The Angels have sent David Fletcher through outright waivers, tweets Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register. The infielder remains in the organization but lost his spot on the 40-man roster.
It’s the result of a sharp downturn in production from Fletcher. The Loyola Marymount product looked like a core organizational piece a few years ago. Los Angeles signed him to a five-year contract extension two Aprils back. It was a $26MM guarantee that bought out one free agent year and contained club options for two more. The hope was they’d secured an excellent defensive middle infielder with roughly league average offense.
Fletcher signed that deal on the heels of a .319/.376/.425 showing during the abbreviated 2020 season. While that was built on an unsustainable .348 average on balls in play, it brought his career line to .292/.346/.386 in just shy of 1200 plate appearances. Fletcher never hit for power but demonstrated elite contact skills and played plus defense at second base.
Unfortunately for the Halos, the righty-swinging Fletcher has seen a significant drop in his offensive production for the past couple seasons. He put up only a .262/.297/.324 line across 665 plate appearances in 2021. The following year proved challenging both from a performance and health perspective. Fletcher was nagged early in the season by a hip strain that eventually sent him to the 60-day injured list. He got into 61 games, hitting .255/.288/.333. He’d been off to a 2-16 start through this year’s first couple weeks.
Fletcher’s contact skills have remained elite. His walks have dipped the past couple years, though, and he hasn’t gotten good results on batted balls. Going back to 2021, he carries a .258/.292/.323 line in just over 900 trips to the plate. Even with continued strong grades as a keystone defender, the lackluster offense led the Angels to look elsewhere this winter. The Halos brought in Gio Urshela and Brandon Drury to add some offensive punch to the infield. They called up top shortstop prospect Zach Neto on Saturday, announcing at the time they’d optioned Fletcher back to Triple-A Salt Lake.
In conjunction with that move, they apparently also placed Fletcher on waivers. It’s no surprise he didn’t get claimed. Any team that added him would’ve had to taken on his contract. Fletcher is making $6MM both this season and next. He’ll make $6.5MM in 2025 and is due at least a $1.5MM buyout on the ’27 option. For any club to take on the nearly $20MM in guaranteed money given Fletcher’s recent struggles would have been unlikely.
There’s surely some amount of strategy in the Halos’ timing of the outright. Any player with over three years of major league service time can refuse an outright assignment in favor of minor league free agency. However, players with between three and five years of service would have to forfeit any remaining guaranteed money on their contract to do so.
Fletcher entered the 2023 campaign with four years and 111 days of big league service. A player gets a full service year at 172 days, so Fletcher needed 61 days on the MLB roster this year to crack that threshold. Had he still been in the majors into early June, he’d have had the right to elect free agency while collecting the rest of his salary if the Halos wanted to take him off their 40-man roster.
By timing the outright before then, the Angels ensure Fletcher sticks in the organization. He’s obviously not going to pass on nearly $20MM in guaranteed money. He’ll accept the assignment to Salt Lake and try to hit his way back onto the major league radar.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
This really is a WOW!
His contract wasn’t really touchable for other teams.
I’ve always rooted for Fletch. He trains where my son trains and is awesome with the kids.
His sharp decline is definitely disappointing. And while it sucks not having him on the squad, you see why once again the Angels are a .500 team. Rendon is a shell of his former self, a rookie is playing SS, Rengifo and Drury are kicking balls at 2B, and Jake Lamb is trying to resurrect his career at 1B.
And the beat goes on……..
Is it a sharp decline or is it an injury?
I really don’t know. But that last full month he played he hit 299 and it was a typical Fletch month.
He was injured last year and didn’t get a real spring training, playing in the WBC. When he gets back to speed, he will be awesome again.
Angels are a hot mess, eh?
His typical month is .277/.323/.358/.681 with an 86 OPS+. Those are his career averages. He hasn’t been as good as those averages in 2+ years.
Whether its a sharp decline or injuries, he has not been able to hit at all since 2020 and other than the 49 games he played in a 60 game season, Fletch has never had a season where he was even league average.
The point is Fletch has never been awesome as a hitter. He has never even been average. He had a short stretch of less than 2 months in 2020 when there were no fans in the stands and everyone’s stats were blown all to heck and back that he hit well. Other than that short stretch, for his career he is a more than 20% worse than average hitter. A 79 OPS+ in 1869 PA over parts of 5 seasons
If you are talking about 2020, according to Stark of The Athletic, nearly half of the players in MLB were 40% or more above or below their career averages during that very strange shortened season. If you threw out the stats for every player from that season you would have a better understanding of what their true performance levels really are.
I can’t take it anymore…
I’m not sure the Angels are the brightest organization, but the next move is to trade Rengifo and promote Fletch as a utility infielder.
Hopefully they can find a sucker to take Rengifo and get a minor bullpen prospect,
I don’t think you will ever see Fletcher on the Angels again unless he takes the outright assignment and absolutely tears up AAA for a prolonged period. He just can’t hit at MLB level.
Again, if the Angels are smart enough to trade Rengifo, Fletch will be up again.
ONLY performance with the bat over an extended period n AAA will get Fletcher back on a major league field. Fletcher has to prove he can hit first.
Post it on another article why don’tcha
Do you know who was playing late in the game today as a defensive replacement? Rengifo.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Stick to the Padres.
Fletcher is perhaps the best defensive second baseman the Angels have had since Bobby Grich. As a utility infielder and late defensive substitution, he’s light years better than Rengifo.
Cant be true cause Bauer’s money is still on the dodgers ledger. Along with Heyward for the cubs
Yo 11, we know dislike for Rengifo already. But Rengifo is decent at 2b. His defensive liabilities are mainly because of his throws across the diamond, he fields fine.
Bottom line with Neto here, 2b will be mainly his position when he plays sparingly, which is fine.
I don’t dislike him as a person. I dislike him as a player. And I’ve explained over and over again why I dislike him as a player.
For the reasons I discussed, I would much rather have Fletcher in that role than Rengifo.
And Rengifo’s crossover step is really bad, which limits his range. I’d much rather have Fletcher there. I can only hope the Angels feel the same way.
Should be a robust market for a guy making $2.3 million with a 0.3 career fWAR in 336 games.
if he gets to play 2b mostly his offense will come back.
I’m not expecting a robust market. But if the Angels demoted him tomAAA, someone would take him. The Angels need to figure out who.
Put him on waivers. The. Pull him back if someone claims him.
No one took Fletcher. What does that say if Rengifo would have a market? The difference in $ is simply not that much.
Yes let’s get rid of Rengifo for a player who has steadily declined and can’t stay healthy, not to mention does more drinking than prepping for baseball in the
off-season. Or course you can’t see that because your head is firmly planted between his cheeks kissing his ass. Fletcher is done. Stick to ballet or another sport you don’t know Jack about
the business of baseball.
Pads fan, I think there’s a big difference in pay. One player is guaranteed almost 20m thru 2025, and the other could be cut at anytime for 2m or less moving forward.
That said, the Angels made the right move simply because, Fletcher easily passed thru waivers, and I don’t believe Rengifo would.
If Neto hits, then Fletcher will languish in the minors until he learns to hit and is then traded.
Fletch has never hit well other than in 2020 and this year he was just abysmal. Since 2020 his exit velocity and hard hit ball rates have cratered. His 69 OPS+ and 2.6 WAR in 226 games since the start of 2021 is the 3rd worst of infielders with 200+ games played over that period. Simply put, he has been terrible. It was time to demote him regardless of how much money he is owed.
Now the Angels at least have a player at SS with a shot at both hitting and playing good defense. It seems like since 2019 we have had one or the other, usually defense, but never both. The last time we had one was in 2018. That is a long time. I sincerely want this kid Neto to hit well and from Nevin’s comments it looks like he will have an extended shot to prove that he can.
Rengifo showed too much promise with the bat last season for him to be traded just to call up a guy that has shown for 2+ seasons that he can’t hit.
