Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto wasted little time making his first big splash on the trade market this offseason, as the Mariners announced Wednesday that they’ve acquired All-Star right fielder Teoscar Hernandez from the Blue Jays in exchange for setup man Erik Swanson and pitching prospect Adam Macko.
Hernandez, who turned 30 a month ago, will give the Mariners a heart-of-the-order slugger who’s posted a stout .283/.333/.519 batting line with 73 home runs and 71 doubles through 1337 plate appearances over the past three seasons. Hernandez has been a Statcast darling since the time of his big league debut, regularly posting top-of-the-scale exit velocity and hard-hit rates; that was no different in 2022, when Statcast ranked him in the 94th percentile or better in hard-hit rate, average exit velocity, max exit velocity, barrel rate and expected slugging percentage.
That penchant for elite contact and plus power output from Hernandez comes at something of a cost. While he’s curbed his once-sky-high strikeout totals to an extent, Hernandez still fanned in 28.4% of his plate appearances last season. He got the strikeout rate all the way down to 24.9% in 2021, so there’s perhaps hope for some further gains, but as of right now that number is an outlier with regard to the rest of his career. His walk rate, meanwhile, has steadily clocked in between six and seven percent over the past few seasons — a good bit shy of league average.
Beyond the huge power, Hernandez possesses deceptive speed. He’s only tallied 24 steals (in 32 tries) over the past three seasons, including just six in 2022, but Hernandez’s sprint speed ranks in the 84th percentile of MLB players, per Statcast. With slightly larger bases expected to perhaps spur a bit more running in 2023, Hernandez is among the many players who could conceivably begin to take off with a bit more frequency. Hernandez is also known for having one of the game’s strongest throwing arms. Despite that speed and arm strength, however, he draws consistently below-average grades for his glovework in right field; Defensive Runs Saved and Outs Above Average have pegged him as a negative defender in each of the past four seasons. In 2022, he tallied minus-3 DRS, minus-5 OAA and a minus-3.1 Ultimate Zone Rating.
Even if his speed and arm don’t translate to plus right field defense, Hernandez has been a well above-average all-around player in recent years, when looking at the sum of his parts. Both FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference peg him right at eight wins above replacement in his past 324 games. Those 324 games have come across three seasons, though one was the shortened 2020 campaign. Generally speaking, Hernandez has avoided major injuries. He missed three weeks this season due to an oblique strain and was sidelined in 2021 by a positive Covid test (plus three games on the paternity list). Overall, however, he’s played in 84.3% of his team’s possible games since 2020.
Barring an extension, Hernandez will be a one-year rental for the Mariners — and a relatively pricey one, at that. Hernandez will reach six years of service time in 2023 and become a free agent next winter. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects a sizable $14.1MM salary for him this season.
Dipoto said at last week’s GM Meetings that he sought at least one outfield upgrade this winter, if not two. Hernandez should slot into right field alongside center fielder and AL Rookie of the Year Julio Rodriguez, but his presence in Seattle creates some additional questions. The club opted not to make a qualifying offer to Mitch Haniger, for instance, and while Hernandez’s acquisition doesn’t squarely rule out Haniger returning to rotate through the outfield corners and DH, today’s trade inherently makes a reunion feel less likely.
The Mariners will have to determine whether they’re comfortable with a combination of former top prospects Jarred Kelenic, Kyle Lewis and Taylor Trammell in left field. Jesse Winker is another left field/DH option, though as of yesterday, the Mariners were discussing trade packages involving Winker. It’s easy enough to envision that group, with some help from utilitymen Dylan Moore and Sam Haggerty, holding down the fort in the corners and at DH, but further additions shouldn’t be ruled out.
The Mariners, after all, are squarely in win-now mode. And even with Hernandez aboard, they have ample payroll capacity; acquiring Hernandez is an approximate $12.7MM net add to the payroll, as Swanson had been projected by Swartz to be paid $1.4MM. They’re projected by Roster Resource for a $143.5MM payroll following the swap, and that’s a ways shy of the $162MM peak they trotted out in 2018. A return to the playoffs has likely boosted revenue a bit, and MLB has agreed to various lucrative streaming deals that afford each team considerable annual payouts in the five years since that previously established record payroll.
Turning to the Blue Jays’ side of the deal, they’ll simultaneously add a much-needed power arm to the bullpen and shed that aforementioned (and approximate) $12.7MM in payroll. They’re still projected for what would be a franchise-record Opening Day payroll in the $176MM range, but the trade gives them some more flexibility while adding a crucial arm to the relief mix. Swanson, originally acquired by the Mariners in the trade that sent James Paxton to the Yankees, struggled as a starter but has broken out as a powerhouse in the Seattle bullpen.
The 3.31 ERA, 24.3% strikeout rate and 6.9% walk rate Swanson logged in 35 1/3 innings during the 2021 season were a step in that direction, but it wasn’t until this past season that he became a dominant late-inning force. Swanson’s 2022 campaign resulted in 53 2/3 innings of 1.68 ERA ball with a massive 34% strikeout rate against just a 4.9% walk rate. In all, since establishing himself in 2021, Swanson owns a 2.33 ERA in 89 innings of relief — a mark that is largely supported by fielding-independent metrics (2.59 FIP, 2.87 SIERA).
Swanson is an extreme fly-ball pitcher, so some may have concern about his transition from a pitcher-friendly setting at T-Mobile Park to the homer-happy confines of Toronto’s Rogers Centre, but the fact is that very few of the fly-balls he yields are hit with authority. Among the 385 pitchers with at least 80 innings over the past two seasons, Swanson has induced infield pop-ups at the sixth-best rate in MLB.
Swanson was also a batted-ball deity on the mound in 2022, ranking near the top of the league in terms of average exit velocity (98th percentile), hard-hit rate (96th), expected ERA and wOBA (97th), expected slugging percentage (94th), overall strikeout rate (96th) and opponents’ chase rate on pitches off the plate (93rd). He may not be a household name, but for the 2022 season at least, Swanson can lay claim to legitimately being one of MLB’s most dominant relievers.
Unlike Hernandez, who’ll be a free agent next winter, Swanson is a relatively long-term piece for the Blue Jays. With three-plus years of Major League service time under his belt, he’s controllable through the 2025 season. And, because his breakout was of the “late blooming” variety, he didn’t build up the type of long track record that would reward him handsomely in his first trip through the arbitration process. The Jays will almost certainly pay Swanson less over the next three seasons than they’d have paid Hernandez in 2023 alone.
It’s the same timeline to free agency shared by Toronto closer Jordan Romano, who’s also controlled through 2025. Swanson figures to serve as the primary setup option to Romano, though he’ll be joined by veterans Yimi Garcia, Anthony Bass, Adam Cimber and Tim Mayza in what already looks like a deeper and more formidable relief corps.
Also heading to Toronto in the trade is the left-handed Macko, a significant addition to the team’s prospect base. Baseball America and FanGraphs both rated the 21-year-old as Seattle’s eighth-best prospect, touting his curveball as anywhere from a plus pitch (60-grade, FanGraphs) to a plus-plus (70, Baseball America) offering on the 20-80 scale. His fastball is another above-average offering, climbing as high as 98 mph, and his slider gives him the potential for a third average or better pitch.
Injuries — most notably a shoulder issue — and spotty command have been red flags in Macko’s development thus far. He pitched just 38 1/3 frames at High-A in 2022, logging a 3.99 ERA with a massive 35.9% strikeout rate but also a concerning 12% walk rate. It’s a pair of major “ifs,” but if Macko can get healthy and refine his command to even just shy of league average, the potential for a quality big league starter is present. Failing that, the fastball velocity and wipeout breaking pitch have obvious late-inning relief potential. Baseball America’s scouting report on Macko notes that he was one of the Mariners’ most sought-after targets in recent trade talks, too, and the Jays themselves could very well be asked about him in talks with other teams moving forward.
Overall, trading a popular and gregarious middle-of-the-order hitter for a reliever, even an ostensibly excellent one, could be a tough pill for Jays fans to swallow. That said, there’s clear potential to come out ahead in the gambit, as they’ll add three years of a bargain-priced, high-end reliever and a prospect with potential to quickly rise up national rankings with some better luck in the health department. The $12MM+ in payroll savings figures to be reallocated to free-agent pursuits or perhaps to additional targets on the trade market, too, so this will be but one step in a layered process that could ultimately benefit both teams.
As for the Mariners, they’ll add a thunderous bat to the heart of a lineup that also includes Rodriguez, Ty France and Eugenio Suarez. Dipoto and his charges, however, figure to continue to add to the lineup as they seek to take the Mariners beyond the ALDS heights they reached in 2022. Parting with Swanson thins out the bullpen, though Seattle is deep in that regard. Parting with Macko subtracts yet another quality prospect from a farm system that has been depleted, but not emptied, by recent trade activity (Luis Castillo, most notably). That said, even if the M’s can’t extend Hernandez, he’ll be a clear qualifying offer candidate next offseason, so they could potentially recoup a 2024 draft pick in the event that he proves to be a one-and-done case in Seattle. And for the time being, there’s no denying that the team’s 2023 lineup looks decidedly more formidable with Hernandez aboard.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported that Hernandez had been traded to Seattle (Twitter link). TSN’s Scott Mitchell reported that the Jays were getting bullpen help, and Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times first reported the specific names involved.
Johnny81913
Winker heading back I’m guessing along with more
chrcritter
Or perhaps Marco Gonzales
dmarcus15
or are they going in on judge
BPax
Welcome Teoscar! As a longtime Mariner fan, let me express disappointment right up front at your slide in offense this coming 2023 season to .246, 14 HRS, 63 RBI, 623 OPS, You’re very far from alone in this phenomena.. If I’m wrong, I’ll be really happy to be.
Joe Carters walkoff
You’ll be very wrong
Ma4170
Agree I see more of a 25+ 80+ 800+ ops
Shoguneye
Trending lower in contract year? Dont see it. He’ll have a monster year just keep a lot of sunflower seeds on hand
JaysForDayz
This should be interesting…
DarkSide830
WHAT
thebaseballfanatic
Jays have a RHH OF surplus and Hernandez has 1 year of control. If they aren’t going to extend him then now is the time to trade him.
DarkSide830
I mean, why not extend him? Seems weird to move him during a competitive window, return be darned.
thebaseballfanatic
With what money, though? Bichette and Guerrero Jr. will want huge paychecks in extensions and the Jays projected payroll for this year is already over $180 M. Trading the $11 million salary of Hernandez seems like a justifiable decision assuming that Rogers doesn’t want to exceed the luxury tax threshold.
