Representatives from the owners and the MLB Players Association met today for an extended series of talks, a day in advance of the league’s self-imposed deadline to avoid the cancellation of regular-season games. More negotiations are scheduled for Monday at 9am CT, following multiple sessions today that took place over almost a six-hour time period.
This marks the seventh consecutive days of negotiations between the two sides, as the clock continues to tick towards both the owners’ February 28 deadline and the start of the regular season on March 31. Some Spring Training games have already been canceled by the lockout, and if a new collective bargaining agreement was reached by tomorrow, teams would face a whirlwind of a month consisting of both an abbreviated Spring Training, and essentially three months of lost offseason business crammed into roughly a four-week window.
Given both the lack of progress and some open frustration emerging during yesterday’s talks, it seems like a longshot that a new CBA will actually be struck by tomorrow. As Chelsea Janes of The Washington Post notes, the unofficial nature of the owners’ February 28 deadline means that it could be pushed back if there is actual movement towards an agreement, and the players are likely to make such a case if some noteworthy progress is made tomorrow.
A league official told multiple reporters (including The Boston Globe’s Michael Silverman) that today’s talks were “productive,” as the two sides discussed both core economic issues and other CBA items not directly related to economics. However, the league and the MLBPA are still “far apart” on many of these issues, according to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale (Twitter links), and today’s talks included “a lot of hypotheticals” under discussion and no actual proposals from either side.
One detail from the league’s side relates to the luxury tax threshold, as The Athletic’s Evan Drellich and Ken Rosenthal report that the owners have “indicated willingness” to raise the levels of the Competitive Balance Tax thresholds beyond their past offers. It wouldn’t be a big raise, however, past the $214MM that the league submitted yesterday as the initial tax threshold.
Past reports indicated that the owners’ offers to eliminate the qualifying offer (and thus eliminating the draft-pick penalty for teams who signed a QO-rejecting free agent) was linked to the CBT negotiations, specifically with the league looking for higher taxation rates for teams who exceed the CBT tiers, according to Drellich/Rosenthal. Presumably, owners see the elimination of the qualifying offer as a significant enough concession to counter the MLBPA’s demands for much higher luxury tax thresholds, though the union clearly doesn’t see the two matters as a worthwhile trade-off.
The topic of an expanded postseason has also been a key part of CBA talks, as MLBTR’s Anthony Franco explored back in December. With the owners eager for more teams (and thus more games and more TV revenue) in the playoffs, the MLBPA has been trying to leverage this desire into making gains on other economic issues. Most recently, the expanded playoffs also factored into the February 28th deadline, as the union has said that they won’t agree to a larger postseason field whatsoever if the owners withhold pay due to canceled regular-season games.
Rosenthal (Twitter links) has some details on the MLBPA’s offer for a new playoff format, which includes an increase in the number of postseason teams from 10 to 12. The owners have been pushing for a 14-team postseason, though in both 12-team and 14-team scenarios, the union’s offer includes the concept of a “ghost win” in the first playoff round as a reward to teams who win their division. For example, a division-winning team would only have to win one of the first two games of a first-round series in order to advance, while the wild card opponent would have to win both contests.
In short, the idea would to incentivize winning a division title, which would theoretically entice teams to spend more on player salaries in order to be more competitive. The MLBPA has seen the concept of a larger playoff field as a possible drag on spending, as teams have less urgency or a bigger margin for error in reaching the postseason. The league’s 14-team offer did propose awarding a first-round bye to the teams with the best records in the AL and NL, and the other four division winners would have the benefits of both hosting the entire wild card series in their home ballpark, and also choosing which of the wild card teams they’d want to play.
One good sign is that the MLBPA isn’t leaking things in order to bargain in the media.
That’s a stupid lack of a take
Harold Reynolds’s has a similar take. It’s not a stupid take at all. It’s an incomplete take, the owners are not leaking either.
