This baseball offseason has been quite busy so far, with a good deal of the action involving the National League East. The Braves, who have won the last five division titles, landed Sean Murphy in a three-team, nine-player blockbuster. The Mets, who won 101 games last year, have reloaded by re-signing Brandon Nimmo and Edwin Díaz as well as signing Justin Verlander, Kodai Senga, José Quintana, Omar Narváez and David Robertson. The Phillies, who just rode a Wild Card berth to the World Series, signed Trea Turner, Taijuan Walker and Matt Strahm.
The Marlins, meanwhile, have done very little. Their most significant move so far this offseason was the acquisition of JT Chargois for their bullpen. Chargois is a fine bullpen piece, but he alone won’t move the needle much in the grand scheme of things. The Marlins were already facing an uphill battle in catching their three aforementioned divisional opponents, as they finished 69-93 this year, 18 games behind the Phillies for third place. Given the contrast in their respective levels of activity, it would appear the gap has only grown.
The largest obstacle that the club is facing is financial. The Marlins have never consistently been a huge payroll team, with their franchise record coming in at $115MM in 2017. As that season was winding down, the club was sold to a group headed by Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter, with the payrolls pared back even further since then. Shortly after the ownership change, the Fish traded away Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Christian Yelich. One year later, it was J.T. Realmuto’s turn. The club payroll dropped to $100MM for 2018, $72MM in 2019 and just $57MM in 2021. It jumped a bit to $79MM in 2022, but that was still less than half of what Atlanta, Philadelphia or the Mets spent.
It would appear as though the grand plan was to trade those expensive players for prospects to form the next competitive core and then start spending again down the line. However, the vast majority of players acquired in those deals have not worked out. The four aforementioned trades netted the Marlins the following players in return: Starlin Castro, Jorge Guzmán, José Devers, Lewis Brinson, Monte Harrison, Isan Díaz, Jordan Yamamoto, Sandy Alcantara, Zac Gallen, Daniel Castano, Jorge Alfaro, Sixto Sanchez and Will Stewart. Of that group, Alcantara is the obvious highlight, having emerged as an ace to the extent that he captured the 2022 National League Cy Young award. Gallen has also become an excellent major league starter, but after being traded to the Diamondbacks. The Marlins at least got Jazz Chisholm Jr. back in that deal, but most of those other players have already been discarded after failed attempts to stick in the majors.
Compounding the poor success rate in those trade is the fact that the spending didn’t really elevate the way it was seemingly planned to. Jeter stepped down as the club’s CEO in February of 2022, with some reports suggesting that changes to the club’s spending plans were what motivated his departure. The club did make some modest moves prior to the most recent season, signing Avisaíl García and Jorge Soler in an attempt to bolster a tepid offense. Unfortunately, they both had disappointing campaigns, with Garcia hitting .224/.266/.317 and Soler .207/.295/.400.
Coming into this offseason, reporting provided little optimism about any kind of great spending increase. Despite the lack of activity so far this winter, payroll is up from last year. Roster Resource currently pegs the club at $95MM, a jump of $16MM from last year’s Opening Day figure. However, most of that is due to increased salaries for players already on the roster. The club might have a bit more to work with, as they have been connected to some free agents in rumors, including Justin Turner, Josh Bell, Cody Bellinger, Willson Contreras and José Abreu. However, they came up in short in each of those instances, with all of those players now off the board. Even if there is a bit of cash to work with, there aren’t many players left who can provide the impact the club needs. Most of the top free agents are now signed, with Michael Conforto, Jurickson Profar and Brandon Drury some of the best bats still unsigned. Those are fine players, but they’re a tier below some of the improvements that other NL East teams have made.
A team doesn’t necessarily need to spend in order to succeed, as teams like the Rays and Guardians have illustrated. But it doesn’t seem likely that a tremendous amount of help is coming from within the organization either. Public evaluations of their farm system are middling at best, with MLB Pipeline recently ranking them 16th in the league, FanGraphs 15th and Baseball America 20th.
The club does have a surplus of MLB-caliber starting pitchers it could deal from, but have yet to line up on a significant trade. Alcantara is followed by Pablo López, Jesús Luzardo, Edward Cabrera, Trevor Rogers and Braxton Garrett, with prospect Eury Pérez charging hard from the minors. Alcantara and Perez are reportedly untouchable, but any of the other pitchers are apparently on the table. Trading one of them could certainly provide the club with an upgrade elsewhere on the roster, but it would also subtract from their area of greatest strength and the return likely wouldn’t provide as much impact as the free agents signed by their division rivals.
Overall, it’s a really tight spot for the Marlins, who made the postseason in the shortened 2020 campaign but haven’t qualified in a full season since 2003. They were already a distant fourth in their division at the start of the offseason and the three teams above them have all pulled further away. They don’t seem to have the financial resources to make an impact move to make up ground. The farm system isn’t in a great spot to provide much help. They are surely better than the Nationals, who were the worst team in baseball in 2022, but the Nats were ranked ahead of the Marlins on all three of the aforementioned farm system rankings and should be less bad as time goes on. For the Marlins, they will need to think about their next moves after missing out on so many free agents this winter, though it’s difficult to see anything but rough waters ahead.
The Marlins need a smart, analytically-oriented FO such as the successful small market teams have in Tampa Bay, Cleveland, and Milwaukee….all that that play run prevention with a strong defense and an organization that can develop young pitchers.
Ms. Ng obviously can’t oversee that.
I’ll have what you’re drinking.
@ Samuel: Sorry Samuel – when I first read your post, it had about 20-25 typos in it. Now that you’ve cleaned it up, it makes perfect sense, and my post does not. I’m not a mean-spirited guy, and I enjoy your posts. Always show knowledge of the game. Happy Holidays.
BudgetBall;
Sorry, I had to edit it to clean it up.
Anyone who cares about what they are writing does the same. I have to do it on most of mine.
That’s what happens when you’re in a rush to make the first comment on an article 😉
Because they can’t develop young hitters.
H E Pennypacker;
That may well have been it! Although my posts often have spelling and punctuation errors.
LOL
P.S. I seldom am the first person on – maybe once a month.
@Samuel
Gee, she’s been in the position for a whole year and hasn’t succeeded. How long did you give Jeter before you gave up on him?
Wow!
@stymeedone
Ng has been in the position since the 2020-21 offseason. This is two years with her. The reason people have lost patience with her is a few things.
1 – When she first came aboard, her first task that she said she was going to fix was the bullpen. Every guy she brought in failed. The bullpen she built has been a complete failure under her. The bullpen has been the biggest factor in costing the Marlins so many games over the last two years.
2 – She obviously had a mess-up with the Garcia and Soler signings, but it’s more than the contracts. It’s the whole thing of signing…not one…but two corner OFs with one of them being more of a DH when the Marlins already had a DH and multiple corner OFs. One of those signings was all that was needed, with the other contract could’ve gone to getting a Closer – either signing someone like Jansen, Melancon or other….or trading for Kimbrel at the time.
