After snapping a seven-game losing streak on Saturday, the Mets couldn’t remain in the win column today, dropping a 2-1 result to the Pirates. The loss dropped New York’s record to 31-35, putting them in fourth place in the NL East and 9.5 games behind the first-place Braves. The crowded NL standings mean that the Mets are only 3.5 games back of a wild card berth, yet obviously the Mets didn’t expect to find themselves in such a middling position after winning 101 games in 2022 and then augmenting their roster with a blockbuster offseason.
Since owner Steve Cohen has been so aggressive in his spending to make the Mets into a World Series contender, there has been a lot of speculation over whether or not Cohen’s desire to win could now manifest itself in managerial or front office changes in response to the Mets’ slow start. However, as Cohen indicated to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, such changes don’t appear to be in the works, nor is he planning to “blow up” just to express public frustration.
“The reality is it’s not going to solve our problems,” Cohen said. “And I think in some ways it can be demotivating….I think that’s the worst thing you can do is to be overly reactionary. General fan reaction, it’s usually, ’I can’t believe Steve’s not going nuts, fire somebody.’ My answer to that is, ’OK, let’s say I went nuts. Let’s say I fired somebody. Then what?’ What does that accomplish? Who are you gonna replace them with? This is the middle of the season. And then if you actually ask people [who are the replacements], they have no answers, other than they’re just angry, and I get that. I’m frustrated too.”
While this isn’t exactly a clear vote of confidence in GM Billy Eppler or manager Buck Showalter, Cohen stated that he isn’t letting “recency bias” dictate his decisions, saying “You’re better off trying to manage through these periods and not throw your entire plans out the window. It’s just not good management, good strategy.” In one of multiple references Cohen made between the Mets and his hedge fund business, Cohen noted that “there are moments where we’ve drawn down really hard for whatever reasons — whether it’s markets, whether it’s something that we did wrong — it doesn’t mean I completely change or let people go. I don’t operate that way. These are challenges. This is management. This is the moment where you get to witness how your management deals with problems.”
Cohen made it clear that he isn’t pleased with the season to date, pointing to both a lack of results from the rotation as well as “mental errors” from the team at large. But, “those are what I would call unforced errors that we can fix and we will because these are good guys who are working hard,” Cohen said, and he feels his pitching staff has too much talent to continue struggling.
“What is the odds this group of pitchers will pitch this way the entire season. Probably unlikely,” Cohen said. “That is why there is reason for optimism in a moment where it looks like the wheels have just come off….These are people who have performed in the past, and you’ve got to believe that it’s fixable. I keep coming back to that: The best indicator of future performance is how they performed in the past. And they have performed consistently well in the past. That gives me optimism for the future.”
The Mets entered Sunday’s action ranked 25th of 30 teams in rotation ERA, as both under-performance and health issues have been pitfalls for the team’s starters. Justin Verlander and Carlos Carrasco each missed significant time on the 15-day injured list, while Max Scherzer has battled some neck soreness and also served a 10-game suspension for use of a foreign substance on his hands while pitching. Jose Quintana has yet to pitch at all this season due to a stress fracture in his ribs suffered during Spring Training, and isn’t expected back until July. Beyond this veteran group, Kodai Senga has pitched well in his first MLB season, but Tylor Megill, David Peterson, and Joey Lucchesi have all struggled.
“Slow start”?
It’s June 11.
Who couldn’t figure out – other than MLBTR writers and most of the posters – that overpaying for old players doesn’t win championships?
And when Francisco Lindor is telling the owner what to do and the owner is listening…….
At the end of the season the Mets can play the Padres in the ‘We Won The Offseason’ bowl.
The two most disappointing team in the national league are the Mets and the Cardinals right now. Both of these teams should be playing better than their current record. For the Cards nothing is working we just find a way to lose each time. Apparently, this is not our year. There is still time to figure out and either to win the division or get a wild card spot, but if we don’t start playing better the best solution is to move some players at the trade deadline. However, for the Mets it will be difficult to win that division at this point with the Braves playing super well, but there is a chance or they could get to the playoff by getting a wild card spot. Maybe, both teams could be sellers at the trade deadline.
The Cardinals team that I saw getting swept in Pittsburgh last weekend isn’t the usual Cardinal team. Not sure what you mean by “should be playing better than their current record”.