The clubs don’t leak. The reporters complain about it frequently, that the clubs are disciplined and don’t release negotiating details. MLBPA thought it was a good idea to leak info to spin the bargaining and bargain in the media, but now their problem is that they have to compromise and the final deal will be nowhere near their demands. So because of their conduct, they will appear to their internet supporters to be losing. A problem they created for themselves. Never has this happened with these parties before, and Dan Halem has been the epitome of reserve and patience with it. imo
Harold Reynolds is terrible
Harold is terrible to the E!SPN crowd. Enjoyable to most others.
Guy that thinks Harold Ramirez is better than Nimmo lol
David1979: That’s because Harold Ramirez IS better than Nimmo….wait, who’s Harold Ramirez, again?
“Their Internet supporters”??
WHY would you presume the player’s union gives a hoot what their “Internet supporters” think? Most “Internet supporters” (er TROLLS) put no actual skin into the game…other than bitching and whining on here of course LOL
Harold Reynolds is an idiot.
@david1979
Keep watching E!SPN and that SNY Mets Hyperbole.
The owners are the bad guys
No, they’re not. The owners are the good guys and so are the players.
In you opinion and I think that your opinion suck. That’s my opinion.
That is to davidk1979
Hard to respect your opinion when you resort to insults and can’t speak in a proper way..
Look at you fools in here arguing and calling each other names over mlb teams and owners that don’t care one bit about us. SMH at you all
Exactly!
@Best Screenname Ever, I think that is very significant, and positive.
This is the best comment so far, 5 p.m. PT.
Yeah, because at no time in these negotiations, have the owners leaked anything to the media to put pressure on the players. Give me a break. I’m not saying the players are innocent, but both sides have done their share of dirty dealing. To act like one side is above it is just stupid, and I’m getting tired of stupid by this point.
@SuperSloth, I agree and I just gave you an upvote.
I was just thinking how last night it was a player or two leaking tidbits and Twitters.
But you are right. I think both sides need to be slapped around, though.
Hard to imagine ‘SuperSloth, that you’re “getting tired of stupid”. If it’s true, I feel sorry you.
@SuperSloth how do you live with yourself?
Looks like I gave the players and union too much credit.
twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/14981170641244692…
For all that is holy please agree on something. I need my baseball. Mlb the show can only do so much.
Wouldn’t be up against any deadline if they didn’t waste so much time earlier in the off-season. More than a month wasted doing nothing.
That was a strategic measure by both sides
Brilliant maneuver, now there’s no leeway if anything goes wrong tomorrow
Pedro, that’s the strategy from the MLB…they drag their feet and they know the MLPA is trying to make a big swing with this CBA, so the less time the MLPA has to bargain, the less they get…because they are out of time.
It’s a jerk move and risky, but it appears to be working.
Not optimistic hope I’m wrong
This will not be settled before June
Wrong, settled by this Wednesday.
June 2025*
So you’re saying there’s a chance?
What a CBA deal might look like:
-Owners drop higher CBT taxes and draft pick penalties
– CBT thresholds start $225M
– Same CBT tax rates
– Min salary $700K in 2022, then 720, 740, 760, 780
– Pre arb Bonus pool $40M
– Super 2 arb 22-25%
– 14 team playoff
– draft lottery 5 picks, weighted
– no QO free agent comp
– teams receive FA comp for some players
– no real deterrent for tanking or service time manipulation
– no international draft
– possible shift rule, pitch clock eventually
– uniform patches
– NL DH
The most important question: Which advertisement gets the patch on their zipper?
Clearly the patch for the zipper would have to be for dicks sporting goods
Dick’s Sporting Goods?
Dick’s Sporting Goods.
Dick’s Sporting Goods!
Definitely Dick’s……..Sporting Goods.
So many strange minds thinking alike on here!
Aww, screw Dick’s.
Cabela’s > Dick’s
They still sell {gasp} guns.
Dickies Pants. So appropriate.
Hm, so would it be Dick’s dickies?
I propose a 12 team playoff no more then that only helps the owners …and I would like reverse draft order for non playoff teams… maybe take the three teams that just
missed the playoffs they go in a lottery for the #1 pick after pick three then it goes by record… teams are rewarded for competing and if you tank best pick you can get is 4
Except some teams are just actually bad and there’s just absolutely no way they could compete. You could’ve put Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani on the Orioles and they still finish 30 games out of 1st place.
