The White Sox could be one of the most interesting sellers of this year’s deadline. Chicago lost their last two heading into the All-Star Break and sit 16 games under .500 at 38-54. They’ve fallen eight games back of Cleveland in the AL Central, in which they now occupy fourth place.
Chicago has a number of players who are relatively close to free agency whom they could market in trade. Jon Heyman of the New York Post reports the Sox are prepared to seriously consider offers on all but four players: center fielder Luis Robert Jr., ace Dylan Cease, first baseman Andrew Vaughn and left fielder Eloy Jiménez. Heyman suggests that while no one on the roster might be categorically untouchable, Chicago’s “clear intention” is to retain those four players.
Last month, Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic wrote that Chicago was telling rival clubs they were focused on retaining players under control beyond this season. Genuinely considering offers on everyone aside from Cease, Robert, Vaughn and Jiménez would represent a change in direction, although the Sox would still resist moving any of their most valuable long-term assets.
Chicago has a number of likely impending free agents who are apparent trade candidates. Starter Lucas Giolito and relievers Keynan Middleton and Reynaldo López are pure rentals; all three appeared among MLBTR’s top 20 trade candidates last week. So did starter Lance Lynn, whose contract contains an $18MM team option that appears likely to be bought out for $1MM. Reliever Joe Kelly, controllable for next season via $9.5MM club option ($1MM buyout), also ranked highly on that list.
The Sox have a few more players with relatively pricy 2024 options. Closer Liam Hendriks has a $15MM option that comes with a matching buyout figure. That seems likely to be exercised, as buying Hendriks out would only allow the Sox to defer that payment over a 10-year span. Tim Anderson’s deal contains a $14MM team option or a $1MM buyout. Anderson is having a terrible season (.223/.259/.263 over 290 plate appearances) that could at least force the organization to reconsider an option that looked like an easy call a few months ago. The Mike Clevinger deal contains a $12MM mutual provision which the club will probably buy out for $4MM.
Yasmani Grandal and Elvis Andrus are the other impending free agents on the roster. Grandal is hitting at a decent .251/.317/.374 clip, but trades of catchers midseason are fairly rare and he’s making an $18.25MM salary that’d be difficult to move. Andrus isn’t producing, hitting .208/.286/.266.
The White Sox considering offers on anyone in that group isn’t too surprising. The majority are unlikely to be on the South Side beyond this season. It’d be an inopportune time to deal Anderson or Hendriks (currently on the injured list with elbow inflammation), although the front office could look into it if they’re contemplating declining next year’s option on either player.
Giolito, in particular, seems all but assured to change uniforms. MLBTR’s #1 trade candidate has tossed 112 1/3 innings of 3.45 ERA ball across 19 starts. He’s striking out over a quarter of opponents and looks the part of a durable #2/3 starter on a playoff team. He’s on track for a nine-figure contract that’d be larger than any in White Sox’s franchise history. Chicago should get more in trade this summer than the value of the draft choice they’d receive if they allow him to depart in free agency after declining a qualifying offer.
Heyman suggests the Reds and Rangers could check in Giolito. Cincinnati GM Nick Krall has gone on record about a desire to add pitching. The NL Central-leading club is very likely to upgrade a starting staff that’s presently without Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo. Texas has gotten strong results out of their rotation but could look to add depth as they try to maintain a two-game lead in the AL West. They’ve reportedly checked in on Lynn as well, though Giolito would be the more impactful and costlier (in terms of prospect capital) addition.
One controllable player whom the Sox seem at least somewhat willing to consider moving: starter Michael Kopech. Heyman writes the Sox would be more amenable to relinquishing Kopech than anyone from the Robert, Cease, Vaughn, Jiménez group.
While the 6’3″ right-hander is only in his second full season as a big league starter, he’s not all that far off free agency. Kopech will soon surpass four years of MLB service and is eligible for arbitration through the 2025 campaign — the same control window as Cease. He’s playing this season on a $2.05MM salary.
Kopech landed on the 15-day injured list last week with inflammation in his throwing shoulder. He’s generally expected back not long after the Break, however, so he could have multiple starts before the August 1 deadline. If he’s in form, he’d surely generate interest.
Through 16 starts and 86 innings, Kopech has worked to a 4.08 ERA. He’s striking out 26% of opponents on a solid 11.4% swinging strike percentage while averaging over 95 MPH on his fastball. There’s clearly plenty of promise with the 27-year-old righty, but he has not yet established himself as the top-of-the-rotation arm some evaluators had envisioned. That’s largely due to spotty control, as his 13.1% walk rate is the highest of any pitcher with at least 15 starts.
There’s obviously far less urgency for general manager Rick Hahn and his staff to move Kopech than with any of the impending free agents. Chicago isn’t going to embark on a full teardown and rebuild, so they figure to hold firm to a lofty asking price on their controllable mid-rotation starter. Still, the front office seems more amenable than they were a few weeks ago to consider moving players besides their collection of talented rentals.
