The National Baseball Hall of Fame this morning announced the eight players who’ll be considered for induction by the Era Committee, formerly known as the Veteran’s Committee. Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy and Rafael Palmeiro will each be under consideration. Any player who receives votes from 12 members of the 16-person panel will be inducted into the Hall of Fame, along with anyone selected by 75% of the voters on the Baseball Writers Association of America ballot.
Bonds, Clemens and Schilling are the most notable and long-discussed of the group. All three fell off the writers’ ballot last winter after failing to reach 75% of the vote for a 10th consecutive year, thereby exhausting their eligibility. They’ll immediately garner renewed consideration, this time from the Era Committee after their progress on the writers’ ballot stalled — or in Schilling’s case, dropped after he attempted to remove himself from the ballot as his support dwindled following a number of controversial public statements — towards the end of their time under consideration.
Clemens and Bonds, of course, have slam-dunk Hall of Fame statistics but were left outside the Hall due to their ties to performance-enhancing drugs. Both were named as alleged steroid users in the 2007 Mitchell Report. Palmeiro’s HOF candidacy was also derailed by PED ties, in his case a 2005 suspension for a failed test that came a few months after he denied ever taking steroids during Congressional testimony the preceding spring. Palmeiro spent four seasons on the writers’ ballot but fell off in 2014 after receiving less than the 5% of the vote needed to remain under consideration.
Belle lasted two seasons on the writers’ ballot, falling below the 5% threshold in 2007. Mattingly, McGriff and Murphy all spent the maximum allotted time under consideration by the BBWAA but never crossed the necessary 75% threshold. Mattingly’s vote share peaked at 28.2% in his first year on the ballot. Murphy topped out at 23.2%, while McGriff’s vote share hit its apex at 39.8% during his final year in 2019.
The Era Committee’s purpose is to induct players who may have slipped through the cracks on the BBWAA ballot. It has historically cast a wider net for induction than has the Writers Association. This year’s crop of players are part of the “Contemporary Baseball Era,” which considers players whose primary contributions to the sport have come since 1980. Voting will be conducted on December 4.
BeansforJesus
Lou Whitaker and Bobby Grich. How are you putting Belle over Whitaker??
Edit: Palmeiro, too. In fact, Whitaker and Grich should be over most of these guys.
BeansforJesus
Lol @louwhitakerHOF I thought of your username right away when I saw this.
Second was the McGriff for HOF user. McGriff deserves it.
A'sfaninUK
All you Lou Whitaker fans need to understand Kevin Brown is an even bigger flub – he has 76.5 fWAR!!
AgentF
This! Brown had an excellent career and always gets overlooked.
hunterts
Bobby Grich? .266 1800 hits 224 hrs
Good player but not even close.
Sunday Lasagna
@hunterts a .266 average, really? Bobby Grich has a .371 career OBP and an OPS + of 125 as a Gold Glove Second Baseman. He has a career WAR of 71.1. The 2Bman ahead of him include Gehringer, Collins, Lajoie, Hornsby, Morgan, & Carew and the 2Bman beneath him include Frisch, Jackie Robinson and Sandberg. He is a HOF Second Baseman
BeansforJesus
Hold your tongue. Grich is deserving and your points against him are weak as heck.
hitztheball
Grich belongs solely based on the fact that my first “real” baseball glove was a Wilson Bobby Grich model!
drtymike0509
2nd base is under represented in the hall and I’m not sure why, last I checked its still a position. Lou, Grich, Kent all deserve to be in
The_M4N
Is it the Hall of Fame or the Hall of Equal Representation?
ThonolansGhost
Grinch absolutely belongs in the HOF.
urnuts
Grich WAR is higher than Sandberg, Alomar, Biggio and more HOFers. During his ERA won multiple Gold Gloves and a leading offensive Second Baseman. The game was very different during his time.
check this out and be enlightened.
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_2B.shtml
User 2079935927
He will get in next year when that era’s is up election. Him and Whitaker
tigerdoc616
Wrong. New Era committees. This year is the Contemporary Era committee, 1980 to present. Whitaker played the majority of his career after 1980. Grich played more than half his career before 1980 so he likely will be considered in 2 years by the Classic Era committee. Next year will be the Contemporary Era non-player committee.
Sunday Lasagna
Dale Murphy made his MLB debut in 1976 and had 1,160 plate appearances in the 1970’s, Lou Whitaker made his MLB debut in 1977 and had 1,124 plate appearances in the 1970’s.
Dale Murphy played the entire 1980’s, and retired in 1993, Lou Whitaker played the entire 1980’s and retired in 1995
How is Lou Whitaker not under consideration and Dale Murphy is?
A'sfaninUK
Defense matters.
Sunday Lasagna
@A’s fan, Whitaker has a career dWAR of 16.2, Murphy has a career dWAR of negative 6.8. Yes, defense matters, all the more reason Whitaker should be on the ballot.
JoeBrady
Good player but not even close.
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He should’ve been a first-ballot HOFer. Just from a pure fWAR perspective, he is #8 all-time at 2nd.
If you want to add fWAR/650 PAs, he is #4. Carew’s fWAR/650 was only 4.45, while Grich’s was 5.47 (and Carew is technically a 1B). Frisch & Gehringer were also fairly behind Grich in WAR/650.
Or, from another perspective, Carew’s career OPS+ was 131, while Grich’s was 125. That makes Carew a marginally better hitter, and not half the fielder.
Chris G.
With the recent rule changes and era realignment Grich doesn’t fall into the Contemporary category. This ballot is for players whose main contributions to the game were from 1980-present. He would now fall under the Classic Baseball group of pre-1980. He played over both eras but more so prior to 1980. Sweet Lou is a glaring omission however. The Hall has consistently screwed up the handling of the committees and the recent changes butchered an already horrible process.
