The Pirates announced this afternoon they’ve optioned top shortstop prospect Oneil Cruz to Triple-A Indianapolis. The 23-year-old will not break camp with the big league club.
Pittsburgh selected Cruz to the MLB roster during the final weekend of last season. That came on the heels of a fantastic .292/.346/.536 line in a pitcher-friendly Double-A setting. The Bucs rewarded the big left-handed hitter with a two-game big league cameo to close out the year, during which time he picked up his first MLB home run.
Despite that brief look, it comes as little surprise the Bucs weren’t planning to carry him in the majors out of the gate this year. He only has six career games at the Triple-A level, and one could argue he’d benefit from a more extended run there before getting a look long at big league pitching. Cruz has performed very well in parts of two seasons at Double-A but has just 38 career plate appearances above that level.
Pittsburgh figures to point to that lack of Triple-A experience as their motivation behind sending Cruz back down, but it’s impossible to ignore the potential service time implications of the decision. Both FanGraphs and Baseball America slotted Cruz as the most talented prospect in the Pittsburgh farm system this winter, with each outlet placing him among the top 15 farmhands in the game. Between his massive raw power and exit velocities, athleticism, and arm strength, both publications suggested he has the potential to be a superstar.
If Cruz reaches that upside, getting a seventh year of club control would be incredibly valuable for the Pirates. Despite the aforementioned two days of MLB service he picked up at the end of last season, he would fall short of an automatic full year of service in 2022 if he stays in the minors for around two and a half weeks.
Service time manipulation was a talking point of the Players Association during the last round of collective bargaining negotiations. The new CBA didn’t overhaul the system, although it did introduce the opportunity for a handful of players to earn “bonus service” each year. The top two finishers in each league’s Rookie of the Year voting are now annually awarded a full year of service regardless of their call-up date.
Even if the Bucs keep him down past the threshold for accruing a full year of service based on the number of days Cruz spends in the majors, he could play his way into the full year by performing as one of the top rookies in the National League whenever he does get called up. Of course, one could argue that possibility incentivizes a rebuilding Pirates team to keep Cruz in the minors even longer. The fewer number of games he plays in the big leagues, the lower his chances are of earning that service year by putting up a Rookie of the Year-caliber season.
How long Cruz spends in the minors remains to be seen, but he clearly won’t get the Opening Day nod at shortstop. Kevin Newman has taken that spot in each of the past two seasons, and it seems likely he’ll get the call there for a third straight year. The 28-year-old Newman is a plus defender but one of the game’s lightest-hitting everyday players; he’s coming off a .226/.265/.309 showing in 554 plate appearances.
Pirates need to be regulated
Clearly service time manipulation. Cruz looked great in Spring Training and he’s being held back by “one of the game’s lightest-hitting everyday players?”
If Cruz is still too raw to play for the Pirates, I’ll bet there are 29 teams that would make an offer for his service right now. He could probably start at SS for 10 of them.
He has major work to do on his defense still, I love the kid but there are legit reasons to send him back down. His fielding percentage last year in AA was 0.931. For reference, the lowest qualifying number in MLB last year (21st out of 21) was 0.952.
Not to mention the opportunities to learn the outfield are still abundant. Unless he had an OPS over 1.000 in the minors, I would be hesitant to bring him up right now
A very Kris Bryant-esque defensive demotion.
He actually does have issues on his defense. A lot of errors in AA last year.. He had 2 home runs that showed his strength but they were pitches out of the zone low and most MLB pitchers will not allow those types of HR often. Another prospect, Rudolfo Castro, had 5 hits, all HR in his first 9 games. Finished hitting .198 and no more homers in 31 games. A couple of homers does not a career make.
When you are a 6 foot 7 shortstop I would think he would have problems with defense
Hence the work on moving him to the OF. He was getting a lot of work with coaches in Altoona right before he went on the IL. They wanted him at SS when he got back from the IL but there was not a lot of time left in the season last year. I would look for him to get a lot of time in the OF to start the year at AAA. The problem with his defense is not ability but rather consistency according to some local writers who watched him play a lot in Altoona last year.
As soon as I saw the headline I knew that there would be the regular reactionary comments about “service time manipulation” with many getting lot of up votes. Then I read the article and the obligatory red meat was thrown to the wolves. Expect this to continue as ST winds down and name prospects are sent down.
Getting back the real world…….
