Angels general manager Perry Minasian informed reporters this evening that two-way superstar Shohei Ohtani will open the 2023 season in Anaheim (via Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register). The Angels are not giving any consideration to trading Ohtani, according to Minasian.
“Ohtani is not getting moved,” the GM told reporters. “He’s going to be here. He’ll be with us to start the season. I know there’s been rumors and all types of things, but he will be here. He’ll be part of the club. I said this before and I’ll say it again: We love the player. I think our goal is for him to be here for a long time.”
It’s a wholly unsurprising sentiment, as the Angels never seemed all that likely to move the 2021 AL MVP. Despite what would’ve surely been massive interest at this past summer’s trade deadline, Anaheim took Ohtani off the market almost immediately. Reports later indicated owner Arte Moreno directed his front office not to deal the two-time All-Star.
A few weeks later, Moreno announced he’s been exploring the possibility of selling the franchise. That process was reportedly already underway by the time the trade deadline rolled around, and the possibility of marketing an Ohtani-fronted roster to potential buyers figured to have played a role in the owner’s thinking. There hasn’t been much recent word on the sale process, although Jon Heyman of the New York Post reiterated last week that Moreno plans to go through with the sale.
The sale exploration could take most or all of the offseason, leaving the franchise in a state of uncertainty. The Halos are coming off a 73-89 season that marked their seventh straight below-average campaign. Anaheim dismissed Joe Maddon midseason and replaced him with Phil Nevin, but the managerial swap failed to reinvigorate a team that collapsed after a strong first month and a half. Minasian and his front office staff will set to work on trying to build around a core led by Ohtani and Mike Trout. The Halos have a promising rotation front four in Ohtani, Patrick Sandoval, Reid Detmers and José Suarez, but they’re lacking in bullpen depth and don’t have much in the way of lineup certainty beyond Trout, Ohtani and, to a lesser extent, right fielder Taylor Ward.
How much money Moreno’s willing to allocate to build out a roster with which he’s ostensibly parting in the coming months is a question that looms over the offseason. The Angels opened the 2022 season with a payroll in the $188MM range, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. Including projected salaries for arbitration-eligible players, the Halos have roughly $145.5MM in commitments on next year’s books. That includes salaries at or in excess of $30MM for each of Anthony Rendon, Trout and Ohtani.
The latter commitment was agreed upon last month, when the Angels and Ohtani agreed to a $30MM deal for his final season of club control. That set the record for the largest salary for an arbitration-eligible player in major league history, quickly foreclosing any possibility the parties would go to a hearing over his 2023 salary. There’s no indication they’ve recently discussed a longer-term deal, and Ohtani’s presently on track to be the top free agent in next winter’s class.
Minasian and company would surely love to keep the unique talent in Orange County for the long haul, but it remains to be seen if the 28-year-old is eager to engage in extension talks with the franchise’s present uncertainty. Fans of other teams will surely hold out hope the Angels change course in their resistance to dealing Ohtani, perhaps pointing to the other franchise currently up for sale as a hoped-for example. Nationals GM Mike Rizzo went on record in June to say the team would not trade Juan Soto, but they reconsidered and ultimately moved him at the deadline after Soto declined what proved to be their final long-term extension offer. That said, it’s generally rare to hear a baseball operations leader formally close the book on any potential roster maneuver, and it’d now register as great a surprise as ever if Ohtani is wearing anything other than an Angel uniform on Opening Day.
But …
Moreno & Monfort clowns & fools all the way to the bitter end. Ahahaha!
He’s selling the team, it is far more valuable with him on it. He is biggest international draw in the game.
They have a much better future if he is traded for two or three prospects.
Ohtani would fetch more than 2 or 3 prospects….
More like 3 or 4 prospects and 2 MLB ready players….or 3 and 3….
Braves may be a good fit as would the Dodgers….
No prospect comes with a guarantee or warranty of major league success so I doubt your statement is true.
Why would Moreno care about the teams future at a cost to him financially? This is not your typical off-season since the team is for sale.
I wouldn’t give up what you’re saying. Keep in mind he has only one year left on his contract and he can go wherever he wants after that. The Nationals got so many prospects for Soto because they traded him with more than two years left on his contract. If a team gives up so much for him for only one year, they better win the World Series. I think it would be stupid to give up so much for Ohtani even though he is great.
One of the best hitters, best pitchers and best international draws of the game. Why in the world would they trade him?
The Mets still have to be trying
Mets don’t have the prospects to get him. The angels already have a top catching prospect which eliminates 2 of the Mets top 3 selling points. And Baty looked lost in his pro debut. Realistically the dodgers are one of the only teams with the quality of prospects that would be required to get him and they’d have to include May, Stone, and Pepiot.
Rather have Cat Man in there somewhere.
There are about 17 teams with the prospect capitol to get Ohtani. Doesn’t mean they should. But the Dodgers aren’t one of a “few”. the updated rankings have the Dodgers at #8 in baseball as of August. not bad at all, but not the top system. Mets didn’t trade anyone at the deadline, they’ll probably be a top 10 farm system in 2023. And I’m not even a Mets fan.
Guess it depends on what the Angels really want for him potentially. Different stables different players. Have NO idea what they would even “possibly” want for the man.
Yes hopefully he goes to the Mets.
