The White Sox have interest in Reds second baseman Jonathan India, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports. This item has some connection to a pair of other recent reports, one from last week about the Reds’ interest in Chicago’s pitchers, and an item from MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand earlier today indicating that the Reds were at least open to consider moving India in a deal for controllable pitching.
However, Wittenmyer pushed back on Feinsand’s report, hearing that the Reds’ willingness to move India was “vastly overstated…and led to conversations assuring one of the most respected players in the clubhouse of the slim-to-none chance he’ll be traded.” Listening to offers out of due diligence doesn’t translate that the Reds are particularly eager to move India, with Wittenmyer indicating that Cincinnati’s talks about India fall “into the category of there’s no such thing as an untouchable player,” rather than the front office actually shopping the second baseman.
An India trade might make sense on paper, given Cincinnati’s glut of young infield talent and the team’s strong need for rotation help for an unexpected playoff push. That said, moving India might not be sensible from a chemistry standpoint, as Spencer Steer, Matt McLain, and Reds manager David Bell all spoke glowingly about India’s importance within the group.
“I don’t think you can really put into words what [India] means to this team,” Steer said. “He’s the guy who addresses the team after wins….He’s been through kind of every phase of what an organization goes through when they’re trying to win. He continues to be a great leader on and off the field, vocally, leading by example through his actions every single day.”
Wittenmyer cited the Brewers’ now-infamous trade of Josh Hader as an example of how a midseason deal that is sensible from a big-picture standpoint can be disastrous to the morale of a team trying to win now, as the Brewers were vocally demoralized in the wake of Hader’s move to the Padres last summer. Obviously the Hader trade has become something of a cautionary tale for front offices, giving Reds GM Nick Krall even more to ponder he looks for ways to bolster his surprise contender.
Of course, the Reds players could warm up to a trade quickly if a major player came back to Cincinnati in return — for instance, Dylan Cease. While Cease is one of four players the White Sox consider next to untouchable in trade talks, India (who is controlled through 2026) might be the kind of building block that might get the Sox considering moving the AL Cy Young Award runner-up. Likewise, in what might be the middle ground between Wittenmyer and Feinsand’s reports, landing a frontline hurler like Cease would be the only scenario that might get Krall and company to part ways with India.
Lucas Giolito is Chicago’s top trade asset heading into the deadline, yet the Reds aren’t at all likely to move India for a pitcher who will be a free agent after the season. Michael Kopech (who, like Cease, is controlled through 2025) could be an interesting target for the Reds, though Cincinnati might be wary of Kopech’s injury history.
Speaking of the Reds’ infield, Kevin Newman returned from the 10-day injured list today after a minimum 10-day absence due to gastritis. The veteran has hit .260/.318/.375 over 225 plate appearances this season, getting a good chunk of time at third base, second base, and shortstop. That said, Newman’s playing time has been reduced since the arrival of McLain, Elly De La Cruz, and now Christian Encarnacion-Strand in Cincinnati’s infield, and with the youngsters taking over, Newman looks like a prime candidate to be moved at the deadline.
Newman’s activation was one of a few transactions made by the Reds today, as righty Levi Stoudt was optioned to Triple-A and Daniel Duarte was called up to bring a fresh arm into the pitching ranks. More notably, catcher Curt Casali was placed on the 10-day injured list (retroactive to July 21) due to a left foot contusion.
With Tyler Stephenson and Luke Maile already on the active roster, the Reds aren’t short in the catching department. Casali and Stephenson began the year in something of a timeshare behind the plate, as the Reds were trying to keep Stephenson healthy after his injury-shortened 2022 by using him regularly at DH and first base. However, with Joey Votto’s return from the IL and the DH position being used to give at-bats to many young hitters, Stephenson has more increasingly taken on a regular catching workload, leaving Casali as an odd man out.