The reason franchises have farm systems is for young players under contract to develop their games, not their statistics. In the case of Mr. Cruz the Pirates would like to see his career with them be at something other than DH. He is athletic, and should be capable of playing a defensive position. They – and most MLB teams (not counting the White Sox and some others) – are not going to bring up a prospect and teach him to play a position at the ML level. They have his rights for 6 years, and they want to get the best player they can for those 6 years. I know that contradicts the agenda of many writers and commentators on this site, but franchises are not in business to further other peoples desire to right what they perceive as an oppressive wrong – and from the comments it appears that fans of teh team feel the same.
goat – Bryant played in 77 AAA games. Cruz? 6. No comparison.
The only thing I will argue is a franchise should be in the business to appease fans or else you don’t have a franchise. We fuel these teams. But everything else I agree with.
SpendNuttinWinNuttin
The only thing I will argue is a franchise should be in the business to appease fans
===================================
So, instead of hiring an Ivy League graduate with a major in sports management, and then grooming him in various aspects of front office work, then promoting him to GM, you want the team to poll the fans to see which moves are most popular? To appease the fans?
Seriously?
You are right Samuel, this article is red meat hidden as an “unbiased” story.
I dont want Cruz to go to AAA, but he has had 6 games in AAA. Period. End of debate. Let him work on his K rate in Indy for a month or so, then see what he can do.
The irony is the noted comment in the Hunter Greene story about the Pirate decision today. It basically is not relevant to that situation or required to tell the story about the Reds decision.
The more I look at it, the more preposterous it looks. He has an .805 OPS in the minors. Which is good considering his age, but nowhere near elite. And he has a stunning 116 errors between SS & 3B in 367 starts. That’s roughly one every three games. He’s obviously not an infielder.
So I am wondering where the folks complaining about a lack of promotion, think he is going to play? That’s like a beer softball league type of mentality.
Joe-Some of these posters are definitely not at the same level of “beer league softball players”.
JoeBrady
What are you even referencing? If a team has no fans then guess what, there ain’t no damn team? WTF are you even talking about the GM for no one said a damn thing about that? Lol not once did I even say Cruz should’ve been purchased to the MLB team… I agree he needs more ABs at the lower level. Doesn’t mean you can not spend money for 25 years and not lose the fans who pay for tickets and fill the place.. All i said is the fans are still important and you still have to take their reaction into somewhat of a perspective.
You said: “The only thing I will argue is a franchise should be in the business to appease fans”.
I assumed that meant you think the GM should appease the fans by promoting the players that the fans want to see. I see no other way to interpret that remark, but I am certainly willing to hear your explanation.
I literally said I agreed with everything he said except that a franchise owner shouldn’t care about the fans. If there are no fans there’s no money there’s no owning that franchise because there’s no profits. I don’t know any easier way to explain to you the economics of the game. YES the Pirates should’ve sent down Cruz, Roansy, and anyone they feel isn’t ready because it’s better for the team. But the also can’t spend less than $50 mil while being one of the top 10 wealthiest owners in the league it alienates a fan base who now doesn’t want to spend a dime to come into the ballpark, buy any merch, or even click an article on the team. I didn’t say all that mattered was the fans like you are acting. I said they pleasing them is a part of being a franchise owner in an entertainment business……
Okay, that I understand a little better. I don’t agree that the personal wealth of the owner should have anything to do with how the club operates. That’s his personal money, not the fans.
But I do agree that some investment is necessary. Just imho, but I think the owners in general would be better off being a little more open and a little more generous. Two things in particular:
1-Tell the fans how long you think the rebuild will take. They read all the articles, so it isn’t like they don’t already know. As a fan, I’d be more invested if I could see the future. Tell them that you anticipate a payroll of $50M in ’22, followed by $60M in 23, $80M in 24, etc.
2-Adjust your prices accordingly. Say the Pirates can afford a $100M payroll on average. Tell the fans that you are cutting ticket & concession prices by 20% when the payroll drops to $50M, and will raise them back up when you are back to a $100M payroll. It might keep the fans tethered to the team.
It might be his personal money but he earns it from the fans and team and he should reinvest it accordingly. But I agree with what you have to say if things were more transparent then all parties, fans, media, etc. than it’s easier to sit through a rebuild. Any glimmer of hope helps, I just truly believe all these owners should be forced to have a payroll floor.
What’s wrong with service time manipulation? It’s perfectly allowable under the contract. Where’s the grievance?
Right. If the pirates were expected to contend then he should be up opening day. But they suck with or without him. Although, the rookie of the year stuff is a new wrinkle. They might keep him down a tad longer than before because of that. Right now, I don’t see any reason to rush him though.
