With the demand for starting pitching at its annual peak, the Guardians are open to opportunistically dealing from their big league rotation, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports. Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale are the two names they’re most willing to consider, and Passan adds that while Cleveland will typically listen to offers for any player, the ask on top starter Shane Bieber would be “exorbitant.”
To be clear, Cleveland’s willingness to entertain offers on some controllable starters doesn’t by any means signal a white flag for the season. They’ve walked this fine line for years, dealing from deep and talented rotations to align with ownership’s payroll restrictions while leaning heavily on their uncanny ability to develop high-quality replacements. In the past three calendar years, we’ve seen Cleveland trade Corey Kluber, Trevor Bauer, Mike Clevinger and Carlos Carrasco — yet the Guardians still have a collective 4.05 rotation ERA and a trio of homegrown arms with ERAs of 3.75 or better.
The 27-year-old Plesac will be arbitration-eligible for the first time this winter and is controlled for three years beyond the current campaign. He’s made 18 starts and tallied 99 innings of 4.09 ERA ball, striking out a tepid 17% of his opponents against a more impressive 6.1% walk rate. Through 412 2/3 big league innings, he’s punched out 18.6% of the batters he’s faced, walked just 6.2% of them and kept 41.9% of batted balls against him on the ground — a bit shy of league average in that regard.
Plesac briefly looked as though he was blossoming into a more impactful starter with a strong run of eight starts in the shortened 2020 season, but he’s generally looked like a capable fourth starter outside that quick glimpse. There’s plenty of value in three-plus years of a solid mid- or back-of-the-rotation starter — particularly one who’s been durable. Plesac has been able to avoid any arm injuries of note to this point in his career, though the team couldn’t have been pleased last season when he broke his thumb while “aggressively ripping off his shirt” (manager Terry Francona’s words) following a poor start.
Civale, also 27, would be something of a buy-low candidate for other clubs. The right-hander looked to have cemented himself in Cleveland’s rotation after tossing 256 innings of 3.76 ERA ball from 2019-21, but he’s on the shelf right now with a wrist sprain and has had poor results when healthy enough to take the mound. Civale’s strikeout, walk and home-run rates are all right in line with his solid career averages, but he’s still sporting an ugly 6.17 ERA in 54 frames this season.
Part of those struggles stem from a bloated .350 average on balls in play — well higher than the career .275 mark he carried into the season. He’s also been hampered by a 59.1% strand rate that looks anomalous, particularly when compared to the 76.3% mark he posted from 2019-21. However, while those traits point to some poor luck, this season’s struggles can’t be blamed solely on those oddities. Civale is also yielding the highest average exit velocity, opponents’ barrel rate and opponents’ hard-hit rate of his career, and his already modest fastball is down from an average of 91.5 mph (2019-21) to 90.7 mph in 2022.
As with Plesac, Civale is controlled for three years beyond the current season. The Guardians might be selling at his value’s all-time low if they were to move him right now, which makes a deal somewhat tough to imagine. With a strong finish to the season and/or a strong first-half showing in 2023, Civale’s trade value would be considerably higher than it presently is. Then again, if the front office is bearish on his chances of a turnaround, now would arguably be the time to act.
The mere mention of Bieber’s name in anything trade-adjacent will surely excite fans of other clubs and lead to speculation, though it’s unlikely a trade involving the 2020 Cy Young winner will actually come together. Bieber’s average fastball has dipped from 94.3 mph in that 2020 peak to a pedestrian 91.9 mph in 2022, and advocates for a trade might feel that since he hasn’t matched that brilliant Cy Young form, the Guardians ought to sell high.
However, even with a lesser fastball, Bieber has pitched to a 3.37 ERA with a 28.5% strikeout rate and 6.9% walk rate in 208 1/3 innings since Opening Day 2021. Perhaps he’s not quite the dominant ace he appeared to be a couple years ago, but he’s still a well above-average starting pitcher with excellent command and at least average strikeout and ground-ball abilities.