Chris G.
And Grich is definitely a HOFer. You don’t have to like sabermetrics, but at least stop looking at some of the meaningless antiquated stats. Elite defense and career 125 OPS+, .361 wOBA and 129 wRC+ at a weak-hitting position is outstanding.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Bobby Grich a poor mans Mark Belanger – Denny Doyle
BeansforJesus
What funny is Denny Doyle’s career is basically
a poor man’s mark Belanger or maybe even vice versa
urnuts
Take a look and eat crow.
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_2B.shtml
BeansforJesus
@ChrisG I did not know Grich wasn’t in the same category. Thanks for the info.
I was trying to think of a cogent thought to express my frustration with HOF voting and I think your last sentence got the most of it.
User 2079935927
Poor man’s? Grich had waaaay better stats and good stats too.
Dumpster Divin Theo
They both went off to become serial entrepreneurs, Doyle with his eponymous chain of late night breakfast dives (the grand slam a nod to his penchant for titanic blasts with ducks on the pond), Belanger with his chain of men’s apparel shops in the greater Dundalk area
avenger65
NO NO No NO on bonds!!! He used so many PEDs his shoe size grew five sizes in one year. He even admitted during a televised interview that he took steroids. I don’t why his “records” stand. They took away McGwire’s single-season hr record because he did it while full of PEDs
Curveball1984
McGwire’s Record was taken away? First I’ve heard of it. Last I checked Aaron Judge surpassed McGwire’s rookie record a few years ago, so it’s a moot point. The better question is, if Bonds, Clemens, & Palmeiro are being considered, why isn’t Sosa & McGwire?
Scott Kliesen
How do you know the HOF isn’t already littered with PED users?
The argument to keep out the most successful PED users while turning a blind eye towards guys like Ortiz, Piazza, Bagwell, etc. is hypocritical at best.
BTW, how do you know Griffey and Pujols didn’t dabble in PED’s? Their numbers suggest it’s possible they did.
jjd002
Blind eye to Bagwell? He has to wait multiple years because certain writers wanted to wait to see if anymore information came out. Should have been first ballot, but juicing accusations kept that from happening.
BrettPhillips for Prezident
If Griffey got ringworm than holy goodness he woulda had 900 homers!
Pete'sView
I don’t think Sosa or McGwire have HOF credentials. And Palmeiro failed the tests, Bonds and Clemens did not.
belkiolle
It absolutely is. Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Schmidt, and many others in the Hall have admitted to greenie usage.
The difference is they’re the childhood heroes of the guys voting so they get a pass. It’s hypocritical but what it is. Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and the rest will get in eventually.
belkiolle
Huh?
McGwire and Sosa both definitely have Hall of Fame level stats. Palmeiro does too depending on how steroids end up being viewed in the coming years.
Bonds failed an amphetamine test in 2006 so Clemens is the only one of that trio that didn’t fail anything.
louwhitakerisahofer
THANK YOU! I’ve had this “discussion” with a good friend of mine for years. If Ryne Sandberg is deserving of induction, so is Sweet Lou.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Lou poor man’s Cookie Patek
louwhitakerisahofer
I’ve always though Damon should be looked at. I think I’m his only problem is he didn’t really have a pinnacle moment (that I can remember). Not did he ever really garner MVP consideration and was only a 2x All Star.
One of my favorite players, but I still think he is the n the Hall of Very Good Players.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Is this Tom Selleck?
Dumpster Divin Theo
Bernie Mac mister 2999
hiflew
Lou Whitaker was not a better player than any of the 8 on the list. I agree that he should be in the HOF, but the hitters on this list include 3000 hits, 500 homers, and MVP campaigns. Or in McGriff’s case, just shy. But still I wouldn’t put Whitaker above any of them.
The easiest way to forget about Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, and McGwire is to just put them in the Hall and be done with it. Like them or not, they were the best players of an entire generation. If they continue to be left out, their numbers will continue to overshadow guys like Whitaker and Grich and Dave Parker and Vada Pinson and a bunch of others that deserve enshrinement consideration as well.
Patrick OKennedy
You’re way off on this one.
Lou Whitaker has 9 seasons of an OPS+ of 120 or more. Add in 3 gold gloves, 4 silver sluggers and a ROY.
Whitaker’s WAR is 20 to 30 points higher than Belle, Mattingly, McGriff and Murphy and a bit higher than Palmiero.
His stats across the board are better than fully half of the 2B already in the hall of fame and his defensive stats are elite among the best second basemen of all time.
McGwire and Sosa had a couple of outstanding seasons, but nowhere near the longevity of a HOF career.
hiflew
I am not way off. You just happen to disagree with my opinion. None of this is carved in stone as right or wrong. It’s all a matter of opinion.
WAR is just an opinion as well. Yes it is a logarithm, but a human being decided what factors to include in that logarithm.
You have your opinion, I have mine. You can quote numbers all you want, I watched these guys play. In the 1980s, at no time would I have rather had Lou Whitaker on my team than Dale Murphy. Murphy and Mattingly WERE baseball in the mid 80s. McGwire and Sosa WERE baseball in the late 90s/early 2000s. Lou Whitaker never was baseball. He was a great player, but it’s not called the Hall of WAR, it is the Hall of Fame.
kje76
I’m a big Dale Murphy fan, but he really was only at his peak for about 6 seasons – 1980, 1982-1985, and 1987. It took him a good while to settle into his role (and settle into a position), and then after 1987 he had a fairly steep dropoff.
