Re: free runner on 2nd in extra innings — If they insist on having a runner to avoid marathon games, why not just have the ghost runner start at 1B and not 2B? They’ve made it easier to steal bases, so lean on that and not automatically put a runner in scoring position. That could also make late-inning running replacements (i.e. Billy Hamilton-types) that seem to be one-trick ponies more valuable (if they aren’t good enough with the bat to stay on the field).
Because putting the runner on first increases the chances of a double play even with stolen bases being easier. Which will have the exact opposite effect of what they’re trying to accomplish.
I am old school, i love baseball, “Lets Play 2” nothing wrong with an 18 inning game!!! If your attention span does not allow you to be engaged in the game past 10 innings maybe you are following the wrong sport!!! The Ghost Runner is bush league IMHO
My biggest complaint about the Ghost Runner, a game shouldn’t be decided in extra innings by a ground ball out to the right side of the infield and then a sac fly. A base hit, or at least walks, should factor in the winning run scoring.
The problem I had with Extra Innings (I pitched in college, mostly a reliever, which heightened the feeling of what I am about to type) is that:
-someone in either team’s 3-5 batting spots, two or three guys per game, are in a 2-30 slump
-Every pitcher from the 7th inning on sits 98 with a hammer. On top of increased strikeouts, every batter’s best bet is to swing for the downs and try to win it with one swing
-If a catcher gets pulled in the 11th inning because it’s been a long game, well he already can’t hit because defense is more important as a catcher, and that guy’s backup is now in the game, and the only thing that guy can mmmaybe do at the plate is either draw a walk or occasionally run into one when swinging for the downs
After all that, you blink and suddenly it’s the 15th inning, and we as pitchers want to go HOME, with little care about who the winning team is
I also played baseball, guess what i was involved in a lot of extra inning games and never once thought about “I wanna go home” or” i no longer care who is winning” That is a comment from someone who is not a true competitor!!!
Played in college as well, then the game retired me.
Totally agree with your “want to go home” sentiment after a certain inning. Longest we went was 19. The other team’s p gave us the game, pretty sure his coach told him to.
College ball. Me too. What a hoot. 40 plus years have passed. Honestly, don’t recall much actual game action. What I do remember with joy are the goofy antics between teammates in the dugout, during practice and on road trips. Again, what a hoot.
Any thoughts I have about structure of MLB play today is purely from a fan perspective not from long ago on field folly experiences. Cheers!
That’s an interesting observation about pitchers not caring who wins the game. This is something that has kind of bugged me a little bit with some MLB pitchers…they will pitch a really good game, but the team loses let’s say 2-0 or 3-1. So after the game the pitcher is all high & mighty about himself because he pitched a quality start, and if there was any offense he would have won the game. I always found this a bit distasteful though, if your team lost, you should not be gloating about how well you pitched. If you pitched just a little better, maybe your team could have won. Be more perfect. To a fan, it just seems off-putting, with the pitcher seemingly only interested in his own performance.
The ghost runner rule is probably the one new rule I’ve seen the most disdain for among fans. Most polls, whether it be here or on social media platforms that allow users to create polls for people to vote on, typcially see a large amount saying they are not in favor of the rule. At the very least, they should give each team two or three innings to score before putting the rule into affect.
I get that they don’t want 18 inning games, and it does wear players down, but there are so few of those kinds of games. Between 2018 and 2019, only 26 games lasted past the 15th inning. 4 lasted until the 18th or later. That means less than 8% of extra inning games last until the 15th, and only 0.9% lasted until the 18th or later. About 90% of extra inning games ended by the 13th inning.
I still hold the opinion MLB is trying to solve an issue that isn’t there with this one. Limiting the shift, they can say that it creates more hits and more action. I see where they’re coming with that one. Pitch clock? If I’m being honest, you never realized how long some pitchers took and how much downtime there was in-between pitches until they started enforcing it this year. I think that will end up helping the game long term. The extra inning ghost runner? It’s trying to prevent a very specific situation that happens in less than 0.5% of games each season.
And in response to the lad/lady saying you’re wrong about the ghost runner, I on the other hand think that Rob Manfred should be locked in a cage and not let out until he not only agrees to do away with the ghost runner, but also writes a 1000 word handwritten apology letter for ever instituting it in the first place.
