The Reds have been in contact with the White Sox as they search for rotation help, reports Jon Morosi of MLB.com (on Threads). Specific targets aren’t reported, though it’s not hard to infer which players could be of interest.
Lucas Giolito is arguably the sport’s most apparent trade candidate. The right-hander is an impending free agent and has a 3.45 ERA through 19 starts. He’s striking out a little more than a quarter of opponents against a modest 7.3% walk rate. While Giolito’s velocity and whiffs are down marginally from a 2019-21 stretch that saw him post a 3.47 ERA in 72 appearances, he has rebounded nicely from a down 2022 season.
With the White Sox now 17 games below .500, they’re predictably approaching the deadline as sellers. The Sox aren’t expected to make a strong run at re-signing Giolito, whose upcoming free agent deal is likely to easily eclipse Chicago’s franchise-record $75MM guarantee for Andrew Benintendi.
He’d be a lock to receive and reject a qualifying offer that would afford Chicago draft compensation if he signs elsewhere. They’ll almost certainly receive more compelling prospect offers in the next couple weeks though. The Dodgers have already checked in and virtually every contender figures to be in touch with Chicago GM Rick Hahn before August 1.
Giolito is playing this season on a $10.4MM arbitration salary. Around $3.35MM will be remaining from the deadline onwards. Cincinnati GM Nick Krall has indicated the club has the payroll flexibility to accommodate midseason trade targets. Rotation help is the obvious area to do so.
While Giolito would be the more appealing target for other teams, Chicago seems likely to move veteran righty Lance Lynn as well. The 36-year-old carries a career-high 6.03 ERA over 103 innings but has much better strikeout and walk marks. Lynn is fanning hitters at a strong 27.9% clip against an average 8.1% walk rate. His biggest issue, an MLB-worst 22 home runs allowed, could be a tough fit at Cincinnati’s very hitter-friendly Great American Ball Park. Still, the durability Lynn provides would be welcome for a Reds’ rotation light on experience at present.
Lynn is making $18.5MM this season. His contract contains an $18MM club option that seems likely to be bought out for $1MM. With the two-time All-Star likely headed to free agency next winter, the Sox figure to look for trade possibilities this month. That’s also true of Mike Clevinger, whose contract contains a $12MM mutual option the team will likely buy out for $4MM. They could be hard-pressed to find interest in Clevinger considering the fairly lofty buyout price and biceps inflammation that has had him on the injured list for a month.
There’s less urgency on either Dylan Cease or Michael Kopech. Both pitchers are eligible for arbitration through 2025. The asking price on either player — Cease especially — would be significantly higher than what the Sox would expect for even their top rental in Giolito. Jon Heyman of the New York Post suggested earlier this week that Chicago could be willing to hear offers on Kopech but wasn’t interested in parting with Cease.
Cincinnati is surely in contact with a number of teams as they explore rotation possibilities. Tonight’s 1-0 loss to the Brewers dropped them into a tie with Milwaukee for first place in the NL Central. They’re still positioned as deadline buyers, of course, with a rotation that ranked 28th in ERA (5.69) entering play Friday standing as the big concern. Nick Lodolo and Hunter Greene are on the injured list. Cincinnati has rookie Andrew Abbott at the top of the rotation, followed by Graham Ashcraft, Ben Lively, Brandon Williamson and Luke Weaver. The latter two pitchers have struggled.
How about Twins starters? Gray for Christian Encarnacion-Strand? XD
The problem is that the Twins are pretenders since they are in the AL Central. Also, a 1.000 OPS guy in the minors is way too much to give up for a few months of Gray (or anyone really).
@deGrom, I think the joke is the Twins traded CES to the Reds in a separate trade. Also sent the Reds Steer… in deference to Miranda
Lol NL Central isn’t that much better. RedSox are in last place in AL east but would be a game and a half out of first in the NL Central
Lol good one…I wouldn’t mind having Gray back but it would take more to get Strand
I wouldn’t do that. Gray will be a FA at season’s end. Just sign him then. The Reds aren’t likely to go that far if they reach the playoffs at all this season. I would hang on to CES to be the first baseman or DH going forward.