Seems a bit silly to see Dylan Cease and India’s names mentioned together…
nobody’s saying its a 1 for 1 trade. solid starting point
It’s just nonsense for the White Sox to trade Dylan Cease and expect to be competitive in Jonathan India’s timeframe.
India will have 3 years of service time after this season. It’s not like trading Cease for a rookie and resetting things. The WhiteSox aren’t good enough as is. They’re losing 3/5 of the rotation this off-season or even sooner. Dealing Cease for a package starting with India is just dumb.
Unfortunately, it’s hardly “nonsense” with the White Sox no sense front office.
Its the White Sox. They are unlikely to be competitive in a rookies time frame. The team stays to a budget, so needs home grown players, but the cupboard is bare.
This is what I was having trouble with. The only way I can see that this makes sense would be either A. The WS think the package they get from the Reds is the best value they’ll get for Cease before he’s a FA and plan to trade India. Or B. They plan to alter the way they run their team and spend a ton on free agent pitchers. Neither seem very likely so I too am left wondering why they’d be interested in India or any similar player in their return for Cease.
Not really sure why the White Sox want to trade for India, when they already have the beloved Jackie?
Seems a bit ironic that the White Sox are interested in Jonathan India after passing on him in the first round of the 2018 MLB June Amateur Draft. The White Sox selected 2B Nick Madrigal with the #4 pick which allowed India to fall to the Reds at #5.
India was drafted more as a 3B prospect from the University of Florida and continued to get the bulk of his early minor league work at the hot corner before becoming a full time second baseman. Madrigal transitioned from SS to 2B in his final year at Oregon State University and wound up playing the keystone position almost exclusively until the Cubs decided they needed a 3B after the FA signing of SS Dansby Swanson this past offseason which pushed Nico Hoerner to 2B.
In any case, the White Sox are still looking for their core 2B after trading Madrigal to the Cubs in the infamous Craig Kimbrel deal two summer trade deadlines ago when they could have avoided this situation by simply keeping ‘Nicky Two Strikes’ or just drafting India in the first place.
How about Nick Senzel instead of Jonathan India for a rental pitcher like Lance Lynnbilly?
Senzel is basically superfluous to the Reds at this point, but he could play 2B every day for the White Sox, because everybody else they have in-house sucks ass.
Everyone loves India but there’s a legitimate case that Senzel & (even Newman) are more valuable pieces to the Reds than India right now (not better players but better pieces to the puzzle).
.The Reds best lineup ON PAPER would be some version of Votto 1B; McLain 2B; Elly SS; Steer 3B…. Benson, Freidl & Fraley in the outfield…. CES – DH…
Against a lefties who both Senzel & Newman crush & hit significantly better than India. You move Senzel to the outfield along with Steer & bring Newman into the infield for Steer….
The ironic thing is the only real player you could argue starting India over right now (SOLELY BASED ON PERFORMANCE) would be Votto and he’s beloved too…
Votto is up there in age, BA is crap, and just isn’t what he used to be. Contract is almost done as well. Senzel can be the utility guy and solid fill in for injury and rest.
I thought the whole India trade rumors were stupid. This sounds like a much more sane take, in my opinion. India has been the clubhouse leader all season. There were even video packages about how he was a leader and wanted to be one. I honestly would rather see the Reds trade any of the prospects before India to prevent the chemistry from being messed up.
They can have all the chemistry and good times they want, Reds are going nowhere without some starting pitching. India is expendable if they really want to try and become a consistent playoff contender.
You trade India and the team tanks. Period.
Ask Joey Votto and the other 24 guys if they want to see India traded. You may actually get out of the room alive.
Besides, since they have fooled around until after all their games with the Brewers are done, it doesn’t matter anyway. And if the kid GM makes another trade out of desperation, he deserves what he is going to get.
