APRIL 7: In a press conference this afternoon, Bogaerts made clear that negotiations on a contract extension have stalled and that he doesn’t intend to sign a new deal before tomorrow’s opener in New York (first reported by Chris Cotillo of MassLive; Twitter link). Asked whether he would agree to an extension, he replied simply: “No.” Asked subsequently whether an offer was made, he responded, “Yeah. But it didn’t work out, and we’ll see how it goes from there.”
The shortstop also appeared to rule out the possibility of in-season negotiation, adding, “I can’t do nothing about it right now. I’ve got a season coming up in front of me and I don’t want to put any of our teammates in that type of distraction. They don’t deserve it. We had time to get something done. It didn’t work out.”
As noted below, Bogaerts can opt out of the three years and $60MM that remain on his contract at the end of the 2022 season. He’d be entering a potentially crowded shortstop market that will likely include Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, Elvis Andrus, and Didi Gregorius, as well as Carlos Correa should he (as expected) opt out of the final two years of his deal with the Twins. He’d nonetheless be a near-certainty to top his remaining guarantee so long as he remains healthy and maintains his recent production.
APRIL 6: Red Sox star third baseman Rafael Devers recently rejected an extension offer from the team, reports Héctor Gómez of Z101 (Twitter link). Gómez adds that Boston’s offer to Devers topped the $124MM deal José Ramírez signed with the Guardians. Further specifics of the offer aren’t known, but Chris Cotillo of MassLive characterizes the sides as being “very far” apart.
Both Gómez and Cotillo suggest it’s unlikely there’ll be any more discussions before the Red Sox open the season on Friday against the Yankees. Devers has previously suggested he won’t entertain an extension in-season. That seemingly sets him up to play out this season on an $11.2MM salary, to which he and the Sox agreed last month to avoid an arbitration hearing.
It stands to reason the Boston front office will take a crack at extending Devers next winter, at the very least. He’s controllable via arbitration for another season beyond this one. By next offseason, the reigning AL Silver Slugger at third base will have banked over $16MM in career earnings. Barring a significant injury, he’ll be in line for a rather notable raise on this season’s salary during his final arbitration year before hitting free agency in advance of his age-27 campaign.
That’s all to say Devers has little pressure to accept a significant discount. The Red Sox certainly won’t put forth a market-value offer two years in advance of free agency, but keeping him in the fold long-term would require one of the biggest investments in the history of that service bucket. The Braves signed first baseman Matt Olson — who also has four-plus service years — to an eight-year, $168MM extension last month. Only Joey Votto (ten years, $225MM) and Giancarlo Stanton (13 years, $325MM) have topped Olson’s deal among players with between four and five years of service.
Olson was projected for a $12MM arbitration salary before signing his extension, not too dissimilar from Devers’ current mark. He and Devers have family similar numbers going back three seasons. Olson owns a .257/.354/.522 line since the start of 2019; Devers is a .290/.350/.537 hitter in that time. The latter hits for a better average, while Olson draws significantly more walks. Olson has been 34 percentage points above average by measure of wRC+, while Devers checks in 29 points above par.
Obviously, Olson and Devers don’t make for an apples-to-apples comparison. Devers plays a more demanding position, but he rates as one of the league’s worst defensive third basemen. Olson plays at the position furthest down the defensive spectrum, but he’s perhaps the game’s best gloveman at first base. One could argue that Olson’s the more valuable all-around player, but Devers is two and a half years younger. Devers’ camp at Rep 1 Baseball may argue for a deal that exceeds Olson’s in length and overall guarantee, making it unsurprising that “merely” topping the $124MM guaranteed to Ramírez wouldn’t be sufficient. (To be clear, it’s unknown how close the Red Sox’s offer to Devers was to Ramírez’s number).
Regardless of whether Boston and Devers eventually work something out long-term, he’ll be around for the next two seasons. That’s not necessarily the case for shortstop Xander Bogaerts, who can opt out of the remaining three years and $60MM on his deal after this season. Alex Speier of the Boston Globe spoke with Boagerts on Monday. The star shortstop told Speier he and the club have had talks this spring but said he didn’t anticipate an extension being hammered out in the coming days. Like Devers, Bogaerts suggested he was uninterested in continuing negotiations once the season was underway.
Bogaerts would hit the open market in advance of his age-30 season and seems likely to handily top $60MM barring an unexpected downturn in performance or injury. The Sox added an All-Star potential alternative last month when they signed Trevor Story to a six-year, $140MM deal. The longtime Rockie agreed to play second base this season in deference to Boagerts. Boston could keep him at the keystone if they get a long-term deal with Bogaerts done, but Story could also kick back to his old position in 2023 if the Sox’s incumbent shortstop heads elsewhere.
Good to see an offer was finally made. I don’t blame the Sox for not offering crazy money so early, obviously extensions such as Tatis Jr have looked ugly thus far. Hopefully next offseason Bloom can get a deal done to keep Devers longterm. It’s a tricky situation as not many project Devers to be a third baseman in 3-4 years unless he shows tremendous improvement in the near future.
