The Orioles are passing on their opportunity to trigger a five-year extension of their lease at Camden Yards, reports Jeff Barker of the Baltimore Sun. According to Barker, the team is in search of “a longer-term, more comprehensive stadium agreement” with the Maryland Stadium Authority.
The Orioles’ lease at Camden Yards remains in effect through the end of the 2023 calendar year. The team faced a decision on whether to tack on additional five seasons to remain in their lease through 2028, a condition of a February 2021 extension agreement between the franchise and the MSA. Barker writes the club is optimistic about its chances of hammering out a longer deal, one which might include upgrades to the ballpark and potential development projects in the surrounding area.
That’s a hopeful indicator for fans in the area who might be apprehensive about the possibility of losing the franchise. Those worries won’t be officially quelled unless and until a new agreement is finalized, however. The sides now have 11 months to do so before the current agreement expires. Barker reports the organization is seeking a deal of 10-15 years in length and is hopeful to get something done by the All-Star Break. A recent Maryland law would allow the MSA to borrow up to $600MM for Orioles’ stadium upgrades (with a matching amount available for the NFL’s Ravens) but requires a longer-term deal than the five-year pact the O’s were deciding upon today, Barker notes.
The sides could still pivot to negotiate another short-term extension akin to the one agreed upon two years ago. That’d appear a fallback to their desired goal of a significantly longer commitment, one that’ll remain a key story for the franchise over the coming months.
After this news broke, the club issued a press release with quotes from Maryland Governor Wes Moore as well as O’s Chairman and CEO John Angelos. “When Camden Yards opened thirty years ago, the Baltimore Orioles revolutionized baseball and set the bar for the fan experience,” Moore says in the statement. “We share the commitment of the Orioles organization to ensuring that the team is playing in a world-class facility at Camden Yards for decades to come and are excited to advance our public-private partnership. We look forward to writing the next chapter of major league baseball in Maryland as we continue to make magic for fans and meaningful investment for communities across our state.”
“I am looking forward to continuing to collaborate with Governor Moore, his administration, and the Maryland Stadium Authority in order to bring to Baltimore the modern, sustainable, and electrifying sports and entertainment destination the State of Maryland deserves,” Angelos says in the same press release. “We greatly appreciate Governor Moore’s vision and commitment as we seize the tremendous opportunity to redefine the paradigm of what a Major League Baseball venue represents and thereby revitalize downtown Baltimore. It is my hope and expectation that, together with Governor Moore and the new members and new chairman of the MSA Board, we can again fully realize the potential of Camden Yards to serve as a catalyst for Baltimore’s second renaissance.”
The lease uncertainty comes at a time when the franchise’s ownership situation is the subject of controversy. Longtime O’s owner Peter Angelos is now 93 years old, and his sons Louis and John are embroiled in a legal battle. Louis Angelos has sued his brother and mother Georgia Angelos, alleging that John Angelos has blocked his mother’s wishes to sell the franchise and that John and Georgia have seized control of Peter Angelos’ assets in the Orioles and his law firm at Louis’ expense. Louis also implied that John Angelos could eventually attempt to move the franchise to Tennessee, something John Angelos has strongly denied.
John Angelos was part of a promotional event with Baltimore mayor Brandon Scott on Martin Luther King Jr. Day to announce the creation of a scholarship for local schools. Angelos, however, refused to entertain a question from Dan Connolly of the Athletic about the franchise’s ownership situation, bizarrely calling it “(an inappropriate) subject matter for this day” (video link provided by Paul Gessler of CBS Baltimore). He did reiterate, however, that “we’re not going anywhere.” Angelos expressed openness to showing Connolly and other reporters the organization’s financials and specifics of the ownership structure at another point. There’s no indication that process has been set up.
If the Orioles lose Camden Yards they will definitely regret it. What a beautiful Stadium. One of the best Stadiums in major league baseball for sure. Smh
Hey! I don’t think the O’s are moving, but if they did, the Rays would say, “Hmmmmm…”
Baltimore is the 26th ranked media market. Tampa Bay is 13th, MLB is not leaving for a smaller market wherever it is.
It was in 1993, and still has charm at the field level. The rest of it is as dated as any cookie cutter concrete stadium from the 70s. The concession options are very generic, there is little to do in the surrounding environment.
It’s not a bad place to watch a game, don’t get me wrong, but everything built this century is much much nicer.
Ancient Expos Fan
I still think Camden Yards is a top 5 venue to watch a game. I’m less concerned with the concessions and surrounding amenities – I just love the whole atmosphere of that stadium.
Exactly. You are there to watch a Baseball game, the fact that there isn’t an upscale mall, bar, nightclub, or other nonsensical places surrounding the park should be irrelevant
@Ted – The grand plan is the develop the area between OPACY, Ravens Stadium, and the Harbor into an entertainment type district. TBD if it happens.
Concessions options have nothing to do with stadiums. All of them accept bids from outside contractors which run some concessions and subcontract to other subcontractors.
There are fun bars you can sprint to. And lots of other fun places you can walk to. Of course there are also cabs and ubers to take to other fun places downtown.
Never liked Peter Angelos at all; to be fair I have to give the kid some time to show what he is about. At least some of the Orioles fans seem to think that he is not going to be a meddling micro-manager of an owner.
I highly doubt that this is anything but procedural, and a way to work towards obtaining significant improvement $$ for Camden Yards. It is all about the revenues. Plus, they will work to see if there is some other real estate development nearby. Baltimore should be fine, as long as they are not upset with more corporate welfare.
I doubt very strongly that the O’s are going to move. In his stupidity Manfred intends to add two more teams when there isn’t enough talent to go around now. If he goes ahead with expansion, Nashville will probably get one.
Nobody wants to go see a bunch of tumbleweeds and rednecks…the next expansion will happen in Vegas.
You mean the Las Vegas Athletics or A’s.
This one belongs to the Reds
I suspect you will be contraction before expansion as the revenue disparity between large and small markets grows.
Do you see a market like Nashville or Charlotte or even Vegas surviving after the initial newness sets in? A team relocating there would have the same problems after they settle in wherever they go.
@Avenger, how is there a lack of talent? They are drawing from more countries than at any point in the history of the game. The population in the US has also more than doubled since 1950. Not to mention the reach of scouting has expanded exponentially where far more talent is getting discovered. The notion that there is a lack of talent is just being nostalgic and trying to falsely prop up images of players of bygone eras.
This one belongs to the Reds
I am guessing Avenger is referring to the fact that the great athletes are now interested in football or basket rather than baseball because young people are not interested in the game like in years past.
Just look around at what the kids are doing, especially in flyover country.
