The current collective bargaining agreement expires in less than two weeks, with the possibility of an offseason freeze looming. If a new deal isn’t agreed upon when the current one wraps up at 11:59 pm EST on December 1, the general expectation within the industry is that owners will lock the players out — resulting in a ban on transactions until another agreement is reached.
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred addressed the state of the labor situation when speaking with reporters (including Evan Drellich of the Athletic and Jeff Passan of ESPN) this afternoon. The commissioner stopped short of calling a lockout an inevitability, but he certainly seemed to suggest that course of action was on the table. Manfred drew a distinction between the impact a winter transactions freeze would have on the sport versus that of a work stoppage that lingers into next season.
“I can’t believe there’s a single fan in the world who doesn’t understand that an offseason lockout that moves the process forward is different than a labor dispute that costs games,” he said. As to whether the sides still had hope of hammering out a new CBA before December 1, Manfred said the league was “committed to continuing to offer proposals and suggestions in an effort to get to an agreement before” that date, but acknowledged that “time is becoming an issue.”
Technically, the expiration of the CBA wouldn’t necessitate a lockout. As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes explored in August, the sides continued to conduct offseason business during the last winters (1993-94 and 94-95) that proceeded without a CBA in place. The players went on strike when no agreement was reached during the 1994 season, and that year’s World Series was eventually cancelled.
Manfred implied the league wouldn’t want to run the risk of negotiating without an agreement this time around, pointing to the ’94 strike and trends in other professional sports leagues as justification. “I don’t think ’94 worked out too great for anybody,” Manfred said. “I think when you look at other sports, the pattern has become to control the timing of the labor dispute and try to minimize the prospect of actual disruption of the season. That’s what it’s about: It’s avoiding doing damage to the season.”
The commissioner’s comments come amidst a background of a very slow back-and-forth between the league and Players Association. The MLBPA has made two core economics proposals over the past six months; the league has made just one, although it made an alteration to its August offer last week. It doesn’t seem there’s been much progress on economics issues, with the MLBPA pursuing such goals as raised luxury tax thresholds and earlier arbitration eligibility. The league, meanwhile, has pushed for lowered luxury tax markers and an age-based system for free agency eligibility that could delay the path to the open market for the game’s brightest stars, among other things.
While much of Manfred’s focus was unsurprisingly on the core economic structure of the game, he also touched on a few other topics. The commissioner expressed optimism about the league’s ongoing testing of pre-tacked baseballs, suggesting they hoped to test the prototype in Spring Training 2022. Manfred didn’t rule out the possibility of using a pre-tacked ball in regular season games at some point next season. He also voiced support for the possibility of a pitch clock being implemented in upcoming CBA talks, saying that “owners remain very interested in” introducing a clock at the major league level after testing it in minor league games for years.
Manfred also addressed the respective stadium situations in Tampa Bay and Oakland. He again suggested Las Vegas could be a viable landing spot for the A’s if they’re unable to work out a deal in the Bay Area. Manfred confirmed that the Rays have made a proposal to the league’s executive committee regarding the franchise’s hopes for splitting home games between Tampa and Montreal. (John Romano of The Tampa Bay Times explored the issue at greater length earlier in the week). The executive committee has yet to weigh in on the topic, Manfred said this afternoon.
Finally, the league announced the previously-reported decision to provide housing for minor league players in 2022. Josh Norris of Baseball America shed some light on the details, reporting that teams will now be responsible for leases and utility agreements for players on minor league contracts who make less than $20K per month. Norris adds further details on the base amenities (including utilities, electricity and WiFi) that acceptable residences must include. His full piece is a worthwhile read for those interested in the specifics of the new policy.
Vizionaire
manfraud! that aside hope the players have saved a lot of money!
Halo11Fan
Manfred is right. It’s insane for the owners to start the season without a CBA. They tried that before. 1981 was a joke of a season where the team with best record in baseball didn’t make the post season and another time there was no World Series.
Manfred is 100 percent right. Let’s work out a deal and avoid 1981 and 1994.
Sometime the owners are right and sometimes the players are right. If a fan doesn’t realize this, the fan is wrong.
BlueSkies_LA
If the owners tried an approach other than making proposals they know the players can’t possible accept, this argument might begin to sound believable.
Halo11Fan
Blue sky, I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but if the players played under the current agreement and promised not to strike this year I doubt the owners would lockout.
BlueSkies_LA
Is that option even on the table?