I’m going to need my own personal copy of that handwritten apology so he might want to get started… the Zombie Runner is a complete travesty and a mark on the game.
Franco’s situation doesn’t seem as cut and dry as Vazquez’s situation from a few years ago. Vazquez was very clearly knowingly and willingly sleeping with a minor. There are a lot more conflicting reports with this one. However, in the event he knowingly and willingly dated a 14 year old, not only would his pro baseball career be over, but he’d probably face jailtime.
I support due process and innocent until proven guilty more than anyone else alive. Vazquez got his. He pretty much admitted to it when they arrested him so the case was basically open and shut. The one thing I did take issue with however was that he claimed under oath the girl lied about her age and sent him a picture of a fake ID, whereas she (again, under oath) admitted to lying to him about her age (at least at first) but denied ever having a fake ID let alone sending him a picture of it. Obviously there is only one right answer to the question of whether or not there was a fake ID and obviously they both knew the answer to that, yet their stories contradict each other which means one of them committed perjury. If I were the judge I would have paused the trial, ordered a full scale investigation into the fake ID issue and then charged whoever was lying with perjury.
With Franco, we just have to wait until more information comes out.
Yeah, like I said, it’s a lot less cut and dry. Franco apparently asked for ID and she said she was 18. Now apparently the mom is holding Franco hostage saying she’s 14, but there are posts of her driving and with alcohol. Just gotta see where this one goes.
The answer on Mancini is exactly the answer why they traded him last year. He was clogging the roster then and all they would have offerred in FA was a big pay cut, which would have been controversial. The fact that Elias turned him in to McDermott and Seth Johnson (two potential rotation arms) is mind boggling. Then they find OHearn on the scrap heap and he’s better than peak Mancini.
In retrospect, the Os 2022 trade deadline “sell off” will become a GM legend.
I understand that Max Fried is a good pitcher. What I don’t understand is why any agent would even want to bring up Rodon’s mistake of a contract. Its the perfect reason to not give that amount to a volatile pitcher in a long term deal. Maybe they should bring up Strasburg, or Price, or deGrom, or Zimmerman as comparisons, as well. If you want me to sign your client, give me a comparable contract that worked out, at least to this point in the contract.
One thing that is somewhat related is this: The extra runner is there to keep games short. However, most games are not extra inning games, and the pitch clock has been excellent in reducing time. If we assume there are 300 pitches thrown in a game (150 by each side), shaving off just 5 seconds would reduce the time by 1500 seconds = 25 minutes. Having pitched in youth baseball, I would even say 15 seconds in between pitches would work. The only thing would be to add more timeouts. An extra 5 seconds saved would save an extra 25 mins, making it about 2 hours and 10 mins from 3 hours. We were always scheduled to play 7 innings in my league, but we usually just got 5 or 6 so the other teams scheduled after us could take the field. I would much rather have seen more action and fewer timeouts. We had a coach who once called timeouts in between pitches to stall the game. Now, if the point is to just stop wasting time, the Manfred man is not needed. You can just stick to the clock and let fans leave if they don’t care about extras. Those who do will likely stay. Adding an unearned run to a pitcher’s record without an error just messes up stats.
I’m not sure what the batter facing the pitcher has anything to do with slowing down the game since the pitcher can just throw a strike whether or not the batter is ready. So what if a batter isn’t looking at the guy? Let the situation play out.
Ghost runner is just another rule to keep the precious, overpaid players from having to put in “unpaid” overtime. Just like load management in the NBA. Why should we play long games? Part of the me-first generation. Baseball was designed to avoid ties, even if it meant playing 10, 13, 17 innings. And, of course, there’s also the modern-day thing with using up your pitching staff by the 9th inning.
I don’t care for the ghost runner, nor do I mind extra-innings. But, the biggest reason for not wanting 18 inning games is to avoid the increased risk of injury that occurs when you have to ask pitchers to pitch longer than any team is comfortable with. Before the rule changes teams could rely on position players if the pitching staff got too extended, but that isn’t allowed now in tie games.
Re: free runner on 2nd in extra innings — If they insist on having a runner to avoid marathon games, why not just have the ghost runner start at 1B and not 2B? They’ve made it easier to steal bases, so lean on that and not automatically put a runner in scoring position. That could also make late-inning running replacements (i.e. Billy Hamilton-types) that seem to be one-trick ponies more valuable (if they aren’t good enough with the bat to stay on the field).
