting over money while the 99% of us who make them wealthy have to sit back and wonder if there will be baseball in 2022. I went through this in 1994 and it’s already making me disgusted.
Billionaires vs. millionaires, that’s a new and original comment. You sure you haven’t heard it somewhere else before?
Someone else said create an MLB fans union. The baseball contract does NOT get approved unless the fans APPROVE.
The fans revenue and tv pay the players, so the fans and tv decide.
Then there would never be baseball. The side thinking players should make $15 an hour would never agree to anything. Since that seems to be about half of the fans, we’re gridlocked. Would be easier to get players and owners in agreement than the fan base.
Why doesn’t ManFRAUD just call the MLBPA liars, imbeciles & scum & spit in their face. I guess he’s saving that for next week. What a maroon! Ahahahaha!
Maybe he did. Not much could have been said in the 7 minute meeting they had. Plenty of time for insults though.
Remember a few things:
A.) The owners locked out the players, the players didn’t go on strike.
B.) The billionaire owners did not make their money in baseball. They made it
in other forms of business. Baseball, for the most part, is their “toy.”
C.) Hard to feel sorry for owners when just before the CBA expired they rushed to
the table and signed players to mega-million dollar contracts. This included
the Tampa Bay Rays who signed Franco, who has exactly 70 ML games under
hit belt to an 11 year, $182 million contract. Yes, the same Rays who claim
poverty while being subsidized by 28 other clubs. And the teams think they
system is broke. What a joke! Sorry, the owners have very little credibility.
D.) And speaking of very little credibility I present to you MLB Commissioner
Rob Manfred.
a.) May 3, 2021: Manfred states any expansion team must pony up at least
$2.2 billion because that is what the AVERAGE franchise is worth, not the
true figure which should be the MEAN number which is far less.
According to Forbes this is the 2021 value of MLB teams.
1.) Yankees – $5.25 billion
2.) Dodgers – $3.57 billion
3.) Red Sox – $3.465 billion
4.) Cubs – $3.36 billion
5.) Giants – $3.175 billion
6.) Mets – $2.45 billion
7.) Cardinals – $2.245 billion
8.) Phillies – $2.05 billion (wow, that means only 7 teams worth $2.2 billion
or more. You mean to tell me an expansion team is worth
more money than 22 existing ML teams?)
9.) Angels – $2.025 billion
10.) Nationals – $1.925 billion
11.) Braves – $1.875 billion
12.) Astros – $1.87 billion
13.) Rangers – $1.785 billion
14.) White Sox – $1.685 billion
15.) Blue Jays – $1.675 billion
16.) Mariners – $1.63 billion
17.) Padres – $1.5 billion
18.) Orioles – $1.43 billion
19.) Twins – 1.325 billion
20.) Diamondbacks – $1.32 billion
21.) Rockies – $1.3 billion
22.) Pirates – $1.285 billion
23.) Tigers – $1,26 billion
24.) Brewers – $1.22 billion
25.) Indians (Guardians) – $1.16 billion
26.) Athletics – $1.125 billion
27.) Reds – $1.085 billion
28.) Royals – $1.06 billion
29.) Rays – $1.055 billion
30.) Marlins -$990,000,000
Take one guess who would get the $4.4 billion if two expansion teams
came into MLB? Did you have 30 MLB teams on your Bingo card?
AVERAGE and MEAN are the exact same thing. The term youre searching for is MEDIAN.
Pointing out his mistake is just MEAN.
Your figures don’t factor in regional TV rights where the team set up a separate entity to broadcast them, as opposed to the practice of leasing out the rights to a third party. A unique case would be the Orioles and Masn. MASN is worth more than the Orioles, whose owners have a majority stake in MASN. The Orioles, plus their share of MASN are worth more than 2.2 billion. The Forbes number only counts what MASN pays the Orioles in rights fees as part of the valuation, and not MASN itself as its technically a separate company that just happens to be run by the Angelos family.
So are you saying an expansion team will have the same TV rights as the Orioles?
I can tell whenever Clark or Manfred is stretching the truth because when they’re being dishonest, their lips move.
Or they send “Dear Baseball Fans” letters to us
oh dear, its like the kids fighting in the back seat on a long car vacation road trip.
“she- he touched me! – he – she touched me first!
Its gonna be daily articles on these two clowns. Looking at their pictures over and over makes me sick.
It is almost funny that they both seem to think that most fans want to hear what they have to say daily. Unless it’s announcing an agreement, most of us don’t want to hear from or see them at all.