And even with the rise of popularity in other sports the talent pool is immensely larger. Not to mention all the Latin American players who come from places where it is the most popular sport, or the few countries that soccer is the only competition. And again the vastly greater reach of scouting. Years ago scouts had be physically present to discover talent or soneone had to physically mail tape. Now they can easily access footage of players and numerous websites dedicated to showcasing talent. There are also numerous academies, many more coaches, trainers, etc. Without question the talent pipeline is more elite than at any point in MLB history.
Yes, you are on point about the corporate welfare they are extorting.
I understand Peter has zero fans. But it is true that he worked hard for his wealth and tried to win a WS during his tenure, even if his meddling was often counterproductive. The silver spoon children look like two selfish, greedy scumbags, one a slightly bigger POS (Louie) than the other (John). Though John may be letting Elias manage unencumbered, he seems focused on extracting the maximum amount of profit without being willing to reinvest enough in the team to maximize the teams playoff/WS chances during a period in which their window is wide open for many years to come.
Tumbleweeds and Rednecks is EXACTLY what they have in Las Vegass. Having driven all over the country Nevada has to be the tumbleweed capital of the world. Excepting only maybe Nebraska from what I’ve seen.
Youth football participation is plummeting nationwide. Elite athletes don’t want to have brain damage either. Also, the money and gauranteed contracts are much better in baseball, longer careers, etc. Nobody who can play baseball at a similar level would choose football.
If Vegas gets a team it should be from a relocation (A’s) not an expansion team. Mlb should absolutely not even consider expansion for at least another decade.
Isn’t Baltimore a hell hole? Tennessee is a great move and they could copy Camden Yards there. I’m a Cubbie fan so just a thought.
Baltimore is a hellhole. I live in Northern Virginia from which the O’s used to draw a lot of fans. But with the Nats in DC and with the security situation in downtown Baltimore, no one in his right mind is going to drive to Camden Yards. The O’s averaged 17,000 fans per game in 2022 and I doubt there were ever that number of fans in seats on any given night. The smart thing to do for the Angelos family is to move.
I don’t think this is a fair and accurate assessment. I live between Baltimore and DC and have attended many games in both venues. There is no real security problem around Camden Yards – most of the parking is either between the two stadiums or within a 5 minute walk (much better parking than in DC), and the stadium is right off the highway. For all of Baltimore’s problems (which, like in DC, tend to be in certain areas of the city), I’ve never felt unsafe going to an O’s game (or a Nats game).
PK, you should just stay in VA with your hate but you didn’t say a truthful comment in your screed.
There are a couple of places in every city- DC, NYC, LA, Baltimore – where you should avoid. But every one of them has great places that are beautiful, fun and safe.
There is a lot of racism, politics and “As seen on TV” prejudice that goes into the hatred of Baltimore and the lies about it. And the overwhelming majority comes from people who have never been there or hate going into every city that doesn’t look like Salt Lake City.
I agree with Ra overall, but it the suburban Marylanders who have become increasingly afraid to go to Baltimore and that is more of a problem for the O’s than the feelings of former fans from NOVA.
Personally, I used to enjoy the area around Camden Yards. They had plenty of good bars and neighborhood restaurants.
The main issue with the Baltimore team for lot of former O’s fans who are now Nats fans, such as myself, is with how Angelos tried to prevent MLB”s move back to DC and extorted the MASN deal. I don’t go to many O’s games as a result but would go to more once that it resolved.
@dclivejazz You kind of allude to your reasoning why an owner would try to prevent another team moving into your backyard especially in that part of the country where a lot of teams already play. Ownership knew they were going to lose a sizable portion of their fan base with a team in DC. Why wouldn’t you fight that? It could effect the value of his franchise.
PKCasimir — Camden is on the southern side of Baltimore, 1 traffic light from 95/495, not close to problem areas of Baltimore.
Nats Park is in the heart of the city, surrounded by economic depressed areas of the city.
Nats Park has had to lock-down the park because of flying lead outside the gates. (I was there at one such…1 hour lock down while DC “secured” the area). It’s not cool for Soo many awful reasons.
But that doesn’t happen at Camden Yards.
DClive — Huh? You were an Orioles fan, but when your favorite team fought for it’s legal rights, you hated them for it, and changed team affiliation?
Turncoat, that’s the technical term I believe.
(Afraid to go to Baltimore??!! Have you seen the level of violence that’s happening Right outside Nats Park. I’ve been “locked in” to Nats Park because of safety issues. Never happened at OPACY)
OSay–I would not want to walk a few blocks from Camden at night. I have never been to Nats Park, but don’t consider it the heart of DC.
Regardless, just another way of screwing the taxpayers to help keep a multimillionaire from threatening to move the team.
Paule — Nats Park is 4 blocks from the Capital. The Capital is the center of the Washington DC.
Yes, there are very few Parks where walking around late at night is advised. From Yankee Stadium, to Dodgers stadium…there’s always an element.
Few have warfare outside their front gate like Nats does. (It’s actually getting worse I. Nats Park area…when it first opened it wasn’t as bad…
Paule: A few blocks in every direction from OPACY is VERY safe.
I have and so have many friends in Northern Virginia. You don’t have to drive to see the Nats. Metro now extends over 20 miles from DC in Northern Virginia. The attendance figures prove my point. If you think that only certain sections of Baltimore have a security problem, then you don’t know Baltimore. It is, I repeat, a hellhole.
I’m a Red Sox fan and a baseball fan, ignoramus. Stupid ignorant assumptions on your part.
Not at all. I’m from the West but I’ve spent a couple weekends in Baltimore and it was great! The inner harbor area by Camden Yards is fantastic. I walked all over through there. Cool old markets a few blocks inland, lots of great old houses and cultural attractions, bars, etc. Seemed totally safe, too. I think this “X city is soooo dangerous” is just a big lie used to scare fragile pale folk into staying away from cities. If you look at crime in big cities it’s always very concentrated in certain neglected areas and almost entirely among local residents themselves (aka usually those experiencing poverty and using drugs coming into conflict with each other) The notion that out-of-town people are going to get massacred in tourist areas is totally false and misleading. We really need to push back on that kind of foolishness. Now, I’ve also spent a weekend in Nashville and THAT is a shithole. Like a country-fried low-rent version of Bourbon Street or the Strip. So fake and corny.
They are moving!
I hate that I love this team. Hurry up and head to Nashville so I can find another, better run team to anguish over.
If you want to find another team to root for, go ahead and do it now. You’re a fake fan. You’d be perfect as a Yank fan.
No, they are holding out for even more taxpayer money. The team isn’t going anywhere.