My proposal to make the Chi Sox an offer they can’t refuse: Luis Robert Jr. for Zeke Duran, Brock Porter, Owen White, Acuna Jr., Saggese, Otto, Howard, and Josh Smith (the first 4 are top 100 prospects or were in Duran’s case and Howard was a top 25 guy)
A more realistic offer (in my opinion) would be the above with Porter replaced with a lesser minor leaguer like Dustin Harris, Kendrich, Mitch Bratt, etc.
For Robert Jr. and Cease, see the top offer and add guys like JP Martinez (almost a 1.100 OPS at AAA), Elier Hernandez, Bradford, Leody Taveras swapped for a lesser outfielder, etc. What do White Sox fans think about this? How about MLB fans? Please don’t use that trade values simulator that said that the Arraez deal was a steal for the Marlins. We all know how that one worked out and should have expected something like it.
Rangers fan here, I would not give up White, Duran or Taveras. I would consider including White in a trade that netted Robert, Giolito and a RP. Otherwise let Zeke and Taveras patrol the outfield until someone else is kicking down the door and then consider moving them. Robert is a great young player but the Rangers really need a table setter, A TORP-MORP and shut down relievers more than anything else right now.
I really want to dump those guys since they would be sold super-high. Duran’s plate discipline worries me that he will turn into Rougned Odor or Nomar Mazara soon, and his BABIP suggest luck. Pitchers will just keep throwing way out of the zone. Power hitters who whiff a lot usually makeup for it with walks and/or prodigious power. White just performed well statistically, but he seems to be worth more than Leiter, who has superior stuff. White hasn’t been striking out as many, his walks are bad, and he just seem like a meh Otto/Howard/Tepesch/Ariel Jurado/Nick Martinez type.. I would say Leody is the most sustainable of those since he has speed, bat speed, power, and can field pretty well. If he can maintain his OPS and perhaps improve baserunning, he could be a star player. I just don’t see anything in Duran or Taveras. I’m also no scout, but I have witnessed too many of these undisciplined types play for Texas and get ripped apart. That’s why I would dump those off for Robert.
Admittedly, I know nothing about Rangers prospects. But the mere fact that you are using the word “dump” for your supposedly headlining prospects in Duran and Owen White would seem to indicate that that offer wouldn’t even be in the ballpark.
Robert is 25, has 4 more years of team-friendly control left and is a MVP caliber talent. That is even more desirable than one and a half years of Soto, who the Padres sold their farm for. I doubt any of the Padres fans were talking about “dumping” Abrams, Wood, Hassell or Gore.
In reality, the White Sox would probably ask for (and they would be justified in doing so) some of the best young players on the Rangers.
I would think the offer would start at something like Robert and Grandal for Jonah Heim, Josh Jung, and two of the Rangers top 3 remaining prospects (don’t really know who they would be). And I know that seems absurd, but there simply aren’t enough great prospects a team could give up to acquire a guy like Robert.
Teams in contention don’t trade from the big league roster, at least not significant pieces like the starting CF and LF haha. Duran is also the first man up in the event of an injury to Seager, he’s not going anywhere.
I think it is much more likely that they trade Owen White, Foscue or other blocked guys like Acuna (scares the hell out of me) or Saggese.
Trading Taveres is just crazy pants, that guy is going to stay right where he is and be the best 9 hole hitter in the AL. He’s also not just pretty good in centerfield, he’s one of the best.
2 years ago the Astros traded their starting CF for a RP w/ 2 yrs of control and a C in A ball.
That RP ended up being great in the playoffs and has been great again this year after a down 2022.
That C is among their best position players this year.
Astrosfn1979 – in his head “I’m going to talk in code and make non-Astros fans look this sht up!” I assume one of these guys is Diaz, but you could also just mention the trade members.
Sorry guys. The deal was Myles Straw for Phil Maton and Yainer Diaz.
Thanks! Sorry for being a jerk ;0)
Tavares is way better than Straw, even if you think he’s playing over his head. Stop grasping at Robert, because he’s going nowhere
Please don’t use that trade simulator thing that is unbiased and tells me my trades proposals are stupid. There I fixed it for you degrom
I remember writing the white Sox had no business trading for Lance Lynn or signing Grandal. Their rebuild never got out of the rebuilding process. If you can’t put together a playoff caliber team in that division without marking a bunch of signings and trades you don’t have the right people in place to begin with.
Orioles have done their rebuild correctly. They’re now winning and still have a stacked farm system. This is how you build a sustainable winner.
You can’t hotshot your way to the playoffs. Those young rebuilding pieces have to learn how to win something on their own before you dip into free agency.
The Rangers don’t need a table setter they have the 2nd best offense in baseball.
Sure it would be made even better with Robert instead of Grossman/jank but not at the cost of Evan Carter. And jank is amidst a career year and Grossman still hits lhp decently so it’s not a priority.
I think we’ll get Lynn back at the cost of Dustin Harris or something like that. I’d trust Lynn as the 4th starter in a playoff series over Heaney or Perez. Especially against say Toronto or Atlanta
Nobody is asking the important question. If the Sox trade all these guys, Exactly who is going to play the rest of the season? The Sox really have no pieces that are ready or they’d be here already.