Patrick OKennedy
Owners would happily continue the current CBA indefinitely. While they’d love to have expanded playoffs, they would also receive the $12.7 billion in revenue over the next 7 years from new deals with Turner, Fox and ESPN. Local TV revenue contracts often double with each new deal over the past five years. Owners would love to not share any of that.
Player salaries have declined the past three seasons while over a dozen teams have payrolls under $100 million as revenues continue to soar- pandemic notwithstanding.
Players have a longer wish list than the owners. They would like to see minimum salaries, the tax thresholds, and other salary limitations increased with revenue growth.
Manfred postures about locking out the players because there is no deal, effectively freezing all free agent signings while MLB has failed to make any proposal that is even close to reasonable.
Players are not going to accept a lower tax threshold that would immediately put seven more teams above the cap. They’re not going to accept eliminating the arbitration system that has been in place since 1970- forty years, in favor of an age based system that would delay free agency for some of the game’s biggest stars. Those proposals are not serious offers.
StlSwifty
Why would they even consider implementing a pre tacked ball for next season after only having a trial period of a single spring training?!? Seems a little premature … can’t see why the players would want that at all…
Franklin
They have alot to save. Their salaries are MILLIONS better than those who have to WORK for a living
mj-2
Pulling for a strike so Braves can stay champions forever
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Manfred isn’t capable of zipping his own fly up
skip 2
I’d say down! Lol
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
LOL … Well either way
Gwynning
I pictured Squints saying “for-ev-er… for-ev-er…”
Ted
Braves won the first WS after the 94 stoppage and probably the last WS before this one. Not the kind of history you want to make.
gbs42
A title is a title. That other stuff is irrelevant.
Not a clever name
Spoken like a true dodger fan
48-team MLB
I think you need to play at least 2/3 of a normal schedule to call a title legit…but 1981 isn’t completely legit due to the split-season format.
gbs42
@Not clever – If you’re referring to me, I am not a Dodgers fan.
gbs42
48-team – The Dodgers had to win more playoff series than any other team in baseball history to win the World Series last year. Those were the rules, they won the games they were required to, so they are legit champions to me.
48-team MLB
@gbs42 The Dodgers only had to win one more postseason game than a Wild Card team has to win and they didn’t have to deal with opposing crowds or travel during the middle of a series. 60 games with no fans, playing only nine of the other 29 teams during the regular season and neutral sites in the postseason is not the same as any other champion in World Series history.
gbs42
48-team – No, it’s not the same as any other WS champion, but they played the hand they were dealt and did what 29 other teams didn’t. That makes them 2020 champions.
48-team MLB
They did win in 2020…but 2020 was not a legitimate season.
gbs42
That’s a matter of opinion, so I suppose we’ll agree to disagree.
48-team MLB
That’s the equivalent of the NFL playing six games or the NBA and NHL playing 30. Not legit. It needs to be at least 2/3 of a normal schedule…and none of that split-season garbage from 1981.
eightmilebend
Love it ! Mic drop
48-team MLB
Splitting home games between two cities is a ridiculous idea. If Tampa can’t handle a full season’s worth of home games then relocate the team completely.
LordD99
Yes.
costergaard2
The Brooklyn Dodgers split the seasons in Jersey City, NJ, and then did leave for LA
48-team MLB
@costergaard2
I was there. 3000 years ago.
smuzqwpdmx
The Blue Jays split last season between 3 cities. The Expos split time between Montreal and San Juan.
48-team MLB
The Blue Jays split last season between three cities because of Covid. The Expos split the 2003 and 2004 seasons while they were in the process of relocating. Neither of those teams split games between multiple cities with that as a permanent solution in mind. They were temporary situations and they knew that going in.
mkeyankee
Tampa has a 35 year lease to Tampa Bay. You fixing to pay to break that contract?
48-team MLB
Tampa is stuck where they are through 2027. You’re talking about Miami.
tiredolddude
Like many dinosaurs, I love the game and admire the talents of the ballplayers. But the continuing greed of all parties sure makes feeding pigeons in the park on warm summer evenings a better possible alternative
Ducky Buckin Fent
As do I @dude.
But get a dog. A shotgun or two. A fly rod. Maybe a boat. That way, who cares what these guys do? & it beats throwing breadcrumbs to the pigeons.
FOmeOLS
Two shotguns is never enough. A .410 for practice, 12 gauge for ducks, 10 for geese, and slugs for the bad guys.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Valid point is valid point.