They won’t. But they should. It’s a God-awful area and the team rarely finishes higher than 3rd-from-last in attendance.
“the team rarely finishes higher than 3rd-from-last in attendance.”
What a bizarre thing to fabricate. 2019 is the only time since 2000 that they’ve failed to finish higher than 3rd-from-last.
No they are not. It’s not that easy. MLB is not NFL.
This stadium is relatively new and for certain not outdated. It’s a sad precedent if somehow the Orioles would move with this fine ballpark they already have.
I understand a situation like the Rays stadium, but this doesn’t make sense.
It’s massively outdated especially as far as potential revenue and that’s what matters.
DreamGM — I don’t know what you mean about outdated. Since 1993 when it was opened, till today, there have been Lots of updates to the Park.
The flag court has seen 2 different make overs. The CF/Batters Eye had a out door bar added. Momenument Park with Cal, Eddie, Brooks, Earl, Frank, and Jim were all added. The Locker rooms have gotten remodeled at least once (I think twice). The boxes have been remodeled dozens of times. Walls have been moved in/back and last year the Mount Baltimore wall added. Turf has been redone on a least 3 times over the years. And the concessions are annually being changed/improved. The front gate has been reworked since 1993 too.
I don’t know how other parks go, but Camden is nothing close to the 1993 version. MSA has done a very good job of continuing to fund renovations and remodels to the Park. (Except the 2/3 years Maryland and the Orioles were squabbling about a couple million on a loan from the construction of the park in 1993.)
Ive been to Wriggly and seen nets on the ceiling to stop the falling concrete from hitting fans. I don’t know about many other stadiums (8 I’ve been too, and 2 of those are gone now), but Camden is in fine shape and has been invested in and cared for.
O’sSayCanYouSee So they added a outdoor bar. Turf locker rooms are routine maintenance. I’m not spending money to go check out the new sod. Monument park will sell 1 ticket to some fans. Teams want Wrigleyville the battery. Luxury clubs bars restaurants. Remodeling is nice but can only do so much. You just can’t build a new ballpark every 20 30 years but to say it’s new and not outdated? It’s what they got and it’s fine but middle of the pack as far as suites and amenities.
People like Chicago and love Wrigley. The historical legacy factor is it’s revenue generator. Crumbling concrete doesn’t keep people from showing up.
DreamGM — Camden might not be modernized (Phillies stadium is awesome w/ wrap around bar area, that is dope) but it is changing to keep it from being outdated. I get you on that, but I think Camden is going to age where it sits like a Wrigley Field. Not all stadiums have to be modern, and Camden from the start was to be retro.
Reading a bit between the lines, it seems Baltimore is trying to make a long term lease in order get the most investment money. The current Ownership signs a long term deal with Maryland, sells team in 2-3 years, but keeps promise to keep team in Baltimore.
This goes beyond the stadium. Teams are trying to increase the value of their respective franchises by developing areas around the ballparks similar to what the Cubs did. Cities that refuse to sell land and offer tax incentives to professional sports franchises risk losing them. The Orioles would be negligent not to pursue this. The Nashville Mockingbirds? Meh.
After the Washington Senators debacle years ago, you would think MLB would do something to prevent that from happening again.
Which of the two Senators’ moves are you referring to?
The Stadium is 30 years old the Braves for example have gotten 2 stadiums in that time.
Sorry you built a shtty stadium and wasted all that money the first time. Hope it works out for you this time.
No surprise the Angelos family looking to put as much of the burden for improvements on the back of the state and taxpayers. Shame the politicians are too scared of blowback for losing a team to just say, ok,bye,and then eventually get another team to relocate there that won’t be cheap and continue to screw over the Nationals with MASN.
I dont believe the O’s own the stadium, and the O’s get the same payout the Nats get from MASN. They happen to have controlling interest in the network and choose to reinvest money into the network instead of paying it out to the two teams. The Nats don’t control the network, so why wouldn’t they want to extract every penny out of it? They claim the Angelos family keeps money in the network to have easier access to it and hide it from revenue sharing. Theres probably some truth to that. Either way, I feel like this is a fight MLB should have seen coming. They never should have put a team in Washington, or they should have compensated the Orioles some other way. I love that Montreal wants a team again. Irony.
The originator of the retro-stadium era! Great park. Sad the taxpayers will be extorted once again to protect owners profits.Welfare for the .0001 percent, very sad.
Welfare for rich people that’s what I’m talking about! I love watching the little guys paying for subsidies for the well off. Suffer and like it!
The City of Baltimore is very probably broke. Most American cities are. The Federal government is broke. That’s what having a deficit means – the government spends more than it takes in. To make up the difference it issues Treasury Bonds. You might want to look into that.
Previous generations understood how these things worked……
An area wants a professional baseball park for their team. Usually the City spearheads the effort and attracts other public entities. They then borrow the money – in the same way that owners of professional sports teams don’t pay cash when they buy their franchise (or when most Americans buy their home). Simply put, every time a fan purchases a ticket to attend an event a special tax is a part of the ticket price. In turn, that tax is sent back to a fund that’s used to pay off the money borrowed – i.e.. retiring the debt.
Just about every park in America is funded like this – the only exception I’m aware of was the Giants park in San Francisco which used private financing, although I haven’t kept up with that.
No owner is “making profits at the expense of the public”….and I believe all owners have large debt payments each year for money they borrow to buy and run their teams.
This used to be pretty basic stuff. Most of the people in America are economically illiterate. Been getting worse each year for well over 50 years.
Not exactly. The tax to fund stadiums need not be on tickets and normally isn’t. PNC was funded by a sales tax increase in an eleven county area. Most of the spring training facilities in Phoenix metro were funded by a tax on hotel rooms and rental cars. In most cases, we transfer money from the general public, whether they are sports fans or not, to fund stadiums. Funding stadiums is a form of welfare for owners, players and employees of the teams.
PNC was funded by a sales tax increase that was forced on citizens by the state legislature after voters turned down a tax increase referendum.
Most publicly funded stadiums are funded by increases in TOT taxes. Transient Occupancy Tax. The people paying it are the people staying in hotels in the area.
The state of Maryland is not broke. At all.
There’s funds and the O’s want the public money. No surprise there
Hogwash, except for the last paragraph.
“Most of the people in America are economically illiterate.”
Your post gives evidence that at least one is, provided that you do live in America.
It allows the Maryland stadium authority to borrow & issue bonds. This is to get the O’s to sign a long term lease. The argument for this “investment” is increased tax revenue. They recoup money through the hotel taxes and the spending in the area. That’s the theory anyway. in reality it’s more of a sweet deal for the teams to stay.