For Fletcher to get called back up he is going to have to show he can hit. Not just for a week or two, for a long stretch of time. Then someone is either going to have to get hurt bad enough to go on the 60 day or play badly enough in order to be DFA’d to clear a 40 man roster spot for him. No one wants either of those things to happen and if it does the Angels are probably not winning.
Wait. You said Rengifo can’t play defense. So why was he in as a defensive replacement?
MLB players have to be able to HIT. Fletch can’t. Regardless of how good their defense is, they can’t be in the bottom 3 in hitting and keep a job in the majors. Fletch is not coming back until he can hit. That means he probably never will come back. That is the sad reality of the situation.
Injuries have derailed Fletcher’s career. He is likely never to be the same player he was pre-injuries.
Average cost per WAR is $8.5M. Fletch has a career WAR of 10. He has outperformed anything the Angels will pay him. As far as bad deals are concerned, this one is relatively tame especially considering the Angel’s history.
You may want to take a look at Statcast. Rengifo’s range is about league average, so if his crossover step is limiting it, imagine how good he will be with a little more time at 2B where he is going to be playing most of the time from this point on.
Obviously, the Angels don’t feel the same way. Even though they owe him $14 million, they not only DFA’d Fletch, they outrighted him off the 40 man roster.
They see what all the rest of us see. Fletch can’t hit. His rankings in the bottom 3 in baseball in OPS+, wRC+, exit velocity, hard hit ball %, BB% and overall lack of being able to successfully hit a baseball among guys with at least 200 games played in 2021 to 2023 is ample evidence, He couldn’t even hit in spring training against minor league pitchers.
We get that you have an unbridled passion for Fletch, but even casual Angels fans can see that he is hurting the team.
Fletch is guaranteed $14 million. $6 million this season. $6.5 million next season. And a $1.5 million buyout on an $8 million option for 2026.
Rengifo is still in arbitration. This was his first year of arb eligibility and he has 2 more to come. Arb eligible players are not guaranteed anything. If he repeats 2022, he would probably make around $4.5 in 2024 and around $7.0 in 2025 before reaching FA.
If Rengifo plays well enough to be traded at the trade deadline, the difference would be about $2 million.
You think Rengifo can play defense?
There are still some of you left?
Since 2020. According to statcast, Fletcher has been the best defensive player on the Angels, and it’s not close. Rengifo has been the worst, and it’s not close.
As far as Rengifo showing potential. That’s why he suck the first 3rd of 2022 and the last 3rd of 22.
You may want to look at statcast.
Since 2o2o, Fletcher 15 outs above average. Rengifo -20 outs less than average.
Statcast. Has Rengifo the second worst defender on the Angels in 2020, and the worst is 2021 and 2022 and so far the worst in 2023.
Why people are putting so ,unchecked stock in one fluke month last July is beyond me.
Hey 11, No one questions that Fletcher is a better defender. He is a fan favorite as well. I think the Neto call up is premature and that he will struggle. Perry’s personnel choices continue to baffle me. I really hope this is his last year as a GM in Anaheim.
If Rengifo was sent through waivers instead of Fletcher, he would have been picked up by another organization. Rengifo hits lefties well with some pop and should be platooned at best.
If it were me I would play Urshela everyday and rotate Drury, Rengifo and Neto based on matchups. Drury plays 1B when not at 2B until Walsh comes back. I think the Halos should consider giving Thaiss some time at 1B over Lamb as well. Thaiss has great OBP and had a solid Spring.
No one takes stock in months of play except you. People that actually understand never look at small sample sizes. They look at seasons and trends over multiple seasons.
Fletcher has a 69 OPS+ since the beginning of the 2021 season, a stretch of 226 games played, and 86 OPS for his career. All of those are below league average and he is trending down.
Rengifo had a 102 OPS+ for last season and a 81 OPS+ for his career. He is trending up.
That you don’t understand the basics of how teams look at statistics but continue to comment is more than a little sad.
You can always pull back someone you put on waivers.
“No one takes stock in months of play except you.”
Except who? I’ve been discounting Rengifo’s one great month for awhile Eck was good over 6 calendar baseball months, and was ood the last full month he played.
So what’s the anomaly, the last two months of 2021 or the seven months he was healthy?
And I don’t think Fletcher is a good hitter. But when you bat 300 in totality in 7 out of 9 months. I think that says something.
Dude, you just proved what he said. You are the only one harping about months. No one in the game does that. Fletcher had a 84 OPS+ for his career and got much, much worse the last 2 season plus the beginning of 2023. Give it up. If he was good enough to be on the team, he would be.
I don’t like your tone, son.
Knock it off.
You think a batting average of over 300 in totality of seven of the last full months nine months he played irrelevant.
I don’t. But regardless that’s a lot more than just the 2020,season.
If you have to cherry pick months out of 3 seasons you are grasping at straws. 69 OPS+ since the beginning of 2021 season says it all.
While the Angels are being PC about sending him down, its clear that he has no part in the future of the team because they outrighted him off the 40 man roster.
Your mancrush is gone and he is not coming back.
The way Drury, Lamb, and Rengifo aren’t hitting, I’m sure we will see him sooner rather than later. If the Angels are smart they release Drury and bring Fletcher back up.
Let’s worry about Soto not hitting and Tatis hitting the roids why don’t cha. Stick to your team, you are in the wrong forum.
Fletcher barely got playing time this season and missed most of last season. He just needs to get back in rhythm and for that happen, you need playing time. They were going with Lamb, Drury, and Rengifo more and those guys are slumping bad. Fletcher needs his at bats in AAA and he will be back up.
Actually Drury, Lamb, and Thaiss are hurting this team. Outside of 1 good game Lamb had. Fletcher is fine.
I wouldn’t play Drury at all. As a matter of fact, I would release him. He had 1 good season and now he can’t hit. And Thaiss is absolutely awful hitting and his defense has been an absolute liability this season. I would bring up Wallach til Stassi gets back. Thaiss def needs to go.
The Yankees unintentionally walked Thaiss yesterday twice. I believe Thaiss was 0-for 2023 at the time. As a Yankee fan I was smoked.
Having said that, I’m listening on KLAA radio. The Angels announcers beat the Yankees’ nine ways from Sunday.
Meanwhile Drury, Lamb, and Thaiss are still on the team. Lol.
Fletcher can’t hit major league pitching, the Angels don’t have the luxury of carrying a player who cat hit just for defensive purposes. They have enough players to play the infield they don’t need Fletcher.
Phillips can’t hit worth beans and they have him because he is good in the dugout mail jokes
Fletcher boozes it up?
The Angels would be suckers to bring up Fletcher he was batting .125. The Angels are not that good, but Fletcher sure doesn’t add any value to the team
He is hitting a robust .143 with a .486 OPS in AAA so far. In a league where pitchers have a combined 5.66 ERA, Fletcher can’t hit his weight.
Drury is on a two year deal and has a 111 OPS+ the from 2021 through today. Fletcher had a 69 OPs+. Drury has been 42% better. Even this season he has been substantially better. Not saying he has been good because a 33 OPS+ is bad, it’s just 63% better than the -30OPS+ Fletcher was producing when they canned his behind.
Given the choice, it’s Drury every day and twice on Sunday.
Rengifo, 65 OPS+ and improving day to day. His .214 BAbip on the day that Fetcher should have shown you that he was not hitting terribly, he was very unlucky. His 87 OPS+ the last week is an indication that the Angels decision to keep him and send Flether to SLC was a good one. He is never going to be an .800 OPS hitter, but he will be around league average by the end of the season.
Lamb is just plain an awful player. Meh to bad defense and the last time he had a full season of hitting well was 2016-2017. He is still producing at a 73% better clip at the plate than Fletcher was. That has to tell you just how bad Fletcher was.