3 – At this year’s traded deadline, it was clear that we were done (thanks to the aforementioned lousy bullpen that can blow any size lead), so fans and anyone with common sense knew that multiple players needed to be moved to clear space for the younger players to see what we have, and also to trade certain pieces that had reached peak value at the same time. What did she do at the deadline? She only completed on trade in the deal of finally ridding us of her biggest bullpen mistake from the 2020-21 offseason, Anthony Bass. She failed to trade Aguilar for anything, weeks before she released him for nothing. She failed to trade Garrett Cooper who was drawing interest during his peak value off the All Star selection. She failed to trade Steve Okert who will never be as valuable in his life again. She failed to trade other pieces that were drawing interest – such as Wendle, Berti, Floro, Rojas, etc. All of them have dwindled in value since.
4 – She followed up her poor showing at the deadline with doing absolutely nothing at the Winter Meetings after she was talking up what she and her team would be doing at the Winter Meetings. Nothing done for the Marlins.
5 – While Ng has pretty much done nothing for the team since last year’s offseason, she has made it look worse with the amount of time she finds to spend making appearances, doing interviews, giving speeches, etc. as an ambassador for MLB. While we all understand that her work as an ambassador is a greater good for the game, she is not doing the job she was hired to do. She needs to do her job as the Marlins GM before she does anything for anyone else. Or, she needs top resign from the Marlins and go work for the MLB League Office.
And to add to this, with her moves that have gone wrong, people knew they were bad moves the second they were done…bullpen…two corner OFs…etc. And everyone knows that the inactivity is bad for the Marlins (hence this article here). She seems to be the only one that is unaware of what is going wrong under her role as Marlins GM.
Marlins fans have had enough. We need a GM to build our team up. Let MLB hire their own ambassadors to promote the game. Kim Ng needs to determine which job she wants. If she’s our GM, she needs to do her job and not do any interviews until she makes a freaking move that improves the Marlins. If she wants to be an ambassador for MLB, she needs to leave the Marlins and go work for MLB. We need a GM that is focused on this team and building it up….not talking it up, while doing absolutely very little to nothing at all.
Don’t you belong at the top of this comments page?
post directed to Brett Harley Davis.
Very well said. Gives an insight to those who don’t really follow the Marlins beyond Alcantara.
@avenger65,
I was satirically replying to HE Pennypackers’ comment, “ That’s what happens when you’re in a rush to make the first comment on an article.”
All in good fun, Samuel!
BStrowman – the Mets 2025 commitments are around $112M. The old guys are (mostly) signed to short term deals.
If the Mets are gonna spend $300MM a year forever then uhhhh. Gonna be a tough team to decline terribly bad.
avenger65,
That’s Jarvis, Bart Harley Jarvis.
Guardians only half count, as they’re in a horrible division with lots of free wins. Brewers don’t count at all, as they’re also in a bad division and have a $140m plus payroll. Rays are your guiding light, but man their success with developing pitchers wave after wave after wave is pretty hard to replicate.
seamaholic 2;
The Guardians swept the Rays in the playoffs and took the Yankees to the final game in their series, in spite of having the youngest team in MLB. They did that by acquiring and working with young affordable pitchers. They play solid defense and strong fundamental baseball. Along with Baltimore they also have the strongest group of young players on their ML roster and in the high minors in MLB – no other team is close.
The Rays and the Brewers basically do the same thing in different ways. And those teams have the 3 best managers in MLB – along with coaching staffs that work well not only with pitchers, but straighten out catchers both defensively and in working with their pitching staffs.
Actually the Dodgers do the same thing with a high budget, but their manager is an issue.
The funny thing is the Marlins have won 2 world series, while the Rays and Brewers have been contenders but never spend to put themselves over the top and Cleveland hasn’t won since 1948 which means you have to be in your 90’s to remember that team. The Florida teams seem to be a bad model, small fan base, low budget, In my opionion, they should move to a better market along with Tampa.
The top spending team seldom wins. Marlins have never been the top spender. Why do you equate payroll with success in the playoffs?
$112mil currently for the Brewers and that’s counting all of their arb contracts, they should be around 140-150mil if they wanted to go for a championship push before they lose control on their pitchers….
*The Marlins are a cheap origination that eventually needs to realize if they don’t spend money their fanbase will vanish for good.
Work out a trade with the Red Sox like years ago when the Sox took Beckett and Lowell but gave them Hanley and Sanchez. Alcantara is the real deal. I’m not going to suggest the return but the Sox do now have pieces to offer.
deweybelongsinthehall;
Sure, if they trade this generations Bob Gibson for 3 prospects, the Miami Marlins issues are solved for the foreseeable future.
The Mets, Braves, and Phillies will trade off their rosters and go
into 5 year rebuilds knowing they have no chance against the
mighty Marlins.
LOL
Samuel, what’s your point? The Sox got Pedro the same way. Alcantara will only get expensive in the years to come so his value will not likely be higher. Also, what happens if he gets hurt? The Fish are not competing any time soon. Jeter apparently left because Sherman refused to spend as had been agreed upon. I’m not so sure Bloom would pony up but now is the time to dangle Alcantara for a bidding war
The Marlins wanted to be good in this competitive window.
But take a look? In 2-3 years the Phil’s and Mets will be a lot older. Mets probably won’t spend forever & there’s gonna inevitably be dead money on their payrolls:
I’d trade guys and extract value now for a run in 2-3 years. It’s not what you want to hear but it looks like the best move to me.
You need a new FO either way. I doubt NG is the answer. Analytically sound FO’s are running circles around her team.
A balanced schedule will help a bit. They won’t get creamed by the big 3 in their division all year but you can’t really look at that team and tell me they’re a legitimate WC threat.
I don’t see how you don’t continue to rebuild.
deweybelongsinthehall;
My point?
The Red Sox can send the Marlins their 3 best players, pay their salaries for the next 5 years, and not get anything in return.
The Marlins are still going to finish in 4th or 5th place unless one of the Mets, Braves, or Phillies has countless injuries one year to multiple prime players of theirs.
That’s my point.
How long have you been following MLB?
Hi Samuel
I believe a lot longer than you Samuel. That’s why the trade makes sense for FK if they take talent back that won’t be ready until 24 or 25 along with a closer to being ready player or two that they flip for other younger players.
You’re quite unpleasant. Even if you find Dewey’s point questionable, you need to stop attacking people.
I think you were going for “organization” rather than “origination,” right?
DarkSide830;
Do you think they can spend with the Mets, Braves and Phillies?
I mean, with their great young talent they should eventually be willing ti bite the bullet and spend a bit more. Doesn’t have to be a lot.
What fanbase? Their ballpark is mostly empty no matter how much they spend.
What fanbase? Loria systematically killed it off. He screwed them for generations.