Please don’t act like you know how any of this works. You don’t at all.
Let this be a lesson to you on your snarky BS. You know way less than you think you do…..
In any case, we have really found 1 economically illiterate American. Congrats, Fink!
First of all, my comment wasn’t in reply to you — unless “Samuel” is an alternate screen ID you’re using. That couldn’t have been clearer, given that I included a quote from Samuel in my comment.
Second of all, the stadium scam has long since been exposed by multiple economic studies published by collegiate academics with expertise in economics. Here’s a sampling of such experts who agree that it’s a scam:
And here’s a discussion of the $706 million that construction of the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field cost New York taxpayers — whether they gave a damn about baseball or not:
Is “Samuel” another screen ID you’re using?
Samuel is mostly only good for laughs.
BStrowman, or Samuel, or whoever you are — this question was posed to a panel of experts assembled by The University of Chicago Booth School of Business:
“Providing state and local subsidies to build stadiums for professional sports teams is likely to cost the relevant taxpayers more than any local economic benefits that are generated.”
The results, weighted by their confidence in their response, were 26% who strongly agreed and 57% who agreed, compared to 4% who disagreed.
Among the respondents on the panel were economics professors from MIT, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, the University of Chicago, Berkeley, Stanford, and Columbia University.
These are the credentials of just one of those who agreed with the statement:
Dwight D. Eisenhower Professor of Economics and International Affairs, Emeritus
Senior Scholar, Woodrow Wilson School
Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel (2015)
President of the American Economic Association (2009)
“Please don’t act like you know how any of this works.” Isn’t that what you’re doing — acting like you know how this works?
I’m certainly not going to act like I know more about the issue than the winner of a Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences.
Read the article. The Orioles would have access to a $600 million loan to upgrade the stadium if they sign a long term lease. Key word, loan.
The Orioles don’t get the loan though, the public entity that owns the stadium does. They, in turn, get to keep an MLB tenant. The alternative is the team leaves, the public entity collapses when they don’t get a long term tenant and the city has an eyesore laying around that would take tax dollars to remove. Those dollars, unlike this loan, don’t get paid back.
This is why isht like this continues to be funded. People see “loan” and act like they know what is going on.
This is a public funded investment.
Anyways these stadium upgrades comes in & they build a Sportsbook in there, which has been kicked around, I don’t see that as being a good public investment.
There’s a casino quite literally across the street. It’ll be great for the Angelos’ to get some more revenue coming in from that but it just likely diverts probable revenue from the horseshoe casino owners to the O’s. Can’t imagine that’s going to significantly increase state Tax revenue.
Please read the article. They are talking about a loan from the state of Maryland.
Hope to see the Baltimore Orioles playing in Camden Yards for years to come.
Looking forward to taking my son there some day.
congrats on kids
Thanks. Best thing ever.
Can confirm. Have 3. Rewarding that I got to grow up with Griffey, and my son gets to grow up with JRod
Halo, I would be happy to show you around town.
Nice. I’ll take you up on that some day
Does this site offer a way to PM?
Don’t think so.
I’m not heading there for a few years, but I’ll shoot you my email address before I do.
C Yards Jeff
Anthony and Darragh. Grateful for this site and the writings by you and others. A question. Which one of you used the word “bizarrely” to describe Mr. Angelos response to Dan C’s question? To me, that’s quite a stretch. Considering the topic of the event, IMO, a very civil and appropriate response to that question.
Connolly has written some off-the-wall stuff through the years. Some of it very critical of Angelos Sr, the sons, the team management, etc. Give Connolly’s approach and history, one could say that is little reason to be anything but mildly civil towards Connolly.
It’s incredibly bizarre to invite the sports media to an event, tell them there will be an open format Q&A, then on the second question act like a team beat writer shouldn’t be allowed to ask a very pertinent question about the team’s future.
Angelos made an ass of himself then went completely off the deep end, promising to open his books to the media the following week. When it came time to put up or shut up, he just hid and pretended like it never happened.
What a pathetic weasel. Just another sad little nepotism crybaby.
Bizarrely? Really? It was MLK day not Orioles need a new lease day.
It was the first time John had been available for questions since the lawsuit. He set it up that way. Of course there were gonna be questions.
Childish. The question was whether the city was concerned partnering with a team whose ownership has been so opaque and fraught with controversy that won’t commit to a lease.
Once again we are blackmailed and threatened by a few rich guys. It is time to end “socialism” for the rich, giving them free cash to build stadiums and infrastructure and even private residences and shops and then having them blackmail citizens again for more cash while paying bribes to politicians. If taxpayers give cash to build stadiums and all the rest that means taxpayers OWN what they pay for. No need for this criminal family mafia to be in the middle of the fans and their taxpayer cash. The city/region/fans own the team (like the Packers and countless European and other soccer clubs), and a GM is hired to run the team to win and not “rebuild” constantly. Let’s end “socialism” for the rich few and oligarch control of our national game!
There’s no blackmail. They can just say this is our best offer if you don’t like it you can leave.
…. guess you better focus upon soccer then as none of what you said is going to happen in America, in baseball, football, or basketball. Sorry.
Already happened in football. Check out a little ol’ good team called the Packers. And never say never. People paid off and brainwashed by oligarchs said we would never have social security, never have pensions, never have Medicare, never have direct election for Senate, never have a corporate tax, never have…a million things people have and like and think is natural and very, very American. A few oligarchs getting free cash is not something Americans will support much longer. Regards..
Social Security and Medicare have been running in the red for years – and ya ain’t seen nothin’ yet. (Social Security was supposed to be a Retirement System Trust Fund. The politicians keep taking money out of it for people and projects that didn’t pay in. They do what the executives of Enron did….but they decided that’s OK when they do it.) Government pensions dwarf private pensions- including executives – which is why most states are broke as well as the Federal government running ever increasing deficits.
FYI – For years the 5 wealthiest counties by IRS figures surround Washington, D.C. Not one county around Wall Street / the Hamptons, LA, Silicon Valley, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. No, it’s the 5 counties that surround DC – where they print the money.
History shows that Bubbles Burst. Sometimes countries have Depressions, sometimes they have to fight wars when they get in those situations. For sure the standard of living drops substantially.
SS is currently funded into the future for at least 25 years
Raise the wage cap a little to reflect inflation and it is funded in perpetuity. Or open all income and lower the investment, which would help middle class people, lower class people and businesses.
Stop with your politics. It’s dull and your poverty-creation agenda is easily dismissed as propaganda.