Why do keep calling a grown man a kid. Constant condescending attitude and demeaning to what he has done to help this team turn around. The OWNERSHIP forced him to give away Miley. The OWNERSHIP told him to cut costs. Yet he still managed to get Williamson and Fraley for continually broken down Winker and a no room in this lineup Suarez. The trade you conveniently now don’t mention for Benson because of 2 barely in Low A players. Benson has been their most consistent hitter. Great eye. Very good speed.
You want to keep talking about panicking trades? The OWNERSHIP is the one who pushed for getting rid of Sonny Gray. The only trade that I thought could have been avoided is that one. Even if Petty looks great as a 20 year old in High A. Castillo was not going to sign in Cincy.
They were not going to give him enough. Marte and Connor Phillips and Arroyo is a good return. Marte seems to be overlooked by you. A Reds expert as far as only constantly whining goes.
India is also a Scott Boras client. He isn’t going to sign here long term. His defense is below average. His hitting has been barely average for 2 months. The team is not going to implode if he’s traded for a good starting pitcher.
Don’t worry, any player that you get from the whitesox will bring TWTW, it offsets the loss of chemistry or whatever you believe India brings.
Wasn’t aware he was a Boras client, that’s definitely a reason to swap him out for an area of need. Only real issue with trading India is right now it would be selling low.
That is a decision for year 5 not year 3.
Stat boys, you really kill me.
Reds have pretty good starting pitching,. Hunter Green (needs to get healthy August arrival) – Andrew Abbott – Graham Ashcraft – Nick Lodolo (needs to get healthy August arrival) and Ben Lively is pretty strong. Abbott could be the ace.
I also don’t agree that India is expendable. He’s the heart of this team as a leader. Votto, love him, is TOAST. The Reds can improve simply by moving him out of the daily lineup with a role as a DH against lefties only.
I’d like to see the Reds move Senzel or Newman along with a SS prospect (Jose Barrero) for relief pitching, which is where we are weak/tired.
Graham Ashcraft and Andrew Abbott are locked into the rotation for the next five years.
Ben Lively was a terrific addition, and has clearly earned a spot in the rotation.
Brandon Williamson is still a question mark, but his ERA the past month is 2.25.
Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo are both expected back in the next couple weeks. When they’re activated the Reds will suddenly have six good options for five spots.
So, could the Reds possibly trade for a guy that improves the rotation? Sure. Dylan Cease would probably improve ANY staff. Are they desperate to? Absolutely not. Injuries have made it difficult for a couple months, but at this point, they’ve weathered the storm and won’t have to run Luke Weaver or Levi Stout out there much longer.
And, btw, Connor Phillips is on the way. The prospect rankings haven’t caught up with this kid yet. I don’t care what anybody says, he is the Reds #1 farmhand right now. Period. Full stop.
Pinning all your hopes on injured guys out for who knows how long (Lodolo out til September) and a guy who barely touched AAA illustrates exactly what is wrong with Reds management.
Agreed.
Problem is, there’s NO CHANCE the Reds get Cease for India.
nobody is saying that, cheap.
As a Bengals fan I remember so many people saying the same thing when we didn’t resign CJ Uzomah…. About he was such a great leader & locker room guy everyone loved & it was such a big mistake not to resign him…. Bottom line was just like India he was a Good player but pretty easily replaceable…. And in the Reds case they literally have better replacements on the roster with McLain playing 2B…
Thank you. It’s an overstatement to look at fringe average players and their leadership as the reason why you cannot move in from them.
If they can trade Arroyo. Blake Dunn in AA who is a good hitter with very good speed. Alan Cerda also in AA. And sure throw in Barrero. Senzel. Quantity to get a starter who has another 2 full years available and maybe a rental reliever. That’s great. But if India can get you more. And if not this year then this off season? You’re not going to trade Marte. I don’t think people like this so called Reds expert understands how good this guy is going to be. And CES? Perfect fit for that park. They are even developing their own pitchers.