Lou Whitaker didn’t have the peak that Murphy did, but he was steady for much longer.
belkiolle
You might not have wanted Whitaker over Murphy but lots of teams would. It’s much easier to replace a power hitting OFer with an average glove than it is a good hitting 2B with elite defense.
Over their respective best 10 year periods Murphy hit .273/.361/.491 and Whitaker hit ..276/.358/.440. Murphy had -18.8 dWAR to Whitakers 82.4 over the same period.
Pete'sView
Bonds, Clemens, Schilling should be shoe-ins. Belle, McGriff and Whitaker (were he on the ballot), definitely. It’s time to make things right or the HOF is a joke.
User 2079935927
@Beans- Grich and Whitaker will be voted on I think next year. I hope Grich gets in
ruff kuntry
Fred McGriff’s time!
drtymike0509
Crime Dog should’ve been voted in. Played in the roid era and fell just short of the “milestone” home run category that apparently doesn’t matter anyway based on the roids. I’ve always wondered if he just hit 7 more home runs if he would’ve gotten in the right way. Not to slight those who get in after they leave the ballot at all, but getting in within your time frame has to feel great and prove your career, whereas the other way is just fingers crossed
jjd002
Why is he automatically above suspicion? Played in the era PEDs were used by most players. It’s much more likely he was juicing than he wasn’t.
hiflew
Forget the steroids, that is all just conjecture at this point. The work stoppage of 1994/95 is what cost McGriff his 500 homers. Add in those 50 games in 1994, plus another 20 in 1995 and McGriff easily gets another 20.
Dumpster Divin Theo
He should be in for the joy he brought to the Tom Emanski school alone. Plus all time great nickname
FredMcGriff for the HOF
^^^ I concur ^^*. Braves don’t win the 1995 World Series without McGriff.
Dustyslambchops23
Now that MLB and every other sports league has sold its soul for a piece of ‘legal’ gambling can we start having the all time hits leader is not in the hall of fame convo ?
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And Shoeless Joe while they’re at it please…
avenger65
And Dick Allen.
kje76
Um … Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame, but he certainly isn’t excluded like Rose and Jackson. MUCH different conversation.
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If 3000 hits means immediate entry, Damon and Vizquel should be looked at hard. They obviously did much more than rack up hits..And I still say Juan Pierre deserves consideration…Multiple 200+ hit seasons. 500+ stolen bags, lifetime .295 hitter. Never made errors. He was great.
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Sorry 600+ stolen bases for Pierre
Yankee Clipper
Excellent point.
avenger65
it doesn’t matter if Rose is in the hall or not. Everyone knows he’s a hall of famer. they even have some of his memorabilia there. 4000+hits. that speaks volumes.
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It matters to Pete. Met him. Talked to him. It matters to him.
MediocreCardinals
Does it matter that he was sleeping with a minor? That seems to be enough to keep him out.
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MediocoreCardinals, Go post that sh!!t elsewhere you cue ball lookin troll!
User 2079935927
Trumbo did you meet him in Vegas?
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No. Valencia, CA where we were both residing at the time. I was a trainer at the gym he went to.
User 2079935927
@ Trumbo- I’m wondering if that’s the same time Rose was co hosting a radio show with that dating guy Roger Lodge???
Fun Fact- Roger Lodge used his real name Roger Chavez during his acting career. He co starred in a movie titled “Not of this Earth” co-Starring Traci Lords………
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I remember Roger Lodge from the show “Blind Date” and Traci Lords from the dentist episode on Married With Children (among other acting credits).
gwynnpadreshof2007
maybe after he dies, The Pedo doesn’t deserve to go in while he is living.
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Who???
User 3663041837
Rose, who also agreed to the ban.
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I thought he was banned for gambling?
User 3663041837
He accepted a lifetime ban so MLB wouldn’t continue a criminal investigation on him and his gambling ties to the mob.
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Rocker, I honestly forgot about the “young girlfriend” thing.
Curveball1984
Rose isn’t a Pedo. He’s a Hebo. Get it right.
And he should’ve been in YEARS AGO.
User 2079935927
Not that I condone it. But he had sex with a 15 year old in a State that was legal.
swinging wood
Also time to build Cap Anson’s statue in front of Wrigley.
Yankee Clipper
I’m still surprised McGriff only hit 40%. I hope he gets in this time.
The Player’s Era’s purpose is to catch those who “slipped through..” Somehow I don’t think Clemens and Bonds “slipped through”
Holy Cow!
McGriff will have the best shot with over half of the ballot being controversial. The panel members can only select up to three players. So there will be a maximum 48 total votes to spread around.
User 3921286289
As always, we await developments.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I think McGriff gets in. Wouldn’t hurt if Donnie Baseball got in too although I’m skeptical.
WillieMaysHayes24
Mattingly, McGriff, and Murphy are the only ones who actually deserve to be included in the voting process. The rest are all proven cheaters.
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Belle? We aren’t gonna keep him out for the corked bat business are we?
WillieMaysHayes24
I don’t believe he was on roids, he was always jacked throughout his entire career, and he could absolutely destroy the baseball. I enjoyed watching him play because of his intensity, but the fact of the matter is he did break the rules and was caught doing so.
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I would describe him just as you did…He is a rare case in that he did obviously cheat, was not juicing, but was HOF caliber. It will be interesting to see his vote count truly.
WillieMaysHayes24
My favorite memory from watching him play was when he got hit by a pitch, and refused to take 1st base. He had hit 3 homers that day and wanted to go for his fourth. Jomboy had a pretty funny breakdown of it a couple years ago.
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Hahahaha I will be looking that up thanks for the tip!