But – for me personally – I quibble with some of the exact details, @fomeols.
For waterfowl it’s all big stuff for me: canvasback, geese, some cranes, some sea ducks.
So: Browning Gold Light 10.
Browning Sweet 16 (because: grouse & rabbit.)
Browning A-bolt 12ga for turkey.
Benelli SBE backs up them all.
Might have to rethink my stance on a .410.
The bad guys get something completely different
hd-electraglide
@Ducky….Agree, Benelli SBE II does the job in bayou country for Mallards, Woodies, Green & Blue Wing Teal, especially with Vortex high flyer choke tube. Also can take care of gobblers, & doves. Deer another thing though, can’t beat BAR 300 Win Mag with BOSS accuracy system. Varmits and pigs, well AR15 is the choice.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yeah, that’s a much different ballgame than what I’m playing up here. Even though my Benelli is my least used shotgun due to the “specialization” of my Brownings, if I could have only one (God forbid!) it’d be the SBE.
Planning an elk trip for next August. Going with a .300 Win Mag actually. Was thinking that I will probably go with another Sako. But the BAR caught my eye. Would appreciate your input.
Only gone hog hunting once (used my bear gun. A Sako 85 in .338 federal). But it is the one type of southern hunting I would love to do more of.
Is it deer season down there? & let’s hope one of the Lola Granola’s doesn’t stumble into this…
hd-electraglide
I wouldn’t hesitate with either the BAR or Sako, but I prefer the BAR, just personal preference. I’ve got Leopold Glass on BAR, and have been completely satisfied with it. Lots of folks prefer bolt action to auto, but I’ve never had an issue with them. Have a bolt .270 Browning Medallion, that’s used in areas where deer or smaller. The 300 has the knockdown power. Yes sir, deer season opened first weekend of Nov. southern states are being plagued by deer wasting disese. Not good. Elk hunt sounds great. Packing ‘‘em out can be a bit tricky depending where you are. Yeah maybe those folks will just pass this by.
Hogs down here are a menace. Will get up a farm. Lot of good sausage though.
Be safe!
WhoNoze
.410 nice ladies gun. I have a Belgium Browning S16; the trigger is no longer gold but everything else is original.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Appreciate the input.
I am enamored by that Sako S20. My experience has been great with my 85 hunter. I prefer semi autos for wing shooting; upland an waterfowl.
Prefer bolts for precision shooting. Turkey & black bear. Those should be one shot & put ’em in a heap. Ideally anyway. But I do get follow ups. Just a little slower.
I’ve been life long bear hunter. So no to the engineering problems they require to extricate. Spent some money on a Backow Mule a fat tire ebike for hunting. Helps tremendously with packing bear out so should help with an elk. But pulleys & sleds, & grit will still be needed.
I haven’t deer hunted in 19 years. But I know chronic wasting disease was a real issue up here too. From my limited understanding, it is cyclical. My girlfriend goes back to the rez for deer hunting. Doesn’t seem to be effecting the whitetails in North Dakota .
Yanks have one of those guys. But he is actually a decent fella. We just disagree on hunting. Strongly.
I could do a lot of that. It’s just not really a thing out here. Appreciate the take on the BAR. Like I said, it’s a close second on my list.
You too, Harley.
Ducky Buckin Fent
I picked up a Kauger Arms Tomahawk in .41o.
16″ barrel, bolt action pistol. Thought it could fulfill a niche for turkey hunting. It’s just simply underpowered & underranged IMO. Sold it Armslist. No good for rabbits. & my scoped Buckmark hunter is for superior for squirrels/misc.
Wish it were available in 20ga.
FOmeOLS
Well, I’m a purist. Everything I have is a side by side Ithaca, except a lovely browning copy of a Winchester 42. One day I’ll hit something with it.
For the bad guys, I have a 1911.
“Why do you have a .45?”
“Because they don’t make a .46”
FOmeOLS
It’s very old-fashioned, but I swear my my 1940-era Savage 99 in 300 Savage.
Ducky Buckin Fent
That’s awesome!
My grandpere was the same way. SXS for waterfowl, O/U for upland (Parkers). I just like to leave a greater margin for error. & I loathe getting skunked.
Same. 1911 Officer’s Model. Her & I have this long running very complicated relationship. She would also be the only “weapon” I own, as the rest of my guns are clearly sporting arms.
48-team MLB
Speaking of dinosaurs, it’s about time we get an MLB franchise named after one.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Perhaps. Be a rip-off of a KBO team, however.
