A recent report from Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith gives Toronto fans something to look forward to after MLB’s lockout draws to a close. In addition to having trade discussions prior to the league’s halt on transactions, the Jays reportedly also have money to spend on additional free agents. Nicholson-Smith identifies acquiring an infielder and additional pitching as remaining needs for the club.
It was already expected that the Blue Jays would raise their payroll coming off a highly encouraging 2021 season, but the offseason to date has offered mixed signals about how high the payroll can stretch. Despite handing out a big dollar contract to Kevin Gausman (and a smaller dollar contract to Yimi Garcia) the organization has already seen its three top free agents sign for rich contracts elsewhere.
The Jays ended the 2021 season with $154MM in payroll obligations, per Cot’s Contracts. Including arbitration projections, RosterResource currently places the Toronto payroll, for luxury tax purposes, at $161MM. Nicholson-Smith’s report, though, indicates that the $161MM mark can continue to be pushed further.
It’s also worth noting that the Jays most likely trade chips coming into the offseason were thought to be of the catcher variety. Numerous teams have now picked the catcher market clean, with the Yankees and perhaps the Guardians as the only remaining contenders with questions at the position. An intra-division trade seems unlikely and the Blue Jays certainly have non-catcher prospect capital to deal from, but a lack of demand for one of Toronto’s most abundant resources may drive them to upgrade via free agency.
Fortunately for the 91-win team, the free agent market still has options for a front office looking to upgrade its infield. Kris Bryant and, if he’s open to a position change, Trevor Story can be had at the right price to cover third base. If Toronto is aiming for a more modest expenditure, they can also target the lefty-batting Kyle Seager or reunite with switch-hitting Jonathan Villar to compliment Santiago Espinal at the hot corner. These latter two options would serve as insurance in case Espinal is unable to build on his strong 2021 performance or Cavan Biggio fails to bounce back.
The pitching market is less flush with options but continues to carry upside at various price points. Carlos Rodon and Kenley Jansen represent two players who, for a premium, can help anchor a rotation and bullpen, respectively. Looking into Danny Duffy or old friend Ryan Tepera would serve a similar function for a lower cost, should the Jays prefer to splash their funds around more evenly.
Of course, just yesterday it was reported that Toronto expressed interest in left-hander Yusei Kikuchi (courtesy of MLB Network’s Jon Heyman). For reference on how much the lefty may cost, MLBTR predicted a two-year $20MM contract for the starting pitcher. Yesterday’s report portrayed a competitive market for the lefty, however, with multiple three-year offers potentially shifting the projected amount it may take to sign Kikuchi. Regardless of who baseball’s best team north of the border pursues, it’s clear they will be active when they’re next able.
I’d be happy with them bringing in Kikuchi for the 4th or 5th spot and shifting Pearson to the 7th or 8th inning Ala Aaron Sanchez
Sign Seagar for a year at some inflated contract to bring in a LHH 3rd baseman, he can bat 7th or 8th.
Of course the dream is to get Jram from the Indians, I mean Guardians
What about a deal with the Marlins for Brian Anderson? The fish still need a bat with pop. What would the Jays give in return?
Grich and prospect or Lourdes but he’d probably be Anderson as be part of a package for him.
Curiious whether the English language is something that is taught in Canada. We already have ‘t04’ telling us that something that has happened twice already can “never: happen, leaving us wondering what he thinks ‘never’ means; and calling the Toronto FO a “hunch of idiots” who should “live for the rest of their live’s” regretting” signing a top free agent.
Now we have a ‘bigdaddyt’ informing us “but he’d probably be Anderson as he part of a package for him”. Google Translate does not detect any language here.
Are you at all curious if it’s something that is taught in the US?
Best Screenname Ever – Nice spelling on curious….
Not that I disagree with your sentiment, but can you explain what “curiious” means? That’s not English neither. 😉
If you’re going to be “that guy” you should probably spell check first.
Screenname – I counted 4 grammatical errors in your post, along with one spelling error. I thought you should know.
Why would the Marlins trade Anderson for Grichuk or Gurrel? Prospects would have to be pretty nice.
We spell Karen with a silent j. That bother you?
Y’all want Randal Grichuk? Lol
Marlins have been adding, not subtracting, credible hitters.