Does it really matter? Do you think keeping them will mean they are headed to the playoffs? Sell everyone you can with the exception of Robert (maybe.. maybe Vaughn), Cease and Kopech. Plug in replacements from AAA from all I, and most should, care. Heck they will probably get a better effort. At this point I would take a field of Remillard’s over most of what the Sox have now. At last he does not let the stage spook him, he gets timely hits, gets on and scores runs, and looks solid in the field as well. Better than most of the prima donnas they have now. As for pitching? Same thing. Everyone is whooping up Lynn and Gio,.. well both looked godawful until they started hearing they could get out of Chicago in the past month. Keep Cease, Kopech, Put Toussaint, Scholtens,and Banks (heck even put Lopez back there) into the rotation and deal with the pummeling. Lets be honest, some guys are not tradable unfortunately. Moncada, Bummer, etc so its not the like cupboard will be bare. I say see what you got next season as we all know Hahn ain’t making a good FA pickup.. Time to bring up kids, even if they are doing poorly in the minors, and see what they have. If anything, Remillard is showing me that maybe the Sox just have some ‘good enough’ players in the org that will play hard and know what to do in situational play.
Duran is borderline an All-Star. You’ve got too much going with him.
Maybe you should use that trade values simulator before you waste everyone’s time.
Nope. I commented about Arraez being a steal, and that dumb simulator said it was the other way around. The same went for Joey Gallo. I am not relying on dumb people pretending to be smart by coming up with a fancy simulation. I’m just casually discussing. Using stuff like that gives you credibility that you really shouldn’t have. Some things are more interesting to discuss qualitatively and quantitatively. For instance, do you really believe that Semien is worth the same WAR as Soto? What about the idea that Lopez was worth more in 2 seasons than Arraez? They also predicted Nathaniel Lowe to have a similar season to Paul Goldschmidt. It’s not just a few examples. I have seen countless trades proposed on there that are “fair” that would never work due to position, money, or win now vs win later mode. Common sense can’t be replaced with pseudointellectual thinking.
Well since Juan Soto can’t play second base that is the great equalizer.
That’s a fair point to an extent, but Arraez certainly can. I used that site to made a deal of Yelich, Burnes, and Williams for a few nobodies from Texas before the season, so I think discussion is more insightful. You need both to discuss a deal. If there were a decent simulator that made sense, I’d give it more weight, but you don’t have to waste your time replying to what you think is a waste of time. Neither do others…
Degrom
You really shouldn’t be talking about how the trade simulator is no good while suggesting the White Sox trade Robert in the same breath. Robert is absolutely positively not available.
First of all, Robert isn’t going anywhere. Period. Whether they say it or not, the Sox are in almost a total rebuild around Cease, Vaughn, Robert and Eloy. Problem is, the Sox have no potential major leaguers in their farm system. When they start trading players, I have no confidence that the Sox will get any decent prospects. The rebuild will be a farce. Grifol is in over his head. I doubt he can take a collection of low-level prospects and build some semblance of a competitive team. They should keep Giolito and Hendriks, but they won’t pay any player more than $3m/year. No way will they pick up the option on any player who would be paid more than that amount. Cease could win the Cy Young but Reinsdorf would get rid of him if his salary went above that number. The Sox are going to be very bad for a long time, until Reinsdorf gives up the team or croaks.
Cease is making 5.7m this year, will continue to go up his next two arb years. They can’t build around him if they don’t extend him before then.
Trading Robert would be the fastest way to get the most relevant prospects to further the rebuild. What good does it do anyone to have a great player on a long term contract when he is surrounded by meh….see Angels of Los Angeles.
Seems like the White Sox and Cards are taking the same approach. We don’t want to trade the players who would net us the best returns. We want to have a yard sale of all our bad contracts/underperformers/rentals/disappointments and expect a return that will get us moving in the right direction. You know what? I like our guys. Let’s keep this team together and simply expect different results. That’s what we’re gonna do.
Well said solaris. I think the White Sox get a strong return from Giolito (and the Cards with Montgomery possibly), but they may need to trade Cease if they want to be viable more quickly. Trade the others to better stock the farm (which is bad), but to make a substantive change they will need to give up one of the controllable pieces I think.
Play Colas, Sosa, Montgomery even, There are 0 arms in the minors, so they’ll need to get some back in return.
Sox fans have so little to watch. There’s Robert who is showing what he can do when he’s healthy; Cease, Vaughn, an underrated player, and Eloy who if he can stay away from the down and well away from the plate is a very good rbi man. They’re not signing Gio, no way they’re going to pick up Hendrik’ $15m option
I think you do not trade a likely generational talent like Robert, especially a guy that can put butts in the seats. They thought it was going to be that way with Eloy too, but nope (Then again who knows if they can get some proper tutelage). Robert though looks like a real deal.. Then again, he apparently hurt his calf in the HR derby last night (#Facepalm).
the Sox are in almost a total rebuild around Cease, Vaughn, Robert and Eloy.
=========================
I’m an all-in r all-out type of pretend GM.
It is entirely possible that the WS would be selling high on Cease & Robert. Cease has had only one season with an ERA under 3.91, albeit a CY equivalent season. The WS would be selling him like a #1 at this point.