Yankee Clipper
Trumbo: He also had the *best* clothesline in all of MLB…. He absolutely destroyed some 2Bman trying to field a ball. He was an absolute beast.
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Clip, thats what I have heard. Never got to watch him much but everytime I look at his stats I am blown away. Just truly dominant.
Yankee Clipper
Here’s one for you…. And the look he gives him after too….haha
m.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4
WillieMaysHayes24
Not sure why but I had you on my mute list Yankee. Must’ve been a mistake on my part because I’ve always respected your opinion here.
And that was Fernando Vina he rocked all those years ago.
Yankee Clipper
Haha! That’s cool man. I try to mute me sometimes too, at least you were lucky enough to succeed. I respect the hell outta you too man.
WillieMaysHayes24
I was wondering why I hadn’t seen anything from you here lately. Figured you just hadn’t logged on in a while. I was probably trying to mute someone else and clicked the wrong comment. My eyes are definitely getting worse with age!
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Hahahahaha WOW! Thanks Clip. That was incredible! Vina caught serious air! Imagine if it was Altuve? He would have sent him flying into the stands down 3B line…He would have been like the ball Hobbs hit at the end of The Natural..Still going…
User 2079935927
Willie- Like your handle
hiflew
“He was always jacked throughout his career.” High school kids used steroids all the time in the 80s. With Belle’s temperament, it is possible he was using long before he became a big leaguer.
User 2079935927
I like to know what Vina said to AB. Was that Eddie Murray batting?
mlbtrsks
Not a likely Lady Bing candidate…
Dumpster Divin Theo
Albert should get in simply for having the corked bat stolen from the umpires room after it was confiscated. Or for chasing down the hoodlum kids who egged his house with his car
kje76
No, I’d keep him out because he doesn’t belong.
Belle was a talented player, but I don’t see him as a Hall of Famer. More Hall of Very Good territory.
Michael Chaney
Why do you think so? If you’re going just off of talent and peak, he absolutely belongs in. His issue is that his peak wasn’t as long as those of a lot of slam dunk HOFers, but his career numbers are pretty impressive even for a shorter time span. If he doesn’t get in, that’s why.
He was great for pretty much all of the 90s, but his “peak” was around 1993-1998 or so. I’m not necessarily saying he should be in, but he was absolutely deserving of it strictly based on performance over that timeframe.
Flyby
Im curious your thoughts on pretty much every pitcher in the last few years that was using the tack as many if not all the pitchers have pretty much said they need the grip. This includes stars such as geritt cole and many others that advocate it and you can see the amount the ball spin dropped halfway through last season.
Also will you exclude the likes of Aaron Judge that was caught with an electric device in the dugout years ago along with the entire astros team that won the world series and their management team like beltran.
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They are still using it. And I think it is utter BS! They don’t need it. Period.
DarkSide830
Where do they inject the tack and which great ones have been found guilty?
Flyby
Just because you dont inject it make it illegal and if you read the other this was to Willie who also included Belle with the corked bat. Also since the Astros didnt inject the garbage can lids did they not cheat?
Gerritt Cole is one for sure that used the tack as he was one of the biggest fighters for bringing it back and his spin dropped pretty serverly and if i remember right the trainer that sold it named cole as one of his clients with backup with shipping labels and such. I believe he named another one or two just dont remember and care to go digging through the articles to find it.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I’m lost trying to understand the point you’re trying to make.. Yes, it’s illegal to use tack, just like pedestrian jaywalking. However, they’re both rarely enforced. MLB decided to crack on ball substance use this past season. I don’t mind you singling out Cole but he wasn’t only one to use it and was pretty open about his position.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Do you have a source for the Aaron Judge device?
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YBC, first I’ve heard it as well…BS…
Flyby
Sorry the original line must of been deleted when i rewrote it and was directed to Willie. The point was for any kind of cheating should they be immediately banned for hof which is what someone mentioned earlier.
Ill see if i can find the article, it might have even been through here. It was the year before the whole astros world series win as it was one of the reasons the offseason before that the commish sent out the reminder to teams about electronic devices in the dugout were banned. I want to say it was the apple watch that he used and the appearance of them using the bullpen phones to sign steal or something like that. They named both the yankees and red sox. Judge was the one they mentioned in the article with the device. In the end, It was hey we didnt remind you breaking the rules was breaking the rules here is a fine and pushed it under the rug and sent out the reminder.
I did single out cole because he was so loud on it and i did say there was one or two more the trainer mentioned. There were many that got injured the next couple of days if i remember right after the ban which raised eyebrows. It still give pitchers an advantage as many have noted the tack made a huge difference to spin rate giving an advantage to movement and power along with the grip giving additional control. Also tack, like steroids was rampant and everyone knew people were using it, mlb turned a blind eye to it until it made rampant news. which is why they stopped it otherwise it will probably still be used today. Anything to get an advantage.
So my point is are you going to treat the tack similar to steroids when it comes to the hall of fame because it will inflate numbers just like steroids or using a corked bat or using a garbage can bang to know what pitch is coming. etc etc. Or are you going to let it slide.
Kruk's Beer League
Schilling over all three.
Mattimeo09
Schilling is a straight up Nazi. Check out his “WW2 memorabilia”, it’s all Nazi crap.
I’d much rather have a known cheater like Bonds in the HOF than someone who wishes the Third Reich would reign for a thousand years.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Wait till Schilling passes on then another thirty years
jjd002
Got some proof they weren’t doing something most of the league was doing?