Calm down people, he has 29 AAA PAs.
There was no way he was going to make the team.
plenty of teams have fast-tracked players before. and Newman might have a great glove, but for someone that gets as many ABs as he does, he’s one of the worst hitters in the league. Hoy Park probably has a better chance of out-hitting him, which doesn’t say THAT much
and that’s “fine” in the fact that the Pirates clearly don’t care about winning this year, but it helps make that more apparent to the broader fan base
He also having a position change.
This is not a good example of service time manipulation. He was not going to make the team and everyone knows it.
He doesn’t have many AAA ABs and he needs some time to get everyday innings in the outfield.
If he’s as good as everyone thinks, including me, he’ll be up here in a month and will have a great chance of earning that full year of service time.
This is nothing like Bryant.
Did you mean relegated, like in England’s football leagues?
I think he’s referring to Warren G.
I agree: Pirates’ finances need to be regulated so they stop socking away funds from revenue sharing and paying out 33% of it, while putting a poor performing team in the field.
Or maybe Yankee Clipper wants them regulated to stop ripping off the Yankees in the many trades since mid 2000s. Pirate fans LOVE trades with Yankees.
Cool take, bro! Except, being “regulated” makes no sense, idiot.
Not surprising but still total bs nonetheless.
Disgusting, sell the team.
Cruz looks like a small forward out there playing shortstop. Nice prospect, can’t imagine lining a ball past him.
His defense is below average at SS
The Pirates knew this last year, yet they still kept him at short. So stupid.
I questioned their motive 2 years ago when keeping him at SS. I thought he’d fair better in the corner OF positions. I mean Swaggerty, Reynolds, Oneil Cruz from left to right, doesn’t look horrible. It would be just as promising as Marte, McCutchen, and Polanco during their time with the Bucs
Let’s be real Swaggerty’s career is over before it starts.
No reason to rush him is there? They should have signed some real players but keeping O’Neill in the minors for now is no crime.
Yeah, I don’t actually have a problem with this move. It’s their financial [criminal] activity that I have the problem with. Cruz still needs a bit of work if you watch him. Let me be clear though, if he didn’t need work I don’t trust the Pirates to do the right thing, at all.
I love the Pittsburgh Pirates… its terrible what that ownership has done… we will see what the future holds, the change in management looked good, but they basically laid down and did NOTHING in this off season. Again. I’m generally, admittedly, more pro-owners, but in this case…. Ugh
Cosmo- They only have so many places on the 40 man roster.
They are going to lose 90 games anyway.
They need to give the young players playing time,and they have to make decisions on a lot of them.
Yes,they needed some more pitching depth,but where to put them on the roster.
I hope that they can make ten games progress but it will be interesting to see if the young players can develop.
I think that, with a bit of effort, they could avoid losing 90 games. I doubt that they could seriously compete for the playoffs, but they could be better.
It’s obvious you have no idea of the talent the Pirates have and that’s about break into the majors this year and no idea how bad the NL Central is. The Pirates aren’t losing 90 games.
O’s-No,what is obvious is that you do not know that young players make plenty of mistakes and it takes time for the good ones to grow.You also do not obviously know that good minor league players do not automatically grow into good major league players.In addition,and this is obvious from your comment,that you do not know that small market teams do not generally have the wherewithal,especially when they are rebuilding,to provide major league depth.This is necessary for the myriad of injuries that are forthcoming,especially to pitchers.
Other than those points,your post is an accurate one and based clearly on your extensive intelligence.
Cosmo- You May very be correct,although I would use the word “luck” instead of “effort”as I have not seen a lack of effort recently.
My point is that I would be happy with 70 wins as beggars can’t be choosers,and that would show clearcut progress in the rebuild.
What they do not want to do is wallow around 100 losses like several ML teams have recently done.
Perhaps only then will we be free of these inane Pirate “jokes” on this site.
I meant effort on the front office’s part. Hopefully there is a plan here and it’s a team on the way up.
Cosmo- 10-4 I do not doubt that Nutting will spend some of the money that he has saved in the last few years when the Pirates are competitive.
It should be obvious that there is a plan and they will be getting better.
The question,as always with small market teams,is whether they can actually become a very good team as opposed to just a good team.That is the difference between competing for the playoffs or competing for the World Championship.
The last Pirates title was only seven years before the last Mets title.
Your obsession with the Mets is ridiculous. And I’m not even a Mets fan.