I like how everyone gets so emotional about these things. This is just smart business from the owners. You can all keep calling them “billionaires” to demonize them, but you’d do the same thing if labor at your small business demanded crazy raises after you provided a fair wage and assumed all the risk. The players have plenty of money to start their own league and own their own destiny. Go for it! Baseball will be back and we’ll all have the game we love. Chill out and let them negotiate, just like you would if it was your business and your money.
No one is going to go see a new baseball league.
It’s MLB we love. The teams we grew up watching and spent our money going to see. Guys have risked there lives to come into this country to play on a MLB team.
Besides where would they play? Not in any current MLB ballpark. Take a lesson from all the failed Pro Football leagues. They will never be as good the current leagues.
What is your definition of crazy raises? The Players sorely lost the last CBA. The % of revenue going to salary is actually decreasing.
talent has risked their lives to take a early payout from the likes of copella and millions of dollars in signing bonuses.
Horrible, I know.
I have decided…
Oakland Athletics become Las Vegas Vipers
Tampa Bay Rays become Nashville Bandits (“Stars” is not creative)
Charlotte Knights and Portland Thunderbirds are added as expansion franchises
Those sound like crappy names from an old Nintendo game that didn’t wanna pay for an official MLB license.
Lol because “Nashville Stars” and “Portland Lumberjacks” are so much more creative? What do you suggest?
this has nothing to do with the lockout, so who cares.
A major issue is the stability of the Tampa Bay and Oakland franchises.
Nashville Stars was the name of the negro league team I believe. They want that name to pay homage to those athletes. Nashville Stars is a fine name.
I know…but that team only played one season and the name and logo are not creative. Find some other way to honor them.
Portland, Maine I hope. Portland, Oregon doesn’t deserve anything.
Ya could go with the Nashville Hillbillies!! I’ll even go out on a limb and predict the Caucasians won’t even cry about it!!
Portland Beavers or Chinooks, and Raleigh Mustangs or Terrapins.
nashville’s media market is less than million heads.
Did anyone watch Korean baseball on ESPN when they came back before MLB? I’m an MLB fan and while little league is cute, I don’t watch college or the minor leagues when they’re on.
Yes, would watch it while working night shift, honestly not bad content.
Everyone involved in this can go screw.
tbh -… and I I though I don’t support MLB in this – the MLBPA has definitely not come to the table with a solid game plan or a solid proposal – if they did it would help to point out how stubborn the MLB is being in not negotiating
I think that’s because mlb is doing more attempts at negotiating than the mlbpa is…
when the “negotiating” is based on non starters by the MLB it’s not hard to see why the MLBPA doesn’t seem to want to negotiate
i mean we saw this during the 2020 COVID negotiations. The Players just kept saying no to everything with no counter offer, or their counter offers were ridiculous
yeah see i generally side with the players and even in this instance I don’t sign with the league but you hit the nail on the head that they have n’t lined out and said we want x, y, and z – it is just a vague group of goals and then when the league comes in with a bad idea they come in with a different bad idea to counter it.
Yes they have but they are not telling to the media… why not? for the same reason you don’t show your hand while you play poker.
mlb threw out trash proposals no sane person would take seriously.
It will take awhile before the two sides agree to sit down and talk let alone decide anything. You get very little movement towards any agreement when both sides think they are in the right. Look at Congress.
Speaking of Congress, it’s time they pulled MLB’s antitrust exemption. Just the threat of jerking the exemption would get the owners back to the bargaining table post haste. Don’t believe me? Over the summer with the minor league players situation with the A’s and the Angels making the news there was also three Senators who introduced a bill to pull the antitrust exemption and this time they had bi-partisan support. All of a sudden in late summer 2021 MLB increased minor league salaries and provided players with housing. Do you think the MLB teams who have known for years what the minor league players were going through all of a sudden did this out of the goodness of their hearts? Connect the dots. While we are at it, teams should open their books.
Of course the MLBPA has been dallying. I don’t blame them.
The Union wants to stall until their striking cost the owners the most dollars and the owners want to lockout when it cost the owners the least.
The Union may be right about a number of things, but when they complain about the lockout, they lose credibility.
? The MLBPA didn’t strike the owners initiated the lockout.
Is English a second language. You should read it again. Slowly if you have to.
What words are you having an issue with.
These two guys are the worst thing for the game. I dislike them equally.
How about instead of a lockout, we have a lock in – as in lock the sides in a room and don’t let them out until there is an agreement!
What if the owners play the lowest paid players in the game in a best-of-seven series? Then the winners get their way with the CBA.
What if the owners had to play the lowest paid players and the mlbpa had to play the highest paid. If the lowest paid players win they get the highest salary but the owners get the cba they want. How fast would the mlbpa decline this too.
The only food would be from Taco Bell! It would be settled in a week.
