4:45pm: If the union rejects all of the league’s proposals regarding the international draft/QO, MLB believes there’s nothing left to discuss today, tweets Rosenthal. Presumably, that’d end negotiations and result in the league announcing further game cancelations.
4:38pm: Under the league’s “reopener” option, the union would have to decide whether to agree to an international draft on November 15, 2022. If they agree, the draft would go into effect in 2024. If they refuse, MLB would have the right to unilaterally reopen the entire CBA after the 2024 campaign (via Drellich).
4:29pm: The league hasn’t presented the MLBPA with a full proposal. It’s instead waiting on the union’s decision regarding the qualifying offer/international draft before discussing other topics, tweets Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post.
4:05pm: Nicholson-Smith and Shi Davidi of Sportsnet report the players are meeting internally to determine their next steps, including whether to put forth the owners’ latest proposal for a formal vote.
3:48pm: Rosenthal tweets that the players find the possibility of allowing the league to unilaterally reopen the CBA if no international draft is in place by 2024 unappealing.
3:20pm: Jesse Rogers of ESPN reports (Twitter thread) that MLB has offered the union some flexibility on the proposed international draft/qualifying offer. That tradeoff remains on the table, but if it’s truly a non-starter for the MLBPA, the league has put some other proposals forward.
According to Rogers, MLB is willing to take both the international draft and the elimination of draft pick compensation for free agents off the table. That’d leave both the existing international signing setup and the qualifying offer system for free agents as they’d been. Alternatively, MLB is willing to immediately eliminate the QO and push the international draft question back a couple seasons. If the MLBPA remains opposed to implementing the draft at some point down the line, the league would have the right to reopen the entire CBA.
The gap has also closed on the minimum salaries. MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes reports (on Twitter) the latest union proposal would have a $710K league minimum in 2022. That’s just $10K north of the league’s proposed $700K figure. The league’s offered minimum would finish at $770K by the end of the CBA, while the union is seeking $780K by 2026. That gap shouldn’t be hard to close.
2:41pm: Evan Drellich of The Athletic tweets that the union’s proposal dropped its bonus pool proposal to $65MM, while their proposed CBT thresholds dropped a good bit further. After previously seeking year-to-year thresholds of $238MM, $244MM, $250MM, $256MM and $263MM, today’s proposal from the union offered thresholds of $232MM in 2022, $235MM in 2023, $240MM in 2024, $245MM in 2025 and $250MM in 2026.
Those new thresholds from the MLPBA represent respective gaps of $2MM, $3MM, $4MM, $5MM and $8MM from the league’s proposed thresholds. Their $65MM bonus pool checks in $25MM north of the league’s proposed $40MM (the equivalent of $833K per team).
2:30pm: Many Latin players consider the potential implementation of an international draft a “nonstarter,” tweets Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. The MLBPA’s counteroffer also still sought additional movement in CBT thresholds and the size of the pre-arbitration bonus pool. SNY’s Andy Martino adds that ownership has become pessimistic after the union yet again rejected the notion of an international draft, which the league has sought to exchange for the elimination of draft compensation (Twitter thread).
Shi Davidi and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet repot (via Twitter) that the league is expected to present the union with its own counter in the near future. A player vote could be conducted following that next MLB counter. Each team’s union rep and the eight members of the MLBPA executive subcommittee would be involved in that vote, which would require a simple majority to pass.
1:24pm: The MLBPA’s contingent has left the league’s offices after presenting a counteroffer, tweets Yahoo’s Hannah Keyser.
2:08am: The Players Association “requested to speak to its board again early tomorrow before coming back with a proposal,” an MLB official told Evan Drellich of The Athletic and other reporters. No games have been canceled yet. “Significant gaps remain between the sides,” a source tells SNY’s Andy Martino.
12:42am: There is hope for a collective bargaining agreement today between MLB and the Players Association. Both sides continued to work in their respective New York City offices as Tuesday bled into Wednesday. On Tuesday, MLB made an offer to the players that moved toward them in several key areas, including the competitive balance tax, the minimum salary, and the size of the new pre-arbitration bonus pool. The MLBPA has tendered a counteroffer, the details of which are unknown at this time.
Aside from the remaining financial gaps, MLB’s offer came with a few sticking points. One is the concept of a new, fourth competitive balance tax tier. In the previous CBA, the levels were named the Base Tax Threshold, First Surcharge Threshold, and Second Surcharge Threshold. The owners would like to add a Third Surcharge Threshold. Using the owners’ latest offer, the 2022 thresholds would be set at $230MM, $250MM, $270MM, and $290MM, with increasing tax rates for each tier. That new Third Surcharge Threshold would always sit $60MM above the Base Tax Threshold.
The owners are also insisting on the institution of an international draft. The last known details on this come from Anthony Castrovince’s article for MLB.com on March 5, but keep in mind that “lead negotiators Bruce Meyer & Dan Halem [are] believed to be discussing that topic actively,” as per an 11:36pm March 8 tweet from Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca. Furthermore, MLB is said to be tying its offer to eliminate free agent draft pick forfeiture to the international draft.
It’s also worth noting that MLB’s last known offer was for a $40MM pre-arbitration bonus pool that did not increase throughout the five-year CBA. The MLBPA’s last known proposal came in at $80MM in 2022 with growth to $100MM in ’26. Nicholson-Smith has noted that “players have indicated a willingness” to move to a $70MM starting point growing to $90MM. That would still mark a sizable gap.
As you can see in my post summing up the latest known positions of each side, the once-cavernous gaps are narrowing with the prospect of a 162-game season hanging in the balance. The new draft lottery concept seems set to include the first six picks, although other details such as penalties for teams finishing near the bottom of the standings in consecutive seasons may yet need to be hashed out. Both sides have been in agreement on the universal designated hitter for a while now. The sides seem to be coming together on reducing the amount of notice MLB needs to make on-field rule changes. And perhaps most importantly, there seems to be consensus that the playoffs will be expanded to 12 teams in a potential new CBA.
On Monday, ESPN’s Jeff Passan wrote that MLB suggested “that if a deal comes down Tuesday, players can be in spring training camps by Friday, and lost games could be made up on off days and with doubleheaders.” Tuesday came and went without an agreement, but USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweeted last night, “The new deadline is now Wednesday afternoon for the two sides to reach an agreement before MLB cancels another week of games.” It’s fair to question the necessity of MLB’s ever-changing deadlines, but it’s clear that today is pivotal as we wait to see if the league’s lockout will end on its 98th day.
Git ‘er dun, boys!
None of this stuff, except expanded playoffs, “makes the game better for the fans.”. I’d love to see that pitch clock and universal DH. These days, I can only watch baseball when I go to the game or during the playoffs. Tired of watching a minute or two of dudes adjusting their cup and gloves before every pitch along with the exaggerated catcher-pitcher sequence just to throw a fastball in the dirt.
I don’t want the universal DH, but I’m resigned to the fact that it’s happening.
A pitch clock is a real turnoff for me, though. I hate the idea. I know the idea is the sport doesn’t move fast enough for some people, but does everything really have to happen in 2 seconds to prevent boredom? Maybe some things just aren’t for those people? I’m not trying to throw stones, but I’m just tired of the argument.
Yeah no offense taken, but we aren’t talking 2 seconds. The pitch clock was 14 and 19 or something to that effect it doesn’t take all that time to throw a pitch or prepare to hit a ball. It just doesn’t.
I hate the universal DH too. I’ll take that over 7 inning doubleheaders and a man on 2nd in extras. The latter was the one of the worst things ever implemented imo.
Simplest solution for this CBA to be accepted by the MLBPA is scrap the idea for the international draft & don’t add the extra layer of penalties for spending.
A pitch clock with no one on base is a definite plus. it favors the runner artificially though and a compromise is just with no one on base. Also, if I’m missing something tell me. I don’t understand why U.S. born players dont make not having an international draft a non-starter. I’ve said it before. Two drafts for high school age and then college age players. Same rules for all players
The Pitchers have always had the rule to pitch the ball in a timely manner…the original rule is 12 seconds…Mlb is giving them a longer time
Let’s not pretend these players aren’t coming up from the minors using pitch clocks. I love the idea, it’s another way of testing a pitcher’s stamina and a battery’s competence. 24 second clock like the NBA shot clock sounds amazing, I think the minors use 30 seconds we can do better than that.
20 seconds in the minors. Game time went up in 2021 with that pitch clock in place.
