With the new year fast approaching, here’s three things we’ll be keeping an eye on around baseball throughout the day today:
1. Does the Segura signing signal more moves for Miami?
The Marlins have long been considered a likely participant in the trade market this offseason, with plenty of holes in the lineup and a deep rotation from which to deal. This speculation is sure to increase with last night’s signing of Jean Segura to a two-year, $17MM contract. While Segura seems like a good bet to improve Miami’s offense, he’s a curious positional fit for a team that already has Jazz Chisholm Jr. and Miguel Rojas up the middle. Barring a position change on Segura’s part, it seems likely that Rojas will join fellow infielder Joey Wendle on the trading block. Rojas didn’t hit much in 2022 (72 OPS+) but could be attractive to teams looking for help at short as a glove-first, veteran option thanks to his strong defensive metrics last season that made him a finalist for the Gold Glove award. The Red Sox are known to have previously checked in on Rojas already this offseason, though the Marlins are said to have rebuffed Boston’s advances at the time. It’s possible Miami’s tune changes with the acquisition of Segura, though, particularly given the sides have since discussed Wendle in trade talks as well. Speculatively speaking, the White Sox could also make sense as a trade partner for one of Miami’s infielders given their hole at second base, while it’s possible the Angels could look to add a stronger glove to their shortstop mix than the current top options of Luis Rengifo and Gio Urshela.
2. Will the Mariners add a bat?
At the beginning of this offseason, there was something of a logjam in Seattle’s outfield, which was only exacerbated by their acquisition of Teoscar Hernandez from the Blue Jays. Since then, however, the Mariners have shipped out Kyle Lewis and Jesse Winker in separate deals, leaving them in a position where it could behoove them to add another bat to their outfield/DH mix. As things stand, Jarred Kelenic, Dylan Moore, and Cooper Hummel appear to be the primary internal options set to mix and match between left field and DH, and the addition of another bat could solidify that mix considerably. That could come through free agency, as Jurickson Profar remains on the market as an everyday option, while the likes of David Peralta and AJ Pollock could be added as more complementary options. It would be no surprise, though, if the Mariners decided to explore the trade market, given the thinned out market for starting pitchers and Seattle’s willingness to deal one of Chris Flexen or Marco Gonzales to improve other areas of the roster. Should they choose to go this route, striking a deal with the Cardinals or Orioles could make some sense, as both teams have an excess of position player talent and could benefit from the addition of an arm like Flexen or Gonzales.
3. Where does the infield market stand now that Segura’s off the board?
With Segura joining the Marlins, the infield market has lost its best remaining bat. There are still plenty of teams in need of an infielder, though, even in addition to the aforementioned Red Sox, White Sox, and Angels. The Dodgers, Braves, and Twins could all stand to add an infielder after losing their starting shortstops to free agency earlier this offseason, while the Giants and Tigers could also stand to upgrade their infield mixes. Elvis Andrus, Josh Harrison, and Evan Longoria represent the best options remaining across the infield, though players like Matt Duffy, Brian Anderson, and Cesar Hernandez could also be worth a look as potential bounce-back candidates. Shifting focus to the trade market, in addition to Miami, Baltimore could be another club to watch, as they could look to deal an infielder like Jorge Mateo or Ramon Urias to make room for their incoming infield prospects like Joey Ortiz, and it’s possible the Mets could look to deal Eduardo Escobar if the Carlos Correa deal makes it past the finish line.
The Marlins don’t have a 3B at the moment. Maybe signing Segura pushes Rojas to 3rd, with either Chisholm/Segura takes over SS, with the other taking 2B.
Rojas for Bobby D and prospects. Add Yorke and Bleis if MIA offers Lopez/Garrett.
Bleis should be untouchable
Marlins are not packaging Rojas with Lopez or Garrett
Would be really stupid to take a fantastic glove like Rojas and move it off SS.
Marlins fans have said that Rojas is likely on the block w/ Jazz going to SS. That makes more sense to me. Rojas isn’t very valuable if he’s not a SS. That’s essentially all his value.
The most likely outcome of this for MIA is to trade Wendle (likely to Boston), play Segura at 3rd, Rojas at SS, and keep Jazz where he’s comfortable at 2B. Segura hasn’t played much third, but he’s always had a very strong arm for a 2B and it’s not crazy to think he could succeed there. I don’t think it makes any sense to mess with a young superstar like Jazz’s development by shifting him back to a position where he struggled greatly just because you added Jean Segura
Marlins have Wendle, Berti and Leblanc. All of them capable of manning 3B.