Patrick, I think that all looks good except for the tanking/service time manipulation and the shift rule. I really think that has to be addressed in some way. I don’t think the MLPA is gonna let go, especially service time manipulation.
Enacting a shift rule is really dumb. I know the league wants more pull hitters to try to hit dingers, but a shift rule just feels like an anti-baseball move.
Short of an age based free agency system, there’s not much that can be done about service time manipulation except to put stronger language in the CBA and let players file a grievance. Maybe the extra year of service time for ROY will save a few.
Players seem obsessed with a draft lottery as if that will have any effect on tanking. Hardly. But the players have failed to make any proposals that force owners to spend a certain amount on salaries.
No talk about the shift recently, Manfred now seems more interested in a pitch clock. He wants to be able to implement rule changes unilaterally sooner, without player approval.
Patrick: How about this for service time manipulation, hereinafter known as STM:
Any player who believes he’s is a victim of STM shall file a grievance and have his case heard before a committee comprised of leadership from the ownership side with a designated representative, and leadership from the players’ side, with a designated union representative, to discuss whether they believe the player’s service time was manipulated.
I know, I know….. brilliant, perfect, harmonious! Pfffft, and you said there was no easy solution.
And the remedy is…..
If the team doesn’t contest the grievance, the player gets his service time
If the team contests the grievance, and loses, the player becomes a free agent and the team loses a first round draft pick
I appreciate you being kind and not telling me how stupid that idea is, as I carefully set up a negotiation style committee on both sides…lol
This inevitably results in the team contesting and an argument between the two sides over the STM that lasts for 14 years, until all the original people involved are retired and nobody cares.
Let’s raise the stakes. Public internet trial of STM. If the team loses, the team must allow its top player and the STM player to go to FA while the owner gets a death penalty. If the player loses, he’s tarred and feathered, and and must spend a 15-year career playing in the MLB adhering to minor league rules (pay, etc).
I got an interesting angle for you. how about using rule 5 eligibility as a way to determine service time. If you are eligible and protected your service time is started, if you are selected it is automatically started. If you are not selected and not brought up within that year then the following year your service time starts.
This allows the team a few years to evaluate the player with exclusivity. Then the rule 5 is a set time and deadline so there is no manipulation possible at that point for either side. Then to give the team some more flexibility there are no limits on how many times a player can be optioned up and down and primarily position players have maybe a 2 or 3 games option window and pitchers having a 5 or 6 games and maybe another season guaranteed from the super 2 eligible players so that is what a total of 6 seasons a team controls the player? Also the team can do a “franchise tag” to keep the player for one more year but it is guaranteed at a top 5 for that players primarily played position their final year.
Thoughts? Tear it apart just trying to think outside the box a little.
1 Game in the Majors = 1 year of service time.
Nothing left to manipulate.
Flyby: There was an interesting postulation by Tim Deirks in one of the discussions for service time to be counted per at-bat or per inning, which I thought was a very good, concrete way to count service time as well.
I like taking as much subjectivity out of those types of things because, let’s face it, why not wait a few weeks and keep the guy for much, much longer at a much cheaper rate if one can? Almost every single GM/POBO/owner would do that without question, and if the rules permit it, they would be stupid (in a business sense) not to.
@Patrick, YES! Put some teeth behind STM penalties.
Other than the expanded playoffs what are the wins for the owners in that proposal? Seems like a lot of what the players want but not much for the other side.
That would work, but I fear that the players will not get nearly this much.
Once MLB’s fake deadline passes tomorrow, then what?
Like Putin, I don’t believe Manfred and Company have thought through the endgame.
They extend the deadline citing they’re “making progress toward resolution” imo.
Let us hope so. The tone—or lack thereof—post today’s sessions could be taken as a positive.
Then the players invade Florida and Arizona
The invaders best be careful. Those seniors and retirees can be mean.
@ Bobby boy which players? A large number of players don’t have contracts due to no arbitration hearings to this point
It’ll be fine just as long as Manfred has left legitimate negotiating room. Can’t say the same for Putin’s mess.
RobM.. Can you imagine when they take Manfred to Hunt’s Point?