I get your concern but I think it’s necessary. Now nobody wants this to be like an NBA shot clock where it is constantly on-screen and the crowd is chanting 3,2,1…
The average game time has jumped 20-30 minutes over the last few years for many reasons. The goal really isn’t about the short-attention of people now but to get the game where it was in the 1980s. Of course, there were commercials but baseball games used to always be 1:30-2 for decades – shorter games is more authentic to baseball.. Nobody needs a 3:30 2-1 9 inning game..
I don’t know if you’ve seen it in action but you really don’t notice it. It really is an improvement. Pretty sure the rule-book says 12 seconds or something anyways – anyways, take an open-mind to it.
It’s not two seconds and i can’t stand it. Even as a RS fan, I hated watching Pedroia take 5-10 seconds to adjust his gloves, on every fracking pitch. Adn Buchholz being his own worst enemy by shaking off the catcher 6 times in a row.
Nomar Garciaparra would’ve been forced to changed his routine.
It can get long. I’d love to go to games everyday but being in Vegas I can’t. I guess I could go see the 51’s(I know they’re the las vegas aviators but that name is so stupid. LV 51’s was perfect.
I think if you’re a Red Sox fan you learn to appreciate Nomar’s routine. It’s more annoying if you root for the other team. Hating on the other teams’ players makes it more fun.
I didn’t hate on The Human Rain Delay and I wasn’t a Tribe fan.
Let’s face facts here, pitchers are usually the ones who cause delays. Some pitchers shake off their catcher quite often, many are spending time reading a bunch of notes (byproduct of overusing analytics), and pitchers who are out of shape or just tired often take time for a breather.
I hated Nomar’s routine and I’m a diehard Sox fan. However, I did appreciate the results so I tolerated it as a fan.
Do you remember Mike Hargrove’s routine?
I think the best routine was Sandy Alomar Sr.
Certain players took FOREVER between pitches. Nomar was the worst but Pedie also bad with the glove adjusting . Papi too!
Hating on the other teams’ players makes it more fun.
=================================
Well, I hated Sanchez as well, if that helps. Going to the mound 2-3 times an inning is ridiculous. Same as the pitcher shaking off the catcher.
You pitch once every 5 days. Memorize the starting lineup, develop a plan, and stick with it.
Expanded playoffs ruins the integrity of the game. Teams with sub-.500 records should not make the playoffs.
12 teams is enough period. Teams play for six months to find out which 16 DO NOT make the playoffs? It’s ridiculous.
Shut up integrity of the game what are you in your 60’s gotta be
Makes the playoffs about who is the best team
Not the best outta the 8 best over 162
Teams could get ravished by injuries tread water & then everybody get healthy come September & make a run of it
So tired of all the baseball traditionalist running their mouths
That’s what’s ruining the game
The antiquated baseball fan not being able to adjust to the times
Four teams were beautiful to watch. it upped the tension and ultimately joy when.you moved on. 162 is a marathon and the present system is to change how you played in the regular season or simply who is healthy at the right time.
What times? The game today is played by a computer for the betting person not a baseball fan. The game was beautiful with no gimmicks when compared to other sports. Replays have actually hurt the sport. Allow MLB on NY to rule without challenges within the pitch clock timeframe. Only changes I’d consider are 11 pitchers on the roster to force them not to pitch at maximum velocity and radically speaking allow for regular season ties after 11 or 12 innings.
The issue is tv timeouts. As those have grown, the game has taken longer.
Sure, a few minutes more for the pitching changes etc but nothing like tv timeouts.
Bingo. Eliminate the extended TV timeouts by adopting the “soccer model” and staying with the broadcast and say “this inning brought to you by Snickers bar” and present a logo in the top corner. A pitch clock, however implemented, is a horrible idea. Getting the signs from your catcher is NOT slowing down the game. Batters get their signs while walking to the plate and pitchers be ready to chuck. Simple common sense should prevail although discernable penalties “may” be enforced by the Ump.
Actually, there are studies that show over 80% of the increase in game time since the 1980’s is due to the time between pitches. TV Timeouts are not the main culprit.
vtn – Yes and no.
TV timeouts is not as much of an issue ever since the timer for pitching changes was implemented years ago.
But still, MLB once again is totally hypocritical by allowing an additional 20 seconds for nationally televised TV timeouts and an additional 50 seconds for postseason TV timeouts..
So speeding up games is important only when national TV revenue is not involved, pathetic.
@tiger That is factually incorrect. The increase in game time has been shown to be from the number of pitches thrown. The time between pitches has not changed much since the 1980’s and has actually gone down the last 5 seasons while the number of pitches has increased.
In 1982 an average game had 220 pitches thrown by the 2 teams combined. Today its 290. At an average of 20 seconds per pitch that is 23 minute longer games.
The other component in longer games is pitching changes. There were 734 complete games in 1982. In 2021 it was 50. Add in the additional pitching changes MLB has now and you are where we are today in game length.
That is all attributable to players getting paid for excelling at the 3 true outcomes. More strike outs and walks means more pitches thrown and that equals more pitchers used and a longer game time.
In 1982 the average game length was 2:40. In 2021 it was 3:10.
Not sure what the solution is. I just know that time between pitches will do little to change it.
Pads Fans3 hours ago
At an average of 20 seconds per pitch that is 23 minute longer games.
In 1982 the average game length was 2:40. In 2021 it was 3:10.
=============================================
1-That is still a differential of 7 extra minutes (30-23) and still worth pursuing.
2-Part of the issue with the time between pitches is that it is just wasted time. If the game extends 23 minutes because of more walks and strikeouts, at least it’s action. Watching someone adjust his batting gloves for 7 minutes a game is just annoying.
3-Good use of stats.
TV commercials between pitching changes add a lot of time. Reduce the number of pitchers allowed by each team.
Why does everyone always focus on only a pitch count? What about getting hitters to stay in the box? They step outp, walk around, adjust their junk, undo and redo their batting gloves, order a pizza, etc. That all adds time too.
@rememberthecoop
To be clear: When I say “pitch clock” I meant for both parties. That’s why I mentioned adjusting the cup and gloves. These Clowns need to play ball.
All these “purists” are the same ones who hated on removing big hits from football, implementing a shot clock for basketball, 3 point shots etc. They are usually behind the times and will always cry about “the way things used to be”
@Casor_Greener
The problem is that MLB wants more offense but that means longer games. A lot of the shorter games are due to two good pitchers but then people complain that there is no offense and it’s boring.
The problem isn’t the time of the game. The problem is with analytics that has turned players from being able to make adjustments to robots that have 3-true outcomes. I don’t want to see 3/4 of the team going up there swinging for the fences only to strike out 10 – 15 times as a team. It’s sad to hear Gallo complain that the shift is taking away his hits. Buddy, you’re being paid a lot of money to be a professional hitter. You need to make adjustments. Learn to hit to the other side or bunt for a hit more often.
Here’s a counteroffer, millions of Americans want to contribute to Ukraine, I don’t see any one who wants to contribute to MLB
I don’t think MLB wants more offense; I think MLB wants the anticipation of offense.
When there are more strikeouts than singles, there is a problem.
Thank you Old York. Sometimes it seems as if I’m the only one who feels this way. Three tue outcomes is so boring. I’d rather watch Juan Pierre in the box than Gallo
@oldyork. Agree 100%. But the problem isnt long games. Its nothing happening long games. If there’s action everybody likes it.
I enjoy a 1-0 pitcher’s duel but a fan like my mother prefers a 6-7 game with lots of drama. Most fans are like my mother that’s just facts
With two strikes and no balls you will see a psyche out between the pitcher and hitter and a wasted pitch. Most likely in the dirt every time…
@Win Cor
That’s part of the strategy of the game. In the 1800s, the pitcher was required to ask the batter where the pitch should be. Should we really return to those days? Then all the batters will be able to hit?
Expanding the playoffs is like expanding the money supply. The regular season becomes less significant.
The only way the players will win if they succeed in removing MLB antitrust exemption Anything else is a loss.
Expanded playoffs doesn’t make the game any better for intelligent fans. The same people that insist every team needs to spend more money to compete are the same people that want more teams in the playoffs? Like how’s that make any sense.
This is getting ridiculous. MLBPA needs to take the deal and play!
This is getting ridiculous, the owners need to make a deal and let the players play!!
Here is the deal they should make. 1 million bucks a year to any minor leaguer to be a replacement player. All teams have a 27 million dollar salary cap/floor, and the minor leaguers get a huge raise, even if it’s only for a year. Time to stop playing games with the union. Without MLB the owners are mostly still billionaires via whatever made them rich to begin with. Without MLB the players are mostly just some athletic dudes without college degrees. Drop the bomb on em.