They want to get as little as possible for him.
If he stays healthy, his value will remain unchanged at the trade deadline. This isn’t 1967 when only two teams make the playoffs.
And there is no way the Angels would trade Ohtani without giving the new owner a chance to talk to him.
I would pay more now vs August. He might sell a few tickets and give the marketing a minor boost. Comp pick and exclusive negotiate would be nice.
Whose your team? Teams a couple games out of a playoff spot will pay a fortune in July.
The new owner will want a chance to extend Ohtani. That’s about as obvious as obvious gets. It’s shocking anyone is pushing back on that.
If you believe the value for someone is the same if they have an entire season or 2 months there is no need to try and convince you of anything. You are probably one of the angel fans who didn’t want Tyler Anderson.
The franchise is also for sale. It is more valuable with him on the roster.
What team? He’s worth a lot to the Angels right now, he may be worth a lot to the Angels in July. He may not be.
I’m surprised so few people are not factoring that into the equation.
If a very aggressiven and good owner comes in keeps Ohtani and turn things around, Lotta folks gonna eat crow.
Makes sense really. Their best team has Ohtani on it, but if they aren’t competitive by the break can trade him then and probably get a great offer still.
It’s all risk no upside, they aren’t going to compete with him, why take the risk at all?
All it will take is a slow start, or a small injury and the Angels will turn one of the best 1 year trade chips of all time in to a 2nd round comp pick
NO UPSIDE?
I would think the upside is that Walsh and Redon are healthy, their top four pitches like they did last year.
If that happens, they are probably in the playoff hunt with a new owner in tow.
NO UPSIDE? Some of these takes are comical.
They finished 33 GB of 1st and 17 GB of 2nd last year lol
Both Seattle and Astros aren’t going to get worse for the Angels to improve make up any significant ground. They are an expensive team with some stars but no depth and no farm to pull from.
You using caps and being emotional isn’t going to change reality
They did. Sounds like 2002.
The pieces are here. You probably don’t know a thing about their starting staff. All you see is their record and that makes you ignorant.
Halo, I think the main issue is that Artie is a lame-duck owner and clearly does not intend to invest in putting any new meaningful talent around Trout and Ohtani.
Counting on Rendon to suddenly be healthy and good again, and Walsh to discover something is the recipe for disappointment.
And expecting second consecutive relatively healthy season out of the Angels starters is a reach, at best,
Not trying to hate, but it just seems a like a ton has to go right with the current roster, just to get to the 85-90 wins it will take to get in on a wild card.
Ohtani, Sandoval, Detmers, Suarez had good years this year and how far did that get them?
I’m not going to hurl insults back at you, as an emotional Angels fan you have it as tough as it gets.
Its the same thing with this team every year. A good off season and they can surely compete. But can they make the right moves? It would be an odd time to finally go into that rebuild they should’ve done a few years ago.
It’s clear to me you love your team and I respect that. But you are just being wishful. Rendon is probably already a sunk cost. He’s been a disaster. The rotation minus Ohtani has way too much unknown to it. Silseth, detmers, and ex astro sandoval are just intriguing arms at this point. Trout makes 40 million a year and has a scary degenerative injury that he keeps downplaying but the drs say is real. Jo Adell is still young but has been terrible. The future does not look bright. And the division is only going to get tougher with texas desperate to be good. Every gm in baseball takes Seattle’s 40 man over yalls.
Common dustylambchops L
I respect the blind homerism Fletcher. It’s at the very least, adorable
Enjoy watching the Angels waste another Elite player, only difference is this one cares to win and won’t stick around
Rendon is a sunk cost. I do think Sandoval and Suarez are in their primes and are solid rotation pieces, Sandoval more than solid.
However, there are a ton of holes that need to be filled and question marks abound.
Even if Walsh is back to normal after thoracic outlet surgery, and that’s a big IF, the Angels still need another bat on the infield and another bat on the grass. And that’s just to fill out a starting lineup.
The issue with the Angels, as always, is that there’s no depth for the inevitable injury or down year.
Rendon goes down? Welcome Jack Mayfield.
Fletcher is hurt? Come on down Tyler Wade.
We’ve played wire claims as starters at nearly every position in the last couple of years because there’s no depth.
The Angels “plan” is that if everyone stays healthy, we don’t need depth. That’s an absolutely horrible plan and we’ve seen where that gets us.
AshamedMethGoat
The points are fine. Skepticism is fine. But the way those four starters pitched the last four months of the year, and especially the last three months of the year, you have to give the team the opportunity and even more importantly, you have to give the new owner the opportunity to talk to Ohtani.
It didn’t get them far at all,
After the all-star break they played 500 ball. Certainly not great. But that’s without Trout for 40 games, Rendon, Walsh and Fletcher, or a Catcher.
So basically they played the second half without a team and played 500 ball. Put the guys I just mentioned on the field, and they can’t win 8 more games?
Because they have a staff, they are not as far away as you think they are.
It’s not the same thing. They have a pitching staff with a foundation and not a pitching staff with potential.
Your point is the Angels will stink because Rendon will stink.
And if you take away the ace, the team won’t be good either.
If Rendon stinks, and the team isn’t very good by July, then trade Ohtani, his value isn’t going down.
And if Rendon is pretty good, the team has a great chance of begin pretty good.