That you feel the need to try to deflect to Tatis and Soto shows you know you are wrong about Fletcher. If not you would stick to the facts and the facts are that Fletcher cannot hit.
ALL of those guys were hitting better than Fletcher when he was canned. Not by a small amount either 60-70% better. His main competitor for playing time, Rengifo, has improved at the plate since then,
Fletcher has had sufficient at bats over the past 2 seasons plus spring training and the first few weeks of 2023 to show that his hitting was at least progressing. From 2021-2023 he put up a 69 OPS+ over 200+ games. He was the worst hitting 2B in MLB. Instead of progressing, he back slid into the worst production of his career. That pathetic batting line he had for the Angels has gotten worse in AAA since he was outrighted.
Unless he makes a complete 180 in the next few weeks, he will never make it back to the show.
This still bugs me. Fletcher must have mouthed off to management or something to be kicked to the curb. Maybe something to do with opting to play for England in the WBC? It just doesn’t add up.
nosake, it’s pretty simple and has nothing to do with the WBC. Fletcher has produced a 69 OPS+ since the start of 2021. He was bad in spring training and most of his plate appearances were against minor league pitchers. Once the season started, he was historically bad. a -30 OPS+.
As far as I can tell, Fletcher didn’t play in the WBC at all. He is definitely not listed on the roster for the Great Britian team. https://www.mlb.com/world-baseball-classic/roster/great-britain
My bad. It was Italy.
Thanks. Couldn’t find him in overall stats and then not on GB. His numbers in the WBC were pretty bad. .200/.238/.250/.488.
Add that to his 69 OPS+ since the beginning of the 2021 season and a bad spring training and his bat really has no redeeming factors. It’s no wonder he was cut from the 40-man roster.
If he doesn’t want to end up a cautionary tale, he needs to really pick up the pace in Salt Lake. His .211/.286/.368/.654 in a AAA league where average is producing a .263/.367/.445/.812 line is not going to get him a ticket back to Anaheim.
Especially when both Drury and Rengifo have started hitting better the last week or so. Since Fletcher was outrighted off the 40-man, Drury has produced .280/.308/.600/.908 and Rengifo .263/.391/.316/.707. If they keep improving their overall lines, Fletcher will have a large mountain to climb to get back to the majors.
Honestly, it’s very smart for the angels to do this now. No one is claiming that contract atm. But if he gets back to his old ways for 3 months in AAA and then the angels try to outright, someone may decide he’s worth the 12M gamble
Nobody will claim him if he goes on a tear in AAA. He will have to prove it in the big leagues again first with the Angels if he forces his way back onto the 40.
… you do know we said the same thing, right?
“But… if… then” is *really* basic formal logic…
Actually, you didn’t. You said “gets back to his old ways for 3 months in AAA” and trog said “He will have to prove it in the big leagues again first”.
That’s a crucial difference. It is really unlikely that anyone will buy into any PCL stats from a 28 y.o. And the Angels cannot (yet) afford to leave him on the roster to prove himself at the MLB level.
There’s always the Miami Marlins.
And maybe Billy Bean will point at Pete.
If he can hit in SLC for 3 months like he did in 2020, Fletcher will get called up before the ASB.
If he doesn’t, his career in the majors is probably over.
Getting 6 million a year to play AAA for the next 2+ years haha W for Fletch!
He will be buying a lot of dinners!
Being sent back on the bus is never a win for the player.
No more major league service time accrued. If he spends the next two seasons in the minors he will not be a FA at the end. He will still have 2 more seasons of arbitration.
Every Monday is travel day. On the bus. Not a chartered flight. Instead of 5 star hotels, he will be staying in the Super 8. (Yes, I am exaggerating a little there for AAA. The Chihuahuas stayed in the same Embassy Suites we did in Sacramento for their last series on the road) He will have to carry his own luggage. No more $145 per day per diem. 2 squares with the team and a couple hundred dollars a month meal stipend
Going down to the minors regardless of the salary is always a losing proposition for a player. Always.
Career wise being can be good for a player. Detmers.
And why doesn’t it not surprise me you never read Ball Four.
And yet another example that you don’t follow the Angels. Bo Belinsky wanted to get sent down. The Angels AAA team was in Hawaii.
And unless the plane is charged, I’d much rather get on a bus going Reno to Salt Lake City than LA to Boston.. Again, you ever read Ball Four? Of course not.
I read it. In fact its on the shelf next to my desk.
Being DFA’s is BAD. Being outrighted off the 40 man is worse.
That you don’t get that says everything I need to know about your lack of understanding of baseball.
If you listened to Nevin today, you know that Rengifo is not being traded. In fact, he will get more playing time. Neto will be the starting shortstop for the foreseeable future. Even if he did get called back up at some point, Fletcher is NOT going to get regular playing time.
Well you don’t remember it, otherwise you would not have made such an ignorant comment.
But ignorant comments seem to be your forte.
I’d gladly do this for $6M.!!
Emotional much? Highly-paid players dont ride on the same bus, or they upgrade the bus. You told lies all up and down this silly post made up clearly of “stuff you heard”….Always.
Even if the conditions are bad, making $6M for playing minor league baseball for 6 months sure beats sitting in a cube for 50 weeks a year. Always.
Maybe the dumbest post I have ever read. Made much worse by arrogantly doubling down with the lie “Always.”. Go read how Rusney Castillo has been living and get back to me.
The only “always” happening here is you always lying.
Step, when you think of Pads fan, think of Cliff Claven.
He may know a lot about the Padres, but when he comes on this board, he shows a tremendous amount of ignorance. And the worst part is he’s arrogant.
Yes, they do ride on the same bus for most teams. Fernando Tatis Jr was on the team bus.
Show me a single lie. You can’t.
Making $6 million for playing under exactly the conditions I described Is MUCH, MUCH worse than playing in the majors.
Lie? Not a lie, just ignorance.
Never was an insanely ignorant comment.
Halo muted me when I continually showed him he was wrong. Of course he claims others are ignorant. He’s looking in the mirror.
Show me the ignorance then. When you can’t, then apologize. Every thing thing I said is a fact.
You said he only hit for 2020. He hit the first four months of 2021 as well. That’s five months more than Rengifo.
I bet you didn’t know Fletcher had a 26 game hitting streak in 2021.
Making $6M doing anything isnt “bad” though – that is what you are positing here.
“Being sent back on the bus is never a win for the player.”
LIE. Many players elevate their game when sent down to the minors
“No more major league service time accrued. If he spends the next two seasons in the minors he will not be a FA at the end. He will still have 2 more seasons of arbitration”
Not a lie, but a useless thing to say that doesnt matter in this scenario as he is 29 and locked in at $6M a year. You do realize $3M is 60 years of $50k a year aka “retirement money”?
“Every Monday is travel day. On the bus. Not a chartered flight. Instead of 5 star hotels, he will be staying in the Super 8. (Yes, I am exaggerating a little there for AAA. The Chihuahuas stayed in the same Embassy Suites we did in Sacramento for their last series on the road) He will have to carry his own luggage. No more $145 per day per diem. 2 squares with the team and a couple hundred dollars a month meal stipend”
LIE – Youre talking about a per diem to a guy making $6M. “Have to carry his own luggage” – LIE. Rusney Castillo didn’t sleep in a Super8 he booked the best hotels and lived like a baller while playing in the minors, just like all the well-paid guys do. Maybe your SINGLE example of a guy who got suspended for PEDs who might be trying to get his rep back by taking the bus with everyone else,
“Going down to the minors regardless of the salary is always a losing proposition for a player. Always.”
LIE. LIE. LIE.
All you are doing here is using Tatis Jr as your example, which is ridiculous, Rusney Castillo is the comp you need to be making here but you aren’t because your entire post is wrong.
Some dweeb always has to make sports political.
It’s not a lie, it’s just ignorant And make no mistake, I’m claiming he’s ignorant.