And I had liked Robert for the RS a year or two back, but his HR/FB is a likely unsustainable 25.2% this year, and with a 5/1 K/W.
But more importantly, they are a whole lot closer to the #3 overall pick than to contention. And even with some payroll space, I don’t see a path to relevancy next year. If you ain’t going to be a contender for two years, you might as well be rebuilding for two years.
When a FB goes 440 ft, the rate isn’t unsustainable. He doesn’t hit a lot of popups/short hrs.
He had a 16.3% and 12.0% the past two years. I’d wager on regression.
His barrel percentage has also gone from 8.9% to 15.5% this year, so I’d wager that he’s gotten better (and is only 25 YO). But you could be right, his K rate is up and hard hit rate down, so could go either way.
Lol at the Sox tryna pretend like Vaughn isn’t a massive disappointment
Vaughn is 25 and basically had almost no minor league time. He’s learning at the MLB level, and slowly getting better. His hard hit rate is top 7 at 1B (47%) and he has a low BABIP (.275), so I expect him to continue to improve his numbers going forward.
He’s untouchable because they spent a top 5 pick on him and they aren’t yet sure if he’s as good as they’d hoped… unlike Madrigal who they basically admitted was a bad pick.
I don’t understand how Acuna Jr. involved in this trade? Is there another Acuna Jr. besides the Braves Ronald Acuna Jr?
Si. See the top 100 prospects list. His bro, who the big man says is better than him, is an elite baserunner, with good plate discipline, and some power. Of course, he hasn’t gotten close to 40-40 or had a 1.000 OPS even in the minors, let alone majors, but he is still a top 100 on MLB.com.
I see. Ronald Acuna Jr. has the prefix Jr. because his father is also named Ronald. His brother is Luisangel Acuna, no prefix.
Sorry for the confusion – it’s Jose Acuna ot Luisangel Acuna. I didn’t realize Jr. was for offspring instead of younger siblings.
Never really got the fascination with Vaughn and Eloy. Only .4 WAR over 3 seasons for Vaughn and 5.7 over parts of 5 seasons for Eloy. They aren’t exactly lighting the world on fire. I get that their numbers were hurt a bit playing out of position (at least for Vaughn), but still. Eloy’s career OPS is alright (.824), but nothing overly special and from what I have heard not all that great defensively. Vaughn is even less accomplished than Eloy with the bat.
I’m open to the possibility that I am missing something if anyone has a different opinion.
Not saying they are bad players, just not sure why they would be labeled untouchable. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be open to moving them for the right offer.
Eloy offers no defensive value and he is Mr. Glass. If they can get a nice offer for him, he should be shipped at the earliest opportunity.
Strange that Jimenez is one of the ones they’d keep. But Reinsdorf is for anything that saves him money so he must still be cheap. Jimenez is the last one I’d keep.
Eloy has the skills to be a top DH, but the guy gets injured doing that too (Ugh). Looking at some of the stuff Eloy swings at sometimes.. ick. I think some of these guys need a coach who will give them a kick in the pants. Its clear its not Grifol. But then again what the Sox expect when they brought in a guy from a losing org to be their head coach.. “He is a good guy’ Well the Sox have had plenty of ‘good guys’ in the clubhouse after Ozzie.. With Renteria the only ‘good guy’ to get this team pointed in the right direction. Maybe the Org has to eat a bit of crow and get a ball breaker in the locker room.
Jimenez is controllable for a long time at a reasonable rate and is still very solid offensively. Vaughn is just a high draft pick with elite college and minor league numbers and super elite bb/k ratios there. He was walking twice as much as he was striking out, with Langford/Crew numbers. They probably don’t want to give up this soon and sell low. Sunken costs are easier to accept logically than they are emotionally, especially if you aren’t the one behind those decisions to draft a certain guy (Vaughn). Btw, remember our bet about which team would perform better (Texas or Toronto)? Texas was 40-20 before, and they have slumped since then, but I expect them to recover with some mega trades. Maybe, they add 2 solid relievers, 1 top or average starter, and a decent outfielder. I can see 90 wins right now and maybe 95-98 wins with the right additions. Decent BP guys should help way more than their WAR since the Rangers need high leverage guys to improve their 1-run record.
Texas could probably do a one stop shop with either Chicago or St. Louis.
Goldy is my favorite player not on the Rangers. In my opinion, he is probably the most underrated player in MLB.
Gotta love when fans think their team is a legit contender and only want them to make 5 mega trades. Just get back to playing mlb the show lol
You guys got it all wrong about Vaughn. He led the team in rbi last year ahead of Abreu and he and Robert are leading the team this season. He hits HRs and finds the gaps. It’s unfortunate you don’t get to see him every day like I do before making your subjective opinions.
I have to admit, I’m with deGrom. Where does the value come from with guys who can only DH or play 1B? Vaughn and Jimenez are good hitters, but they don’t really add value. They are by no means hard to replace at their current production levels. I don’t understand the decision to make them untouchable.