How about the Sacramento McBaseballers to pacify those who have become completely divorced from where food comes from & what it is? I would add the Portland Granola Heads so we can be all inclusive.
Like it or not, son (may I call you “son”?) there is quite a large number of sportsmen on the board. Cuts across generations, politics, & geography. Can’t say the same about very many other things, son.
For Love of the Game
Millionaires arguing with billionaires. Grow up! You all have it great, so figure our how to divide up the billions we fans pay to watch the game.
Vizionaire
many players are not millionairs.
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
*most
costergaard2
The MLB minimum is >$500k
Down with OBP
Workers fighting with people who profit off their labour. Fixed it for you.
feeznutz
Oh dang dude!! You totally showed him!! GREAT JOB!
For Love of the Game
Spoken like a true Marxist, Downer. You must work in government or academia to have an attitude like that, someone who’s only signed the back of a paycheck, never the front. (Nor do you probably understand what that means.)
WhoNoze
Thought he was being sarcastic…can’t believe he actually thinks the players are victims of oppression.
Not a clever name
To be fair how can a fella pay for a lease and utilities on less than 20k per month?
MWeller77
@ForLove This is not the sick burn you think it is. You’re basically saying that you either exploit workers yourself or that you lick the boots of others who exploit workers. Kind of a self-own there, tough guy.
WhoNoze
Nothing inherently immoral about exploitation. It’s one of those words that have been redefined to fit a p[olitical agenda, in this case, Marx & others to denigrate a basic tenent of Capitalism; the use of a natural resource and labor that results in productivity. So long as the labor is not derived from involuntary servitude, it’s a contractural agreement between employer and employee. Literally all labor is exploited, even if it’s for a non-profit, so long as it results in productivity.
Kayrall
Found the commie.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Players that make less than $20K per month in the minors? Surely that’s a typo… My guess is $20K per season?
nats3256
20k is right. remember they only get paid during the season. so 20k April-sept is 100k. I read somewhere else that anybody under 100k a year gets the housing
Vizionaire
might as well build dorms for minor league players.
baseball1010
Nobody gets housing in the minors.
Not a clever name
Poor guys that’s like seasonal work, maybe they can pick lettuce in the winter time, or work at the docks, gotta make ends meet and 100k in a just not getting it done in most minor league towns like Visalia or Fresno, hopefully the BBB plan has a proponent in it to help these poor fella’s.
baseball1010
A player with 5 years in the minors makes 3,000. a month. That is the scale MLB puts in their first time Minor league contracts.
ottoc 2
And the minor league season begins after then MLB one starts and ends about in the first week of September, so for sake of simplicity let’s say it is six months in length or 26 weeks. $3000 x 6 = $18,000 or a little less than $700 per week, some of which goes to various taxes.
The state I live in claims to have no sales tax yet if you go to a restaurant you pay 8.5% tax on your food; you also pay that on any prepared, ready-eat-food at grocery stores and the same rate is applied to room rentals (and we do have a minor league team).
Not a clever name
@baseball1010 I can sympathize with 15k a year, but at 100k for 5 months of work not so much. Perhaps they should set the threshold at 52k the average us salary or even 75k annually to account for the fact they move around a lot. But beyond that amount it’s hard to sympathize with them when most of us fans made far less in our early 20’s
MWeller77
@NotClever Where are you getting this 100k a year figure? No one in the minors makes that.
You need a farm to make all the straw for the straw men in your argument. You took completely made-up figures and then made satirical comments based on those made-up figures. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough for this.
WhoNoze
“A player in the minors makes 3,000 a month” is more than a bit vague, as it depends on the level, which ranges from $1500/Mo in Low A to $10,000/Mo in AAA. No player is going to spend 5 yrs in A Ball.
LordD99
It’s not as if the owners have to lock the players out on December 1.
BlueSkies_LA
No but it sure seems like they want to do it.
User 4245925809
Pretty sure reasoning behind ST and earlier lockout is MLBPA ALWAYS attempts, since the ’82 player strike to get several player checks before striking themselves.
It’s not like either side is better than the other with work stoppages, only many here always take the side of the “oppressed” workers, making now 500k+ league minimum, knowing last year a strike was a possibility and we can all be pretty sure most saved little to nothing in case it occurred, but can bet there will be sob stories in abundance from the same folks putting out other nonsense in the news lately.
