The Angels’ early-offseason aggressiveness continues. The Halos announced the acquisition of outfielder Hunter Renfroe from the Brewers on Tuesday night. Pitchers Janson Junk, Elvis Peguero and Adam Seminaris head to Milwaukee in return.
It’s the third early strike of the offseason for the Halos, who’ve already signed starter Tyler Anderson to a three-year free agent deal and acquired infielder Gio Urshela in a trade with the Twins. Now, they take a step towards fixing an outfield that had a major question mark alongside Mike Trout and Taylor Ward.
Renfroe should solidify the corner outfield spot opposite Ward. He’s been an above-average hitter in each of the past two seasons, with strikingly similar production for the Red Sox in 2021 and Brewers this year. The former first-rounder has combined for 60 home runs over the last two seasons, following up a 31-homer showing with the Sox with 29 more in Milwaukee. He had an identical .315 on-base percentage in each year but more than offset that modest number with big power production.
The right-handed hitter has hit between .255 and .260 in each of the last two years while slugging around .500 both seasons. He has a cumulative .257/.315/.496 line in just under 1100 plate appearances going back to the start of 2021. His 22.9% strikeout rate is right around average, while he’s walked at a slightly below-average 7.6% clip. He’s a lower-OBP slugger who has particularly decimated left-handed opposition. Renfroe carries a .269/.357/.508 line over that stretch while holding the platoon advantage. He’s had starker on-base concerns but hit for enough power to remain a decent option against right-handed pitching (.252/.292/.491).
That power production is Renfroe’s calling card, but he’s also a viable defender. Defensive Runs Saved has pegged him right around league average in right field in each of the last three seasons. Statcast’s range-based metric has Renfroe a few runs below average annually, but he compensates for his fringy athleticism with top-tier arm strength. He’s picked up double-digit assists in each of the last two years, and he leads all MLB outfielders with 27 baserunners cut down in that time.
Renfroe’s excellent arm strength has kept him primarily in right field over the past few years, although he did log a number of innings in left earlier in his career. If he steps into right field at Angel Stadium, that’d push Ward over to left field. Former top prospect Jo Adell now looks as if he’ll be relegated to fourth outfield/bench duty after beginning his career with a .215/.259/.356 showing in roughly one full season’s worth of games. Adell is still just 23 years old and coming off a solid year in Triple-A Salt Lake, but the Angels don’t appear prepared to count on him for a regular role as they look to vault their way into the playoff picture in 2023.
As with last week’s Urshela trade, the Renfroe acquisition is about deepening the lineup with a productive but not elite veteran for a season. Renfroe turns 31 in January and is in his final season of club control. He’s projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for an $11.2MM salary, and he’ll be a free agent at the end of the year. That’s a reasonable sum for a player of this caliber, but one moderately expensive season of arbitration control over a lower-OBP corner slugger isn’t teeming with trade value. Renfroe is the second player of that ilk dealt in as many weeks.
The Blue Jays sent Teoscar Hernández to the Mariners for reliever Erik Swanson and pitching prospect Adam Macko. That trade came as a surprise to a number of Toronto fans, but each of Swanson and Macko are arguably more appealing players than any of the trio of pitchers Milwaukee received in this swap. Hernández is a better hitter than Renfroe is, but the gap between the former’s .282/.332/.508 line over the past two seasons and the latter’s production isn’t all that dramatic. Nevertheless, Renfroe has had a hard time sticking in any one spot as his price tag has escalated throughout his arbitration seasons. The Halos will be his fifth team in as many years, as he’s successively played for the Padres, Rays, Red Sox and Brewers going back to 2019.
Adding his projected arbitration salary pushes the Halos’ estimated 2023 payroll up to around $192MM, per Roster Resource. That’d be the highest mark in franchise history, narrowly topping their approximate $189MM figure from this past season. They’re up to roughly $206MM in luxury tax commitments, around $27MM shy of the $233MM base threshold. The franchise’s spending capacity this winter has been in question with owner Arte Moreno exploring a sale of the franchise. There’s still no indication the club is willing to approach luxury tax territory, but the acquisitions of Anderson, Urshela and Renfroe have tacked on an estimated $31.9MM in 2023 spending. The latter two players represent one-year investments, but it seems Moreno is affording general manager Perry Minasian and his group some leeway to add to the roster in advance of the club’s final season of control over defending AL MVP runner-up Shohei Ohtani.
The Brewers add a trio of pitchers, two of whom already have big league experience. Junk is a former 22nd-round pick of the Yankees. He went to the Halos in the 2021 deadline deal that sent southpaw Andrew Heaney to the Bronx. The right-hander has pitched in seven MLB games over the past two seasons, starting six. He’s allowed a 4.74 ERA through 24 2/3 innings, striking out a below-average 19.4% of opponents but posting a sterling 4.4% walk rate.
Junk, 27 in January, leans primarily on a low-80s slider which prospect evaluators suggest could be an above-average pitch. He has decent spin on his 92-93 MPH four-seam but hasn’t cemented himself on a big league staff to this point. He spent most of this year on optional assignment to Salt Lake, where he posted a 4.64 ERA through 73 2/3 innings as a starter in a hitter-friendly environment. His 22.1% strikeout percentage was a touch below average, but he only walked 5.8% of opponents. The Seattle University product still has a pair of minor league option years remaining and can bounce between Milwaukee and Triple-A Nashville as rotation or middle relief depth.
Peguero, on the other hand, is a pure reliever. The righty debuted with three appearances as a COVID replacement late in the 2021 season. He earned a permanent 40-man roster spot last offseason and appeared in 13 games this year. Tasked with low-leverage innings, Peguero put up a 7.27 ERA across 17 1/3 innings. He only struck out 15.6% of opponents but got swinging strikes on a more impressive 12% of his total pitches. The Dominican Republic native induced grounders on roughly half the batted balls he surrendered in the majors.
He also had an excellent year in Salt Lake, where he tossed 44 1/3 frames of 2.84 ERA ball. Peguero fanned 27.5% of batters faced against a quality 7.1% walk rate and racked up grounders at a huge 57.5% clip. Like Junk, Peguero leaned primarily on a slider during his MLB look, although he throws much harder. Peguero’s slider checked in at 91 MPH on average while his fastball sat just north of 96. He turns 26 in March and also has two options remaining, so the Brewers can deploy him as an up-and-down middle reliever while hoping he can translate his Triple-A success against big league opponents.
Seminaris went in the fifth round in the 2020 draft out of Long Beach State. A 6’0″ southpaw, he wasn’t ranked among the top 30 prospects in the Anaheim system at Baseball America. He traversed three minor league levels this year, showing well at High-A against younger competition but struggling as he climbed the minor league ladder. Altogether, he worked 101 2/3 frames of 3.54 ERA ball with a 22.1% strikeout rate and an 8.7% walk percentage. He’s not on the 40-man roster but will have to be added by the end of the 2023 season or be exposed in the Rule 5 draft.
While Milwaukee clearly likes all three mid-20’s hurlers, they’re each flexible depth options. Surely, a key motivator in the deal was reallocating Renfroe’s hefty arbitration projection. Slashing payroll wasn’t the sole impetus for the trade — the Brewers could’ve simply non-tendered Renfroe last week if they were committed to getting his money off the books — but GM Matt Arnold and his staff elected to clear some payroll room while bringing in a few depth arms of note.
The Brewers are projected for a salary around $115MM at Roster Resource thanks largely to an arbitration class that still includes Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff and Willy Adames, among others. That’s about $17MM shy of this year’s Opening Day mark, and more roster shuffling figures to be on the horizon. Dealing a complementary player like Renfroe doesn’t suggest the Brewers are about to flip any of Burnes, Woodruff or Adames, but Milwaukee could consider moving second baseman Kolten Wong or a depth starter like Adrian Houser or Eric Lauer. They’ve already drawn some interest from the Mariners on Wong and are sure to contemplate a number of ways to try to balance the present and the future.
Milwaukee could now dip into the lower tiers of the free agent corner outfield market to backfill for Renfroe’s absence, with Tyrone Taylor standing as the current favorite for playing time alongside Christian Yelich and Garrett Mitchell in the outfield. Highly-touted young players like Sal Frelick and Joey Wiemer could play their way into the mix midseason, but it’d be a surprise if the Brewers didn’t add at least one veteran outfielder before Opening Day.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Plugnplay
Angels making moves! Playoff! Playoffs! 😉
davemlaw
I think they’re angling that way. One more good pitcher and they will be dangerous.
With Verlander leaving Houston (yes, he gone) the AL West will be competitive.
jeff51488
Keep dreaming lol
MLB Top 100 Commenter
This move makes the Angels better without a long-term commitment so that the new owner will have flexibility. Smart move, as was the Anderson signing. The Angels are still behind the Asterisks and Mariners and roughly even with the Rangers, assuming that the Rangers themselves will acquire a quality starting pitcher this off-season..
RobM
I do wonder if 2022 might turn out to be peak Astros historically. Crane is having greater input and he’s embracing more old-school ways, including counting on Jeff Bagwell and Reggie Jackson as close advisors. They may be fine, or we may look back in a couple seasons and realize this Astros organization is no longer run as efficiently as the championship ones. Not wishing it, but curious how they’ll operate moving forward.
astros_fan_84
Winning the World Series is the peak for any franchise. The question is how long will the window stay open? Two years for sure.
But after that, they have no bad contracts, a owner who’ll float a high bankroll, and a system that consistently pumps outs good players. I think they can be perennial contenders like the Yankees or Dodgers.
Ma4170
I wouldn’t equate “old-school” with losing baseball unless it’s way too far of a shift – in either direction. But I’m wondering if you’re right also in the fact they might lose Verlander, Altuve a year older, Bregman hasn’t been very good since the scandal, etc. Yordan and Tucker and the young pitching should keep them competitive, but elite? Not sure
Pads Fans
When you look at the people that have left the system from a FO, scouting, and coaching standpoint, its easy to see how people are questioning if the Astros run is close to over. Its not just Click.
The 2 AGMs that oversaw the analytics and the farm system, the Director of Minor League Baseball Operations, and the Director of Player Development all were fired or quit.
In addition, three other execs were hired away this year already. Pute Putila, the new GM in San Francisco and the guy who was focused on player development and the integration of technology in both scouting and MLB training; and Oz Ocampo, the head of the Astros international scouting department and Ocampo’s top scouting exec Roman Ocumarez were hired by the Marlins.
3 more key personnel including Ball, the last AGM of the Click era, have just one more year on their contracts.
The core of a front office, most of which has been there since Luhnow will all be gone by the end of 2023.
If I was an Astros fan I would be concerned by the scale of change happening in one year.
flamingbagofpoop
What? Alex Bregman just put up 5.5 fwar.
JackStrawb
@RobM Interesting. I’ve never heard Reggie say anything evincing a real understanding of the game’s evolution during the 35 years since he retired, but if anyone has a link to even just a five minute interview where he shares meaningful insights, I’d enjoy hearing it.
Reggie seems like the exact wrong guy to rely on when it comes to running a team at the end of 2022. He’s going on 77 years of age. Ancient stars are not notorious for their insights into team building in the sabermetric era, while Bagwell seems more an anchor to previous, good Astros teams. than a genuine aide-de-camp.
Crane might be very fortunate to have lost Click during an offseason where not a whole lot needs to be done, giving Crane a year to put a real FO fully in place.
GarryHarris
Why would anyone take advice from Reggie Jackson? Team building has never been Reggie’s forte’ on the field, off the field or in the booth. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been fomenting dissension in Houston’s front office.
websoulsurfer
Moreno doesn’t mind spending money on top pitchers as long as its short term contracts. DeGrom or Verlander is right up his alley. Look for one of the two to be wearing Halos in 2023.
scjohn92
CJ Wilson and his 5 year contract.
websoulsurfer
A blast from the past. I think he was the last one to get over 3 years from Moreno. Or was it Jered Weaver?
User 2079935927
I seriously doubt it. Money can be better spent on one of the top SS’s and BP help.
brewsingblue82
I’m pretty sure DeGrom is looking for a longer term contract with early opt outs. Meaning a short contract if he’s performing well/healthy enough to grab another long term commitment, or you’re stuck with him if he keeps getting hurt and starts to decline from injuries.
put it in the books
That’s baseball contracts these days. If I’m good I want out and if I’m bad you’ve gotta keep me.
outinleftfield
From your fingers to Moreno’s ears.
outinleftfield
This site said in their Top 50 that a 3/135 deal was in the works for DeGrom. The guys over at the Athletic said the same. He may get an opt out after one year, but I don’t think he gets longer than 3 years after spending most of the last 2 seasons on the IL.
Omarj
Quality SS like say Dansby Swanson, solid #2 SP, quality reliever and now we’re talking. Either way, Perry has added good pieces
Pads Fans
The Angels are for sale, so the deals they make are all going to be relatively short term. 3 years is probably going to be the longest.
Anderson signed a 3 year deal. Urshela and Renfroe are both good players set to earn a relatively large amount in arbitration and both are FA after 2023.