A'sfaninUK
@DarkSide830 see, there’s this thing called “selling high”….Teoscar has likely peaked.
Ma4170
Not seeing that at all
ayrbhoy
Selling high- you mean like selling high on Eric Swanson? Who up until this year was a middle RPer? Swanny came over in the Paxton deal as a young SP. He was demoted to the BP has had 2 seasons of less than stellar production in the Pen. Introduced a new pitch for the 2022 season- a split finger. Gradually moved up into higher leverage spots in the Pen as his ERA plummeted. M’s have essentially flipped 5 months of success in the BP into an All Star RF replacement for Haniger
DarkSide830
Could have sold him in previous seasons and gotten much more.
Latino Heat
The jays are a contender. Getting rid of one of your better hitters is never a great idea
A'sfaninUK
I agree, but no one wants players like that, except idiots like Dipoto.
A'sfaninUK
He’s like their 7th best hitter?
Latino Heat
you sound more clueless every single day. Name 6 hitters on the blue jays that were better than him. He has one rough year where he still puts up decent numbers and all of a sudden he’s garbage? I wish the Astros never got rid of him
dumper
Yo @A’sfaninUK you sound salty about this moveTeoscar ain’t Winker, Winker was lazy and a horrible teammate. Can’t imagine anyone else being like that
RunDMC
Don’t worry about Bichette — didn’t ya hear he’s being traded for Acuña?? lol
A'sfaninUK
He’s not garbage, he’s just the same player as Jesse Winker, and we just saw what happened to Winker. It’s gunna happen again, watch.
A'sfaninUK
@dumper are you a pro baseball player for the Mariners? If not, then you are lying about “lazy and horrible teammate” and then your dumb reply here then has the audacity to say you yourself has never called any player lazy or a bad teammate before. My god you dont know anything about ball.
I have no skin in this game, I get to see Teoscar more while he has a .695 OPS. A’s pitching prospects are all coming now too, have fun lil guy!
dumper
Well buddy you are right that I am not a pro ball player but Ryan divish came out with a statement saying everything I just said. Not exactly sure why you are so opinionated about this. If Teoscar sucks, he sucks. All I’m saying is Winker never tried and it was evident by just watching him play defense. Teoscar also isn’t great at defense, but he certainly will hustle more than Winker did. Sounds to me like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Jung Like My Daddy
Balancing your lineup and getting consistently good pitching beats pure offense every time.
Losing 8 to 5 is worse than winnings 3 to 2. Jays need better balance and consistent pitching (SP + RP) more than just offense.
Ben10
This feels like a fairly balanced trade on paper. M’s deal from their surplus of pitching for a much needed quality middle of the order corner OF.
Hopefully Flexen and or Marco can fetch us a decent reliever or some prospects. If anything, it’ll just be nice to clear the books. Same goes for Winker.
Jesse had a monster season in ’21, and battled injuries all year long. His defense is a major liability. If Seattle has a chance to offload him, they should.
Great job Jedi! Now go and get Sengal, Yoshida, and a SS.
GarryHarris
Seattle can send Flexen and Marco to Detroit for Javier Baez.
Dogham
The playoffs shire didn’t prove that.
JoeBrady
I get to see Teoscar more while he has a .695 OPS
=============================
Sorry dude, but that’s an idiotic statement. Teo has averaged .852 over the past three years, and you think he is going to drop to .695?
Maybe, just for fun, explain the science behind that.
flamingbagofpoop
No, he’s just a troll or the most clueless baseball fan. He has some really, really awful takes.
myaccount2
Yeah, Dipoto is such an idiot he rebuilt the M’s into a legit contender over a 3 year period. Sorry the tables are reversed and the A’s are the trash of the division for once instead of the Mariners, but this just sounds like pure salt from an Oakland fan. Hernandez was probably the 4th best hitter on a team with arguably the best lineup in baseball and he was traded for a guy we refused to use in the playoffs and a prospect who seems like a future 5 or a middle reliever himself.
Chester Copperpot
The playoff shire? Where is this magical place? I want to go to there.
Latino Heat
Still waiting on the 6 players better on the jays
smuzqwpdmx
Why not extend him? One and only one real reason: George Springer is going to need right field, if not in 2023 then certainly 2024 and beyond. You can’t extend another right fielder knowing Springer’s contract. Teo hasn’t looked particularly good in left.
I think they could’ve gotten more, though. A setup guy and a prospect who looks like the next Nate Pearson doesn’t seem like much for an everyday outfielder who, although expensive, is worth far more than his salary.
Joe Carters walkoff
I agree with everything you said other than 1 small point. He was arguably the 5th not 4th.
Springer
Kirk
Bichette
Guerrero were all a bit ahead
Shoguneye
Lets hope hes not the next Nate! Need the guy to actually take the mound
myaccount2
That’s fair. I suppose I should have said “arguably” 4th best instead of “probably” 4th best because I suppose it depends on the offensive characteristics you value most. If you prefer slugging, Teo is your guy; if you prefer BA/OBP, Kirk is your guy. I just chose Teo ahead of him because he had a higher OPS+, albeit only by 1 point haha
bengalsmarinersfan13
Remember when the mariners traded Randy Johnson because of his back injury and he “likely peaked” to the Astros. Damn that still haunts me
KamKid
Unless they had plans on contending this year…
Ma4170
Where’s the surplus? Gurriel and injury prone springer? They just cut tapia and even Zimmer
Dustyslambchops23
Clearly they feel comfortable in replacing him in the lineup and field, so felt it was okay to move him.
I’m not shocked they moved him, he never felt like an extension candidate, an underrated hitter the last 3 years however had some concerns over consistency in effort, which I think the jays will look to be a focus next year.
That being said, the return seems super light given Teo is a prime QO candidate. This is a great move by the mariners
Ma4170
Agreed, and that’s where I’m going… how could they not get a better return from another team? Something reeks of a clubhouse issue, not just a rental situation.
jimmertee
I have been saying it for a while. There is a clubhouse issue on the Jays with Teoscar and I applaud Shapiro/Atkins for trading him.
yick04
If I see the name “Chris Flexen” I will quit baseball and move out to the woods.
Chester Copperpot
I found Flexen’s burner account!
thebaseballfanatic
Well, rumours were correct, let’s see the return.
hiflew
Well, when the rumors involve Jerry DiPoto making a trade, it’s not exactly stepping out a limb to make that call.
Mario93
Wowwwww…. He’s a great player. Wonder what we got back. Wowwwwwwww
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
Mariners aka America’s team
A'sfaninUK
America has a couple rings called WW1 and WW2 though, Mariners should be contracted for not winning a ring in 50 years, just like all teams should be.
Lanidrac
So no Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Phillies, Guardians, Orioles (from when they were the Browns), Twins (from when they were the Senators), etc?
Besides, the Mariners have only failed to win for 46 straight years (45, not counting 1994), not 50.
toycannon
Blech. Would have preferred they kept Mitch. Kelenic had better not be going north in exchange.
DarkSide830
Teoscar is better than Haniger
A'sfaninUK
Winker = Teoscar though
Ma4170
In what world does winker come close to teoscar?
A'sfaninUK
This one. Tesocar isnt his 2020 stats, those were clearly an outlier, and he wont put up Jays numbers in the AL West. He’s getting older too.
DarkSide830
I mean, maybe, but who is better this year? After last year Winker’s production is a question mark.
Ma4170
not true at all… You did see his 2021 was just as good as his 2020 (don’t be a slave to OPS+, just look at the season)? And last year after recovering from the oblique, basically the same guy, just w some harder luck BABIP. We’ll see how the season goes, but plenty of teams would’ve benefited from having him, and I’m confident he’ll produce again, as usual. Winker can’t even keep a starting job, that’s a joke comparison.
A'sfaninUK
Whatever, thats recenecy bias: Winker was much better in Cincinnati then Teoscar was in Toronto, and they then both go to pitcher friendly team/div and get owned. That’s whats happening, bet.
coloredpaper
Hold on, the same Winker who hit .219 with an OPS of .688, and hit 14hrs and 53rbis this year? The same guy who’s averaged 103 games, only 16hrs in the past 4yrs?
Equal to a guy who hit .267 with an OPS of .807 and 25hrs and 77rbis this year? Who has averaged 112 games, and 25hrs in the past 4yrs?
Dang, Winker has way more fans than I would have thought…
coloredpaper
Hold on, the same Winker who hit .219 with an OPS of .688, and hit 14hrs and 53rbis this year? The same guy who’s averaged 103 games, only 16hrs in the past 4yrs?
Equal to a guy who hit .267 with an OPS of .807 and 25hrs and 77rbis this year? Who has averaged 112 games, and 25hrs in the past 4yrs?
coloredpaper
Sorry for the double post. The app keeps giving a posting error.
bullred
A’sfaninUK – You are clueless. You obviously don’t watch baseball and that is fine but don’t come on this baseball site and troll people for kicks. Go to a pub. My god! Everything you have spouted on here is utter clueless garbage. I’m thinking you are really Atkins little nephew that he paid to come on here spew BS to try to calm the Jay’s fan anger. Fake news does work as you can say stupid stuff like ” hes the jays 7th best hitter” and most people won’t actually go and check to see that he is actually the jays 2nd best hitter. For now I will go with you just being clueless though. Have a nice day!
Ma4170
No… he wasn’t… and winker can never play a full year bc of injury so his true value is even lower than it looks on paper
martevious
Wow! Winker actually hasn’t had even one great year!
JoeBrady
Winker = Teoscar though
===========================
Over the past three years, Teo has an 8 bWAR while Winker has a 3.7 WAR.
JoeBrady
Whatever, thats recenecy bias: Winker was much better in Cincinnati then Teoscar was in Toronto,
=============================
Just for fun, let us know which season(s) Winker had a better bWAR than Teo. Go back 6 years. I’ll wait.
Lanidrac
Yeah, and recency bias is a good thing to use when judging current MLB players.
JoeBrady
Teoscar is better than Haniger
=========================
Maybe, or maybe not. It depends on whether or not you expect Haniger to remain injury-prone. Since 2017, Haniger’s cumulative bWAR is 15.6 against Teo’s 10.6.
yick04
TEKNIKLY Toronto is south of Seattle 😀
drew ford
Little known fact: Seattle is farther north than Toronto.
rct
“Kelenic had better not be going north in exchange.”