BlueSkies_LA
You lost me at oppressed workers. I believe you are speaking in code,
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
As far apart as the sides seem to be at this point, any guesses as to the probability of a 162 game season in ’22? I doubt I’m alone in thinking a work stoppage would be a disaster, yet these guys are miles and miles apart.
For Love of the Game
Doesn’t seem promising, Hub, does it?
mike156
Labor disputes between phenomenally wealthy owners squaring off against mostly extremely-well-compensated talent are just going to happen…it would be nice to see them work it out. But if they don’t, they don’t and we will just have to wait. There are no heroes here, just a lot of money being argued over
IronBallsMcGinty
I actually am open to the idea of pitch clocks.
FOmeOLS
Close.
Remember, avoid any change that solves no problem, addresses no issues, and clutters up the rule book. Pitch clocks are stupid, and useless. They solve nothing.
IACub
in my naive brain I think having the 2nd base umpire enforce an unofficial pitch and the home plate umpire actually enforce batters leaving the box would box. but then I’ve seen enough umpires go on an ego trip to understand that it probably wouldn’t work out
A penguin that likes baseball
Hey, I just want to know. Who has the upper hand in the CBA negotiations? Is it the players or owners? This is a genuine question that I’m curious about.
Vizionaire
no sides should have upper hands. but the owners have deeper pockets.
A penguin that likes baseball
Cool thanks
giantsphan12
@A Penguin, this is just my opinion, but as Vizionaire stated the owners have MUCH deeper pockets. Thus, while they are typically shrewd business people who hate to lose money, I think they can afford to wait out the players. In essence, while the players aren’t getting paid to play, the owners can stick to their negotiating points and wait for the players to cave. I sure hope that it doesn’t go down that way though.
Thomas E Snyder
Yes. (Genuine answer)
cookmeister 2
I don’t know who has the upper hand, but IMO the owners I think have the better stance. They have submitted numerous proposals (however off they might be, they’re still proposals) while the players have countered what, once?
I think the players want far more than the owners want. It seems like every single thing the players want is a deal breaker for them, which doesn’t bode well in negotiations
Patrick OKennedy
The players have made two offers, one in May and one in October that was similar. The owners made one proposal in August that they know is a complete non starter, and they offered more details a week ago. They have yet to make a serious offer.
Rsox
Manfred and Clark actually makes me miss Bud Selig and Donald Fehr
Halo11Fan
I never will miss Fehr. His congressional testimony was a pathetic embarrassment. It took an act of Congress to get a PED testing and Marvin Miller was appalled.
Sometimes the owners are right. Sometimes the players are right.
There should be a floor, there should be a luxury tax threshold. There needs to be something done about manipulating service time. There should be something done to get some players to free agency sooner.
Rsox
6 years of straight team controll beginning when you make your MLB debut would be my suggestion. This way it doesn’t matter if you play your first MLB game on opening day or Labor day your clock starts ticking. It would end service time manipulation and actually allow prospects who deserve to be on the opening day roster to not have to sit in the minors til mid-may waiting for that all important additional year of controll.
tuna411
@Rsox … players who played well enough to get called up in July or August wouldn’t see mlb until the following April.
Rsox
Under my idea if you get called up in July your six season clock begins. So is you are called up at any point in 2022 you will be a free agent after the 2027 season
48-team MLB
Here’s what I would do…
1. The Rockies and Rays both switch leagues.
2. The Rays relocate to Charlotte and the Athletics relocate to Las Vegas. Both teams change their names.
3. Expansion teams are added in Nashville and Portland to give the league 32 teams.
4. The leagues are realigned into four divisions of four teams each.
AL…
Baltimore, Boston, New York (Yankees), Toronto
Chicago (White Sox), Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota
Colorado, Houston, Kansas City, Texas
Las Vegas (formerly Oakland), Los Angeles (Angels), Portland (expansion), Seattle
NL…
New York (Mets), Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington
Chicago (Cubs), Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis
Atlanta, Charlotte (formerly Tampa Bay), Miami, Nashville (expansion)
Arizona, Los Angeles (Dodgers), San Diego, San Francisco
kodiak920
Please, no expansion. We have too many teams as it is. Probably inevitable, though. Not sure if Atlanta and Washington would like a team in Charlotte.
48-team MLB
That doesn’t stop other sports leagues from having a team in Charlotte.
