There’s been much chatter around the Astros and extensions recently, with Cristian Javier already locked up and the club also interested in deals for players like Kyle Tucker, Alex Bregman and Jose Altuve. However, one player who doesn’t seem to be on the verge of signing a lengthy new pact is left-hander Framber Valdez, as his agent Ulises Cabrera tells Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle that no extension talks have taken place thus far.
“That is 1,000 percent categorically false,” Cabrera said in response to a report that Valdez could sign before Opening Day and was looking for over $150MM. “I haven’t even had a conversation with (general manager Dana Brown) with respect to Framber Valdez. There are no negotiations. Whatever conversations that do exist will not be handled in the press.” That’s not to suggest that an extension is off the table, of course. “He likes Houston,” Cabrera says of Valdez. “Whatever conversation (happens) beyond that is something we’ll address if necessary. Until then, there’s no use in speculating.”
Part of the reason that extensions have been in the spotlight in Houston is the hiring of Brown a few weeks ago. He came over from an Atlanta organization that has been the most aggressive in the league when it comes to locking up core players to lengthy extensions. Brown has been quite open about his desire to bring a similar strategy to Houston and the club has already crossed one player off the list. Last week, Javier and the club agreed to a five-year, $64MM guarantee that secured his salary for his three remaining arbitration years as well as buying out two free agent seasons.
The situations with Valdez and Javier have some parallels but also some notable differences. Both players have between three and four years of service time right now, meaning Valdez is currently slated to reach free agency after 2025, just as Javier was before agreeing to his new deal. Valdez’s track record of success is a bit lengthier, but he’s also significantly older since he had a sort of late bloomer trajectory. He was up-and-down over his first couple of seasons and didn’t truly establish himself until the 2020 season, when he was 26. Javier, on the other hand, also cemented himself in that 2020 campaign when he was 23.
Looking at the results, Valdez and Javier have been similarly effective, though they’ve accomplished that in different ways. Valdez has a 3.38 ERA with a 3.66 FIP while his teammate has a 3.05 ERA but a 3.90 FIP. Javier’s 30.9% strikeout rate is much better than the 22.9% rate of Valdez, but the reverse is true in terms of getting ground balls, with Valdez at 66.2% thus far in his career and Javier at only at 27.1%. Valdez has also built this résumé over a large sample size, with his 514 1/3 innings almost twice as large as the 304 1/3 of Javier, and his 8.5 fWAR tally is also heftier than the 4.5 of Javier.
Given the larger sample of quality work, Valdez could perhaps make an argument that he is deserving of an even larger contract than what Javier just secured. He also qualified for arbitration a year ago as a Super Two player, which allowed him to earn $3MM last year and $6.8MM this year. Javier, on the other hand, had requested at $3.5MM for this year while the Astros filed at $3MM, before the extension was agreed upon. With Valdez getting himself to a higher price point, that would give him extra leverage in trying to top Javier in extensions talks.
But it’s possible that the age situation causes the calculus to change. In the case of Javier, the Astros are paying him for five seasons in which he will be aged 26 in the first and 30 in the last. For Valdez, the Astros can already control him via arbitration through his age-31 season and any extension would involve locking him in for his age-32 campaign or beyond. It’s possible that the club would have a bit less motivation to keep Valdez around longer since they already control the bulk of what are likely to be his prime years.
Then there’s also the player perspective to consider. Though Javier gave up two free agent years when he put pen to paper, he’s still slated to become a free agent prior to his age-31 campaign and could be in position to find another lengthy deal. If Valdez were to strike a similar deal that also gave the club two extra years of control, he wouldn’t hit the open market until the offseason where he turns 34, which would likely limit him to short-term deals even if he’s still having good results on the field at that point.
It’s possible that Valdez would prefer to stay on his current trajectory so that he can hold onto his best chance of a mega deal. It’s also possible that the Astros could simply put forth an offer that’s too good for him to pass up, but based on the comments from his agent, that doesn’t seem to be something that’s imminent. For now, he’ll be going into 2023 arguably as the frontman of the Houston rotation, with Justin Verlander now pitching for the Mets. He’ll be looking to build off an excellent season where he made 31 starts with a 2.82 ERA, and then took the ball another four times in the postseason with a 1.44 ERA, helping the club to its second World Series title.
kiddhoff
Wow!
baked mcbride
NOBODY F$&@S WITH THE FRAMBER!
Valkyrie
Did someone try?
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Surprised they haven’t begun discussions, but if they were planning an offer in the Javier range, not shocked it’s a non starter.
I think a 6 year/$160M offer would get it done if Houston wants to keep him, but I am guessing they feel they’re getting his best years at a cheap price and will let someone else overpay in a bidding war when he’s just too old to maintain this level of performance in his 30’s.