“Okay, will you take $0.07 & a stick of bubblegum?”
“$0.10 and no less? Fine then, stick of bubblegum is off the table, give it back!”
Other than Ukrainians, no other group on earth is more disgruntled than us MLB fans. And similarly, Putin has underestimated us.
They are talking……..which beats not talking.
There’s a few great wife jokes in there, but I’ll behave.
Thots and prayers
Bigamy is having one wife too any. Monogamy is the same.- Oscar Wilde
I’ve been in love with the same woman for 25 years. If my wife ever finds out, she’ll kill me! (Henny Youngman)
I’m not sure I care all that much, given what’s happening in the world. It would be a welcome distraction for pitchers and catchers, the mad rush for the remaining free agents, talk about how new prospects are tearing it up. But, MLB is a business, and I don’t see these guys seeing any higher responsibilities beyond maximizing economic returns. The owners may have reduced their top line demands by a hair, but they are still looking for a bases-clearing triple
That should be the fear for the owners, too, and the players to a lesser extent. Do the owners really want to keep baseball off the radar this long, given the overall state of anxiety?
non-baseball fans have other things to turn to if they need a distraction. baseball wouldn’t be attracting new fans because of this crisis.
Baseball had that opportunity during COVID and royally screwed the pooch. Now, I pretty much agree.
It’s remarkable how short-sighted the leadership in this sport — both at the ownership and player level — truly is.
Get it done!! I want the FA frenzy to start!!! I can’t wait for that, lol.
They haven’t even got around to talking the competitive balance tax yet. We be here a long while. Not sure why they are so focused on having 3 teams potentially buying up the league, but whatever.
Baseball better be played this year. I moved from WI to TX. Summer, like winter up north, can’t be outside. Too hot! Being stuck inside with nothing to watch. Ugh
Sugar Land Space Cowboys is the answer.
Although I hafta admit, I liked their Skeeters name much better.
Yep. And Skeeters carried some history with it.
Seems like some marketing guy had to do something and did something stupid.
Love baseball but I am sick of all of this BS. Shut it down for the season who cares!
And we’re all sick of these types of stupid comments.
If you’re done for the year move on we don’t need to hear your whining
Speak for yourself dusty. Cause he recognizes that the owners and players are fighting for our hard earned money? If they refuse to treat the people who pay their salaries with a modicum of respect then i wont be going to any games this year. Its you who can buy $10 beers $5 peanuts $100 tickets $20 parking all to watch your favorite players cry over not being rich enough
$10 beers? I would love to go to a game and only pay 10 for a beer! Beers are $10 at Stockton Ports games!
My local Single A Team sells 2 craft beers and 2 dogs for $12 bucks……
I remember those days. Our single a Ports have raised prices except for on Tuesdays. At Oracle the beers start at $18 I believe. With some more expensive of course.
Sadly thedp. The minors is where the best baseball is played nowadays. Kids fighting for their lives to make it to the show. Enduring terrible bus rides, lousy food, terrible housing. And ofcourse Manfred wants to minimize minor league teams and players. Sad state of affairs
My favorite baseball is the Arizona Fall League.. Lots of quality players enjoying themselves in the game, nice weather, small crowds (so small, crowd is the wrong word to describe the fans attending). Stadiums are great, you’re close to the action. Games are far more interesting than most of the recent MLB games I have been to.
Astros2017: So, you think the owners would charge less if the players didn’t make as many millions? No. The owners will charge the absolute maximum they can charge you while lining their pockets, which is the real reason for the $12 beers – so there’s more to that $12B in revenue. It’s all perspective, man.
They will keep taking whatever people will pay them. It’s human nature (greed).
It’s not BS. It’s all relative. Police, teachers, private businesses etc all have disputes and negotiations. Pro sports years ago were completely controlled by the owners. Because of their greed, unions were formed. It will always be tricky
Having social media obsessing over every comment doesn’t help, especially while owners are deploying stalling tactics to push players against a deadline with lost paychecks.
“..who cares!” bucin? Probably someone who “love(s) baseball”.