The Vaughn kid and that Burgers boy with all the homeruns and whatnot should be off limits in trade talked. And Benni who is glue. I mean one of the most solid lunch pail guys everyday. That’s what you build around
Remember when Andrew Benintendi was Wyatt Langford when he was a draft eligible soph ac ark leading the entire ncaa in HR with 20? I don’t.
Vaughn has 12 HRs this year, which is decent but for a 1B it’s not really noteworthy. Last years RBIs(76) not exactly noteworthy either and more of leading the team by default as someone had to.
As for this year he is walking even more but also striking out more. What is encouraging is he’s been driving in runs at a much higher rate and he’s been producing a ton of doubles. I don’t see him ever having plus power for a 1B, but he seems as though he can b an on base machine and a catalyst of an offense.
Are you implying JD Martinez wasn’t/isn’t valuable? Or David Ortiz? What about Goldy and Rizzo?
There is value in being a 1st base or DH only as long as, as in Rizzo and Goldschmidts case, they are elite hitters and elite defenders and value as a DH only as long as they offer elite level offense, which neither Vaughn or Jimenez are elite level producers at their respective positions.
I think saying either guy, Vaughn or Jimenez, is “untouchable” is simply stating neither have enough trade value to move.
I was talking about Vaughn and Jimenez specifically as guys who only play 1B or DH. Yes, Big Papi and Goldy, some guy named Pujols, etc, etc, etc, all had value. I just don’t think Eloy or Vaughn are valuable enough to label “untouchable”.
I don’t think I had a bet with you. There is another person with a very similar name who is more active on the boards than me. It was likely that person you are thinking of.
I get Vaughn, they have him controllable and hope he bounces back, but Eloy? I don’t see the value. Maybe they want to trade him in the off-season and hope his value increases.
Rather than bouncing back I would hope Sox brass hope Andy takes a *massive leap forward* and adds 200 ops to get him where they thought he might be by now.
He still could but sheesh…what a disappointment of torklemanlike disproportions
The only way that works is if he has a super solid 2nd half AND does not land on the IL. That’s a pretty optimistic roll of the dice.
Why wouldn’t they do the obvious? Because Rick Hahn is horrible at his job like the rest of the Sox organization.
They can’t build a good team and they can’t do a good rebuild. There’s not a lot to trade and not much to bring up to the big leagues. Sad.
White Sox are in a similar position as the Cubs were a few years back, they have a bunch of guys that are nearing the end of their contracts and none are really having the type of year that would bring back much in trade.
Eloy is a legit butcher in the field. Hes lost out there.
The constant struggles of the White Sox to compete is one of baseball’s great mysteries. The team has shown a willingness to spend money and at times has had a strong farm system. There is a passionate, loyal, and knowledgeable fan base.
It must ultimately come down to the decision makers at the top and those above them who allow them to keep their roles despite a lack of results.
Friars are right there with ya…
The team absolutely hasn’t showed enough willingness to spend money. Their all-time highest contract ever was Andrew Benintendi’s 5-year, $75M deal last offseason, which was both ridiculously small for a franchise record and a severe overpay for Benintendi. Reinsdorf has routinely failed to invest in the team enough to elevate them to a true contender, which has led them to the mess they’re in now
They’ve been a top 10 payroll the past two seasons and in the top half of payrolls the past three seasons. That to me indicates a willingness to spend, but perhaps your interpretation of the numbers has a different level of understanding.
tih-foil hat theory is that Reinsdorf wants to spend but not really compete – keep attendance low. Easier to justify moving to Charlotte.
They extended Sale for really cheap, they signed Abreu, and they extended Quintana early. Being smart is not the same as being cheap. Just spend more efficiently, and you won’t have to spend big. Sale made less than guys like Greinke, Price, and Scherzer, but that is not to say he wasn’t better (he was) or that Chicago was cheap. Yoan Moncada was also a huge investment. They just don’t extend guys to long contracts in terms of length, as they don’t need to.
But they haven’t been smart. At all. They never put together a serious contender when their window was at its peak, and now they have a terrible team with one of the worst farm systems in baseball. The team made a couple good signings sure, but they never took that next step and now they have nothing to show for it.
They spend big sums in the bullpen. Smart teams rarely do that.
surely you aren’t implying the mets are a dumb team
oh wait
That is a different take than not willing to spend money
When you boil it down in the case of Benintendi, the White Sox spent $75M on a player to stop the revolving door in LF for 5 years. That in itself is a success story. Is he a difference maker? That’s not proving to be the case despite the fact he’s doing what he’s done over the past several years.
Once you understand that Reinsdorf could care less about his team and refuses to put any money into it, you start to get the idea. The Sox have done nothing to build their farm system to the point that there is basically no prospect good enough to play in the majors. Some people think the team should be better when they look at what they pay out each season, but Reinsdorf didn’t spend wisely. The best example is Grandal, who should never have been signed to begin with. The one thing you got right is that the Sox have a passionate, loyal and knowledgeable fan base. We deserve better than Reinsdorf.
Sellers? What? I know they’re one of the worst teams in THE worst division in baseball BUT they are right in the middle of their “contending window” if you don’t believe me just ask Rick Hahn, he’ll tell you. LOL
That didn’t stop Baltimore from selling last year. In fact, the year Texas traded for Cole Hamels, they dealt Keone Kela. They were even considering Hamilton for King Felix at one point in 2012.