Not a lot of guys to fear in that lineup anymore and really, their pitching isn’t what’s it has been in the past. If I were a Cards fan I guess I’d take solace in the fact that the NL Central is not out of reach
Which brings me to the Mets, who were here in Pittsburgh over the weekend. Again, I’m not sure how they should be playing better when so many of their guys are banged up
There is nothing in their current lineup that would lead me to believe they’ll contend in the East. Unlike the NL Central, I’m taken aback by Cohen’s comment They’re 9 1/2 out now and with a strong Braves team, it’s not unreasonable that by the All Star break, given this trek they’ll be toast
And the chemical Brothers are Like
Back with another one of those block rocking beats
The Cardinals are the most talented team in MLB IMO. They win on talent but their current Manager needs to get out of his own head and Manage the game and not his players.
Lol….def not a homer take here
The St. Louis Cardinals are MLB’s most talented team in 2023?
That might be the most ridiculous take I’ve seen all season.
You are aware they have the 2nd-worst record in the NL and their best starting pitcher is almost 42 years old and retiring at the end of the season, right?
I don’t think the Cardinals are the most talented team in their division. It’s not the managers fault. Their pitching is thin. Their offense is better than what we’re seeing, but not enough to carry them.
I don’t think the Cardinals are that good on paper. Better than their record shows, particularly offensively, but I still don’t see them as the best team in the NLC. The Mets were counting on Scherzer and Verlander to continue their dominance, and I just don’t think you’re going to see that anymore. Losing Bassitt and even Walker really hurt their depth. I just don’t think they have a strong rotation. David Robertson has been unbelievable as the closer, but I think the lack of SP is really going to hurt the bullpen in the 2nd half. I still expect to see a run out of the Mets, but I don’t know if it’ll be enough with the Braves and Marlins playing well consistently, and the Phillies on their usual June surge.
I would say that losing Williams and Lugo out of the pen has caused more difficulty than losing Walker and Bassitt. Walker will take his usual 2nd half decline (be prepared Phillies fans) and Bassitt’s loss was basically offset by Senga’s addition.
The middle relief has been terrible, though. I will be interested to see how many middle relievers have been aboard the Option Carousel by September. Zero reliability with the guys they are running in and out of AAA.
Walker started the season pretty terribly, so I’m hoping he finishes stronger. I’d also say he was a bit overworked with the Mets, having to be an ace type with deGrom and Scherzer hurt. I think there’s a lot less stress on his arm with the Phillies, but I think it was a tremendous overpay, and one of the major mistakes by DD.
Cohen spent 350 million( Plus penalties coming) on a baseball team. He already panicked. He paid for guys and backups. The only problem is the guys and backups are all hurt now. They already panicked, Doing it again would be silly.
A Toilet Bowl at the end of the season would get more viewings than the World Series
Bring on the sponsors!!Anything turd related!
Oh yeah!
“What is the odds this group of pitchers will pitch this way the entire season. Probably unlikely,” Cohen said.
Probably sort of kinda not exactly maybe possibly potentially 100% unlikely…
Way to give it a convincing vote of confidence, Steve!
“The best indicator of future performance is how they performed in the past. ”
Wrong. Baseball players are depreciating assets. As they get older, their performances typically decline. The declines can be drastic and may be unforeseen in some cases. 40 year old Justin Verlander is not the same as his 28 year old peak self.
Or 39 year old peak
Verlander must of been on Roids or HGH during his recovery phase and last season was cycling off the HGH. You can stick a fork in Verlander. He is old and looks washed up. The 31 million could of been used to to bolster the lineup and pick up a cheaper pitcher while at the same time they could of traded for another starter
“He is old and looks washed up.”….that’s what they were saying NINE YEARS AGO. Yeah, it’s obvious he’s not pitching well NOW, but Verlander has shown us many times in those 9 years he can right the ship and make himself productive somehow, so don’t count him out just yet!
@Hemlock
Agree wholeheartedly. Some players defy the aging process better than others, but age is always going to bring risk.
There is no way to avoid that even if Scherzer and Verla see are still amazingly talented and capable of reaching the same peak performance they’ve displayed throughout their careers, they are the age they are. Reality is that the body is more vulnerable when it comes to injury and recovery time is longer as the body ages.
Too many eggs in too many old baskets on that pitching staff. I also think that analytics and number crunching has its faults. I love all the advanced stats, don’t get me wrong, but there still has to be a human element to player evaluation. I think a lot of us saw the massive margin for error with this team at the start of the season
Tell it to Rich Hill.
Hemlock- Star players typically don’t decline as they get older. Clemens, Ortiz, Bonds … and you mentioning Verlander is particularly odd considering in his last 3 seasons he’s won 2 Cy’s and was runner-up in the 3rd season. Last year was his best season ever, and he was 39.
“ Clemens, Ortiz, Bonds”
Aren’t all these guys linked to PEDs?