They still need help in their bullpen and a shortstop, but those are likely going to be short term deals, too.
Think about guys that are FA and would take a make good 1 year deal or who are FA after 2023 and their teams may need to be cutting payroll as Angels targets to fill their remaining holes.
Someone mentioned deGrom above, but I don’t think he will be an option, even if that kind of major splash is something Moreno likes to do. If they go after a TOR, I think it would be Verlander because it would be a shorter deal.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans I have Jean Segura going to the Angels for just the reasons you named.
brewsingblue82
I don’t see how you’d have the conclusion that Verlander is for sure gone from Houston. They have the pockets, they just won a championship, and he seems to have a direct relationship with the owner when it comes to his negotiations. I’d say a Houston return still is the most likely scenario until he signs elsewhere.
outinleftfield
Verlander is looking to basically double the dollar value per season of the deal he just opted out of. I think that is WAY outside Crane’s comfort zone.
Robrock30
I applaud this move. Anytime you can acquire Hunter Renfroe for Junk that is Good. Nice stealth move signing Tyler Anderson also. May I suggest the one more good pitcher to acquire is Chris Bassitt. I think he fits with solid stats and he is healthy so low risk.
Oh Keep Ohtani Extend him!
Robrock30
What’s not to like about Gio Urshela? I am familiar with him with the Yankees where he was an under the radar Superstar. Solid Move
Ra
Looks like the primary SS in Anaheim. Nothing to like about that.
outinleftfield
He may be leaving to take up residence in SoCal.
Deleted Userr
Pads Fans, outinleftfield and websoulsurfer are all the same guy. He’s also PLTuna and BaseballIsLife.
BuddyBoy
Get some pitching that makes a difference, maybe. Bullpen is trash and the rotation is okay but not even top two in the division.
orange2001
The rotation is better than “okay”. But definitely need to improve the pen.
BuddyBoy
Ohtani and a bunch of mid rotation guys is what they have. It’s fine, but they need a top guy added. Anderson is not likely to be more than the #4 type he was his entire career before his career year last year. Detmers, Suarez, and Sandoval are #3 types
Lanidrac
So they have a #1, a #3, a #4, and two more #3s acting as their 2nd and 5th starters? If that’s true, that’s still a really good rotation, at least among their projected top 5 starters.
websoulsurfer
The Angels pen was 18th in ERA and a little lower in xFIP. They were not great, but by no means were they trash like the Rockies, Pirates, or Reds. They do need at least one arm to add to that peen.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
What they need is more offensive depth behind Trout/soon-to-be-gone Ohtani
Pads Fans
The two pick ups they made give them good depth. Especially if Rendon and Walsh are healthy to start the 2023 season.
They could probably use an everyday SS allowing Gio to play all around the infield as needed and a catcher because O’Hoppe is unproven, but if they don’t, it seems to me that they still have a MLB quality backup at every position.
Bart
Soto should get the first chance to start. While he is a rookie he is solid across the board. He was the lesser known of 2 inti FAs the Angels signed after their Braves contracts were voided.
websoulsurfer
Soto is not better than Urshela as of today. If Rendon and Walsh are healthy its Rendon, Urshela, Rengifo, and Walsh across that infield to start the season.
Soto will definitely get a good amount of at bats at SS as Urshela spells both Rendon and Walsh to keep them healthy.
jdgoat
I hope the Angels and Rangers both make some good improvements this year. The AL West could be a real blood bath.
Dorothy_Mantooth
They signed Trout’s twin brother! They should change jerseys one game and see if anyone notices.
GoogleMe
It will be an interesting day 1 when Mike Trout meets “Mike Trout” for the first time. Trout will be like,” Perry got 2 of me, we got this” then someone will need to explain to Trout that the other Mike Trout isnt actually Mike Trout but in fact Hunter Renfroe.
i like al conin
Interesting that it’s another one-year deal giving up little and no dead money on a long-term free agent contract. Good strategy.
cards2016
This was a steal.
GoogleMe
Thank you Milwaukee. We won’t have to see Adell and Moniak in the OF a lion share of the time. I imagine Moniak will still be our 4th OF with Adell going to AAA. Let’s hope that the top 3 OF can remain healthy.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Moniak, the former #1 overall pick by the Phillies courtesy of exiled GM, Matt Klentak who we got from the Angels. I’m a longtime Phillies fan, and Klentak cost us five years of progress. His draft picks and trades mostly sucked big time. No wonder Artie didn’t stand in the way of him leaving.
JoeBrady
Klentak cost us five years of progress.
=========================================
I was thinking about this yesterday with the DD conversation. Wasn’t almost every key person on the 2022 Philly team a Klentak acquisition?
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
yes, there were a few. Could be wrong, but I believe Wheeler was signed on Dombro’s watch and Stott was a Dombro draftee.
Klentak did make the trades for Realmuto and Segura, but it was Dombro who re-signed Realmuto after he became a FA. Hoskins and Bohm were most likely drafted when Klentak was GM, but not 100% sure. Nola was drafted by Amaro.
Most of this year’s bullpen was built by Dombro, and it is in that area where Klentak really came up short.
But Klentak’s biggest shortcoming was his ineptness in the international market. While others plucked the likes of Acuna, Albies, Alvarez, Abreu, Urias, Castilla, Bogaerts, and the like, at this moment we only have Seranthony Dominguez and Ranger Surarez paying dividends. Dividends I might add that pale in comparison to the aforementioned names,
Samuel
JoeBrady;
1. No.
2. Most of his acquisitions were not even on the roster (and pretty much failed with other teams).
3. The job of a FO head is not limited to selecting players as rotisserie league owners do. It’s to build and maintain an organizational infrastructure that works with the players; develops and maintains them. This is something that Klentak and the other kid with him had no clue about….and what DD put in place and kept adjusting when he came aboard.
JoeBrady
Could be wrong, but I believe Wheeler was signed on Dombro’s watch and Stott was a Dombro draftee.
===================================
Stott was drafted in 2019. Wheeler was signed in 2019. He extended Realmuto, but Realmuto was acquired by Klentak.
JoeBrady
That could all be true, but almost 100% of the this year’s Phillies team bWAR was acquired by Klentak.
Just to keep it simple, by considering only players with a 1 WAR or better, the total bWAR is 35.6. The players acquired by Klentak accounted for 32.4. That’s 91%. That’s my only point. There are people in here bending over backwards giving credit to DD, but almost the entire team was acquired by Klentak.
I’m not even a Klentak fan, but in retrospect, his moves paid off big time. But to make this even simpler, if all the DD fans could acknowledge that 91% of the bWAR belonged to Klentak, then my work here is done.
Pads Fans
Klentak didn’t make high end personnel decisions, Andy McPhail did.
McPhail and Middleton drove the decisions to sign Harper and Wheeler and to trade for Realmuto.
Nola, Suarez, and Efflin predate Klentak. Syndergaard and Gibson were Dombrowski additions The pen was totally made over by Dombrowski.
websoulsurfer
This ^^^. Klentak was a glorified Director of Baseball Operations, not a true GM. Andy McPhail made all the big decisions.
JoeBrady
Klentak didn’t make high end personnel decisions, Andy McPhail did.
=====================================
Since I wasn’t in the room, I will defer to your judgement.
And will change my statement to:
“There are people in here bending over backwards giving credit to DD, but almost the entire team was acquired by Klentak.& his predecessors”
cdouglas24000
Side note: that before season started trade of renfroe from the red Sox to the brew crew for JBJ was absolutely horrible for Boston. JbJ has been cooked and I’ve heard nothing of note of the prospects they got for renfroe. What a garbage move
JoeBrady
I’ve heard nothing of note of the prospects
===================================
Hamilton had a .740 OPS with a 70/8 SB/CS. Decent candidate to be our UIF in the season or two.
Binelas had 25 HRs in 427 ABs split between A+ and AA, Good hitter, but I am not sure what role hell play.
BStrowman
Joe that was an extremely optimistic representation of Binelas.
He was 30% below average in AA despite hitting 11 HRS. He also batted ..166 with a . .250 OBP. Over 31% K rate.
Doesn’t look like much of a player.
BStrowman
Runs well below average and his defense is also below average.
Barring a massive back bounce back at the plate—he’s not even going to be a major leaguer. Let alone a contributor.
all in the suit that you wear
Binelas has only played 55 games in AA. Let’s see how he does next year.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Renfroe: boing boing boing boing, like ricochet rabbit, from team to team. yet to be a solution…
Deadguy
They are definitely making moves that make them better on paper but will it move the needle?
Peguero seems to be the best piece going back to Milwaukee?
Milwaukee-2208
Wtf
thomps07
I assume this means Mitchell has the CF job.
jfv33
Platoon with Ruiz I’m guessing.
Fever Pitch Guy
thomp – Sign JBJ and call it even.
kripes-brewers
Spending the money on run prevention, maybe holding onto Woodruff and Burnes for one more year and see what shakes out by the deadline.
Gator50
Funny – I was scrolling down looking for a Milwaukee sided comment. I thought that Milwaukee would retool a little this off season to make one more run (hopefully) with that starting rotation, and when they picked up Wong’s option – I thought it was a first step in that process. Moving Renfroe however makes me wonder if some type of semi tear down will ensue.
brewsingblue82
My guess on Milwaukee’s front is that they picked up Wongs option and Renfroe was tendered a contract just to see which, or both they could get a return from and get something out of it instead of just letting them walk. I still won’t be surprised if Wong is traded as well, but I’m expecting Burnes and Woodruff stay out at least until the trade deadline.
Otherwise the money from Renfroe and Wong I think is likelier to be reallocated to improve the lineup somewhere else. Although Mitchell showed promise last year, I doubt the CF job is his to lose. I’m guessing they either add another outfielder or a third basemen, plus a catcher. With Narvaez a free agent, I don’t see them going with the 2 in house options as they’re 2 main roster catchers. One of them is likely going to just be for depth.
I made some dark horse picks for Milwaukee on my free agent contest. They’re not likely going to be in the mix for the top free agents, but I can see them as a dark horse candidate for Justin Turner (who they approached last time he was a free agent) or even a team that may take a shot on Bellinger, even though they already have their own former MVP that’s still trying to get back to form.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
What about Estuary Ruiz, one of the players they got in the Hader trade, playing every day at 2B (If Wong is traded.) or in CF? His 2022 minor league numbers are off the charts. Pop and speed, although I do question the validity of home run totals amassed in the PCL.
kripes-brewers
I think the FO would have to be pretty bowled over with a trade proposal to move Wong. There’s been a lot of talk about teams looking for increased athleticism at 2B with the “end” of the shift, and he’s a GG dude – even coming off a bad year defensively. I bet they wait to see if one of those kids gets off to a screaming start in spring training before they seriously consider it. See if someone wins a spot before you trade away a known commodity.
kripes-brewers
I don’t think it’ll be that drastic. They just figured that Renfroe’s production at ~ $11+M could be replaced for much cheaper (I think they were expecting a breakout that just never happened). He’s good, with a great arm, but not a game changer. They’ll use that cash to fill in the bullpen and we’ll likely hear about “keeping the powder dry” if something pops up on the trade market
Spike Hyzer
Of course it was a huge breakout and he’s a game changer on both sides of the ball.
He hit those HRs in only 522 PAs (Judge had nearly 700) and only played in 3/4ths of the games (and I don’t think he started all 125, because he had to come off the DL a few times or was a PH/Defensive replacement on occasion when he didn’t start).
If the guy could ever play a full season, he might hit 40. I suspect he would have last year with 650 PAs, even if he turned in his 2nd most healthy season.
Not saying it was a bad trade. Some of these prospects are highly rated and getting ready to make the leap to MLB, and it was good to get some pitching depth since we are overloaded with better talent than people believe at both OF and SS (and if we see a trade, it will perhaps be one of our pitching prospects and maybe an OF prospect, my hope being to get Isaac Paredes and hand him the starting job at 3B, while moving Urias to 2B, trading Wong for prospects, and Turang and Brosseau become the utility guys).
Then we just need a catcher!
roote14
You clearly don’t understand revenue at all.
King Floch
What a Junk return for the Brewers.
fre5hwind
That was steal move for the Angels.
luckyh
Makes me wonder about Renfroe. Well traveled for his numbers. There was something off about him in Boston. Time will tell.
Deadguy
Seems the brewers have had a few junk return trades recently? Josh Hader, now Renfroe
King Floch
The baseball gods are punishing them for being so cheap when they have dual aces and a wide open competitive window.
JeffreyChungus
You say that but I think the Pads are gonna regret letting Gasser go once he’s in the show. I’ve seen analytics-heavy prospect publications give him a lot of hype the last few months
JeffreyChungus
Peguero is the type of arm the Brewers coaching staff can turn around. You’ll be asking “why did the angels trade this guy?” come June
YourDreamGM
I thought Hader return was strong. This trade definitely isn’t. There are things to like about all 3 of these relievers. They seen something they liked and went the quantity route. One man’s trash is another’s….
Pads Fans
Trash?