Its not like people down here in Florida don’t attend baseball games. Spring training games and minor league games on weekends regularly outdraw the Marlins.
@bblife loris really did ruin bb in miami, it seems like right when they had a good team the next year or two it was a fire sale. it’s kinda hard to keep loyal fans when you dismantle the whole team right after winning a ws. imo for bb to work in miami the fans need an owner they can trust and is willing to spend to keep a winning team there. btw i’m not saying they need to be too 5 in payroll but at least 120 to 150, therefore you can sign your youngsters, get a f/a or 2, and make a trade at the deadline, but all this all depends on if the fishes new owner wants to rebuild the brand and make a substantial winner to earn the trust of the scorned or does he just want to collect a paycheck
Spring Training is different, as the snowbirds are still there during March, and they can draw in tourists who are fans of the teams playing.
@ Darkside830: Attendance and payroll are inextricably linked
espn.com/mlb/attendance
Spending a ton of money doesn’t necessary mean success in the POs. The Braves, Mets, Dodgers and Yankees didn’t do much in the POs this past season despite some gaudy budgets.
But they got there! Get in, you’ve got a shot to win it all.
MLB take notice !! … This owner is trying very strongly to implode this Team …Having a wonderful ball park means nothing … The efforts to improve is NON-EXISTENT, the GM Ms. Ng is not even trying to make deals (neither signings nor trades) to get Major League quality players to enhance performance. Marlins and Pirates are the worst in MLB, but Marlins’ ownership and management is definitely, a disgrace to a decent and loyal fan base.
Tut: The stupidity contained in your comment isnt astounding.
@Clepto: But the stupidity in your comment is off the charts!
Well Blue, if you think his statement has any merit….I have a question for you.
Do the short buses ride as well as the regular busses that the rest of us rode in?
Brutto tizio, Risplendi la tua calvizie puzzolente
tutop,
Era personale!
@Clepto: I was only referring to the stupidity in your comment about the stupidity in his comment not being astounding. If it wasn’t astounding, why comment on it? Inquiring minds want to know.
tutopelotas1;
Truth be told, their situation is basically the same as the ones in Oakland and Tampa Bay.
Yet MLB and it’s fans want to expand.
When they do that., how long before the new markets realize that they’re in small markets and can’t spend with others. Unless they find a Steven Cohen that doesn’t care about losing money each year – and even Mr. Cohen is counting on his farm system kicking in so his payroll costs come down.
Nah, until there’s full revenue sharing with all MLB teams there will be small market teams as well as owners in larger markets that will hold onto the franchise for long-term gains on the franchises value, but aren’t going to be taking on liabilities and headaches, working 24/7/365 on it, and not getting any profits each year for their troubles….players want to get paid, so do owners.
No, MLB has specifically stated (and rightly so) that they *won’t* expand until the ballpark situations with the A’s and Rays are resolved.
You are correct that the Marlins are in a similar rut to the A’s and Rays, the difference being that they have a good ballpark where the fans still don’t show up, which also unfortunately means that they’re stuck in Florida for the foreseeable future.
And Mr Cohen has his team within the largest market in the game, so he has a buffer other owners won’t get.
Samuel: Expansion would be disastrous because, as you stated, the new teams would all be in smaller markets unless MLB wants to explore Montreal again or even Vancouver, which would thrill the Mariners to no end. My problem with expansion is the same as it was when Tampa, Miami, SD, Toronto, Royals AZ, Colorado, Houston and the Mets joined MLB: the dilution of talent. That’s why ERAs of 3.50 and BA of .275 are considered exceptional now. Year by year teams are using minor league caliber players to fill holes. That was almost unheard of before expansion. I know that wasn’t the whole point of your post, but thanks for allowing me to vent.
@avenger and @Samuel
I also agree that expansion would be a disaster and a waste. Relocation would also be a waste of time.
MLB is at a point where they need to make a real decision with the MLBPA. They are going to either have to come to an agreement on a Cap&Floor system that assures that players get paid and that only capable billionaires are in ownership. If they don’t do that, then they need to take a serious look at contracting teams – which from my observation would be contracting the league down to about 24 teams that could realistically compete under the current economic atmosphere…with salaries and the ‘spend at will’ mode. If they don’t do it soon, they will be forced into it later as the league continues to lose younger fans to the NFL and NBA due to them being able to survive well in many markets that MLB is failing in.
MarlinsFanBase;
A Cap&Floor system won’t work without major revenue sharing.
No billionaire is going to buy a franchise in a small or even lower mid-market area…especially if he/she will not generate enough revenue to spend to the salary cap. Why should he/she have to take money out of their pockets to pay players when the larger markets not only don’t have to do that, but have both more operating capital for scouting and development as well as take home profits each year?
It’s been said here numerous times – owners of sports franchises seldom, if ever put their own money into running the team. Like every other business, operating capital is primarily based on revenues. If they need more the take loans or sell stock in their franchise to minority owners….and that cuts into the value of their shares.
Maybe at first, but there’s little to no “talent dilution” caused by expansion in the long term simply due to the increased population (and therefore increased pool of potential ballplayers) in the U.S. and other countries where baseball is popular over the years, as well as more international stars from foreign leagues coming over to MLB.
ERAs have been consistent enough ever since the mound was lowered in 1969 while acknowledging the unusual effects of the thin air in Denver.
As for batting average, that’s just a change in the dynamics of the game where managers and owners have come to recognize that it works to sacrifice a certain amount of batting average for OBP and power.
Continuing on from that, major revenue sharing is impossible as long as each team runs its own media network, which itself is necessary due to the extensive schedule of MLB.
It’s not like the NFL where they play only once a week and can therefore have a combined media contract that can broadcast every game nationwide.
Don’t forget that A’s and their little fire sale that continued this off-season with the trade of Murphy.
The Marlins need to be the Rays and Indians? Good call.
Don’t worry,, Samuel… Our Governor DeSantis will, of course also solve all of the Marlins problems !!
If not DeSantis then Florida’s most loved & worst kept secret Senator Marco Rubio!!!!!
Tuto: worthless comment. Stay loyal to your team, but stick to talking baseball.
Samuel: When COVID hit in 2020, teams in the top level of English league soccer continued on but all of the leagues below them, most in smaller markets, were forced to stop operations. The top league, both players and owner’s, donated money to keep the smaller teams going. Otherwise, they would disappear. I don’t see players or owners doing the same thing here, something will have to get done or teams like the A’s – which must be saved since they are an original member of MLB – and Marlins might have to move or close up shop.
You’re right. Maybe they should make another diversity hire!
Poorly ran team, starting at the top.
Decent article, but Darragh made a huge mistake by writing this:
“The Marlins have never consistently been a huge payroll team, with their franchise record coming in at $115MM in 2017.”
While I agree they have never consistently been a huge payroll team, 2017’s payroll amount is irrelevant because they were still just 20th in MLB team payroll.