@RA SS is a scam man. You get — 4% of your money back. That keeps people poor. You take peoples money and hamstring their retirement earning potential. The money is far better invested in something else like S&P over 30 years or something like Gold if one wants to be more conservative. SS should be private and have the option to actively managed or passively managed by ETF.
According to the SSA, in present value terms, the 75-year shortfall is $16.8T, or $16,800,000,000,000.
And if you don’t like politics, stop bringing it into the discussion.
This is actually false. Social Security is funded for at least 25 years now. Also, the ONLY reason SS has any funding issue is that high incomes are exempt from paying into the system. That’s right, exempt! Another giveaway to the wealthy. This year any income over $147,000 is totally exempt and people earning more than that pay absolutely nothing into SS on that income. The simple fix, proposed repeatedly in Congress, is to simply remove that exemption. If so, SS would be 100% funded forever. Forever! It’s a nearly perfect system but for that flaw.
Yes!! I’m a Vikings fan so I don’t like the Packers on then field but what’s the ONE team you never hear anyone complain about their greedy, bloodsucking owners? Yep. Best model in sports. I’d be in favor of a law that specified that any major sports team would have to be offered for sale to the fans at market value before it could be moved. I think that’d take care of that threat. And, if accepting any public money for a stadium, ownership would be required to transfer 49% of the franchise to the fans so any increase in value would be realized by the community also. I think that would make stadia easy to build suddenly!
What European soccer teams are owned by their fans, like the Packer’s situation?
So many. Some structured as NPOs. It would be simple to end MLB Oligarch “ownership” of teams. City/region/fan “owned” as NPOs with money made from TV rights, sponsorships, ads, etc. simply put back into the teams & stadiums. No need for taxpayers to hand over cash to Oligarchs, who also get bank cash guaranteed by taxpayers, who then use that cash to buy politicians, TV networks, and even English soccer teams. It would be cheaper to buy out current Oligarchs at market price at time of purchase + x%, then hand over, say, 1 billion to the owner of Tampa Rays to build shops and senior housing and, oh, a stadium for baseball.
Ga — Remember too, the Orioles themselves were a public team when they came in 1954. (My grandfather was very proud of his ownership title he had bought from the Baltimore Sun ads to buy shares of the new team).
I think it was the ownership group before Angelos that bought the shares back to make it private again. Late 80’s/early 90’s if memory serves.
Las. Vegas. Orioles.
Nationals Park at Camden Yard. Just kidding.
Camden Yards Mall.
Wow, good thing I don’t bet because I would’ve lost this one……
Note to self: don’t ask questions of anyone on MLK day unless it somehow relates to civil rights. All other questions are inappropriate.
C Yards Jeff
It was okay for Don C. to ask the question. And Mr. Angelos responded. To me, a citizen of Maryland, I found his response to be very appropriate considering the reason for the event.
So when is John A. Opening his books like he promised? It was supposed to be last Friday. But that didn’t happen. As a citizen of Maryland, I find him lying on MLK day to not be appropriate. The guy is channeling his inner Bob Irsay
C Yards Jeff
@fivendime; John’s style of ownership communications kinda reminds me more of a Biscotti than Irsay. Steve let’s his football people do the talking. John let’s his baseball do it.
What are you hoping to see by the comment “opening his books…”? How much cash the team has? Since the Angelos family has owned the Birds there’s proof they are flush with cash. Highest payroll in the game at one point in the late 90s. 160 mil around 2016. When Peter wanted to spend, he did. Back in 2017, when Oriole nation knew it was time to rebuild, Peter decided to press on with what he had. And I get it, old and in failing health, he didn’t have time to enjoy the fruits of a 5 year transition. Obviously it backfired. So here’s his son left with that rebuild task. Just like senior did, bringing in McPhail to set the ground work for that 2012 to 2016 run, son is doing the same through Elias.
IMO, Angelos will spend when Elias tells him it’s time to spend.
I mostly agree but John seems like a greedy weasel, a silver spoon POS who never earned a dime, unlike his father. He seems focused on extracting the most profit he can from the franchise, unlike his father’s reinvestment in the team in efforts to win a WS.
And Louie seems even worse – a sleazy, greasy scumbag thief.
…. given Connolly’s outspoken criticism of the Orioles in so many ways…. yes, a question from him on a special day such as MLK could be legitimately shunned aside. Nothing to gain by doing so.
Then why did the team invite the sports media and tell them it was open format Q&A?
Angelos was just trying to get free PR and it backfired on him when he was totally unprepared to answer real questions. That’s why he hasn’t made himself available to the media since 2018.
C Yards Jeff
@Pangolin: was unaware it was an “open format Q&A”. Point taken.
A couple of months back he did give an interview with 105.7. Thought some of the questions had bite. And Mr. Angelos responded forthright. Biggest take. He trusts in Elias. Doesn’t meddle. Which was his Dad’s downfall. IMO, as soon as Elias sees what he has in Rodriguez, and to an extent Hall, will determine how much they will expand payroll and when. The Birds are soooo close to relevancy.
My favorite GM. Hoffberger. Why. Didn’t meddle. And the Birds were relevant throughout his ownership. To me, John has that vibe as well. It’s gonna get fun and soon. Cheers.
C Yards Jeff;
Love the organization Mike Elias has built. It’s interesting to read you constantly point out that the Angelos brother in charge has not stuck his nose in he running of the baseball ops (The Dolan’s are condemned in Cleveland. Initially the father did intervene in baseball affairs – which is why John Hart suddenly quit as GM. The son has been running it since and he stays clear of the baseball part. A big reason they can build good teams on a small market budget….although the good players leave for more money elsewhere as the franchise cannot generate enough revenue to pay – like most small market teams – so they have to continuously rebuild.)
I did not like the older Angelos. Ran one of the best organizations in MLB for decades into the ground. But the son in charge is doing the right thing, and the mother is backing him. It appears the franchise will be sold in the next 2-3 years, and the more attractive it can be made – both with the team on the field and the baseball park – will make it attractive to a potential owner….or owners. If they buy quality and pay a quality price odds are that they’ll keep the operation quality.
Camden Yards is old and could stand refurbishing. Heck, most parks around MLB that have lasted go through this every 2-4 decades. (Dodger Stadium was totally refurbished by the current owners a bit after they bought the franchise. It was run down badly – heck the seats were too small to fit generations of people that eat too much, etc.)
Appreciate your posts. Don’t let anyone scare you. The MLB Commissioner and most owners want the team to stay in Baltimore. This is all a part of again making the Orioles one of MLB’s strongest franchises. 4-5 years from now being an Orioles fan will be more magical than ever.
Despite all the hatred of Peter, he resurrected the franchise that had been robbed bare by corporate thief Eli Jacobs, by far the worst owner in Orioles’ history.