@Soco
Haha, I’m hoping he was being sarcastic. Always looked at Bonds and Griffey in comparison and thought, “well I know Griffey didn’t cheat because that man aged like the rest of us while Bonds just hit another level”
Bonds’ shoes went up five sizes in one year. He was so full of PEDs he had turned into the incredible Hulk, bursting out of his normal size clothes.
Fever Pitch Guy:
> Hemlock-
> … and you mentioning
> Verlander is particularly odd
> considering in his last 3 seasons he’s
> won 2 Cy’s and was runner-up in the
> 3rd season. Last year was his best
> season ever, and he was 39.
Incorrect. Verlander has last year’s Cy Young and two years lost to an injury the past three years. Those years you quoted were when he was 35 and 36 years old, 4 to 5 years ago!!
Cohen is paying Verlander more for what he did last year on the Astros than what he will do with the Mets. His great season last year, and I wouldn’t argue otherwise, does not make it a certainty that he will repeat it over the NEXT three years.
Cohen’s quote again:
“The best indicator of future performance is how they performed in the past. ”
Something like this instead:
Past performance may not always be an indication of what future performance will be without also considering the player’s age and injury history.
Speaking of the Astros. Here it is, another year and another winning record. And they do it with a blend of home grown and outside help. They are risk takers. Not afraid to make changes. It blew my mind when they didn’t heavily pursue resigning the likes of Correa as well as Verlander. Thought for sure they’d would regress in both instances. Dolt!
Soco- Probably, yes. Does it matter with regard to this discussion? The performance was still there.
OK what about Koji Uehara, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Rich Hill, Jamie Moyer.
Hemlock – I specifically said Verlander’s last 3 seasons, age 35-36-39. Why would you include seasons when he didn’t pitch?
Cohen was saying players who have had consistent success in the past are more apt to repeat that success. He’s not wrong.
Sure most players decline in their 40s but plenty continued to produce through their late 30s and some actually improve.
@FPG most players decline in their mid-30s, The great majority retires before reaching 40. I think you are taking exceptions and making them into the rule.
Verlander had not pitched for 2 years, then came back and pitched very well. But just like rookies that hit a wall on their second year because they aren’t used to playing so many games in theIr rookie season. Verlander is also likely suffering from pitching so much last year.
Spahn, the Niekros, Carlton, Tommy John, Don Sutton
Slow – I agree with you on most players, but the subject is about elite players. There was no reason to believe Verlander would suddenly lose it after last season.
But he just came off a Cy young… of course he should be making 40 million at age 41 next year and or course some fool owner had to pay boras asking price? What better man than Steve Cohen? He’s got billions?
> some fool owner had to pay boras
> asking price? What better man than
> Steve Cohen? He’s got billions?
A fool and his money are soon parted.
It’s easy to root against the Mets (and I’m no fan) but Cohen has a point. His team is better than it’s played so far and is likely to revert to the mean. Patience is probably the best course.
Came here to say the same thing. Cohen might end up being a great owner that brings a few titles to NY. He just needs to stop doing the Preller thing
The only way the Mets win a few titles under Cohen is if they build up their farm system and have home grown talent especially pitching talent. Then they can go out and spend for veterans to supplement the teams needs. The Mets problems are not quick fixes and Cohen has been trying to do the quick fix in the short term. He very well may understand this which worries me as a Braves fan lol.
Agreed, SocoC, agreed. Additionally, if still struggling by late July, would they unload a Max S, for mix of controllable ML level and minor league level high end talent to a team with playoff possibilities?
Os fan. Mr Elias, if still relevant by late July, convince Angelos to go get that 1 with bulldog mentality and at any price. O’s ain’t going deep in any playoff scenario until ownership makes this kind of commitment.
Angelos to go get that 1 with bulldog mentality and at any price.
========================
The “bulldog mentality” doesn’t mean a heck of a lot. I had a bulldog mentality, but no real talent. I’ve had former teammates tell me that they loved playing with me, but that doesn’t put up the Ws.
Hey Joe B. Hope all is well. I meant “bulldog” as in a gifted pitcher that wants the ball in the biggest moment(s). To me, that’s Max. And yep, played thru college and then some. Im familiar with that kinda of “bulldog” you are referring to. Cheers!
Patience is only option. Teams don’t trade until deadline for a reason.
I’d be surprised if the Mets were sellers at the deadline. Cohen bought almost every top player in sight this past off-season. If he traded anyone it would make him look bad since he himself made all these high priced deals.
High priced players bring back lesser returns as there is no excess value.
@avenger65
There’s the other thing. Cohen overpaid for these guys. Unless the Mets are sending money in trades to offset the overpaid signings, they’re not likely to get any trade interest for any of them.
Unless they trade for other bad contracts?