Fun fact: Seattle is quite a bit further north than Toronto. Over 200 miles.
Hello, Newman
Wow, I thought Teoscar was much younger than 30
justmosssin
To me, Teo is the type of dude that, if healthy, will hit 25-30 HRs until he’s 36. I’m sure the BA will decrease but, Teo’s got some easy power to all fields. This hurts for Jays fans, regardless of the return. I don’t think Toronto is getting the best player in this deal. Good SEA move imo
Ma4170
Agreed… actually mad my Mets didn’t get him
Hello, Newman
Honestly it seems like a pretty fair deal for a 1 year rental, just weird timing.
Starvenger
Seattle certainly got the best player. But I think the impending free agency + the need to pay Vladdy and Bo played a factor in trading Teo. Hopefully this trade works out for both teams.
SODOMOJO
SUDDENLY THERES A TENT PITCHED IN MY PANTS
Larry Brown's crank
sodomojo…..I don’t get it…what does that mean?
SODOMOJO
Larry, we’re not talking about practice bro
Bart
Dont ask, dont tell
bullred
Your welcome. I get that reaction alot.
Bledcam
Toronto was looking for a lefty bat, weren’t they? Could see Winker as a Blue Jay.
myaccount2
Dipoto keeping that financial flexibility with this move. Nice. Need to see the return before I feel too excited, though.
jdgoat
Hoping this means Nimmo will be manning CF in Toronto.
Ma4170
Wow that’s a good call
all in the suit that you wear
Agreed. If Toronto picks up more offense somewhere else, this could all be good for them.
all in the suit that you wear
Now that I see the return for Toronto, I don’t like the deal for them. I think Teoscar is worth more than a relief pitcher and a prospect. Good deal for the Mariners.
#1WhiteSoxFan
I wonder whether the White Sox made an offer!?
bullred
Yes I agree. It is a little shocking to be honest. That’s alot of production to replace. Atkins needed some payroll breathing room but you should still be able to get more for Teo .
bigdaddyt
I like it and don’t, 21 year old who barring injury can only see stock rise and another good late inning reliever is exactly what they need. This move frees up RF for George and frees up more money, they’ve cleared about 20 million in projected salary the last 2 days
Dustyslambchops23
I sincerely doubt the Mets get outbit.
I’m sure the jays have a plan though. If whit or Biggio are starting in the OF we have problems
iverbure
Wow another non CF paid CFer money to not be a good CF, at least he’s LH.
TennVol
My guess, Winker and Flexen coming to the Jays
thebaseballfanatic
Add some other cash considerations/minor player and that sounds like a pretty fair deal.
neo
Probably Winker and Murfee is my guess.
Edp007
That’s a tough bat to give up , better be getting more than Winkler and Flexen as rumoured yesterday on jays radio
BadCo
Be nice to hear the return
RunDMC
TOR finally gets their LHP: Robbie Ray
A'sfaninUK
Arent Teoscar and Winker basically the same player?
M’s is for maybe
Lol not even close.
A'sfaninUK
You dont know ball if you honestly think this.
Bro, Teoscar isn’t that good!
bullred
SMH
martevious
He’s better than Winker. Winter’s best year would be behind Teoscar’s 2 best years
M’s is for maybe
LOL
usafcop
Teoscar would be the A’s best player….lmao
usafcop
Typical A’s fan: Teoscar isn’t that good
Everyone else: He would be your best player
marinersblue96
Arent Teoscar and Winker basically the same player?
===========================================================================
Seriously??? What are you talking about. These players are roughly the same age and Teoscar has a career 10.8 WAR and Winker has a career 5.1.
The last 3 years Winker WAR is 3.7 while Teoscar is 8.1.
Basically he’s twice the player of Winker and at least 3x a better defensive OF.
I know you like to troll, especially the M’s but you are now just ridiculous.
Stevil
Never mind that guy. He’s just here to talk trash.
The correct comparative is Mitch Haniger–and that’s not a jab at either player.
Ma4170
Wow that’s a big move for the mariners. Teoscar is a big bat whose hard contact always top flight. Toronto better be getting something substantial (winker and Flexen would be a terrible return IMO)
compassrose
My vast network of super secret moles have said Flexen and Winkler and we pay half of money owed to Winker. I am not sure how my moles know they never leave my yard. We will see how smart the ugly little thing’s are.
Tacoshells
Dang mariners making moves !!!
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
Not Flexen
Fred Park
I wonder what our commenters will make of this trade.
I for one am kind of ho-hum about it for the time being.
He’s a really good bat, yes, but what do we give up?
Fred Park
So it is now revealed that we give up Erik Swanson.
I don’t like that one bit, and Hernandez is no spring chicken.
Swanson is so dependable in those tough games. The Mariners will regret this by mid-season.
This ain’t last year, folks.
legionofms
Nah, keep in mind that Swanson is coming off of a career year. Prior to this last season he was a less than stellar BP arm, once he added that spilt finger he started to have a bit more success, but once hitters start recognizing it a bit better as one of his best pitches his ERA will likely inflate a bit.
Teoscar has a deeper history of success.
Mekias0
I have confidence that Swanson will continue to be a good bullpen guy going forward but his numbers in 2022 were not sustainable. 5% HR/FB rate, 85.2% LOB in particular are going to regress. I am, however, worried that the M’s currently have no one that can dominate lefties. We’ll see what Dipoto does to fix that.
On the other side, Teoscar is really good and an immediate reliable upgrade. This will also give us an extra year to determine what we have in Kelenic and/or figure out if Teoscar is worth giving a long-term deal.
compassrose
Swanson is a good pitcher Seattle had a whole BP that were close. Each had a different favorite pitch or their top was different from each other. We need a LH pitcher or two. In the BP. Would be nice to have a closer too. The hot hand Servias used this year worked pretty well. Except when he brought in Ray to close a game I wish I could forget.
compassrose
Macko spell check again.
Fred Park
After some lengthy consideration, I have to admit that Teoscar may do pretty well.
A lot of this depends on how well he is able to work with our fine young center fielder Julio.
Remember how Junior, then later Mike Cameron and Hendu, made a lot of ordinary corner outfielders look pretty good?
marinersblue96
I don’t think so. While I liked Swanson M’s also get back Sadler. It’s a numbers crunch and Sadler is better than Swanson.
YourDreamGM
I’d much rather have 3 cheap years of the reliever and a prospect and find another corner OF. TOR won this one by a lot. Hernandez has put up great numbers though.
stroh
Really good player, should add some consistent power and RBI potential to Mariners lineup. But probably not more than Mitch Haniger if they don’t re-sign him. So a wash in my opinion. We’ll see what they gave up
A'sfaninUK
He peaked at 27 and has gotten worse every season since. Jays just robbed the M’s.
Selah Rick 2
Did you see the production Seattle was getting in Left and Right field? Hernandez hasn’t had and ops under .770 in 4 years.
CyBieber
Last time he had an OPS less than .770 was as a rookie in Houston in 2016. His WRC+ is still greater than 120. His numbers haven’t fallen off a cliff like A’sfan is implying.
Ben10
We know. Some people are just salty.
Its the Mariners time to shine. This was just a small piece of what I expect to be a busy offseason.
Cincyfan85
Chris Flexen and Jesse Winker I bet.
Cincyfan85
Now I bet it’s Matt Brash and Jesse Winker.
ntorsky
Would’ve thought the DBacks would’ve been an even better match for this trade. Winker or Trammell probably going to the Jays.
fre5hwind
Sheeeesh nice Mariners
LordD99
Bullpen help? Munoz?
LordD99
Nope. Swanson and a prospect.
YourDreamGM
First person I seen who didn’t predict Winkler. There are signs of intelligence on this site.
King Floch
I guess this closes the book on a potential Haniger reunion for the M’s.
Wagner>Cobb
Maybe they bring him back as a DH in hopes that that keeps him healthy.
stroh
I know Julio is the big star now. But as an Astros fan the one bat that I always respected in the Mariners lineup was Haniger when healthy. He can really mash. Teoscar is good but doesn’t have the plate discipline of Haniger.
JoeBrady
As a RS fan, I wholeheartedly approve of Haniger leaving Seattle. Good bounce-back candidate, imho.
King Floch
I agree, and I wouldn’t mind the Orioles rolling the dice on a year of Haniger if we end up trading Hays or Santander for pitching. I suspect he’ll have plenty of suitors as a potential 30 HR bat that won’t require a lengthy commitment.
legionofms
Nah, Winker won’t be back so that still leaves 1 OF spot open.
Doubt Kelenic is going to be in the starting OF, more of a rotational 4th OF’er.
Haniger, Hernandez, J-rod would be a stellar OF.
Ben10
I’d rather have JRod, Teoscar, Yoshida, and Haniger(DH/OF).
Trade:
Winker
Flexen
Gonzales
Their salary relief will create wiggle room to go out and grab a SS, P Sengal, and OF Yoshida.
Ma4170
Is Kyle Lewis not even considered relevant anymore bc of all his injury struggles? As a met fan, always loved his talent, but can’t seem to stay on the field and wonder how Ms fans feel about him?
A-A-Ron
He couldnt even run the bases or do better than jogging out in the field last year. Knee might just be done/ career derailed. Pretty sad
Ben10
Yeah, when KLew was brought back up at the end of last season, he looked awful. We needed bats in the lineup. And he just wasn’t hitting. But what really put the entire situation over the top was that when you watched him run to first base, there was literally zero speed. I’m talking Robbie Cano on a bad day “lolly-gagging.” I don’t think any of us Seattle fans thinks he was doing it on purpose, but you could tell that his knee is wrecked. You can’t count on that coming into next season. Anything from Kyle from here on out will be a blessing. We’re all praying for a full recovery, but not holding our breathes.
Ma4170
Wow that’s sad to hear
letsplaytwo
I like Kyle Lewis but he was unable/unwilling? to play more than two games a week. Then he waited until the last moment before reporting to AAA.
User 3044878754
Maybe the Blue Jays will trade for Francona, the AL MGR of the year
King Floch
lol, are you really still seething about that?
clubber_lang84
Mariners where the second best AL team last post season. This improves the 2022 squad significantly. Still need more pitching to compete with Houston
A'sfaninUK
No, it really doesnt. Swanson was very important, and Teoscar isnt “the big bat” people in this thread are making him out to be.