30 Parks
Lou Whitaker & Dwight Evans.
casorgreener
Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling all belong in the Hall. Cut the sanctimonious bs. The first two dudes were legends before and after the PEDS. I don’t agree with Schilling’s loud mouth either but that’s no reason to deny his rightful place. Shouldn’t be a popularity contest. Rather a cheater thAn a racist p.o.s.
30 Parks
… “Ddue were legends before after,” that’s a great point. I forgot about before after.
Balk
What did schilling say that was racist? I can’t seem to find anything other than him being fired. Also, people forget that peds barely were banned in 91’ I believe, mlb started testing minors in 01’ and the show in ‘03. You’d be lying to yourself if you think none of the stars used some form that’s banned now. You’d be surprised how many of those are in the hall. Piazza is one I can think of. Bonds and Clemens were great ball players, other known cheaters still will never make the hall, so we know it takes more then roids to be great.
BenBenBen
Not hard to find si.com/mlb/2017/05/17/curt-schilling-adam-jones-ra…
rct
“What did schilling say that was racist?”
Not so much racist but bigoted. Islamophobic hate, spreading lies, etc.
But more importantly, he doesn’t want to be in the HoF. So he shouldn’t be. If he’s not going to show any respect to the institution, they shouldn’t bother electing him. Tons of other deserving players to keep the committees busy (McGriff, Murphy, Whitaker, Belle, Grich, etc).
mlbtrsks
You need to be more precise than that.
casorgreener
I wasn’t implying Schilling was racist. I meant guys from other eras. I see it May not have been clear on that point
schellis 2
Agreed. Unless you can prove that these players were the only ones doing something you can’t keep them out. There are a great deal already in the hall that did them.
avenger65
Evans was excellent in rf. I’d love to see him get some recognition though I don’t know if he’s a good candidate for the Hof. Neither is Grich despite his alphabet soup statistics.
Fever Pitch Guy
Schilling deserves to be in. So does Bonds and Clemens, who were both HOF players before they started juicing.
YankeesBleacherCreature
If one of them get in, then all three should. I’m so tired of these debates.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Schilling deserves to be launched into space. Elon to baldy McBezos: “Make it so number 2. Make it so”
Hello, Newman
Another year without Lou Whitaker.
What a joke
Dumpster Divin Theo
Jack Brohamer says hi
terrymesmer
Yeesh!
Edp007
I say put ‘em all in. Like to see some fights on induction day.
sufferforsnakes
I really wish Dave Kingman would get voted in.
Yankee Clipper
He should. He’s The Godfather of analytics…..right? I mean, he knew about TTO before TTO was a thing.
avenger65
Kingman could hit home runs but that’s about it. He was a terrible outfielder. I saw him more than once trip over his own feet while missing an easy catch in the of.
ThonolansGhost
Kingman? I hope you’re joking.
Yankee Clipper
I was…. I hate pure TTO offenses (ie, Joey Gallo). Drives me insane how stat people can think that’s good play.
Andujar
I’d vote for all of them.
Mr_KLC
I know he died young, but I’ve always wondered why Thurman Munson has never been considered.
Chris G.
He’s not eligible for this committee. This year is the Contemporary Era which covers 1980-present. Munson can be considered for the Classic Era ballot in two years. Hopefully he can get in at some point, he’s definitely worthy.
Yankee Clipper
It’s a great point. Many have postulated that he should be because of his stats. But, it’s because he doesn’t have the longevity. Now, I agree with the pro-Munson crowd because of his play while he was alive. And it’s not like his play dropped off, he died in a plane crash.
But, I understand the reasoning of those who oppose.
dr. remulak
Munson has a higher career WAR than “surefire HOFer” Molina, despite dying young and not compiling stats to the age of 40.
DarkSide830
Further proof that Molina is not getting in via the BBWAA
Dumpster Divin Theo
Molina was a safer ride tho
belkiolle
Munson – 40.9 career WAR
Molina – 55.7 career WAR
Huh?
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hurry up or you’ll miss thanksgiving
brucenewton
Whitaker, Grich, Dewey Evans and Luis Tiant.
avenger65
Tiant, definitely.
kje76
Grich and Tiant definitely aren’t eligible for two years – this election is for post-1980 guys.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Belanger, Brohamer, Garvey, and Fuentes
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Mona Lisa must have had the highway blues
You can tell by the way she smiles
LordD99
Every player on that ballot could be voted in and they’d actually raise the bar.
Patrick OKennedy
This committee is an absolute disgrace to the game.
Bonds 162.8 rWAR
Roger Clemens 139.2
Curt Schilling 79.5
Lou Whitaker 75.1
Rafael Palmeiro 71.9
Fred McGriff 52.6
Dale Murphy 46.5
Don Mattingly 42.4
Albert Belle 40.1
Pads Fans
Sweet Lou is not on this ballot. He belong and for the life of me I can’t understand why he is not in the HOF already.
Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero don’t belong due to steroids and if you think the writers didn’t like them, just talk to the HOF players when they are there for the induction ceremony. Bonds Godfather said he would not vote for him because of PED.
Mattingly and Belle are HOVG. Murphy was a shining star, just not sure for long enough. 2 MVP awards makes it hard not to say yeah, but he’s still on the outside for me.
Schilling has the stats and no ties to PED. He just said some incredibly stupid things and said writers should be killed. That is why they wouldn’t vote for him in enough numbers. Asking to be taken off the ballot also didn’t help his cause. Not sure how HOF players feel about ll that. Ultimately this is up to them.
The only one on the ballot that I could say yes to this year is Crime Dog.
Benjamin101677
Murphy had the second most amount of home runs during the 1980s only Mike Schmidt had more. Back when baseball didn’t care if you hit .220 as long as you hit 30 home runs.