You Red Sox fans are giving Dalbec the famous Andújar/Frazier treatment. Today, he has no value. On the other hand, I’m sure the Marlins might be interested in Duran, involving more players on both sides of a potential trade for Rojas or Wendle.
Duran is still more valuable than Wendle or Rojas. 1 year rental infielders that are more of the low end starter or utility variety.
They’re basically a salary dump for a lotto ticket. Boston has a full 40 man though so perhaps they would want to clear someone from there. I’d think Miami would be sending a small prospect back if Duran is the return.
You maybe overvaluing Rojas and Wendle.. He maybe the unofficial captain of the Marlins, but his value is not significantly more than Dalbec (who does not have much value himself either). Now the Marlins may not want Dalbec because they have other options to play 1B, but that’s a different reason.
Well, I did explain a Duran-Rojas/Wendle will require more players from both sides. You are right assessing Rojas’ and Wendle value, but I wasn’t the one proposing a trade involving Dalbec on the first place.
There is no business for the Marlins trading for Dalbec, even if he has the same trade value as Rojas. It’s a matter of what both teams need. The Marlins can use an OF like Duran and the Red Sox same with Rojas/Wendle. Yes, the Marlins will have to send a prospect to Boston, but why on earth would the Marlins want Dalbec?
Jon Berti, Joey Wendle, and Jordan Groshans all played 3B last year for them. Segura can also play 3B.
I assume the new manager will be moving his infielders and DH’s around as most teams do now.
You forgot Leblanc, who actually looked pretty good last year in his first taste after tearing up AAA
It just said Segura will play 3B.
I’m really surprised more teams (that are in playoff contention) didn’t give a solid look at Jean.
Yeah I’m a bit surprised. He would be a good depth piece even at that money.
A trade rumor with the White Sox is a headscratcher since they could’ve just signed him.
The White Sox have a lot of headscratchers these days
No, the White Sox couldn’t have just signed him, as they don’t have the payroll room to do so. Subtract Abreu and Pollock. Now add Civale and Benetendi. How much money do you have left?
I’m sorry, but this contract was absolute pennies. An $8.5MM AAV is nothing in today’s market, especially for a player who would plug a gaping hole. The White Sox absolutely could’ve afforded this regardless of how their payroll changed from last year. Reinsdorf is rapidly putting himself in contention for worst owner in baseball
Have to wonder how much a deal surrounding Urshela and Rojas is being talked about. Twins could upgrade at short and their really isn’t a natural third base option outside of Wendle in Miami
Urshela was traded to the Angels. I think they also could use a SS though so your trade could still happen
ohyeadam;
The Angels aren’t trading Urshela, he’s the 3B if Rendon goes down again.
If they want a good fielding SS that can’t hit, Andrew Velazquez is still on the roster.
Now that I think on it maybe the op meant a Rojas for Urshela trade would’ve been better for all of Twins, Marlins and Angels as the Twins needed to make another trade for Farmer and the Angels ended up signing Drury
Urshrla was traded to the Angels.
Marlins have been quiet on trading some starting pitching
Yankee fans will have a fit when Reynolds is traded elsewhere, probably traded after new years
i don’t see it happening this season since he doesn’t hit free agency until 2025.
2026?
You are correct. Thanks
Another possibility- could a deal for Devers centralize around Jazz/Rojas and Marlins pitching?
Maybe then the Sox swap Pivetta or Sale (i know the no trade clause) for a third baseman?
How could the Marlins ever take on devers ?? Marlins going to agree to a 400 million dollar contract extension prior to the trade ??
Come on man !
Would love to see 1 person take up 60% payroll. Oh, the insurance policy on that one.
Jazz is more valuable to Miami than Devers would be since he’s controllable and affordable.
In what way would it ever make sense for cost conscious team that is trying to “upgrade their lineup” to trade a)their best hitter who happens to be very affordable at the moment b)pitching for a guy who is ip against free agency who they would never be able to resign?
*Conscious, re-sign
Until I hear otherwise, I am thinking Jazz at 2B, Miguel at SS, and Jean at 3B.
I always thought Josh Harrison would end up in Cincinnati since he was from there for some reason. Probably never happen now with the youth movement there.
