TODAY: Thomson told Matt Gelb and other reporters that Painter received good news in his tests, as the right-hander’s UCL looks to be healing. Painter will remain in shutdown mode while the Phillies continue to monitor the situation and until the elbow soreness subsides, but it seems as though there isn’t anything overtly wrong with Painter’s arm.
JULY 7: Phillies’ top pitching prospect Andrew Painter is headed for evaluation after reporting discomfort in his throwing elbow, manager Rob Thomson informed the beat (including Alex Coffey of the Philadelphia Inquirer). He’ll be shut down from throwing pending further testing, writes Matt Gelb of the Athletic.
Thomson declined to provide specifics on the evaluation or a timeline for when the club would have more information. The skipper did suggest he’s at least somewhat alarmed by the situation. “Well, I’m concerned,” Thomson told reporters. “You’re always concerned when guys are sore. We’ll know more after we get the test back.”
It’s an ominous continuation of arm issues that have bothered the right-hander for the bulk of the year. Painter turned heads early in Spring Training and looked to have a strong chance at securing an Opening Day rotation spot before his 20th birthday. He sprained the UCL in his throwing elbow midway through exhibition play, however, requiring a multi-week shutdown.
That obviously killed any chance of Painter breaking camp. The Phils still held out hope for a midseason return. The 6’7″ hurler was scheduled to throw to hitters this week for the first time since March. Once he felt some soreness, they modified that plan to have him throw a bullpen session instead. Painter came out of that with renewed elbow discomfort, necessitating further testing.
With more uncertainty regarding Painter’s timetable for a return to game action, the Phillies could face some urgency to add rotation help in the coming weeks. Gelb reports that the Phils have told opposing clubs they were monitoring Painter’s rehab before deciding whether to turn to the trade market for starting pitching.
Philadelphia has an established front four of Zack Wheeler, Aaron Nola, Ranger Suárez and Taijuan Walker. They’ve rotated through various options in the final spot. Bailey Falter got the first look but struggled to a 5.13 ERA in eight appearances before being optioned to the minors. Matt Strahm got a season-opening rotation job while Suárez was injured. He pitched well, but the Phils have seemingly preferred to use him in the bullpen to keep an eye on his workload.
Left-hander Cristopher Sánchez has had the job of late. The 26-year-old has had a strong month, working to a 2.84 ERA on the back of a massive 55.6% grounder rate through five starts. Whether Sánchez keeps performing at that level could also impact the deadline calculus for president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski and his front office staff.
Not great.
Not great at all.
Not great at all whatsoever.
Not great, at all, whatsoever, anyway you “slice” it.
One step closer to the inevitable Tommy John surgery
I’m a hockey guy and a baseball guy, I can’t speak with tons of knowledge towards basketball or football BUT in no other position or sport can you see a surgery coming like you can see a Tommy John. You almost as soon as there is a “forearm sprain” or “elbow discomfort” just get the TJ and be ready 12-18 months from then
How do you treat painters elbow?
Lifestyle and home remedies
Your doctor may recommend the following self-care measures:
Rest. Avoid activities that aggravate your elbow pain.
Pain relievers. Try over-the-counter pain relievers, such as ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin IB) or naproxen (Aleve).
Ice. Apply ice or a cold pack for 15 minutes three to four times a day.
Technique. Make sure that you are using proper technique for your activities and avoiding repetitive wrist motions.
Doctor: You know, you could have just taken two Alleve once a day for a week.
John Means: Wait. What?
Might be best to get it over with. He’s way ahead of schedule as far as development goes.
Just go ahead and have the damn surgery. If he gets it now he might return end of next year. Wait until the fall and he’s gone until ‘25.
Preemptive Tommy John surgery. That’s an excellent choice! May I interest you in our Extended Warranty program on your new Tommy? All Tommys are covered under this program. If your new Tommy fails, we will replace it for free! Just pay a nominal fee for shipping and handling.
TJ surgery is incoming
Painter reminds me of Alex Reyes. The only difference is that Reyes did pitch some MLB games.
The other difference is Alex Reyes always had questionable control that made some people question his future as a starter. Painter, not so much.
Painter is a much better prospect than Reyes was. Better control, no character issues, deeper arsenal. Reyes was no slouch and he was a ton of fun on callup but there were red flags even before the injuries wrecked his career. Too soon to start comping Painter to a guy like him IMO.
He’s 6’7” weighs 175 pounds and throws 1 million miles an hour. I’m not sure how this wasn’t accepted as being inevitable.