Darragh you should always go by team ranking, not dollar amount.
The biggest payroll the Marlins ever had was obviously 1997 when they ranked 5th in MLB team payroll. It’s all about context.
hard to say it’d be in their best interest to rebuild again, but its gonna be hard for them to finish much better than 4th.
Sandy, Lopez, Jazz, and some other pitchers could bring back hauls, but… good luck ever getting another FA to sign there if they do that
Stanton, Ozuna, Yelich, Realmuto could bring back hauls. It’s not about one or a few players. It starts with culture at the top, which the Marlins clearly lack.
The Marlins got rid of the bad culture at the top this season and brought in new people from the CEO down to manager and the scouting and analytics staff.
The problem is they traded everything good they had for “hauls” and aside from Alcantara and turning Gallen into Chisholm those hauls have been busts. Spending is A problem but not THE problem, its how they spend thats the problem. They have no real international presence and they clearly don’t draft all that well because it seems like “signibility” is more important than talent and when they are rumored to be in on players its usually a corner Outfielder which they literally have a surplus of. I’m not going to lay all the blame at Ng’s feet but there needs to be an organization wide philosophical overhaul before this team can ever turn a corner
You shouldn’t lay any of the blame at Ng’s feet. She’s only been in charge for two years. Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto & Gallen were all traded well before her arrival. It’s also way too early to see if the players she’s helped draft will develop into anything.
Seems a bit early to throw her under the bus
She was never in charge when Jeter, Denbo, and Mattingly were there.
What they need to do is trade for players with no-trade clauses or who want out of their situation. Guys I would be targeting if I ran the Marlins are Fernando Tatis Jr., Bryan Reynolds, and local Florida guys who might be willing to tolerate some crap to play close to friends and family. Sure you worry about if Tatis is going to earn that contract, but who cares when your team is radioactive.
If you are a player, the optics in Miami are horrible or you’d be signing there because who wouldn’t want to spend their summers in Miami and enjoying the tropical weather?! A run down on the team includes players on the Marlins who don’t like Jazz Chisholm, a guy who screwed his teammates wife (Avisail Garcia), underperformers. and a bunch of support pieces..
So how does one target a player with a no trade clause? Might they have it because they don’t wish to change teams?
Cardinals should trade either Tyler O’Neill or Dylan Carlson for Edward Cabrera.
Why would the Marlins do that?
The Cardinals wouldn’t do it either, as they’d then be short a starting outfielder only to barely improve their starting rotation while Matz hogs another bullpen spot that should go to actual reliever.
The most disappointing MLB team in recent memory. Remember they had Stanton, Ozuna, Yelich and Realmuto at one point, yet never finished above .500. They haven’t had a winning season in over a decade (not counting abbreviated 2020). You would think their location alone would be attractive to free agents and there is no reason why they could not compete with an average budget.
Their location isn’t attractive at all! The problem with MLB franchises in Florida is that most of the population consists of poor immigrants, senior citizens on fixed incomes, and the ones with the most money who don’t actually live there during most of baseball season.
Maybe they could compete with an average budget, but they won’t be able to actually afford one as long as they play in the Snowbird State.
You’re insane if you think South FL isn’t an attractive place to live. Why do you think so many northerners move down there in the first place. Great weather, beaches, and no state income tax. There are also a lot of native Floridians contrary to popular belief, not just “poor immigrants and snowbirds.”
Yes, it’s an attractive place to live, but it is *not* an attractive place to draw MLB attendance and therefore not an attractive place for free agents.
Those native Floridians still don’t make up enough of the population to make up for the problems with the rest of the population.
What does attendance have to do with attracting MLB free agents? Florida is very attractive for MLB players, a good chunk of them live in FL in the offseason. The only reason they struggle to attract free agents is because they can’t put a competitive team on the field. If the team was competitive they would be able to. The problem isn’t attendance, the problem is a poverty franchise with a toxic culture.
Bad attendance directly correlates to low payrolls (although not the only reason in the Marlins’ case), which makes it much harder to win, which as you said then makes it unattractive to free agents who naturally prefer to play for competitive teams.
While there are other reasons, the bad attendance (and bad overall revenue including low media revenue) is still the biggest reason why the Marlins struggle to compete.
While bad attendance might directly correlate to low payroll, a bad attendance does not really harm the team ability to pay players and compete. Most of revenue is made on TV deals and through revenue sharing. Attendance is just the icing on the cake. Having a great attendance alone does not bring enough $ to pay free agents. Tampa Bay is in a much worse situation (Bad Stadium, poor location, worse attendance) yet they compete most years. The problem with the marlins is not that they haven’t won WS (they have) is that they are not even in the playoff mix year after year. While in those same years smaller market teams such as KC, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Colorado have been able to make the playoffs.
The organization has a identity crisis and a horrible culture (this has been documented multiple times). This isn’t something that can be solved signing a few free agents. But it won’t be solved by trading away talent for prospects. They really have to spend money in their player development operations, scouting, analytics if they want to compete.
I believe that one of the major issues with FLA and establishing an entrenched fan base for the local team is that “everyone is from somewhere else”. It actually takes generations to dig deeply into a fan base where it is in the blood, and the old guard franchises have a big leg up on many of the newer ones.
I remember seeing something from a while back where they took a poll asking how many fans were living in a particular area. In the Tampa Bay / Clearwater / St. Pete surrounding area there were as many Phillies and Yankees fans as there were Rays fans…and that translated to a lesser extent to some of the other minor league complex communities as well.
Of course, there are other issues as well…stadium quality…stadium location…other things to do…television market demographics…snowbirds and so on. Frankly, I am not a big fan of FLA at all. But it is a hard slog to establish a strong fanbase down there under great conditions, and both franchises have had some real challenges thus far…many of them self-inflicted. And a major one imposed by MLB when they did the Loria ownership swap with the Marlins back in the day. The dude was a complete jerk.
You don’t know what you are talking about !! Florida is ranked 8th among all states in regards to economic outlook. Let’s get educated before shooting from the hips.
Florida has the 2nd highest attendance per capita at professional baseball games of any state when you include spring training and minor league games.
Have not been there since 2019 for Spring Training, but that year all the games we went to had 8-10,000 fans in attendance.
I’m with Carver A. Too many residents from elsewhere who already have a home team from that elsewhere to be able to draw a following. And the proof is in the pudding with the poor attendance numbers in both Tampa Bay and Miami. Oh, snowbirds and vacationers fill SP seats not the general population.
The Rays play in St Pete in just about the worst possible location to get to in that entire region. It takes an hour plus for most of the population base to get to the ballpark and then they are forced to see a game in the Trop, which is awful. A move to Tampa and attendance would be solved.
Loria ripped off the people of the Miami area and put the ballpark in a horrible location. The Little Havana and Overtown neighborhoods surrounding where LoadDepot Park is located have been ranked among the worst in the nation for violent crimes according to the FBI.