Baltimore has an excess of position player talent? They might have enough quality players to fill nine spots in the lineup. But an “excess” doesn’t seem to properly characterize the state of their roster.
The Marlins most likely are planning to trade an infielder. But regardless of what happens with Rojas and Wendle, a middle infield of Chisholm-Segura would seem to be the foundation, and then they would need to figure out third base from there. Groshans doesn’t appear ready. So, maybe Wendle gets traded, and Rojas and Berti handle third until Groshans can produce at the plate? Or do they trade Pablo Lopez to St. Louis for Nolan Gorman?
There’s “a bat” in Baltimore that might spring a LSP Lopez. Previous Marlin stories here suggest an upgrade at 1st base is needed. Oriole’s Mountcastle is young with proven MLB power and is cheap. Why move Mountcastle? IMHO, his right handed launch angle swing didn’t seem to be a good “fit” with the new deeper left field wall dimension at OPACY in 22. Change of scenery needed?
Plus, local media here says Baltimore FO is looking for lefty swingers.
Kill 2 birds with one stone? With blessings of Scott Boras, move the 6’3″ Gunnar H and his LH bat over to 1st fulltime with occasional 3b duties relieving Urias. And let Mateo, Westburg, Ortiz, Nordby (sp?), Prieto, Vavra and Holliday have it out over the next couple of years for up the middle playing time.
C Yards Jeff – Gunnar isn’t moving to 1B… The vast majority of scouts have him as an elite 3B and a plus SS. Sure, there’s an org gap at 1B depth-wise and a desire to get more LHH ABs, but Gunnar isn’t the answer at 1B. He’s too valuable defensively to the team on the left side of the IF. We’re more likely to see Santander, Stowers, Westburg, Frazier, (even Norby makes more sense IMO despite his height) etc, etc. getting reps at 1B than Gunnar.
Yeah, heck no on moving Gunnar to 1B. Negates his value significantly.
We’ll figure out 1B. Coby Mayo is the only guy in the system with a chance to claim it long term. The O’s LT answer probably isn’t in the organization currently.
I haven’t punted on Mounty yet though. His expected stats looked better than the actual.
I don’t think the ceiling is super high but if he can be at least a .270/.320/450 guy that is a big league starter.
@B38;hey there, maybe agree to disagree. Gunnar’s elite alright. An elite hitter. Os need his bat in the line up daily. IMO, 1b gets him those at bats. Plus it answers their need for a lefty hitter in house. He’s very good defensively, not elite and comparable skill level wise to the “log jam” (excluding Vavra, maybe Prieto) to the other players mentioned in this thread. Cheers.
C Yards Jeff;
Gunner has a great arm (no pun intended). Not wasting that arm at 1B. Brooks Robinson sees him as a long-term 3B. Says he’s a natural.
Contrary to belief by people that don’t follow the team, the O’s have more quality position players on the roster and in the high minors then then have positions for them. That will be sorted out the next 2 years.
Right now it looks like Jackson Holliday will be the long-term SS, probably up in 2025. I’m still concerned about getting some RH bats in there. Santander and Rutschman are both poor RH hitters. I like McKenna in the field but so far he doesn’t hit well. They have Vavra, Stowers, and Cowser that can play in the OF and acquired Cave from the Twins….all LH hitters. And there’s a rumor that they are looking for yet another LH hitting OF….not sure I believe that.
In short, they’d best keep Hays and Mountcastle and work to get more out of them, else that team will be facing nothing but LH pitching until they do something…heck, even Holliday bats LH.
@Samuel; hey there, Hope all is well.
Agree to disagree on Mountcastle. IMO, Os are not moving Mullins (fingers crossed) to get that young controllable LSP. Next in line is Mountcastle and maybe a top 30 to get a Lopez type.
At least in the beginning of 23, put a team out there with proven MLB experience. Urias at 3rd, Mateo at SS, I guess Frazier at 2nd. Hays, Mullins, Santander in OF. And even though it was a small sample size, Henderson! And not for his defense which is very good, at least not in 23, but for his hitting. Put him at 1b and leave him alone. Get that stud a full season of at bats. The dude rakes! And in the future, Mayo at 1st/3rd and Holliday at short and Henderson at 1st/3rd. 2nd base? Hmmm? Nordby, Ortiz, Westburg, Prieto, someone else???