Again, you are talking in months. No one except you talks about months. If you are only good in short stretches and are bad over the course of a season or multiple seasons then you are bad.
Halo saying that is the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry dude, everything he has said is correct. What you have said is total nonsense. Is Fletcher your husband? Is that why you make up nonsense to try to defend his total lack of ability to hit?
Players that have never hit well for a full season rarely elevate their games after being outrighted off the 40 man roster. You can count the ones in this century that have on one finger. Literally.
No more service time being accrued is HUGE, In just a few months the Angels would have had to pay him even if he decided not to take the outright assignment to the minors. Now, they only pay him if he plays in the minors and his chances of ever returning are slim.
I guess you just told how much is a lot of money you. I am sorry you don’t even make $50k a year. That is very pathetic. Get educated or trained so you are not struggling so bad.
$145 is the major league per diem. Its not a lie. That he makes a $6 million annual salary is beside the point.
He will have to carry his own luggage. You obviously have never stayed at the same hotel as a minor league team. They carry their own luggage in. Major league players, its already in the room when they arrive. Again, the truth.
Minor league players are not allowed to stay anywhere except where the team stays on the road. Read the new MILB CBA. Talk to ANY minor league player. They are all in the same hotel. I said I was exaggerating about Super 8, but ALL the players on the team stay where the team tells them to stay including the Padres $340 million man and Rusney Castillo. Period. Again, the truth.
If you are being sent down and outrighted off the 40 man roster you are being told you are not good enough to even be included in the 40 best for that team, tens of thousands of dollars are being taken out of your pocket, your living and playing conditions take a huge hit. You lose. That is the ultimate truth.
All you are doing here is crying because your mancrush sucks as a baseball player and got shown the door. Its really pretty pathetic that you think you have to try to defend him.
Not one lie in anything I said. Lots in what you said. Please be better.
And so is Tatis’ roids needle which is much worse than being released or anything.
It wasn’t a needle. It was a cream. Tatis will be playing in the major leagues today. Not sure where Fletcher will be playing, but it won’t be Yankee stadium.
Sure. And Tatis legacy will be tarnished
To who? You? He’s laughing all the way to the bank with his $340 million contract while you talk about legacy. And guess what, in 14 or 15 years when he retires no one will even remember this. If he keeps playing at the same level as 2021 they will just vote him into the HOF. Your hate will not be a factor either.
Lol yeah no one remembers Mcguire’s, Sosa’s, Clemens etc steroid use either. Oh wait. Are those guys in the HOF?! Even Bonds alleged use and he’s still not in the HOF. Wake up
You really are not smart if you actually believe his cream BS lie
Anyone with that much hate in them is not worth even reading.
I was fine with him before he cheated. You think he’s gonna get a lot of cheers when he comes up to bat at the stadiums. It’s gonna be as bad as the Astros boos all over again. Lol. And he deserves it.
There are people that are on here just to troll and spread hate and that add nothing to the conversation.
It makes the experience on the site so much more enjoyable to just mute them. Yes, you miss some of the downline comments that are in response to them, but you don’t have to wade through all their misinformation and hateful comments.
Stick to responding to people that are knowledgeable about the game and civil. I need to get better about doing that too.
Or just not have padres fans on an Angels topic. This is clearly about the Angels not about any other team or their fans.
Again, with the personal attack at the end you proves I am right and you keep doubling down and lying all up and down in your post here. You cant answer me because you are purely wrong, plain and simple. Max Muncy says hello. JD Martinez says hello. Justin Turner says hello. You dont know ball. Be better stop resorting to personal attacks and answer me without lying. You have not proved that one time in any of your comments here, @Pads Fans – you dont know ball. Period. Learn more before talking.
and everyone who cares about Tatis’s “tainted legacy” will be dead by the time he retires. Move on.
The HOF? You mean the place that put BUD SELG in??
The HOF is a garbage institution that has left out a majority of the games greatest players because of racism and personal vindictive scrub hack sportswriters. Put in every player who had a career WAR of 40+. Those were all great players for the game at some point. Screw it. Sick of this dumb tiny HOF that baseball has for no reason.
you are not really smart if you think baseball players doing PEDs even does anything other than keep players healthy and on the field. People who hate PEDs love seeing Ken Griffey Jr’s Reds career, they WANT that horrible reality for ALL players. Dumbest thing ESPN propagandized the entire MLB fanbase for a decade over.
Going to say this slowly for you..
PEDS…make…the game….better!!!! We get to watch the players perform!!!!
Who Pete Rose who is banned? Who steroid guys who dont deserve to be in. What black guys have they left out? You are reaching here
Yeah, you cant reply to me honestly without resorting to personal attacks. No idea why you of all people are writing these high horse essays where you spout lies about the fantasy world you live in as its my reality too. Nope. You are in your own world here. You made up “the life of the millionaire minor leaguer” out of thin air, just to prove me wrong. Gross. Get better at posting.
Everyone with a career WAR over 40 should be in the HOF and the HOF is a much better, higher quality organization for it. There’s 100s of Negro Leagues and international players who need to be there to.
Lmfao it’s harmful to your body hence why it’s illegal. If you really think they deserve to be in speak to someone that was clean while in that Era .
You called me a liar when you were the one lying. Then you try to spin it? Typical.
I have had enough of your lying and attempts at insults. You are the Tucker Carlson of this board and I don’t have to see either of your lies and hateful comments.
Well look at his name not even about baseball
Now, imagine all of that to make less than the federal minimum wage!
In my mid twenties, I would have taken that gig every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I didn’t start making good money until my late 20s.
Pretty sad when you talk about another man’s salary. You can do better than that.
In my mid twenties, I would have taken that gig every day of the week
Same here. I probably made more $$$ than them, but your 20s is when you want to take chances. If I had to do it all over again, and still have my current life, I’d have added up columns of numbers for the Yankees (despite my hatred for them) and tried to rise up.
If we talked more about all our salaries maybe we would all stop getting our wages stolen by the billionaires and CEO class.
In AAA they now are above that line, but the other levels still are not.
DD get this man!
Stott and Turner aren’t good enough for you?
Angels done gone to the medicine cabinet and got out the Fletchers Castoria.
He may never make it back as Moreno will use this as a way to lower his luxury tax payroll. Didn’t the Red Sox banish Rusney Castillo to AAA and the Yankees did the same with Igawa, and never called them back to avoid the luxury tax hit?
I get the Moreno bad man narrative but this seems purely performance based.
Sure, as it was with Castillo and Igawa. The problem for those players is it’s difficult to make it back. So, yes, performance based, but his return could be finance based. I hope I’m wrong. Unlike the other two, he at least has had good years.
If Fletcher shows he can dominate AAA with the bat for a few months and there is an injury, he might be called back up.
Its telling that the Angels believe that a prospect that has never played above AA will provide better performance than a guy they have committed to paying millions.
This part of Blum’s piece in the Athletic on Fletcher being demoted said it all for me. https://theathletic.com/4415224/2023/04/15/blum-why-the-angels-called-up-zach-neto-and-what-the-bold-move-reveals/
“The Angels do not have a prototypical shortstop. Fletcher was the closest fit to one, but his offense has dropped so dramatically. He’s 2-for-16 this year and hasn’t hit the ball hard. He does not hit for power and rarely walks. He’s listed in the bottom 25th percentile for sprint speed. …The Angels wanted an everyday shortstop who can hit and play defense.”
Obviously, Fletcher cannot do both right now or he would still be an Angel. Maybe he can pull it together in SLC.
Nevin said much more before the game today. Before the season he felt he had to rotate guys in and out of the SS position because none of his options could both play defense and hit.
Then Fletcher continued to hit poorly for the 3rd straight season and Neto continued to tear it up at AA. Nevin said Neto gave them an option that had the possibility of both playing solid defense and hitting.