Spike Hyzer
No.
ruff kuntry
It’s funny Junk and Peguero were the two guys Angels got from the Yankees for Heaney.
brewsingblue82
I don’t think they were ever going to or expected to get much out of Renfroe. As is often noted, the corner outfield position isn’t necessarily he’d to fill. I think it was always about getting at least something in return, depth especially, that they even tendered him.
Not an exciting return at all, but I don’t think it ever was going to be.
fre5hwind
Big move! Angels coming in hot watch out!
Samuel
Ah-HA!
Said they get a LF….so they move the RF to LF.
The Baseball Fan
Smart move. Angels have actually had the best offseason SO FAR if you think about it
Samuel
The Baseball Fan;
Smart move by smart GM.
It took years to get the deadwood out and the structures set. Now he can complete the process…..and he’s not done! Closer will be found before opening day.
bigdaddy71
Ben Joyce.
GoogleMe
Ben Joyce won’t be there this year. He has touched 105mph and he had a good start to his major league career, stiking out 20 in 13 innings, but he wear an Angel;s uniform for another couple years. . Perry has done a good job drafting bullpen pieces in his first 2 years, Luke Murphy, Eric Torres, Ben Joyce,, and even Sam Bachman can all be part of their bullpen in the next couple of years, but for now if they want bullpen help, they will need to pay for it.
websoulsurfer
Good call. Joyce went from college to AA where he struck out 20 in 13 IP and only walked 4. Scouts around the league thought that if the Angels were in a playoff run that he might have been called up to the bigs in 2022.
He most certainly will be pitching for the big league team in 2023 at some point.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
TBF
I agree with you, but it is rather early to tally the score. But the Angels have the best start, followed by the Padres and Mets for keeping some existing talent, but with very slight overpays. Also, interesting is the Rockies trading for Nolan (Jones not Arenado), gutsy move for the Rockies to ever bring a player named Nolan into the fold given the memories that he will stir for their fans.
Milwaukee-2208
About to boycott this team rn
Bobcastelliniscat
Cincinnati Reds fans say hello
Big whiffa
@ bob
It’s been 7/8 years for me since I’ve spent a dime on anything reds related! I won’t even admit they are my team on this site lol.
brewsingblue82
To late big whiffa, we all know now
Big whiffa
I even went as far as trying to root for a different team lol. The heart wants what it wants….
Henry Silvestre
Horrible trade for Brewers .. I mean come on Bro
brewsingblue82
Not really. The return? Yes. But I think he was going to be traded all along from the point of tendering him. Being a small market team, they’re always going to cut and reallocate. While they can likely to afford to spend more than they have, they can’t afford to keep adding payroll year in and year out.
Essentially it was a depth move for someone they’d of likely just nontendered otherwise to save the money. So in that case, it’s a win for getting 3 players for depth. Because that’s all I expected.
SharksFan91
@brewsingblue82 STOP with the “Brewers are a small market team” excuses. Milwaukee is routinely in the MLB top 15 for home attendance along with the top 15 most expensive for a fan to attend a game in Milwaukee. Plus the team receives revenue sharing from the larger market teams. The team has a history of doing just enough to keep the fans happy by being competitive for a few years, then tearing down for a few seasons. One WS appearance, and 8 playoff appearances in 54 years as a franchise. There are several problems with the franchise and being labeled a “small market” team is much further down the list of those issues.
popitforpoppa
the bucks don’t seem to be hindered by the market that they play in..
websoulsurfer
Attendance has nothing to do with market size. Milwaukee is the smallest in market size in MLB.
methodshop.com/nielsen-dma-rankings-full-list/
SharksFan91
@Henry Silvestre Exactly! Couldn’t have said any better.
Spike Hyzer
Until they pull a Brinson and trade one or more of those prospects for the next Yeli.
Deadguy
Boycotting won’t do much, but this was a horrible deal
A'sfaninUK
This was a great return for Hunter Renfroe, who isn’t even an all-star or has ever had a 3+ WAR season. Why are you guys mad? Brewers got so many intriguing arms who had nice K/BB rates last season at AAA, what more do you want for your precious 2.5 WAR player lol
Johnny Bravo
A’sfaninUK
Hunter Renfrow would look good in a Las Vegas A’s uniform
disadvantage
@A’sfan
What’s your point here? Renfroe was an above average hitter for the Brewers, which has plenty of value, regardless of his other stats. Given the underwhelming return and improbability of finding a suitable replacement given the Brewer’s penny pinching ways, this seems like a pretty big blow.
As for using WAR and being an all-star as metrics, well… Garrett Cooper was a freaking all-star. And if you really want to use WAR at face value, his 2.7 WAR pegs him at more than 25% more valuable than Kyle Schwarber (who was also an all-star, and got MVP votes to boot).
So are WAR and being an all-star really the hill you want to die on?
JoeBrady
Why are you guys mad?
======================
Because, imho, about 75-80% of the fans in here believe that whoever got the biggest name, won the trade.
A'sfaninUK
@sfes you are trolling, I am talking ball. Reported.
A'sfaninUK
Anytime you clowns cant counter my points, you immediately go to personal attacks and gaslighting. You are the problem here, not me – reported.
A'sfaninUK
Yup, really nice when the trolls and casuals put a spotlight on themselves! Really easy to mute!
disadvantage
Interesting that just two posts after calling me a loser you say “Anytime you clowns cant counter my points, you immediately go to personal attacks and gaslighting.” Glass houses, my friend.
And Garrett Cooper’s WAR at the ASB is irrelevant because it isn’t enough to substantially claim he was the better player, he was a completely underwhelming player to begin with, and he ended the season with 1.0 WAR. But please, I encourage you to continue to die on that hill.
And can you, in the words I wrote, show me where I said Hunter Renfroe “deserves a massive trade return”? I’ll wait.
Mario93
Blue Jays will gladly accept you. Come on aboard.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Brewers have had issues with weak OF performances the past few seasons. Ain’t ever gonna see the Yelich of old. Yet they trade away a perfectly affordable Renfroe.
brewcrewfan82
11 million for 1 year isn’t affordable for them. Put that money toward extending Adames or a SP. Let Ruis/Mitchell split OF reps.
davidk1979
Was hoping the Mets got him and had Canha as the 4th OFer.
RyanD44
So the Brewers got a quantity of arms.. just no quality..
I remember a couple weeks ago Brewers fans were telling me how much value Renfoe had on the market.
King Floch
Yeah, the return doesn’t look so hot at first glance- only 1 guy from MLB Pipeline’s top 30 Angels prospects rankings, Janson Junk all the way down at 16th of 30.
I’d be pretty ticked if I was a Brew Crew Dewd.
fre5hwind
Peguero still has potential maybe if he plays more he’ll get better.
SharksFan91
I’d rather the Crew had taken a flyer on Adell as part of the return instead of more pitchers like the dozens of others “with potential” acquired over the years who then become an after thought, well traveled, or disappear completely because they can’t throw strikes or keep the ball in the park.
JoeBrady
I always wanted my RS to take a shot, but his stats are abysmal and getting worse. In his final 120 ABs, he had a 53/2 K/W. That’s almost impossibly bad.
websoulsurfer
This was a salary dump all the way. Renfroe will be making about $12 million in his last season before FA.
dabrewcrew
What are we doing
Samuel
dabrewcrew;
You have an enviable amount of very good young OF’s.
Samuel
Angels GM has been acquiring young pitchers since he got there.
Brewers are big on developing their own pitchers. They just got 3 youngsters to work with, to go along with the young OF’s they’ll be bringing along this season.
Odd as this might sound in November, the 2023 season will be an exciting year for Brewers fans.
bkbk
I can tell you Seminaris is the only name of that list that has any value.
Samuel
bkbk;
Well, guess you need to get down to the Brewers offices and get a job in their FO to straighten them out!
ChrisEnvy76
Nimmo
helmutk
razzball.com/esteury-ruiz-2023-fantasy-outlook/
fre5hwind
Haha congrats! Now you know what it feels like to be us Pirates!
GMoney2850
Do they? I count uh….checks notes here….zero?
King Floch
Your team’s owner is being a cheapskate.
weo
Renfroe was one of the players that quit on the team. Good riddance. Freeing space for a top 50 prospect who can absolutely rake, will run hard to first base, and wipes Renfroe’s contract off the books is exactly what a smart owner roots for. The Brewers return on this deal is insignificant.
websoulsurfer
LMAO. Renfroe was one of the few Brewers to player better in the 2nd half.
His .266/.333/.504/.837 line and 135 OPS+ was the best from a starter on the team in the 2nd half.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
WEO
I disagree with your conclusion that Renfroe quit on the team. When he is healthy, he is good, not great, but solid with streaky power.
This move only flies for the Brewers if Frelick and Mitchell are ready, as Chourio is a couple years off.
baseballpun
I don’t know, but thanks.
– a Cards fan
yewed
Looks like they’re either cutting payroll to lower their spending or to stay around the same after the arb cases hit.
Samuel
yewed;
They’re taking a step back and rebuilding on the fly – which includes bringing the payroll down.
They have a cache of young OF’s. Need to get more young pitchers to work with, and need to find a couple of catchers – preferably one young – to develop. I believe that Adames will be the only infielder still there after the 2024 trading deadline….and quite possibly before then.
BStrowman
You might as well listen to offers on the real assets if they’re really taking a step back. Time to extract max value would be right now on Burnes.
I think they still want to compete in that division and are trimming some bloated salaries v. Production. They’re great at finding cheap talent.
Probably sell the big arms at the deadline if it’s not going as expected.
yewed
I get their moves to an extent. I mean it didn’t make sense to have your closer be the 2nd highest paid player on the team.
They are one of the top 10 oldest teams in the league. Which doesn’t mean much unless you’re not making the playoffs.
I get rebuilding on the fly but they have a couple pretty good pitchers that are going to want to get paid coming in the next couple years.
At this point it would make sense to me to trade Woodruff at his age and control rather than have the another season of the teams highest payroll and not make the playoffs. Then pay Burnes when the time is right.
stymeedone
They aren’t “taking a step back.” They are simply staying to budget.
brewsingblue82
They don’t really need to field offers for Burnes or Woodruff right now unless they’re blown away by an offer. They’ve still got a solid start in being able to compete for the central, while just needing to add a couple pieces and hope for better production from a couple, as they tend to do, and see where they’re at when the deadline comes. The big key is, that when the deadline comes and they’re still in it, they need to address the concerns they have and not just stand Pat/downgrade as they did last year.
SharksFan91
Problem is the Brewer FO either doesn’t have a clue as to what “max value” is. Or have a completely different idea of what most teams deem as “max value.”
Because I’m guessing if Counsell had his way, the team would be made up of 8 Tellez/Vogelbachs/Shaw types, 4 Sogards, 5 Chase Andersons, and 8 John Rockers.
kripes-brewers
Ha! So true! They want guys who hit for power, which they did, but last years team could not get enough guys on base in front of them to generate enough runs. So, they need some guys who are OBP dudes and a few who are clutch – fellas who can hit with RISP or at least get it deep enough to get a sac fly. It’s a fine line, but you need that healthy mix.
Spike Hyzer
Top 10 oldest was skewed greatly by two completely unproductive players: Cain and Cutch. Narvy and a few others were also right around the 30 mark. Almost all of them will be gone. I like the youth movement. I think some of that talent is way better than what they’ve rolled out on opening day in the last few years.
Spike Hyzer
Not true with their run production. Or in the play offs when you can have a lot of 1-0 or 2-1 games when one HR will win it.
It wasn’t the lack of OBP. They didn’t hit HRs with people on base often. The problem is that everyone would go into a funk all at once, and instead of winning all those close games, they lost a lot more.
Their theory is sound and roster construction is fine. They just had injuries at bad times (Renfroe had a long stint and some shorter ones, and it coincided with their worst losing streaks). And a lot of guys had terrible years (Cain, Cutch).
Dorothy_Mantooth
I think this is a good sign as the Brewers seem more likely to keep Burnes & Woodruff now that they got Hunter’s $11M off the books. With that said; Renfroe is more valuable than his advanced stats show. He’s a clutch hitter with a cannon for an arm and he’s still pretty fast too.
yewed
I replied earlier about Woodruff.. At this point they should trade him. Based on his age,and control and if he’s not a long term plan then trade him now. His stats were also sightly down last season. Based on the current market and the money he makes now should be the time to move him. FA market for pitching the following year will be much better than it is now.
Renfroe is in that limbo zone. Stats vs. pay. He has his goods and his bads.
For as much as I loved in Boston he was equally as frustrating. Led the league in assists but also lead the league in errors. I think his arm over shadows his actual defense.
Still an above average player for sure. I’ll also add that he had a couple IL stints last season.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think this means that they keep Burnes and Woodruff to see if they are in contention at mid-season. If not, one of the two pitchers gets traded.
yewed
I think you’re right but don’t agree with that approach. I think they should trade Woodfruff now.
JoeBrady
Stats vs. pay
=======================
I like the way you put that. Even before TB non-tendered him, I wanted Bloom to go after him. Once he was non-tendered, I though half the teams in BB would put something on the table for him.