It’s feasible, if not downright likely, that the always payroll-conscious Guardians eventually trade Bieber, as his salary will continue to climb throughout the arbitration process. He’s earning $6MM this season, could jump north of $10MM in 2023 and would receive another raise in 2024 before reaching free agency at the end of that season. They could always revisit a potential extension with the 27-year-old, hoping to pair him with the recently extended Jose Ramirez as a franchise cornerstone, but even if a long-term deal can’t be reached, a trade when Bieber is closer to free agency is likelier than a deal in the midst of a summer in which Cleveland finds itself just 2.5 games behind the division-leading Twins.
Given that proximity to the division lead, it’ll surely surprise many fans to hear that the Guardians are open to trading from the big league rotation at all. However, moving a starting pitcher like Plesac at peak value would allow them to further stockpile one of the best farm systems in the industry and/or add immediate Major League help at another position of need. With Konnor Pilkington holding his own in the big leagues so far, righty Peyton Battenfield touting a 3.32 ERA in 108 1/3 Triple-A frames, and a deep reservoir of pitching talent throughout its loaded farm system, Cleveland may feel it has the depth to weaken the back of its rotation. Speculatively, president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti could also pull off some sleight of hand by dealing Plesac for sizable prospect capital and/or big league help and then immediately replacing him with a rental (e.g. Jose Quintana) whose prospect cost would be lesser than that of the just-traded controllable starter.
With so many teams in the market for pitching, it’s only natural for the Guardians to listen to offers on some of their current starters. This is a page right out of the playbook from Antonetti and GM Mike Chernoff, and we’ve seen them execute similar scenarios nicely in the past. A trade of a Cleveland starter shouldn’t be considered a given, but looking at the names they’ve shipped out over the past few years, it also shouldn’t come as a shock, either.
DocBB
Plesac and Civale aren’t any good any more. 0.0bWAR and -1.2bWAR this year. There is a reason the Guardians are willing to deal them….
dixoncayne
What could you even get for them?
mj-2
This profile pic is offensive you bigot
hiflew
It’s possible for you to just mute him instead of throwing a fit.. Just a thought.
User 1413108128
Imagine a cartoon picture sets you off enough to call someone you have never met a bigot? Pretty weak and sad.
Samuel
Yes. And the cartoon was commissioned by the owner of the team that signed the first 2 black players in the American League.
The_M4N
There are no drama queens in baseball.
Loadinguser93
Don’t be woke
DocBB
Plesac and Civale aren’t any good any more. 0.0bWAR and -1.2bWAR this year. There is a reason the Guardians are willing to deal them….
hiflew
You can say that again.
Tito Schmito
I think he just did.
User 589131137
Also: Civales’s been hurt all year. Please pull your skit down.
User 3014224641
I would be surprised if Plesac is still on the roster next week. His hissy fit at Fenway where he hurled the ball over the 3rd base roof was reminiscent of Bauer, who was traded two days later.
cleveland_spider
Agreed. He hasn’t really materialized into a front rotation guy and his prima dona antics don’t help to endear himself to the club
User 589131137
And? Zach’s gotten 0 run support this year. He’s allowed to show frustration. Also, FYI, frustration doesn’t equal ego, but competitive nature. Tired of you losers and your grandpa’s POV of sports..
cleveland_spider
Listen sonny, throwing the ball out of the park, ranting like a spoiled baby on social media are NOT signs of competitiveness. Maybe buy your standards…
Tito Schmito
This is true. Tito likes milquetoast noncompetitive and/or Quad-A pushovers. It’s why he chokes in the postseason whenever his terrible in-game decisions aren’t preventing them from getting there in the first place.
He’d probably trade Naylor if he could.
geg42
Cleveland has proven wise to deal Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger, and Carrasco for many different reasons. They seem to know when to fold ‘em.
DocBB
All 3 of them are on clear downward trends. if u look at their stats.
JoeBrady
They seem to know when to fold ‘em.
================================
That’s part of the problem in any trade. The teams get to see every pitch, even their BP session. They know every ache and pain. When the Indians trade you, there is a chance that you have a problem.