Freeman is the pipe dream, Vlad to DH, sign a guy like Seager for 3b, and I guess try Biggio/Espinal at 2b, or trade one of the extra OF to fill one of those spots. I’m fine with Kikuchi. Need some bullpen depth as well. Jays have done well with reclamation projects in recent yrs.
Problem I see is not fat Vlad is a really good first basemen and doesn’t deserve to be a DH after such a strong season at 1st.
I’d give him the carrot of some time at 3B. Skinny vladdy will probably be better.
Isn’t Pearson supposed to be a starter? I know he’s been injured a lot but he’s always projected to have nasty stuff. I also don’t think he limits walks well, which would make him a better fit for 4th or 5th spot than a 7th or 8th inning guy.
If Pearson is a starter, he’ll be in the minors again. Maybe on something like the 2 and 5 inning alternating appearances schedule he was on a couple of years ago. If he’s going to do that, why not just let him have a multi-inning role out of the major league pen if he’s good enough to get major league hitters out?
Last season the only realistic choice was a bullpen role. We don’t have a great starting sample size and given the premium on starting pitching to either cover his slot and / or leverage as a trade chip down the road they’ll want him in the rotation until he works himself out of a job.
Let’s just not use him in the big leagues. Not everything needs to be about next year. Plus I’d rather have him stretched out for inevitable injuries. He will get a chance
Not at this point. His injury history and thus lack of innings means he doesn’t have the strength and/or stamina to be a starter for a full season right now. A 1-year bullpen stint as a multi-inning guy to build that arm up for a future starting role is not a bad idea.
No Seager or Story please ! I remember Tulo who greatly disappointed me by being my Fav SS
Bryant is the guy they need to land !
I also agree with Kikuchi !
In the immortal words of that iconic Blue Jays fan, to4:
“to4
This why the Jays will never win a WS. How can they pay Gausman the same amount or even slightly more rather than offering this to Ray who became a Cy winner with us !!!!
I really hope Gausman turns out the way that they live for the rest of their live’s regretting it. What a hunch of idiots !
7
REPLYFLAGMUTE”
Every word, poetry. And people talk about Metsfan22
Did you just have that saved or something…? Why?
It’s iconic now
“REPLYLFLAGMUTE” is just
It’s a terrible point of view and the fact that you saved it makes it even weirder.
Going in to 2021 no one would have taken Ray above Gausman, so you’re using one year of data to make such a bold statement.
Reality is that the jays probably offered the same to Ray but his camp didn’t accept, though they could do better, 5 million, less taxes, opt out .
Jays didn’t want to get shut out of the top tier of the pitching market and struck on a player they’ve been after for years.
I’m not saying Gausman will work out better than Ray, but anyone who claims to know one will and one won’t is a tool.
Hear me out, if I was gonna be flying a ton like Ray and Guasman will and I’ve made over 100 Mil either way, I might take 5 mil less to not have to deal with customs when flying into my stadium after every road series. No joke
tstats. It’s a lot more than 5 million.
The tax savings it’s prob around 15 million, plus the opt is huge, if Ray does have a couple more good years he can be back on the market at 33 and try to get a few more years added.
Tstats do you think the team flys coach or something? It’s a full sized plane that is chartered and operated effectively as a private jet. “Customs” is not the same as it is for most. Cannot imagine this is a driving factor in almost anyones decision over where to play.
Do you know what Nexus is?
I saved it because it’s funny.
Not really, it’s a weak troll lol.
This post has nothing on the stuff MetsFan22 says.
Really, I think Gausman is a better bet. Longer track record of good pitching. Maybe he won’t win a Cy Young but I think he is also less likely to regress far from his previous production.
Keep in mind that they paid Ray after his horrible season of 2020. It was a smart move since Ray has nasty stuff but I’m not sure Gausman will be the same.
I think Jays need to get their more developed talent in line. Relying too much on free agency has not proved well for a lot of teams lately (Mets, Angels, Blue Jays). The young core the Blue Jays have is what has powered them through.
So the FA of last year Ray and Siemen did not work out well for the Jays?
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Jays trading for Kimbrel, possibly for Thornton?
This article makes me so happy, if the jays get another starter that for sure puts Pearson into the pen. Which with Garcia added and incumbents of Romano, Richards, Cimber, Strippling and Mayza form a pretty decent bullpen.
It would be great to get:
Option A: Kikuchi, Seager, Tepera and Jansen.