Fever, the longer term deal starting before free agency is meant to give more money now but lower the AAV. It’s a question of will the team sign everyone or is it more likely first to work out a deal leaves the other without a chair. The first seat filled should be Eovaldi. Also, I laugh when read players won’t negotiate during a season. While a few may truly be effected by such thoughts, most try to use it as leverage through the advice of their agent. Deals can still happen any time.
dewey – I completely agree on the AAV as a benefit to signing early and longterm, and for certain players I’d be all for it. The only reason I’m not right now is because Devers shouldn’t be valued as a 3B at the moment.
On the chairs, totally agree they should be attempting to re-sign Eovaldi now. He has performed exceptionally well, especially against divisional rivals such as the Yankees and in the postseason.
Do you think it’s a matter of Devers or Xander? If one signs first, the other will be gone? I love them both, but I think Xander’s unwillingness to move off SS will be the deciding factor in him leaving. I haven’t heard any comments from Devers regarding his feelings on a possible move off 3B, but I think he did say something like “they don’t want to pay” in reference to the departures of Mookie and ERod. I don’t think there’s much chance of Devers giving a hometown discount like JRam just did.
Yes deals can happen at any time, but I think it depends on how much progress was made during the offseason or All-Star break. If the two sides are close on the eve of the season opener, they will finish. Or if the team blows them away with an offer midseason, they will take it. But if the player receives an unsatisfactory offer during the season, I can understand why they wouldn’t continue to negotiate at that time. The game is too physically and mentally demanding during the season to devote time negotiating.
It’s not in my view a discount. Ramirez is a two way player whereas to date Devers is not. Devers will get more years due to his young age but I truly don’t see ANY team paying him a Stanton type deal. He’ll have to choose years or AAV. I also really feel both Devers and Bogaerts want to remain. it just might not be realistic. Story was signed as a good hedge. If Bogie re-ups, I’m thinking he will then flip positions or move to third if JDM leaves after this year. A blockbuster trade for pitching could also be done now that there seems to be excess talent. Boston will spend, they just I don’t believe match Cohen or the Dodgers. That said, winning changes things. Those teams needed to spend (many don’t consider 2020 a real championship). The Sox spent and delivered four championships. They reset their taxes and rebuilt the team in basically one year. Kudos to Bloom. I was against firing DD but truthfully, I’m very happy with the way Bloom has bridged things and made the future so promising. Most on this site chuckled when Yorke was drafted. Now, he’s seen as another Pedroia. How many wanted the team to replace Pedie one month into his career when he seemed overwhelmed? Yorke hopefully pans out the same way…
dewey..: If either of them truly WANT to stay in Boston it’s relatively simple. All they have to do is (A) check their pride & leave it at the door, (B) don’t chase every dollar. It’s really that simple. How many MILLIONS of dollars is enough?
Or maybe the team could up their offer too…It’s ridiculous that it’s only incumbent upon players to lower their demands when an ownership in a large market team with tons of resources and cash rather than ownership. one could easily say why can’t ownership check it’s pride and increase their price instead of trying to squeeze every dollar out of their players. How many millions of dollars in profit is enough for ownership?
dewey – I’m still not sure what you mean by saying JRam didn’t give a discount. It’s unanimous around the baseball world he accepted an offer that was well below market value. Based on what both Devers and Xander have said over the past few years, I highly doubt either will give a similar discount.
It’s not about just the money, Bloom has gone on record as saying he will improve the defense. I just don’t see them keeping a GG-caliber SS at 2B for more than a year, and I agree Yorke could take over 2B which means having to move Story.
Speaking of DD, I’m very happy that the Original DD (Dan Duquette) is being inducted in the Sox HOF. After building a winner in Montreal, he built a winner in Boston. It’s too bad he wasn’t allowed to stick around long enough to enjoy it.
It’s a tricky situation as not many project Devers to be a third baseman in 3-4 years
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I agree. It’s tricky bordering on unique. There are very few players his age that are that bat-first and glove-last as Devers. If he’s a DH, he has a whole different price-point.
Joe – I agree. I think he’d be more willing to try out 1B instead of DH, but then what happens to Casas. If Dalbec blossoms this year I would certainly give him a long look at 3B should Devers move, he has the experience there.
I disagree that there are few players his age so bat first glove last. It’s more that other teams aren’t willing to eat the terrible defense and just move those guys down the spectrum hence why Vladdy is already a 1B.
No matter when he signs the contract is going to reflect both his hitting and defensive ability.
Vlad might play 1B, but don’t confuse him with a real firstbaseman.
I think Devers sees himself as a third baseman long term and his defensive stats say otherwise so there is probably going to be some disconnect especially if Boston values him as a third baseman.
Ed Gein concurs, Devers is a butcher.
Check his lamp shades
Devers can hit, but is a butcher in the field
Does he think he is worth more
He will get more than 200M!
And everyone said Correa would easily clear more than $300M. If he’s not an object lesson for these younger guys, especially one-way players, they’re not paying attention. But, yes, he may clear $200M. Or maybe he just hates Boston, I know I do!
Lefty: I disagree with you. What you said is an insult to butchers all across America. There is no word aptly describing his….defense.
Correa didn’t sign a mega deal because boras is greedy and wouldn’t get the full commission. If Correa is healthy and puts up his career norms he’s getting a Seager like deal next year.