Did you know that you have 100% control to shut down baseball for yourself? Just don’t watch. So simple. Those of us who care, still want baseball.
No, but that’s none of our business. Let both sides get the deal done before the deadline.
But but but what about the deadline ROFL
The number of games in a season is part of the CBA. It’ hasn’t changed since 1961, but it’s negotiable. So is expanded playoffs.
Break the MLBPA union!!!
Hold the line, players!! Stand strong!!! NO MORE GIVING IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Son, a union isn’t the same thing as an onion. One of these days, maybe you’ll figure that out…don’t cry when you do.
Since I’ve been one of the (mostly) optimistic posters here, the fact that there wasn’t immediate negative commentary coming from the meetings, and some beat reporters are saying it was mostly a day of “productive talks,” then I’ll stick with my belief a deal will get done soon. They have until Wednesday to make my “deal within 10 days” prediction a week back.
My guess is they’ll play all 162.
I think there’s a good chance.
At this stage I’m inclined to agree. 162 is my bet, even though Manfred promised me they wouldn’t start until mid-May because of the date I selected in the MLBTR pool.
Tomorrow, the MLB owners and the players union will finally agree to a new CBA, put an end to the lockout and start the 2022 season on time beginning on March 31, so both sides will never be greedy or selfish.
Jesse Rogers
@JesseRogersESPN
·
3m
While the conversations were good, union source indicates they’re still far from an agreement. Nothing got checked off today.
Good is still better than what we’ve been hearing prior.
so what about the whole “hostile” thing? that felt so out of the blue to me after weeks of merely “unimpressed” and “displeased”.
Humans be humans. End of a long week. You go away, calm down, think about it and don’t take it with you the next day. Respect to both parties for a productive day.
Here’s hoping the players really want to play.
Not necessary. The players will likely agree with the owners on a high note.
The talks are productively nonproductive. Finally some good news.
We should celebrate victories, even if small.
Manfred in press conference Feb 11 (or so)
“The tax rates are status quo. They’re the same rates that are in the expired agreement.
I think one may have a five percent change. But they’re essentially status quo rates.
The only change on the non monetary side is because of the elimination of draft compensation, some of the old penalties wouldn’t work any more because they were keyed off draft compensation and there’s a substitute for what we’re giving up by the elimination of draft compensation.”
A league spokesman released a statement quickly after the presser, saying that the commissioner had “mis spoken”. But why would he say that the CBT tax rates were not changing? Something put that in his head, like a proposal that never got made?
That makes sense to me because they know full well that increasing CBT penalties will never ever get agreement. They’re just not ready to give it up until they get all that they want, or can’t get any more.
I wish the Mute button worked in the app as a whole rather than having to mute the poorly named REASON troll again on every single post.
I noticed the Mute option doesn’t work in the app. I hope Tim is aware and doesn’t think it’s functioning as intended.
This is apropos of nothing, but who else thinks Budweiser should bring back the Bud Bowl?
I agree, those were pretty nice back in the day.
Fart on them. I will be spending zero dollars on MLB this season, starting with canceling my mlb.tv streaming package. My dollars will go towards my local minor league team games.
Nonsense. Let both sides agree to a new CBA and end the lockout, and that’s that, so mind your own business.
I have Spring Training tickets for March 17, 18 and 20th. What are the odds these games don’t get cancelled.
I just want to hear trash cans banging once again
Just a guess- maybe more like a hope:
The two sides are packaging things, like you give up this and we’ll give up that. Some of the obvious big ticket things like super 2 cutoff and CBT penalties, but also trying to trade a dead cat for some value.
All these little incremental things add up.
Players gave up revenue sharing cuts and most of the super 2 arb cutoff.
Owners moved off fixed minimum salaries not going up for 5 years.
Still a few left, and some big gaps in numbers.
So, players gave up a lot, owners gave up a little. Sounds like the last few CBAs.
What did the players give up from the expired CBA? I’ll wait
First, your assumption is the expired CBA was fair and equitable. Given player salaries as a percentage of league revenue have dropped from over 50% to below 40% in the last ~15 years, I’d say it wasn’t,
While I agree that’s the players’ fault, I also understand their goal of getting back to a higher percentage. It’s not just about give-and-take based on the last CBA, it’s about the bigger picture of the last two decades.