Spoken like the fan of a team who has never won a title, and therefore doesnt even know what to look for in a title-contender.
bob9988 2
OK, seriously, what is your deal? I’m guessing from your name you are just here trolling the hell out of us. You do nothing but bash this guy and the M’s up and down this thread. Did Hernandez cause you to loose money one time? No he isn’t an all star player every year, but neither is Haniger, Winker nor anyone else anyone has been talking about. He is a good, but not great, reliable hitter who is going to hit HRs and strike out 150 times. We know.
Slothcliff Hokum
Don’t feed the troll.
compassrose
Asfan if you think Swanson was very important to the Ms BP you don’t know baseball. Is he good and helped yes but they had 5 guys that were basically the same. If they could have swapped him for a LH arm he would have been very important. A bat in the OF was more important.
jjd002
They weren’t the second best team in the AL. At best they were the 4th best in the playoffs on the AL side. Anything can happen in a short series.
letsplaytwo
You can never have enough pitching, but the Mariners put 17 zeroes on the board against the Astros in Game 3. If Servais doesn’t pinch run for Eugenio in the ninth inning and doesn’t bring Robbie Ray in to face Yordan in Game 1, it might have been a much different series.
GMoney2850
Hernandez’s value isn’t high. Basically a free-swinging DH w/ a big platoon split. Return will be underwhelming…watch
Edp007
You are right , extremely underwhelming.
A'sfaninUK
Exactly, the Jays wrecked the Mariners on this. Winker isnt any different to Teoscar when it all comes down to it. Teoscar will likely put up the same numbers Winker did when Winker moved from a hitter friendly div to a pitching-friendly one.
Tizzi60
Dude, how come every comment, no matter what team, is negative and condescending? Are you paid to do this? Do you just get your jolly’s talking down/texting down? To other people, it just shows how little of a human being you are!
slimmycito
@tizzi he has mental issues, bpd or schizophrenia I assume. He loses his mind and rants about the warriors and firing Steve Kerr literally every single day. I have no idea why he’s got it stuck in his mind that Winker is Teo. Guy has probably watched Teoscar like 3 times in his life while on a cold streak.
letsplaytwo
I agree! I should send him a bumper sticker, Hide your Mean Streak!
toycannon
Swanson and MacBook leaving. I can live with that. Jerry loves trading relievers.
A'sfaninUK
Jerry loves trading, period. It’s why he has no rings.
marinersblue96
Neither does Beane and DiPoto has been a GM less than half the time. If Beane had any balls he would of left for a real organization a decade ago, but he has employment for life with that pathetic franchise.
JackStrawb
Yeah, what kind of GM has a great relationship with his teenaged daughter and doesn’t move to Boston, rarely seeing her as a result, just because it’s a professional step up?
/s
Edp007
Wow that sucks , Teo for Swanson ?
Getting back a frozen dinner for Teo?
chrcritter
well that’s underwhelming
compassrose
Erik Swanson and prospect Adam Marlo.
dman07
Mariners Embarass The Blue Jays Again!
ARC 2
How they gave up a very good relief pitcher in the deal? Those solid numbers he has had for the last 2 years is not easily replaced.
solaris602
Guessing the next move is SEA dealing Winker, but not to the Jays.
Poppin' Balls
Not thrilled with Toronto’s return at first glance…
Poppin' Balls
After a modest search into both Swanson and Macko, I actually like the return Toronto got here. Hopefully it works out for both clubs.
letsplaytwo
Yep, sounds like a great swap for both clubs.
Mario93
Man…. I don’t know about this. Don’t know what we got back, not sure if I care right now. Teoscar is such a good hitter, such great speed around the bases, wow man. This one really is shocking. Very rare to get such hitting ability while also having the speed tool. Doesn’t steal much bases, but when he gets going trying to go from first to home, or first to third, he can fly.
We lost a lot of ability with this trade … not sure what we got back yet. But without a doubt we’re gonna miss that hitting and running ability. It’s a sad day man… this one hurts. I would’ve moved Gurriel, he lacks power, and also the athleticism that Teoscar brings. I’m shocked man… truly feel hurt right now lol. Wow…
eatonculo
It does free up a spot for Nimmo in free agency or Nootbar from the Cardinals.
letsplaytwo
I feel your pain Marlo. I’m happy as a lark, whatever that means. But chill bro, they will bring in Nimmo or a nice lefty bat to replace Teo. Man, I love this trade. Dipoto da man!!!
thebaseballfanatic
BTV has it 15-8 for the Blue Jays, so their model, at least, really likes both Swanson and Macko.
A'sfaninUK
BTV is just random people and not approved by anyone associated with the game.
iverbure
Hernandez has a trade value of 8.4 and winker has a 2.1 so it is you who doesn’t know ball.
letsplaytwo
A’sfaninUK proves that in just about every post.
iverbure
BTV is random people, not like the not random A’sfaninUK with his superior knowledge on the game lmao.
DarkSide830
BBTV vastly underrates rentals, IMO.
GMoney2850
No they don’t. That’s exactly how MLB GMs value rentals. Have you seen some of the returns for them in recent years?
Ma4170
Problem is they’re usually wrong in the long run bc they assign prospects higher values simply bc of years of control, when the vast majority will never live up to the player they would be traded for. Idk how many hypothetical deals people said they’d never do in the past bc it entailed giving up such renowned superstars as Adell, pache, Urias, Mejia, toussaint, brujan, etc etc etc
Swansons a rp whos had one high value year, and rp are notoriously inconsistent.., could’ve signed someone just as effective and kept Teoscar… the chances Macko turns out to be something significant are so low.
abc123baseball
BTV uses a model that constantly adjusts based on real world activity. So if they are “wrong in the long term” it just means that their model was in need of tweaking at that vague set point in the past that you are alluding to, and has be changed since that time.
It’s not perfect but it is by far the best model we have access to. Real world trades tend to match up well with the model and MLB teams have gone on record saying that they check potential trades in the simulator.
Ma4170
I get it’s good for comparison, but in this case it seems pretty off. They value Teoscar at 8.4 and Macko at 5.4, clearly all based on years of control. Macko is barely a top 10 prospect in their system, and has major control issues anyway. They have Swanson at 10.4, again, years of control. He’s had one good year. Let’s not make it like their trade value analysis is gospel. Teoscar has an OPS+ of 132 last three seasons. For sale of comparison, I’m willing to bet a lot of money Macko never has an ERA+ of 132 over a three year stretch ever in MLB.
JoeBrady
It feels like you want to skip years of control, when that is central to the trade,
Chester Copperpot
Not skip, but temper. After all, what good is 5 years control of a poor player?
User 401527550
Who do the Blue Jays have lined up to replace him on the free agent market? Hard to judge this trade without seeing the next chips to fall.
YourDreamGM
Nim or Ben.
Best Screenname Ever
The Boston Red Sox wholeheartedly approve of this trade. This guy has a career OPS of .999 vs. the Sox including .955 at Fenway. More than happy to see the back of him, especially for a couple of bullpen pieces who won’t move any needles.
A'sfaninUK
Hey you might wanna check out like almost al regular AL East div hitters stats in those little league dimensions the AL East teams play in, they all mash there!
Redsoxx_62
I’d be even happier to see him playing LF for us lol
Four4fore
Look for the next Blue Jay move bringing in a LH hitting outfielder.
Moonlight Graham
That has to be the plan. Personally, I think there are several trade candidates they should be focusing on. But if it’s a free agent they’re after, who would that be? Conforto and Nimmo are the only outfielders who make sense, and then Josh Bell could theoretically be a DH.
(Benintendi is a lefty OF, but he’s not a bug difference maker AND he’s expressed a preference for his midwest living.)
#1WhiteSoxFan
Blue Jays should trade for Gavin Sheets for pitcher or 2B.
legionofms
Definitely OK with trading high on Swanson for some offense. He was great this last season but ultimately his track record is only so-so.
Excited to see what Hernandez brings to the lineup
A'sfaninUK
Teoscar was great in 2020/21 but has been on the downhill back to his pre-2020 norms ever since. He will probably have a .695 OPS next season for Seattle.
letsplaytwo
Teo had an OPS of .828 after the All-Star break with a .511 Slug. But keep posting troll king.
Dustyslambchops23
You either develop your own relievers or you overpay for arms from teams that do
iverbure
Exactly.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Smartest take on the board so far.
Edp007
So this Macko is interesting.
Lots of k’s per IP
Born in Slovakia
Drafted out of High School in Alberta so a Canadian kid as well.
Surprised he’s not a hockey player being Slovakian/Canadian athlete lol
cdouglas24000
I have Macko just outside the top 10 prospects for mariners actually. His near 4.00 Era tells a different story, along with a career minors 1.41 whip. I’m gonna miss Swanson cuz he had a career year in M’s bullpen, but we have the Arms to cover his spot. Teoscar doesn’t miss games (knock on wood) and that’s what we need honestly. Love haniger but Teo had a more proven on the field record the past 5 yrs.
slund24
Macko would have probably in the 15-20 range when new rankings come out.
letsplaytwo
Well hell yeah, Haniger missed about 3-1/2 years of the past five. But I love the guy and hope the M’s are negotiating with him on a super-loaded incentive contract. He wants to stay. There is still room for both of them.
Mario93
My heart hurts man ….. who the hell is “swanson” and “macko”?…. My god. My initial reaction is to say fire Atkins…..
Edp007
Trust me bro , Shatkins know more about baseball and specifically the Jays ,than anyone on this thread. Disregard all opinions here and trust the process.
Watch it unfold
User 3044878754
Shapiro has NEVER won nor has Atkins
A'sfaninUK
Your “heart hurts” for a player who never won you a title? Then raise your standards, stop being a loser.
Mario93
Said the Athletics fan
King Floch
I think Teo stole his girlfriend or something lol.
KamKid
Do you only like people who are winners? I’d rather watch the Jays play and come up short with Teo than watch them win a WS without him. I can be cold and calculated when thinking about baseball. But Teo represents the pure emotional joy that I actually tune in to watch. It is after all supposed to be an entertainment product.
letsplaytwo
Losers are people who get a thrill out of abusing other human beings. Grow up and show some respect.
JoeBrady
Just for discussion sake, if you don’t know who “swanson” is, how do you know it is a bad trade?
Mario93
I just checked his highlights…… we got robbed. Fastball, splitter guy, his fastball so far was consistently at 94mph. This move is what gets Atkins fired.
Dustyslambchops23
Mario, deep breathes.
Clearly Atkins has a grander vision for RF (or CF) Teo was an expiring contract and probably not a long term fit for the team. I don’t love the return but trading Teo was a likely scenario
Mario93
@Dusty this one hurts .. it’s unfortunate as hell.