Rivalries don’t end just because one team sucks.
unshocking – they needed to make up Service Time lost bringing him up late last year.
I’m glad we had a lockout so that things like this could continue.
If Cruz is in the running for ROY, they’ll bench him in September.
No they won’t. I believe all teams pooled the bonus money for end of year payouts (around $2M per team per year). Also, they would get extra draft picks for Cruz winning the ROY and Pitt loves their draft picks!
I think they only get a pick if he’s up all season to get the pick.
Good catch, you are correct
Nashville, Charlotte, San Antonio, Las Vegas and one of Portland/Vancouver could all use a team. Relocate the Pirates, Marlins, Rays, SPIDERS and Athletics to those five cities and change all of the team names.
How about no
@mlb1225
I actually like the Pirates uniforms but the franchise has gone in the toilet…sort of like another franchise in FLUSHING.
Salt Lake City would be neat.. I think Indianapolis, Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News area, or Columbus would draw in a pretty good crowd; if they’re looking closer.
I’d prefer for whoever owns them to sell, and the Pirates to remain in Pittsburgh. I’m sure it’s frustrating for Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Their fans are more loyal than I would be!
Taking the Pirates out of Pittsburgh makes no sense. Taking the Pirates off of Bob Nutting makes all the sense.
How would this change anything? You cannot force an owner to sell. Move the team anywhere but you’re still going to have the same owner.
Not trying to troll.. but, I can see ownership using the excuse of bottom 5 attendance reasonings. It’s sad because Nutting is a local boy.
This “local boy” comment almost made me blow my drink through my nose. Hilarious. Look, there are only so many fireworks night and pierogi races you can throw at fans in hopes to fool them to watch the team you’ve built. Let’s be serious here—put a competitive team on the field and people will come out. But this owner has literally alienated the entire fan base through his actions
Relocation is not going to be an answer when the novelty of watching this type of team fades
But of course, revenue accrued from attendance is but a pittance where MLB is concerned. Nutting knows this and knows he might as well keep personnel costs down.
Last I looked, this “local boy” was in the top half of wealthiest owners
Well you might want to look again. Nutting is actually in the bottom half of richest owners, 23rd I believe. MLBTR actually posted this a couple months ago.
But markets suggested are not expected to be bigger than Pitsburgh. The largest markets are already taken.
With that gorgeous ballpark, there is no way they would relocate the Pirates. If the team starts winning, fans will show up. Pittsburgh is definitely a football/hockey town but they will support the Pirates too when they are worthy of support (in the fans eyes).
Was a great baseball town too. Both the Steelers and Penguins had horrendous histories and could not draw prior to the 70’s for the Steelers and the 90’s for the Pens. Both teams were awful prior to that..
You don’t move one of the most storied franchises. You move the ones who aren’t making money. Nutting is making a ton. The franchise is successful, even if the on field product isn’t.
Spend- All teams go through highs and lows.The small market teams highs only last a few years.
The proof of the pudding occurs when and if these young players develop well and free agents are needed to augment them.Then some of the recent profits need to be reinvested in a few key free agents.
Even with the new rules, I still expected this. Unless they change it to where teams are guarenteed the 6th year out of the gate, teams, especially ones like the Pirates, will always send their prospects to the minors for the first month or so to get that extra year.
this makes less sense with a guy that was the odds-favorite to win NL ROTY. maybe with Suzuki on the Cubs now, he becomes the favorite. either way, with the new CBA rules, the Pirates have zero incentive to bring him up earlier than say, July, now. you can’t risk him getting ROTY votes or he gets an automatic year of service time, regardless of how many games he played
If he’s up in a month, and is as good as everyone thinks, he’ll earn a full year of service time.
Can he play a few games at AAA before you put him in Hall of Fame.
That’s a good point. Holding them down for a month has little incentive anymore.
@Hal011Fan I certainly agree with avoiding crowning the kid already, I was merely saying he is quite literally the favorite to win the NL ROTY per several gambling sites (although I’m sure that has changed now). And from writers, he is often one of the most floated names for doing so as well.
People often overestimate what kind of stat line can put you in contention for ROTY. India ranked 36th in the NL in WAR last year. Randy Arozarena was good for 43rd in the AL. Not everyone has or needs an MVP kind of debut like Mike Trout to be in contention for ROTY votes.
If he’s up in a month, which I think is likely, I still think he’s the favorite to win ROY.
If he hits in AAA, and is not brough up in a month, I’ll scream as well.
They don’t get a draft pick though.