Better yet keep this pay structure permanently with performance bonuses with a max salary of 4 million from on the field performance and then split proceeds from thirty sales and such.
The ‘players’ are insisting on more cuts and refinements it seems….
Yes! We want baseball.
Hope they cancel the season and lose a big portion of their fan base. This is on the players now. Selfish, greedy mf’ers represented by one of the biggest idiots I’ve ever seen
Nope, totally about the owners greed, not the players. Who locked whom out? Who did not even bother to negotiate for 43 days after implementing the lock out? Who has not negotiated in good faith? THE OWNERS!!
“Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.”
I just want to say to both sides good luck, we’re all counting on you.
I said good luck to my abacus because I’m counting on it…..
Well done
Abacus… that’s the green veggie that makes my pee stink, right?
I thought that was spinach, Popeye could kick Brutus’s ass & win over Oliver Oyl
Better for blood sugar
You’re thinking of aspinachagus.
Let’s get it done! I just lost my QB I need baseball!
I assure you, the Mariners will not give you what you are seeking.
He never said he was seeking an extension to the longest playoff drought in the league
Don’t worry. The Seahawks just got a boatload of draft picks and players for Wilson. They will win more games than the Broncos the next 5 years.
With Drew Lock at QB…I’ll take that bet.
Who is the Broncos’ QB for 2023 and on?
Haha, No!
Lol….based on their last few drafts they sure won’t. Give them double what they got for Russ and they’ll still mess it up.
Maybe this is the modern Herschel Walker trade…
sorry for your loss buddy, that’s a tough pill to swallow. would you by any chance like Minshew?
How many times has mlb pushed their “deadline”
To play 162 games back now? This whole thing is to the point of comical. It’s time to get it done and play some baseball
Working well into the night… next the deadline gets pushed to 5pm tomorrow… haven’t we heard this one before? What happens next? I forgot…
Seems like it’s MLB who is making concessions while the players continue to look at the small picture over things like the pre arbitration bonus pool. The league minimum is being raised over 100k a year, I feel like the players have won
MLB needed to start making some concessions. They will have to make even more to get a deal done.
More likely the other way around…as we are seeing
TCS: I see your point, but the biggest issue is still the CBT. For the owners, expanded playoffs. Everything else, as Halo11 often writes, is just noise. These are the two main issues for each side because both tie directly & proportionally to increased revenue & profit, both now & in the future.
The pre arbitration bonus pool is not a small thing. The league’s 40m dollar offer isn’t really enough. I know there is debate as to what a WAR is worth, but if you conseratively value it at 5m per win, the offer covers 8 WAR. That’s not a ton of compensation for a lot of value.
Plus they’re adding back in more things to their cap. They keep changing and adding. There’s simply no reason to keep attacking the CBT except that it fulfills certain personal iniquities among owners. It’s a completely pointless and feeble attempt at a cap. But, whatever.
Some owners don’t want the CBT level moved at all. For MLB to get the teams to agree to move the level up, the owners will have to negotiate among themselves to get enough on board to agree to the change. Its not going to move “with no strings attached.” They won’t get enough owners on board with that.
Yeah but we’re not talking about paying for the “market level” of WAR here – even FAs except the top ones rarely get that comp level.
I’m definitely on the players side here and happy they’ve gotten significant gains for the lowest paid – the minimum from $570 K to $700, though most minimum guys got a bit more than the min. That said, there were about 400 prearb players in the league last year. Diving that into $40 million gives each of them another $100,000 K. That isn’t how it will be shared of course, so those that get the bonuses will likely see double or more that. The nearly twice that being asked by the PA seems to be a position they could reasonably come off, though some increase to that pool each year might be what they’re really pressing for.
The corollary benefit here is to the low paid FA group. It now becomes much more cost comparable to sign a useful vet for the bench, pen depth, or to flip at the deadline to a $1 million-ish deal. And that players entering Arb will have a higher floor going in.
THIS PLATYPUS NEEDS SOME BASEBALL GET IT DONE BOYS
Perry, shouldn’t you be in Anaheim right now?
Spin the wheel, make a deal!
Where’s Tina Turner when you need her?
I love the game too much not to watch, but will be spending most of my money this year at Independent ball games. Just tough to get past all the greed from every angle in the game anymore. Not to mention the constant changes to the game.
To me, the tradition of what some people are calling “long and boring” baseball games is that it allows people to interact while listening to the radio or tv; or of course, a long, pleasant – relaxing-afternoon or evening at the ballpark. Not getting all amped up or only having superficial interaction with whomever I am with….you know, baseball allows true quality time vs a distraction. I am disappointed they want to speed up the game for TV.
Yep. Plus, despite all of the down time, there’s still something about a home run – especially a walkoff.
People who want to be glued to the TV with not stop action don’t understand baseball.
Baseball is about those really weird things that happen sometimes…..like life.
Yeah, it’s awful that the people WHO OWN the teams, DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE GAME.
I wish more folks like you would post. Too many people in here running around and screaming like banshees.
1-I love BB too much to ever imagine giving it up.
2-If I miss two weeks of BB, there are plenty of jobs to get caught up with.
3-Assuming it is only two weeks, then come September, most fans won’t even remember why we only had a 154-game season.
If it’s possible I encourage all of you to support a local independent baseball team. It’s a great time . Family friendly , inexpensive and the players actually play for the love of the game. That’s all I saw last yr was my local independent team and I’m buying season tickets this yr.
How am I supposed to stay on top of my internet beefs when MLBTR posts a new article so soon?!?!
Right? Then you get those that cheap shot our past article comments with late responses…. Not cool.
2:18 am here on the East Coast. Hoping to wake up and hear some good news. Been a long few months
I wonder how many time recently the question has been asked, “You really think these guys are serious about holding out?” Ugh, just get it done guys. Daddy’s proud of you for sharing a bit more, now bring it home, finish it up, and go out on your yachts for a celebration on your next hundred-million-plus TV playoff deal.
I desperately need to know if Hal’s ownership will continue to disappoint me once FA kicks back in again…
Don’t fret Clipper. Hal and Co. will be disappointing us for years to come.
I’m with you both on this…
I generally dislike his trades and I despise big contracts but the guy fields a winning team every single year.
I think the expanded playoffs are going to be a nice story for a lot of MLB fan bases.
But.
As Yankee fans? Not so much. As long as Hal gets to collect his yearly playoff skim, he will be content to dick around with the CBT & never really rip the throttle wide open. Ya know?
& *seven* teams? What’s that? 85 wins or so? With a $200+ mil payroll, I think most of us could accomplish that.
Ducky — “I think the expanded playoffs are going to be a nice story for a lot of MLB fan bases.” NOT. Watering down a 162-game season is a pathetic move designed to bring mediocrity to the World Series. (And put more $$$ in the Owners pockets.)
Well, we will all hate it. But this is a pretty hardcore group of baseball guys.
I think the average/bandwagon fans will appreciate it. I should have made that clearer.
Ducky — I think you’re right.
What has been made abundantly clear by *both* sides is that we are the type of fan MLB cares the *least* about.
& they are right in my case. As soon as the Ump yells “play ball” during the first Yanks Spring Training game, I will completely forget how much they have pissed me off. I guarantee it, man.
at 14, a lot of mediocre teams will be competing in September when they otherwise would start to cash it in. Is that a good thing? Some think so. But there’s a flipside… the good teams will compete less in September because they’re not as worried about missing playoffs. So they start resting players and settle for .500-.550 seasons knowing that’s plenty enough to get into playoffs. In the NBA, the Lakers/Nets, and now even the Warriors are dropping games they’d otherwise compete to win because they’re gearing up for the playoffs. The regular season is fairly meaningless. Whereas teams like the Pelicans and Sacramento Kings are competing because they have a chance to get in even though they’re below .500. I guess this is exciting for Sacramento and New Orleans, not so much for fans who want meaningful and competitive regular season matchups among the best teams.
CUNCEL DA SEASON!!! Correa will be an Angel by 7:53 AM PST on Friday if they get it done tonight
INCORRECT. CORREA WILL SIGN WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE DESERT DOGS.
Get a new schtick
fight! fight! fight! fight!
I hope Arte signs Correa because, by all available information, Correa would bring home more than Arte every year {This is untrue imo}. It would be funny to see that justification though.
angels stay away from cheaters!
But wait, Manfred said that the canceled games would never be made up if they didn’t have a deal by February 28th. Do you mean he lied again? Tell me it isn’t so!!!