I visit Boston quite a few times a year. It’s not a shthole like NY.
Yes Yankee clipper there is ANDUJAR!
Butch – I would not live in New York City if someone paid me $1,000,000,000. It is an expensive shthole. Lol lol lol
Carlos inflated ego cost him money. Tigers offered him 10 years 275 million & he said no. Even if he stays healthy & has a great year, he’s not going to replace that money. By turning that money down, Tigers were able to get 3 other players so I am happy with Baez & his 160 million.
JC#1, I wouldn’t live there if I were you either. Any grown man using three consecutive LoL’s wouldn’t survive there…
The fact that Texas overpaid and then Detroit got into the game tells at least me something. Outside of a couple of free spending teams, many will have to go to rebuilding teams because competing teams won’t continue to spend. While the taxes are beneficial, you couldn’t get me to live in Texas for example. Just too hot in the summer.
You mean play about 110 games and less than 30hr and less than 100 rbi?
JC–No one there would pay you a penny. However, if you were to move there, people would pay you a lot to move away.
Drag-that is all you could come up with. You are too lame to live there!
Pauley- maybe you need to travel more to see that NY really is a shthole.
Hey Clipper,rumor has it there`s no love lost between Astros players and N.Y. either.no?
Yes he does, because he is.
You know, I like Devers as a hitter, but he is otherwise a third baseman who will be a DH in two years, tops. He is not worth more money than Jose Ramirez.
Jose was grossly underpaid his entire career versus other players with big salaries.
Have to agree. If Ramirez had desired it he could have earned well north of $200 million.
At least he stays on a team without demanding more when he know he could. But that’s loyalty to the team which most players nowadays don’t.
Man!! That kind of money at such young age and reject it? Good luck, these guys think they are Superman and they will always be the same, unbeatable, only time will tell..
He’s already going to have 11 million in the bank he’s got generational wealth he can afford to gamble.
It was a first offer. Let’s see what develops.
Obviously you don’t take the first offer. You’d be a bad businessman.
Flashbacks to Mookie. Watch the Dodgers somehow trade or sign him too ffs.
Minor- agreed! The Dodgers will have Mookie lead off the Devers batting 2nd.
Just as Justin Turners time is up, Devers gets closer to free agency. Weird how this always works out for LA. But hey, “built”
He’s a great hitter but while the Dodgers will spend short term, they are not signing a one dimensional player long term.
Freddie Freeman begs to differ
He is no where near as good as Ramirez, so comparing his situation to the Ramirez contract just makes a potential Devers contract look like a massive overpay right off the bat.
He’ll be a first basemen by 2023
He’ll be a DH by 2024
Comparing Devers to any player who can use his glove even moderately well is unfair. Devers is one dimensional and his stats prove it. His value should be priced at the level you would pay a DH. JD commanded $22MM several years back with far better stats than Devers as a DH. Giving Devers half of what Ramirez is getting seems very fair. Why? Because Ramirez is an excellent defender, base stealer, and has proven his power for more seasons than Devers.
HR Comparison – Similar
Ramirez – 39, 23, 17 and 36 (2018-2021)
Devers – 21. 32. 11 and 38 (note the even year vs odd year disparity)
TRIPLES Comparison – Hands down Ramirez is far better
Devers – 0, 4, 1, 1
Ramirez – 4, 3, 1, 5
DOUBLES Comparison – Similar
Ramirez – 38, 33, 16, 32
Devers – 24, 54, 16, 37
STOLEN BASES comparison – Hands down Ramirez is far better
Devers – 5, 8, 0, 5
Ramirez – 34, 24, 10, 27
OPS+ Comparison – Hands down Ramirez is far better
Ramirez – 151, 106, 168, 141 (three star seasons and one league average season)
Devers – 94, 132, 107, 132 (two league average years and two good years)
Defense Comparison – Even league average fielders blow away Devers!!
Devers – .938 Fielding Percentage (way below league average) 82 errors
Ramirez – .958 Fielding Percentage (league average) 46 errors
Ramirez blows away Devers on offense AND defense!
Devers deserves Ramirez’ AAV divided by 2!
After reading your post I feel like he is more of a non tender candidate than extension.
Dumbest comment I’ve ever seen on this site, lmao!
Phillip, never read a themed comment?
@ KD-17 – You can’t use the Ramirez contract to establish Devers’ market value. Ramirez willingly took a significant below market deal to stay in Cleveland with the team he loves. Very few players do this. Plus, he still has two years of control left, meaning he’ll be 32 by the time his new contract kicks in. Devers is over five years younger than Ramirez right now (25) and is set to become a free agent at age 27. Devers has to be looking for at least an 8 year term if not 10. All signs point to Devers having a monster season this year so he is betting on himself. Some ‘experts’ are predicting a 40 HR, 50 double season out of him, which would put him square in the MVP race. While Devers’ fielding percentage at 3B is bad, a lot of his errors are mental mistakes; bad throws or taking his eye off the ball. He can pick the ball with the best of them at 3B and he usually makes at least one spectacular play per game. He just needs to stay focused for the full game and his fielding percentage will approve greatly.