Outside of needing like 12-15 good players added to their team, I think they should be competitive in 2023.
It shows you how little you know about the Angels.
Anyone who thinks the Angels should throw in the towel is completely clueless. It’s a remarkably bad take.
They have so much they would have to go right for them to be relevant, and they are in a division where 3 other teams are either really good or on the rise. I’d say the Angels and Rangers are on the same level right now, but the Rangers are on their way up, Angels just keep pouring more money on their dumpster fire.
Name the Angels top 5 players headed into next year. Ohtani, Trout, Sandoval, Detmers and then Walsh or Ward? Not exactly elite. Line them up with the Astros or Mariners top 5. You probably have them at 1 & 2, IF Trout is healthy, and that is a HUGE if.
Now let’s look at players 6-26 for the Angels.. there’s not a lot there. Farm system is ranked dead last by many. So what am I missing for 2023? Ward will regress. Walsh is a coin flip. Rendon is trainwreck getting paid $38m/year for some reason. They don’t have a bullpen, they have 2-3 decent starters and trash after that.
They just aren’t a good team. You can hope they somehow get elite years from guys like Rendon, but that’s the Pujols contract 2.0
Trading a player with 1 year of service remaining for what will be a huge package is not ‘throwing in the towel’
It’s called being asset management.
There is a good argument to be made that getting 3-4 players back going to a 5 man rotation, they could be better off as early as next year but definitely for years after that
They won’t be better next year by trading Ohtani but it’s certainly not “throwing in the towel”. Thats just something bitter people say to try and insult a fan base. It would be a measured step backwards in order to better the future.
Ryan- Who’s your team?
The Cubs, so I know a thing or two about teams holding onto hope for too long. Back in 2018 when it was clear that the core they had developed were no longer working well together, I wanted them to trade Baez, Bryant, Happ and Contreras so bad. I don’t like Baez and Happ with all their swing and miss, and I felt like we had already seen the best of Bryant and Contreras. I’m a big believer in selling high and not falling in love with your players. They should have kept Rizzo to save face with fans, but they could have re-tooled instead of a full scale rebuild had they not been too attached to their homegrown guys. We’ve seen it with the Phillies after 2008, the Giants after their success, and the Royals after 2015.
You should always trade a guy a year too early as opposed to a year too late. The Rays get it, the Guardians get it. Those are small market teams – now imagine if big market teams capitalized on that same concept!
Astros- first off I don’t know who Silseth is. The rotation is something you know very little about. Trout has said his back issue is manageable. As long he does the work before games he will be okay. I’m sure he knows more about his back than you do.
I’m hoping Adell with our new batting coaches will finally turn the corner.You say the future does not look bright. Maybe to a outsider.
But if we can sign a good SS. Keep Fletcher at 2B
Walsh can find his swing. And maybe bring a decent LF like Meyers who opted out. And good catcher that can hit his weight. We should make the playoffs.
What the Angels need to address is GOOD bench players.
I’m not going to sit here say we’re going to win the division. But win something north of 81 wins should put us in a good spot.
The losing streak that cost Maddon his job killed us after getting off to a good start.
Ryan 12 to 15 players huh? Are you trying to be funny or you really that stupid. Who’s your team?
completely agree. If you just look more in depth, you should see that they were hurt in no small part by losing so many close games. A big part of this was the back of the bullpen. You flip that and they improve a lot. Even when they were struggling, they were not getting blown out. I think they had enough talent to win in 22. They showed what is possible at the start of the season. The Angels depth has improved especially the starting rotation. Canning, Chris Rodriguez, Silseth and more. I do think there is something they are doing that has hurt the defense and I can not figure it out. A lot of weird stuff like at one point in 21 they had the one of the highest opponent BA, but had one of the lowest exit vilo. They may have a problem with defensive positioning. This might be fixed with the new rules.
Keyboard warrior. We had multiple negative WAR players in the IF. If they fix the IF the angels are at worst a WC team. After the first month the angels even had a top 10 rotation.
Every team is at least a wild card if you speculate better things happening for them. Thats a self serving argument and just an excuse. They’re not that far off but they’ve been a bad team for a while and they are what they are. Excuses don’t change that. They’re not the only team that had injuries.
Chase Silseth has nasty stuff. Would be a perfect long reliever right now but could develop into a starter.
The fact he went from college to holding his own in Anaheim in a year shows his talent.
The fact he had to shows the organizational lack of depth.
There’s a really good pitching staff at AA Rocket City including a lights out bullpen. They win their division handily.
For the first time in a decade, I’m actually excited about a wave of young talent. Ironically, given the Angels recent history, it is all pitching.
They might as well see if the roster can be more like it was for the first six weeks of the season this year and make a postseason run, and if it’s not there, just trade him at the deadline. Realistically, there isn’t going to be a *huge* difference in the package they get now vs the one they could get in July. Whoever he goes to in a trade is only getting one stab at his production in a postseason whether he’s dealt now or then.
He wants to win.. I know the angels played a better second half as the starting rotation was above average. You either commit to fielding a competitive team around Trout or trade him. This also doesn’t look good to any incoming free agents. Ohtani forgave a lot of money to sign with the angels. Now he’s voicing his displeasure about wanting to win.. now or never angels.
nythefan;
Great points!