They are playing the blame game with each other but it is pretty clear that both are puppets with puppeteers that are internally not aligned. I think there is a divided house with the owners that Manfred is trying to appease while the MLBPA is presenting their Christmas list poorly.
Could they just start a new league with no rob manfred
It will have to be a Southern league so we can have winter baseball.
Atlanta
Charlotte
Raleigh
Nashville
Memphis
Columbia
Birmingham
New Orleans
Jacksonville
Orlando
Tampa Bay
Miami
And no analytics either
How to say I’m a idiot without saying im a idiot
Analytics have been around in various forms since the game started. Why do you think batting average, RBI, etc. exist? They’re early attempts at analyzing the game.
Owners have looking for a fight, and now they’ve got one. Been a fan since before the 1981 strike. Players have done a lot over the past 26 years to be more conciliatory than they were prior to 1994. Players have been more fan-friendly and fan-accessible than I recall before 1994. Playing games with service time and the appearance of collusion in some cases have eroded the trust that once existed. I hope that the players get what they feel is fair.
As crazy as the money is, most of them don’t get that kind of money (i.e. Mike Trout, Max Scherzer money).. The money most players make in baseball is the most they’ll make over their lifetime, and they have a right to bargain for the best deal they can get.
Finally someone with some sense.
Both sides seem intent on ruining the game. Look at how they couldn’t even work together on a game plan last year until the last moment. Both sides are pathetic and I hope we see a repeat of the fan apathy we saw after the 1994 strike/lockout. The game if baseball is not like it once was and I’m ok if they cancel the 2022 season. Go for it owners and players. I learned last season, its possible to have a life without sports.
Fans are just scum on their shoe tops. I know now why two very good friends of mine no longer watch MLB after 94.
1994 seems to be a distant memory and that is foolish on both groups. Baseball is NOT the national pastime anymore and coming off Covid, they better not push it. They may not come back as last time.
Last time they needed steroids and McGwire and Sosa to restore excitement.
The owners think there will be a 2022 season or we would not have seen the recent flurry of free agent signings. Will the season maybe be delayed a few weeks, maybe, but I am not too worried. Besides I know that neither the owners nor the players have the fans best interests in mind.
How many fans have the owners’ or players’ best interests in mind?
We fans like to complain about them being selfish and not caring about our interests, but isn’t that being selfish?
I think a lot of fans know that minor league players get shafted and want a system that is better for them. But if you can’t make ends meet on one million per year, then my sympathy is better allocated elsewhere.
Manfred is bad but he’s right as far as leverage. Clark is an absolute clown. He handled the 2020 season negotiations poorly and is out of his league when it comes to negotiations. Please step down and let people who actually know what they’re doing for the sake of the league.
The players union has an attorney who does most of the negotiations, Clark does the PR.
Neither Clark or Manfred are conducting the negotiations. They are merely the spokesmen.
The MLBPA hired a skilled labor negotiator after the last CBA and he is handling these negotiations. Clark is simply the face and voice, it the real work is not being done by him. That’s why we have a lockout. The players under the new negotiator are finally playing hardball again.
Better get this done before games start to be cancelled. As a fan I hope people do like they did following the 1994 lockout. Dont go to thw games. Then the billionaires and millionaires get hurt where it matters most, in their wallet. Afterall, thats all they care about. They dont care about the fans,and all the little people that help for a baseball game go smoothly
Tv money is where the majority of their money comes from
Sorry to say they both know fans will be back no matter how much they screw them and then a generational change will happen and you will hear the sound of crickets where the great game of baseball once sounded.
And then it will be to late…
maybe they should sit down and discuss it with each other like normal people have to, instead of avoiding solving the problem and taking shots at the other side through the media.
The MLBPA should have ousted Clark during the whole covid crap.
All they had to do was throw Tony Clark a curveball – that would have gotten him out.
Honestly screw all of these people. They should be at the table right now and not leaving until something gets hammered out.
A lockout is grossly unacceptable and I can’t believe either side allowed this to happen. “Fair value” is arbitrary. They should just hire a mediator to help out and get to grinding out a new CBA.
I don’t have any sympathy for either side. No matter what the agreement is, the fans are the ones that ultimately pay for it. They need to have a little sympathy for us.
Here is my proposal,
-Hard cap on salaries
-Hard cap on spending for rest of organization
-Fair profit rate for owners fixed at inflation plus n
-Higher minimum wage for players
-Much higher wage for minor leaguers
-All excess moneys given to the fans in less expensive tickets and lower beer prices.
Now back to reality where none of that will happen
You’re kidding, right? I knew I should not have included lower beer prices.