For a big guy, he’s very flexible too so a move to first base in 3-4 years is not out of the question. He’d have a great stretch at 1B and would still have an above-average fielding glove over there too. If Devers has the monster season some are predicting this year, he’ll be looking for $30M+ per season and some team will be willing to pay it. If Boagerts walks at the end of this season, Boston will basically have no choice but to extend him. I’d say his total contract value will be a minimum of $250M and he could quite possibly fetch $300M when it’s all said and done. In this market, he’ll be worth every penny. He is a top 5 hitter in baseball right now and he’s just entering his prime. I don’t blame him one bit for betting on himself and looking for a mega-deal once he hits free agency.
Did you just seriously say with a straight face that Devers is a top 5 hitter in baseball right now?
Devers a Top 5 hitter in baseball? WOW the personification of homerism.
He might not be top 25
Top 5 hitter in MLB is pouring it on a little thick, but he’s a very good hitter.
Most definitely top 10. Could easily be top 5. As Dorothy pointed out, the problem with Devers on defense isn’t range or difficult plays. He makes those with regularity. Almost all of his errors are mental mistakes on routine plays. Some team is going to be willing to give him a minimum of 275. Whether it’s the Red Sox or not is yet to be determined but he will easily double Ramirez’s contract. Good for JRam taking enough money to play where he wants, but he could have earned a ton more on the open market. If Devers wants to maximize his earnings, which he clearly does, that’s fine too.
Go ahead and make the argument that he’s a top 10. If you convince me, I’ll send you a case of your favorite brewski.
it’s because KD’s argument like aways makes zero sense. Notice how every time Devers was clearly better than Ramirez he lists the comparison as similar. Also saying that Ramirez has more proven power is ridiculous. Further there is no account of the age difference amongst the players which is pretty significant. f
One big thing is missed. Both Ramirez and Devers love playing where they are. While their personalities suggest they can perform anywhere, it’s not a given. Boston is a tough place to play as are Philly and NY. Fans in the northeast have expectations and demands that can eat up certain players.
Big difference is Devers is only 25 and appears to be getting better and better offensively at 25 at 25 JDM was getting released by Houston.
Devers can flat out hit and seems to be improving all the time. I think he finds another get to the absolute elite as an offensive player his K rate is dropping his walk rate is going and his hard hit rate is increasing all things portend to an elite hitter in the future.
Bruin1012 – Don’t we really need to see Devers hit during a year that is even? A pattern is a pattern and after four seasons he has two good and two not so good. This is a not so good season so if he does good I’ll feel a lot more comfortable thinking he can do it every year.
That’s nice, but why not compare Ramirez and Devers at the same ages? It’s much closer if you do it that way.
Because he knows that won’t prove his illogical point and expose yet again that his argument has no merit.
Because baseball gets evaluated at a point in time and evaluations are based on facts produced by the players. No hypotheticals here. Facts are all that matter so age is irrelevant. The contract is for prime years for both players. Devers is more likely to “blow up” from a size perspective so he carries risk that Ramirez doesn’t carry.
Nobody in their right mind would evaluate Devers equal to Ramirez at this point in history. That’s what contracts are based on.
He’s using fielding percentage, lol!!!!!
And triples!
Hammerin – You must be one of those ignorant suns of a beaches who thinks the binary result of out and safe don’t matter in baseball. That’s pure ignorance. No contrived numbers in fielding percentage just facts. Go take a lesson in stats and come back and we can talk after you are a lot smarter.
Devers needs to be moved off 3B but he’s not a great fit at 1B either. He’s a better fit at DH. Red Sox are waiting for Martinez to leave before moving Devers. Then, they can move Dalbec over and bring Casas up to 1B
lets not COMPLETELY mess this up like you did with jon lester, seeing him win the WS with the cubs was disgusting, dont me wrong, im glad they won, he just never, ever should of been traded.
I of a feeling they will mess it up.
At Devers’ age, he’s gonna be looking for at least a 9 year deal if he signs an extension. He wouldn’t want to give up an awkward amount of free agent years and dollars only to find himself back on the market at a bad age to be trying to get a new long term deal, while right now he’s in a perfect position to get a mega contract and be seen as a good value because of his age.
I think 9 years/$255M would get it done.
But I think the Red Sox offered him like 6 years/$130M.
7 years & 160 million SOLD!
It was just a first offer.
however i will say this about devers, hes a terrible defensive 3rd baseman, great hitter, but a very below average to bad defender, i believe last year or 2020 he led the league in errors, i wont be that upset if hes traded, just get AMAZING prospects for him, atleast 4. Like i see them offering 1 contract and letting him decide,
hes not worth overpaying.
xander is.
Devers is 26 and carries a major impact bat that may not even be at peak yet. Any offer from Boston would certainly have to exceed the $124M Ramirez accepted today by a good amount. A slight home-town discount is always possible, but the total dollar value of any deal he signs at his age will have to start with a 2 not a 1. The Red Sox may not offer a full market rate now, but history also shows that if a player gets to within one year of free agency, discounts rarely happen. It will take full market value, as we’ll likely see with Judge. So if I’m in the Red Sox front office and I want to keep Devers, I may not offer full market, but I’d come close to try and get some discount. They’ll be none a year on. Unlike Xander, who I think is basically a product of Fenway, Devers bat will play elsewhere.