Option B: Kikuchi, Wilmer Flores, Tepera and Jansen and send Grichuk+Biggio to get JRam from Cleveland.
Lol Grichuk + Biggio won’t even get you a signed Jram jersey
Add Pearson
Pearson has seen his stock decline drastically. For JRam you’re looking at one of the blue jays actual best prospects, guys of the caliber of Austin Martin if they still had him
Sure add Pearson, and Lourdes, and maybe if by Grichuk you meant Groshans they might not hang up
Still not even close.
2 years of control on a team friendly deal for an MVP candidate.
JRam to the Jays is the ultimate dream but it will cost them.
I’d be fine with a package center Ed around Kirk and Groshans you need to load off at least one catcher in a trade this off-season (with Moreno coming up) and then offer maybe another major league talent like Espinal? Ik it might take more but if you wanna win you gotta go all in
lol
That was funny. Any Jose Ramirez trade would hurt, and hurt a lot.
Any Ramirez trade is starting with Moreno. Gunner Hoglund, either Groshans or Martinez and whatever else Cleveland asks for
agree that it starts with Moreno…. sadly, that’s where it also ends.. Unless Mark Shapiro & Ross Atkins have a complete change of heart.. will a deal go beyond the phone hanging up.. Hoglund is unpoild and uninjured.. The Jays would prefer he not be in the deal.. Nate Pearson.. is looking more and more as a reliever risk.. He could be in Hoglund’s place.. Groshans would be okay. but, Orelvis Martinez wouldn’t become the best SS candidate in the Guardians’ system (Angel would be better).. So Gurriel and or Kevin Smith and or Santiago Espinal could be considered.. A full deal would probably require the Guardians to add an RP.. We’ll see
RSox
It would take Moreno + but what you mention is a big overpay . As good as he is, there are 2 yrs of control , not 3 and that has a big effect on his surplus value.
Moreno+ Biggio+ Smith would get the conversation started and maybe a prospect in the 12-20 range on top.
Cleveland holds all the cards with one of the more sought after trade commodities in the game. Not only can they ask for an overpay, they can expect to receive one too
Cleveland will re-sign Jram to an extension. Moreno is our only untouchable prospect.
Cleveland can ask for Mars and Venus does not mean they will get it, the longer they hold him beyond this post season the more that asset will diminish- rival GMs also know this.
At the deadline, it was reported that Cleveland was not interested in trading Jose Ramirez unless overwhelmed. I don’t see that viewpoint changing this offseason. Teams are calling Cleveland, not the other way around.
Thing to remember about the Guardians:
1. They just added 11 prospects to their 40 man roster so adding more prospects may not make sense at this time.
2. Cleveland is known to set their price and not vary from that price.
3. Cleveland is rebranding as the Guardians. Not very smart to trade Ramirez while needed to establish that new brand.
4.. It has been rumored that Cleveland is looking for a minority owner. They spent more when John Sherman, now the KC owner, was a minority owner.
5. A possible extension. Reportedly Ramirez wants to stay in Cleveland.
6. The new CBA. Will their be a salary floor? Other changes?
I don’t see Ramirez being traded at this time.
the red sox are also considered in need at the catching position, your everyday catcher hitting 4 home runs wont cut it.. pitch framing aside, hes an automatic out.
Who do you think they should pursue? Aside from guys like Realmuto, Perez, and Grandal who are all off the table i can’t see anyone that sticks out as a significant upgrade to be worth an additional cost than what they’re paying Vasquez and Plawecki.
Hitting from a catcher to me is a bonus and lest we forget who hit the walkoff bomb in the ALDS this year. There’s needs elsewhere more so than at catcher. A right handed bat, a lefty reliever, and maybe another starter would be great before even considering that catching position.
The Red Sox were supposedly close to trading for Jacob Stallings before he was dealt to Miami. Stallings is in many ways a worse hitter than Vazquez so the Sox are obviously prioritizing defense first behind the plate.
If you think Vazquez is bad than you must be too young to remember the Rich Gedman/John Marzano/Tony Pena days
Tepera, Rodon and Seager please
Would like to stay away from Story and Bryant unless they come much cheaper than anticipated.