Rsox
The NFL only has 8 (or 9 now, i guess) home games and several times the teams play home games opposite of eachother so revenues are not necessarily greatly impacted. The only other sport that has teams in Atlanta, Washington, and Charlotte is the NBA and attendance and revenue issues are slightly different than those of MLB as far as television territories are concerned
48-team MLB
The NHL had teams in Atlanta, DC, and Raleigh at one point. Put a team in Raleigh if you don’t like Charlotte.
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
Congratulations, you solved a problem that no one had.
48-team MLB
It literally mentioned the Oakland and Tampa Bay stadium situations in the article. Those two franchises are holding up expansion.
Perksy
I’d rather see contraction than expansion. Too many teams in the league to begin with, adding more teams and divisions will just water it down. We already have too many that dont spend.
48-team MLB
There’s no way they’ll contract. They want to expand the game and 32 teams would also make scheduling much simpler.
Vizionaire
$2 million expansion fee seem too high especially when many teams are even worth that much.
Dustyslambchops23
I like everything except the 4 team division.
Would much prefer balanced schedules so that teams don’t play eachother 19 games a year anymore.
48-team MLB
They could do eight-team divisions but that seems like a lot of teams per division.
Dustyslambchops23
Especially now with wild cards the fairest thing is no divisions, every in the AL plays eachother equally.
Thomas E Snyder
That’s the way it used to be for decades (8 teams per league) with no interleague play, just 22 games each against the other 7 teams in the league.
rrieders
You can even switch up expansion sites and it still works. For example Montreal instead of Charlotte and Montreal can move to East and Nats to the South or have a team in Austin and move the Rockies to the West.
FOmeOLS
That has absolutely nothing to do with the problems being addressed right now. Yay expansion. So what? We need to get a CBA first. Then we can yak about teams
48-team MLB
The Pacific Northwest and the Southeast are severely underrepresented in MLB (especially the PNW) and two of the three teams that actually are in the Southeast get no fan support. Charlotte and Nashville would give Atlanta true Southeast rivals…and Seattle is basically isolated from the rest of the league.
terry g
With less than 2 week until the deadline I won’t hold my breathe this bunch reaches an agreement.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I don’t know all of these rules but anyone who wants to put a free runner on second in an extra inning game to speed the game up is wrong.
At least he changed the All-Star game from WS home field advantage but that was more tolerable than runners on second in an extra inning game.
Perksy
Or the ridiculous 7 inning doubleheaders. Pitchers having to face a min of 3 batters. Possible expansion of playoffs. I’m convinced Manfred hates baseball and wants to turn the sport into football or basketball.
Bigtimeyankeefan
Guys, get used to it … no baseball until at least June when some players begin to break ranks with the union
Thomas E Snyder
2020 all over again.
BlueSkies_LA
A lockout would do tremendous damage to the game, frustrate and alienate the fans, and make coming to an agreement even more difficult, but we’re probably going to do it anyway. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
FOmeOLS
Manfred Is the worst thing to happen to major league baseball in 50 years. It is unthinkable why the owners consider him to be worth keeping.
There are no adjectives negative enough and yet clean enough to use. Unfortunately, Tony Clark isn’t any better, but his problem is just that he doesn’t know how to do what he has been hired to do, so he is incompetent rather than evil. Times are bad for baseball fans, but the Houston folks will always have that World Series victory, that nobody is allowed to refer to as tainted…
coldgoldenfalstaff
Astros fans hate him too.
FOmeOLS
Yeah but you don’t complain about that tainted World Series victory that resulted in no punishment and no repercussions.
Thomas E Snyder
Hinch and Luhnow suspended for one year. First two draft picks surrendered the past two years. This “no punishment and no repercussions” lie is getting old. (And before you bring it up, have you never heard of immunity for truthful testimony? It happens in court cases all the time.)
FOmeOLS
(Yawn) those aren’t repercussions.
“OH MY GOD IVE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR A YEAR.”
BFD.
Daniella
Those aren’t good enough punishments. At the very least the title should’ve been stripped but if not then banishments for all involved
Ducky Buckin Fent
I dunno, man.
When is enough, enough? Ya know? They received the maximum punishment allowed. It reminds me of Bonds & Rodriguez & PEDs in that it wasn’t necessary. That was an excellent ballclub. They didn’t need any artificial advantage. Same thing with the best two ballplayers of my generation.
’17 Astros took out my Yanks. A lot of our fans have a pretty hard time letting go. But I guess I would rather focus on things I like about the game, then ruminate on the things I don’t.
getrealgone2
Rob the Knob.
lettersandnumbersonly
Hard for me to believe with all the millions of fans that there aren’t a bunch of really talented attorneys amongst us that can organize representation and advocacy for us fans.