The reality I see is MLB and MLBPA are helping a declining sport decline faster and either are oblivious to the consequences of their actions or don’t care.. The eventual new CBA will not address any of the problems the sport faces and will only serve to enrich those who need it the least. It is also hard to feel any sympathy for the owners or the players when a rookie makes ten times the average starting salary of a teacher in Arizona, where I live, and some “stars” make almost a thousand times more. If you don’t like teachers, do the comparison to police, almost as bad.
Can Mrs. Castillo in the Science Pod hit a Lance Lynn cutty with 2 strikes on her? There’s no TV deal in place for her 4th period class…
If there’s 2 shortened seasons within a 3 year period, more fans will abandon the sport… Please fix this
I guess it’s time for MLB Europe.
Barcelona
Madrid
London
Rome
Paris
Berlin
Gunna become 96-team MLB soon
I want a team in Stockholm – No dome. Late October and early April games will be brutal.
If we’re covering all continents…
London Werewolves
Zimbabwe Zebras
Halifax Demon Ducks
Peru Howler Monkeys
Siberia Space Dogs
Buenos Aires Vampire Bats
Seoul Shadow Beasts
Guam Ghosts
Melbourne Pythons
Auckland Whales
Auckland Kiwis
Whichever…but we still need teams for Egypt and the Congo.
Also, I forgot about the Sao Paulo Dart Frogs.
London Warewolves we’re a team in the 90’s in the IBL
Trademarking the “Stockholm Syndrome” as a team name now…
…….and people who work at Ama*on are cheering for a $15 an hour pay rate as they send out MLB products!!!!
G.o.a.t.
Shutting down a sport whose average fan age is 58.
Smart.
The owners do not seem to have a clear position so here is a suggestion.
1. Salary cap stays where it is with an escalator tied to inflation and a maximum of 5 per cent a year.
2. Maximum salary of 35 million for any player and a maximum guarantee of five years. Any years beyond that must be mutual option between team and player.
3. Players clock towards free agency starts three years after they are in the minors.
4. Increase the minimum salary at the major league level to 1 million.
Let me add one thing to make it a level playing field on both sides, how about a maximum profit amount a team can make?
Why on earth what the Yankees and dodgers other big markets agree to it?
Sarcasm
the maximum salary is the biggest point. Since 80 per cent of the players are underpaid and it is the Trout’s etc. that are taking too big a piece of the pie. The myth that owners are making huge profits with massive TV contracts is a laugh. The real value of a team is if you are willing to sell it and then it is only large market teams. No one would be lining up to buy the Pirates or the Rockies.
What? No billionaire would be interested in buying the Pirates or Rockies? They are monopolies, whose value only goes up due to the fact that there will never be anymore unless they too are paid huge expansion fees in the process.
Someone publicly states they want to buy the Pirates every 3 or 4 years including this summer. Nutting always refuses to sell.
I’m for the players getting whatever they can get. Owners get richer when the value of their team goes up plus any profit they make each year. Every owner is swimming in money and many of the players are not.
I’m pretty sure most of the people posting here like having the ability to work for whoever gives them the “best offer”. Players don’t get that option until free agency.
MLBPA has made big concessions (or are terrible negotiators?) over the years. A fair arrangement would have had the luxury threshold rising in sync with the increase in revenues. mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/how-the-mlb-luxury-tax-…
I don’t know; I think a guaranteed contract paying me more than 10x what John Q. Public makes to play a game would be high on my list.
So many silly comments here it shows me what the owners think in regards to this CBA negotiations. There is plenty of blame for owners and players in not being near each other in regards to how the leagues should be run including compensation.
It is past time for the owners to open the books and show the actual losses in 2020 & 2021 as well as precious record breaking years leading into the pandemic. It is past time for players to embrace a top and bottom payroll threshold.
Can we just get to February already. The next 2 months of sound bites is going to be annoying.
Oh to own a DeLorean that flies……
clarke needs to redeem his shoddy work on the last CBA and the players mistrust the other side much more than they did 5 years ago. this will get ugly
Well, Mr. Dierkes and company — this should up the traffic on your website, because, really, who wants to spend any time looking at the nothingburger now being featured at mlb.com?
You make the MLB and MLBPA agree to a binding arbitration settled upon by a panel/group consisting of Ken Burns, George Will, one fan each in their 20’s , 30’s, 40’s and 50’s, two retired MLB players each (one pitcher, one batter) from the 20’s, 10’s, 00’s, and 90’s, and a good ‘money/financial’ guy. That’s a pool of 15 people who would sit down and “fix baseball” to the best of their abiility in all or whatever areas they deem fit and everyone would have to be willing to accept the results. Obviously, there would need to be a basic framework and limitations in place up front, but it would be interesting to see what they came up with.