He is right there on the fence where you could make a case for him to be in and make a case for him to be out. This is probably his best chance to get in as some obvious players on here won’t get votes
avenger65
As a sports writer, I am not as offended as some others by what Schilling said. Yes, it was stupid and I think that’s one reason that he took his name out of consideration for the hall because he knew it was. If this was a perfect world, players would get into the hall based on their merits not because they didn’t give an interview or cooperate with the media in some other way. That’s why players contemporaries should do the voting.
mlbtrsks
Whitaker was a bit unpopular with HOF influencers because as a member of Jehova’s Witness, he never came out of the clubhouse for the National Anthem. Same for Chet Lemon.
fairyland
I have never considered Chet Lemon for the HOF, but I’m checking his stats out now and his WAR is an amazing 55.6. Amazing as I didn’t think he was actually all that good because I rarely heard about him at the time. Then again, I thought Joe Carter was a amazing player as I heard his name a ton but I see that his WAR was a mere 19.5. Popularity is a tricky thing like that and it clouds our judgements with who belongs in the HOF with the rejected players.
McGriff has the best chance this time around as they usually feel that they have to elect someone and he’s the best of the trio who’s considered clean and he’s the most liked. Mattingly I don’t think still has enough friends on this committee to actually get in. I’m pretty sure that Murphy doesn’t either.
I’d be amazed if the rest gathers over 4 votes each as they have very few friends in baseball let alone on the committee. They tend to be a very snooty and clickish group rather than voting in such obvious choices. At least that’s the only way I could explain Baines getting in and not Whitaker. I really hate the committee vote as it’s more of a good old boys group rather than letting obvious picks in.
mlbtrsks
Schilling never said “writers should be killed” or anything remotely close to that. A retweet of a guy wearing a teeshirt that irreverantly implied it is not an endorsement of homicide any more than a link to Albert Belle flattening a second baseman is advocating violence.
ham77
Some of them just came off the writers ballot. You should have to wait 5 years before you can appear on one of the committee ballots if the writers don’t vote you in.
Pads Fans
My vote? Crime Dog.
DarkSide830
3 votes? McGriff, Murphy, Curt, EZ
cheapseater
Today’s as good a time as any to remember Maris and Flood aren’t in the hall of fame.
Col_chestbridge
There’s going to be a need for those in the room to come to a consensus or close to. If you have half the room saying “yeah, we need to induct the best players, so it’s Bonds/Clemens/Schilling” and the other half deciding that they need to uphold the character clause so they’re going McGriff/Mattingly/Murphy – then nobody gets in.
My thought is that anyone who forgives Clemens also votes Bonds, and anyone doing that only has one slot left to vote for someone. If you’re that forgiving you might also vote Palmiero, but there are arguments to make for Schilling in that case.
Schilling might be in the best position as his baggage has nothing to do with PEDs. He might gather votes even from folks who vote no on Bonds/Clemens/Palmiero.
McGriff seems like the standout guy to get votes of the non problematic guys. I don’t think if we were discounting PEDs that he would be getting votes over Palmiero.
jnorthey
I say put the 3 PED guys in, writers put in ARod, then the induction can be ignored by the anti PED crew and we can move on.
BlueSkies_LA
These HoF debates are always weirdly interesting. They never seem to have anything to do with the actual criteria for induction. If you bother to read them, you’ll see there’s a perfectly understandable reason why players who do and say stupid things don’t get inducted. It’s because the Hall is all about MLB’s public image, and players who do and say stupid things make the sport look bad.
mlbtrsks
Doing and saying “stupid things” is highly subjective and a constantly moving target Using your “logic” (such as it is), the HOF would still be waiting for it’s first inductee.
BlueSkies_LA
If you read the criteria for induction (suggesting it again knowing you probably won’t) you will see that they are completely subjective. They are also subject to interpretation and change, just like so many other things that make up reality. So you are really just making my point. Which was, for the back row of the bleacher seats, that hardly anybody who debates this stuff really cares about what the criteria actually say. Proceeding to an accurate conclusion from a false premise is pretty difficult. Put that in your logic pipe and smoke it.
mlbtrsks
The HoF’s criteria (which I read about every 5 yrs) says nothing about “stupid things”; that was your description, but I did indeed make your point, that both you and the HoF rely on highly subjective criteria for induction; that was my premise. The “conclusion” is not a matter of “accuracy” (also subjective), but whether or not it logically follows, which it does.
BlueSkies_LA
The criteria aren’t a mathematical formula, but they can quite easily be read for their meaning. The key words are a player’s integrity, character, and sportsmanship. I’m not sure why anyone finds these concepts difficult to understand. You seem to believe that players should be evaluated by a different method than the one the Hall actually uses. Your argument is even more subjective than the criteria. Ironic. But like I said, nobody really wants to know. Conspiracy theories are so much more satisfying. It’s the world we live in today, sadly.
JoeBrady
Because those terms are so general as to be useless. if Schilling wore a shirt that said Trump.Tree.Rope Some assembly required, he’d have gotten 75% in his first year.
That he is an outspoken republican should have nothing to do with the vote. He clearly belongs. This isn’t like he killed someone drunken driving, or got caught selling drugs. He hasn’t done anything wrong, other than being a republican.
BlueSkies_LA
Nobody has to order up a conspiracy theory these days. Just wait, and one will be along any minute. All will be explained.
mlbtrsks
The preferred “red herring” to discredit; just label them a “conspiracy theorist”.
BlueSkies_LA
That’s right. All you need to make something true is to believe it.