India is overrated
said the perennial bucs honk
If the Reds could get Dylan Cease for India and not much else, you have to do that deal. Reds need pitching and India isn’t going to be part of the long term anyway. I agree India does provide a lot of leadership to team but he will likely be dealt in off season if not now as Reds have other prospects that will make it up next year. Cease is a big time pitcher and innings horse. Reds need that desperately. There bullpen is on fumes and it is only July..
They can’t.
Lol. It’s not like they are trading against the dodgers or Yankees. A white sox fan May know better but why expect anything out of white sox ownership ??
And why would india be a target for them in the first place ? Reds system is absolutely loaded with top end talent so my not some players that are just hitting majors or in upper minors instead of three years of India ? It’s bc white sox leadership is stupid in the first place.
So if reds can get cease for an india, petty, Hinds package – reds have to take it ! And imo cease to reds is going to happen.
Cy young candidate for a second baseman averaging an OPS in the low 700’s? Not unless the Sox are tearing down the franchise for an A’s style move to a new state willing to give them a taxpayer funded real estate deal.
Cease is a Cy Young candidate???? Hahaha
He wasn’t a Cy Young candidate last year? My bad, got my facts wrong.
He finish 2nd last year.
Cease might be a contender again this season if the Sox bullpen didn’t specialize in blowing saves for the SP. Just this weekend both Gio and Cease left with leads only to see the BP blow both leads. I seriously doubt that even the Sox would trade a pitcher like Cease, especially with Gio, Lynn and Clevinger all but gone. Then again, this is the same FO that has been satisfied without getting a 2b man for three seasons in a row now so you never know what they’re going to – or not going to – do next.
Cy Young voting isn’t determined by pitcher wins anymore. You aren’t trading for 2022 Cease, it’s 2023…no, he’s not a cy young candidate unless he finishes the year on some type of ridiculous run.
He is a great pitcher but no one will ever call him an inning horse. He’ll give you 5 innings per start.
Brewers = Reds daddy
It sure helps to have a Catcher who keeps stealing more strikes than a Marvin Miller led union.
The stupidity of these umpires who can’t call a pitch when it comes over the plate. Having to wait for the catcher to frame it for him. Outstanding integrity. And that goes for the majority of them. You can’t figure this out as umpires already.
The guy behind the plate last night was about the worst. Do they actually grade these guys or do they just cower behind their union and keep allowing it.
The Brewers have a better pitching staff. There’s no doubt. They also keep getting the most generous calls due to their Gold Glove. No. Medal of Deceit catcher framing. You keep wondering why Reds hitters swing at bad pitches more so against them. Then you see the calls being made. You don’t know what a strike or ball is at most times.
I commend the Brewers ability to fool these umps and actually cheat their way to strikes. Legally. Thanks umpires Union.
Cower…look how many truly awful umpires continue to influence games
Heh, the Brewers blame that collapse on a bunch of adults being so sad about a trade they just couldn’t go on and be good at their jobs anymore? Man, the stories we tell ourselves.
Buddy, us Brewer fans are still more concerned about the Cubs and EVEN the cardinals making a run than the Reds…lol
Don’t worry, only 2 more games against us and you won’t see us anymore 🙂
I think you might be wise to re-direct your concern pal. I’m a Dodgers fan, but even way out here on the West coast I can tell that the Reds are the team to beat in your division.
That’s your juvenile retort? That 2 teams who haven’t smelled 500 in months if at all are what the Brewers would be worried about. I’m sure they can trade for players with high salaries better than the Reds can sure. But besides DAF trolling with only assumptions. What exactly makes you think they will make any run to threaten anyone.
The Cardinals are clearly selling and gearing up towards 2024.
The Cubs are the bigger question mark heading into the trade deadline. With a solid week they likely won’t sell. That in itself shouldn’t worry the Brewers or the Reds if Jed Hoyer & Co. stand pat. If the Cubs become serious buyers the degree of apprehension in Milwaukee and Cincinnati could very well increase.