Cleve isn’t ready to trade Jram yet, but they will eventually. We all know it’s going to happen
Kikuchu will be better than Rodon because his arm is not healthy
Rodon has a higher ceiling and will only take a 1 year deal, rather keep options open. Don’t like the idea of giving kikuchu 3 years
Why you think 1 year? Because MLBTR predicted it? Pretty sure he’ll sign for 3 or more with an opt out.
Only way he gets a 3 year deal is if it has a modest base with a lot of incentives. Which to me would still be better than kikichu.
If Rodon is healthy he’s a huge boost, so that’s why it’s worth the risk. Kikuchu is a toss up and there’s no guarantees he will be better than the current crop of 5th start options in house
I agree, there are only so many high $$ 5-7 yr contracts a team can safely handle without mortgaging their future. Have to keep an eye to extend Bo and Vlad and possibly Teo .
Short term 1-3 yr contracts now should be the focus.
Agreed.
Team rebrand this year and their payroll is already ultra low. They won’t move him before the deadline I Don’t think. And only then if they’re out of the race.
Biggio, top prospects to Oakland for Matt Chapman and one of their SP (Manaea, Bassitt, or Montas)
C Jansen
1B Guerrero
2B Espinal
SS Bichette
3B Chapman
LF Gurriel
CF Springer
RF Girchuk
DH Hernandez
1. Springer, CF
2. Bichette, SS
3. Guerrero, 1B
4. Gurriel, LF
5. Chapman, 3B
6. Hernandez, DH
7. Girchuk, RF
8. Jansen, C
9. Espinal, 2B
Gausman
Berrios
Ryu
Manaea/Montas/Bassitt
Pearson
Did you trade Manoah to Oakland? Because please don’t
Forgot about Manoah. Even better. Pearson to the setup role?
Yah originally I didn’t like the idea of putting him the pen, but it’s not a bad way for him to get a healthy year under his belt and expand from there.
With how little he’s pitched it’s going to be tough for the jays to get him to 150+ innings. Put him in the pen but try to use him multiple innings. Get him up to 80–90 innings that way in 2023 his arm is built up for a run at a starters job
What happened to Manoah you trade him to Oakland?
I would prefer Ketel Marte over Chapmen.
Biggio + Groshans
Can’t see Marte as a better fit than Chapman… Marte plays 2nd or outfield Biggio/Espinal are better suited to play 2nd Chapman has the better glove anyone that says other wise clearly don’t get stats (also two platinum gloves will back up that claim) and Chapmans Bat might be slightly worse but he’s got more pop plus I think playing in Rogers Centre for 80ish games a season will boost his numbers a bunch. IMO out of the two Chapman is by far the superior fit
Where is Manoah
And pray-tell where is Manoah? Obviously, you’re way off base!!!
Jays still need a #1 starter via trade. There are no #1’s left in F/A.
Trade anyone except Moreno and Groshans.
The Jays still need a 3rd base and to replace Semien’s production.. Bryant please.
Vlad Jr is at firstbase and not moving off it. Ever.
Ray was offered the Gausman contract and took the bigger offer. He called it a better fit. It is really called greed. Longterm, I believe the Jays signed the much better pitcher.
Rumor is Ray is unvaxxed so I’m guessing if he ever got that offer it was with the condition that he get the shot. If he wasn’t willing, a return was never in the picture. Doubt it was greed considering Ray seemed to like it in Toronto.
Agree 100% JD.
Interesting angle, makes sense. I would presume there will be some language in the new CBA regarding vaccinations. No matter their position their are still national mandates and policies to deal with.
Jimmertee the contract Ray signed was far better for Ray and far worse for the team. Hence why I like the gausman deal better. The full no trade, the extra $5M, the opt out effectively making the last three years a player option and the trade assignment bonus make it a no brainer. Add in the tax savings of around $1.5M per year (only half the games are taxed in the home state) on the difference between tax rates in Washington (39%) and Ontario (54%) and it becomes more of a no brainer. I don’t understand how anyone can talk about “greed” when if another firm called and offered them the same job for an effective 15% raise with better terms almost everyone would take it immediately. Quite the armchair athlete comment.
I wish I could “like” your comment more than once. Of course Ray made the right choice. I don’t think he is concerned about what a casual fan thinks.
He’s not even an armchair athlete – he’s an armchair scout.