How much Ortiz, Westburg, Nordby (sp?), and others factor in to 23 depends on Mateo’s offense performance and if possibly Urias gets traded.
My gut says McKenna is gone. I like him but he strikes out way to much. Vavra as a 4th outfielder?
I could see something like this, Jeff. However, a 1-to-1 swap of López and Mountcastle is a bit lopsided to the O’s benefit. Would probably need to include a higher level prospect like Westburg plus a bit of cash to get the deal done.
Seems like the O’s and Marlins are a good fit to make some type of trade happen. Could even see it expanding to include infielder swaps. Something like Lopez plus Wendle to the O’s and Mountcastle, Urias, and Stowers going to the Marlins. O’s fans might consider it an overpay but it does jive with the trade simulators and gives the O’s a quality rotation arm who might be agreeable to an extension.
Cedric Mullins for Pablo Lopez is the deal if you’re talking one for one. Those two are roughly equal in terms of years of control and performance.
Agree that Ryan Mountcastle is one of a number of pieces that would be needed for Lopez in a multi player deal. I do think that is the move Miami should make though. They have a lot of holes to fill so why not fill multiple gaps in one trade
Waymann – I don’t see the O’s trading Mountcastle. They just don’t have an in-house plan B in the org at 1B. Sure, a number of guys can learn the position, but none have been given the chance in games. And Wendle doesn’t sweeten the pot for the O’s either.
@Canuckleball; Yes, Cedric would get it done. I’m thinking Elias has him lined up for an extension before Adley. He’s that elite defensively. Amazing first step. Subtle, hard to appreciate unless you’re in the park with eyes glued on him. Watched him make 2 plays in one game backing up Hays in LF against the Chrissox this summer that won the game for us.
@Waymann; good point. Hope Ng picks Stowers. When watching him in person, he just doesn’t pass the eye candy test. IMO he’s got AAAA all star status written all over him.
Mullins has a whole extra year of control v. Lopez.
O’s won’t take that swap. Mullins is far too important. Not the kind of deal the Marlins need to make anyway. Lopez should be traded for a guy with 5+ years of control. Trying to get a playoff spot with that team right now is crazy. Firmly a 4th place team in their division and there’s no way in hell they’re winning a WC over LA or SD. & that’s excluding every other NL team.
The Marlins and O’s don’t line up anymore, IMO. O’s have a glut of ML and ML ready infielders. Marlins just signed Segura and traded for Groshans last year. But if we were trying— Cowser + Mayo makes more sense for their projected window.
As a Marlins fan, I disagree with you. A Marlins-Orioles trade makes a shitload of sense.
The Orioles can ask for Pablo (2 years control) + mid/high prospect OR Trevor Rogers (4 years control) + low prospect for Mullins and will get it done. The Marlins will even give you a throw in.
That’ll depend on what you like better: the present of Pablo (still with upside, as he is only 26) or the projection of Rogers (25) in two or three years’ time.
Not only that. The Marlins have a below-average bullpen and somehow an excess of middle infielders, specially 2B, which Baltimore can definitely use. All the sense in the world for a trade.
@BStrow; strong take. Ms and Os “don’t line up anymore”. Interesting. Can definitely see Ng pivoting to the Pirates for that Reynolds cat for sure!
@Habeto
That is completely incorrect for Baltimore. The orioles have so many potential 2B options. The middle infield depth we have is as much as any team in baseball.
For this year—Frazier.
Vavra, Norby, Westburg, Urias, Joey Ortiz, Mateo. Gunnar Henderson is likely a 3B for good now given our org strength but that’s another SS capable player.
Last thing we need is a 2B. Mullins is the starting CF. I don’t see him moving. He’s a core piece of a team that is on its way to contention.
Trevor Rogers is coming off a 5 ERA year w/ bad peripherals. They aren’t giving you Mullins for him. No possible way that would happen. I don’t think a Cowser for Rogers deal straight up would even happen. Marlins have to hold Rogers if they really believe he was the 2021 guy right now.
You’re freaking me out Habeto, you are freaking me out. Yes indeed Cedric would get it done. Don’t do it Mike E, don’t do it. Don’t trade Mr. Mullins!
@jeff
We could lineup with Miami. If they’re not looking for major leaguers. I don’t know why they’re looking for guys with 3+ years of service time back in trades.
Cowser+ Mayo make sense for Miami for a SP. This team is not making the playoffs in 2023. Cowser and Mayo are 2 potential regulars in 2024.