He also said that he was looking forward to seeing how the infield responds with more consistent playing time positionally around the horn.
If Neto can hit at the major league level, Fletcher has very little chance of playing for the Angels again.
0 for 8.
1 for 13.
“The Angels do not have a prototypical shortstop. Fletcher was the closest fit to one, ….The Angels wanted an everyday shortstop who can hit and play defense.”
That was my mantra the entire winter. I think the Angels did okay with a couple of low-level moves, but they were in need of a SS, and probably a closer.
I said the same thing with DD last year. When you are a big-market $220M team that projects to .500-.525, you might as well become a $250M team with a shot at the playoffs.
Either that or become a $150M and pocket the extra $70M. Reference Mr. Miyaga and the middle of the road.
Problem is Neto needed more time. June or July would’ve work, and to keep lamb over him doesn’t make sense. The problem is the bullpen if anyone should be kicked of the 40 man it’s loup.
Maybe Neto needed more time. I’m not disputing your statement. We just don’t know yet.
But the Angels absolutely needed someone at short who could could catch the ball.
3 for 19.
I’m not sure it’s performance based, it rotten roster construction based. Rengifo and Fletcher are redundant pieces, You don’t need both and Rengifo is out of options. If the Angels were a smart club, they’d prefer Fletch.
This is the same redundancy with Suarez, Davidson and Barria. Perry made similar mistakes with the pen this year.
Perry seems to make this mistake a lot.
He’s struggled at the plate the last two seasons and is off to a slow start again.
Take out the shortened 2020 season and Fletcher has a 79 wRC+. Its performance based. He can’t hit.
69 OPS+ from 2021 to 2023.
And over 300 with a good OBP the first four months of 2021.
A .682 OPS and 84 OPS+ the first 4 months of 2021. Well below league average. He had 4 good weeks from mid June to early July. Then he fell off a cliff.
He had a .581 OPS on June 12th before he went on his short little hot streak and finished the season at .622. Fletcher had a terrible 2021.
We know you you have a hard on for him, but Fletcher showed that he can’t hit over and over and over. Why do you keep trying to come up with something to justify your point when it’s not going to change anyone’s mind. He sucks. They DFA’d your BFF and he’s not coming back unless he somehow learns to hit after a career of not being able to do that. Face the facts.
Months. How did the season turn out. Oh yeah, a 70 OPS+. You cannot try to spin it. He cannot hit.
That loophole was closed.
Good to hear, although how’d they close it? Is his salary still counted against the luxury tax payroll even if he’s off the 40-man?
His salary is no longer counted against the CBT payroll once he is off the 40 man roster.
According to spotrac, $5.2 million of Fletcher’s salary will be included in the luxury tax calculation.
Another reason not to use Spotrac. AAV includes all guaranteed money. Fletcher has a $1.5 million buyout of an $8 million option that is guaranteed. That means he had $27.5 million guaranteed or a $5.5 million AAV.
Once he is outrighted off the 40 man roster, only the prorated portion of that AAV is counted against 2023 CBT and nothing is counted after that as long as he is not on the 40 man.
If he stays in the Angels organization they are still paying the $14 million he is owed, but its not counting towards the CBT.
Maybe Moreno will make a trade at the deadline since he now has over $5 million more room under the CBT.
I believe if he doesn’t reach the majors again he will become a free agent at the end of the season.
Angels will still owe the majority of the contract though.
David Bote was in a similar situation with the Cubs. He took the minor league assignment after not being claimed since he’d lose the contract if he elected free agency. So he’s stuck in AAA through the 2024 (Club has an option for two more years).
If he doesn’t reach the majors again he will not be a FA even when his contract with the Angels is up after 2025. He won’t have the service time. He will still have 2 more years of arbitration eligibility.
The Angels also hold two option years on him in 2026-2027 with a $1.5 million buyout. If they buy him out of the first option for 2026, then maybe. I am not sure of the rules in that situation. I just know that until that point the Angels control him and he can’t become a FA.
The Angels could pick up the $8 million options each year and keep him in AAA in 2026 and 2027, but that would be expensive and petty.
if he’s still in AAA when his contract ends, the halos won’t tender him a contract (arb minimum is 80% of previous year’s salary). so he will avoid arbitration and be free to sign a minor league deal with anybody
Off the roster?…That’s really rough; dod Fletch get drunk and insult somebody’s wife at a team cocktail party or what?
He got hurt and can’t hit anymore.
Actually he has never hit in a normal season. Only in 2020.
Jerry Dipoto has just went into cardiac arrest. This guy hits in Seattle like crazy
He plays second; Wong has struggled and Moore is hurt
This guy will be a Mariner before Thursday
Count on it
I’m shocked at how bad Wong has been. Moore is close to returning. Not sure even Dipoto will take on that contract.
I’m not. DiPoto should have been following Wong’s trajectory and known he’s been in a downward spiral for 3 years. Cards saw this and cut bait. Brewers made him available for a reason. He sucks, and that’s not gonna change. Trust me when I say that I hate to say this, but Toro would have been a better option, and I’ve been a Toro hater for years.
DiPoto always does this (I believe it’s the 3rd time…..maybe more).
I wrote it when he started his “Reimagining” that included making trades from his hospital bed…..
He has a crummy roster. He makes worldwind moves, including bringing in some name players and publicized prospects. The team improves. The next year the makes even more moves. The team improves again. The next year there are still weak spots that need to be shored up – but he’s traded away his decent prospects and his payroll is pretty much maxed out. Now he needs to make some smart, savvy moves. But he doesn’t know how, and has nothing to work with.
The same thing the White Sox did in their so-called rebuild.
And exactly what the Orioles are not doing and should not do.
Kolten Wong for Javier Baez.
Aside from the money, that’s a pretty fair trade.
He hits Mariner pitching like crazy.
Fletcher’s contribution will be most be defensively. He is likely a ..250 predominately singles hitter at best. Fletcher would be an upgrade over Wong since he can still provide a positive contribution defensively, but I am not sure if the M’s are willing to commit $15M for Fletcher whom is due $6 and $6.5M owed the next 2 years and has 2 options with a $1.5M buyout per.
No. He’s he’s a 300 single hitter at best. Not to say that will ever happen again. But when you bat 300 for over 600 ABs, then that is at best.
Just to add, the last time Fletcher played a full month he hit 299
Renigfo is a bad defensive player. If people don’t know this by now, no data will convince them otherwise.
Fletcher has had a number of months where he hit 300 and was a helpful offensive piece. No one disputes he plays great defense.
Reningfo has had one good month and other-than that month has not been helpful to the offense. Rengifo has had one month with over 100 PAs and a 300 OBP. Ironically, if you lower the threshold, he’s had three. The other two were in 2019. He is, who he is. He’s a defense liability with big swing and miss, who occasional runs into a pitch.
That’s why I prefer Fletcher.
Oooooooo. A full month. Wow!
Are you serious?
You do realize that Rengifo had an entire FULL SEASON over league average, right?
Fletcher has never done that. Other than the 49 games in 2020.
DiPoto had a chance to claim him. He didn’t. It’s doubtful that he will trade for him now.
Mgmt and coaches, top&down hitting my radar of shame
Smart move by the Angels. No one was going to claim him at the salary.
Now trade Rengifo, and then make Fletcher a utility infielder.
The job of a utility infielder is to be a good glove at short and second, run a bit, and be a pesky hitter. Fletcher checks that box Rengifo doesn’t.
Very little chance that he will ever see the big league club again. He is 60 days shy of 5 years of service time which will enable him to refuse minor league assignments and keep the money. The Angels have to pay him anyway, so I am betting they would rather see him rot in AAA instead of them paying him to play for someone else.
Very little chance? If the Angels are stupid, there is a very little chance.
Since 2022, Fletcher plus four outs above average, Rengifo -4 outs above average. As a shortstop. Fletcher 4 outs above average, Rengifo -2 outs above average.