Dustyslambchops23
teo did not mature in to a leader on the team. He consistently had effort issues and did not set a good example to the young kids on the team.
I do like him but I get not wanting to give him 120 million over the next 6 years.
JoeBrady
But what was his ERA/FIP? K/W?
letsplaytwo
Relax bro, it’s a good trade right now for both clubs. Help is on the way. Nimmo or a nice lefty bat. Go M’s!!!
stroh
Swanson is a really good reliever. Teoscar has only 1 year left on his contract so a fair deal.
30 Parks
Great addition for Seattle.
Rsox
Swanson for Hernandez seems like the Jays undersold
letsplaytwo
Wait and see. Macko is a strikeout machine thus far. Could be pretty down the road. Go M’s!
User 3044878754
This is why Mark Shapiro has NEVER won a ring!
Cleveland fans well remember he traded power hitting Brian Giles for situational reliever Ricardo Rincon.
Simply foolish trading power hitters for less than certain gold.
jaysfan77
It was rumoured that Teoscar fell out of favour in the clubhouse/management. One year left, best they got a lights out reliever under control now than letting his value diminish more, or letting him walk. I would think another trade is coming, my guess Alejandro Kirk for another outfielder and maybe another reliever with no service time and big upside.
bighiggy
What about tyler oneill and Jordan hicks for kirk?
Four4fore
Flaherty for Kirk who says no?
DarkSide830
Toronto never picks up the phone
junior25
Why?
The Jays need a LH bat, not a sub par Oneill
Jays would never pick up the phone on this one
usafcop
O’Neill is anything but subpar….go watch golf….
Best Screenname Ever
I’d go lightly around any ‘clubhouse’ rumors that emerge right when someone is traded. More likely scenario is that he tried to hold Toronto to a different standard for a contract renewal, like their DH did a few years back when he wanted 9 figures from Toronto before settling for 60MM from Cleveland. Players do that with Toronto because it’s historically been a destination where players don’t want to go.
When evaluating trades you have to remember that there’s a short list of players who don’t already have Toronto on their ‘no-trade’ list.
MarkoRock68
Actually you are confusing Bautista and Edwin. Jose wanted the 9 figures while Edwin was looking for a little more then what he signed for with Cleveland. The Jays just moved on from him super fast and Edwin was left with taking the offer from Cleveland.
JoeBrady
Actually you are confusing Bautista and Edwin.
==============================
What an awful, awful job Bautista did with that contract. Given his age and declining skills, TO offered him probably twice what he was worth, maybe more. And Bautista’s response was that he wasn’t going to give TO another home town discount. I’m not sure of the TO offer, but the SI article I read says he wanted more than $150M/5. The article was dated 2/25/16, and he still had one year left on his current contract. Meaning he wanted at least $150M thru age 41 or higher.
The BJs gave him one more ill-advised year, and then he basically disappeared.
MarkoRock68
The Jays dodged a bullet for sure with Bautista. He was looing for 5/150 from what I read at the time from multiple sources . He signed for 1@18m. Prime example of why not to sign mid 30s bats to long term contracts over more then a couple years MAX.
iverbure
And the fans wanted Atkins and Shapiro’s heads. Turned out they avoided those albatross contracts and with Donaldson too. Their window was closed with that team. It’s what to the good foundation of this team without tanking for 5 years.
letsplaytwo
I don’t think the Jays are looking for a play on service time and huge upside. A free agent lefty bat is likely in the works, or a trade for same. Too many righty bats is what I’ve been reading. Go M’s!
Foxxfire
Better late than never. Erik Swanson is exactly what this team needs. Exactly. Teoscar is on his last year and wasn’t getting extended. I like this for Swanson alone. Hopefully more pleasant.. and not unpleasant.. surprises here. Interested in what their plan to replace Teoscar is. ~cough~ Soto ~cough~. i can wsih,
jaysfan77
Rumour was he fell out of favour in the clubhouse/ management. Good they got a stud reliever with 3 years of arb control and a high upside near ready pitching prospect.
I suspect Kirk will be traded for an outfielder and likely another high upside reliever with arb control
TheTexasBlueJay
Not to mention that pitching prospect is ranked No. 8 for the Mariners, according to MLB Pipeline, as well as their best LHP prospect.
slund24
Not really near ready. He’s a starting pitcher that has thrown less than 100 total professional innings and only pitched 8 games at A+ ball.
YourDreamGM
Not even near to being near ready.
User 2079935927
Mariner fans are MLB’S most delusional fans.
GMoney2850
Blue Jay fans are pretty delusional too.
Imagine throwing a fit about trading a rental DH owed 14 M. Couldn’t be me
letsplaytwo
How so Professor Leach? What if said Mariners fan has been following baseball since 1959 and loves three MLB teams. What would your comment be on such a person , Mr. Professor sir?
TheTexasBlueJay
I don’t know about you guys, but I love this trade for both teams!!! Seattle gets another solid hitter to their core, and the Jays got a reliever that’s coming off his best year yet in Erik Swanson l, and the Mariners’ best left-handed pitching prospect (No. 8 on MLB Pipeline) in Adam Macko. Not to mention that the Jays are also freeing up cap space in the process. In the end, I think nobody got fleeced in this trade and it turned out rather well for both of them.
YourDreamGM
What would a team pay for 3 years of Swanson? What would Hernandez get a year and then subtract 14 million. Someone got fleeced.
JoeBrady
That’s a good way of viewing it. Maybe $27M/3 v Teo at maybe ($25M – $14M) or $11M.
letsplaytwo
Exactly!!! Tell ’em Tex Blue Jay!
iverbure
There is no cap space in baseball.
SODOMOJO
There has to be more going to Toronto….right?
I mean. We love Swanny. His split/high fastball combo is among the best in baseball. But Teoscar is a 5 tool player in the prime of his career….
I don’t even know who the kid is. Maybe he has a special pitch or unique ability they are looking at?
GMoney2850
5-tool player? Lmao
SODOMOJO
Which tool does he not have? I am anxiously awaiting your response.
Dustyslambchops23
Fielding
riffraff
Garden weasel … but to be fair a lot of people don’t have that tool
SODOMOJO
Guys, if you are within plus or minus 5 you can field. Also, have you seen his arm? You have to TRY to argue that he’s not a 5 tool player. I mean, seriously. Just cause he’s not 30-30 and winning gold gloves. He is an excellent all around player. That’s all I’m saying.
GarryHarris
Which tools does he have?
Chester Copperpot
You are pretty liberal with that 5-tool player label.
Moose1511
5 tool player you must be joking. Teoscar hit .267 last year and is a career .262 hitter. Doesn’t check the contact box very well. He’s an awful defender (-0.8 WAR) according to baseball reference last year (-4.3 WAR) for his career. Let’s talk about speed now -1 runs from base running last year -3 for his career. Power yeah he hit 25 home runs last year I’ll give him that one. Throwing he’s got an above average arm. So 2/5 definitely not a 5 tool player good try tho.
SODOMOJO
What kind of cherry picking garbage argument is that? Not an English major are ya? Two of the last 3 seasons he’s hit .290 plus and has continuously improved in the field to the point where he is now absolutely a competent, “good” fielder. He has always had an arm. He has always been able to run. He stole 12 last year!!! That’s above average. Are you aware of that?
Please. PROVE that Teoscar is not a 5 tool
Player. You can’t. It’s a broad, correct statement. You have failed as a troll and you would be best served on Reddit. Real baseball fans will trash your poor ability to articulate here on mlbtraderumors
Dustyslambchops23
Since 2018 he ranks 16 (out of 25) in RF (min 2000 innings) in defensive runs saved (-2)
When you expand to OF during that same time period and include his work in CF and LF he is ranked 86th in that same timeframe with -15 runs saved
SODOMOJO
@Dusty, those are good numbers that I can’t argue. I will say however that he is better now at fielding than he ever was, and so going back to what was essentially his rookie season is a bit unfair; especially considering his talent, arm and speed always pointed to him developing into a competent corner outfielder with a hose. And in my that’s exactly what he is.
But numbers are numbers and that’s how you respond to a statement you disagree with
Dustyslambchops23
He was a rookie in 2016, I only went back to 2018.
He has improved slightly but not meaningfully, he’s 30 it’s not likely he will improve beyond those numbers.
assuming you are an M’s fan, this is still a great trade regardless if he is a bit of a defensive liability
SODOMOJO
That’s why I said ESSENTIALLY his rookie season; because 2018 is the first season he got enough at bats (and thus, a good amount of major league defensive reps) to qualify for any type of award. I think he scraped together 200 abs in a couple cups of coffee in ‘16-17. I remember when the Astros called him up, he was highly touted and highly impressive back then.
Ben10
Regardless as to whether or not Teoscar is or isn’t a 5 tool player, I say both teams won this deal.
letsplaytwo
Thanks Moose, that is very encouraging. So maybe Dipoto is going to spring this on Teo, that “hey, I’ve extended Haniger, and you’re going to be our DH in 2023. Let it be so!!!
MaNameIsYeffff
Teo’s 30 and in his last year of control while Swanson doesn’t hit FA till 2026. They also add the Mariners #10 prospect according to FG’s 2022 rankings who should land in the our top 10. As a Jays fan ya it hurts to lose Hernandez but looking at the glass half full it’s not a bad deal for us in the long run.
letsplaytwo
I’m a Teo and M’s fan, but Teo is 30 and might be a bit past his prime. But I couldn’t be happier about this trade. Even if we only have him for one year. I’m good with that.
JoeBrady
I don’t hate this for Seattle, but I like it a fair bit for TO.
Their BP has struggled the past two years, and Swanson looks like a very nice piece, with three years of control.
In addition, I think everyone realized that Springer in CF isn’t working. By moving Teo (and he’s always on my roto radar), this opens up RF for Springer, which opens up CF for Nimmo. Nimmo is projected for $22M, and Teo is projected at $15M. So for an extra $7M, you upgrade your OF, get a better fit in the OF, and bring in a very good RP.
slimmycito
This is extremely disappointing as a Jays fan. A gut shot to the fans from Shatkins. Even if they’re just clearing out salary for a bigger move this really hurts my heart. We will miss you Teo.
Foxxfire
i.imgur.com/iZL7p3V.png
Foxxfire
Jays fans. Complain about Teo’s seeming lack of discipline and mental lapses all year saying this team needs an attitude change while constantly whining (given, the deadline gave this legitimacy) not having a high leverage whiff reliever.