Just a question, but Cr4z can’t play ANY position reliably yet, so where exactly will he play and benefit the team?. Will he be another player that spends his career as the Designated Hitter like Nelson Cruz, because he can’t be put in the field without a nightmare taking place with errors galore. Cruz was sent to the minors – not to refine his hitting, but to learn how to play the outfield so he is an asset, not a liability or single facet player that never sees the field. The majors are filled with many DH players because they were rushed to the majors and then proved they belonged in the minors. Hitters are a dime a dozen, but having players that can also play defense at an elite level is their true value.
And the owner of the Dallas Mavericks was NOT approved to buy Pittsburgh….?
THAT us the #$%&÷ up thing….
Cuban never made a formal offer. back in 2005 when he asked about buying it. Since then, most recently in 2020 he said that the game was a mess and was thankful that he never invested in baseball. That tells me that he would not have wanted spend his own money on payroll for a team like the Pirates has limited revenue streams except for the national TV deals and whatever money comes form the CBT. There is no money in the local TV deal. sounds like he would only want to be an owner of one of the top 10 revenue teams so that he could operate like they do. the lower 20 have to operate based on windows of opportunity and otherwise he could not spend freely on players like he would want without spending his own money. The Pirates would not change much under Cuban.
I hate the way teams manipulate service time and the Pirates are a huge offender at times. But Cruz has a whopping 38 at-bats above Double A, that’s at-bats not games. In this instance, time at Triple A is the right thing to do to start this year. If Cruz plays most of this year, stays healthy, and is productive and they try to start him in the minors next year, and then shortly after call him up, I’ll be the 1st to call out the move.
You clearly haven’t seen him play if your only take is that he has minimal at-bats in the AA
You clearly can’t read. What I said I that he has 38 at-bats ABOVE Double A.
Nope, I can’t read. Still doesn’t change the fact that you’re glib at best when talking about, Oniel Cruz.
@brandonwoofler is 100% right. I have followed him the last few of years like all of the minor league teams for the Pirates because they have be more interesting to pay attention to. Cruz had a long stretch on the IL last year. Missed out on moving up to AAA, just like Roansy Contreras. Both would have been competing for the opening day roster had they not been hurt. and missed a lot of time right after a missed season in 2020. Both will be up after a month or so in AAA . :Cruz legitimately needs to work on his defensive work. A ton of errors in AA last year.
brandon: Exactly. And while he ran some good numbers this spring, I also saw him get eaten alive by hard inside stuff.
The guy has HUGE talent; no one doubts it. But (a) he’ll never play SS at the level a winning team needs and (b) he likely can use the AB’s in AAA.
Could he play SS now? Sure, as a gag. But if the Bucs ever compete, he’ll be the LF (and probably an All Star one).
Newman? Shoot him. Tucker should be out there every day.
Tucker finally looks like he took a step forward. Good chance he does play a ton more and Newman has been shopped. He will be gone as soon as a team needs a good glove MI. He actually has looked a bit better at the plate as well this spring. Not good enough to win a starting job but good enough for someone needing a band aide because of an injury or two.
Look. if you’re going to lose 90 games, which is likely, why not do it with some fun players. Tucker is personality-plus, and on a team where the star (Reynolds) doesn’t say poop if he has a mouthful, and whose TV voices all died 5 years ago and didn’t have the sense to lay down, that can help.
And I don’t think they did Tucker any favors bouncing him around; tell the guy he’s your SS until he proves he isn’t. You folks have a TON of middle infield prospects, and there really isn’t a reason not to see what Tucker has got. Newman has an option year left; I’d use it. Tucker’s glove is almost as good, and there’s more offensive upside.
I’ convinced the Bucs are on the cusp of good things. And I have all the faith in the world in Ben C,. provided of course he gets Nutting’s cooperation. Let’s face it, the division isn’t the best, and while there’s smart folks in St. Lois and Milwaukee, and the Cubs have money to burn, it’s winnable in a couple of years.
Bob- It is unlawful to shoot anyone in this country.You may not be able to get onto this site in prison.
You can evidently slap him,though,and get away with it.
Methinks they will move Cruz to right field if he has such a good arm.
And you are spot on about Tucker.
Newman hit like an all-star in 2019,though,which should tell you something about the baseballs that were used that year.
This is Hopefully the last year that the Pirates have time to experiment.
Should have given Rock a big wet one on his lips; now THAT would have been noteworthy.