As a Utility infielder, Fletcher is better. Fletcher can fill in.
So if th3 Angels are stupid, which they may be, you are right.
Why must it be one or the other though? The decision for one does not have to be based on what happens to the other. They can rot Fletcher away in the minors like so many other early career extensions that flopped AND get rid of Rengifo and get any number of utility players to take the spot. There are usually 1-2 of those guys DFA’d every week throughout the league.
To bad so expensive would be nice fit for Oakland. They’re good at reviving careers.
He has crooked family here in Houston. They are nothing but trouble. Maybe feeling the crunch.
Third A’s would really like to chat with that person who keeps leaving two fans comment. A’s organization 3 most World Series and in playoffs every three to four years. Just imagine if we had the Giants payroll how good we would be. Just using Giants as an example.
A’s won some of those WS in Philadelphia. Always had good teams, but shiddy businessmen running the team
They still do.
So the only time Fletcher was any good with the bat was in the shortened 2020 season? Guess that is why he will no longer be an Angel
No. The end of July 2021, he was hitting 307 with a 334 OBP.
So the anomaly, for the most part, was 2022.
He’s a darn good utility infielder, spot starter. The problem is they have that blocked by a player who has only had one good month…Rengifo.
You obviously don’t follow the Angels, you’d be wise to show a little humility. I don’t go on the Padres board and post ignorant stuff.
You mean Fletcher hasn’t been good for the entire back half of 2021 and all of 2022 and the start of 2023, right? It’s not just 2022…
July-Sept 2021: 240/278/311/589
Aug+ Sept 2021: 184/235/228/463
Maybe you need to stop lecturing on humility and get a dose of reality. He’s been consistently horrible since August 2021
Fletcher wore down the last two months of 2022. And of course he was hurt in 2022. And of course his few ABs in 2023 are meaningless.
But his role would be Utility infielder, late inning defensive replacement.. Unlike Rengifo, That’s a role he’s suited to play.
Excuse. After excuse. After excuse. He’s not an eight year old playing with teenagers. He’s a grown man. Call it like it is
Call what like it is? Is that to me?
Yeah 11, I’m not sure who else it would be to…
Angels made a bad deal. Fletcher has proven to be a flash in the pan with the bat
When this deal was made, I’m the only one who questioned this deal.
And when did I say it was a good deal? Where am I not calling it like it is? Your not calling it like it is.
Rengifo is making 2 million dollars, at that’s a bad deal too. He’s a non-tender candidate.
when he played 2b steadily he hit well. it is when he had to stretch out for ss his offense went down.
No. He didn’t. He ONLY hit well in 2020. Other than that he has been absolutely terrible with the bat.
You’ve been constantly saying you want him on the Angels, in a reserve role. You’ve said he is good enough to hold a spot. I never said you said they made a good deal. But you still want him on the roster, no?
I’m saying his bat is so bad it doesn’t make up for a good not amazing glove. We can disagree on that, that’s an opinion, but he’s making 6M to go to AAA so, I think the Angels agree with me.
I’m calling it exactly like it is, halo
Halo11 – While I don’t agree with everything, Flech was better than a first look at his 22 stats. He was playing injured a number of those games. The worst was when he came back late in the year and was hitting good until he was HBP. He could not swing the bat anymore , but could play defense so he was kept on the team and had to take every pitch or bunt. That can bring down your numbers pretty quick.
Hey Pads Fan. Fletch has a 26 game hitting streak in 2021 and was batting over 300 going into Aug.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
I’m hoping you know Padres baseball, you don’t know much about Angel baseball or baseball in general..
How is that not telling it like it is?
Let me sum up and make this as simple as I can. Fletcher is a Punch and Judy hitter who outside of six months has shown no sustained ability to help you with the bat,
Rengifo is a swing for the fences hitter, who outside of one month has shown no sustained ability to help you with the bat.
Since Fletcher is a very good fielder and Rengifo is a very bad fielder, I’d rather have Fletcher.
That’s my position. That has been my position, and that will be my position until new data suggests I should change my position.
Are you saying he was terrible the last two months of 2021. I agree.
Are you saying he wasn’t a help to the offense in 2020 and through July in 2021. I think that’s absurd.
So dispute the point I’m making, and not the perverted point I’m not making.
For the most part he hit for six consecutive baseball months.
Just to add. I love it how people are disagreeing with me regarding opinions I do not have or have expressed.
Agreed he can play a role like Phillips, and take lambs spot. He can play everywhere. Play the diamond and corner outfield and just keep rengifo at 2nd
Two things, a utility infielder that can only play second base is not a utility infielder.
Fletcher is a good defensive second baseman, Renigifo is a bad one.
Outs above average, just in the last year. Regnifo is -4 at second. Fletcher is +4.
A whole 26 games? Better give him the batting title then!
He had a 70 OPS+ for the season. 30% under league average. Of players with at least 550 PA, only Kevin Newman was worse in ALL OF BASEBALL. Regardless of what he did in small sample size theater, he absolutely and completely sucked with the bat that season.
That you even think that a stretch of less than a month gives ANY indication of talent as a hitter is laughable. Actually its sad.
Even his defense couldn’t pull him out of Suckdom that year as his WAR was 25% below league average. He was literally the worst 2B in the majors that season.
I know BASEBALL. Period. Obviously, you don’t. That is all.
Aragon, Fletcher played 2B almost exclusively in 2021. 142 out of 157 games. He had a 70 OPS+. He did not hit well. He was terrible. Awful. Horrid. Putrid. Just plain bad at hitting. Literally the worst hitting 2B in MLB.
That’s three things.
Fletch has a 69 OPS+ since the start of the 2021 season. Only 2 guys that have at least 200 gams played in the infield that have hit worse. He has been terrible at the plate.
The end of July 2021, he was hitting 307 with a 334 OBP.
That’s with a BABIP of .337. Once that reverts back to .300, the OPS reverts back to .640.
Joe, Did Fletch hit for the first four months of 2021 and the short season of 2022? Of course he did. That’s history. This clown said he only hit for two months, that’s ignorant.
Now are you saying Fletch is not a good hitter, well he certainly hasn’t been for well over a year.
Rengifo has been a good hitter for one month and a bad fielder his entire career. Fletcher had a stretch of being a good hitter for six months, and is a very good fielder his entire career. I’d much rather have Fletcher in that role.
Which is exactly what his OPS did for the season. That I can find in his game logs, Fletcher had only one good stretch of hitting that whole year. From mid June to mid July. Other than that he was terrible and that fact is shown by where he ended up the season.
Minasian never did fully utilize Fletcher’s talents. He could play LF, RF, 3B, SS, 2B. But they pigeonholed him primarily to 2B a couple years ago. Whiff and K% in the high 90th percentile to be a decent lead off hitter.
Yup, pretty surprised Oakland doesn’t grab him because he’s basically Tony Kemp, who is a FA soon.
Cmon man. 2021-2023 his OBP COMBINED is 292…. That’s not the GM’s fault…
Thanks for the comments you guys are pretty cool
I like Fletcher. I hope to see him in Angels red again after we ditch Rengifo for a hotdog vendor and a case of Gatorade for the dug out.
Rengifo is a very loud player. Maybe someone can tone him down and get something out of him. But I wouldn’t count on it,
I’d much rather have fletch, and it’s not particularly close.
As I said in my other post, his playing days as an Angel might be over.
I’m not a fan of this move. He never got a fair chance to play this season; he was used sparingly as a late-inning defensive replacement and started an odd game every 3 or 4 days. That’s not enough to build any type of momentum. Meanwhile, Rengifo and Drury have received every opportunity to fail this season.
Also, Fletcher wasn’t as bad last season as most people assume. He battled injuries in April/May and got off to a terrible start. But since he came back at the end of July through end of the season he managed to hit .275 plus brings a solid glove and is one of the toughest hitters to strikeout.