Isn’t he 25?
You’re right. Doesn’t turn 26 until after the season is over. Whichever team signs him, if it’s not the Red Sox, they will have him from his age-27 season forward. In a game that values youth, it’s another reason why he’s going to be expensive.
RobM – Start with years. If the years are the same as Ramirez his AAV should be half that of Ramirez because his contribution is roughly that. His age is irrelevant from the contract standpoint. Who cares how old he is when his 5 years are up? All that matters is the 5 years were worth it. Devers cares about age because it’s his leverage but off setting that leverage is his complete inability to play the field at any position. Also, his body and risk of weight gain is very high compared to Ramirez and alternative 3Bs who can field but may hit less.
Boston should only sign him to play DH or trade him. His asking price to play DH is way too high especially after letting go a guy like Mookie at a fair asking price. Anything over 5 years would be as absurd as signing him to play 3B.
You comments about Bogaerts and Devers didn’t include why you think Devers plays anywhere and Bogey doesn’t. I think you have it backwards. Bogey can play anywhere but Devers needs to play with a coddling manager like Cora because he emotionally immature. That doesn’t travel well.
All players deserve a fair market value offer but in Devers case it needs to be a fair market price for a DH who adds no value in the field and doesn’t run particularly well so his offense is one-sided just like his overall play. He’s a masher DH with a .280 average. Remember back to 2018, we paid $22MM for a masher with a .300-.330 average. There is your comp. Put 7% inflation on top of JD’s pay from 2018!! If he doesn’t stipulate he will move to DH without any issues you walk from the table and deal him for an outfielder who can play CF and lead off so Kiki goes to the 9 hole.
we arent gonna hand out anymore 300 million dollar contracts,
sandoval, price, hanley ramirez, sale
nope! sry not again, i dont care who they sign, unless babe ruth comes back to life.
Boston has never handed out a $300M contract to anyone, but if they do, Devers might be the guy who gets it. Devers is going to have a monster season this year and should continue to improve at the plate for the next 4-5 seasons. A little more concentration at 3B and he’ll remain there until age 31 or 32. He has the glove, range and arm to remain there. He just needs to stay focused on the routine plays. That’s where he tends to make most of his mistakes (mostly mental ones).
Exactly. His mistakes are mental which can be overcome, especially as he matures. Wade Boggs wasn’t a good defender but he worked at it and became a Gold Glover. There’s no reason to believe that Devers can’t do the same.
No one is paying $300m unless he first establishes himself as at least competent in the field. Bogaerts gets nailed for his defense when he’s had Devers at third and a rotation of players at second. Bogie is better than others state with the glove. Not the best but certainly not the worst
just ask why did houston let correa go?
NOBODYS worth overpaying, period.
Guess the Dodgers will need a guy for third or the Yankees in 2023.
Wow, that would be great. Every time we play them all you have to do is hit the ball down third base and you’ll get on with a hit because most of errors get scored hits.
he would actually do great as a dodger, full time DH
Don’t kid yourself. Freedman is not tying up a DH with one person.
Devers for Judge.
Story to 3B,Bogarts gets an extension.
Judge would tattoo the Monster.
Actually in that scenario Dalbec would go to third it’s only a matter of time before Casas mans first in Fenway.
Actually DAVE FROST that’s an outstanding suggestion as is because Story is wasted at 2B when you have a mediocre hitter playing center field who should be playing 2B. Move Verdugo the superstar to CF put Judge in right field and bat him 2nd behind Story. The top of the order looks just as good, you have much, much better defense and the costs won’t be that much different if Devers has his way. Casas can split time with Dalbec as 1B/DH. That way if an injury happens you are covered. Then, over time have Duran take over CF and send Verdugo back to LF until his control years are up.
Verdugo the superstar??? LMAO he’s average at best.
Who would have to be drunker to do that deal; Chaim Bloom or Brian Cashman?
Bloom but it wouldn’t matter because a deranged but from the Bronx would grease the Stamford building next November if that deal was done.
id never want us to get judge,
good player but hes the same as trout, hes ALWAYS hurt, the yankees are stuck with him and stanton, no championships and a whole lot of regret, i dont like devers, but atleast he doesnt always pretend to be hurt to miss games, like ill watch us play the yankees and 1 or both is always out, im like ‘god, judge is hurt again?’ like dude, either stop getting hurt or just find a new career, your hurting the team by missing so much time.
I understand homerism, and why a Red Sox fan would dis Judge, but the guy did have 6 BWAR and an OPS+ of 149 last year, finished 4th in MVP voting, and if you couldn’t make room on your team for a “stiff” like that, well…OK.
Trputvos always hurt now??? Didnt notice.
Calling Trout always hurt is blasphemous. You’re ignoring several years of basically injury free baseball. He’s been hurt a lot recently, but I think it will take at least 1 more season of missing significant time to get the injury prone tag.
But why? He’s not even good looking.
Devers will leave. The Red Sox have a poor track record of extending players and Bloom is a cheapskate.
Bloom is a cheapskate.