If either Florida tea. started winning – and I know that tb has done that to an extent – maybe they would draw fans who are also fans of the teams they grew up watching. If they are true bb fans, the ballparks might start filling up. Then again, I’ve seen tb games on TV. They’re in contention every year and still have hardly any fans in the stands.
Spring Training is different, as the snowbirds haven’t left yet, and they can also draw in tourists (especially during Spring Break) who are fans of the teams playing.
Besides, measuring attendance per capita without measuring per game is misleading, as including Spring Training means that more professional baseball games are actually played each year in Florida than any other state except California, which must be the one that ranks #1., and maybe Arizona.
Spring training attendance has nothing to do with regular season attendance. Of course Boston fans will go to Fenway South. Doesn’t mean they will go to Miami for a game.
The point is, most of the top players don’t necessarily pick a team for the weather. They want to play for teams that have a chance to win the WS.
Most players go to the team that pays them the most. Followed by desirable location (city, weather, etc). Weather does play a factor, if you were making millions and you could choose… Everything else being equal, would you rather play in Detroit in April or somewhere like San Diego?
could be winning with Bryan Reynolds if they werent so stubborn about trading Eury
Eury may be the best prospect in baseball.
so was Trevor Hoffman
It’s a toss up between Eury and Billy Hamilton.
But is Reynolds really the answer though? He’s unhappy in Pittsburgh with the way that team is run and the fact they won’t give him whatever he’s asking for, it’s not going to be any better in Miami but at least Pirates fans come to games.
Trading a top shelf prospect for a disgruntled player in a bad situation for a worse situation is exactly the most irresponsible thing the Marlins can do
The Halos could be winning too if they had the best player in the world on their team….Wait…
**Player(s)
Both the Marlins and Rays should move out of Florida as soon as possible. No matter their success there has never been real fan support for MLB by Florida residents. So many other cities across the United States would support a team and increased revenues would allow for more appropriate spending levels.
Both teams stadiums should have been built in a better location. Not the sole reason, but both teams stadium locations are part of the reason their attendance is low. The Rays in particular have great TV ratings and would do much better attendance wise if they move from St. Pete to Tampa.
Do a 1980’s Astros/Cardinals setup. Stick with your pitching and get some speedsters to play small ball. Maybe you pull out a few games and build on that next year.
WooooOOOoo! Now ur talkin KLC! I would be doing that all day!
Yes Sir! I want to see some stolen bases, bunting, and some top notch defense behind the pitcher. Might work a little better now that the shift is gone.
Old School Ball!!!!!!!!
its how the Angels won in 2002.
You are speaking my language Kellin!!
Hard nose scrappy players!
Time to get on the phone for Michael A. Taylor.
And the Royals did pretty good with a team that could get on base by running out IF hits, then running the bases like Olympian- level sprinters once they got on. Small ball but also the way the White Sox won the 2005 World Series.
Come to think of it, doesn’t that sound a little bit like 2003 Marlins baseball?
I agree completely. Play actual baseball, pick up guys who get on base and move them along as well as play solid defense. I’ve said this before but a team full of athletes would be a real problem on the basepaths, seeing as the majority of pitchers barely glance at the runner and all the onus falls on the catcher to control the running game nowadays.
Almost sounds like 2022 Guardians ball too.
These headlines seem like clickbait. The stories are good, but this is “45 year old couldn’t have expected this when she opened the fridge” type stuff.
That’s unfortunately what this website has trended towards. Far more quantity over quality to keep the page clicks high.
I have noticed that it’s mainly just this writer, though, coming up with such headlines. I mean, aside from some random posts on some small foreign signings, this is about rumors, so it makes sense it is not all news events. I would say this site is pretty decent for a free site. We do make them some money via ads, but it’s far better than those pay to read scams. MLB Trade Rumors is far better than ESPN/The Athletic/etc.
Indeed. The Athletic is nothing more than a vehicle to push bizarre viewpoints and add unnecessary spin.
Owned by NY Times… the guys who slander their players right after they leave
All the baseball sites suck according to you two. Maybe you should pick another sport and certainly stop reading and commenting on this site since you are so unhappy with the content.
It’s a rumor sire. Marlins haven’t done anything while their division gets better. Ownership and front office are quiet. Fans are dejected. I’d say the headline is quite accurate.
I’m not just talking about this one. Read the headlines from this author compared to some of those from the more serious writers. “This guy is highly undervalued” and things like that are just not in line with the rest of the stuff on here. A headline shouldn’t start with a question. It’s not that big of a deal; it’s just something that stands out.
I mean what do you expect them to do when there is no news? At least they take the time and make sure some articles are out regularly. It’s better than nothing. It’s a free web site for rumors, I’m content with what I get.
DeGrom is right. It’s like they try to be discount Fangraphs sometimes too.
@ben
What’s your point, they are both baseball sites . There is only so much information so it makes sense that they would like each other. If it bothers you so much why don’t ask for a refund and leave?
Most of us don’t pay, so the refund is irrelevant. It’s possible to like a site and have genuine criticism of a particular author’s tendency to delegitimize a site with poor headlines like “How much can the Dodgers do under the luxury tax” and “Do the Royals have a problem behind the plate.” You don’t have to defend every aspect of a site you like. This author is clearly stooping to clickbait headlines, and he is undermining standards of good journalism. I do like MLBTR. You can’t chase away everyone with a legitimate concern.
It’s MLBTR. Are you really expecting Pulitizer Prize-worthy journalism here? They aggregrate other news sources and do minimum fact-checking and self-edit. This site wouldn’t exist without clickbait-ish headlines and the resident trolls always lurking.
Are you calling me a troll?
No. Not at all. We’re having a civil discussion. I’m referencing some commenters who are always asking why staff don’t ban trolls around here more often. They exist to help generate more clicks.
@degrom
I fail to see how this is really a valid “criticism”. I for one love this brand of content deep diving into a team’s unique struggles, and the headlines leading up to them are pretty inoffensive. It also leads to some pretty interesting comments. There’s really nothing sensational about pointing out the Marlins are in a tough place, then following it up with an article detailing how and why the Marlins are… in a tough place. It reads more like you dislike the headlines leading up to this brand of content. Which is totally fine! But posting a comment complaining about a pretty innocuous headline doesn’t really make for a valid criticism.
@marina
My point is that this is a site for transactions, not heavy statistical analyses.
@Yankees The Marlins can certainly do something. Teams would love to get Alacantara, Lopez, Luzardo, etc. It’s just that sometimes, no move is better than a bad move.
But they’re choosing not to right now. As a baseball fan, I was really expecting more from Sherman when he bought the team. How long they’re going to hold on to and not trade their excess pitching, as reported all year, is anyone’s guess.
sell some pitchers.
Yeah, so is my underwear.