They don’t need any of our MIF’s though and that’s where we’re really stocked up at the big league level or very close to.
@BStrowman I assumed the main trade was Mullins for a SP. I have asked before which player would the Orioles are more willing to trade: Mullins or Cowser? And more often I got Cedric as an answer. What would you say? Baltimore fans are very high on Colton, and with all the reason. Please don’t say Hays is a CF because he is not (and for what matters, neither is Reynolds).
It just depends on when do you guys want to make the playoffs. Pablo can help you guys now, Rogers maybe next year. Trevor had a bad year, but he suffered from back problems on the first half. You can check his second half outings and be much more confident about his potential. He is a stud. And if you don’t feel confident with either, then Luzardo can also be considered. I think Cabrera’s value is higher than Mullins, and Garrett’s is much lower (he is more like a back-end starter).
I think both players will suit well in Miami right now, as I see 2024 a realistic year to contend for Miami. As for the proposed 2B, that was more asking for bullpen help for Miami. Sure you guys have a crowded INF but I see Wendle being valuable as a utility(he can play 3B, SS and 2B) and even insurance in case Frazier or Vavra do not pan out. Or maybe a bullpen piece for a prospect in a position you guys are thin…
The point is, Miami-Baltimore is a great trade match anyways.
@BStrow; I hear ya! Ng is a tough read. Are the Fish rebuilding, competing, something of both? Liked “team is not making the playoffs in 2023”
Cowser for sure is more tradeable.
A Lopez for Cowser starting point isn’t a crazy idea. The O’s window is longer than 2 years though. It’s really just opening. A guy with a longer amount of control is what I have to imagine would be desired. I just don’t believe Trevor Rogers has the value right now to make sense for Miami to deal.
If Elias believes in him I don’t think Cowser for Rogers is insane but seems unlikely to me at this point.
I don’t think Mullins is even remotely available for anything less than a stupid overpay like Archer was years back.
@Habeto
I like Luzardo a lot. He’s more of a power arm that Elias likes too. I’d trade Cowser for him tomorrow.
I haven’t heard him pop up as a trade candidate. that’s really the guy I want. Big lefty with plus stuff. Give him to Elias and the staff and develop him into a front end arm.
I agree, this would be a good move. Mullins has not been offered any extension, and they have Hays and others. I would think a package of Marlins’ sending Lopez, Anderson to Orioles for Mullins and Ruiz. Then the Marlins can send Rojas to Angels for Urshela..
No. But Who the heck is Ruiz?
Let me make a correction. Ramon Urias instead of Ruiz (wrong name). I like Rojas but if the Marlins are wanting to trade him , the Angels for Urshela can make sense. I think Wendle can recover and be a solid piece for the Marlins and he can back up the infield positions as well as Urias. During the season trade deadline , they can move someone for prospects that will help un the future.
They could always reclaim Lewin Diaz…
For Baltimore, you might call it a “logjam incoming” more so than an “excess”. They have over-performers like Urias and Mateo that still have plenty of team control but are being quickly chased by guys like Westburg and Ortiz that are shooting up through the minors. Same deal in the OF where they have Hays and Santander established but have Stowers and Cowser knocking on the door.
Marlins should sign profar and trade for Reynolds. That give em a lineup to compliment the rotation
Will the Marlins be able to re-sign Reynolds? If not, should they give up a package that the Pirates deems acceptable to trade Reynolds?
They could always put him back on market once they are out of contention but at least they’d be trying
Interesting names mentioned here as possibilities for the M’s. First time I have seen any of those players linked to Seattle. Quite frankly, I don’t think any one of them would move the needle. Although Jurickson would certainly fit the versatility mold that Jerry and Scott love so much.
2B Frazier, RF Haniger, LF Winker & DH Santana
or
2B Wong, RF Hernandez, LF Kelenic/Moore/Trammell/Haggerty & DH anyone not playing LF that day
An argument could be made that the first group would have been the better option for 2023.
100% agree. There are some in the fan base who seem to be clamoring for more DMo/Haggerty…. As if, their impressive runs as part timers are automatically going to translate into season long WAR as regulars. I’m really not seeing that. Those 2, I love them, but they need to be aptly
used utility guys.
I actually do think we could get a solid season in left out of the JK/TT camp. Obviously, there is a good chance that both kids just don’t ever put it all together. But I DO think both of them have shown enough to get “a look” out there. And neither would shock me if they could give us 2-3 WAR.