In the meantime, the MLB players will play the NHL players in a game of basketball.
And just to make sure ownership is negotiating in earnest we, as fans, should unite and implement a moratorium on MLB merchandise and ticket purchases until a CBA is in place.
All I read on both sides was blah, blah,blah, waw, waw,waw, waw. “School Teacher from Peanuts cartoons”. Pointing fingers a each other like some kids. SMH. No side will get everything they want, Compromise and let’s get back to hot stove rumors. I hate the offseason. Stopped watching the NBA in the 90’s early 2000’s, NFL to me has lost its magic when dudes cared more about their “Tic Toc” pregame streams than winning games. Heck you got players questioning how the coach conducts practice in Pittsburgh. Baseball is a game of physical and mental endurance. You fail 70% off the time and that’s for the elite players. Nothing like it.
Two fools arguing is worse than anything except two fools who are also incompetent, which is worse than anything except two fools who are incompetent and also impossibly arrogant.
And that, friends and neighbors, is what we are watching right now.
The game of baseball is wayyy bigger than any of these douchers. From stick ball to MiLB, MLB is just a subset of the baseball universe.
Manfred: stop ruining our beloved game. Focus more on getting a quality product on the field rather than shaving 2 minutes off each game.
Manfred, go fukc up hockey. We’re done here.
All I can say for sure is that the game will be worse when they’re done “negotiating”. They should be locked into a room with Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and have to listen to the two of them blather on nonstop until they reach an agreement. Sadly, I don’t see a quick resolution. I’m not even sure either side can concisely articulate what they want. The owners are on different pages depending on their available resources and could care less about helping each other. The players have sort of a parallel dichotomy of elite vs. non-elite. The fans may have an idea of what they’d like to see but we can’t predict the consequences of any actions that are taken going forward. So, I just keep my mask on and stay away from stupid people. Because nothing really changes. Sadly.
The owners and PA are as divided as our country it seems. Maybe they should battle it out on Twitter, but no memes!
Well played
They sound like politicians, not a good start… (ugh)
Well at least we will have MILB in April. Has Vegas put out odds on MLB season length yet? I’m guessing we will have exactly 1/2 of a normal season at 81 games.
In a moment of relative maturity, Rob Manfred called Tony Clark “a giant poo-poo head.” Clark fired back, “I’m rubber, you’re glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.” Talks quickly deteriorated from there.
Get new players now so they will be ready to go for spring training. I can care less who the players are. When someone gets traded from my team I don’t stop rooting for that team and root for that players team. I like college football and there is new players every 3 or 4 years. Scherzer can go make 40 million a year doing something else if he doesn’t want to cross the line.
Replacement players, really?
For sure. The current players will cross. If not oh well. Couple of years there will be all new stars. Not even. During the lockdown people watched Doosan vs Samsung. Red sox Yankees will be fine. What else are people going to do? A nice chunk of fans don’t watch NHL NBA. And there are months when baseball is only major us sport around. And 99 point some percent of mlb players aren’t going to make more money anywhere else. Pirates Rays etc can get DR highschool and college kids. NY La Chi can buy the best Korea Japan players.
These guys should do what they did last time and do biz under the current deal until they figure it out. That worked out good. Granted, they were much closer than they are this time though.
Hard salary floor and hard cap. Problem solved…
For instance. $100M floor, $200M luxury tax and $250M hard cap.
Except for the problem that the players will never accept a hard cap.
Then they can enjoy not playing baseball.
Heck yes. I don’t care about the owners getting richer but with all sports where else are most players going to make that much? You really don’t have to pay them more than a hundred grand. Maybe a million for some. Not many mlb players could play in NFL NHl NBA etc.
The real problem with the “negotiations” is that they left out the third party, the fans. As it is, both parties will say they are representing the fans when, in fact, they really aren’t.
“world’s” financial system: Get as much as you can.
God’s Financial System: Give & it shall be given unto you, pressed down, shaken together & overflowing.
Maybe they can work in not having to take out a small loan for a jersey or a good seat or some food or a beer in the parks. I guess i wouldnt care if i was out of touch with the fans economically so much that they think i care how many millions each deserve. To the players i would say we all work for someone who makes more money and all major leaguers are paid well. To the owners i would say if you cant afford to create a team that can compete please sell the team so We as fans can enjoy it more.
We should form a union.
If every fan tied buying tickets ( + parking, concessions, etc) and merch to a set of negotiated agreements, then owners and players would both be motivated.
Lol he said she said garbage leading to a lockout! Like none of them can’t afford it. Who cares at this point.
Manfred: “Mom, Tony’s looking at me….”