But he was a $3.1 player with a 2.3 bWAR. But now he is 31, and will cost $11M. At that cost, he’s good, but not the slamdunk he once was.
GoogleMe
Renfrie hit .329 with no shift against him in 2022. He could be a player that benefits from the new shift rules.
Pads Fans
In his career, 71% of Renfroe’s balls in play have been to the left of straightaway center. Only 4 players with 1000 PA over the last 3 seasons are more pull happy to either side of the field
That being said, there are far fewer extreme shifts for RHB because leaving only the 1B on the right side of the infield doesn’t work well. If he was a LHB he would benefit more, but certainly he will benefit some.
A'sfaninUK
Not committing to a guy who has never had a 3+ WAR season.
You can do better than Hunter Renfroe. He was a 2.5 WAR guy last year, this is a great deal to get out of that middling production.
yewed
For sure, This is the 3rd team that thought his money wasn’t worth his production. A low payroll team, a mid payroll team and a high payroll team.
I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
websoulsurfer
2.7 WAR. You can? Who specifically that is available in trade or FA is better than a 126 OPS+ and 124 wRC+?
Here is the list. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat…
One has already been traded, Teoscar Hernandez. Judge is in another stratosphere.
So who else is better that is available.
Harper? Nope.
Soto? Nope.
Betts, Tucker, or MArte? Nope.
That leaves Arozarena. He is not a FA until after the 2026 season. Would the Rays let him go for 3 lottery ticket relievers that were not in the Angels top 30 prospects? Not on your life.
So educate us on who you are talking about that is better and available.
yewed
I get what you’re saying buto says they need to replace exactly to what is lost?
If a young player comes up and puts up the same stats or similar then what?
If you have a platoon with the same or better numbers then what? If other players on the team raise their game and cover his numbers then what?
A smaller market team turned 1 player into 3.. I have no problem with it. That’s what they should be doing. My only issue is that they should pick a side.
GoogleMe
2.7 wAR and 29 HRs in 125 games. As an Angel fan, I would take those numbers for a whole season. This is big upgrade over Adell and Moniak. He is not an OB guy, but he is still a threat at the plate. The Angels have suffered from having a top heavy lineup with no production from 5-9 spot. Adding a guy like Rehfroe will make the lineup deeper.
Spike Hyzer
Except that’s his 2nd most career PAs in one season.
I just don’t think you are ever going to get a Renfroe who has 700 PAs.
Or even 600.
A'sfaninUK
@yewed you get it
A'sfaninUK
@websoulsurfer
I dont care about anything you have to say. You are a bad faith loser who cant handle I spoke truth to you, now you reply guy me these moronic posts that arent even what I said, why do you think a 2023 2.7 WAR player is the same as 2022? Shut up man stop arguing and just talk pure ball for once, leave the poster out of it, it doesnt matter at all. You wrote all that for no reason, you had no point other than you are getting owned and refuse to tap out.
Deleted Userr
@A’sfaninUK Ask websoulsurfer about his other accounts Pads Fans and outinleftfield. He’ll like that lol.
YourDreamGM
Dumping a nice chunk of money and adding 3 potential bullpen pieces. If just one of these arms becomes useful it will be worth a single year of Hunter. If Hunters hrs drop from 30 to 20 he isn’t nearly as appealing. Not predicting it but it would be in the back of my head. Brewers are doing the smart thing by getting rid of expiring players. They can do well with the additional money.
yewed
I have no doubt on the trade, my only question is the commitment either way. You’ve traded 2 of your highest contracts so what’s next and why?
I realize it’s still early but it doesn’t seem so far that they’re committed either way.
Armaments216
Clearing a spot for Jesse Winker, in a swap for Kolten Wong.
YourDreamGM
@yewed I dunno and they might not know. I do know the smart thing to do if you want a steady contender is trade expiring players. If they get a strong offer on their starting pitching maybe and probably should trade them. If they don’t then get some bats and some arms and see what you can do. Doesn’t matter who they trade, as long as it isn’t a under 4 era starter they can cheaply be replaced. Adames probably needs to stay as well.
SharksFan91
@Armaments216 I hope you’re wrong. Wong should be kept for the coming season. While not a big fan of Renfroe, the return looks terrible for the immediate season and future.
Spike Hyzer
No, but if he EVER gets a full season’s worth of ABs, the 30 jumps to 40 easily.
JackStrawb
@YourDreamGM The problem is, none of the 3 are going to contribute much. Janson’s a 27 yo whose milb career is the very def of a AAAA guy who gets 20 weak innings in the majors a couple of times. Every team needs guys like this in an era where teams put 55-60 guys on the field in any given year, but when he’s on the mound for more than a few innings it’s because your GM didn’t do a better job.
Elvis is a 26 yo with all of 52 innings of decent AAA ball, reflective of luck on fly balls that only made it to the warning track, to show for his upper level experience—that and two horrifying short stints in the majors.
As for Seminaris, he’s a 24 yo with zero success to date in the upper minors.
These are bodies, filler. Every team needs them, but none of them will break with the team after ST unless it’s Janson and five of your expected bullpen guys get hurt in March.
YourDreamGM
@JackStrawb They have been awful. But they have some things going for them. Don’t get hit hard and produce plenty of ground balls. I think MIL develops pitching better than LA. Decent odds they get a solid performance from one of these guys. I’m not impressed with the return but they can get something out of it.
.
2002 All over again WooooOoooooOo!!!! Go Halos!!! Keep grabbing these players fellas I like what I’ve been seeing!
fre5hwind
And hopefully don’t fall off a cliff again.
amk1920
Hunter Renfroe stay with a team for more than one season challenge
orange2001
Isn’t he a free agent after 2023?
nitnontu
I liked Renfrow as a Brewer, but it seemed kind of inevitable that Brewers were going to get this kind of disappointing return for a guy that’s going to be a free agent soon. They are the fourth team in four years that decided not to invest in renfroe long term so apparently they’re not the only team anticipate his long term price to not be worth it.
James Midway
People in San Diego loved him, hope he does well with the Halos.
GMoney2850
Cue 15698389 casuals rushing to claim how bad this return is for Milwaukee while yet again failing to consider the exceedingly low value of average rentals
King Floch
The issue I would take with the deal if I was a Brewers fan would be the deal itself, not the middling return. They need to be adding more offense, not subtracting their best hitter (by measure of OPS+) from last year.
nitnontu
I agree, GMoney. I liked Renfroe as a Brewer, but it seemed kind of inevitable that Brewers were going to get this kind of disappointing return for a guy that’s going to be a free agent soon. They are the fourth team in four years that decided not to invest in renfroe long term so apparently they’re not the only team to anticipate his long term price to not be worth it.
A'sfaninUK
Not me, I love this return. Junk had a really nice K/BB rate at AAA last year. All three are interesting arms with trade value.
GoogleMe
I am not convinced Junk will ever be a major league pitcher. The one guy in the trade that has potential is Peguero. If the Brewers can develop him, He could be a good setup man or closer, but he is far from that right now.
A'sfaninUK
Junk’s BB/K rate last year should tell you he’s a MLB pitcher. If youre looking at ERA at AAA in 2022….you failed.
GoogleMe
All 3 prospects that were traded to the Brewers have struggled in the Angel’s organization. This trade is to see if a change of scenery and new set of coaches will do some good. They are long shots, but it is apparent they were not going to be successful with the Angels.
Janson is going to turn 27 is a couple months. He has struggled at AA, AAA, and the major league level. He has ok command but his stuff isnt amazing.
Seminaris is a soft tossing lefty. He was decent at A+ ball, but was lit up in AA and AAA as one can expect from a prospect with limited velocity.
Peguera is likely the best of the three to have a turn around even if Junk is rated higher. He has the stuff, but as with most tall pitchers it takes time to learn command. Not that he walk a lot but his pitches catch too much of the strike zone. If Mil can get his to repeat mechanics, he will be the most likely to stick at the major league level.
Damakibe
Was kind of hoping KC would add a RH bat like Renfroe, especially when the price was so low (as a salary-dump/spot-opener for MIL)
Dan Rogers
You want Marcel Ozuna? I can make a few phones calls and have him in a plane by morning.
RunDMC
Just make sure one or those calls is to his PO.
.
Halos will pay Ozuna to stay where he is if need be.
abc123baseball
Brewers just gave away their best offensive player. Might as well trade f’ing Burnes.
Henry Silvestre
Padres want Tellez.. we give Wethers lest go..feels like a Padres overpay after that package from LAA
Mario93
Brewers keep trying to stay somewhat competitive over the years when they’re far from good enough. It’s time for a full rebuild… break it completely down, and build it back up from the bottom. Starting with the farm of course.
King Floch
Trading your best hitter when your team needs more good hitters is an…interesting…strategy.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Missed opportunity
Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it works out for ’em
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
If he’s still playing maybe he’ll play for tbe Las Vegas A’s and “has a catch with Hunter Renfrow of the Las Vegas Raiders.
A'sfaninUK
Yelich and Adames are way better offensive players than Hunter Renfroe, a 2.5 WAR guy who grows on trees.
websoulsurfer
They are? So why did Renfroe have a better OPS+ and wRC+? Why was Renfroe’s OPS 70 points higher than Yelich and 50 points better than Adames? Maybe because they are not better offensive players?
King Floch
Renfroe was the best hitter of the three last year. Objectively.
Spike Hyzer
OPS+ says otherwise.
Yelich is far worse. He had the same WAR but 100 more ABs.
Adames had way better WAR, but also 100 more ABs and had more on D than Renfroe (solely because he had WAY more chances at a premium position versus the position with the least chances on the field, where Renfroe had the most OF assists).
If he ever had a full season, Hunter would hit 40 every year.
A'sfaninUK
If you honestly think Renfroe is better than Yelich, you just dont know anything about baseball and are blinded by recency bias. Smh. Yelich hits 35 homers next year and then where will you be?
Spike Hyzer
I’ll probably be lapsed into an apoplectic coma since it’s so unlikely that Yelich will ever hit 20 again (or even 15).
I always said they’d regret the last 3 years of Cain’s contract and was right. I didn’t think the Yelich contract would be worse (and even if he becomes the new Cain, a high OBP guy who scores 100 runs every year, it’s a dramatic overpay).
And what does someone in the UK know about baseball?
NOTHING.
At least I was a 3 year conference all star in HS!
orange2001
I like this move. Ironically, both Junk and Peguero came from the Yankees in the Andrew Heaney trade. So, basically, the Angels traded Heaney for Renfroe.
aragon
lol!
Halo11Fan
I like this move. Now the Angels need RPs. They may have the worst pen in baseball.
Bobcastelliniscat
Reds bullpen says hello
orange2001
Agreed. Also, wouldn’t mind bringing in a veteran catcher to platoon with Stassi.
helmutk
No need. Logan O’Hoppe will supplant Stassi by mid-season
Kruk's Beer League
You’re better off my those reps to O’Hoppe.
carllafong
O’hoppe is catching with Stassi and with the hope that he takes over as the starter– he’s a stud.
websoulsurfer
Stassi won’t start if he stays. O’Hoppe will be given the job. Bring in Vazquez and trade Stassi for a bag of balls and some athletes foot anti-fungal cream.
Tim Stewart
Let’s give Stassi a chance to recover from all those head injuries. I thought he came back too soon, and those head injuries can take a while to recover. Why does no one talk about this? Of course, sometimes that still is not enough time. How many times did they have to go through concussion protocols? The 2 big ones were diving headfirst into a metal bar and getting hit in the head by a swing. I think he wanted to come back soon, and they didn’t have much behind him. They should have made him wait longer in my opinion.
Pads Fans
Anti-fungal cream? That one made me laugh.
User 2079935927
Stassi need to stop pretending he’s Babe Ruth at the plate pointing the bat at the pitcher, And hitting like Babe Ruth’s wife
i like al conin
Not the worst. And their back-end guys improved as the season went on. And Loup and Tepera can revert back to the mean. Both were great in 2021
Halo11Fan
They are projected by WAR as the worst pen in the Majors. I would really like for some of Perry’s moved to work out, maybe this is finally the year.
i like al conin
There’s always some RP diamonds near the end of the off-season. Might get a couple bargains by waiting.
i like al conin
And 6th in SP ERA!
urnuts
I agree they need a closer but the pen is not as bad as you state. We have 2 young power arms come back from injury and should be used in the pen, Canning and Rodriguez.
Find a closer and the pen will be set.
I keep posting raise payroll to $230 million.
A $230 payroll this year allows room for a closer, one more SP, and a SS. AND finally the depth required to be a playoff contender.
carllafong
Canning and Rodruiguez cannot be counted on. Both need to viewed strictly as depth pieces. Rodriguez missed two full seasons with injury, then pitched a few months and has missed another year and a half. His shoulder will not hold up. Canning missed two years as well– he has multiple issues and is fragile. I wish them the best, but the team needs to proceed as if they are not there.
websoulsurfer
They were projected to be the worst in 2022. That didn’t happen either,
urnuts
So why not release them. Your evaluation makes them sound like dead weight.