Astros2017&22Champs
Never ever assume anyone is telling the truth brother. Could he be? Sure. But more often than not people tell lies. That 150 million number takes leverage away from Framber’s camp. I personally believe there has been preliminary talks but theres no reason for agents to admit them. Leverage is everything.
Astro fan 111
With three years of team control remaining there is no way the Astros offer 6/160. More likely 6/100 to 6/110.
Bright Side
Framber is 29. He should sign whatever the Astros put in front of him. They’ve got him by the coconuts.
cwsOverhaul
There can be a happy medium to just tack on 1yr of free agency, so he reaches it at 33. Come up with reasonable salary estimates for the 3 arb seasons and 20mil for the extra year since you don’t get retail rate. Tack on tiered incentives related to top 5 CYA votes with more $ the higher he places.
Astros Hot Takes
problem that I see, post Javier extension, and given that the tax is calculated on an aav basis, and they are getting pretty close to the first threshold already…..how can they afford to extend anybody except Altuve? Bregs might fit in the gap they have left, but Framber or Tucker are gonna shoot them over, given the HUGE difference between what they’re earning now, and what the aav would be on a 5-year or more extension for either of them.
Rocker49
At least they just got $43ish million per season off the books from Verlander.
Valkyrie
They are nowhere near the first threshold
Astros Hot Takes
Yo @Valkyrie – per the Javier extension article here at MLBTR, “The extension has a more notable impact on the club’s luxury tax calculation. A deal’s average annual value counts against a team’s CBT ledger. Javier’s now at $12.8MM from a CBT perspective, bringing Houston’s projected tax number around $218MM. That leaves them about $15MM shy of the $233MM base threshold.”
User 3595123227
Framber lol.
Deleted Userr
Hector Gomez wrong again.
BeansforJesus
Smart move. Extend him now and watching him balloon to 275
Astros2017&22Champs
Like the article states the Astros control him for another 3 seasons. I would love to retain Framber but he’s not nearly as important as others on the team. Not saying he’s unimportant either. He’s our Ace. But this is why you need brilliant gms. TeamBuilding is so hard.
Old York
Trade him while he’s at peak value.
Astros2017&22Champs
Uhhh? Thats what permanent rebuilding teams do.
Old York
@Astros2017&22Champs
Yes, Astros are a permanent rebuild team right now. I’d be surprised if they win 70 games this year.
Valkyrie
LOL. Okay. You’re dismissed as a reliable source of input.
Old York
@Valkyrie
Did you really think people on the internet were reliable sources of input? LOL!
Valkyrie
Well, certainly not you anyway.
toomanyblacksinbaseball
Whatever happened to guys named Juan, Jesus, Amos, Babe, Mickey, Dave, Mike, Bob, Harmon, Rod, Cesar, Chili, Boog,
BeansforJesus
That list of names makes me smell toast. What are you talking about?
What ever happened to guys named Jean Jacket, sTan, Jeff, Rodney, PinkEye, and 39?
Woods Rider
I wonder if the substance he used in his hair during the WS is the sticking point in negotiations?
case
They still have their foreign substance chemist on retainer, now he does hair.
Biggio’s 2
Lol. What a joke.
Cleon Jones
‘Stros have all the leverage. Cant see them extending except at their price and length. What a spot to be in, having this guy secured through 26…hard to screw it up if youre the gm. Roll the dice on 3 more arb years or pay 15M+ compared 6.8M this year? I could see them letting it ride.
FRL
Good analysis, but it is a bit of an Apples 2 Oranges comparison here:
Valdez is a legit ace at this point. He’s found his identity as an elite groundball specialist who logged 201ip last year.
Javier is an unhittable effectively wild high fastball artist who just transitioned to starting full time this year, and he’s 3.5 years younger with less service time.
Maybe net/net the value is the same, but Framber is the guy you’d give the ball to if you needed 7+ innings tomorrow to win one game.
Mehmehmeh
Reading between the lines here, the team very likely had already attempted to negotiate with Framber through FO execs before Dana Brown’s hire.
acoss13
I think Houston is going to be able to lock up both Valdez and Tucker. This is the same strategy Dana Brown was a part of in Atlanta and Crain has already done deals like this before so it’s not something he’d be opposed to. Houston will continue to dominate the AL it seems kudos to their fanbase.
LordD99
Kudos go to management and players, not fans.
aragon
manfraud hates baseball!
astros_fan_84
The Astros can definitely get the deal done, but it’s probably not what Framber thinks he’s worth. I’d love to keep him, but not on a bad deal.
LordD99
The Astros control him for three more seasons and he won’t be a free agent until he’s 32. His leverage is minimal at the moment.
His agent seems pretty animated and vocal talking to the media, while at the same time saying this won’t be negotiated through the media. I suspect there are half truths here. He can truthfully say there are no negotiations with Brown and thus no $150MM request, but that doesn’t mean some discussions didn’t occur previously with Click or Crane.