Interest, yes. Is it all talk though is the question. This front office doesn’t have a good track record of bringing in proven major league talent.
Mat Latos existed once. Sonny Gray was there, too. I heard Latos had a bad work ethic, and he apparently last played in independent baseball last year. It’s a shame how a 5-6 K/BB pitcher in the minors underperformed like that.
this front office wasn’t there when they traded for Latos
Latos was a head case.. His now exwife was his biggest problem. She was in both of them..
The normally frosty Latos got a cat at his family’s behest. The cat’s twitter handle was – Cat Latos
WSox in order to land a really good prospect probably have to combine rental of Giolito with either Graveman (1yr extra control) or Lynn (club option).
Cincy/Balt/Texas have the depth to give it a go without putting a dent in its plans beyond this season. Should be interesting to see how that shakes out.
Which pretty much puts the Reds out. They have the most untouchables, which makes sense. I’d rather they win for 5-7 years than go all in for one.
You can’t fall in love with prospects. You go for it when you can because nothing is certain in the future.
I agree. I can’t see Giolito getting back a top 100 prospect. They also in the last couple years have been slower to pull the trigger, with Giolito not wanting to be in Chicago, I can see them offering the qualifier and taking the comp pick, then Hahn can explain that: “they didn’t feel they were getting enough back”
It’s like the Sox have set up shop. “You want a pitcher? Well, I’ve got this beauty right here. Low mileage, good strikeout rate, handles pitches real well. If you’re looking for a huskier model, we’ve got one of those. Also good strikeout rate, low walks-” “What about this? It says he gives up a lot of home runs.” “That’s normal for this older model. But we’ve got someone working on it right now. Anyone else? We’ve got another starter and a reliever we’d be willing to part with for a rock-bottom return value. A shortstop? Second baseman? Oh, wait. I hear we’re out of those. Come back in another five years. We may have one in stock by then. Come on, folks! Whatever you want, we’ll sell ’em. No offer too small.”
Wouldn’t the reds be far better off using their prospect capital to get a controllable starter beyond this year? Giolito is nice but the reds presumably should be better in 24,25 than this year. Lance Lynn seems like the better fit considering prospect cost. Lynn probably pitches alot better once he gets on a team who’s in the playoff picture.
The reds seem like pretenders considering the rotation they have. How they’ve got this far with that rotation I’ll never know.
No. Absolutely not. If they trade even one Rookie Ball kid for Lynn, that’s waving a white flag. I’ll be pissed if they do. Keep him as far away from GABP as possible..
Giolito took a step back when the sticky stuff went away, that being said his change is nasty, and though Ethan Katz is his guy, any instruction is better than what he gets on the Southside.. Lynn has shown the end of career arm where he needs to hem and haw around the plate, his control is off, and so I would imagine a coaching up would be less efficient as he might just be losing that movement with age.
Lance Lynn and Keynan Middleton for Noelvi Marte ++
Your trade request was denied. -Reds Front Office
Marte is a given for any acquisition, so if that’s the non-startee for you then you should probably work on getting over that. Reds are going to trade for a good starting pitcher, and no good starting pitcher costs less than Marte.
The only way Marte is moved for Gioloto is if the Reds feel they cannot find a spot for him in the everyday lineup. Otherwise, how prospect stock is way too high for a rental SP in a year that they are not expected to contend for a title.
If that’s truly the Reds take, then they will never win. Someone else is going to benefit from Giolito while the Reds fall off. Too often teams horde prospects in their window only to watch it slam shut because they never went for it.
If you had told me 2 years ago that the White Sox would be selling to the Reds in 2023, I would have laughed you out of the room. What a rise and fall.
When exactly did they rise?
In regards to trades, I can’t count on the Sox office to do that right.
Giolito for Edwin Arroyo. straight up
Maybe Acosta and another lower prospect..