That said. It’s probably unlikely that BOTH of them hit for us.
Meaning, we absolutely need another bat for OF/DH. To me, it is a necessity.
Definitely agree. Just not sure who fits as that OF/DH bat, not sure the Mariners can/should match what the Pirates are looking for in a trade for Bryan Reynolds. But it would help the lineup a lot if Jarred Kelenic and/or Taylor Trammell can finally take that next step and fill that LF/RF spot pretty solidly.
Not necessarily. The Mariners need to play Kelenic and figure out if he is a long term piece or not and thats not going to happen by shuttling him back and forth to AAA.
As for DH, there are plenty of options still available. Trey Mancini, Luke Voit, Yuli Gurriel, Evan Longoria, Franmil Reyes, Adam Duvall, Nelson Cruz, Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer, Gary Sanchez, and others
I think the Mariners will pretty much stand pat now.
No more big bats, just the usual low-level tinkering.
Fred Park;
You are probably right. For the sake of my anxiety, I hope they make another move or two to improve their chances this coming year. But I fear that you are right.
One possibility I have been considering, is that the team intends to supplement what they have now as the get into the season and identify specific needs.
Obviously, that’s not what most M’s fans want to hear. But with the pitching and d I think this club could hang around for the beginning part of the season, then strike on a deal or two that could really help the club down the stretch and possibly make us true “contenders.”
SODOMOJO, Actually, that is pretty much what I meant, and how I expect it to go. It seems to me extremely likely.
Stand pat until we see how things are shaping up.
Jerry had said, “we just need to be patient”. I imagine that’s pretty tough for trader J, when he knows he’s sitting on at least two proven, capable MLB starting pitchers.
I expect a pretty significant trade for a controllable young outfielder, not named Reynolds, after ST starts, if not before.
Flexen and Gonzales, has to be burning a hole in his pocket.
I agree 100%! I can’t see Kerry holding onto Flexen and his $8 mil sitting in the bp waiting for an injury or long relief. There are no really popular names ready to come up on the offensive side to help out anytime soon. I think he wants to trade for a everyday controlled outfielder and Flexen and Kelenic will probably be in the discussion for a trade.
fwiw, I believe the Angels current top options at SS are Fletcher and Rengifo. I could be wrong, but I dont expect Urshela to log many innings at the position.
None of those guys are true shortstops defensively. The Angels would do well to upgrade if they’re serious about contending
Until the Marlins feel they have enough talent in house that they are only missing a couple of elite players they are willing to spend for you will not see any major moves.
The Marlins are in a terrible position right now for competing in division. They have three teams so far ahead of them in the NL East in talent they can’t even see them on the horizon. Worse, those teams are all in win now mode. You have 1 NL Central team, and 2 NL West teams that WILL be in the playoffs for certain. That is 6 NL playoff spots right there. For the Marlins to go all in, let alone somewhat in, makes no sense in terms of taking young controllable talent off their roster for ANY reason via trade. Why take on any major payroll? No reason.
What I imagine can happen down the line is a further buildup of Marlins in house talent to the point where they have to decide if they HAVE to strike before they lose their talent to other teams in free agency. My guess is a couple years down the line. This is a terrible spot to be in because it is such a small window for them, if any, before it is too late.
Valid point on the Giants and Madres both going to be in the playoffs
The Marlins have the best pitching staff in the entire division by a mile, so those teams are not as far ahead as you think – Especially if they add a 9th inning option who is effective at least 85% of the time. Their lineup, however, is a completely different story. If they find a way to make a trade for Reynolds and add a capable first baseman and closer, they’ll be competing next year and giving everyone fits. Mind you – They have the budget and prospects to upgrade this roster significantly in a shrewd way if they choose to.
By “best” pitching, do you mean starters? Do you mean the “best” pitching staff in total? Not sure about that, but they have competitive arms, and can pitch against most teams and hold their own.
The Marlins have a couple of very good starters imho, Their #3 has a good ceiling and #4, #5 are capable pitchers. The bullpen is pretty good, and closer is meh. It is a human that is throwing baseballs in the 9th inning.