Who is NYM selling? Aging/overpaid players? Canha/Escobar/Vogelbach really any contender’s missing link?
The Mets will be selling Vogelslug by the pound. Should bring some big $$$
David Robertson should be the Mets deadline piece. He’s not part of the Mets future plans with Diaz returning. He’s having a monster season. Sell high. Grab a quick return for him.
D-Rob
Not likely… The Mets are a below average team statistically. They are ranked 19th in MLB hitting and 26th in pitching, and an average 10th in fielding.. Without Alonso in the line-up there’s no punch at all other than Alvarez. Nimmo is a nice piece, McNeil’s average is down 50+ points and the outfield is a bunch of journeymen.
It doesn’t take a quantum computer to figure out that they are where they belong in the standings.
I actually think it could get much worse. The lack of quality starts is going to hurt the bullpen. David Robertson has been elite, but he’s not young and his overuse could lead to a decline in the 2nd half. The Mets offense will come around, but I don’t see that rotation being as good as many thought.
Buck had already overused the bullpen even before this latest skid.
Yeah exactly. I think it’s going to catch up to them. For as much as I can see this offense improving, I think this overworked bullpen is going to implode.
re·ac·tion·ar·y | rēˈakSHəˌnerē |
adjective
(of a person or a set of views) opposing political or social liberalization or reform.
Malapropism, or what?
Basically he’s saying he’s not going to knee-jerk fire Showalter or Eppler. Typically in sports when the owner publicly states he’s not going to do something it usually means he is…
I’m sure that’s what he thought he said. The funny part to me is he didn’t know what he was actually saying.
One of my biggest usage pet peeves.
He means “reactive,” but people use the wrong word so, so often when this is what they mean.
You’re right, but your comment has its own usage error. “So” is not an intensifier.
In a time when every crisis is existential and everything is iconic, it’s tough to pick a favorite malapropism.
He’s frustrated?
AAARRRGGHHH…METS is a 4 letter word!!
“These are people who have performed in the past, and you’ve got to believe that it’s fixable. I keep coming back to that: The best indicator of future performance is how they performed in the past. And they have performed consistently well in the past. That gives me optimism for the future.”
_
MLB is not like investing in businesses, industries, or commodities. It’s investing in professional athletes that have a limited shelf life.
If Mr. Cohen wants pitchers that “have performed consistently well in the past” then he should trade for Corey Kluber and Robbie Ray, then look at signing Rick Porcello to a $100m contract.
That is a team with a $350m payroll. It’s embarrassing.
As for “The crowded NL standings mean that the Mets are only 3.5 games back of a wild card berth” – the Mets have to climb over 4 teams and here’s just as good a chance that the teams below them will climb over them by years-end.
They’re playing youngsters that need a year or two to adjust to ML play, yet seem to think that can also compete for a pennant at the same time with a bunch of old guys that keep getting injured.
This is no business plan for an MLB franchise.
Sounds like Bob Klapisch has a sequel to write.
We are past calling it a slow start as the team has played 66 games already with 96 games remaining and a tougher schedule on the horizon and no Pete Alonso for the next few weeks there is very little reason to think this team can reach the Braves in the NL East and at best probably has the third Wild Card spot as its best option. With todays loss the Mets have the same record as the Cincinnati Reds and have spent more than $251 million dollars more to do so
Iv been saying this since the trading deadline last year. Get rid of Billy Eppler and the season will be saved. Its obvious what the main problems with this team are. The bullpen is our biggest weakness. None of these guys outside Ottavino, Robertson, and Brigham are usable in close games. I’d get rid of everyone besides those 3 guys. There are better options out there. Next I’d trade Escobar, Canha, and Pham to try get whatever relievers/relieve prospects you can. Next get rid of Vogelbach, hes a net negative on the team. My last way of saving the season is to try and trade away Lindor. Maybe someone will bite, package him with some prospects and pay maybe a quarter to half of his salary. Hes the phoniest player in the league. He came into Spring Training before he got his extention acting rude saying “I’m not shifting for anyone, I know how to play shortstop”. He hit 4 spring training homeruns because he was fighting for the contract. He also started kissing up to Steve Cohen’s Puerto Rican wife, hugging and kissing her because he knows that Cohen does everything his wife says. Once he got his money he started to act all nice and happy pappy. Hes a cancer to the team. With that contract I’m surprised Cohen is able to sleep at night. Heck its like everyone forgot about his thumbs down to the fans. Hes a rally killer hitting at the top of the lineup, least clutch player in the game. Great fielder but they can just bring up Mauricio so he can play his natural position. This would also open up payroll for moves into the future
Y’all Mets fans are real weird about Lindor.
