2:04PM: This afternoon’s session between the two sides concluded after seven minutes, according to ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links). There won’t be any more negotiations today, and the lockout is expected to begin this evening once the current CBA officially expires.
12:46PM: Negotiators from Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association continue to meet this afternoon, though there is still an expectation that the league will commence with a lockout as soon as the current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires at 10:59 CT tonight. Several reports have suggested that the two sides are far enough on several core issues that there is virtually no chance that an actual deal could be reached prior to the deadline, yet that doesn’t mean progress couldn’t still be made as the baseball world enters a work stoppage and a transactions freeze.
In response to the league’s most recent proposal of a 14-team playoff field, the MLBPA has responded with a new proposal of its own, according to ESPN.com’s Jesse Rogers. The union’s latest offer would increase the playoff field to 10 to 12 teams, and also involve a huge overhaul of the current three-division alignment in the AL and NL. Under this new idea, each league would have 15 teams split into two divisions — one with seven teams and one with eight teams — and six AL and NL clubs apiece heading to the postseason.
The union’s proposal also included such notable details as advertising patches to be worn on jerseys, and more big-picture changes to baseball’s revenue-sharing system, the free agent system, and the arbitration process. As well, the MLBPA are looking for a substantial increase in the luxury tax threshold, up to $240MM from the 2021 threshold of $210MM.
Looking at these last two proposals between the two sides, there does appear to be some room for common ground on at least a couple of fronts, even if many of the larger issues remain harder to solve. For instance, it would seem like the postseason will probably end up being expanded in some form, with the specific size to be determined. Also, while one of management’s proposals back in August involved lowering the luxury tax threshold to $180MM and installing a salary floor of $100MM, that idea seems to have been scrapped, based on natural resistance from the union. As per ESPN’s Jeff Passan, MLB’s last proposal involved the idea of the luxury tax line once again being raised by a slight extent, though it wasn’t clear if the threshold would continue to be increased on an annual basis (as in the current CBA).
Therefore, it seems reasonable to speculate that the next CBA will include an elevated luxury tax threshold of some kind, even if the $30MM jump desired by the union doesn’t happen. Left unknown, of course, is what types of penalties will be faced by teams that exceed the tax threshold, as the current system penalty system (an increasingly surchage on the overage and, at maximum, a drop in the draft order and international draft pool subtractions) have already proven to be deterrents to a large portion of baseball’s teams. The MLBPA, of course, would want to see lesser or even no penalties at all in order to create more incentive for teams to spend on roster upgrades.
“When you look at how the 2016 CBA agreement and how that has worked over the past five years, as players, we see major problems in it,” Max Scherzer told The Washington Post’s Chelsea Janes (Twitter links) and other reporters. “Specifically, first and foremost, we see a competition problem and how teams are behaving because of certain rules that are within that. Adjustments have to be made to bring up the competition. As players, that’s critical to us to have a highly competitive league, and when we don’t have that, we have issues.”
How is no penalties at all fundamentally different from having no threshold at all? I don’t want realignment, but 12 teams is better than 14 if they do have to expand. At least there’s starting to be progress toward middle ground.
I suppose there has to be closer to the death.
I have no problem with realignment or with 14 teams, but I guess that’s as a Blue Jays fan supporting a team that very often is 4th best in the AL East and missing the playoffs, when if in a different division would make it through more often.
Shut it down and reset the entire system so the 750 players on 25 man rosters make less …and a lot less. I’d rather see that versus only 30 owners raking in the dough.
You would rather see greedy owners increasing their billions even more, rather than the players we watch increase their millions? No thanks. Give the money to the players, not more to the owners. Players are the reason we are baseball fans in the first place.
The owners take all of the risks
What risks? Show me an owner who is eating Ramen noodles because they are destitute. Both sides need the other in order to maximize their earnings. Players don’t have anywhere to play without someone owning the team, and no one will come see the owners play baseball themselves.
Are you including the owners of A’s and Pirates ? Lol
@desertbull they take the initial risk only when they first buy the team, after that it’s pretty apparent the club self sustains the cost. Braves have to open the books, we have proof of this
The Cubs owner. Lol
I dunno… I root for a baseball team more than I do any player…
“Greedy” lol. What a subjective term. Are you greedy for wanting a raise, or for charging more for whatever work you do? Is one greedy for going to college to improve one’s chances at a better life…and more money?
Or is it good old-fashioned class envy that leads to such terms?
at the beginning there were no owners. just players/kids playing what they enjoyed to do.
Amen
The sad fact is that owners of MLB teams take no risks. Taxpayers pay for the ballparks and everything else needed to build that ballpark and get fans to it. Guaranteed TV contracts along with streaming games and MLB Extra Innings subscriptions more than pay for player payroll and all other overhead. Ticket sales are just icing on the top of the cake.
The players take the risk. Get injured. Your career is over and your income is gone (with the exception of the 15% that are on multi-year deals).
I have never bought a ticket to see an owner sit in a luxury box. Nor will I pay MLB prices to see minor league players. I would be willing to bet that goes for 100% of the MLB fans here.
Both of those guys are pocketing millions. Both of those teams have revenue of at least $250 million per year. So anything less than $125 million means they pocketed the difference.
You forgot to add revenue sharing. So for every Yankees and Dodgers hat sold the Pirates and the Rays pocket some money.
I’m sorry, but I’ve read your comment about 5 times and still can’t figure out what it means. Your last comment seems to contradict your first one. If the money doesn’t go to the players, it would go to the owners, thus, they would be “raking in the dough” even more than before. If anyone thinks lowering player salaries will drive the cost of tickets, ballpark concessions, merchandise, etc, they have no idea how business works in the real world.
Thankfully, that isn’t going to happen.
I assume they mean no penalties in terms of draft picks or international bonus pool, not necessarily that they aren’t taxed on the excess dollars.
Is that dramatically different than no threshold at all? Eh…
What a bunch of maroons. Ahahahaha!
Too many inconsistencies. Raising the luxury tax threshold does not increase competition, which Scherzer claims to want; if anything, it does the opposite. It allows the few huge market teams to bring in more talent at high pay levels while leaving small market teams behind. Instituting a minimum payroll, with a tax penalty, would increase competition.
Other ideas to increase competition:
Institute a draft lottery among non-playoff teams to reduce the benefit of tanking.
Get rid of competitive balance rounds of the draft. The smallest teams get an additional draft pick after the first or second round. The biggest teams have a huge payroll. The ones in the middle get neither advantage.
I don’t mind a higher tax level, but a salary floor is a must. No way Scherzer should be making more than 3 different team’s entire payrolls.
Is ridiculous bro
That’s because those teams ownership is being cheap. They can all afford higher payrolls. Every owner is a billionaire or corporation
can’t speak for all teams but as a Reds fan I wish our owner was a billionaire. he’s the least valuable owner at roughly 450 million personal value and he only talks about not having enough. if he don’t have the money to run a team then he should sell.
Can’t expect owners to constantly be in the red.
If the Mets yankees Dodgers of the world had the financial backing of the reds and rays I doubt they’d have even half the payroll they do.
It’s easy to spend money when your team is making billions.
You don’t make billions by not competing, jerking fans around and being cheap. The Yankees and Dodgers are a brand.
Sure they have large markets, that’s their advantage but the cardinals and braves are both great example of creating consistently strong teams that invest just enough keep things competitive and keep fans engaged.
No reason the reds couldn’t be like that, the reality is their owner is cheap or doesn’t care or both, but not investing in a product is not the way to build a strong brand
Baseball franchises are separate businesses. No owner subsidizes their team from their other revenue streams. So how wealthy they are is irrelevant.
I don’t all the way agree with that.
I agree that just because an owners rich does it mean they are going to operate a loss moving forward.