I have no trust in this Organization, but the smart play is to trade Rengifo. When that happens, Fletcher will be very useful in the proper role.
Rengifo’s stock peaked in the offseason. I’m sure the Halos could have taken advantage and brought in a quality reliever or at least a couple of decent prospects.
I don’t mind Rengifo as long as he’s not an everyday player. I like him as a utility infielder, similar to how Izturis and Callaspo were used… ready to step in should an injury arise.
Perry and Nevin are the ones who should be outrighted.
Yep. They could have traded him. The Angels have had worse utility players, a lot worse, but Fletcher would be one of the better Utility players. A great glove and a pesky bat.
Orange2001, I’d let Perry play this year out, but I agree with the Nevin. He actually checks all the boxes as Manager but not the most important one, Bull-Pen management.
Plug and play. Twice Nevin called plays that took the Angels out of an inning and completely changed the momentum of the game. H3 cost the Angels a game by playing Rengifo at shortstop.
So I disagree. It goes further than bull pen management.
Why would you want a ‘utility infielder’ who couldn’t catch measles in a leper colony?
At least Tyler Wade could field.
Nevin was canned in NY for being a less than adept 3B coach. I actually thought he was a better managerial candidate than Boone, who had zero experience and even now appears to be a ues man for Cashman. Looks like the NYY didn’t miss much.
Rengifo looks good on O and D at times, but is inconsistent. The love affair with Drury I don’t understand – especially playing him at 1B…..one would think they would have learned with the Matt Duffy experiment in 2022 that playing 1B is not as simple as rotisserie league players think it is.
I was thrown by the Fletcher move. Then again, I was thrown when the Braves picked Orlando Arcia to start as SS over Vaughn Grissom and Ehire Adrianza…but I figured they knew something I didn’t. (Worked out exceptionally well until Arcia was injured.)
Something is going on there and in time it will come out.
The love affair with Drury I don’t understand
This happens every.single.year. Drury was a 84 OPS+ career hitter, with no particular defensive skills. He had a few good months in his walk year, and someone signs him like his walk year stats are going to be the “new” Drury.
I question your “there love affair with Drury”. At 2/17m he’s not paid to be one of there main guys,let alone put up last year’s numbers. It’s so early yet, if he gets close to last year’s numbers, he’ll be well worth it.
That said, when Walsh gets back, it’ll cut into his playing time for sure. With less AB’s than last year, don’t even expect the volume of last year’s numbers.
The Angels are enamored with Rengifo’s last 2 months of 2022. Now Fletch pays the price. I hope Fletcher makes it back. The Angels should of called up Soto instead of of Zack Neto and sent Rengifo down. Alotof Angel fans are going to be passed about this.
The last two months of 2022, Rengifo wasn’t very good. He was GREAT in July.
June 21st he was hitting 205 with a 260 OBP. Then for about 5 weeks he went on a tear. The last two month he hit hit 253 with a 268 OBP. Combine that with his defense and he was unplayable.
The Angels put a lot of weight in five weeks.
Halofan11- Go on Baseball Reference and look at Rengifo’s stats in August and Sept. Thats where he was doing his mashing.
I keep listing those stats. I’m not sure how often I have to list them, but I’ll list them again.
253 batting average. 268 OBP. 37Ks. 4 BBS. 8 GIDP.
Rengifo 2nd half of 2022. .267/.290/.455/.745 with 12 HR and a 108 OPS+. Those 12 HR were in August and September. He was mashing.
Fletcher hit 12 HR in what season? He didn’t? His most was 6 in a season he played 154 games and he only hit 4 in his last 909 PA? That kind of sucks wouldn’t you say? Especially when you combine that with a 69 OPS+ in those 909 PA.
But hey, keep on cherry picking your stats while totally ignoring what the other commenter said.
In july he had a 333BA but hit only 1 HR 11 RBI’s
August 6 HR’s 17 rbi
Sept 6 Hr’s 13 rbi plus he was making good plays in the field.
Thats what the angels remember.. They’re banking on him turning the corner and iimproving. So far it hasn’t happened. in 2023.
RBIs are situational. And yes, he’s big swing and miss, who can’t play defense, who can’t control the strike zone who will run into pitches.
Basically everything most people hate about Adell. Except Adell is a lot younger, and has improved defensively.
If this is where Adell is at 2 years from now, I’ll throw in the towel on Adell.
I really tried to resist, but again Halo11 fan, why is it you continue to repeat yourself?
Ok you don’t like Rengifo. Others are allowed to like him, they are called fans! You support yourself with stats, that YOU choose to make your point the most relevant you your side of the argument. There are many intangibles to go along with players that are good enough to play professional baseball. Those intangibles will never be seen on anyone’s stat sheet(s).
In my opinion Rengifo is better for the Angels than Fletcher is at this moment. I base my opinion on many things I see, not just on stats from the past that may predict the future.
BTW, Rengifo is only 26, Adell is 24…how is that a lot younger????
Feel free to disagree. Others are allowed to think he’s more valuable. I hope a GM, other than our own, thinks he’s more valuable.
And if I keep repeating myself, why are people distorting my opinion?
And there are intangibles. And I.M.O. All those intangibles lean toward Fletcher. The failed sacrifice that turned into a DP that cost the Angels a game in Boston for example.
And two years of development in baseball, is an eternity. And you are allowed to disagree.
I.M.O., I feel Rengifo , at this time, is better for the team.
I.M.O., Two years in baseball development is relative to the player. There is a long list of players who “figured it out” much later than 26. Taylor Ward is a very good example.
And if people expressed their opinion like that, rather than the typical hyperbole, I’d probably have less than an issue with it.
I’d rather have the superior defender, and I’d rather have the pesky hitter, when healthy, rather than the big swing and miss guy, who can occasionally run into one.
But you can have the opposite opinion.
But to say Fletcher only hit for a two month period is absurd. To say he’s a two fifty hitter at best is absurd.
I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say Fletch has zero power and Rengifo can’t field. They are completely different kinds of players. They couldn’t be more different.
I think it is fair to say NEITHER Fletcher nor Rengifo has hit for long enough stretches that either one can be counted on as a dependable long term option. I feel the Angels were fair, and gave Flecther enough of a chance to put himself back in the lineup.
I just feel Rengifo at this time is more valuable to the team. I am a huge Fletcher fan. I love players like him. Grinders who put the team before themselves and exude the love of the game. But until he puts the injuries behind him, and gets back on the bases regularly, he isn’t of much value.
I’m trying to discern you position.
1) Rengifo is more valuable to the team.
2) Fletcher has been given enough time to show his value.
3) It’s possible Fletcher may have some lingering injury?
1) Fletcher is more valuable to the team.
2) the last time Fletcher had more than 65 PAs in a month (Aug 2022) he hit, 299 with a 336 OBP and played excellent defense. I’m not sure he has been given a chance.
3) If Fletcher does still have a lingering injury, i don’t know about it.
For he defense alone, I prefer Fletcher, to Rengifo. Rengifo’s ability to barrel the ball once a week doesn’t move the needle enough for me to prefer Rengifo.
And I have no issue with fans with different opinions. I do have an issue when people distort the data.
We do disagree. Pretty much everyone on this board disagrees.
The GM of the Angels didn’t think he was more valuable. He is the one getting paid to make those decisions. He also knows more about the intangibles than you ever could from the outside.
No other GM thought he was more valuable or they would have claimed him or traded for him.
You seem to be the only person that thinks Fletcher is valuable at all.
The facts are clear. He has a 69 OPS+ since the start of 2021. 31% below league average. He has a 2.6 WAR since the start of 2021. 47% below league average. There is no tangible or intangible value there.
No matter what you think, it doesn’t change the facts. Those facts led the Angels to eat $14 million to DFA and outright him off the 40 man roster. That is reality. Wake up. Smell the coffee.