I saw some clips and Smith was actually laughing at what Rock.said.Someone told me ,though,that he saw his wife’s face,and his demeanor quickly changed.He is a much larger man than Rock.He probably should have gone up like he did and pointed his finger right in his face with an angry look.That would have said all that he needed to say.
In the old days they would have met afterwards in the alley and straightened it out.
Your method may have given the wrong signal,but it certainly would have been newsworthy!
People don’t want to look at the numbers. They just want to complain. This dude is screaming out for more AAA ABs. And not even to get him past the service time issue. He had a very weak 64/20 K/W in AA, at age 22. In an insignificant sample size, he had a 44% K-rate last year with the Pirates.
I just had this conversation with a friend of mine. Kingery wasn’t ready. Duran is not currently ready. There are 10-15 guys like this every year. Very few guys are ML ready until they get their K/W under 2:1.
Joe, you mean people are supposed to do some research before posting ignorant reactionary comments on a message board?
If you take that away, the forums die.
29 AAA plate appearances. They are going to get him reps in the outfield. Of course they were going to send him down.
Unless he finds the golden glove down in AAA, he’s most likely destined to become an outfielder. He booted nearly 8% of all balls hit to him at short last year in AA and that will only get worse in the majors. It will be interesting to see where they deploy him in AAA, but his fastest path to the majors is most likely in the OF vs. SS. I’m just not sure where the Pirates organization sees him playing long term.
We fans all new this was coming with any legit Prospect…the Lockout did nothing to change how Small Market teams must use their Revenue Sharing,no fine for not spending. 80% should go towards on field player salaries. So this is a portion of revenue sharing, MLB Tv Broadcasting Contract $12B over 7yrs, / by 30 teams, $400M a team per 7yrs. $57.1M a year for the Buccos. Pirates 2022 payroll +$37.8M do you see a problem. Esp in 2018 they received total in Revenue Sharing @ $118m..
This is a tongue in cheek post, but it is the average fans mentality when it comes to payroll of a team. If salary equates to winning, why were the Dodgers mostly irrelevant in the world series, the Yankees irrelevant, other teams with huge payrolls won absolutely NOTHING. i know and Pittsburgh can trade all their young talent in the minors for Hosmer, Myers, Chris Davis, Miquel Cabrera, Giancarlo Stanton, Jason Hayworth, sign Cueto, Archer, etc and pick up other teams cast offs. Sure, the salary equals 150 million, but the product on the field equals last place failure. How does that benefit the city, team, or the fans. They can’t complain because the club spent over a 100 million on the final product. lol
Spending money does not equal winning but it gives you a higher margin of error
numbers are misrepresented by many sites so i can see your frustration here but in actuality it isn’t near as an issue as you imply.
When the team was winning payroll generally went up and their revenue sharing decreased. large portion of that was extensions they signed years before. Also when most of your team is fielded by rookie contracts with some middle of the road free agents to fill in (because no top end free agent will sign here) your payroll isn’t going to be 150m.
Any one complaining about salary while in a rebuild needs to sit down.
Revenue sharing doesn’t have to go to payroll. Baseball operations, coaches staff, minor league teams, staff and training facilities, etc.
Joe-And the Pirates did need to spend in the areas that you mention.
6’7 shortstop? 6’2 used to be too tall- but it’s worked- He must be incredibly athletic
Yeah he’s going to be an OFer-it’s just a matter of time.
As soon a Peguero is ready.
I was betting on the CBA disallowing this kinda crap. The billionaires win again :/
Just a question, but if you were a Pittsburgh fan screaming top prospects should be promoted before they are ready, that leads to the question and would you also be in favor of watching those same players leave for other teams when they become too expensive to keep and their prime years are wasted on a team that wasn’t built to compete yet? That has been the recurring theme of small-market teams for decades since free agency entered the picture in the seventies. Draft, sign, groom, and help players succeed, only to watch them leave in free agency or get traded in the last year of arbitration. Exactly how did that benefit the fans that screamed for them to come up early when they weren’t ready? It didn’t because their best years will now be spent elsewhere.
Wisdom- This post makes too much sense.Please refrain from doing so.
It makes no sense. I think most of the posters that want prospects to be promoted early are the anti-owner posters, All promoting Cruz would do is to not only lose a year of service, but to also lose a quality year. 3 months in the minors in RF would not only improve his defense, but likely improve his pitch selection.
Joe- Many of the poor quality posters have no sense.
i would love to see him play right from the start of the season,but i agree with those who say he needs more time in indy. keep him down there let him learn left field, when he is dominating triple A pitching ,bring him up put him left and the rest is history..