As you rightly pointed out, the offense is bleh. Very little power, and just mostly bad contact and discipline guys. A lot have 90ish+ k’s and less than 400 AB’s. Few walks so bad OBP. Not many extra base hits either which is confusing with a team with a little speed playing in that stadium. So not many driving the gaps. The offense really doesn’t have anything to it in nearly any area. Of course, one year can show improvement in some players, and hopefully no regression anywhere.
This team needs a closer, and several impact players. That will cost money and losing prospects. I think the state of the National League east right now makes doing that prohibitive to the Marlins with the offense where it stands. It is just too much to ask for them to upgrade so many hitters and land a dependable closer all at once, especially with what was available, and the costs of these deals. I stand by thinking they are a couple years away from even contemplating a serious look at making a run. Even if they look like they may be close to a playoff berth it would be a really tough call to lose prospects for a shot to play a few extra games.
I sincerely hope the Marlins do well for their fans, but I don’t like where they are atm to make a serious run at costly talent, or lose their future talent to try to knock off teams with 230+ million payrolls.
Giants should sign Longoria to a 1 year deal imo. Dude’s still above average offensively and good defensively. I wouldn’t be upset to see them sign Profar too. Or a new POBO.
Oh boy, how I wish a Urshela for Rojas + low prospect trade. They signed Drury, they do not need Gio!
The Fish can definitely look better with a Gio-Jazz-Jean-Coop infield.
Kim Ng, call the Angels!
Omg – Please lord no more Cooper. Guy sucks and shouldnt be allowed to touch a glove
Who would you put on 1B then?
Before this off-season, the talk around the Mariners was about catching Houston. After a couple of sideways moves and no major free agent signings, maybe now the talk should be more about how to stay ahead of the Rangers and Angels. The possibility of finishing fourth in the AL West is very real now, as Seattle appears to have made only marginal improvements while their division rivals (besides Oakland) have gone all-out.
Slothcliff;
Thank you! I have WAY too many comments talking about how the Mariners are clearly better than they were at the start of last year. Too many of those comments conveniently ignore how Teoscar Hernandez is essentially Mitch Haniger, just a healthier version. Yes, Kolten Wong SHOULD be an upgrade over Adam Frazier, but the Adam Frazier coming to Seattle would be an upgrade over the Adam Frazier that played in Seattle this last year.
Just for comparison, these are career lines:
Mitch Haniger – .261/.335/.476
Teoscar Hernandez – .262/.319/.499
So Mitch gets on base a little more often, Teoscar has a little more power, but both are close enough that they are essentially the same player.
For more comparison, here is the season before coming to Seattle:
Adam Frazier – .305/.368/.411
Kolten Wong – .251/.339/.430
Adam was hitting more, getting on base more often, and Kolten had a little more power. So yes, Kolten Wong SHOULD be an improvement, but Adam Frazier was supposed to be as well. Oh, and Adam Frazier is still the younger player, so it makes sense that if there is any regression, Kolten Wong is the more likely player to experience the regression.
They might be slightly better than last year but they have done little to improve the offense. Currently, we don’t have a left fielder who knows how to hit. Maybe with the shift gone, Kelenic will hit better. We’ll see. The M’s should sign Peralta. He’s a lefty and better than any other option they gave for left field.
martevious;
This is why I’ve never been a fan of Jerry Dipoto.
He always seems to get a lot of pub going all out for name players as he “reimagines” his roster. But he tend to miss on a few (should be expected). At some point he has no excess players of quality to trade, and he’s up against his salary limit. That goes on for a while until his players come up for raises and he’s forced to trade some of the good ones off.
The Mariners owners are tapped out. The depth chart (Jerry’s teams tend to do little platooning – there are too many old guys on it and their defense is questionable in areas. If just one of their starting pitchers goes down with a major injury or has a bad 2023, that team is in trouble. This is what happens when a team goes “All In” and doesn’t have surplus quality players they an plug in when times aren’t perfect.
Why I like the Angels this year. Perry set up the structure the past few years – particularly in acquiring young pitchers and building a coaching staff to work with them. He spent this offseason acquiring depth – so that not only are players around to take over when injuries happen, but the manager don’t have to go by a depth chart, with the exception of a few stars he can play position players 5-6 times a week to minimize the chances of them suffering a major injury….as well as staying fresh for the stretch run and playoffs.
When you say it goes on for awhile. What the hell are you talking about! He inherited a team with a payroll at $175 mil that couldn’t win and a minor system rated last. He has already extended Crawford, Munoz, White and Julio. With more coming he has already stated. What players that have come up that were worth keeping that he traded away instead of extending?