Crank, do you have a prescription for what you’re smoking’?
noooo….its from the streets
Reds should do that deal if offered. Arroyo is a great defender but has been pretty awful as a hitter since being traded to the Reds, and they already have an insane amount of infielders both in the majors and minors.
The Reds aren’t going to trade one of their top prospects for a two month rental. Not gonna happen.
Ohtani for Arroyo, Hinds, Jay Allen and Bryce Hubbart seems more doable. I’d do that deal for Dylan Cease too.
It’s going to take a lot more than that for either of those players.
Cease for Marte/CES/Phillips – that’s an excellent haul for a TOR arm
thats a lot to pay, whiff
If the reds are going to spend a lot of prospect capital, they should go for Ohtani, if he’s moved. There’s no way they would sign him in free agency and a half season of Ohtani is better than none. The young players could learn a little from him but Giolito would be a waste of decent prospects imo. Bieber looks to be injured, and other available arms aren’t controllable beyond this year. Reds might have the best prospects, I say they should go after Ohtani or bring in one of the cheaper rentals. Unless a more controllable arm like Civale or Burnes becomes available.
They’re not going to sell their entire future for half a season of Ohtani.
They probably wouldn’t have to give up too much for Ohtani. I think everyone here is overestimating the return on 2 months of Ohtani.
I’m not saying Cincy should give up anyone on the major league squad but if they offered CES, plus a nice pitching prospect it wouldn’t hurt the MLB team. Arte probably won’t trade Ohtani anyways but Cincy can’t have your attitude without knowing the potential cost.
I would pay to watch an unedited unfiltered feed of gms reading some of the comments on here. Just so I can record it and show some of you people how hard they would laugh at some of the ridiculous things you people say. There would be a lot of people with hurt feelings.
@iverbure
Yeah especially the commenters who are so sure of their opinions and disregard the fact that these negotiations are fluid.
Acting like one team with a lot of prospects can’t afford a rental, even if it’s Ohtani, is just foolish.
We will see. Don’t be mad when I say I told you so. I will be saying it often every time you post something.
Lmao…as a cards fan this trade makes sense right?
@jason
What trade Ohtani to or Giolito?
Reports are out there that Cincy is contacting teams about pitching. They have tons of prospects, why not trade for a top line SP? There might be only 4-5 teams with more top ranked prospects, it makes sense to spend some if they think they can win it all this year. I’m not even suggesting they move guys off the ML roster.
Yo Tony, when you say Gio is a pending free agent, are you referring to his contract or marital status…or both?
I’ll give you L. Lynne for a box o rox
Rox in Sox? I don’t see it happening
Franchise high contract OF with an OPS of 716? Rough… but not surprising.
Or you could call the Tigers about Erod and/or old friend Lorenzen. Cam Collier would start that conversation nicely.
Dylan Cease should be the only WS SP the reds have interest in.
Zeus: The issue there is KW and Hahn will finally be fired due to fed up fans/apathy and they are not allowed to trade either of Cease or Robert.
The asking price for Giolito starts at the Mahle level of last year. A team is going to have to give up prospects rates 55/45/40 on the top prospects scale and the Reds don’t have anything the CWS need. They have INF and no quality almost ready MLB pitching.
Mahle’s not a good comp. He had a year and a half of team control when the Twins acquired him. Giolito might be a better pitcher but he’s a pending free agent.
Cease isn’t getting traded and I would be surprised if California native Giolito doesn’t end up in LA.
Lance Lynn is the realistic option here. Reds will have an option for next year if Lynn produces and Graveman could be a multi year pickup too. Texas has interest. I’m sure other teams as well.
Lance Lynn for Nick Senzel.
Senzel has been leapfrogged on the depth chart and doesn’t really figure to be in Cincinnati’s plans going forward. The White Sox have an opportunity to put Senzel at 2B every day for the next two years.
Cincinnati can make this move and not give up any prospect capital, allowing them to make additional moves. The White Sox dump Lynn’s salary and take a flyer on a guy eith more upside than a
Makes all the sense in the world. Sox have been trying to patch that 2B hole for a while and a rental like Lynn can eat innings for the Reds whether he provides quality starts or not.