And being in fourth place in the hideous AL Central tells you the window has closed.
Kopech can be the cliche “lightning in a bottle” acquisition. It’s all between the ears with him. A better organization that can boost his confidence may land the best upside arm for this stretch run.
How about Giolito puts pen to paper and stays on the southside?
I’m all for it. The stopping block is Reinsdorf, who won’t pay him anywhere near what he deserves.
Giolito is on record as saying he’d love to reup as he loves the city, his teammates and the club. At this point I’d rather they trade the talented but inconsistent Cease who doesn’t seem dialed in to be a true #1.
I’ll repeat what I said the other day.
I used to be in Hahns corner but I’m just not convinced that he’s the right guy for the job anymore. Maybe it is a combination of Reinsdorf and Williams but three brief playoff appearances, a full scale rebuild and five different managers over the past fifteen years says someone is really bad at their job.
It’s not Hahn, as far as I can tell. It’s Reinsdorf. In 2017 the Sox began a 5 year rebuild. Manager Rick Renteria got them to the PO in 3. Then Reinsdorf started the Sox on their current downward spiral by going over Hahn’s and William’s heads, firing Renteria and hiring his buddy LaRussa presumably to take them to the next level, which Renteria already did. LaRussa totally demoralized the players and the rebuild was stopped cold. This next rebuild won’t go as well as the last.
I’m not defending Jerry Reinsdorf here. It should be noted that Rick Hahn had already fired manager Rick Renteria and pitching coach Don Cooper before JR insisted his pal Tony La Russa become the next White Sox manager.
Hahn fired Renteria under the notion that the White Sox needed a more experienced manager to take them to the ‘next level’. JR stepped in and said Tony should be that guy. We all know how that worked out.
I was a big fan of Ricky Renteria when he managed both the Cubs and White Sox during their respective rebuilds. He didn’t deserve to be fired after overseeing the entire White Sox rebuild and getting them to the postseason in his first possible chance as a contender during the shortened 2020 pandemic season.
I was also a believer in Rick Hahn when he convinced both JR and Kenny Williams that the White Sox needed a full scale rebuild during the 2016 season when the team was still hopelessly “mired in mediocrity”. Hahn seemed to orchestrate a fine rebuild with his prospect trades for veterans Chris Sale, Adam Eaton and Jose Quintana. He drafted some top end college talent who became contributors. He also kept the White Sox Cuban connection going strong with the signing of international prospect Luis Robert Jr. Where Hahn ultimately failed was the manner in which he supplemented his young core with subsequent trades and free agent signings.
Bottom line: Hahn fired Renteria because he didn’t believe Ricky could take the team to the next level of contention. It’s obvious the same could be said of Hahn as the White Sox GM. As they say, “sometimes karma can be a….”
It takes three front line starting pitchers to win a World Series. I just don’t believe Giolito has enough swing and miss stuff to pitch in October. He can definitely help you get there but I don’t see him commanding a big haul.
9 10 k’s per 9 isn’t good enough?
Giolito and the relievers will go. White flag trade #2
Grandal won’t return much.
Trading Hendricks would just put a dagger into the fan base.
They have the makings for a competing team, same what the Astros did but something ain’t right on what they are doing with the talent. Too much sabermetrics or not enough. Or the lack of gusto. Ozzie guillen had the will to win and knew what the team needed.
Trade Lynn and see if someone will take Grandal for a salary dump.
Lynn won’t return much if anything in trade. Bad year
Some fans would understand giving Hendricks a chance to pitch on the big stage
The only guys I see on the White Sox that have positive trade value and the White Sox would be willing to trade are Middleton and Giolito. That’s really it.
Their team is in bad shape. I think they are going to try and reload not rebuild but it doesn’t look like that’s going to work.
Worst run organization in all of sports
The Rockies may have something to say about that.
The rockies don’t try to win, they just don’t care, that makes the chisox worse imo
The Padres and Mets say hold my beer
The only player that they are willing to cut loose that will give them anything useful as a return would be Giolito. How is that gonna help their team next year??
In a proposal of the Dodgers’ Gavin Stone, Andy Pages, and a low level lottery ticket for Giolito, who says no?
The Dodgers
Probably more like Nick Nastrini, Eddys Leonard and Carson Taylor for Giolito
The fact that Andrew Vaughn is untouchable tells you everything you need to know. No organization loves the smell of its own farts more than the White Sox.
It has only taken half a season to see how much baseball has changed due to the new rules……and, of course, the article lists Vaughn and Eloy as not going anywhere.
Those two players, along with Sheets, Grandal, Burger, and so are the exact reason this team doesn’t win. They are slow, plodding, very poor defensively and have a some potential but really don’t bang the ball around the park.
The White Sox have finished above .500 exactly twice since 2012 (and one of those was a 60 game season) and they are anointed like they are perennial contenders. They have stunk for a decade and a half so people need to quit the mirage of them being anywhere near good.
They only outlier year of 2021 Houston simply ran them out of the playoffs and showed what a gap the Sox needed to fill to be really contending. And they have come nowhere near filling that in.