They certainly have the money to add. I agree that there should be worry but more after the season. Both those teams will probably be aggressive in FA. The Cardinals barely tolerate not making the playoffs. They will be aggressive
I understand everyone excepts another run like 2011 when ATL more choked as much as STL won. 2021 was obviously a run that just doesn’t happen every what? 5-10 years. This Cardinals team has no pitching compared to those 2 teams.
The Cubs aren’t buying. They’re either standing pat or selling.
The Crew do have the Reds number, but when the Crew miss the playoffs, it really won’t matter much.
Also how blind are you? This Reds are full of kids, they’re good now, and will be even better over the next 6 years.
That sounds like what WS fans were saying a few years ago.
I’d be more concerned with the Brewer’s management. Going to arbitration and trying to save a bit of money by arguing that the failure to make the playoffs was mostly Corbin Burnes’ fault… there’s a morale killer for you.
Nice game by the Reds tonight 🙂
Was the homeplate ump on the Brewers 40 man roster? He should be, as he helped your team to at least 2 runs.
Is the Hader trade really the best example? I’m sure clubhouse chemistry is real to an extent, but at the same time, it’s not like Milwaukee completely collapsed. They were literally 1 game away from winning the final Wild Card spot in 2022.
1.5 yrs away from free agency is as good a time as any to try to sell high on a reliever, especially one making $14 M this season. The immediate pieces in the Hader trade didn’t pay off, but it did lead to William Contreras, a very controllable offensive-minded catcher, and Payamps, a key cog in their ‘pen this year.
And from watching them a fair amount this season, doesn’t seem like the Brewers have lost much of that clubhouse morale
He knows nothing about baseball. Brewers missed the playoffs by 1 game. Meanwhile the Reds season was over by June Lmfaoo
Damn, how could you treat Mark Polishuk that way? Cold blooded.
The Brewers lost games during the stretch last year that Hader would more than likely have saved. The players themselves said they were demoralized when Hader was traded and the results showed it. You can say the Brewers “only” lost the division by one game, but with Hader they probably would have won it by more than that. Closers like him are hard to find. If he was a FA, he’d get a lot more than $14m/year.
I get that. Believe me, I do. If my team traded away my All-Star closer in the middle of the season, I’d be pissed too.
But the Brewers don’t spend like that. It was very unlikely they would’ve re-signed him to an extension. When you put those variables together, I think that’s where it starts to make sense over the long-haul
Big difference between Hader and India is Beers didn’t have a replacement. and the team knew it. Reds can replace India’s production and probably improve upon it.
They had D. Williams
Its not that they traded Hader. Its that they didn’t wait until the off season to do it.
If you objectively evaluate the White Sox, they have one of the worst defensive teams in baseball based on outs above average. So, a player like India who is one of the worst defensive second baseman in baseball seems like a player that the White Sox should have ZERO interest in. Certainly not as a centerpiece in a Dylan Cease trade.
Also not trading from a surplus of young SP.
If you objectively evaluate the White Sox, you have to conclude that they shouldn’t be trading for major league assets and should instead be focused on building their talent pipeline.
Great point about India’s D- and it’s like the 3rd most important reason to not target india. But they are the white sox so….
All been coming down to the season series with the Brewers. Seven games and counting is tough to make up against the rest of the league.
As for Newman, he has been crushing LH pitching so starts/leads off against it. EDLC has a platoon split (negative vs LH). Newman stays unless the reds can get a viable arm in return and few teams would pay that price.
CES has not improved his trade value since the call up. As for Senzel, if you can’t hit in Cincy where can you hit? Not much coming back for him either.
If NMarte brings Giolito then something maybe gets done…
CES doesn’t need to increase his trade value. Its much higher than India’s. If the Reds want a TOR starter with multiple years of control, it will take one, or more of those highly valued prospects. Keeping India, over the others, actually improves their chances of getting what they need.