Often starting pitchers with their injury history come back and thrived in the bullpen. StL has a long history bringing back SP this way with great success.
I guess we will find out in the spring and I hope they make the roster vs being released.
Halo11Fan
Other pens throw gas, the Angels don’t have anyone like that. You need some hard throwers. Everyone in their pen relies on guile, it’s tough to be consistently good without stuff.
cookmeister 2
They both have options I’m pretty sure. He’s not saying they will be released, but counting on them to be key bullpen pieces after essentially not pitching for two years is silly
carllafong
Rodriguez has pitched less than two seasons in his entire career. Back and shoulder issues linger and never heal correctly. Canning dropped to the second round in his draft year because he had a problem elbow. You let them play and hope for the best, but you cannot bank on them making it through a 162 game season when I believe Canning did it only once.
websoulsurfer
Rodriguez got hurt during his rookie season. He missed all of 2022 as a result He will be back in 2023 and healthy.
Halo11Fan
If he’s healthy he may be a huge piece. But the Angels don’t have a 7th, 8th or 9th inning guy who comes close to being a lights out RP.
2021. Perry had one of the most inept off-seasons I’ve ever seen.
2022. Perry tried to address the pen, it didn’t work, but at least he tried. He didn’t do much about position players and depth.
2023. It looks like he’s having a better off-season, but he must address the pen.
carllafong
Excuse me, you missed something– he was hurt for the first two years of his minor league career with a serious back injury. This latest issue is a shoulder problem. The amount of time he has played in his entire professional baseball career is less than one season. I love the player and his stuff when he’s right, but saying he’s healthy is relative to his injuries. The chances that he is able to play an entire season and not go on the DL is highly improbable and if accomplished it will be the first time. He’s never had a season without a serious injury. This isn’t a player with bad luck like Moniak, who broke his hand three different times last year after being hit by pitches in three separate incidents– this is Rodruigez and his body’s structural makeup breaking down.
i like al conin
If he has an option left he’s AAA depth. More depth from Minasian.
Mario93
@Halo11Fan David Phelps can definitely help!!! 36 years old, won’t be expensive was very solid for my Jays last year. Pitched to a 2.83 era last season out of the pen. Will be cheap and most likely a 1 year deal. Angels need to snag him up!
websoulsurfer
Not close. Reds, Pirates, Rockies and 9 other teams were worse.
Halo11Fan
Hey Web. Follow baseball much? The Angels don’t have a Bednar or Bard or Diaz. But they do have Herget, A 29 year old castoff from Texas and the Reds. He’s their bullpen ace. A guy who doesn’t miss bats and is tremendously helped by the shift that is going away.
websoulsurfer
Apparently you don’t. Herget was not the closer last season and is not going to be the closer for the Angels in 2023.
#1 Its November. Spring training starts in February. Lots of time to bring in more bullpen help and Minassian has already said that the Angels are looking for a SS, bullpen help and possibly another starter.
#2 Some of that bullpen help will be internal. Rodriguez is returning and he will be healthy. He has a bowling ball 95-98 mph sinker. Canning will move to the pen and like many failed starters he has the stuff to excel in the pen. By the end of the season the 105 mph throwing Joyce will be in the Angels bullpen. Maybe in April if he has a good spring training.
#3 Herget was better than average in L/STR and S/STR meaning batters missed or didn’t even swing at strikes at a greater clip than other relievers. He also allowed less hard contact than most relievers. Nearly 3% less. He misses bats and when he doesn’t they don’t hit it hard. He is a good setup man.
Halo11Fan
I never said he was their closer, I said he was their best.
So you think deserving of the relief ace title? I heard the same silly comments about Mayers two years ago.
Herget came out of nowhere and is much more likely to return to nowhere than post the numbers he did last year.
That said, I like Rodriguez. Are you willing to bet a season on him…. I’m not.
Pads Fans
There were at least 6 teams that had a worse bullpen than the Angels last season with the Reds, Pirates, and Rockies being among them. I would add the Royals, Red Sox, and Diamondbacks to that list because their bullpens were all over a 4.50 ERA last season. The Angels were under 4.00
In the 2nd half the Angels pen improved to a 3.77 ERA, which was 13th in MLB. They were definitely not terrible down the stretch. More middle of the road.
Going into 2023 they could really use a power arm. Whether that is external or internal remains to be seen. Some bullpen innings will be eaten up by the addition of Canning to the bullpen and Rodriguez is a power arm with a 96-98 mph sinker if he proves to be healthy in spring training.
Canning was not non-tendered, so the Angels are obviously looking to include him on the pitching staff in 2023, but since he has not pitched since 2021 and has never been able to stay healthy a whole season, moving to the bullpen seems the most likely action.
urnuts
Pad Fan your posts are dead on.
Too many Angel fans don’t realize how decent the BP was last year. A few pitched below their abilities but a few younger pitchers pitched well. If they continue to improve and the 2 who pitched below abilities bounce back, add one more solid BP piece (closer) and if just one of Canning/Rodriguez stays healthy and pitches to their ability we have a BP. Going out and signing 3 relief pitchers will cost $25 million or more and would be a mistake.
We also don’t need a catcher. Vasquez will be too expensive and no one will take on Stassi’s contract. If he is somewhere between last year and 2 years ago that is fine. They would not have traded Marsh if they did not believe O’Hoppe could not start by mid season.
Needed in this order – Closer, SS, SP. I hope they budget $30-33 million for this. Build depth!
Halo11Fan
This isn’t about last year it’s about the pieces out their for this year. The pieces don’t have stuff, if the are on, they have guile. If.
Is there any Angel fan who has the least bit of confidence in Tepera or Loup. Every Angel fan knows it. And their ace, Herget was cut by both Texas and Cincinnati.
This bullpen is projected dead last in WAR in 2023 for just that reason. Right now that’s what we are talking about.
Plugnplay
I have confidence in them. There good Relief pitchers, not great, but good. As we know, most good RP’s sprinkle in a below average year in 1 out of 3’ish. I would expect a bounce back from both Loup and Tepera.
There not Starters, they don’t get 160+ innings to recover from a couple extra bad outings.
Halo11Fan
I don’t have confidence in them and Perry should not bet the season, and subsequently Ohtani on them.
Tim Stewart
Bottom line, they need a closer. Part of the problem last year might be Loop and Tepera were not in the role they were in They were setup men in the past and were strong to start the year. The problem is that dependable closers are hard to find. If they find one , I think that is enough to win. If not, the more viable options the better.
kingsfan1968
Angels going all in for 1 year before Godzilla leaves!
Samuel
kingsfan1968;
Actually, this’ll get him to stay (he doesn’t want to leave).
And that’s what the last 2 seasons of moves have been all about.
kingsfan1968
Perhaps, But I think he goes to the Dodgers!
orange2001
If the Angels get to the ALCS or the World Series, why would Ohtani want to leave? He clearly loves the team, his teammates, and he lives in SoCal. He just wants a chance to compete and win… and he may finally get that with the Halos.
Henry Silvestre
Astros/Mariners/Rangers.. seems like a lot to get through just to get in
User 2079935927
Rangers? Seriously?
Samuel
orange2001;
The area he lives in is one of the nicest places to live in America if one has lots of money. The weather’s nice. Lots to do. Mingle with other successful people.
.
His olympian gold medal winning GF is a SoCal native as well. He stays in Anaheim.
Tim Stewart
I think he does like it here, but the part about that being a girlfriend is just click bait stuff. She just wanted a picture with him. The Japanese media would be all over it if was anything. They have reporters over there that are just covering Ohtani stuff.
stymeedone
Playing for another team does not mean he has to move. He should be able to afford a second residence.
stymeedone
Money, of course. The sale of the team and its timing will be a big part of the negotiations. They may not be as attractive to a buyer with another major obligation on the books. The new owner may want the blame from fans placed on the current owner. Plus, if it was all about comfort, he’d still be playing in Japan.
Tim Stewart
His nick name is Showtime. Godzilla Played there too. He already left a long time ago. Hideki Matsui.
.
Halos have been doing their fan base proud this off-season. Keep going fellas. Grab another bat and 2 relievers and we can call it a day.
Ron Hayes
Don’t stop there!
carllafong
Nooooo! We need a top of the rotation starter and three bullpen arms.
.
Carla, we got a solid starter in Anderson. We can’t get greedy! 2 bullpen arms not 3!
GoogleMe
They are definitely not getting 3. Herget, Loup, Tepera, and Barria will be in the pen to start 2023.
User 2079935927
Sign Trea to play SS and work on the BP
.
Don’t tease us Winslow..
outinleftfield
With the team up for sale I don’t think we will see any deals longer than the Anderson deal. That would rule out Turner or any of the big 4 SS.
If Arte did spring for one of those 4, I would want Correa just to rub it in the Astros face for the next decade.
DarkSide830
Junk in, junk out
Samuel
DarkSide830;
MLB is not rotisserie league.
Franchises are rewarded when they bring along the players they have under contract. I’d think that a Phillies fan that followed the team in 2022 would know this.
BStrowman
The crew are a good org.
Don’t know that they got much more here that couldn’t have been scoured
on the waiver wire though. Brewers will work with the arms, no doubt.
There’s obviously a disconnect between public perception of Renfroe and what org.’s consider his value to be once he’s in their clubhouse.
He gets traded around like a rotisserie league player
Always the analytically inclined organizations getting in and getting out on this guy too.
TB to Boston to Milwaukee.
BStrowman
Junk has a pretty good slider though. I’m sure the Brewers have some kind of pitch data on this guy that makes them think they can turn him into a very effective reliever.
Wouldn’t count them out. I expect Wong to be gone next.
Spike Hyzer
I do too about Wong. Urias to 2B. Trade for Paredes to play 3B.
Then all we need is a Catcher and to shore up the pen (and maybe a 6th starter, though we may have one among these guys who is already better than Alexander).
hiflew
Hunter Renfroe is this generation’s Reggie Sanders. Good enough to stay in the league forever, but not good enough to stay with a team for more than a year.
YourDreamGM
Reggie seems better. Reds liked him.
baseballteam
Don’t look now – the Angels a re building a team!
YourDreamGM
Best build they had in years.
Deleted Userrr
Fourth new team in four years eh?
.
Close Jim…5th in 6.
seamaholic 2
Guess we’ll finally get our Jo Adell trade.
websoulsurfer
Probably not. Might get a Fletcher trade if they add a true shortstop.
bkbk
The most underrated part of this trade is that wiith Trout and Renfroe on the same team, you will be unable to physcially tell them a part. Go google their faces next to each other.
Spike Hyzer
Maybe they can get Trout 8 ABs a game then.
puigpower
Renfroe and Trout are lookalikes. Makes sense
steven st croix
Think they can get that much back when they have to trade him at the deadline?
Deleted Userr
Guess they aren’t trading Ohtani then. This trade makes no sense if they do.
stymeedone
Sure it does. Its only a one year commitment to Renfroe. They could trade them both at the deadline if things don’t work out.
Deleted Userr
I meant they weren’t trading Ohtani during the offseason. I see both guys going at the deadline. If they want to contend in 2023 keeping Ohtani is a must. And if they don’t then trading for Renfroe was pointless.
Angels fan 75
Does anyone think they will go get a shortstop? Or run with what they have? Trade Jo adell, Sam Bachman and Arol Vera to the royals for Scott Barlow!
troutfishing
I dont think another SS is in the cards. Most of the Angels infield are solid utility guys so Rengifo, Gio, Soto and if need be Fletch can all play short.
carllafong
If they don’t go get a shortstop they’ll give Livan Soto a chance to win the job in spring if he continue what he started in September.
bkbkbkbk
100% they’re going to get a SS
Halo11Fan
I don’t know if they will. The lineup is pretty deep. Soto might be able to play and Velazquez can field. They need a bullpen…again
Plugnplay
Your 100% is close, only if we knew they’d bud up against the cap at spend 230m plus. If not, you might just see them get a closer and call it an off-season.
We all just don’t know what Arte’s going out with a bang spending party is, We’ll see soon.
James Midway
I think the Gio move pretty much was it on that front.
HalosHeavenJJ
I’d bet against a shortstop. Urshela, Fletcher, and Rengifo can all play multiple positions.
The sale of the team likely eliminates a mega free agent.
I’ve also heard the organization is very high on 2022 first round pick Neto and think he’ll be up as soon as 2024.
stymeedone
Rosario in Cleveland would fit. Option year, so a rental just like Renfroe.
outinleftfield
The Angels have one shot at Ohtani wanting to stick around and that is competing now. To do that Minassian needs to get a shortstop and free Urshela to play 3B when Rendon gets hurt and 1B when Walsh is hurt. .
It doesn’t have to be one of the big 4, but there are a couple that would be a solid upgrade and a FA at the end of the season. Then if Soto or Neto are ready to take the job full time in 2024, no one is blocking them or eating up payroll long term.
websoulsurfer
I think they are going to trade for Amed Rosario. Not a superstar, but a really good defensive player that put up a 4.2 WAR in 2022 who is a rental. He won’t cost much, just like Renfroe.
websoulsurfer
The other thing is Rosario is a FA after 2023 so he doesn’t block Soto or Neto.
outinleftfield
That is the one.