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It’s not Bloom’s money, you nimrod. Henry creates the budget, and Bloom spends it as he see fits.
Imagine thinking the GM controls the budget. Happens all the time with Dodgers fans too.
Imagine hiring a guy who sits in the chair and is an order taker for that much money!! It happens all the time with fans that are clueless about how a front office works. APPROVAL is the owner ROLE. DEAL MAKING is the GM role. Can’t be considered a cheapskate owner if the GM proposes nothing.
You are basically suggesting the Red Sox function like the Dallas Cowboys and Bloom is a figurehead not the guy who is supposed to use his in depth baseball knowledge to work out deals with other GMs and then get approval from the owners.
If Devers has another season like last year that asking price skyrockets. A down year and he at least has another year of team control before either regretting his decision or cashing in big time
Rsox – True and it will be fun to see what Devers is made of. Will he have a big year during a critical negotiation year or will he have another bad luck even numbered year when his skills are not shown off hitting. 2018 and 2020 were bad years. If he does it again, it will hurt his bank account. He needs to prove he isn’t an every other year guy on offense and he needs to accept that his glove has no value only his bat does!!
That every other year garbage is a simpleton’s viewpoint. 2020 shouldn’t be used to prove any points, it’s absurd. Just like you constantly saying he’s going to blow up body wise and that he’s going to remain immature. You or anyone else has any way of knowing that.
If Corey Seager is worth what he got then Devers is worth more. Defense is the most overrated thing in baseball. It’s not like this guy is costing Boston wins at third base. He’s 24 years old and is one of the ten best hitters in the sport and is always on the field. Wander Franco just got paid more than Boston offered this kid and Devers is far superior to Franco and 100% proven. I see fans questioning whether he thinks he’s worth more and to them I say where were you when the Rangers vastly overpaid for Seager? How about Correa getting $35 million per, where were all of you then clutching your pearls? But now all of a sudden a guy who actually produces bigger and better than both of them is causing everyone to gasp when he turns down $125 or so million? People wanna see guys get paid well Boston welcome to the MLB $hit $how, to you I say taste the pain.
Where do you get the $125 figure? I’m guessing they offered a lot more than that. Even if they offered 175 Devers would and should turn that down in a heartbeat. He is going to clear 250 easy.
Mystery Team – You are all over the board with your comment. First you obviously didn’t pitch since your knowledge of how badly a pitching staff gets hurt by a guy like Devers is non-existent. He costs Boston not just in wins but in wear and tear on the pitching staff. His misplays lead to more pitches which taxes the pitchers, ruins their numbers which are the basis of their pay and changes relaxing innings into stressful innings lower the length of a starters contribution. His errors have a huge impact and it’s not just in wins and losses.
Wander Franco can’t be compared to Devers for several reasons:
1 – Franco is elite as a hitter and fielder and Devers is a hitter only
2 – Franco just turned 21 and Devers is 26 in October so they are far apart in their control years. Devers is in his 5th of 6 and Franco is in his 1st. The pay associated with where you are in your control years varies greatly.
3 – Franco’s skills are more than Devers could ever dream of. By Devers age Franco will be the face of baseball and by then Devers will be a pudgy DH with huge hot and cold streaks but NO ERRORS which will be a huge relief to whatever team has him at that time..
4 – Franco at 21 is far more mature as a player and an individual.
As far as comparing him to all-stars like Seager or Correa, you can’t because they can field. The pay scale for a DH is much less than that of an all-star SS. For Devers to even THINK he’s in their pay bracket is pure stupidity. He is basically where JD was 4 years ago except he’s not as good. JD hit for a higher average, produced more runs and hit 45 HRs in 2017 before coming to Boston. Last year Devers hit roughly 25 points lower in average, had roughly 10 less home runs and even his OBP was roughly 25 points lower. Devers OPS+ last year was 132 whereas JD’s was 168 in 2017.
So JD got $22MM per year four years ago with better numbers than Devers in 2021. That should be the comp that the Red Sox use to evaluate what to pay Devers. Also, Devers weight issues offset the age differential between the two players. JD would still be producing 100/35/100 if Cora didn’t move him to the 5 hole. His skills did not erode during his time in Boston. I am not confident that Devers won’t since he’s immature and could very easily go the route of so many previous big framed players who moved to DH. This list is long. Panda always comes to mind first for me. We all know how Panda’s contract worked out.
Trade him and lower risk of a bad contract, improve the infield immediately since he makes 1/4 of all errors by the Red Sox, and make room for Story to play a position he will be most effective at creating great things for the pitching staff who emphasizes ground ball outs. The team would be far better off without him especially if it means an upgrade at CF, CL or SP.
Yeah a guy who shows up in his first year driving a Rolls Royce shows a lot of maturity.
It says a lot when you point out that Tatis is 21 now and that Devers will be 26 in October. You’re basically stealing a year from Devers.
Red Sox have the money to keep and pay for whomever they want, But they also have the business head to trade (for good value) anyone on the team., just as they did with Betts. I don’t think Devers is such a transcendent star that they will just open the vault for him.
It just gives the BoSox more time to seriously develop or scout their eventual 3B.