He’s a front step athlete. No one will even let him into their living room
How do you get 39% tax rate in Seattle? Sales tax is not even close to that. There is no state tax. If you really have a huge tax eversion you can drive 3 hrs to Oregon and buy high priced stuff there they don’t have a sales tax and you can stay in your car to get because they don’t think people there are smart enough to pump their own gas.
I do not think you will be getting what you want from crap K. He has a good game or two then sucks. There was a stretch I said he is a no brainer to get his contract renewed. Then the real crap K showed back up. Then ended the season getting worse. We went to a 6 pitcher rotation because of him. Haven’t heard if they will stick to it. I think it depends on how some of the kids look.
Lastly if you want a GG caliber 3rd bm Seager is your guy. On the East Coast or East Div you probably don’t see him play much. I wish they would have signed him for a 2 year contract. This is not from a homer but a fan that is not sure they would get a great D player and a clutch hitter. In closing forget you ever saw crap K and hope the Yankees pick him up. Go after Seager you won’t find a better 3rd bm and yes I know Bryant is still out there. Bryant may have a bit more flexibility but is not in the same league as Seager that is from a loyal fanboy.
> compliment
should be “complement”
Jimmertee as you have me on mute ( for whatever reason, maybe I disagree with you and that hurts your feelings )
There is 0 chance the Jays get a #1 in trade without including 1 if not both of Groshans and Moreno.
Do you seriously think a team will trade a young controllable #1 type Star SP for Biggio and Grich?
You always talk about “needs” well why not put your so called “expertise” on display and give us all an example of this mythical #1 you would trade for and who you would trade to acquire him.
Every team has their ‘Clint Frazier’ types 🙂
Solve 2 problems. Trade with D’Backs for Ketel Marte and Madison Baumgartner. New infielder to replace Semian and the extra veteran starter with playoff history. D’Backs are probably looking to cut salaries (MadBaum has 2 years left at $20 mill plus) and need proven young MLB players in lineup. Send Grichuk (they need outfielder), Groshans, Pearson, and prospect.. Losing Grichuks salary compensates for some of MadBaums salary.
If I’m Ross Atkins the first thing I’m doing after the lockout is calling the Reds.
Reds gets:
Pearson
Groshans
Choice of Grichuk or Gurriel
Jays get:
Castillo
Suarez
Low level prospect (if Gurriel chosen)
I doubt the Reds would bring down Castillo’s trade value so much by tying him to Suarez but ya never know.
I love the idea of hitting up the reds. That deal looks more like a Sonny Gray deal, not Castillo.
This is a great offer that makes sense for both teams. I think that the Jays should try to go after RP help first though since it cost them so many games last year. Sign Jansen and I hear Hader is on the market. Two mid/upper level prospects should get the job done.
Choice of Grichuk or Gurriel is the easiest choice of all time
I would love to see the Jays look into deals with Miami, Cincinnati, Oakland or Cleveland.
I would target one of Miamis young pitchers (Lopez or Hernandez). I hear the Marlins like Kirk. You could get creative and try a three team deal to get a pitcher, send Kirk to Miami, Gurriel to Houston and have Astros throw in a prospect or two to Marlins.
I’d target Mahle and Moustakas from Reds. Not sure what a deal would look like there.
As so many people have said you target Chapman and one of their pitchers.
Cleveland is the pipe dream. If you could get JRam at a reasonable cost (highly unlikely) then I think that is the play. He fits on so many levels.
I’d love to see the Jays target a young pitcher via trade (like Lopez) and then sign a Conforto and Johan Camargo
Marlins made their move on a catcher already
Pleeeaaasee not Villar. A month of him was more than enough.
Why do so many people seem to think the Jays should be able to get JRam for a bag of balls and a Kendrys Morales game used jersey?
I think it’s because they don’t see the difference between JRam who is locked up cheap for a couple more seasons while they have that incredible young pitching staff they should be leveraging and Lindor who was slated to make a lot of money in his final year immediately after the pandemic altered many small market teams’ budgets.
It’s also driven by Toronto media who don’t fully grasp the value or who might have it within the organization that would head the other way. “They tried to get him at the deadline” means “they are going to get him now”. They don’t see it as they weren’t comfortable with the price so spent the prospect capital on Berrios instead.