Hahaha Nice fre5hwind….I honestly don’t know why they say they are in a “tight spot” though…Are they under some sort of “pressure” or something?? If so from who??? What is different this time around?
Ng has been a disaster so far
Until this season she never had an opportunity to make any decisions. Everything you see on the field came from decisions Jeter and his Yankee buddies made. Jeter was asked to leave in early 2022 and the rest of those guys are gone now.
Ng will be able to put her stamp on the team from this point forward. Give it a couple of years and see where they are.
In a couple of years they will be exactly where they are right now…
Carnac the Magnificent speaks. Your misogyny is showing.
@The Baseball Fan
What indication do you get that the Marlins will be in the exact same spot in a couple of years? Genuinely asking, because from my barely passing perspective of the Marlins, Ng has done what she can to improve the team with limited resources, some of which has backfired (such as Stallings, Soler, Avisail), but a GM picking up some players that falter is hardly unique to Ng.
Right, but when you look and see the amount of good decisions as a GM to bad decisions as a GM thus far, it becomes very clear the incompetence of this Marlins front office led by Kim Ng
You may be right, but it seems like a pretty small sample size. Especially when a majority of the problems seem to be offense related. I don’t know if it’s too reductive to solely blame the hitting coaches (it is entirely possible Ng just doesn’t have a good eye for talent), but if Soler and Avisail hit as well as they did prior to signing with the Marlins, would you and I still be having this conversation?
The problem is
A) Soler and Garcia are past their primes and any team willing to take them for more than a year is plain stupid
B) you could say if this if that (COVID, the lockout), but every other MLB team somehow still had winning off-seasons or performed well in this time, so what makes the Marlins so special?
C) Marlins offense is not the only problem, the lack of consistency in the bullpen and the unseen with the back end of the rotation are major holes that no well led team can have for years and years without actually winning.
There have been no decisions by Ng until this offseason. You have no bad decisions to point to.
Everything prior to this offseason was Jeter, Denbo, Mattingly and the other former Yankees crew in the FO. All of them have been fired.
Ng was retained. New people have been brought in to head up player development, scouting, MLB analytics, and other departments. There is a new manager and field staff. The only holdover there is Stottlemyre. .
Jeter signed Garcia. Jeter started the push for Soler and once the lockout was over the Marlins simply continued with his initiatives.
What has Ng done this offseason. That is all she is responsible for. Anything previous to that is on Jeter and his former Yankees crew.
The lack of player development by hitters was Denbo’s responsibility and he was fired in June of 2022.
The Marlins bullpen were all Jeter’s doing. Don’t like it? Blame the person who put that staff together.
When you assume the role of GM, you have responsibilities for all transactions that take place, whether you “pushed for them” or not. Pretty simple
A. That’s a pretty reductive argument. Both were in their early 30’s coming off of average/above average offensive seasons – hardly past their prime. I agree that 4 years was a little long for Avisail, but given that the Marlins are not exactly a hotbed for free agent talent, I would expect them to have to pay a bit more to attract players. Avisail was younger, was coming off a better season offensively, and while not a gold glover, is better defensively than JD Martinez who just signed for a smarter team in the Dodgers, so hardly the “plain stupid” move you say it is.
B. I’m not really clear on what this means. I think I was misunderstood, because I was making a hypothetical.
C. Fair enough on the bullpen woes, and if that is a complaint you have with Ng, then okay. But again, what if both the players I had mentioned hit even for league average. Ng just doesn’t look nearly as bad on those moves.
Everything you see on the field came from decisions Jeter and his Yankee buddies made. Jeter was asked to leave in early 2022 and the rest of those guys are gone now.
==============================
That makes her performance quite a bit worse. If you draw the line at February 2022, then Jeter gets credit for Alcantara’s extension, and Ng gets blamed for Soler and Garcia.
“Everything you see on the field came from decisions Jeter and his Yankee buddies made”.
He is right about this. Jeter was forced out after all the decisions were made for 2022.
Negotiations with the WS MVP Soler started in November before the lockout according to this website, so that was started by Jeter and with just a few days to fill out the squad after the lockout was lifted, nothing would have changed in what had been set in motion.
Garcia was signed before the lockout. That was also a Jeter decision.
There was nothing Ng could have done to change the team for 2022, so it doesn’t make her performance worse. It does make your misogyny clear.
Weird. I could’ve sworn I remember Jeter pushing for Castellanos. I don’t remember hearing anything from him about Soler and Garcia. mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/marlins-rumors-nick-cas…
I also find it funny how they spent more money combined on Soler and Garcia than Castellanos. In hindsight he didn’t exactly light it up last season, but I’d rather have him than those 2 going forward.
Of course they have the financial resources—they’re just cheap, like many other teams.
The most impressive feat that MLB has managed over the past three decades is convincing fans and the media that most teams are nearly broke, except for the Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox.
Here’s another media outlet carrying that water for MLB, as opposed to pushing back on the narrative.
And Mets, Padres, Phillies, and Braves.
How exactly do they have those financial resources when their ballpark (and a good one, at that) is consistently mostly empty?
We know from the Braves and Blue Jays that game day revenue, tickets, food, parking, etc…, make up less than 30% of total revenue. National and local TV deals, streaming media like Apple TV, and subscription services like MLB.tv and MLB Extra Innings, and MLB Network earnings make up the majority of revenue.
True, but that 30% still counts a lot towards what they can spend, and they don’t have good media revenue, either.
It’s a double-edge sword. You harshly criticize an organization and they cut you out of the press room and you lose inside sources. The candid reporters with the talent
to write move on to become analysts and bloggers and reach less eyeballs. No sources nor direct quotes equal less credibility to the common folks. The narrative keeps moving on.
MLB is on the verge of a severe class system. Sucks they are super profitable regardless what they do bc it’s about to get real bad
Big whiffa;
Great post!
It’s bad now, but yes, it’s going to get a lot worse.
The large market teams and others are going over the luxury tax limits, and why not? It’s a joke. They have the money to pay the tax. So they lose draft choices? So what. It takes 4-5 years for the better signees to be productive in MLB…..the majority drafted don’t pan out. Teams will just spend and get qualified, experienced MLB players right now. Let the small and mid market teams develop them.
The battle lines are starting to be drawn. This years signings and the ripple effect of the outrageous salaries are just beginning to take hold. Teams will find that they can’t wait to trade a player until his last controlled year and get much back for him. They’ll have to trade their good players sooner.
It’s going to get very ugly. As I keep writing, sports fans 40 and below living in mid and small markets don’t understand their top players routinely leaving their MLB teams when their NFL and NBA teams better players don’t have anywhere near that amount of turnover.
Said it before – Boxing and Horse Racing used to be 2 of the most popular sports in America (behind Baseball). And you know what killed them? Gambling. When sports fans got other gambling options they left because they didn’t really understand how those sports were played…..like MLB today.
No way a small market team is keeping up with the big market boys in that division.