BaseballClassic1985
Wow, the Indians are willing to trade Civale and his 6.17 ERA?? Who’da thunk?
dadofdonnydownvote
I’m surprised the Indians extended Jose Ramirez. They tend to cheap out and trade star players before big paydays.
cleveland_spider
Certainly not typical Dolan business. But Ramirez is certainly worth it and I guess this deal signals ownership wants to build around him. Would rather Jose than Lindor.
BigChiefWahoo
FYI Josey initiated the extension talks with Cleveland. Yes he took a lesser deal than Lindor would have even considered but he made it clear that he wanted to stay in Cleveland.
cleveland_spider
Credit to him then
BaseballClassic1985
The Indians are willing to trade Civale and his 6.17 ERA? Who’da thunk??
DocBB
Plesac and Civale aren’t any good any more. 0.0bWAR and -1.2bWAR this year. There is a reason the Guardians are willing to deal them….
Bieber is a shell of himself to. 3.55 ERA and 1.3 bWAR are not ace numbers. His K/9 is under 9 now and as over 14 2 years ago. Velo is down 4 MPH from 2 years ago too. Damaged goods.
Dange Will Robinson! Danger!! Teams wanting a true ACE should stick to Luis Castillo.
MyCommentIsBetter
Lol I’d take a 3.55 ERA any day. While he might be on the down trend, he’s still a quality arm worth a contenders look.
DocBB
Not sure he can win you a playoff game….that’s what matters right now. He got blown up in 2020 when he was still very good.
stymeedone
Until they are there, no one knows.
Tito Schmito
Oh I’m pretty certain it’s guaranteed postseason failure will be on the docket if they ever get back there. It’s a stone cold lead pipe lock based upon Tito’s miserable failures in the past.
Tito Francona is a choking machine, and I don’t just mean during nightly happy fun time with Baeryan Shaw. I hear the safe words are “Michael Martinez”.
Prospectnvstr
He’s also learning to be more of a complete pitcher than just a strikeout pitcher ala C.C. Sabathia.
myaccount2
Don’t see it happening. Given both’s team control, I feel this is only worth it to Cleveland if someone wants to give up top organizational prospects; I don’t see anyone “splurging” on a guy whose had bad results this season or a dude who seems destined to be a mid-to-back end SP.
myaccount2
Don’t see it happening. Given both’s team control, I feel this is only worth it to Cleveland if someone wants to give up top organizational prospects; I don’t see anyone “splurging” on a guy whose had bad results this season or a dude who seems destined to be a mid-to-back end SP.
msqboxer
Well when the pitching market is bare and the demand is high why not make them available. You don’t need to deal them but if the right offer comes along why not when you a mid-market team that needs long term controlled assets.
Greatest Grapher of All Time (GGOAT)
Yea, I dk if it is worth under selling. If they suspect, things will only get worse? To be fair, they have made all the right moves thus far, cleveland will make right choices, regarding “trades/pitchers”
captainsalty
Surprised that Triston McKenzie was not mentioned at all in this post.
Mystery Team
He’s legit the other guys are clearly not.
DCartrow
Yeah!!
What’s the skinny on McKenzie?
hiflew
Starvin Marvin was turned sideways, so Cleveland management didn’t see him when putting together a list of trade assets.
Col_chestbridge
McKenzie is probably the only one they have a shot at extending. He’s homegrown and they’ve kept the faith with him through injuries and a really bad stretch of walks where he looked lost. If they’re comfy enough with the injury risk, they should absolutely extend him.
Plesac they’re sick of. He apparently is making $2m this year as a sort of “settlement” with the club because they demoted him in 2020 because he broke quarantine rules with Clevinger (his teammates were the ones that told the FO to send him down). Plus the shirt ripping, I think they’re done with him
Bieber knows his value and won’t sign a discount. Quantrill isn’t worth extending. Civale… maybe but not sure he isn’t just Josh Tomlin 2.0
Three years from now I want a rotation with McKenzie, Daniel Espino, and Gavin Williams. Also add 2 of Ethan Hankins, Logan Allen, Xzavion Curry, and/or Joey Cantillo.
Kruk's Beer League
Civale is worth taking a flier on if the cost is right. His advanced stats indicate he’s had some bad luck this year. He was a solid mid rotation option as recent as last year and is still only 27. Not a free agent until 2026.