I feel like the Jays should spend most of their remaining $ on pitching. Their offense is already pretty loaded, and Gabriel Moreno, Orelvis Martinez and Jordan Groshans all look like future cornerstones that could all be ready for the show sooner rather than later. I see them going after a short term option at 3B (Kyle Seager?), and rolling with Biggio at 2B to open the season. Groshans could be ready sometime in the first half, and they have several promising utility infielders in Espinal, Otto Lopez and Kevin Smith that can step in if Seager or Biggio were to struggle. I felt like Eduardo Escobar would have been an ideal fit for them, but signing Seager for one season until Martinez or Groshans is ready to take over 3B isn’t the worst idea.
I completely agree on the Escobar comment. He would have been a great fit. Seager would be a good fit too.
I have a feeling that should Biggio get regular playing time in 2022 hes going to have a lot of fans and commentators eating crow.
Sure his ceiling isn’t as high as Bo’s but you can’t teach his pitch recognition and patience. I think with some health and a move back to his natural position, he could be a consistent 3-4 WAR player.
I can easily see Biggio being a 3-4 War player which is very serviceable. I don’t think he is cut out for the “super utility role” let him focus on one position to max his offensive/defensive potential. With that being said I would not be said seeing him included in a package for Marte.
Biggio has to stay healthy and he’ll be fine.
Whats up with the espinal hesitancy? The guy’s glove and bat play. 376 OBP and 311 ba. His splits look good although I get the impression he’s not Senor Clutch. He’s like that throw in player that punches above his weight class but no one believes in him because the book on him says mediocre. They don’t think he’s going to age well with more playing time?
I think that they view him more as an active utility infielder than a starter. He definitely played well enough last season to get a look in my opinion.
For me, it’s less about him than the options behind him. If he’s the major league utility guy or even in a platoon, that’s still a promotion from last year where he was the optionable depth guy and he got lots of opportunity. The .307 xwOBA with not a lot of power looks more like the surface results from ’20 and that’s definitely not an everyday guy and if you haven’t addressed that depth, you’re back to scouring the waiver wire for Jake Lamb unless you feel really good about Kevin Smith being able to make some contact at the major league level.
For me, if you go get a starting caliber infielder who can play 3B, Espinal provides depth that makes Otto Lopez into a pretty nice trade piece.
Espinal’s issue is a lack of Power.. GM’s love the long ball
Is Jacob Stallings really all the upgrading Miami needs at catcher? I don’t see why they wouldn’t bring in another, younger catcher to platoon with, or even start over, Stallings. Yes, Stallings is a Gold Glover, but his offensive upside is non-existent.
Kirk for Luzardo would give Miami a bat behind the plate and Toronto a high-upside project for Pete Walker.
Non-existent? The guy batted .246 and drove in 53. That’s decent considering he’s a platinum glover behind the dish. He’s arguably the best defensive catcher in baseball and I’d trade that any day for a guy who’s going to bat 8th. He’s going to do wonders with that Marlins pitching staff (which is a pretty solid staff). Sure, bringing in a catcher who can hit and be your backup is a good idea but Stallings will be the regular guy behind the dish so how much do you want to give up to bring in a bench bat?
Whoever they opt to replace Semien with won’t be able to replicate his production. Same goes for Gausman replacing Ray. The best they can hope for right now is whoever they use to replace Matz in the rotation with (Kikuchi, Rondon, Kershaw etc.) will hopefully offset some of what they lost with Ray but I don’t see how the Jays can improve through free agency. Unless there is some massive breakout by Biggio (which I guess is somewhat possible) they’re going to struggle to be in wildcard contention. They’re going to have to go the trade route IMO. Maybe bring in Castillo from the Reds. A guy like Chapman from the A’s. Maybe someone like Castellanos to DH.
You don’t have to directly replace any of those guys really. So you’re way way off projections.
IF (big IF) Springer is healthy you replaced Semien already at the plate.
A full year of Berrios and Manoah helps compensate any gaps between 2021 Ray vs 2022 Gausman. Remember the goal is the to win games, so winning 5-2 is the same as winning 5-3, with the Jays offense they really just need average to good innings.
The other piece you are conveniently forgetting is how many games they blew in the first half because their bullpen was Romano + a bunch of soon to be unemployed relievers. The full year of the bullpen upgrades alone drastically improve the teams outlook in 2022. If the 2021 jays had Richards and cimber early in the season they probably challenge (but fall short) of the division.
keep in mind a full season at Rogers centre will yield a better home record than last year. If the Jays had played at home Instead of being exiled to the US they would’ve easily been 100 win team last year.