Hahaha…maybe he can pawn the Gucci glove and buy a bat that has some hits in it!
He’s not necessarily wrong about Lindor, though.
Lindor was definitely a little standoff-ish when he first got to the Mets. I think he came in with a defensive mindset, wary of the New York media, and didn’t really want the pressure that New York was going to put on him. He realized he would be crazy not to sign the extension though and just went for it. That first year was definitely a transition and I think overall he just wasn’t ready for New York and the negativity that he clearly didn’t want to experience. In the off-season before ‘22 though, someone definitely must have talk to him, whether it was Beltran, or someone else, because he’s been a different guy since then. Much more understanding of where he is and saying the right things, and just realizing the type of personality he has to have to be successful here.
Sadly, he certainly hasn’t been the same hitter he was in Cleveland, but he’s a good player to have on your team, the problem is that someone getting paid that kind of money should be a staple of your lineup, and he’s more of an accessory piece. The Mets desperately need another legitimate middle of the order bat in that lineup that can hit for average and some power as well . You can’t build a line up around Lindor. I certainly don’t think he’s a cancer to the team, he’s a net-positive player, just with a bloated contract. If you could find a team that really did want to take the contract off your hands I would certainly entertain it of course, but we all know that will not happen.
I think what we’re seeing is that last year was one of those special years where a bunch of average players were all able to be a little above average and have a special type year. What needs to happen the rest of the way is the Mets need to keep playing the kids, hope for the best, and if it’s not working out, don’t lose sight of your ultimate goal to be a successful franchise, and don’t give up your youth to try and save a season where you’re not going to win.
The fans will still be there next year, and you can start reaping the rewards of some good young players who now have a year of Big league experience under their belt.
Lindor is as he always has been: the most overrated player in MLB.
Lindor lost that greatest after his seasons with Cleveland started slowly going down. Ss can’t play that position for 15-20years without Father Time catching up they eventually get moved to outfield or 2nd base.
what needs to happen is get Chavez back as damn hitting coach!
For once, I agreed with you until you started on Lindor and Cohen’s wife.
@lfg. You would think a billionaire would have a supermodel wife but not Uncle Steve.
@Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman He loves his wife. Theres no way in hell hes not sleeping with random 20-30 year olds though. Im sure he probably has a one sided open relationship with his wife. Probably why he got divorced from his first wife
No one is taking that contract of their hands, regardless of who you attach to it. Imagine how worse things would look if the Correa deal had actually gone through…
@Rsox its kind of funny that no one wants Lindors contract yet before the season people were putting him in the top 15 best player list. I was stunned when I saw that. As someone that watches around 95% of the games, he is no super star. His hitting is 7th hitter level. His defense is elite, I’ll give him that. 341 mil for a player thats probably worth 4 years 60 million in total, pathetic
I traded away Lindor at the start of the season. Got Zac Gallen in return. Guy who I traded with wasn’t real happy two months later lol
Well, Showalter could go, he only signed a 3 year deal and the contract amount for Cohen is petty cash for him
I don’t know what he should do, I wasn’t a Showalter fan for awhile
He ticked me off something fierce and he is not fan friendly, Joe Maddon is a available….. so there is that
As a Yankee fan I’d take Showalter back tomorrow if he was available
Fire all the Front Office & coaching staff Steve!
Lolmets
Broken record.
Mmm…Buck. He’s a decent manager. He’ll get you to the first round of playoffs, then the team folds. Never able to get his team deep into the postseason. I wouldn’t be devastated if they fired him. I’d be jacked about Joe Maddon!
Yuck. No need to pay for a name. Hire some unknown for minimum wage.
Maddon has been taking credit for those Rays spreadsheets for years.
The Buck Stops there.
Showalter the door.
should have NEVER taken Chavez out as hitting coach. the whole season has gone to crap due to this. was a total different element and feel to this lineup last year with him in that spot.
The pitching is garbage this year too.
Sounds to me and I have been closely monitoring the Mets since the mid 60’s that it is the same old Mets as with the Wilpons only with $.
Steve Cohen seems ok with an incompetent FO and the losing and wasting of unprecedented assets. Where am I wrong?
Amen,brother! Too bad Charlie Morton didn’t plunk Eppler!
Don’t you agree that it was bad form for a Team Leader to heckle a rookie SP from the dugout after hitting a massive HR?
Yes I do! Pete should have kept his mouth shut and let his bat do the talking.
Don’t you agree that Braves fans cheering a serious injury to one of MLB’s standout players was more than bad form? You can hear it on the audio, and see the glee in Braves’ fans in the NY video feed.