The players have proposed going from a 10-team playoff to 12-teams. That’s about $100M per year to the teams.
Keeping the CBT and minimum salaries at the previous CBA’s levels while revenues continue to soar would be a big step back for players, so they’ve pushed for those values to be higher. Coming down off their initial requests, as well as the pre-arb cutoff, have been concessions.
Both parties’ initial asks were unreasonable. From there, the players have moved significantly. The owners not so much.
Patrick, they need to bring Willie & Snoop Dog into the room for a couple hours tomorrow & we will have a done deal.
Dogs,
Everyone would be (s)toked if that happened!
All that posturing and wasted time on BOTH sides since the end of the World Series. I feel so bad they had negotiate for long hours the past 7 plus hours after scheduling meetings then walking out after 15 minutes. Gimme a break, price of gasoline is $ 3.56, Ukraine was invaded. So sorry for them.
Actually… I’ve had enough….
I do labor negotiations for a living. The discussion of hypotheticals is frequently the path to resolution of the dispute. I take this as good news. There may not be any more formal proposals exchanged until they reach an understanding on an agreement in principle.
Nice insight ! Thank you. Mlbtr should have you on for an article about negotiations or Q and A.
If games are canceled some of these players will be losing upwards of $100,000 an at-bat; others will be losing upwards of $200,000 a game. For these poor guys, I hope things get resolved quickly 🙂
From Evan Drellich
Sources: MLB has tied eliminating direct draft pick compensation in free agency — so, getting rid of the qualifying offer — to increased CBT tax rates. League today indicated willingness to raise CBT thresholds, but not far from $214m, the current starting point in its offer.
So if that’s the case, the players will not make that trade. NO way. They won’t agree to increased tax rates or CBT penalties under any circumstances.
Any team paying compensation to sign a free agent is repugnant on it’s face, but there are so few QO’s declined and less than one player per year that actually acts as a deterrent. No deal.
As I was saying
Evan Drellich
@EvanDrellich
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25m
Replying to
@EvanDrellich
As a technical note, there were no new formal proposals today from either side. But there was a lot of discussion: if we did X, could you do Y, and so forth.
Good sign that today seems to have been productive. They have a couple of day leeway on the date to start canceling games. Season starts on the 31st so they have a few days before they eat into the 4 week cutoff
Five years ago, MLB offered to end the QO compensation for teams signing free agents, in exchange for an international draft. The players were ready to go for it- never missing a chance to throw amateur players under the bus.
But a significant group of Latin players went to the talks and strongly objected to leaving young international kids at the mercy of one team to negotiate with, having to take whatever they offered to lift their families out of poverty. So they settled on the hard bonus pool system that they have today.
See if that trade off comes back again in some form.
If Buck goes to ESPN it would want All-Star Game and World Series.
Part of new deal should be Draft Pick Trading and moving All-Star Break and Draft to around July 28th to 31st Tradedeadline,
Yeah, I love reviving the draft pick trades. I don’t see why that shouldn’t be allowed anymore. It’s the team’s choice, it’s their draft pick.
Timing the all star game so the trade deadline is the day after it would be good. That way everybody has time to get to their new team, nobody gets yanked mid-game, and there’s something for fans to follow during those boring off days. Makes a good way to symbolically launch the stretch drive and have it feel like sort of a new season with new players too.
Talking about the first and second half wouldn’t really make sense since it’d be more like the first two thirds and the last third… but the break already isn’t that close to the middle.
If it were for just one season, an entire league of replacement players playing even a 120 game schedule would be absolutely fascinating!
Imagine the stories that would come out of it. You know there would have to be at least one of the 30-something long haul trucker who was a phenom in his teens but after getting his high school sweetheart pregnant had to “man up” and “not be so selfish”, so had “no choice” but to “be practical” and “walk away from my field of dreams” [insert teary-eyed emoji here]. But now here he is, 20 years later, trying out with his son for a chance to actually play “Major League” baseball. Together. And, of course, both make the team.