The have Alex Binelas and Blaze Jordan. If Bogaerts stays someone has to change positions when Mayer is ready (especially if Yorke is ready at the same time at 2B)
Dalbec is an excellent 3b.
Rsox – Binelas so far has proven to be the second coming of Devers on defense so if he starts clobbering the ball they should package him to get something they need because they are knee deep in DHs. Jordan is so young it’s too early to tell. He might turn out to be the long term answer in LF.
Right now Story has a great glove and a strong arm to play 3B. His injuries are behind him so playing 3B would be a HUGE HUGE upgrade over Devers and it would immediately improve Bogaerts metrics since he wouldn’t have a numbskull cutting off balls he shouldn’t even consider cutting off. Put Kiki at 2B until Mayer and/or Yorke make it to the bigs. Then you have a great problem because you have unprecedented depth up the middle.
If they bump Bogey $3MM per year for the remainder of his contract to eliminate opt outs then Mayer can fully develop before being promoted. Depending on the success of Yorke, Yorke is the logical replacement for Kiki at 2B. Without Devers you have Dalbec/Casas as the 1B/DH combo for the next decade. Pairing them reduces the impact of injuries. Having Mayer/Bogey/Yorke at some point 3 years from now is also great depth.
Things on offense look outstanding in the future thanks to Story FIXING the problem at 3B. The pitching needs will include extending Eovaldi and hopefully Houck and Pivetta remain strong going forward. Really need a young closer with some serious heat and a nasty change-up so the catcher can not have to focus on bounced curves like they do now late in games.
He’s a really good hitter, but he’s not the type of player I’m dying to give 7-10 extra years to. Players that rely on their bat for all their value can become bad contracts very fast.
Devers has every right to explore free agency. Taking a play out of the Mookie book. The sides are far apart, that should come as no surprise to anyone. Devers has steadfastly maintained that he wants to be paid. The negotiations for his future service has just begun. There will not be a home town discount. He’s betting on himself, which no one can fault. at least each side can gauge the other’s start point.
If Bogaerts & Devers are not extended I foresee pandemonium…
There is an annual pilgrimage to the Tobin Bridge every fall. It starts on November 1st, and ends on March 31, Tons of fans muttering 0-162, 0-162….
I wonder if Devers and Bogaerts would take slightly less money based on the Sox’ willingness to sign both.
I think Bogaerts leaves and they’ll extend Devers.
Are you basing that on all of Bloom’s mistakes so far or you just like Devers?
Devers will not take less money. He doesn’t want to be compared to other players. He wants to be amongst the highest paid in the game.
Bowgarts seems like he kinda has an attitude. I can’t do nothing !!
If Devers wants to make 30 million a year then he is going to have to show he can defensively play at third base as a 30 million a year player. Right now at this point he is a DH he hasn’t shown anything to make the Red Sox brass think any differently. If Devers wants the big bucks he is going to have to improve defensively at third as well as continue to improve offensively. I think the offensive thing is a given he is just getting better and better but to get the payday he wants from any team he is going to have to prove he belongs at third.
I think having both under control for 2022 (and Devers for 2023) impacts offers at this stage, because there is unfortunately a > 0% chance that a significant injury occurs during a year they already control the player for, which alters the player’s career trajectory. A front office has to factor in an extra year/error bar of downside, that they will not have to factor in at the conclusion of the walk season. In other words, paying more for years already controlled puts downward pressure on the total guarantee beyond the current term.
I know, they don’t want to negotiate during the season. If the Sox came up with enough money, both Xander and Devers would step out of the batter’s box, with a full count, in the 9th inning, and the bases loaded, tomorrow afternoon, and sign. Like they care who wins or loses.
Xander’s been under=rated for a while now; and even if his defense continues to erode (and it has) I’d make him the priority. The best comment on this board was that Devers should be priced as a DH; that’s what he is. And while you might never completely replace his offensive skills, you (especially with a team with the wherewithal of the Sox) can come awfully close.
Agree that if they blew them out of the water they would gladly sign a deal mid-season. They don’t want back and forth negotiations getting talked about in the media all the time, but that’s not the same as just signing a monster deal.
Bobtillman – perfectly stated!
Bobtillman – I love what you write so I hate to contradict anything but 2021 was Bogey’s best fielding since 2015!!! The less aggressive Devers is the more clean plays Bogey gets to improve both his old school defensive numbers and the new modern metrics which don’t account for overly aggressive bad fielders playing next to a player.
I keep wondering why Bloom is NOT dealing JD so the defense can get better immediately. If there is no intent to keep Devers, it makes a lot more sense that Bloom isn’t dealing JD.
I think we are on the same page when it comes to why the team making over $300MM in profit a year spent 2 1/2 years to finally contract an all-star after giving away their franchise player. Money should be insignificant to these guys based on how well they are doing. Also, I find it odd that we make deals that bring a very bad hitter like JBJ here for $9MM a year more for two years than Renfroe and yet hesitate to pay players fair market value. JBJ’s fair market value is probably $1MM per year since he can’t hit and there aren’t enough flyouts to justify much more than that. Heck, we over-paid for Kiki a .250 career hitter and in 2021 and his defense isn’t giving up many hits JBJ would have gotten to. So the great defense is spectacular to watch but the number of less balls caught with Kiki in CF versus JBJ can’t justify letting JBJ hit.