GoogleMe
I don’t see them getting a SS. I envision Gio will be the 1B until Walsh returns from rehab assignment. Once Walsh returns, he will play 1B against left handed starters. Urshela will also give Rendon 1 day off per week at 3rd. He will also get a start at SS and 2nd, once or twice per week against righties. The rest of the 2nd base and SS duties will be split between Fletch, Soto, and Rengifo.
The Angels still have more glaring holes to fix like the bullpen. This should be the next step to address this offseason.
outinleftfield
What is interesting to me is that a few days ago Minassian said that if the season started today that Rengifo was the starting 2B. Not Fletch. Rengifo.
Dbacks44
they will score 10 and give up 12. need pitching. Anderson was a horrible move if they think that will solve it. Before the dodgers he was a number 4 or 5. They always do the same thing. Hope to turn a back end starter into a ace. Like my dbacks looking for gold in the wrong spots. But Hazen is brilliant. Just doesn’t have money to spend like the angels
Halo11Fan
The Angels need starting pitcher? Yet another poster who doesn’t follow baseball.
Dbacks44
Brother I know a million times more than you. Your an idiot. Just cause people say it all the time shows that they haven’t gotten better. Please for the love of me tell me why every year they don’t get better? Your lineup is stacked with hitting. Sandoval Suarez is not enough. You can’t depend on One guy. Just a keyboard funny guy. I work with MLB coaches and coach baseball? What do you do?
Halo11Fan
You try insulting me and write “your an idiot.”
You’re hilarious. Not that I care, but which one of the five Angels starters do you not think is any good?
Let’s say Suarez is number 5. He had a second half ERA of 2.81. And he’s their 5th starter. Learn something.
websoulsurfer
What you do 44, is lie and not well.
The Angels starting pitching staff is solid. Last season they ranked 6th in ERA and WAR and 7th in FIP.
That staff lost only Syndergaard and added Anderson. Canning should return as well, although probably in the pen. They are better in 2023 already than they were in 2022.
Ohtani, Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, Suarez is a very nice starting 5. They could use some depth beyond Canning and Silseth, but its only November.
Anyone who paid attention would know that they are a good starting staff and everyone that works in baseball has been saying that for a year now.
JoeBrady
Dbacks443 hours ago
Brother I know a million times more than you. Your lineup is stacked with hitting.
==============================
Well, did you know that the Angels ranked 25th in scoring? They have two great hitters, once good hitter, two mediocre hitters and 4 hitters that don’t hit their weight,.
With a little better health, and these two new additions, they might be slightly above league average.
FWIW, my position is that they should punt on 2023, trade Ohtani for a haul, and base their mini-rebuild on their rotation.
Dbacks44
Couldn’t give one rats ass if you both believe me or not.So explain to me why you fire a great coach and you finished 16 games under 500? The need a solid rotation and they don’t have it. You need an innings eater. There is no excuse for this many years to be this bad with the money they have and spent. Rendon was am awful move. Same for pujols. If it wasn’t for ohtani your team would be horrible. He saved their ass. There comes a time where results have to matter. Mariners have overtaken you because they can pitch!! So can the astros! learn the game before you both just start looking st stats that you Google.
urnuts
44 – The goal is to outscore your opponent. Adding more SPing will not address the elephant in the room but will lead to many 3-2 defeats.
Last year only 5 teams in all of baseball scored fewer runs. And after 6 weeks they were a top 3 team in run differential and one of the best records in MLB. Only 8 teams had a better era at seasons end.
So what would you do to improve?
Fyi- Last year the Angels were undefeated when they outscored the opponent by at least 1 run.
Halo11Fan
The hitting was an issue. I have to feel the additions of Hunter, Rendon, Walsh, Fletcher and O’Hoppe will help that. Not to mention Urshela and the possibility of Trout not missing over 40 games.
I can see the lineup being pretty good. I can see the starting pitching being pretty good. What I can’t see is the bullpen being any good… but March is a long ways off.
JeffreyChungus
2019 called, they want their tired narratives back
cookmeister 2
The angels were 9th in team ERA last year in mlb
Halo11Fan
And their starting five were great in the second half. Every team need more pitching, but if the Angels need more starting pitching, then so do 27 other teams.
outinleftfield
Starting pitching was better than that. They were 6th best. Anderson certainly doesn’t make the rotation worse.
stroh
This is Renfroe’s 5th team in 5 years!!! Yet his stats look respectable. I wonder what’s up. The trade on paper looks lopsided in favor of the Angels if it weren’t for the frequent movement of this guy.
YourDreamGM
Rays wanted him. Were disappointed and didn’t want to pay him. Boston fans are still asking why they got rid of him. Milwaukee wants to trade expiring players and all 3 of these relievers are what they like to add and work with.
OaklandA'sFan!
Good return for the Angels, but I think they are focusing more on offense then pitching, they should focus more on their bullpen.
troutfishing
They likely aren’t finished, but they aren’t in terrible shape as it is. They are at least middle of the pack if not above average in their bulpen. Rodriguez should be back, Canning could move to the pen, Barria was solid, Herget was fantastic last year, Wantz is showing a lot of promise, Loup, Tepera and Quijada are all serviceable. Angels had one of the best pitching staffs in Aug 2022. They definitely could use another lights out guy, but to think of them as subpar would be false.
angelsfan4life
25th in runs scored. Ninth in team ERA. They can add a closer yet. Hopefully find a team to take Stassi, for anything.
Tim Stewart
Don’t throw Stassi away. He was hurt let’s see after an offseason to recover from his head injuries. He was one of the better catchers going into 22.
Devlsh
Cardinals will give you Paul DeJong for him.
HalosHeavenJJ
Taking a look at how dominant the AA bullpen was last year, that should change soon.
For now we need to take a chance in a guy like Rogers preferably with a Boxger or Phelps level guy to supplement him.
Tim Stewart
Really, what this team needs is someone that takes a lot of the chance out of it. we really need a closer that can be counted on to close. Those are hard to come by so they might need more options that can increase the odds. The 2 back of the bullpen veteran guys might bounce back but I don’t think they should be used as a closer after what they showed last year and have not been really used like that before. They lost last year because they could not close out games otherwise the pitching was good enough to win. Even with the injuries lack of depth and so on, they probably could have had a winning record if the bottom of the order move runners and get guys in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. They were the opposite of the Mariners. One had an amazing record in close games and the other an amazingly bad record. The funny thing is even with those records the Angels won the season series including some close games.
angelsfan4life
Tim, Stassi is going to be 32 at the start of next season. You want to keep a 32 year old catcher, with a bad hip. Who as soon as he got that 3 year deal, he went back to not being able to hit. His defense has always been overrated. In two years, the Angels will DFA him, because he won’t be able to play anymore.
Tim Stewart
I understand his age and hip. I just think he may improve a lot with some rest and recovery. He could or not . He was a pretty good catcher, something that is hard to find right now. Also it is always good to keep some continuity at catcher especially when the pitching has improved when he was catching. The Angels have been changing catchers’ a lot lately. Why do you say his defense is overrated?
GoogleMe
Stassi is Ohtani’s guy. Stassi isn’t going anywhere as long as Ohtani is there.
outinleftfield
We have a couple guys coming back that will help in the pen. Rodriguez and Canning. Yes, I know canning was a starter, but with all his injuries I think he needs to take the path that former starters like Brand Hand and Kirby Yates did when they went to the Padres.
There is also this guy named Ben Joyce. Remember his name. He throws 105 mph. He was drafted and went straight to AA and dominated. Just bring him up and let him throw 105 for 1 inning 3-4 times a week.
SODOMOJO
Poor Fro. Always producing, always getting traded.
i like al conin
And funny too with this being his last year of arb and able to move again next year.
Angels fan 75
Maybe a trade with the Tigers for Joe Jimenez for the pen!
stubby66
I’m not judging this until after spring training. We made the trade early enough in the off-season so these pitchers can get into Milwaukees pitching lab for work to be done.Brewers do a great job in getting the most out of pitchers.
YourDreamGM
Brewers fans should trust these moves by now. Seems they win more trades than lose.
troutfishing
Halos are looking solid!
Now for Senga!
(and if your reading this Perry, trade for Maeda! :D)
alwaysgo4two
Why a solid bat along with above average defense keeps bouncing from team to team baffles me. From the Padres to the Rays, to the Red Sox, the Brewers, and now the Angels. What am I missing?
King Floch
His skillset is both desirable and replaceable.
YourDreamGM
All those teams are active traders and 2 of them are extremely thrifty.
Mario93
Urshela now Renfroe. Two very solid additions to a team that could use the help. Keep adding Angels! Ohtani is gonna wanna leave if you don’t contend. Keep making smart moves, smart additions, it’s nice to see.
Ron Hayes
5th team in 5 years by 30. What’s the deal. Junk.
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
Does this cue ridiculous Jo Adell and prospects for Pablo Lopez from the Fish comments??
HalosHeavenJJ
To say I’m stoked right now would be an understatement.
AverageCommenter
I understand cost cutting but the Brewers have just acquired -1 war. Something about Renfroe must make GMs want to trade him for horrible value.
Mario93
Maybe they think they can make something out of one or a couple of those arms. Who knows. But yeah, brewers dove into the dumpster hoping to find treasure.
AverageCommenter
I should specify that’s career bWar of all three combined
carllafong
This is what they need– league average or better players at every position. No more triple-A talent posing as big leaguers.
websoulsurfer
The Angels are also starting to build some depth.
3B Rendon backed up by Urshela
SS Urshela backed up by Soto
2B Rengifo backed up by Fletcher
1B Walsh backed up by Urshela and Thaiss
Now they need to shore up catcher by signing Vazquez and trade for a SS like Rosario.
Then they can trade Fletcher and Stassi.
User 2079935927
Fletch stays.
websoulsurfer
Why? Outside of 2020 he has never been good enough to be a starter. The Angels have the depth now to move on from him as their utility guy.
orange2001
More like Rengifo is Fletcher’s backup at 2B.
websoulsurfer
Rengifo had a 103 OPS+ last year and played above average defense. Fletcher had a 77 OPS+ and played above average defense but was hurt much of the season.
Rengifo is 25 and improving. Fletcher is 28 and declining.
I don’t think this is a difficult call and that Minassian referred to Rengifo as the starting 2B in the intro press conference for Urshela says he is of the same mind.
Saint Nick
This move does not make any sense for MIL. Not sure what they were thinking. Angels are really improving. They are a couple moves away from being a solid 2nd place in that division and probably a WC team.
HBan22
They are thinking about being extremely cheap. They are a team that was built to win until they decided to throw in the towel for being unwilling to spend money.
Redstitch108* 2
Junk projects as a future 4th starter, so he will be decent for the Brewers. Besides, gotta love the name.
YourDreamGM
Lots of players available. They can still contend if they choose.
Echopark
If I’m a Brewers fan, I’m super pissed about this trade for 15 minutes, until I realize, wait a second, that means we don’t have to trade Burnes, Woodruff or Adames to save the money!!
kripes-brewers
And the choice came down to Wong or Renfroe…
brewers1970
I’ll bet that Wong is available too.
brewers1970
Exactly! It’s a salary dump while hoping the triple A kids can replace him.
brewers1970
Renfroe is a good defender. The metrics don’t properly account for his rocket arm. He’s kept a lot of runners from taking extra bases. Too bad the Brewers couldn’t afford his projected salary.
johndietz
Very consistent bat. Hopefully we get his free agent, career walk year
BarrelMan
He’s a good bat but tends to be streaky with production.
neurogame
Joe Adell seems sooooooo old now. But he’s just 23. I wonder if he just needs a change of scenery. He was such a highly coveted prospect. a
Angels would be selling low on him.
websoulsurfer
Every team needs depth and Adell provides it. He can come off the bench, still get in about 400 AB, and work on bringing out that talent.
orange2001
No way you get 400 ABs from a bench player, unless a starting position player goes down for a couple of months.
websoulsurfer
113 players got 300+ AB while playing in the OF in 2022. There are 90 starting spots. That means at least 23 bench players got more than 300 AB.
On the Angels you have 3 OF that did not play more than 135 games because of injuries, so the 4th OF is going to get more AB than most bench players.
In 2022 the Angels got 541 AB from guys not named Trout, Ward, Marsh or Adell in the OF.
Definitely a way that a bench player gets 400 AB on the Angels.
GoogleMe
Angels will probably hold on to Adell. He will probably start in AAA this year and maybe get himself right next year. The Angels aren’t exactly deep in their organization when it comes to the OF position. They got 2 prospects in DeJesus and Rada, but they are 17 yo and years away from the major leagues. Renfroe is only here for one year before he becomes a free agent.