But most businesses, at some point will spend on the product, brand, marketing etc to improve the business and brand in the long run.
@Schellis 2, I know the Mets appear to be “The New Kid on the block” when it comes to boosting team payroll but I wouldn’t include them in the same sentence as Yankees and Dodgers..just yet! I would give them a few years to see how these initial moves work out!
salary floor/ lower threshold will do exactly that. small market teams will extend their own good players beyond free agency and be competent.
@dusty as a cards fan we should not be placed in the small market category, first of all fox/bally sports pretty much covers all players salaries (the deal is something like 2.2b for 10~13 years iirc which breaks down to about 180~200mil a year) second how mlb determines “small markets” is based on city size not metro area, and this is how stl loopholes the small market because the city is about 400k but the metro area (im just going to use any town within 45mins of stl for this) including stl is about 2.5mil+. to me both of them points should take us out of the small market category
Every team is making more than $250 million per year so every team can afford a $125 million payroll. If they are spending less, their billionaire owners are pocketing the difference.
Half the teams can afford a $200 million payroll or higher including small market teams like San Diego. That is why a CBT threshold of $210 million was not high enough and the $180 million the owners proposed was such a joke. An insult really.
I saw another post that spelled out what the teams were making. An average of $400 million with total revenue for MLB being $12 billion.
HAHAHAHA – owners in the red? How do you figure? They get tens of millions in revenue sharing which almost guarantees a profit (and does if they field a minimum salary team). If they lose money it is because they did a very poor job marketing the team, or blew millions on stupid stuff (like giving 10 year contracts to guys who were over 30).
Their operating income can be in the red. But the value of the franchise goes up. Think of this as a landlord. One bad year your tenant breaks stuff you have to evict them, pay for repairs and lose on a couple month’s rent income. So for that year you are in the red. Yet the property goes up in value. So when you sell you increase your investment
Agreed. I could see a $100M floor and a $350M cap without significant changes to the luxury tax threshold. With a $100M floor, you’d see a few teams trading for players to meet it. For instance, the PTBNL in the Padres trade with the Marlins for Alfaro could be Hosmer.
How about this: Dramatically increase the MLB minimum salary. If you make it $3MM, you not only effectively have a $78 million salary floor (actually slightly more since no team only has 26 players play for them during the course of a season and those on the ML IL would be making their money too), but you help spread the money around.
Harold Reynolds tossed out a stat on MLB Network this morning that of all the contract money currently in baseball, 51% of it is held by 33 players. This kind of pooling at the top may not be entirely avoidable–the guys at the top are always going to get paid–but hiking the minimum while maintaining some sort of luxury tax to keep top-end spending from ballooning would force the money to be distributed somewhat more equally and simultaneously force team owners to spend more.
It would do a lot to prevent all the roster churning and veterans being forced to sign minor league deals. The minimum salary being so low compared to the mean or even the median salary leads teams to relay of AAAA-level talent they can send back and forth between the majors and minors and only pay league minimum for when they are on the major league roster. That’s a problem for the players that doesn’t get talked about enough. Marginal major leaguers and experienced guys who should be back of the roster veterans who have no security and are treated poorly.
Do the math.
There’s 1200 40-man roster players making minimum respective salaries of better. Of those, some make more than 40-man minimum. The 25 active mlb roster members amount to 750 ball players.
If you paid the 750 guys a minimum of 3m, you’re talking over $2billion.
That’s too big a slice of pie when guys like scherzer are pulling $40m.
The top 125 mlb contracts LAST YEAR (I emphasize because new contracts are boosting it) set the QO based on an 18.4m value.
125×18.4m is $2,300,000,000. If we try to say players get an oversize 50% share of revenue, not profits, you’re saying the top 125 guys get over 1/3 of the pie, and 1075 guys get what’s left.
The math doesn’t work, not with existing FA contracts.
The entire point of the proposal was to rein in the top-end earners like Scherzer and give more to lesser guys, so I’m not sure how “Scherzer earns too much” is a counter. You could phase the increase in to buy a little time for contracts to expire if absolutely necessary, but frankly the teams who have $30-40MM/yr players probably don’t need the relief. There may also be even less drastic solutions than that in terms of making the impact smaller.
The fact that the top 125 players make $2.3 billion and paying 650 other guys would cost about the same with a six-fold increase in minimum salary proves my point about how ridiculous the disparity between top and bottom has gotten. We know the 2021 MLB average salary was $4.17 million, so total salary expenditures were around the $3.25 billion range. The top 1/8th making 70% of that is an issue to be addressed as far as I am concerned. Part of the point of a salary floor, for those who support it (and to which I offered this as a counterproposal), is also to get more money to be spent on player salaries so the total numbers would also be going up, which would provide some more headroom.
I’ll also add as an aside that it makes some of the other issues for the union less of a big deal. The reason the union is so focused on getting players to arbitration and then free agency is that’s where they get paid. If you shift more money down the totem pole, things like Super 2 and service time manipulation have a smaller impact (which may also make them less common because the reward for doing so is smaller). It may also increases competitive balance, as free agents being cheaper may make them more accessible, but it’s pretty difficult to know without seeing smaller market teams’ books which they will absolutely die before they show. Who knows, it may even make baseball a more attractive sport to athletes or have other knock-on effects.
In any event, I’m just tossing out numbers. Obviously you could pick lesser numbers, or combine more modest (but hopefully still significant) increases with an actual floor or any number of other things. My primary point was that you can achieve a lot of the same goals as a floor and also improve the lives of a lot of players at the bottom end with something like this.
There are about 3600 (120 teams x 30 players) players in minor league baseball that are not getting paid much at all. The CBA should cover them as well. The salary plan needs to start at the bottom and cover everyone.
To think that MLB could cover those 3600 players with a livable wage of $60,000 for $7M per team per year, and we’re seeing ONE PLAYER at the major league level making $40M+ per year, is unconscionable to me.
Scherzer is not. He is making $43 million and the smallest payroll was $50.8 million. The Mets revenue will be over $450 million in 2022. They can afford a $40 million man.
To me it seems the tax penalties are a major deterrent for some teams, including the usually big market teams.
Look at how Yankees now operate as opposed to before for clear example.
I agree with you on the salary floor would be good. Tax penalties aren’t bad, but they need to be tweaked.
The whole arbitration process needs work. It’s annoying to read about.
It’s sad for the players to not reach free agency until usually their mid-late 20s, and finally get paid.
A minimum payroll with a penalty will result in several small market teams throwing in the towel. Half the teams now cannot compete. They are priced out of the market for the best talent. The current system is great for guys like Scherzer who just got $43M per year. But what about the 18 year old kid in the minor leagues who is trying to get by on $10K?
Yeah, I just don’t know that that is true.
In 2018, every team received $118 million in revenue sharing dollars. (Obviously big-market teams paid more than that in, resulting in a net loss, but one they can by definition afford.) They also received another $91 million as their share of national revenues such as deals with ESPN and out-of-market MLB.TV games. Really small-market teams may have also received other benefits on a disproportionate basis, in addition to things like competitive balance round draft picks that aren’t money but help their bottom lines.
Obviously there are more expenses than just the major-league payroll for MLB teams, but it certainly seems like there’s room for a minimum payroll dramatically higher than many teams are carrying based on the revenue sharing numbers alone.
Or a scheme around the floor. Imagine Pirates trade two bags of used balls and a new athletic supporter to the Mets for Cano, $24 million for the next two years and a decent prospect. Mets get salary relief, Pirates get help to the payroll floor. Cano gets DFA’d and still gets paid.
No team is throwing in the towel. With the recent increases in TV contracts, every team will be bringing in over $250 million next season. All the teams can afford to spend more than $120 million easily and still be in the black. The minor leagues are not part of these negotiations nor are minor league players part of the union. What Scherzer makes does not effect that kid in Low A making $10k per season.