Because putting the runner on first increases the chances of a double play even with stolen bases being easier. Which will have the exact opposite effect of what they’re trying to accomplish.
I am old school, i love baseball, “Lets Play 2” nothing wrong with an 18 inning game!!! If your attention span does not allow you to be engaged in the game past 10 innings maybe you are following the wrong sport!!! The Ghost Runner is bush league IMHO
My biggest complaint about the Ghost Runner, a game shouldn’t be decided in extra innings by a ground ball out to the right side of the infield and then a sac fly. A base hit, or at least walks, should factor in the winning run scoring.
I liked the traditional way. IE play extra innings like you play the first nine.
I guess the goal here is to get to an outcome/result quicker than slower? If that’s the goal, maybe just stop the game upon completion of the ninth.
The standings would look funky. IE a value is assigned to a win, a tie and a loss. Ugh.
The problem I had with Extra Innings (I pitched in college, mostly a reliever, which heightened the feeling of what I am about to type) is that:
-someone in either team’s 3-5 batting spots, two or three guys per game, are in a 2-30 slump
-Every pitcher from the 7th inning on sits 98 with a hammer. On top of increased strikeouts, every batter’s best bet is to swing for the downs and try to win it with one swing
-If a catcher gets pulled in the 11th inning because it’s been a long game, well he already can’t hit because defense is more important as a catcher, and that guy’s backup is now in the game, and the only thing that guy can mmmaybe do at the plate is either draw a walk or occasionally run into one when swinging for the downs
After all that, you blink and suddenly it’s the 15th inning, and we as pitchers want to go HOME, with little care about who the winning team is
I also played baseball, guess what i was involved in a lot of extra inning games and never once thought about “I wanna go home” or” i no longer care who is winning” That is a comment from someone who is not a true competitor!!!
jays77,
BizzyDat played in college, something requiring a player to be a “true competitor.” It’s time to get down off your high horse.
Played in college as well, then the game retired me.
Totally agree with your “want to go home” sentiment after a certain inning. Longest we went was 19. The other team’s p gave us the game, pretty sure his coach told him to.
College ball. Me too. What a hoot. 40 plus years have passed. Honestly, don’t recall much actual game action. What I do remember with joy are the goofy antics between teammates in the dugout, during practice and on road trips. Again, what a hoot.
Any thoughts I have about structure of MLB play today is purely from a fan perspective not from long ago on field folly experiences. Cheers!
That’s an interesting observation about pitchers not caring who wins the game. This is something that has kind of bugged me a little bit with some MLB pitchers…they will pitch a really good game, but the team loses let’s say 2-0 or 3-1. So after the game the pitcher is all high & mighty about himself because he pitched a quality start, and if there was any offense he would have won the game. I always found this a bit distasteful though, if your team lost, you should not be gloating about how well you pitched. If you pitched just a little better, maybe your team could have won. Be more perfect. To a fan, it just seems off-putting, with the pitcher seemingly only interested in his own performance.
The ghost runner rule is probably the one new rule I’ve seen the most disdain for among fans. Most polls, whether it be here or on social media platforms that allow users to create polls for people to vote on, typcially see a large amount saying they are not in favor of the rule. At the very least, they should give each team two or three innings to score before putting the rule into affect.
I get that they don’t want 18 inning games, and it does wear players down, but there are so few of those kinds of games. Between 2018 and 2019, only 26 games lasted past the 15th inning. 4 lasted until the 18th or later. That means less than 8% of extra inning games last until the 15th, and only 0.9% lasted until the 18th or later. About 90% of extra inning games ended by the 13th inning.
I still hold the opinion MLB is trying to solve an issue that isn’t there with this one. Limiting the shift, they can say that it creates more hits and more action. I see where they’re coming with that one. Pitch clock? If I’m being honest, you never realized how long some pitchers took and how much downtime there was in-between pitches until they started enforcing it this year. I think that will end up helping the game long term. The extra inning ghost runner? It’s trying to prevent a very specific situation that happens in less than 0.5% of games each season.
Stevie A. coming up with a clutch homerun answer to Tom Kelly! Thank you.
Is Wander Franco done?
And in response to the lad/lady saying you’re wrong about the ghost runner, I on the other hand think that Rob Manfred should be locked in a cage and not let out until he not only agrees to do away with the ghost runner, but also writes a 1000 word handwritten apology letter for ever instituting it in the first place.