And then there’s all the old guys who will take advantage of this opportunity to make a comeback. Guys who don’t care about being labeled a “scab”. Aubrey Huff could fill that position, or even, what the heck, Jose Canseco. And we might finally get to see ARod’s 700th home run (albeit off of an assistant manager of a Taco Bell), or maybe even Barry Bonds knocking in his 1,997th, 1,998th, 1,999th, and 2,000th run.
I know I’m getting carried away, but hey, why not? The season would already be joke, and if MLB would treat it that way we all could have so much fun with it.
That would be ” horrible.”
It sounds not interesting.
There are independent leagues that give you exactly these stories. The only thing missing is televised games and media coverage. Let’s just switch all the TV contracts to independent leagues for a year.
Perhaps the best case scenario would be for both sides to agree to continue negotiations past the deadline and the league to put a hold on cancelling games in a good faith effort to secure the season. There will still be positions to hammer out for a few more days. I can dream, can’t I ?
There is no way in hell that the players will agree to increase CB tax rates or penalties.
Having a team pay any penalty for signing a free agent players is repugnant, but there are almost no cases where the draft penalty actually deters a team from signing the player.
Dallas Keuchel one year, and who else? Very few. So that’s not a trade off.
A ghost win is another utterly stupid idea. What are the players smoking? They already have the advantage of a three game series entirely in their home park. If that’s not enough, then don’t expand the playoffs to include a best of three series.
Why are the players even discussing a 12 or 14 team playoff format anyway, when owners still want CB taxes and draft penalties that are higher than the CBT that just expired and has sunset?
Hi All,
I have taken a measure to help bring this mess to a close. I have asked @MetsFan22 to make a prediction that the season won’t start on time and that MLB and MLBPA won’t come to an agreement in 2022. If he obliges, you know this thing will be done by the time we wake up the next day.
Come on @MetsFan22! Use your prediction powers to end this thing! Tell us that this season is doomed!
-1
So pretty much both sides worked out the possible structure of the CBA and tomorrow will be a very long day of proposals and countering back and forth until the last moment.
I think they both set themselves up to get a deal done tomorrow.
I might bring some donuts and coffee to the meeting. Don’t worry, Millionaires and Billionaires, I’ll pick up the tab for that.
A “ghost win”? Please please please don’t expand the playoffs if that is part of the concept. Just horrible.
Fortunately, I don’t think the owners will go for ghost wins. The revenues for ghost games are rather low.
And the players, if they’re smart, will realize the ghost game doesn’t encourage winning and spending. The team that wins their way into a ghost game loses revenue by getting only a 2 game series instead of 3. Heck, a penny-pinching owner might want to intentionally lose the division to get the extra playoff home game.
Manfred is evil!
After last year’s NLDS with the best 2 MLB records, I really want playoff seeding to be “select your spot”. Instead Of the Giants having to face the WC winner, they could have picked to host the other division winner. Then the Brewers likely host the WC, Braves face Giants in NLDS and so on. If the Giants and Dodgers don’t have to go to war against each other in a 5 game series and they have a chance at a 7 game series, that’s better for the game.
Chances a deal gets done today?
youtu.be/2V3CfD8TPac
Zero point zero
I’ve never like the idea of a division winner being able to be knocked out in first round with a short series. It’s not right that you can come in 1st by 10 games. Then Lose two to the WC team and you are out.
Without question. Maybe if this were the NBA it would be fine, but not in MLB. A preposterous idea.
Ghost win would really help fix that.
@deano
Why not? Your record gave you the weakest seed. If you can’t beat the weakest seed, what chances might you really have against an even better team?
Personally, I love that prospect. It creates great drama and hope for that wild card team plus motivation for the following year. Not to mention, that top team may have cruised to the #1 without being tested late in the season due to an easy schedule.
I’d rather read a great Underdog story than an anticipated ending.
I’d rather see excellence prevail, excellence demonstrated by the long grind of a season than some lucky mediocre team prevail in a short series. Reward excellence not chance or luck.
Then why have playoffs then? Just award the World Series to the team with the best record.
Embarrassing
Maybe a deal won’t be completed today. But wouldn’t it be nice if MLB decided that talks have reached a point that the lockout could be ended .while negotiations continued.