Manos- You are forgetting a couple key points.
1- Ray/Matz- Gausman and a full year of Berrios and Manoah should easily replicate that lost production.
2- Semien- Any sort of bounce back from Biggio to 19/20 levels, 130 games ( 52 more from Springer ) + whoever else they add + the potential arrival of Moreno should more then make up for the lose of Semien.
You’re so obviously WRONG!
Haussmann pitched in the NL West, against the Padres, Dodgers , etc and finished 14-6 with a .281 era. I see Gausman providing exactly what we need with his super-nasty splitter, he was only one “K” per nine innings behind Robbie Ray, but also allowed less than one HR per nine innings where Robbie Ray suffered.l. Our roster is complete with signing Kris Bryant to play 3B, signing Kenley Jansen for the pen, and young Carlos Rodon as another lefty starter!!!
possibly either lefty Carlos Rodon or
I’m not at all a believer in a JRam trade. I don’t think Bryant is the right high priced multi year contract to have alongside the Springer deal. Unless they ban the shift, I don’t see Kyle Seager’s decline slowing. I also much prefer Biggio at 2B and Espinal up the middle in platoon/utility role. So who is a realistic target for 3B?
Someone mentioned Ryan McMahon on here once. I like that idea, but the Rockies don’t trade often and are looking at moving him up the middle.
Can Jeff McNeil handle 3B? He might profile as the type of bat that diversifies Toronto’s lineup.
Any other ideas?
KamKid
I agree with you on Byrant and Seager. Byrant is going to take 5-6 years and we have enough of those on the books now until we extend Bo/Vlad and maybe Teo.
I like the idea of Moreno at 3b come mid season. ( I am not that high on Groshans ) From all reports he is athletic enough. Go spend on another high end set up guy who can cover as closer if need be. Add someone like Rodon and roll with Biggio/Espinal or trade for Marte and leave Espinal at 3b until Moreno is ready.
Another option would be a Chapman for Groshans swap straight up.
Chapman right. I forgot the most obviously available trade candidate. Not entirely sure what I think about Chapman. One of those depends on the cost things I guess.
It’s quite likely Ray indicated he’d be signing elsewhere, notified the Jays of same out of simple courtesy, then the Jays pivoted to Gausman. Jays have the pieces for a solid, prolonged run, though I see Pearson in the bullpen.
If they don’t want to offload prospects for 3B (Chapman, Ramirez, et al), they could spend on Kyle Seager and trade for another SP (Oakland, Cincy?)
They need pitching. A stud #1 and #2 starter for starters but they again couldn’t get that done before lockout
Berrios, Guasman and Manoah is a very nice top 3. They started last year with Ryu, Stripling and Zeuch.
Those are great 3,4,5
Last year’s team was average at best
If that was your 3,4,5 it might be the best rotation in history.
Last years team won 91 games while having to play their home games in 3 different places.
Take a walk
Jays were victims right lol? Umm you’re saying a rookie and Gausman would be part of best rotation in history being 4/5? Lmao how many games has Manoah won in his career? He could be great but he also could be mediocre at best as most after hitters/teams will make necessary adjustments. Besides last year when was Gausman top of the order? Do you think Ryu is a #1 or #2 still? Are you watching him pitch? He’s definitely not shown that as of late. You probably were disappointed and shocked the Jays never made playoffs last year too, maybe you need to take a walk and start watching other ball clubs play on a consistent basis so you can see how weak and lack of depth they have pitching
How many teams have a better 1-4 than the Jays? They don’t have a true ace but they have some pretty good depth albeit with some question marks. Every team in the league has a lot of questions marks though
You sounds immature and unintelligent. Zero reason for me to carry on a conversation with you.
Go look at more pitcher win/loss stats .
A #1 and a #2?? Realism would be a great help .
Another pitcher with #2, # 3 upside would be great. SI already has the Jays having the deepest staff in the ALE. But you want a #1 and a #2.
Maybe we’re watching different pitchers but Ryu is definitely not a #1 or #2 on a contender
I agree. I think Guasman and Berrios are both #2s on a contention team (Guasman last year on the giants). Manoah is the #3 starter on over 75% of major league teams right now. Ryu being a #4 is a huge win.. They need another Matz type low risk #5 option to pair with the Stripling/Pearson. But they did a lot to address the rotation before the lockout imo.