JoeBrady
I think all three are worth a shot. Plesac is a solid #3 with three years left. Too many folks look at the back-of-the-baseball-card stats, for only 6 games. If I’m arguing on behalf of Civale, he missed ST, had a 9.85 for his first 6 starts, and now he’s shaken the rust off and has a 3.07 for his last 6 starts.
jbigz12
Eh. Plesac as a 3 isn’t likely to me. 4.48 career FIP. Below average ground balls + K numbers and he was developed in one of the best systems for pitching historically. 140 innings is his career best as well.
He’s a fine a backend arm but I’m not paying a whole lot to get that.
Jung Like My Daddy
Common. Do something already.
I somewhat wish there were two trade deadlines again.
I wish they had the claim thing again but teams have 3 days to submit offers of only prospects. So a guy gets put put out there. All teams can put in a claim with offer of only prospects. Team selects offer they like. Teams can include recent draft picks in these deals if they’d like. If a team doesn’t like the offers they keep the player of course.
Cause who knows a seller at trade deadline could reenter the race with a hot august and be a buyer at claimed deadline. And vice versa.
Like July 31st trade deadline
August 30th claim deadline
Jung Like My Daddy
You’d have to include rules like if a player acquired at July deadline cannot be traded at claim deadline. I’m sure players wouldn’t be too happy about being traded twice in a months span. Maybe they would if it’s to a contender for a chance to have an eddy Rosario run and get paid. That’d be something for the league and union to decide.
Oh and a player can only be put out for claiming once.
Avory
“Do something already.”
Another guy hooked on action regardless of whether it makes sense or not.
cleveland_spider
Right? Making trades just to say “hey we did something”. Hard pass. They are not the Yankees
KamKid
How about Quantrill? He seems to have a similar profile as a guy who relies a bit on luck and execution without a lot of margin for error. Continues to outdo his peripherals though. I think he’s also a super 2 guy? That could be a bit of a springboard and if Cleveland thinks he might be more likely to pitch to the peripherals than the past results he might make sense to sell high on.
C Yards Jeff
Confused. Not sure why the Guardians are willing to deal controllable starters … and … regardless of whether these starters are in decline or not. Are they trying to win now? Future? A mix of both?
KamKid
Both? Haven’t they kind of been the prototypical buyer seller in years past?
stymeedone
They have depth. You can trade from depth. Tigers have only one healthy starter, and say they will listen on him. Now that’s confusing!
C Yards Jeff
@Kamkid and stymeedone; thanks guys. I asked because here in Baltimore, GM Elias has the opportunity to win now but is indicating any return he gets on a trade that may happen will be focused on the future. Personally, I’d like to go for it now. But then again, probably amatuer GM thinking on my part.
By the way, I do see Elias talking to Detroit but not about Skubal but Mize. Thinking Detroit would want Henderson for Skubal. That’s a no. Mize spends 23 in bullpen strengthening arm after TJ surgery then slides in to 24 rotation. And don’t have to give up Henderson.
mlb1225
Everyone says you shouldn’t trade with the Rays, but I think the Guardians are up there as another team you’re favorite team shouldn’t deal with. Look at how many of the players they dealt have done since being traded and what they got back. Kluber pitched 1 inning with Texas before being injured and they got arguably the best closer in the league for him. He’s been solid with the Yankees and Rays, but not nearly what he was in Cleveland. They got Quantrill, Naylor, Cantillo, and Arias for Clevinger. Carrasco and Lindor got them Andres Gimenez and Amed Rosario, who are #2 and #3 on the Guardians in bWAR. The Bauer trade was arguably the worst one, but Reyes at least gave them some good production in 2020 and 2021.
JoeBrady
The Met trade was a steal from a team desperate to make a publicity move. Gimenez was perfectly adequate, but not a shiny object. I like lindor a lot, but he is your basic 4.8 WAR player. That’s real good, but you don’t pay him top dollar AND top prospects.
IRT Clevinger, I think Preller was a bit obsessed, and didn’t want to delve too deeply into his health. He went from a 4.97 K/W in 2019 to 1.91 in 2020, and he walked 5 guys in 2 of his 4 starts. That, imho, suggests an injury.