Now…..
Let’s say they dump an additional $40m in next years salaries on some FA’s….plus another $100-150m they’ll owe them past 2023. Then let’s say the guys they bring in don’t move the needle.
Can I ask a favor?
When you see me in trouble…..please don’t help me!
There is no trade that makes sense. Acquiring team has to pay 30 million and give up that much in prospects. You get one year. If he gets hurt, slumps, or any other reason he can’t play you lost a huge gamble.
Then it’ll make even less sense at the trade deadline.
You’ll be paying 10 million in salary and have an idea of health and performance and the prospect capital needed to acquire him will still exceed DFC but won’t be franchise draining and you’re in position to win if you’re trading for him at the deadline. Considerably less risk for acquiring team.
utah cornelius;
Makes more sense near the trade deadline if the Angels suck; Ohtani is healthy, having a decent year, and a team that figures they can get to the playoffs and beyond need Ohtani to get them there.
Then again what if Trout stays healthy in 2023 (he hit 40 HR’s in 2022 missing over 40 games), the pitching continues to improve, and one or two position players get better. Hummm. So it’s gutsy when players “bet on themselves”, but it’s sacrilegious for a franchises FO to bet on their teams players?
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There is a risk to everything. Sorry to tell you this – but there are no guarantees in this life.
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Ohtani said he wants to win. He didn’t say he wants to leave SoCal and the Angels.
Samuel
likebaseball 2 said: “There is no trade that makes sense”
That’s what I responded to.
I notice you often frame your remarks as condescending insults. Maybe work on that.
utah cornelius;
I responded to what you wrote in the tone you wrote it in.
You’re correct – I do that a lot here.
Two Bags is gonna make a comeback next season I feel it! Am I the only believer in him still? If so, oh well. I’ll stand by it.
Trumbo. I’m with ya. The Angels will ride Two bag to the playoffs.
All cylinders firing…a new bat…a new pitcher or 2….heaven forbid we call up a hot new prospect or 2….Yeah….yep….we can do it!!!! Lets Goooo!!!
I am with you. Even if he struggles a bit , he is good with the glove and he knows how to move runners over and get them in. A skill very lacking in 22.
Well, I mean…ATL became the hottest team in MLB after calling up Michael Harris II around late May, which was around the same time Strider became a starter full-time…and they’ll most likely finish 1-2 in the NL RoY.
Not likely, but it does happen, not that a team should count on it.
Yeah, in these very rare cases with an historic level talent, it actually works better to sign him to the mega extension and THEN trading him.
What PoBOs out there want a two way superstar on the roster? I’ve said it before (and quickly found out I was in the minority), a talent like Ohtani is special and entertaining as hell to watch but, to me, come across more like a superstar brainstorming novelty act than a more traditional team concept player with a skill set that gets you to the playoffs.
Teams who’s owners sit quietly in the background that let their PoBO make the baseball decisions will have no interest in Ohtani unless he is willing to hit only or pitch only. Doing both is disruption in team continuity?
Have the Halos had a winning season since two way superstar Ohtani has been in the line up?
He will continue to be a two-way superstar wherever he goes. Plenty of GMs want him. Only a few can have him.
C Yards Jeff;
Interesting, I hadn’t seen like comments from you before. Nor had a I thought about it.
MLB is all about rhythm and timing. Yes, allowing for Shohei Ohtani surely is upsetting the rhythms of the players. On the other hand, he is very good.
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Only in one year – 1919 – did Babe Ruth both pitch fairly regularly (15 starts) and hit (543 PA’s). After that he became primarily an OF yet pitched in 4 seasons – 1920-21-30-33 for a total of 31 innings.
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You may well be onto something.
@htah, agree to disagree. Bottom line. It only takes one.
@ C Yard, that is a poor attempt at humor right?? When you have a player who provides All Star caliber play with bat who can in turn go out every 5th day and give u top 10 Arm in game production he is more valuable opposed to either only pitching or only hitting. It is not even debatable. It’s like debating whether $100 or $200 is more valuable.
There isn’t a front office in baseball that is blind to Ohtani’s value as a two way player like you are. Would be moronic to force him to become a typical one way player.
That is why you are not a billionaire. Imagine how much profit you can make from filling out the stadium and in jersey sales. And his attraction to fans is possibly the greatest in hostory.
1) Does Ohtani have a lot of fans in Jersey?
2) I’m assuming these Jersey aren’t the same fans he is attracted to. I’d argue Wilt was attracted to fans more so than Ohtani. And yes, his story could be called “Ho Story.”
There is no MLB TEAM in Jersey but a lot of Trout fans came to see him play. If they have money to spare they will travel to Philly on cow drawn carts or any vehicles.
Aragon. Ohtani Jersy’s are a MLB license product. The Angels or Ohani doesn’t make extra money when a Jersey is sold.
It goes to MLB and the revenues are split.
@aragon; If I was a billionaire owner I’m thinking I got there because I like to win. How? Because either myself or my employees were experts in that field of industry. If I wanted to fill seats, I’d get the hell out of the way and let my baseball people, the experts in their industry, make the decisions that pile up wins.
A player with 9.6 war doesn’t help you win?