Clark: “Nuh uh, He’s looking at ME!”
Mom: “Boys… please stop…”
Clark: “Mom! Rob touched me!”
Manfred: “NO! You touched me!”
Mom: (Rolls eyes….)
In ’20, these two didn’t like how things were handled when the other spoke through the media…. Welp, looks like they haven’t changed. I understand you want to put on a good face/front so the fans don’t “hate” you, but if you want to do “right,” go sit in an office for a few weeks/months and figure it out. Grow a set, sit down and solve problems the way there were supposed to be solved. You’re not middle schoolers who need to argue through text/social media. Get. It. Done. and then talk to us when it’s over.
75 days from Spring Training starting
Manfred: “[lies lies lies lies lies lies]”
Clark: “Wrong! [lies lies lies lies lies lies]”
As we know, both sides are to blame for this mess. However, when I read and then listened to Commissioner Rob Manfred’s statements, I was insulted. Owners were NOT forced to commence a lockout of the players, they unanimously voted for it! Then he says their doing this for the fans! Hell No! You represent the owners and are fighting for them! Period!
Both sides need to figure something out and come out with an acceptable solution one way or another! And the sooner the better!
Let’s get back to all baseball activities!!!
Both parties need to learn a harsh lesson. If their stubbornness, greed and bad faith tactics lead to a strike in 2022, I say good. Let them then suffer severe economic consequences. Hopefully that will wake them up and facilitate an atmosphere of compromise.
Should be interesting, not very optimistic however
I certainly hope they find an agreement soon. The country is immersed in an economic crisis and this prima-donnas are fighting over who takes more millions. If there is a stoppage of games of any kind, I am done with baseball forever! There are many other sports in which to spend your hard earned dollars than on a bunch of spoiled brats!
I certainly hope they find an agreement soon. The country is immersed in an economic crisis and these prima-donnas are fighting over who takes more millions. If there is a stoppage of games of any kind, I am done with baseball forever!
Both sides are dysfunctional
The minimum salaries are a joke for players. They need to be raised. If you make the show you should be getting at least 1 million a year. Owners own players and control their salaries through their productive seasons. You should have to wait until your 30 to hit free agency. Most of the players got a signing bonus and crappy minor league pay. Quit paying 35 year old pitchers 25 plus million a year and make it right.
The only problem with your assertion is that all of these increases are going to come from somewhere. The owners are not going to lose money. Just like when minimum wage increases by demand, it adversely affects those customers who purchase the product or the employees in some other way.
I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t, just speaking to the natural consequences of doing it.
I’m glad you feel like paying more for a ticket to see a game, and the hot dogs, beer, et al. You go, kid, ’cause it’s not expensive enough!!!
Neither can be trusted. Neither have or will utter a word in good faith. Neither care a damn about the sport.
We can’t know how or when this will end, but there are things we do know without a shadow of a doubt:
-The players will keep on being millionaires.
-The owners will keep on being billionaires.
-Whatever the new CBA looks like, it’ll be great for profitability on both sides.
-Whatever the new CBA looks like, it’ll be objectively horrible for the quality and future of the sport.
-Fan interest will continue to decrease at a rapid rate.
Manfred should be relegated to only speaking about money issues on the owners behalf and not be called the commissioner of baseball. We should give that title to good ol Timmy Kurkjin who can be the rules gatekeeper of our favorite sport, along with giving the fans a figurehead that we know loves the game.
A guy can dream can’t he? 🙁
I didn’t read the article. I don’t care what Clark and Manfred have to say. Just get it done.
They’re locking them out to prevent a strike so they can control that narrative.
I really don’t have a complaint with the players. They just want to hit FA sooner so service time is one of the big issues. Don’t manipulate it. College drafted players or players over a certain age shouldn’t be controlled for 6 years.
Leaving a guy in the minors who is ready for the majors is another issue.
Tanking for draft picks is another. That’s crap for the game.
Arbitration is crap. So if Mets pay $43 Mil for pitcher every agent points to that as a new standard for every pitcher?
The market is what someone will pay not some bs measure against what another player received.
Artie signed Trout to the dumbest contract ever. He’ll be hurt or decline for about 1/3rd of it.
So if players hit FA earlier why should a team develop a good farm system?
How are small market teams going to survive if they develop a young player and he hits FA earlier and is gone to a big market team?
The players in MLB have contracts where the money is guaranteed; not the case for football where the chance of injury is far greater and the average career length is orders of magnitude lower.
And the players playoff proposal where everyone makes it in?