Samuel
Joe;
The key to winning in MLB today is a franchises overall infrastructure. Everyone from the FO though the analytic analysts, the video analysts, the ML coaches (of which there are now dozens that fans don’t know about), the minor league instructors and managers/coaches all have to be on the same page working off of generalized philosophies that are customized for the individual players.
You’re a technical guy. The winning MLB organizations are totally computerized, and process-oriented. This is what Mr. Bloom has to migrate to Boston.
But while Mr. Preller may have his way of finding prospects, he has no clue how to develop most of them. So he pays retail to acquire finished products by shipping out his prospects that have hit a wall. Teams like Cleveland and others take his multiple prospects on and develop them at the ML level. Unfortunately, the players he bought high at need recalibrating, and he doesn’t have the infrastructure in place to do that. So he’ll usually get a good year or two out of them, then they begin regressing.
I heard an interview with Sig Mejdal of the Orioles a few days ago discussing their recent draft. He pretty much runs the draft. Did it under Luhnow in St. Louis where he built the farm system that got that team to the WS; same in Houston; and went to Baltimore with Elias. He kept talking about “trusting the process”. This is a Continuous Improvement – Quality Management strategy. Then he mentioned, “We’re done, the players are turned over to the coaches. and we have the best coaches in MLB”. Maybe he was exaggerating a bit, but the Orioles are now up there with the Astros, Brewers, Rays, and Guardians. This how an organization builds a TEAM, and one that can be a sustainable contender in the age of free agency.
JoeBrady
This is a Continuous Improvement – Quality Management strategy.
=================================
My man, I have been doing that my entire life. I do that every day. I did that this morning. Every time I touch a piece of paper, there is a subconscious part of me looking to improve the product. I added some lines to a schedule to show how it reconciles to the GL. Not liking the final presentation, I deleted three unnecessary lines, decreased the font on about a dozen more, and then decreased the row height. It now looks good. There is a touch of OCD to this, but I manage to close quicker than last month, and have been doing this forever.
JoeBrady
But while Mr. Preller may have his way of finding prospects, he has no clue how to develop most of them.
==============================
Back to BB. This is fairly new to me, and maybe to other GMs. Until maybe 3-4 years ago, I always thought you drafted players and coached them up a little. Then I got to thinking about the number of high draft picks that the RS used on pitchers, and how little they got out of it, relative to teams like Cleveland.
I came to the conclusion that it had to be related to minor league coaching. I wasn’t impressed with the original Houck, and never thought he’d be a NL pitcher. Now he’s pretty good. Same with Crawford and Winckowski, and all three look like they could be reliable #3-4-5 types.
Samuel
LOL
It’s why I wrote it Joe.
MLB is now a big business like any big business.
JoeBrady
Back off-track again, and related to TQM, part of the annual review process was that a boss couldn’t write anything negative UNLESS they had a plan to address that issue. One of my friends was asked to take on more responsibility, and that required a 3-day seminar. When her boss canceled her attendance for that seminar, because of work responsibilities (there was some friction), she went to HR.
HR declined to overrule her boss, but said it was a one-time exception, and that my friend could make any arrangements she wanted after that. So instead of a seminar in NYC, where we worked, she chose SF. That was a nice little perk at that time for a young kid.
But that’s what TQM does. It’s a pain, but it codifies everything.
Samuel
#2 post.
Yes, the Red Sox are moving to developing pitchers and defense. That’s what wins. That’s why they hired Mr. Bloom. And as in business, you don’t bring in hardware, software, processes, and people in one year. This takes time.
I wrote last offseason in response to a complaining Red Sox fan that the team was moving to prioritizing pitching. Theo Epstein and those after him did the easy thing – they developed position players, specifically those that could hit. Then they traded the excess for finished pitchers (as Epstein also did in Chicago and as Preller is doing).
Look at the Sale mess. Contrary to revisionist history, he’d never really been hurt in Chicago. He went down with Boston. This should have been seen? Nonsense. This has happened to ML pitchers for well over 100 years. Suddenly they lose it and are never the same. How to work with that reality? Have a pitching factory in your minor leagues and at the ML level. Guys go down? Next man up. Mr. Henry learned the lesson.