No whitewashing of that disparity is going to cover up the obvious.
Except the Rays do it and the AL East is far tougher than the NL East. The NL East is only grabbing the headlines because of dopey comments like Middleton’s “stupid money” and Cohen spending like a rich kid who was given daddies credit card for the weekend
If it were that easy, people wouldn’t constantly be pointing to the Rays. Just because they manage to do it, doesn’t mean other teams are going to be able to.
Good point. They point to very few teams because there are very few who can do it.
The A’s are able to do it as well if that helps
Based on how this articles reads, and the evidence at hand, it appears that they could have the most money in MLB and not achieve success.
I don’t understand how money could fix anything they’re doing, except *maybe* getting a Kris Bryant-like player (doesn’t care about competing, just the top dollar) to go there.
This is clearly a strategy issue, a management issue, a philosophy issue, and a draft/development issue in Miami.
A big ticket acquisition will sell jerseys (maybe) but thats all. It won’t fix whatever is philosophically wrong with the inner workings of the organization
Remember when a wealthy and willing to spend heavily ownership group from the Hispanic community wanted to take over the team, but Manfred shoved him to the side so his buddies could take over the team instead? No mention of that in the article for some reason.
They have some great pitching. If they can strike gold with a slugger prospect coming outta nowhere and their pitchers stay healthy they could definitely make a run for a wild card spot. But a lot of if’s plus it’s the Marlins.
they could contact the orioles.i hear they are looking for pitching and they have a deep farm system.
Marlins won the Ozuna and Stanton trades hands down. Realmuto trade looking like a wash at this point. Yelich trade is an obvious loss.
Washington is in even a more sad state. They have access to the northern Virginia market, so there is that, though.
If ownership/management wishes to continue down this path,
as far as the current situation in MLB,
this team belongs in AAA.or the yet to be established AAAA
OR
Rather than base MLB divisions on “geography”
Perhaps at least one division could be set up based on minimal payroll teams
They should sign Ulysses McGill. Pay him with lifetime supply of Dapper Dan pomade.
I know players love to live in Florida for tax reasons and Florida is a great location for Spring Training facilities, but the fan support isn’t there. I’ve heard and personally experienced that Florida is really spread out, so it’s hard to get enough folks to show up to games at the stadiums.
Florida baseball just doesn’t seem to be something that clicks at the major league level outside of being a tax haven for players as private citizens.
Maybe liquidate, blow it up and allow the franchises to restart elsewhere.
It worked for the Montreal Expos turned Washington Nationals!
Nashville! I think that location would be tremendous. DD would be directly involved and demonstrate how these small market teams / expansion teams can spend if they want to. It would be great for that area and those fans.
Maybe they’re waiting for the smoke to clear from the big name signings, but all that will be left are scraps and crumbs. I think their inactivity is largely due to the fact that they feel hamstrung by the Soler and Garcia contracts. If the game plan is to wait until they’ve expired to make any moves they’re gonna be in the NL East basement for at least 2 – 3 more years.
The Nats might have something to say about that.
They should push harder or use lubricant then
Astros/Cardinals/Expos set up.
Funny I don’t see Marlins guy here. He’s usually all over the Mets thread.
Jeter was forced out because he and his Yankee cabal didn’t understand the dynamics of building a small market club.
Give Ng a couple of years and let’s see where they are.
Yeah just keep giving Kim Ng more and more time to make poor transactions. She deserves patience.
She hasn’t made any transactions until this offseason. Before this offseason it was 100% Jeter, Denbo and Mattingly making the calls.
His failures are the reason why Jeter was forced out and nearly all of his cronies have been fired in the FO, coaching, and scouting but Ng was retained. Even you should understand that.
Jeter was sick of the the poor allocation of funds by the Marlins. He wanted to keep Starling Marte and they chose to spend that money on two cream puffs in Jorge Soler and Avisail Garcia. Hard to argue Jeter was in the wrong there
He also wanted to sign Nick Castellanos iirc.
Jeter chose Soler and started the pursuit prior to the lockout. Said in interviews that a WS MVP was the type of player the Marlins badly needed. Jeter signed Garcia. You might want to read what Jeter said in interviews with McPherson about the possibility of resigning Marte.
I guess Portland and Nashville are the most likely places. Vegas seems like it is being saved for the Athletics.
Las Vegas is being saved for never. Its the 40th largest TV market. Salt Lake and San Antonio are larger markets.
Not to mention they are still hurting from Fernandez suicide and murder. That set them back years. Don’t think they’ve recovered in terms of prospects/talent since.
MLB take notice !! … This owner is trying very strongly to implode this Team …Having a wonderful ball park means nothing … The efforts to improve is NON-EXISTENT, the GM Ms. Ng is not even trying to make deals (neither signings nor trades) to get Major League quality players to enhance performance. Marlins and Pirates are the worst in MLB, but Marlins’ ownership and management is definitely, a disgrace to a decent and loyal fan base.
You felt your comment was so brilliant, you had to post it twice??
Thanks!
~Everyone
Thanks, Clepto Inebriato, or is it Clepto Mane ?
Where is this decent and loyal fanbase? Their attendance was lower than Pitt.
Their attendance was lower than the Yankees spring training games.
Bad teams start at the top and go down from there.
O’s stack up nicely as a trade partner. Have real need for high end starters and many middle infielder prospects to temp the Marlins.
Kim Ng has a tiger by the tail.. and she needs to hold on.. the other end has teeth !!
Strategic withdrawal by loading up the upper parts of their MiLB system seems to be the sole and exclusive way to achieve a chance at a competitive window.. Start with a judgement of the current roster w/ projected MiLB contributors.. Then trade from surplus to reinforce areas that are deficient. Focus on Competitive Balance Lottery Selections or above in trades..
Thoughts?
Geronimo, other than getting canned, what is the GM’s incentive to do so? Who is the “Tiger?” Where is the pressure? I agree with all of what you said by the way.
The tight spot was created by the team itself. Years of refusing to spend to improve while shipping out every player worth a thing have left them far below competition level. Poor trades where they hyper focused on pitching prospects (okay, poor is the wrong word here, but very short sighted to not ask for bats), Jazz aside, have left them with a strong, but not overpowering rotation, a terrible offense and a middling bullpen (see lack of spending). Its quite hard to feel bad for them. Their history shows an ability to develop talent but a disinterest to keep it. Alcantara is a machine and my personal choice for best pitcher on the planet but why keep him when you have no intentions to get serious? If they were to deal some of the arms they have to obtain hitters, they could be in the mix but they either refuse to or do not know how.
How could the Marlins be in a tight spot when they’re only a couple bats away from contending. They’ve been looking for those bats for a while but once they find them, look out
Did you read the words in the article? If so, I can’t help you.