Swanson has only had one great year, whihc is a risk, yes, but also given the price, this is an outstanding trade for the Jays. If Swanson can manage to keep up the same production, he’s edwin diaz, emmanuel clase level. Do any of you realize that? We NEEDED this arm, and we need one more. And a Starter. And another start. And..
slimmycito
Man I’ve watched baseball since I was a small child, even if you’re new to the game it’s not hard to see that relievers are the most volatile, hit or miss guys in the sport. My reaction is more an emotional one. I really liked Teo l, am I not allowed to be sad that they traded him for a reliever and a prospect? You ever heard of TINSTAAPP?
Foxxfire
I liked Teo too but I was also so desperate for a 101mph reliever with a 0.9 WHIP and an 11 k/9 i was willing to give up TIedemann for it. He’d need to be more proven, but yes, you’re right, RP is volatile. Which is why it physically pained me to start to be willing to give up a huge amount for someone like Clase. I even had Moreno in a theoretical Clase deal, which is completely anti-my-value-system with volatile RP’s.
The paradigm has shifted, these RP’s are becoming worth taking major risks for since having two guys that have the kind of year Swanson has can win you a world series alone.
Giving up Teo who we weren’t resigning, allowing a movement of Springer and his hurt body to a corner OF so he doesn’t hog DH (so Kirk can be there) is one of the many layers I like in this deal. Don’t underestimate the freed up payroll either. It also makes it clear another outfielder is coming. And hallelujah, it’s not going to be -1dWAR Tapia.
YourDreamGM
Relievers aren’t reliable but they are expensive. Probably going to bring in a good OF.
letsplaytwo
Hey Foxxfire, not quite bro! If Swanson was of Diaz and Clase caliber, I think he would have been brought in to face Yordan, instead of Robbie Ray.
Touch 'em all Joe
Wowza. Loved watching Teo, at times the opposing team simply could not pitch to him. You gotta figure there is a big follow-up to come from the Jays’ FO.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Feels like a light haul for Teoscar
seamaholic 2
No, not at all. Teoscar has only one year of control left, and can only (and just barely) play corner OF. That’s not a ton of value. Jays did very well. Macko is a legit SP prospect and Swanson will slot right into the set-up role in Toronto. And they can easily find another corner guy with power. Jays just got better.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Going to have to disagree that Teoscar is “easily” replaceable. Swanson had a lights out year, I’ll give him that. But that’s one season at age 28 in a notoriously inconsistent position. Swanson is easier to replace than Teoscar. And the kid is a flier. He hasn’t made it out of A ball yet and has some serious control issues.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
If they wanted a solid reliever for high leverage innings they could of just signed Andrew Chafin
Ben10
Swanny is a heckuva lot cheaper.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Chafin is cheaper than what it would cost to replace Teoscar on the open market.
Ben10
Toronto’s gonna need every cent they can get if they hope to land Nimmo.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
You really aren’t seeing what I am saying. Do the math. Teoscar is making $10.6 million this year. MLBTR has Chafin projected at a $9 million salary. That together is $19.6 million.
MLBTR has Nimmo projected at $22 million per year. Swanson is making $700k this year.
Teoscar + Chafin is cheaper than Nimmo + Swanson. With that cost savings, the Jays could add another arm in the bullpen.
Ben10
I thought the Jays wanted to get more left handed hitters in the lineup, as well as move Springer over to RF?
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Sure, but doesn’t mean that this trade is smart.
Nimmo had a good year last year but that was only his second time in his career to play over 100 games in a season. I can’t believe teams are entertaining on giving him a $100+ million. His defensive metrics aren’t very impressive and at 29 are only going to get worse.
I would get Benintendi over Nimmo any day and he will cost half as much.
Ben10
I see you’re point. I guess Toronto just got tires of having their bullpen shelled and decided to deal from an area of strength. They must be high on both guys. Even though Baseball value charts have this as an equal swap across the board.
To be fair, if I was Toronto, I would have held out for something better myself. But don’t discredit Swanny. Kid can shut the door in big moments.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
I think he had an exceptionally strong year. I won’t disregard that. But I give pause to bullpen breakouts. Bullpen guys are so up and down.
I think a lot of the people on this message board are disregarding Teo’s value.
letsplaytwo
Agreed. So did Seattle – Go M’s!!!
acell10
I suspect this might be a precursor to a Nimmo signing who’s better defensively and probably close to Hernandez equal at the plate.
Best Screenname Ever
This is sad to watch. Trade your farm system for a pitcher who immediately turns into the worst starting pitcher in the league, then start trading your hitting for bullpen help to bail him out. If I were Toronto’s GM, I would consider it likely I’m on my way out after this next year. Last year I was thinking the Sox trade Nicky Pivetta for a Jays minor league catcher, not realizing that if you hold on you can sell high on a reliever and get Hernandez.
YourDreamGM
What future all star prospects did they trade away?
pete s
so you’re saying KC could’ve had Teoscar for Barlow and either Lacy or Kowar?
jdgoat
Ya, that might be too much given up by KC though. I don’t think they’d have much interest though since Teo is on his last year of control.
bucsfan0004
Reading through these comments…. feels like Mariners talk radio. Jays need pitching, both starting and relieving. How about sending the Jays that monster who throws 101mph out of the bullpen?
letsplaytwo
Uh………………………because bucsfan, Munoz is a Monster out of the bullpen who throws up to 103mph and strikes out the world.
User 3044878754
This clears the decks for the impending
Mitch Haniger trade to Cleveland for Myles Straw and James Karinchak
stroh
Haniger is a free agent. Whomever signs him will get a truly good hitter and solid outfielder.
marinersblue96
Haniger is ok in the field. He has regressed the last few years. Very good arm but slow.
Still would love to have him back in Seattle, but the M’s really need to add LH bat.
King Floch
How will Seattle trade a free agent?
User 3044878754
They will receive Francona, the manager of the year , in the deal
King Floch
You’re so mad lol.
TennVol
The entire article talks about Teoscar, his stats, his impact, his fielding. Nothing about the return from Seattle. Goes to show you what they think of the return they got for him.
seamaholic 2
It’s an excellent return, actually. Teoscar is in his last year of control and at 30 years old is best used as a DH. One year of good power production with high K’s and no defensive value isn’t that big an asset. They got an excellent late inning reliever (one of the best non-closers in the AL last year) with three years of control, and an interesting very young starter who was a top ten prospect on Seattle’s list. This is an A level trade for the Jays.
Foxxfire
This is the best trade they’ve made in years. I liked the pop and bass deal as well, but that felt more like offseason deal than during, though the jays did get bass. But Swanson is what they needed and even given RP volatility and lack of track record, ignoring the prospect, this trade makes a TON of sense especially if we get Nimmo.. Springer to corner, gurriel in other corner, nimmo in CF. Money used to sign Nimmo partially gained from losing salary, we gain hugely in OF D which we needed badly, we added a high leverage reliever whihc we needed badly, and we still have Moreno and TIedemann to dangle for a bona fide #2 type SP. with control.
User 3044878754
Thanks Mrs Shapiro
slund24
Swanson was very good last year but I wouldnt go as far as saying one of the best relievers in AL. He was usually a 6th-7th inning arm for Seattle and probably 4 or 5th best in their pen. With all the innings the bullpen threw in the postseason, it took the 13th inning of their 5th game of the playoffs before he saw any action. Seattle apparently liked Munoz, Sewald, Brash, Murphee, and Festa more in those high leverage situations.,
letsplaytwo
Yeah, Swanson’s splitter might have played nicely in Game 1 in the ninth inning against the great Cuban slugger, Yordan Alvarez. Instead, he brings in Robbie Ray who was ripped to shreds all year by the astros to the tune of an ERA north of 10!!!
Steve Adams
Or, it read “more to come,” as the Seattle return portion (which has obviously since been added) was still in the works.
I think it’s a sensible trade for both teams.
Jaysfan1981
And now it looks like quite an in depth write up on all 3 players involved.
Hope this works out for Toronto
Busterking
A sign that the circus in the dugout might be over with? Lets hope.
Dustyslambchops23
“Trade your farm” equals 2 prospects, both whom have regressed in prospect status since the trade.
I don’t love this move either but you’re So dramatic.
riffraff
Would the Jays be interested in Ian Happ? Happ and a reliever with some control for Kirk?
YourDreamGM
Think they would.
TennVol
The Jays have cleared almost $21M in payroll the last 24 hours. My guess is them signing or trading for a prominent LHH OF. Nimmo? Or someone else?
YourDreamGM
Free agent. Who would they be trading for that cost 21 million?
Jaysfan1981
Good luck Teo. Thanks for the time here
Welcome to Swanson and Mako.
Not gonna lie, like this trade alot considering Teo and probably Gurriel JR aren’t in teams plans anymore
Nimmo signing incoming? Reynolds or Marte trade incoming?
MoneyBallJustWorks
Way to sell low Atkins. this makes ZERO sense. the Jays do need an RP like Swanson, but could have got that in FA.
For those saying he has one year left and they need to pay Bo/Vlad… yes they do, but likely could have offered TH a QO if he had even a similar season to last year that he would decline because he could get a multi year deal and the competitive balance pick would have likely have been as valuable as this return.
This is just a complete fail, and with a team with OF depth issues and an injured CF, best to trade your next best guy???
Foxxfire
Have you, or seemingly 90% of Jays fans, watched a Toronto Blue Jays baseball game? Financial and contractual issues aside (which both heavily favor the jays), Swanson is what every single Jays fan has been dying to have, and were so mad we didn’t get at the deadline.
I have no intention of paying Bo 300 million to have one hot offensive month and have -20 runs allowed against average. Moreno and Bo in a package for Alcantara would be my dream type of deal. Because that’s what we need.
Do you realize Clase was valued at 55 surplus value, and Moreno was 61? Jays fans seriously mystify me. I’m rather embarassed to be one.
Digdugler
Where is the offense going to come from with Teoscar and Bo gone in your scenario?
Foxxfire
a CF signing (Nimmo), or trade which would eat from the mentioned trade capital. Bo and Moreno will never go in the same deal, because baseball doesn’t like being bold, but how much do we really lose moving Espinal to SS full time? he’s like 2.5 wins better defensively than Bo. Biggio is underrated at 2b. Correa and Turner are also out there.
This team is significantly better now than it was yesterday. This deal would not be made without some corner OF plan.