King Floch
Schilling, Mattingly, and McGriff would definitely get my vote. I’m on the fence with Murphy, his overall numbers are kind of mid but his peak was pretty beefy and he won two MVPs, which is quite an accomplishment. Still probably a “no” on him though.
jjd002
On the fence for Murphy, but would vote Mattingly? Neither one of them are worthy.
King Floch
Kind of like Sandy Koufax, I think Mattingly needs to be graded on a bit of a curve due to the fact that he developed a debilitating back issue when he was only 29 or 30 years old and still firmly in his prime which eventually forced him into a premature retirement.
JoeBrady
Mattingly is your basic Oliva clone. Almost identical OPS+ (131/127 and bWAR.(42.4/43.0), and both great fielders, even though Oliva went downhill quickly. And I love Mattingly, but Oliva had 8 straight great seasons, before the injuries caught up to him.
So I’d vote for Oliva, but not Mattingly.
King Floch
In the 6 years prior to his back getting messed up (age 23-28 seasons), Don Mattingly:
-slashed .327/.372/.530
-averaged 27 HRs and 114 RBIs
-averaged 5.5 WAR
-won an MVP, finished in the top 5 two other times, and got votes in yet another 2 seasons
-won 5 Gold Gloves
-won 3 Silver Sluggers
-was selected to the All Star team in every season
That is easily a HOF pace.
jjd002
Only reason this is even a conversation is because he’s a former Yankee. He has no business in the HOF. Injuries happen.
King Floch
I’m an Orioles fan so I have absolutely no love for the Yankees. Mattingly was simply one of the greatest players of his era and on track to be an all time great.
belkiolle
It’s a HOF pace if he’d continued it. He didn’t. He played another 8 seasons after that at a diminished level. The injury projection kind of exemption should really just be used for career ending injuries like a Koufax and even then it’s specious.
Looked at at another way…
Grady Sizemore averaged 6.8 fWAR a season his first four full seasons, won 2 Gold Gloves, 3 All Star nods and got MVP votes all four years. HoF pace right? Should Grady be in the Hall?
Keithg813
Keith Hernandez… 60.3 WAR… 11 Gold Gloves…
A'sfaninUK
Kevin Brown….76.5 fWAR….
King Floch
Kevin Brown… steroids…
Curveball1984
Murphy & McGriff should’ve been in years ago. Who knows on Palmeiro, Bonds & Clemens. Stats-wise, all three should’ve been in years ago, but who knows what the voters are gonna do.
I never thought Mattingly or Schilling were deserving. Hall of Very Good material there. Belle, had he played 100 years ago, would already be in. But I’d bet it all he was a PED user. If Belle’s in, Sosa should be in.
And why wasn’t Lou Whitaker considered?
Say Hey Now Kid
I have kind of a different take
1. I think Schilling was on his way in before he threw that fit and said take him off the ballot. His percentage of votes kept going up and was close on the next to last vote.
The writers did the same with Jim Rice. I think they didn’t like him for being outspoken about what he thought of the media and waiting til the last year was their passive aggressive way of getting back at him.
2. The Bonds and Clemens were obviously HAll if Famers before the PEDs but I am okay with keeping them out to send a clear message to future generations of players that cheating is unacceptable. Yeah you can’t catch every offender but that doesn’t mean you just let them all in
C Yards Jeff
@LoneRanger; agreed. Schilling is this centuries Jack Morris. Too much subjective bias on the writers part to be objective about the on field performance of each. Without this committee (call it what you want, Veterans or Era or New Era) I’m convinced Morris would still not be in. Which, IMO, would be a travesty.
belkiolle
Schilling is clearly much better than Morris when you’re looking at on the field performance. Schilling is a top 20 pitcher all time in the regular season and arguably the best postseason pitcher ever.
Morris shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame at all.
njbirdsfan
I can’t wait to hear the latest rant from Schilling over how terribly hard and unfair life is.
King Floch
It isn’t?
tigerdoc616
As a Tigers fan, of course I am angry over the exclusion of Lou Whitaker, again. Long past due for him to be in the HOF. Let’s do this while he is still alive!
But also quite angry over Bonds and Clemens being on this ballot. They just got off the regular ballot. They should be made to wait before being considered again. In fact that should be a rule, have to wait 5 years after being off the regular ballot to be considered by an Era committee. There are strong feelings on both sides regarding Bonds and Clemens. A cooling off period is needed. Can’t imagine that the committee’s opinion is going to be that much more favorable than the writers.
Prospectnvstr
tigerdoc: The main difference between the writers & the committees are that over half of the committee actually played the game.
Patrick OKennedy
Lou Whitaker had 9 seasons of an OPS+ of 120 or more,
3 gold gloves,
4 silver sluggers
Rookie of the Year
Higher WAR than more than half of the second basemen already in the HOF
In fact, better stats in almost every major category than half the 2B HOFers across the board
Higher WAR than Mattingly, McGriff, Belle, or Murphy by 25 points
Higher WAR Than Palmiero
Lou belongs in the Hall of Fame
King Floch
I don’t think it’s entirely fair to include Mattingly and Belle in that list since both were forced into early retirement by health issues.
I do agree that Lou should be in though.
A'sfaninUK
Kevin Brown, Dick Allen and Bobby Grich right there with Lou too
SportsFan0000
Lou Whitaker is deserving on two tracks:
1) Hall of Fame career based on his individual stats and performance
2) as part of the longest running, and one of the most successful, double play combinations in MLB history.
And, Lou could be considered under both contemporary and classic committees
since his playing time overlapped into two different eras/categories.
mightytyke
Whitaker not being in is a travesty.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Travesty is when one voter is the only slob to exclude a would-be unanimous pick like Jeter. Experts who never played the game at any level.