I am not a fan at all of the Pirates, so I don’t know nearly as much as a Pitt fan would about his defense. But being a Tigers fan and watching him play against us this spring, I will say he 4 sure has the chops to play in MLB offensively right now. He is a monster at the plate and one of the largest infielders I’ve ever seen. But whenever he gets his call, I would be excited as hell to watch this kid play for the next 10 years! He could be special!
I can’t wait to see him play for the next 10 years… 4 with Pittsburgh, and the other 6 with someone else
Although I’m excited to see Cruz in the Bigs, he needs to rake at AAA for 4 to 6 weeks, while getting some time in the OF to ensure that he is ready to play. I wouldn’t mind seeing Roansy Contreras dominate AAA hitters the way he did AA hitters for about 6 weeks as well. There is no need to rush these guys when the team is going to finish 5th in the division, no matter what. Fine tune a few things and then bring them up when they are ready. Let’s face it, Peguero is the Bucs’ SS of the future. Cruz will be a big league OF. Patience.
Considering the current state of the Reds Cubs and the Cards pitching staff, 4th is not out of the question. 4th would be easier with Oneil and Roansy but why bother.
Go- It seems to me that the Reds want to finish in last place.
Cruz for two months of Tony Watson seems like a pretty good trade.
Same GM that made the awful Archer trade. You win some… you lose some. The problem with the Archer trade was timing. After trading Cole and Cutch in the off season and with lower expectations for the season. The Pirates went on an extreme hot streak around the All-Star break. Hunnington final did what the fans and Pittsburgh media wanted. Trade prospects for established players. Bold predictions: Cruz will end up with more WAR than Meadows, Baez and Glasnow combined.
The truth is Huntingdon won most of his trades. He fleeced people. Then, as you said, one hot streak combined with dropping attendance and Nutting makes him make a trade and it’s all he’s known for…
“He sits next to the man, who obviously already had a few and starts a conversation. The old man tells him: “You see that dock out there? Built it myself, hand crafted each piece, and it’s the best dock in town! But do they call me “McGregor the dock builder”? No! And you see that bridge over there? I built that, took me two months, through rain, sleet and scoarching weather, but do they call me “McGregor the bridge builder”? No! And you see that pier over there, I built that, best pier in the county! But do they call me “McGregor the pier builder”? No!” The old man then leans in closer: “but you **** one sheep…””
Josh- That was just another example of a terrible Neil Huntington trade.
Why does the author insinuate Altoona, PA is a hitters paradise?
He called it “a pitcher-friendly park”
The article was edited to make my comment seem buffoonish.
6’7…. If he’s got the athleticism to even C+ play shortstop he’s likely got a future at 1B if the OF doesn’t work out. Appears to have the hitting profile for it too.
His arm is a cannon that would be wasted at first base.
The Pirates aren’t winning anything so let the guy work on his game. Everyone wants to cry service time manipulation these days because it seems to be the popular thing to do amongst fans but sometimes players literally do need work and this is the case here.
Thank you.
People are ignoring the fact that he only played in 63 of 117 games in AA due to a long stint on the IL and 6 games in AAA and 2in Pittsburgh. That was after not playing in 2020. Considering his errors at short and only a couple of games in the OF this spring training it makes total sense to let him play 1/2 a season at AAA to work on both SS and the OF.
Mystery- The more that I am on this site the better I can tell who the thoughtful and knowledgeable posters are.
There is little or no “ mystery” to the others.
Generally the popular thing to do makes little sense with reality.
But the good posters bring up a lot of good points and new ideas.
Definitely a worse player than Kevin Newman. Good decision.
Defensively, that is a true statement. Peguero is also a better SS than Cruz. Cruz needs to take reps in the OF before coming up to the Bucs to stay.
Peguero and Gonzales should be at AA to start the season. Depending how things go both could be in AAA in the 2nd half. If things go well things will start getting fun in Pittsburgh in 2023.
Right now he is mlb ready dh. I would much rather develop a mlb ss or of. Nothing to do with service time. But if he was a mlb ready position player they would manipulate his service time. Why wouldn’t you, it’s the smart thing to do. Won’t see Cruz until a few players are well into being favorites to win roy.
What a joke of a team. The next good decision they make will be the 1st.
Regarding Newman. He’s the only player in the history of the Cape Cod League to lead the league in hitting twice. I think the Pirates expected much more from his bat in terms of at least being a better hitter for average.