The Reds should be staying far away from rentals unless they cost non top 30 prospects.
Couldn’t agree more.
They would be making a huge mistake if they start flipping their prospects for veterans. I know the energy level of the team is through the roof, but right now you let the young core develop together and sit tight.
There are tons of teams that aren’t patient in this spot and are too quick to go all-in. I think the White Sox made the same mistake when they traded guys like Madrigal and Dunning for veteran rentals. Granted, the 2 aren’t anything special, but you shouldn’t be trading your top prospects the moment you start contending.
The Reds might check in but they’ll soon check out.
The Reds are not good enough yet to be shelling prospects out for a rental guy. Especially someone we know won’t resign with them. The Rangers are a great candidate for Giolito as they are in a win now mode with all they have spent over the past two seasons. However I’d like to throw a proposal out, Boston who sits in last place at just under 50 wins with a real shot at the playoffs desperately needs starting pitching. Go get Giolito or Kopech and sign them immediately to a deal. They have began to figure out the bullpen and we know they can hit. Go get both of them why dot they haha!
I’m not sure we are in win now mode, we kind of surprised ourselves at how good we have been and are trying to take advantage. No one had high expectations for a team coming off of a 64 win season lol. But to your point I do think we will take a stab at Giolito, Lynn or the bullpen arms from the Sox.
Haha, all you can do is try. Go get them!
Seems like the Sox could use near ready propsects that play in up the middle postions of pitching? I am going to say Foscue is the first guy in a deal for Giolito and a reliever. I would love for Joe Kelly to come over if he is healthy. Probably something like Foscue, Tekoah Roby and a flier like Saggese for those guys.
Not sure that package gets giolito and one of their better relievers. Those 3 are probably right around the bottom of top 100 prospect lists now? Maybe it would
Giolito is a rental, remember the Sox gave up something like Dunning and Acker for Lynn 3 years ago and that was a full year of service time. Roby is a little less valuable than where Dunning was at the time and Foscue is the real get.
Yeah good point on gio being a rental. I think lots of teams will be in the mix for him though and the compensation pick you get back cancels out one of those 3…
At this point I think Sagesse is the one of those 3 who’d be the toughest to lose… being 3+ years younger than Foscue who is already transitioning to 1B territory defensively it appears
I think Foscue is transitioning to 1B becasue he is blocked up the middle in Texas, if a team had a spot for him I think he would get a longer look at 2B. I suppose Saggesse could turn into something better but I think he is more of a utility player ceiling with some power.
I don’t get the “likely utility player” tag people still keep applying to Thomas Saggese. The kid has pedigree…in COVID draft Rangers had to money-whip a bit to get him out of his Pepperdine commit..well over-slot 800k was actually more than the 3rd rounder TK Roby got (also an over-slot 775k fwiw)
He didn’t turn 21 til the season started and he’s sporting what the 4th or 5th best ops in the Texas league? He’s about 50 ops up on same age Evan Carter about 75 up on same age Acuna.
He’s 100 up on same age same league Jordan Lawler, whom Saggese has matched step for step from the get go and has outhit him at every level. Not saying he’s the prospect Lawler is but he’s profile more like Jeff Kent or maybe Semien minus some speed and defense right now.
I think it’s more that he doesn’t excel at any one thing. a similar comparison is Josh Smith, good ballplayer but no really great tool that makes him a starter. Plus he has played all 4 infield positions at AA, so clearly the team is thinking the same thing.
Red sox already have one former injured white sox player in sale.
Why would they want another in Kopech.
Who am I?
A. Ten years ago I was 19 and hit 20 homers for Arkansas which was more than any other division 1 player.
Nowadays I have the worst HR rate of any AL OF/DH…I have 1 in 350 PA
B. Ten years ago I was 20 and hit 20 homers in the major leagues and was generally considered the greatest power hitting prospect ever.
Nowadays I have the worst HR rate of any NL OF/DH…I have 3 in 250 PA
Y’all give up?
I give up, but i’m curious.
A. Andrew Benintendi
B. Bryce Harper
The strategy here is so illogical it could only be of Rick Hahn’s making.
What sense does it make to retain Jimenez, Roberts, Cease and Vaughn for a quick retool and then make absolutely no attempt to resign Giolito? Everyone knows reinforcements won’t be coming from the farm anytime soon.
Chicago needs to do right by Giolito and pay him what he’s worth. That would leave a viable core to rebuild around.
The next step is unloading some of god awful reliever contracts.
Also, I don’t think anyone is overpaying for Giolito unless they plan to keep him long-term. Recently history is full of examples of teams getting burned on deadline rentals. Hence the reports flying around about front offices holding their cards close to the vest and showing an extreme reluctance to deal prospects.
If the White Sox are hoping for a quick turnaround, buying out Hendriks and Anderson this off-season should be no brainers. The moves would clear $26.5 million in payroll space for 2024.
It’s going to happen. The Sox are going to make several trades/dumps at the deadline. Afterward, they will be a much better club. They will even shock the baseball world by being competitive again.
you talking about the red sox?
Why is Graveman not even mentioned in the article?