Kinda hoping today’s negotiations lead to insufficient progress simply so both sides can embarrassingly try to spin things in their favor.
If both sides wanted to get the season started on time, they could’ve engaged in serious negotiations months ago. But both chose not to, thinking they could apply sufficient leverage to the other party in an effort to end things with time to spare. Idiots.
The fans deserve better than this crap, even if the end result would still be regular season games played at some point. For my part, I will still watch any 2022 regular season games—and I will do so via “secondary” streams no matter how laggy they may be. Neither group will get a cent from me.
I think it’s time to allow tv coverage of these talks. Let the public REALLY know what’s going on so we actually can tell who is taking away our baseball. Make it an open forum like a political debate.
Unlikely we’ll have a deal today, but the vibe and words we get post today’s negotiations will be telling if there’s any chance of a deal in the coming days.
Another fine perspective from the Athletic. This is 100% owner driven.
“The owners did this.
The owners initiated this shutdown. The owners waited 43 days to make a proposal. The owners have refused to budge on the relatively modest requests made by the players for a more equitable piece of the industry’s massive revenue pie. The players are willing to grow the pie by diluting the playoffs and sullying their uniforms with ads. They just want to get paid better. The union isn’t rallying for revolution; they’re asking for a cost-of-living raise.
That’s all. That’s it. And the reason baseball is not happening, the reason camps are closed, is because this legal monopoly — the stewards of the sport who have refused to pay minor-leaguers the minimum wage and contracted affiliates and shrunk the draft these past few years — will not pay the players a bit more.”
Accurate:
Owners imposed the lockout
Owners imposed the transaction freeze
Owners did not negotiate for 43 days after the lockout
Owners insist on reimposing a harder de facto salary cap
Owners self imposed a deadline before games are canceled
Players have played all their cards. This stalemate is on the owners now.
Do everyone a favor cancel the season PLEASE.Baseball is so f—‘d up.
Who cares ! Shut it down indefinitely… both sides are overpaid cry babies. Once you make the dough these guys make it takes a lot of nerve to publicly bicker about this stuff. Let’s not forget this is a GAME. This is not essential to the way of life … once was a season ticket holder , once was a student of the game that really got into the mechanics and strategy of the game , now I just assume watch little league or prep ball. Football , the NFL is on top of the world … MLB is an after thought. I went from being a die hard fan to not caring if I watched, attended or listen to another game in my life. All because of this nonsense. Get lost MLB !!!
Which ends first? The Ukraine war or the MLB lockout?
I’m going with Ukraine.
Negotiators tend to make concessions faster in negotiations where more of their people are being slaughtered with each day of disagreement, compared to when the only thing at stake is money.
Dear owners and players,
Thanks for thinking about us (who ultimately fund you). Not…
Sincerely,
The fans
The owners instituted the lockout and have the power to lift it. They could lift it today, no matter the status of negotiations, and play under the previous agreement’s term for this season. But they have not and said they will not.
The owners haven’t been forthcoming publicly about their negotiations. We only see the players’ side. If the owners were giving ground, we should be hearing all about that. Obviously the owners aren’t giving up much or feel like where they are is very favorable, otherwise we’d hear about it.
The owners don’t pay minor leaguers. They are not interested in paying young MLB players fair market wage. This is obvious since their version of proposed increases has not and will not keep up with inflation.
The owners don’t open their books. If they were not Scrooge McDuck-ing through their piles of gold, we would see voluntarily public books, we would see online presentations about where and how much they are losing money. Even the biggest criers of poverty owners aren’t doing this. Therefore, owners are in a great position.
While neither side has really negotiated much so far in the current labor strife, the players have already given back more than their ask versus where the owners have moved. The owners also took forever starting the negotiations this winter after instituting the lockout (its their move first).
The fans may be without baseball. If they are with baseball, you can bet it will be with raised ticket and concession pricing, courtesy of the owners.
STAY STRONG OWNERS!!!!!! WORKING PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER GET PAID!!!!! EVER!!!! CRUSH THEM LIKE BUGS!!!!!!