And, for the record, all teams heckle players on the field from the dugout. That was manufactured controversy, and it backfired when Braves fans thought Charlie Morton (a class act ballplayer) intentionally hit Alonso.
Apparently some Braves fans are too stupid to realize that, when you retaliate, you hit a player on the butt or thigh, not some place where you can end their season.
Every Mets fan on the planet would have cheered if the situation was reversed. Also, to be fair, Braves fans cheered again after seeing Pete walk it off and take 1st before being removed.
The Mets are trash haven’t I been saying that?
Cohen and the Mets messed up by giving Lindor that ridiculous contract. When you give someone that type of money, he needs to be your best player and leader. It’s the same problem the Padres have with Tatis, but at least Tatis is young and growing. Lindor is who he is at this point.
Cohen is the problem. He either isn’t paying attention to his business or doesn’t care. Front office isn’t competent. Hire new people. Or just come here and get my advice for free. Doesn’t take someone as smart as me though. Basic intelligence knows Lindor was a over pay. Davis and 3 prospects are more valuable than a old weak platoon. 7 years of Holderman are worth more than 3 years of a fat slow platoon dh. 43m multiple years is risky investment for 40 year old pitching no matter how good it was previous years. When the smartest teams in the league don’t want these guys hello red flag anyone?
Cohen started on the wrong track when he brought Sandy Alderson back which was his first move and I knew it then. There was no need to trade for Lindor as the Mets had Gimenez who was very good and controllable and there were plenty of SS FAs coming on line soon.
The Mets have a serious culture problem that runs throughout their entire organization. Their minor league teams are all losers and they have zero minor league top pitching prospects anywhere. Mets need to be nuked and real baseball FO hired to run things. The Wilpon holdovers need to be purged.
It can be done as I was around during the Frank Cashen years.
Preach it, brother! Can I get an Amen from the Citifield faithful!
brooklyn62,
I have only been to Citifield a few times while I used to live at Shea Stadium knowing every nook and cranny under the stadium, the Players parking lot, press box you name it, the Marina, Corona, 7 train, LIRR everything, all the vendors and security. I used to socialize with the ’86 Players.
Fortunately I experienced the ’69 & ’86 Championships and understand everything Mets and baseball.
@Robrock30
This week was brutal! I’ve been alternating swigs of my beer and my Maalox bottle and using words directed at the Mets that my daughters have heard me use before!
Sounds like Cohen should hire you with all these bona fides.
Are you talking to me? I am always right. I wanted the Mets to draft Aaron Judge instead of Dom Smith, correctly predicted that Jason Bay was not a good signing instead of Matt Holliday, etc. I have watched more baseball than anyone and can usually predict in game action.
Mr. Robrock do you bet on baseball ?? Sounds like you would make a killing, you’ve watched & observed so much. I appreciate the insight from those who have put their time in. Good luck towards your Mets sir
Robrock30: If you can accurately predict in-game action, please get on Twitter and post your predictions during an upcoming game. Let us know what your Twitter handle is so we can follow you.
Poor guy. Billionaire who owns a professional sports team. Woe is me…
I’m kidding, but not really, so save the insults. It’s all in love.
He’ll likely hold firm for the season, but if things don’t improve, he’ll bring in a PoBO who will bring in a new manager.
Cohen is kind of an idiot here. First, it’s June 11 not May 11 or April 11. This is not a slow start. They started better than this. This no small sample size either. And the odds the pitching continues to struggle? I’d say closer to 80-90% than zero. Investing $86 mil a year for aging mercenary pitchers is backfiring in a big way. Eppler makes poor choices, especially in hitters: Ruf, Pham, Voglebach. The bullpen is barely held together with duct tape and AAAA mediocrity. Buck makes head scratching decisions with his lineups and bullpen moves. These are not reactionary opinions. It is stark cold reality yet Mister money bags thinks staying the course is the best option. Well, let’s see who’s right come October. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think so. The original “Worst team money could buy (‘93 team) has been replaced in a huge way by the 2023 team.
Steve Cohen is in really deep now doubling down on stupid with his head in the sand hoping things will improve with his aging vets and flawed roster.
He is also mishandling the casino deal next to the stadium which requires a Park designation change and the local politicians and community oppose him. He is trying to play hardball with not permitting the to be built soccer stadium to utilize his parking. The City and community want the soccer stadium deal with Housing and he is trying to thwart this. It is getting ugly now in Flushing.
Doesn’t look like the Mets have any pending FA’s with relevant trade value. Maybe Robertson but he’s a little pricey for what you get.
Alonso is probably tradable in a deadline deal.
Not a pending FA
I hardly like Cohen as a person, but the nitpicking here is silly. Who cares if we are past the “slow start” part of the season, his point stands. The Mets contended for the division title wire to wire last season and got better. They WILL be better.