What is the Smallest Team”?
Let teams trade draft picks. Drafting well is a bit of a crap shoot, but allowing trades would be a boost to teams that develop talent well, regardless of their payroll constraints.
Looking at what’s been reported in the the two proposals, it does appear there is common ground. I do believe if they want a $240 luxury tax threshold, they should start by asking $260. Draft lottery, which I’ve heard is part of the MLBPA proposal, is a must. A phased elimination, or at least reduction, of revenue sharing should be part of it too. You have bottom teams with an entire team payroll equal to what the Mets are paying Scherzer. They absolutely can pay more. They’re electing not to while crying poverty. Don’t allow it, and if they can’t survive, relocate.
I disagree with your last point. My team, the Orioles, is a large talking point in all of this tanking conversation. The O’s have never cried poverty though. They have all but said it doesn’t make sense to spend $70M on payroll instead of $30M when the extra $40M will only net you 8-10 wins and won’t make them any more competitive than they are now.
@mstchef13, I understand your point, but my point really isn’t about a salary floor, but more to do with the lower-revenue teams who are collecting revenue sharing (and additional amateur picks) and consistently sitting at the bottom of the salary charts. The team in Cleveland (what’s their name?) is projected to have a payroll less than what the Mets are going to pay Scherzer for the season. That’s a problem, but it’s not a Mets problem. It’s a problem of how Cleveland is taking advantage of the current system, and in the process creating a very unenthused fan base. Incent teams to grow. The Orioles can survive. They have a great park, dedicated fans, multiple revenue streams. If they want to pull back for a few years to rebuild, go right ahead, but if they stay down there forever, that’s a problem, because as you noted. they’re more than big enough to compete.
That’s a little misleading with the Mets and Tribe comparison. First, Cleveland has yet to sign any free agents. They typically don’t involve themselves in early free agency, so the payroll is going to be higher. They even said close to 100mil. Now that remains to be seen of course. Second, why should teams like Cleveland be punished because they don’t want to overpay a pitcher 43 mil, which is what the Mets did with Scherzer. A major massive overpay. Is it going win them a World Series? No. It’s just mean they overpaid. To prove my point.. Mets payroll last year was 166 million.. Cleveland 23.5 Million and Cleveland was a better team, so you’re telling me the tribe needs to spend 100+ more million to lose 3 more games. Yeah..makes sense. No thank you
There’s a difference between spending because you think you are going to win and putting a minimally viable product on the field, particularly in the majority of parks which used public funds for construction and repairs.
Which is why I would rather instead of a lottery have the draft in round 1 flipped – the best non-playoff team gets pick #1, 2nd best pick #2, … down to the worst team getting the last pick before playoff teams. Go back to the old way for rounds 2 and beyond. Then there is a reason to compete even if you are sucking – so you can get better first round picks.. Might not make a massive difference, but it would reward teams that try and punish teams like the O’s who suck year in and year out.
Shared TV revenue is a must for the small market teams, When the big markets have 5 or 1o times the amount of TV revenue than the small markets teams have available to them an obvious imbalance exists. That imbalance is very real and does affect how much small market teams can spend. Baseball finances are very broken. In the NFL, small and large markets are equal. Teams that win are operated well. Teams that lose are poorly operated.
Yes, and those TV revenues are drying up as younger fans cut the cord. They are also not coming to the ballpark as in the past. Soon we will all be paying $20 per month for a streaming MLB broadcast. The teams will lose half their revenues in the process.
Why should people be expected to come to the stadium to watch a near 300 million dollar bought team from a financial juggernaut of a city play a small market team needing to rebuild because all of their last prospects got too expensive to carry any longer based off the amount of money the team can bring in?
Imbalance is the quickest way to kill interest in the sport overall, and imbalance is all that is accomplished when allowing big market clubs to spend wildly while everyone else needs to work within their modest to near no means
True, full revenue sharing and a hard cap would be the fastest way to both increase balance level and fan interest in the sport
Of course, the big market team owners would never vote to decrease how much money they can make in their big market, so it will never happen
But money doesn’t buy wins or guarantee success.
Baseball has parity, actually parity than sports with floors and hard caps.
So I disagree completely that you need to balance things. I’d you try too hard to balance things all you’ll get is a league of mediocre, which then will really impact the game
Teams rebuilding is fine and at times if done right can be exciting, nothing wrong with it. It’s the teams that stay in that state that torture their fans. Just put limits on draft picks over the years to bad teams. A floor will just create a lot of bad contracts and teams spending for the sake of it .
Also bigger markets Should be able to pay more, one of the things that I hate about the NHL now is good players end up playing out of the spotlight because why play in New York or Toronto and have your life under a microscope if you can make the same 8 million in tampa bay or Anaheim and have a much easier life. The big market teams need to be able to compensate more, it’s a tougher job there
No, money does not guarantee wins. But it does make it much easier to aquire them.
You can have extremely poorly run organizations floating around, to over, 500 solely because they are in a larger market. (Hello, Angels) the roughly 82 wins they get have to come from someone though, so all of a sudden a rebuilding team wins fewer games than they otherwise might have because of the high payroll the big city team ran
A mediocre league is the goal. It shouldn’t be easy to predict all the division winners at the beginning of the year based off what free agents they bought.
Baseball has gotten extremely boring in the last few years because of a lack of balance, and attendance is in free fall as a result.
@ darkstar61–
It happened once already, so it can happen again. Large-market owners were convinced the game needed revenue-sharing to thrive and they relented — thanks to Bud Selig’s salesmanship and consensus-building skills.
The trajectory of this game is for 6-10 perpetual superteams that win every WS.
I agree completely with this. You want to fix baseball you need to balance things financially
Put in a floor encourage teams to lock up young talent to make said floor
Baseball needs face of franchise players. It needs teams that are built over time instead of ones just paid for.
Even split of all tv/radio revenue minimum floor with say a two years out of every decade it can be ignored for each team so they can reload
Penalty for not meeting floor means loss of revenue dollars (which would be the average team minus what the smallest team brings in. So say they get 200 million a year and rays bring in 30 million. Don’t meet cap lose 170 million). This money goes into either a stadium fund or a pre-salary boom pension fund for players
Teams would have incentive to spend and would be on far more equal footing
Not all teams put their revenue into payroll, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t spent
A team that brings in no money cant do secondary stuff as much as the big market clubs either. So if you’re a team like the Rays and get the supplemental money, do you merely blow it on the ML roster as a shirt term prop, or invest it in the minors and development to ensure long term value?
Teams like the Rays are spending the money on their eventual onfield product, it’s just not spent in the simplest way to check on it, leading to fans not understanding where it goes
Are they really broken the way you’re implying? We haven’t had a single team win back-to-back titles in 21 years, we’ve had eight straight different teams win the World Series, while the small market teams like the Rays and A’s are competitive. The idea that the Royals, to name one team, should have access to the local TV revenue and concessions, as many have suggested, does nothing to advance the game, but it does advance the wallet of the small-team owner who is under no obligation to spend that money. If the fan in NY or LA is paying $15 for their hot dog, no part of that should go KC or Cleveland or Tampa. If the Yankees partner with Goldman Sachs and the NY Nets to build its RSN, that’s their revenue for taking the risk. What are the small markets bringing to the plate revenue wise? As is, the big-TV contracts are signed because of the big markets. That’s why you see the same teams on Sunday night baseball. Incent teams to be better and grow their market and thus the game. Disincent them to sit back and let the big markets do all the work to fund them leads to teams that don’t try on the business side. It needs to be fixed before it keeps trending in the wrong direction of the small teams not bothering to spend while asking the bigger teams to find a larger portion.