So seriously- the Orioles PR team did not say the Q&A session had to be specific to MLK. Angelos hasn’t been available for questions on any topic in YEARS. Connolly asking a question about the team to the reclusive owner was in bounds,and Angelos feigned criticism about the question being asked is absurd. He used the event to talk down to the media. Reminds me of Irsay at the airport saying reporters were lying about trying to move the team. Angelos then said he would open the books to reporters the following week- Aka last week. Guess what didn’t happen? Again- Another Irsay move. Quit saying that the reporter is in the wrong. Pay attention to the setup that happened and the follow through by the owner.
BaseballGuy1 is an ignorant clown. Connolly is a beat writer, he’s supposed to cover the O’s and does it VERY well.
They should move the stadium to West Baltimore. Reduce that violent crime rate of 724% above the national average.
Yes, but it is ‘mostly peaceful’ violent crime.
Camden Yards is one of the new stadiums that deserves to be around as long as Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. It has been the best (or at least a top 5) MLB stadium ever since it was built. Baseball stadiums should have a longer lifespan than a horse.
Still blows my mind they knocked down old yankee stadium
Yeah, that should’ve been criminal. Old Yankee Stadium should’ve remained forever.
Maybe they could make a miniature version of old Yankee stadium and squeeze it in where the other monuments are.
Maybe they should retire Mike Mussina’s # and bring him back in some capacity with the organization?
It blows my mind that that the taxpayers paid for so much of it.
Camden Yards is the 9th oldest stadium in MLB. It is neither new nor exciting at this point, and desperately needs upgrades in the concourse area and surrounding neighborhood.
And yet it is only 30 years old. That was my point. 30 years old is not that old, especially for a stadium. It’s an absolute disgrace that the Braves replaced Turner Field after only 20 years with that stupid looking stadium with the paper bag lunches in right field. Newer and fancier is not always better.
True, but 30 years on and nothing left to depreciate for owners. Stadium deals are not only about cash or debt subsidies accruing to benefit owners, its also the value of tax credits for new construction (benefiting private entities with public monies), tax depreciation benefits for x years, amortorizing debt, leveraging future capital. Benefits for all of this are restricted to the owners. SOB’s should have their historical balance sheets, and tax returns publicly available for all to see…..only then can the public make informed decisions whether or not this 600M is a good way to use taxpayer funding.
How would an owner’s tax return indicate whether this is a good investment by the government? Amortize the cost over 30 years, and compare it to the benefits the government will get. Then you will have most of your answer.
It WAS one of the greatest stadiums until they pushed the fences so far back because they refuse to field teams that can prevent the other team from hitting so many home runs.
Best modern stadium in the game. I think they’ll get a deal done, but what do I know. I don’t want to be a Nats fan
Best modern stadium? PNC would like to have a talk with you.
Yep, and Target Field is also better. I’d also say Coors but that one is closer.
We have to trust the Angelos family to make a fair deal? Dear God, NO!!!
Headline for The Baltimore Sun on January 2, 2024:
ORIOLES MOVE TEAM OVERNIGHT IN A MAYFLOWER TRUCK, OFFICIALLY RELOCATING TO INDIANAPOLIS
If the O’s would be content drawing 15k and selling out Nashville’s AAA Stadium, they could move to the Music City by this time next year.
They haven’t done over 17k since 2018 (19k). Attendance should get into the 20s though the rest of this decade. But if Nashville is willing to give them the money printer they are looking for and Baltimore isn’t.
If the O’s did move, there would probably be an expansion team in Baltimore which would have new owners. Good luck in Nashville, Angelo’s family!
I’m hopeful that this is a PR move for Wes Moore so he can “lock up the team” long term. Seems like an easy first win.
Good. Move them to New York and rename them the Highlanders.
Lol Old York! Nailed it.
Sad that an organization with so many great players and such a tradition is what it is now. I get that they have some great young talent, perhaps the best group in the game, but is ownership really going to commit to “going for it”?
@FiveandDime: I agree. That gaffe about transparency and taking him downstairs in a week to show him the books was bizarre and ridiculous. Everyone knew he had no intentions on doing that. Why say it? Not like that endeared fans to John. Totally out of touch owner.
Best we can hope for other than a sale to a Maryland based ownership group is that he stays out of the day-to-day, opens the wallet and stops talking.
Multi-billion-dollar corporations never miss a chance to stick it to the public. Let them leave. Oakland or Tampa Bay would think the Baltimore ballpark is a pretty sweet deal. 600,000,000 of taxpayer money. Madness.
KingOmar… you bought the con.
King Omar’s the reason we need a mute button.
You do know that the $600 million to renovate OPACY that is available from the state of Maryland is a loan, not a grant, and its only available if they sign a long term lease. right?
And it’s loaned to the Maryland Stadium Authority, not the Orioles or the Angelos family. You wouldn’t thumb you noses at a tenant who’s landlord decided to borrow a bunch of money to renovate his apartment, public money or otherwise. That’s what’s on the table here.
Too many folks have a ‘Viva Che’ attitude. These are simply business decisions. It’s okay for the local government to invest in businesses.
Too simplistic JoeBrady. And far too complex a subject to delve into deeply on here. However, commercial real estate development was my business for many years, and the reality is striking in that what they project in order to get the $$ approved, vs. what really happens afterwards is very different.
I am hardly opposed to public / private partnerships in order to accomplish a number of goals. However, there needs to be MUCH more accountability – from the developers through the bonding process and to the accountability in government’s role. As they currently stand, most of them are fairy tales concocted to create a narrative in order to spread the wealth around to a very small group of people…usually repeat actors that are politically connected.
I agree with the accountability part. Politicians on both sides will over-estimate the benefits of any deal, in order to get the deal made. And this is often because they will be out of office long before the negative impacts come to fruition.
To me, it is always a cost/benefit analysis.
It isn’t just the politicians…it is everyone involved, and the vast majority of the time. The same large firms are paid to put the project proposals together, and everyone involved knows that they are fairy tales.
And THAT is why it is corporate welfare. If there were principles involved, and far better arguments and analysis as to what is and what needs to be accomplished, then it would be a different story. One could then talk about public / private partnerships with positive agendas and results.
I. for one, am very happy that NYC helped the NYY stay in The Bronx. I hate the Yankees, but like to attend baseball games.
I wasn’t happy when the Baltimore Orioles became the NY Yankees. ((Yeah, yeah, a ‘little’ before my time…but it still miffs me, lol)
I’ve been to several stadiums and Camden is by far my favorite place to watch a game.
So the Orioles are just going to keep striking out this offseason, huh?