Why not hand out the participation awards; like everything else it waters down the game to a boring nothing
How about you all stop messing with OUR game, put the game back to the way it was, ya know, when real men played it, deal with your “economic issues”, and get back to doing your job!!! 7 inning doubleheader, and runner at second to start the inning in extras, 3 batter minimum all need to go. You are taking all the strategic interests out of the game. And I swear, if you guys miss one game due to this, I’m not coming back this time. I’ll watch college softball.
FWIW, players’ share of MLB revenue has been declining for years especially under the current contract. It may not seem possible given the rise in payrolls, but revenue like TV/radio has probably risen at a faster rate. (And there is a new, even more lucrative, broadcast contract around the corner.) Plus, owners putting millions into developments around parks like Wrigley or Fenway are not sharing those profits with the players. (Nobody said they had to.) Right now, a lot of posturing on both sides so this will go on for awhile.
Disgusting that it even gets to this point. With Manfred and the PA doing the negotiating, not a lot of confidence is inspired in average fans like myself.. Just like politics has no business in sports, neither do team / player finances have any business in disrupting the game for fans. With even a glimmer of leadership on either – or both sides – it should not have come to this. Its failure by both, so both need to give for a solution. From all I’m reading there’s plenty of room to give by both sides if excessive greed and self-centeredness will be put aside .
Well let’s just say goodbye to major league baseball. I’ve had enough of them.
When Manfred speaks, I hit mute.
Dollar figures aside, the players’ share of the overall revenue has declined over the year so they are slightly less greedy.
How about a salary floor as well as a HARD max cap. Less than 10 teams are actively pursuing the best players and therefore the best chance of winning. It also doesn’t take much to treat the minor leaguers much better.
As for me I was disgusted by the 1994-95 lockout and went from attending 5-10 games per year to attending just 3 in the 21st century total (one of which was a company comp). Not interested in their issues.
I can solve most of the problems being debated in this labor dispute with two simple moves.
1) A reasonable salary floor … The owners and players can debate/negotiate what’s “reasonable.”
2) A restructuring of the draft that reverses the order to give first pick to the non-playoff qualifier with the best record.
The first change forces owners to maintain a roster of competent major league players. The second incentivizes competition and free agent spending, while eliminating all motivation behind baseball tanking plague. It would also promote parity as teams rolled into and out of their competitive windows and the playoffs.
This really isn’t nearly as difficult as either side is making it. If you want fans to come to/watch your games and players to get paid, promote and incentivize competition.
I like that. I don’t even think you need a salary floor. Now 5 more wins means something.
If that’s the only thing the players wanted, then you are right. Easy solution.
But they also want to change the way arbitration and fee agency work.
They want all three and that’s never going to happen.
My proposal wouldn’t solve everything or make everyone happy, but it would improve the game, the fan experience and ultimately the bottom line for both owners and players.
If teams were rewarded for competing to the end, every fan in baseball would have a reason to watch in September. And all teams would have inventive to improve their teams and standing in the winter.
The one unintended consequence I can think of is that it would impact seller trades, but you’d still have teams value other teams’ prospects over their draft placement.
I’m sure there would be other bugs arise as well. But this would effectively end tanking by punishing teams that aren’t even trying to compete.
Forgive my ignorance, but I assume teams can still look for managers/coaching staff. Is this correct? Seems like a good time for teams like the Mets to fill out their staff.
I am not a fan of “kicking the can down the road” but after the 2020 shortened pandemic season couldn’t they both have agreed to extend the present now expired CBA for 1 or 2 years as a gesture to us fans?
And then deal with this later just to give everyone some time to heal and distract our lives with this entertainment.
I hope I am reading the players playoff proposal wrong; almost everyone makes the playoffs?
Why play 162 games? Why play 62 game regular season?
Or just sit your starting pitchers half the year and get into the playoffs.
Secondly if players reach FA faster how are small teams or teams that have a good farm system going to benefit?
The fact that they couldn’t get on the field in a timely and peaceable manner during the pandemic season would suggest they’re not particularly interested in goodwill gestures to the fans.
I’ll never understand why some fans pick sides in these disputes. Neither cares a lick about us beyond what we can add to their gate revenue/paychecks.
They need to cut more minor league levels out. Get players to the majors faster and they will reach free agency faster. The cream always rises. Let the boys play!!! Too many players wasting too many years trying to perfect their trade on the minors. Bring them up and let them sink or swim
The owners and players should bring in Jared Kushner to mediate. If he could he could get the UAE and Bahrain to normalize relations with Israel, MAYBE he could get MLB owners and players to agree not to destroy baseball.
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You are joking right? Thanks for the laugh.
That is about as likely as Jared the convict from hoagie commercials.
For those who still don’t understand, Manfred speaks for the owners. He’s not a free agent.