Owners, in small markets especially, do not make money on their teams. Thats just a lack of understanding turned into talking points by a vocal crowd. Owners are rich not because they have a lot of cash, and instead because they have a lot of stuff. Their homes, their teams, their businesses; all those things make up their “wealth” …but it doesn’t mean they have a single penny in their pocket. You could own a fancy car and nice house in California, thereby making you a millionaire, yet still live largely paycheck to paycheck
There are multiple teams that spend a ton, multiple in different phases of their rebuilds at different times, and luck all at play. Of course you won’t have the same teams winning one series every year. But the same teams generally end up in the playoffs together yearly because of a lack of imbalance.
Some teams have zero shot to win anything no matter what they do within their means. Some teams can be competitive no matter how poorly they run their organization. Some teams have to constantly make extremely tough and unpopular decisions just to keep their competitiveness alive, but cost themselves fans in the process. It’s all broken, at its core. And its because some teams print money in major cities to the point they can even splurge on their minor league signings (say, Yankees) while some must be perfect with every decision and penny spent because they have almost none of them (say, Rays)
@darkstar61 all mlb teams make money, yes they might of been bought with money made outside of bb but if mlb teams didn’t make money you wouldn’t have wealthy people lining around the block to buy a team. look at the fish they sold for 2b+ with no fans in the stands.
Rob, earlier in the season the MLBPA floated $250 million as a starting point for the CBT threshold. $240 is a compromise.
Just stop with the two division nonsense on both sides
Why? Does your favourite team currently play in one of the god awful divisions continually making the playoffs with less wins then some teams who miss the playoffs?
Play better?
I guess if I was a fan of the Blue Jay’s, maybe I’d see your point. But, I’d still expect the team to play better
You have a point. Three 100 win teams are eliminated while the Braves celebrate. The NL East is weak while the AL East had the Jays who never got in due to geography. Kind of like the Patriots who get in every year with playing 6 games against weaker division opponents.
The Jays only won two more games than the Braves won. Also, it’s not as if the Braves are in a division with teams that don’t spend. The Mets and Phillies have been throwing ridiculous money around.
Unless you redo the divisions yearly eventually that will happen no matter how you align.
I agree. If they want expanded playoffs just compromise and keep the existing alignment and add an additional wildcard team in each league.
But it doesn’t make sense to add more wild card positions while keeping the current schedule/divisions.
The Yankees will play the Red Sox, jays, rays and orioles half their games to compete for a wild card while the tigers will play 4 complete different teams that same number for the same spot.
The more the playoffs expand the more It just makes zero sense really.
Thanks for making my day! I haven’t heard “Tigers” and “playoffs” in the same sentence for years!
I know. That’s like saying Astros and integrity… things you don’t expect.
I’m with you. I was thinking they would expand to 32 and have 4 divisions in each league but if we are going to 2 divisions, why not just have 1 big division in each league and let the top teams in? seems not much different than 2 divisions.
As long as the players forever say no to a stupid salary cap I’m all good ! The artificial cap works just fine
The union should push for expansion to 32 teams, with four divisions in each league. Expand to a 14-team playoff and give the players a cut of the playoff revenue.
14 postseason teams is too many. They shouldn’t have more than 12.
My preference is 12 team playoff and a 32 team league. But I’m OK with 14 if there’s a 32 team league. I am absolutely against 14 teams in the current 30 team league.
32 teams way too many. Should be 24 to 28. League far too watered down alread. And, it would get rid of the teams that can’t compete (Oak, Pitt, Mia, SD, Cin).
They will never contract. They may relocate a couple of teams but they won’t decrease the number of franchises.
No expansion until Oakland and Tampa relocate. Then go to 32. But get these franchises on stable footing first.
They are pushing for expansion. It was in their proposal but not listed in this article. 2 new teams playing by 2027.
The owners want expanded playoffs without paying players at all. Players are not paid now for participating in the playoffs. They get a bonus only for being on the CS and WS teams.
How bout bases that shoot confetti when you touch the base
Good idea. Or make them whoopee cushions. This way the ump will know if a runner beats out a grounder to first easier. Did he hear the ball hit the glove or a fart first?
Tony Clark will cave. Guaranteed.
Tony’s not negotiating this deal. The MLBPA went and got a bona fide lawyer – Bruce Meyer – with a background in labor negotiations in sports leagues to be their main negotiator.
The owners are not happy that the MLBPA is not rolling over like they have in the past. That’s why they are using their weapon of a lockout to force the players to cave.
Clark is not the negotiator for the union.
4 divisions. teams 1-3 in each division make the playoffs with the winners getting a bye round. i hate expanding the number of teams but it’s going to happen anyway so i’d prefer they do it in a way that gets rid of the play-in game abomination
Yeah good idea get rid of the most exciting two games of the year. Two games which teams try and avoid thus spending more money trying to avoid it. Yeah mlbpa should definitely try and get rid of that…
The Wild Card Game has only happened nine times in each league. They don’t need it for ratings. It’s garbage. Postseason baseball should always be a series.
Two divisions with more incentive to win the division is interesting. A salary floor to make teams more competitive is a must.
I hate the idea of advertising on uniforms. I hate the idea of a 14 team playoffs. I hate the idea of decreased penalties for going over the luxury tax.
Sometimes the owners are right, sometimes the players are.
A salary floor doesn’t make more teams not tank. How do I know? I follow other sports with a floor. There’s tanking in every sport so if the main argument is it’s a anti tanking measure is a non starter. A floor just makes Jason Hayward somehow valuable. Terrible system.
Here’s how I can tell Scott Boras is full of crap every time he speaks. The rays and A’s stay competitive. You can’t believe a word Boras says if the Rays stay competitive. If the rays can win a 100 games without paying a player over a million dollar they should be allowed to do so. If spending equals winning spend more while the rays continue to beat you idiots.
Other sports are different. They do it for draft picks where draft picks are more projectable.
Baseball they do it to make money. Why even try when there is no chance?
I agree with realignment. Take Texas out of the AL West and send Houston back to the NL where they belong. Forget the 2 divisions though. Add 2 new teams—one per league to balance the divisions. add a 4th division in each league and there’s your 4 division winners and 2 wild cards per league to get to 12.
Milwaukee back to the AL of course
8 teams in 1 division ? Why? The NL Central had 6 teams for a long time. Forgot then the Brewers became an NL team. The Royals are smack dab in the middle of the country. They should’ve went to the AL West.
The alignment could be worse. For some reason in the hockey the Blackhawks are in the western conference. I’m not a hockey fan in any way but that makes no sense
Two new teams would be cool though. Bring back the Expos(even though the Marlins should have relocated there before their new stadium was built.
No Expos. Pick one in the East and one in the West.
East options…
Charlotte Knights
Nashville Bandits (“Stars” is not creative)
Buffalo Bisons
New Orleans Gators
West options…
Portland Thunderbirds
Las Vegas Vipers
San Antonio Scorpions
Vancouver Sharks
I think the two new teams will be Portland and Vancouver. They need to solve the travel issue with the Mariners having no local competition,
I doubt they put two teams in the same region. The Pacific Northwest definitely needs one and the Southeast could use another team as well.
Las Vegas Vipers. Would that be the A’s new name if they relocate?
Yes. Oakland and Tampa Bay should both change their team names if they relocate.
You can’t introduce a floor without a cap.
You can introduce the equivalent of an escalating soft floor that matches the soft cap.
I think this makes sense.
There has to be much more to all of this, because there doesn’t seem to be that big of a gap on the things listed. 12-14 team playoffs? Luxury tax seems like something they could agree upon. Division realignment? In the grand scheme doesn’t really matter that much. The luxury tax penalties might be the big sticking point, because no penalty is basically no salary cap.