My position is:
I think the Angels made the right choice in sending Fletcher down, instead of letting Rengifo go.
Fletcher had all of August and September, spring training and April to play himself into more games, unfortunately he was not able to do so. If the Angels wanted a defense only guy they would have Velasquez around, or kept Tyler Wade last year.
I don’t know if Fletcher has a lingering injury, I assume something is keeping him from performing to his 2019-2020 abilities, because he does not perform the same. I’d love to see him back in Anaheim and contributing. He is the kind of player I enjoy watching the most.
“We do disagree. Pretty much everyone on this board disagrees.”
So, mob rules?
In this case, reality rules. No one in their right mind would say that Fletcher is a good hitter. The stats say otherwise.
There is no way to spin it. It’s not about the mob vs a correct individual. It’s about the reality of the stats vs hurt in the behind because his favorite player just got cut delusional.
It sure seems like you can’t disagree with someone without insulting them as well. The fan above likes Fletcher. You don’t. Got it.
By Web’s definition the fan above is not in his right mind, as you have pointed out multiple times. Don’t defend delusional trolls. Be better.
Rengifo – 86 OPS+ in 755 PA over 195 games played from 2021-2023
He had a 102 OPS+ in 511 PA over 127 games last season
Fletcher – 69 OPS+ in 909 PA over 226 games from 2021-2023
Last season he had a 75 OPS+ in 228 PA over 61 games played.
Fletch has never had an OPS+ over 100 in a full season. His last full season in 2021 he had a 70 OPS+ in 655 PA over 157 games
Typically writers quote those in the game as saying that 500-600 PA is a long enough stretch of play to understand what .they have in a hitter. So 755-909 is certainly enough. Since the beginning of the 2021 season Rengifo has been a 17% better hitter than Fletcher and he was 27% better last season.
Just for reference, in 2023 Fifo was hitting 86% better when the Angels DFA’d Fletch. Fifo had 56 OPS+ vs Fletch’s -30 OPS+. Fifo was horrible. Fletch was doing so bad that I don’t even know how to describe it.
In 2021 Fletch hit .262/.297/.324/.622 with a 70 OPS+
Last season he hit .255/.288/.333/.621 with a 75 OPS+
In spring training he hit .240/.269/.320/.589 with a 51 OPS+
To start the season he hit .125/.125/.125/.250 with a -30 OPS+
You and Halo 11…
Good clean fun!
You and PadsFan!
Good clean fun!
Halo11Fan is the most clueless poster on this site by a long, long way.
The last 2 months of 2022, August 5th to Oct 5th, Rengifo was good. 100 OPS+. 102 wRC+. 12 HR.
In the 2nd half, July 22nd to October 5th, Rengifo had a 108 OPS+, 108 wRC+, 12 HR and a .267/.290/.455/.745 slashline. That is good.
No matter how you slice it, he was good.
June 1st Fifo was hitting .290.
At the end of the ASB on July 21st he was hitting .259
On the final day of the season he was hitting .264 with a .724 OPS and 102 OPS+
Do you realize which one of those counts? If you said the last one, you are correct. Any other answer is wrong.
Fletch is paying the price because he can’t hit. His 69 OPs+ is in the bottom 3 in baseball since the start of 2021.
Soto is hitting .157 for the Bees and has hit .244 with a .658 OPS in the minors.. Neto, who was drafted mid-July last year, has hit over .400 since being called up to AA at the end of last season.
Like Fletch, Rengifo has no options left. He could not be sent down without passing through waivers and Minassian obviously feels he would not make it through waivers and has more value than Fletch.
Winslow – “The Angels should of called up Soto instead of of Zack Neto” . Soto is struggling right now with the bat at AAA. Neto is a good glove good arm guy and should hit very well. He was hitting over .400 with power when called up. He is who they want at SS. He is not just a replacement for Fletcher.
Chump team and Ohtani is gone from Anaheim after this season- gone!
Surprised it took so long.
Truthfully, so am I.
I am sure that because they owe him $14 million Minassian wanted to give him a shot. But he was terrible the last 2 years, in spring training, and since the start of the season.
With Neto playing so well they really had no reason to keep him around.
Fletcher has Andrew Velazquez to thank for his shelf life. While Andrew had a solid glove, he made everyone idealize Fletcher’s return each time he stepped to the plate, and it didn’t matter if he had a bat in his hands or not – same results either way.
Waiting for Dipoto to come in and scoop him up.
Well he had his chance, it’s not happening now. I don’t blame him, but at half the price he just might of.
Fletcher has much in common with Paul DeJong.
Ironically, decades ago before analytics, Fletcher would have been touted as a ‘good’ player because of his fielding and the
thinking that any offense out of a middle infielder is a plus!
Reminds me of 1960’s/1970’s manager Ralph Houk always batting his second baseman leadoff because “thats where they always bat.”
A young Bill James could only look on in horror…..
True. But Houk was never so abjectly stupid as to hit Roger Maris or Mickey Mantle leadoff.
Maybe Trade Rumors should start an ESports site for all the gamers and stat heads.
I hope this all comes full circle and we/ they find a way to blend the computations spit out by a computer, with the stark reality that sports are played by humans. I get tired of people creating arguments based upon some stat they are able to look up and regurgitate. At the end of the day professional men and women, are the talented athletes who put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to do what they do.
I enjoy going to the stadium and watching the game, and I don’t confuse it with a game simulated on an electronic device. It seems like too many people are driven by the latter. Their thumbs are the BEST MIKE TROUT ever.
Too many analytics dweebs look at stats as if it’s a video game. In video games, statistics almost always near out. In real life, human baseball players often defy statistical probability.
Example: “Pitchers stats often inflate the third time through the lineup. So lets yank our $30 million ace because of our bar graphs…” Totally ignoring how over a six month season that will chew up your bullpen and spit it out.
If your $30 million pitcher is getting blown up the 3rd time through the lineup, then he isn’t an Ace. Sorry. Make better decisions about who you pay the big bucks to.
Cole is not getting yanked the 3rd time through the lineup. Only a few other guys making $30 million, and they aren’t being yanked after 2 times through the lineup either. They make $30 million + because they can go deeper than twice through the lineup without getting bombed.
So, your hyperbole is off base. Maybe try some real examples next time.
I agree with what you just said.
I have no idea why you’re attacking What I said, since I was basically saying the same thing.
I’m saying that if an ace, or even a good starter, is cruising along nicely, why replace him with a mid-reliever, just because ‘analytics’ tell you to.
What’s your problem?
Take a look at the original comments after signing this extension.. they ranged from “solid signing” to “Fletcher needs to fire his agent”.
It was a low-risk move by the Angels but it is amazing how quickly these deals can go bad.. and how quickly fans forget how many of them go bad.
Take a look at the original signing and read my comments. It was blasphemy to suggest this was a good deal for Fletcher.
Stone him! STONE HIM!
Trout getting doubled off first!
Come with the kill shot!
I must have missed it, is this an obnoxious Spankees page?!!
Oh joy Spankees fan on an article that has nothing to do with them
Terry Smith and Mark Langston are far far better than anyone the Yankees employ.
Should the Angels take a flier on Bumgarner? Heh heh heh.
Wow. O’Hoppe just went down. Hope he’s okay. Strange. Shoulder issues?
Angels tied with the Astros, who are playing ATL.
Since the Angels are playing KC, which must stand for ‘Killed Cadavers’, the LAA of A should be able to make up some ground.
All the best.
BronxMac You are definitely sick in the head!
I like it, haaa
Why yes. Yes I am.
(Said like Fast Eddie Felsen/Paul Newman).
I actually do listen to LAA games though. KLAA 830. I like their announcers.
We can all agree Shohei was showtime last night.
High Five ✋
He’s obviously not going to pass on nearly $20MM in guaranteed money.