The taxpayers who are suckered into paying for sports stadiums get what they deserve. Taxpayer funds and public property should not be used for this purpose. This is just taxpayers subsidizing billionaires. This is just another con done by billionaires and the politicians they own.
Camden Yards is a beautiful ballpark and gives you more of a sense of place than my team’s Nats Park.
The Nats really missed an opportunity when they didn’t site the park so the U.S. Capitol would be easily visible in the distance.
In catching a game at Camden Yards last year I noted one big advantage in Washington. At Nats Park the concourse is open. If you’re in line for concessions and someone hits a triple you can dash over to the rail and watch.
In Baltimore the concourse is closed and you’re stuck with TVs.
Let’s keep giving free cash to criminal families and oligarchs! Just like in Putin’s Russia. Why is it that all those who attack “socialism” (while cashing their Social Security check, getting their Medicare-paid treatment, driving on roads and flying on planes, etc, etc) love to defend a few welfare Oligarchs when they blackmail and bribe their way to more free cash?! Taxpayers pay for it they own it. We don’t need to allow a handful of thugs to use our cash to get more cash.
Joey Bart Future MVP
Declined because they can get $600 million in tax payer funds now. They probably have deals worked out with the current politicians and don’t know who those politicians will be in 5 years. Baltimore has one of the most crime fueled cities but they have over half a billion available for a stadium? Seems silly to me
The money is not coming from the city of Baltimore, its coming from the state of Maryland and its a loan, not a grant.
The only way the Orioles can access that money to renovate OPACY is if they sign a long term lease of at least 15 years.
Can you imagine what happens to that area if the Orioles and Ravens moved out of it?
The Orioles never get access to the money. The MSA does, and only if they secure the Orioles to a long term lease. The state does not want to be in a position where they loaned 600MM to the MSA, only for the Orioles to leave. Without a high profile tenant like an MLB team, the MSA could never repay the loan to the state.
So if there’s no agreement, exactly where will they play in 2024? I’m sorry O’s, we will not give into your demands and your lease expires in a few months. Please pack up your boxes and leave.
Maybe the best thing for O’s fans is if the Orioles leave, and then they get one of the expansion teams with better ownership, who then move into Camden Yards!
They wouldn’t have declined the option if they weren’t most of the way home on a new lease. They aren’t making any demands, and the public money doesn’t got to them. The entity they are negotiating with, the MSA, gets the money, but only if they secure the Orioles to a long term lease. I’m sure the Os will negotiate favorable terms for their rent, but that’s not anything to do with this public money.
We fans may care about our teams, but from a Manfred and Angelos perspective, this is a highly profitable business that intends to find whatever revenues it can. Any one of us thiink Angelos (or any other owner) is going to care where that money comes from? Tickets, parking, concessions, media rights, central fund, and taxpayers are all part of the game for them. If the taxpayer is willing to give them enough free money/concessions, they will stay. If the package isn’t sweet enough for them, they can look for a better deal in another city. Don’t think owners are committed to a city./fan base. They are committed to maximizing profits. It’s up to politicians to decide how much taxpayer-paid-fo goodies goes to MLB, and how to pay for it. Then it’s up to voters to judge the politicians choice of priorities. I live baseball, but if it were my town and the choice was between team ownership or, say, libraries and schools, and cops and sanitation, I’d prefer the services. But that’s me.
That’s the same with most large businesses. They will come to NYC, or any other city, but they will first ask for reduced property taxes, or some other inducement.
And the cities, if they are smart, will do the same. There was a building in Manhattan maybe 59th street. The prospective owners wanted two extra floors above the zoning restrictions. The city’s answer was “and we’d love a state of the art subway station underneath”. The owners got their two floors and the city got a great subway station.
In Yonkers, I think it was Ridge Hill, the developers needed some help with the roads, and the mayor’s response was kind of like “I guess so, but we could really use a new state of the art animal shelter’.
It’s not PNC, but Camden is an awesome park and there is no reason to replace it.
Apparently Baltimore is a crime infested hellhole with crumbling infrastructure, but the best way to solve those issues is to give hundreds of millions to a privately held ball club.
Bohs and Os
The ravens have invested their own money into the stadium to make upgrades in recent years. Turning a stadium built in 1998 into a top fan experiences in the nfl. the orioles haven’t invested a nickle from 1992 until 2022 when they moved the wall back. They could use ravens walk and jointly rename it to “birds walk” to have a great GameDay experience but they choose not to. Pickles pub is the only thing for the Os and it’s a stale experience. I understand why they want to develope the area but the ravens GameDay experience is one of the best in the nfl and I’ve been to over half the stadiums. While the os have one of the best stadiums in the mlb but hands down the worst fan experience and I’ve been to 1/3rd of mlb stadiums.
M&T Bank Stadium was completed in 1998 and its construction was publicly funded. As part of a reduced-price lease, they have paid ZERO dollars to play there, the Ravens agreed to pay for any upgrades to the stadium. They $120 million they invested in upgrades that were completed in 2019 was part of that.
In the new 15 year lease they just signed, the Ravens will continue to play rent free in the stadium, but now must pay for ongoing operations and maintenance at the stadium annually.
Bohs and Os
All true but baltimore had been trying the lure a nfl team there since the colts left. Including a CFL team to prove to the NFL that baltimore was still a football town. They offered Art Modell an offer he couldn’t refuse.
The ravens have a lot of real estate down there too. I don’t know how you make a baseball game experience equivalent to that of football. The tailgate is part of the experience. Not really the same in baseball.
They can open a couple new bars, a Sportsbook, and renovate the stadium but it’s not going to compare to a game day Sunday at the Bank.
8 games v. 81 games a year is a huge factor.
Bohs and Os
Very good points but you don’t need to do it every game. It would be pointless to have a fan experience for the 5k who show up on a Tuesday in April. They have 13 Saturday home games this year which the team could 100% put a band, outdoor bars, and games for the kids on ravens walk. You could even scale it down to when the kids are out of school June to August and do it for 7 Saturday home games.
Bohs — the open bar over the batters wall, the flag court (twice), the box’s seats many times, Monument Park w/ statues of all the Hall of Famers, and the walls have moved more than just last year.
Camden has been upgraded and maintained very well. Just looking at 1993 photos vs. 2021 photos show a very different park. It’s very visable.
As for O’s doing more for the pre-game experience, I’m natural. It won’t affect me, but if others would like it, I’m all for it.
Angelos won’t spend any money on the team, but a profitable entertainment district, sure thing!
Yeah they’re moving to Nashville lol… that’s sad. Camden is beautiful.