Owners have a seat at the table.
Players do too.
How about us fans?
Don’t we deserve a seat? A voice? A vote in the determination of our sport?
There would be no players (at least none making more than minimum wage).
There would be no owners (cause there’s nothing to own and no interest in owning it if it can’t make money)
Without FANS.
Paying fans. Fans that buy tickets, licensed gear, watch the tv that media companies pay for rights to, buy the products that advertisers pay to hawk their goods to.
Yes, we deserve a say. Yes, we deserve a vote.
And we can’t do it by ourselves.
Cause if I stay home? There will still be 30,000 at the game.
We need representation.
We need organization.
Dustyslambchops23
You vote with your wallet
Thomas E Snyder
TV fans seem to think they should have a seat at the table to help decide on shows to cancel and input into how the scripts evolve but they don’t.
KD17
lettersandnumbersonly – OUTSTANDING!!
I’ve long argued that there should be three parties in baseball; Players, Owners and Fans. The problem is the industry is not a game it’s a business. Fix that aspect and the triumvirate of control becomes feasible.
Two greedy groups fighting head to head with an idiot mediator who pretends to stand for the best interest of the game has been a failing structure for many, many years.
To make things worse there are so many factions within each group and they all have their own agendas!! The owners can be divided into the small market teams, the medium market teams, the large market teams and LAD and NYY. Most of the teams would prefer profit sharing and an effective cap but they don’t have the clout to change the dominance of the Yankees and more recently the Dodgers. The cap is supposed to be a deterrent to spending but it doesn’t work for LAD and NYY. Thank goodness the front offices care more about appearances than actually winning. Otherwise, teams like San Francisco, Boston and St. Louis wouldn’t be able to dominate winning in baseball with much smaller payrolls.
There is no easy answer. I prefer to see the sport returned to being a sport with equal starting points each season but carry-over benefits from smart choices. In other words, each team pays an entrance fee to be in baseball each year. It’s the basis for their payroll. Players a paid a salary with incentives tied to the success of the individual as well as the team. Win the world series and be the MVP and you earn the most money in baseball that year even if your base pay may not be at the top end of the pay scale. The concessions are run by the individual organizations independently. The merchandising and media money is pooled and shared equally. That way when a new star creates a huge demand for merchandise everyone benefits. If a massive TV contract happens everyone benefits. Ownership in large and small markets become profitable with a more fairly distributed wealth. The Profits from Merchandising and Media are split evenly between the clubs and the players. The players have a system for incentives that distribute the profits based on individual performances. The owner money is also allocated to teams based on performance after all initial entrance fees are returned or rolled to the next season.
This won’t ever fly because of the huge franchises but the small, medium and some of the large ones will see value in this type of system because it would mean for the same investment an Owner in Kansas City could make as much or more as an owner in NY if their team won the world series. The key will be to have 30 franchise owners with deep enough pockets to put up the initial entry fee. Think of it like the World Series of Poker. Everyone pays to participate and performance dictates the money made. The players can’t complain because they get as much as the owners like they have always argued. The small market teams have a far greater upside but the huge market teams don’t. Will that limit the number of owners that will want to invest in this sports oriented adventure? I don’t think so.
Will it piss off the current huge market owners? You bet. Will the competitive balance be fixed? You bet. Will fans see lower ticket prices? That’s where the triumvirate becomes critical. The ticket prices around the league are fixed and tied to some well accepted index for inflation while the luxury boxes are controlled by the individual team much like the concessions. A minimum number of public seats are to exist in all stadiums (35,000?) and available to season ticket holders and the general public for each game. If a team like the NYY can create and sell more luxury suites than KC that’s fine and helps them improve their non-baseball profits just like the concessions or restaurants in their baseball structure.
Can this realistically happen? No I don’t think so but I wish a guy like Bob Costas (any independent baseball lover Costas was an example) could be deemed the fixer of baseball by Congress to replace the current commissioner role which historically has answered to ownership. Congress can impose this oversight person in light of the benefit the sport receives with regard to it’s antitrust exemption.
That’s how I’d fix things!!
BlueSkies_LA
The commissioner not just historically but always answers to the owners, and nobody else, and that will never change because he is employed by them. Whenever he opens his mouth, the voice of the owners comes out. The only voice the fans have is the power of their feet. If the fans keep spending on the game no matter how much it gets screwed up then expect more of the same. It’s like buying a defective product and when it breaks buying another just like it. That product will never get fixed, and why should it?