SamtheMan!
Sale’s violent unorthodox delivery has long led to questions to when he’d break down.
I liked the signing at the time but you’re 100% right. The good teams win by developing the pipeline of arms to call up and replace.
cleveland_spider
The Bauer trade looks better and better everyday even if it were for a pile of lint.
TradeAcuna
Bieber for Ozuna
User 3595123227
Why in the world would they even consider doing that? So they can really suck?
mlb1225
Because they’ve done extremely well in the past when trading their starters. Josh Naylor, Cal Quantrill, Emmanuel Clase, Andres Gimenez, Amed Rosario, Franmil Reyes, and notable prospects Gabriel Arias and Joey Cantillo all came from the mix of Mike Clevinger, Corey Kluber, Trevor Bauer, Carlos Carrasco, and Francisco Lindor.
User 3595123227
Ok great but wouldn’t it be nice if they could keep their guys for a change. Yeah I know small market.
mlb1225
True, but Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale aren’t necessarily game changers. They’re middle to back of the rotation arms. The only one they sound like they’re willing to listen to is Shane Bieber, and they want a pretty big haul for him. I am fairly confident (and so are they most likely) that any of Logan Allen, Gavin Williams, Xzavion Curry, Cody Morris, or Nick Mikolajchak could come up now and at least give them what Civale and Plesac can give them.
CKinSTL
After his great performance last night, maybe McCarty would get a few starts.. Gaddis, Curry, and Battenfield are all eligible for the Rule 5 Draft this winter, so perhaps one of them would get dibs.
JoeBrady
wouldn’t it be nice if they could keep their guys for a change.
==============================
Define “nice”.
Right now, (and I’m sure I am missing some), they have traded
Clevinger, Kluber & Lindor
for
Reyes, Naylor, Hedges, Quantrill, Giminez & Clase.
And the $50M they saved enabled them to extend the venerable Ramirez. It would be nice to root for a couple of guys for their entire career, but the Indians wouldn’t be nearly as good without the trades.
User 3595123227
10-4 chief.
Avory
@Clown show
“Small market” is only a part of it, but I would submit revenue limitations sharpens the decision-making process and keeps an organization from getting lazy.
You think it would be “nice” if they could keep their guys for a change. When they keep those guys and they cost more and start to suck, how “nice” is that?
Cleveland fans have got to start facing reality: most teams move on from guys who are replaceable, injury prone, or costly in light of their production. It’s not just a Cleveland thing, it’s an industry thing.
Samuel
Note how it’s OK for players to change teams when they have the right to and want to, but teams are not supposed to trade them when they have the right to and want to get some value back after developing them.
User 3595123227
What a stupid thing to say. Nobody said that.
User 3595123227
I’m speechless. No more words.
CKinSTL
I think it mostly comes down to roster management. They have a huge crop of starters at AA and AAA.. some of which will Wil eligible for the Rule 5 Draft this winter. They have no place the put them in the rotation or the 40 man roster.
Ed Charles
Get rid of trade deadlines. Drummed up nonsense.
tstats
Ooooo I like this
Old York
For a bag of peanuts?
CATS44
Everybody wants to compare Bieber to his 12 starts in 2020, which is ridiculous.
His ERA and FIP are right on his career numbers. He ranks 7th in fWAR in the AL and 5th in FIP.
Hardly on a downtrend.
Same with Plesac. Everybody wants to compare him to his eight starts in 2020.
His ERA and FIP are both reasonably close to his career numbers.
Hardly on a downtrend.
Both Bieber and Plesac are what they are and what they have been in terms of production.
If velocity was the be all that ends all, Greinke would have been done five years ago and Maddux would have never been.
It should be noted that when Cleveland traded Bauer, Clevinger, Kluber, and Carrasco they had good young MLB ready starters in place. They do not now, more like a year away.