You can’t be a Mets fan. You’re actually…optimistic!
Actually, DarkSide, the Mets got worse in the final month of last season, lost the division and lost in the first round of playoffs. One might say they choked.
I think some key pieces to their 101 season are gone. Bassitt and Walker got the bulk of the wins in the 1st half with deGrom and Scherzer being down. The Mets don’t have them anymore. Senga has been solid, but their SP depth isn’t great. Quintana may help, but this team doesn’t have the stoppers they had last year.
As a GM,Eppler is a terrible judge of talent.Previously,with both the Yankees and Angels, he signed has been,faded mlb talent for maximum salary.
He panicked this past off season with most of the Mets pitching staff departing for FA and made knee jerk decisions. Carrasco was really a questionable signing, and as much as I respect Verlander, that is a CRAZY amount of $$$ to pay a 40 year old pitcher! Panic moves do not bode well! Eppler is absolutely not what the Mets need.
Cohen wants Ohtani. It’s a longshot, but I often wonder if he keeps Eppler around specifically to try and lure Ohtani away from the West Coast.
GM & coach will be fired at the end of the season. Cohen promised a World Series, let’s see him deliver
What do these front office guys tell ownership to keep their jobs? Billy Epller has been an awful GM every step of the way, yet here he is, somehow gifted the largest payroll in baseball history and still can’t win.
Very curious to see if the Mets and Padres front offices are able to convince ownership to fire managers. Crazy because BoMel & Buck have more success in their little finger than the GM’s do
Since the Braves series, I partially blame Pete Alonso for getting attention of the Baseball Gods. He should have never shown up Bryce Elder from the dugout. Should have kept his mouth shut!
Who are these baseball “gods”? What if their just angels.
I guess that depends what your religious philosophy is. For whatever reason, I haven’t thought angels to be vengeful or to exact karma on someone. I always figured that Gods do.
Nelson: “Haha!”
The main issue underlying all of this is the Mets haven’t developed and aren’t bringing up brilliant young starting pitchers like they did in the 1980s with Gooden, Darling, Fernandez et al and like the Astros, Braves, Dodgers, Marlins, Guardians, Rays, and Reds are doing today.
Blue Baron,
I remember the 60s when they developed Tom Seaver & Nolan Ryan together plus Koosman & Matlack and Tug McGraw. The only problem was they didn’t draft Reggie Jackson due to him dating a Latin woman or they could have dominated the 70s.
I remember that as well.
I read a book in which the author claimed they also could have but didn’t sign or draft Dick Allen, Vida Blue, and Thurman Munson for various reasons, plus they lost Paul Blair to the Orioles in about 1963 in a minor league draft.
But even with all that, they would have been a lot better through the 1970s if they hadn’t traded Amos Otis for Joe Foy, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, and Ken Singleton in the Rusty Staub deal.
They might also have been better if they had named Whitey Herzog, who was farm director while all these prospects were developing, manager when Gil Hodges died instead of Yogi Berra. He was so POed about those trades and being passed over that he jumped at the chance to become manager of, I believe, the Texas Rangers in 1973.
Of course, hindsight is always 20-20.
Yup exactly. If you’re paying someone $30MM + a year they better be damn good players or leaders. Lindors averaging as much as Chris Taylor to put that into perspective.
With 3 wild card teams. And the Phillies not that far ahead, yes still early. I agree with the pitchers. They might get hit at some point. Still early. Maybe a new third baseman would help. And of course they lost their closer.
With guaranteed contracts, what else is he going to do, fire everyone?
“A fool and his money are soon parted.”
I don’t see how anyone sees the Mets doing bad as a surprise. Just look at last season. They were fire for like the first month and a half and then came back down to earth for the rest of the season. The Braves were average for the first 2 months and then got it together and took off never looking back. My Phillies were the opposite of the Mets. They looked bad the first 2 months then after they fired Girardi they turned it around and caught fire. Right now the only non-average team in the NLE is the Braves. Period.
Spending a lot of money in players does not guarantee success. Team chemistry and how guys play together are things that can’t be bought. That’s why a lot of the best teams have a blend of rookies and veterans.
You have to buy the RIGHT players. The Braves and as much as I dislike them, the Dodgers are teams that are good at that, and that is reflected by the consistent success on the field in recent years.
It costs a lot of money to be so mediocre every season.