True, 9.6 war is impressive, an amazing talent. But the article says he’s a “superstar’ Superstar? Superstars lead teams to victory. He’s yet to play on an above .500 Halo’s team.
C Yards Jeff;
MLB has been all about entertainment for some time. The parks have been turned into theme parks, with toys to play with, souvenirs, and pricy gourmet food in the concourses – the game in the center. A festive atmosphere. I get marketing questionnaires from MLB – they specifically ask me about the entertainment value.
I understand you played the game in college. Most people that follow the game in America played it only sporadically growing up on a field….if that. Mostly they played the game on Strat-o-matic or a computer. Things like cut-off men; throwing to the right base; bunting; hit-and-run; running the bases properly; etc. are pretty much incidental, pesky stuff (for some reason pitch framing is popular). That’s fine. They view the sport as entertainment and when getting into discussions bring up statistics. Many participate not in playing the game, but in having a rotisserie league team – which is all based on statistics…although MLB has joined the other team sports leagues in encouraging betting / gambling and is making a big push there.
There are 30 teams, of which 2 go to the WS each year. The other 28 franchises fans have to follow the sport in something other than W vs. L’s. Buying jerseys / hats / jackets and seeing it as entertainment works.
Shohei Ohtani is the biggest attraction of any player in MLB. On the road fans show up in droves during a series against the Angels to watch him pitch….and as you know. the total cost of going to an MLB game is not cheap.
He was a top 5 pitcher in the AL. Every 6th game he gave his team a great chance to win. They were also well above .500 when he was on the mound. Not to mention he produced well above average from the plate.
Ohtani is a superstar despite your ridiculous attempt at redefining the term.
“Ohtani, the middle of the order slugger/top of the rotation starting pitcher, isn’t actually a superstar because Arte Moreno and the Angels FO are idiots and can’t build a decent team around him!”
This is genuinely one of the most baffling takes I have ever seen, and one of the best examples of Poe’s Law in action as well.
To my MLBTR brethren. Grateful for this site. IE. the writers and fans that chat about what the writers write. Meaning, when I’m in the minority on something, overwhelmingly the feedback I get is done with tasteful discourse.
And this is definitely the case here.
All said, I wish no ill will on Ohtani and his future endeavors. Nothing against him. Wins are what I find entertaining, not the accomplishment of a single player.
Some teams just don’t know when and how to rebuild.
With the astros, Mariners and even Texas (on the rise) the angels have a very small chance at making the playoffs.
They are ran similar to the rockies but spend more money.
How can you say this? The off-season hasn’t really even started. Let’s see what they do first.
History is on my side.
Wrong! Trolls are never right!
History is on your side?
Is it? When is the last time the Angels had four starting pitchers who pitched that well over the final four months?
Your take is very simplistic.
We’ve watched Arte for over a decade man. After Pujols and Josh Hamilton albatross contracts what does he do? Sign an injury prone Rendon to another albatross contract. The Angels created the definition of insanity. I feel bad for their fans having to watch the Dodgers do things smarter.
Asstros must have hired former kgb espionage specialist to cheat and win.
For the umpteenth time, Trout has a full no trade clause. He’s not going
If you were selling the team would u rather sell it with or without Ohtani?? Why should Moreno worry about the teams future when it will cost him $ and he won’t b the owner in the future?
Not even for a couple of Cal Ripken 1982 Topps Traded rookie cards to get the ball rolling
Yea makes way more sense to milk him for the crowds and trade him at the deadline.
We heard this about Soto..in early July then he got traded in August
Soto had 2.5 years of control. Totally different.
can he pitch?
Angels need to see if they can lock him up long term before the season starts, if they can then great if can’t they should trade him.
Starting the season with him with 1 year of control on team that is unlikely to compete carries too much risk.
My plan has LAA keeping Othani in the “offseason’ and then AJP trading for him at the deadline.. package would be much smaller for 2 months of Othani..and Padres don’t need him til August anyway…
Henry;
You were on a roll with the 1st post, then undercut yourself with the 2nd.
LOL
Don’t worry about it. This time of year (post-WS to just before ST) is silly season. And what I find funniest is that when everyone has figured out who the winners and losers were in the off-season and therefore which teams will be good and bad – by late-May / early June very little, if any, holds true.
Hi, burnt pot!
Hi, little boy!
It’s not 2019 anymore and the Padres no longer have the prospects to make a deal of this magnitude, due to their #26 ranked farm system.
Unless you think they’re going to send Tatis over to LAA….
Thr Padres farm system is barren after all the trades they’ve made.
Who in your opinion will be the best trade candidate on the market now?
My guess is someone on the white Sox. Perhaps they try and win a still fairly winnable division but wouldn’t be surprised if they move some players.
Players wise I’d go with Reynolds from pirates or even Devers from the Sox.
I think the brewers will be open for business to, could see Burns being moved.
Yeah, I forgot about them. They have a couple of pitchers that could be moved.
How Angels of them.
Ther goes another year of his prime.
There*
Translation: “I’m a lame duck GM with zero authority to make any meaningful moves. I really hope this angels tenure doesn’t set my career back even more than it already has”
How many years are they going to ‘try to make it work’ with Ohtani and Trout on the same team? If you haven’t figured it out yet, you won’t.
My guess is you don’t know a thing about the Angels.