Come on !! I need something good ! I lost my franchise QB and franchise mlb today !!! THE SEAHAWKS MUST FALL FOR THE MARINERS TO RISE.
LET ME BELIEVE THAT !!!
Did you check under the couch?
Wish Wilson had ended up with Big Blue. But – hey – we still have Jones.
I miss Eli.
Yeah, that would’ve been an obvious and natural fit. What happened, dude? They walked off a cliff….
Man, The days of Eli –
I am not overly excited about the direction both the Yanks & G-Men are currently headed.
Well, at least you don’t have to look to far to find either – they’re parallel, maybe even holding hands. Possibly same playbook? Wouldn’t be surprised to see Cole QB or Jones throw a few innings this year.
See – now you’re just trying to bring a little rain into my sunshine, Clip. As I am packing up the truck for some goose hunting & the dog’s tail is wagging so hard he might just fly, your efforts is doomed to fail.
“Trubisky open to playing for Giants.”
My previous gf was a Bears fan. So I have seen him play a bunch of times. Pretty good QB. You can win with him.
Furthermore: CBT levels bound to increase significantly. Cash’ll have some ducats. I am wary about the new WC spots creating less urgency than you & I would prefer. But: we’ll see, uh?
Good hunting, bro.
Where did you see it last? Check there… or in the couch cushions.
Say no to the international draft.
Goodnight.
The only way I’d be on board with an international draft is if international players were just added to the regular draft.
Think tanking is bad now, just add another draft so teams can get multiple early picks.
Apparently, the draft order is not based on winning record. They divide teams into groups of six and rotate the order.
Here is the proposal
mlb.com/news/international-draft-cba-negotiations
Thanks. I still prefer just adding to the regular draft but this is much better than a record based draft. Except for the competitive balance picks that is. How much charity does the mid market teams need?
Exactly, trying to cap the top and add more draft pick advantages would’ve essentially taken large-market teams completely out of the fight, while living & thriving off their revenue, It would’ve been a severe handicap that’s nearly impossible to overcome, which is the goal of mid-markets
Time for those teams to have as much (or as little) influence as their money can buy…
Get it done so Freeman can spurn the Braves for their stupidity and can sign with the Dodgers. He and the family will be so much more happier closer to his Dad and other family members. Imagine how much better he will play knowing everything is good.
What kind of a Braves fan are you? According to financials the Braves took home $20 million in 2021 after expenses and that’s with all the extra postseason money. Probably why they have played hardball with Freddie. I still believe Freddie will resign with Atlanta.
FredMcGriff for the HOF — Fred, I may be wrong, but I think Atlanta’s problem with Freddie’s ask is less about money than it is about years. Obviously Freddie thinks he can still be productive in the later years of a 6-year deal (ages 37 & 38), but I can see the Braves’ point. I still think he stays with Atlanta. I definitely don’t want to see him on the Dodgers.
Freeman should re-sign with the Braves. Doubt they would low-ball him by crying poor-mouth. True, any number of teams would want him, but does he want to uproot his family and play in another city for an extra few bucks? Doubtful.
If they work out a deal (and I thought they would when MLB got to the point that the backed off their position/deadline that it was past time to get in a 162-game season), it’ll be good for the players.
Regardless of your position on labor v. capital/mgt or players v. owners, it’s good for baseball that the players won some things. The 2 previous CBA’s were victories for the owners. If one side keeps winning in a negotiation, the other side eventually does one of two things: become powerless or dig in their heels. When one side or the other “digs in its heels,” that’s when you get cancelled games, shortened seasons, lost post-seasons, etc.
The players dug in their heels and, assuming they won enough to agree to a deal in the next several hours, BASEBALL will have survived with relatively minimal damage. I think we’ll look back on this dispute as something that was inevitable: the players signed on to the last few CBAs with little updating of key features, they were clearly spoiling for a fight (with the delayed start of 2020 being a preview).
Wherever your sentiments are, it’s good that the players got enough of a reset that lovers of the game are good for five years and probably for the next CBA after that.
Simply add one sentence to the cba both sides will have no problem with: you can now trade draft picks. Small in nature for the talks sure, but something fans totally want
I endorse this sentence. Why wouldn’t small markets want that too. It would be a huge advantage for them during trades.
I’m a fan. I don’t want it.
minimum salary is about $500,000 too high.
Go throw a 99mph fastball with movement, then I’ll give your comment a like. In the meantime I’ll just sit over here and laugh. If you can’t do it, don’t be jealous guys that can get paid.
MLBPA … no more proposals. Come to your senses, no more rhetoric, accept the deal, and stop holding the fans hostage. It’s time to play baseball.
You misspelled MLB…. You know, the ones that have everyone locked out…..
…until a deal with the MLBPA is done. The owners have to have agreement before sending a proposal to the union. The union has yet to put any proposal to a vote. For this to end, the union has to send it to the membership for a vote. Until they do that, its on the union.
MLBPA, MLB, Commissioner – families are being torn apart, women and children are fleeing from their country, men are staying behind to fight for their country and lives.
MLBPA, MLB, Commissioner – GREED, The Almighty Dollar, not negotiating “in good faith” – you are only alienating the FANS.
PLAY BASEBALL NOW!!!
Hopefully Boras is happy and the players get the green light to accept.
Blows my mind that Scott Boras has a net worth higher than the total amount of Mike Trout’s current contract. Trout’s contract is worth $426M over 12-years. Boras has a net worth of $450M. Trout’s net worth is $60M. Crazy to think about.
You think that’s crazy – people with that kind of money invest most of it. Those guys could/should easily have way…WAY more “net worth” than that by now. Think billionaires.
This has to get done today. If not, it will be a crying shame.
You are correct beyou02215. For the most part I’ve taken the players side on this labor deal, but if they don’t sign off after concessions made by the owners it’s on them. The owners/management is always, I mean, always going to get over on labor. The players have won great gains. More than any other CBA in the last 25 years. Take the small victory and play ball!
That is my exact feeling. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
If they have a DH in both leagues, why not do a major realignment. Or do away with AL and NL altogether.
Oh Please. What possible reason would there be to do away with the two leagues. Let’s just hope they get this done so we can see some baseball.
I feel like this is the movie groundhogs day and the MLB and MLBPA are collectively Bill Murray and we are just Punxsutawney Phil getting suicided by them in a red pickup…
I’m so glad I turned down that skiing trip invite with Sonny Bono
I, for one, am glad to hear you’re recovering from your plane crash Sum Ting!
If the 162-game schedule is back in play, then they gotta settle real soon so there is ample time for spring training. JMHO, but I don’t three weeks is enough. Gonna see a lot of injuries to pitchers in general, and a lot of short outings by starting pitchers.
A MLB trainer once told me, “The only way to get in shape to play baseball is to play baseball.”. Squeezing seven weeks of spring training into three weeks is a recipe for disaster.
As an aside, I like the idea of teams being able to trade draft picks. The other three major sports do it, right? So what’s the argument for MLB not doing likewise? Also I like international players being subject to a draft. Signing some fifteen-year-old kid to a mega bucks contract at such a young age as if he’s a top of the line MLB ready FA is absurd.
Is it me, or does it seem that the players barely budge? The players have won this quite handily. Never was a pool to pay younger players… now 40 million , penalty level up to 228 million from 210, elimination of free agent compensation for signing free agents, $150,000 per year increased min salary , and players that make playoffs get huge bonuses based on gate as well so let’s not make that just an owner thing… seems like players made out like bandits… sign the damn deal already!! As far as international draft, it’s funny how important that is to the players but minor league salaries are not… and don’t say minor leaguers are not union members, because neither are amateur international players.
Here here!
Make that “Hear! Hear!”
Need that morning cup of coffee.
i can assure you it’s just you
What the players HAVEN’T achieved:
(1) Any significant change in “service time” manipulation; in fact, no change at all.
(2) Anything but a pathetic increase in the minimum salary
(3) Any discussion of players participating in new gaming or streaming revenues
(4) The elimination of the Tax, which is effectively a Salary Cap
(5) No increase in either the 26-man or 40-man
(6) No promise of expansion
Many other things. I think any agreement is being held up by the small market teams who (a) don’t make any money on Spring Training (unlike the big boys) and (b) don’t own RSNs, so they don’t suffer much by missing April games.
We’ll have baseball at some point. And at the end of the day, the owners have increased their profit potential, while the MLBPA accepted some scraps’ (universal DH, like who cares?) Meanwhile, MLB will have the right to change whatever rules they want (a HUGE give-back) thus influencing the very basis on the way players are compensated; in other words, changing working conditions whenever they want.