TGH31
As a Brewers fan I am definitely ok with this deal. Not much in return but Renfroe wasn’t a fit this year for our financial outlook. We traded a strength to backfill with our only area of multiple talented prospects. I suspect that at least two of Ruiz/Frelick/Mitchell/Weimer can fill with Yelich/Taylor. Not ideal but I understand our financial spot and how 1 year of Renfroe at 11 Million isn’t quite a match for what we need to address in the offseason (especially with our OF prospects). Lack of quality arms in the upper minors makes this trade make sense. By no means are the 3 guys we are getting great arms but they should fill the 40 man to fill the shuttle approach we take with our relievers.
SharksFan91
Some of these owners keep crying “poverty” and woes me. Yet, still keep their team. There’s a difference between being a “small market” and being CHEAP! Stop making excuses for some of these team owners.
User 2079935927
Elvis has left Anaheim
carllafong
A little less conversation and more action.
James Midway
I like the move. Only 2 people have hit the ball on top of the western metal building FT Jr and Renfroe, Renfroe did it twice. Lots of power and a great arm.
cpdpoet
FREE Mickey Moniak
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
Knowing the Phillies luck, he’ll come out and hit 30 bombs at like a tick under .300.
A'sfaninUK
Really fits well on the A’s actually, lets hope Beane comes calling.
Moniak for Pache challenge trade?
troutfishing
I hope the Angels give him a chance. He seems to have natural baseball talent and just needs that spark to ignite it. Maybe playing alongside Trout and Ohtani will give him a boost. Also, he doesn’t seem to be under nearly as much pressure at the moment compared to his time in Philly. Setting is right for him to start shining.
Good luck Micky!
outinleftfield
Trout, Ward and Renfroe are all guys that spend time on the IL every year. Either Moniak or Adell is going to get some serious at bats.
cpdpoet
Between not getting a real chance, getting yanked around by Girardi and getting hurt…..Moniak has not been given a shot..
He had a ton of pressure to produce in Philly as they have been in a constant “playoff type” push since 2018…
I was stoked about the Angels trade…He got there, hit in @10g then got hurt…
In no way am I saying he’s Griffey, would love to see him get a legit shot as a Phillies fan.
hiflew
Even free, he is still overpriced.
BirdieMan
Now that he’s an Angel, he’ll regress and hit .210.
BStrowman
Depth is always good…..I suppose.
But Gio Urshela is?
Rengifo is kinda already your Swiss Army knife.
Trout, Renfroe, Ward are your OF’s.
Depth is good but Urshela hasn’t actually been a versatile major leaguer. I don’t know about that one. I would’ve liked to see them get a real SS instead. Maybe there’s more to come.
User 2079935927
When Angels made the Urshela trade he said in the press conference he said they were far from done. He said they were looking for a OF and a SS and BP pieces. He also said they weren’t to happy with who they had to throw out there in INF when the regulars went down. I think Management. Has given Perry Carte Blanche.
BStrowman
I’d rather trade for an Urshela during the season and pay a fraction of that /that salary when there’s other more pressing holes. If that is even a need at that point.
Hopefully you’re right. I don’t know. You’re sort of trying to turn Urshela into a super utility type I guess. But at 10MM he isn’t a bargain and there’s already Rengifo.
Plugnplay
Call Gio what u want, but he’ll be playing every day somewhere. Rengifo is the utility guy.
outinleftfield
Depth was one of the team’s biggest issues last season. When guys went down with injuries, AAAA after AAAA player had to pick up the slack and it wasn’t pretty.
outinleftfield
Minassian also said that Rengifo was the starting 2B if the season started today. Showing no faith in Fletch.
HBan22
Hey, the Brewers pulled a Red Sox! Trading Renfroe for absolutely nothing.
Rsox
The Hunter Renfroe MLB tour continues thru Anaheim as the Angels will be his 5th team in the last 5 seasons.
Johnny Bravo
hunter Renfrow 60 bombs in 2 years
Chris Koch
Brewers found 3 Relief pitchers to shuttle this season. They also opened up playing time for whichever Rookie OF wins it next season. That salary saved can be used elswhere needed. Remember where this started, JBJ. Super trade from that perspective.
Big whiffa
Just as long as they reinvest what they saved. 120 mil is more or less break even point before selling one ticket so they have plenty of room to spend.
Angels & NL West
Gio and Hunter lengthen the lineup having outhit every Angels position player except Mike, Shohei and Ward. Anderson lengthens the rotation. None of them broke the bank or preclude further deals. More work to be done, but outstanding start to the off-season for Perry.
Let’s hope for better health in ’23 and contributions from some minor league arms – Silseth, Bachman, Rodriguez, Canning, Bush, Costeiu, Torres and Murphy.
websoulsurfer
3-4 more moves to come for the Angels.
Sign deGrom to 3/135 deal. Arte does not mind spending big money on short term deals for pitchers and he doesn’t mind injury risks as long as the player is an impact player on the field and at the ticket office.
Sign Christian Vazquez. Another 3 year deal. Just 105-108 million less than deGrom.
Trade Stassi. Doesn’t need to be for much. A relief pitcher in AA is fine.
Trade for Amed Rosario. He is a big upgrade, makes Fletcher expendable, and is a one year rental like Gio, so he doesn’t clog up the payroll long term.
A'sfaninUK
deGrom’s not signing a 3 year deal lmao
websoulsurfer
Everyone, and I mean everyone, is predicting a 3 year deal for deGrom. The only question is who will he sign that 3 year deal with?
Scroll down to #7 – mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/mlb-trade-rumors-top-50…
One team we know he won’t sign with is the A’s. The Angels are a different story.
Deleted Userrr
Not a single one of those people knows deGrom personally. Could definitely see him and his agent shooting for 4 or even 5 years.
websoulsurfer
Oops, forgot sign a relief pitcher or two.
BrewCrewin162
The Brew Crew are obviously clearing Right Field for Judge.
A'sfaninUK
Or are acquiring all these pitchers so they can trade for Arozarena.
A'sfaninUK
I like this return for the Brewers here, but am not as high on Renfroe being a beast in the AL West like many are. Not sure he moves the needle for the Angels, they’re still miles behind the Astros and Mariners.
Plugnplay
Miles behind? Lol, we’ll just see about that when all’s said and done.
A'sfaninUK
Yeah, the Angels are garbage outside of Trout/Ohtani and their record always proves my point.
orange2001
“Miles” behind Seattle who hadn’t been to the playoffs in 22 years. That’s laughable. The Angels were better than Seattle going into July—but it’s hard to remain competitive without Trout, Rendon, and Fletcher. A healthy Angels roster plus the new offseason additions will make things very interesting in the AL West.
A'sfaninUK
Make the playoffs ONE TIME with Trout and Ohtani, and then we might take you seriously. My A’s have been in the final dance more times more recently than your Angels, with much less talent.
DTD/ATL1313
Was really hoping this was who Atl would go after to sure up LF. Oh well, the Angels made a heck of a deal here and have gotten much better this off-season without spending much in the way of money or prospects.
GarryHarris
This is a good trade for both teams.
It’s obvious why Hunter Renfro improves the Angels but for the Brewers it’s not so obvious until you look at their MiLB. First, Christian Yelich must be moved to DH. I have no doubt that Sal Frelick will take over an OF spot. Joey Wermer may audition but i predict Tristan Peters will be in the OF by season’s end.
Garrett Michell is a mystery to me much like Jo Adell in LAA is. It doesn’t mean I think he’s a bad player bit I don’t see what the hype is about.
BBB
Peters was traded to the Giants in August for Trevor Rosenthal, then flipped again to the Rays last week (not that the Brewers couldn’t get him back somehow if they really wanted to, I suppose).
GarryHarris
Thanks for the update. I guess im not following as closely as I thought I was.
Simm
There was a lot of talk about the brewers non tendering renfroe so the fact that they got anything in return at least means they made the right decision. Does it help the brewers this year prob not.
Angels should be a little better with renfroe on the team.
Seems like both teams accomplished what they wanted from this. I’d rather this return for renfroe then what the red Sox got for him.
This isn’t much of a needle mover for either team.
If I was the brewers or a fan anyways I would want the team to pick a direction. They have enough talent that adding to the team could make them a legit playoff team. If they aren’t going to add then they should trade burnes and woody for a huge ransom so they can rebuild quickly.
Trying to ride the middle and not completely rebuild but not completely compete seems like a rockies move here.
So far the brewers moves just aren’t making a lot of sense.
SharksFan91
“Trying to ride the middle and not completely rebuild, but not completely compete” is the Brewer way. Been that way for 50+ years while crying “small market.” Which is garbage.
Spike Hyzer
Frelick will not be a star. Weimer is a complete crapshoot. Peters will be a bust. Ruiz is a 4 or 5 at best.
Mitchell is the second coming of Kris Bryant. Taylor will hit 35 if he ever gets more than 250 ABs.
I agree about Yeli sharing a DH platoon with the 1B guys, if people can stand having an OBP machine at the position rather than a power hitter, but being convinced Frelick will be great or Peters will EVER play in MLB is ludicrous in light of what Mitchell has shown already. Elite defender. Good bat. HR power. What more could you want in CF?
Means they should trade Frelick. His value has never been better. Package him with Wong and get a real 3B.
Redstitch108* 2
I worry about an aging guy who hits .250 and strikes out a lot. Given recent history of similarly profiled hitters the Halos have brought on, that is sure to be exacerbated. He’s also bounced around frequently, so none of his teams were all that enthralled by his services apparently.
99socalfrc
Look at the price each team paid for him though. It’s not that noone liked his services it’s just that they gave up nothing for him and he becomes a flip piece. The Red Sox got him from the Rays off waivers and the Brewers got him for JBJ.
I’m sure the Brewers loved him they just don’t want to pay any $$$. He is a great fit for the Angels because of their pending sale. One year of Arb left and the new owner can keep him or move on.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Well they’re trying. Renfroe is not a bad player but I feel he is limited.
whyhayzee
Fifth team in five years.
That says something?
Cheeseman Forever
Brewers will likely make a big FA signing at 1B or catcher (or both). They have the payroll flexibility and an owner who is likely to spend more, not less, after missing the playoffs. They also have a bunch of majors-ready outfielders ready to be promoted.
Spike Hyzer
3B. And I pick Paredes.
1B is set with Rowdy, Hiura and Singleton (which also fills the DH spot, though I think the majority of Yeli’s starts should be there as well).
pmollan
As a Brewer fan, once you realize the goal is to NOT win a World Series, but instead maintain a “competitive” team to get 2+ million fans into he park year in, year out, this all becomes a lot easier.
SharksFan91
@pmollan Hit the nail on the head!
It’s a shame more Brewer fans don’t realize that. Then again, they don’t care as long as the team doesn’t look too urban.
Big whiffa
Brewers doing they best Rays impression and their fans are freaking out. Rightfully so. Hopefully their management proves us all wrong. If not, a clear debacle tearing down a winning team like this !
Jerry Cantrell
Brewers doing their best to make the central division even easier to win. Thanks!!!!!
Robertguyette
The Brewers have enough young OF’s ready to fill the opening day lineup.
Mitchell showed he is ready.
Ruiz posted a .447 OBP and 85 SB’s last year, needs to be in the lineup.
Frelick’s OBP at every level has shown he can make great contact to get on base.
Both have great range in the OF to help the pitching staff.
The next move will be trading Wong, in order to let Turang play 2B.
Defensively this lineup will be much better than last year’s team. With the hope that these guys will be on base more when Tellez, and Adames pop their HR’s.
I do hope that they take the money that Wong, Renfroe, Hader, and McCutheon were getting and lock up Adames and Woodruff to 5 year deals, so that we have that core of players that fans are comfortable buying a jersey of, Yet won’t hinder the team from making moves in the future.
-I really didn’t expect any more in return for Renfroe. Look at what it cost to get him last year. This is not a guy that GM’s value. He’s now more expensive, and has only one year of control remaining. Making his value this off season the same as last.
SharksFan91
Perfect example. See my earlier comment regarding Brewers’ “fans.”
Spike Hyzer
Close. Urias to 2B and Turang takes Peterson’s super sub role.
Stormintazz
4 teams in 7 years would lead me to believe Renfroe was a problem in the Clubhouse.
SupremeZeus
The Crew cutting payroll to pay the Yelich boat anchor tax.
sliderwithcheeze
They’ll be a better team once they trade Ohtani. If they really wanted to go for it, they trade him this offseason and make themselves contenders for years with the return. Let some other team deal with the novelty and injury risk that he brings.
warnbeeb
Renfroe is one of the sneakiest, under the radar, really good baseball players out there. I loved him with the Red Sox and could not understand their trading him for washed up Jackie Bradley Jr. et al. He has a cannon for an arm and is worth the price of admission just in hopes you can see him gun someone down at 3rd or home.
Halos got a good deal. Good player.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Sad to see him go. That’s going to be a tough piece to replace for the Brewers.
rememberthecoop
Meh. Gets on base about 31% of the time. Obviously solid power though. Angels making some noise. I believe once a big piece comes off the board – Judge or one of the 4 shortstops – then the market will pick up. But it’s going to be painfully slow from a FA standpoint until then, so trades are all we got. Let’s go!