Digdugler
But if you move Bo to 2B he is likely 5 or 6 WAR at 2B (WAR is kind of a broken stat) If they are signing Correa or Turner I am all for trading Bo but they wont so its moot. Could just move Bo to 2B and Espinal temporarily to SS and the team will be better.
Foxxfire
The problem with this logic is you’re forgetting that we”d be getting back someone like Alcantara (with Moreno or tiedemann too).
Don’t you think the loss of WAR at SS and 2B (which is surprisingly small) even without a FA replacement at SS is worth getting another Manoah>
Mario93
Every jays fan didn’t want to trade one of their best players for a reliever who’s had 1 great year. All the other years he’s been at best “serviceable”… You don’t trade a silver slugger, an all star, who’s also a great base runner, brings great value on offense, again, for a reliever who’s been “elite” for 1 season. This was a salary dump, and they’re hoping swanson repeats last season. Which is far from a guarantee! You don’t use one of your best players as a salary dump because they’ve already mismanaged the payroll, by paying guys like Ryu and Kikuchi 30 million combined next year. Please … you don’t right your wrongs by trading away a top 3-4 player on your offense.
This isn’t what jays fans “wanted”… you trade a prospect or two to get a reliever, not a middle of the order bat. “Oh well they had to trade him cause of payroll”, yeah, then don’t sign Ryu and kikuchi and pay them 30 million combined next year for those guys to throw away games.
Foxxfire
Barrierra has more value than Hernandez.. The Zimmer for Soto deal you want “Shatkins” to make isn’t coming.
I want to note that I wanted Atkins and Schneider fired after the playoff loss which was unbelievably poorly managed and had a roster with Kikuchi on it and not Zimmer, for speed and d late.
But I know a good deal when I see one. You claim that Swanson has only had one good year, but we only have Teo for one -more- year. This also clearly opens a spot for someone who can put up just as much if not more value than Teoscar.
Teoscar’s smile is what I will miss most. I thought we’d have to give up more for even just one year of that dominance.
Mario93
Other then 99% of jays fan, I’m actually a fan of zimmer. His defense and speed is elite. His defense is so good, he brings real value imo. I disagree with you though. Teo has a track record of being a very good hitter, being a very good base runner. Again, 1 year of dominance for a reliever isn’t worth a middle of the order bat with a real track record. I would’ve let teo play out the year and let him walk in free agency if this is what we get back for him.
Jays have a chance every season with that great offense, trade deadline they could’ve added that reliever or two when they would’ve been in contention, from their prospect pool.
They might sign Nimmo now? Okay.. but it would’ve been nice to have both him and Teoscar, and probably move the light hitting Gurriel instead.
Swanson era could could go back up to the 3’s or 4’s. and in that case we got a serviceable reliever. Not an elite one. Jays better know what they’re getting with Swanson or I don’t see how this makes us any closer to World Series contention.
Foxxfire
I thought Zimmer was made for late and close playoff games, which is why I was so mystified the roster included Kikuchi (and say, Moreno) but not Zimmer. What the hell was the thought there? Why keep Zimmer around all year just to not use him when he has value? I lost a lot of faith in management this year.
Our outfield defense is a problem. Springer is injured and all three OF spots had pretty bad dWAR. Moving Springer to a corner OF allows the DH spot to open more for Kirk. There is value in that alone. Next, we free up Teoscar’s salary to get that LH OF bat we seem clearly primed to acquire. We improve outfield defense and get a desperately needed high leverage reliever while sacrificing someone we’d only have for one year and may be superceded anyways by an OF signing. Teo was going in any LH OF bat deal, and I think we both agree we need a real LH bat.
The entire year the media bashed this team for a lack of swing and miss that all the other teams seemed to have. I think this deal will turn out really nicely.
Mario93
I hope you’re right man. What do you think about Gurriel, what happens with him next. You think they’d move him as well? Or does he get to stay? He’s a better defender then Teo I guess, but he lacks the speed Teo has. Teo definitely lacked effort in the outfield.. What happens with Gurriel? Great throwing arm in the outfield, but other then that, doesn’t offer much value in the outfield either imo.
Mario93
Isn’t Gurriel going into his last arb year? Or he has one more after the season coming up? If this is his last arb year, what do you think happens with him?
Foxxfire
I don’t think Gurriel is staying either (as in extended) but I think his value might be undervalued in comparison to Teo’s so I don’t mind giving up Teo instead..
I feel like there are a lot of layers to this deal that make it very attractive to me. The DH spot opening with a possible Springer move to corner OF giving Kirk more valuable PA’s at DH,, the deal indicating we could finally get that LH bat… and we could do it taking some of Teo’s salary AND not giving up our big gun prospects, saving them for a real prize.
Gurriel basically has no value and like Pearson I don’t see a lot of value in trading him, unless we can get another Swanson of course. I think he could win a batting title, but his power has unfortunately fallen off a cliff
KamKid
Mario, if this is purely a salary dump, it’s one that came about because of a change of heart on ownership’s side. If they knew they didn’t have the budget to keep adding to this group, they kind of hurtled themselves toward this scenario. A team that has financial might takes a 3 year risk on a Kikuchi type. Not one that has tight financial parameters. On a lesser note, taking on a $7m guarantee for Merrifield when you already have a combination of other players that are cheaper and do anything he can makes no sense in that situation. Neither does adding 2 $100m+ contracts to age side by side with Springer just last offseason. Adding Gausman, sure. Signing an extension with Berrios where the new money starts taking effect this season without knowing what kind of budget ownership is willing to support? I don’t think so. I’ve been in support of this front office, but if they knew their long term budget projections and ran aground like this, I’ll buy myself a pitchfork and join the fire Shatkins mob.
Mario93
@KamKid really well said … I agree.
MoneyBallJustWorks
the Jays have been dying to get a pitcher off what may be his career year and trade an OF after a down, but still good ,season?
MarkoRock68
MoneyBall – Have you not been paying attention to what high end relievers have been signing for . Even if available a high end reliever with Elite upside would have cost 3@10 per at least . So in effect the Jays get that plus save 14 million from Teo.
BuJoBi
@Marko
You one of the good ones.
BuJoBi
“Could have got that in free agency” sure at 10 million a year are u paying attention to the market? We saved 20 million in 24 hours to allocate the funds elsewhere. For either a elite sp 25-40 mil per year. A new cf 20-30 mil a year plus anything else we need. Also what elite reliever is available on the Market that had better numbers then Swanson last year?
junior25
Now go sign Benitendi or trade from C surplus to Cubs for Happ
Moose1511
Not an English major? No I did not major in English you got me there. I’m gonna take a guess here and say that you didn’t major in English either. Even if you did I’m not sure what that has to do with anything I said. Good fielder lol I’m literally telling you his stats as an outfielder produced a negative WAR for his career. Negative WAR every year of his career except for the year he played 1 game. That’s prove right there what do you not understand by that. Contact ok cool he hit .290 in 2 of the last 3 years still a .262 average for his career. -1 base running runs last year so no he is not a good base runner. Not really sure what I’m supposed to take away from giving you facts and you saying that they’re wrong.
SODOMOJO
^^^our comments up there mate. But don’t worry, I got your back. You shouldn’t have come at me with the lol. What I said, you can disagree with it based on your 3 stats. That’s your prerogative. You chose to be a dooche by dropping my comment with the lol instead of being a decent person, competent poster and reasonably disagreeing with me. Instead you went the lol route, on a comment that you cannot prove to be untrue. You are trying to be a dooche and it worked. I’m trying to make you look silly and it worked. Teoscar is a 5 tool player at 30 years old. I stand by my comment. Your 3 stats out of the man’s entire career of great numbers don’t chip away whatsoever, neither does your lol
Moose1511
Teoscar is literally not a 5 tool player. Get that through your head. Not sure what other stats you need to see here but obviously these facts aren’t working for you. Yes he’s a better defender than he used to be but he’s still not good. His batting average dropped from .296 to .267 so that contact tool isn’t looking great. Man just take the L and stop commenting you’ve been proven wrong by at least 3 people just in our comments. There’s also multiple other people that have commented on the post saying the same thing that at least one of the 5 tools he doesn’t have.
houkenflouken
Y’all are both unbearable
SODOMOJO
Thank god we have you put us in our place, Karen
“Unbearable.” Lol. Like a 70 year old rich woman complaining about the flavor of her water
Moose1511
At least we can agree on something haha
msqboxer
This has to be a precursor to a much larger deal or wiggle room to sign one of their young core early. Hernandez may have negative dWar but like any player like that you put them around a future perennial gold glove CFer and they look better.
aTouchOfSarcasm
If you haven’t seen Swanson pitch, look him up. Dude has nasty stuff.
Dustyslambchops23
Just don’t look past his 2022 numbers lol
msqboxer
St. Louis ESPN Cardinals discussion is all over this trade thinking that they will acquire one of the Blue Jays catchers.
Win Cor
Cardinals better execute this deal by the end of Close of Business today.
Best Screenname Ever
Hate to be pedantic mate, but ‘close of business’ and ‘end of business’ are the same thing.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
The Mariners just robbed Toronto. I wonder why Billy Eppler couldn’t of gotten Hernandez to play DH with that package. Terrible GM
Digdugler
Teoscar makes $14M and is expiring, Rogers (Jays owner) is cheap. He would make a great DH though.
Dustyslambchops23
Jays will be top 10 in payroll next year. Calm. Down, this wasn’t a financial move
cr4
Man they didn’t give up anything Toronto gotta have another move in the works because this looks idiotic
BuJoBi
Well we did just lose 3 outfielders in 24 hours so u would think common sense says another move is coming
Win Cor
Jansen or Kirk better be in a Cardinal uniform by the end of the day.
Jaysfan1981
What are the Cards offering?
Digdugler
Nootblaan
DefensiveIndifference
For real though. Let’s go. All I want for my bday is a Jay’s catcher.
big tee
All I can picture are the comments I’m about to read on the Rogers page…the stupidity is really strong with the come lately jays fans
Digdugler
Lots of casuals (People that think Tapia is good), this deal is fair for both parties on paper, but we have to see what the OF looks like come opening day before we can look at it big picture for the Jays.
Tridenthope
Well next 2 hitters Seattle get better be LH bats. That lineup has 2 in Cal and Crawford. That isn’t going to cut it
RGR
The Jays need, in any order, LH hitters, SPs and LH relievers!!! As usual Atkins has to take 4 steps backwards in hopes that he can find a path forward
MarkoRock68
Couple of thoughts on this trade.