The MLBPA walks away from this drama with either nothing, or actually less than nothing.
Bob, in place of service time there is a 40 million dollar pool to be split amongst ineligible arbitration players… solved…pathetic increase? From $500,000+ to $700,000 is pathetic ? You must be rich or crazy?… solved…participation in new revenues? Never was discussed as an issue and that’s what there more ever increasing salaries come from… solved…yes it’s kind of a cap, but it’s an issue that players have agreed to for awhile just want increased thresholds which they received… solved…increase in roster? Never discussed but nl getting dh is like an additional highly paid player per team… solved… expansion never discussed but aren’t the leagues talent diluted enough already? Solved
1. Bonus Pool? 1.3M per club; they pay more taking each other to dinner
2. Minimum Increase? In comparison to revenue growth, ridiculous. Less than the increase in McDonald’s minimum wages, and revenues from McD’s haven’t increased like MLB’s has.
3. Participation in new revenues? Never Discussed? EXACTLY
4. Expansion Never Discussed? EXACTLY
5. Increased Roster Size? Never Discussed? EXACTLY
And BTW, “talent dilution” really doesn’t exist in any universe where the earth revolves around the sun. Wasn’t talent diluted when blacks weren’t allowed to participate? So why do we glorify Babe Ruth? Baseball numbers are merely comparisons, not real absolute values.
The players are getting nothing. And they’ll cave again at some point, when the management friendly Tony Clarke tells them to.
Bob, you are so wrong in every way… and McDonald’s comparison? Yes that’s fair comparing $15 an hr workers who bust their ass to baseball PLAYERS whose minimum salary for 8 months play will be $700,000…
bobtillman
12 mins ago
1. Bonus Pool? 1.3M per club; they pay more taking each other to dinner
2. Minimum Increase? In comparison to revenue growth, ridiculous. Less than the increase in McDonald’s minimum wages, and revenues from McD’s haven’t increased like MLB’s has.
3. Participation in new revenues? Never Discussed? EXACTLY
4. Expansion Never Discussed? EXACTLY
5. Increased Roster Size? Never Discussed? EXACTLY
===========================================
Oddly enough, my employer never discusses these things with me either.
You said it perfectly
That’s because you can’t hit a ball with a stick.
Bull, Tillman.
If MLBPA doesn’t agree to this deal it’s time for owners to re-access their teams and rosters. And once a new CBA is reached carefully evaluate whether or not a free agent ($$$ and contract) really helps your team, carefully evaluate whether trading for a player(s) really helps, carefully evaluate whether or not an aging mid-tier player(s) helps, or giving younger plyan opportunity. And carefully evaluate whether or not it’s time to Non-Tender players.
What fans often miss is that a contract doesn’t have to be good for the team winning, as long as it’s good for making money. Sometimes marketing and merchandising make it profitable without winning.
At any rate, obviously competent GMs should’ve been carefully considering such things all along.
Maybe try meeting for more than twenty minutes? I’m no labour negotiating expert, but I do understand time, compromise, & effort.
Theres lots of sports. I choose baseball until I dont. If I cant rely on the product I simply choose from 100s of other leagues that need more fans. If these myopic, navel gazing, entitled and ungrateful egoist cant get it done, they no longer exist for me
Preach it . You nailed it %100
Momma’ says negotiations between two wealthy groups are ornery because they have all that money and not enough banks to put it in.
Can we get to playin’ the booseball?
Lock outs suck. They really, really suck. Lock outs suck!!!!!!
Always supported players but if they pass on this offer they have lost their way. International draft is a good thing and fair to north American players who are subject to draft. $40 million is plenty for the arb pool and the players get the increased CBT and minimum salary with increases each year. Rejection of this deal, which I am sure will happen means the players will lose the good will and merely be viewed as set on ruining the season
Good morning east coast, MLBTR folks. West coasters hopefully are still resting.
After a review of all positions, I sadly must reject MLB’s latest offer. The introduction of a 4th CBT threshold is a further hardening of MLB’s version of a salary cap. Including the new player pool money in CBT calculations is a significant problem. The international draft is a non-starter. Reintroducing it at this late stage while tying it to eliminating free agent compensation that MLB already agreed to drop is a bad faith move.
Many, many problems. Sorry, no baseball for you!
Fortunately, my vote has no meaning.
Yeah, they just won’t get away from the cap idea. Let it go already!!!!! It was only ever supposed to curb spending, never was it to be a cap.
I will say that I still believe we’ll have a deal today. Both sides are motivated to get this done. While I do have issues with the hardening of the “cap” and the reasonings behind the international draft, many of the proposals are likely designed to get the other side to negotiate on other issues, so some of these things will likely be amended in the final deal.
I’ll grumble at items I don’t like, but then I’ll quickly move on to looking forward to lots of trades, free agent signings and…baseball!
Introducing complex new issues like the international draft and 4th CBT level at the last minute really isn’t a winning strategy to get things done quickly. It feels like the owners just hoping the players will rush and let them sneak something in by not looking too closely, and that isn’t going to happen.
Frankly I don’t see that new threshold as a huge deal.
Its only been surpassed by 1 club in the last 12 years – The Dodgers – 5 times, ’21 & 4 from ’13-’16. Yanks got close in ’15 and ’16, and likely topped it multiple years back in the ’00s. I’m a Yanks fan but could live with it.
Jeff Passan is a hack.
Paid by the players?
Guardians and Orioles ownership are going to be blowing up eBay with that Steve Cohen competitive balance tax money.
Wow! MLB Network is really pushing hard the idea that a deal gets completed today.
I don’t think a deal is made today.
Yeah, I just watched their 1/2 hour update. Remember, they are owned by MLB and they always take the side of ownership. They did the same last week, which is why so many fans were surprised when the deal fell apart. I listen more to the chatter from the players’ side. That said, while Verducci clearly was leaning toward ownership messaging, I do respect him enough that I’ll put more weight in his belief that a deal will get done today than other MLBN “reporters.” Jon Morosi pretty much removed his testicles and prostate on live TV this morning taking all the owners’ positions. Clearly the firing of Ken Rosenthal by Rob Manfred for being a reporter has left its mark on the survivors there.
You could be right though. A deal might not get done today.
When it’s said, “The Players Association requests to speak to its Board,” what it means is they want to consult with Boras when he wakes up this morning.
I can’t wait to comment about actual baseball.
Amen!
Lol this is never going to happen “significant gaps remain”
The sides are close enough now that if MLB had any sense they’d end the lockout now and continue negotiations during play. The players aren’t going to strike in September and cancel the world series over a gap of this size (it’s questionable whether they’d have gone on strike even when the sides were much further apart). And it’s clear MLB’s attempts to force the MLBPA to give up with their dozens of pretend deadlines aren’t helping. Taking away the deadlines and ending the lockout might even get the deal done quicker because it’d be a show of good faith for once.
Take away the incentive to get a deal done before the deal gets done, and it won’t get done.
All the posturing and lying about deadlines isn’t getting a deal done. If a show of good faith that saves MLB from losing a ton of revenue and fans doesn’t help, you can always reimpose a lockout in May.
Continuing the lockout is going to make a deal much harder to reach, because expanded playoffs will be off the table and service time for the shortened season will be a new contentious issue. And as the pie shrinks, the arguments about who gets which piece of it can only get harder to resolve.
If they want an international draft buy them a Heineken
maybe we will find out this week if the MLBPA really want to play or not… Would the owners please make their last final offer and then just say that is it , nothing more to negotiate.
this is a good offer for younger players… The stars are not hurting and only four or five teams are gonna spend 300 mill on a so so player like Correa who has been injured most of his career just because of his defense…
Owners: Please just say ‘No deal! See you next year’. Thanks.
🙁 ) Yawning emoji
MLBPA are idiots. This is ridiculous. Offer was good enough, just always want to have last word. Oh well 2 more weeks of this crap.
MLB will accept and baseball will begin. The End
Looks like no deal. You know that MLB is not going to accept the counter as is. There was all this momentum to a deal, and the MLPA pulls this? I doubt baseball is back by June and if that’s the case, no interest. They can have their little truncated season without me.
That would be the MLBPA
Manfred is evil!
I’ve been on the side of the players on most issues. But an agreement being held up because they won’t accept an international draft really burns me. Now they’re fighting for a group of people that are not in the union?
There’s no way the egos of the owners will accept this, especially if mlbpa delivered and then bounced.
No baseball it is.
Heyman is saying significant gaps exist.
There will be no compromise. Feels like the owners are trying more than the players.