Man…these guys need to get this done. Why they haven’t been locked in a room for months is beyond me. After a pandemic shorten season in 2020 we need baseball, not a work stoppage.
Advertising patches would be so ugly on the uniforms
Make those things look like a NASCAR if it gives us baseball in 2022.
Woke my dog up from laughing. “I don’t care WHAT they look like, as long as they’re on the field and playing ball!”
No, on the 4 division idea, it will only make the league a coastal plus Texas Baseball event.
why texas?
Because they are usually competitive. Didn’t mean to did Chicago.
With four divisions per league, I would move Colorado to the AL. Then you get this division…
Astros
Rangers
Rockies
Royals
Shouldn’t you add the pirates to that division?
32/8 = 4. Let’s pick Charlotte and Portland for example. Here’s your alignment…
Baltimore, Boston, New York (Yankees), Toronto
Chicago (White Sox), Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota
Colorado, Houston, Kansas City, Texas
Los Angeles (Angels), Oakland, Portland (expansion), Seattle
New York (Mets), Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington
Chicago (Cubs), Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis
Atlanta, Charlotte (expansion), Miami, Tampa Bay
Arizona, Los Angeles (Dodgers), San Diego, San Francisco
Add New Orleans and Vancouver. Miami moves to Vancouver. New Orleans (expansion) plays in Atlanta’s division.
Vancouver will play in the northeast south west division, meaning nobody.
A salary floor should be near the top of the list for the players. It’s criminal how many teams spend so little and pocket the revenue sharing. The rebuilding excuse wears thin.
You can’t introduce a floor to the smaller market teams while the Mets and Dodgers continue to spend close to 300MM per year. If you have a floor you need a cap to maintain the competitive balance. As RobM pointed out above, it doesn’t have to be a hard floor/cap.
The CBT is operated like a cap by most of the teams so a floor should be fine. Baseball player dev doesn’t work like football and basketball anyway so a hard cap would not be the one quick fix that people seem to think.
look forward to the Viacom Yankees facing off against their arch-rivals the Google Sox
Lets chill out here gang. This is a self imposed deadline. it really doesn’t matter much if the deal gets done today or a month from now most likely.
Oh my God. We agree on something.
indeed a revelation
Any work stoppage is pathetic. A complete disgrace. Billionaires arguing with millionaires – a tone deaf display in all regards with the fans as common pawns.
Yep, and it’s especially true in light of the events of the past two years, which have many fans just struggling to scrape by these days.
I always find it fascinating that fans side with either faction in this silly dispute every five or so years. Both are a disgrace who care nothing for the long-term health of the sport they’re co-stewards of.
Act like adults and get a deal done. It shouldn’t be a national embarrassment for professional baseball every time a CBA expires.
… well said, DY.
What is the point of proposing the two division structure? The current setup is elegant (at least as long as there are 30 teams), while the imbalance of this proposal isn’t. And it seems like reducing the number of divisions would be likely to increase travel for the players. I don’t get it.
If the playoffs are going to be 12 teams, I like the idea of the two division winners getting huge playoff benefits. They deserve it.
Two division winners get first round bye while four wild cards play a best-of-three wild card round
Personally I hate the best-of-three series. Too many good teams can just get unlucky. It erases the significance of the entire season. I’d much prefer if the entire playoffs were best of 5 or 7.
I don’t like the best-of-three either but it’s still 100 times better than a one-game playoff.
Agreed. There are different ways to work it. The NBA’s method for play-in is novel and could be used in some way. College World Series uses double elimination. Something like that could be used with wildcards to get to the divisional round.
@48-team MLB absolutely
Not a fan of division winners sitting around for 3-4 days waiting for the first round to finish.
They already don’t start the Division Series until either Thursday or Friday anyway. A best-of-three series all in one location with no off-days wouldn’t change the start of the Division Series that much.
Depends on how many games are played outside of the divisions.
The current system usually allows one or two fraud teams in (usually from the Central divisions) that are handily disposed of, while better teams in better divisions have to stay home.
eh, the interleague division rivalries have gotten stale.
And it takes away from the team playing another team in the division.
The sox don’t play the brewers or cardinals much since they are tied into playing the cubs. They should rotate that every other year.
Its also state when one team decides not to spend money on payroll and their team is bad, so theres no real competition.
I much prefer the owner proposals than the players. However, I would prefer 12 playoff teams, not 14.
Who will break the “When the Rule 5 Draft will be?” story?
What have you learned from your mistakes?
In this division realignment, here’s where every Central Division team could go…
NL East: Pirates, Reds
NL West: Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers
AL East: Tigers, SPIDERS (that’s what I’m calling them)
AL West: White Sox, Royals, Twins
I’m digging the 12 team playoff and division realignment
Team mascots can also DH…
Imagine Classic MLB uniforms with “Chico’s Bail Bonds” on the back. Walter Matthau was ahead of his time.
LOL. I was thinking of Shamrock Meats in Rocky.
Forget that. How about simply selling naming rights to the teams? The Boston Burger Kings, the Milwaukee Budweisers, the Texas Instruments, the Seattle Starbucks. The possibilities are endless, and oh-so lucrative!
It would literally turn into BASEketball lol.
With the exception of the San Francisco Ferries
I thought the same thing.
Why don’t we go crazy and let teams trade draft picks?
I also quite wonder what the exact competition concerns there are. we all have our own ideas, but is it seen by those in charge as an issue of teams spending more because they can or teams spending less? I would scarcely believe there would be a lowering of the luxury tax to do this, but floor, greater penalties, revenue sharing are all on the table for that argument.
The Union pushing to become even bigger corporate shills…I’ll just stay home and pay to watch…
over 33% drop in attendance in 2021…sure, some obviously due to COVID…where’s the beef ($) coming from? The corporate patches? Pfffft
Some? Many of the teams were allowing only limited crowds until May or June.
and there’s the factor of people having less money to spend on games or just willingly avoiding games due to individual covid concerns.
They should set two tiers for the luxury tax. Tier 1 is $230 million, tier 2 is $250 million. Tier 1 charges 35% on the overage, tier 2 75%. Then the additional penalties is a drop of 4 slots for your first round pick in the following draft for being in tier 1, and tier 2 is a total of 8 slots being dropped.
If you have loose penalties for the luxury tax, it doesn’t operate as a de facto cap.
There’s a lot on both sides that needs to change but I really hope one of the items they fix is how players control initial service time.
It’s so awful for the game that players who are ready to contribute have to wait in the minors so teams get an extra year of control. Fix that immediately, it’s one of the things I hate the most
The players are really asking for a lot less than I think they should be, which makes ownership’s bad faith negotiating and refusal to really entertain any alternatives but “Heads I win, Tails you lose” even more galling. The players are not exactly asking to blow up the system here, even after a decade of owner-dominated CBAs.
A salary floor would likely not result in bad teams signing better players. Those teams would sign the same players but instead of a Maikel Franco getting $1 million contract, he would get a $5 million contract. Teams rebuild and then spend more money. The Astros, Nationals, Cubs, and now the Rangers are just some examples of teams doing that in recent years so it all evens out in the end. The Orioles for example, their payroll is going to increase over the next few seasons, and while their payroll is increasing another team is going to be reducing payroll and rebuilding. It all evens out in the end.
Bottom line MLB is being ruined leave it alone
It seems to me, by requesting the tax threshold be lowered, MLB and the owners are/were not acting in good faith. Even if only a negotiation tactic. Perhaps equally absurd is the players’ proposal for advertising patches on uniforms. What fan needs or wants more corporate advertising forced upon them.
If they expand the playoffs they have to shorten the season. There will be 3 or 4 playoff games a day. Who will have time to watch any
And no to uniform patches. This is not NASCAR
Far enough (along) on negotiations or far apart. confusing.