End of story.
Bud Selig Fan
@KD17 Extremely thoughtful post, and your spot on about the real problem with the game — competitive balance.
Baseball needs another Bud Selig, a small-market owner with the salesmanship & consensus-building skills to convince owners that the trajectory of revenue disparity between the large & and small-markets will eventually hurt all teams, and destroy the game.
He convinced Steinbrenner and other large-market owners 30+ rears ago the game needed revenue-sharing not just to allow the SM to compete but to keep them from being contracted. He was right, revenue-sharing and new stadiums gave the SM teams the ability to compete.
Then in the early 2000’s local TV deals for the behemoths exploded and over the last 10+ years the revenue gap between the markets has grown more than ever. Add in the real-estate revenue from teams like the Cubbies, Braves, Cardinals and other high-medium and large-markets and the revenue gap is as large as it has been in the history of the game.
And now with this next CBA expected to have changes to service time further hurting the SM teams — TRAJECTORY is the key word here.
Eventually the key issue facing baseball will have to be addressed AGAIN, like it was 30 years ago, but this time there’s no Bud Selig.
Solution—revenue sharing of all revenue, which will allow for a salary floor, which will eliminate tanking and improve competitive balance. The rest of the financial issues between players and owners can be worked out with all teams on more of an equal financial footing.
BlueSkies_LA
Oh, boy. Selig had a big hand in the 1994 strike, and had conflicts of interest left and right. But he sure did remove any question of whether the commissioner was a tool of ownership. Might as well add that Selig replaced Fay Vincent, one of the few commissioners in recent history who had the backbone to stand up to ownership on occasion, and for his trouble was booted out. Yeah, another Bud Selig, that’s the answer. So remind me, what was the question?
youngTank15
You don’t need to be a fan. Being a fan isn’t a job or a business.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Should you get a seat at the table the next time Ford or GM negotiate with the IAW because you drive a car?
Your “seat at the table” is in the stands. Buy it or don’t buy it. That is your representation.
Mahin Choudhury
The service time clock for young major league players and eligibility for salary arbitration need to be fixed, These are the big issues right now in the CBA talks. I am not thinking about expansion at this time, it is too early to talk about it. But I think MLB should start considering talking about plans for the A’s to relocate to another city.
48-team MLB
As long as they change their name.
Which city?
Portland Thunderbirds
Las Vegas Vipers
San Antonio Scorpions
Austin (pick a name)
Thomas E Snyder
Austin City Limits?
BirdieMan
Players and owners both, need to stop waiting for the last minute and get a CBA done. There’s plenty of money to go around for both sides.
Dustyslambchops23
I was just wondering about why it ends up being so last min. Why not try to wrap it up a year early
dale123
If there is a lockout. Does it effect the winter meetings the next week in anyway but players signing contracts?just wondering
Yep it is
Manfred doesn’t have a clue. Losing fans and not gaining any younger ones. Pathetic then add Tony “ how do I have a job” Clark and you have a complete dumpster fire
Halo11Fan
Not having a clue would be allowing the players to strike right when summer hits.
If Manfred was promised no strike in 2022, he’d never lockout.
Some fans have no clue. Over the last 50 years, have a much better chance to produce faster better results.
True2theorange&blue
They should move up the age a player should reach free agency, wouldn’t hurt so much giving a player a larger and longer contract if it’s in their true prime years instead of giving a 29 year old a 10-13 year contract
30 Parks
Lockout or strike – semantics & posturing. Billionaires squabbling with millionaires. Any type of work interruption is unacceptable. Professional sports are badly out-of-step with reality.
pjmcnu
Is there a Roger Goodell Memorial Award that Manfred is trying to win? A lockout would be incredibly stupid & tone deaf.
Beast0830
They should just fire all the players and start over. Nobody makes more than 1 million a year and no parking fees and cut prices in half.
smuzqwpdmx
Why don’t you just watch an independent league or foreign league instead of MLB?
Actually, if a lockout causes the CPBL to start doing English broadcasts again it’ll be worth it.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The average age of an MLB customer is somewhere between the average age of Metamucil and hearing age customers.
Work stoppage probably not a great idea.
tymeslayer
I resemble that remark. They stop playing and I’m not coming back.
richt
If a guy is making $19k per month in the minors, he definitely does not need help with his housing. If that’s under $2k per month, then sure.