Tony Clark is a joke.
I think the Owners and the Players are killing the chance of this season happening!!! Both want all or nothing! This is RIDICULOUS!!! Once one side gives something the other side comes back and wants more. Each side should not try to get everything through one agreement. Get several issues decided and come back next time to more the agreement forward.
They’ll break once April pay checks are cancelled. Keep lopping off games.
The Players seem to be giving up a lot more ground this round. They really want to get a deal done.
Please tell me that was sarcasm.
Why do owners want to penalize some owners for going over CBT trying to win the world series. ?. 3 different levels for what, only 2 or 4 teams excel at the CBT level then get back under. 2021 Padres, Yankees, and Dodgers exceded the CBT. Why was so must time that only affect so few teams?
Larry. It’s called a COMPETATIVE balance tax.
Why don’t the owners want to slow down the three to five big market teams from adding all the coveted free agents? Gosh…. let me think.
Oh wait, no thinking is necessary.
The 5 or 6 teams that spend will be competitive with themselves. Telling Cohen he can spend $250M instead of $300M is not going to make him competitive with teams spending $30M-$60M.
There are different levels of competition within the 30 teams but not all 30 teams will be competitive from a salary structure….ever!
Lefty, Look at the four teams that voted no.
There are a number of teams that want to compete for free agents and are not the huge market teams. They need a mechanism where they can compete with these super teams for the same free agent.
This isn’t about the teams that won’t spend, it’s about the teams that want to.
This is wrong. Halos ended up with Rendon. Dodgers wanted get it Cole but we’re outbid buy Yankees, so Dodgers had a point they wouldn’t go over. Other teams not names the Mets or Yankees or Dodgers can still bid on superstars and get them. Halos kept Trout with largest contract in the game.
These owners you speak of want to limit how much they have to spend so as to keep themselves more profitable. But that’s on them! Don’t want to spend? Then don’t. But don’t cry like you don’t have the money. You just don’t want to spend past a certain point because it cuts more into profits..
All Teams should have the right to try to become the best they can be. We should never want a system where a team has a need for a 2nd starter and an impact bat, and can afford to spend for it, and it’s available. But the salary cap says no. So sit there all year with your problems and wait till you can ride out some contracts and then be able to spend.
That’s what all the other sports have become, and at least till now baseball has resisted that. I don’t see how fans could support that model.
The Angels wouldn’t have gotten Rendon had the Dodgers not been so up against the cap.
The Angels preferred Cole, but the Yankees simply had deeper pockets.
IT WORKED PERFECTLY.
It didn’t prevent the Yankees from getting Cole, but it slowed down the Dodgers enough so the Angels could get Rendon.
That’s EXACTLY what it’s supposed to do.
I think you are guessing what happened to fit your agenda.
Cole wanted to be a Yankee, and Rendon wanted no part of LA.
Dodgers pivoted to Betts trade and then signed him to huge deal. Then last year went way over the CAP.
So if it Dodgers didn’t spend on Rendon because of being up against the CAP? Why did they trade for Betts and blow past the CAP in 2021? And why the need for changes, if it’s working so well?
OK, what I described is EXACLTY how it’s supposed to work.
It’s supposed to slow down these mega teams without stopping these mega teams from getting a player it really wants.
The Yankees really wanted Cole. The Dodgers wanted Rendon, but not so badly they would bust the threshold for him. The Angels wanted Rendon, and were able to outbid the Dodgers. Since the Dodgers have so much more money than the Angels. One can only guess why they stopped bidding.
Many Latin players consider the potential implementation of an international draft a “nonstarter,”
So foreign born players have more rights than American born players for American Jobs. This is the first thing that has really pissed me off.
Fall on your swords for that Players Union. Try to sell that to baseball fans.
This comes across as savagely racist. Baseball jobs are American jobs? As in supposed to go to Americanss first? It’s the top league in the world, and all the best players in the world play here. To think that all the best players are Americans is incorrect. Probably not how you intended it to land. But, yikes.
Oh… I’m racist. Thanks for playing.
Try telling fans that the Players Union is shutting down baseball so that foreign born players can have more rights than American born players.
They are American Jobs, They are played in the United States by predominately owned American Business.
If you think playing the race card is going to work, you’re crazy I know people who have no answer to real questions LOVE playing the race card.
I never said you were racist. I said it came across that way and you probably didn’t intend for that. No race card there. And the union is not “Shutting down” baseball to give foreign players more rights. That statement is just false. You seem like like a blast to be around. Take care.
I apologize. I hate the race card. The Players Union can’t sell this. It’s about fairness. It’s about fairness and they can’t sell it.
American born players cannot be amateur free agents and sell their skills to the highest bidder, however foreign players can.
On what planet is that not more rights?
Fair enough. I apologize too. Certainly not my place to presume and sorry if it came off that way at first glance. It may well be more rights – though the proposal is for lower hard slot values than the amateur draft, so you could also ask why international amateurs are worth less than domestic amateurs. I don’t think it’s right for international players to have more rights than domestic, or vice versa. But the union didn’t shut anything down, they are literally locked out. The owners shut it down. And the owners brought this in as a demand in the eleventh hour. Really, at 11:59. Seems like both sides need to stop trying to introduce new issues to the negotiations. I want baseball back too. I just think it’s a lot more complex than ‘the union is shutting down baseball for international players’.
“If the MLBPA remains opposed to implementing the draft at some point down the line, the league would have the right to reopen the entire CBA.”
The players are against this.
There is no way the players can sell this that’s why they are against this. If the owners reopen the CBA it will become obvious what the players are doing.
No one will support it.
It seems completely illogical to let an international draft be a dealbreaker for the MLBPA. Both sides appear much closer on the CBT and bonus pool – close enough to reach a deal soon on those issues.
Hello Tim,
There’s a spelling error. Can you fix the spelling error of the word ‘repot, I guess it should be ‘report’ not ‘repot’?
“Shi Davidi and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet ‘repot'”
Hello Tim,
Not sure if you saw my question, but nevertheless. My question is down below. Please read down below.
There’s a spelling error. Can you fix the spelling error of the word ‘repot, I guess it should be ‘report’ not ‘repot’?
“Shi Davidi and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet ‘repot’”
I really didn’t think the players were this dumb. What do they think they’ll have to go back to when this finally gets resolved — interest in the sport is so weak right now that with all of this major baseball news going on, Deion Sanders’ amputated toes are a bigger headline than anything MLB related.
This is becoming the Price is Right now, bring in Drew Carey as the mediator. I get meeting in the middle, but serious how much more are they going to keep shaving off a few bucks on either end? What’s a $2 million CBT gap going to impact the average player’s salary now, like 0.01% vs. 0.02%?
Players are trying to undo mistakes they made during the previous CBA. Owners are likely dealing with increasing factions within their ranks, a group already content with missing games. That’s a bad combination.
Why shouldn’t international players be subject to a draft just like domestic players are?
Be careful Alexander, talk like that will label you a racist.
I’m all about being fair. These are primarily American owned businesses. It’s absurd to think foreign born players have more rights than American born players.
The Players Union can’t sell this.
LOL! Labels…Money takes care of labels. It’s like the border crisis?!? Baseball Dreamers Act! right now it’s borderline ‘not clear’ how international players get in the league to begin with.
American Players cannot sell their skills to the highest bidder, but foreign-born players can.
It’s a matter of fairness.
They Union will not be able to sell this to the public. No way, no how.
My comment is in regards to this statement…
“Many Latin players consider the potential implementation of an international draft a “nonstarter,
And my response is who gives a flying leap if Latin players are upset. Make them all Armature free agents or none of them Armature free agents.
162 games or cancel the season. Baseball is woke anyway
I had my hopes up that we were going to cross the line. But now it seems as if the players want too much. I doubt a deal gets done. Manfred will have to cancel the first two weeks of the season. Also, if a deal doesn’t get done today then I be surprised you get a 100 game season even if they close the gap further on these other issues because the fight will shift to compensation for lost games.
The players better hope this deal is for many a years because next time the owners are going to park it for a season and deal with the Minor Leagues.
Oh my god!!! What isn’t a non starter for the MLBPA at this point? Some of these issues should wait until next cba as there just isn’t enough time to hammer out all the little things.
You are dead right
It definitely sounds like the owners have completely buckled and this will get done.
TIME FOR BASEBALL, Bitches!!!!
Did you even read the article? There’s a good chance of no deal at this point.
Read it. I also read between the lines. They’re still negotiating and are in the process of moving the parts around.
Yeah I read it. Can you see beyond the text?