NMarte would be a ridiculous overpay for 2 months of Giolito. He’s a top 40 prospect in MLB.
Not for a two month rental for sure. But for a long term piece, why not? He has nowhere to play in Cincy because they can’t trade for anything other than middle infielders and the young pool is full.
3B next year. you can book that. Marte 3B, Elly SS, McLain 2B, CES 1B.
2024 was the window opening season, not this year. Team arrived a little early is all.
You forgot Steer. No way he is sitting.
Sox shouldn’t be pursuing India. He just isn’t that good. Bad defense. The bat really hasn’t developed to anything much either.
The way too long-standing WSox FO execs are not qualified to trade Cease. Starters with a couple years of arb control go for a mint, but the next POBO can make the call during offseason on what elite prospect such as catcher of future or SS they get from any given team as a headliner. They need an entire organization makeover with fresh set of eyes.
At first glance this seems really dumb, but Cincy could use some solid long term pitching or at least an upgrade there. If Mgmt truly believes in this new young core, this is a way to address that
The force is strong with Hahn.
Tigers and Reds might be an interesting trade partner…India for Lorenzon as the centerpiece of the deal…
Need more from Det than 2 months of Lorenzen for 3+ years of India.
Reds farm is deep. I could see maybe a Rece Hinds or Sal Stewart as main piece from Reds going back
The Reds aren’t trading India for Lorenson straight up not alone attaching prospects.
Great, cause that’s not what I said
As a Brewer fan, I wouldn’t mind seeing India go to the Chisox.
Also as a Brewer fan, that Hader narrative needs to be put to bed. One of the most vocal critics was Eric Lauer, who during this off-season lost 3 mph off of his fastball, couldn’t get anybody out, and is now not pitching. I guess he was crushed. But trading Hader has helped the Brewers net Elvis Peguero, Joel Payamps, and William Contreras…three of the most important parts of this season’s run at contention. And they had (and have_ Devin Williams to be the closer. It was the right move, and if anybody was so overcome with grief at the trade that they stopped trying, then…well, I have no words.
And guess what…this scene might repeat itself with Devin Williams in the 2025 season.
Brewers pitching is nails. I’ll give you that.
their offense…. Not so much.
Brewers relief pitching is awesome. I’m jealous.
Good chemistry is more important than people think. IMO India will be a rock for any team at 2B for the next ten years. Having said that I agree Reds need pitching. Trading India for the “right” pitching deal is what is important. Trading India for Cease straight up is a not a fair trade for the WS even though Cease this year he is only 4-3 with a 4 ERA. He was drafted almost ten years ago so a lot of miles on his arm. I would sweeten the pot but it would not be a ton. Reds are at this point not going to overpay even though that’s what will seem to be the ask given most contending teams are looking for pitching. Reds young talent is too important for them as they rebuild. They have other two other SP coming back from injury in the next 3-6 weeks and have two good SP in AAA that could make the club sometime this year. We also have lots of freed up money next year to go after FA pitching.
Reds should sweeten deal by taking the Lynn contract. Lord knows they got plenty of room to add payroll and could use another starter or 5 regardless of how terrible they have been this year
Reds need to make a yuge trade w marlins to even out both their farms for both team’s contention over next 5/6 seasons. Reds send a couple high end prospects to marlins like CES Hinds and Arroyo for Meyer and Sanchez
I’m not so sure the Reds wouldn’t bit on Giolito for India. Probably another player going the Reds way too, like a Lenyn Sosa type. I mean, they have guys that slot in when he is gone, and Gio could be as high as their #2.
Hey Clu. Only problem is Giolito is only a two month rental. NO way that deal gets done. Now I am not sure about any secondary players you mention but it would have to be something significant to send India out.
Sosa is classified as a slow below average arm 3b prospect by mlb.com. No thanks, unless the Reds approach is quantity over quality a India trade with the White Sox isn’t likely.