JoeBrady
Aahhh, just yesterday I posted that the Angels should publicly commit to Adell to be their starting LF, and not mess around with him anymore (although a full-season trip to AAA might work).
Just like with Urshela, Renfroe is a solid piece. But at a combined $19M, I’m not sure how much they move the needle. They now have $33M left to spend before breaking the cap, and I am not impressed with their catcher, 1B, SS, or closer.
vaderzim
Ref roe is a good pickup, but I think this is the Angels panicking since Texas is willing to spend this off-season.
As for Renfroe, I have to wonder why he gets traded seemingly every offseason.
GoogleMe
i doubt the Rangers spend as much as they spent last year, Corey Seagar and Semien were like a half a billion.by themselves.
nailz#4life
What matters most about all of this is that AAAA player Renfroe generated over 300 comments, and the Angels gave up 3 players for him. LOL! You might have thought this was actually a big legit trade
Ma4170
Wow, the Angels are actually filling in some of those complementary pieces behind Ohtani and Trout like their fans have been begging for. Not that Renfroe is amazing, but they don’t need that – they need solid, and he’ll give you lots of power and decent fielding. I thought they’d be a good landing spot for Conforto and a bounceback, but this probably puts that to bed. Or even haniger. And Anderson was a solid signing, especially for the price.
For Angels fans, would you want the team to go for a FA like Bogaerts or Swanson, or just keep filling in these stronger depth pieces?
outinleftfield
The team is up for sale so I think Anderson type deals are the longest Arte is going to let Minassian make. Still some great trades and signings that can be made. Trade for a 1 year rental at SS. Rosario would fit that bill perfectly. Sign Vazquez at catcher. Sign a former closer like Hand, Rogers, or Knebel.
Just say no to Swanson. Too inconsistent. If I had a choice and Arte was going to pony up the cash, I would want Correa. I think he is better than the others and it would be nice to rub that in the Astros face for a decade.
MannyPineappleExpress9
I don’t know if this move means MKE will actually commit to the young guys, or pick up some other reclamation project (jbj available this winter..?).
Either way, they got rid of a decent chunk of offense, even if he was rather streaky particularly with the HR. I’m not all that excited about the idea of Tyrone Taylor being the regular RF’er either.
I’m curious how close they came to non-tendering him..so I’m trying to convince myself that getting something via trade is better than nothing. Just would have liked 1 guy coming back who isn’t a pitcher.
JoeBrady
would have liked 1 guy coming back who isn’t a pitcher.
=============================
I give them a pass on that only because they managed to flip two RPs for Adames.
Spike Hyzer
Taylor projected to 35 HRs with a full season of ABs. Better range and fielding than Renfroe.
MannyPineappleExpress9
That’s great and all, but if he was really that good he’d have locked up CF last year after they finally, officially moved on from Cain. Between injuries and that week+ against the Padres and Cubs he didn’t do that great IMO.
Spike Hyzer
Nah. The only reason some see him as underperforming is that they fail to take into account just how sporadic his playing time was. He had the bad luck to go into a little bit of a slump when Cain was gone and some injuries occurred. He was stronger as the season went on.
I believe that he will be that 35 HR guy if given regular playing time (he’s more of a sure thing than our obviously talented minor league guys). Half of his career ABs came last year and he still barely has a total that would constitute a full season.
He has a fairly impressive 4 WAR in less than 700 ABs, along with an above average OPS plus.
He deserves it more than a Weimer or a Frelick (and Ruiz is a one trick pony to me, won’t be able to hit MLB pitching, which devalues his base running and D).
prov356
Happy Thanksgiving!
I like these moves so far. I believe Moreno is allowing Minasian to be more aggressive because he’s trying to convince Ohtani to stay long term. Urshela and Renfroe are one year deals so my concern is if Ohtani stays, they leave, and Moreno is back to his old ways. I believe Ohtani sees that possibility too. Or conversely, if Ohtani leaves, Moreno can let them go at the end of 2023 and go back to his old ways.
The best move we can hope for now is a sale of the team. and some BP pieces. We still only see the phrase “exploring a sale”. With Moreno’s history of pulling the plug on deals at the last minute, I won’t be confident the team is for sale until there is a change in that wording and a buyer is at least reportedly in place.. It leaves Moreno too much wiggle room. Either way, I believe Moreno will own the team through the 2023 season considering how long $3b deals take. My last one took 2 years. (just kidding)
Devlsh
Renfroe is the type of guy you LOVE hitting 7th in your lineup.
I’ve thought the Brewers have been the ‘smartest’ team in the NL Central for quite a while, flipping often marginal prospects for guys like Yelich, Adames, Urias, Lauer, Tellez, Renfroe, etc. and putting a competitive team on the field despite playing in what I believe is the smallest market (which matters from a TV revenue perspective more than it does attendance)..
They milked a solid year out of Avisail Garcia, replaced him with Renfroe, and I expect they’ll make another underrated move for a guy (Winker, for example) who will again have a nice year for them.
As for those Brewers fans who are advocating filling all their vacancies with prospects, if you want to compete within the Burnes/Woodruff window, you can’t afford to endure growing pains at multiple positions. One, maybe two if you have a solid enough core but relying on Mitchell, Turang, Frelick, Ruiz, etc. to provide adequate offense from the get go isn’t the best route IMO. Your window in the Central extends for another year or two and you can’t risk wasting it.
rpoabr
Wow, still surprised the Angels are making good moves! Arty is smart if nothing else, the team is easier to sell if they start the season well instead of their usual crap.
Lineup is looking much better with actual proven ML talent. All assuming health and some reasonable bounce backs to average….big if of course.
Urshela SS
Ohtani DH
Trout CF
Rendon 3B
Renfroe RF
Ward lF
Walsh 1B
Stassii/O’Hoppe C
Fletcher/Renigfo 2B
Enough depth to cover Walsh or the inevitable Rendon injury. Could be a top end lineup if it all comes together.
Fairly capable SP group, Now need a couple of BP upgrades and this is a hugely upgraded team over last year.
sonorawind
Angels may have just sealed the award for the most RH hitting heavy lineup in baseball..
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Is willy Adames or Urias available? I would love to have any one of them as a shortstop.
MannyPineappleExpress9
It’s the Brewers, everyone is probably available..except Yelich of course.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
That sounds sad, this is a competitive team. I wonder how much Urias would cost.
MannyPineappleExpress9
The Brewers are crying poor, that’s why everyone (in my opinion) could be had if it means saving a few dollars. As for the availability of Urias specifically..probably depends what shakes out with Wong and Turang (or if they bring in another journeyman to at least fill a utility role). But I don’t think it’d cost a ton in prospects or anything like that.
chemfinancing
this is such an angels move
99socalfrc
As some others have pointed out, Renfroe is a dead pull hitter, so it’s possible his numbers can improve outlawing the shift.
JoeBrady
How much will that help. I very seldom see a 2B shifted to the left of the 2B bag, which is still where they can play.
SharksFan91
@Devlsh “(which matters from a TV revenue perspective more than it does attendance)”
Is that why numerous MLB people, owners, etc. complain about empty seats and “outdated” stadiums in certain markets? Yes, TV revenue matters and you’re right, Milwaukee is in the bottom third of the MLB TV market size wise. Along with Tampa, KC, San Diego, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Seattle. Now, look at the baseball playoff history of those teams over the past 50 years. Only San Diego, Seattle, and Milwaukee haven’t won a WS.
As I’ve said many times, Milwaukee is routinely in the top half (typically #10-15) in MLB home attendance along with the top half in the average fan’s cost while attending a game. The Brewers are also a “taker” annually when it comes to MLB revenue sharing. Those three factors shouldn’t be discounted or ignored due to TV market size or lack thereof in Milwaukee.
Stop defending owners similar to Selig and Attanasio with excuses for being inept, cheap, or greedy. There’s been a certain mindset in Milwaukee that hasn’t been or isn’t working. As a long-time fan, I’m tired of it and the entertainment dollars I spend on the Brewers continue to decrease each year because of the product on the field. The stadium, concessions, and occasional atmosphere are the saving graces for this team.
As someone recently posted- “As a Brewer fan, once you realize the goal is to NOT win a World Series, but instead maintain a “competitive” team to get 2+ million fans into the park year in, year out, this all becomes a lot easier.”
That pretty much sums it up. Although I would add “competitive” means .500 each season. Give or take
5 games either way.
Devlsh
I’m not ignoring those factors, I’m just saying being routinely in the top half of attendance doesn’t mean the Brewers ought be spending more than they are..
I think the Brewers spending has been VERY fair given their market size. Compared to teams like the Royals, Guardians, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Pittsburgh, etc., there’s no room for complaint, and it’s unrealistic (and unfair) to expect ownership to go toe to toe in terms of spending with the large markets.
Almost ALL small market teams, regardless of revenue sharing, need to do a lot of things right to consistently compete, and the Brewers do it very well. While the Rays are the gold standard, and the Guardians and Cardinals rank up there, you’d be hard pressed to say the Brewers aren’t in the top five small market teams in terms of success/spending. I hear your frustration but I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out the Brewers have been in the playoffs four of the last five years, and have had a winning record five of the last six. There are a LOT of small AND large market fans who’d love to have that level of success.
JoeBrady
#17 in revenue.per Forbes.
#20 in payroll per Spotrac.
Not that much different.
And I think they averaged 90.2 wins over the past 5 years, excluding the short season.
outinleftfield
TV is the end all be all in terms of revenue. By the time they open the gates, every team has over $100 million from MLB’s national TV and streaming deals. Then add their local TV deals on top of that.
A team like the Angels is over $200 million in revenue before selling a seat or a hot dog or selling any sponsorships. A team like the Brewers are closer to $150 million from TV. Add in the tens of millions in revenue sharing they receive from the big market clubs and their local sponsorships and the Brewers are at or above $200 million before one ticket is sold.
At an average ticket price of $32, 2 million tickets sold is only $65 million.
UWPSUPERFAN77
If I repeat anyone sorry! Looks like a salary dump for a bunch of average, at best, prospects. I they might make it in the bullpen. I am excited at our minor league prospects in OF.
mikesciosciastragicillness
They need pitching!
outinleftfield
Holy Frijole! I take a day off and the Angels step up with a big trade. I love it. Starters are set in the OF.
Renfroe was actually near the top of my wish list in the OF. I was hoping for Brantley, but next was Renfroe. He has a good bat and plays passable defense with a strong arm. Best of all he is a FA after 2023 so the new owners are not locked into long term deals like Rendon.
Urshela is also a good player that will be a FA after the season. He gives the infield some depth by being better than average everywhere.
Arte, let Minassian go get a few more players. Another starter. I want one of the top 2. DeGrom would be a 3 year deal and Verlander would be a 2 year deal. Both over $40 million AAV so signing either would mean going over the luxury tax. Do it anyway. You won’t be here for the end of their deals and Ohtani and either of those two at the top of the rotation would be insane. Follow those two with Anderson, Sandoval, Suarez, and Detmers in 6 man rotation. Still have Canning as depth.
Then get us a SS. Minassian can trade for this instead of going long term on the big 4. Best one that might be available is Rosario, IMNSHO.
Then a setup man for the pen. Rogers? He will be cheap, short term, and he has closing experience. Knebel or Hand would work too, but I think they will be much more expensive. Trying to save you some dimes since you are dropping $40+ million AAV on a starter. Oh, and let Ben Joyce start the season in Anaheim. They don’t make many arms that can throw a ball 105. Don’t let him break that thing in the minors. The pen would be set with Rogers, Herget, Rodriguez, Joyce, Tepera, Loup, Barria and Quijada with Chris Rodriguez and Canning returning at some point. Yes, I know Canning was a starter, but I think he is better suited to the pen. He might actually stick most of the season with the team.
Last but not least is get a real catcher. O’Hoppe is going to be good, but he is young. Stassi has taken a few too many blows to the head. He will never be good again. Trade him and sign Vazquez. I think Contreras is going to want 5 years, so go with Vazquez who will probably take 2 or 3.
THAT is a playoff team and might give the Angels as shot at keeping Ohtani
Plugnplay
I like it, but your wish list is a big ask, and around a 250m payroll. Screw it, it’s not my mone. Let’s do it…haha
Oldhalo
Off to a great start. We haven’t even hit the winter meetings yet. Plenty of time to round out the roster.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
What the Angels need is a couple high OBP guys to bat in front of Trout and Shohei. I do not see that in the signings of Urshela and Renfroe.
JackStrawb
@ignorant Son-of-a-b I remembered it was bad, but not as bad as it was. Angels had FIVE regulars with OBPs under .300, and the five probably combined for an OBP around .270, knocking the OBP of a team with Trout and Ohtani all the way down to .297.
Horrific. At least Renfroe and his .300 career OBP will feel right at home. They might want to look at 1/15m for Jean Segura at short. ,340 OBP of late, defense is still okay, runs the bases adequately, won’t require a long deal.. Swap him for Velazquez and the team OBP goes up by 10 points.