He and Giolito are the 2 guys all my fellow Astro friends have been talking about and suggesting offers about our message boards.
I figure Atlanta would have some conversations with the White sox about a starter and reliver. Strider, Elder, and Morton have locked down 3 of the 5 spots. Fried and Wright may come back. We shall see how each of their rehab goes. Outside of that are largely unproven arms. Soroka, Dodd, Shuster, AJSS. Atlanta’s bullpen has the 2nd most innings pitched in the MLB. At a minimum, I can see them reaching out for at least a bullpen arm at the deadline.
Not sure who would want to trade for Joe Karen Kelly, but good luck with that one.
I cant recall a more frustrating time to be a Sox fan in 35 years. What a disappointment and what a joke we are, as fans, for believing this incompetent group of wankers could ever pull off a successful rebuild despite being given the keys to the city.
Kopech should be in the bullpen just firing BBs., He doesn’t have the movement or deceptiveness to go through lineup three times.
Some other reasons for why the Sox are in this mess:
* They had high draft picks every year from 15-20 and squandered them. To wit: c. Fulmer major bust, z. Collins major bust (+burdi bust), burgers not exactly busto but very underwhelming, madrigal busted terrible pick, Vaughn solid pick who has majorly underperformed in MLB to this point, crochet bad novelty pick probably washed
* Moncada not that long ago was the top MLB prospect. He looks warshed now at age 27
* Tim Anderson quickly morphed into one of worst MLB players
*They traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields
Spot on on the draft picks.. Ugh. Madrigal.. Not sure if he is a bust or not. He seems to hit well, then gets hurt… Definitely should not have picked him high.
Anderson let his personal life get in the way of his baseball life.. One also has to wonder if these were really injuries he had over the past few years, or it being TIm dealing with in infidelities.
Tatis was traded before he got good.. probably around the same time he started juicin’.
Moncada and his ‘injuries’: I think he needs a coach to get in his face more than anything. The guy has talent- two 5 hit games last year is an example of when he is ‘on’…,To me its just questions about his motivation to reach his potential.
Crochet, not sure if you can give up on a guy that’s about two years removed from the draft (I mean every pitcher that throws a slider may as well get TJS once they get drafted cause its going to happen at some point sooner than later.)
This team has talent, but no leadership on the team, manager or front office. They made a terrible mistake hiring Grifol who has never managed to manage a bunch of young players. The dugout antics are like a detention hall with no teacher. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams along with Grifol should be locked out of their offices during the alll star break and fired by email.
Nice of the Sox admin to tell the team you all suck except 4 guys. Try selling Tix the rest of the year. They better be blockbuster deals that create whatever excitement needed. After that statement I would stay home after the break until they trade me. Hahn,KW no class they keep trying to look smooth.
Vaughn and Jiminez are “cornerstones” lol. Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna.
Yeah, he is not wrong. Gio and Lynn found their stuff when they started hearing trade rumors. This org and its makeup is just cancerous to young players.. I mean they have third base coaches sending catchers around third with less than two outs only to be done like dinner at home, never mind of the poor execution last season. (though Grifol was supposed to fix that, not make it worse) basically like a kindergarten in the dugout Renteria looked like he had these guys pointed in the right direction. Then the genius owner decided to stab his manager, and team, in the back, and pull a HoF manager in to manage this club.. Slight problem: This team was not ready for that ‘next step’ and, as usual with most signings for this org, about 5-10 tens too late for the guy they brought in. I’m sure if LaRussa was managing this club when he was ten years younger they may have done better. However I think JR convinced his buddy “This team is ready, you have to do nothing, just go out there and wave your cap’ . You can tell that LaRussa just had the look of ‘What did I get talked into?!’ after many of those horribly played games. Too bad the one guy that probably could get this team to play right, Renteria, is the guy they stabbed in the back. Also guessing that is one reason (besides being cheap) that Grifol was hired, no one else wanted a job where the manager got stabbed in the back by the owner (who has NO business being involved in such a move).
They are definitely in a tough spot. The 2023 team is going nowhere and they need to start looking towards 2024 and beyond. Regrettable and it won’t sell tickets.. but it is reality.
To make matters worse, 2024 isn’t looking much better. They have far too many holes to address through free agency alone and their farm system is one of the worst in baseball.
If they don’t cash-in effectively on some of these soon to be free agents, they very well may be entering (yet another) extended rebuild period.
Article: Luis Robert isn’t moving anywhere. He is young, talented and under control for 4 more years
Non WS Comments: So like, maybe 2 fringe guys a bucket of balls might get him right?
Also Non WS Comments: Overpay
Looked at who Reds might offer for Giolito. Can’t really find anyone on their rosters who Reds might feel obliged to part with or who WS might want for a couple month rental. We have two starters coming back from injury within the next month. Maybe if we were a World Series contending team and needed a decent starter to help put us over the top we might pony up a nice offer but we are not so don’t see us getting Giolito. He probably goes to Texas or Dodgers. As far as Lynn goes that’s a coin flip. Reds are looking to next year when they free up some contracts and have money to spend. This year is a shocker and found money and most likely will ride it out with what we have.