Lance Lynn for Nick Senzel.
Senzel has been leapfrogged on the depth chart and doesn’t really figure to be in Cincinnati’s plans going forward. The White Sox have an opportunity to put Senzel at 2B every day for the next two years.
Cincinnati can make this move and not give up any prospect capital, allowing them to make additional moves. The White Sox take a flyer on a guy who has more immediate value and more upside than whatever non-prospect Lynn would bring back in a typical salary dump trade.
Would take more than Senzel to get Lynn. Plus, Senzel mostly plays 3B and OF.
If the Reds want to hold on to most of their prospect capital rather than gamble on this season, they could try something like Senzel plus Hinds for a back of the rotation arm like Trevor Williams.
Lynn has sucked this year, and Reinsdorf wants Lynn’s salary off the books. If the Reds agree to take the entire $6 million, they probably don’t need to offer anything more than Senzel.
Lynn was competing for AL Cy Youngs regularly and Senzel has never been league average. Texas and 10 other teams can beat that deal.
2 of his last 4 games have been double digit strikeouts.
Unless you happen to have a great Org, most teams will never make it to the World Series. I get that Orgs all say ‘we want to have a competitive window of years so we have to keep these guys as part of our talent pool’, but lets be real, all orgs would chop something off to get a WS win, or even a whiff at it. They win and they punch their ticket for an almost lifetime post at their Org, even if mediocre (See Kenny Williams) or appears to have lost the fan base years ago (See Brian Cashman). If there is a good enough org that keeps finding and developing good players, they definitely would not think twice about moving one or two for that piece they need, so I doubt that is the issue.
Now, is Gio that guy? I doubt it, but maybe a motivated pitcher in a good org will do that, I just think someone like Ohtani is the guy you empty the system for as he is just unreal, but not someone like Giolito (or Lynn). They may be decent pitchers, but Im not expecting the Sox to get top level talent for them.
Now, maybe Hahn runs into a bit of luck and a team looking for pitching is stocked with good young players, and have an org constantly churning them out so that is not the issue. Or are desperate enough to pay a small fortune for that guy after all.
However, I do not trust Hahn and the Sox org to:
A) Get the ‘right’ player who has the want and desire and talent to be that guy.
B) They do, I doubt the Sox can develop them into great players.
Its really sad to be a fan of an org who just keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That the player needs to be amazing because they sure as hell will not get any development from the org. That’s the White Sox at this point. The Sox had a TON of potential a few years ago, but it was just that. Many of the same guys they were expecting to develop into great players, they are still waiting on. Poor management, poor coaching, poor minor league systems is what put the Sox where they are at. As that has not changed then Sox fans are in for another mediocre ‘window’.
The Sox not developing players is a stupid statement. Look at this team Vaughn, Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, Giolito, Lopez and Cease all were drafted or traded for and entered through their minor league system. Now if you were to say that they don’t know how to put a team together or recognize a players ceiling is lower than what the rest of MLB thinks..then that is a correct statement.
The Sox cannot develop great (or even good) players I have not been the only one to say this, so has an exec for another team and the reporting that this org has one of the worst minor league systems in MLB…. Aside from Robert (who was already thought of by EVERYONE to be a natural 5 tool player) and Cease (time will ultimately tell as he apparently has not adjusted to teams who obviously have adjusted to him), who else?As if all of these guys you mentioned were even developed into good players I doubt this team is 17 games under .500. I have seen all of these guys make the same mistakes, fail to drive runs in in key situations, failed to field their position properly, failed to get better (y’know, develop). So is it really just that EVERY player the Sox have picked or traded for has been over estimated? I doubt it. This org is so poorly run, and the minor league system is just abhorrent and filled with guys that may be good, if they were in another org. Even execs for other teams have been quoted as saying the White Sox don’t develop players. I also consider health and conditioning as part of development, but look how many of these.. ahem… ‘developed’ players you mentioned cannot stay on the field? How many preventable soft tissue injuries that are not prevented?
The Reds’ trade of Luis Castillo is costing them even more.