Patrick OKennedy
Whitaker had a higher career WAR than Jeter, too. Just sayin.
Yankee Clipper
Whoa! Patrick, please refrain from the universally poor etiquette of pointing out anyone has a higher war than The Derek.
SportsFan0000
Jeter is a great player and Hall of Famer.
Curiously, Jeter is the only Yankee in the Hall of Fame that has over 3,000 hits?!
A'sfaninUK
Travesty is a moron fan not understanding that the HOF is not supposed to have unanimous picks, and we only have them because the psycho writers are ignoring our games very best players for personal, egotistical reasons.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Haha. I are moron. Internet bully who hangs out at Stucknut is throwing the stank on Stan.
Robrock30
No Keith Hernandez very interesting
A'sfaninUK
Literally all of these guys deserve to be in, as do Lou Whitaker, Dick Allen, Bobby Grich and Kevin f’n Brown who has 76 fWAR.
K S
C’mon Man! Barry ‘cream or clear Bonds? Roger the Rocket Scientist Clemens? Rafael ‘I never took PED’s Palmerio? Phil the shil Schilling? Liars, cheaters, and rule breakers all. They do not deserve to be in the HOF. Read your history kids. Plamerio tested positive a week after he testified to congress that he never took PED’s. If you allow these guys into the HOF, then you have to reinstate Pete the gambler Rose in. He’ll give you 5/3 odds.
King Floch
Who is Phil Schilling?
DanzigInTheDark
Mattingly over Keith Hernandez is an interesting choice to me. I know WAR isn’t the be-all, end-all for these debates but if there’s ever a case where it helps provide context, it’s with these two.
Mattingly: .307/.358/.471, 2,153 H, 222 HR, 1 MVP, 4 top-10 MVP finishes, 9 Gold Gloves
Hernandez: .296/.384/436, 2,182 H, 162 HR, 1 MVP, 4 top-10 finishes, 11 Gold Gloves
Mattingly’s career rWAR is 42.4 – 39th all-time among primary 1B.
Hernandez checks in at 60.3 rWAR, which is 21st all time – ahead of HoFers like Bill Terry, David Ortiz, Tony Perez, Harmon Killebrew, Orlando Cepeda, and more – also above Fred McGriff, for what it’s worth.
Not trying to diminish the honor for Donnie Baseball – I don’t know if he’s a HoFer but he’s damn close. But it’s a shame that Keith still doesn’t sniff the ballot after all these years.
BlueSkies_LA
Stats aren’t even a HoF criterion. So WAR is as about as far away from a be-all and end-all as anything could be. Not that anyone wants to hear it.
JoeBrady
WAR is not used because writers don’t understand it. It is easily deconstructed into the hitting and defense components. Carew had a slightly better OPS+ than Grich, but wasn’t half the fielder.
If you don’t like WAR, simply revert to the statistics that generate WAR.
BlueSkies_LA
Ha ha. If you believe it, that makes it true, right?
jimmyz
I respect what he accomplished in the game, appreciate the way he played and am not trying to discredit any of that but I think Dale Murphy should hold the unenviable distinction of being the de facto cut off point for hall of fame induction. As in, if you’re better than Murphy welcome to the club.
belkiolle
It should be quite a bit higher than Murphy. You should have to have at least 8-10 great seasons to get in the Hall (extenuating circumstances like Koufax excepted) to be enshrined. Murphy only had 6 really good seasons and quite a few of his others were below average.
JoeBrady
I’m not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but what happened to Evans? Does he get relegated to the pre-1980 group? He received 8 votes last time out, and was a strong favorite to get in.
Mattingly & Murphy got three or less votes, while Evans got 8 votes. Whitaker received 6 votes and is definitely in the 1980-later group. How is it that Whitaker got 6 votes and is off the ballot, and Mattingly & Murphy were in the 3-or-less category, and remain on the ballot?
SportsFan0000
It is the bias in favor of certain teams.
Whitaker should be in and on this ballot.
This is a travesty!
Mike Mangan
Hopefully, both Fred McGriff And Dale Murphy will both finally make THE HOF Another who will deserve to be looked at is TIM HUDSON with over 200 Wins between The A’s BRAVES & GIANTS.
SportsFan0000
McGriff and Lou Whitaker both are Hall of Famers
McGriff has been interviewed about why he didn’t reach 500 home runs while so many others blew past 500 home runs.
McGriff stated candidly that all his home runs were legit….that he did not cheat like so many other players of that era.
jjd002
Palmeiro said he didn’t cheat too….
SportsFan0000
McGriff had a reputation of being “Mr. Clean”.
Not so with Palermo.
AgentF
BBWAA make heroes of guys hitting in excess of 60 HR a season because it creates a great headline. Then they squash these heroes chasing their next headline. Without the writers, the public may have an entirely different view of the guys commonly referred to as cheaters. Bonds, Clemens and Palmeiro all belong in the HOF regardless of what people and their moral standpoints want to say about PEDs. McGriff belongs in, too.
George Ruth
Bonds, Schilling, Clemens, Belle, & Palmeiro should be rejected outright NOT a single one of them belong in the Hall of Fame instead they all belong in the Hall of Shame
K S
Totally agree, George Ruth. Bonds, Curt the schill Schilling, Clemens, Palmerio definitely out. Albert don’t call me Joey Belle, alcohol issues and some bad choices including having an alleged corked bat stolen. He was an a-hole. but 1239 RBI, .295 BA, 389 2B and 21 3B AND one of 5 hitters to clear the roof in Detroit (Killebrew, Frank Howard, Cecil Fielder and Mc Gwire). He was a supreme a-hole but body of work was impressive.