I’m going to need my own personal copy of that handwritten apology so he might want to get started… the Zombie Runner is a complete travesty and a mark on the game.
Franco’s situation doesn’t seem as cut and dry as Vazquez’s situation from a few years ago. Vazquez was very clearly knowingly and willingly sleeping with a minor. There are a lot more conflicting reports with this one. However, in the event he knowingly and willingly dated a 14 year old, not only would his pro baseball career be over, but he’d probably face jailtime.
I support due process and innocent until proven guilty more than anyone else alive. Vazquez got his. He pretty much admitted to it when they arrested him so the case was basically open and shut. The one thing I did take issue with however was that he claimed under oath the girl lied about her age and sent him a picture of a fake ID, whereas she (again, under oath) admitted to lying to him about her age (at least at first) but denied ever having a fake ID let alone sending him a picture of it. Obviously there is only one right answer to the question of whether or not there was a fake ID and obviously they both knew the answer to that, yet their stories contradict each other which means one of them committed perjury. If I were the judge I would have paused the trial, ordered a full scale investigation into the fake ID issue and then charged whoever was lying with perjury.
With Franco, we just have to wait until more information comes out.
Yeah, like I said, it’s a lot less cut and dry. Franco apparently asked for ID and she said she was 18. Now apparently the mom is holding Franco hostage saying she’s 14, but there are posts of her driving and with alcohol. Just gotta see where this one goes.
Don’t jump to any conclusions on Franco lest we forget what happened to that punter.
The answer on Mancini is exactly the answer why they traded him last year. He was clogging the roster then and all they would have offerred in FA was a big pay cut, which would have been controversial. The fact that Elias turned him in to McDermott and Seth Johnson (two potential rotation arms) is mind boggling. Then they find OHearn on the scrap heap and he’s better than peak Mancini.
In retrospect, the Os 2022 trade deadline “sell off” will become a GM legend.
I understand that Max Fried is a good pitcher. What I don’t understand is why any agent would even want to bring up Rodon’s mistake of a contract. Its the perfect reason to not give that amount to a volatile pitcher in a long term deal. Maybe they should bring up Strasburg, or Price, or deGrom, or Zimmerman as comparisons, as well. If you want me to sign your client, give me a comparable contract that worked out, at least to this point in the contract.
One thing that is somewhat related is this: The extra runner is there to keep games short. However, most games are not extra inning games, and the pitch clock has been excellent in reducing time. If we assume there are 300 pitches thrown in a game (150 by each side), shaving off just 5 seconds would reduce the time by 1500 seconds = 25 minutes. Having pitched in youth baseball, I would even say 15 seconds in between pitches would work. The only thing would be to add more timeouts. An extra 5 seconds saved would save an extra 25 mins, making it about 2 hours and 10 mins from 3 hours. We were always scheduled to play 7 innings in my league, but we usually just got 5 or 6 so the other teams scheduled after us could take the field. I would much rather have seen more action and fewer timeouts. We had a coach who once called timeouts in between pitches to stall the game. Now, if the point is to just stop wasting time, the Manfred man is not needed. You can just stick to the clock and let fans leave if they don’t care about extras. Those who do will likely stay. Adding an unearned run to a pitcher’s record without an error just messes up stats.
I’m not sure what the batter facing the pitcher has anything to do with slowing down the game since the pitcher can just throw a strike whether or not the batter is ready. So what if a batter isn’t looking at the guy? Let the situation play out.
Safety. Player safety is why the batter needs to be attentive. The League wouldn’t (nor shouldn’t) regress on that issue.
Ghost runner is just another rule to keep the precious, overpaid players from having to put in “unpaid” overtime. Just like load management in the NBA. Why should we play long games? Part of the me-first generation. Baseball was designed to avoid ties, even if it meant playing 10, 13, 17 innings. And, of course, there’s also the modern-day thing with using up your pitching staff by the 9th inning.
I don’t care for the ghost runner, nor do I mind extra-innings. But, the biggest reason for not wanting 18 inning games is to avoid the increased risk of injury that occurs when you have to ask pitchers to pitch longer than any team is comfortable with. Before the rule changes teams could rely on position players if the pitching staff got too extended, but that isn’t allowed now in tie games.
In extra innings place the ball on a little league tee.