Cbee-I am surprised that he is not a better hitter.The year 2019 was a defined outlier.He has been pretty bad otherwise.I think that Tucker has more range and is flashier but last year Newman was like Larry Bowa.Not sure what will happen if both hit and field well this year.
Based on his Cape Cod years I figured that Newman would be a solid 280-290 hitter with maybe ten homers a year,comparable to Jordy Mercer in the field and at bat but with a higher average.I am not sure why he has not progressed more.
Is there any real reason to attend a Pirate game?
Listen, this franchise is historical to the game, but hasn’t and won’t compete in this era. Either force this ownership to sell or move the franchise “for the good of the game”.
I don’t care who they pencil onto the lineup card at shortstop, that player won’t influence the outcome of any final standing sheet. It’s sad.
“Zambelli” is all he needs.
Two MLB Games. Two MLB games. Two MLB games
29 Triple A Plate Appearances, 29 Triple A Plate Appearances, 29 Triple A Plate Appearances
Did i mention Two MLB games and 29 Triple A Plate Appearances?
There is complete justification for sending him down a month. Service time is a bonus. If they call him up before a month, i would consider filing a grievance. After the season it probably won’t matter as he has a great shot at being rookie of the year.
He’ll probably end up in the outfield with so much middle infield talent the pirates have coming up and he also profiles well in right.
If it were me I would try to extend him right now and buy out his possible service time issues and add on a couple years. similar to a Polanco contract just increased numbers based on the times.
Try to do the same with Reynolds and Hayes so they’re all there at the same time an extra year or two and then can refill the farm or even extend if it makes sense. If they can get one to extend i think the others would be more likely too as it shows a commitment to winning.
Joe-I agree with you on Cruz except that I would give no one a contract like that until they have had at least one good year in the majors.Look at Singleton and Kingery for example.Acuna got his money after it was clear that he was a good major league player.
I get the impression that Reynolds and Hayes do not want to sign those contracts,but if the money was enormous perhaps they would change their minds.
Screw service time. He should be on the opening day roster.
No, and it isn’t particularly close.
1-He had 12 HRs in 250 ABs in AA, with a 64/20 K/W. That’s kind of mediocre.
2-He has no position to play. He has 82 errors in 275 starts at SS. That’s 48 errors over a 162-game season.
Start him at SS this year, and there is a pretty good chance he will be a negative WAR player.
Joe- And there is a reason why the old axiom applies-Be defensively strong up the middle.
Only good fielders for catcher,second base,shortstop,and center field.
Hopefully,the Pirates have figured this out,and It takes Cruz only one month to become decent in right field.
First the Pirates are not leaving Pittsburgh, after 130 years. Second, of course Nutting is cheap, worst owner in MLB because he only cares about making money and takes no pride in his team. Third, MLB and MLBPA did absolutely nothing to help the game in the CBA. Small market teams got no help and young players got no help Aside from a few big market teams and 1% of the ultra rich players everyone else got screwed. I wonder how popular the sport will be when it’s down to 10 real teams .And lastly as a Pirate fan for 60 plus years I think the fans at the very least deserve some excitement in the product they put on the field. So what if Cruz is not 100% ready. He is one of the 3 or 4 best and most exciting players in the organization. At least if you are going to lose a bunch let it be exciting. really who wants to watch Newman ground out weakly to second base three or four times a game.. Pittsburgh put the young guys out there for the fans to enjoy before you sell them off in a few years . It’s the least us loyal fans deserve before we die.
Steel-The Pirates would be stupid to have Cruz start in the majors this year for all of the reasons that have been set forth in this column.
Fans are certainly an important part of the equation and their sentiments should be taken into account,but thankfully,professionals run the team
I find it hard to believe that there’s 20 something players for Pittsburgh that are better than Cruz.
“If Cruz reaches that upside, getting a seventh year of club control would be incredibly valuable for the Pirates” I had to laugh at this comment since his arbitration salary will be too high for them to keep him this long unless there is a change of ownership.
The value would still be there. The A’s are rebuilding and getting good returns for their guys with an extra of control.
Parj-If Cruz becomes that good,or great,Nutting would not be stupid enough to let him go just because of the high value of his arbitration awards.
As a small market team my guess is these type of players would be traded because they only have one or two years of control left.
The timing could be made depending on how good the team is and what they could get for him.
Such is the case of the small market team.
Blame it on MLB.
Very few of these teams give long term contracts.Votto got one.Yelich got one.I think that the Pirates perhaps would give Reynolds one of he stays playing good baseball and they need him to win.But those deals are a crapshoot even with that good of a player.