Interesting. John and Georgia Angelos are gambling that they can get a long-term deal done with the state of Maryland and the MSA to continue to play at OPACY. So what happens if they can’t?
I dont think their gambling, I bet they are most of the way through negotiations. It’s probably all formalities at this point. If not, there is an empty stadium in Montreal…
‘John Angelos was part of a promotional event with Baltimore mayor Brandon Scott on Martin Luther King Jr. Day to announce the creation of a scholarship for local schools. Angelos, however, refused to entertain a question from Dan Connolly of the Athletic about the franchise’s ownership situation, bizarrely calling it “(an inappropriate) subject matter for this day” (video link provided by Paul Gessler of CBS Baltimore).’
Even if he was dodging the question, he was right: the event was about a scholarship program, not the future of the Orioles franchise. I fail to see how it was “bizarre” for Angelos to say so and to keep the discussion on the topic at hand.
Make the Yankees pay, they always brag that Camden Yards is Yankee Stadium South.
Are the Orioles a major league team?
I’m guessing this comment won’t age very well. Let’s revisit this in a couple seasons…
Oh, such short term memory. 3>0 and 7>2. I don’t think they let minor league teams win World Series and pennants.
For all of those licking the Oligarchs who take taxpayer cash to run MLB teams and say MLB can’t possibly be run by cities/regions/fans (with the money taxpayers actually already give free to a few Oligarchs): FC Barcelona is just one example of how it gets done elsewhere. It is time to end Oligarch control of our national game and end their theft of our taxpayer cash and constant blackmailing and bribing of local politicians. End the MLB exemption, buy out teams at market rate at time of purchase + X% to be determined, say bye-bye criminal Oligarchs.
The supporters own and operate Barcelona. It is the fourth-most valuable sports team in the world, worth $4.76 billion, and the world’s fourth richest football club in terms of revenue, with an annual turnover of €582.1 million.
@Ga: Bonus points for using the word oligarch 4x’s in your post, esp without mentioning the Russians.
It’s just a ploy to renegotiate the terms of the contract. The state get 8% of gross revenue from ticket sales, 10 percent of concessions, 50 percent of the Orioles’ parking receipts, 25 percent of the advertising revenues and 7-to-10 percent of suite and club-level admissions.
These comments are just idiotic to me.. “the area is terrible, they should move, they finish in 3rd place every year” yea ok.. if that’s the case the Yankees should move to because I wouldn’t walk in that neighborhood past 7:00 pm And they haven’t won a WS in almost 15 years, the blue jays should also move because they haven’t won in 30 years. While we’re at it, they should tear down Fenway park because it’s “too old and not advanced like newer stadiums” also the As, Tigers, diamondbacks, Reds, Pirates and several other teams should also move
The stadium is absolutely amazing, the field is beautiful, the food is good, and it wasn’t all that long ago the orioles made the playoffs 3 times in 5 years. Baltimore is going to compete in the next year or two. They already showed a huge improvement last season.
I wish the Orioles would do an “The Wire” night at Camden Yards. They could have Avon throw out the first pitch!
Yeah, and several scenes were shot there – Bunk and McNulty took their sons to a game.
MLB won’t let them leave. They have been in the city almost 70 years. Besides the MLB should be expanding to 32 teams and going back to a 4 division format.
I wonder how many of the people complaining about sports teams understand how often other businesses get tax breaks and free money.
The economic ripple effect of a pro sports team dwarfs that of, say, a Volkswagen plant.
I mentioned that above. Some of the posters sound like the just graduated from their sociology indoctrination classes. These are quid pro quo arrangements. Companies aren’t willingly going to relocate to NYC to pay a gazillion $$$ in property tax, and income tax.
The city is going to benefit from increased property taxes, business tax, income tax from the employees, local spending by the employees, taking a few people off the welfare rolls, etc.
Way too many people consider Corporate America the enemy, instead of a partner.
Las Vegas Orioles
I’m not here to defend Angelos, but how on earth is it “bizarre” or “brazen” for him to shut down that reporter for bringing up a subject that was DEFINITELY inappropriate? He’s starting a freaking scholarship fund. Why is this meathead reporter there asking baseball questions? Obviously not the time or place. Learn to pick your spots.
You guys need to check yourselves. The reporter was clearly in the wrong and by your word choices, you’re putting baseball ahead of much more important charitable work.
The reporter was obviously way wrong. He was using a nice occasion to pick a fight, in order to get some attention.
Agreed. What’s also disappointing is that Darragh and Anthony took the reporter’s side. They should know better.
For some history, success/wins do not equate to stability of franchises either. Was there any team more successful than the Orioles from the late 60s through the mid 80s? (both in regular and post-season). Yet in 1979, as the Orioles were on their way to 102 wins and the 7th game of the WS, serious talk for a while was that the 1980 home schedule would be split between Memorial and RFK. Edward Bennett Williams, being from DC, put an end to that by announcing that the Orioles would play all of 1980 at Memorial, but with MLB labor unrest and Memorial crumbling, some pressure began to be applied to get a new stadium or else. That escalated very quickly after the Colts disappeared in the middle of the night in March 1984. That action did finally prompt the state and the city to get it together and with an (always) angry Mayor/Governor Schaeffer putting his full weight behind things… by 1988 Camden Yards was a go plus some renovations were done to Memorial in 1984-85 (mostly luxury boxes).
Had the Colts not left – they felt pressed into a corner because the state was about to impose eminent domain on the team – would Baltimore/MSA finally have gotten it together to secure the Orioles? The original agreement I think was a 20 year lease in 1992 for Camden Yards.
This all going on while the Orioles had a 5 year run as probably the best overall team in baseball from 1979-83 (2 seasons 100+ wins, 2 WS appearances, in contention until final days for the division in all 3 other seasons they didn’t win the East).
While the Ravens might be one of the best-run and marketed franchises in all of sports given being located in Baltimore, let’s also remember that Baltimore was unable to keep an NBA team and unable to attract an NHL team.
Crime is also not a new problem. Baltimore cracked 300 murders in a year for the first time in 1991. It also has been among the top 10 (if not #1 or #2) in violent crime per capita stats going back to the 80s. The difference is that for a long time it was largely kept out of certain areas like Harborplace, Camden Yards, and wealthy neighborhoods, while now at best you have your head on a swivel everywhere (if not asking for it). A lot of the “decrease” in crime from 2000-09 came from statistical massaging where a lot of things were not reported or downgraded on paper for the benefit of Martin O’Malley and company.
Billionaire to poor inner city with declining tax base….build me a stadium or else.
I watched that event. He told Connolly “you can see the books NEXT WEEK.” I bet Connolly is still waiting…..