I’m not sure what’s to see beyond the “players find X unappealing” and “there are still significant gaps?” You can imagine an outcome if it helps, but such comments don’t require one to interpret meaning to words that don’t exist.
Get rid of the base runner in xtra innings. It’s baseball. Earn your way to get on base. What’s a team gonna do. Put an Olympic runner on roster simply JUST to run in extra innings. Don’t think so. Earn your way on base. Hit BB error whatever
Also xtra innings max of 12 innings
Give each team a shot at their 1-9 spots. Tied still after 12? Let it go as a tie in the standings
No sense in losing a couple of your bullpen guys for 2plus days
No ties, ever. And the Runner on 2nd rule has been eliminated.
I’ve gone back and forth but at this point, screw the players. Holding up negotiations over a $10,000 difference in minimum salary? FOH
The Players want a Wild Wild West untraceable International Program. The owners want a system for it. Big Papi and Pedro’s of the world want the Wild West…So you can’t talk to them properly only with Agents for the good players. They do not want proper evaluations, just whomever gets talked about as the next big thing. Young International players cannot aspire to be drafted. It’s a mystery… That’s wrong. We have evolved passed that mentality.
I wonder how all these players wives are going to look in hair nets saying “thank you drive through…” Also, are all the roady girlfriends now going to have to move in with the players and their family? That’s going to be awkward.
This goes to show that the Players are at fault for all this Bru Ha Ha! The deal is essentially what the owners have been offering all along. They want things to be organized, while the Players being Players are problematic to structure.
Universal DH pretty pathetic… Junior circuit mouth breather stuff. Baseball IQ is lowering.
No more strategy.
The “strategy” argument as opposition to the DH is lame. You’d rather see pitchers hit or be pulled early from games instead? There is still strategy involved with or without a DH. The National League and older get off my lawn fans that argue this point are funny. I would much rather see a lineup of nine batters as opposed to watching the majority of pitchers flail away at the plate.
These people are so intellectually challenged they think the double switch and walking the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher adds strategy to the game.
These people have forgotten more about the game than you’ll ever know, mental midget.
Do you know who Bob Boone is? Stanford graduate. Two sons who are managers, managed in both leagues. One of the smartest players ever.
He said it was tougher to manage in the American League.
The hardest part of managing is knowing when to take out the pitcher, in the National League, you can pretty much refer to your handy dandy “when to take a pitcher out” cheat sheet.
That was obvious to me in the mid-seventies, some people still don’t understand.
Maybe Frank Tanana would be in the Hall of Fame if he pitched in the NL. AL Managers had no idea when they should take out pitchers.
Halo11Fan I agree with you 99% of the time but not on this one and using terms like intellectually challenged is just name calling for name calling sake.
A.) If you play on a team you should hit; period. None of this well the pitchers in general don’t hit well so lets say Kings are wild on Tuesday as an analogy to a card game. We should do this if you want to justify rule changes like the DH; let only the best 4 hitters bat on a team; why not? You are already making stuff up as you go along.
B) Yes it is strategy when you have to decide in a tight game do I even take my pitcher out and bat for him and who on the bench do I use and if he will be needed later in the game.
C) DH is a perversion to the game that lasted 97 years without it.
D) Makes no logical sense that any player or position should have a “special” rule.
It doesn’t take a college graduate to manage and citing one person’s opinion doesn’t give anyone the right to call people
“intellectually challenged”
“like intellectually challenged i”
You are 100 percent right. It was very immature of me.
I let this comment affect me (Baseball IQ is lowering.)
I should have just made my point. I don’t mind pitchers hitting, what I hate is the number 8 hitter constantly being pitched around. I hate how pitchers can work around the bottom of the order. Strategy requires “strategy”, watching the NL, it doesn’t require a brain to understand what going to happen before it happens. It’s obvious. When something is that obvious, I don’t call it strategy.
@Canosucks Saying something and following it by saying, “period”, so as to imply that your logic is unquestionably right and unassailable – is intellectually weak, to put it politely.
Just because a thing was always a certain way doesn’t mean that thing should always remain that way – world without end.
Since you like tautologies so much, try this one on; If you play on a team you should pitch; period. (Otherwise the game has no genuine symmetry to it, right?)
Certainly there are things that have changed over the last 97 years that are better for the game. If you truly regard the DH to be a “perversion”, maybe you actually do have issues – intellectually speaking… 😉
there are a few dumb stabford graduates. does not garantee being smart.
Aragon, I agree with that. However, Bob Boone was a smart player and did raise two managers. He’s part of the first three generational baseball family.
His opinion caries a lot of weight.
If these reports are true, this is getting done pronto. There is nothing left worth fighting about except posturing for 2026. The international draft will not hold this up – MLBPA just has to show the international players they tried. Equally, elimination of the QO effects so few players that I cannot see that being a deal breaker for the players. Only real gap is pre-arb bonus pool – start at 45 and have it go up 2 million per year. Play ball, dummies.
My thoughts on game changes:
Universal DH – Changes genius of NL game. Was 100% against, 2020 changed me. Still against, but can live with it.
Pitch clock – I would not do it, but I am clearly in the minority in not caring about the time of games.
No shift – Bad change.
Standard owner positioning and rhetoric going on at the moment. I still believe we have a path to a deal, but of course there are no guarantees. I mean, there will be a deal, but is it today, or does Manfred once again sit back, talk on the sidelines for another week, before creating another deadline a week on? (BTW I don’t dislike people like Manfred or Boras. They’re very good at their jobs and they’re doing their jobs.)
As for the international draft: No.
I have a distrust of ownership on this issue, more than even other issues. They don’t care about the economic or social conditions of Latin American players at all. How little do they care? In the words of Dean Wormer: 0.0. They care about money. That’s ok, that’s their role as owners, but they’re also using words to suggest they do care and that they’re trying to improve the situation of these young me throughout Latin America. That’s disingenuous. They’re pretending this is coming from goodness, when in reality it’s coming from a spot to save money. They’ve tried inserting an international draft in the last several CBAs, probably every one this century.
While they’ve discussed it as part of this CBA, it wasn’t until last night that they insisted an international draft was a “must have” and tied it to their previous commitment to eliminate free agent draft pick compensation, basically backtracking on a commitment made. MLB has now tried claiming the MLBPA originally suggested this, but there is no evidence of this. That indicates to me that MLB purposely did this hoping at the last hour to ram it through. I’m glad the MLBPA seems to have firmly said no.
The history of implementing the draft in the U.S. had a detrimental impact on Black participation in the sport. It seemed to have a similar impact in Puerto Rico when they were put into the North American draft. I don’t want to rush in and have that type of impact on Latin America. Will it? We don’t know, but there deserves to be a longer conversation and thought put in by both sides, not while trying to push through a CBA in the last hour.
I’ll listen to people like David Ortiz and many other Latin American players who don’t like this. I will not inflict my U.S,-centric view on Latin America. These kids and young men don’t stay in a school until their 18, they don’t have travel leagues and they don’t have the don’t have the opportunity of college.
The idea that MLB and teams are going to fund playing academies for these kids for years, while not getting any direct benefit is hilarious. It’s not happening.
So they should drop this from the CBA negotiations. MLBPA should give something else back. Move on and sign the deal, but agree to meet regularly to try and address this situation longer term so that it doesn’t damage baseball in Latin America and maybe eventually their can be a draft.
So major league baseball team owners are responsible for the economic realities of the Caribbean, Central and South America?
No.
Isn’t the current arrangement rife with shady dealings and corruption? I totally agree that it’s not a solution to just snap some CBA fingers and say “you in draft now”, although some structure and consistency seems overdue. With a structured system in place, all teams would ultimately benefit from playing academies and instructional leagues.
I’m notoriously anti-owner but man if the players think they can get EVERYTHING they want they’re not playing this season
They’re not getting everything. Neither side is getting everything. They’re negotiating and they have an issue with an international draft as structured. Nothing more than that.
Why dies the headline m say that the owners are pessimistic yet nowhere in the article does it talk about that?
Bring on the replacement players! I root for the team not the player
I agree and as a Mets fan I am not even a fan of our 2 highest paid players.
9lives
I second your comment as a long time Mets fan
I’ve seen this negotiation tactic before. Ask for something totally ridiculous never intending for it to be accepted, then drop it. It can work….hopefully it will here.