The one positive is they really did themselves a favor by backing out from signing Correa. Had they signed him, it would just be another mistake and longterm drain on this pathetic organization
“I’d like to take this opportunity to trash the city of Pittsburgh because I’m butt hurt that my team, who essentially operate as the Yankees, and I claim to hate that, just lost two of three to what I’d consider an inferior team”
-every Mets fan I had to endure this weekend. Here’s an idea…go home. I can’t wait to see what the increase to my trash bill is this month. It’s not enough to turn your own city into a dump, let’s turn others into one too.
Cohen frustrated? About what? His team gets to spend a ton of money getting any player that Cohen wants.
Look at the suffering that us poor fans of certain teams have to endure. Even when combining some of our teams’ payrolls, we don’t match the Mets payroll.
Frustrated?
Stevie Cohen, before you feel frustrated, think about how it feels to be a fan of a team that can’t spend as much as you can on your Mets.
Do you think 2023 is enjoyable for Orioles, Rays, Pirates and Marlins fans? Our teams’ combined payrolls don’t even come within $50 million of the Mets payroll. Stevie Cohen and Mets fans are frustrated with this season? Really? How do you all think Orioles, Rays, Pirates and Marlins fans feel about this season? Well, I can tell you that we feel…
Actually I’m pretty sure they feel great (except for you apparently). Rays have the best record in baseball, the Orioles are 2nd in the standings behind them, The pirates are in contention in a poor division, and your Marlins are in second place right now.
I think his frustration is that the Marlins front office hasn’t made deals at the trade deadline when the team has had a chance. If Kim Ng doesn’t add anyone in July with the way the Marlins are playing right now, it would be very frustrating for that fanbase.
@acoss13
That is a good statement and observation, but this post I made was more in good humor and jabbing at the Mets being worse off than all 4 of the teams I mentioned, while spending more money on payroll than all 4 of those teams combined.
@ButCantHePitch
I guess you didn’t get the humor in my post.
Jose Quintana, Carlos Carrasco, Justin Verlander and Max Sherzer would’ve been a good rotation in 2014, In 2023, it’s unrealistic to expect them not to digress significantly.
I for one hate big spending teams, You idiots made it financially impossible to watch on TV or at the ballpark. The Cincy Reds, Tampa Rays are the teams to watch. Fk the Mets Yankees and Dodgers.
There’s no correlation. In fact, most concessions are run by vendors who aren’t owned by the team. They make the prices, not big spending owners. There are 2 main vendors across the MLB. A lot of small market teams have the same vendors as big market teams (i.e. Aeromark) So the reason you provided for hating big-spending teams is completely bogus.
Send Vince Coleman and some fire crackers.
Poor Steve. He just found out money doesn’t always buy happiness. Especially in baseball. Too many Lindors who take the money and then coast through the contract looking very pretty.
Guy is treating his MLB team like a fantasy league team. You need to build you team up from the ground and then fill in the missing holes. Look at Baltimore. They were the laughing stock of the MLB for a number of years but now have a very competitive team and they didn’t break the bank.
The O’s should spend and break the back too after tanking.
Cohen has done nothing to damper the Mets building young talent. In fact, he spent a ton of money on development. It’s not like he traded prospects away for Verlander and Scherzer. This idea that spending and building have to be mutual exclusive is fundamentally flawed. You can do both.
W inflation through the roof. 400 million will get u a lot less next year
Maybe so, but it will still buy enough hotdogs for Vogelslug.
This week the underachieving Mets host the underachieving Yankees for a 2-game series in Queens. Should the home team drop both games to the Bombers — Wednesday’s game is an ESPN exclusive — social media will ensure that LOLmets endures without end.
At least that Lindor contract is up after 2031.
The 2022 Mets were the 2021 Giants of 2022, and the 2023 Mets are the 2022 Giants of 2023. 101 wins was a fluke. Unless you think that Max Scherzer, Starling Marte, Mark Canha, Eduardo Escobar, and 2 months of Daniel Vogelbach were worth 24 extra wins. Strider was right, they had a lot of lucky moments.
You are correct. It would have never happened under him because he would’ve never paid anybody’s salaries in the first place.
i grew up watching papa steinbrenner overreact to terrible effect but i still prefer that to a guy who sounds like one of those management manuals you find in airport bookstores
Oh you are speaking my language, bro! Spot on comment!
George was entertaining for sure but he didn’t have to deal with the luxury tax and int’l draft pool money. It was a lot easier then to cover up his mistakes. There was a ton of dysfunction which made for good drama for the fans.
george was a huge net negative and the dynasty would not have happened if he hadn’t been suspended but at least he had a personality (unlike his son)
He did also want to trade Mo and his people talked him out of it.
Mets should take notes on how the Marlins run an organization.
I’m confused is he the owner or the gm?
Yes.
Must be nice. There is at least one person in baseball I am jeleous of….