All I’m saying is if they actually added 2 studs to rotation they could contend, maybe for division, heck maybe even win a series in playoffs if team learns how to play playoff ball. Both starters would need to be better than anything they have to be a contender. People get wrapped up in 1 thru 5. Too many what ifs nowadays with injuries etc.. They need depth and talent up front
If they could add another front line arm it wouldn’t hurt obviously. They do need to address depth as well. But its unrealistic to assume they are going to add 2 studs in additions to adding Guasman. Or is Guasman a stud and you thought they should’ve added another one?
When it comes down to it its all about comparing to the other teams in the AL and i’m not sure any rotation in the AL East is better right now.
True
You’re both right. Do the Jays have a bona fide #1 tank who’s going to anchor that staff for years? Right now maybe?? Manoah could turn into that and it could be this year. But would it be better to have gotten Ray back or even landed Sherzer? Also yes. Would it be better to land Castillo or Manea?? Yes!!
Do they Jay’s really need that? Maybe. I don’t know, you don’t know. Jimmer doesn’t know. Metsfan22 doesn’t know.
Should the Jays upgrade from Pearson/Stripling at the 5, Yes. But only to cover the course of the (hopefully) 162 game grind. You don’t use your #4 or 5 guys typically come playoffs Anyway.
So the questions are….
Can the Jays offense produce at a high level without Semien? I think it can and should
Can the Jays upgrade on Stripling at 5 and push Pearson to the 7th inning to upgrade 2 areas with 1 acquisition?
Is Barrios/Gaussman/Manoah enough to limit runs while Vlad/Bo/Teo/Springer etc produce enough in a playoff run?
Guess that’s why we’re all so excited to watch the games play out.
Saying your rotation is better than the Yankees is heresy. You are safe though they won’t scroll down this far. Replies too long and don’t say Yankees in them.
Based off of some of those options it seems to depend on where the Jays see Groshans in his development. If they think Groshans is ready early then you sign Villar to pair with Espinal in the short term. If they think he will need significant more time then sign Seager. I don’t see Toronto emptying the farm for Chapman. And given the hip issues Chapman has had artificial turf may not be the best thing for him
Thats very true. I think they need that vet stopgap 3B/2B but if they feel like Groshans or Moreno are ready mid season they might not go for the big trade/big FA which I’m fine with
Or… we can use them as trade chips to land a lefty stud like Sean Manaea!!
Gausman had a good year as a #3/4 starter for the best team in baseball last year. Hadn’t done much in the past 4 prior seasons. Hopefully he does well against better starting opposition pitching for the Jays
Dakona not sure if you are being serious or just being a troll.
Gausman a #3/4 last year? Go look at his stats side by side with Robbie Ray ( You know the guy who won the AL Cy Young )
I have a lot of faith in Gausman… he’s definitely a late bloomer and can thrive under pressure as the Ace… he’s got real nasty stuff… we can’t count on Big Kimchi anymore.. he’s just so inconsistent and perhaps the AL is a bit too tough for him!
The top rotation guys should be in order: Gausman, Berrios, Ryu, Manoah, Pearson (if 100% healthy). Ryu should prosper with less pressure tagged as the Ace. If the plan is for Pearson to be in the bullpen next season, then they should target Manaea in a trade!!
For infielders, they should sign either K. Seager or Lowrie or both given the right prices… and bring back Dickerson!! This team really needs some lefty bats to balance out the offense!!
Buyer beware on Lowrie. The only place he seems to be able to stay on the field is Oakland
LOL.. is that true?? but at least he’s a better batter than K. Seager… oh well, you get what you pay… and I don’t think the Jays will splash more insane $ on minor holes… would be a huge bonus if Espinal can develop into an everyday INF!
Looking at their current batters, they only got Biggio and McGuire as lefty bats and McGuire is probably backup again… so if the Mgmt is serious about next season, they really gotta bring 2 decent lefty/switch hitters!!
Looks like plenty of options to pick up…
The Cheap: Brad Miller, Villar, Dickerson, Moreland
The Decent: E. Rosario, J. Pederson
The Hight Risk-High Reward: Conforto, Schwarber, K. Seager