For me, as much as I like Story I would have preferred Starling Marte. The lead-off hitter that never got replaced after Mookie was given away. The speedy center fielder lead0ff man we so desperately need. Bloom is supposed to be genius at this stuff. Shouldn’t he be able to figure out for the same money he could have plugged a huge hole rather than getting a great SS who has to play out of position so you don’t hurt the feelings of the horrendous 3B?
We lack vision of the future or maybe it’s just that the binoculars are pointing toward the horizon instead of the water directly in front of us!!.
It won’t be shocking to see both leave via free agency. The long term play looks to be Story moves to SS next year, 3B when Mayer is ready for SS and Yorke for 2B. .
Maybe they deal Devers before he gets to FA. He has one more year of arbitration. If the Sox are out of it this year I can see them dealing him to get at least a couple of good prospects.
I always felt last year was a lucky accident for Bloom’s plan. I think he is going for the 2007 Red Sox design where you have a lot of home grown talent mixed with FAs. I just don’t see this team being good enough to win a World Series as situated.
I would have preferred a Bogaerts extension over signing Story personally. For one, Bogaerts is better suited for an eventual move to 3B, as he has the better arm. Story will likely be limited to either SS or 2B, and I don’t know how much of an upgrade he will really be offensively or defensively over the next 5-6 years. I’d rather roll the dice on Bogaerts because you know exactly what you’re going to get from him at this point, whereas I think there is more risk with Story going forward, especially offensively.
The other aspect of the Story signing that didn’t make a ton of sense to me is that the Sox are absolutely loaded with great infield prospects (Mayer, Casas, Yorke, Jordan, Downs if he can rebound, etc) and their pitching staff is the area that desperately needed to be upgraded this offseason… not so much the offense.
I’ve mostly been a fan of Chaim Bloom so far, but I’m not huge on this offseason for him. I would have kept Hunter Renfroe and spent the Story money on pitching (or extensions for one or both of Bogaerts and Devers)… But then again, what do I know?
This is why I think Bloom is sticking to his original rebuild plan and last year was a happy accident. He didn’t make any big moves. The Renfroe deal was deal a solid player to get a decent prospect.
I still think Bloom is aiming for 2024 for the team being a serious contender.
So with Story on board and Bogaerts uninterested in an extension and planning to opt out, will the Sox trade him by the deadline?
Sounds like another Mookie Betts “I don’t want to play in Boston” moment. Sayonara.
Mo Money, Mo problems.. Less Money, No Left side of the Infield.
You only have finite time playing this game, injuries can cut your career short. As a Red Sox fan I love Devers and Bogaerts and I don’t blame them trying to get paid. You control Devers for the next two years, Bogaerts can walk after this one. Bringing in Story feels like Bogaerts is on the trade market as I’d expect the team to do. I think you can trade Bogaerts, move Story to short and move Keke down to 2nd. The question for me becomes just how good does Duran look in AAA. If he’s tearing the cover off the baseball, Boston would be in position to trade Bogaerts. Defensively I don’t think the team would be losing anything. Offensively would be a step back but if Duran kills it in the minors this has to happen.
Kingbum – Why focus on Bogey when Devers is the center of all problems on the team? Trade Devers and so many issues go away. Story is a great 3B and would reduce total errors at 3B by at least 14 of the ones counted against Devers and another two dozen miscues that don’t count as errors.
Bogey and Story on the left side allows Sale to throw his low and inside pitches to right handed hitters and his sweeping low and outside pitches to lefty hitters without worry about Devers missing the ground ball produced.
Moving Story to 3B now would be like giving the pitching staff a new lease on life. The team would be tossing the life preserver to the sinking pitching staff!!
Bogey, to me, is a far more valuable asset than Devers will ever be.
I’ll deny saying this later, but I agree with KD on this one.
1-I think the fit is better with Bogaerts, and maybe a lot better. I think he’d slot in pretty well at 3B, and we don’t have any attractive 3B candidates. Dalbec maybe, but I am still waiting on his glove at 1B, let alone 3rd.
2-I don’t think Bogaerts breaks the bank. We could easily give him 6 years, and he’d only be 35 in the last season.
3-I think Bogaerts is more iconic than either Betts or Devers. Not better than Betts, but he seems like someone that wants to stay in Boston, and we need one of those “Red Sox lifers”.
4-We could actually get a good return for Devers next year. If we’re happy with Casas & Dalbec, which is always speculative, we could hand off 1B to Casas, move Story to SS, Bogaerts to 3rd, and let Dalbec DH, with reps at 1st & 3rd.
5-I think it is important to note that Devers is not yet a “great” hitter. For all the talk, Devers had an .890 last year, while JD provided an .867 (but for only $22M AAV) and Bogaerts provided an .863, but plays SS.
Devers is an intimidating hitter in a way JD and Bogaerts won’t be. But he also had a 143/62 K/W last year, which is less than impressive, is a poor baserunner, and a poor fielder. If it was me, I’d sign Bogaerts tomorrow, say all the right things about extending Devers, and then trade him to SD in the off-season.