Tommy John Surgery. Another one. Good thing they didn’t get it done months ago. Lol cracks me up all these surgeries that could be avoided if these guys knew how to PITCH instead of 100 mph and high strike out percentages.
This dude actually can pitch. I agree, a lot of these guys cant but they are out there trying to make the Show. But why would a kid potentially needing surgery ‘crack you up’… your parents must be proud.
Read it again. Pay attention to what you are reading. All these unnecessary surgeries the past few years you just gotta laugh at the stupidity……does anyone ever learn? Anyone? Ever? Nope. You probably don’t know what I’m talking about.
Stop talking, troll
Prior to TJ surgery these guys just faded away. The MLB lifespan of a pitcher is 1.112 years longer than it was in the 1960s and 1970s. That is 1 year, 112 days longer.
Talk numbers all you want. Things are different now. I’ve been following baseball a very long time. Tommy John surgery started in the 1970s. They didn’t miss that problem on a lot of pictures and they just faded away because nobody saw it.
I mean, it’s been less than 50 years since MRI technology became commercially avaiable. CT scans are another technology that came within the last 50 years. Ultrasounds have been around for just over 50 years in the US. The kind of technology that makes basic screening for muscle strains/tears a thing is still fairly new in the grand scheme of things.
Pitchers pitch longer today BECAUSE we have medical technology and surgery like TJ today and they didn’t then. In the 60s and 70s those pitchers careers were just over.
@baseballislife, could the shorter career span have anything to do with it being the pre free agency era and most ball players having to work winter jobs just to make ends meet? Maybe once they hit their 30’s they hung up the spikes to take a full time job?
Players haven’t worked a winter job out of necessity since WWII.
There’s a lot of guys who are ‘throwers’ and not ‘pitchers’, but when you have a BB/9 under 1.0 at Double-A and overall walk rate of 6.2% in 2022, that’s someone who is a pitcher.
Once again you can throw numbers around and make things look like whatever you want. My original comment wasn’t all about one pitcher even if it started that way. The article was about one guy but if anyone knew how to look past the surface and analyze things you would see that players are getting injured at incredible rates. It’s just that simple. Look at the guys in their early 20s needing surgery. You argue points because you really don’t understand.
THIS season pitchers are getting injured at a higher rate than in past years. Not sure that is the case for seasons in the 60s and 70s. I can check though.
I’m not arguing any points here. Yes, I know guys are getting injured at incredible rates. There have been 47 players who have had TJ surgery in the 2020s. Ony four players underwent the surgery through the first three years of the 1990s. There’s an epidemic of TJ surgeries. I just don’t know the answer. There’s probably not one solution, if there is even one.
I’m also going to stop right here because I realize what I’m dealing with and you just keep thinking you know what you are talking about.
I think this is an issue beyond just throwing hard=TJ surgery. There are multiple factors at play here. In my opinion, kids throwing breaking stuff, and putting more torque on their arm trying to throw big sliders is more damaging than throwing 99-100 MPH consistently. I am not a doctor, so I can’t say for certain if harder and big sliders/curveballs/cutters are more damaging than a hard fastball. Second thing is kids starting at a young age and pitching all year around. They go from spring, to summer, fall ball, winter clinics, and travel ball in between all of it. Then off to high school, then college ball. In my area, kid pitch started when I was 9. I had friends who were still pitching into college after starting that young. By the time you’re 30, 35, you have like 20-25 years on your arm already. Thing thing is that humans are getting better at detecting injuries. Everytime a guy has a strain, even if it’s just a hyperextension, they’re sent in for a medical evaluation, involving some sort of MRI, ct scan, xray, or ultrasound. Most of that technology didn’t become commercially avaiable until the 70s. Another thing some have pointed out is just being overly careful with arms. There’s a difference between letting a guy completley grind his arm out, and making him throw 150 pitches, and letting a guy just go out and pitch without a specific innings limit/pitch count. I don’t think we’ve learned yet what that fine line is, though.
I saw this after I posted my last comment. Just stop. You are trying way to hard.
Trying way to hard too what? It’s an issue with multiple different causes, and potentially no concrete solution. It’s not all caused by throwing hard.
I feel like the main issue is because younger kids are throwing more and more off speed pitches. That’s a lot of wear and tear
#1 contributor to elbow and shoulder injuries is velocity. Source on that is Dr. Andrews. #2 is the fact that kids are playing baseball all year round. They don’t get to rest. #3 is kids no longer play multiple sports.
By the time they are 10 they are on traveling teams and just playing baseball and most just one or two positions. Repetitive stress is an issue when you do only activity.