I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again. In 2014 they had the best record in baseball and then in a relatively short period of time, the lost 7 starting pitchers to career destroying injuries.
Now let’s look at the Angels four starters from June 1st to the end of the year.
Ohtani, 2.16 ERA, Sandoval 3.12 ERA, Detmers 3.07, Suarez. 3.32
This is the first time they are going into a season with an actual pitching staff. But my guess is you don’t know that.
I would bet they haven’t had those numbers from four starting pitchers…. ever. Just a guess though.
They were 14 games under .500 since June 7.
Don’t let ERA get in the way of a good story though
Angels were without Trout, Rendon, and Walsh for a lot of the 2nd half. You remove the 2, 4, 5 hitters from any lineup and your going to have trouble winning games. The Angels in particular don’t have the depth to support such losses. The ERA is not indicative of their record. They just couldn’t score runs with the middle of the lineup missing.
Their middle of the lineup is always missing that’s the point.
Not even for Rhys Hoskins?
Unfortunate. I was hoping he would go to the 2023 World Series Champions, Miami Marlins.
Sooo there’s still a chance?
If Judge signs elsewhere, the Yanks will be banging on the door with cash for the franchise as well as Tier 1 prospects…
not enough prospects.
Yankees easily have the top end talent to pull out a deal like this if they wanted to.
Volpe must be good but the rest are so so.
I can see Trout in NYY
Can you afford a ticket to the place? You will see him playing against them.
Moreno replies, “hold my beer”
2 months of Othani won’t cost much..Prospect wise.. Comp for losing him in FA if they QO him is a 2nd rd pick from most teams and a 2nd and 4th from teams that have gone over tax 2 or more yrs.. so in theory any return over that is a + for LAA..
They blew it by not maxing his value this past deadline ..even with 1 yr less control vs Soto, because Othani is a 2 position guy the return for him would have been similar and coupled with a Trout trade to Phillie ..the LAA could have set their Franchise up for success for the next decade..and given a potential new owner HUGE $# payroll relief.. they Blew it!
Do you remember the Dodgers trade for 2 months of Machado? Ohtani will cost twice that much if the Angels new owners decide to trade him in July.
Why would Moreno trade Ohtani as he’s selling the team? Let the new owners decide, and keep Ohtani to market to fans and the new owners.
Because the new owners want to show good will and may not be willing to fork over the money for Ohtani. I would anticipate Trout and Ohtani being traded if Moreno is selling.
It’s a positive problem to have but the Angels do draw very well through the gates and Ohtani is a big part of that. It all depends on what the new owner’s agenda is. Bruce Sherman had spoken big about the Marlins and look at how poorly he has followed through. Are the Angels going to get another Sherman or a Steve Cohen? No one knows.
Angels have $150 million more in annual revenue than the Marlins. Not an apples to apples comparison.
They certainly do not want the CURSE OF THE OHTANI
From a purely transactional standpoint, Ohtani’s greatest trade value is right now. Unless going into a full rebuild, the Angels will want MLB level pieces back and contenders aren’t lining up to deplete their MLB rosters down the stretch. This ensures any Ohtani trade over the summer nets prospects, not MLB players.
An injury and even that return is negated.
The risk of losing Ohtani in free agency for nothing is too great to ignore.
That said, I love watching Ohtani play and hopefully a new owner can woo him to stay. If I’m buying the team I’d want to have a crack at keeping the greatest player I’ve ever seen.
All Star pitcher and All Star hitter for $30m. I think that is a bargain. I wonder what his contract would look like if he was a FA this off season.
Sell, sell, sell.
Realistically speaking, how can his value be any higher?
You’re relying on Arte Moreno knowing how to evaluate talent and worth.
This is the man who has his college buddies as executives, named Tony Reagan’s as GM, fired the man who drafted Trout and Skaggs in the same year, and signed Josh Hamilton.
They should have traded him last year. At this point, it would be better to trade him during this offseason than to wait for the trade deadline. One year of Ohtani is worth more than a few months.
The prime moment to shop him this offseason will be after Judge signs. The runner ups would be your prime markets, as they would already be shopping for a high dollar player. And Ohtani’s contract range would be similar to whatever Judge gets.
The Angels should seek a return that is a mix of top prospects and decent young veterans. The Angels have many holes to fill, and trading a player they probably can’t afford anyway for a handful of talented players would be a good way to start filling them.
For all the conjecture about “what if Trout has a full season”. there isn’t a lot of upside. Over the past 5 years, which gives him more credit than he should get, he’s averaged 5.7/season and 8.8/650 PAs. Even if maintains his hitting, which is unlikely, and even if he gets 600 PAs, which is less than likely, he projects to 7.9 bWAR, which is only 1.6 better than 2022.
And I’d also wager that Ohtani under-performs his 2022 numbers. He played in 157 games and had 28 GS. He is likely to not reach those numbers in 2023.
So while Rendon & Walsh should be positives, Trout, Ohtani, and Ward could easily take a step back. And then they need to replace the Syndergaard/Lorenzen 33 starts, and Iglesias in the BP.
They should be better, but I don’t see them from 73 wins to the 88 that they will need,
Trout take a step back? You know he missed a month of the season and still managed to hit 40HR’s?
Ohtani will have the same if not better 2023.
Hopefully Fletcher can stay healthy
Ward missed a number of games after colliding into the OF wall.