1- From all reports it seemed unlikely the Jays would extend Teo ( he is probably looking for 5-6 yrs @ $20 per min )
2-While a great bat there are aspects to his game that really bothered me this year, his streakiness, his lack of hustle at times combined with mental lapses., I really started to think he might be a bad influence on some of the younger guys.
3- This likely opens up adding a LH outfield via FA or Trade that can spend some time at center and let Springer spend more games in right.
4-If we kept Teo and QA him the comp pick we received would likely not be any better then the pitching prospect they got back.
5-With the crazy high prices on elite RP being set this year acquiring anyone with elite upside WITH control was not going to be cheap. A guy like this would easily have cost 3@10 =30 million + 14 saving on Teo that is 44 million in savings. Teo in no world has $44 million in surplus value for 1 Year.
I am totally ok with this trade now IF the Jays go out and get a LH OF who can spend at least some time in center.
crshbng
The jays dealt from a strength (offense) to adress weaknesses (bullpen, pitching prospect depth). Getting 3 yrs of a pitcher who had a decent 21 and a lockdown 22, plus seattles #7 prospect, for 1 year of teo, unless they extend him, seems like a decent deal. Its clear he wasn’t in the jays plans long term, so better trade now, and get something back. Will he interesting to see who the target to fill the outfield out with now.
BuJoBi
Most of these comments are not taking into consideration the asking price on late inning relievers, Montero just got 3 years at 39 million one year after being released by Seattle, he had one great season and got 13 million a year everyone!! everyone saying Swanson has had one year of success. That’s all you need for a reliever nowadays, get them while they pitching well. His peripherals are great, so you take a chance.
Overall it’s a good trade, we needed to move out some of the older players and bring in fresh blood. We will use the money from teo leaving to add a LH bat, which we need desperately. Losing Teo is hard but it had to happen. We saved money to use it elsewhere. Where was Teo gonna play next year if Springer moves to RF? Trade Gurriel? He ain’t worth much coming off of last year.
All these lazyboy gms acting like they know the Markey is jokes. Teo had a bad year and will need to be re-signed after 2023, we got a elite reliever for 3 seasons and a prospect with good numbers, that’s a good deal.
YourDreamGM
A for TOR. 3 years of that caliber of a reliever is worth more than 1 year of a corner OF of his skill set. They can now use the savings to get that lefty bat.
D for Seattle. I like the bat but cash value wise they lost. Even gave up a interesting arm. Feeling generous so no F. They didn’t give up a elite prospect at least and could get a comp pick.
nosake
I’m gonna miss Teo. I’ll never see him again because I hate the Mariners.
coldbeer
He was great 2 years ago, he was decent last year. He isn’t worth $14mil.
And let’s be real they need to shake up the clubhouse and bring in a more professional culture. Merrifield and Chapman and Gausman and JBJ all are great examples.
I wouldn’t be mad if Bo was traded for a package that includes a young starter and a lefty bat.
Nothing against Teo or Bo personally, seem like nice enough guys, but they’re parts of a bigger concern: too many of the same bonehead mistakes.
Vlad just won a gold glove 2 years after being called out for his body and fielding. Teo and Bo are content with hitting and that’s not good enough. And Vlad deserves whatever he wants to stay long term!
Like this move…and awaiting more big trades and/or signings!
jimmertee
Good article Steve. Evaluating this deal longterm is all about Macko’s shoulder. Macko has a chance to be a very special starting pitcher and those types of prospects don’t come chaep.
Swanson won’t repeat his career year last year, but the Jays needed more swing and miss in the bullpen. Swanson be okay, lights out sometimes and hammered by homers in the Rogers Center at other times.
A week or so ago I gave my thoughts on the Jays in these pages and on various social media and sports pages.. “The Jays need to trade Hernandez now because he is a problem in the clubhouse, They need an elite starter and two swing and miss relievers in the bullpen.”
I applaud Atkins and Shapiro for trading Hernandez for pitching. It was the correct thing to do. They took a big risk trading for Macko though. I might have shopped more and bundled Hernandez with more Jays prospects to get an established higher-end starter.
By the way, Berrios will likely come back as a good #3 in the rotation as he gets his sinker back, but it might take a while (another year).
Mario93, I agree that it sucks to be a Jays fan with Shapiro and Atkins running the show. As I said in 2015, the Jays will never win with Shapiro as President of Baseball operations. He is a business guy only. He is a business and renovations genius. And Atkins can’t scout, he throws darts at the wall. I didn’t want Ed Rogers to resign either of them to 2nd contract term and said so [to him]..
Mario93
jimmertee agree. We probably never will win a World Series with these buffoons leading the way. Jays fans think acquiring one lefty bat in a lineup made up of 9 is going to make us World Series champions. They also think acquiring a reliever coming off his only successful season will solve the whole entire bullpen issues of not being able to strike anybody out.
We need another reliever to me. A flame thrower, in hopes of having 3 elite ones (if this swanson guy actually turns out to be good, which I have no idea). And we might as well trade Gurriel as well, and bring in a couple lefties to play the outfield. Actually try to balance out that lineup appropriately.
Notice how Atkins doesn’t ever really solve a problem, he just puts a bandage on it.. We need lefty bats, in a lineup of 9, he might get us one.. We need real strikeout relievers, he acquires one who might end up helping Romano in the bullpen.
I don’t know man … but it really is frustrating as hell. Atkins really does throw darts and hope it sticks.
jimmertee
The good news is Atkins and Shapiro are trying and are willing to go to Rogers to spend money. I am as hoping Kikuchi would be that lights out setup guy but I doubt it now. I knew it was a bad signing the minute I first heard about it and they can’t throw money away like that.
DefensiveIndifference
Perfect! Now my Cardinals can trade the Jay’s one of our 700 outfielders for one of your catchers. Mo, get on the horn like nowwww. Also, I want Kirk. Make it happen! Thanks homie
DefensiveIndifference
Whichever of the outfielders that gets us Kirk. Please and thanks
KamKid
Hey Mariners fans. A question about Swanson. Everything in his numbers jumps off the page. Both results and statcast type metrics. So one question I have is why he wasn’t used in high leverage. His average leverage index was only 1.11. Was this a case of him never being that good before and having to work his way into more prominent roles by the end of the season? Or was he just never trusted with much leverage and they were content with a guy who was really good in lower leverage spots? Striking out 35% of the 1-4 hitters in a lineup is much more impressive than striking out 35% of the 6,7,8,9 batters. You can only do the job you’re given and Swanson did a great one. I’m just not sure why he wasn’t given a bigger one.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
If I remember correctly, Swanson got injured right when he was amping up to his elite level. When he returned from IR they started him back at lower leverage situations and he worked back up again. Then the season was over. But the entire season he was strong overall, too bad he had that injury kind right in the meat of the schedule.
KamKid
Thanks IgnorantSOB and Chester Copperpot. Aside from relievers being volatile, they can also be mirages because they are used in context so numbers can be deceiving. His 1.11 pLI would have ranked sixth on the Blue Jays last year. Though I sure hope he’s good enough that if he were in the Toronto pen that he would have been turned to in much higher leverage. There’s the part of me that worries he was sheltered from tougher situations and that’s why the numbers look so good. I’m in the east so I’m asleep before your west coast games even get going. Haven’t seen a lot of Swanson.
Chester Copperpot
M’s bullpen was loaded with high performers and they tended to pitch to situations more than roles. I’m not sure it says so much about Swanson as it does about the depth of the M’s ‘pen. I wouldn’t worry about it one bit. Swanson is a very good pitcher.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Mixed Feelings about this one:
1. Whenever watching the M’s play the Jays, Teo seemed kind of oafish and un-athletic. Maybe distracted. But also saw some laser doubles off the wall.
2. Seattle churns out a couple relievers like Swanson every year, so not too concerned about losing him…yet
3. $14mil seems a steep price for a one year rental of Teo’s caliber and I would prefer Haniger overall. But it looks like that ship has sailed. Meh.
Dumpster Divin Theo
You saw something oafish and unatheletic when watching the games. Sure that wasn’t just your reflection off the Telly, ysomeone sitting in their tidy whideys on the couch
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
That definitely could have been the issue my friend.
Dumpster Divin Theo
And The Oscar goes to….Jerry Dipoto and the Seattle Ms
Dumpster Divin Theo
Wow the Blue Jey Heys just gave up the Oscar for a frozen hungry man dinner and some macko
Hank Murphy
Relivers are failed starters and only a small, rare few are worth paying a lot or parting resources for. If they were really good pitchers, they would be in the rotation. Bob McCowan said this over twenty years ago, and it is as correct today as it was then
The Blue Jays need starters, and a manager that doesn’t pull his starters at the drop of a hat.
This was an a terrible deal for the Blue Jays.
BenBenBen
The word “too” does not need a comma before it, per CMOS 6.52. Wish Adams, other MLBTR writers, and their editors could be bothered to consult the most respected style guide in American English. Until then, I’ll keep commenting about this.
JackStrawb
@BenBenBen This, too, must be highlighted. Cheers,
BenBenBen
It’s even not entirely necessary in your example.
JackStrawb
Very respectable return. Teoscar is a subpar fielder going on 30 yo, moving into the DH portion of his career, a projectable 3-win player who is controllable for one year and will make around $14 million. That is NOT a player who brings in a haul. He offers perhaps $10m in surplus value above his expected salary. What can you get in MLB for $10m in 2023? Not much. The Jays did just fine here.
bluejays92
Teoscar has grown on me a lot in the past few seasons. He was someone who really frustrated me through his first few seasons as a Jay because he’d make some really dumb mistakes; he did, fortunately, seem to tamp down on those a bit. He seems like a pretty decent guy from everything I’ve seen and heard so I hope that he does well out west.
With all of that being said, I like this trade a lot. I know that Swanson doesn’t have a long history of Big League success, but we really do need a power arm in the pen and while I don’t expect him to be as good as he was this season he should still be a nice upgrade. The fact that there’s a nice chunk of relatively cheap team control is great too. The young prospect (Canadian at that, which is always cool) is intriguing and a nice addition.
I can only assume that they’ll be on the hunt for another OF (I know there’s the rumour that they’ve got interest in Nimmo which I like) bat since as of right now it’d be Gurriel, Springer and then probably a platoon situation with Merrifield and Biggio. For as much as everyone likes Jackie Bradley’s defense, I assume they’re going to upgrade his spot on the team rather that re-signing him.
davemlaw
M’s should have just offered the QO to Haniger
Teoscar is basically the same player and they gave up a good bullpen arm and pitching prospect.