It was the owners who proposed the advertising patches on the uniforms. not the mlbpa, which is partially why there was little progress towards the agreement last year.
All this stuff they are doing is too benefit the owners and players nothing really for the fans. Ticket prices especially for play offs are expensive now they are thinking get money out of more fan bases so owners and players earn more.
I don’t want to watch or compete track of spring training than 162 games and than have more rounds of play offs. Make the 162 count for something not a “shotgun start post season”. Where teams that shouldn’t be in are in.
I think a lock out etc going draw the wrong attention to teams that won’t sit well with fans.
Bob333, I love advanced stats, but the game has been deeply hurt by them.
The opener, limited innings from starters, nine men bullpens, the shift, less stealing, running, bunting and contact, The three true outcomes.
It was a much better game in the 70s.
Bureaucrats are not hurting the game, speadsheets are.
As someone who “grew up” with advanced stats (I became a fan of baseball in 2012 in my teens), I strongly but respectfully disagree with you sans the shift. In fact, I’d wager that advanced stats are only “ruining” the game for people that grew up with baseball before said stats and strategy’s became a part of today’s baseball.
In any case, I agree to disagree.
1000% chance the season doesn’t start on time.
The flaw in that logic is you don’t know how much more you’ll win by adding the extra payroll. If it’s spent well, it can lead to competitiveness. But to sit there and throw your hands in the air and say, oh well we just can’t compete, so let’s field a minor league team is a problem. No one is saying every team needs to spend 150 million, but certainly a team in a market like Baltimore can spend much more, and be effective with that spending. If you can’t be effective, time to find different people to allocate the resources. If teams like the Rays can be competitive with smaller payrolls, especially with their lack of fanbase, the reason for any other team to not at least try to replicate it is excuses at best.
Sorry, don’t know why, but that comment was meant to be in reply to an earlier one. Don’t know how or why it posted here.
So 2 divisions in each league? We got out of that. Are they going to send Atlanta and Cincinnati back to west again? Makes no sense.
I’m not a huge fan of that alignment but I would simply put the Reds and Pirates in the East and the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers in the West if it came down to it.
I really just don’t want to see advertisements on jerseys. No matter how big or small the patch is, it still bothers me. Don’t we have enough advertising covering every last inch of every ballpark, and commercials being tossed into games during mound visits?
For every MLB team, there is no brand stronger than your own.
The only exception is rhea Nike Swoosh or majestic otherwise yes that’s just dumb it’s LAF too if they did that
The more playoff teams the better. No need to shorten season, just start season one week earlier with games in warm weather cities or domes of which there are plenty. I don’t know why the players would want to change current division set up, they are fine as is. Love the idea of advertising on uniforms. Why not, there is already advertising it everywhere and there have been no issues in NHL. Any of way to generate more revenue for players is great.
I’d make the argument that draft-pick penalties create unintended consequences that are counterproductive. The more you cut off the higher revenue teams from cheap young talent, the more they need to go out into the free agent marketplace to fill a hole that a non-competitive or deliberately tanking team would live with (and fill with something cheap). So, sure, put in monetary penalties for overspending, and even give supplemental picks for teams losing marquee FA, but stop the loss of draft picks. As for a “floor” make it a soft one….either spend a certain amount of money, or lose revenue-sharing in an amount equal to the differential. If the point of revenue sharing is, in part, to make things more competitive, then make those teams who a big net receivers spend some of it on the field, or lose it.
Here’s a few things I’d do.
Luxury Tax increases by 5% automatically increases based on certain revenue targets
Service time reduced to 5 years, automatically starts when a player either turns 22 or has been in the organization for 5 years.
Free agents can get a max of 7 years, AAV can only be within 5% of record
Players can’t be attached to draft picks for leaving however the team that they are leaving are able to offer an 8th year
First 5 years of contracts are guaranteed, last 2 years can be bought out for 50%.
Draft picks can be traded
Teams can’t pick in the top 10 for more than 2 years in a row or 3 times in 5 years.
Move to a balanced schedule between the leagues.
If you expand the playoffs and the regular season doesn’t mean anything anymore, shorten it to like 50 games and call it a day. Absolutely asinine to play 162 games if they barely mean anything at the end of the season.
Without a doubt the best 25 minutes of reading I’ve ever had on MLBTR.
I don’t care who has the money, or who should get the money, or how they divvy up the percentages. I just know it costs me a few hundred bucks to take my wife and two kids to a game and sit in seats that aren’t very good. They are pricing the average supportive fan out of the game because both sides are insanely greedy. The owners nor the players understand the privilege they have to be in their position. Just get the games back on the field.
Welp… the. talks are officially over. #LockedOutTill2022
This is gonna be a long winter.
My favourite is the MLBPA’s idea to have players wear advertising patches. How about a MLBPA clown patch?
Seven entire minutes…..well, that’s comforting. We all know the next steps–lockout, posturing, more posturing, even more posturing, time for a needed holiday break, back to the bargaining table for some exciting posturing, an announcement that informal discussions are being held….goody
Make every single player in baseball a free agent annually. Players are free to make whatever they can get. The owners can sign those that are producing and pass on those that aren’t.
Player salaries would come down a lot. There would be more competition for those MLB salaries.
Owners might go for that, but players wouldn’t (except for Trevor Bauer). Players want the security of multiyear contracts and the continuity of playing for a team in a town they are accustomed to.
Just please move the Jays out of the AL east.
I dream someday of the AL North… TO, Detroit, Cleveland, Montreal Ray-pos.
I can offer you an all Canadian division…
Toronto Blue Jays
Ottawa Monarchs
Quebec City Owls
Halifax Demon Ducks
Just charge a flat tax on a team’s overage above $250mil & establish a $100mil salary floor. Baseball should follow something like hockey with a Entry Level period & 3 RFA years. If a player is over 28yo then it’s a shorter RFA period.
If Max is worried about the competition, bring in the salary cap floor.
I guess most of the well known spending teams like the dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox and angels knew this would happen which is why they haven’t spent much or in some cases nothing at all this off season. It’s a damn shame this even happened smh
Negotiations ended after 7 minutes? What was it at the McDonald’s drive thru?
Total BS.
7 minute negotiation today, they tried their best
6 minutes & 30 seconds of it were used trying to get everyone on Zoom.
I often wonder if MLB ever thought of asking what the fans want in regards to playoff format etc.
I would make the first week of the season “Opening Week”. Every game on Opening Day starts at the same time. On the same day. Either in a Dome ballpark or on the West Coast where it’s warmer.
The lockout means nothing for 60 days plenty of time to sign players before pitchers and catchers report. Even some time for the Mets to hire a field manager!
Peace out baseball.
The article says the MLBPA and the Owners oppose the Salary Floor. So much for that idea.
Tony Clark is a pawn in this.
I hope the new CBA covers the minor leaguers. Those guys deserve a fair salary. Some of them are living on $500 per week.
If they put advertising on the uniforms I’m done.
They talked about it.
I feel like advertising on uniforms is inevitable unfortunately.
They could make it like a keeper rotisserie league. Teams get to keep 15 major leaguer and ten prospects protected at end of every year. The rest are selected in January on a Reese snake draft. Salaries based on prior year stats x fifty percent and prior five years stats and service fifty percent.
Fu_k Manfred and Clark.
Why play 162 games if everyones in the playoffs? I’d like to see 1 division like it was when baseball was great. The 2 best teams would play in the World Series as it should be. And for Gods sake get rid of Manfred. Baseball shouldn’t be about the owners or the players, it’s about the fans and we always seem to have to pay the price.
Everyone?