X our fingers, Rendon stays healthy.
Trout was top 5 in baseball in offensive WAR i and he missed a quarter of the season. He would have likely been 2nd in oWAR behind only Judge if he played a full season. His replacements, Moniak and Sierra, were a combined -1,5 WAR. Obviously just having Trout alone is not going to be the difference, but having him on the field for a full season would be about a 3.5 to 4 WAR upgrade.
The problem the Angels have is Ohtani has been very clear that he wants to be on a winning team and was specifically vocal about his frustration after this season. For the foreseeable future, Moreno is the owner with a very clear history of spending foolishly. You can argue that Moreno spends money but the results are what matter…7 straight losing seasons and no playoffs since 2014. I see comments above (halo11) that we have a good rotation yet we lost 4 more games in 2022 compared to 2021. It’s like talking about a pitcher who gives up a boat load of dingers and say, “but he has a great spin rate.” If that spin rate doesn’t lead to success, it’s meaningless.
I see this as Moreno being short sighted as usual. He can get so much more in trade for Ohtani now instead of waiting for the deadline and only getting a return worthy of a 2 month Ohtani rental. The Angels have $105m committed to three players in 2023, one of them being Ohtani. If Moreno keeps his personal payroll cap at a record $188m, that leaves $83m to build the entire rest of the team with a vast amount of holes to fill: short stop, bull pen, rotation, catcher, left field, maybe first base and even third base, etc. That doesn’t include AAA depth pieces that we desperately need for IL stints during the season.
I predict that Moreno will stubbornly hold on to Ohtani next season because Ohtani makes Moreno money and we will lose him to free agency with nothing to show for it. There is no time to convince Ohtani that the team is serious about winning for him to sign a long term contract unless Moreno allows Minasian to go all out this offseason to build a winning team instead of a team of bounce-back hopefuls.
As far as the sale of the team goes, Moreno has a history of pulling the plug on deals at the last minute. I have yet to see a report that says the Angels are for sale. The only thing I have seen is that Moreno is “exploring” a sale of the team. That is very different language that gives Moreno his out if he changes his mind. And even if it becomes officially for sale, seeing how long the Mets process took and the Nats process is taking, I believe Moreno will be the owner for the majority of the 2023 season.
No one wants to see Ohtani wear an Angels uniform for his entire career more than me. I don’t see a pathway to making that happen. Even if we offer him the $45m AAV that it is rumored he wants, several teams will make that same or better offer, many of them on the path to winning now.
I imagine every potential buyer would be furious if they traded Ohtani. This is such a no brainer I’m shocked anyone is suggesting Moreno should trade him.
I agree as a buyer I would want to have my shot at signing Ohtani long term. But you can’t ignore the facts and you have to look at the situation from Ohtani’s perspective. If I’m Ohtani and Moreno is still the owner by the end of 2023, which is entirely likely, his history dictates my decision…I sign elsewhere. The only way that doesn’t happen is if the team sells now and a new owner immediately gives Minasian the reigns to build a winner this winter. So, if I’m correct, the smart thing for the team is to trade now and get a better return. Moreno won’t because of the reasons I stated above.
Time is running out to convince Ohtani the Angels can contend now. How do you see it playing out differently?
Here is where I think you are wrong. I don’t think his value is going to go down. There will be ten teams that will look at him as a difference maker,
And he’s valuable to the Angels now. The Angels don’t have to throw away 2023. If they choose to trade him in July, they will still have that opportunity.
Yea his value is very unlikely to dip. Even if he’s not as good next year, he’s such a hot commodity that he is worth more right now than any package anyone could offer. A not as good Ohtani nets the same haul he’d bring in now.
Halo – I agree that his value will probably not drop. I think, however, that the number of teams this winter who would spend the capital is greater than at the trade deadline. Ten teams at the deadline versus 29 teams now.
I also agree the Angels don’t have to throw 2023 away. But I think Moreno will own this team through the majority of 2023 and he has proven year after year to not do what is necessary to build a winning team. That’s why I think time is short and I believe we will lose Ohtani if Moreno is still the owner. 29 teams bidding instead of 10 is how we get more now than at the deadline.
I think with time clarity and desperation will set in. Not to mention the Angels are one good move and Rendon from being a very competitive team.
BTW, I laid out my reasoning above. Where am I going wrong?
Moreno doesn’t negotiate thru the media. Of course the team is for sale. He’s sick and tired of dealing with Anaheim/Disney. He’s washed his hands. He older and doesn’t need all the BS. By this time next year the angels will have a new owner.
Leach – Moreno is always careful with his wording. But if what you say is true and the team has a new owner by this time next year, we will have lost Ohtani to free agency. That’s entirely the point.
How do you know that? Arte could have a agreement with a buyer between now and when the season starts. Part the agreement is Arte doesn’t move Ohtani. Once the vetting process goes thru it’s course, the Angels could have a new owner half way thru the season. It’s all timing.
Leach – I don’t know that. I just know the words are chosen carefully and Moreno has a track record. I build my opinion on that.
prov356;
An excellent post.
” The Angels have $105m committed to three players in 2023, one of them being Ohtani. If Moreno keeps his personal payroll cap at a record $188m, that leaves $83m to build the entire rest of the team.”