I did read the article, I was also making a joke, one that has been a running gag for years. It’s ok to laugh sometimes
The obvious question is where they fall on the desire to compete/make a profit scale. It doesn’t look like the FO is in on the idea of spending to improve. That’s going to make it very hard going forward
Marlins will still be better than the Nationals this year
The move is to trade Alcantara for upgrades at three, even four, positions. The remaining rotation would still be promising.
The Marlins have been in a tough spot ever since they built their new stadium and lost their chance to get out of Florida.
Hopefully, the Rays won’t be as stupid…
Hard to build a team when 60% of the people are from somewhere else/retired and already have roots elsewhere to cheer for.
Mlbtr disappointed marlins pirates or royals made no $1b signing or 15 player trade at gm meetings.
same thing every year about low market teams.
marlins just one city away from competing.
Cards have a low to medium payroll, their teams compete.
Same thing with toranto – toronto cant compete in tough al east. but this year they did.
baltimore was a dominate team in the early
2010s
Citizen.. Hate to inform you but Toronto competed in 15/16/20/21/22 they had a 3 yr rebuild and are now willing to spend.
Trevor Rogers for Zeke Duran plus 2 other prospects. I have no clue what it would take. I’m just a fan with internet acess
Not enough baseball fans in Miami, Tampa, Oakland or Pittsburgh to have baseball teams They should move and those are your expansion teams.
Everyone says this, but Miami is very comparable to San Diego in almost every aspect. Once SD started spending the fans started coming in, but they were cheap as hell just a few years ago as well. The Marlins just need this fu*k face to sell the team and they’ll be alright with someone who invests in the franchise. Once they start putting superstars on the field then the big naming rights, TV deals, fans all start pouring in
100% accurate Chemo
The Marlins just signed a new local TV deal and naming rights to their ballpark for the first time in team history.
Winning will bring fans in, not spending.
Padsfan – But both of those deals were terrible. Loan depot? Come on man. They couldnt get a better deal because they stink and have no name brand on the field. Took them years to get that name on the stadium. Those things and winning is generally correlated to spending. Rays for example – They might not spend on the field, but they put money into the front office and research and development. The Marlins dont spend on either
Well said. It seems that MLB is going to need to figure out that the ‘boys club’ that they like to keep in ownership is not going to work in Miami. It’s pretty bad that they have preferred to have the likes of John Henry (who was rejected as an owner in the NHL because they knew a BS artist when they heard one), Jefferey Loria (who destroyed baseball in Montreal), and now Bruce Sherman instead of the likes of Gustavo Cisneros and Jorge Mas who have both, during the last two Marlins sales, wanted to buy the team and invest in them. Heck, Cisneros wanted to make the Marlins his feature sports team for his TV empire. And let me not even start on the added part of them keeping Mark Cuban out too. Miami needs an owner that wants to build this up…not use it as a cash cow.
MLB needs to take a look at what Micky Arison has said at times about sports ownership in relationship to his owning the Heat. Essentially for him, a sports owner is a custodian of a team for a city – for him, it’s not a very profitable business, but more of “an expensive hobby” that he gets to brag to his wealthy friends about when they’re talking about who has the most awesome toys. While it’s a crazy thought, all of us in Miami love Arison because of how his personal “expensive hobby” always makes sure that the Heat are a top notch franchise in the NBA. The Marlins need the same type of owner.
Incorrect about Pittsburgh and your recency bias is showing. The Pirates have a great ballpark and have been around since 1887. They are not going anywhere. If they somehow manage to put together another championship caliber squad (it’s been a while) intergenerational fans will come of out of the West Pennsylvania woodwork. You know this is true.
Owner Jeter seemed to promise but not deliver, while overseeing these drastic budget cuts. Perhaps he was interested in pocketing revenue sharing and then flew the coup after breaking even on initial investment. I don’t know the specifics of numbers, but how come no one is saying that Jeter has any fault here. Reminds me of former Rangers owner Tom Hicks the way he burned that fan base.
I don’t think anyone buys a team and expects an immediate ROI. It’s speculated that Jeter left bc Sherman didn’t want to spend on the players he wanted to improve the team. Jeter was also an advocate of the highly-respected Ng. However, her hands are tied as Sherman still refuses to spend. The truth isn’t ever going to come out as Jeter isn’t the type that spills the beans.
Jeter was forced out. That much was clear because he never quit at anything in his life and other than Ng and Stottlemyre, everyone Jeter brought in is now gone.
Its likely that Jeter signed an NDA.
Hey can anyone explain why Jacob Stallings is suddenly not a good defensive catcher and is a worse bitter since joining the Marlins?
Cursed organization. Most players go there and their career just dies
Just because Jeter was a good player doesn’t mean he would ever make a good team president. How many successful GM have been former players???
When you trade away Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna, Christian Yelich, J.T. Realmuto and numerous others over the span of 2 years and still don’t have a competitive, that is incredibly concerning.
Last year, the Marlins tried and miserably failed. There’s an alternate universe where Soler, Avi Garcia, Stallings etc overplay their contracts but this isn’t it. This offseason, the East’s rich got richer and the Fish froze in uncertainly.
Their best course of action would be to trade everyone. Alcantara and Chisholm…if they can’t extend ’em, trade ’em. The Nats understand the reality of the situation, and the Marlins’ best course is to try to catch up with Washington in the race to the bottom.
Wait enough years and Scherzer/Verlander will be out to pasture, Trea Turner and Bryce Harper will be long in the tooth. The Braves…well, the Braves will probably still be good. But when the time is right, the mighty Marlins will point their sword-shaped nose forward and aim it right where it counts.
It is going be very interesting to see what Ng can do over the next few seasons without Jeter and Denbo trying to run the Marlins like the Yankees.
We’ve already seen what she can do this offseason – absolutely nothing.
Restructure the MLB divisions:
Group the Marlins, Rays, Pirates and A’s together in the “CHEAPY” Division
Actually, I’ve felt this should be done. Divisions should be realigned by region. For the Marlins, they should be in a division with the Rays, Braves and probably a relocated or expansion team in North Carolina.
Make a division in the northeast with the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Red Sox and Blue Jays.
The website removed my previous question as to why this article did not hold Kim Ng accountable because apparently that’s inappropriate to ask. The website also removed my previous comment asking why the article didn’t discuss the other ownership groups that were not in Manfred’s pocket.
As you can see Ng has many apologists here. Has she made an inordinate number of bad moves? No, but having ONLY made the move of acquiring Chargois, she’s far from off the hook in my book. “Well, she only has the latitude ownership affords her.” Someone has to be held accountable. Bottom line she hasn’t signed anyone this winter despite the many holes that needs to be filled. It doesn’t matter why, but failure to do anything to address those needs is inexcusable especially when it’s clear to even the most pedestrian fan that those holes can’t be filled internally.
Why have multiple users had their comments removed when questioning the abilities of Kim Ng? Nothing about the comments violated any clearly stated terms of service. Why should we pay to subscribe to your website if overzealous moderators will remove our abilities to comment on posts?