It should also be noted that when this Cleveland regime trades a rotational starter, they always get at least one pitcher in return, and often one that is ready to step in. Several of them have worked out very well. Right now, it’s Quantrill and Clase.
dadofdonnydownvote
@cats. I love the Maddux mention. He was outstanding with the Braves. Maddux was never really a hard thrower though. Too me Bieber’s dropped velocity is concerning. It’s a shame more pitchers haven’t taken the Maddux approach and instead try to throw as hard as possible. 20 years ago very few MLB pitchers threw harder than 95 mph and a majority of them were the closers. Now we get to see endless Tommy John surgeries. I miss the value of speed and pitching. Now it’s all swing and throw as hard as possible.
stymeedone
It was fun to watch Jim Kaat pitcb. You knew you’d be home before dark. He pitched quick. He threw strikes. Great fielder like Maddux. Quick games.
cleveland_spider
Kinda similar to current generation of hitters. It more about launch angle and swinging for the fences instead of hitting them where they ain’t
Avory
@CATS44
“WhoAzcue” approves this comment.
baji kimran
There’s a whole lot of pitchers who suddenly aren’t as dominant since they took the sticky stuff away.
Orioles Fan
I truly don’t understand why are all these teams trying to get rid of these younger pitchers. Some of these pitchers have an upside because they are still controlled beyond this year and next few year’s. Teams in the past would hold onto them forever before they moved them. It seems like everyone is trying to win this year or the next. If not go onto a complete rebuild and start all over from scratch.
I am hoping the Orioles stay true to their plan no matter if they have a chance for a wild card spot or not. Teams like the Pirates and Marlins and you can name some others seem like all they do is rebuild and never get no where.
Stop tearing down the team if you don’t win automatically. That is how a dynasty is formed.
GeronimoSon
@oriolesfan…
The Guardians aren’t looking to get rid of them.. the CleFO is merely stating they are willing to listen on these guys.. IF the right offer comes to them.. they’ll make a deal.. The concept of a “haul” for Bieber.. isn’t something the CleFO said.. that’s an editorial addition by a writer.. It should be noted that it may still be true (i.e. the CleFO wants an exhorbitant haul for Bieber) ,,but no less true than what his worth is..
CleFO sets a value for their guys.. and seldom back away from it.. What is that value ? Only CleFO knows.. In under a week.. we’ll all know..
C Yards Jeff
@Orioles Fan and GeronimoSon. Great thread. Thanks fellas. For the record, I wish Elias would go for it this year! But understand that the man has plan and it looks like he’s holding firm. In regards to the intel on how the CleFo operates, interesting. It sounds like this is Cleveland’s MO 365 days/yr? It’s just obvious now for the obvious reason a trade dead line is looming?
Orioles Fan
@CYardsJeff thank you for the input. I am also very excited about the Orioles this year and maybe with a couple of small moves it might put the Orioles in a good spot for a WC spot. I also have to agree with you that Elias is going to stick to his plan. I think the Orioles are going to be good for a few years starting with this year being the pivotal moment.
But if the Orioles could pickup a good young pitcher from the Tigers or the Guardians I hope he goes for it.
C Yards Jeff
@Orioles Fan; yes, exciting times. Go black and orange, go! Here’s to winning now and in the future. Cheers!
mlb1225
The only player here that makes a decent impact is Bieber. Not saying that Civale or Plesac aren’t good, but they really don’t move the needle. For a team that churs out pitching talent that can only be rivaled by the all-mighty Rays, they have the ability to trade a mid/back of the rotation arm. Per FanGraphs’ top Guardians’ prospect list, of the 54 prospects they rank, 15 are pitchers at the Double-A level or higher.
slimmycito
I haven’t read any of the comments but when I saw the headline I thought McKenzie! Go gettem Jays! Then I read the article. Lol. I’d still take Civale or Plesac over Kikuchi or Max Castillo etc though.
Annabella
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Rsox
Plesac for JD Martinez?
hockeyjohn
I don’t see Cleveland trading a controllable starting pitcher for a rental.
cleveland_spider
Right. That wouldn’t make much sense. I secretly would love to see them trade Civale and Plesac for Ian Happ.
Avory
2/5 of the rotation for a guy who would have to displace one of Kwan/Straw;Jones in the lineup? Pass. More than a little nutty.
cleveland_spider
I said secretly lol
And you are not the first person to call me nutty