That got me to thinking…..
Ohtani wants a $15m a year raise in 2024. Based on his drawing power that’s realistic. However, we now add that to what the 3 highly paid players are making (and Angels fans on here want the team to sign even more high-priced free agents!).
This is a total mess. I don’t see any way Ohtani stays with the Angels after 2023.
“The sale exploration could take most or all of the offseason, leaving the franchise in a state of uncertainty.” Actually the franchise has been in a state of uncertainty since Arte bought the team.
Not sure why anyone would think that Moreno would even consider trading Ohtani. He is arguably the most valuable player in baseball because he is elite, top 5, as a pitcher and as a hitter.
Extending him or trading him will be the choice of the new ownership, not Moreno.
Because he is a unique talent and the singular best draw and most marketable player in baseball means that even if they end up trading him at the deadline, they are going to get a very nice return. Orders of magnitude better than a compensation pick for a QO and better than any other player traded at the deadline.
Pads – “Not sure why anyone would think that Moreno would even consider trading Ohtani.”
That was my point. Moreno won’t, even if it is good for the team.
If Moreno was going to do what was good for the team he would have allowed his GMs to sign pitchers to long term deals and been in contention every year.
Instead he signed position players to long term deals because they put behinds in the seats more consistently. Its only ever been about making money for Moreno.
Winning puts fans in the seats more consistently. Now you’re psychic and reading Moreno’s exact motives?
Bad deal after bad deal Artie loved playing proven producers who give best years to other clubs and fell apart on bloated contracts (pujols, Hamilton, wells, matthews) didnt invest in pitching last long term free agent was joe Blanton… Joe FN blanton, gave away one of our best prospects segura for greinke who if we would’ve signed for 7-8 years then would’ve been great anchor for young staff.. new owner please bring new hope!
He’ll be an Angel till the end of the year if the Angels are in it at the all star break and will re-sign as long as the Angels are playing meaningful games in September
Great news!
All of the noise from the angry comments wanting to see Ohtani in another uniform probably aren’t Angel fans and more than likely have no idea how good some of our pieces are.
In the current timeline of this teams build, next year has a ton of potential. Halo11 already pointed out the high probability of our continued above average pitching. I firmly believe Rengifo will see his true breakout year next season, Walsh will bounce back, Moniak will game his way into the 4th spot (and do well) O’Hoppe has a ton of potential if Stassi tanks, Rodriguez will be back and I am willing to be Minasian will get 2 solid bat for us.
Ohtani will get his winning team in 2023. Its going to be some exciting baseball ⚾
fishing – “…probably aren’t Angel fans and more than likely have no idea how good some of our pieces are”
Born and raised in OC and going to Angels games since I was a kid, which I am far from being now. So I qualify as a fan.
I agree with the positives you pointed out, especially Rengifo. But unless we build a better team around those positives, we will have the same results. That’s hard to do on $83m for 23 players. You have a lot of speculation in your comment that all has to come to fruition for you to be right.
Ohtani wants to win and the time is short to convince him the Angels are that team. I think we trade him now and complete the build around Trout.
Good debate.
Why is it that I can reply to some of Samuel’s posts, but not all of them?? And just because somebody mutes me, or blocks me, why should that be a factor whether I can reply to that person or not??? I can understand the person doing the muting has a right not to hear my blather anymore, but why at the same time does it preclude me from joining into the conversation at all ???
The Angels could sign Judge and Verlander and they would still finish no better than third in their division. It’s a damn shame that not one, but two of the greatest superstars in baseball history, Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani, are stuck in such an awful organization. Poor Trout is pretty screwed since he made the mistake of signing a long-term extension with them, but at least Ohtani will have a chance to get out of Dodge and go to a much less dysfunctional franchise after this year so we might finally get to watch him play some October Baseball.
#FreeOhtani #FreeTrout
I could go for some free trout.
Whatever with Ohtani. He started off saying he only wanted to play on the West Coast, then went for the most money with the Angels. He made his own bed. Leaving off the Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, and Braves from your list of teams is just stupid.
I’d say he’s pretty comfortable in that bed.
Many teams did not want him to play offense. many teams did not want use him in 6 men rotation. Some people don’t even know the facts and spew stupid things.DUMB!
I tend to put Minasian’s statement in the Meaningless Statements file.
It’s not like playing hard to get is a new bargaining tactic. If, in fact, he is open to trading Ohtani, he’s essentially announced to potential suitors: “You have to bowl me over with an offer to get him.”
Remember when Mike Rizzo said he had no intention of trading Soto? I do.
A few comments here stating they believe Ward will regress, but that’s a complicated regression. I agree his hot streaks won’t be as hot, but that pinched nerve in his neck affected him for nearly 60% of the games he played.
30 games 1.194 OPS
77 games 0.619 OPS (pinched nerve)
28 games 1.034 OPS
Ward still managed an 833 OPS over the entire season despite the injury. I believe the bookend 1000+ OPS will regress, but should still be well above 900, and possibly above 950. He also won’t have the pinched nerve limiting his production.
A realistic “regressed” stat line.
Taylor Ward, BA 315, OBP 390 SLG 545 OPS 935
Artie treats angels fans like Spaulding in Caddyshack.. YOU’LL GET NOTHING AND LIKE IT!