In the past, there was a lot more manual labor. Raking the leaves, shoveling the snow, plowing the fields, chopping wood, etc. People, and more on point, athletes, were conditioned differently. Not necessarily better but differently.
Pitchers used their lower bodies much more. They relied less on their arms and speed, which resulted in them being able to pitch longer.
Today, all the emphasis is put on how fast, and how much movement, you throw for each of your pitches. How fast you throw gets the attention of coaches, managers, scouts, and everyone who has an influence as to how far and how fast your career will progress. It’s the way of the world today. Faster is seen as always better.
There are physical limitations as to what a body can do. The arm can only take so much stress before the UCL snaps. The harder you throw, the faster the ball travels, and the more stress you put on your ligament. Players today are certainly getting injured more often than in the past.
I could write a lot more but I wanted to keep my post to a fast and short read. Faster is better, right?
Two things to keep in mind. Before players starting making huge salaries they were treated as expendable, and not the assets that they are now. So guys from Smoky Joe Wood, in the 19-teens to Sandy Koufax, were routinely expected to pitch through injuries. They didn’t go on what was the DL with forearm tightness, or whatever. And they had shorter careers. Now with teams having a different concept of players as expensive assets, combined with the medical technologies to diagnose and understand injuries, players are put on the IL much more readily.
And as to the cause being too much work, guys that have pitched their whole lives, have fewer arm injuries than guys that switched from other positions. Studies have shown that muscle develops faster than connective tissue, and the former have thicker, stronger tendons and ligaments. The latter can have musculature out of balance with the connective tissue, leading to injuries. Throwing a lot is actually better in terms of avoiding arm injuries.
Phillies in need of a Painter.
Hopefully it’s not Painters Elbow
Well done.
Or Lance Painter.
No, Blue Baron. No!
Obvious to us armchair orthopedists that they should have just rebuilt that elbow after the original injury in spring but hey what do we know were always right.
How are the other SP prospects doing ?
Abel has been a bit underwhelming. Griff McGarry has looked solid but is issuing a bit too many walks.
He was fine and moving along and the Phillies made him start throwing a cutter and screwed his arm up. Awesome.
Not surprised. This smelled like the Seranthony beat around the bush.
Laughs in pain
I was at the March game when Painter made his debut vs. the Twins in Fort Myers, Fla. Along with about two dozen other Phillies fans, we hovered above the bullpen area in right field and watched Painter warm up.
Had so much loud pop on his pitches that I suspect someday blind people will attend his games just to listen to him pitch.
As I recall, he only pitched an inning that day and gave up a run. Don’t recall him pitching in another ST game.
If it’s a toss up between TJ surgery or rehabbing, get the TJ now.
Get the surgery
See ya’ in 2025 at the Jersey Shore Blue Claws..
very very bad news for the Phillies! we finally had a stud pitching Prospect about to make his debut Since Aaron Nola and now this. I have a hard time believing that this will not end up with him having Tommy John surgery within the next 2 months.
hopefully they don’t waste too much time and hoping it gets better with rest like they tried to do from spring training all the way up until this most recent setback if it’s looking like he has to have Tommy John, please just get it you’ll miss the rest of the season obviously and chances are you will miss all next year. if you don’t miss all the next year you might be eligible to return maybe in September of 2024 but my guess would be he would be ready to go for spring training in 2025
I can stop holding my breath now…TJ surgery and 18 months of waiting are coming up…almost every kid that throws 100 mph ends up under the knife…But I can tell you one who won’t (IMO)…Paul Skenes…he throws effortlessly and has the body to handle the stress on his elbow…I predict he ends up throwing the fastest pitch ever, which is 105.8 by Aroldis Chapman…Get better soon Andrew, my Scoresheet teams need you.
Just get the TJ surgery out of the way now. Maybe he’s back before the start of 2025 then.
Wow not the news that I expected. I’m glad he’s ok.
You treat Painters elbow with painters tape
Dude is gonna sit out the year then lose another 18 months when has Tommy John
I’m not saying get the TJ surgery or not but it always seems to turn into TJS in situations like this with a lot of wasted time resting.
It seems like it is going to happen regardless if you rest it or not. I think these pitchers who have partial tears or soreness should be out there a lot quicker and pushed a bit more. Its better to find out sooner rather than later and a pitcher can either compensate and deal with the pain or they can’t and have to get the surgery. Doesn’t ever seem to get better, just something you have to work around.
Hard to believe there are so many stupid baseball fans out there!!!!!