This sport is joke anymore. Glorified Home Run derby. No more excitement. Who cares how long it takes to throw a pitch? If you don’t like the head games, maybe you’re not really a fan of this sport? The whole reason you try to steal a base is to make the game exciting by taking a chance. We can bet on the every aspect of the game, but player can’t take a chance by stealing a base, moving runners over with a bunt, et al? All this talk about the game is too long, but let’s not let pitchers bat? We want more offense, and we want it in less time? It doesn’t really work that way, now does it? And now we can’t even have home run derby because the players don’t want an international draft?
END THIS NOW!
JUST DO IT! WRT the international draft; who cares… you get the opportunity to come to the states and play baseball while getting paid millions; regardless of your team.
I am in disagreement with the players on these. There should be an Intl. Draft and no QO draft pick.
What’s wrong with just doing the draft pick comp like the NFL?
Lose a free agent? Get a comp pick after a certain round. Could tie it to large market or small market depending on contract the free agent signs.
Never understood why it was ever tied to a team who signed the free agent, and why the players would ever agree to that. Of course that would limit some soon to be free agents. Players had to know that would not be good for them.
Sorry the players are 100% at fault now… every league has a draft… and they couldn’t accept cbt? They have to ask for that extra 2 million in year one ? Greedy mfs
If it gets down to this one issue where foreign players insist on being minor league free agents, and American born players are not, then all but the most ardent and bias pro-players faction will be against the players.
The owners trying to get a deal now and then reopening this up two years from now is brilliant.
There is no way the players will go out on strike for the purpose of getting more rights for foreign born players than American born players.
If the owners can get it down to this one issue, public opinion will turn drastically.
Oh just vote on it for Pete’s sake!!!
“What do we do now, Mr Boras ?”
My goodness me. I hope someone makes a doco on this process.
Boras doesn’t care about foreign born minor league free agents. Does he?
If the decision reopens the CBA in 2 years time….I’m guessing “yes”.
They’re still having discussions, so that’s all a positive. Unfortunately, they’re also bickering through the media at the moment. I almost feel like MLBN should shut down until negotiations are completed! (Not serious.)
My guess is we don’t have an agreement today, but perhaps we will by tomorrow. I don’t see anything so earth shattering on either side that this will lead to a prolonged shut down. They’re closing the gaps. Keep pushing. A lot, if not all, of the nonsense we’re hearing is common in these type of negotiations, with one side trying to move the other side off an issue.
Welp, at least we won’t be subjected to watching the Marlins and Pirates this season.
Or the Mets
Hmm. Are you insinuating that I’m a Mets fan?
Just F’ing do this
Cancel the season. Just fudging kill it all. This is taking way too long. It’s embarrassing.
Eat the rich.
You can’t wait another few hours?
If there’s only one unresolved issue, International Draft , sign the deal with the provision that the ID will be submitted to binding arbitration. End this nightmare.
If they don’t then the League is going to cancel games since there is nothing left to discuss.
Just noticed the “reopener” option posted a couple minutes ago: “4:38pm: Under the league’s “reopener” option, the union would have to decide whether to agree to an international draft on November 15, 2022. If they agree, the draft would go into effect in 2024. If they refuse, MLB would have the right to unilaterally reopen the entire CBA after the 2024 campaign (via Drellich).”
I’m just catching up on all the international draft stuff that popped today. This feels like something the MLBPA can agree to. The two sides can continue to talk during 2022 and come up with a form of an international draft the two sides can agree on. They can even continue to talk through 2024. I’d be careful, though, if I was MLB. A reopener will give the players another chance in the near term to come up with even more requests and changes. I’m not convinced MLB would reopen discussions at that point. They might as well wait two more years. Based on that, I can’t see any reason for the MLBPA to not accept the reopener option if it will get a deal done today.
I’m fine with cancelling 2023 if the Yankees win this year.
Owners fault if players don’t accept. They operated with too much bad faith over the past decade. I don’t blame the players at all if they find the terms unacceptable. They’ve made more concessions than the owners though I will credit the owners for moving a little yesterday. Too little, too late?
Nonsense!
Ridiculous.
Further game cancellations? If I’m the owners and the players don’t want to accept the latest proposal then I would tell them the season is canceled. F–k them and F–k Tony Clark.
Yeah, one thing we can be sure of is the owners aren’t going to walk away from probably close to $13 billion in 2022 because of the issues on the table.
I’m with you Setzer. If the players reject this if Im the owners I tell them to pound sand and kick rocks. My view will change from pro-player to pro-owner as will many others I’ve talked to. The players are walking a slippery slope here.
Sounds like the union needs to decide do they want to play and get paid this year or no.t.. its over..
MLBPA – we want more competition
ALSO MLBPA – we say no to a INTNL DRAFT. We want the large market teams to buy up all the best players!
And prevent the worst teams from getting the best picks, and reducing the revenue sharing so that the poorest teams have no money to sign anyone.
Joe, I don’t think the international draft is going to be based on record.
It would be kind of screwy if one team got the best American and International player every year.
Assuming the draft lottery goes through (and likely applies to this draft too) there is a max of a 2.25% chance that the worst team would end up w/ both as they only have a 15% chance at the top pick in the most recent proposal I’ve read. This is the same for the top 3 teams. Then the rest of the worst 8 teams would have 1.6%, 1%, 0.64%, 0.42% and 0.25% chance of getting both.
So, in short, there is roughly maybe a 12% chance that any team would end up w/ both picks.
I could see the league trying to tie this to revenue though as an alternative method, and I’d be curious if any of the anti-tanking measures get applied.
I mean…thats not really an accurate depiction of the current system.
There are pretty extreme penalties for exceeding your international signing pool — the days of big market teams abusing the IFA market and just using deep pockets to gain an unfair advantage are gone, w/ the notable exception of older players (ie Jose Abreu) who are excepted from the current system.
From my understanding, the biggest issue w/ an international draft (which I think can be solved) is that it basically removes leverage from the equation for the player. In other words, if I am a hs senior, I have the leverage of turning down an offer and going to college. If I am a college soph/junior, I can turn down an offer and go back for another year of college and re-enter the draft. Hell, even college seniors can theoretically turn down an offer and play independent ball for a year and re-enter (though college seniors generally have much less leverage as this rarely happens). Regardless of the scenario, there is a real chance that the drafted player can say no to an offer, meaning that it is difficult for teams to go in w/ the strategy of truly lowballing them — they may go underslot, but its hardly a take it or leave it approach.
For the IFA market, there is a feeling that players don’t have that same luxury — that they are generally coming from a position where they really cannot afford to turn down the offer and bet on themselves, and that it creates a system by which players can be forced to take far less than they are worth bc the clubs are squeezing them w/ no real viable alternative.
I think that there are ways to combat this and to ensure that clubs negotiate w/ these players in good faith, but its a lot less simple than “players oppose this bc they want big market teams to buy every IFA”
I’ve been pro-player, but if they reject this deal I’m done with them, and this crap is all on the players.
Clark doesn’t want this to end. He loves the spotlight. If he did he would let the players vote to accept or reject.
Correct Desertbull. I believe if they brought it to a vote of the players it would pass.
This feels close enough that the differences are pennies. Drop the int’l draft. The current system is flawed but workable. It feels like the smartest teams are getting the best international prospects. That’s the way it should be.
If this CBA is held up bc of international draft, then they should just cancel baseball. I will blame this one on the players
What I don’t understand is why is an international draft bad? I honestly don’t know how international players are any different then USA players as far as money? Would it effect the international Markets where clubs post players? I am asking because I don’t understand why the union is so against it… wouldn’t that encourage more scouting and opportunity for international players? All clubs would invest more internationaly I would think…. But I’m asking in general there has to be a reason why there HEAVILY against it.. can someone explain that to me I’m just trying to figure out the down fall of an international draft… there obviously is one I’m just curious what it is
There are bigger things on our collective plates than MLB right now but I need MLB to distract myself from the bigger things on my plate right now.
Watching MLBN, it’s strange to watch a former player, Harold Reynolds, be so pro-owner. I guess he knows where his paycheck comes from. Then again, MLBN employs Kevin Millar, who crossed the line back in 95.
Despite MLB’s latest news that they’re canceling two more series, I still see a path to an agreement as long as they keep talking.
Been pro player all along, but that changed for me today!! Owners finally gave in and middled most of the controversial items and bc of an international draft with 3 separate options avail the players walked away? it doesnt even effect any actual union members!!! Wtf!!! I understand their argument but this just reeks of grandstanding!! Feels like the players r collectively looking to do a dat flip when this over or else they’ll take their marbles(and bats and balls) and go home!! Like groe the f up..children, this is a fair deal, make a choice on the int draft and lets play ball or else just cancel the season now