And furthermore you have no ideal what his plan is. Your just speculating on the salary cap because he hasn’t spent ridiculous money. Nobody knows if he is setting money to the side to extend Teoscar, Wong, Raleigh, France, Gilbert Kirby later on. But because he hasn’t handed out $25 mil contracts he is out of money to spend? He has plenty of prospects to make a substantial trade with. Brash, Hancock, Dollard etc. The guy has built this roster through draft, development and trade. Only free agent is Robbie and Flexen. And most of the roster is controlled. You are something else man!
The most important part of what you are leaving out is availability. Doesn’t matter what the numbers say if Haniger is never on the field or isn’t productive when he is and trying to find his timing for over a month and into the playoffs. And with Wong he mashed right handers over his career. Much better than Frazier’s numbers. Just last year he put up all star numbers versus righties. Which Jerry has already said that Wong will platoon with Moore at 2nd base. Moore does really good versus lefties. So 2nd base should be much improved from last year.
Selah Rick 2;
That is exactly my point, though. 2B is SUPPOSED to be improved, but it was SUPPOSED to be improved last year as well, but look at how that turned out. Do I like the trade for Wong at 2B? Yes. Do I like the trade for Teo in the OF? Yes. Do I think those trades alone have improved the offense enough to make a difference? Not even close.
Too many people are comparing the teams at the start of the year, but it was the end-of-year Mariners who weren’t quite good enough to make it through the playoffs. And I personally don’t believe the 2 trades have done enough to make up that difference.
I agree to a point. Frazier hadn’t been the same since leaving Pittsburgh and they took a chance. It didn’t pay off at all. Wong on the other hand has been excellent versus right handers over his career. Having Wong and Teoscar Hernandez in that playoff series could have been huge versus the Astros good rind handed pitchers. But I do agree if they stop adding now and settle on Kelenic in left field it’s not good enough.
Flexen and Isiah Campbell to O’s and Santander to the M’s. There. Make it happen.
O’s could just sign Cueto and keep Santander.
Would not be surprised if the Mariners went for a low-ish risk/high-ish reward route with Adam Duvall to split time with Kelenic and to rotate through the DH slot. He has massive power and has much more defensive prowess than other DH-only types.
Otherwise it’s Cooper Hummel as the DH as it stands now. Maybe he’s the next Ty France, but maybe not.
Still would like an established higher leverage bullpen arm too.
Any team that settles for PROFAR in their OF is not planning on contending. Last year was his peak, and that’s not what you’ll get for your money. Stay away!
You know who would fit on this roster really well? Kyle Lewis! Right-handed DH who could platoon with Kelenic or Trammell through adding a full-time OF. Like say, Bryan Reynolds becomes the LF for the Mariners. Kelenic could be the starting RF with Hernandez DHing against righties. Against lefties, Lewis could’ve DH’d with Hernandez playing RF. Mix in a few days of Hernandez in LF when you want to give Reynolds a 1/2 day by DHing or move Renolds to CF to give Julio a 1/2 day off to DH as well.
If he can walk to the plate. And that’s a big if.
Are we going to trade toget him back?
The best solution for the Mariners whether they target Devers, Reynolds, or any other big name players would be for them to lock in some certainty by trading Flexen and Marco to the Orioles with about $10M in salary, plus Taylor Dollard, Diego Castillo, and Tyler Locklear. The Mariners get back Kyle Bradish and Anthony Santander.
Santander is a lefty mashing switch-hitter who can fake it as a left-handed bat if necessary. Brdish solves a problem for the Mariners by giving them someone to pitch5th on opening day but has two options to use if someone breaks into the rotation either in Spring Training or during the season like Kirby did in 2022.
Marco and Flexen have to be carried on the active roster and the Orioles have struck out for the most part in adding veteran starters outside Kyle Gibson. Gibson Gonzales, Flexen, Wells, and Kremer looks like a solid inning eating rotation, even if they are all 3s and 4s. A step up from what they would be pushing otherwise.
It solves the 5th starter role for the Mariners while offering some roster flexibility. Santander can be as big or small of a role as he wants to be based on what they do and how he plays. He was a 33 HR guy in Baltimore and statcast says his swing would play even better at T-Mobile Park. Worst case a Bryan Reynolds acquisition could make him a regular DH.