MLB is pathetic . No sense of the bigger picture . Hope they strike and kill the sport
Manfred is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the strike of 94. But, re-alignment is the dumbest of dumb ideas. I’m surprised the players association is that dumb as well. Leave the alignment alone ffs. Salary cap doesn’t need raised, that only benefits the teams with huge money. Teams like the Reds, Pirates, Royals, Rays, etc, will never get close to that anyway. Institute a stiff penalty for tanking. Take away draft picks or something. Or the team that finishes last, picks in the last spot or something. Or make the draft order based on record and according to money spent. Tanking is ruining the game. Period. Want players to make more money? Great, I’m all for it, but that takes teams trying to compete. Teams like the Astro’s and Cub’s who tanked for 10 years to reap draft picks are a joke. If your team can’t draft and develop out of the late to middle rounds, maybe you need better scouts and development teams. A salary floor is almost a must. And if owners can’t spend to that amount, sell your team. No player should be held onto by a team until they are 30 years old either. Not without being paid. Increase base salary and give bigger raises per year to lower level players. This will stop teams from hording players as well. Or easier yet, make it so that a player gets 4 minor league years, if not called up or added to the 40 man, they are free agents. If they are added to the 40 man roster, that starts 3 arbitration years. Then they are Free agents. That gives a team 7 years of control from the date of draft. Players drafted at 18 will be free agents either way by 25 years old the first time. Then they get paid, or walk. And for God’s sake, put a cap on how many times you can shuttle a minor leaguer back and forth in a season. This crap of using one guy and sending him up and down 15 times a year is almost criminal. There are a billion things they could do. But I’ll be surprised if they don’t ruin baseball altogether trying to pander to the newer generation, that doesn’t truly respect the sport anyway. I wish the new CBA would include Rob Braindead’s walking papers as well.
The only point I take issue with is the 4 years in the minors. The cost to develop Players has to be pretty huge. Many players are nowhere near ready after 4 years. I would adjust this by saying that a Base Raise be granted to these players, say 25% of the MLB minimum.
Implement a floor and ceiling for cap – 100 mill floor and 200 mill ceiling. Give teams 3-5 years to be in compliance.
Rework the competitive balance system. There should be two rounds
After round 1 it should be picks awarded to teams based on production from free agents signed vs free agents lost. Kind of like what the NFL does. Get rid of the lose draft pick if you sign a QO guy.
After round 2 it should be picks based on revenue level
7 minutes? are children running this?
Yes.
Just enough time for both sides to hurl a few insults at the other. We’re in for a loooooong lockout.
I will add these proposals…
1. All fielders will wear jet packs.
2. All base runners will get to use either a skateboard or pogo stick depending on which card they draw from the first base umpire. This will allow all base runners to potentially go airborne.
3. Any expansion team will play in a floating stadium at sea. Only after winning a World Series will they be allowed to play in a normal stadium.
4. The World Series will be played on the moon. John Smoltz and Joe Buck will broadcast from the Space Station.
These are the proposals we really should be talking about…not minor league pay or salary floor. Sir, you made my year with those suggestions. Kudos to you..
Lololol…jet packs and pogo sticks…..what a joke this is getting to be
7 minutes!!?? A bad sign…..
7 minutes. They are working hard for our money.
I mentioned last night that ads on uniforms (and other things) have to be coming. Voila! Bad uniform looks already started with the “city pride” nonsense they unveiled this year. They look like they are wearing pajamas. All of them are hideous.
Sure, let’s slap on some ads to unfiforms. Especially traditional uniforms like the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees will look great with those.
They are killing the golden goose.
Pretty soon players will have to say “Sponsored by Carl’s Jr” every time they talk.
Good one!
Pretty soon their uniforms will look like NASCAR.
Maybe they’ll troll everyone and interview like Ricky Bobby. Not sure what to do with their hands.
7 minutes, what a joke. They dont care one bit about the fans which is why i wont go to games, buy jersies, etc.
I propose cutting the schedule by 40 games, lowering ticket prices by half (along with parking and concessions) put games back on free tv (especially playoff games), and play playoff and World Series games only on Friday, Saturday,and Sunday when people can actually watch.
How old school! Oh, but we have to adapt with the changing times! Otherwise we are labeled old fogies (or worse) for being against changing some traditions.
Well, some changes are not wise or appealing. What is wrong with saying that? I am really annoyed by some of these proposals. The playoff ideas and the ads on unfiforms are crappy.
I hope the players hold out until Manfred resigns
That approach by spoiled brat millionaires will really anger people: Especially those who are struggling to make ends meet. Do not believe me? Look at the price of basics like food and gas.
7 minutes
LMAO!!!
Owners : “ I hate you! … you’re greedy”
Players : “ I hate you! … you’re greedy”
Meeting over.
Fans SMH
This is correct. There is no innocent side in this.
I am sick of the Norma Rae BS coming from the players. When I see Heaney making $8.5m and Paxton who is always hurt getting $10m you see the players are not exactly getting screwed over, They probably want things like they are in the NBA where the players are so dominant, Lebron James can get fans ejected for booing.
I’m still disappointed the union is against a minimum salary cap. Max caps are needed to keep costs in check, but a minimum would give a floor owners must spend. There are clearly owners who want to nickle and dime to better line their own pockets than put a competitive team on the field.
The players have more important issues than the Salary Floor. Rise the CBT threshold, becoming free agents sooner.
How do Max Caps keep costs in Check? The only way a Teams Player Costs go up is if the Owner “chooses” to Pay more. The Cap only restrains an Owner from spending how they might want to spend. it’s an artificial restraint created to prevent the Richest Owners from spending more. It’s an impediment to Free Trade. Not a Good thing in my Mind
Guess you’re not a fan of other sports like football. Unmitigated capitalism is not a panacea, especially in sports. I wish there was a cap on costs to fans (tickets, concessions, apparel) but keeping an even salary forces talent to supersede the almighty dollar.
I don’t watch those sports anymore.
You shouldn’t be able to Buy a team if you can’t compete financially. These are Billionaires they are not Buying in the Blind. They know exactly what they are getting, so crying poor after Buying is BS. If the City can’t support a team, move it.
The sacred Cow is trying to stay in these small Markets, many that have been in Baseball for Decades, like KC. Times have changed and the types of areas needed to support Baseball has changed as well.
There’s No Crying in Baseball
My initial response was snarky and nasty, but in retrospect, I feel sad for you. Based on your pic and comments, you’re clearly a Yankees fan who celebrated George Steinbrenner and winning in the 90s/2000s. It reminds me of someone who called into the WFAN earlier where they expected the Yankees to win every year like it was a birthright.
In actuality, you’re missing what makes sports wonderful. Good sportsmanship is important, but at the pro level it’s a test of talent, endurance and practice. Underdog stories are great because they persevered and achieved their dream. Olympic athletes don’t compete because someone gave them a check for millions.
Throwing s**t tons of money around not only cheapens the game, but it misses the very point of it.
I can see the February 2022 headlines now, “MLB and MLBPA haven’t talked since December”.
I’d much rather not have 14 playoff teams. I’d be ok with 12 if perhaps the league decided to expand to 32 teams. Then you could divide the divisions up into 4 separate divisions per league. Ex. AL West, South, North, East, and NL West, South, North, East. Or hell even do away with AL, and NL and realign totally. Make the AL the Western or Northern league and the NL the Eastern or southern league. Have “regions” per each league like Pacific, Atlantic, Coastal, Plains, ect… And bargain for the 2 expansion teams to take effect after 2023 or 2024. And bring in universal DH and set luxury tax at 230m and increase it by 5% each year, as well as a hard low salary cap at 125m and increase it by the same dollar amount the lux tax rises each year. (NOT 5% Because 5% of 125m is much less than 5% of 230m)
New alignment might look something like.