And the Lorax speaks for the trees, but he still has an axe to grind.
My best guess: Both sides will posture for a while, and eventually the owners will get MUCH more of what they want than the players. If MLB were to dissolve tomorrow, pretty much every owner has plenty of money and other business interests to sustain them. What else can the players do? There are limited spots available overseas, they won’t make anywhere near the money, the skill set doesn’t translate well to real life and they have a relatively short window in which to earn. The owners will mostly get their way at some point, both sides will release meek conciliatory statements and both sides will then continue to harvest money.
I hope the lockout drags on and leads to the cancellation of the entire season. I was a Tigers season ticket holder for 20 years and today I could care less about the game. First, today’s product is horrible with the total domination of the game by home runs and strike outs. It is boring and nearly all the subtleties of the game are gone. Baseball has become a good cure for insomnia. Then there’s the greed. It’s beyond ridiculous how many guys are being given over 15 million dollars a year and they don’t even deliver results. It’s pathetic and absurd. Then there’s the issue of so few Americans in the game. It’s depressing I feel like I am watching some league in Venezuela. Baseball has become a joke IMO. It was once a great game but no longer. Hopefully they don’t reach an agreement and give us a break from it for awhile.
I am curious, if you could care less why take the effort to come here ( psst a baseball site ) to say you could care less .
That was not the focus of my commentary but personal attacks appear to be the focus of yours.
I was asking why you commented if you care less that is hardly a personal attack. That thin skinned?
Why do you want Americans (P.S. Venezuela is in South America) rather than just the best players? The salaries get taxed.
While both sides deserve some blame for this, the Owners are 100% to blame on one aspect of these negotiations: the competitive balance tax threshold.
The Owners have not increased the competitive balance tax threshold to keep up with inflation or the rise in player salaries. They’ve willfully & disingenuously done this to create a de facto salary cap.
I read an article sometime ago that if the competitive balance tax threshold had kept pace with inflation, the first threshold would be about $250 million now. The players have every right to complain about the competitive balance tax threshold being kept artificially low by the owners.
The starting point for the competitive balance tax threshold should be $250 million dollars now & future increases should be tied directly to either 1) inflation or 2) increases in MLB revenues.
It’s easy for fans, like myself, to get upset about men making millions to play a game we love to play for nothing, BUT why should the Owners get to make more & more of the money we pay, when NONE of us would pay one penny to watch the Owners?
It’s perfectly reasonable that the players — including MiLB players — should get at least 75% of the profits from the game because NONE OF US would pay one penny to watch the owners do anything. The Players are The Product, NOT the owners, so the players deserve the lion’s share of the profits.
You must be off your rocker. The guy who is taking all the financial risk only gets 25% of the profit? No business owner would agree to that. Not one that wants to be in business for long anyway.
You either never worked in a Big Corporation, Jdt8312, or you weren’t paying very close attention to their P&L statements.
There isn’t a Big Corporation in the U.S. that would turn its nose up to a guaranteed profit of 25% a year. (Btw, I worked in the Financial/Investing field for almost 20 years.)
Ask yourself this, Jdt8312, if your Bank or Broker offered you a 25% return every year, would you say, “No, that’s not enough of a return on my money”? Of course you wouldn’t!
Players have anywhere from 1 year to 20 years (if they’re damn lucky) to make their money. Owners can continue to make money for Decades!
You are in the financial services for 20 years? On an investment of say 2 billion what is 25% of that? ROI .
So the Avg team could take 500m in profits before paying the players?
You do know that a 25% net profit on say 400m in revenue is 100m? Now 100m is a ROI of 5% not 25. Lot’s of places these guys could invest 2b and make more then 5% return.
Love how guys come on here saying they are ” experts” in a certain field and really have no idea what they are talking about.
If you work jn the investment field I am so glad I am not one of your clients. Seriously guy- go read up on ROI .
You either NO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about returns on investing or you’re just being disingenuous.
NO ONE expects to make 25% a Year on a Billion dollars. Only a fool would think that was possible. Btw, profit is calculated AFTER deducting for all expenses, including player salaries.
I was OBVIOUSLY referring to the YEARLY profits earned by each team.
It’s amazing how gullible some fans are. If the owners weren’t making big bucks, they would Open Their Books to the press & show them that they’re loosing money. But they haven’t done that, have they?
If the owners were really hurting, they’d jump at the chance to prove it in the press.
better be careful not to cut your own throats… baseball is not the most popular sport anymore already
Millions of fans have ditched the game due to the ways it’s changed, the greed, and the fact it can put you to sleep if you watch it for too long.
If the league is smart, there is plenty of room to increase MLB global tv revenue.