NL West
Padres
Giants
Dodgers
Expansion… Vegas?
NL Midwest
D’backs
Rockies
Cardinals
Cubs
NL Central
Brewers
Braves
Reds
Pirates
NL east
Mets
Nats
Phillies
Marlins
Al West
Angels
A’s
Mariners
Expansion… Mexico?
Al Midwest
Royals
Astros
Rangers
Twins
Al Central
Tigers
White Sox
Cleveland
Bluejays
Al East
Redsox
Yanks
Rays
Orioles.
Or something dramatically different such as…
Western League
(1st division)
Dodgers
Mariners
Padres
Angels
Western league
(2nd divison)
Giants
A’s
Rockies
Expansion…. Vegas?
Western league
(3rd division)
Brewers
Cardinals
Twins
Royals
Western league
(4th division)
Dbacks
Mexico?
Astro’s
Rangers
Eastern league
(1st division)
Reds
Cleveland
White Sox
Cubs
Eastern league
(2nd division)
Brewers
Marlins
Braves
Rays
Eastern league
(3rd division)
Phillies
Jay’s
Pirate’s
Redsox
Eastern league
(4th division)
Yankees
Mets
Nats
Orioles
Each league sends top seed from each division to playoffs for 8 teams. Each league sends additional 4 best teams who didn’t clinch their divisions as wildcards
Here is an example playoff bracket.
Wildcard series… Best of 3
(Eastern league)
Yankees v Phillies
Braves v reds
Mets v Jay’s (both wildcard teams)
Whitesox v pirates (both wilcard teams)
(Western league)
Dodgers v dbacks
Brewers v Giants
Mexico v Rockies (both wildcard teams)
Angels v a’s (both wildcard teams)
Winners advance to division series.
Then the top seeds from each winner of the previous series plays each other in a best of 5
(Eastern league)
Yankees v braves
Mets v whitesox
(Western league)
Rockies v angels
Dodgers v Brewers
Then the championship series will be best of 7
(Eastern league)
Braves v whitesox
(Western league)
Dodgers v angels
Then world series best of 7
Braves v Angels
Well apparently my math sucks… And I meant to say I’d much rather have 14 teams and would be ok with 12… What I should’ve said was I’d much rather have 16 teams and would be ok with 14.
With 32 teams, I prefer going back to two divisions in each league:
NL East
1 Atlanta Ball Club
2 Cardinals
3 Cubs
4 Marlins
5 Mets
6 Nationals
7 Phillies
8 Pirates
NL West
1 Brewers
2 Diamondbacks
3 Dodgers
4 Giants
5 Padres
6 Reds
7 Rockies
8 Expansion
AL East
1 Blue Jays
2 Minnesota
3 Orioles
4 Rays
5 Red Sox
6 Tigers
7 White Sox
8 Yankees
AL West
1 Angels
2 Astros
3 Athletics
4 Guardians
5 Kansas City Royals
6 Mariners
7 Rangers
8 Expansion
The two division winners get first round byes. The second place team in each division gets home field for a three game series against two additional wild cards. So six playoff teams in each league. Then a 5 game division series and 7 game championship series.
Last year’s results applied here:
Byes for Tampa Bay, Houston, San Francisco, St. Louis.
White Sox and Mariners host Yankees and Red Sox.
Dodgers and Braves host Brewers and Reds.
Yankees and Red Sox tied for 3rd behind Rays and White Sox
Cardinals edged Braves in East
Brewers were in 3rd behind Giants and Dodgers
However, I do not see two additional expansion teams for several more years.
I’ve already posted my 32-team league alignment in a couple places. Scroll through the comments to see it.
No
D’Backs in the Midwest? Really? They’re nowhere near the Midwest. That makes zero sense
I think what we are seeing right now is that Teams can afford Big Contracts. .We’re watching the Tigers, Rangers, Mariner’s, and Marlins signing FA’s. These are known Tanking team’s, yet they are spending.
They will have Payroll problems in a few years just like the Yankees, Dodgers, and BoSox will and are having currently.
The LT should be raised to 250 MM based on the Contracts now being paid and a Base Salary Floor of 150 MM should be required. If an Owner cannot afford that they should either Sell the Team or not be sold a Franchise.
It amazes me that Owners will buy a Team in a Small Market then complain that it’s a Small Market. Do they buy it hoping to qualify for the League Welfare Check? Doesn’t make sense to me.
The fact is, Big Market Teams drive the Game and doing things that hinder them does not help the Game, it only hurts it. Ratings come Play-Off time drops off when Big Market teams don’t qualify to keep playing. Everybody Roots for the Underdog but nobody wants to watch them.
Most owners buy the team just because they want to be in a very exclusive club. Making money is an after thought. These guys for the most part have more money than they could spend in 100 life times.
Players proposal included adding an expansion team to each league to start play within 5 years. They also included a salary floor that was higher than the $100 million the owners had proposed, but not sure how much higher.
This is going to be interesting. The two sides are world’s apart on the core issues.
I have a very controversial idea but….. Do away with the draft entirely… Instead of drafting in June, start a summer league for a “showcase” and allow scouts to scout prospects, and at the conclusion of the world series, all players from the summer league become free agents and are attached with a minimum signing bonus of 100k and can only sign for a maximum of 7 years. Most will become free agents again by age 25 if signed for the max 7 years. This should do away with tanking to achieve top draft picks. Let the owners fight it out and let the prospects go to the highest bidder.
More playoff teams to trick more fan bases into thinking they actually have a chance. Eventually all the large market teams are going to get smart owners and or management. A floor and cap doesn’t matter unless all teams are capable of spending up to that cap. If all small market teams spent 100 million it wouldn’t make them much better. It takes 20 30 40 million to get difference makers and you need more than 1. Floor is fine as long as you have a cap under 200 million. Half the teams in the league can only spend a max of 150. Moving them to another smaller market won’t fix this and will lose fans in previous city. Any cap over 200 would require more profit sharing. Takes a lot of smart people and luck for 100 million to contend with 200 or 300.
Adding.more.playoffmteamsmis.totally dumb.
Half.the mlb automatically goes to the playoffs?
No thanks. Not interested.
Here’s an incentive to not tank. Have a Spring Training round robin tournament in each division. The team that finishes last will not get to play that season. That means you only have 24 teams playing every regular season. Teams will have to at least shoot for fourth place in the round robin tournament in March or not have a season.
These changes are stupid. Why realign?
14 teams in the playoffs? Idiotic.
Raising the ceiling creates more disparity.
A floor is not legal, is it? Bad idea any ways.
They are trying to ruin baseball. Sad. Losing interest.
Listen up fans!
It was just as fun to watch the skinnies vs the fats in the day…..
Send in the scabs! They will be just as much fun, if not more fun to watch!
$23M.and strikes out 187 times…..wow.
..not good for baseball
I would like to see revenue sharing equity. Meaning radio and television revenue sharing. Also have a ceiling on payroll and a minimum. That way everyone is playing on a even playing field. As far as realignment goes make it geographic the 2 New Yorks teams together and both Chi ago together. This would save travel expenses and add local rivalries which would save owners money and thats what they want. Without a salary cap and revenue sharing your always have the haves and the have nots.
Curious, if the lockout caused all current players to be banned, would you watch an entirely new MLB with all new faces? Seriously, I am not asking a smart mouth question.
So now we have the long planned lockout, I wonder when serious talks begin and real negotiation begin. Billionaires fighting millionaires and they will again try to kill the sport. I would not be surprised if 2022 makes 2020 season look long.
Regardless of what your opinion is on this, the fact is that both sides have & will have wonderful lives when it’s all said & done. So, this shouldn’t last into ST, imho. Both sides should know that they’ll have to compromise in some way, shape or form.